Coming up, the Chuck Wagon is here. That's right, Charles Barkley next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday. We did night shift, Michael Keaton's first movie. It made him a star. It made him one of the best comedy actors of the eighties, which he doesn't get credit for now because, you know, he became Batman. He's been around for a long, long time. I love this movie. And it was me and Chris Ryan breaking all of it down. You can also watch it on the Ringer movies channel on YouTube. You can follow this podcast on the Bill Simmons channel on YouTube. Me and Sal did what do we do? Overrunners for the AFC and the NFC. We did our favorite future bets, which was super fun. We did guest alliance for week one. And now what's becoming a tradition here on the B's podcast? Charles Barkley coming on. Talk about football. And a little basketball, too, I would say. All right, fine. A lot of basketball. That's next. First, our friends from all right, football season is here, which means we have to have Charles Parker.

Now.

Worst football gambler, top 20 worst football gambler. Where do you rank?

It depends on how good the team plays. Hell, Eric Gambler knows your team gotta play good or bad. Hey, man, right now, I'm not gonna lie. Like, two weeks ago, it was the game over in Ireland. That was my first bet of the year.

Yeah.

And then last week, it's full blown. And now starting tomorrow with Thursday Night Football, which I'm not gonna touch that game because I have zero idea what's going to happen.

Well, that's never stopped you before.

Yeah, but I like to have some information going on. So starting last weekend, I was good to go.

I'm staying away from that Brazil game. Can you imagine going to Brazil and just, they're like, you can't leave your hotel room for three days and then you still have to play a football game. Too many variables. I don't like it.

Yeah, but, you know, the Eagles got a lot at stake. You know, last year was a disaster. And they got some jobs riding on the line, man, because if they have another bad year, the heads are gonna roll. I mean, they fired Doug Peterson after he won a Super Bowl. I mean, can you imagine if they go from losing the Super bowl to tank in last year, getting stumped in the playoffs, didn't have another bad year. So I'm really looking forward to the season because I think. I think they're going to be great. I don't think they're going to be good. I think they're going to be great.

Really? So you're doubling down on the Eagles? I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot of Eagles love in this offseason.

Well, you know, I'm an Eagles fan. I know, and I think this is my personal opinion. I'm not a football expert, but I think the coach really screwed up last year personally. What I think because when he lost the offensive and defensive coordinator, he just hired his buddies.

Right.

And I was like, I don't know if that's a good idea. Even if you gonna hire them, you still look at other people. Because I think. I think that's what it mistake. Because, you know, one thing they don't do in the NFL, they don't fire coordinators during the regular season. They fired both of theirs in the middle of the season, which never happened. That never happens.

Yeah.

There almost has to be like an HR violation for that.

So I think, I think he made a mistake. I'm a fan of his, but I think that when he just instead of like those, both of those guys got head coaching jobs, well, let you know they were terrific coaches. But I don't think you just hired a next man up. Even if you do that, you bring in other candidates because you just never know.

Do you think when the Eagles won the Super bowl, that changed the psyche of Philly fans at all? Are they just as crazy as they always were?

No. No. Philadelphia is a great sports town. It's kind of like I tell people I spent my first eight years on the east coast, in Philly. And no disrespect to the Lakers fans and the Bears fans are great, but New York, Philly and Boston, it's a different animal. I mean, they love their sports. Like, like I say, I played in Philly, I played in Houston, I played in Arizona. But, you know, I know all the guys on different teams, and I'm a big sports fan. Yeah, there's some about the east coast. Like I say, I think New York and Boston and Philly, man, as far as fans, they are, they love you for you. They love you. If you give 110%, you're set for life if you win. But I think there's a different type of intensity on the east coast fans. That's just my opinion.

I think it's weather related, at least like 70%. Cause you know, the weather's going to suck for like five, six months. You played in Phoenix where it's either super nice or it's 200 degrees and you have to get the f out of there. But LA is the same way. The weather's nice here all the time. It's hard to get too bad about anything.

What's really crazy, Bill, what you said. I've actually said that before. Yeah, I do. I think some of the animosity or anger toward teens and other fans. Cause they're stuck in the house for six, seven months a year.

Yeah.

