Lemonada.

You're listening to Pop Culture Debate Club. I'm Amina Toussou. Each week, we bring together two guests to duke it out over a pop culture obsession. I'll be asking them a series of questions, and whoever successfully convinces me wins. Today, we're bringing two music experts head to head to debate the best hip hop film of all time. My first guest is beloved hip hop artist, Fat Tony. We're also joined by Bomani Jones, host of the Sports and Pop Culture podcast, The Right Time. He's got a news series on YouTube about how 1994 was the ultimate year in hip hop. Oh, and also, they're both from one of our greatest cities, Houston, Texas. So let's get into it.

So let's meet our panelists. Joining me today as host of the podcast, The Right Time, Bomani Jones. Bomani, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Also with us is hip hop artist, Fat Tony. His latest album is called, I Will Make a Baby in this Damn Economy. Welcome to the show, Tony.

What'd it do?

So you're from Houston.

I'm from Houston, Texas, and screaming everywhere I go.

Where part?

I'm from Third Ward.

And Bomani, you're from Houston, too. Yes, I am.

Oh, where? I grew up up in by Willowbrook Mall, which is a problem because anybody from off of 288 doesn't think there's any Houston that's north of 288. But that is true.

That is true.

Fantoni, I researched you while we were sitting here. I didn't realize that you were so Houston that you were from Nigeria.

I was going to say that.

I was like, You are.

I was like, Anthony Obe is a Nigerian, and that is after Lagos, Nigeria. It's Houston, Texas, and London, UK. I grew up in Nigeria, so I know. I love.

I I was going to say, we lived in Nigeria for a year. My parents had full brights at a university in the north.

That's amazing. That is cool. Yeah. Honestly, growing up in Houston, far as the Niger stuff goes, it was shocking to go outside the city and outside the state and notice there aren't Niger people everywhere in America. I thought that was just normal. And I was in for a real rude awakening when I came to California.

I'm guessing you know my man, Hell, yeah, I know Tobi.

I know all the Nigerian-Huston people. If you're a Nigerian rapper from Houston, I've talked to you at least twice.

Wow. Well, today's show is about the best hip hop movies. Bamani, what hip hop film are you going with today?

I'm going with Houseparty, which I consider to be a legitimate modern American classic that, for reasons that befuddle me somewhat, is not treated as such. I think it is treated as a bit of a cult classic. It's treated simply as a great hip hop movie, but it actually, I think, runs a lot deeper than people realize and lays the blueprint for what every rapper at the time said they did not want to be, but ultimately did want to be, which is mega multimedia sauce.

Wow. Did you immediately think of Houseparty, or were there other contenders?

I immediately thought of Houseparty.

It was my number one anyway, but also it's very easy to make a real cliché choice when it comes to all of these because it was that run when I was in seventh grade where you get your boys in the hood, your Minister's Society, Jason's Lyric a couple of years later.

He said that whole run of these dower-ass movies where you guaranteed somebody was going to die at the end, right? This one, somebody just got a whooping. I wanted to just highlight that back when you used to get whoopers.

Tony, what hip hop film are you going with today?

I chose CB4, written by Chris Rock and Nelson Jord. It's a movie from 1993. It's a movie that I first discovered, probably on cable. And then later, when I was in high school in the 2000s, I copped the DVD at Target and was obsessed with it.

Did you have any other contenders for today, or was that the top choice no matter what?

That was my top choice no matter what, because I feel like it's not just a movie that has some rappers in it. The entire film is not only talking about these rappers lives, but it talks about the industry. And I feel like the overall thesis of this movie is about how in rap music, there's a fetishization of authenticity or keeping it real or being gangster or being street.

So CB4 to me is interesting, one, because this is not a bad thing, but it's coded on a couple of different levels, where I feel like white people watch it.

They got different things that they're laughing at because it is very much so like Spinal Tap, which I don't think is necessarily in line with the sensibilities of the median viewer of CB4 when it first comes out. So you have these things where not everybody who's watching the movie is laughing necessarily at It's the same thing. See before also has a monstrous cast that at the time, I don't think you necessarily knew all those dudes were monsters. But when you go back and look at who all is in that, you're like, this is a lot of heavy hitters that in this movie. So well chosen.

