Hockey's greatest duos. These guys could be rivals. They could share family. They could share numbers.

A number. Yeah.

So, Steve, you got a pack open? It's a Tim Hortons. You can grab it right now. Kind of like what you used to do on a Friday night when you're renting a movie, only it's better. It's in the morning. Getting your coffee?

Before I open this one, I just want to talk about the dangers of these cards. There's dangers? I got my son Leo some cards, and he pulled out an Edmonton Oilers card, and he knows who they are. And when we got home, he asked to watch Euler's highlights. Whoa. Slippery slope.

Oh, no.

Slippery slope. Oh, no. He doesn't know to leave his household.

Let him become an Oilers fan.

Hey, hey, let's get rid of the generational trauma here, all right?

Just let him.

We have Caleb Jones.

Hey.

And, oh, who could have guessed?

Seth Jones.

They are related because they both play for the Blackhawks.

That's right.

Also, they're related. Ooh, I might have a special one. We got Lee Stackline and Hailey Skimora for the p. For the p. Mighty p. And rookie connections. Oh, and it's. Feel it, feel it.

Oh, it's different, right?

Ooh, it's not that glossy. It's more matte.

It's one of the other ones. Yeah.

What's the rookie connection, though?

It is Jason Robertson. Nick Suzuki. Robertson's first assist for Dallas was February 13, 2020, and Suzuki made the 20, 1920 all rookie team with Montreal.

There you go.

Caleb and Seth, by the way, their dad. Popeye Jones.

That's right. Orlando Magic.

Great former Toronto Raptor.

Oh, that's right. He was a raptor for a bit.

What are you talking about? Orlando Magic. He was a raptor.

That's what I remember him as. Orlando Magic.

Hey, play the ear bench Carter of the Brooklyn Nets.

Each Carter or each cart features two players. NHL legends, retired stars, women superstars, all connected in special ways that include former teammates, captains, friendships, and numbers they've worn. Notable duos? You saw Nick Suzuki, Marty Saint Louis, Matthew and Brady Kachuk. Or Brady and Matthew Kachuk, depending upon which brother you're in favor of.

Okay, neither.

Oh, wow.

Keith.

Wow.

So you can find that right now at Tim Hortons, but you get your coffee in the morning. One thing I was talking about on my stream for the Oilers Canucks game the other day was how Tim Hortons cream. When you get cream at Tim Hortons. Different.

It hits different.

It hits different. All right, you're not gonna get that at home.

Let's get to it.

I'm just throwing that out there. Let's go start the show.

Okay, spaghetti SSD.

The Steve Dangle podcast with your hosts, Steve Dangle, Adam Wild and Jesse Blake. Let's go. I just think it's funny how. Yeah, I just think it's funny how a year ago, a general manager for the Toronto Mabelleafs went on stage and said, hey, there's some patterns developing here. And it's. Sometimes you have a theory and you test it, but then you gotta look at it one day and go, maybe we're getting the same results and we're not liking the results, right? And then he was fired three days later. And a year later, the president gets up in front and says, sometimes you gotta preach patience. But then there are patterns and we have to take a look at the whole. We can't live in a vacuum.

I don't wanna be the read another book guy, but this reminds me of Professor Umbridge's introductory speech at Hogwarts in Harry Potter and the order of the Phoenix. Hated it. No, but how she just rambled on and we must keep certain traditions, but get rid of other traditions. But then it's important to remember the past, but we must go onward into the future now.

And it's just, you know, my favorite part, jumbles.

You didn't see it, did you see it?

What do you mean?

Oh, I thought you were talking about Harry Potter.

No, no, I've never seen Harry Potter.

I thought so. Yeah.

I didn't despise Harry Potter. I just never got into it. So it wasn't my thing, the press conference. I was like watching the clock. I was like, how long till Keith Pelly mentions the european golf tour?

Oh, it was right away.

Right away we got, hey, we won the Ryder cup. And I learned a lot of lessons from winning the Ryder cup as the president of the european golf tour.

Jesse, is it one time in 30 years the Europeans have won it?

Like, it's like, it's not very often.

No. And so it's like, so the one time. Listen, listen. As a one time winner, let me tell you. Also, I allow my players to wear shorts on the european golf tour. That's a big heath. He telling things.

He changed everything.

Yes, a true maverick. I actually. I like Keith. I like Keith.

And I was over there, I saw Liverpool.

He's thinking about the leaf's job.

Reminded me of Liverpool.

If you took a shot every time he mentioned that. He's only been here four weeks. You wouldn't be listening to the show right now, be on the floor unable to push play.

I was blown away. I was blown away by everybody going, this, this is my responsibility. And then everybody saying, it's really not. I can't say that that is my fault.

And then the next guy going, this was my responsibility. But, you know, it's, on the other.

Hand.

I thought Brad Drilleving did well.

Keith Pelley is the new CEO of Maple Leaf Sports and entertainment. He said about five times over the course of the press conference and he had to. And I'll tell you why in a second, that he's only been here four weeks. The reason he's saying that is because he doesn't want to get clipped and say, hey, I'm not taking responsibility for the previous years here. He can't, because he wasn't here. He didn't even live in Toronto. Didn't even live in Canada. Did not live in North America.

No, I don't expect him to.

But he did say, I've been here four weeks now. He said, he opened the conversation saying he will not make it a habit of speaking to the media for team related reasons because his job is to oversee the five teams that Maple Leaf sports and entertainment currently operate.

No, I mean, he'd be doing a press conference every week.

Exactly. So he said, he said, I did say this, though. He's like, I came back to Toronto. Win good is not good enough. We can, where we can, we will provide hockey ops with every resource to win. I can assure, I can assure no decision will be made with our detailed analysis. We need to win. Nothing else matters. No doubt you've heard that before, but I'm 1000% committed to it. Then in Shani's opening statement, he thanked Sheldon Keef, said, ultimate responsibility is on me being Brendan Shanahan. He said, our playoff results have not been good enough. That's on me. Results are unacceptable to fans. And this is going to be the quote, listen, you can't say much at these press conferences, but this is where I want to stop and break this down. Okay.

Here's the one where you paused and looked at me.

I think, well, this is pre you even being here.

Oh, so, no, I was.

This is the first time he did say this, multiple times, but this is the first time he said it. There are times when you talk about patience. However, when you see patterns persist, you have to adjust the way you think about things. Where, where have we said this? Have we not said this?

Do this last year?

We will look at everything this summer and consider everything this summer with all intention to make the leaks better and win. Now, that doesn't seem like much of a statement, but it's actually quite big.

Well, he's basically saying, like, did he explicitly say, and I'm not saying this is going to happen, relax. But did he explicitly say, oh, yeah, we're not going to trade Austin Matthews. We're not going to trade William Nylander, right?

No, he didn't say that.

So everything is on the table now. There's no friggin way they trade either of those players.

Yeah, but exactly.

John Tavares, Mitch Marner. They were both specifically.

Well, they were talking about.

Yeah, they were asked about, I believe it was Luke Fox. And good for him. Someone had to ask it.

Luke, this is later on in the press conference, but Luke said, asking Mitch and John, he said, will you be asking Mitch and John to waive the no trade clause is good for Luke, by the way, for jumping in and asking that question. We're jumping ahead a bit in terms of the timeline, but he said everything is on the table. We'll get back to that. Now, true living opened by. He believed keeping Sheldon here was a good, a good idea. He's an excellent coach, excellent person. He said sometimes in this business, good people have to be changed. This does not follow his feet. And by no means do I want to be taken as this change. By making this change that all arrows point at Sheldon, we got to a place where a new voice was needed. Excuse me. And he said, coaching churning is not what the Maple Leafs are going to be about because that is not a recipe for success.

Are you sure that's what he said? Cuz what I heard was, yeah, the mic wasn't.

Yeah, that was awful, dude.

Yeah. Somebody, somebody at the Leafs, I don't know what it is. The Edmonton Oilers do some of the best press conferencing because their fans sort of demand it. They didn't mic any of the questions until later in the press conference. And I'm like, guys, every single press conference you watch with the Toronto Maple Leafs, you go on and you watch it online and you're like straining to hear the reporter. And I'm like, just, it's a wireless mic. Just give him a mic.

But then the mic turns on and you go ba close your ears with.

For living's mic is. Nobody tested it beforehand?

Yes. Yeah.

It was all peaky and wasn't.

Yeah, turn the game down.

Yeah, they figured it out eventually, but that was, it's funny, like I thought he was saying some of the most insightful stuff of that press conference. Some of the most meaningful stuff.

Yep.

And no one could freaking hear it like he was. All anyone has wanted to know is what the hell is wrong with Austin Matthews? And, like, other injuries to the team? And he's like, well, you know, you got really sick. Just no one could hear.

I was disappointed. No one really pushed him on. Why did you give Keef the two year extension before he addressed it?

He said sometimes. He said he believed keeping Sheldon here was a good decision because he's a good coach and an excellent person.

Yeah, he said that, but I wish somebody pushed him on. You didn't have to make that decision at the time you wanted to keep Sheldon. He was under contract for a year. If there was a chance that if he failed, you move on from him, what's the point of giving him the assurance for two years?

So I think you're right on that, Jesse. And I hadn't thought about it. But what comes to mind there on that particular instance is something that we'll get into as. As we get into more the answers here. Because I think there was an emotional change made at the top last spring, I think. Oh, you think that when Brandon Shanahan, in front of a microphone openly admits on his drive home to mimico that.

That this was pre gardner down to two lanes.

