Coming up next on passion struck.

You can compartmentalize your physical, your emotional, your intellectual, your relational, your spiritual, they're all linked together. And I think it's important to keep growing in all those areas. Be a lifelong learner, but look past yourself. We're in a world right now that's getting more self consumed. And the joy in life is not getting more wrapped up in yourself. It's actually looking beyond yourself. Yes, we need self care. Yes, take care of yourself. Yes, have good boundaries, get some exercise, get sleep, all those good things. But you really come alive and you learn that serving is life. And when you can help somebody, that's when life is as good as it can be. So wherever you show up, don't show up just to be served, but to serve and to make a difference.

Welcome to passion struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions. On Fridays, we have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEO's, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now let's go out there and become passion struck.

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to episode 456, a passion struck consistently ranked by Apple as the number one alternative health podcast. A heartfelt thank you to each and every one of you who returned the show every week, eager to listen, learn, and discover new ways to live better, be better, and to make a meaningful impact in the world. If you're new to the show, thank you so much for being here. Or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or family member and and we so appreciate it when you do that. We have episode starter packs, which are collections of our fans favorite episodes that we organize in a convenient playlist to give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do.

Here on the show.

Either go to Spotify or passionstruck.com starterpacks to get started. I want to take a moment to honor someone very special to me, my sister, Carolyn Miles. Many of you who are regular listeners have heard me talk about Carolyn's brave battle with pancreatic cancer. Carolyn was not only a tremendous source of inspiration and strength for everyone who knew her, but she also taught us the profound importance of living each day with courage and intention, even in the face of life's toughest challenges. Today, as we dive deep into our discussion, let's carry forward her indomitable spirit and remember the lasting impact she has left on our lives. I am also very excited to announce that passion struck won the gold medal at the nonfiction book Awards and is also on the shortlist for the Eric Hoffer Book Award grand prize. Additionally, this past week we also launched the audiobook version. You can find it on the passion struck website Amazon or wherever you purchase books. In case you missed it, I had two fantastic interviews earlier this week. The first was with my friend, the renowned nutritionist Oz Garcia. In this episode, Oz shares his expert insights on longevity, wellness, and the art of thriving at any age.

Oz also dives deep into how we can optimize our health for a vibrant, energetic future. The second interview was with Homeiro Kabir, a celebrated woman's well being and leadership coach with a rich background in positive psychology and coaching psychology, who joins us to explore the transformative journey from perfectionism to embracing the full spectrum of our inner and outer lives. And if you liked either of those episodes or today's, we would so appreciate you giving it a five star rating and review. That goes such a long way in strengthening the passion star community. And I know we and our guests love to hear your feedback. Today I have the privilege of sitting down with an extraordinary guest whose journey embodies resilience, faith, and the unwavering pursuit of hope. Joining me today is Jesse Bradley, a man whose life story serves as a beacon of inspiration for all who encounter it. From his humble beginnings to his days as a college division one athlete and professional soccer player, Jesse has weathered storms that would have deterred the faint of heart. But instead of allowing adversity to define him, Jesse has emerged stronger, more determined, and more passionate than ever before.

Throughout this episode, we'll have the opportunity to journey with Jesse through the highs and lows of his life, from his childhood to his collegiate aspirations, and from the pinnacle of athletic success to the deaths of a tragic illness in Africa. But beyond the challenges he's faced, Jesse's story is one of a hope that transcends circumstance, defies despair, and empowers individuals to embrace a future filled with promise and possibility. As the author of the power of the second thought and the founder of Hope Habits, Jesse is on a mission to spread hope to every corner of the globe, one person at a time. Through his powerful message and unwavering commitment to uplifting others, Jesse reminds us that hope is not merely a feeling, but a foundation upon which we can build lives of purpose, meaning, and fulfillment. So sit back, relax, and prepare to be inspired as we journey with Jesse Bradley through the triumphs, trials, and transformative moments that have shaped his extraordinary life. Thank you for choosing passion struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now let that journey begin.

I am absolutely thrilled today to have Jesse Bradley join us on passion struck. Welcome, Jesse.

John, it's great to be here. Thank you. Thanks for your podcast, too. I appreciate the episodes and just you honing in on this topic of passion. It's so important in our lives.

Well, thank you for that. We're just past our third year anniversary, so we are so thankful to have the opportunity every single day to inspire and to reach people and to try to help them live better, be better, and create a positive impact in their life and on others. So happy to be doing this and to have you as a guest today.

Excellent. It shows and it's genuine and it's authentic. And I think people pick up on it when your podcast is there to empower, encourage and serve people, and there's so many people gaining so much wisdom. So thanks. Keep up the good work.

Thank you for that. Jesse and I like to give you a chance to get to know our guest. So I was hoping you might be able to take us back to your childhood and tell us a little bit about it. What was it like growing up? Where did you grow up? And maybe just set some foundations for us.

John, passion started for me when I was two years old and I told my parents, I want to be a professional athlete sometimes. You just know early in life. And I grew up on the campus, University of Minnesota, that's the golden Gophers in the Big ten. And we went to all the different sports games. And I'll tell you, in the middle of the frozen tundra in the winter, you know, it's kind of bleak some days, but when you step into that arena and everyone needs to kind of vent and release and they're just going for it, literally. The barn, that was the name of the basketball stadium, it was shaking. And the hockey, you think of some of the legends that came out of East Minnesota, it was caught. You know, passion is a lot more caught than taught. And when I stepped into those settings, I just told my parents this is what I want to do the rest of my life. And my parents were divorced when I was seven. Couldn't hold them together as a kid. It was a feeling that was pretty helpless, and yet, it's not what I wanted. I couldn't stop it.

And there was a lot of sadness. And I believe that passion also comes out of pain. Not only what you enjoy, but the difficult things that you go through. And that event right there, that memory, I'll never forget. I'll still help couples today and think back to what a difference it makes if someone comes alongside a couples when there's conflict and tension to facilitate restoration. So what happened early in my life is connected to what I do now. Having said that, I focused in high school on academics, athletics, and friends. I thought those are three areas where I can apply my abilities. There was success in one sense, success on the outside. But we won state championships. I went to Dartmouth College, Ivy League school, had good grades there, and made a lot of friends. So on the outside, like I say, there's the outside story and the inside story. The outside looks successful on the inside. I was still struggling in different ways that I didn't share with people. But one turn for me is just my spiritual life. That's what I discovered in college. I didn't see it coming, but I come from a family, kind of like Baskin Robbins, 31 flavors.

