This is Agent Provocateur with Allan Walsh and Adam Wild.

The reason why we didn't want to say anything was not to hide anything from our great fans. It was to try to protect the kid. We were hoping that at some point he would change his mind. He had already changed his mind. He looked at us at the draft and told us he was built to be a flyer, wanted to be a flyer, and then maybe a few months later told us that he didn't want to be a didn't want to play for the flyer. In our mind at first, we said we have to protect him. Because if he changes his mind again, and it's out there that he doesn't want to play, it's going to be tough for him to put the uniform on. But when we realized that they refuse to talk to us now, it's been months, and he didn't want to be a flyer, didn't want to be in Philadelphia, it was time to make it happen. It goes back, they told us when he came back from the World Championship last May, I believe. Part of Kevin's question, Danny said that Qatar didn't want to play here in Philadelphia and didn't want to play for the Flyers.

What's your reaction to that? Then we don't want you.

Chad, I believe you've met Qatar to go Goche before. Were you surprised that he-I don't know Cutter from a hole in a wall.

I'm not too interested in talking about him. I'd rather talk about Jamie.

He's the guy that's coming here. Okay, so those are just some of the clips, some of the media veils that were made available by the Philadelphia Flyers this week after the Cutter Goche Trade was announced. And it was a big trade and a shocking one, and one that there weren't a lot of rumors about beforehand. Now, we could only play some of the press conference stuff because that's all we have the rights to. But there were several more and pretty infamous quotes at this point, specifically, obviously, Allen, you just heard it. It was the John Torterella. I don't know Cutter Goche from a hole in the wall. Now, this is something that, as an Agent, curious to get your perspective. I know what your thoughts are on this, but I want to flesh it out with you because it feels to me as a fan, two things happened here. The flyers were upset that he didn't want to meet with them. Number two, they made a trade that set their organization back and they had to sell it to the fan base, and they did it at the expense of the player.

So for me, everything begins with a Major League Base player by the name of Kurt Flood. And his name has come up before. He and his actions set into motion what became Unrestricted Free Agency in all of the major sports. It began with a trade of Kurt Flood from the St. Louis Cardinals to the Philadelphia Philly against his wishes. Interestingly enough, he had no interest playing in Philadelphia. The beginning of his process and the beginning of what occurred was a letter that he sent to the Commissioner of Baseball. I have it here. It's from 1969. It begins, Mr. Bowie Kuhn. After 12 years in the Major Leagues, I do not feel that I am a piece of property to be bought and sold irrespective of my wishes. I believe that any system which produces that result violates my basic rights as a citizen and is inconsistent with the laws of the United States and of the several states. It is my desire to play baseball in 1970, and I am capable of playing. I have received a contract offer from the Philadelphia Club, but I believe that I have the right to consider offers from other clubs before making any decisions.

I, therefore, request that you make known to all the Major League clubs my feelings in this matter and advise them of my availability for the 1970 '70 season. The Commissioner of Baseball received the letter and replied the next day, I am not fulfilling your request. You have been traded to Philadelphia, they own your rights. Why am I talking about something that happened in 1969? Well, you asked me about my feelings. Whenever in the three For the years we've been together, you ask me my opinion, you don't expect a short-winded, quick answer to what I am going to give you the news, the weather, and the sports, not just the news. In my opinion, Adam, the draft very much falls under this whole thing. You've got 17, 18-year-old players who get drafted by NHL teams, and based on whether they're in the CHL, whether they're in Europe, whether they're in NCAA, different rules apply. But the overall rule is NHL teams own these players after drafting them. There is an old-school mentality that goes along with that, including many players who've played the game who are now in management. And that is, players are assets. I had one GM tell me one day in a discussion, Alan, he held out his hand and he said, I only got so many marbles to play with, and I'm never going to lose a marble for nothing.

