Well, listen, I'm really thrilled to be here with you two today. I didn't think I was gonna make it.

What happened?

JB was. He was close. He almost didn't make it through the weekend. And then the doctor, they decided to revive him with two almonds. Brought them back to life.

And they come and they go. Clear.

Pop pop. I was a little lightheaded yesterday, but. Two nuts in my mouth. Really? They fix a lot.

Brought you to life. I know how you feel. Welcome to smart less.

Smart less.

Smart less.

Smart less.

Hey, JB. JB. Before Rob. Low. Rob, show yourself again real quick. Just, let's see. Armyarv. And he said, JB. Rob says to Sean, I've got your favorite sports team on my. Says, spaghetti.

Says, spaghetti.

That's fun. Isn't that fun?

It's fun. It's good, clean fun.

It is good, clean fun.

So. Good morning.

Good morning, Jason. First things first, please. You know I'm obsessed with medical stories. Please tell me what happened to you three, four days ago.

Oh, well, I'm still in it, unfortunately. Well, it's just things. Things are loose. Okay.

Oh, Jesus.

And, you know, it's. I think, what it is. God bless my wife. She is more on top of the health stuff than you are, even. Which I guess is not that high of a bar to leap over, considering you mainline meatloaf and everything, but. So she gave me this, some sort of supplement for longevity. Right? It's like a peptide or some. Something or other. Huh.

New or. Been taking it?

No, no, no. Yeah, just a couple weeks ago, and then she had me take even a little bit more last weekend, and that's what did it. I'm pretty sure that's it.

Well, first of all, we ruled out immediately food poisoning. Yeah.

Cause it would have had to have been bad lettuce.

Well, because you would have had to eat, eat, eat. So that's off the table.

I know, but, like, flu.

The flu. Like, if you'd had, like, a stomach bug, it would have moved through you by now.

No, it's still. Yeah, I'm fatigued and I can't eat. And, like. And look how puffy my eyes are, too. It's like, whatever this thing is, like, I gotta stop it and. Which I'm doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Very good.

Yeah.

It'd be great if the longevity thing killed you. I mean, I just.

She did say she got a deal on it.

But I'm glad you're feeling better than you were before.

Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had to cancel a day at work. I haven't done that for a long time. Yeah, but you guys are very, very sweet.

You're.

You're just, you know, you guys. You guys are a couple of the good ones. I don't care what they say.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're.

You're.

And you're incredible at reading ads. Didn't you guys just win an award for your ad reading?

Did you guys? I think we all did. Right.

Well, wait, am I a part of it?

Yeah.

You want to get to our host?

Yeah.

And so, you know, this guy sure is a media titan. He's incredibly smart, incredibly funny. He is responsible for one of my favorite shows. I was very sort of not nervous, but this show has gone through a couple of hosts, and I was hoping that it would land on somebody even better. And they have. And he's got multiple irons on the fire. This guy's just. He's cycle high, I think, is what they say. Say, you know, he's doing tons of stuff and it's all fantastic. I'm going to let him tell you about it, but I'm very, very excited he said yes to doing this today. Any guesses?

I can't.

I have no idea.

Chris, he started in stand up. An additional hint, he hosted a political comedy show on Comedy Central. First name starts with t. Last name starts with N. Trevor Noah, everybody. It's Trevor Noah.

Trevor Noah.

It's Trevor Noah.

It's Trevor Noah.

I mean, what's going on, everybody?

Hey, everybody.

From the original sort of lead in, I thought, or set up, I thought it was like, this is like a newscaster. We got like Walter Cronkite.

I was confused for a moment. I genuinely thought it was someone else.

Yeah, usually I write these things, but this fricking job I've got in New York, it's really cutting into my prep time. So this interview is going to be even worse than the normal one.

Yeah, I was thrown, but then you said the name, then I was like, okay, we're good.

You're like, oh, it's me, it's me.

I mean, let's start right there. I mean, did you feel the pressure I felt when. When you were going in there to take over this incredible show?

Yeah, I mean, so here's the thing. When I was going in to take over the Daily Show, I don't think I felt the. I don't think I felt the amount of pressure that I should have felt because I didn't grow up with the Daily show. And I met Jon Stewart just as a you know, sort of a stand up comedian meeting another stand up comedian, you know, and, I mean, we, we still talk about that now. You know, now that John has gone back to hosting the show, we'll, we'll still share the stories of how, ironically, the other day we were on the phone and I was saying to him, it's funny that we've gone full circle. When we first spoke, it was on the phone, and I was traveling through, like, Dubai and England doing comedy shows. And then now when we spoke and he's host again, I'm traveling, and I was literally in Dubai calling him, having another conversation. It's literally gone full circle. So it's been a while, but, yeah, I wasn't nervous. And then I think after the first few episodes, then the nerves kicked in, which is strange. Normally it's the other way around because.

Now you've got a better idea for what it is than you did then.

Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely. And a better idea of how people reacted to it, you know, I think that was the biggest.

Cause it's so important. It's like this great, it's sort of this Trojan horse that's on a network, you know, like it's helping all the medicine go down a little bit easier. The medicine that's so vital for all of us to be taking in.

Definitely, definitely.

What joke really kills in Dubai?

Huh? That's an interesting.

And then tell us what joke you can't tell in Dubai.

So what joke really kills in Dubai? Whenever I travel for my shows, it makes it a lot harder. But what I love to do is find comedy that I could only do in that region.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I always try and find something, you know, whether it's an observation, whether it's an experience, but just something that you could only say in Dubai and then some of whom not living there. Yeah. Would go, wait, what does that mean? I'll try to tell a few jokes that have, like, an arabic punchline or, you know, I'll play with something in that world.

I mean, isn't that, isn't Dubai like that super rich? Like, isn't, aren't they incredible? Isn't everybody incredibly wealthy?

Hang on, let's go for the definition of it. Go ahead, Sean. Try to be less articulate. Go ahead.

Have you ever been outside the United States?

Oh, of course. I know Dubai. I was wondering, like, what kind of jokes do you tell about, is it like, every, every single human being there super wealthy?

Yeah. Well, I mean, the Emiratis are pretty wealthy, but then most of the audiences is expats. I think it's like 90%. Yeah, 90%. It's one of the most diverse audiences you'll perform for.

Oh, that's so great. I love that.

Did you ever get up there when you were coming up in South Africa? Did you ever get up there and were any of your dates up in that area?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, when I had to take over the Daily Show, I had to let go of a bunch of dates that were happening around the world. So I just got a foothold into touring all over the, you know, all over the planet.