And I didn't believe God existed. And I was at Dartmouth and in a class, they assigned the Bible, and that was the first time I read the Bible. But that was linked to me eventually becoming a pastor. I did play professional sports, played soccer overseas. Loved the sport. Still very involved. Now. Seattle Sounders faith and family night. I play, my children play. Sports are a big part of my life. And my career ended tragically overseas. And we can get into some of that. But I was playing in Africa. I also played in Scotland. Just love that. Soccer is an international sport, building relationships with people around the world and coming together in unity. Friendships that are formed. Sports just give you a picture about life and the friendships that I made. The relationships continue today. And life's about relationships. It's about love. It's about passion. So that's a quick overview of some of the different times during my life and how they've shaped where I am today.

Well, thank you for sharing that. And as I was growing up and myself thinking about where to go to college, I was recruited by a whole bunch of the Big ten schools. And both my parents went to the University of Michigan, so that obviously would have been my top choice. But I also got to go to Indiana and Wisconsin and some of the other schools never did make it to Minnesota. But love the game that Michigan plays with Minnesota every year to get the cup. Now, I understand, speaking of colleges, that you initially had your dream set on going to Stanford, but you ended up getting rejected. And I was hoping you could tell us about that experience and how maybe it closed one door but opened another and what you learned from it.

That was a key point in my life. I had worked hard with grades, academics, sat, looked to be on track to get into Stanford. I talked to the coach there, and he was very excited to have me join the team. And then the day came in the mail, and at that time, they let you know through a letter in the mail. And when the letter came, I saw it was a very thin letter. You don't want to receive a very thin letter or packet when you apply to a school and think you're going to get in. I opened up that letter and it said, sorry, you are not accepted to Stanford. And that was crushing for me because when you don't expect something and it blindsides you, where do you turn? What do you do? I didn't have a backup plan. I just thought, this is going really well. This is where I'm going. And sometimes in life, it's going one way, and then suddenly it's not going that way anymore. And what are you going to do when that door closes? That can test you to the core. And what is life going to look like?

How do you make the best of the situation? From that, I continue to reach out, talk to different coaches. And the coach at Dartmouth, he was a soccer goalkeeper. He played in Scotland. He was a legend for the scottish national team. And he also had been involved in soccer worldwide. He chose, instead of, you know, coaching one of the top clubs in Europe. He's friends with Alex Ferguson, who's a legend at Manchester United. So Bobby Clark could have been at the very best clubs in the world, but he chose to come to Dartmouth, small town New Hampshire. Why? Because he cared about the development of young men. And in Scotland, a lot of the players, if they didn't make it professionally, they wouldn't have an education. And he really values an education. When I talked to him, it was wonderful. It's like I had a great friend. We would talk for over an hour on the phone, longer than any other coach. Life's about relationships, and we built a friendship. It was humorous at times because his accent is sometimes thick. And when he says goodbye, he says it about 15 times. You say, bye bye.

Great. Bye. Okay, bye now. Bye. Bye. Bye. We would joke about it after we were here. On the team together. How many times a coach say goodbye to you and you recruit? You never know when to hang up the phone. But we joked about a lot of things, and Bobby Clark mentored me. I wouldn't have made it as far as I did without the coach that I had in college. Coaches set a culture that's professional. They set a championship culture. It's both in the locker room, on the field and off the field. Coaches really teach you about life. Soccer is just a platform. Coach would say, ah, it's the we things. It's the we things. And that means it's the very small things. How you do the small things is how you do everything. So if we're gonna win a championship, it starts with the small things, lad. And he would say, it's a great day. It would be snowing and windy and cold, and you'd say, it's a great day for soccer. Just teaching us about mindset and attitude and how we approach things and not complaining. And I could go on and on about life lessons from Bobby Clark.

All that to say, if you're playing a sport or you have children playing a sport, choose the coach carefully, because if you find the right coach, everything else will flow from that. And I just see it as the grace of God. One door closed at Stanford, and it couldn't have gone better at Dartmouth. I think a lot of the blessings in life that we really enjoy that mean the most. We don't see it coming, and you can't even plan it. Like, I couldn't sit down and plan when I was going to meet my wife, but when it happened, it happened, and I just knew it was in Iowa City. And she's one of the greatest blessings of my life. A lot of times it'll be through initial disappointment or an extended waiting time, but then in that key moment, and part of it is how your characters develop through disappointment. Part of it is the clarity that comes through disappointment. I never liked to grieve. I was someone who always just tough get through it, don't cry, don't talk about it. And I had to learn how to identify my feelings and then let some of them out, let some people in, even in prayer, give some burdens to God.

So there was a lot that I needed to learn in life, and especially in my twenties, that didn't come naturally to me. And if it wasn't for disappointment, I don't think I would have made some of those changes. CS Lewis says pain is a megaphone to rouse a deaf world. Pain gets our attention. And ultimately, there can be some really healthy redirection during painful days.

Well, thank you for sharing that. And I have an interesting, unrelated story, except it involves Dartmouth, and that was over the weekend. My fiance and I happened to be out and about, and I played rugby in college after I got hurt playing cross country and track. What a transition from one sport to a completely different world. But we were at this event, and all these female coaches were wearing rugby shirts, like Harvard Rugby, Princeton Rugby, Dartmouth Rugby. And so I walked up to the table, and the two coaches at the head of it were the head coach for Princeton and the assistant coach for Dartmouth, who I guess last year won in the lost national championship to Harvard. But Dartmouth has a fantastic women's rugby program. I learned. But it's so interesting, you and I both played division one sports, and I don't think people who haven't understand how competitive and basically how much is on you when you're in those sports, because I almost think that the university kind of owns you for that period of time. But I did want to ask, how did being a division one athlete prepare you to go into the professional league, and what were some of the challenges of being a professional athlete?

