Hello, listener, this is Jason Bateman, along with Will Arnett and Sean Hayes for the podcast called Smart Smartphone's. That's a place you're looking for. You found it. Congratulations. It's not a real high concept podcast. One person invited guests. The other two don't know who that guest is.

And then we chat. Here we go. Smart. Smart, smart list is presented by AutoZone, America's number one battery destination. Make a donation to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital next time you visit AutoZone during the St. Jude thanks and giving campaign going on November and December. I have a quick question to the side of Will is a window where I see workers just constantly not giving up.

Really a lot of decoration going into Denny's. Yeah. What are they doing over there? They building a room for your awards that you hope to get one day?

Yeah, well, I just said I said, look, I'm doing this podcast and this thing's about to clean up, so I'm going to need a shrine built.

So it's not an actual shrine yet. Obviously, it's just the the base of a shrine. What are they building now? They're building this is this is the baby's room, the new baby. We're renovating the the what used to be the guest room is now little Danis room.

So that's nice. Did you ever have a guest in the den?

Do you get it? I have had a couple of guests in that room. Jason really such a yeah. Boy, the way you ask that. So should he tell me who my parents once never made that mistake again. They're listening. My parents are not listening. They don't listen.

They might or somebody they know may hear this and then send it to them.

Yeah, more likely, although I do that all the time, I take shots at my parents as a as a bit all the time on Kimmel and I'm always joking that they'll never hear it. And then my mom will send me a text like that is absolutely not true what you said on Jimmy. And I'm like, oh my gosh, no.

It's a bit you know, I always try to throw my wife under the bus for bits on talk shows. And she she put the kibosh on that early on. And I got nothing after that. I got nothing. I constantly just got it all works every time.

It always works. My favorite target is Jason and I take a lot of fire, a lot it takes a lot of fire like I'm the second I love you know, the third one is listen, Sean, if you want me to take more shots at you or you thought it was it, ask, what are you doing?

Oh, that brings me to to our guest today, our very special guest. This person has excelled in their field beyond belief. This person has scored 656 goals, over 1500 NHL games. He has won three Stanley Cup championships as a player, one Olympic gold medal as a player, one gold medal in the world championships. He's one of an elite group of people were in the Triple Gold Club, they call it. I was actually at the ceremony with this guy who better than that?

He then he then took his career after his playing career and after an illustrious career drafted number two in the NHL draft after this Hall of Fame career, which I couldn't make the ceremony because I was busy that weekend.

And I don't think he's ever forgiven me and then have won that awards for the hair. He had the incredible hair, incredible hair. He worked for the NHL and the player's safety department, which used to be the sort of rules enforcement. And he changed the name to player safety because he's all about good PR.

He's a great guy.

By the way, it sounds like we don't have to talk to him because you're just he is now the president of he's the president and an alternate governor for the NHL, president of the Toronto Maple leaves that Friday. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Brendan Shanahan. It's and it gets good.

Thank you.

Terry is well, they're dry my skin.

Let me let me dive right in and ask the first question. How in the world did you and will meet you and will our now when did that happen, by the way, Shani, feel free to tell the real or a fake story.

Well, I'll tell the fake story first. I forget if we I think we were at a gym working out and I always starts.

Always starts. Oh, well, me too. That's our fake story. That's our big story. Barroom brawl. The true story is I was on the fifth floor of Barney's looking at sweaters and all of a sudden Will Arnett walked up to me and it's like, hey, man, hey, man.

I know some people, you know cowboy. Yeah. And it's my go to pick up line.

It was actually, you know. Well, and I, I think well, you're a year or two younger than me, but we did grow up in the same neighborhood and we had some friends that we went to high school with. And so I think you have to mention that. And yeah, and I didn't really know at the time that it would lead to all of this. Otherwise I probably would have walked away.

But what was the next step? The change? I mean, was he like saying, well, let me see that on you. And I mean, you want fresh eyes, right? You all right? Yeah. Let me help you put that color combo together. And he picked out some pants, and I think that's cute.

I know. Well, I think we stick with the fake story, Barney.

And by the way, now and now we're dating or. Sounds like the kids are going to go Barney's, what's a Barney's and it doesn't even exist. I know it's going to have to meet online vintage.

You meet it like Mr. Porter meeting guys online.

Yeah. By the way, speaking of when we met, actually, I'm sorry, Will, but Jason, I go even way further back than you. That's right.

That's true. That's right. I can't wait for our story. It was the Hogan family, wasn't it? Was through Josh Taylor. Sean, this is our story today.

This is it. Hopefully in 30 years we're going to be retelling this one. Yeah. Keep your eye. Keep your computer. Yeah. Well, what was his name?

Wasn't it Josh Taylor, the guy who played my dad on the show? He was. Buddy. Have you or was Sean Burke or was somebody with the devil's right?

We I was at a charity thing for Wayne Gretzky in Branford, Ontario in the summertime. I just finished my rookie year. I was I just turned 19 and I sat beside him at this event. And after after an evening having dinner next to him, he said, you know, you're the same age as this kid on my show. I got to introduce you. When when are you playing in L.A.? I said next year. So I gave him my number and somehow we were both gay at that.