I love Houseparty. Honestly, Houseparty is probably one of the first movies I ever saw in my entire life. I feel like I saw Houseparty and Class Act the same weekend, and it's one of those movies that defined my childhood and made me want to get into music. And I'm really interested to get into what you said about how rappers now want to be multimedia moguls and crossover in all realms of entertainment, because from what I know, there was a bit of backlash with Kid & Play because they were very clean in their music. It was always aimed to be a crossover thing. They were very popular with just strictly rap audiences, but they also crossed over, too, in a similar way to Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, who are also legends in hip hop, first and foremost to core rap fans, but they were able to spread out to white folks and more. Right.

So, Tony, I'm going to start with you. Can you give me a quick plot summary of CB4 and why you feel so strongly that it is the best film today?

So CB4, like Bomani said, is basically Spinal Tap. It's a mockumentary Black comedy talking about this gangster rap group, and their Trials and Tribulations. The group is called CB4. It stands for Sail Block 4, Prison Reference. Everyone likes that shit for some weird reason. But basically, the movie is about Chris Rock, who's a middle class kid named Alfred. He has two friends, and they've been trying to get on as rappers, trying out different gimmicks. There's a local hustler named Gusto, who's a Nino Brown figure. He ends up getting caught up and going to jail. Chris Rock's character and his Two Friends decide to take on his real-life persona and imitate him and make people think that he was the actual dope Dylan Gusto. And when they do this, they blow up, they get a big record deal. They're all over TV, they're on tours, they're controversial. And the whole film is basically Chris Rock talking to a documentarian named A. White, who is making a documentary about CB4, the Most Dangerous Band in the World, and hijinks ensue.

Wow. Do you remember what the buzz about the movie was when it was out?

So I wasn't conscious of this movie when it dropped in 1993. I think I was a bit too young for it. But from my research, it looks like it was mixed reviews critically, but it profited. It had a $6 million budget. I think it said that the box office ended up taking in $18 million. So it's a success. But I often see this movie as an underrated movie or an often forgotten movie, because many people that I know around my age, I'm in my mid-30s, some of them haven't even seen this movie. They haven't heard of it. It flew by them. And it's crazy because the cast is fucking amazing. From Chris Rock to Alan Payne to Phil Hartman to Chris Elliott, Charlie Murphy.

Stupid movie. Bomani, can you do the same for me? Tell me what Houseparty is about and why you feel so strongly about it.

All right. So Houseparty is about Kid and Play, two of the oldest high school students in the history of high school. It starts there at the cafeteria, and play is having a party at his house because his parents are out of town somewhere down south, and Kid would like to go, except he gets into a scuffle at school with the actual oldest high school students of all time, played by full force. And he gets in trouble because basically, he gets beat up, and he gets in trouble for it, and he gets to the house, and he's trying to get there before they send a letter to his pops. His pop sees the letter, say what happened.

He Can't go to the party, but he sneaks out, goes to the party.

And another situation where hijinks do, in fact, ensue.

But it's important to note there's two girls that are at the party, Sydney and Sherraine, and they're supposed to be the baddest two girls in the school.

But somehow, these two guys actually have chances at them. And they are from different backgrounds. And it's hijinks, but it's also a very interesting look at class and Blackness in America and how these things run together.

Can you tell me a little bit about how this movie was received when it came out? What were the feelings around that?

It came out when I was nine years old, but it's in 1990, where the mere idea of having this movie is crazy, right?

So it's not the first rap movie that's come out.

You've had Beatrice, you've had Breaking, you've had all these movies that have come out. This one felt a little interesting because it's a teenage movie ostensibly, but it's very easy for grown people to get into it.

The themes are rather adult. They just use high school as a bit of a backdrop, just like CB4. It's a small budget that wound up making big dollars.

But it did not take long before this became an institution in the hip hop time capsule of that time.

