Hey, guys. Good morning.

Welcome to smartless.

Smart less. Smart less.

Smart less.

Mm hmm.

Oh, yeah.

Classic listener. We've got Arnett with, I guess, a shirt you're borrowing from Thoreau. Yeah, there's no sleeves at all on it. And I guess Jimmy Coco just left, too, huh? Cause your color's really even.

Let me just say this, okay? Nothing is more insulting to me, virtually nothing, than suggesting that it's a spray tan. Go after yourself. I earned this.

Well, you earned it by sitting out doing nothing under the sun with some sort of, like, a reflective board.

What are you doing? Building the stool you're sitting on or.

Yeah. Can you get your housekeeping shit together before we start the record? What are you doing?

I got some cord issues going on.

I do, too.

Messing with mine kind of wrapped around my chair.

Mine pretty much.

You know. You know what I've been doing lately? And this is a true story. We went to this big. I know this is going to air later, but we had a beautiful event last night for Jimmy buffet. For my friend Jimmy Buffet. And I was going to ask. It was awesome, and it was really beautiful and some great speeches and stuff, and a lot of people I know. So that part of it was amazing. And it's just.

Did you talk?

Honestly, I did not. I did a thing at the tribute at the Hollywood bowl, but last time I did, I saw one of the great speeches last night. That Downey. No, no, Downey wasn't there. One of the great speeches I've ever seen as a sort of. That was set up as a non roast and ended up being a roast, and it really blew me away. So hilarious.

I love those.

Wait, roasted Jimmy after he's passed?

Yeah. But. But as a tribute to him, an old friend of his, a guy has been friends with him for sort of 50, 60 years, and it was just. It was so good. And our friend Tom Freston, who's a friend of the podcast, made a great speech that we had.

You haven't had him on yet?

No, I'm going to. He's the most interesting man on the planet.

Can't make his deal.

Can't. Well, we're looking to, because he wants a piece, and he's just like Bo, and he said, send me over the numbers. I want to look and see.

Wait, Tom freshen. I met Tom.

Mister run MTV.

Tom Preston. Yeah, he started MTV.

I totally know him.

He's awesome, dude. His stories are. He's just the best you can book. I think he's writing a book right now, which it'll be anyway. Yeah. It was just. It was so, so, so, so good. But the reason I brought it up was this. At this thing, midsummer, and so many people. And now this many people come up to me, they go, either, wow, you're really tan. Or, why are you so tan? Right? And people can't help themselves but make a personal remark. And you know what I do? You know what I say?

Yeah.

And I go. And I go. They'll go, wow, you're so tan. And I'll go, thank you so much.

Right.

And I just take it as a compliment.

Well, why? It is a compliment.

You hold color like you're from Brazil. I don't understand it. You figure out a Toronto, you know.

Like, why do you guys bounce card?

But, yeah, we would just burn immediately.

But we. JB, you hold quite a bit of color, too. Let's be honest. When you play golf, you go, but I don't say to you every day, man, you're so Tanya, when we got. Mine's.

But. Sorry, Sean, hold it.

God.

I know we're talking about our color and our golf game. You'll wait. It's. My color is. It's got a hard v right under the chin, right from the hot shirts I wear. And then the little, you know, where the short sleeve ends, whatever that is. There's that tan line, and then there's the forehead tan line. Cause I'm wearing a sporty visor. Yours is like you're outside mowing the lawn with nothing on but, like, flip flops.

Yeah, I know. First of all, everybody's.

Sean, God damn it.

Okay. Are people okay with their bones, with you describing your v neck? Dad, we just had a bone epidemic. But. But you know what it is? I spend a lot of time, like, you know, me. You guys, I'm not, like, out in the Caribbean. Actually, I was. Last month. I'm at the pool. I'm in the pool with the kids. I was in the Caribbean a month ago. So that's part of it.

And we got it. Yeah, Sean. Go for Sean.

Well, I. My. I have this friend who tans his taint. Yeah, that's, like, a thing.

Is it really?

So you, like, you tan completely naked?

Wait, is that like bleaching?

I don't know.

No, man.

Oh, that's where you draw the line. I know about tanning the asshole, but not about bleaching it.

Yeah, I don't know anything about bleacher.

Yeah. How dare you. Fuck, here we come. This is a great, great segue into our high class guest, gang. Our guest this week is enormously accomplished in two completely separate but very public careers and has done so while remaining incredibly private and avoiding, for the most part, all the trappings of a Hollywood life. He's an actor and a musician, you two, not a celebrity and a rock star. Ok. In the movie world, he's received numerous nominations and awards, including an Oscar, a sag, a Golden Globe. He's worked with some of the greatest directors of our time, including Fincher, Malik Stone, Aronofsky, Villeneuve. As a musician, he's been the frontman of his band for over 26 years. They've sold over 50 million albums and toured the world multiple times. He's quietly been deeply involved in charity and the business world and the few remaining three minutes in his life. He's funny, he's easy on the eyes, he's a Capricorn, and I believe he's available. Let's help him out. Guys, this is Jared Leto.

Leto.

I just saw Jared.

I called it Leto.

Hello. Hello.

Hey, man.

Jared. Hi. You know, I'm very. I'm proud to say Jared and I know each other a little bit. I wish I was close to him. I was gonna ask, but, you know, he's busy, you know. Where do we find you?

You find me in Iowa today.

Oh, really? Are we acting or musicianing?

We just started the us leg of our world tour, which is called seasons world Tour.

Congratulations.

Shout out to Tracie in Wisconsin.

We were in very much. Thank you.

Yeah, last two shows, we were in Milwaukee and then in Cadat.