It took me a couple of years ago.

So he was trying to set us up. That's what that was. And this really is our first story, this parlay. So.

So, yeah, you guys came out, you guys played the Kings and Josh and I went to that game and then we all went out afterwards and got ice cream.

That's about right.

What were we, 19 years old at the time? And I think I saved your life at the end of the night.

Yeah.

And then I got a little. You're not going to believe this, Will. I think I was running my mouth a bit with. Was it was Schonberg. Yeah. Where did I go? I saw one of the thugs who was the enforcer.

Dannica wanted to kill you. Burke wanted to kill you, kid.

He better go. Wanted to kill me.

Wait, was I just obnoxious or was I'm trying to like make fun of people both. Well, I guess that's because there's no or and that's. Well can you remember any of that because I certainly can't remember anything like what was I like.

Did I was I saying I can smell, I can still smell your uniform or was I talking about whether taking shots at Canada, what was I what was you actually wear the one that was that was inviting a fist fight with all of them.

And you you were telling them that that you might not look tough, but that you were and that you were you were going to kick all their asses.

By the way, he still opens with that.

Can you believe that? I stopped drinking? Why don't.

And they're saying to me, they're saying like Shanny, like, who's this buddy of yours you brought to this? I think we're like the airport Marriott just hanging out in a room.

That was this spot. That was Bateman's spot, the airport Marriott, like, make quick outs, you know, just in case something gets hot. I can just leave. How old were you, Jason?

They were nineteen. Right. You're nineteen at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's funny. That was shockingly that was the last night I ever saw Jason.

And then twenty one years later now Buddy's with well and I'm still shockingly playing in the NHL. I'm forty and I'm playing for the New Jersey Devils and Will brought Jason to a game and we went out afterwards and reconnected. We said it was had to be a world record for the biggest gap between two guys hanging out together after a hockey game.

It's got to be which is weird, which is also weird because you started your NHL career playing for the Devils and then you ended when the devils. And that was that is still the longest gap between playing for the same team, like being traded, you know, or leaving and going signing somewhere else and coming back.

Yeah, it's it's not really a record. You want to have it just six year old.

It's like I think it's like the longest gap between scoring goals for the same team. It was like twenty years or something. It was just an invitation, not so polite invitation to please retire.

They put skates on about in a wheelchair, right. Yeah, of course. That second round. Now, Shanny, are you are you. I don't want to get serious now, but are you as thrilled as I would imagine you are that you have earned a position that actually takes advantage of everything that you have absorbed and learned and appreciated and respected about your your field? Because a lot of people, you know, they might just kind of max out doing one thing and never really get a chance to diversify into something that takes full advantage of everything that they've learned.

I mean, I imagine it's got to be kind of a rewarding feeling. Oh, full swing.

Well, it's good. You know, it's actually it's a. It's a great point. I am lucky. It was, but, you know, it's probably not a lot different than what you guys do and when you transition to other parts of your job and podcasting podcasts.

Yes, yes. Yes. No, but it's I'll say this like late, late in my career, there was there was a year where there's a labor dispute with the league. And I was I believe I was thirty five or thirty six. So I was really sort of winding down my career. And up until then I'd always thought that the day I am done playing is the last day you will see me inside a hockey rink like I've spent my whole life here.

That's it. I can't wait to not have this pressure on me. I can't wait to to try something new. And and so there was a year long lockout where the actual hockey season in 2004, 2005 was cancelled. And it was it was like a great eye opening experience for me to realize that I actually really loved the game and I loved many aspects of the game. And in it, it taught me as I was winding down my career, I had about three or four years left in my career that that I would certainly I didn't need to step away and do the talk show.

Golfing with your buddies, telling old stories circuit. I just wanted to get to work and find a reason to get up in the morning and be motivated. So that was really helpful. And so, yeah, I grew up here in Toronto and I always I would say to my friends, because I lived in New York for a long time when after I played for the Rangers, you know, me being the president of Maple Leafs is like a kid that grew up in the Bronx, being president of the New York Yankees.

It's it's just a huge thrill for me.

Yeah. For us. For us. That's right. But well, by the way, when I first got interviewed for the job for the Maple Leafs, I had I've been retired for five years and I've been working at the National Hockey League and Player Safety. And so they called me in and, you know, with the media here in Toronto. So Hockey said it was really important that we kept it private. We kept it sort of out of the media so no one knew.

And then I accepted the job just to the CEO. And I came home and I told my wife and my kids and she said I said, look, no one knows yet, but I've accepted the job. We've agreed to terms. And and I'm going to go work for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And she said, well, you have to tell someone. I said, I'm going to tell the two people it means the most to me. I'm going to call my mom and I'm going to call Will Arnett.

You told me before you told your mom you were worried that she was going to tell the neighbors.

