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In this bonus episode of Ransom, we share more of our interview with the ransom collar, Irene Flores. All right, so I'm outside the address where I think Irene Flores lives. So I drove in, looped around, and now I'm parked at a church that's a little way down the street, in part because they ended up giving me this very flashy-looking rental car, and I don't know, I feel weird about that. Yeah, hopefully it's the right place, and hopefully no one pulls a gun out me or something. It looked like it was a little trailer home complex out here in Parolin, Texas. I guess the main thing that scares me is it had these private property signs. But I'm just going to walk over, knock, and what am I going to say? As I walked closer to Florence's trailer home, I realized that the front door faced away from the road and was bent off. I thought for sure that that was a sign she didn't want visitors. But actually, Flores was quite welcoming. The fence I learned was for her dog.

Because of my little dog, we put up that fence.

At first, Flores wasn't sure she wanted to rehash old memories, but she ended up having a lot to say. We started off discussing how she knew Hilton.

I'd known him for years.

And was that like, did you work with him in the security business?

In the security business, he would give me good jobs, right? And he was a friend. He would say, Hey, can you do this? Cook something like enchiladas, whatever, dinner, right? But I considered him a friend.

Do you remember the first time you met Milton Crawford?

I was looking for a job. Oh, God, I can't even remember what year. He worked for security guard services. Or he was like an area supervisor. He had an area he worked. I went and I got a job, and that's how I met him.

It was like, answered a ad in the newspaper or something? No, I just went.

I must have gone maybe through the yellow pages when there were yellow pages. I just went there.

Asked if they were hiring? Yeah.

I got hired.

Was he a good boss?

He was a good boss, yes. Yeah, he would give me some of the top paying in-house security jobs. I think he just went downhill after he got into so much debt.

I've heard some people, but it's people that didn't him that well, describe him as a flashy guy, like he was living the vaguest life out here in Texas.

I think, yeah. I saw that part of his personality.

When you think back about Hilton Crawford, is there any little memory that pops in your mind or a little story?

No, not really. I just knew he was a good man to me and to my family. He gave my sister a job, a bunch of my family's and friends jobs. He'd call me up and say, Hey, I need blah, blah, blah. And I said, Okay, well, let me give a call to some of my friends to see if they need a job. Same day.

You told that story before about the enchilada Is that something where he would just be asking for a favor? Or would it be like he's making- Yeah, he said he was going to have a little dinner party at his home. Was that also a job? Would he pay or was it- No, we just did it.

He did me a lot of favors.

So Yeah. So you felt like it was returning the favor.

Yeah, it was just you give and take.

Do you think he enjoyed being that guy? That was part of his identity, being the guy that could- I think maybe that was part of him, that part of him, because I think we have different parts to our personality.

So you put on one face for people maybe like me, another face for people like you, and so on and so forth.

Then you're saying everyone does that, or that was what she was- I think everybody.

I don't think people want to show everything of themselves. Maybe to a wife, maybe not even to a wife. That's the way I think.

Yeah. I guess I wonder because I never met him. Was he a good guy that ended up going down this dark path? Sometimes I also wonder, was that dark part there the whole time? And he tried to hide it or he tried to suppress it?

Looking back, I think he tried to hide it and didn't allow people to know that side of him.

He was at some point in his life where he was so far in debt, he didn't care about his betraying.

About anything or anybody or me.

Yeah, of He had his own family, he's taken out credit cards in his son's name.

In his son's name, yeah. That's another thing. I didn't know anything of this until afterwards. So after everything happened, that he was in financial dire straight.

Okay.

That's all I know. Well, that's it. Then he called me up one day and he said, Irene, I'll give you $25,000. All you have to do is make this phone call and And he told me about the wife, the mother. She's involved. She wants to get away from her husband, and she needs some finance. And I believed him. I mean, he's never lied to me. He gave me a job, and he helped me get other people jobs. So I trusted him, and I trusted everything that he told me. That's all you have to do. Just make a phone call.

Did he give you a script of what to Okay?

Or how did- Yeah, he told me, Just say this when you make the phone call. Just say that we've got the boy, and if you want to ever see him again, don't call the law enforcement.

What was the time period between when Hilton told you about the plan and then when it happened?

I don't know. Three weeks a month before anything happened.

Then was there a follow-up call once he picked the time he was going to do it or something?

