This is Agent provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wilde. Welcome to the season wrap up of the 23 24 NHL season and the third season of agent provocateur Adam Wild. You are a sight for sore eyes. How are you?

I'm good. I've missed you. I feel like the last. What has it been, two, three weeks since we talked last? A lot's happened. We've had draft, free agency, Stanley cup finals. Been a lot of things.

It's been a busy couple of weeks. And I've missed you too, buddy.

Yeah. And I got to tell you, I'm looking at Puckpedia right now, and I'm looking at all the 2024 clientele under the name Alan Walsh. And we're looking at something like over $150 million in contracts signed. How do you feel today, July 11, as of this recording about all the work that you've done with your clients in the last couple of weeks? Because that's a lot of work.

It's a lot of work. It was. There was a crazy period of time between being in Vegas leading up to the draft and then needing to get out of Vegas as quickly as possible the moment the draft ended and get back to LA and set up and be ready and have 24 hours before free agency starts. The turnaround. I have never heard so many general managers and people working with teams. Everyone was unhappy with the schedule coming from the end of the finals to the draft to free agency. And everyone I talked to who was complaining about it, I said, well, why don't you do something about it? I mean, every GM I'm talking to is saying it's insane. They don't like it. They don't ever want this to happen again. And they all shrug their shoulders and say, I don't know.

So isn't that the way though? It just feels very NHL.

Very NHL, very on brand.

I don't think that anybody liked it, to be honest. Like in terms of. I mean, it was exciting as a fan because you're watching right up till game seven of the finals, which, you know, the NHL never banks on it going to the game, to game seven, but it's great when it does. It was a fantastic final. But you know what I couldn't figure out, Alan, even going back to October last year is Canadian thanksgiving is like the first or second weekend in October, and they didn't start the season until the Tuesday afterwards. And I thought, what a blown opportunity. Everybody's with their families, they're at home. You're with a bunch of in laws that maybe you don't want to talk to the whole time, throw on a hockey game. You know, you're letting the MLB just steal that weekend. It's a perfect ratings opening weekend and it looks like they're going to do that a little bit this year. And it looks like there's something Pierre LeBrun, I think, was tweeting about it having, having the season start just a little bit earlier, knocking the preseason scam, preseason games down to four rather than some teams, eight or six.

What do you think about moving that start time up a little bit?

Well, they have to accommodate the four nations face off, right. Otherwise, otherwise. And that's going to be in February. Otherwise we're going to play hockey until potentially July and we can never do that again. I mean, when it's 90 degrees outside in different cities and people's summers have started, I think it's not ideal for hockey, for NHL hockey, for NHL playoff hockey. I think that if there's a way to have the season end, no later, and I mean by the end, the end of the Stanley cup finals by the end of the first week in June at the latest, that's something that I think everybody would love to see, but it would mean starting the season earlier. And I don't know what kind of appetite various people have for that. It's been talked about, it's been debated. There's never been much traction to do anything in regards to changing it.

Right. And like, one of the things that I think a lot of people can understand is like why, especially for like the team, like the Leafs, eight preseason games for what? For what really other than gate. You know, it feels like a waste of September. You could do training camp in a lot shorter period of time, could you not?

There's no question training camps are too long and we're playing too many preseason games. I think that in the past, historically, we all know preseason was very much about getting into shape for the season and having some sort of competition to make the team. I think there's a lot less internal competition actually taking place that is not definitively decided by a performance in preseason. And you can have a maximum of five preseason games or four preseason games and literally shorten training camp by a week. And that week is a valuable week. Maybe not at the very beginning, but it's a very valuable week at the end. And yes, and that's something where we can all buy ourselves an extra week from. I mean, we had the NHL awards in Vegas and the Stanley cup parade the day after.

That's crazy.

That should never happen. That should never happen.

And honestly, Alan, just from a. From a fan perspective of somebody who wasn't there this year, the NHL awards went, like, virtually there. Nobody even noticed them. And, oh, I guess they're coming for you. Please are coming up to Alan Walsh. No, I. They were a virtual, like, okay, I saw the. Who won on instagram. Like, that's. That's where they factored in because there was no space to breathe. Ultimately, when it comes to the Stanley cup and draft and free agency, the NHL awards are like the least of a priority. But they should be fun. They should be funny and celebrity and that sort of thing. And it seems like they really missed with that this year, if anybody even watched them. It just didn't seem to go off that well.

Has there ever been an NHL award show that. That. That went off well?

No.

I mean, historically, they have sea level hosts and who's ever writing the material. There's a cold place in hell for those people because it is a painful, painful exercise to sit there and listen to some of the nonsense that goes on at these awards. It could be so much better by not trying to emulate the ESPYs or other sports, focusing more on the players and having just someone. It could be. It doesn't have to be a celebrity acting as the host. And you don't need a comedy routine. You don't need. Just get to the business. Get to the business. Showcase the players. There is a lack of understanding that the players are the game. And the more you market around the players, the more you showcase who these players are. And why not do features on the players and show that to the crowd in a 62nd clip before going into the awards, do something more to like, okay, we know who these players are. Cause we've watched them play now, who are they really? And use the awards for that purpose instead of some cheesy d level imitation of the ESPYs.