So whether players are assets or marbles or any other euphemism you want to come up with, teams regard players as such. If a player asks for a trade, that's usually, depending on the status of the player, a big deal. But if a player has been drafted, and for whatever reason, and I don't know Cutter Gautier, I don't work with him. I don't know his reasons. I don't pretend to know his reasons. But if any player says to a team that has drafted him, I don't like your organization for whatever reason. I don't like the management. I don't like the coaching staff. I don't like my interaction with the scouts. I don't like the weather in your city, or I just prefer to be somewhere else, comes forward and says that. It's like an avalanche of criticism coming towards that player. How dare you, how dare you who haven't signed a contract yet, never played in the NHL, never accomplished anything, go against the accepted traditions here of being owned, in this case, by the Philadelphia Flyers. We own you, and you don't have the right to come in here now and say you don't want to be part of our organization.

My feeling is that a couple of players in the past have done it. We all I remember Eric Lindros, and he was number one overall. Cutter Goachy was fifth overall. What is so revolutionary about the idea of a We're saying, Yes, you drafted me. I'm not going to court to contest the fact that you did draft me and you do own my NHL rights, but I don't want to sign with I don't want to play with you. You know what? I don't even want to meet with you. I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to receive calls from you. I don't want to have anything to do with you. I just want to be treated somewhere else. And so many people sit back and say, You can't do that. Why? Why can't you do that? Who says, You can't do We have players becoming free agents, and sometimes they are interested in re-upping with their current team, and sometimes, for whatever reason, they're interested in testing the market and seeing what other options are available to them to pursue their profession. Why is it so revolutionary that a 17 or 18-year-old drafted very high can say the same thing?

Well, I want to jump in there because I think I can already read the comments underneath this video. I know it's coming. And they're going to say, Hey, you referenced Lindros. Well, Lindros told Quebec, told the owner, told the President, general manager, that he was not going to play there, and they drafted him anyway. And they did it because they knew that they'd get a King's Ransom, which they ultimately did, which led the Quebec franchise to ultimately win the Cup with Forrestberg and Richie and all the players that were involved in that trade. Cudogoche didn't do that. From all accounts, he sat down and said, when the flyer said, What do you think about us drafting you? And he said, Born to be a Philadelphia flyer. That was in 2022. That was under a previous regime Chuck Fletcher's regime versus Danny Breer's regime and Keith Jones. Now, what do you say to those comments that are inevitably coming?

It's irrelevant. Something happened. Something must It's not going to have happened, I assume, and it's strictly an assumption between the player and the organization where the player changed his mind, and he's allowed to do that. Criticizing the player is fair game. Any player can be criticized for any decision that he makes with his career. From From my perspective, I've never had a problem with people who criticize me or a player for the decisions that we take. I'm just saying I believe more players should stand up after being drafted if they're not happy with the organization that that has drafted them or something that has transpired since being drafted and say, You know what? I have options, too. I don't have to sign a contract with you. Maybe based on some of the interactions that have taken place, I would prefer to go somewhere else. Let me give you some of reasons why that could occur. Let's say you have a defenseman that is very highly drafted. Hypothetically speaking, top 5, 6, 7, 8 overall. The team that drafted him is stacked on D. And it is likely that this player, because of the depth of this very strong organization, is going to play one, two, or three years in the American League before being able to come up and play NHL games.

And let's say there's 20 other teams in the NHL that don't have that depth on defense, and they would be welcoming that player into their NHL lineup within one year, within one year. So the players thinking now, This is my career. I don't want to play in the American Hockey League for three years when I could be playing there and there and there and there and there as a 19-year-old or as a 20-year-old, is the player wrong for thinking of himself in his career in getting going as quickly as possible? I think the player-Especially in a violent sport where you're prone to injury, right? Exactly. Exactly. Where anything can happen at any time. Is the player wrong for making that a decision? I think the player would be totally within his rights to say to the team, With all due respect, you've got some powerhouse D. Your depth is seven, eight, nine defensemen long. And there's not a fit right now between my expectations and the way that I want to start my career and your organization. So I'd like to be moved.