I didn't even know what time. No, he didn't tell me any information. All he told me was or schooled me on what to say.

But he had to tell you what day and what time?

I think he told me that. When he told me, he said maybe in a couple of days.

A couple of days before he called back and said, Okay, plan's happening.

Yeah. Nobody was home. I think I called maybe three times. It was around 11:00. Mr. Everard, he was when I answered the phone.

Do you remember when you spoke to Carl on the phone, what his voice was like? He was angry.

He was angry. He was angry and demanded that he talk to me. I didn't have him yet. I said, he's not here. Hit and down.

But in your head, you're thinking the wife has the son, or the wife is going to get the son, and they're going to run away.

And they're going to reunite him, whatever, and she's going to leave, and there was going to be a happy ending. That both were my thoughts.

One of the things I wonder is, what if Paulette had been the one that answered the phone? What would you have said to her thinking that she was in on it?

I would have said the same thing because maybe the phone was being recorded or something. I really didn't want to implicate her. But let's see if she had answered the phone. But he was the one that answered the phone. I guess when they got home, they couldn't... A McKay was not there, so they wondered.

Is that something that over the years, you've thought about a lot?

Is Oh, it just never gone out of my mind. If I hadn't known that I was being used and that she didn't know anything about it, I would never have gotten involved, ever.

What about when you think back to Hilton and the stuff he was telling you? Was there anything that, in retrospect, you thought, I ignored that at the time, but that seemed a little weird?

No, because I trusted him. But I really didn't give it much thought. I just believed him. I believed him, and I believed what he told me about the lady, that she was involved and that everything was going to be okay. Well, he knew these people. I didn't.

In that first call, I think there was the plan to call again with the details the next morning. Was he going to How was that stuff?

I have no idea. All I know is just what I'm telling you. I have no idea how that was going to work out or anything.

Did you talk to Hilton after making that phone call? Was there some follow-up?

When we were He was interested. We were in this, I guess, in the interview or whatever room. He kept telling him that she doesn't know anything, which I didn't know anything. All I knew was what I I told you. That's all he told me. And that was it.

But there wasn't a conversation where he called to make sure that you had made the call or something like that? No.

I was at work. He called me and told me that the boy was safe in Mississippi. And that was the last time I talked.

After a brief break, Irene Flores tells us about the FBI knocking on her door and what she learned from the whole experience.

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When the FBI showed up, I guess, what were your first thought when they showed up?

To myself, I said, This wasn't supposed to happen. So what the hell did Hilton do? And then in my mind, I'm going, Well, shoot. I'm going to get arrested because I went through this. And that's it. And then I just waited.

And you would have told him then that you had made a call and they were expecting that?

Well, he knew. Yeah. I showed him where I made the phone call from. It was a public phone. I was living in Northwest Houston at the time, so it was out that way somewhere.

Did your case end up going to court?

We went to court. My lawyers worked out a deal and got 25. About 25, my charge were reduced to aggravated kidnapping, which I thank God.

Did you know when you're making that call that you could get charged for kidnapping, or did it feel like a more minor thing?

No, I don't think I gave it much thought. No, I didn't think anything of it. Well, again, it's because I thought they had worked it out together.

Did you feel like the 25 years, did that feel fair to you?

I didn't even question that. I said, I just thank God that I wasn't charged with capital murder. A lot of good things happened to me. During all that waiting to go to trial, I had a friend who was suing the Nordplant.

I don't know what that is, Nordplant?

It's birth control because she got sick after that. So it affected her vision. It affected her health. Anyway, she was the one that got me, the Garen Brothers, to defend me. I didn't have any money. Out of that settlement that she got, she paid them. I think that's why I didn't get the capital murder charge.

After this all happened, you talked to Hilton Crawper somewhere in court or something like that?

No. Okay. No. At that time, after we got sentenced, they were allowing us to communicate, and he kept on apologizing and apologizing and apologizing. I said, Well, hey, I allow myself to be led, so I can't even blame you because I allowed myself to be led.

You weren't angry at him?

He was more angry at me. I mean, what good does it do to stay angry?

How was the experience while you were in prison?

It was all right. I didn't miss with nobody. I just kept myself busy, stayed out of trouble, got close to God, did a lot of Bible studies, helped people out, just do stuff for people that weren't as lucky as me or had a family like me that was supporting me. I didn't get depressed. You do something, you pay for it. That was my mindset.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess if you could go back and talk to yourself.