I've had to do that a lot. Let go of a lot of dates all over the globe, because I've just didn't want to. Because I didn't want to seem like.

I want to know, you know, when you first came on the scene sky blue.

Sorry, was that not it?

Yeah, no, that's because it's a reflection of the ocean continuing. So, trevor, when you first came on the Daily show, that was my first discovery of you. I was like, oh, what a glorious, wonderful discovery of this man. But before that, bad on me. I didn't quite know. So, like, where you came from or what you.

Nor should you know. Yeah.

So what was life before that and what led you to getting that job?

It's funny, you know, I'm never offended by that. And, I don't know, some people apologize for that. Again, I find it's quite common for people to say that in America. They'll say, I'm sorry I didn't know you.

Strange thing, because it's such a massive platform, we feel badly that we didn't follow your career before you got the big shot.

Usually you don't know somebody before you know them. That's how knowing people works. I'm always intrigued by that.

I'm writing that down.

But now you can't walk down the street.

I'm sure that's how knowing someone works.

Do you think Einstein apologized to physics before he learned it?

Yeah, right, right.

But you were. You were crushing it in stand up such that you met with John.

Yes, yes. It was really random. I was. So I started comedy in South Africa, performed there my whole life. I was lucky enough that.

What part of South Africa were you?

So I was born in Johannesburg, raised in Soweto and Johannesburg, and then that's where I did most of. Most of my comedy. We didn't have a comedy club. So just to give you a bit of a backstory, I'm assuming you know, but if you don't so during apartheid, free speech was illegal in South Africa. Right. And so you weren't allowed to gather. You know, a group of black people weren't allowed to be in one space, and there were all these laws. So stand up comedy, obviously, you know, it's one of the first things that's outlawed in any place that restricts speech.

Wow.

So we didn't even have. We didn't even have comedy clubs. We didn't have anything. And then once democracy started in 1994, all of a sudden there was a just like a boon of new, you know, a boon of people being like, can we sit together? Can we laugh together? Can we? God, that must have been comedy blew up in the most informal places. You know, comedy was this huge explosion.

And you were how old at that time?

No. So I only got into comedy in 94. I'm six years old. I only got into comedy when I was 20. I want to say 21, and it was still new. You couldn't make a living from comedy, which I loved about it. It really was something that everyone was doing. It wasn't like in the US where people would do comedy so they could get a sitcom, so they could become a movie star, so that. No, there was. You do comedy because you like comedy. There is no.

And also escape the horror of their. Their upbringing.

Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's what all comedy is, even in the US, to be honest with you. Yeah, I think everyone's doing comedy to escape their horrible upbringing.

But you actually. You actually wrote a book about it, too, right?

Yeah, yeah, I did.

Which became a. What did it sell? Like 3 million copies?

I don't know. I don't like numbers, to be honest.

Well, it did very well.

No, no, no. I mean this, honestly, you know. You know why I don't like numbers when they're good and I don't like them when they're bad.

Right. So you and me both.

Why don't you like them when they're good?

Because. Because if you live by the good numbers, then you must die by the bad numbers.

Yeah, absolutely.

Creating. You should just create. And then.

Very good.

I'm so with you then. You're not at the effect of outside circumstances. So. So, Trevor, so walk me through. So you come. You come up in a. In a place that is almost, you know, that has just a very new comedy scene, if you will.

Yeah, yeah.

And. And now you go. You start touring, you do lots of great stuff, then you take over the Daily show and you just absolutely explode onto the comedy. Into the comedy world. When you go back to South Africa, is it safe to say that you're kind of like the first big south african comedy star? And is there a lot of pressure associated with that?

You know what? Not pressure. Not pressure. We. It's. It's so much fun, man. It's hard to explain. So the difference between the two places I find in America, fame is. Is almost like royalty.

Right? You know, that's why people apologize if they may be unaware of. If you had some beforehand. Yes.

I was not aware that you. Of you. Of your. I apologize, my liege.

Silence. Nave.

Were they. Were they in South Africa?

It's just like. It's just like people know you. Everyone just treats you like you're part of a big family. That's how it feels.

And was that. Was it. Was it, was it equally welcoming when you came back and you were now famous? Or were they like, oh, were they sort of circumspect and like, let's see if he changed.

I was pretty well known before I left South Africa, so it was just like, oh, congratulations. You've gone and put us on the world stage doing something that's great.

Wow.

So tell me about. I imagine when you were doing a bunch of touring, you got used to life on the road and all the bumps and bruises that go along with it, and then you got this incredibly prestigious job, and I'm sure we're making a whole hell of a lot more money than you were before and getting used to thread count, nice candles and soaps and the lot. How has it changed you and made you more soft now? And it's tougher going back out on the road, I'm sure you know, I know you're playing arenas and stadiums and stuff, but, ken, is the old Trevor still alive?

It's funny, my life went the other way around. When I first started the Daily Show, I was actually earning less than I was doing stand up around the world. I was working hard, and I was doing pretty well, so it was really taking the job because of the challenge and the opportunity. As for the thread counts, I think my life became a little bit worse because now I was in New York in the winters, walking down the street in, like, a mini blizzard, walking down, like, 11th Avenue. I don't know if you've been to the Daily show studios in New York. It is one of the worst parts of New York. Like, in one of the worst parts ever.

And it's not that. It's not, like, worst part. Just for to clarify for the listener in that it's dangerous. It's just more that it's shitty.

Dangerous would be better, because then it means people are there to do something to you.

Yes, exactly.

This is like a waste. It's like a barren wasteland of nothingness.

It is such a fucking nothing area.

Yeah. It's just a pocket of nothing.

So tell us about the meeting with John and how that whole sort of idea sparked in John and how he approached you and what the. What that conversation was like.

So I got a call. I was, you know, it's one of those moments where you remember exactly what was happening, but not because of how momentous it was in that moment, rather because of how random the thing is that I was doing. I was in London. I was doing my. My first tour of the UK. And on this particular day, I was standing in Harrods, the mega department store that sells everything. And when I say everything, I mean everything. You all probably know it. And I couldn't afford anything in Harrods. Maybe like, you know, maybe some of the croissants. I don't know. And the old. I was standing in front of an underwater moped.

Mm hmm.

Like a. Like an underwater scooter thing. Like, you ride it like a motorbike, but underwater.

I have one.

Yeah. Don't bore will. He's got one for him and all four boys.