Right, right. And, you know, I think we've come away from. Because, you know, you and I did a show together in Montreal when the draft was there. We did a show together in Montreal when the draft was there. We. Unfortunately, I didn't make it down to Vegas this year, but you were there. Um, and this year, you know, every time we've walked away from the draft, it's been the same thing. Right. Um. Uh, before this year, it's. But it's like, man, what a. It feels like a. Just a really bad corporate event that happens to be live streamed. Right. You know, when. When you look at the first round of the draft, when you compare that with the NBA, the NFL, which is so exciting, it seems like they really made an effort this year in Vegas to make it exciting. Now it's still 4 hours long. It's way too long. But when, you know, when you were there in the sphere and you're watching, how did you feel the NHL draft went off?

I don't know what it looked like on tv. Cause I was there live. But being inside the sphere, the facility, the $2.8 billion facility is an absolute wonder. And being inside and seeing the graphics and some of the things that were put together and having it come up over you and around you and also somewhat behind you, it was just incredible to be physically inside. And I know the players and the players families were equally not just impressed, but wowed by the entire event. It was very successful. It was, like I said, it was a wonder. It was an absolute wonder to be inside it. And if the. The powers that be had any sense at all. And, you know, there's this talk about now decentralizing the draft, and that was the last real NHL draft as we know it. Vegas should be the per the sphere. If it's possible to make that deal with Jim Dolan, the owner of the New York Rangers, who built and owns the sphere. Hint, hint, hint, the sphere should be the permanent home of the draft.

Yes.

And that would really be something.

Yes, it would be. And I think what it is is if they can find a way to sharpen up the time a little bit. Get it. I know there's 32 teams. I know there's a clock. The clock, by the way, meant for nothing on tv. It looked, everything looked visually really stunning. But after about 120 minutes of television, you get a little tired. You know, you kind of, like, I. And I, and, you know, the draft is for the hardcore. It's for the most ardent fans who are like, I've never seen most of these guys play, but damn it, I still care enough to watch right down to pick 32. I feel like if they had an element of, let's keep this moving, let's make that. You know, Nashville's now on the clock. Montreal is now on the clock. That three minutes should be actually three minutes, not three minutes. And Celine Dion walks up and takes three minutes. It's got to be three minutes. You have three minutes to make the pick. And Celine can make her way up in the midst of that because I thought the stunt casting was fun. Like, it was fun to see.

It was fun to see her. It was fun to, to see Joe Thornton and some of these other people come out, but it just adds another five, six minutes to things when, when ultimately, and again, I guess I'm looking at this from a, you know, an entertainment point of view. You got to sharpen that stuff up. We were talking about, we're talking about a television show, a television product that's longer than Lord of the Rings. Like that. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's. That's too long. That's too long.

Yeah. What was, the Irishman was almost 4 hours long.

It was.

There we go.

That was also very long. Yeah. You know what? But otherwise, it was a, I felt like, wow. Watching, watching from where we were watching in Toronto. A big step up in terms of entertainment value. It seems like the NHL actually got it. Like, oh, we could make money off this event. We never thought about that.

And they did because they were selling tickets to the public at $110 a ticket. And every draft that I can recall, the tickets were all free. And there were some drafts that were only, the building was only half full because Gary likes putting the draft into non traditional cities as a reward to a particular owner for doing something for Gary. For Gary. Yeah, it's an award. There was a lot of talk that the next NHL draft was going to be in Denver and Colorado was set to host it. There was a lot of talk behind the scenes. And when the GM's voted to decentralize at the GM meeting midway through the season, that obviously was off the table. It'll be interesting to see what they do now because almost every GM I talked to was not in favor of decentralizing the draft. And I said to many of them, now, wait a second. The vote I heard was 28 to four in favor of decentralizing the draft. And I asked, guys, did you vote to decentralize? Yeah. Why? Well, we all thought that's what Gary wanted, so we all voted to do that. And I'm like, but you didn't really want that.

No. I'm like, yeah, talk about, you know, another typical story of how the NHL is run behind the scenes, right? Crazy.

Crazy. Well, and I don't think you need to decentralize to make the product good. We saw that this year. The product improved vastly. But it's got to be at a party location. It should be in Vegas or New York or LA, somewhere with some glitz and some glamor. Miami beach, wherever you want it to be. It's got to be somewhere cool. I think this fear is the obvious place, but that, that's just me now. Alan, going through, I'm looking through your, and I mentioned this off the top of the show. I'm looking through the new contract that, that were signed for you just this year. And actually, you know what? Maybe we should start with the draft. I want to start with the draft. First off, Miroslav Helenka, because I'm a Toronto Maple Leaf fan.

Yeah.

Fifth round, 151st overall. He is now a Toronto Maple Leaf system player. What do we need to know about this guy? Forget, forget Adam Uracek. Let's talk about Miroslav Helinka.

All right. There was a huge amount of buzz around Miroslav in Czech. He played in the czech extra league last season. There was a constant parade of scouts coming to see him play. NHL scouts, NHL scouts from North America coming to see him play. He was interviewed by 28 teams in czech republic before the draft. There was. We knew he was going to go somewhere in the middle rounds, and I frankly think the Leafs got a great pick. You probably heard and saw some of the positive buzz around him from his performance and development camp. Right after the draft, he came into Toronto. He doesn't speak English very well, went out in the scrimmage and scored two very nice goals and had everybody talking about him. A lot of people on the leaf staff, the development staff and in management were sending me messages saying, like, wow, we can't believe we got him in the fifth round. And this kid is looking, it is summer hockey, but this kid is looking like he's a real player and there's a lot of excitement about him. He's likely going to Edmonton, who holds his rights in the CHL.