John, I appreciate you sharing about your own journey with sports. And, yes, there's some great rivalries. Dartmouth and Harvard rugby. It's interesting. You got injured and then played rugby. I would think a lot of people get injured and then have to stop playing rugby, but you have a lot of courage. I know you thrived in the naval academy as well. For me, with division one sports, there was a shift, and there's an intentionality, there's a depth of commitment. And I think anytime we want to advance in life, it's both desire and ability. If you don't have the desire, you won't play division one sports. You really have to wake up. You kind of eat, drink and sleep. The sport you're playing and your team becomes your family. It's competitive all year round. Whereas in high school, you know, I played some other sports, there was some variety. In college, it was one sport, and all of us, it was a full on commitment, but we loved it. It was our passion. And there's moments that I'll just never forget, whether it's on the bus or road trip or playing a game. And the bond that happens anytime you're on a team, and it could be at work, could be serving in your community, maybe a project overseas, you're bringing clean water to kids.

Anytime you're on a team where you can make a difference in the world. You can set goals and then you figure out how to bring out the best in each other. And you have different roles and there's teamwork involved and you serve together, you suffer together. There's a bond that just keeps getting deeper and deeper, and that's what we experienced at college, at Dartmouth. And those friends will be friends for the rest of my life. And you probably have moments, John, going through the naval academy where it's like those people are going to be with you for the rest of your life. And it's a special relationship as well. Sports for me taught me so much about life. And I think that the discipline of waking up, lifting weights, starting to eat right, and then the extra training beyond practices, having to, you know, really be diligent with my homework during certain times in my schedule, having that structure, all of that really prepared me. Moving to the next level again in college, the pace of the game was a jolt. And I realized I'm going to need to get quicker, I need to read the game better, I'm going to need to anticipate better, I'm going to need to make quicker, better decisions on the field, and there's the mental game of it as well.

So all of that is being tested. But we need the test to really grow. We need the test to develop. The fruit comes in the valleys, not the mountaintops, and we would win an Ivy League title. And then the next year we get a little complacent and struggle. And then the next year we win the Ivy League title. We make it a division one final eight. This success is great. It's fun. You remember it, you have the rings. But where you win the championships is when no one is looking and it's during the off season. Remember our coach walking past us one summer and he was almost concerned some of us were going to get injured because we were playing so hard in the pickup games that weren't even official practices. And that's the year we went the furthest. So there's a real hunger that develops and again, culture, it's caught. And when a few guys really want it, it starts to rub off. And now when the whole team wants it and they don't care about personal success, we're just in this together. That's exciting. I mean, that's what life's about. When instead of just one person getting the top of the mountain, how can we all do it together?

How can we figure it out? Road trips, you know, hostile environments, injuries. How do we navigate these challenges? Not to mention personal lives. And when you achieve that success together, it's rich. It's rich. And I think all that prepared me. It became clear I wanted to continue to play. I didn't want college to be the end of the story. And because soccer's an international sport, I looked, you know, around the globe and there were many opportunities. Being able to go to Scotland was outstanding. And then going to Africa, a completely different place. So much love, so much warmth and hospitality, generosity, and yet there's famine and drought and AIDS and injustice. And I had never been up close and personal with some of those realities. Literally, guys on our team, guys on the national team, were dying because of AIDS. And it was a tragedy that I realized is much more important in soccer. And I think in Africa. Listen, when you're an athlete, you have to have a certain amount of focus and you have to take your sport seriously. And sometimes you lose perspective on what's even more important than sports. And what's more important could be in my own life or in the world, or the difference I can make.

And I think Africa, there were seeds planted during that time that were going to continue the rest of my life. And I didn't even recognize it then, but what I saw and experienced when I personally went through in Africa, that shaped, and it was like it fuel, and it forged a new purpose and passion in my life. And it was far bigger than soccer.

Yeah. I want to ask you one more question about it, because you were alluded to this when you first started the interview, but I understand when you were playing in Africa, you experienced a tragic illness that must have been incredibly challenging. How did that experience shape your perspective of life and your faith?

Right. Because I was basically prescribed a medication to prevent malaria called larium. And it built up toxic levels of my system. I was taking it weekly as prescribed. And yet what was supposed to protect me began to kill me. And there were so many physical symptoms, I could name ten, but the most serious was with my heart. Tachycardia, racing heartbeat, 160 beats a minute sitting still, not to mention atrial flutter in addition to that. And then heart murmur, skip beats. There was so much pain, John, on the left side of my chest during the day and the night. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't even lie down to go to bed because of the pain. My heart was beating so rapidly. And the drug inhibits the inhibitors, so I couldn't regulate my heartbeat. And then, in addition to that, the psychological side effects included panic attacks and waves of depression. I had never experienced this before. And yet it was all happening within my own body. My body's my livelihood as a professional athlete. And it felt completely out of control. And I flew back to America, paid out of pocket. Here's Stanford. I went to a physician in Stanford, and he was the first doctor who said it could be side effects of the malaria medication.

Now, he didn't think it was that, but he mentioned it. And I'll tell you, I started to pray at that time, and I just had the simple question, what's going on with my body? What is it? And when God communicates, sometimes it's not even an audible voice. Well, it's not an audible voice. It's kind of like in your heart and mind, you start to hear and sense. And I just knew it's the drug that's causing it. So I told all the physicians who insisted that I take the drug for another month as prescribed because malaria can be latent in your body, and if you have malaria, on top of whatever else I had, they thought I would die. I told them, no, I'm not going to take it. We had my blood sent to the center for Disease Control. They sent it back weeks later, confirmed there's toxic levels of the medication in my system. And if I didn't make that decision, I probably wouldn't be here. And I was fighting for my life for a year. John, it took ten years to fully recover. But the things that happened that were so good during that time, I was in survival mode in the moment.

But now I can look back and say, that's when I started to have a gritty gratitude and intentionally find ten things every day and give thanks for those ten things. That's when my prayer life changed. Instead of just an intellectual, quick prayer, I started to pour out my heart to God. That's when my identity shifted, because, John, my identity was in success. Performance. Performance based identity is a cruel trap because I was inflated, deflated. Pride, shame. It was a roller coaster ride. And I realized I can't have my identity in sports if I'm not an athlete anymore. I can't have my identity in school and grades if I'm not a student. I can't have my identity in something. I can lose even my own health. So the love of God is always with me. And that became, I call it grace, an undeserved gift that became the anchor, the place where I would place my identity and a lot of different things. I had to chart my progress, celebrate success in terms of walking. If you have a long term recovery, it feels like, you're never improving. But I would look back six months and say, I can now walk five more minutes without my heart escalating so fast.