Wait, an underwater moped? Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Like, you see, this is what. This is what my brain was doing at that exact moment. My brain was doing the same thing. I was just standing there staring at it, going, what is this? Why is this? And why don't I try and get one?

And try to hold your breath while you ride the bike.

No, it has a little bubble. You know, like those old, um, those old sky, that. What do you call it? Like the diving before they had the tanks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bubble over your belt.

It has that as a bubble. And then my phone rang, and it was some long number. I had no clue what. And I answered the phone. Cause I don't owe anybody money. And the voice on the other end was like, hey, is this Trevor? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, hey, this is Jon Stewart. I was like, okay. And he was like, John Stewart. I'm a comedian from America. I was like, oh, okay. And he's like, you've never heard of me. It's fine. Well, I've seen some of your stuff online.

And you're like, sorry, I don't know you.

And. And. And he said to me, yeah, I saw some of your stuff on, on YouTube. And I want to know, if you want to, would you ever consider coming and doing stuff in the Us? And I was like, yeah, not really. Maybe. I don't know. And he's like, well, I work on a show called the Daily show. And I was like, oh, I think. I think I've heard of that. Because I had. I'd seen it on CNN International because we didn't have it on other channels in the world. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, I've heard of it. He's like, oh, as you should have, young man. He's very funny, you know, john. Yeah, yeah. And then he invited me, you know, he was just like, come. And he said, come and hang out. I think you're funny. And I like the way you see the world. Come and. Come and hang out with me when you get a chance. And so at first I said, no. I was like, I've got the tour. And he's like. He said, are you saying no? What did he say? He said, are you saying no to the trappings of american fame and popularity?

Who are you, young man? I said, no, I've got a tour. I'll see you when I see you. And he said, well, if you're in New York, look me up. And I said, definitely. Thanks for the call. This is nice to hear from you. And then I went to New York. I think six months or eight months later, he called me again. He's like, I hear you're in town, but you didn't look me up. And I was like, oh, Jesus, this guy's relentless.

Wow.

So you hadn't told your agent about this phone call?

Who would have?

Probably.

No, I think they gave him my number because they were like, it's Jon Stewart.

What if you'd hung up the phone with Jon Stewart? And then the woman at the desk at Harrod said, sir, your underwater moped has been paid for by Mister Stewart. I gotta go do baller, this guy. Yeah, I gotta go.

I mean, then you say yes immediately.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Then it's like a full on.

So he tracks you down eight months later in New York.

Yeah.

And then he says, come have coffee.

He said, come to the show and hang out. Yeah, just hang out. And that's all I did. I went there, we hung out. I remember them talking about, like, John Boehner or something, and then I was like, what is this world? What is going on here?

So you had no idea about the political landscape in a country?

I mean, the larger in the rest of the world. We keep up with american politics, you know, on a big scale, but the finer minutiae, you know, of filibustering and.

Sorry to interrupt again, but the John Boehner story wasn't about him crying in some kind of, like, hungover with, like.

Red wine on his teeth? I think it was then. It was around that point, yeah.

Okay, so you didn't really learn all the specific small time cretins that populate the house. Yeah.

No, I did not.

Gotcha.

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All right, back to the show.

What year did you come to the US?

I think this was, this was 2015.

Okay, so 2015, and then you're doing a comedy tour. Jon Stewart's hassling you. And at the time, who, what kind of comedy stuff were you into? Like, you.

So, you know, this is actually interesting. I remember somebody asked me, they said to me when the Daily show happened, they said, so are you going to, they said, are you a political comedian? You know, the Daily show is very political. And I said, oh, no, no, no. I'm not. I genuinely was like, I'm not a political comedian. I don't even, I don't think of myself that way. When I spent a little time in the US, I came to realize that what I thought of as non political humor would be considered ultra political humor in America.

Right, right.

Because here the average person doesn't. I think it's changed since Trump. But back when I first got to the US, most people didn't engage in politics. You know, everyone, people would literally say, like, oh, I don't, I don't follow politics. I don't get involved. I don't follow politics.

Right, right.

Yeah. Whereas in South Africa, what we consider a basic level of commenting or being involved in the system, we don't think that's political. For us, political is marching in the streets, freeing people from prison, like protesting the system. That's being political because in most parts.

Of the world, just being engaged is sort of your civic duty.

That's the baseline, right.

No matter where you're South Africa or Dubai, where isn't it full of, like, rich people or something?

Anyway, that's the spot. So, but I'm so fascinated that John and the rest of the brain trust over there thought that you would be a great choice to take over a show that is a mix between comedy and politics. So it necessitates a full understanding of the comedy world, a full understanding of the political world, such that you can blend the two together, find the nuance, find the irony, and wrap it all up in, you know, a bunch of jokes for half an hour or more. Like, talk to me about how did they explain to you what their expectations were and how you needn't worry about not even being from here and haven't lived here in a long time. And how did that go?

Well, initially it was, I always described the story as feeling a lot like Charlie and the chocolate factory in that I popped in, I had a great time with John, and I said to him, I was like, this is, I like what you guys are doing, I guess, but this is not for me. And then we laughed about, we would just, man, because John and I just, we get along. We really, you know, there's, there's comedians where you click with them and your rhythm and your vibe is almost completely sympathetic, or you just, you're just in it.

I'd like to find the person that doesn't get along with Jon Stewart, though. I mean, he's like, oh, yeah, great guy. Yeah.

But the comedy is like, you know, when, when it comes to comedy, I find there's a, it's like music. All musicians can play together, but some musicians can create magic together. And when you find comedians that you, that you share that with, it's pretty.

There'S beats and rhythm. Go ahead.

As you can see, I'm still looking.

We've got them on a separate volume.

Sean, real quick. Sean, Sean, real quick. Any follow up questions about the chocolate factory? It's not a real place, but if you have anything that you'd like to. Isn't that full of people who like chocolate?

I have a thousand questions about chocolate factory. Oh my God. Last night I made an ice cream sundae and I didn't have any whipped cream, so I made whipped cream.

Oh, great.

Oh my God. Are you ready to screenplay about it now or what's happening? Hey. Hey, Trevor, would you, would you say, would you venture to say that actually coming here, kind of a follow up to what Jay was saying, that being an outsider gave you perspective, almost a bit of an advantage, I would suggest, because you don't have american politics or what we've sort of takes for granted as to how the system works and what the dynamics are between the different, the left and the right, if you will, just to make it as basic as possible because you come in with a different perspective and you just take.

It as face value. Like, oh, this is a clown show. As opposed to being a somewhat padded with understanding the whole political system and that it's kind of a joke anyway.