I think you might be right. I think I texted. Well, it's just said like, hey, man, I'm I've just been named the president of Toronto Maple Leafs. And he texted me back. We did it.

Well, did you even know that he was that he was meeting on the job? No, I don't think maybe no.

I don't think I would have trusted him. I would have known, you know, I guess I didn't in my mind.

I did in my mind. We we labored over at the meeting. Jenny and I talked to Katherine about it. You know, we as a family, we all talked about it. But no, I didn't. But it was huge.

It was so great because I was like, finally, I can impose my will on the Toronto Maple Leafs and have you another serious question. Well, but I mean, come on. You are you have you have whisper power, right?

So you're not you're not you're not making, you know, tangible personnel decisions, but you do have influence because you could say to Shanny, hey, boy, did you see that rookie. Just think that he is great, you know, could be very passive.

Well, all joking all joking aside, there have you know, of course I don't in any real way. And that's not the way it works. But there have been a couple of times there was a really funny time not long into the job standing. You remember that you were looking at different players and starting this rebuild. Sean, for you have to understand, the Toronto Maple Leafs in Toronto, are it it's the. Yeah, that's all there is.

And at it for years, the team had been in disarray, let's say, just to be in Shanae really rebuilt that they actually called it the Chanta plan, which boy I know.

Right.

And what you now see now, truly, I'm watching. This is like for five years, right?

Five years, OK, because I'm just started watching the Michael Jordan documentary and I'm kind of as you're talking, comparing it to how the bulls were in that shithole, the Chicago Bulls, until Jordan and that whole and Rodman bit came along.

And we got our this is going to be so controversial. I can't wait for people to say how dare they say it? But we got our Michael Jordan owns us with Austin Matthews and then and then McMahon or whatever. These are the pieces that the chain has been putting together.

But you have to understand. So they were really trying to he was trying to figure it out. But I remember one night I was sitting at home, I was watching and I was like, you know, who the leaves are get?

They are a buyout. At the time, he was still with the Kings, Mike Richards, who had won Olympic gold one newstand. Cop, he's a hardworking kid from Canada and Ontario, and I was like, they ought to get my grades and I take Contigo. You ought to think about buying out Mike Richards. And he sent me a script. Remember this? You sent me a screenshot of your laptop was up at that moment and you had been looking at Mike Richards stats.

No, he didn't end up doing it, but you just connected with just finish each other's sentences.

This is awesome. Yeah, but Sean.

So, Sean, I'm going to give you a little context for some of this really cool about about Brandon. And we call him Shanny. But you have to ask, is that is that in 1987 he was drafted number two in the draft? Right. He was a highly touted coming out of junior number two when he was drafted by the New Jersey Devils. The general manager at the time was this gentleman by the name of Lou Lamoriello, who's had an illustrious NHL career as a general manager.

He's won multiple.

Stanley went on to start that great sportswear company to the yoga pants and won Lululemon. Yeah, no, I think that some people know that. Nobody knows. Sorry. Go ahead. I don't want nobody.

Yeah. So he so he was drafted by Lou Lamoriello, number two, 1987, when he took over the Toronto Maple Leafs. And he's putting together a team he ended up hiring as general manager.

Lou Lamoriello, the guy who drafted him as a player, was now coming to work for him as his general manager. How cool is that? We just lost our listener, Sean.

Sean added, I'm listening. No, I think that's amazing. I not sick.

Yeah, that's I mean, I'd be more blown away by that.

That's unbelievable. No, it really is. I'm thinking about because I, I, you know, being gay, you can imagine I'm an enormous hockey connoisseur.

Are there any famous gay hockey players? Sure. But they still don't want to be known.

Hey, Sean, have you ever heard of an extra Meyler story? Well, going the extra mile usually means you've gone too far, in most cases a mile more than you should have. I would imagine an extra mile. Our story is about turning your car around and your phone plotting a new course. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not you. You keep going. The extra mile means putting in extra effort, doing more than you were asked at AutoZone.

They share extra Meyler stories and give extra mother awards for autos owners who do something really great. I've got one here. It's amazing. It's about Brian in Florida. I think I have a second cousin named Brian in Idaho. Gotcha. Then this is most definitely a different person. Brian in Florida, a manager at AutoZone, he was helping Angelo with a check engine light.

Oh, that's that free fix finder service. I love that. Well, Brian and Angela got to talking and Brian finds out that Angela is a single mom and she has a son with some development challenges. And she doesn't think that the kid is getting enough playtime outside because her porch needs repairs. Now, this is a real life AutoZone extra mileage story about Brian in Florida. So just stick with me. So Brian is in a car club in Atlanta and Brian pulls up his car club buddies.

He tells them about Angela, about a check engine light and her porch. And they go to AutoZone. They get an oil change kit and they get lumber from the hardware store. They pay all of this, you know, by themselves and that they go to Angela's house where they change her oil and they fix her porch so her son can play outside. Yeah, exactly. And we're not even done. Brian has kids of his own, so he brings them over to play with Angela's kid.

And it's just it's a great time all around.