They drafted him in the import draft, and he's likely going there and will fly his trade and continue his development in the Western Hockey League.

Do you like the WHL for development of young players?

I do, but it's not really leagues that I focus on. It's individual clubs. So Adam Jeko, who was drafted by St. Louis in the third round this year, came over and played in Edmonton in the Western Hockey League last year. And from their general manager, Kurt Hill, to just the organization is owned by the Oilers, so they share training staff, medical staff. In many ways, the players with the oil kings are exposed to the players with the Oilers. It's very much a very professionally run organization that has a track record of developing players. I was very happy with Adam Jekyll's development in Edmonton last year. So with that familiarity, you're really happy to see them draft one of your players again in the import draft and have them come over and play there. So there are other teams in the Western Hockey League and other organizations across the CHL. I wouldn't send my poodle to to go play hockey, right? And it's just a fact. So I don't really focus on the league, I focus on individual clubs.

And Adam Urchek, obviously going to the St. Louis Blues, going high. I know there were some teams in the late teens, early twenties who were pretty disappointed that he didn't fall to them. There are rumors today that he will be joining an OHL franchise. Can you confirm or deny or do you have no comment?

So Adam was drafted in the import draft last season by Brantford. They have a fabulous general manager, Matt Turek, and Branford is owned by Michael Andlouer, the owner of the Ottawa Senators. Before being in Brantford, they were in Hamilton for several years. Steve Staos was the general manager. I worked really closely with them and had several players like Jan Yanik and Jan Meshak come in and play for them and have fabulous experiences there in development and in the way they were cared for. And the organization is continuing along those lines. So it's a great place for a european player to come over and play. They have all the resources, they give you all the tools. They have a fabulous program. NHL teams look favorably upon Brantford as a great place to develop their top prospects. And while nothing is definitive right now, we still have a training camp and Adam Uracek is going to go to the Blues rookie camp and then possibly onto their big camp and maybe then to their AHL camp with Springfield. So Trini camps will decide ultimately where he ends up playing. But as of now, there's a strong likelihood he will end up in Brantford for next season and I couldn't be happier about it.

That's awesome. I got to say, personally, because of our Montreal experience, when David Yurczyk was drafted by the Columbus Blue Jackets, we were lucky enough to meet David in person. Meet his father. I don't believe Adam was there. At least he wasn't there when we met him. We met David and his dad. His father must be their father, excuse me, must be over the moon.

David and Adam have amazing, amazing family. Mom and dad are awesome people and we experienced the draft together for David in Montreal in 2022. And we went out afterwards and you were with us and that was a great evening. Great evening with a several pivots for those of you who have a czech english translator available, that's beer.

Yes.

And there was a lot of that flowing that night. It was a very memorable night. The dad was in a great mood, obviously with the son going six overall. Now we go to Vegas. He has another son two years later, drafted in the first round, 16th overall. They're overjoyed and they're such humble, wonderful people. I got to also enjoy a very special time with them in Columbus. We all flew in together, they from Czech and I came in from LA when David played his first NHL game and we were there for that. And that was also a great moment. I have been very fortunate and blessed to be with parents and players. The night before a player is about to play his first NHL game and those have been. Those moments have been amongst the greatest highlights of my professional life. There was a moment that I witnessed between Jonathan Huberto and his father before he played his first NHL game with the Florida Panthers. They were at a campsite. The dad had brought a camper from Montreal down to Fort Lauderdale. And we all went out for dinner and I was driving Jonathan back to the hotel around nine, nine thirty pm.

And we went to the campsite and dropped the parents off. And there was a moment where the dad and Jonathan were standing and shared a few words with each other and hugged. And the dad was filled with pride and joy knowing that his son's dream of being an NHL player was upon all of them as a family. They had something like 40 family members had flown in for the game. And I just remember sitting back and looking at the exchange and having chills run through my body and thinking, wow, what a moment. And what a moment to witness amongst people you really care about and are involved with and work with. What a moment. And there have been several moments like that over the years where the night before is always a very special night.

It's. I mean, I can't imagine what it would be like as a parent seeing it even once. But, you know, for the euro checks, to see it twice, I mean, it's, it was, it's spectacular. And so congratulations to them. And Jonathan Huberto, who was a guest on this show, I can only imagine he's got a pretty great family as well. He couldn't be a nicer guy.

Incredible family.

Yeah.

Incredible family.

Really great. And Alan, you know, I'm looking at these, these contracts and each of them, you know, the ones that you signed, tell the story. We had Philip Roenick on. You know, we've had Sean Dursey on, but this was, this was LA. Sean Dursey. Now he's Arizona and now Utah HC Sean Dursey. $6 million a year. Pretty cool, pretty exciting. How do you think he received the news and how did you, did you guys high five after the contract extension? Tell me a little bit about how that all went down, if you can.

