Good morning, Foreign Secretary. By the way, it's a big anniversary for you this weekend, 14 years since you became Prime Minister for the first time. You know that, don't you?

The date I was measure, actually, is December the fifth, when I became leader of the conservative Party, because I think that was... I know for some reason, that's the one I remember the anniversary I remember the most.

We could have a discussion. We had time about which one was more important. But let's just deal with today's politics. This morning, it's being said that The defector, Natalie Elfick, now sitting on labor benches, lobbied the then-lord Chancellor, Robert Buckland, on behalf of her husband, who, as you know, was convicted and spend two years in prison. If that is shown to be true, would that... These are allegations now. Without it showing to be true, what should happen?

I have absolutely no idea. I've got really nothing to add. I'm not a fan of defectors. I took over from one in Whitney, and I think it always leaves a legacy of upset and betrayal and everything else. I mean, if it's Winston Churchill and there's some enormous moment of principle where your party's changed and you feel you have to change, then of course. But I thought this was just naked opportunism by labor as much as by anything. I mean, This is quite a right wing conservative MP suddenly welcomed into the labor fold, having never supported any of their policies, people or approaches. I thought the revealing thing is it was like a moment when people look at the Labor Party and go, Well, if you don't stand for anything, then you'll fall for stuff like this. I thought it was very revealing, actually, in that way more than anything else.

Well, okay, we'll see what our labor guest has to say about that later. But let's talk about your portfolio, and obviously, Israel and Gaza. Last week, You said that this is a world more dangerous, more volatile, more confrontational than most of us have ever known. In the light of that, have you asked the Israeli government to delay their incursion into Ra'afa?

Well, I had a long conversation with Minister Dermot, who's the right-hand man of the Prime Minister last week, where my view is that the right answer is to try and stop the fighting by having a hostage deal, achieving a pause in the fighting, and then using that to build a sustainable ceasefire without going back to further conflict. That, I think, is the right answer, and that's why I'm always pushing on the Israelis and on everyone else. But the problem is it goes back to Hamas. Hamas had been offered a deal which would release hundreds of prisoners from Israeli jails that would provide a pause in the fighting to get desperately needed aid into Gaza, and they're not taking that deal. The question, really, I think, is for Hamas, why are you allowing this suffering to go on when you could stop it now.

But you have no influence over Hamas, but you might have some influence over the Israelis. Surely an incursion into Rafeh of the sort that Mr. Netanyahu talks about is in some sense is provocative and potentially a gift to Hamas.

We don't support. We've said very clearly that for there to be a major offensive in Rafeh, there would have to be an absolutely clear plan about how you save lives, how you move out the way, how you make sure they're fed, you make sure that they have medicine and shelter and everything else. We have seen no such plan, so we don't support a major offensive like that.

So it's only in the IDF it would be wrong right now.

We don't support an offensive in that way. But as I say, the real pressure should be on Hamas to agree that hostage deal, the fighting could stop tomorrow.

But it would be wrong to take that offensive.

That's right. Without a plan to protect people. Because, of course, in Rafe, you've got hundreds of thousands of people who've moved from other parts of Gaza. So it would be extremely dangerous to attempt a major offensive in that way.

One of the issues that's arisen, partly because of America's actions, is the issue of armed sales. Last month, the Deputy Prime Minister told me that you personally receive regularly updated advice on the legality of our arms sales to Israel. Now, in the light of their recent actions in Gaza, what's the latest advice? Is it still legal?

Well, we have a rolling process which is very thorough, very detailed. It's under the Export Control Act, and we have to give that consideration, asking the crucial question, is there a clear risk that something that could be exported could lead to a serious violation of international humanitarian law. That process is ongoing. We made two, as it were, adjudications so far, and the process is ongoing. So I can't comment on it now.

What's the answer to that question this morning?

Well, the answer to the question will be when we reach the next stage and we get the next assessment, will be to reach a judgment on that basis. But I've said many times that I'm not content with the action Israel has taken over humanitarian aid. They've never been given a Clean Bill of Health because it's important that they do better on humanitarian aid. Now, there are some signs that that is happening. They have made promises about 500 trucks a day, about opening the water and fuel pipes back into of Gaza, about opening Ashdod Port. Some of those things they're making progress on, but not fast enough, not quick enough.

But let me just take you back to the issue of weaponry. The State Department has released a report in the last 48 hours in which they say, I'm quoting here, it says, It was reasonable to assess that Israel had used American weaponry in a way that was inconsistent with international law. President Biden has essentially pressed pause on the movement of arms to Israel. Wouldn't it be wise for us to do the same?