So I think, I think it's a massive, it was a massive disadvantage and an advantage. The disadvantage is people don't like anyone who doesn't look like them or sound like them coming to tell them anything about them. So I spent weeks getting random death threats and letters. People hated how I said controversy and then it was, you know, controversy.

Controversy.

Yeah, controversy.

But did you really get death threats, Trevor?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, I mean, that's, that's quite, it's like it's par for the course. I've learned as soon as you comment on american politics in a public forum, that's, that's pretty much what happens to you.

Yeah.

So that was a disadvantage.

Here's something I don't, I don't get about the whole, the whole phoning in or emailing in a threat, a bomb threat or a death threat. Like, aren't those the exact kind of threats you don't need to really worry about because who the hell would warn you before they play? Like, I don't, I'm certainly not belittling it whatsoever, but I'm always like, I can't believe that someone will clear out an entire office building if they get a bomb threat. It's like, well, if they're, if they want to put a bomb in there. They're probably just gonna do it and not tell you about it.

So the irony that you look so much like Ted Kaczynski right now while you're saying this. Killing me.

No, I just.

You know, I get they. I get that they've got to empty the building for insurance reasons, because they. There's going to be a record that they received the threat, but.

So to that, did you. Did you ever feel genuinely threatened in a way that was not just a sort of a random. Sure.

Of course.

I don't know. I mean, it's scary. Yeah. There's a latent level of anxiety that comes with anybody threatening you. And again, I need to. You know, I need to state it. I don't think it is. I don't think it's that uncommon. You know, I'm pretty certain all the other late night hosts have gotten death threats. It's just. It varies during the game.

Kimmel gets one a day.

I think I've threatened Kimmel twice this week already.

On the beginning, Will and Grace. We used to get death threats all the time.

Ah. They. They.

In 1998, so.

Back then. But was that, like, people sending for shitty jokes or.

Yeah.

You know, we have fun, Trevor. We just have fun.

No, that was because. Wait, what was the question?

What were the threats about it? Will and grace.

Oh, no. Yeah, they were written on. Yeah. People took the time to sit down. There's one. There's r1. This wasn't a death threat. One of the greatest letters we ever got was this woman wrote in to Will and grace. Took the time. Got a pen, paper, wrote it, got a stamp, mailed it. Like, remember before the Internet and everything? There's a lot of effort to really share with somebody how much you hate them. But this one woman wrote in, and she said, you know, we're all going to hell. You should be ashamed for putting this on television. You are all horrible people. But I love the show. I just don't know what. I just don't like what it's about. Oh, wow.

And could you send me an eight by ten?

Yeah.

Can I get some tickets for the April 12 show?

The craziest thing.

That's so fucking crazy. I guess it stands to reason that you would get threats. I mean, do you get threats immediately upon doing it? I guess. I'm sure that a lot of the threats were. We can all take our pick what they could be about. You're a lefty, right? You're a liberal. Or.

Well, and also you're in, I mean, 2015. I mean, you were. The kerosene had been put on the dumpster and it was about to burst into flames.

Exactly. That's exactly it. Twelve months later, it was the beginning of. It was the beginning of Donald Trump and everything that America now lives in as a normal state.

Yeah, man. So that was the majority of your material. And so they're going after the person that.

I mean, think about that. So you're right. You started, you came to America, as Jay says, right at the beginning of the, they were just putting the kerosene, the kindling on the dumpster fire that we all now live in. That's been your experience of America. Let me just say we've had some good times here, dude. Yeah, I'm now, I'm now amended with it. If I get the time machine, what I'm doing is I'm grabbing Trevor and I'm taking him back to like the mid nineties, into the mid two thousands, because we had some, we had a.

Lot of good times.

It looked like a lot. It really was a lot of fun.

I don't want you to get the wrong impression.

Happy days are here again soon, I promise.

It's also wild that people, instead of just not watching you or listening to this or watching that or whatever, they take the time to watch it and then comment on it instead of turn the channel. Instead of just turn the channel. Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, at the time, it was so hard launching the Daily show that I actually preferred having those people than not. I was like, okay, we have these people.

You had an enemy, right?

No, not even an enemy. I was just like, we have viewers, these people are passionately watching the show, and we need every single person to watch. So there was actually one guy I reached out to. There was a guy who was tweeting vitriol at me just on the daily. He was like, you're a piece of trash and you'll never make it. And if I ever meet you in the streets and I dmed this guy, and I said to him, hey, man, I just really want to understand, like, why do you hate me so much? I've never met you. I've never said anything about you or your life. I'm just trying to understand this. And I've never seen a faster switch of tone. He immediately was like, oh, hey, dude. Oh, it's not personal, and I have nothing against you. I just thought it was funny to pile on. And he said, in all honesty, I have nothing against you. I actually think you're quite funny, but I don't think you're gonna succeed. I think the show will fail, and you're gonna burn and crash and burn. And then I said to him, okay, let's make a deal.

If I'm still on the air in six months, you'll stay on as a lifelong viewer. And then if I'm gone, I will retweet your tweet, and I'll say, you were right. And he was like, oh, deal. And then he was like, good luck, man. I'm wishing you the best. And then six months later, I dmed him again, and I was like, yo, are you still watching? And he's like, oh, the show's gotten so great. And you know what he made me realize? No, but you know. You know what he made me realize? I'm honestly eternally grateful to him, because he made me realize that most of. Not all of, but most of the. Just most of the poisonous infighting that you have in America is due to the fact that most people are speaking past each other, not to each other.

And with each other, 100%.

People don't actually engage. People don't see each other as human beings. It's all a theoretical exercise, but you'll be surprised to find that most people, when you sit down with them, and actually, if you're forced to have a conversation where you connect, people start to see each other as humans that exist beyond their political affiliation.

A lot of assumptions going on, too.

And it's just a game. It's like. It's like. It's like sports fans. I think american politics has become like sports, where you say everything to the opposing fans, but you don't mean it. Mean it. But you go like, this is the purpose of what we're doing. We're here to tell them that they need to die, and we want to kill their players, and we hate everything they do. And the ref is biased when he rules in their favor, but when you meet in a grocery store, then they're humans because they're doing the same thing.

They were basically exaggerating to make a point, you know? But, yeah, when you. When you get face to face with it, they. They get a little bit more real.

Yeah. I mean, I hate Manchester City as a. As a football club. I.

Wait, what?

Yeah, I hate Man City.

Uh oh.