Wow. Brian went way more than the extra mile. He went like an extra 17 miles. I imagine it just gave up trying to plot how many extra miles he went.

Well, listen, Brian is a heck of an auto owner, OK? He really he cares about people. So the next time you visit AutoZone, me personally, I'm sure you or anyone listening, next time you visit on his own show how much you care about people and going the extra mile by making a donation to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, you just tap on a button at checkout and you're helping in childhood cancer. It's part of St. Jude thanks.

And giving campaign. And it's going on all of November and all of December at AutoZone. Parts, products, accessories, caring about people and service that goes the extra mile. Get in the zone, AutoZone.

Sean, this holiday season, more people will be mailing stuff than ever before, and that means the post office is going to be busy.

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Stamps.com never go to the post office again. I have a question for you, Brenan or Shanny Shanae or Shantytowns or Shannon and I, you know, I relate the pressure that you're talking about, the pressure to, you know, I want I want this pressure out of my life of going to the rink and having to perform and, you know, killing at every game or whatever. But then you turn around and kind of created another type of pressure by running the joint.

So arguably more. Yeah, right.

And so why choose to imbue that upon yourself yet again?

Well, I think it's the secret that we all sort of learn sometimes a little too late is that that we do it because we love it. And yeah, I get it when I look at our players now. And I know that there are certain things probably about the game that that that bothers them, as I'm sure with you guys as well. Like, people would love to be doing what you guys are doing, but there's certain parts of it that aren't as fun, that are difficult.

But. And so I think it's normal to sort of say I can't wait for the day when I sort of cross that finish line and I don't get criticized anymore. And I don't have people like second guessing me and I and I don't have the pressure to perform. But but then once it's taken away, I just watched that last dance as well. And, you know, our team in Detroit at the time when when Jordan and in ninety eight when the show sort of like the last dance when they were winning there, I think it was their second three peat in Detroit.

When I was with the Red Wings, we were winning back to back. And I remember being in our we would play an off nights like we were in the Stanley Cup finals. And like if we played on a Tuesday, we'd be off on the Wednesday, but then the Bulls would play in the finals on the Wednesday nights. We'd all gather and watch. So it's weird to sort of go back in time and see them at that time. And what I took from that is and it's it has to be in the same for my industry as it is for yours, that people are successful can sometimes look very elegant about it, and they can sometimes look very sort of smooth.

But there's like a fire in their belly that is very, very difficult to satisfy. And that's what keeps you going. And I use Michael Jordan as an example for this with my kids when everybody says, oh, Michael Jordan was a winner and I love that one commercial he did where he talks about all the times he failed. And I think that in any industry, in any business and when I try to say to my kids, kids will say, oh, you won three Stanley Cups, Dad, you're so lucky.

And I said that that means 18 times I lost like 18 times. I felt like a loser all summer long, like the Thomas Edison thing.

He said, yeah, I didn't find ten thousand ways to do. I found nine hundred and ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine ways not to do it.

Yeah, Sean has a lot of experience with failure. So. So he knows what you're talking about is why we just jump right in and you know, but I think as you get older you learn how to handle it better.

I remember saying to one of my teammates when I was in my final playoff, like as a forty year old, they said we were playing a game seven. I was just so excited, so loose and not nervous. And he said, like, how aren't you sick to your stomach right now? And I remember making the recognition at the time that right when my head is finally starting to get it, my body's starting to lose it. And interesting and so have the ability to handle the pressure.

Now, I also think when I was younger, I liked credit. That's what I thought about with the bulls. That poor general manager was named Jerry Kraus. It was actually a ridiculously good general manager, found really good players. He had a great eye for coaching, but his insecurity and his need for credit is need for attention. But I think that that is something that I'm over now and I really just want to win here for people like.

Well, so that makes them happy.

But you know that you said that fire in the belly. I imagine you still get that. You have to get that. But now you have to be OK with responding to that fire in your belly without tangibly literally getting on the ice and and playing really hard, really well, really aggressively, really smartly, etc.. You have to do it through these proxies that you put in place. Is that satisfying enough or is it even more so?

Great question. I don't think there's anything quite like being a player. And I I'll say this. It's hard to watch my team play a Game seven because I'm standing there in a suit and a sweep and I can't do anything. And I remember as a player, I might have felt sick to my stomach that morning or whatever. Like you learn how to compartmentalize so that you're not nervous when it's not time to be nervous. But I found it easier as a player to be in those moments because like you said, you said you get to go out and use your energy and scathed bodycheck people and do all these things and you're so focused, but you want to almost just grab these young guys.

And I wanted when I was watching the Jordan thing, I almost I wanted to go back in time. It just grab say, Michael, go fix this one. Scotty and the general manager go like, don't let this head just go talk it out and I want to grab our young players and just say, you know, it's like children. It's like your kids. Sometimes you care about if you want to say, like, I don't want you to make mistakes I made or I want you to learn what I learned learned earlier so you can have more fun doing this.

But they have to learn it on their own and they have to figure it out on their own.

