You're listening to Smokescreen, my friend, the Serial Killer. Before you dive in, if you want to listen to the whole story uninterrupted, you can. Unlock the entire season ad-free right now with a subscription to The Binge. That's all episodes, all at once. Unlock your listening now by clicking subscribe at the Smokescreen show page on Apple podcast, or visit getthebinge. Com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. The Binge. A quick warning before we start. This show contains descriptions of sexual violence and murder. Listener describes Cression is advised. Robert Carr's home was a bit like Carr himself. Unassuming zooming, a little pockmarked. Seemed average enough. It's in a duplex. The cars were renting upstairs. As I walk up the steps and knock on the door, I have my reporter's notebook in hand. I'm feeling a little nervous. After all, Joanne Carr is my best shot, maybe my only shot, at getting a big interview with her husband, Robert. I knock. Joanne opens the door but just a crack, tentatively, like she doesn't really trust who's on the other side. She's small with dark hair, sweet face. Looks like she hasn't slept in a while. She invites me in.

She's clearly shell-shocked. Joanne says she cannot believe what her husband has done, attacked and killed kids, young women. Of course, she knows about the rapes her husband committed previously. He'd been to prison in Connecticut. But standing there in her kitchen, she tells me something that I've never forgotten. She says, I thought if you gave it to them at home, they'd be fine. She thought that if she provided sex at home, then her husband wouldn't rape others. One thing seems clear to me. Joanne Carr was terrified of her husband. And then, as we're talking, I noticed their 12-year-old daughter, Donna. She's standing not far away. She's a skinny kid with long, bright blonde hair, hunched over a bit. To me, maybe it's just the circumstances, but she seems forlorn. Suddenly, I feel like an intruder. But you know, I'm here to get a story. So we start talking. Pretty soon, Joanne shocks me. She wants my help to mentor Donna, be a Big Brother to her. Wow. It feels like this woman's desperate. I can't say no. There was this little knee wall next to the building where they lived. So one day, Donna and I sit there and we talk.

Another day, I take her to an arcade. It's a local place with pinball machines. In my memory, it was not a good day for Donna. She banged on the pinball machine when she didn't do well, and then She just ran out of the arcade. Over the years, I've wondered what happened to Donna, how her life turned out. But back then, my focus was pretty singular. I was trying to find a way to talk to Donna's father. I asked Joanne to send a message to her husband down in that prison in Florida, putting a word for me. I remind Joanne that I know him, that he picked me up hitchhiking not far from their house. I assure her I can tell his story. Robert Carr has already started to tell his story to the cops. He says he's going to give them all the evidence they need to make a case against him. This is My Friend, the Serial Killer. I'm Steve Fishman. Episode 2, Confessions.

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Cops and prosecutors don't typically think too much about why someone confesses to crimes. They're too busy closing cases moving on to the next one. But Robert Carr was unusual because when Miami police arrested him for one crime, he confessed to many others. Crimes the police and prosecutor, Ed O'Donnell, didn't even know had been committed. Did he ever say why he was confessing?

When he got arrested for the attempted rape or rape, he had an awakening epiphany, if you want. Well, this is what I'm supposed to do now. Let me get rid of all this guilt.

He doesn't say that.

No, no, no, no, no, Okay, Robert, come on. Why did you do this? Was it... Maybe if I was a defense attorney, you'd be looking for some insanity or something, but it wasn't there. There was no real remorse.

Something is motivating him, but what is it? Robert Kahr spent hours and hours over several days telling detectives about the crimes he said he'd did it. In the confession tape, he remains calm throughout. His descriptions are detailed in matter of fact. To me, he almost seems weary.

I drank two six packs of beer, then two pints of pepperman's snops during the day, and then picked up two more six packs of beer.

Both the cops and car seem to have an appetite for the smallest details.

What beer do you usually drink? Mel I like. What couple of steps? Harold Walker.

By the time he'd finished with the detectives, Robert Carr had confessed to multiple crimes. Four murders, two 11-year-old boys who were best friends, a teenage girl, and a young woman. He also confessed to at least eight rapes, all of them hitchhikers. Carr often held his victims captive for a week or more, which is really unusual in a rapist. Eventually, he'd let some go if he believed they wouldn't tell the cops. According to Carr, he ultimately decides to confess because of a sense of connection he felt with one of his victims, Tammy Ruth Hunt, who was 16 years old, half Carr's age.