And in the last 35 years or so since it's come out, it has stood out, I think, as a legitimate and earnest classic.

I know that there was an updated Houseparty movie, and that was not very well received. Do we think that an updated CB4 could work today?

I think that it could, but it would come off corny because I think the media landscape is so different. What made See Before work is it's at a time where the audience's only lens into what an artist was really like was through an interview in the press or watching them on a music video video channel. And I think now it would be hard to really believe that someone could fake like they're from the streets with social media. And everyone pretty much has tabs on what every artist does around the clock. And if anybody is on some fake shit, there's a whole industry around gossiping about rappers and if they're real or not. So nowadays, I think you'd have to entail some of that shit. And honestly, we hear much about academics and all these fools. I don't think it would come off the same. I think this is a movie that's really special for its time, because it's also around the time where the idea of a gangster rapper was relatively new to the mainstream.

I don't think it could work But I think the reason it doesn't work is that if in 1993, we thought you was a frog, we toss you up out the pain. We'll let you live.

There's a rapper named Rick Ross.

We are familiar with Ricky Ross that had a remarkably similar profile to the Rick Ross that we were talking about, and we found out that he was a corrections officer, and then he came out with the first verse on that album after the fact, and it was like, Okay, cool.

We're going to let you live. We have decided that if you played a role well enough, we'll let you do it. We'll let you do it. I think that's the hard part of making that thing work right now, because in that movie, Gusto comes at Albert for taking who he was. Freeway Ricky Ross took Rick Ross to court and lost.

It's all a different game now.

How did he lose, though? How did he lose?

I need to find out the particularities of what he tried to sue for because it seems pretty obvious that he has a case. I don't even know what the case is, but it sure seems like he got one.

Damn shame. I mean, another thing that's interesting about CB 4 versus the Rick Ross thing. Rick Ross is clearly not Freeway Ricky Ross. But in this movie, Alfred, a. K. A. Mc Gusto, is telling people, Yo, I am Gusto. That is true. I am the actual Gusto that you have heard about. That is true. There is no other guy. It is me. I was in cell Block 4. But with Crazy, in this movie, the real Gusto doesn't know about CB4 until he's in prison and sees somebody reading a magazine and then sees the music video on TV. And by this point, it's safe to assume that they've been a group for months now because they have a hit record. They climb to the top of the rap The R&B charts, the RnB charts, the pop charts. They're on the cover of Word Up, Spin magazine, The Source. It blows my mind that this news didn't travel back to the real Gusto faster.

The real Gusto ain't the gangsta he's advertised his beard. If this could go on for so long.

That part, actually.

I know, but it's also those movies where you're like, Oh, if people had cell phones or the internet, the movie is cut in eight minutes. You're like, this whole premise doesn't work anymore because information travels faster and people can talk to each other. Here's what I'm also... I'm wondering from both of you, how we feel about the actual music that is featured and performed in both of these films. On a scale of 1-10 10, how good do you think the music in your film is? One being like, and then 10 is 10 out of 10, great.

Now, do you mean the soundtrack or these songs that the characters are doing?

Both the songs and the soundtrack, because I think it's a little different in both Well, See before, their hit song is Sweat from My Balls, and they come out on stage with some big plastic black balls that they hold.

I think Sweat from My Balls is an incredible song. Another thing I was thinking about CB4, how I got into it was as a kid, I would see it come up on cable, but then I'd get on stuff like Napster or Limewire, and I'd download the CB4 songs because as a juvenile, they're just super silly and hypersexual and outrageous. You know what I mean? And outside of the CB4 character's songs, the actual movie soundtrack is amazing. You got the Far Side, you got Public enemy, you even have cameos from Ice Tea and Ice Cube and Flavor Flav and Eazy E and Shaq, who is easily the best rapping basketball player ever. You got the Butthole Surfers in that motherfucker. You got Halle Berry in it. It is such a good snapshot of what would be the dominant Gen-X culture from alt-shit to hip hop?

Now, the music in Houseparty, overall, we're talking the music in the movie, is a great fit for a house party in 1989, which is exactly what they were going for, right?