Well, we had been negotiating for a while and it was clear from the outset that Utah was very focused on bringing Sean back. He was a restricted free agent with rights to salary arbitration. They clearly saw him as a core player and approached the negotiation in a very respectful, collegial way in that they were very upfront and I very much respected the approach of Bill Armstrong and David Ludwig in the way that they had just sat down and said, we see Sean as a core player. We love his attitude, we love his spirit, we love his drive. He had a 40 point season as a right shot defenseman amongst the top 25 scoring defensemen in the NHL. He played at a very high level and they made it very clear they still think Sean has a lot of growth and development ahead of him and that he's just scratching the surface of what he will become. And I think part of that is reflective. In the contract going four years, there was a lot of discussion about term. There was not a negative word or criticism of him or his play at all generated during any of our discussions.

It was a very academic discussion using comparables and using where the cap is now, where the cap was over the last three, four years with some of the comparables and where we know the cap is going to go with it going next offseason to approximately 97 and then the year after up over 100 million. So going from 88 to 93 to 97 to over 100 million over four years. So 93, 97 and then into the hundreds over the next four years gives you a cap percentage. You can go back to now and insert into comparables and you're getting a whole new set of numbers as opposed to a flat captain over four years where salaries remain stagnant. And NHL teams spent a good amount of their time trying to figure out how to put 18 plus two players on the ice and how to have a 23 man roster. And many teams were forced to go down to 20 or 21 players because they didn't have the cap space to carry 23.

That's right. Yep. Absolutely. And Alan, I have to say, like from a team perspective, and you could tell me if I'm crazy here. It sounds because the cap, we're talking about an almost $20 million jump in the next four years, right? Like we were 83 and a half last year we're 88, we're suspecting in two more years we're going to be up near 100. So it's, you know, $15 to $18 million depending upon where it lands. It almost makes it difficult for teams, and I don't want to say in all cases to sign bad contracts because of the cap rise. It's almost like it's flipped on its head because there used to be, it used to be, oh my, you gave him too much term and oh, my God, you gave him too much money. With the capex going up so much after Covid, it seems like it's the players that might sign for too little if they sign for too long, too soon. What are your thoughts as an agent, especially with younger players? You're seeing a lot of teams take calculated risk. You are. I, Slopkowski signed a big long term deal. Jake Sanderson.

Last summer. The Leafs took a chance with Joseph Wohl, even though he's played like 50 career games. What, how would you approach that? You've got a lot of young guys entering that kind of, that, that part of their, their contract. Do you, would you say keep it short because the contract's going or the salary caps going up, or is it always better to just lock in the money and go?

So the NBA, I always look to the NBA because they're always light years ahead of the NHL in almost every single manner. And the NBA, it's timely you ask that question has just completed and is yet to be officially announced, but it's coming. A new $76 billion deals, various rights deals. There's going to be three of them, a, b and C package. The number is an astronomical number. And the NBA salary cap, which has already jumped by huge amounts year over year based on the previous rights deal, is about to go to Pluto. Right. It's going into another stratosphere.

You're going to have players that make more than the entire NHL roster. Right. Like, it's.

Absolutely, absolutely. And what you saw happen in the NHL, in an environment of the cap jumping massive amounts year over year, is the best players becoming free agents only wanting to sign for one or two years. And the reason why is they would then be able to come back to the market in a year or two and once again get top of the market money as opposed to being locked in for, you know, what was typical in the NBA back then, you know, seven eight year deals. And by year three or four, the player was realizing he's now underpaid versus the other star players approaching free agency. So a one or two year deal was a way for players to capture their true market value in an environment of the cap exploding year over year over year. On the other side of the equation, which you brought up, is security.

Yes.

And, you know, if you're talking about 50 million or 60 million or 65 million, you know, does the player want to lock in that security? Not really an issue if you have a two year deal at $35 million a year. Right, right. So a NBA player is not as motivated to sign a long term deal for secure. I'm talking about now, the stars that drive the game.

Yeah.

Right.

So you're talking like LeBron, Kyrie, like big, big names, Paul, George, even a.

Wider network of, I'd say I put like 30 players into that top player category, you know, one or two players per team. But those guys typically now signed two year deals. And, and they have, after two years, the security, the lifetime security where they are more focused and it's more ingrained into their culture as players to want to capture top of the market money each time they come up as a free agent.

Right.

Now, is that going to happen in hockey? I think it will. And I think that as the cap reaches up over 100 million and as NHL players start earning the top players, 1718 $20 million a year and it's coming. It's a matter of time, but it's coming. And when players start going into that area, you know, a player at 26, 27, 28 becoming a free agent, we will see a trend toward those players only wanting to do a two year deal, a two year, $35 million deal, two year, $40 million deal, and then thinking, hey, in two years, with the cap going up a significant amount each year, I can go back to the market and I can capture my market value again.

Right, right. Well, I think we've only seen it really with one that I can think of is Vladisov Gabrikov in LA. I think he signed a two year deal when he could have signed for six. And he signed it going into last year's free agency knowing full well what was going to happen to the cap over the next two years. So he's got one more year, and he's going to be walking into a world that is, you know, there's $10 million more for each team to spend than, than when he signed. Yeah, maybe that's the start of the trend now. And, you know, when I go through some of these contracts, too that you've signed, there's, there's stories to be told here. We talked a little bit about Jonathan Drew and with the, with the Avalanche and I believe it was before he had resigned there, but he seems to have found a home and he had his best season ever and I'm just wondering, I want to check in how he's, how's he feeling?