But then I also signing. But I love Pep Guardiola, and I love Holland, and I love Kevin de Bruyne.

I've never met anybody who has a. Like a.

Well, because I'm a Liverpool supporter. A massive Liverpool.

I'm a Liverpool supporter. But I don't hate Manchester City just.

Because they're going to beat us.

Yeah, but I mean, they've spent the money and it's like I get annoyed, but I know, you see, it's funny, that's where that, like, for me, the rivalries are more games that I'll think of. But, man, Manchester City, I find my.

Point was I say I hate them, but then I like all the players on the team, okay? I like Pep Guardiola, I like Holland, I like De Bruyne, I like Phil Foden, I like all their players and then, so I don't really hate them, but I have to because they're made. I do hate the Boston Bruins. That's a hockey team. That, that I do. I do hate the Boston Bruins. Send me your letters. I don't give shit. Fuck you. I fucking hate him more than you.

Fucking, like, hate me. Trevor, now, have you, have you since now become, is following politics a hobby for you now? Do you enjoy it or now that.

You'Re out of there?

Yeah, you don't need to be in the swamp anymore.

So I don't follow politics as a hobby. What I try to do is understand which conversations can exist beyond the noise. You know, I often try and explain to people when I'm having conversations with them is, so the most interesting thing about the us system for me is the fact that it leads people to believe that there are only two ways to do something.

Mm hmm.

You know, it's Republican and it's Democrat. And I've never understood that framing, to be honest with you, I've never even understood how, how newspapers will report, and these are like distinguished newspapers. They'll write a story that leads with Democrats, win with, and it's a law that's changed. But I go, no, that should just be the law has changed and that should be how you report it. It shouldn't be that it's a win for somebody or a loss for somebody else.

It's a lot of the media. It's a lot of the media, how they frame everything. Yeah, too.

So I follow it now to try and understand where the issue lies and the politics ends, because issues are real. Politics are how we try and solve the issues. But politics is not real. It's not actually a real thing.

But, Trevor, and I'm not being coy here at all, maybe this, I think you've probably noticed in this country, certainly, that there's not a lot of appreciation in any aspect of life for nuance in this country.

You're either on this team or that team.

Yeah. And it's very binary, and it's always a sort of a zero sum game that is part of the american experience. You win, you lose. There's no nuance.

That is true. That is true. I will say, you know, if you, if you want to liken it back to sports, I always say to say to my american friends, I go, I see why soccer was never the most popular game and might never be. It's because in soccer we have a draw. We sometimes say, you know what? Neither team won. Neither team lost. This was a great game. Everybody go home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

Winners and losers. And so if, if politics is also about winners and losers, then nobody wants to concede because it automatically means that they've lost, which isn't a good way.

To have politics as opposed to compromise.

Yeah. Politics should never be about winning or losing. It should be about compromising. And then, you know, understanding that the majority, it's even strange. Do you ever think about it when you look at America's results? I'm always shocked at how states are called blue or red, and then you look at the number and it's like 51%. And people confidently say, well, that's a red state. And I go like, but it's 49% blue.

Right.

Or vice versa.

Everything's half and half. Yeah.

Right.

Everything's right in the middle. Yeah.

Well, if you think, and this is true, I think, for politics in general. And so I don't mean to come off as completely naive, but the idea that the actual politics are more important than the policy is absurd. Right. All of the politics is supposed to be a mechanism by which we sort of, that sort of drives policy. Right. And that it should be what people are concerned about, what the actual issues are. And they're not. They're in, they're much more invested in the game of it. And as you said, the win or lose of the game.

Yeah. But a lot of, a lot of that I will blame, you know, to what you said, sean, is like, I think the media has to take a lot of blame for that because the media has enjoyed turning it into a game and the media has enjoyed turning it into a spectacle. And so if they reinforce that narrative, then I find lawmakers. You know, one of the most interesting experiences I had when I first came to America was I went to New Hampshire for the primaries. And this is literally, I've been in America for barely a year now. I'm in New Hampshire, you know, and Vermont and all of these places. And I will never forget seeing there were two politicians who were, you know, on the stump, and they were giving their speeches, and it was vitriolic. And they were, you know, this person's gonna destroy the country. They're gonna do this. And then in the evening, I saw them at a diner, and the two of them were sitting together, laughing, and they were like, how's your family? How's everything going since I was a kid?

I don't understand that.

Yeah. In many ways, it's almost like wrestling. It's like american politics. You see these people in the ring and it's like Triple H. I'm gonna.

Rip you limb from limb.

And as a fan, you're like, yeah, kill him, kill him. And then only to find out that, like, your favorite wrestler who hates the other wrestler, in your mind, is actually great friends and is the godfather to their childhood. I think american politicians don't do a, they don't do the country a service. They do it a disservice by not showing everybody that they do get along, that they go out together, that they have meals, that they're friends, they're weddings.

Also, like, I think language is important, too. Like when, when, you know, whatever Republican or Democrat says, who's ever in office, they, they say, well, the Democrats thought blah, blah, blah, or the Republicans thought blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you have to say the Republicans in Congress feel this way or the Democrats in Congress. What happens is it generalizes everybody. Well, I'm a Democrat. Well, I'm a Republican. You know, now you're telling me that we all think that way. No, it's just the lawmakers think that way. You know what I mean?

And also think about the idea that, look, it's the spring of an election year. Of course. Again, at risk of sounding completely naive, of course they have to pit them against each other because they need to drive ratings, because we know that all of it is driven by commerce. Everything in this country is driven by commerce. And so if there's no race, if there's no, they have to say so and so is leading by this. If the election were today, these are the weak spots. He's ahead, she's ahead. He's going to crush. He's not going to crush. They have to keep us in the game.

And these have to be more discerning.

Yeah. Because they need us to watch the commercials in between. So if you really want to get mad at it, get mad at CNN and MSNBC and Fox, all of them, because they're just all they're doing is in service of commerce. That's it.

Yeah, yeah. It's completely in service of come. If I would. If I break it down into three levels, I'll go, you know, on the media side, I wish they would stop turning it into the spectacle that they do, but they probably won't, as you say, because the money's there, or that's what they want to get. You know, once you turn it into.

Sports, get the best ratings in this country. So if they can turn it into a football game, they'll do it.

Yeah, but on the ground as well. I think as people, that's something that I found strange coming to America, is how people would say, I am a Democrat, I am a Republican. And I'll be like, what? What does that mean? Where I come from, people just talk about how they voted, but they are not the thing.

Right.