Would you be able to to sort of communicate some of the more specific guidance, stuff like that, in the head coaching position? Do you have any desire to do that at all? I mean, I know it's it would be a step down from where you're at right now, but you'd be more, you know, did you travel with the unknown? Imagine you travel with the team right now, do you? I'm in a lucky position where I get to travel, what I when I when I want to travel sports.

Is that appealing to you at all the coaching stuff? Yeah, it is.

But and who knows maybe what my kids, you know, move off to college and we're empty nesters.

I'll be the only guy to go backwards and go from team president to coach because quite frankly, they make more money.

So I think that, yeah. Any chance you have to to get these young players and sort of help mold and shape them and have an impact on their lives? Hopefully a positive one? It would be fun, but my guess is I'll stay where I am as long as I can remember.

Like, you guys know what it's like when you when you do a show or you're you're performing or doing whatever and you have that kind of that letdown afterwards where you've got all that energy, you've just kind of dumped it all.

So when you retire from playing where you're kind of up all the time for over 20 years with 21, 22 years. Yeah. Yeah.

And then how long was that?

I mean, I was there for and was hanging out with you, but how long do you think that really took that sort of calm down period right after you retired?

Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to get right to work. Like, I remember having a couple of different, you know, ideas about what I wanted to do. And I ended up the easiest thing for me. I lived in Manhattan. My kids were going to school in Manhattan. And the easiest thing and it really took me out of my comfort zone was to go work in an NHL office and really be such a newbie. I was a forty year old like total newbie.

I remember my sounds like a joke. Makes me sound like an idiot, but it is actually true. At the end of my first day, I'm sitting in this cubicle in and around four forty five. Four fifty. I see some people staying, some people are leaving. And I said to the woman in the cubicle next to me like, excuse me, how do we know when it's time to leave?

Like when does the buzzer go there or is there a siren. Oh my God.

You know, she's probably twenty six years old and I'm forty and and I just I was that green and I poured it all right. Into work right away and sort of learning something new and being off balance.

And John, you should know there was there was a period not long after he retired, I called my one and I said, how are you doing? He goes, I'm pretty good, but I don't know. It just occurred to me I'm never going to fight again. And I said, Well, yeah, you're forty two men. You shouldn't be fighting anybody. When are you talking about let me ask you a question.

What hurts more punching a guy's edge of his helmet by mistake, like missing his face and hitting the edge of a helmet or getting a puck in the ankle?

I'm so excited to be able to tell three actors. Never, never, never. If you ever have to punch someone in a TV show or movie, shake your hand. It never hurts. The moment after you punch so many people, do they punch you? They go, oh, it hurts. An hour after when you realize you've broken your hand, in the moment you punch a guy, your hand could be broken. You don't know it.

Your your adrenaline's going.

I have some editing to do. Then I have to go. This is some footage and so is it. The puck in the ankle.

The ankle hurts right away. The ankle hurts right away. Like I said, the first thing it's usually like your it's like in Ferris Bueller when he catches the ball in about an hour later, he's sort of like doing this for hour. Wow.

This is a great point that you just made. And I'm glad you brought it.

Ferrer's so happy to to bring up things to people my age that get a Flintstone's jump as Ferris Bueller. I get blank stares in my eyes from all these millennials, but I'm like, oh lordy Anderson hot you know, and Loni and is so short.

You ready for this. Chandni has an encyclopedic knowledge of movies and TV. I love that you cannot stump him on movies and people who are in movies is virtually unstoppable.

What was once known, a writer's first film that Heathers.

I was going to say it's Lucas. Lucas. Yes.

It's interesting you said that after I said it, but that's great. That was. Oh, did you say Lucas? Yeah, that's OK. No, you did it.

It's interesting. So I played every single sport, I had three older brothers, I played football, basketball, soccer, I never played hockey, everything.

And then, of course, other interests took me into other places that I grew up.

I studied piano and arts and stuff, but it never occurred to me until like several years ago that, you know, I still watch football.

I think it's a super exciting game to watch on TV. Is the performance of it OK?

Just from an actor's standpoint, I would see these football players who get like angry or a baseball player get angry.

They get angry just a little more than if a crowd wasn't there or the cameras weren't on. And now is that true? Is that like from this gay guy who doesn't really you know, I'm not on the inside scoop of all these how it's all done.

But just from a performer, from an actor's standpoint, it seems like they notch it up just a little bit for the crowd.

And if they weren't there, it would just be a regular game where there's not a lot of, you know, hype.

I think there's probably more real passion than you expect, but you're not wrong. There are always times where there was a guy on the other team that would be acting up and really sort of like, you know, getting theatrical out there with his whatever it was, you know, like I'm so bad, I'm so mad. And and we'd be like, those are the lines.

He would say, I'm so mad, I'm so mad. No other stuff. But, you know, like, there was a God there was a guy on Colorado we used to call Mr. Moeny face. You know, it's like, oh, hey, Mr. Reunifies, you know, like you're scaring us.