I mean, it's difficult to argue with that logic. I think we've never seen that, and there's a couple of reasons for that. I think the first thing is there's an entrenched hockey co code that no one has written down, that there's just a bunch of assumptions we operate on. There's on-ice code, and then there's off-ice code, and this breaks that. There is a cultural thing in hockey where players don't want to step outside of the norm. They don't want to rock the boat. It's about the crest on the front, not the name on the back. That's been the ethos. Even the way the NHL is marketed, they don't market superstars, they market teams. It's not worked out great for them because the stars are the league, but that's what they've tried to do over the last 30 years. I think when it comes to this, I really wanted to get your comment on, if you can make one, what your thoughts on the flyers end of this was in terms of how they coordinated their PR efforts. And make no mistake, it was coordinated. You heard from the President, Comcast, you heard from Keith Jones, you heard from Danny Brear, you heard from John Torterelle, all within about an hour of each other.

And this was... We knew Flyers reporters were going to have questions, but I haven't seen all four members of any staff come out and speak so much in such a short period of time for a player that's never even put on the jersey. Do you have any comment on that, Alan?

I'm not going to criticize the Flyers. I know some people thought they came on pretty strong against a kid. Clearly, they were angry. They They were angry about being put into that situation. It very much came across a little bit like a spurned girlfriend or something in that regard. But they're entitled to react any way they want. It's fair game. This is the world we live in. I can tell you this. Some people might recall the Jonathan Drew as situation that I was directly involved in in Tampa. He was drafted third overall, came into training camp, had a really good camp, and they came to him at the end of camp and they said, You're great. You've had a great camp, but we are so stacked here right now. We don't think you're going to play enough. For your development, we're sending you back to Junior. So he goes back to Junior, and he once again totally rips up the Quebec League. He plays and puts up incredible numbers and comes into camp the next year and makes the team. But he is in and out of the lineup. He's playing six, seven minutes a game.

He's not on the power play, and he's battling with the coaching staff, and he's growing more and more frustrated. He plays up the lineup and then he's out of the lineup, and he plays down the lineup. It was not a good fit. I don't think Tampa handled the situation well at the time, and I think it's fair game to criticize the player. But here we were, and we got to a inflection point, and Jonathan Drouin decided that he was going to ask for a trade. When a trade did not happen, over four or five weeks, said, I'm done. And he left the club and he went back home. No player has ever done that before mid-season, publicly say, I want to trade. I am at the end of the road with this organization, and I am going home until there effectively is a trade. He was home for six weeks. He ultimately decided to come back after the trade deadline, passed with no trade. There were a couple of situations where a trade had actually been agreed to, I can't say where, before the deadline. It was a done deal, and the player that he was being treated for got hurt the day before the trade was going to be announced.

It's amazing how futures and destinies all get rearrange based on a random injury at an inopportune time. But he ultimately got traded to Montreal after the next season. Here he is now in Colorado, seven years later, playing on the first line. He played a few games ago, 20 Eight minutes on the first line. The most he's ever played in his career in a game. I don't know many players who get an opportunity to play 28 minutes in regulation, but here we are. So go ahead.

No, I'm looking at his stats in junior. You talk about that last year in junior. When they sent him back, in 46 games in the queue, he had 108 points.

Yeah.

79 assists. What's crazier still is in the playoffs, 16 games, 41 points. He had 13 goals in 16 games. This is Wow, you forget how dominant that Mooseheads team was and how dominant he was, along with Nathan McKinnon and all the other great players that they had there. Alan, we've never really talked about this directly, but that must have It must have been scary for him. That must have been a tough, scary decision just because it's, and I remember the story at the time, it so broke the mold much in the way the Cutter Goachy situation has. So broke the mold of anything we'd ever seen. I wonder, and I know that there's only so much that can be said here, were there Sleepless Nights, do you think, over that decision?