Well, I have, I have a saying that I've, I've practiced for many years and that's don't fuck with happy and when you find a great fit. And the relationship between Jonathan and Nate is very well documented and goes all the way back to junior. There's a really special relationship between Jonathan and his other teammates, Jonathan and the coaching staff and various things happened during the season. You know, there's the Val situation that's also very well and very publicly documented and the situation with Gabriel Landiscog and his ability to potentially come back and play this coming year after dealing with knee surgery and rehab for two years, not playing with all of those things in the air, it made a lot more sense to just do a one year deal and have the opportunity to come back in January and reassess the situation with regard to the team, the cap projection going forward and see at that time whether there's an ability to do something on a longer term.

Right. Right. Wow. It's a great story and it's fantastic to see. I also wanted to ask you about David Perron, who, I have to be honest, I was with, with Craig Barube coming to Toronto as the head coach, I was sincerely hoping that they would be able to find room for Perron as well. And I just think they probably just ran out of space. But he ends up in Ottawa and you were just, you know, some, you were effusive in your praise about Steve Steos and Michael and Lauer. Obviously, this is a team that was looking for veteran leadership. They were looking for it at the trade deadline. They were buying at the trade deadline trying to get to Chris Tanv and a few other guys because they want vets in the system to help the young guys out. We've had David on the show, but what do you think? What do you think was the main reason Ottawa went so hard after, after David Perron?

I think that Ottawa recognized David's leadership and his, and what he brings to a team's culture and identity and he preaches all the time about how players need to play the right way to win. And I think that people like Steve Staos recognized having a veteran leader like that on your team with a lot of very good young players and bring a level of fierce competitiveness, maybe a little bit of a snarl, because David does play with a snarl. But also, besides the great player that he is and what he brings to any team's power play, I mean, it was Craig Barube who said, david Perraw's basically the best power play player he's ever coached in his entire coaching career. And to have that element of come on to Ottawa's power play along with all of the intangibles he brings by way of, you know, winning a Stanley cup, veteran leadership in the room, taking young guys under his wing and mentoring them, taking them out on the ice after practice, trying to get guys going who might be slumping or going through a tough time, and I. And trying to help them work through it all.

David is a very caring person and a very caring teammate. And a lot of people in the room, a lot of players in the room look to him. They come to him because he's always so open about it. I think there are some veterans on teams that don't have any time for young guys, and they'll never take young guys out for dinner on the road and share stories or experiences or listen to their issues, and there's some that do. And David is one of the guys who's one of the biggest champions of doing that with younger guys and all of that together, I think it was. I think it was a brilliant move by Steve because I think the Fitzgerald is a perfect fit and I think David's gonna thrive in Ottawa. It's close to home. David Perron was born and raised in Sherbrooke Magog area of Quebec. It's a couple hours drive from home. It's the first time he's ever played that close to home. And with younger kids and having the ability to have grandparents around, I think it's all a wonderful thing.

That's very helpful, having grandkids or grandparents around, just as somebody with a five year old, I will. I will attest to that. You know, it's very interesting because when David was on Agent provocateur, and if you're listening to this highly recommend, you look up that episode, because it was season two. But he was really great. And he was talking about his first training camp, and in his first training camp, he started to get on the nerves of Keith Kaczuk now in a fun way. Right? And there's a great story about, oh.

He didn't just get on his. He didn't just get on his nerves. He checked him hard against the boards in a scrimmage. And he was a hotshot 19 year old first round pick who had never at that time played a game in the NHL. And he comes barreling into the. Into the corner and nailed Keith from behind and, and grabbed the puck, went down the ice and scored.

So Keith wasn't thrilled about that. But I know that they became great friends and teammates after that.

Great friends.

How cool is it that he's going to be playing with Brady?

What a lot of people don't know, and this is a great story. Um, when the all star game was in Montreal, way back when, Keith Kachuk was one of the players selected to play in the all Star game. And at the time they also had a young guns game where they had a three on three game of the NHL's young guns. They don't have that anymore. But David was selected to play in the young guns game. So St. Louis's owner had gotten a plane for Keith and his two kids, Matthew and Brady and David. And they all flew to Montreal together. And I think Brady at the time was something like nine or ten years old. And there's a photo that was taken of them on the plane together on the way to Montreal to the all star game. And there's a nine or ten year old Brady Kachuk with a very young looking David and big Walt and Matthew. And now they're teammates in the NHL.

That's very cool. Yeah, very, very cool. I'm sure Brady's thrilled to have a guy like him in the system too. Right? Another guy that obviously there was. There's. They want that team to play with a little more snarl and. And now Brady's not really going to be alone in that, which would be kind of cool too. Very. It's, you know, it's interesting with the NHL, it's just such a. It is such a small world, right? When it gets. When it gets down to it, everybody knows everybody, multi generational NHL players. I think it's very, very cool now. Um, uh, Allen, you know, for you, looking back on this season, because there was a lot this season, it really felt like the first normal season since COVID Right? Like, there were still some after effects last year, 22, 23 of COVID This year felt like, okay, we're. We're really back in business. The NHL saw record revenues. I think it was 6.8 billion in HR. Uh, we have a new franchise. We're not talking about the Coyotes and their, and their situation anymore. Thank God. I. What do you take away from the 23, 24 season as an agent?