Well, I think America and the UK are in a totally different situation. The United States is a massive bulk state supplier of weapons to Israel, including, thousand pound bombs and all the rest of it. The UK provides less than 1% of Israel's weapons. It's not a state supplier. We have a licensing system, and those licenses can be closed if it's judged. There's a serious risk of a serious international human rights.

The speech that you gave last week that I referred to, actually, you made the point that though we weren't in the same position as the United States in various ways, our decisions are not all looked at all over the world. Our position is influential, and our action, symbolic as it might be, is significant.

Why would we not? If you're saying to me, why not? Never mind your detailed process, which we have, and I think that's the right way to go. If you're saying to me, why not have a political declaration now to have an immediate arms embargo? Well, I was pressed to do that a few months ago, and the very next thing that happened just a few days later was a massive Iranian attack on Israel, including 140 crews missiles. I don't think it would have been a wise path, and I still don't think it would be a wise path. I mean, if I announced that today, it might help me get through this television interview, But actually, it would strengthen Hamas. It would weaken Israel. I think it'd probably make a hostage deal less likely. I don't think some political declaration is the right answer. We should stick with our rigorous process of making sure we act within the law.

Okay, Let's talk about Ukraine. Overnight, we understand the Russians are making advantage. We don't know at the moment exactly how significant, but this is a dangerous moment, isn't it?

It's extremely dangerous. This only underlines that this is a unjustified, illegal invasion by Putin into an independent, sovereign country. He's now, as it were, invaded it again from the north of Kharkiv. We must do everything we can to help the Ukrainians. That's why it's so essential we've given our three billion a year package, and we've said that that's going to go on year after year. We're encouraging others to do the same. Crucially, the work we've done to encourage the Americans to come forward with their package. I mean, it's sad that it's They can long to come, but it will make a difference. There's no doubt that American money and support and weapons will make a difference.

Let me ask you about that because you were obviously very active on this, and the Americans have attributed some credit to you for persuading Mr. Trump and all of that. But is that $61 billion package just too late?

Well, it would have been better if it came earlier because there's no doubt that Ukraine was suffering in the land war, as it were. Don't forget, Ukraine was doing extremely well on the Black Sea. They've sunk now a full quarter of the Russian Black Sea fleet, which is an amazing achievement for a country that really hardly has a navy.

But they're bumming out tens of thousands of shells a month, and they don't have them. I mean, South Korea has given Ukraine more ammunition, I understand it, than the whole of Europe.

Well, South Korea is a massive manufacturer of 155 artillery shells, but we all need to do more. That's what the UK is doing. We're leading, once again, first to do tanks, first to do anti-tank weapons, first to do long-range artillery, now the first to say, Here is a package that isn't just this year, it's next year, the year after. But the American money will make a difference, so we've got to get in there, give the Ukrainians the support they need. They have no problems. I was there the other day. Their morale is still strong. They're still inflicting appalling casualty rates on the Russians. If only the Russian people could see how many people they're losing.

Should we be leaning Are you counting on other Europeans, Germans, for example?

We are in a polite and diplomatic and sensible way. But if other countries did all the things that the UK is doing in terms of the long-range weapons, in terms of the training and support, we just basically got to make our strength count. I mean, together, the allies of Ukraine outranked the Russian economy 25 to 1. So we just got to make it count. That's the key. It's very frustrating because we can help the Ukrainian stuff to hold back the Russians this year, push them back next year, and then I think you achieve the just peace that we need to see.

If I may say so, you sound a bit crossed with our European allies.

I'm not. Look, if you look at the Germans, actually, they have given in monetary terms more than almost anybody. But of course, we'd like them to go further with the long-range artillery and with the Taurus missile. But it's a discussion. But I'm doing everything I can. That's the most important part of my job right now.

Mr. Putin seems to You have opened up another front now in Georgia. Of course, there are demonstrations against the law being introduced by, I won't say his placeman, but one of his friends in government, which would limit free speech in which would crack down on any organization that the government says might be a foreign agent. You said in this speech last week that we need to act now, that's the phrase you use, to protect our values. What are we doing now to act now about Georgia?

Well, we are supporting, we're very supportive of the Georgian people, and we have been very clear that we think this act is wrong. It's mirrored, actually, by many countries around the world that are doing the same thing, trying to close down any civic space, campaigning against any foreign non-government organization, any charity, any organization that they don't control. It's a problem all over the world, this axis of authoritarian regimes.

Indeed, and one of them is Iran. I know this sounds a little bit like a tour of the world, but that's what you do, isn't it? You referred to Iran as an authoritarian regime. This week, over 100 leading figures in the cultural world, musicians, artists, and writers, published a statement, Protesting the Death, sentence placed on a 20-year-old musician, to my knowledge, Selehi. For his songs, which are just supporting the women's movement. What are we doing to persuade or cajol or threaten the Iranians to prevent this young man being executed?