Oh, yeah, for sure. The media picked up a narrative that Steve Iserman and I were at war with each other and really went with that. Steve is a good friend, a close friend. He's been a guest on this podcast. We had a strong relationship before. We have a strong relationship now. It was strictly business. Steve had an obligation to do what's best for the organization, which I respected. And he knew that I had an obligation to fight for my player, which I was going to do to the best of my ability with no apologies or excuses to anybody. I'll tell you one story about all that. Jonathan came back and Steve Stamkos got injured. Jonathan ultimately is in the lineup in Tampa, goes into the playoffs. The first round is against the New York Islanders. Jonathan had a great first round. He was scoring. He played unreal. Again, the media narrative was still Walsh and Iserman are at war with each other. The game where Tampa clinched the series against the Islanders. It was in Tampa, and I was in Tampa at that game. All of the media is lingering outside of the dressing room, and I'm maybe 100, 150 feet back from the Tampa Dressing Room after the game.

Steve comes out of to the Tampa Dressing Room, and he looks over and he sees me. He comes over to me, and all of the media stopped their discussions and turned and watched us. Steve comes over to me, and we gave each other a big bear hug, and he whispers in my ear, Should we tell all these guys that we planned it like this all along? Based on the interview we had, that's the only interaction I've had with Steve.

It seems like he's got a rascal sense of humor, like a little bit of a... He seems like a fun guy.

Yeah. We laughed and chatted a bit, and he left. Three or four of the NHL Media insiders who are all watching watching us with their jaws agape walk over and they're like, Was that really? Did I really see what I thought I saw? I was like, I was telling you guys all along, there's nothing personal in this. It's two people representing their constituencies to the best of their abilities. But from a personal standpoint, the friendship was always there before, it was there during, and it'll be thereafter, and it was.

I love that. Alan, you talked about when we kicked this segment off, you talked about why can't a player change their mind? Because everybody was like, Well, Lindros, this is what the Flyers fans are saying. And it's funny that this all happened in Philadelphia. Kurt Flood, Eric Lindros, now Kutner Goche. So crazy. This is all in the same town. But Flyers fans have said, listen, Lindros told Quebec that he didn't want to be there. He was traded here. To that response, you said, well, What's wrong with people changing their mind? Even if they think it's the right fit for them at the time, sometimes that can change. When a player isn't happy, but they aren't honest about it, they aren't upfront about it, and I'm sure you have seen this, what can be the long term effects for the player? What can be the long term effects for the team? If they don't stand up and say, You know what? This isn't a fit for me. This isn't right. Something doesn't feel right here. I want to be traded. What can happen?

From my perspective, I have no problems, and I have done it many times in the past where I have called the GM and I have said, We have an issue here. My client isn't happy. We're going to figure this out. Either the issues which are making him unhappy, which I'm happy to discuss with you, I'm happy to come in, sit down, have a cup of coffee, and meet with you, and go over it all, or not. Either we work out the differences or we all move on. There's lots of situations that nobody's ever heard about where some very high-profile players in the league in the course of the last 10, 15 years have said to their clubs, I'm not happy here and I'd like to move on. Sometimes players have been traded, and that's the resolution. Many times, the sources of the unhappiness, and it goes both ways. There could be teams that are unhappy with the player, and they approach me and say, We are very unhappy with how this player is playing or how this player is interacting, or It could be a number of different things, and we want to get things back on track or move on.

This is not a one-way street. But if a team can draft a player and claim his rights, why can't the player then also say, That's great that you drafted me, and you're probably not going to lose me for nothing. You're probably going to get good value for me. But I don't want to be part of your organization.

I think it's just because we rarely see it, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the logic of it. I think that's what it is, is that if, for instance, with the Jonathan Drew situation in Tampa, if we had seen other rookie players or young players doing the same thing immediately after, and it had become somewhat of a trend where players reclaimed their power, I think we wouldn't be having the same conversation about Cutter Goche.

No, but with Jonathan, many people around, he's destroying his career. This is the end. He'll never play. Nobody will want him. People forget that within 12 months of that whole thing happening, He signed a $33 million deal for six years with the Montreal Canadians. And don't anybody immediately react, Oh, that was Montreal and Marc Baudgevin and this and that and the trade. I don't want to hear that, there were six to eight other teams lined up, willing to sign Jonathan at that time to that deal if they had made that trade. At the time that Jonathan was traded to Montreal, there was at least one other team that day sitting by the phone waiting to hear whether it was going to be them or Montreal, and they were prepared to pay more. Wow. Yeah. It was not all the people saying, This is the end. This is the end of his career. They didn't know what they were talking about.