Yeah. Yeah. By the way. Yeah, exactly.

Also, he was cruising.

He was cruising 20 km option to go over 60.

Option. The option. Yeah. In the shoulder in the middle of the night.

Was he driving an ambulance?

How the hell is he going that fast now?

It's just off the table for anybody.

That forgets the timelines. What happened last year was dubious. Got up and he's like, well, I gotta consider my family. Okay, whatever you gotta say.

Wow.

And no, no, no, no. Let's talk about what really happened. Let's talk about what really, really happened last year. What really happened is Kyle Dubas got in front of a microphone and said, this isn't working. And we got to change things, essentially without saying it. And everybody's like, everything's on the table. And everybody's like, agreed. That's great that you got past the first round and got out played the whole way and your goalie got you there. Let's be honest about that.

And then goalie's gone now.

Yeah. And that goal is not as good anymore. And then you got rinsed in the second round by a team that. That barely made the playoffs, who are actually good and ended up making the cup final. Yeah. But also did not barely qualify. Let's be honest.

It's like March 1, the Panthers went.

Oh, we can play hockey.

You know when it started.

They haven't turned it off.

You know when it started? When Toronto, Keith Kachuk, he's Kaczyk, got on Toronto radio and said they're soft. And guess what happened? He canceled their YouTube trip. The, but, but when we, when we go back to Jesse, what you said, what you said there was, why did he commit to Sheldon? And my answer to that, my speculation about that is that he didn't. He was hired. And Brennan said, no, we're going to do this again. And Dubas was fired in part because, no, we're going to do this again. And they were privately behind the scenes at loggerheads. They had, neither has really come out and spoke on it. I wonder if Dubas ever will. Probably not. But their relationship, which started very close, remember Brandon plucked him out of the sue was, from what I understand, they were barely able to be in the same room.

Yeah. Here's what needs to happen. One of them needs a book. One of them needs a book because.

Oh, that book deal is going to be fat. Oh, yeah.

Because, dude, I keep bringing it up because I read it recently. I can't believe the shit in the Brian Burke book. I can't believe it. And like, what I'm, every time he says a story, I'm like, is this common knowledge why no one reads, dude.

You should read hockey books. They're great.

What do you buy? Yeah, I'm sure he sold a bunch of books, though. What, do you buy it and put it on the shelf? Audiobooks. Really good.

Yep.

You haven't even got to the point where Dubas want the reason they're, they're butting heads. Because he wanted his job, because he wanted autonomy.

Right.

And Brendan Shanahan made the biggest power play and he said, I'm stuck still above you in this organization. I'm going to get rid of you.

Right.

And that's what he did.

Now I have, I have more on that later because there's, there's some insights.

That I don't think you're wrong on the keef thing where it's Bradshaw living. And famously, through Luke Fox's reporting, says he sat down with Keef for 16 hours of meetings for two straight.

Oh, my God.

You remember?

Oh, yeah. We met for 72 hours over the last two days.

Like the August report where they sat down for 16 hours over two days or whatever it was. And he's like after that I came out full belief of Sheldon Keef and all that stuff. And then later on he gets the extension. I think a lot of that is Shannon, who you get rid of dubious. You say, we're running this back again and running it back includes running it back with the coach. So you have continuity there.

And hey, you want this job, Brad? We're keeping the coach and we're keeping the core for figuring out.

I think that's a very poor decision. And I don't know if Brendan Shanahan has to wear that inside of the organization because they have to pay him out for two years now. But I don't think publicly no one's really hanging this over.

Oh, we will be now. Will be now.

That's why I'm bringing it up. Because it's an egregious error. And now Sheldon Keefe is gone and gets to sit at home by Lakeshore today, make his videos and get paid.

Today's the day, Jesse. Today's the day. Because as much as people walked away from that press conference, oh, no accountability whatever. What we now get to do is actually hold. That was the first time Brennan's talked to the media in twelve months, by the way, and has not talked to the media in twelve months. And to your point about nobody's hung this on Brennan. A lot of it was hung on Dubious and I agree with that. Brendan sat up there today who hired and said the exact. Hold on. He said the exact same thing.

Sorry. That's a very valid point. Is he fucking hired Dubas.

Brandon got up there today and said the exact same thing. Kyle Dubas said in May 2023. So where are we hanging this? And by the way, we were saying that in September, October last year. We're like Dubas. We've known about trades that got nixed by Brendan. Specifically the Brendan Hagel one drives me crazy. It would have been the loss of Matthew Nyes, but it would have been Marc Andre Fleury and Brennan Hagel would have been pretty good.

Yeah, without. It would have been pretty good.

Pretty good.

We'll never know without a time machine.

Brandon Hagel did eat the Leafs alive that year.

Yeah. I like life with Matthew. Nice. But. Oh, Brandon Hagel.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Now without him, they win that series.

Before we get to the reporter, questions for Keith, for Brennan and for Brad. I do want to mention that Brad Trilliving did talk about the injuries. And as far as playoff injuries go, the Leafs were relatively healthy. So we start with McMahon McAll strain. They expected it to be about seven weeks. They thought he might be available for set for the second round. Austin Matthews got sick at the end of game two. They initially thought it was food poisoning or a virus. And then he got a weird hit in game four, and he was having head injuries. Now, I bet the hit in game four is the one where he was slammed backwards into the ice.

See, they said a suspected head injury.

Yeah, they suspected it, but they cleared him. Game seven. Because apparently the symptoms were gone magically on the morning of game seven.

The afternoon, everyone.

Oh, man. Everyone in the room went, okay. Knee lander. Severe migraines developed after game 82. He has had these before, but they did treat them as possible concussion syndrome symptoms, but they cleared them. However, I do want to point out that Matthew's concussion potential syndrome, you know, whatever it was that he had magically cleared up in game seven. So, you know, remember, these are sports.

Injuries, and he had a damn assist.

Connor Dewar is getting shoulder surgery today. Will be back for training camp. Joseph wall, si. Joint sprain, which is your back. And that was on the last play against Boston.

Hey, there's an injury I can relate to. Damn, that sucks, Joe.

Does it feel. Does it feel good? Could you play goalie?

No.

Okay.

Nothing. Walking is shit. Sitting is actually the worst.

So that's why Marty Jones was sitting on the bench. Ah, you see, that made him unavailable for game seven. So we get another press conference, and somebody immediately asked Keith, hey, Keith Pally. That is, when will it be possible to win? Now, I couldn't hear who the reporter was because they didn't mic the reporters at the beginning. So I apologize if I don't quote some of the reporters directly, it's because I could not hear who it was. And some of these reporters, you can just tell by their voice. And Keith said, well, I can't put a timeline on it. And of course he can't. But he did say this. Skill, chemistry, unity. Nothing else matters other than winning a cup. And he said he did provide clarity because they did have to ask him, hey, is Shanahan staying? And he's like, yeah, Shannon staying. And he was talking about the what success is skill plus chemistry plus unity. And he said that the chemistry and unity between Shanahan and true living, especially over the four weeks that he's been here, really hit home for him. So he's confident in that now. What else is he supposed to say?

Let's move on to the people that really you want to hear from, right?

I mean, here, I think we should clarify this people want to know. A lot of people listening want to know, who is this man and why.

Should I listen to Keith Pelley is known for some massive successes at TSN. He started as a producer and they took. He and Scott Moore worked together a little bit there and they took. Keith was able to take the CFL, which was failing in the nineties, and turn it into a massive, massive success, massive rating success, massive television success. It was huge, enormous. And it's still pinball. Doug Flutie, still vague, just not maybe in the east as much as the west, or at least I'll say Toronto because I don't count Montreal on that. Montreal fans, Alouettes fans are crazy. So he did a lot of stuff there. He moved his way up through TSN and headed up the media there and then moved over to Rogers and became the head of Rogers Media. So it wasn't. Now it's called Rogers sports and media, but back then it was just called Rogers media. And he was the one that convinced then CEO Nadir Mohammed to go after the full package, NHL rights, meaning that Sportsnet would own all the hockey and TSN would get some regional games. Because what initially TSN and Rogers were going to do, and this is how TSN approached the NHL, was, we're not going to let CBC have it anymore because hockey Night in Canada was a purely CBC product for 50 something years or more.

Keith went to Nadir Mohammed and said, bell is going to come at this conservatively. If we go at this aggressively, we can take the entire rights package. And that's what they did. And apparently the $6.2 billion number. 5.2 or 5.25. Sorry, five. 5.2 billion. Excuse me. They went to the NHL. The NHL was blown away. Keith is a very, very good. He's a good talker. He's great with relationship building. If you were running an organization like Rogers, you would want him in charge. And the idea was that they would catch Bell flat footed. Bell was caught flat footed. George Cope flew to New York to meet with Gary Bettman and said, okay, they're offering 5.2, we'll give you 5.4. But Gary said, no, I'm a man of my word. 5.2 was the number we agreed on. It's going to Rogers. So Bell almost paid more, would have paid $200 million more for it.

Holy.

That's the report now, Keith, the first three years of the Rogers sports net deal didn't go well the first year, no canadian team made the NHL playoffs. Excuse me. And you have to remember some debate you have to remember, too. 2013, 2014 were pretty rosy times in the canadian economy. We were on par or above the american dollar at that point because of the crash in zero nine. And so he negotiates a deal that's a sliding scale deal. It's $250 million year one, but by year twelve, it'll be $750 million a year, whatever the division is. And so, you know, it looks okay. But again, they don't get any playoff revenue, which sucks. They hire an enormous staff. They make Sportsnet magazine. The whole thing was supposed to be like a five pronged approach to make this money back.

