I'll speak to Kevin Hollandrate, conservative MP for Thirsk & Moulton. It's good to see you. Thanks for taking the time to join us. Have you got a title as yet?

No. A member of Parliament, of course, Thirsk & Moulton, which I'm very proud to have. But no other title right now.

You were a business minister previously, weren't you? Hoping for the same?

Yeah, I mean, I've 30 years in business prior to politics. I think I had something to offer. Small business is the lifeblood of our economy and our community communities. So I try to present that case as effectively as we can and try to improve support for businesses I'd like to continue.

Brutal politics, isn't it?

Oh, yes, of course. But you know that before you start. So it's a no-ing-game politics, but we do it because we want to improve the lives of other people.

Who's going to be your next leader?

I don't know, actually. Who do you want it to be? I've not made my mind up. I think we should have a much slower process than we've done in the past. So we've got some to pick the right person. I think we should probably start that contest probably in the autumn, September time, and conclude it by the end of the year, and give the people who step forward the right chance to make their case about why they should lead the conservative Party. I really think it's a fantastic opportunity for somebody because the country is in dire need of a conservative Party, whatever the electors decided last week. I think we're the right party to control migration, to lower taxation, to improve public services and to tackle some of the cultural ideology in our society. That's why we've got to set our case out. The leader is going to set their case out. How are they going to do that?

Not wish you soon asked the Conservatives Party, though.

No, I mean, great regard for Richie Sunack. I think he was the right person to lead the country. The country decided otherwise, and that's what we've got to accept and move on from that.

Why did it go so wrong, do you think?

I think we didn't deliver on our promises. I think there were reasons for that. We can make those reasons. We can We didn't make the case for those reasons, such as COVID crisis, of course, and cost of living crisis. We were knocked off course. Some of the internal difficulties we had as a party, we've got to accept we made mistakes in those things. But when you keep saying to people we're going to control migration, then you don't. I think people Well, after a while, stop listening. I think we've got to accept the fact we made mistakes in those areas. We had the levers at our disposal. We didn't use them as effectively as we could have done and we should have done. That's what we've got to learn from and explain to people how we're going to do that in the Each year. But one opportunity we've got there, I think despite the fact that labor have got a huge majority, and I congratulate them on their success, they were not popular at the ballot box in terms of a lower-What popular than you guys? Well, that is true, but less than 34% of the vote, nobody's ever formed a majority government.

You've never had a vote of less than 30%, you were in the 20s.

That's right. We made mistakes. We've got to accept that, and we've got to see where we went wrong and understand where we went wrong and fix those problems. But I think we have got a solution.

Was that the One of the problems that you went too early, you should have waited till the end of the year when the economy was going to be better, we're told. And also, if Richie Sunak is to be believed, people would have been sent to Rwanda by then.

Well, it's easy to make decisions from the sidelines. It's much easier than when you're in the hot seat. Richie decided that was the right time to go, and I respect his decision. I think given the scale of the tweet, I don't think it would have made that much difference when he'd chosen to go. I think, by the say, that's what on the bridge, really. We've got to look forward, not backwards. We should be very optimistic about the future. Much as I'm concerned about labor government, people shouldn't leave the country. Because over five years, I think we hold them into account over the next five years and present that cogent alternative to the Labor Party in 2029. I really think despite the scale of the majority, the actual vote share they received indicates to me that we can win in 2029 and present the case that people want us to present. So around migration, taxation, about public services, all those things we need to do. And we've got a really good opportunity now. Some very talented people will present themselves to the-Who are you looking at in particular? I don't even know who's going to stand yet.

But one thing I do really think is that we should maintain the current process. So the Parliamentary Party, the MPs will decide the two people that you go forward to the membership, and the membership will decide who's the best person. I think that's the right process and one we should maintain to give the membership that choice.

And should Rishi Sunak be onerbound to hang around until you've chosen who the next leader should be?

Well, that's a decision for him and for the Parliamentary Party itself. What can you do if you not got one? Well, the parliamentary Party itself. We've got something called the 1922 Committee, which decides on these things. So whether he thinks it's the right person to oversee this process, to elect a new leader by the end of the year, or decides to hand on to somebody else, that'll be a decision for him. I don't know the different thoughts are going through his mind in terms of which way he sees that. I'd be very happy if Richie did say that until the new leader is in place, but a new leader will be in place, I think, by the end of the year. The critical thing around that, of course, is that that person is the right person, but also that we support them. I think we made mistakes in the past of not properly supporting our leaders.

Okay. Well, certainly, we saw what happened with Liz Truss and what her electorate thought of her. I mean, But her vote crashed, lost half of her vote. So when it came to actually reflecting on her as a leader, they didn't care for her very much. The Prime Minister, the then Prime Minister, at least, kept his seat. One wonders how much longer he'll be an MP for, although he says he's going to stay on for the foreseeable future. I wonder whether you acknowledge how much you underestimated reform.

I don't think we underestimated them at all. We knew there'd be a political force to be reckoned with. But I say I don't think they present anything different from the Conservatives Party presenting as a solution to control migration, to lower taxation, to tackle those culture wars, to improve public services.

Why do you think people believed him rather than you?

As I said before, we haven't delivered on our priorities. We haven't delivered what the people expected us to deliver, particularly on migration. So we've got to learn lessons from that. I think if people trust us to deliver on migration, deliver on taxation, on public services, places on the cultural ideology we see in our society, I think people will trust us again and realize that actually a vote for reform delivered a labor government. We kept saying that would happen, and that's exactly what did happen because labor government They got less than 34% to vote, yet they formed a huge majority, a huge majority. And that's what you get from voting anything other than conservative.

Well, presumably, they're prepared to vote reform rather than for you.

Yeah, I think they wanted to teach us a lesson. They said, What we've done isn't good enough, and I accept that. We've got to accept that. These are the brutal facts of life.

How do you rally the troops? How do you pull yourselves up now by your bootstraps and carry on?

We recognize that the situation is what it is, the mistakes we have made. We then pick a good leader who's optimistic, set out an optimistic vision for the future, and we stick behind them, and we set out the right policies, the right principles, the right values. But we support that person. I think it's a really good opportunity for somebody to do that. What credentials do they need? We're not fighting against a popular labor government. We're fighting against a historically unpopular labor government. That was on the doorsteps and at the ballot box. That's the case. More popular than you. Yes, that's right. We've got to understand the reasons for that.

Anybody in particular... Let me ask you it this way. What credentials does a new leader need?

Tenacity, determination, somebody who gets things done, somebody who doesn't just talk a good game, they actually play a good game. Somebody who really is tough and somebody who can tackle these issues. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and criticize and say, We should do this, we should do that. Actually getting things done in the brutal and difficult world of politics is something different to that. I think Kirstan will soon find that to be the case. But the next person we get needs to be able to deliver on the priorities, not simply talk about the priorities, not simply somebody who can set out a detailed plan in terms of how to tackle these issues, but also execute that plan.

Okay, it's good to see you.Thank you.Thank you for taking the time.Thank you.Thank you.