Oh, wow.

Wait, what's Cadad?

Yeah, where's Cadet?

Cadad is a beautiful little town in the middle of nowhere, and today we're in Des Moines.

So. Wait, is cadat in Wisconsin?

Yeah.

All right.

Wait, how do you guys. How do you guys know each other?

How? Just sort of crossing paths throughout our start as youngsters in the biz.

Is that true?

Vacationing, I think, was the first time on our little trip to ski town.

I have no idea, man.

It's been maybe, I don't know. But I have been very fond of you for a very long time, mister, and I'm so glad to be able to talk to you. Focus for an hour here.

Yeah, this is awesome.

I appreciate it. And this is actually my. I think it's my first podcast that I've ever done.

It's ours, too. Really?

I'm gonna fuck it up big time.

Listen, Jared, here's podcast that I try to get a word in, if I can say anything about podcasts, this is the first time any of us had done one. We started it four years ago, and we have not got any better. I would say we've gotten worse.

I would say I wore some pajamas. I thought someone might be in a pajama.

Yeah. Look at me. Here's the stretchy pajama pants and the fucking hoodie and the shitty t shirt.

Jared, before we jump into how brilliant you are in your music and your acting. What? You're so good looking. What do you do for your skin?

Good Lord. Here we go.

And this is for Jared, or is this for everybody?

We're done with your skin.

It's kind of amazing.

Jared, how old are you? Are you over 50?

52.

That's what I'm saying.

Shut the fuck up. You look great.

Yeah.

You guys look great. What are you talking about?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, you could play. And I mean this. And I love everybody here, including you, Jerry. Cause now you're with us. You could play Jason's son. And I swear you could.

But, you know, he wears it much better than me.

No, that's what I'm saying. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying he could play your son.

All right, so, Jared, so you are. So you're starting the domestic leg of the international tour or world tour, but this is what. Lap around the planet would this be for you guys? You've done it a few times.

Yes. Six or 700, probably.

No, six or 700 last.

No, no, I'm joking. But we. We started. We actually didn't tour for about six years. It was Covid. And then we were finishing an album. So the last time we did a world tour was, like, 2018. Did some dates in 2019, but we just. We did a few festivals last year, and then we started this year. I was filming Tron and Vancouver for four months. And then I had. I had a couple weeks where we went to South America to start the tour. And then after Tron was done, we went off to Europe and just did seven, eight weeks in Europe, which was.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Jared. I don't know if you guys saw it. Did you start. Did you announce your tour? Did I see this? Did you climb the Empire State building or some shit?

Yeah.

Yeah, I saw that.

What the fuck is that about?

Just go ahead and take 45 minutes to tell us about this.

Yeah, just a little stunt to, you know, launch the tour. I mean, it's better than just putting.

It on, you know? Exactly. But how did you not.

How did you not vomit?

Well, you don't jump ahead. Who comes up with this idea? Let's talk about planning. First of all, you're a rock climber, so this wasn't out of the blue.

Because of rock star.

No, no. I mean, I've climbed buildings before and I've always been obsessed with.

Yeah.

I mean, just. Just not. Obviously not like that. But I've always been really fascinated by the Empire State Building since I was a kid, you know?

Oh, wow.

You in King Kong, right? Just like, I gotta get up there. So how does that. All right. As I did a tiny bit of rock climbing with my dad when I was a kid, enough to know that it's a certain kind of shoe. It's a boot. It's a friction. Friction boot, I think it's called. Maybe something like that.

No, not at all. But that's ok.

This is close, but you need to.

It's called.

It's called a rock climbing shoe.

Yeah, that's it. I'm gonna write that down. And you need some sort of something jutting out of a flat surface to be able to kind of get some kind of a grip onto a building, almost by definition, is flat. So what makes you think you've climbed multiple buildings? How do you get up there? How do you do it?

Window sills little. You know, if there's kind of a stone feature, use those. But a lot of times it's just the structure, the features on the building.

But were you hooked in something or were you just freestyling?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we went to the Empire State Building and they said no about a hundred times.

You asked?

Kind of. Yeah, we asked and we had to. It was too big of an undertaking. And there's a huge section of the building that's not climbable. I mean, it is. Absolutely.

How about the whole fucking thing?

But it was fun, man. It was. It was an incredible adventure. And to sit up there for. You know, we actually did. Did it two days in a row, kind of a day to climb it, another day to film it.

What, so wait, so you're standing on the sidewalk, you're scouting it, right? You got to take a look at it up close first. And you. You recognize that there is a path, that it is doable. That in other words, that first windowsill you can literally reach and start your climb. I mean, stuff like that. I just.

Yeah, the first. Yeah, you say the first.

Yeah. Yeah. The first step is getting them to say yes. Getting permits to be able to do it. But they didn't.

Right.

You know? No, they did. Oh, because I think you know what their big concern actually was? Wasn't you falling off falling? No, it was me falling on top of somebody and killing. But I had some climber friends of mine that looked at it. A guy named Alex Honold from free solo took a look at doing that at one point and had decided, really, that the first section of it was probably not climbable unless, you know, he wanted to die. But the only way that I was able to do it was to get permission to get permits and I had to be roped up for the sections that I climbed, the sections that were climbable. But it was amazing.

Wait, so then you were going to free climb it?

Yeah. I mean, there's. Look, there's. There's a lot of terminology that gets confusing with climbing, but, yeah, I had to be roped up while I climbed the empire State building. Had I not, I would be dead, because I did fall. And, you know, it's a very, very difficult climb. It's not something you can just kind of do without a rope.

Yeah.