They hire some idiot named Steve.

Well, yeah. And what they found, though, is when they went out to market to sell it, they thought they'd cornered the market on hockey. And what advertisers told them was, these are prices that we're not paying, so we'll buy other sports. And what TSN did to counter them is they leaned into football. And that has seen an enormous rise in football in Canada. So all that is to say, then, Keith is moved on from that position to the european golf tour, where he is very successful. And we make fun of it. But, like, the big move was, you know, he allowed them to wear shorts on tour. But he is. He obviously was very, very successful there and then. Now Maple leaf sports and entertainment brings him in. Larry knows him from his time at Bell and Rogers. Bell knows him well. Rodgers knows him well. It makes sense.

So also, champion Gray cup guy. Cause he ran the Argos at the time when they won that cup.

Right? Oh, okay, I forgot. He ran the Argos. There you go.

So he's got a ring.

So once again, very important. There's a lot of. Oh, yeah, he's got a great cup ring, but there's people listening, going, all right, so that's his resume. Why do I care?

While you.

And, well, now he's the big honcho, your favorite sports team.

He's Brendan Shanahan's boss.

Yeah.

And to my knowledge, I mean, Brendan Shanahan has always had to answer to people, but I don't know if he's had, like, a direct one guy before he was hired by Tim Lewicki. Loicki left several months after hiring Shanahan a decade ago.

And since then, well, it's Michael Freesdale that was the.

The CEO, but he was always more business.

Yeah, Mike, Michael Freesdale is a. Was a hands off guy when it came to that stuff. And he was hired to do just the business stuff. But I think Maple Leaf Sports has evolved to the point where you need a guy who understands and loves sports to do it.

One thing I didn't really like is how he phrased his role with MlSe and what dragged him back to this position and that entirely being the Leafs, being in charge of the Leafs and this part of the organization, because as somebody who also cares about the Raptors and there are other properties within MLSE, there are five teams. It didn't seem like Keith Belly realized that there are four other teams under his. His thumb now. And just like, I get that they're not even close to as important, but as a fan of those teams, specifically the Raptors.

Raptors are pretty damn important.

They're pretty.

I.

Their evaluation at some points is higher, is just as in par with the Toronto Maple Leaf.

It's been higher.

I'm pretty sure the ball is bigger. Yeah, it's just a bigger spot. It's a bigger sports, a bigger property. And I didn't like that. He's just like, you know, I'm here for the Leafs. You know, you also have four other teams.

Yeah, I do think. I do think that. That he. Right off the top, I think he was trying to say, I'm not going to make this a habit. I don't get involved, but I feel like he needed to make a public face at some point. And, yeah, you're right, Jesse.

He said specifically, the thing that got me here is the Leafs and the fans and everything. I'm like. But, like, I'm also a raptors fan, dude. Like, I hope you care about that team, too.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, are you tired of basking in the rays of your team's playoff success?

No.

Couldn't be us.

What?

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I like. I'm in my dad era.

You and your dad era.

So aviator.

I like that. Jesse, what are you going for? No.

Aviator is always a classic. I think I'll side with Steve on that one. Can't go wrong with aviators.

There you go. Well, you can get a couple aviators for 50% off.

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What if I wanna goatee with my aviator?

You can grow that on your own. Shady rays doesn't offer that.

Ah, it doesn't come with the goatee.

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The difference is, Jesse doesn't need to buy a goatee. I do.

This episode is brought to you by better help. Spring is a time for therapy. It's a time for cutting your losses.

Being, come on, man.

Being a little.

Trying to make people feel better.

Wow. That's why you need better help.

Oh, fair enough.

Listen, if I were you and you needed some sort of therapy, we make jokes about the leafs, but honestly, sometimes you just, you need therapy. We've all needed it.

There's bigger things than the leafs in life sometimes, believe it, sometimes there isn't.

I disagree with you there. Oh, the number one thing in my life and I live or die. But anyway, long story short, if you're looking to give therapy a try, betterhelp might be for you. And here's why. You're able to text, you're able to call, you're able to do FaceTime. However you want to do therapy. It's up to you. If you don't vibe with your therapist, you can get matched with a new one in 48 hours or less. Get it off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash SDP today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. Help. Help.com spell better too.

Oh, you're just going to spell help? Like, you just assume people can spell.

Better, better, better and then help help.com sdp so, so moving on to the, the press conference part of it, because obviously we've talked about Keith here. Brennan was asked by Luke Fox of Sportsnet. Hey, and I got to give Luke Fox a lot of credit. And there's another person I'm going to. A few other reporters I got to give credit to because they asked very bold questions. The Toronto media did its job today. I feel Luke Fox asking Mitch and John to waive their no trade clauses went right at him and said, are you going to ask them? Brendan Shanahan said this and again he repeats the answer, but it's important that you note it. Everything is on the table, but it doesn't serve the Leafs to discuss those things prematurely. The focus right now is to find a new head coach. I do believe there is time for preaching patients, but he did say he doesn't believe that time is now. He was preaching patients last spring. He was preaching patients, the former, the previous six years before last spring. Um, and then here's the great follow up. Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun. Steve says this, in eight elimination games, your team has scored eleven goals.

Why should we, man? Why should we believe you when you say that you can change this and the time for change is now and you haven't thought and you haven't been able to get it done before. And Brendan, legit. And I think that's a great question.

Legit.

And Brennan said that is the challenge. We wake up every day thinking about ways we can change the narrative and the results. And he said, you got to get into the dirty areas, Brandon. This is important. You got to get into the dirty areas. Aside from the Tampa series, and he referenced the power play in all other series, we haven't gotten those results. And he's talking about playoff goals, which.

Is something that Sheldon Keef has emphasized with his team for at least three years.

So there's the, there's a clip that we can't play, which is funny because we had a deal with, with Amazon when this came out. There's a clip that we can't play because it's part of the Amazon doc where Keef is meeting with Joe Thornton, Mitch Marner, John Tavares and a few other stars.

We probably could play it, but we're not going. We're not going on our YouTube channel.

Yes, it is.

So like, we couldn't, like we wouldn't flag ourselves.

I know. I don't know if the whitelisting lasts three years or not.

We could play it if you really.

Wanted to, but let's not, let's, let's not get demonetized.

Sorry, everyone.

Basically it was making the rounds yesterday and it's keef talking to the guys with masks on.

Yes.

About what it is to score a goal in the playoffs and how this is going to be different. And Joe Thornton, notably in it, which kind of went past passing at the time, but has really resonated in the three years since, says, give us a break, we're in first place or layoff. We're in first place, I believe is what he said. And Joe and I liked him in Toronto. He wasn't great, but I liked him. He's a great personality.

He's pretty old.

He was brought in to be a mentor to the young guys. And that is not what anybody wants to see or hear from their favorite team going into the playoffs.

Part of the reason people are frothing at the mouth right now for Craig Baruby is a clip that's been going around of Sheldon Keef before game seven this year. And he goes, all right, guys, relax, have fun, all that. And then they show a clip of Craig Baruby from before game 720. 19 Stanley cup final in Boston, by the way. He's like, we're taking the fucking cup tonight. Like, just hellfire and Brimstone fired up. Let's friggin. And the Leafs just haven't had that.

Yeah, they haven't had that. Mark Masters, as you look back, why do you think. And I'm paraphrasing Mark's question here because it was hard to hear, why do you think they haven't got. Why. Why hasn't the core four got this group over the top? Brendan Shanahan, that's a difficult question. There is a time where the right answer is patience. New information has evolved, and you just have to adjust the way you're thinking. Chris Johnston, what? So what he's saying is. What he's saying is he doesn't know why the core four theory didn't work.

I need. I know. I need you to read it again.

Okay, so Mark Masters, as you look back, why do you think they, as in the core four, haven't been able to get the group over the top? Good question, Shanahan. That is a difficult question. And again, I'm paraphrasing some of the. Some of the things.

Okay.

There is a time where the right answer is patience. Sometimes new information. And he says evolved. New information has evolved. And you have to adjust the way of thinking, or you have to adjust your way of thinking. Which goes back to his initial statement, word salad. No, I don't think it is.

Yummy, yummy.

I think I actually disagree with you completely.

Yeah.

I think that is 100% saying we're changing directions now. Now. And you. You would be right to say the time to change it was last spring, Shani.

Yeah.

The time to change it was probably when you look back, your cup window with Tavares was 1920 and 21. And I know there was a pandemic, but that was your cup window, the time to change things. In retrospect, hindsight being 2020, was that, okay, we didn't get it done against Montreal, but Tavares got injured. So let's do it against Tampa. Oh, we didn't get it done against Tampa. You know what I mean?

Like, there's so many times they could have pulled the chute. Like COVID genuinely boned this team. It boned this team more than any other.

But you know, what they heard about.

Strategy and what they did about it is nothing, right? So if it wasn't 2021, it was damn sure 2022 and they didn't do anything. And then they win in 2023 and you go, oh, hooray.

And they lose, I think.

Well, I guess the organization as a whole, they, they're showing a pattern of doing everything about a year late. And I wonder with Shanahan and his job is, is like, is, was this the year to move on from him? And are we going to sit here next year and be like, okay, now's the time to move on? And we're all like, it's a year late. You know, with the Sheldon Keef stuff, with trading Marner, it was a year late. His no movement clause didn't kick in with having the core established and saying this is our time to go for it. It was two years ago.