I can walk up the hill without a racing heartbeat. And I had to celebrate those milestones, too, building on islands of strength. And it was like a transformation on so many levels for me at the same time. But I discovered a hope that's greater than our challenges. And hope is a confident and joyful trust in someone or something. And hope is available to everyone. I didn't feel like hope was available. I felt hopeless. At the time. It felt like my life's never going to get better. I didn't have a backup career. My parents had moved to California, and I didn't have friends around. I was starting in my parents basement, literally the bonus room in the basement, and they would watch me or listen to me through a little child monitor at night to make sure there's no emergency. I mean, that's how low it felt like everything in my life was. And yet there was hope. And from that hope, I started to take some steps forward. And there's things you can do to cultivate hope in your life. And a key piece for me is my mind, my mindset, my thoughts, the renewing of my mind.

And I couldn't control so many things that were happening in my body, but I could be intentional about my thoughts. And I ended up writing a book. John, I know you're an author, too. You know what it's like putting a book together. But I felt like I had to write this book because our thoughts, they really form the direction of our life. And it's easy to have a first thought that's negative, that's selfish, it's destructive, it's not accurate, and that's like a hope thief. And I had to say no to the hope thieves and then be intentional. Now, I call it the power of the second thought. But I had to learn that new habit. Hope is habitual. When you cultivate habits, hope grows. And that was one of the habits I started to really daily make sure I was doing.

So. Jesse, one of the things that I often talk about on this show is the power of reinvention. And there have been so many times in my career where I have had to navigate unexpected detours and difficulties. One I often talk about was, I was a practice leader at Arthur Andersen. Things were going great. And then out of the blue, we heard were being investigated by the SEC for auditing practices on Enron. They're in Houston. Everyone's telling us everything's going to be fine. In fact, the leadership would do calls with us and tell us this is all a bunch of noise. Nothing's going to happen to the firm. And two weeks later, I lost my entire book of business. About three weeks later was out of a job. And so I understand these unexpected detours extremely well. Your book is called the power of second thought, and you just kind of introduced it. But I wanted to talk a little bit about hope. You and I, as we were preparing for this interview, were sharing some different statistics that we both have seen. And statistics from the Census Bureau, the American Psychological association, the Center for Disease Control, as well as studies that have come out on a global scale, highlight the prevalence of hopelessness, stress, and despair in society.

How do you believe your work with hope habits can address these issues on a larger scale?

We need hope. We're designed to receive hope every day and to give hope every day. And when we do that, we're fully alive. But sometimes we retreat, we get fearful, we get intimidated. We're in a cave, and what are we doing in the cave? And a lot of times you don't hear maybe from your parents or from school. How do you have a life of hope, of an indestructible hope, of a strong hope, an inspiring hope? And that's where I like to say, hope is available. Hope is habitual. You can cultivate habits. And John, I was talking about the power of the second thought. We all have thousands of first thoughts every day, and yet national science foundation says most of those are not helpful. So this is what you can do real practically. Let me give this practical piece. First, recognize your first thoughts. That's think about what you're thinking about. What are the thoughts during the day? Are they true? Are they noble? Are they good? You don't have to harbor, believe, or entertain a negative first thought. You wouldn't welcome a thief in your home and say, here, want my credit card?

Can I make you dinner? Stay for a couple of days? You kick that first thought out and you say, not in my house. So recognize what you're thinking about and then reject what is not good, what is not going to build up your life and build up other people. As you reject that, the third step is replace it with an intentional second thought. Choose something. It could be a sentence for me, I chose a bible verse. And, you know, perfect love drives out fear. I would say that when I'm fearful, there's a lot you can choose from. It could be from a song or a sentence you read in a book somewhere, but have an intentional second thought that you go to, that you replace it with, and that's going to redirect you, recalibrate you, and now you're going in the right direction. When you renew your mind, it's going to change the way you respond to people, the words that you speak. It's going to change your attitude. Everything flows out of our thoughts. That's a habit we can all cultivate during the day. I was a goalkeeper on the field, paid to keep the ball out of the back of the net.

And I was in goalkeeper mode in between my ears, making sure that that first negative thoughts not going to be lodged in the back of my mind, but I'm going to reject it. There's a lot of people who have guilt and shame, and they need to throw away the old tapes, throw them into the bottom of the sea and say, no more fishing. That's what Corey ten boom says. And we need to be intentional about eliminating some of those thoughts that are stealing our peace, stealing our joy. As we do that hope is going to grow. I also like to share that hope is relational. There's nothing greater in life than love and the quality of your life. It's linked to the quality of the relationships. I'm a doer. I like to take the next mountain. I like to have goals. I like to be active. And I realized that even if I can have great grades, win championships, be an outstanding goalkeeper, even if I, in the action oriented areas of my life, have successfully, if my relationships aren't healthy and strong, the quality of your life, it's linked to those friendships. Harvard's done research about the longevity of life and whether you have a close community or not.

Harvard also did research on human flourishing and found that if you're active in your faith, you have more generosity and service and forgiveness and joy. So there's research done. But life's about relationships. And I say with friends, with family, but also during the week where you live, work, learn, or play, it's how you treat people. And for me, life boils down to loving God, loving people. All that builds hope. And hope is not random. It doesn't just come and go in an arbitrary way. But hope is linked to the choices that you make. I encourage you to choose hope. Choose hope because when you live a life of hope, you're going to inspire others, and it's going to multiply, and the culture will be changed. The laws of the land are important in America, but it's changed one heart at a time. And it's love, it's hope, it's relationships. That's where the healing is going to come in our land.

So I appreciate you sharing that, Jesse. And I think a lot of what you just said are things that we like to echo on this podcast, because passion struck is really about the power of intentionality and the intentional behavior changes that we make. And one of the principles that I explore in my own book is this concept of becoming a mission angler. And I introduced it like this. I particularly picked this metaphor because I live here in Tampa Bay, where fishing is some of the best in the United States. And when I go out fishing, and the people who I know who are anglers, they really go about their practice intentionally, from the time that they wake up to go on the boat, to looking at tides, to the wind, to moon phases, to what fish are in season, etcetera. And I use this analogy because so often that discipline and intentionality that we apply to something like fishing or a hobby we have and or an interest, we don't apply to crafting our life in the way that we want it to become. And instead, we end up embracing our life in a very unintentional way.