We have sanctioned over 400 people in Iran for a range of different things. We still have diplomatic relations with them, so we're able to protest at every level things that they do and say that we disapprove of, which I think is right. In that way, with allies, we're trying to put pressure on in every area. For instance, on the nuclear dossier, we're trying to work through the IAEA to try and put pressure on there. On this thing, we directly communicate with them and we use sanctions where we can to build up the pressure. We talk directly to the radiants on this. On this particular issue, it's something I will raise with the Iranian foreign Minister, yes.

Thank you. Now, let's come home. Let's be frank, you got a thumping in the local elections. I spoke to Prime Minister last week. He was obviously He's pretty frustrated he can't close the gap with Labor. Let's suppose there was some old gray beard at the cabinet table who had maybe helped John Major win against the odds in 1992, might even have led the party to a couple of elections in victories himself. What would that gray beard be saying to the Prime Minister now about how he gets himself?

What I say, I don't have a beard, and I'm not as... I'm going gray, but I've still got a long way to go. I say to him, stick to the I think the Prime Minister is a good man doing a great job at a difficult time. We saw last week that his economic plans are coming right with a 0.6% growth, much more than people expected, more than the IMF expected. You've got this situation now where you can see inflation coming down. I think interest rates are going to come down, taxes are coming down, the economy is growing. I think you've got a very clear choice opening up. That's what happens as you get to the end of a parliament. It stops being a referendum on the government every day, and it starts a choice between two teams. You've got a choice now where you can see one team, the blue team, with a very clear plan to secure Britain's future, with a strong economy, with growth and jobs. Then you got a Labor Party that's just praying that people don't look at that and they think about the Prime Minister that only lasted 49 days and the problems and all the rest of it.

You could almost feel Labor desperate for the election now because the longer actually we have between now and the election, the more you're going to see the plan is working.

Well, do you think that you're advising him to wait?

I'm not in charge of election timing, let me be absolutely clear, but I think he's right. He said second half of the year, and I think that's absolutely right, because you can see the economic plan is working. Also, I think people can see This whole issue about security, because it's not just about what's happening in other parts of the world. Right here in the UK, you see China cyber attacks, you see Iranian and Russian physical attacks. We know that security is the most important thing, and Rishi's got the policies and the team to deliver Okay, you're talking about a team, but actually part of the problem, and one of the reasons that labour's probably quite keen, is that they think your team captain is lacking.

Let me show you something. A lot of people have been talking about. Let's have a look at this.

This is the TLDR, Too Long, Didn't Read, version. The world is more dangerous than most of us have ever known. But we shouldn't let the risk we face overwhelm us into inaction. We can still make a difference.

Now, all my friends The audience have been watching this and saying to me, Watch out, this bloke is after your job. Let's look at this one.

No, I'm not.

Let's look at this by contrast. Now, let us be honest. Let us be honest. The first clip is in a different class to the second one. Why can't he do what you do?

Well, the second is more retail. Actually, I think the fact that pensions are going up by £900 and national insurance is coming down by £900.

I'm glad you explained what it was about because I didn't understand what it was about.

You and I have a certain generation. The point is, his one, actually, that's what really matters. Look, what I'm doing is important, I hope, and we're trying to make sure we have security. But ultimately, that £900 off your national insurance, that £900 on your pension, a massive achievement. I think actually, Richie explains that extremely well.

Yeah, look, the point is that the leader has to be able to communicate both the message and the mood and the feel and persuade people. It's no particular criticism of somebody if they can't do that, but it's quite a striking contrast that people are talking about, that you seem to be able to do this very well. He doesn't. I suppose the question that's being asked is, your back's against the wall. Is this the right man to be leading you?

Definitely. I think you'd go back when Richie took over. He did a very brave thing, actually, when he was campaigning for the leadership of the party. He said he thought that Liz Truss's policies were wrong and would end in tears and he wouldn't support them. That was a very clear A very clear statement, and he was proved 100% right. Then he takes over in difficult circumstances and says, I'm going to have to make some tough decisions to turn this around. That's exactly what he's done. You can now see the fruits of that with the economy growing, with inflation falling, and all the rest of I can say, Look, I sit around the cabinet table. I sit around the cabinet table and I see someone who's an extremely strong and clear leader.

All right, let me just make one last attempt dealing with this. Political Party, deep in trouble. A lot of scandal, divided, falling behind in the polls. You know what they do? They turn to a man who last led their party two decades ago and who swore he was exiting frontline politics. If you could lose a general election, maybe the Tories might need to take a leaf out of the SMP's book.

I don't know. Now, I'm Foreign Secretary. I sit in the House of Lords. I'm not in the House of Commons. I'm part of Richie's team. You could get back. That is what I'm interested in doing, and that's what I'm going to.