Replacing the GM. Replacing the GM. If you were going to do it, you do it after you lose to Montreal and Tampa in success. Yeah. If you were going to do that, if you were going to make changes, that was the year to do it. It doesn't mean that he dubious should have been let go. It just means that if you were going to do it, that was the time.

Speaker one.

Their mentality in all of these decision makings is we don't want to make a rash decision, we don't want to jump into something too soon. But that has led them over this length is ten years of Shanahan's run to doing everything a step too late. And that's left them just trying to chase these things that they should have been doing a year or two earlier. And I feel like we're just on this, this constant loop of, okay, you made this decision, it's the right decision now, but it should have been made the season prior. And I feel like every single time we're in this instance and Chris Johnston, I assume you're going to get to his cash.

He's the next one contract.

You can read it because I think that's an important one there where his contract's expiring.

Before I get to what CJ said, and I think it's important, I want to add to your point, Jesse, there's a theory in wargaming. Bear with me that you arrive at a battlefield. The other army arrives at a battlefield and it's called seizing the initiative. And there are, hey, we can fight the battle in battle a or we can fight the battle in battle b. And what the Leafs do is they go, I'll let the other team decide. It's called seizing the initiative. So what great generals do is they seize the initiative. They go, no, we're gonna fight it this way. Because my team does this well on these. With these circumstances, and this gives us the best chance of winning. We're not gonna let the other guys decide. We're going in this way, and this is how we're gonna fight it.

We're not gonna react.

We don't let it come to us. And that's what they're doing now.

So never once during the Bell Rodgers ten year Shanahan run have I ever seen them be proactive in any of these decisions. It's always reactive and it's been very disappointing. And I don't think that's a recipe for success.

Chris Johnson, can you clarify to shannon your contract situation? Quote, I'm not going to go into the details. It's not a focus for me. And then he went on to talk about how his previous contract was a month from expire expiry before they re signed the new one. And Chris, in his question, mentioned something about performance objectives as well. Like, hey, is there performance objectives? Like. And obviously, yeah, I think Chris knew that Shady wasn't going to fully answer that question. I think he knew. But you got to ask.

Yeah, you do? I mean, I don't know. It's. It's. It's. Press conference is one of those things where you're like, well, what do you expect them to say? I don't know. Not much. But they might.

Yeah, gotta try.

That's their. That's their job is to ask the question. They might answer. They might not. But your job as the reporter is to answer. Ask the question.

The, like, the. The no move clause for martyr and Tavares, you know what would have been great there? Yep, we're moving them.

Yeah.

Yep. We're gonna ask him to move their thing. And we actually sent Tavares a text, like, right before his plane took off to Prague just to piss him off. Anyway, good luck at the worlds. And you're.

I mean, you're never getting that answer.

No, but you know what answer we didn't get? No.

Which is what we got emphatically last year.

Yes.

Which is an answer in and of itself.

Right. I am not asking those players to move their. No move.

I mean, my favorite.

Anything other than imagine you're those people, right? Anything other than a no makes you uncomfortable.

Of course. My favorite answer like that in hockey history that I can remember is when, at the draft in 2016, Mark Berjevant was asked, are you trying to trade PK soup end? And he said, no, we are not actively shopping PK soup end. And he was traded, like, a day later or two days later, which, no.

We are not actively shopping him. Is so different from. No.

Very different.

It's no. With a bunch of herbs and spices.

Shani was asked, can the core group win? Quote, there's a time where you look at the age and development of a player, and then he's talking about patience. And he said, and then there's a time. There comes a time when trends repeat themselves without getting specific. When we're talking, when we're taking this team into the playoffs next year, we want to be more confident the team can get results. I think that's a big quote, too, because it. It lends itself to the fact of this year we weren't totally confident. Whatever confidence we had, we knew there were holes and, you know, rightfully so. You know your team strengths and your weaknesses, but the Leafs strengths and weaknesses were essentially the same. And, you know, I look at this personally and say, this is the most we've ever gotten from Brendan Shanahan, if you're really listening to the quotes, because it's the most he's had to say. And I can understand, by the way, you know, people. People ask why Leaf fans are so upset and frustrated all the time. This is why. Cause we could have told you three years ago, and we were told, no, no.

You don't know better. You don't know better. You watch. It's gonna turn around for us. We need to be patient. We need to be patient. No. At a certain point, this is pro sports. This is not the patience game. This is not. Hey, I'm building a sandcastle. Over the course of several days. This is years and years and years of work. Millions and millions and millions of dollars. And by the way, millions of dollars spent by Toronto Maple Leaf fans. On jerseys, on beer, on tickets. Corporations buying those outrageously priced platinum seat tickets. Because, by the way, no human being is buying that themselves. They're buying that as a write off.

Burger flippers with a piece of game. You stick as the handle.

Exactly.

That's something they sell 100%. I almost bought one.

Well, and they bought.

Sounds like really good. Yeah, I kind of want that for Christmas.

They have a bunch of stuff in that store where I'm like, you should really tell people you have this.

That's kind of cool. Yeah.

I always find it strange when the Leafs are selling something and I'm learning about it for the first time. I'm like, wait, okay, did this come out today? Who's pulling my leg? What's going on?

Anyway, so, so that's, that's significant. Now, another significant thing comes up with Brad for living. First off, he's instantly asked about Craig Brube. And he's like, I'm not going to get into specific individuals, of course.

Yep.

Fair on the Leaf's lack of scoring in the playoffs. Is it systematic or is it personnel? And he said a very, you know, Brad's very funny. He's actually got a good sense of humor. And he said, we seem to be turning the other team's goalie into the first star every night.

Man, this, there was a game, I don't remember the season. I'm going to say 20, 21, 22 early in the season. And the Leafs got 40, 50 shots on eager shasturkin. And Sheldon Keef said we made his night easy. Something along those lines.

I remember that podcast, actually. I remember talking about.

And people were like, dude, you're nuts. They had 50 shots. I'm like, how many of them were dangerous? They, I think they had two goals that game. They lost four. Two or something like that.

And by the way, like, advanced stats love games like that. Although he should have won.

Well, it's a, it's a deserved a win o meter feast. Right. And, oh, speaking of, we'll talk about Carolina a little bit later.

Yeah, sorry. Publicly available bance, advanced stats, the private ones are actually brilliant.

Well, yeah, I mean, a lot of the public ones are made with blood, sweat and tears. And anyway, that's a whole different discussion.

Doesn't make him accurate.

He wasn't. He being eager? Shasturkin was not being adequately tested by these shots. Also, he's an incredible goalie, but he wasn't being adequately tested by these shots. I mean, you know, we talk about, you know, man, when things get tight. When it gets tight. Dude, have you seen the first few games of the second round?

Wide open?

It's teams blowing other teams out of the water. There was an odd man rush every 45 seconds in Rangers Carolina. Holy shit, what a series.

Jesse, you must have had fun streaming that one.

Yeah, it was really good. I assume we'll get to the game.

Yeah, we will.

Yeah. Dallas blew a three nothing lead, and then very narrowly avoided blowing a four nothing lead.

Edmonton blew a four one lead.

Edmonton blew a four one lead, and Boston kind of kicked Florida's ass game one. And then Florida kicked their ass game two. You know, there's been a lot of goal scoring. Now maybe it's early series, and then it. Titans, Titans, Titans. You gotta be able to win both ways. And, you know, I'm happy that the leaf showed, like, hey, we could win two out of three in elimination games. They always find a way to lose that last one. There was some stat I saw yesterday where Sheldon Keef is only. I think his playoff record was 16 and 21. I'm like, how is that possible that he's only lost five more games than he's won? How the hell is that?

Because they go to game seven, game five.

He's three and four every time out. That makes a lot of sense.

They got. I want to say it was one.

Goal against Columbus, five for twelve at home, by the way.

Yeah. Oh, good lord. I'm surprised it's even that good.

Five on twelve.

One goal at home against Columbus, one goal at home against Montreal, one goal at home against Tampa, two goals on the road to close out Tampa, Florida. You got your ass kicked. And this year, one goal on the road against Boston. One goal. One goal. One goal. One goal. One goal. It just keeps going that way.

Yeah. It was interesting to hear his assessment of it, because I agreed with him that scoring is clearly the issue. They're perfectly fine, but his assessment is, like, we need to score in the dirty areas and all that stuff, but you could also beat them with the offense if the offense is high flying and it works in the playoffs.

I. Dude, the tip panerin had last night, I think it was the game winning goal.

Made me physically ill. Yeah, that was the OT winner.

Yeah.

Like, saying, like, we need to move off of skill. He kind of said in a way, you know, he's talking a lot about skills, and it's not that we need a loose skill, it's that we need guys who can play the other way, but, like, you can also have the.

Uni also need the skill. We need to move off of low percentage plays that come to us easily.

That's.

That's a. Yeah, that's fair.

Like, I think that's a really good way to put it. And they're so good at caving teams in with those goals in the regular season because, I don't know, man. This is night three of four. I'm on the road. I don't give a shit. Like, you know, I always wonder, and this, there's no way to ever know the answer to this, but sometimes I'll watch a bottom five team and I go, I wonder what they would be like if they were just placed in the Stanley cup playoffs. I bet a lot of them do completely differently. I mean, look, look how many times we've seen that. Chicago beating Edmonton in the qualifying round in 2020. They were the 23rd seed. Montreal beating the Leafs. I might be screwing up.

Columbus beating the Leafs.

Yeah, I might be screwing up my ears, but the Habs won against the Leafs is the. No, the Habs beat the Penguins is the 24 seed.

