Otawa senators. I got to admit, I'm surprised it happened, but DJ Smith no longer head coach and they have wound the clock all the way back to the early 2000s. Jacques Martin has taken over as head coach in his place. What are your thoughts on the firing and Jacques Martin taking over and what the senators could do next?

Well, look, this is them reaching back into their past to try to build a brighter future because they've also added Daniel Alfredson as a full-time assistant coach to their bench with Davis Payne going out. And this is a move what you need to know is that the senators absolutely did not want to make. My sense is that this came together very quickly after their loss this week in Vegas. They've been on a difficult road trip here where the team's taken a step back. I think that, Steve Stayles and management really felt that Ottawa was on the right track when they got back from Sweden. They had a run there. I think that they won three out of five games, but they were playing better. And then they've regressed during this road trip and and endured another tough couple of losses. And I think they just got to a point where they felt like it was almost inhumane to send DJ Smith back out there, especially with their final game before the holiday break being a home game against Pittsburgh. We've already heard chance of fired DJ in the Canadian Tire Center this year, and I think that there was real concern about what that would look like.

And so this is a stop gap solution for the time being. Obviously, Jacques Martin into his 70s now. It had been brought on initially just as a senior consultant to the coaching staff. And it reminds me a little bit of what you saw Edmonton do a couple of years back with Ken Hitchcock. Actually, Hitchcock also had a second tour of duty in Dallas you might forget for part of a season when they were between coaches. And I think that it makes a lot of sense given that they're also currently looking for a general manager in Ottawa. Typically, you let a GM pick his or her coach. And in this case, I think that that's probably the order of events we're looking at. Although, Steve Stayles, when he spoke to reporters, didn't really want to give an explicit timeline. I think he doesn't want to box themselves into any particular line of thinking. Point of fact being maybe a coach that we don't know today comes available that's really attractive to them and they move and make a full-time hire there. But I think really the plan right now is probably to finish out this year with Martem behind the bench, see if you can get them playing a little better defensively.

I think that's been a real weakness of the senators, obviously not helped by their goal tending, which is struggled at times this season. But the playoffs might be a little too much to ask at this point in time for Ottawa, but they need to get playing meaningful games and they're hoping that this change is something that will get the players attention and allow them to do that.

Yeah, my next question was about what the players have been feeling about this. You mentioned with the playoffs being a stretch. What a disappointing season for this organization that had a lot of hopes to make the playoffs.

Yeah, unfortunately, there's some parallels with Witscon and Buffalo as well. Another team in the same division expected to turn a corner and it hasn't happened this year. I mean, even Detroit after a strong start, you lump those three teams together because they've been on a similar timeline with rebuilding. They've obviously added some nice young players to the roster in recent years by finishing out of the playoffs. And you're wondering if they're all ready to take the step. And perhaps the answer is none of them. I mean, the Red Wings have dealt with some injuries, but they've been on a losing run here. And so I see Ottawa in that cluster of teams. And there is real disappointment there. I think that they feel maybe that they need almost a little bit more leadership in their dressing room. They've lost some veteran players. I know Derek Brassard was an important player off the ice for the senators last year, and he retired after last season. Maybe didn't replace the value that he brings to the team and brought to the team. But they're in a difficult spot. I think that's why it makes sense to lean on an experienced hand like Jacques Martin, who's had a lot of success in the League as a head and assistant coach, really probably was the finest run for the Senator's organization was when he was in charge of the team.

And with him and I think the way that Daniel Alfredsons carries an aura about him when he's around these players. I mean, he's certainly the most impactful player in Senator's history. The hope is that they can maybe push some buttons maybe that that DJ wasn't able to by the end. I know DJ is a really popular coach. I think the players really liked him. That wasn't necessarily the issue. But as we see, most coaches do have some shelf life. Dj had four years at the helm there. That's probably a little bit more than average, believe it or not, in that profession. I think Martin is a short term stopgap, but who knows? Maybe it goes well. Maybe we're talking about them keeping him on for next year. I feel like when you've got the job under your control, anything's possible. Sort of similar. Drew Banister was brought into St. Louis last week after Craig Berubay was fired on an intern basis. The Blues are going to look at elsewhere for coaches, but if he does a good job, if he gets a turnaround, it might be a longer stay for him. We'll have to see how things play out in a while.