Jared, do you know that every night, and this is true, Jason, you'll attest this. Every single night, you get roped up, right? You don't smoke it, I guess you chew it, but you get. You get a head full of rope every night. Wait a second. So, Jared, Jared, I've seen a lot of those. I loved all those, like, free solo. And the other one about the guys who climbed in Tibet, all those amazing sherpas. You know that story, they climbed all those peaks. What was that one? They climbed like the seven peaks, was it?

Yeah, it's called something like that.

Yes. I mean, but sort of that. The kind of. The one consistent thing about all of them was that they just had this thing that I don't think most people have, which I guess you have, which is that sort of, they're missing that thing of having fear that most of us have, which that I have. You know, I start to get weak. My knees get weak when I climb a ladder that's above 10ft. You know what I mean? I'm like, fuck, man, if I fall, I'm going to die.

Right.

And so my question is for you is because all those people seem to have it and you have it. Did you always have that or did you kind of did it just over time, develop?

No, I still get. Yeah, I experience fear when I'm climbing all the time. I mean, that's what keeps you alive. But I climb with Alex quite a bit. He's a good friend. I climb with Jimmy Chin, who's about to go to. I think he's going to ski down Everest or something crazy.

No way.

But, yeah, these guys, they're professionals. I'm an amateur. You know, I do this for fun. It's a hobby for me. But there are a lot of times you have to negotiate with fear. You have to have a conversation with yourself. And it's a fascinating thing because you're. I've never heard people talk about death more than friends of mine that are climbing all the time. You know, it's a common. You're really close to death and I think in a way you're really also maybe a bit closer to life.

Right.

I freedive as well. And, you know, that's something where you're always having a conversation with yourself about negotiating your limits, negotiating fear. But I don't know. I love it. I think it's really fun. At the end of the day, it's just fun.

Is there any time that you actually got really close to that, that moment of doubt, like.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was climbing about Alex and I and Red Rock, where I live. I live in Nevada now, by the way. I moved there during COVID Oh, wow. And I lived ten minutes from some of the best rock climbing in the world. And I was out there climbing with him one day and my rope got cut.

Oh, God. On a rock.

I was about, yeah, 600ft up about two. I was climbing an overhang about 600ft off the ground and I knew I was going to fall, which is actually, you know, pretty normal in climbing. You sometimes you fall a couple of times and that's how you learn, that's how you get better, that's how you.

Kind of make it through and just. And for Tracy, like, you fall, but you don't fall to the ground because you've got a carabiner into the rock at some sort of say. So you're only falling that distance, which is maybe, what, 20ft? Something like that.

Exactly. Sometimes it could be 50ft, it could be 2ft. It really depends on. On the situation. But Alex was ahead of me and he was placing the gear. I took a fall. I swung out over the 600 foot abyss and as I was swinging, I felt the rope go pop, pop. No way. I looked up and I could see it starting to get core shot at the top. I saw the white innards of the rope pop out and I knew in those few seconds, milliseconds maybe, that I was probably gonna die. And if I didn't grab ahold of the wall when I swung back in. I was. That was it. So I swung back into the wall and I went to grab it at the last minute. Oh, I lost it and I swung out again and I yelled, lower me to Alex. And fortunately, he heard me. It was a very windy day and he was about 100ft above me on top of this mountain because he couldn't see me. I was on the overhang. And as I said, y'all lower me. He lowered. So the next time that the rope got cut, it was in a different spot.

And that time I managed to make it on the wall and he figured out how to get down because he's superhuman. And we had to cut the rope and kind of negotiate our way down the mountain. But, yeah, that was pretty fun.

I would have been. First of all, all the clothing I was wearing would have to be thrown out.

Yeah, right.

My pants would be filled with defecate. Shawn, one time, what was the thing, Sean, you said at the grove, you and Scotty parked on p four and you ended up taking the stick all the way down. Right. Because the elevator's broken, what we're saying.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That was my scariest moment.

That was the story.

At the end of it, Alex is like, you want to do it again? I was like, you're out of your fucking mind.

Yeah. Right.

And we will be right back.

And now back to the show.

But, Jared, talk to me about how you. What is that conversation with yourself when you negotiate with yourself about fear? Because I'm sure it's not just exclusive to rock climbing, it's about getting up in front of thousands and thousands of people, performing with 30 seconds to Mars, or taking on some of these incredibly ambitious roles which you pull off like no one's business. What is that? How is. I mean, I know it's a deeply personal conversation people have with themselves about kind of gearing up for stuff and asking yourself to give what you got, but, you know, give us as much as you're comfortable giving about, because you clearly have a lot of. It's not confidence, it's just. It's. You tell me what it is because you have it.

Well, I mean, I appreciate it, but I think you guys do that all the time. I mean, some of this stuff, it's different. You know, what can scare me more than a lot of things is having to speak in front of a lot of people.

Yeah, I don't do that well. Same up on stage with a spotlight as myself with a microphone.

And it's bizarre to come on stage most nights of the week, as you are as well. And, you know, even this is a public stage, it's, you know, so that that can always, you know, when you're just up there and it's you and your words, that can be a little intimidating. But I don't know, I think, you know, there's an inevitability. Like, when I'm on tour, you have to go on stage. And the weird thing about being. Maybe you guys have felt this as well. I feel more comfortable on stage than I do sitting here talking to you, or I would talking to a person at dinner. Like, I feel once the show.

Because that's a character, maybe. No, no, no, lead man.

No, no. The music is. Being on stage is the total opposite. It's the revelation of oneself. It's showing and sharing who you really are.

Uh huh.

You know what?

Yeah.