Yeah. The Habs won in the canadian division season.

Like, I don't know. Sometimes I just get curious. I'm like, what if you just took the ducks and we're like, you're playing the Bruins.

Yeah, but sometimes then you get the Washington Capitals of this year.

Right, right. That's very true. I mean, listen, I'm not saying they would go on a run and win the cup, but I am saying they're two completely different styles.

Yeah.

I don't think the Leafs have the ability right now to win in the way Colorado did in game one, where they charge back and they take back a 30 lead. Because the Leafs can't do that. And I don't think they, they've proven now they can't win this way, where they can't win the two. One game against the Bruins.

They also can't, they can't neutralize the best, the other team's best player either. Like you look at. Let's just look at game one. And I know it's one game. Game one. Edmonton. Vancouver. Cause that's the game I watched.

The closest.

Yep.

McDavid did not have a shot for.

The first time in his playoff career. Bananas. I didn't know Vancouver was capable of that. I'll just straight up say it. That's the reason why I picked Edmonton to win the series. I. If you were to tell me a team blew a four one lead in that series because the team stormed back.

To win it, you'd be the team.

With the, wow, how did Edmonton do it?

Yeah, it would be the team with the rookie third string goaltender to another.

One for she loves.

Has he lost the game one? I think.

I think he's widely lost a game. Yeah, he did lose a game.

Unbelievable. Like Edmonton's taken on Vancouver's third goalie. How many people listening to this right now heard of Archer Sea? Laughs for the first time in his first game of these playoffs.

Oh, yeah.

100. Why would you pay attention to the third string goalie on Vancouver? Unless you're a Vancouver Canucks fan.

Yeah.

Or there's something related.

I'm not ripping a lot of Abbotsford games. I'll put it there. Yeah.

Like, I. If you were like, hey, you know, Archer Sea lapse, I'd be like, that's a person. Like, I knew he was in Vancouver's depth chart.

I couldn't have told you much about it. Does seem a little bit like a creative player name, too. Cause Archers is a goalie name for sure.

Could have been. Dude, I had players on my NHL 2001 team who were creative players, and I still remember their name because they were valuable parts of my Stanley cup winning teams. Shout out Jeff Svohm.

Okay, there you go. I got. So the other major thing that you should take away from this press conference was Brad treliving on goaltending.

Oh, this was Sammy. So gone.

Oh, he said, I got faith in Joe. Sometimes bad luck happens. But he mentioned, is this, is this an injury prone player? Is it something that needs to. Is it a training issue? Is it off ice routine? He said, we have to support Joe. Ilya's contract is up.

So again, he can say things very plainly. Like, I think, what could he have said beyond, I am not bringing back Elizabeth, though.

You can't. No, I know you can't.

I know.

And I had somebody who's well placed and knows what they're talking about say, listen, everybody talks about the Leafs needing to move this, remove that. He's like the number one thing he believed, and he's been the NHL a long time, that the, the Leafs need as a goaltender this year. And isn't it funny that one of the best ones available is in Calgary? Not that they'll do a deal with.

Which means he's. Yeah.

Yeah. Which means he's going to New Jersey.

Guys, I don't have the energy. If you have a Leafs trade proposal, make sure it's not the flames.

Yeah.

It's not happening.

Yeah. The second round is well underway in the NHL playoffs. Get ready with all the action at Ben MGM, the king of sportsbooks. Guys, how are we feeling about the picks that we made in our brackets? Are you feeling confident?

I went, I think, three for eight.

On the first round.

On my first round series predictions. I over thought everything. Like, looking at it, I was like, you know what? The islanders come out. They're come out so competitive. You know what? Colorado, that Nathan McKinnon trash. He can't do it. I overthought it all, and I went three for eight. Garbage. Garbage picks. Don't listen to me.

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Exactly. Betmgm.com for terms and conditions, must be 19 plus to wager Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with igaming Ontario. When they talked about the head coach thing, he, you know, somebody asked him about Keef and he said, I don't want to say that the players stopped listening, but the message stops hitting home. We know that, but that was three years ago. The message stopped hitting home.

Exactly. Like, we know that almost for certain. No, it started to work. It started to work. They scored more playoff style goals.

It was worth series.

Well, this is the thing which scored.

A second of game where they didn't score more than three goals. Did this.

No, I know it started to work.

No, the one where they scored two or the other one where they scored one.

No, but I scored two when there.

Was one where they scored three.

The one when I started watching that Amazon or after I watched that Amazon Amazon documentary, I started watching the Leafs through a bit of a different lens, and I started going, okay, beyond the fact that they won four one tonight, which is great, how'd they win? Like, how did they do it? How did they get those four goals? Like, there were games where the Leafs won, the Leafs lost from like, wow, I don't know. This one hit an ass. This one, I don't know. Goalie probably should have saved it. This one hit the linesman. You know, stuff like that. But I started to watch. I'm like, okay, is that goal going in? In the playoffs? All right, dude rips it down the wing, and he comes in and he snipes it. Top chad, not the Leafs glove side.

That happens, but not the leafs.

It decreases in the playoffs big time. Like, even, like, we were just talking about Paneran, what do you think about Panera and what do you think? Like, high end skill. Being able to kick yourself in the forehead for some reason.

Vision.

Yeah, great Selly.

Yeah, vision. You know, being able to make plays, that's a tipping. Like, it's a high end, nice looking tipping, but, like, that's a tipping. That's how you have to bloody score.

Well, what about on the power play? That's something that the Leafs could do. Cause they're given a million opportunities and they have an inability to do that. Well, that's something that is like a skill and coaching issue, and they need to solve that.

Perimeter, perimeter, perimeter. On.

Stop.

Because it's a low percentage shot. No one's there for the rebound. Clear. Try to gain the zone. Fail. Try to gain the zone.

Fail.

Try to gain the zone.

Fail.

Line change. Try to gain the zone.

Fail.

Try to gain the zone. Get it? Perimeter, perimeter, perimeter. Soft shot on stopped. Cleared. Penalty is over. How many power plays do we see that way? You know what I mean? And they're not like, the Bruins will just send enormous bodies in front because it's hilarious. Like, they. They sent Patrick Maroon out. They sent Justin Braso out. I know this is long spilled milk, but 2013, when the Bruins tied the game against the Leafs. Game seven.

Go.

Look who's in front. Who's at the point? Is it Zidane Ochara who has maybe the hardest shot in NHL history? No, he's the net front guy because it's hilarious and effective. You take away the goalies ability to goalie, he can't see shit. You know, the lease started for a while there to do a really good job of taking away the opposing goalies eyes. And against Boston, they just stopped doing that.

I think this is why it was more than enough time to move on from Sheldon Keef. And as MLS, he does. It's a little too late. But he never figured out how to get the players he was given to score in the playoffs and especially on the power play. And the players that are there don't know how to score in the playoffs.

And you know what? Neither could Babs. Right?

Yeah.

And so, you know, I'll give Babs credit. They did score more goals when Babs was coaching in the playoffs. They just let in a pile of bad ones, too. I also don't think. I think, and we can get into the minutiae of this, but I think of things like the Leafs six defenseman is Travis Dermot, and he does a spin around overtime and it leads to a goal. When the Leafs come out like a house on fire and. And have 15 shots on net. And the one shot the Habs get goes in.

It might have been their best period of the series.

And it's.

And they lost.

And it's stuff like that where. That's where I say part of this wasted. This is a wasted. We've wasted time here. A lot of time. One thing I'll say about Brad is that he did bring in veteran presence and didn't allow guys like Giordano and Brody, who were clearly not up to it, to play in this series, much more than Brody's one game. And the Edmondson effect. Was Edmondson great? No. Was he solid? Yes.

I liked him as an option.

I did too. And I think that's. I like that. At least the team's going that way. Um. Uh, the last thing, um. Trilligan kind of ends. Answers his last question by saying, short answer. We have to look at everything. We've got good players, but it hasn't worked. Duh. Now, uh, all that to say, you're going to hear a lot of people say, well, they didn't take accountability or they didn't do this or they didn't do that, or. I don't know any more than I did before. Yes, you do. First off, you know, you know, Sam, he's as good as gone. They're going to find any. If Sammy is back as the Leafs goaltender next year, something's gone really wrong. And he was their last option.

I mean, we've seen it happen before. I'll be stunned.

I'd be stunned, but again, I was stunned when the Leafs actively went after Matt Murray as their goaltender and augmented that with Peter Marasic.

What was the plan there?

There wasn't one. Steve, that's the. That was a. That was a bad day in Montreal when we found out that was happening, because that's when it was when we were. We were in Montreal for the draft when that happened.

We were.

We were. I remember when that. And I don't remember. Friedge has gone on the Jeff Merrick show, by the way, over the course of this recording and said that he believes. That. He believes that Berube will be the head coach of the Toronto Maple lease by the end of the weekend.

Which end of the weekend?

Friday.

By the end of the weekend.

All right.

Kipper was saying, I think earlier that they've made contact with. With Peru base camp, which.

Would you listen to hear him say this or you see a tweet?

It's on. It's on twitter. It's out there. So I'm thrilled that Todd McClellan's name is not in there because that's a Babcock guy, and I'm not interested. We've been. We've done that. Been there, done that. He's a Babcock disciple. No.

Can I.

Not into it.

Can I say, a terrible reality?

What?

Lots of coaches are Babcock disciples.

Dude.

Jim Montgomery.

I know.

Contacted him before game seven, and none of us wagged our finger.