This is why I confess this whole thing. It was on her account.

Carr may have kidnapped and raped Tammy, but he still imagined they had a relationship. Tammy had a stepsister named Candy Sweet Lovet. Candy thought of Tammy as a big sister, loving and dedicated.

She was also a protector. She was very tough. She didn't take shit from nobody. I'm telling you, she did not take shit from nobody.

Tammy's about two years older than Candy.

She made me feel like I was a princess or something. She's treated everybody equal. She never put down people or criticized people or made fun of people. She was just amazing.

Was she the kid who ran away from home?

Not her, no. But she didn't show up for work one day.

Tammy had a job at a place that made golf cart seats and guitar cases.

It was her day off. She was supposed to go to work to get her paycheck. When it comes to money, she was really funny about that. She got her money, okay? So it was just really odd that she had missed out on it. She counted for every fucking penny she got on her paycheck. Trust me, when it comes to money, she would have picked that check up. So that's when something was going on.

Candy had no idea what happened to her sister.

The following interview is being videotaped at the Dade County Public Safety Department, Miami Dade County, Florida. And sir, would you identify yourself? My name is Ronan F. Carly III.

In 1976, a man in Florida tells a cop he has a profession to make.

Arriving in Miami, I proceeded to do certain things that I considered to be necessary in the crime that I planned to commit. I was looking for a hitchhiker, potential victim.

But instead of becoming his victim, I became his confidante, one of the people closest to him, as he recounted and was tried for his horrific crimes. From Orbit Media and Sony Music Entertainment, listen to My Friend, the Serial Killer. Subscribe on Apple podcast to binge all episodes now or listen weekly wherever you get your podcast.

On the night of March 29th, I came down 163rd Street heading east towards the DJ made the right at this corner.

This is one of the tapes Cahr made with those two Miami Homicide Detectives. It wasn't easy to get. We'd been spending a lot of time trying to track down those detectives. Finally, we got one on the phone. He wouldn't talk, but he did say he had a couple of tapes. And one day, they showed up at my producer's apartment. I wasn't exactly looking forward to watching them. I knew they were going to detailed, and I knew they were going to be creepy. But it's so rare that you get to hear a serial killer talk openly about his crimes. Here in one of the tapes, Carr is drawing a map on the blackboard behind him. He looks a little like a school teacher given a lesson. He's calm, he's relaxed, he's wearing short sleeves, and he shows the detectives exactly where he makes a right turn on red.

I stayed in the right lane, and there was a girl standing just beyond the Greyhound bus station, which is right on the corner there. She was standing in an extremely dark area. And my headlights hit her, and I knew right away this was it.

Carr's driving a '69 Ford Terreno with racing stripes. Tammy was She's trying to go about 20 blocks. And like I was just months before, she's looking for a ride as Robert Carr drives up.Was.

She hit Jackie?Yes, she was. How did you pick this girl as in front of the other girls. She was mature-looking. She was intelligent-looking. She didn't look as big as she was, really. She had a a real girlish look about her, which was deceiving a little bit after I got a better look at her. But you have to make a decision somehow, and I made it by what I thought I saw. This girl got in the car and she was talking. It just continuous. She was all wound up and she was just talking. I never saw anything like it. I was trying to question her about, Just how far are you going now? And she told me she was going to 140th Street. I wasn't sure where that was at that time. I said, Well, where is 140th Street? And she said, You know where the drive-in is? I saw the A. She said, Well, it's just below the drive-in. I said, Okay. So driving down, and she's talking and talking, and I'm nodding my head and saying, . It got down to the drive-in and she said, You can let me out right here on the right-hand side.

This is about me there. She was looking out. It wasn't a stop. She wasn't trying to open the door or anything. She was just looking out for some reason. And then I reached and pulled the knife out, and this knife had an extremely sharp point on it, like a pin. And I just pushed it up into her house, and it stuck her a little bit. I don't mean it went into her, but it was real sharp, and it just jumped her. And she turned around real quick like that, and I said, Don't move, and you won't be hurt. And I said, Just calm down. And she said, Oh, my God, please don't do anything. And I said, Okay, then go down on the floorboard with your knees on the floor, your stomach and your head on the seat. And she looked at me in a real style. And then she said, Oh, my God. And then she reached and grabbed my arm.