And I wanted to ask you, you went from a point where you were stuck in your own life to now being an author, a pastor, a public speaker. But this path wasn't exactly linear. I'm sure there were a bunch of hiccups along the way. I was hoping you might be able to share your story and maybe some of the advice that you have on how a person in the audience could be a life crafter in creating this ideal life that they want to have for themselves.

John, I love it that you're bringing up that topic. And a lot of times it just starts with a sense that there's more. There's more available in life. And the hunger starts to grow and you reject the status quo. There's a lot of patterns in this world, and you can just get caught up in those patterns. Some of them are negative and they just. They're stifling. It's time to dream again. I like the question, what's ideal? And if you are making a change in your career or your job, that takes a lot of courage. I like to say the three c's. You need clarity in the direction you're headed. You don't have to know everything, but it's hard to steer a park car. So you have to start moving with some clarity. It's going to take courage. There's going to be obstacles, people that try to talk you out of it, people that throw shade. And then you want to do it with compassion. You want to care for people. It's all about serving. It's all about helping other people. What are your talents? What are your gifts? It's going to be linked to ways that you can improve the lives of others.

There's going to be certain needs that catch your attention. When I saw kids need clean water in Africa, I know what it's like to be a kid in Africa, seeing that firsthand, and then what they go through and how far they have to travel, and the water they have, that's not clean. And we take clean water for granted in America a lot of times. So that's why we have from our church hundreds that run and we make sure that we can provide clean water for kids in Africa. Sometimes it's the need that's the call. And when you start to venture out into a new area, just start serving. Start serving and using your gifts. It could be as a volunteer, and then maybe a part time job turns into a full time job. As you start to serve, you're going to gain experience and the direction will be refined. What you're going to see is certain things you say and do really work. And there's going to be people who tell you and confirm and are grateful. And then you're going to learn about yourself and how you're wired. I say it's one prayerful decision at a time because our maker knows us just like we have appliances in our house and we go to the maker when we have questions.

This is a great journey. Life is a gift. Every day is a gift. Don't take it for granted. And we have so many capabilities now between podcasts like yours, John, and think of also your new book, how many lives. The ripple effect, because you were intentional, you had a passion, and you wanted to empower people, encourage people. So you took a step. It's a step of faith. We're going to risk, we're going to be vulnerable. We're going to fail. That's par for the course. But I believe when passion comes, it's kind of like those old birthday candles where the light comes on and someone blows it out and then the light comes back on. You know those trick candles, then someone blows it out and, and the light comes back on. We have four children, and one of the children we have, we adopted. And there were so many people who tried to talk us out of adoption, say it's a bad idea, it's too big of a risk. Don't do it. It's not for you. You already have three kids. I mean, can't tell you. It's surprising. It might be surprising for you. When you have a vision and a passion who's not supportive, that's okay.

Don't give those people too much power. You're going to find people that share your passion and purpose. Link arms with them, collaborate. You're not going to get there alone. Start finding organizations, companies, businesses, individuals that have the same fire that you do and want to run life short. Make the most of it. And when you find people, as you share your vision and you look in their eyes, when their eyes light up and there's a fire in their eyes, because there's a fire in their soul, that's who you want to team up with. If you share your vision and the other person's eyes kind of glaze over, like, oh, really? And they kind of yawn, that's not going to be your person you're going to run with. So find people. You'll see it in their eyes. When you share your vision, they're going to say, that's what I've been thinking about. That's what I'm excited about. And as you find those people, the fire grows. I like to say embers alone start to fade, but when you bring embers together, there's a bonfire. And as you find people and collaborate, win win partnerships, that's when we've seen the most impact.

It's been through partnerships. And you might not have those relationships right away, but through social media, find those people through LinkedIn, find those people, take some relationship risks. You're not going to experience this by being comfortable. And I think that's one of the biggest idols in our life, is we want to be comfortable, safe. It's not going to happen in that zone. So you're going to need to be vulnerable. Take some relationship risks. There's going to be a lot of rejection, but it'll be worth it. Find out in life what mountains are worth dying on. Not all mountains. There's a lot of unnecessary conflict we don't need. But there are certain causes where it's worth the extra time and energy. It's worth the opposition, overcoming the obstacles, going the extra mile consistently, not just once in a while. And when you find that lane, you come alive. I feel like, John, if I wasn't paid for what I do, I would still do the exact same thing. Because when I wake up in the morning, I'm excited to do this. Like, this is why I was made. It's to come alongside of people and to help them discover their passion, to help them know how loved they are, to help them think through their inner life, their thoughts, their faith, their soul.

And I didn't have anyone that walked me through in that journey. But once I tasted and I could see how good it is, I can't stay quiet. I can't contain it. And it's not for everybody, but I want to give everyone an opportunity to say, your life, it can be abundant. And I share what changed my life. And I like to do it in a way that's just genuine. Not force, no pressure, manipulation. But whether I'm talking about Jesus when I'm talking about the impact soccer had, hope, and how I discovered it, habits, our mindset, our intentional thinking. There's just a lot of things that are combined together for me, because I don't think we can compartmentalize to some degree. We like to, but I don't think you can compartmentalize your physical. You're emotional, you're intellectual, you're relational, you're spiritual. They're all linked together. And I think it's important to keep growing in all those areas. Be a lifelong learner, but look past yourself. I'll just say that, John, we're in a world right now that's getting more self consumed. And the joy in life is not getting more wrapped up in yourself. It's actually looking beyond yourself.

Yes, we need self care. Yes, take care of yourself. Yes. Have good boundaries, get some exercise, get sleep, all those good things. But you really come alive and you learn that serving is life. And when you can help somebody, that's when life is as good as it can be. So wherever you show up, don't show up just to be served, but to serve and to make a difference.

Jesse, there are a couple of things I wanted to highlight there. The first is a lot of people think that you need to have confidence before you act and they get the whole equation wrong. Action leads to building confidence and courage, which leads you to create more action. So I think that's an important thing for people to understand. And you've hit on now the Harvard adult study of aging a couple times, which is what I think you're referring to, where Harvard ended up studying two groups of individuals, some who were privileged, including John F. Kennedy, and another group who were on the other side of the train tracks, who weren't privileged. And what they found was that the amount of money you made, the amount of wealth that your family had, the amount of success that you had, or failure didn't really matter. What mattered were a few things, relationships being the top of that pyramid. And Harvard has done a lot of research on flourishing, but so has University of California, Berkeley, and their greater good for science center. And this is something I wanted to touch on because one of my favorite people there is a guy named Dacre Keltner who's been doing research on awe and self compassion.