Oh, I didn't. Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I also think it's. It's. You've been down that road. Find somebody else. Are you telling me there's only 40 guys? Is that what you're telling me?

Well, it's funny. The Leafs, they find themselves in this loop where they look at themselves and they go, wait a sec. Where are the Leafs? We have to get someone with tenure. We have to get the best available because we can afford the best available and we demand the best available. And, you know, that's why I was so shocked ten years ago now when they got Kyle Dubas. Cause I was like, this is the sort of guy they would never guess. And they're gonna develop him and it's gonna go really well. And I was right on some.

They didn't do that with Sheldon either. Sheldon is a first time NHL head coach.

You know what?

You're right.

Yeah.

And they. They didn't have that philosophy the last two hires. So why not try it this time?

Well, now I wonder if it works. Ever gonna do that again?

Yeah, I think they proved that. We tried it. Both of those guys were here for a long time. They didn't win. We also didn't give them the freedom to do whatever they wanted because the head honcho, up top, Brendan Shanahan, made most of the decisions. But the first year head coach thing, promoting the guy from literally the Toronto Marleys, the HL to the head coaching job, didn't work.

Yes.

Like he didn't get them over the hump.

Also, the Leafs had a lot less to lose back then. There's a lot more on the line now. You don't do a rookie head coach when you're in this part of the development. You're at risk the next five years. Are Matthews supposed to be Matthews best? Supposed to be Nylanders best? If. If you miss on this, and I because I named those two because I think they're the ones that are going to be around leading this team. You miss on those, are you? You get a bad coach. Now you're in. I mean, you are maligned forever.

We don't want to think about it this way, but the reality is Austin Matthews will not play hockey forever. There's going to come a day when Austin Matthews isn't a Toronto Maple Leaf anymore. And if you don't capitalize on having one of the greatest goal scorers of his generation on your team, like, you're going to miss out on a huge opportunity and it's going to be unforgivable for the franchise. And who knows where the franchise is going to be at five years from now if they don't win something and everybody moves on, like, are we going to go back to a rebuild?

Dude, that gave me heart palpitations. Matty just went. But you.

You look at.

You look at a situation where this San Jose sharks are right now. You look at the situation where the Chicago Blackhawks are right now when you have the Chicago Blackhawks. I shouldn't even use the example because they won, but, yeah, at least they won. The Shannon Sharks are, I think, the. The best example there of a team that was very competitive for years and years and years. They make a final. They're in the eastern. They're Western Conference finals every year. They're always in it. And then they just fall short.

And then.

Now, look, they're competing for the first overall pick. They get it finally. But you, after years of competitiveness, comes years of drought, and with the Leafs, you need to get one within your window, because eventually it's going to come the other side, where we're back in the. The sunken place.

Nope. Nope. What if I live in ignorance until that day arrives?

The Pittsburgh Penguins, they got theirs, and now they're on the outside. Look at him. No, like, if we want to throw in the teams that won, the Blackhawks are. Great example, too. You know, they win. They're in the sunken place, but nope.

Yeah.

And then what?

Conor Bedard and then Connor Bernard.

They're going to get one of the russian kids.

Yeah.

Already got a bunch of differences.

The NHL wants Chicago to do well. They're trying to rebuild this franchise. It's Toronto. They're going to be successful whether the Leafs are good or not. We've already seen that. You know, like, we've. We saw 15 years of the lease being bad. Do you think at any point Gary Bettman picked up the phone to the Maple Leafs or the pension plan when they owned that team and said, guys, guys, hello, hello. If you guys are good, imagine how much money you could make imagine not being terrible. And by the way, that's the way. That's the reason Shanahan's still here is the money they've made in the last twelve years. He's got a great. He's got a great ally in Gary Bettman. Because here's what will happen if the Leafs move on from Shanahan. Here's what's going to happen. The Keith Pelley will call Gary Betman and go, who do you think that's what they did when they were looking for a general manager?

All right, everyone, thank you for coming today. We'll open the floor to questions. I'd like to welcome the new president of the Toronto Maple Leafs, George Parris.

Do not bad. Surprise. God. Oh, God.

Finally get some calls.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

You think it works that way?

Yeah.

Finally get some calls.

Do not be surprised with the Leafs.

Hire Greg Campbell, too.

If the day. If the. If, if Shani is not successful in this next year and making this team much better, do not be surprised to see him back in an NHL head office role almost immediately.

I don't. I don't know.

No, no. Don't be surprised. I'm telling you.

Oh, fine. I'm telling you, like, as, like, is this advice you're giving me or like a command speaker?

One. I am commanding you to not be surprised. You're not allowed. I will come to your house, I will knock on your door and be like, are you surprised?

You're my friend. I want.

My patience is running thin with this organization and I hope so. Like, I hope it is. I hope the fans also feel that because it's been a long time and like I said, it's. You're not going to be a position where you have these collective individuals who haven't been able to get it done, but you clearly have something there in terms of the regular season success. And if they don't find a way to get it done, it's like, what do we do here?

Yep.

Here's what I don't want fans who watch the Leafs out of habit. Like, I keep coming back to that video of that guy and his name is every dad in the greater Toronto area. And like, classic dad build, too. Bald, goatee, pickle fingers. Real.

Drives a truck.

Pickle fingers. Yeah, probably. Probably drives a truck. Yeah, probably barbecues the shit out of anything you put in front of Saturday.

Smoker day with the thing.

You're talking about the. The flipper with the.

Oh, yeah. You stick on it hundred percent. You walk into the backyard and he greets you with, here comes trouble.

Yeah.

And he. He says, oh, yeah, let's go out there and have fun. Like, when he's watching Sheldon Keef's thing, dude, I have uncles like that. They watch them, and they're like, oh, yeah, there it is. There it is. Oh, yeah. There you go. God. Like, I never want to be that. But also, they hurt so much less. Right? They don't expect anything. They're given nothing, and they're not disappointed. Whereas I live and die for the stupid team, and it's a lot more dying than living, at least when it comes to the spring.

It was announced today that. And I'm just going to do a quick aside on this one, because I think it plays into the bigger picture. It was announced today that the Toronto market will get a WNBA franchise. This comes off the heels of the Scotiabank arena being sold out when the WNBA came to town about a year and a half ago, and it was questioned at the time at the board level, should we. Should we apply for a franchise? And it was turned down, and the reasons you were given for why it was turned down are probably incorrect. It was reported at the time that the reason was they couldn't fit a WNBA team into the. Into the schedule of Scotiabank arena. From what I understand and what I've heard, it's not true. It goes back to one of the telcos, and I have my suspicions. Which one? Fido saying, listen, no, there's two telcos. Bell, Rogers saying, listen, we have three properties that lose money already. Why would we bring on a fourth? Now, we've talked about this many, many times. The idea of a sports franchise losing money year over year is sort of thrown away when you realize that the value of the franchise tag itself goes up more than they lose month over month.

I'm not gonna lie. I don't understand that.

Okay, so I have.

Why does value go up if.

So, I have a coffee cup.

Money. Okay, you have a coffee.

I have a coffee cup. This coffee cup is worth, I don't know, what, $10? $10. Okay. This coffee cup's worth $10. To fill this coffee cup up, I have to spend a dollar a day on a coffee pod. Okay.

Oh, my God.

Right? But when I sell this coffee, I can only sell it for $0.80, so I'm losing $0.20, whatever. But each year, these. These mugs, which are very, very hard to find, there are very few mugs out there, right? Go up in price, because there's very few of them.

Oh, it's the rarity of the mug.

The rarity of the mug. Because there are only so many franchises available, because franchise values go up. So that is why, you know, if you've only got license for 32 of these mugs.

So it's just a hockey card.

Agreed. 100%. That's all. That's all it is.

Oh, my God. You put it in terms I can understand.

And so. So I'm getting back to this. Larry Tannenbaum last spring sold a piece of his share of maple leaf sports and entertainment and is on track to sell the rest of it in 2026 to fund his new venture, which is Kilmer Sports. Kilmer Sports has seen a couple of higher ranking executives at Maple Leaf Sports leave and go to Kilmer. And today it was announced by Shereen Ahmed of CBC that the WNBA is coming to kids to Canada, specifically Toronto, in 2026, under Larry Tannenbaum's other company. They're going to play at Coca Cola Coliseum. Okay? And the reason that the WNBA franchise was nixed again at Maple Leaf Sports and entertainment is because there is a group, and I believe it to be Rogers, that are fanatical cost savers. That's the way it's been phrased. They are fanatical about saving costs. Okay? They're fanatical about cutting back. So you'll think about Mike Babcock, or you think about the messiah, Jerry, which played Masai Jerry thing with Ed Rogers that played out in public. It wasn't that Ed didn't like Messiah's work. It's that he said, how is it that it's going to cost me twelve or $14 million a year to retain this guy?

Is there not somebody else that we could get at 8 million? That's the way that he. I think he makes something like that, or whatever the number is.

God, I wish I paid attention.

The point. The point is that I think last year, what happened in. At the Maple league sports and entertainment level, and I think you might see this coming up, is Kyle Dubas caught wind of the fact that, and this is, again, what I've heard and my belief, based on several people I've talked to, Maple Leaf sports and entertainment, specifically the Rogers portion of it, are not sold on the Maple Leafs having a president. Why do we have to have a president, which, you know, makes seven or $8 million a year? Because that's reportedly Shani's salary. Why do we have to have that when we could just have a CEO that oversees it all? General manager reports directly to the CEO, Kyle Dubas hearing that went well. I have a solution for you. Why don't I just report to you? And that power play is the reason that he was let go because Shani stopped him. Because basically Kyle was gonna make Shanahan's job null and void.