Well, I think the NHL is poised to take their game to another level if the dinosaurs running the game don't fuck it up and get in the way. NHL hockey is an exciting game. It's an amazing sport. I can't tell you how many people who are not hockey fans go to a game and become lifelong hockey fans just from the experience of the speed and the skill and the dynamism of actually being in an NHL building. You've got exciting new franchises that are thriving in areas like Seattle, and I think Utah is going to be a tremendous success. A franchise team like Florida, newer franchise in the NHL, came in in the nineties, now Stanley cup champs. I think overall we are poised as a sport to take a giant step forward. But it's going to take some real creative, thoughtful leadership from the people who are running the game, running the sport. And I sincerely hope that when key decisions need to be made, they make them in the best interest of the game. They haven't always done that in the past and I really hope that this time that's what they're going to do.

Well, and those decisions are pretty notable. Um, you're talking about tv rights deals, you're talking about selling, you know, allowing franchises to be sold to the wrong owners, things like that.

CBA negotiation coming up before we know it.

How, how is there any. I mean, and again, I don't want to jump the gun on that because, but it's not that far off, Alan. Like we're talking what, 18 months until it expires? So have there been any discussions about how to avoid a work stoppage at that point?

You mean a lockout?

Yes, a lockout.

A lockout.

Yeah, you're right. Call it what it is.

I don't really think there have been any CBA discussions yet. I think that Marty Walsh and the PA leadership have done an amazing job talking to players, soliciting opinions. I think the process is ongoing about putting together a priority list and then really focusing on what the key issues are and how they want to go about improving on those issues in those areas. But the process internally has certainly started from what I heard, and I think that the Marty Walsh and some of the people leading the PA from people like John Gerba and Don Zavalo have a lot of experience in this regard. And I think that Marty is really, I saw him in Vegas and I talked to him in Vegas. There was actually an NHLPA player summer meeting going on at the time, and there was a lot of engagement and a lot of players who normally had not shown up to meetings, had shown up. And I think the outreach and the level of interest and getting younger players involved in PA leadership is critical because those are the players who are going to have the biggest stake in the future of the next five, six, seven years, not guys who are today playing the last year or two on their contracts or their last year or two in the league.

You need these young guys to see themselves as critical stakeholders, and those are the guys that have to be involved in the decision making and in the negotiations going forward, and they are in the process of putting that together now. And I'm very encouraged by everything that I see and everything that I hear.

That is such a difference from when you and I first started talking about this stuff because, you know, a lot of this stuff, I'll be honest, Alan, it's just not publicized. It's not talked about. And when we were talking about that even two years ago, a year and a half ago, these were not, those were not the sentiments you were sharing. It was quite the opposite. And so it's kind of. That's, that's really encouraging to hear, and I'm.

And I'm really encouraged.

Yeah. I want to ask about something you said a little bit earlier in the show, which is the NHL needs to acknowledge that players are the game and that's what they should market. Amazon has a series coming out following some of the notable players around the NHL through the playoffs, and it'll be a little bit like drive to survive or full swing on Netflix. Do you think that that show will be the step that the NHL needs towards what you're talking about? Like, do you think they're starting to get it and are they getting it fast enough?

When John Collins had a prominent position in the league as vice president, he was probably the most forward thinking top executive the league has ever had. And it was sort of his brainchild to do in conjunction with HBO and the first ever winter classic, the road to the Winter Classic. And that was the first behind the scenes with two teams. I remember Pittsburgh was very involved in that, and they spent weeks behind the scenes with the film crews looking at the two teams and how they were really peeling back the curtain and going behind and giving the access that the league had never given to an outside media entity previously. And the road to the winter Classic on HBO that year was absolute must watch, compelling, and I think went a long way towards filling a void that other sports had filled that the NHL desperately needed to fill. Well, John Collins left the NHL, and a lot of that kind of thinking left with it. And it seems now that the NHL is listening to the Amazons of the world and understanding how the NHL clearly has the greatest athletes in the world playing the game and the players are the product and the NHL to grow, and it wants to grow, it's poised to grow, needs to sell the players.

You know, the. Traditionally, the NHL has always believed, well, we're not going to sell the players. We're going to sell the logos, and that's what we're going to promote. It's the New York Rangers or the Montreal Canadiens or the Toronto Maple Leafs. That's not what the fans really want. No, what they really want. Why we're here, the only reason we're here, it's about the players. And once people get that and change their focus and outlook to make it about the players, that's really the key to getting the game and the sport of hockey where we all want it to go.

Absolutely. Well, if that wasn't the case, Alan, why would anybody have a customized jersey with their favorite player's name on the back? Right.

Exactly.

And, you know, I've always felt like, I'm sure the NHL does test groups, but what they really should do is hire hardcore fans, people that experienced the game as a fan, because I think it's been a long time. First of all, I know Gary wasn't like a huge hockey fan. He was in the NBA doing stuff for them before he was in the NHL. So I don't know that Gary's ever experienced hockey from a hockey fan's perspective. So I think it's hard for him to have perspective on that. I don't know about Bill Daley's background as much, but there doesn't seem to be a lot at the top that are like, hey, I'm consuming this. I'm watching this the way a fan will. I know that, you know, there were issues with, and there have been issues with both sides of the border, broadcast rights, not being able to find your game on game night, those types of things.

Blackouts.