If you have a message to... I know there's nobody specifically in mind here, but if you have a message to players who might have been drafted, aren't maybe thrilled about the situation that they're in, what would you send out into the Ether?

I personally don't think that this situation is going to open the floodgates, and we're going to have 15, 20 players within the next couple of weeks demand trades from the teams that drafted them. I think it's going to remain an extremely rare occurrence because many agents, most agents, and most players still, and parents, feel like you can't say to the team that drafted you that you don't want to be part of their organization. You just can't do Do that. People need to understand, I'm not out there actively advocating to players, Do it, do it, Do it. Tell them you don't want to report. Tell them you won't talk to them. I would never do that. All I'm saying is that players do have options.

Yes. It's funny. There seems to be players in different sports that have figured this out earlier. I don't know if you've heard this story. I'm sure you have Magic Johnson sitting down with the LA Lakers for the first time in the late '70s. This guy from Lansing, Michigan, he flies to Los Angeles with his dad. They offer him $400,000 a year, which is a fortune at the end of the '70s. That's a lot of money. It would have made him one of the higher paid players in the league. I think Kareem at that time was making 600 or 650, Kareem Abdul Jafar. And Magic says, No, I'd like to make 600. He's like 18. And his dad looks at him across the table and is like, Are you kidding me? And they go back to the hotel room afterwards because they don't agree on a deal because he's like, I'll just go back to school. And his dad said, Listen, this is more money than I've made in my entire life. His dad was a garbage man and worked multiple shifts, would do 12 hours and then do another six hours in another district to make more money to support his family.

He's like, There's more money than I've ever seen in my life, $400,000. Don't you be ungrateful? And Magic came back and said, Listen, I'm a prime quality asset for these guys. I deserve to make this money. And the next day, the Lakers called and said, We'll pay you. We'll pay you 600 grand. It's an interesting story of a player who was not afraid, and Magic was never afraid, to be his own man and to be that at a very young age. I just don't think we've seen that same culture proliferate in hockey. I think this is why this stands out. Now, Alan, there's a few other things.

Ii would just add one more thing, Adam, before we move on. Please. Okay. Magic, that was 1979. Yes. A few years later, a player by the name of Mario Lemu was drafted number one overall in the NHL draft, held in Montreal, and I believe that year was 1984. Yeah. So the Pittsburgh Penguins held the number one overall pick, and they announced about two weeks before the draft, not that anybody had any other thoughts in mind, that Mario was going to be the number one overall pick. It's over, and really, it wasn't close. Mario was the best player available Well, hands down, everyone knew Pittsburgh would take him, but they said it publicly. Mario's agent at the time then approached the Pittsburgh Paying Wins and said, Since you've already announced that you're taking Mario number one overall, we would like to get a contract done now. And they started negotiating. It became readily apparent that Mario and his agent and his family were in a completely… It's not like it was a difference of opinion. They were in completely different universes when it came to what they were valuing that first contract at dollars, structure, and term.

Completely different universes. It started to get rancereous. It got to the point where a few days before the NHL draft in Montreal, Mario and his agent informed the Pittsburgh Penguins that if we don't have I have a contract done. By the time you draft me, I am not going to the stage. I am not putting a Penguin's jersey and cap on. I'm not posing for any photos. I will have nothing to do with you until we get a contract signed. And the negotiating continued, and they remained in different universes. Mario was drafted, number one overall. There's video of it on YouTube. Mario stood up after being drafted. One of the Penguin scouts had ran over to the seat and was begging Mario to please come down and put the jersey on. Mario waved to the crowd and sat back down. There was all All the microphones in their faces. How do you feel about being drafted by Pittsburgh? Are you ever going to sign with Pittsburgh? Why won't you put the jersey on? They shushed everybody away. Go away. We're not talking. And that was the end of that. Ultimately, a deal got done on most of Mario's terms.