But I think it got to almost like a crisis point where clearly this isn't something that was on the plans for new ownership. But the season was sliding completely into the abyss and they're going to try to salvage something of it still.

We'll get to sports interaction in a second. But I have one more question. It's a little bit more general. You mentioned that the Senator situation does parallel what's going on in Buffalo. That's another team having a disappointing year. Those two teams and Detroit, which is no longer in a playoff spot, have been on these long rebuilds. I wonder what their performances this season and over the last few years says about rebuilding and how teams need to absolutely do it in order to get better.

I've heard this from more than one GM. Everyone loves the idea of a rebuild. It's a nice title. It sounds like it's a plan, right? We're in the muck and this is how we're going to lead our way out of it. But there are so many cautionary tales out there. I mean, you go back even to Edmonton, who had all that run of first overall picks before they finally, in these last number of years, gotten on a good path. But I mean, that took like 15 years of rebuild, right? When you think back to picking Taylor Hall first overall and a number of players after that, I do think that it is very cautionary. And we talked about Pittsburgh in our last episode. I think that's why in some ways they might be smart if they end up doing a retool, but not tearing it right down to the studs because it can just be a painfully long process. Even if you make the right draft picks. You look at Ottawa, the year that they took Sanderson and Stutsla with the third and fifth pick, those probably even now, with the benefit of hindsight, were the right picks based on what they could do at that time.

I mean, great players for them, but it's still not enough to propel them forward on their own. I mean, the hockey is a team game. It'll be interesting to see where things go in Chicago, too. I mean, look at them right at bottom of the standings. They obviously rebuilt with some purpose last year knowing what the prize in the lottery was. They won that prize in Conor Bidard. He's doing everything you could hope for him in his first NHL season, and they're still a long, long, long way away, it looks to me from being a contender. And with each successive year, the expectations go up, the fans want to see progress. I think that's really why you heard the chants in Ottawa. I don't believe it was about DJ Smith specifically. It was a general frustration from a fan base that's bought into this idea that we're rebuilding with a purpose, but it just takes a long, long time. I mean, Ottawa, the last time they played a meaningful game, like truly meaningful game probably is the 2017 Eastern Conference final game seven against Pittsburgh. You lost in double overtime that night, one goal away from the Stanley Cup.

And here we are, almost seven years later, and they haven't really sniffed the playoff since and looks like it's not going to happen this season. Unless we talk about some historic turnaround. St. Louis Blues, Circa 2019-esque turnaround would be needed for the senators. It's possible. Mathematically, if you look at it, they have games in hand still on every team in the League because they had a very strange opening section of their schedule. So if they get incredibly hot and play at 650 or 700 winning percentage hockey, they can get back into the playoff race. I just think that's a tall task when you look at the underlying numbers, when you look at the way this isn't just about results for them, and I think the underlying performance isn't there. And as much as a new coach, Jacques Partan gets hired what? On a Monday after practice has already happened that day. He's coaching a game Tuesday night in Arizona, a game Thursday night in Denver. There's no time really for a coach during the season to imprint much on the roster. Obviously, I think he's talked about wanting to just build up the player's confidence because no one's in a good state of mind at this point in the season.

They understand everything we're saying. I don't think any senators' player would push back on. I mean, it's really not gone as planned there. And your larger question about rebuilds, I think, is pertinent. And we've seen some teams get away with not the full rebuild. Like, Boston is the gold star example of that. They had a core of a team that won the Stanley Cup in 2011, went to the final again in 2013. They took a step back and missed the playoffs a couple of years. They drafted David Pasturnak, Charlie McAoy. Some other players that have come in and given them another wave here where they've been a top team. If somehow watched the legendary players like Zidane O'Cara step aside and Patrice Bergeron took a risk and still kept on winning. There are ways to do it without finishing last and getting the first overall pick. Even Montreal, right? Let's see where it goes there. I think there's still a degree of patience around the Canadians, but it's starting to get a little thin, right? It is. That's a team you know a lot about. I don't know what to tell you. They feel like they have to start winning next year, like taking real steps next season.

This is their last grace year where I would expect they'll be trading away some top players heading into the deadline, focused on future assets, all those types of things. But eventually, you got to win games. You can only sell hope for so long before that hope goes away.