Allegedly.

And it may happen next year.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

All right. Because contracts. So for the WWE. WWE stuff it all weird.

It's weird how it plays.

Doug Smith did the reporting on it at the time when the bid for the WNBA team in Toronto was Nixon. He said it plainly. I'm gonna read directly from his article in the Toronto Star. He says sources who are granted anonymity in order to speak freely on the matter say the tense relationship between MLSE board member Edward Rogers and Raptors vice president Masai Ujiri was a factor in the decision to drop the bid for the WNBA team. They also cite Rogers ascension into in his family's tele telecommunications business, which is a part owner in MLSE. And then he continued to say about the money issue. We were talking about, if we don't want to mix words and we know which part, which side of the MLSC board is in favor of not spending money. It is the Rogers side.

He said.

There are several issues at play. The sources said the expected $50 million us price tag, payable in ten increments of $5,000,000.01, source said, was a factor, as were differences of opinion at the highest level of MLSC ownership. So Larry Tannenbaum wanted to do this. Rogers is flexing more muscle at the board level, and the organization isn't fully together on the issue.

And they have to get.

We know that they didn't want to spend the $50 million, and they're not a fan of Masai because of how the negotiations went with this contract.

And you need a net unanimous approval for this. This isn't like a democracy. It's like everybody's got to jump in and go, yeah, we're ready to do the WNBA.

I'm just imagining the infomercial like it's a couch for ten easy payments of.

$5 million, which is you can, which MLSC can do, I think.

Oh, yeah, that's not a lot of money to them. I think that they didn't want to spend it.

I think the pandemic spooked some sports organizations. I think that it was, it's underreported how hard it was on Maple Leaf Sports and entertainment and the ownership group there.

Well, you. It's all those people who go in the building they weren't there. You see?

Yeah. And so I think that, that. I think that may have led to it. But anyway, long story short, I think that Kyle probably caught wind that Rogers wasn't thrilled with having that position in the first place.

I can imagine that conversation. Like, all right, we got a guy making like six mil or whatever Babcock was making, and they're looking at how to cut costs, and his name comes up. It's like, all right, so what does this guy do here? Well, he's a fired guy. He does not work here.

Yeah.

Oh, so we can't cut him? Who the hell fired him? Who the hell hired him? Who made this dumbass decision? I could just imagine that in the, in the boardrooms.

Absolutely.

That are too high to see from the ground.

Absolutely. Okay, so moving on, unless you guys have anything else you want to add on the leafs.

Go leaves.

Okay.

Go leaves.

Go. Golisko. Like that can't wait till next season.

Game one.

Me too.

Puck drop.

October 10 or whatever.

We're already looking forward to next year because they're team eliminated. Let's go.

It's coming home. It's coming home.

Playing a parade, Sammy. Start.

What are you giggling at?

What was that? Was. That's England's World cup one.

Yes.

How did that go?

I may or may not have in laws who sang that in a mocking way a lot.

We haven't played Sheldon Keef's video. Do we want to? I figure everybody's seen it, but you want to play it.

Let's play it.

And then what? And then we'll talk about the games.

What a nice man.

Let's talk about Sheldon Keith. Because this, you know, I think that leaf fans, and rightfully so, what, what insights did you have as Sheldon Keef as a person? Really? Like you didn't know much because he's your coach and that's all you know about. But this video is taken, I believe, in Freddo Lake, Ontario. It's very serene. He makes a good. That's a good background. He picked right there. Not even a boat or barely any clouds in sight. And it was a sunny, beautiful day in Toronto yesterday. Have a listen to 1 minute and 53 seconds. As Sheldon keeps saying goodbye, east nation.

Time has come to say goodbye. Writing down a note and sending it out didn't seem like enough. And I do plan on taking a little break from media. So here I am. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity to coach the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's a dream come true for a boy from Brampton. I want to thank Kyle Dubas, Lou Lamorello, Brad Treliving, Brandon Pridham, Brendan Shanahan, Larry Tannenbaum and the MLSC board for giving me this opportunity to work with the Marleys and Leafs. I didn't get it done in the playoffs. I didn't help push our team over the line and deliver. I accept responsibility for that. No excuses. That's the job. I didn't get it done. It's the reality of the business and I accept it. To the players, I appreciate all your efforts, your talents and your work ethic made me look good on a lot of nights. Anyone who suited up for blue and white, I appreciate you. To the support staff of the Maple Leafs. You're tremendous people and you're elite at what you do. Players and support staff will drive the team. Team to success. I believe it will win Leafs nation.

You deserve your Stanley cup. Your passion at home and on the road is unmatched. It's an incredible honor to coach the Maple Leafs, to try to deliver for you. To the media that had to deal with you every single day. Sometimes twice a day, three times a day. I appreciate your process. I respected the fact that you're honest and fair and had a job to do. I hope you appreciated the fact that I helped you do it. I don't know what comes next, but I know I'll be ready for it. In the meantime, I'll enjoy giving my family the time that they deserve. Love you all and be well.

I mean, that's the new standard, right?

Like, yeah, it was great.

Like, that's incredible. I think it was. Ryan Hanna from the winged wheel was just like, God, that just the serene energy that washes over someone when they're no longer with the Leafs is really palpable. In this video, he looked like he just got.

Had the weight of the world taken off of his shoulders.

Yeah, listen, like, oh, my goodness. I think if he had his way, he'd still be the coach of the Leafs, but boy, does that guy look content.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

That is no longer my problem.

Yeah, yeah. He's jumping on a plane to Pittsburgh tonight. And yes, Susie's going to New Jersey. He's going to Pittsburgh. You watch.

Maybe with a pit stop in New Jersey. He. He got such a nice send off, too. Like, brad drilling. Like, went out of his way. Talk about what a good person. Like, he's a good coach. This is good coach. This is a good coach. And I wanted to be like, all right, Brad. Like, people are going to start to think you did a stupid thing. Like, if you keep saying that, but, like, you know, a lot of people didn't like the job he did. I do think it was time, and I don't think when a coach gets fired, it means they're a bad coach. There are lots of great coaches, Stanley cup winning coaches, multiple time Stanley cup winning coaches who get fired. John Cooper's probably going to get fired one day, you know, unless he stays with Tampa for 25 years.

Like Rod Brindemore might. Might be this year, and he won't be fired. It'll just be because the team goes, nah.

Yeah, it's.

We're not going to pay you because we're cheap.

I'm trying to think of someone who was with their team for, like, 15 or more years, and the only guy I can name in recent memory anyway, is Barry trots with the preds. That's it. I think he's. He's a good coach. He's gonna go somewhere. He's gonna do well. The Leafs need to take what he taught them, and they need a new voice to teach them some new things. It wasn't working.

Yep.

It wasn't working. He made no excuses for it. And, you know, I wonder, you know, it obviously hurts to not get it done, and there's no fulfillment there, but I think it's okay to fail in life. As long as you left nothing, no stone unturned, you did everything you possibly could. And, I mean, that's a guy that contentment on him suggests. You know what, guys? I emptied the tank. Couldn't get it done. It's time to move on, Justin.

You also gotta be very content when you're getting paid millions of dollars to sit on your butt.

That, too.

It's not a bad situation to be in. And Justin Fisher sent along a note of the longest tenured coaches in the big four sports. I'm gonna read them off for you. 1996, the longest tenured head coach just by far, Greg Pockwich Popovich in San Antonio. Then we got Mike Tomlin. Adams guy in Pittsburgh. Mike Tomlin, Pittsburgh hit Steelers head coach.

Steelers fans don't always love Mike Tomlin.

But I. John Harbaugh, the Baltimore Ravens head coach, 2008. Eric Spoelstra, 2008 as well. Miami Heats head coach. And then after Spoelstra, John Cooper. 2013. The 1234, 5th longest tenured coach in the four major professional pro sports.

I do want to throw out there the Mike Tomlin one is an asterisk because he was the assistant coach under Bill Cowper when. When the Steelers won their first Super bowl since the seventies in 2006. Cower was the coach. Is that.

This is. It says January 2007.

Okay, there you go. I just want to make sure. Cause he retired after that. I want to make sure I heard the date wrong. Another thing Justin has sent along and I have seen as well, is hearing that the Devils, according to Pierre LeBrun, have sought and received permission to speak with Sheldon Keef. And I was kidding when I said that just now. That's just.

It's been rumored, I think. No head coach. Oh yeah.

According to Jeff Merrick, Marner Tavares and Riley are, quote on the table, while Matthews and Nylander are untouchable.

Riley.

Wow. I think that's a relevant conversation.

Can I make a point about the Devils? Sheldon Keef is inheriting Jack Hughes, a. Well, Jack Hughes, an extremely talented, young, kind of soft team. I'm fascinated to see what he does with it.

Well, he's going to coach Sheldon key or he's going to coach Sidney Crosby next year.

No, he's going to the devil.

I think the Devils wanted Sullivan. I think they were interested in Mike Sullivan.

Yeah, well, I think.

Go ahead.

I think Sheldon Keef would be a perfect coach in New Jersey for ownership itself. The idea that you don't have to pay him as much because the Leafs can just cut the rest of that salary that you would have paid.

Oh, they would have loved that.

Nice little kickback there. But Sheldon Keef, with his experience, he's gained in Toronto, I think will be the perfect guy to take the young, soft players in New Jersey to the next level. He knows what Toronto was missing with hindsight and he can get them to back to where they were in 2023 and not what we saw in 2024.