And then there was a guy in Toronto, like every time they were losing, he'd start a fight late in the game and throw his equipment in.

And we were like, oh, yeah, yeah, you care more than everyone else. Don't worry. The radio shows would be nice to you tomorrow. You care for them anyway.

So it is strange how like you, I'm the youngest. You say you have three older brothers. Yeah, same for me. So I grew up and in my brothers would laugh at me when I got to the NHL and they'd see me like losing my mind on the ice. They'd see. But the reality is you're in this like sort of controlled environment where it's sort of okay to lose it. And it's and sometimes it's actually encouraged and it isn't till you get older and you start like having a family.

And I would say, like perspective is the enemy of being a really good athlete. Like, once you get to an age where you sort of like, well, it's really not war and it's really not life and death, like, that's that's your enemy. And I always remember when I was playing for the Rangers late in the game and we were up by a goal and the Buffalo Sabres were like coming out of that. There was this young rookie right by the post and the puck was coming to him for an empty net to tap it in and tie the game.

And I crosschecked this kid right in the head and throw his head into the crossbar and his helmet fell off and he was carried off the ice.

And we're all carried off the ice, by the way. But he didn't score, but he didn't score. But here's the difference. I got his phone number and called him afterwards and said, hey, are you OK? I'm really sorry. And I remember I remember making the mental note, like, you shouldn't have done that when you were like, you know, you're doing that because you're forty. You wouldn't have done it when you're twenty. And you would have said, like, even though that was accidental, I want him to think I did it on purpose because then he won't come near me next game, huh?

Yeah.

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So since you've been in the game for so long, not only as a player, but with what you're doing now, a lot of changes to hockey, if you could eliminate one of the new rules that has come along since you were a rookie. Which one would you pick? And I also want to hear which one would you make up and put in a while?

You know, as much as I tell those stories and I grew up I that I grew up in that environment where it was OK to do these things on the ice, I'm actually somebody that has as been on the record for saying that it's we got to clean the game up. We know more about concussions now and brain injuries and head injuries and the and it's in the game has cleaned up. There's there's a lot less fighting in hockey. There's a lot less.

I mean, look, I spent five years or three years working in player safety for the National Hockey League. That's that's like asking a former bank robber to to work at your bank.

And by the way, to that, Sean, you should know that Shenae holds the record for the most what they call Gordie Howe Hedrick's in the league, which are games where you have a goal assist in a fight at nine, I think a record chod shot him so nice.

I'm so nice. I get that. I feel that. That's why I'm like not to be afraid of me.

Now I understand like like I feel like, you know, as close as I am to well and well knows, I feel like I get you ready.

You would get you would get along. Put it this way Shanny I one time. Is that a restaurant. And I went the bathroom, we were having dinner where the military was and it came up the stairs and I heard Jimmy says, I don't know, I heard him go say five nice things about me quick.

But he was really low. I was I go, your self-esteem is so low. I heard that that was unbelievable.

I think I said it to you, but to me. So, Jason.

So I think that the game I like the fact that that the game is making a greater effort to protect players from serious injuries and especially injuries that could have an effect on them. So I like the rules that are built around illegal checks to the head. And and, you know, fighting is is is something that will happen in any sport. It happens in baseball. It happens. But to me, if I see a fight in hockey and it's because, you know, somebody was protecting somebody or somebody was bullying somebody and you were addressing it, there's probably still a place for that in hockey.

But but using it as a tool to intimidate or hurt, I don't know. It's it's going away from that. It's weird now, isn't it?

Do you find? I find it. We were all around the same age and obviously I grew up watching that earlier in the 90s were a particularly brutal time in the NHL. It was super tough, a lot of fights, a lot of really hard hits, a lot of dangerous hits, lots of dudes carted off the ice. Now, when I watch a game and I see a fight, it's kind of unusual.

People still talk about, oh, yeah, know especially down here, they'll say, you know, I went to a hockey game and went to a fight at a hockey game, broke out. That's not the way it is anymore.

It's rare and it's rare. I'll talk about my brothers like I remember my brother Sean, my brother Brian on the same hockey team. And I kind of copied them. How they played sports. That's that's who I emulated. And they were tough guys. They played some defense and they played they scored some goals. But I always thought when when Brian fought, it was that moment in the stands where the whole arena was sort of saying and they were lacrosse players.

And it was when the whole arena was sort of saying, somebody do something, you know, don't let them get away with that. And then Brian would come running over. Like a hero, like, you know, and take care of it, but then Sean, when Sean would fight, it was like the whole crowd was gone. That was dirty. So that looked me.

So I think he's getting away from from that or is it becoming a more offensive league as opposed to to a defensive league or Gesher?

Yeah, well, I just like his I don't know, the way I think is not necessarily the way I played, you know, and I know people get pissed off at me when I say stuff like this, but I don't get excited to see a big hit. I, I get excited when I see a big goal and I just I just can't cheer, get excited any more. And I want to say any more because there's probably lots of occasions where I did that stuff on the ice, but probably I, I don't want to see any of these young young guys on the ice getting carried off.