Big surprise. Shocking. Shocking. But that was a big deal at the time. It had never been done before, where in the '80s, the number one overall pick, future franchise player, future Hall of Famer, everything that Mario is and was, future owner of the Pittsburgh Penguins, refused, at the time he was drafted, to put the jersey on, put the on, shake anybody's hands with the organization, pose for photos. It was, I'm sitting down and I'm not talking to anybody.

Did he get his number?

He got it.

Yeah, no kidding. Of course, he did. While you're listening to that, because that is a very... It's an ice cold. Mario's a pretty smart businessman, and it seems like he always had that ice cold way to handle it. I'm looking at the Pittsburgh Penguins, and you look the league finish that they were in. This is back when the league had... In '67, '68, they had 12 teams. Then you could fast forward to '74, '75, where I believe there was 16 to 18 teams. Then you get up to the early '80s where there's 21 teams. It was a bit off kilter for a bit. The Pittsburgh Penguins finished one time in sixth. Every other year, including the year Mario was drafted and the many years after before they actually qualified for the playoffs, the Pittsburgh Penguins Puits did not finish above eighth place in 99% of those seasons. I don't have time to count them all right now. Pittsburgh Puits were not a great team. He had the opportunity to get in there and put it to the wall. Now, Alan, in that day and age, what did a star NHLer make? Just so people can put it into context.

If you're looking for a number and you're an agent in the '80s, what number are you looking In the '80s, we're talking before the Gretsky trade.

Dave Taylor and Wayne Gretsky were two of the highest paid players in the NHL. And They were both making well under a million dollars.

Well under?

Well under a million dollars a year.

And you compare and contrast that with the NBA where you had guys regularly, you had coaches making a million dollars a year in the NBA at that point, at least the Lakers coach was. I want to bring this up because this is an amazing story. The picture of Alexander Ovechkin with his hands up in the air screaming and looking at Max P scoring after two Achilles injuries, which one Achilles injury is enough to end most careers. I wanted to know, as somebody who's known Max as long as you have, Alan, how did that feel for you?

One of the greatest sites in the history of the world. It is so good to see him back and to see him thriving and to see him scoring goals from his office the way he used to as a six-time, 30-plus goal scorer. It's been a long, long road with setbacks and an incredible amount of adversity. Max and his crew of an amazing supportive wife and five kids. Five kids. The family is just an incredible family. They're incredible people. What he's gone through, he's been to hell and back. To see him now, to see that photo, to see him score that goal, maybe some people saw the emotion in his voice when he spoke in the dressing room after getting his first point, talking about how tough it's been. He spent months laying in bed where he couldn't walk. Months where he didn't know what his quality of life would be. To see him now back and thriving, there are really no words to describe how I feel every time I see him on the ice.

Did you call him that night?

Oh, yeah. We talked right after the game.

How was he doing?

Yeah, he's doing great. He's feeling amazing. And he made a comment to me like, I got my life back. And that's really what it's all about. Yeah.

That's awesome. I I know you were also in Gothenburg for the World Juniors, and this is something you do every year. How was it this year? It seemed like an extraordinarily competitive... Canadians didn't love it because of Canada being knocked out early. But that's what makes it interesting is when one of the powers of the sport doesn't get past the quarter finals against Czechia, who went on to win the Bronze medal. I know you got a couple of clients there. What was that like for you being there? Was it in In this particular year, what stood out to you?

I love this tournament. World Juniors every year is one of my favorite tournaments of the year. The Czechia team, they're There's some people involved in the team on the coaching side that I represented when they played in the NHL, and to get to see them again, and to hang out in different cities and meet for a beer or meet for dinner is a great thing. To see many of the players' families are there. There's a festive mood because you're in between Christmas and New Year's as real important holidays for a lot of people, and you're in amazing locations. I mean, Gothenburg is an incredible city, and I've always loved being in Sweden. I've been there many, many times. So overall, from the people you see, watching some great hockey, watching clients and supporting them and being with them and their families, and seeing a bunch of former clients at the same time. I was there for nine days, and it was a great nine days.