All he has to do is say, look at these guys. You want to be these guys? That's what happens. Better listen to me. Better listen to me. You should listen to me. I might know what I'm talking about. Do you want to be these guys? You don't be these guys. Be these guys. I'm telling you. All he has to do is show them Leaf's footage. What happens when you don't listen?

With the Morgan Riley being on the block thing, I think it's a important thing to note that you look at the last few Stanley cup winners. What was the last time you had a Stanley cup winner who did not have a top five defenseman in their lineup?

A top five?

Yeah.

I'm counting. I'm counting Petroni headman. I'm counting Kale Makar. And then we go back to Petro in 2019. Like, what's the last. What's the last team that didn't have it?

The Caps had? I guess their best guy would have been John Carlson.

That's probably our last team. Yeah, 20.

Yeah, but that's John Carlson.

So, like, I mean, he was still rocking, like, 830 goals. Yeah.

You need. You need, like, I guess a marquee defenseman.

That's something the Leafs have lacked through this entire stretch here. And so I think the idea would be to keep Riley and you move a piece like Marner to get that marquee name back. But I don't think it's about creating stuff on the edges anymore. I think it's. Go get a name. A big puck moving defenseman. Somebody who's marquis.

See, now you got me thinking going back even further.

Yeah.

Letang. Latang.

Latang. Latang. What's the last team?

Latang. Latang. Chicago, 2015.

Keith.

Well, Keith Seabrook Doughty.

Doughty, yeah. Keith Seabrook Doughty. Keith Seabrook, or.

No, no, no.

Sorry. Chara. Keith Seabrook. Latang, zero nine. Latang, zero eight. Lindstrom, zero seven. Niedermeyer. Pronger.

Oh, God.

So zero six. I'm trying to remember who the Hurricanes really had. Like, they had guys like Glenn Wesley.

They were a bit of an anomaly.

Go look at that team on paper.

I know, but it's also so close.

To the lockout where the game changed that. Like, it's. It's a different kind of hockey. A different brand of hockey. But when I did it in my head, I was like, since 2018? Cause I was like, where do we put John Carlson in that category? I was like, if you want to have one of these great Stanley cup winning teams, you need that guy.

Mm hmm.

So maybe not, like, top five might be aggressive, but no, out of that list, who's not top five?

I mean.

Carlson.

Yeah.

So you went back to 2007. If we stop at the Hurricanes, one team doesn't have the top five, would.

Latang still have been top five in 2016 and 17?

Litang's top ten all time amongst offensemen.

No.

For the Penguins.

Yeah.

Top 15. Top 20.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, I'm trying to. You're asking me to go back, you know, years. Right. So it's trying to think, all right, who was better than him back then? Makar wasn't in the league. Char was getting pretty old, but he was pretty good. You know, it's. I understand what you're saying. Well, and, you know, power play needs to be better for the leafs. It was good in that one series against Tampa that they won. You know who else was friggin unreal? Riley.

Yeah, he was good last year.

It's the best performance they've ever got out of him. And they won a series.

He's a tier under where I'd want my number one defenseman to be. I think they lack a true number one star defenseman. And I think that for me, if I was gming the Toronto Maple lease, that would be my number one priority.

And you know, the great thing about top defensemen is they're out there.

Well, I was gonna say so. So many of them mentioned are draft picks.

You have a guy named Mitch Marner that you can move.

Yep.

Who is a star player.

Yep. Yep.

You can move him. You might want to ask Mitch.

Get him on the phone, I'll tell you guys.

Text them.

Guys, don't you play into that.

Listen, I think so too, Adam.

Don't you play into that.

Do you think that the Leafs can get the Mitch Marnard wave is no move?

Yes, and I think they will. And I think he's. He. I would. I would guess that he's ready.

Why are you so confident in that opinion?

Well, because life can be pretty uncomfortable when you play for a team that doesn't want you. And players have feelings. And if you get out on the ice next year and you have not. Wait, look it. Okay, people, forget this. I'm going to bring you back to my era. Okay? Trade deadline 2007. Maybe 2008. Toronto Maple Leafs have the best player in franchise history, Matt Sindee.

I gotta say 2008.

And Matt's is six foot four. God. And even in the dead puck era, scored a lot of points for the Leafs and Matt's. The Leafs try to trade Matt's, and it turns out to be for, like, Jeff Carter and a first round pick from the Philadelphia Flyers. And Matt says no, and he's well within his rights to do that. People forget this because time heals. But do you think the Toronto Maple Leafs fans reacted well to that? Absolutely not. It took a couple of years, even for Matt's. Probably more than a couple of years.

I think it soured the relationship for a while.

It soured the relate. Matt was pissed. The Leafs were pissed. Leaf fans were really pissed. Why are you staying here, Matt? Well, it's my contractual right. Yeah, but why are you staying here? You know we're not going anywhere. Why can't you help us with the future, Matt? Go have a good run with Philadelphia. Didn't do it. Whatever his reasons were, were his reasons. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, he'll move it. I don't know about Tavares. Tavares, that's the wild card for me. I really, really, I don't even know if Morgan Riley has no trade. I have no idea.

But, but family man.

But Riley does. Here's the thing. Neither of these guys will move until after July 1. And the reason for that is that after July 1, the Leafs have paid out both of their bonuses to the max. I think. I think Tavares will make 900 less.

Than a million dollars after July 1.

Mitch is seven two, 5 million in signing bonus and his base salary, like, the actual cash that the, that team has to pay is 775.

So the, the way it was phrased to me by somebody who would know when we talk about moving Mitch Marner is so people are like, oh, the Leafs are going to lose the Mitch Marner trade. No, they're not. 31 teams are calling about Mitch Marner. The other thing is he gets to pick the one. He gets to pick the one. Yeah, but all the packages will be good. And are they going to come out as the big winner in this trade? Maybe not, but I think they're getting a significant asset back. And if you are a team making this case internally, even if you're a budget strap team, you're getting Mitch Marner for 900 grand and then potentially for eight more years. So whatever your overall number is that you're paying Mitch, the way they'll look at it internally is, okay, let's say it costs $88 million to retain Mitch. Okay, let's say that's what the number is. I'm sure it'll be closer to 100. Maybe it's $100 million. That $100 million isn't over eight years, it's actually over nine. That's how they'll look at it internally is we got Mitch for free one of these years.

So actually the average is further down for us. That's how they look at it. And, and the same thing with John Tavares. John Tavares. His, his cap is what his cap is. People like, oh, he's going to make. No, no, he's not going to make. The Leafs are going to pay him his bonus July 1, and then if he agrees to move, some team is going to get him for $900,000 and guess what? They get to hit the cap floor. Fabulous. Fabulous. I think with Tavares, if that deal happens, you're going to see him go to a major, a major franchise with a contract that does not want, that they don't want to pay. That's ltir. And one thing that Mark Antoine and Arp and Bas who they brought up on theirs is Montreal would sure love to get out of paying carry Price. Toronto, it doesn't matter. And for anybody that doesn't think John would do that, John did meet with them. They were one of the six teams he would have agreed to go to.

And no, didn't he not take the meeting?

Oh, did he not take the me or whatever? There was. There was real interest on that.

There was interest.

I don't know.

Maybe he didn't say.

He said, nah, pretty sure he said goal leaf. Well, he said go leafs. Go to everybody. So don't like. And maybe Montreal is not the destination but you could see how teams would look at that. And the teams don't have the leafs I think are clear of their ltir as of this spring.

Yeah, Tavares didn't meet with the Canadians.

There you go.

Lol.

Well, they would keep him close to southern Ontario if he wanted to stay.

I think if you can afford a plane, everything's close to southern Australia. Jesse, why are you zooming?

Why are you picking on tavares nose? And that's not to say John's a bad guy, but change needs to happen. This is what it is. I'm curious. The one I'm most curious about is Morgan Riley. That's the one I'm most interested in. You know, that's the. To me has.

He's in the second year of what is eight year contract and he does have a no move clause.

Oh boy.

So Morgan Riley would be a little tough to move. But I think if you pair Morgan Riley with something, I think we got something cooking.

That's an enormous friggin deal.

Nah, it'd be fun.

Yeah, it'd be fun. All right.

Going with the button.

Steve one way is $20 million in cap coming the other way. Like. I don't know. It's fascinating. Summer.

I think it's very possible to make a trade.

I do too. Don't go look at the Matthew Kachuk trade. Anyway.

Everything, it looked good on paper. It did. 100 something point guy, 70 assist guy. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, shall we move on?

We have to end the show.

Okay. We didn't have time for the press conference. Sorry, guys.

We didn't get to the other series. We didn't get to the Carolina sweep of canes. We didn't get to the questions that you promised last episode.

I know. I'm sorry. There was a big thing that happened, right?

Yeah, big thing.

It's not my fault you can't lay that up my. All three of us share responsibility here.

Maddie, put Mars his face back on the screen for no reason.

Here it is. No, we're not going to pick his nose.

Not picking his nose.

Fire the intro. The extro. Do not pick John Tavares his nose. Please, Jesse, you not to give him credit. He had his nose hair trimmed that day.

Why are you rubbing his teeth? Oh, yeah, stop rubbing his toaster.

He looks so young and fresh in that picture.

Eh, I can't get closer. Oh, I can.

Strong dude.

Stop it, Steve. The Steve Dangle podcast. Follow the guys on Twitter. Steve Dangle, Adam Wylde and Essie Blake.

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