Shadow Chancellor's. With us, Rachel Reeves. We had Lord Lemon, Norman Lemon, marking the homework of the present Chancellor a few moments ago. How do you think he did?

Well, there wasn't anything yesterday that remotely compensates for the tax increases that we've had under the Conservatives these last four years. And the Office of Budget Responsibility, the independent arbiter of everything financial statement related, has said not only is the tax burden now at a 75 year high, but that it will increase in every year over the next five years.

Depends which papers you look at this morning.

Well, that's the Independent Office for Budget.

Yeah, perception is reality. Universal credit up 6.7%, minimum wage up by 10%. Taking over the center ground ahead of putting themselves on an election footing.

Well, I mean, there is going to be an election, isn't there, next year? And this will have to be seen in that context. But in the end, how do you know whether you're better off? It's your bank balance. And the truth is that this will be the first Parliament ever where real disposable incomes are going to be lower at the end of it than they were at the beginning. And people can see that when they look at their bank statements, when they log into their bank accounts and see that the taxes that are being taken, the mortgage payments going out, the gas and electricity bills, which oftgem say today again are going to rise in January, are all putting big pressure on family finances. And the tax increases that have already been announced take more money than the Chancellor gave back yesterday.

How would you cut taxes?

Well, my plans are about growing the economy because so a couple of things. First of all, we will reform the planning system to unblock private sector investment into our economy and we would create a national wealth fund to invest alongside. Well, if you look at what businesses said about Labour's plans that we set out at Conference Kia Starmer and myself, businesses welcomed those. I chaired earlier this week, the first meeting of the British Infrastructure Council that I would chair if I was Chancellor of the Exchequer. Bringing in big private sector investors, domestic and global, about how we can unlock capital, because many businesses say to me they want to invest in Britain. But this government are not clear about their direction of travel and their priorities. And the planning system makes investment in Britain unattractive compared to other countries around the world. So we've set out comprehensive plans to make those changes, as well as reforms to the pension system to unlock some of the investment that we need, particularly for those fast growing startup, and scale up businesses. And I am confident, and businesses are confident, that if we do those things, we can get our economy growing.

And of course, you would have seen that yesterday in the forecasts. The rate of economic growth has been downgraded next year, the year after, and the year after that. We need to turn that around, and that would be my priority.

I did see that, but I also saw that big car companies in the Northeast are securing jobs there. The Chancellor is in North Wales this morning talking about securing jobs there as well. So he would say he's also growing the economy. But it's a long term plan. If yours is a long term plan as well, how will you cut taxes?

Well, if you look at the last 13 years, we've been in the bottom third of the league table for economic growth.

Highest in all development in Europe this.

Year, and the lowest in the G seven next year. But if you take the 13 years as a total, we're in the bottom third of the league table of the most advanced economies. That is a very poor record. In fact, growth over the last 13 years has averaged just one and a half percent. That compares to 2% growth a year under the last labor government. And if we had to continue to grow at those rates, the economy would now be 150,000,000,000 pounds bigger. Which is why getting economic growth again is so important. Which is why I've spent the last two and a half years as Shadow Chancellor working with Business to put forward that comprehensive plan to unlock growth and investment in our economy.

So if you can't tell us that you won't reduce taxes, can you say that you won't raise taxes?

Well, my instinct is to have lower taxes on working people. No, not really. Okay. Because when the Conservatives just two years ago tried to push up national insurance, that was when Rishi Sunak was Chancellor, wanted to increase national insurance on working people. Well, he's cut it now, but his instinct was to increase it. That was the wrong approach. We opposed it, and the government eventually had to back down. But what I won't do, Kay, is make any uncosted or unfunded spending commitments. Because when the Conservatives did that last year, it put pensions in peril, sent mortgage rates up, and working people, the British public, are still paying the price for that. One and a half million people came off fixed rate mortgage deals this year. Another one and a half million people will do so next year. Before I became an MP, I was an economist at the bank of England. I know the importance of low and stable inflation and predictable interest rates and the pressure on family finances these last few years, particularly through those mortgage rate increases. But also the food price increases, the gas and electricity bills, and the higher tax burden are all putting a heavy toll on families.

Can you guarantee that you won't put taxes up?

Well, we'll set out all of that in our manifesto. We'll set it out in our manifesto. Election hasn't been called yet, but when the Conservatives have tried to increase taxes, on working people. We've opposed them. When they've cut them, we've supported them. So I think that shows where my priorities lie.

Okay, just while you were talking about the bank of England interest rates in particular, we know that the banks were called in by the Chancellor because interest rates going up, but they're not increasing savings by the same rate. What would Labor do?

Well, it's not just on bank savings, it's on premiums for car insurance, it's on bills for mobile phones and landlines and broadband. The Competition and Markets Authority is supposed to enforce these competition rules and we need to toughen up the regulators to crack down on these bank interest rates.

Would you give them a tug about that?

Yes, absolutely. Because it is not right that interest rates for our mortgages go up instantaneously. That doesn't happen on savings. And we need to make sure that our regulators, whether it's the energy regulator, the water regulator, the Competition and Markets Authority, are putting real pressure on these companies and investigating these poor practices. And also, this is something which I feel very strongly about. When you are a loyal customer, you shouldn't be ripped off. But too many businesses don't put loyal customers on the best rates, and that is wrong.

Okay, we're almost out of time, but I want to ask you about the situation in the Middle East and the families that thought their little ones were coming home this morning. That's been put back for at least 24 hours, thought for British hostages this morning and their families.

All hostages and their families is just so awful. It's 7 October, it's weeks now. Not knowing, not hearing the conditions of the person you love the most, and particularly the children. But also you've got elderly people who need access to medicine and they've been locked in tunnels in who knows what conditions. So much hope yesterday that prisoners that were going to released today, let's hope it's tomorrow, let's hope that deal can be got across the line. So important that those hostages are released, but also that support can get into Gaza. But that won't happen until the hostages are released. So I urge Hamas, a terrorist organization, to finally do the right thing and release those hostages.

Okay, we appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for indulging us. Shadow chancellor. Thanks very much. Thank you, Kay.