No, really quick. I was just gonna say, at my wedding, to Scotty, my husband, there was, like, ten people at our wedding. We were gonna do, like, a thousand. And my opening, in my wedding vows, I said, I feel incredibly comfortable in front of thousands of people or one person, but this is right in the middle of that, and that's where I feel the worst.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah. Sometimes I have acoustic guitar. I'm sitting there in the middle of an arena or somewhere. It just feels terrible. Known. It feels absolutely amazing. It's so comfortable. It's so. I'm totally at peace. And it's a magical thing, by the way. We're all this similar ages, and I have to say, I was talking to my brother, and my brother's a massive fan of the show.

Oh, no, I know.

I know.

Your brother's listener. He's been telling me from the very beginning, you gotta listen to the show. You gotta listen. Texting me all the time. Oh, my God. Happened on the show. Cause I go, okay, I'm gonna listen to the goddamn show.

Wait, Jared, you know that I know Shannon. We have mutual friends. I know Shannon.

Oh, nice.

He's a great guy.

He's the best. He's a great guy for people that don't know that are listening. He's the better half of 30 seconds to Mars. And we've been doing the band together since we were so cool.

That's so great.

You know, to be 52 at this point and to be on the road with your brother, there's not a night that goes by where I don't look at him, share a moment of gratitude, how lucky we are to be.

I want to come back to that. But before we leave this thing, just so I sort of close the loop on it, it sounds like what you're saying is there's a belief in yourself that you find, at the most critical moments that fuels you through something that might be insurmountable to some others that might not have that level of belief, that your ability to go through something that might be really super challenging, is that what it is?

I'm of the thinking that I actually don't have anything special to offer. I really believe that everyone could basically do anything that I do anytime they want to. It's a matter of a little bit of faith and a lot of hard work. That's how I look at it. I think everybody could.

But what's the faith? I guess that that's the part, is it's faith in yourself, right. It's belief that you can get it done and that you. You. You have the opportunity to make yourself proud, and you're probably not gonna let yourself down.

And the people around you, too, you know? Right. The people around you.

That.

That's a big driver for me, is to kind of. To make sure I don't let anyone down, whether I'm working on a film or I'm on stage. And, you know, the. The great thing that I found out about being on tour, being on stage, is like, I'm not there for me. I'm there for the audience and for my brother. And I am in service every night to make sure the person that worked their ass off to buy a concert ticket, which aren't cheap these days, by the way, has a night that they're never gonna forget. And I'm in search of that. Every night. All night. And that's a lucky.

It's interesting you say that, and I think it's. I also. I also have a similar thought process, which is that there are a thousand people who can do what I do. And I think about it all the time, and I think might be a bigger number, but.

Sorry, I'm gonna cut you off.

Sorry. Within. Within the greater Los Angeles area at any given time.

Sorry to minute.

It's true.

Sorry. Will, finish your play.

No, no, no. Listen, I get it. You're hungry. But what I wanted to know about was, when you say. It's interesting, when you say you don't want to disappoint anybody, you want to let anybody down. And when you're on tour and you're on stage, is that your brother? Is that Shannon? When you're working on a film, is that all the people around you? Is that the people at home? Is that an idea, sort of a general idea of letting people down? Like, is that something you've always had?

No, I think it's all of the above. And, you know, I don't carry that with me as a burden. I kind of. For me, that's fuel for the fire. And, you know, I don't know, maybe you guys feel this way, too, but when I'm on set, I feel like it's my job to try and be one of the hardest working people on the set.

Yeah.

My job, to absolutely deliver every single time that I come to set. Of course you're gonna fail, but that's the goal. To be over prepared, to know my lines, to know your lines, to know. To have a thousand ideas to bring to the table and to do and to really just to die for it and to also try to be the kindest person that I can be every single day and to be supportive and be a good partner. Like, those are the simple things that kind of continue to get me through it.

But when you're as prepared as you are, like you just described, that eliminates fear.

That's true.

I think it can help.

Right.

That's very well said. I think preparation is definitely a confidence builder. And, you know, sometimes if I haven't been on tour for a long time, I'm like, and we have a huge show, and there's a ton of people out there, and I'm like, oh, my God, how do I. What do I do? And then you get out there, and you just. Your body remembers.

All of this sounds like a really, really, really good work ethic and a deep sense of discipline and focus. Did you have that as a young kid? Was that something that you. That your mom taught you? Was it? Did you discover it in school? Come out of the box with it?

My mom. Yeah, my mom was and is a great teacher. You know, she's in a large part. I dedicated my Oscar speech to my mother.

Yeah.

And I had an opportunity. I always think, like, by the way, I never thought that I would win a single award in my entire life.

Those are the people that win much.

Deserved never, never, never, never would happen to me. Never ever. So I was like, well, I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to really thank the people in my life that have inspired and encouraged me. And first and foremost, that's my mom. And my mom, she was a single mom. We grew up really poor and, like, food. I was born in Louisiana, as was my brother, and, you know, my mother was high school dropout, but put herself back through school with two kids, single mom, and got a nursing degree and really worked and fought really hard to make a better life for her.

And you watched that? You observed that?

Yeah, and I saw that, and I saw her do, if there was a shift that came up, she would take that. I saw her do those extra, I don't know. There were these really long shifts, at least 12 hours, and then she would do night shifts. And I saw her work, and I saw her dedication, and I watched her educate herself. I watched her, and it taught me a lot, so. And she was always very creative and really kind of broke the mold in her family, so that was a big lesson for me.

All right, so you leave Louisiana. Where do you go from there? Where does the acting and the music bug start to bite you?

Yeah, well, I was in art school and studying to be a painter.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

There's nothing you can't do.