I just don't I don't get off on a you watch these other sports leagues, though, make these huge efforts to to to market out the sport and increase its popularity. Like, you know, baseball will go towards juicing the ball and putting in clocks between pitches to to up the pace of the game where so they're looking for more offense. I think that'll be more exciting for people, whereas like football, they think, you know, we're careful. We don't want to, like, say that you can't hit a guy too hard because people tune in for for sort of the violence and the physical contact of it.

So where do you think hockey sits in that, where every league would naturally want to increase its viewership and its and its appeal and TV friendliness of it? As far as you know, excitement goes, where do you what do you think the best combo is for for the NHL to watch, though?

You mean like what's the thing they can market was the thing they can hone in on?

I think people I tell my my my kids this. I think whether you're an actor or professional hockey player, people are attracted to passion. So whatever that how like Michael Jordan wasn't fighting anybody, but he was passionate. I think I think when you see that someone really loves their job and is really into their job, even if you don't know the first thing about their job, you're attracted to that person.

Yeah, that's I love watching Olympic hockey because you you definitely mean I love NHL, too, but look at Olympic. Hockey's got a different sort of right. You got that national pride that seems to pull out a real passion and desperation in those games.

And it's single game elimination. It's like it's one and done. And also, you're right.

And it's one and done. And there's we went to the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver and he was kind enough to get his ticket. So Jason and I were there with you and that was unbelievable. And I remember the time thing like this is so business, so great watching the Canada win Olympic gold.

And of course, Shani had already won a Gold Cup. I'd forgotten that.

But tell me, what what was that like as a player? We've never actually talked about this about the Olympics. I don't think maybe we have. I probably fell asleep.

But what what did you what did you love? What was that like winning Olympic gold for Canada?

Well, the in nineteen eighty eight, the Olympics were in Calgary, but I made the NHL in nineteen eighty seven as an eighteen year old. So at that time, the moment you were a professional, you could not play the Olympics. So I thought my Olympic dream was, was over. So my first Olympics was the first time they they allowed professionals to go in after that basketball dream team in ninety eight we NHL shut down for two weeks. Let's all go to Nagano and and, and then in twenty two I was able to go back to Salt Lake so I couldn't the whole winning the gold medal in Salt Lake in twenty two is really connected to my experience.

In ninety eight and ninety eight we were the favorites to win. We were having an unbelievable tournament. We were in the semifinals against the Czech Republic and we ran into a hot goalie. We ended up tying the game with with under a minute to go. We went through overtime. There was no winner in overtime, so we went to a shootout. I had never none of us had ever been in a shootout in hockey for these stakes. So unlike soccer, where they do it all the time, we didn't know what to do.

So they were calling out five names and we're all sitting on the bench. Wayne Gretzky is on the team myself. And like great, great players are probably all Hall of Famers. And the coaches are having a little meeting and we're going to have the shootout to decide who goes and plays in the gold medal game. And they start calling out names. And I'm just in my head of a picnic. Pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me.

And then the fifth name, they go Shannahan. So all I'm thinking is, oh, my God, I hope I get to shoot. I hope I get I get to score, be the winner and be the hero. They score the first goal, then everyone else misses. And I'm the last shooter. And the last shooter for Canada to advance and I don't score and I let down the whole country and it was very confusing to me. It was like like I said, we talk about athletes and how they compartmentalize and they're always thinking they're supposed to take that last shot of the game and they're supposed to think that three and they're supposed to be the winner.

And now I got to wait four years. I don't even know if I'll make the team in four years. I'll be thirty three in four years. So I went home and after some real soul searching, I wrote on a on a piece of paper. I didn't tell my wife, but I wrote on a piece of paper, you're going to make the Olympic team in 2002. You're going to win the gold medal. Is it going to score the game winning goal?

And I nailed it to myself, put a stamp on it. I mailed it to myself and got it a couple of days later and put it in my drawer so I could prove that I actually mailed it in nineteen ninety eight. So going back and doing this, the two thousand two was personally, it was so much about redemption and I didn't get the game winning goal but but I didn't care. We, we were able to be USA on their soil and they had a great team and we had some, it was just a fantastic thing.

When I came home I went a couple of days later, I went into my office and searched through my drawer and found the envelope and handed to my wife and she read it.

You didn't tell her about it before any of that. Did you keep it a secret the whole time? Oh, yeah.

Because what if we lost or what if I didn't make the team right right now would have gone in the fireplace? That's cool.

Yeah. I've learned so much about you during this, but I'm always fascinated with, you know, your whole life, it seems just meeting you here for the first time, all about hockey all the time, 24/7.

What in the world would you ever dream of of doing other than hockey or have you delved into anything outside of the sports world?

That's it. That's it. Bye bye now. Take care. But, you know, I'm just getting ready for my second career with you guys.

You want to act? We may have a new slot open on a on the podcast. I will. And I are looking to wait.

What? Yeah, you know what?

I actually I've done some acting with well we've done some really special pieces together.