You know, and I think. I think if you take yourself away from being the thing, you allow yourself the opportunity to either be disappointed by the thing or step away from the thing when it is necessary. You know, because it shouldn't be a sport. You shouldn't be. I am a liver, like, I am a Liverpool supporter. Is correct. We will go up and down with Liverpool.

Yeah.

Whereas in politics, you should just say, oh, I voted for this, and then I voted against it. And it's like, I'm not that thing.

Well, imagine if you imagine we lived in a world where you can just. All you did was, you weren't voting, there was no such thing as a party, and you just voted on issues.

Yeah.

Right.

We'll be right back.

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And now back to the show.

Noah, did you. So what about hosting? Like, do you still want to keep hosting? Is it something like. You're like, I did it. I'm moving on to something. Airbnb.

Oh, no.

Or, like. Like, would you, like. Do you have aspirations to host the Oscars? The, like, award shows, or any.

Well, you've. Yeah, the Grammys. How many years now, right?

Oh, that's right. I forgot.

MTV and the Grammys has been fun. I've done the Grammys a few times now.

Now, were you a huge music fan before that?

You mean, was I human? That's a strange question. Who doesn't like music? Jason.

No, but I mean, like, people are obsessed with it.

Jason doesn't know what humans do, dude.

Well, maybe a better question would be has your passion for music increased since you've been behind the curtain? A bit?

And I, by the way, apologize. Of course. I've watched on the Grammys. I completely forgot. Yeah. No, no, you're fantastic.

You know, what can I establish earlier?

No, no, no.

Don't do that to Sean, guys. Don't do that. I know. I know what he means, and I'll tell you why, Sean. It's funny. I don't think the Grammys is the same as, like, the Emmys or the Oscars or any of those shows, because.

I'm an actor, so I'm like, I watch those more.

Yeah. But also, the Grammys is like a. The Grammys is like hosting a concert. You know, the Emmys and the. And the Oscars and, you know, all these other awards, they do feel like an award show. The Grammys just feels to me like a conformance, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I've definitely developed a greater appreciation for artists. Seeing them rehearse, seeing how hard it is to get everything right, seeing them do it live, that's. That's what's. What's definitely increased. And then also my. My palettes like this. Every time I'm at the Grammys, I discover a new artist that I now become a fan of.

What about a full genre, like. Yeah, definitely country. Are you a fan of country?

I listen to way more country now than I ever did. You know what I mean? Everybody like. Like the Luke Combs, you name it. I just got into it because you would hear the song so many times in rehearsal and you'd see how amazing it could be, and then you. You fall in love with it.

I, Tracy, chap that Tracy Chapman performance.

Oh, my God. I just.

Amazing.

I cried my eyes out.

I know I'm not a huge. A lot of the music at the Grammys is not really my taste generally.

But it's all kinds of music on the Grammys now.

But I'm such a, like, nineties indie rock.

So they would have awarded your bands years?

Yeah, if it was, like, bill to spill and dinosaur junior in the pixies, I would have been like, ah, great. But. But then I watched that Tracy Chapman and you just forget what an unreal fucking talent she is.

Yeah. Trevor, what is. What is. What is. What is the. What is the phone number that you. That you've gotten from hosting the Grammys all these years that you're most proud of? Which artist, what famous rocker do you now have on your phone?

Oh, I don't have anybody's number, to be honest with you.

You don't. You don't go, hey, hey, hey. I'd rather hang out.

I was in a band. You can have my number.

I would gladly take your number. This is a strange thing to say, but I always found it strange that people would try to be friends just because they're in a similar space. So I don't know how to explain.

You're famous. I'm famous. We should hang out.

Yeah, but. Okay, so this is what would happen to me. All right. You would all probably understand this. I remember when I first came to America, and now I would get invited to events because, you know, part of the daily show, and you go to these events and everyone would be like, oh, we should hang out. Take my number. Take my. Oh, my God, Trevor, we gotta hang out sometime. We gotta get a coffee. We gotta get a coffee. This guy's great. We gotta get. Let me get your number. Where are you? I'm there all the time. We gotta do it. And I would give people my number, and in my head, I was like, wow, I'm making so many friends. These people are so friendly. This is amazing. And then I would hear nothing from them. I would message them. I would hear nothing. They wouldn't respond at all. People, by the way, people in Hollywood change their numbers all the time. Like, I don't even know who. Like, everyone has, like, a new number all the time.

Yeah.

And then. And then what would happen was this was my favorite. One of my favorite memories. I met somebody, and this has happened a few times. I met the same person at another event maybe like a year later, and they're like, oh, my God, Trevor, this is. Oh, man. How have you been? Congratulations. And, man, we gotta hang out. Let me get your number. Let me get. And I was like, I think you have my number. And they're like, no, no, no. I changed phones, and I got a whole day. Didn't your number. I was like, my number didn't change. Like, no. And then I put my number in on their phone, and, you know when you type it in on the screen, then my name just popped up, and I was like, you have my number? Wait, what?

Yeah, yeah.

And then what? And then what? What did Justin Theroux do?

Oh, let me tell you. Okay? I have the great. The greatest Jason Bateman story. For me, at least. For me at least. This is one of. This is. I don't know if you remember that. This is easily, easily my favorite memory of you. It's also a horrific memory, but now I laugh at it.

So I can't remember yesterday. So chances are high.

I was so. I was invited to a. It was a Netflix party before one of the Emmys, all right? It was for, like, a whole bunch of nominees before the Emmys, and Ted Sarandos was hosting this event, and everyone's gathered, and it was. I mean, it was star studded. It was crazy. And you don't. You don't see these people all the time. That's the misconception everyone has, that if you're on the same platform, you just hang out.

Right?

I was. I was just standing there, you know? You know, and I look across the garden where this event's being held, and I see Jason, and I'm like, oh, my God. And I've loved you forever. I go easily one of, like, my favorite comedy performers. I mean, all of you are in different things. Like Sean, I used to watch Will and grace with my mom. No, no, no.

This is.

Don't throw the compliment away. I mean, it. Like, literally, the timing, the cadence, the. Everything will, everything you do on, like, BoJack Horseman. So I love comedy. I love. But less.

Right. With Sean and.

Well, yeah, I mean, you. I mean, this going forward, you are easily one of my favorite funny people ever. But at that time, Ozark was just. It was my life. It was the best. It was anything I had seen that had flipped the whole genre of, like, you know, drugs.

One of my favorite comedies, too.