Blackout. Blackouts that. That NHL, you know, NHL executives don't have to deal with because they're not. They're not blocked off from any of them.

But it's not just that. It's not just that they don't care.

Right, right.

So being an NHL fan is like standing there and having the league kick you in the balls a couple times a year and people get tired of that and that shouldn't happen.

Yep. I completely agree. I mean, you look at how some of the, you know, the fans are, or the teams are outreach into their communities. Look at the victory plus thing that Dallas just did. 70 games for free and you just download an app. How amazing is that? For the Dallas regional market, which includes, I think, Louisiana, Arkansas and one of the other big states in the area? It's enormous and it will bring a ton of new fans into what is already a very good, large, hardcore fan base. But I just think there's so much more that they could be doing. I hope, as you said, the old heads at the top get that eventually. And I guess, lastly, we always do this on our last episode of the year. What are you doing this summer? What's going on?

Well, I still got some business to do. I just went to the Rolling Stones last night. How were they of. I was a Mick Jagger, 80 years old, and he, he moves and dances like he's 35.

Amazing.

It truly is amazing. I mean, Mick Jagger should be marketing longevity supplements because, I mean, he's thin as a rail and 80 years old. I just kept like, I can't believe this guy played like this for 2 hours.

Yeah, they're, they're a spectacular live band. They're amazing.

Yeah. So my, my kids had never seen the Stones live, and, and a couple of years ago, my wife and I took them to PaUl McCartney, and they had never seen Paul McCartney live. And, you know, half his set list is Beatles songs. Oh, yeah. So my kids knew all the songs and they had a great night at Dodger Stadium. The show last night was at Sofi. Just incredible facility. And my wife and I took the kids and they're both home from college. I mean, I say kids, they're both, you know, adults. My son being 21, my daughter's 19, you know, but we still call them the kids. And we had a great, great family night going to the Stones. And they were surprised at how many songs they knew and how great the show was and how. And they both really enjoyed it. That's where I got my joy from, is seeing how much they were enjoying it.

My mom took me to the Stones for the first time when I was 14. I was just going into grade nine, and she said, you're going to go. And I was like, okay. I didn't know it. And she said, watch, you're going to know every song. And I knew every song. And they have been one of my favorite bands since. They are unbelievable. I've seen them three or four times. Absolutely love them. And I love doing the family concerts thing, especially as you get older. I remember my mom took me to see the Van Halen reunion in 2007 with David Lee Roth, and she had. She went out for drinks with one of her friends, and I went out for drinks with some of my friends, and then we met up at the concert, and during hot for teacher, she was air guitar with somebody next to her. Got a little lubricated. It was like, yeah, it is. It's fun to see. It's fun to see those shows with your family, especially when they are those critical artists, your Elton John's, your Paul McCartney's, your Rolling Stones, like, artists that are not going to be around forever.

And so that's awesome.

Bruce Springsteen.

Bruce Springsteen, of course. Of course. And Alan, are you going on vacation? You going anywhere family vacay or are the kids, like, not into that anymore?

Oh, no, we. Every summer except for Covid, since the kids were four or five years old, we've taken a week to ten days to go somewhere. And we're debating internally. We have an ongoing debate between all of us as to where we're going this year. Somebody brings up an idea and we're like, no, we've already been there before. Or somebody brings up another idea, you know? Yeah, maybe. Let's see if that can work. And we've got a couple of possibles out there. We're probably going to go away the second week of August, just before they head back to school.

Okay.

So we'll end the summer with a family vacation, come back, and then within a day or two, have them both go back to their respective universities.

And how's the new puppy?

I'm cut every. It's like playing with a great white shark. He's got razor sharp teeth. He's a wonderful dog. He's got a really sweet nature to him, but he still hasn't figured out. He doesn't, like, aggressively bite, but he likes to chew. And he likes to chew on your hands or your arms or literally anything he can, um, get his teeth into. And I don't know what it is with me, but he chews on my hand, and I'm bleeding in four different places. Um, they just go right through my skin, right? And I'm bleeding everywhere. So, like I said, we got to get down on the floor and it's like playing with a great white shark.

Puppy teeth. There's something about those puppy teeth. They're sharp. Um, yeah. Well, listen, I. I just want to say thank you for season three. It's been been. It's been awesome. I think it's been the best season yet. And, you know, absolutely. It just. It feels like. It just feels like a part of life now when I go, when I go longer than a couple of weeks without talking to you, I feel like, man, something feels like it's missing. So thank you for all the amazing stuff you brought to this show and to the network this year. Alan.

Oh, thank you. Thank you and Jesse and Steve for everything. It's great working with you guys. It's an amazing. It's been an amazing experience. It's changed my life. You guys have changed my life and for the better. And I appreciate everything. And one last topic before we sign off on the season is the news yesterday from the Concussion Legacy foundation about Greg Johnson and the reason why I'm wearing this shirt. As many people know, I serve on the board of directors of the Concussion Legacy foundation, dedicated to raising money to help people suffering from CTE with a goal towards ending CTE. One day the news came that Greg Johnson, who was the second captain in national Predators history and had a 14 year career in the NHL, had committed suicide. His family donated his brain to the Boston University Unite Brain bank affiliated with the Concussion Legacy foundation. And in research on his brain, posthumously spearheaded by doctor Ann McKee, one of the, if not the leading CTE researcher in the world, discovered that his brain did have CTE. It was impossible to stage the CTE level because of the damage done to the brain in the manner of which he died.