Hindsight is 2020, okay? Yeah.

What would you say with the hindsight?

Well, you go back and you think and you analyze and you just say, damn, maybe I should have just stopped and maybe thought about it some more.

I mean, do you have a sense of why at that time in your life, you didn't do that?

I think because I'm very family-minded and I want to take care of my children. I said, Well, $25,000, I can use that to send one of my kids to college. That's what I thought. Those were my thoughts.

If I remember right, I think maybe you had had a previous conviction for something already?

Same thing.

What do you mean by not the same thing?

Not the same thing, but again, it was because I wanted to take a shortcut to make some money for my family. A lot of people get away with stuff, and I didn't.

What was the earlier case?

It was a cocaine. I didn't have it, but I was a middle person. So I knew these people, and this person was asking to see if I could help them do a deal, right? And I did. They were talking to the DEA. I'm known to them. They didn't know.

I think a lot of people have wondered, why did Hilton Cropper do this? And I know he was in a lot of debt, but it's still a very extreme thing to do. True.

I don't know. Maybe he owed some big people. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, he was pretty desperate.

Yes. So some people have wondered if it wasn't just the debts to the credit cards, but if it was loan sharks or something with drugs or something.

I don't think anything like that came up. I don't know.

But I guess the security business at that time, was there an undercurrent of drugs and stuff like that? With Hilton? Or just in general, maybe not Hilton, specifically, but working there's security jobs. If that was the thing people would do to make extra money or something like that.

No.

What about with Hilton? Do you ever get that impression? No.

Like I said, I didn't even know he was in financial trouble. I I had no idea.

I still want to get a better sense of him. It sounds like you mainly knew him through work and stuff, but how would you describe him to someone who's never met him before?

An involved person He was, I think, maybe not a community figure, but the little bit I know about him, he was involved with the little kids' baseball, not softball. He was active in that perspective. That's it. He was very nice. He was a nice person. I've known him for freaking years.

After he had told you that one lie, did you have a distrust for the other stuff he said?

Yes. I still have Trust Issues. I'm not going to take your word for it. No.

Just since that incident, it's just been very hard to trust in general.

I didn't trust you.

Well, yeah, that's fair. And I appreciate you talking to me about it. Okay.

I didn't trust you. I said, What the hell? Why do we want to open up that door again?

Yeah, I don't know. I think it's a very strange story. I think when I heard the outlines of this story- It makes you wonder. Yeah. I guess I was going to say it's hard to trust people. Do you imagine other people are like Hilton and Cropper out there, that that was a wake-up call that people will lie right to your face? Yeah.

You know they do.

But that was a...

It was a learning experience. I just have trust issues now. I don't trust very easily. People can tell you anything, and either you choose to believe them or not.

For more information, including pictures, find us on social at the Ransom podcast, or visit our website, ransompodcast. Com. Ransom is researched and written by Ben Kebrick and hosted by me, Art Rascone. Production and sound design by Ben Kebrick, Erin Mason, and Trent Sell, who also did the mixing. Co-created by Austin Miller. For podcast one, executive producer Eli Dvorakin. For workhouse media, executive producer Paul Anderson. And for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Sheryl Worsley. Ransom is produced by KSL Podcasts in Association with Podcast One and Workhouse Media.

Thanks for listening to this bonus episode of Ransom. We'll be back on Wednesday with a full episode. Be sure to follow Ransom on your favorite podcast app to make sure you don't miss it. And while you're there, please leave a rating and review.

Want to take the hassle out of your weekly grocery shop? Get €20 off your first online order over €100 when you shop online at supervalue. Ie. Whether you prefer doorstop delivery or the ease of click and collect at your local store, we've got you covered. Plus, order before noon and we'll deliver the very same day. Shop online today at supervalue. Ie, your local store delivered.

If you're not with YouNo Energy, chances are you're paying more than you need to for your electricity. As Ireland's newest energy provider, we offer Ireland's cheapest electricity rate, saving our customers up to €500 per year. So if you want to pay less for energy, simply pay a visit to younoenergy. Ie and sign up for big savings with smaller bills. With YouNo Energy, you just know. Youno Energy fixed discount rate, EAB, €13.25. For season-season rates, see younoenergy. Ie. Supplier pricing may change.