Awesome. One of the One of the things that I loved about this was you standing with your clients and their Bronze medals. When you see a young player win anything at a tournament like that, because Most of them go home with nothing and just the experience. How does that feel for you as an agent? I'm sure it's similar to the max patch ready thing where you go, This is spectacular. Is there anything that you tell them afterwards that you go, Hey, this is what it can be like in the future, too, if you keep at this? Or how do you even handle a conversation after a win like that?

Well, you just celebrate it with them. You just celebrate it with them. I've learned over the years that there are many occasions where you don't have to say anything. There are no great pearls of wisdom or advice when somebody is in the throes of celebrating a medal. Sometimes it's great to just sit back and watch them enjoying it and let them enjoy it and not talk about anything. One thing that I've always done is when players are drafted, especially when they're drafted really high. I've represented number one overall pick many players drafted in the top five is when they ultimately come back to the seats where we were sitting before they were drafted, I always remind them that all getting drafted Drafted does is put you on the starting line of the race. You haven't made the NHL, you haven't accomplished anything, you're not there, and don't think you're there. I bring them, I make a point of trying to bring them back to Earth. And anyone who might have the attitude or the opinion, Well, I just got drafted fifth overall or eighth overall. I've made it. You You haven't made anything. I want them to hear that on the day that they're drafted.

I've been called at times a killjoy, and that's okay. But when somebody wins a medal at the World Juniors or when they win a cup, I've always taken the attitude of, You know what, Allan? Shut up and just enjoy the moment. Enjoy the moment with your clients who are also like family to you. Just enjoy the moment.

Adam Urichek, brother of David Urechek, also a top prospect, also a client of yours, has an injury and will be out the remainder of the year. I think people always want to know, first off, with an injury like this, it is a knee injury. Is that something as a young man that players fred about, and what do you talk to them about?

Well, we're just focused now on the surgery. Yes, he's going to be out for the rest of this year, and the rehab and getting him back to 100% within the time frame the doctors have given us, which is anywhere from 6-7 months. That's the focus. We've talked to many NHL teams. Several of them have said there really isn't going to be any change to his ultimate draft position. He's thought of just as highly before the injury as he will be after the surgery. There will be a vetting process where teams are going to want to see the medicals, and of course, we're going to cooperate and work with them to get them all of that. Teams might want to do some of their own medical testing, have a doctor look at the player before the draft. And I've always been extremely transparent with teams about those kinds of issues. You don't want to ever let anyone feel that there's something to hide because there isn't. And assuming that it's a fairly routine surgery nowadays and the medical expertise is at a very high level with regard to knees and ACLs, there really isn't much He's not concerned about the viability of his career in any way.

And expectation is that wherever he was going to get drafted before, he'll probably get drafted around the same range again. Many teams have said they see him still as a top 10 pick in the draft. And really, teams are drafting not for what the player is going to do next year. They're drafting players for where they see them two, three, four years into the future. And that future for Adam hasn't changed at all.

That's awesome to hear. I think it's interesting. It's not that... Well, maybe it's not that interesting. But where they've come in knee technology and the ability to rehab a knee and get it back to functioning basically the way it was before, it's been enormous. I think about guys like you mentioned earlier, Steve Iserman. His knees eventually gave out. If he had access to the surgeries we have today, he probably could have played a little longer. Bobby Orr could have probably had a 15 to 20 year career had we known what we know now. But it's just that's That's the connection.

Did he have 11 knee surgeries?

Yeah. It probably would have been one or two, and it would have been arthroscopic, and they would have repaired it, and he would have rehabbed it and been fine. That's great to hear about Mr. Yurichek. Now, a couple of things that are really exciting. Nathan Walker, former guest of the show, signed an extension in last week and a half, if I'm not mistaken. How much can you say about it? He must be pumped.