I thought it was very funny, actually. So. So I see you, and you see me standing across the way, and you look at me and you just gave me, like, a little, like a little eyebrow, like, hello. You know? And I was like, oh, damn. Okay. And so I walked, I walked over to you and I said, hello. And you were very kind. You're like, hi. How? And I immediately went to. I was effusive. I said, I love everything you do. And I just. I went. And I said, you did this? And I was like, I love game nights and I love this. And I was just listing everything off because I love. I genuinely love them all. And. But then I said, I said to you, I said, oh, and most recently, you crushed it. You know, I didn't think ant man was gonna be good, and it was phenomenal. And you listened to me break down the whole ant man everything. And then, and then you paused.

Uh oh.

And I swear, it was like you had written this. You, your face, you went like, huh? And he said, do you think that I am Paul Rudd? And I will never forget at that moment. And I went, no, I thought that Paul Rudd was you.

I gave him.

But it's true. I was like, I gave him. Your performance is how good I think you are. I just. Anything good he did, I was like, it should be Jason Bateman.

I guess I strive to be Paul Rudd.

We all.

And we just stared at each other awkwardly for a moment and you said, huh? Did you come here because you thought I was someone else? And I said, no. And you said, but you said, ant man. And I said, I would rather. I would rather say that I'm racist and you will look the same than admit that that happened. And then we just stood there awkwardly for a moment and you were very nice. We just stood there and we, and I said, well, one day we will meet again, hopefully under different.

And what I should have said is, don't worry, I'll never remember this because I know how to pour cement over bad memories.

JB, do you remember that? That.

I do not.

He doesn't remember anything, Trevor. By the way, don't take it personally.

No, no.

All I know how to do is remember is remember dialog that my brain at an early age was, was formed into that being a one trick. I'm a one trick pony.

I could.

What about a coat? What about. What about a coke dealers number?

Uh, yeah. Yeah. Still.

Do you remember that? Yeah.

Do you remember old dialog, though?

No. I have a great delete button, too, so that I have, you know, room on my. On my drive for.

To not remember the other things.

Yeah. He's one of the all time great dialog, incredible memorizer.

But I will go. I'll go to a movie with somebody, and two days later, I'll talk to that person. I'll go, you know what I saw a couple days ago? You got to see this movie, right? I've done it. I do that dozen times.

What does that mean? I do that, too. Sometimes. I'll do it to Scotty. I'm like, I was at this movies like I was with you.

I mean, it's terrible, but maybe it's good because if I'm with somebody who feels so comfortable, I mean, it blocks.

Out the bad memories, right.

Early on, some is that.

That could be. It could be just a trace.

Why are you saying early? You think you're young?

Not that young.

Just slight fucking complimenting to yourself, Trevor.

Here's another one. Here's another one. Before you carry on, this was. Can I just say so you know, obviously, I'm a huge fan of the podcast, and I understand the format, but here's the thing. I didn't know that the surprise guest was really a surprise.

Yeah.

Okay.

We didn't know you were gonna. Come on.

We've only broken on a couple times.

Yeah. So we. We were at the Vanity Fair Oscars party, right?

Yeah. And I saw.

And.

Yeah.

And Will. And Will walks by. Will walks by. You walk straight to me, Will. But you walked to me with the confidence of somebody who knows that I'm coming onto the podcast. And you were like, hey. And then you said, yo, I'm so excited. And I didn't know what I was like.

Oh.

And then I was like, I'm so excited to chat to you. And then as I said that, Jason was behind you staring at me like I had killed his whole family.

But he couldn't hear.

He couldn't hear anything, by the way. He was just staring at me. And I said, I'm so excited to chat to you about Formula one. And then we started talking about Formula one.

Interesting. It was funny that you said that, now that I remember you saying that. And I was thinking like, man, he's really into Formula One. He's really honed in on me on the Formula one, and he's been looking.

I was panicking. I was like, oh, I screwed the whole thing up. And then I was like, oh, let's just get into Formula one. And you did look at me like, man, this guy really went deep into Formula One in the middle of an Oscars party.

Right out, right? Yeah.

And then you walked away. And then Jason came up to me and he said, please, you did. You didn't say anything. You don't, you don't fuck this up. You, the surprise guys. You don't, you don't, you don't say anything. I didn't say anything. And then he walked away.

Didn't you say that to him?

You said.

I said, it's funny, I had somebody else at the thing as well that same night after you, Trevor. I won't say it is because I don't know whose guest it is. Come up to me, and it's somebody I've known a long time. And I go, what's up, dude? He goes, I'm coming to talk to you on your stupid podcast. And I go, well, I didn't know that, asshole. He's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Rockwell did that, too. Poor guy.

Oh, yeah, Rockwell did.

Do you like getting gussied up like that, traveling out, by the way, Trevor.

Let me tell you something. You look.

Yeah.

Really cool. Very sharp.

Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. I've never heard that term, gussied up.

Gussied up.

Yeah. Yeah, we got some beauties here in this country.

You ever been to Illinois? No. Okay.

No, no, I've never been everywhere, actually. Yeah. No, I do, I do. I do enjoy it. Yeah. I mean, I went to. So, in South Africa in school. You wear school uniform your whole life, so I actually like dressing up like that because I feel like it's. It's no stress. No, I go, yeah, you put on the pants, you put on the jacket, and, you know, you're doing right, and then you're lucky.

Women have it so tough.

Yeah, they do.

Like, find the gown and then those shoes on.

Yeah, I wear comfortable shoes. My toes are all individually spaced out. It's wonderful.

You know, I think that when you said women have it so tough, they were expecting something a little more than the shoes and the gown, but. Okay, well, hey, this is how we get into.

This is how we get into the entrepreneur, Trevor.

I want it. You know, I brought it up at the start talking about Africa, and I want to know how often you get back to Africa. I'm so. I've never been.

I've never been.

I'm depriving myself. I really want to go.

This is the same thing. This is the same thing I get in most of my hate mail. When are you going back to Africa?

Oh, no.

Well, can I. Let me just add to that. Can I go with you? I want to go because you're kind of like the dude. Do you get back often?

I go back all the time. Yeah, I'm there all the time. Especially, like, since I left the Daily Show, I get to go back a lot more. You know, I spend time with my mom, spend time with family. I'm there. I would say I'm there, like, every two, two months to.

Really?

That's so nice.

That's great.

Yeah.

I love how long a flight.

16 hours from New York and then 20, it becomes like a weird 25 ish hour journey from LA.

So. Yeah, 16 hours direct South African Airways. Right.

Yeah. No, no, no. Actually, united's the only airline that flies. There's now.