It's like, no, after a stint, kind of. It's funny, you know, I'm negotiating in my head things that I want to talk about or not, because I actually don't talk about a lot of this stuff.

We appreciate that, the fact that you're.

But it's something in my life, too. I'm like, I'm negotiating as well, of like, you know, how, how do you, you know, what do you share? What are you. Not as you. Yeah, I've been less precious fun about.

A safe interview, I've always felt. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, you know, you want to share things, and, you know, it's beautiful to share.

Well, can I say this, that maybe this will prime you a little bit? So I been joking recently that I know. I've been saying to people, for a guy who's a loudmouth, know it all me, I know embarrassingly little about arthem, and it's been like this blind spot that I've had my whole life, and I kind of started to own it recently. And as from the moment I started saying that, I've started meeting all these artists, painters. I met three I've met three new painters in the last 24 hours alone who revealed to me, oh, I'm a painter. And so I've been taught, and I've been reading this book about de Kooning. I'm boring these guys about, but I'm reading this book about, and it's been, it's kind of like now because I've been putting it out there. It's been coming. And I said to Alessandra my partner this morning, we rode our bikes down to the beach. I'm out here in Long island. Rode my bike down to the beach, and I said, I can't believe I'm saying this. I think I'm gonna start painting.

Yeah, I get it. I love that.

And I'm embarrassed because I feel like a fucking cliche, and I'm like, I don't give a shit.

I love it. I think it's.

I fucking feel it, and I don't know anything. I really don't. I'm a fucking novice of novices, but I feel really connected to it.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful.

Do you still do it, Jared?

You know, I don't paint that much. I draw sometimes, and I put a lot of my creative energy. And by the way, I think that's one of the important things in life, is to keep learning to keep. I always say I love to be the dumbest guy in the room.

Yeah.

And that's a fascinating room to be in. And I wish. Yeah. And fortunately, I have the opportunity to do that quite a bit.

Same here.

But, no, I think it's great to continue to learn to do new things and, you know, just to be. To be a beginner again.

Do you get knee deep in the artwork for the albums and stuff like that work? Yeah.

Too much, probably. Yeah. I'm the guy that makes, like, a thousand different album covers, but I think.

Yeah, but album artwork is always consistently been, like, to me, like, really cool or, like, concert t shirt designs and all that kinds. I'm a big fucking Radiohead.

I've been doing that, like, every three days, we're doing a new t shirt design. And, I mean, it's something. It's a consistent thing. I love that. But with the album artwork, I did a thousand different covers. And then, you know what I did? I did this little art project where I was taking a photo of the sky every day. Right. And, you know, after about three months, it gets really annoying, by the way. I'll tell you, I'd say to my assistant, I'd be like, can you just grab that photo today?

It wasn't from the same place every day, right.

But it's anywhere you are, it's just like, it's, oh, I forgot. And then you try to make up for it. But anyway, I had hundreds of photos of these skies, and I thought, oh, maybe that's an album cover. So I did ten different album covers, just basically cell phone pictures of the sky, and that ended up being kind of the basis of our artwork for our new album.

That's cool.

Which is called it's the end of the world. But it's a beautiful day. So it ended up being.

But by the way, Shawn, you got accused. Didn't you have hundreds of photos of these guys?

No. He said skies. He said skies. Scottish.

Got it.

I would take photos of it, and then I'd hear a knock on my door.

Sorry. My hearing is so bad. My hearing is so bad.

Jared, you reminded me of, like, reminders.

Of the same guy.

They remind me of this really cool documentary I read about you directed, where you simultaneously filmed a day in the life of 50 different. Of the 50 different states. Is that. Am I describing that?

I did something called the day in the life of America. Our album, our previous album in 2018 was called America. And it was that time when the world was kind of getting a little wild. It still hasn't recovered, I think, specifically America. But anyway, yeah, I was inspired by a book that I. When I was a kid in Ashland geographic, where they took photos in every state on a single day. So we sent camera crews. We actually had 92 crews all over the country.

What?

In every state? In Puerto Rico and as well, in Alaska. And we made this documentary about the kind of one day, and it was fascinating. We had the birth of a child. We had someone pass away on camera. I mean, it was like. It was a really. We saw it all, and it was on 4 July, so we had all the.

Oh, no, that's cool.

Yeah.

How do you like that? How do you like. How do you like directing and then directing narrative versus documentary? I know you do a lot of producing, too. Is that. Are those areas that you're looking to challenge yourself on as well?

Well, I started off, and I was a painter in art school, and then I took photography class, and I got obsessed. Be in the dark room, you know, I don't know if you guys have ever done that, but that's a really fun thing to do, to kind of shoot and develop your.

Go ahead, Will. That's a great tee up for you.

No. Hundreds of these guys in a dark room.

You work on it and come back and interrupt them.

But wait, wait, wait. Jared, I want to talk. I want to know about you becoming a painter. Like, when. What was that like?

Well, I grew up around my mom was, you know, had a hippie mom, and she had a lot of really creative friends. And I always thought that I would either be a painter. I don't know.

My dad was a painter and a photographer for real.

Oh, wow. Yeah, I love both those things. He was really. This is awesome. My mom is a great photographer, and I grew up around seeing her photos, and she taught me a lot about photography when I was a kid. So one day I was. This school had, like, a performing arts section to it. I would go over and watch the actors, and I always thought, man, that is terrifying. They are so brave what they're doing, running around out there on stage, and I didn't understand any of it. I was like, this is just insane. But I asked the school, I started taking a film class. Like, film as. As a kind of, you know, fine art. Not. Not like film as cinema, those Hollywood movies. So I fell in love with that. And, you know, just like film history. Get a.