Yeah.

But man, the sound of 1989 is very particular to 1989.

It's not the sound that would sweep the world two years later, if you're talking about those days. You get stuff like 8 My Type of height, which is perfect for exactly what they doing. If you and your homeboy wear colorful shirts and got dances, you all practice at home, this music is 100% right there for you. We are both from Houston, and we can tell you, it don't dance like that. You know what I'm saying? These Out Here, grooving around and kicking their feet together. I don't know what the fuck that is. But the soundtrack itself has a couple of interesting moments. One, the public enemy, Play For Play, Can't Do Nothing For You, Man, which goes to the break of dawn, which is LL Cool Jay. It winds up on Mama said, Knock you out when that comes out. But him at 24 years old, coming back against the world and taking everybody out, verse by first, just knocking dudes down left and right. And then one of the best scenes in that whole movie, the Always and Forever scene where everybody... It gives you the high school slow dance. Everybody trying to pull one close and just hope, just hope she won't mind if I put my hand on her booty.

Oh, my God. That scene made me want to grow up and go to high school. That was one of the first scenes, and this whole movie made me be like, damn, I can't wait to become a teenager. It's going to be cracking. It's going to be the best time of my entire life.

It made me feel like my high school was not popping.

I was not open up for that to be what it was. But Martin singing, Always and Forever in Old Girls ear. I remember, by the way, this has always stuck with me. God, I hope no girls is just blowing over my shoulder while I'm dancing with her. Oh, my God, bro. Also, musically in line with this movie, and a very interesting point, my buddy Shannon Penn always makes this point, and he's right. The plot of the movie is basically the Luther Bandra's medley, A Bad Boy Having a Party. It basically goes from beginning to end on that. But when you hear that's what the movie starts with, that baseline off of that, and it goes through. The plot is very much so mapped out by a Sam Cooke's song with Luther doing his own thing at the front part.

That's very dope, actually, bro. What the fuck? I didn't even know about that. I know.

On that note, let's take a quick break. So, Tony, you're a professional rapper. Can you tell me how CB4 resonates with you on a personal level?

All right. So from a musical rapper standpoint, The rappers in the movie are not the characters that I even identify with the most, even though I should. I'm also a rap artist. I also have a middle class background. I totally get it. But the motherfucker I love the most is Charlie Murphy, because his performance in this movie is outstanding. And if he had wrapped his lines, it would have been a classic song. What I also love about this movie is they don't just focus on the artist. They focus on the industry and how you even have the fucking record label that wants the controversial artist who they'll throw under the bus when the controversy gets too hectic, but they want the controversy when the dollars are flowing. You have the white journalist who is fetishizing the Black artist and is curious about them and is hoping that all of his stereotypes about them are going to be true. Chris Elliott's character comes in there hoping that CB4 are as dangerous, ghetto, scary, vicious as he dreams them to be.

What about you, Balmanie? Is there something in House Party that resonates with you on a personal level?

One thing that doesn't happen that much in American life for most people, but really happens, I think a lot more to Black people, is navigating up and down the class strata, particularly in school environments. And so what is so interesting to me about House Party, it seems to be a very clear point about this, is everybody, of those four main characters, they're at particular stations class-wise, right? So play has got the joint where he's got two parents in the house. They're going to travel, but that means they got a big enough house where you got to put the good stuff away and bring the plastic out because other people are going to be there, so forth and so on. Then they got nosy neighbors and all the things that come along with that level of a middle class upbringing. You got a kid who's got a dad. His mother isn't there. I would not say they are poor, but they're definitely looking broke. And that's the whole point of it. That's a difference. There's a difference between those two things. Who's mama works? Absolutely. Who's mama works during the day? Who's people work at night?

All of this stuff with the girls. You got the girl that lives in the projects, and so it's time. The light skin girl whose parents got all the money and everything else, and they have a tuxedo parties, the discussions between the two boys about which one they should holla at. No, you need to holla at the girl whose parents got a house because your dad be all over you. You need some place that you can go. You ain't ready for a project, girl, because... And these are navigations that people make in life all the time.