The detectives are listening intently. At one point, Carr turns to Detective Charlie's atropelec.

Can I use your arm for a minute?

Can I use your arm for a minute, he asks. Charlie sticks his arm out so Carr can act out his story. He uses both hands to tightly grab the detective's arm just behind the wrist.

She reached in, she went around the night like this, and she grabbed my arm and she's looking at me and she said, Oh, my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, Take your hands off my arm. And she squeezed that much harder and she said, Oh, my God, please don't hurt me. And I said, Take your hands off of my arm. And she said, Please, like that. I said, I'm going to stab you. And I launched like this, and she threw her hands up. And she said, Okay, I'll do anything you say.

As Carr is calmly telling the detectives about this incredibly frightening ride, someone in the police station whistles happily nearby.

The car right on my bumper side, it kept straight on down. I made a ride on 125th Street, and proceeded West on 125th. At that time, I told her to put her knees on the floor, put her stomach and her head on the seat. This time, she was watching me very closely, she did that. She one time, picked her head up, and I pushed it down on the seat. I said, Don't pick your head up again. She didn't. I covered her up with a coat, and I told her not to say a word. Don't ask me any questions. Don't talk to me. I'll answer all your questions later.

Car drives all night and then all the next day. Finally, at 1:00 AM the following night, he arrives at a remote dirt road road in the middle of a swamp.

I just pulled down in there, and there's no place to pull apart, get out of sight. So I just stopped right in the middle of this dirt road, which was used for logging trucks, I guess. I don't know. And hundreds used it for Where is this area? It's called Turkey Island. It's in Mississippi, about 25 to 30 miles east of New Orleans.

Now they're about 800 miles from Miami. Car says, Tammy barely moved the whole trip.

I'd driven all day, the day before, all night, that night, and all that day. And I was exhausted, really exhausted. I was scared to go to sleep, a fear that she would get away.

Car lets Tammy get up, but says if she gives him any trouble, he'll lock her in the trunk. She begs to go home. Car assures her he's not going to hurt her.

I said, Tammy, if I ever you a lie, if I ever do anything that I said I wasn't going to do, then you have reason not to trust me. As long as I keep my word to you, trust me. And she says, That sounds like a good idea. And so I was a little worried about telling her I was going to write it.

Neither of them had eaten much since they left Miami nearly two days before. Robert Carr opened some chicken noodle soup. No doubt that had been on his shopping list, too. He shared it with Tammy.

We were sitting there, and Tammy had a window down, and I had my window down as well. The air was going through there. It was nice. Anyway, Tammy started listening, and she said, What's that noise? And I said, What noise? She said, Is that noise out there in the wood? What are you talking about? And I started looking, and then I heard it. Something rustling around in the bushes. I said, I don't know. And all of a sudden, a little arm of yours about this loss. So just walked right out to the edge of the road, gave us a look, stuck his nose in the leaves and played right there beside the car. He rolled over, he did everything. And Tammy was fascinating. Made it. She said, I've never seen an Amandola before. And she said, I bet you if I open the door, he'd get in.

I hadn't heard this confession tape until I began making this podcast. Listening to it, I remember my own ride with Carr, that soft Southern draw. It's clear in the tapes, Carr enjoys telling a story, even this one. He enjoys being the instructor at the Blackboard, controlling the narrative. I listen now that same quiet voice, and I think how nonchalant he makes evil sound.

Anyway, I leaned over. I was still leaning over here and I looked at him and I said, Tammy, remember when I told She said, If I don't have a mind to you, trust me. She said, Yeah. I said, Well, there's one thing there. It wasn't a lie at the time, but now I changed my mind about it. I think we should talk about it. She said, What's that? She said, You're not going to hurt me. I said, No, I'm not going to hurt you. I said, Remember I told you you weren't going to get ready? She said, Yeah. I said, Well, I decided to change my mind on it. I think we should talk about it. She sat there for a minute. She thought about it, and she said, Well, just once now, you mean? I said, No, we're going to be here a while. She said, We may as well. I'm going to want to fight off. Good in life, that or anything at this time? No. Life was locked up in a glove for part of the time. She said, I really don't have any choice, do I? And I said, In this position, Tammy, I'd say, No, you don't.