You'd like, watch classes?

No, no. We would go. They had, like, Bolex cameras that you rent.

You'd shoot filmmaking.

Yeah. So you'd shoot film, black and white film, and then you'd have to send it away to get developed, and we would. We would edit using razor blades and tape. And, I mean, there wasn't a single computer. I remember the first computer that came into that art school was a Macintosh, and nobody used it. You know, it just sat in the corner.

The Apple II.

Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, I was studying painting. I fell in love with photography. I took a film class. I switched my major to film. And then I asked the school to create a. A class for directors about acting. And I bothered him. I went there maybe 200 times, and the lady kind of looked at me frustrated one day and says, you know what? I admire your persistence.

What does that mean? Directors for acting.

Acting for directors. Sorry.

Acting for directors. Gotcha.

Acting for directors. So I thought, like, okay, I'm studying film. Even though it was a kind of arty farty fine art film. But we should understand what acting is. But I had this little secret. I was. I thought, this is interesting.

Yeah. And it got. It got more attention in your mind than directing?

Well, I. They created the class after I bugged them, and there was like, I don't know, maybe four or five people. We were doing, you know, acting like animals and doing all these experiments and, you know, I don't know how much I learned in that class, but shortly after that, I had dropped out of college.

I ended up in California to pursue acting.

Music and acting. Yeah.

Yeah. That's awesome. Unbelievable. It's really. It's really cool how you've been able to keep. But it's just like, you know, as I said, sort of in my crappy intro that, you know, you've been incredibly successful in both of these careers. Like, enormously successful, yet you've managed to not, you know, lean in and take the bait and eat the junk food that. That propels that kind of success and notoriety into celebrity ness, if that's a word.

And it's just not.

Well, you. We. We all fail a lot, right? I mean, I always say I fail more than anybody that I know. I fail all.

Well, you're just getting to know me.

Yeah, but, I mean, like. But Jason's point, it's like, you don't get sucked into that. Is that a conscious decision? Do you say no to a lot of things because you like to stay private? Do you say no because you don't want to deal with it? I mean.

Well.

Or it's just not you.

Yeah. I mean, I'm actually an introvert. Yeah, me, too. Which is bizarre because of my choices out there as far as work goes.

Yeah. Cause you're a movie star and you're in a rock band. It doesn't seem like a perfect spot for an introvert to live. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's a strange thing, but, you know, when I'm done with the show, I literally.

You just get quiet.

The show? Yeah. I go to the hotel room, get food, and, you know, turn on Netflix, and that's it.

Yeah.

Donzelle Washington.

Yeah.

Wow.

We'll be right back.

And back to the show.

What is. What do you. Aside from that sort of. That decompression routine of just kind of getting quiet, getting by yourself, watching little tv, is there anything else that you can really rely on that gets you to your small self? And is it reading? Is there, like, a video game that you play or whatever? An app on the phone or, like, from Willie and I, we play, like, frickin word games on the app on the phone. Do you have golf? Sometimes gets us, you know, quiet.

Yeah. For me, I have work. I love to work. That's my favorite thing in the world to do. I love to work, work, and work some more. And if I have some time, I like to climb. Yeah. And then I like to free dive, which I just started a couple of years ago.

What's. Yeah, I want to talk about that freedive off la big blue.

Like the Luc Besson film.

Yeah, le grand bleu.

Yeah, le grand blue. They say enquirer. Well, I take one. No, I see my mistress. I have a coffee. Cuckoo. Every french person. Every french person that come in the room, like, sort of like saying hi and they'll go, cuckoo.

Why, why is that?

I, I had this woman who I worked with and I was living in the south of France and I could hear from cuckoo, shut the fuck. Why cuckoo?

Why do they say cuckoo?

It's like the englishman with the pip pip. Right?

Yeah. It's just kind of like a you. It's almost like a yoo hoo, but it's like.

But wait, so this is diving without oxygen?

Without, yeah, it's not a lot of people, when you say freediving, a lot of people think jumping off a cliff like me, it's not, you know, freediving is either. People focus on depth, people focus on time. There's static diving, there's free diving.

What's the kind of, what kind of depths are we talking about right now?

I like to dive through caves. That's my point. But not with a tank.

Right.

So there's no way out. Will.

But again, I'm a beginner. I'm a beginner rock climber. I'm a beginner. Freediver.

Well, your beginning ass just went up the Empire State Building in your diving cave. So you're doing okay.

I'm doing okay.

How long can you stay under? You can stay under. Let me guess, let me guess, let.

Me get some time.

Okay, but let me, let me guess how long you can hold your breath. And I know this oversimplifies things. It dumbs it down for us idiots. I'll bet that you can get to three minutes pretty easily, Will. Sean, do you have any guesses?

I was just thinking about how long I can stay under propofol, like an.

Hour or when you choke yourself out. How long you can stay before.

When I get the, when I get my belt around the, the top of the door jam. When I'm trying to, just, when I'm trying to squeeze one out, I'm gonna.

Say, what's the record? No, because I saw, like, something.

I'm gonna say three and a half. I'm gonna say three and a half minutes, Jared. That's my, Jason said three.

I'm gonna say four.

I'll say four, Jared.

Absolutely. Yeah. Three minutes for sure. Four minutes for sure.

No way.

Oh, people go a lot longer. That's not a lot for. That's not, it's that it's not impressive at all in the world. Freediving, that is a beginner now, are.

There, okay, so where are the great caves in Mallorca?