So when you look at that movie- This is real life, bro.

It's really a movie about class. It's about how you move meeting the people that you meet based on what they think of you based on where you from and what you think about them based on where they're from and based on where you're from.

That's so real. When you're reexamining these pics, because I rewatch both movies this weekend, what in these choices doesn't hold up, you think, in the present, or is there anything that you struggle with?

I think for CB4, the only shit that really falls flat for me is some of the homophobia, which I think is just part of that era. All right, one of my favorite scenes is Alan Payne's character, works at a sex hotline, but he works on the gay male sex hotline, and that itself is supposed to be the joke.

Balmanian, what about your pack?

I mean, as I said before, and I don't know if it sticks with me, but these motherfuckers Because it's old. Old, I tell you. Old.

Them full force dudes in high school, they so old to be in high school. If you wish to allow that to be a problem, it can be a problem. One thing about movies in that era, and I think it's something that is more difficult for us to do now, and I think very difficult, particularly for people who are millennials and Zoomers and watching old stuff, is the willingness to suspend disbelief. The tech technology did not exist to allow these perfect recreations of life as it does now.

You went into it.

It's like going to a plane. You went into it with the understanding this isn't all going to be 100% like this. We're just going to groove with it. We used to play baseball with the Ghost Man. You ain't having no people to play baseball. Ghost Man on first base. We was willing to imagine. You're going to have to do some imagining when you go back and you watch this movie, right? That's going to be a thing that you're going to have to do.

All right. Now that we're warmed up and we know even more about your picks, we're going to move on to our lightning round. I'm looking for really quick answers here. Tony, in CB4, Chris Rock has a phony Jerry Curl, L-I-E-Z-E from NWA. Have you ever rocked a Jerry Curl? And if not, what's your wildest haircut you've ever had?

I was never of the age where a Jerry Curl was an option as a cool hairstyle. The first cool hairstyle I ever heard of was a bald fade, which is the late '90s the mid '90s. You know what I mean? I never knew anyone my age that had a Jerry Curl ever. As soon as I became conscious, the Jerry Curl was out.

Fair enough. Bomani, what's the wildest hairstyle that you've ever had?

When I was eight years old, I was going to get a haircut. I asked my mama what she wanted me to get. She said I could get anything I wanted. I said even a mohawk, and she said yes. As an eight-year-old, that meant that I was then obligated to go get a mohawk, and I went and got the mohawk, and I was so ashamed that I didn't want to go outside. Now, I understand that in this day and age, kids can't understand how ridiculous you looked in the '80s with a mohawk walking around because it became an accepted behavior.

You would have been the coolest kid on the block today if you had a mohawk. Block mohawk?

Yeah. Today, today, today. That day, I was just looking like Mr. T. I learned a valuable lesson that day.

Tony, at one point in CB4, the group performs their song Sweat From My Balls, which is wild because 10 years later, Lil John releases, Get Low. Who do you think nailed testicle humor better, CB4 or Lil John?

Lil John, obviously. From the window to the wall to the sweat drips down my balls, that's such an iconic visual. See before, talking about sweat from my balls, it felt like it's a straight-up joke. Lil John talking about the balls, I felt like, Yo, I actually want sweat from my balls when I leave the club with her. See before, Sweaty Balls, I'm like, I don't really want those Sweaty Balls. Sweaty Balls is a joke.

Balmonie, what do you think about that? I would also like to start by saying that from the window to the walls, I mean, ain't that where the windows are?

Wow.

We're getting deep.

Bomani Jones, Architect. It's like, What are we doing?

Because, hey, maybe I'm the only thing. You all got windows in the middle of the goddamn room.

The window is on the wall.

What? Man, look, you got to realize I went to college in Atlanta. I was gone by the time that song came out, but I remember I came back one summer and they played that shit, Boy, the club was jamming.

That was a moment, boy. That is a classic song for every occasion. The high school dance, the club, the bar mitzvah, the wedding, everybody rocked to that shit.