This is her second day in captivity. That night, it rains hard. The ground turns to mud. The vehicle gets stuck. The car is in a foul mood. A stuck car means they might need help, which could give Tammy a chance to escape. They try to free the car themselves, pushing it, shoving stuff under the tires for traction. Nothing works. It's April first, Carr's daughter's birthday. That's Donna. I remember her as the forlorn little girl her mother had asked me to spend time with. She's turning 12, and as they work to free the car, he tells Tammy about his daughter. At one point, they take a break, and Tammy finds a muscle shell in the mud. According to Carr, she draws flowers on it, writes Donna in capital letters, and covers it in clear nail polish, then gives it to Carr. Many of these details come from a book Carr eventually wrote with a reporter. There are a lot we can't independently verify, like the one with the muscle shell. We can verify that a little while later, Tammy spots a hunter next to a truck in the distance. He's holding a gun. Carr tells Tammy he's going to wade through the water to ask the hunter to help pull them out.

He tells Tammy if she says anything, one of them is going to get hurt, and she better hope it's the hunter. According to Carr, she replies, Don't worry about it. I'm not going to say a thing. They both get into the hunter's truck, and he drives it around to position it where he can hitch it to the car and yank it out. And then the hunter goes on his way. Tammy's in her second week of captivity. In Carr's mind, they're in this together. Carr believes Tammy is loyal to him. He even starts to imagine she likes him. They go to stores together, and Carr says they go to clubs. He believes they're having fun. One day in a store, she looks at an imitation sapphire, her birthstone. Carr buys it for her. He lets her drive car. He feels like he's really started to care about her. I think about this, and it takes the wind out of me. I think of Tammy with that knife point in her thigh, desperate to survive. Doing whatever it takes. She's only a teenager. Carr is 32. He's let other victims go. Tammy's on her best behavior. It's all she has to hold on to.

At At night, Carr always takes her back to the same secluded Mississippi woods. That's where they sleep, in the Ford Torino.

Had you been to this area previously? Yes, I had.

In his confession, Carr is giving cops detailed reports of rapes and murders he says he committed. But the cops have a problem. No murders have reported. Carr can confess all he wants with as many details as he wants. Without a body, the cops have no case. Prosecutor Ed O'Donnell.

Remember, we got a fine body. We don't have any bodies. We don't have any reports of anybody being found deceased. Nothing to go on. So where are these bodies?

Is it the main section of the road or off the road? No, it's off the road. Well, it's off the road. Can you be able to find it again? Yeah. You're going to be willing to take us and show us where it's at? Yes, I am going to take you and show you where it's at.

What's your reaction when he says, I'll take you to them?

Okay. Really? You'll take us there now. You understand that when we find these bodies, we've got a completed crime. Well, Look, when we find these bodies, you're going to be arrested, charged with first-degree murder. At that time, it did carry death. He said, I understand that. Okay.

According to Carr, Tammy is not the only victim he took across state lines. In fact, not the only victim he took to that spot on Turkey Island. Of the people he claims to have killed, he says two are buried in Mississippi, one in Louisiana, and there's one back in Connecticut. And that's all the cops have to go on, nothing other than Carr's word. So now they're going to go on a trip to see if the guy is telling the truth. And on this trip, Robert Carr will be leading the way. I really enjoyed his company. So he's a guy you could imagine having dinner with? Yeah, sure. Don't want to wait for that next episode? You don't have to. Unlock all episodes of Smokescreen, My Friend, the Serial killer, ad-free right now by subscribing to the Binge podcast channel. Just click subscribe at the top of the Smokescreen show page on Apple podcast, or visit getthebinge. Com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. As a subscriber, you'll get Binge access to news stories on the first of every month. Check out the Binge channel page on Apple Podcasts or getthebinge. Com to learn more.

My friend, The Serial Killer, is a production of Orbit Media in Association with RIME. Creator and host, that's me, Steve Fishman. Our senior producer is Dan Bobkoff. Our associate producer in production Coordinator is Austin Smith. Editorial Consulting by Annie Aviles. Fact Check, Katherine Newhan. Our mixer and Sound Designer is Scott Somerville. From Sony Music Entertainment, our executive producers are Jonathan Hirsch and Katherine St. Louis. Additional reporting by Daniel Bates, Ben Führerherd, Andy Thiebeau, and Francisco Alvarado. Special thanks to Cassie Epps at Otis Library in Norwich, Connecticut.