Sardinia, Corsica, all the beautiful places. I just was in Greece. There was some good stuff there, but I focus on depth and I focus on caves. I've been. The deepest I've gone is 108ft.

Jesus Christ. Well, you need ten minutes to re acclimate or whatever as you come back up, don't you?

No, you don't have to. No, that's only with scuba diving. Yeah.

Wow. Okay.

So you just use your lungs.

He doesn't know anything. Jared, why don't you just, like, take up reading men or something? Are you jumping off cliffs or swimming into cliffs?

Why don't you just get involved with the crown? You know, bunch of seasons you can watch.

You know, there are a lot of shows I've never seen that I've been waiting to see.

What do you want to see? What's that? What do you want to see that you feel like you missed out?

What was the Game of Thrones? I never saw.

I saw the first season, by the way.

I never saw the Simpsons. I never saw family guy. I never saw South park.

Me too.

But I did see Ozark. And I would annoyingly, Jason, and often with, you know, thoughts on the plot developments and characters and how much I love the show and just, you know, kind of fawning.

But when you give me notes, I'd remind them we're locked. Pictures locked. So let's keep it to compliments. I have a question.

I have a question for all three of you, because you're all wonderfully sober, but do you think you do these. These climbings, these divings, like, all these things? Because they take the place. It's a rush that takes the place of a drug.

No, I don't think so. I. I find them to be very peaceful when I climb and when I dive. I mean, you're really. You're. You're. You have to remain peaceful if you're 100ft under the water. You know, sometimes what's wild is you have this. You do have a conversation about death with yourself because it's scary sometimes. And then you have these moments of peace that are just outstanding.

It's almost like drugs sometimes, or alcohol, at least for me, was sort of the fun of kind of escaping from being inside myself and kind of, you know, adding a little of this and adding a little of that and going to sort of a different version of myself. Whereas it sounds like your experience is the opposite arrow and it's just a real internal thing.

Well, it compels you into the moment, being on stage, being underwater, climbing a rock, that you have to be present.

You don't have to be so present.

And you're not thinking about your phone. You're not thinking about your job, your girlfriend, your boyfriend. You're not thinking about any of that. You're thinking about what's right in front of you. So it's incredibly simple and primal. I think, in some ways, yeah.

I should note that I don't think I've been wonderfully sober. I think I've had a few missteps over the years, definitely. And it's always, for me, it's been a process. No, of course it's been a process for me. And as we say, again, a process. Sure. But we. But, you know, you get to know yourself a little bit better, and I do find those things. It is. It's a combination of what Jared said and what Jason said, which is, for me, is about being present and being okay with being present and trying to accept where I am. And it's all about. Right. It's all about powerlessness and all that sort of stuff and realizing it and being. And realizing where you are and where you sit in the world. I don't know about you guys, and not to a crazy degree, but I've been thinking a lot more about my mortality the last few years.

On the backside.

Yeah. And I think about. I was saying last night, Jared, you might have heard me waxing on about this memorial I went to. And I was, like, thinking about, we all are here for this one visit. We're not making another trip.

We got five minutes, right?

We're on this. It better be good, and we better be happy. And I'm just. And we're all just trying to figure out how to get it.

I think I'm coming back. I'm gonna. I want to come back as Jared.

Yeah, I know. Jared. It would be pretty good.

But wait, Jared, I have two questions really fast. One is about Tron because I'm a huge fan of the fans.

Yeah, he's a big Sci-Fi fan. Are you as well, Jared? Is that. Is that what brought you to this?

Super fan.

Oh, wow.

Super, super fan. Tron and Blade Runner were the two movies that really changed my life.

As you've been in both.

Yeah. Bizarre. So I'm living in my simulation over here for sure.

What can you tell us about Tron.

Without revealing we've been developing for almost ten years?

Yeah.

And it's called Tron Aries.

And is it pick up right where the last one left off, or.

In a way, yeah, it does.

Yeah.

Yeah, it does. So, yeah, I'm super excited. And for me, like, one of the highlights was working with Jeff Bridges.

I was just gonna say, any conversations with him on this one?

Oh, God, he's just the best.

Oh, my God.

I had one take where I had to, literally had to say cut, and they were like, what's wrong? Something. I was like, no, I just can't stop fucking smiling.

Yeah. I love that guy.

He is every, you know, it's money back guarantee. That motherfucker gives you everything you ever want all the time.

I think it's a great idea. And correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it where the Tron world gets transferred into the real world?

Yeah, it's kind of the opposite.

It's such a great idea.

A little bit of the Terminator thing where that technology comes out into earth.

Oh, I like that.

So smart.

I like that. Yeah. It puts it in context that we can kind of understand a little bit better, maybe too, for like.

And then tell me, because I love. Because I do a lot of theater, I love horror stories about live shows, and I know you do a lot of live shows. Was there any kind of crazy, like, fan interaction? Somebody rushed the stage.

Oh, every night.

Completely lost the lyrics.

Every night. Every night we just played. I mean, the show and cadat was incredible. I mean, I fell in love with, like, the entire audience. It was the craziest group of, like, shit kicking, awesome Americans you've ever seen in your life. Absolutely insane. There are two people dressed like beetlejuice. Another guy came. I literally brought a guy on stage who was wearing. Was it an american flag speedo or was it just american flag speedo?

That's where it went, Will.

Yeah, but let me tell you, I was just, like. I was smiling the whole time. I'm so grateful to be in front of these people, and it was just incredible. So, yeah, I've had the worst things happen and the most amazing. Every night there's a catastrophe of some kind. Like, the mic goes out, you fall.

Over, you're playing all these major, major cities around the world. But I also see here you got a couple sold out shows coming up in Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan as well. What's.