At the wedding, it's so crazy because people do that. You're just like...

Yeah, because the song is now 21 years old. Look, that whole thing about you can't play this song at your wedding reception because your grandmama going to be there, that's over. Grandma dead. Over, I tell you. Over because your granny is owning her nasty at this point. She had no other choice.

Tony, what's your favorite scene from CB4? Can you describe it for me?

Okay. My favorite scene is when they're in this restaurant. That's an amazing concept. The restaurant is called Big Ass Biscuit, and Alan Payne is sitting with the rest of CB4. Because Alan Payne is also the conscious brother of this crew. You know what I mean? He has his mentor, Baba Ock, traveling everywhere with him. When he goes solo, he makes his hit song, I'm Black, Black, Bligga-D, Black, Black, Black, Black, ever thinking would until the Blacks turned obligatives.

Bowman, what's your favorite scene on House Parties?

Robin Harris showing up at the party to shut that bitch down is way, way, way up there. Absolutely. But all the scenes were full force in the Jeep together, talking about what they doing that night. Because one of the best parts of it is, I forget what my man, a stab. His partners is down with what he's doing, but they also find him to be ridiculous, and they can't understand why he has this level of beef with kids. My man, Bow Leg and Lou, every time he talks, he's going to kick his fucking ass. I think he rags out the gas can because he decided he's going to burn the house down. And Bow Leg and Lou is like, Hey, wait a minute. I thought We were going to show up, kick some fucking ass. Nobody said anything about burning people up. It's just so incredulous that this has now turned to arson.

Your impersonation game is so good. Like, your impersonations are killing it.

Every time he talks, everything he says, you're going to kick this fucking ass, never stops being funny. Never stops.

Oh, man. Amazing. This last question is for both of you because you've both touched on it. I find interesting that both of these movies feature prominent father figures in the protagonist's lives, blue collar dudes, they don't understand their sons. And so I'm just curious if you could talk about the parental representation in your pack? Like, Bomani, you go first.

Yeah. I think the thing that made that interesting and becomes, I think, a very interesting contrast to the time we have now that I find fascinating. I ain't got kids. I don't know who on here got them or listening, but all you all are playing to be cool and friends with your kids, I'll be dressing the same. You all be wearing the same colorful-ass shirts that your kids is out here wearing. People at least pretend to relate to their kids in a way that wasn't the case before. And so what you had was the difference in the gap that, A, I think is necessary for a certain measure of authority. But the dad figure landed differently because they were clearly very different. There's a scene where a kid is talking about being sad since his mom died and his pop tries to come talk to him about it and he wants to put his hand on his head, but he got the high top fade, the erasure head, and he goes to put his hand on his head and he just stops and looks at his hair like, What are we doing? None of my friends act like they don't understand their kids anymore, and I find that to be preposterous.

You not supposed to know what they're about. They're not supposed to be to say, right? And so that's the thing. It was a clear love that was there, but a love that also came with distance and authority.

That gentle parenting today, it's doing what it's doing.

Yeah, Robin hair He's got to be the ultimate dad. He is probably my favorite dad in any teen comedy film ever.

Do you know how old he was in that movie?

How old?

No. Thirty-six.

He's my age. What the fuck? That's crazy. So he's got fucking adults playing some high school kids and a man in his mid-30s playing a dad.

He's playing a middle-aged man. Yeah. That tracks.

I mean, my favorite parental figure in CB4, and she only got one scene, it's the grandmother, it's Chris Rock's granny, when his character gets home after breaking up CB4, and his siblings are reading. His little sister's reading to the family. And then the granny says, Shut up, girl. You just think you're so smart because you can read. It's perfect.

Wow, that is sending me to the moon. Let's take a break. Okay, we have our final round, which will be pretty fast. It's me just going to ask you to state your final case. You get 30-ish uninterrupted seconds to state your case as to why your choice is the most important hip hop film. And talk about the cultural impact that it's had. Pomani, you go first.