And it was interesting to me, as I read his book, that when we think of Awe, we think of awe at the birth of our children, which you and I both have, or maybe winning a national championship or an Ivy League championship or a Premier League championship, and those definitely can bring on your life. But what shocked me is he worked for years with prisoners on death row at Sam Quinton, and he said he saw in them more forms of awe than he would have ever imagined. And where he saw it most was in simple acts of kindness that one human being does to another or that you do in service of other people. And I think it just harks back to what you were just talking about. And I was maybe hoping you could use that to dive down a little bit deeper into it.

Absolutely. I lived in northern California. I know San Quentin. And when you think about our purpose, there's going to be a sense of compulsion, like, I need to do this. There's going to be a sense of joy, and there's going to be a sense that this is much bigger than us. And as you go through it, listen, I'll be vulnerable, John, and say, when I was having my heart problems, I could no longer drive because I couldn't handle any stimulation. I was too sensitive. My system was too sensitive. It took so many years to be able to learn how to drive again and to stay calm. And that's not how I anticipated spending my twenties. So even though I'm talking about different parts of my life that have been so joyful, let me tell you, it stretched me to the core to learn how to drive again, and I had to have the power of the second thought. And I would have things I would say, you know, do not fear. I'm with you. Do not be dismayed. I'm your God. I would be saying these out loud, learning how to drive, and at night as well.

So that was literally driving through northern California, too. And I didn't know, could I drive an hour? Could I drive 2 hours? I'm sharing it because there's going to be moments where we feel like we're not enough. We just can't make it. And it's so important to not quit and give up. And that's where I think we need each other. And then ultimately, we need God as well. We need each other in a prison. We need each other, and we're not meant to be in isolation. It's one of the reasons COVID hit us so hard, because there's so many people in isolation, and we were dying, and kids were literally on the inside feeling so lonely and hopeless. We need each other. And way we connect is through service and a sense of awe. We are designed to have wonder in our lives. When you look up and my wife and I went for a walk this week, we like to take walks regularly. And looking up at the sky, it was a clear night, which doesn't always happen in Seattle and especially during the winter. But just looking at all the stars and the formations and the beauty of the sky and the moon, and that's just the tip.

I mean, the galaxy, the depth. How does this world work? We rotate in an orbit. I mean, there's a sense of wonder. Our human bodies, how they're made. There's a sense, a wonder. And it's good to be an awe and wonder. I like to say there's mystery and clarity. Let's talk about the science, the research, the facts. But we know we can't just go into the lab and prove love, right? We see the effects of love. It's very good. But not everything is just in a tight little box. And you can never. Some people want to control everything and jam all of life in this controlled little box and put it in their back pocket and feel like, you know, they're running the world. The truth is, there's a lot we can't control. Be faithful in what you can control. But then there's a lot we can't control. And as you step into that, I like to draw a big circle on a whiteboard and have people shade in how much they know. If the circle is all the knowledge in the world, how much do you know? And most people just pick up the pen and put one little dot.

And I say, okay, one little dot is how much you know. And the rest of the circle is things you don't know about this world. Okay, then that's kind of humbling at the same time. Enter into that with a sense of awe and wonder. Learn about other people. Listen to them. Listen with the goal of understanding. Listen with your mind, your heart. Don't just think about you want to say, don't be quick to speak. I'm an extrovert, so this is challenging, but be quick to listen and ask more questions. In our culture, it said you have to ask three times, how are you doing? And the first time you ask that, most people don't even respond, how are you doing? It's just, I see you. Hey, how are you doing? What's up? Hey, you want to go catch the game with me? The first one doesn't even go deep. And the second one, well, how are you feeling about that? And then what are your thoughts about that? And as you keep going deeper, someone's going to go deeper with you because they know you want to listen. If you're a good listener, you're going to have great relationships.

It's a lost art, listening well, that's one of the ways you serve people. Our time is so valuable. And when you give your time and attention, you show that you care. If someone's by the side of the road, sure, you can hand them some food, and I encourage you to do that. But when you stop and you hear their name and you listen to them and they share part of their story, now there's something much greater than just food. So start with the physical meet needs, but then move deeper into the relational connection, into using your talents. I like to use the acronym bless, which is begin with prayer, listen to people, eat meals, serve people, and then share. Share your story, share hope, and then listen to them, learn from them that kind of connection. We need a deeper connection in our nation right now. We need people, different ages and generations to connect and learn from each other. Different ethnicities, people of different nations coming together. Why? To build community, to build that unity. And yes, we're going to have differences. There's political differences. This year could be really tense with all of the election stuff, but we can't let some of our differences divide us.

We can still have differences and love each other. We need to grow in that. And I think that can happen anywhere. And absolutely, we have a prison ministry that served for over ten years. You know, I've been with them in prisons here, and it's inspiring what can happen in a prison, because life ultimately is not about your situation. Don't give your situation too much power. It's about what's happening on the inside and what's happening in our relationships. And we've got a lot to learn from prisoners and some of the bombs and the ways that they're serving one another, because that's where the awe and wonder really is.

Well, Jesse, thank you for sharing that. And I'm going to completely switch directions on you. When I was living just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, in a town called Mooresville, I was a member of a Methodist church there. And our pastor, Terry, was one of the best pastors I've ever seen, knowing how to do the role holistically, because he knew that in order to get people to be truly motivated, that it wasn't just about being at church, it was the other hours that you were outside of church that mattered even more. And one of the things that he was constantly doing was research on the population that was around the town. And he would constantly, in small settings, give us statistics that between 93 and 94% of the people in the town didn't go to church. And it's interesting because you shared with me before the show that Barna's research shows that a significant percentage of pastors are considering changing vocations. I think the same thing probably goes with priests. And church attendance is declining. And I wanted to ask this question through this lens. One of my favorite books is the power of myth by Joseph Campbell.