Really?

Yeah. So, you know, the life giveth and life taketh away.

Yeah.

And America, your new adopted home. Do you generally. What's your take on it? Do you like it? Do you have favorite places?

I love this place. So here's the thing. Yeah. Here's the thing about America, is I think, again, you see, nuance is maybe what is lacking sometimes. I think people take for granted that you can live in a place where you find it both amazing and at many times disappointing, depending on what you're experiencing of it.

Yeah.

You know, people sometimes walk up to me in the streets and they'll be like, you hate America, you piece of trash. Why don't you leave? And I'm like, who said I would not live anywhere I hate? Let's start with that. Secondly, I genuinely find a lot of America amazing. And I find. I find it's the optimism that is etched into the very fabric of the country that I find amazing. You know, it's an amazing country where black people, at a time when they had no rights, believed that there was a path for them to get equal rights, even. That is a strange level of optimism that I think is beautiful and profound.

Yeah. Considering how they were living. Yes.

Yeah, that's exactly my point.

Yeah.

And so incredibly ambitious and productive.

It has that, and I think it's a wonderful trait to hold onto and to never lose. And so while America has many faults, other countries have many. I travel all the time, so I'm under no illusion. I don't think of America as best or worst. I just think every place has the issues that it is dealing with at the time that it's dealing with them, you know? So you. Yeah, no, there's something I've always loved about Americans and America as a place and how different each state and each city is. And you know, I'm eternally grateful to be here.

You're a west coast guy or an east coast guy.

I split it. I find the east coast is great for your mind, the west coast is great for your body. And I mean your body. Not physically, but just like your. I feel like you breathe a little more, you sleep better, you eat better, you. It just has a calming effect on you. But the east coast is great to get your brain just like really stimulated and going.

Yeah, I agree with you. There's a lot. And I moved here when I was 20 from Canada, so it wasn't that far. But I do agree that there are so many great things and I give this country a lot of shit. But I've been here a long time and there's so many great things about this country and I agree with you. But it's important for us to point out this stuff to be honest about the shortcomings because it's.

And to care for it.

Well, yeah, you've got to think of America like a Boeing airplane. You should appreciate the fact that it can fly and the fact that it does is pretty amazing. I mean, the fact that this tin can is floating in the sky at 40,000ft. That's pretty amazing. That's wild. But if you stop paying attention to it and you don't try and constantly improve it, then the doors might fall off and the landing gears might fail.

And the wheels fall off. And it also inexplicably will lose power when it's traveling from Australia to New Zealand and fall 500ft in a second. The point is. I get what you're saying, but it's like sex too. It's like even when. When it's bad, it still sex. Right? It guys. Are we saying that?

Sure. Yeah.

Go with that. I mean, is that the last thing we're gonna get?

Probably workshop that a little bit after we're.

I'll need to digest that one.

Yeah. Trevor, you are. You are nine minutes over your obligated time. And I apologize for that. We love you.

What a delight. What an absolute.

Hey, Trevor.

Let me get your number. Let's hang out.

We should do that. No, but actually, because you were Liverpool fan and f one fan. Like we. We actually should hang out. I'll. You know, we can just watch the things and then even if we say nothing. We had a good time.

He's not a bad.

We actually shouldn't. I actually will do it. I actually will.

I like that. Thank you.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, sir. Hopefully I see you again soon. Until then, thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me.

God bless.

Really cool.

Thank you, Trevor.

Nice to get to know you.

We. So we say, in Africa, we say, God bless, and may Simba always be by your side. Wow.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Simba.

I feel like he's kidding, but I'm gonna take him at his word. I'm gonna take him at his word.

Thank you.

Thank you, Trevor.

See you in Joburg.

Have a great rest of the day. Thanks, Trevor.

Bye.

Bye, buddy. Well, that. You know. Listen, I tell you what.

I really like that Trevor Noah. I really.

Like looking for. And so is he.

No, I know. I think that he's a special dude. I really like him.

Yes. Like, I didn't know anything about him. I just thought I was a fan.

Just apologize.

What? I probably. I apologize.

I love talking to him so much. We didn't even get to his. His podcast on Spotify. His podcast on Spotify is called what now? Okay.

What now?

What now? What now? And that's on Spotify. And he's on tour right now, like, all over the world. And tickets are on sale through November. So if you're in Singapore, Stockholm, Copenhagen, France, Germany, Rotterdam, Auckland, Melbourne. I mean, the guy is hopping all over the place.

He's like a real international superstar. Yeah, yeah, comedy superstar. The real.

No.

Most of the comedians that we know who are our friends, who we adore, but they're all in. They're all going to fucking Denver and Omaha and shit, right? Like a bunch of fucking ding dongs, right? But then you got Trevor. No one. He's in Singapore. I mean, all our fucking stupid american comedian friends can suck it. Trevor's out in the world places, right?

Sophisticated.

Sophisticated, cool shit.

Yeah.

I like talking to people. Like, I learned so much just from. From a quick hang like that.

Yeah.

I've also, you know, been thinking about that city he performed at recently. Do you guys remember the name of that city?

Oh, here comes, here comes, here comes a.

What are you. Are you trying to wrap it up already? We've barely talked about him.

What do you want to say more? I love him. He's super smart. I want him to come back so I can learn more.

He's excited about his bi. Let him get to it. What were you talking about? Shawn's.

Well, it's a place where a lot of rich people live.

Oh.

Where's that dub Dubai. God, he's had that loaded for a half hour. Smart less.

Smart less smart less is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armjarf. Smart smart less if you like smart list, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondry.com.

Survey it was the biggest scandal in pop music. The stars of Milli Vanilli, the Grammy winning, multi platinum r and b phenomenon, were exposed as frauds. But none of this was their idea. So whose idea was it? Enter german music producer Frank Ferrian. He saw the success of acts like Michael Jackson and Prince, and he wanted in, no matter the cost. So he devised the perfect pop heist, two once in a lifetime talents who were charismatic, full of sex appeal, and phenomenal dancers. The only problem? They couldn't sing. But Frank knew just how to fix them. Wondery's new podcast, blame it on the fame, dives into one of pop music's greatest controversies and takes a never before heard look at the exploitation of two young black artists. Milli Vanilli set the world on fire, but when the truth came out, Rob and Fab were the only ones who got burned. Looking back now, it's hard not to wonder, why did everyone blame them and not the man pulling the strings? Follow blame it on the fame Milli Vanilli on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast, you can binge all episodes of blame it on the fame early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.