Talk to me about your thoughts as to why the unrest has been sparked.

Well, the scenes are horrendous, and it is good to see the police have been able to step up and make arrests in the way that they have. It's clearly needed. Now, you've had over the last few days the extraordinary situation of a community and a nation reeling from the tragedy of the murder of those poor three little girls in South Port, immediately being seized on by far-eye tactors, almost certainly aided and abetted by hostile states in creating and fanning disinformation to put out false narratives over the background and the prominence of the person who's been charged with that offense. Then this situation that's now spread across the country, and it is clearly the police and the government's number one priority, rightly, to restore that sense of order and emphasize that there will be very significant consequences for anyone who is part of this violent disorder, this criminality on our streets.

Why do you think it's happening? On On Monday, as you rightly say, a community in South Port was ripped apart when three young girls were killed and still children in hospital. Then by Tuesday evening, there were riots across the country. What's causing this?

Well, there's a very concerted campaign of misinformation, very deliberately spread by far-right actors. They have seized what they believe is an opportunity to act. Now, the far-right has It has been organizationally at a low ebb in this country and in other European countries in recent years. But it's always been the case that the actors, the individuals will still remain there and there's been a latent threat. That, I think, is particularly keen in this era where the social media and technology channels we have mean that you can propagate false information very quickly and you can create loose groupings and organizations that the police have to work incredibly hard to keep up. But look, it is really important to separate out whatever it is that the wing lead of this may say is our underlying causes with the criminality of the actions on the street, because this is law-breaking, plain and simple, and it is actually doing a gross injustice to the vast majority people who may have particular concerns about one issue or another to suggest that those in with the minority who are causing violent mayhem on our street in its name. They would want to have nothing to do with it.

We cannot have a situation where policies on any issue can be pushed by this this violence.

Lord Warnay, Why do you think the EDF, EDL rather, needs to be banned?

This is a question that's made slightly more complex by the fact that that's an organization that is formally disbanded. There are those who look closely at this who say, We shouldn't be talking about the EDL because it gives a level of organization to a group for which clearly the main actors are still in But actually, you may end up missing the target if you prescribe the organization. Now, I think prescription can have its place, absolutely. I've called for those powers in other areas of public order. But I think the priority at the moment ought to be what can you do with those individual ring leaders who are currently stirring things up and moving from area to area and being part of these organizations organizational structures. We should be going after those individuals. If prescription can be seen to be part of an effective tool in enabling us to get to those individuals, then yes, let's try and do it quickly. But because of that complication, I'm not sure whether it is the first thing you'd go to.

You mentioned it. There is clear evidence that far-right groups are using social media to drive the message for people to gather at these protests. Do you think the government, this current labor leadership, have what it takes to take on the social media giants? What would you be advising them?

Well, I wouldn't frame it in terms of do they have the courage to do it? Well, I mean, of course they would do. But this, again, is a difficult area because, yes, I think the social media companies ought to do more and be faster at cutting out the misinformation and disinformation. But again, this is a difficult picture because at the moment you have a number of companies who are prepared to be part of this conversation with civil governments, the likes of The Big Giants, the likes of Facebook. But there are a number of others who are housed overseas and would refuse any conversation with a government, but which whose platforms are still still readily available. There's a danger of switching everything to those platforms. Then there is the wider question that we do have to preserve a level of free speech. It is easy to overreach in this area. Look, yes, this is important, but it's not straightforward. One thing I think is straightforward on social media and that I've recommended in my recent review to government, that the government should give more capability and resource to the intelligence and security sources to be able to go after and shut down with the help of social media companies, the hostile state who create en masse these false accounts.

You'll have troll factories in places like Russia and Iran full of Russian-Iranian nationals pretending to be Brits with extreme views on the far right, on the far left, whose sole purpose is to artificially create this information and fan it. That can have a very significant effect in this environment, and they should do more on that front.

I suppose what happens next is difficult to predict, isn't it? But in your opinion, what do you think is the worst thing the government can do with the handling of what happens next?

I think the government need to avoid listening to those who are basically... The commentators are saying, Oh, well, maybe the tactics are wrong, but we've got to seed to the demands of these protests because this is criminality, clear and simple. A big theme of my work as the government's independent on political violence across the political spectrum is that you cannot have criminality driving the debate, whether it's on issues like immigration and integration, which some would have this as the cause this week or on noble causes on the left, like climate change. When people break the law and put lives at danger, that is what you need to focus on. The government's focus in the coming days has got to on giving the police the message, which I am pleased to see they are doing, that they should use everything in their power to get this situation under control. We should be looking at the courts to see if you can speed that up in the way that after the 2011 rights, they were sitting through the night. But you've got to actually focus on the criminality rather than make the mistake of thinking we should, as a trigger of this, engage in this big soul-searching debate on what our policy is on particular issues.

Okay, we'll leave it there. Good to get your thoughts. Lord Warnie, thank you for joining us here on Skynews Breakfast.

Thank you.