And I'm not sure if you've read it or not, but this was written at this point about 40 years ago, maybe 45 years ago. But in it, he had a pretty profound thinking. I have always thought that if you look at religions and what has happened over time, they have been updated. And he said, we've gone through one of the greatest periods where although we have new religions like Scientology and later day saints and some of these, the major religions, haven't been updated in thousands of years. And he said, when that ends up happening, people don't know how to relate to it as well. And so they start drifting away from it until these become updated and more people can relate to the messages and learn how to apply them in their lives. Do you see any truth to what he was saying about that? And do you think that's one of the causes for so many people drifting away?

Such a great question, John. Deep question. I appreciate you're very thoughtful in all these topics. And I think when it comes to faith, the first thing you mentioned is that trap of compartmentalizing and making about one day, one building, 1 hour. And when you do that, what happens a lot of times is a double life. You're one way at church, and then you're a different person when you work or at home. And instead, the Bible talks about abiding. It's that humble walk with God where you work, learn and play. It's a 24/7 relationship. It's not just religion and rituals. And the relationship side is so key. And so that's an important piece that you mentioned. I love how your pastor was so aware of that and was empowering people, equipping people how to live that out. And then when it comes to Joseph Campbell, what's interesting is how you combine both the ancient and the new. And I see both in the text. There's the ancient in my faith following Jesus. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. And we're reading a book that was written 2000 years ago and the truth is timeless in one sense.

It continues to be relevant today. And yet in that same book there are statements like new wine. Well, what's new? Wine? New wine doesn't fit into old wine skins and old systems. They would burst. New wine. Wine represents joy. There's new songs. God says I'm doing a new thing. And the Bible talks about understanding the times that we're living in. And ultimately heaven is our home, so all things will be new. As you look at the end of the Bible and all things are being made new, new heaven and earth, new home. We're going to see God that'll be new. Face to face. There's always the new that's coming. I think sometimes we get stuck in a Rutger and it's tied to some preferences, it's tied to traditions that might not need to continue anymore. They were wonderful 20 years ago, but we don't actually need them today. And you can get stuck in a rut in a lot of different areas of life. In business you can stop growing and learning and you can just settle in into complacency, stuck in a rut there. Sometimes people get stuck in a rut because they're just going through the motions.

Like they just show up, they do the same thing. Their hearts aren't engaged, they're stuck in a rut. Sometimes there might be an event that worked 20 years ago, but now you got to come up with something different. Today in our setting in Seattle, and Seattle is the second highest de churched in the nation, in the 9th highest unchurched. So like you shared, most people, they're not considering church. Well, some do come to church, but a lot of times the church needs to go where people are. And ultimately the church is not the building, it's the people. We started drive through prayer when the pandemic broke out and now we've been having drive through prayer for years. And what is drive through prayer? We are simply along the road of the busiest street in our city. Thousands of cars are coming by, and if anyone wants prayer, they can pull into the parking lot and we'll pray with them. And what's interesting is that people come in who don't know God, but they're hurting and they want to share and they want prayer, or they're crying, or they're in the middle of a conflict. We had one man that was in a fight with his wife pulled into the parking lot.

He was going to go to the casino to burn off steam, kind of numb some pain. After the prayer, he went back to his wife and reconciled. We have so many different people, from homeless people walking in to people in most expensive cars pulling in. Parents and kids pull in as well. And the stories that happen. Why? Because it's a place where people can be real, and it's a safe place to process life and faith. And there's a sense that we want to lift up our eyes to the hills. Where's our help come from, the maker of heaven and earth? Like, we need God. We need some supernatural help with what we're facing right now personally in our land. And all that to say, there's a phrase of keeping in step with God. Like, don't run ahead and come up with all your own plans and these new things that you're going to realize later. Right? Hindsight's 2020. That wasn't the best idea. But also, don't be caught too far back where you're not moving with some of the fresh work, the fresh wind, and instead you're kind of stuck in traditions. What's sad sometimes is when people elevate certain traditions and they make almost a God out of their tradition, where it's like, no, there's no life in that anymore.

None of us can live in the past. I think. Let me share this story might be helpful, but the two temptations are to live in the past success, or to live in the past failure. And if you live in the past success, you're always going to talk about, oh, those were the glory days. But, you know, nothing good's happening today. Those were the glory days. We can't go back and live in the past. If it was negative, the dirge might continue. Instead of healing, you're going to be stuck and just keep continue, maybe even in guilt and shame. You don't need to be there. There was a temple, and Solomon built a temple. It was incredible. So much investment, so much bling in that temple. And then there was a babylonian invasion. They wiped out the temple. Now the Israelites were in exile and they returned to the land. And as they rebuilt the next temple, Zerubbabel was involved. This is a little over 500 years BC, and they rebuilt this temple. The second temple didn't have all of the gold. It didn't have all of the beautiful, intricate designs. And some people cried, some rejoiced.

But in the second temple, God said, I'm going to show up there and the glory is going to be greater. Why do I say that? We're in a culture right now that loves the outward appearance. How do you look on social media? How are your clothes? There's so much we can do to our appearance. And ultimately, it's not about the outside look. It's about what's happening on the inside. And God does a new work. It was a new temple, a new season, and new stories. I think it's important that we don't get married to the past or try to live in the past, because the people that do are not happy. They get stuck in the miserable at the same time. Hold on. What do we learn from the past? What's good that'll always be true. Truth is always good. Love is always good. Love your neighbor is always good. Don't let go of the majors. Major on the majors. The majors stay pretty consistent. But how that's lived out, how that's played out, that changes. And that's an interesting dynamic in both the ancient and the new. And I'm glad you brought that up.

Faith is about a relationship. But I'll say this, faith is not a blind faith. When I didn't believe, I got out the facts, historical evidence. Like, is the Bible reliable? Is Jesus who he says he was? Is he risen? Is he God? Like, I had to kick the tires. And what I found out is that you put all the evidence on the table and then you make your decision based on that evidence. Kind of like a jury looks over all the evidence and makes the best decision they can make. We're never going to prove it 100%. I couldn't prove God exists 100%. But look at all the evidence, and as you do that, that wonder, that awe, then make that best decision you can make based on the historical evidence. And that was the engagement for me with my mind and my heart, and that was connected to my faith decisions.