Wait, wait, what?

Yeah. What's it like touring all these incredible corners of the earth? Do you get out and visit the local markets? And do you have time to plant for a day or two? Are you on to the next place always?

Oh, absolutely. Even yesterday I bought a bicycle a couple days ago in Wisconsin. So we just take that out after the show. Before the show, on the day off. Explore.

Wow.

Yeah. And, you know, this, this summer we were in Paris and in London, but we're also in Poland and we're in Italy, and then we're headed to Sweden and to Kazakhstan. It's just incredible.

Do you have a thing that is a constant in each one of these cities that you like to check out, whether it be. Be the food or the museums or the churches or the. Or the. Or the whatever, that you just have to see their version?

No, I think, you know what I love to do when I'm on tour is I love to walk around the cities and kind of get away from the tourist areas and walk through, like, residential areas and see how people are living. I find that's a really good way to fuel the culture of a specific place. But the nice thing is it's not going to Poland for the first time. It's going for, like, the 10th time, the 15th time, because you find you go back to that restaurant that you found, you know, seven times ago. You have a connection with the people and the place and the food. Yeah.

I want to see you play. Do you have any plans to come through LA anytime soon?

Yeah, you know, we are. We didn't put an LA date on this tour.

Yeah.

Strategically, we actually are going to play a show next year, which is the 20th anniversary of our breakthrough album, which was called a beautiful Lie.

Yeah.

And we are going to play a show in Los Angeles to celebrate that.

Oh, that's great. That's great.

That's next year.

And do you have a venue picked yet? I mean, are we making news?

You know, we're making news, but it'll either be a Hollywood bowl or a forum or something like that.

Oh, yeah, great. I want to see that.

Jared, is there. You've done so many things. Is there something you look at other people doing that you won't do that? You're like, oh, I dive, I climb, I do movies, I play in front of millions of people.

You know what? Yeah. Theater.

Really?

You'd be so good.

You know, I'm gonna tell you why. And it's. And it's. And I. Because I have so much respect for it, and I know how hard it is because I've had so many friends do it, that I just feel like I'd rather enjoy that than be a part of it. I'm also on stage a lot as it is, so I don't have maybe the same itch that other people may have to kind of perform live because I'm getting pretty satisfied on that other side of it. But, man, what?

I'm gonna make a prediction that you're gonna do a play in the next five years and you're gonna win a tony just like sweet, shiny Hayes did. Yeah, I know.

Congrats on that. I heard about that.

Will you not be surprised when I hit you with a text when you come to town next year? I'm gonna come rush the stage with my speedo flag outfit.

So it was you.

I would love for you. I would love for you to come. I would love for you to come and introduce a song that would be so great. You could sing a song. You play the drums.

I don't even sing in the shower. You don't want that. But I thank you so, so, so, so, so much for this hour, buddy. I hate that it's got to be a podcast so that we can visit, but I'll take. I'll take what I can get.

And it's an absolute honor to be here with you guys. And I'm really blown away by what, what you've created. It's something so special. It's, well, back to people. And, you know, my brother's gonna be psyched I didn't tell him I was doing it this morning. Oh, that's cool.

All right, well, enjoy the rest of my first podcast. So, yeah, you crushed it. You crushed.

Absolutely destroyed.

Apologies to everyone if I fucked it up. But I, you know, you did not know.

You killed. You killed it.

Thanks, Jared.

I appreciate.

Thanks for being here, Jared.

We love you. Later. Wow.

Look.

And put this on.

There you go.

You can do that or you can slam it.

Yeah, that is, that is, that's Jared Leto. I just love the guy. He's just always so smooth and personable. Honest, real.

I could have talked to him for two more hours.

Yeah, we'll get a number for him and then we'll make that happen.

But, you know, he's like, I didn't want to embarrass him with it, with the acting stuff because I know that, like, Joaquin, like, they're both, like, for my money, top five actors in the world, and they just don't like to talk about how fucking great they are and the roles that they do and the process that they, and probably our listeners don't want to hear about that shit either. You know? The process. No, but, you know, but he's fucking so goddamn good.

Yeah, he's so, he's so good, JB, and you're so right. And that it's one of those things that those, the great actors all kind of share, which is they don't talk about their process in that way.

Right.

They're not like, hey, some.

And, hey, let me show you.

It's like a magician. Like, I'm not telling you how the fucking trip goes. Just enjoy it.

Yeah. They're not. They're not looking for. They're like, let the performance speak for itself and then talk about my life and stuff. But I'm not gonna kind of walk you through so that you're impressed with my. My process.

Right. Or you're starting to identify those things you heard him talk about the next time you see the performance instead of, like, enjoying, sort of, like, pretending that he's somebody else, which is all it's about. It's simple.

Right?

Yeah.

He's.

Well. Well, he's good. It's decided. He's really good at what he does.

Yeah.

And by the way, what he does. And then he has this, and then it's. So it's a full blown rock band. Yeah. You can't call it a sideline.

Yeah. No. Right now, it's arguably more successful than his acting career. Potentially. I mean, 15 million albums, and it's been. It's been. It's been around for 26 years, and they're playing arenas, you know. Come on. That's like winning an oscar every year.

Yeah. That works so hard. He works harder than you, obviously. Sean, right now working on a buy.

Because I was going to say.

No, I was looking at her. I was going to look at what he won the oscar for, because I know he won an oscar for him. What was the name of the movie? What was it called?

You tell us.

It's Dallas Byers.

Beautiful, beautiful, shiny.

I can see you, but. Sorry. Buy smart less. Smart less. Smart less is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbico, and Michael Granteri.

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