But here's just another player now. 17 of 18 players whose brains have been examined posthumously. Bye the boss. University unite brain bank have been found to have various levels of CTE. And there are many players, many players today retired and living day to day with a hurt, damaged, injured brain from the years of repetitive head impacts during their long NHL careers. We're even finding it now in players who played high school hockey, junior hockey. We're finding it in literally anybody involved in contact sports, you will find incidents of CTE. There's a very big story out in the New York Times last week with regard to Navy SEALs and the shock waves to their brain from artillery and blast explosions, grenades and other bombs cause shockwaves that come in and bounce off your head, very similar to a head impact in football or hockey. And they're finding a. They're finding a degeneration of the brain in these Navy SeaLs. A large group of them had committed suicide in their forties, and they started trying to investigate a cause or a reason why. And their symptoms mimic very much people living with CTE. Memory issues, anxiety, and depression issues, anger and impulse issues.

And all of common theme in talking to people, family members, loved ones around, around people with these symptoms is they're not the same person they were before. They're not the same guy. And, you know, it's a huge issue amongst NHL players. Gary Bettman still refuses to acknowledge there is any scientific link between repetitive impact, head impacts and CTE when he says that he's lying. There have been definitive studies. We've talked about them on the show. We've had Ken Dryden on to talk about ways to make the game safer, and he's extremely passionate on the issue. We've had doctor Chris Nowinski on, who's the executive director of the Concussion Legacy foundation and a leading researcher who co authored with 14 other leading researchers, the definitive study finding the link. And that study was released last year. There have been numerous other studies over the last three, four, five years have come out and to everyone, the NHL just shrugs their shoulders and Gary Bettman just shrugs his shoulders and continues on with the same lie whenever he's asked about it, that there is no link by the studies. He's just ignoring the studies. It's not just one study, it's many studies.

So there is a very heartfelt statement by Greg Johnson's daughter that was part of the press release that came out yesterday where she said it's very important to family members and to her that the NHL acknowledge the link. And only after acknowledging it can we all then say, okay, we know now what the problem is. Let's all work together to make this game safer for players. You're never going to eliminate concussions from. From the game. And that's not the discussion we're having now. You're never going to eliminate head impacts from the game. That's not the discussion that we're having. A. And that's not what anybody is seeking to do. What we're seeking to do is reduce in every way possible, reduce, reduce, reduce the amount of head impacts that players will accumulate over the course of their career, thereby making the game safer and thereby reducing the incidence of CTE while investing in CTE research with the goal of finding a cure.

And I think. I just want to say one quick thing too, if I can add to it, because I think there is a bit of. A bit of an unfair tag that we put on players that have been posthumously diagnosed with this. I think people think, oh, it's just the fighters. It's just the guys who are fighting. It's just the guys who are fighting for those who remember Henry.

Richard Henri. Richard Rick. Rick Martin.

Yep.

Ralph Baxtrom. It's a. Greg Johnson wasn't an enforcer.

No, he wasn't. I'm looking at, you know, he's played 785 games. He only racked up 2030 penalty minutes a game or a year.

Right.

Like, this is not a, this is not a, this is not one of those guys. This is just a player who was in the league a long time who, you know, has gone through this. And I think that's a really key distinction to make, too, when we're talking about CTE. Alan.

Yes. So 100%.

Do you see that changing or is this the way it's going to be under this regime? And for things to change, it's got to be a change at the top. Speaker one.

Well, the NFL acknowledged the link between repetitive head impacts and CTE back in 2016. The us military has acknowledged the link. The National Institute of Health has issued a statement acknowledging the link. The canadian government acknowledges the link. Really, the last bastion of league denialism exists in the NHL. They're all alone on this. There is nobody who says publicly the lies that Gary Bettman will say on this topic. So it starts with him. Ken Dryden was on our show and said he wrote an entire book, game change, about Steve Monador. With the audience of one person in mind. He said, I wrote the book only for Gary Bettman, and went and met with Bettman and presented him with the book and asked him to read it. And Bettman has been the number one force in our sport in allowing CTE to continue without any concise engagement with players and with places like the Boston University and the Concussion Legacy foundation and the group in Toronto to join forces together to end CTE. There is a cure out there. We will soon, very soon have a diagnostic tool that will be available for people living, as opposed to only being able to identify CTE posthumously by doing testing on somebody's brain after they've died.

Once we get to that point, and we have to get to that point, I believe there is a path forward to not drastically change the game as we know it, but to make it safer and reduce CTE until we can come up with a cure.

Alan, a great way to end, a very powerful way to end season three. Thank you so much for that. And we wish the best to Greg Johnson's family and anybody else who might be struggling with the same things he was.

Absolutely. And Adam, to you, Jesse, Steve and the whole crew who work at SDPN, you're an amazing media company. You're wonderful people. I wish you all a great summer for all the people who watch our episodes, for people who came out to our live show in Toronto all Star weekend, and to everyone else, have a great summer, spend time with your families and we'll see you next year. This has been agent provocateur with Alan Walsh and Adam Wild. Follow Alan Walsh on Twitter alsha. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts by searching agent Provocateur and hitting the subscribe button. YouTube.com sdpnouse.