Jesse, thank you for sharing that. And there's one last area I wanted to focus on with you. And this is something I've never shared with my audience before, so it's a first for them, and it's a first for you. About 20 years ago, one of my rugby teammates from the naval Academy, Mike ruble, came to me. I was working at Lowe's at the time, and he brought forth this idea of a nonprofit that we could do together to bring clean water to children and families throughout the world. And we actually found a patent at Clemson that we got ownership of to use that would allow us to introduce something called the water stick, which was going to be a device that especially in Africa and other third world countries, if they had a low enough water table, meaning you could get to it in somewhere between three and 10ft, this stick could be put in and had a purification system in it that for basically $50 to $75 a pop, you could give portable water to a whole family, or in some cases a whole village. And unfortunately, we went through a whole bunch of VC's and tried to get funding for it and just couldn't do it.

But I bring this up because it was a passion of mine and a mike's. And I understand you also have a whole focus yourself of trying to bring clean water to every children in Africa. And I was hoping you could talk about that.

I love what you were doing there and the creative solutions that we need. You know, we can't just keep doing the same thing and expect different results. And we have a lot of creativity, and we have enough people that complain. We have enough people that gossip or slander or criticize critical spirit. What we need today is people who find solutions and take risks with innovation. John, there's going to be a lot of ideas, and some of them are going to go further. And you might be surprised by the ones that work and then other ones. Okay, mid course redirection. Let's learn from that and then let's improve it. So I encourage people today who are watching or listening right now, keep thinking creatively, keep collaborating, keep coming up with new solutions. And as we do that, we can provide water. You know, we can provide over the next ten years, we can provide clean water for all the kids in Africa. And how do we do that? It's going to take a number of different leaders. It's going to take people who want to give, it's going to take people who want to go. It's going to take people who are there actually, you know, the new wells and digging those.

It's going to take all the above. So to really make a difference with substantial generational goals, it's one of those we're all hands on deck. Every role is important, every encouragement is important. Kids should have clean water. Kids should have food. There are some things, again, that are out of our control. And then there are some things that are fixable. There are some goals that are achievable. And all the resources we have now, between the networking and social media and email, between videos, between being able to connect overseas planes to travel, the technology, it's incredible what we can accomplish right now. If there's a clear goal, if we work together, there's always going to be some disagreements on the how. And what I've seen is that a lot of people share the same purpose and passionate, and then sometimes conflict breaks out in the how. Well, I think we should do this. Well, I think we should do that. So often it's a both and it's not an either or. And one person will do it one way and that's their style, and someone else will do it a little differently. And how can we bring out the best in each other?

Instead of trying to make everyone perfectly line up, maybe we need ten organizations instead of, you know, just one. How can those ten that have different specialty areas work well together, even though they're gonna take different approaches? So it takes humility and unity is what I'm saying, to accomplish these massive goals. And it takes some persistence, and I love it. You know, my son and I went for, it was a half marathon. I'm not someone who likes to run, but I tore my Achilles tendon and it was a big step to be able to run again and then run with my son. We ran half marathon. All the money went to clean water kids in Africa. We got to do it together. Serve with your family, invite your friends, your family to do something with you and something like clean water, food overseas, or it could be local in your community at a food bank. But take that first step, and as you take that step, more doors are going to open and you're going to look back and say, I'm so glad I took that first step because ten more doors have opened. So I encourage you take that first step today.

Well, Jesse, I think that's a great way to end this portion of the interview, is to take that step, because that's what this whole interview has been about. If someone is interested in learning more about you, where are some of the best places they can go?

I have a website, jessebradley.org, and there's free resources, seven habits you can cultivate for hope. 30 days to strengthen your marriage. There's a lot of free resources there. Check out the video series. And on social media Jesse J. Bradley on all platforms. I'd love to hear your story, love to connect with you, see if there's any ways we can work together.

And don't forget to mention your podcast.

That's right, the bonfire. Check that out. And the new book, the power of the second thought. I hope that will really be practical for you in a daily way. The renewing of your mind. It's worth the intentional effort so that you don't have to just settle for those first thoughts. Second thoughts are better than first thoughts.

Well, Jesse, such an honor to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining us. I know you and I have been trying to get this one done for a long time.

John, I appreciate you keep up the good work. You have a consistency and an excellence. You love research. You love people's stories. And because of that, there's a lot of people who are reading your books and listening to your podcast who are really growing a lot. So thank you for sharing what you did today in some new areas of your life, too. And I know people really trust and respect you. So thanks for your voice and how you inspire people.

I thoroughly enjoyed that interview with Jesse Bradley and I wanted to thank Jesse for joining us on today's show. Links to all things Jesse will be in the show notes@passionstruck.com dot please use our website links to purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. All proceeds go to support the show. Videos are on YouTube at both our main channel at Johnr Miles and our Clips channel at Passionstruck clips. Please go check it out and subscribe and join over a quarter million other subscribers. Advertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place@passionstruck.com. Slash deals please consider supporting those who support the show. If you want daily doses of inspiration, then follow me on all the social platforms at John R. Miles and if you want to energize your courage muscles, then consider joining the passion Struck weekly challenge, which you can do by signing up for our newsletter live intentionally by going to passionstruck.com dot. Are you curious to find out where you stand on the path to becoming passion struck? Then dive into our engaging passion struck quiz. You can find it on passionstruck.com dot. It consists of 20 questions.

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You're about to hear a preview of the Passion Struck podcast interview that I did with the legendary Robin Sharma, where we delve into his latest masterpiece, the wealth money can't buy. Discover how to redefine success and cultivate a life of true abundance using his innovative eight forms of wealth model. Don't miss this transformative conversation with the world renowned author and leadership guru himself.

What you do daily is so much more important than the big things that you'll do annually, so it's really easy to forget that. But I'll repeat it again. Your days are your life in miniature. And as you craft each day, so you craft a life. So just by getting your days right, your days slip into weeks, your weeks slip into months, your month slip into years, your years slip into a lifetime. So consistency is the mother of mastery. What you do every day is really mission critical to living a world class life and a soulful life and a healthy life and a happy life.

Remember that we rise by lifting others. So share the show with those that you love and care about. And if you found today's episode with Jesse Bradley inspirational, then definitely share this episode with people who could use his message. In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show.

So that you can live what you listen.

And until next time, go out there.

And become passion struck.