Oh, yeah. He I love St. Louis. They've been great to him. After spending the better part of two years in the NHL, he went down to the American League this year and became one of the top scores in the American League. He came back up. He's now in St. Louis. He's just a phenomenal individual. He's a great family man. He's got an awesome wife and kids. I think that he's the player and person where he creates a positive culture an identity for the team, and he plays the game the right way. When you play with somebody who shows up at the rink every day with a big smile on his face and is fun to be around and fun to practice and fun to be on the road with, that's somebody that has values that organizations now are placing more and more emphasis on. Culture is so important. And building the right culture. And to do that, you need to have the right personalities, the right character in your room, around your guys, younger guys, especially. And when you find people like Nathan Walker, you don't let him go.

Now, I think it's funny, and I don't know if you considered this. I doubt that the podcast came up in your thinking when you went through the negotiations. But I do think it's funny that the player, the agent, and the general manager/president were all... Well, A, one of them is the host of this podcast, but the other two guys have been on this show. I just think it's funny that all members of that negotiation have made an appearance on Agent Provocateur. That's got to be a first.

Well, Adam, we do this long enough, and it's going to be very common.

Most of the NHL. I just think that's neat, right? That's cool. And then lastly here, Alan, Hockey News top 100 most powerful people. You are on the list again, I believe at Super Mario's number 66 for the 13th year in a row. It's an honor to be on a list like that because it's the top 100 most powerful people in the game. For you, what do you take away from that? What do you think about that? Thirteen years.

I think I'm getting old.

Is that how you feel?

Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm getting old.

It's a flash, doesn't it?

It certainly does. It's an honor. Growing up, the Hockey News for me was the Bible of Hockey. I waited with baited breath every week to get my hockey news in the mail. Remember, it was the day when it was in newsprint.

That's how I got it, too.

Yeah. I was subscribing from the time... Well, my dad got me a subscription when I was really young, and I always read it, and and read it cover to cover. Before the internet, when you got to the back of the hockey news, it had all of the box scores and transactions for the week. That's really other than the newspaper, which had box scores, where everything was laid out for you for what happened in the past week because there was no... Things happened, you didn't know about it until you read in the Hockey News.

Yeah. If the sports highlight show for me didn't have a particular event or I didn't read about it in the newspaper, I didn't see it. Unless it was the least. It's so funny to think that now because there's people who regularly watch two or three hockey games a night. That just wasn't an option.

Right. It is an honor given that I revered the hockey news for so many years to be on their list. So that's cool. But at the end of the day, while it is an honor, I'm really humbled by it It's 13 years in a row. Like I said, just makes me feel old.

Last question before we wrap up the show. That Mario Lemu clip something in my mind because I can remember the Mario Lemu clip. Mario had great hair in the '80s. You had great hair in the '80s. So did I. I'm just going to say, and I want to get a picture of this at some point. Who, in your estimation, had a better curly mullet in the '80s? You or Mario Lemu?

Because your hair was good. I had good hair. I had good hair. I didn't really have a mullet.

Okay. Mario was like, Yeah, I didn't really have a mullet.

My hair was everywhere. My hair was out of control. I'd give Mario the nod there.

Okay. I think you're being kind, but just imagining Alan with everybody else in the audience would have had big hair, too, at a Bruce Springsteen concert somewhere in 1983 or 1984. But Alan, thank you so much for the show today. Obviously, really, really insightful. And what do you got next? Because obviously, you're just back from Gothenburg. What's the next stop for you? What's your plan over the next couple of weeks?

Got some travel coming up to a bunch of different cities, and we'll also be heading to the CHL Top Prospects game in Moncton. So that'll be... Yeah, I mean, flying from LA to Moncton is like, you may as well keep going to Europe. I mean, you're almost in Iceland, right? Yeah, but it's a good game.

It's always fun, isn't it? Very competitive.

Always.

All right, Allen, well, we're looking forward to catching up with you after all that, and thanks so much.

You got it. This has been Agent Provocateur with Allan Walsh and Adam Wild. Follow Allan Walsh on Twitter @Walsh. A. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast by searching Agent Provocateur and hitting the subscribe button, youtube. Com/sdpn.