All right. I gave you all the things that were great about the movie, right? It laid like kid in play, got to do cartoons and had more movies and everything else. This is the blueprint that you saw a final later for what a rapper could do. But do not forget, for better or worse, it is shooting this movie that Martin Lawrence looks at Tisha Cavana says, If I ever get a TV show, I'm going to cast you as my love interest. This is the beginning of Martin, the TV show.

It starts with House Party. Now, did Martin make the world better? I didn't say that, but it did become something that was very important to people. Booyah.

I love it. What about you, Tony?

Cb4 is the best hip hop movie of all time because it's not just centers the rappers. It parodies the industry. It parodies the audience. It's one of the first movies that I think offered a parody of what later became known as the hood film. Within CB4, they're making fun of New Jack City. They're making fun of juice, they're making fun of this emerging industry, this multimedia hip hop world takeover. And also, you got to give it up for Charlie Murphy, because Charlie Murphy has some of the best dialog I've ever heard in a film ever in this movie. From him saying, I'm three generations deep in gangsta them, to when the girl calls him and says, Hey, do you remember me? And he says, Yeah, how could I forget the bitch that dissed me? To him calling the cop, fake ass Bruce Willis. To him, when he finally hooking up the girl, she said, Yo, let me slip into something a little more comfortable. And he said, Slipping into something a little more comfortable. Bitch, what could be more comfortable than what you already got off?

Oh, my gosh. Y'all, first of all, thank you for giving me so much of your time today. You're both wonderfully entertaining people. So smart, so cool. I also just love the opportunity to revisit both of these films. It was the best part of my weekend, bar none. I came in here today thinking I was going to give Houseparty the win, but I got to go with CB4, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. It is because of all of the industry stuff that you see going on in the background. I was like, I never picked up on that before. I saw it. I was like, It's so prescient. It's so relevant to what we're having now. Hold on. It's not that serious because Bomani- No, you're going to go with CB4 because you were slow to pick up guy. No, I'm going with CB4 because I'm a young person. Hello.

Listen, I mean, the movies are only three years apart when they came out.

I know, but here's the deal. Houseparty, it's like an undeniable movie. The impact is undeniable. There's nothing to be said about that. I was like, it is in the American film canon. It's a cool movie. But I'm sorry, if somebody's going to win, and I rewatch both of them this weekend. And also hearing, I don't know, the dialog is sharper in CB4. It is a more sophisticated movie. It is a more future-forward movie. When Sydney walked in there and he walked past, he looked at her, it's your big nose.

The Running Dick, Gregory.

Bina. Bina is someone that dig Gregor. It's all in a different running gang. George Clinton as the DJ at the party is smashing the cop. I cry two tears in the bucket. Fuck it. Let's take it to the stage.

Listen, we make hard choices here at pop culture debate club. We make hard choices here at pop culture debate club. We make hard I have choices here.

I did not care about winning until I lost.

It's tough. No one can say that. I'm like, Maybe there's a little bit of collusion with my West African brother, but that's just how it falls.

We could talk about that, or we could just let these Nigerian shenanigans play themselves out and leave me on the outside. That's never happened before.

Well, this will be a good time to plug me and Tony's podcast, Nigerian Shenanigans Coming at You. Thank you both for being here.

Thanks to our guests for joining us. If you want more of Bomani Jones and Fat Tony, you can check out Bomani's new series on YouTube about how 1994 was the ultimate year in hip hop. Fat Tony recently celebrated the 10-year anniversary of his album, Smartass Blackboy. Check out the newly remixed and remastered version on Band Camp. There's more pop culture debate club with Lemonada Premium. Subscribe subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Carl Tart and Lamar Woods from the best sports movie episode talking about working at Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC. I'm Amina Tussot. The show is produced by me, Joanna Solitaroff, Christie Pease, Ramel Wood, and Donny Matias. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neil is VP of New Content. Our SVP of Weekly Content SVP of Weekly Content is Steve Nelson. Commissioning Editor for the BBC is Rhianne Roberts. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittleswax and Jessica Cordova-Kramer. Follow pop culture debate club wherever you get your podcasts.