I found this clip of Bill Zeto, and it's Jesse, send it through to the messaging here. Bill Zeto approaching trades in the offseason. I think this is relevant to if you've got a team, and at least there's been a lot of chatter, obviously, about Mitch Marner in Toronto and how long that's going to last and what return they're hoping for in a trade. I think when you're putting your mock trades together, you shouldn't think value for value necessarily because, A, Capspace, worth a lot a lot. I mean, look it. Let me put this in perspective for you. Patrick Marlowe's salary to the Carolina Huracanes half a decade ago was worth a first-round pick, which is now first-liner Seth Jarvis. So Patrick Marlowe's contract, five and a half, six million bucks, was worth a first-round pick half a decade ago. Imagine what it's worth now. So my point is, Bill Zito makes a really good point about trading in the NHL and how sometimes it's going to look like you got fleeced, but you might want to do it anyway. I'm not suggesting we give great talents away, but I just thought this was really interesting from the guy with laser eyeballs.

With the salary cap right now and then the supply and the demand of the players, it's almost a secondary thing. It's just trying to fit the square into the square hole. You can have a more valuable triangle, but you need a square. I tell a story about trades where it's not It's not always about the trade, but it's about the result. So you may have a situation where you're in the city and you have a ski chalet in the mountains, and your dream is to have your seven best friends come for a ski weekend, and they show up It's awesome. It's Thursday night. You're going up to ski Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and you have four Maseratis, two guys in each car, and you're going, and a blizzard comes. That's it. You dream. Can't go. Can't drive in the snow. I don't I know that for sure. They're race car Maseratis that you can't drive in the snow. The neighbor says, I got four SUVs. You want to trade? Absolutely. And you lost the trade. You got killed on the trade, right? But you had your weekend. That's almost where we are now with regard to personnel acquisitions trades.

It's like you're trying to put the puzzle together.

I just think that's a really interesting, open general manager conversation about trading in the NHL.

I'm sorry. Can you imagine him ordering coffee? I think of a regular coffee. Yeah. I don't know why I turned him into a half Macho Man, Randy Savage. But imagine just meeting that...

He looks at you like dead, silent, but it...

Visually, he's grunting.

You know what I mean? We just had him up. Oh, did we? Oh, my fucking God.

He looked at the Stanley Cup, and that's why they won it.

I watched this and didn't send it to our group chat because I wanted to get your reactions on the show. What do you guys think of that?

Well, I don't know the value of a Maserati. Listen.

They're great until you drive them off the lot, apparently.

Isn't that what I've been saying for months? Isn't that what I've been saying for months with Bob Ogdon and the Leifs? Isn't that what I've been saying for months? No, but how are you going to... You're not going to.

It's the result rather than the deal itself, which is interesting.

Yeah.

No, no. Okay. I thought that was an interesting distinction, and I don't know that it's necessarily right. I just wanted to know what your reactions were.

Bob Ogdon is a Maserati. He's a Maserati. Vroom, vroom. Fast as fuck. Super fun. Everyone loves looking at it. Then the winter comes and you can't drive it, except the winter is the spring and the playoffs.

Jesse?

I'll always have a bit of reverence for Bill Zito because you go back to the Huberto for Kachuk deal. Growing up, well, not growing up, really, but through the mid-2010s, all you think about the Florida Panthers is Barkoff and Huberto. They have two guys, and before that, it's Luongo and all that stuff. But those two guys were the franchise, and that was it. And then they're good. They win the President's Trophy, and then they lose, and they're not good enough in the playoffs. And this guy went out there and was like, You know what? Huberto is due for an extension. We're not good enough. I'm going to make this giant earth-shattering deal for a guy who is literally one of the two faces of the franchise.

Top scoring single season for a left winger ever. Ever. Luke Robetai, bum. Johnny Huberto, and he traded him and his second best defenseman? Yeah. Dude. People, because of revisionism, That deal at the time did not look great.

No, not at all. You look at what Calgary was doing at the time, and there's so much praise being put on Brad Treliving because of the situation he was able to get out of. It was a tough situation where he had a player who didn't want to be there, and we're all just like, Wow, look what you did there, Brad. But we all should have been looking at the other side. In the moment, Bill Zito, his assessment of trades right here in the future, that's what we should have been thinking about then when he made that deal. It's like, Okay, in the end, let's see the result of this. You got to look back on this as one of the most impressive trades in NHL history because of what happened four weeks ago when the Florida Panthers raised the Stanley Cup with Matthew Kachuk. He was willing to make that move with a franchise player, just take a chance because he assessed the team that they had there, and he knew it wasn't good enough, and it needed a giant shakeup, and he was willing to do that deal. I don't know, just looking at what Bill Zito does in the NHL, I think everybody can learn from that.

He gave up the top scoring left winger ever, single season, and a right shot defenseman in your top four. Who can play both sides. Mackenzie Wiger is a freaking stud. He hit 52 points last year. Mackenzie Wiger had 20 goals last year.