Well, the one at the NHL, we did we did some pretty good NHL pieces. I made a video. Right, Jimmy. And in every video he kept getting more insane.

Eventually I ripped my shirt off and then they played it at the NHL Awards and he didn't know and I don't know anything. But he was pissed at me. I know.

I know I was the best. But you know, what's funny is I was driving home the other day and I've heard this before, and I thought about you when you were imitating me. I was driving down the street. I saw a guy on the sidewalk walking with a woman. And I was like, that guy is a hockey player. And then as I pull up beside him, I realize he's the goalie coach for our minor league hockey team here in Toronto.

And I thought, what is the hockey walk, which I had I used to have as a player. There was this hockey walk. And then and then when I started working at the league, I remember being late for everything and I was now just walking like a New Yorker, you know, I was like it was like little short steps.

But that hockey walk, you do it well in that one segment where you're sort of cruising around the corner to the elevator bank. And I'm like, is that how I walk?

Is that how I you going to throw those big quads around each other? Right. For me, I want to thank you for your complimenting him. Listen, if you want to be a good player, you've got a big quite a lot Ozarks. I love there.

Oh, listen, one of you got to have a pro dumper to you need to have a pro dumper to play your job back souchong.

I feel like a bit of a dance. It is true that hockey is like occupied so much of my life. But I I'm one of these people that if I pick something up, I get addicted to it and I and really honestly the same as well. And Jason. Yeah. Go ahead. It's really right. Well, by the way, I do think we've all got it like Michael Jordan. People people say that about Tiger Woods when a lot of stuff came out about Tiger Woods, like I'm like he's an addict.

He's got the addict gene. And was it normal that a four year old boy plays golf for eight hours? No, he just got addicted to the right thing. And I find, like, a lot of the best people I know or most successful people that I've met in hockey, they've got that gene and they've just luckily channeled it in the right direction. But and I'm that way, whether it's gardening or cooking or just hanging out with my kids, like once I get into something I can't stop.

Right. Chenny Oh, my God, man.

Thank you so much for your time. Thanks, guys.

Thank you. Sharon, such a pleasure to meet you and learn about you and get to know you can't wait to hang.

Likewise. Thanks, Brandon, Jason, John, Sieper, Wendell, thanks very much and thanks.

Bye bye bye. So, Sean, that was that was hockey. Ice hockey. On the ice. OK, so like I I've done like, is that like figure skating? Sure, exactly. They just like Salchow double axel.

But it just means that you get to attack your competitors, you know, on the ice. You don't have to wait for them to leave the locker room and have your bodyguard hit them in the shins. And then you can just do it in plain view.

No, I mean, look, I've never been you know, I never watch sit down to watch hockey.

I do watch football. I do. I've ever been to a live hockey game.

Yeah, I went to the L.A. Kings once. It's fun, right? Yeah, it's fun. Yeah.

And I really, really genuinely wish it was a bigger sport in the United States. Why is that? Well, I mean, it's not like we don't have frozen ponds here in too many options, too.

I mean, it is huge. If you look at the northern states, Minnesota, Michigan, it's massive, just like it is in Canada.

But there are also so many big sports are the football is so huge here and baseball.

Basketball, certainly.

And, you know, why did football take off in the states and not as well?

Canada, you have the NFL because this just the stakes are lower. We have the Canadian Football League, which is eight teams, two of which are named the Roughriders. No joke. Right.

But I mean, they had the same the same timing, the same opportunity for football to take off there as it did here.

And well, just because the league because the league settles the border, the NHL, the hockey league, it means that it is bigger and there's more money and it's a bigger deal. When you have Canadian Football League, there's just not the same kind of they don't have the same money and resources that they can pour into it. So it just doesn't become as big. But hockey is that sport that, you know, look, Canada is just by virtue of being that much further north, you do the winter months or longer and it is just colder.

And it's as simple as that. It must be. Right.

It's definitely a factor. But, you know, you go to Toronto in July in the Toronto Maple Leafs are on the front cover of the sports pages.

You know, that's that's. Yeah, they're huge. I but anyway, how great was a lot of guys?

I love them. I would love to hang out with him.

He's the best dude and I'm just so happy for him and he's such a smart guy. And even if nothing else, he's really changed the way that people look at that team in Toronto. And he does that, right? Absolutely. And he's changed the whole culture. He's always had a long view on this. And, you know, he has this thing, the Chanta plan, which he's you know, sometimes people look at him for it and sometimes they try to hang it around his neck.

The truth is, he's really calm. He knows he's confident in the long term they're going to do well.

So, yeah. Well, that was fun, you guys.

That really, really was. I really, really liked meeting him. Love. I hope this virus goes away so we can get back out here to L.A. or we go over there and we go get a dinner.

Yeah, yeah. I hope your virus clears up to Jason and just yeah. I think wet wipes and a lot of sleep.

OK, if I just tilt down a little bit, you see, it's really we've been getting it's kind of weeping wound. All right guys. Super fun.

I is by smart. Smart bombs.