He'll beat the brakes off you, he'll hit you. He's amazing. You can play the wheels off him.

And look at that.

The results of it were for Bill Zeto to raise Stanley Cup.

No, you know what would have been better?

No, no. Bob Austin.

I didn't say Bob Austin.

What is it? What is it?

Waiting for it. Sorry. Jesse, put some words in my mouth.

Get the folks out of here. No, no.

Take them out. Take your own words.

No, no. It's what if. I have a way to make Bill Zito's scenario even better. What If they just stayed stranded at the chalet and listened to songs on the radio in their Maserati.

And had chill Maseratis. Yeah.

Yeah, and just had chill Maseratis and went nowhere. And they just stayed there. Did you notice he said four.

Stop. What? Stop. What?

What? No. What if you just went nowhere and did nothing?

Just of note, too, there was also a first-round pick that went in the deal to Calgary. Yeah.

Oh, really? Yeah.

I straight up did not know that.

I forgot that, too. I just googled the trade and there was a first-round pick. So what is the trade? The trade was K'Chuck was traded to the Florida Panthers on Friday with Huberto, part of the hall, going to the Calgary Flames for the power forward. Florida also sent defensive Mackenzie Wiger, prospect Cole Schwint. Yeah, Schwint. Schwint. And a lottery-protected first-round selection in the 2025 NHL draft. Oh, no. So the selection hasn't even happened yet.

Wait a sec. Is that 2025 pick the one they sent to Montreal in the Monaghan trade?

Oh, it might be. Oh. I haven't gone that far, but I am not sure. I'm not. Roof.

That's rough.

This was the first time. This was the I almost said, Go check CapFriendly.

No, you can't. Puckpedia, my friend. The article underneath the trade article, that's like the AP one of just, Hey, here's the trade, is an article by Greg Wyshinski from two years ago, Why the Flames ace the K'Chuck-Huberdo Swap.

Everybody thought they had. That's how we were all thinking at the time. Everybody thought they had.

They had a guy who didn't want to be there in no leverage.

You got Jonathan Huberdo, you signed Nazem Khadri. It's like, Wow, summer of Brad.

I think they had the wrong head coach. I will always maintain that.

Summer of Brad. Because he went from losing... It was Goodro. Goodro walked, and that was a disaster. Then I want to say it was like, Oh, yeah, and they have to trade K'Chuck. They turned that into, Oh, we got Kadri and Wiger and Huberto. A lot of people thought they were going to be good.

Summer of Brad.

I also want to say that I know a lot of people blame Brad for Living, and they should for what to happen. A lot of Calgarians are like, Brad, Brad, Brad, Brad, Flames, but never mentioned in the news, who has made all of these decisions, hiring the head coach, hiring the general manager, hiring-Spitefully never dealing with the leaves.

Don Maloney.

I don't know-What is his title? He is the President of the Flames, and he's the guy that hired all these people. Whether or not Brad had carte blanche or whatever, I know that Brad did not hire Sutter and that Don Maloney did. I know that for a fact. Brad did not want Sutter. Sutter did not want Brad. They were forced into an unhappy marriage by Don Maloney. That, to me, is the start of the downfall. I'm really surprised that guy just skates every time there's any criticism. By the way, the Flames didn't really know for six months of the last year, from '23 in the summer till maybe January this year, didn't really know what the hell they were doing. We're going to be competitive. Okay, we're going to sell, but we're going to be competitive. You should resign because we're going to be competitive, except we're going to sell this guy.

And they're bullshitting their fan base, too.

Well, yeah, now it's official. We're not rebuilding. We're not rebuilding. We're just getting rid of all of our players for futures. We just have our own fans telling us and our own media telling us it's one of the worst forward groups in the league right now. That's not... That's why. That doesn't mean that it won't be great. Karen Govich was a great trade.

Great trade. Well done. You need more than one of those the way.

Yeah.

Hey, that was a great trade. Yeah, you need lots of those.

They're going to have guys come up, like Coronado is a guy. They've got guys, but they need to prove themselves now.

All right. We also can't hold Brad to Living fault if people don't want to play in a market. If people don't want to... They're like, Hey, I don't really like the arena or just everything that's going on here with the owner. I just don't want to play here. I want to live somewhere else. Johnny Goudre wanted to live somewhere else. You can't hold the general manager fault for that.

The reason Johnny wanted to play somewhere else is because they played chicken with him all season. They played chicken with him all season. Then they lose him to the Blue Jackets. Then K'Chuck's like, You know what? I don't want to be here either now.

I think it's worth noting that everyone in the hockey world was like, The Blue Jackets?

The flyers should have had them. The flyers messed up their own cap and couldn't sign it.

Chuck Fletcher can't count.

Literally couldn't count the right dollars, else they would have had them.