And they have to do. I tell people when I got trade to Phoenix, it was really surreal because it was like, in October, November and December in Philly, you're like, shit, it's cold. I'm staying in the house.

Right?

Like, you don't want, like, you go to practice and you go home, but you're like, no, I don't want to go outside. Because once it's cold, it's always cold. You don't never have, like, a day where it's like 75 degrees in the middle of the winter.

Right?

Like when I got trade to Phoenix, you're like, oh, no, no, no. It's 72 degrees. I've got to go do something. Like, I don't. On an off day, you're like, no, no, I got to do something. So I 100% agree with you on the weather aspect.

Well, because, like, Minnesota's cold, Buffalo is cold, Detroit's cold, places get cold. I think the difference with the New York.

But you just named two of the best fan bases in sports, right? Like the Vikings fans and the. They're two of the best fan bases in sports, right? I mean, and players will tell you that's not like playing in Minnesota or Buffalo. They'll, those are two of the best fan bases. And it's got. I do. I agree with you.

The weather is crazy, but more spread out in those places in the cities, you're on top of each other and you're just, like, talking to people and just getting mad about everything. It's also in the DNA, I always felt like, with Boston and Philly specifically, and that's why the Paul George move into Philly. And I've said this on a pod, and people are like, oh, you're a Celtics fan. You're just saying that. Like, I really believe it. Paul George has played in Indiana, he's played in Oklahoma City, and he's played for the Clippers, where literally in LA, nobody cares about the Clippers. And now he's moving into Philly. And I don't think people, I think people realize how intense it is, especially compared to what he came from, you know?

Yeah, but I think he has a huge advantage.

Okay?

He's only. He's only got to be the third best player on the team. That's a really huge advantage for Paul because Joel is the guy, Maxi is the second guy. Paul only has to be the third best player. Let me tell you something. I said this at the beginning of last season. If Porzingis plays well, nobody gonna beat the Celtics. I said that the entire season. I says, hey, and Shaq was giving me a hard time. Like he's never won anywhere. I says, I said, well, first of all, he had to be the number one guy or the number two guy in those other places. That's a whole different attitude. He only has to be the third best player in Boston. And you see, he thrived in that position. There's nobody got a third. I mean, you could argue between him and Drew, who's the third best player. But as you saw in the finals, if he plays like that, like he played all season, stays healthy's gonna be tough to beat again this year.

I know. The problem is, I'm not sure we're getting him until all star break. Cause you know how it goes with NBA injuries. They're like, yeah, it should be December. I just add six weeks to whatever. When it's a long injury, I just add time to it. I never trust the teams.

Yeah. But I think the one thing the NBA did screwing up was pissing off Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. I truly believe.

Oh, we're doing this now? I had that. Let's go.

Let's do it. I think Jalen getting left off the Olympic team and Jason not playing, first of all, they were already horrific players already.

Yeah.

And I think both of them gonna have the red ass.

That's good for me, though, right? I'm actually glad they got the chips on the shoulder after a title that never happened.

No question. I think I tell people, I says, yo, man, I really think both of those guys, number one, they're the defending champs. That's gonna take their confidence to another level. But the NBA, I found a way to piss both of them off this summer. How about that? I know only the NBA can do that. Well, like, let's piss off two of the top ten players in the NBA after they are coming off a championship. Now, I don't seriously, I don't think maybe Isaiah Thomas was treated unfairly on a dream team, but I cannot think of any other scenario. Well, the NBA pissed off two players more than they did this summer with Jason and Jalen. I really believe that. Sincerely.

Well, and you might add three, because Giannis got left off Christmas. They were like, yeah, you're not even a Christmas superstar anymore. And I think he's putting the chips on his shoulder, too. But back to the Tatum thing, and I haven't. I've been saving this for you, this take. So Tatum. People in my life have given me a ton of shit about Tatum and Brown, and Brown not making the team and Tatum not playing. And I did. I talked to a bunch of people, tried to figure out what happened. You know, Tatum, they win. They go through the playoffs. The finals ends mid June. They're celebrating for a week. He has a kid. He misses the first two practices. There's only four Team USA practices, right? A bunch of the guys that were there had been knocked out of the playoffs in mid April, late April, beginning of May. So they come in, they're all fired up, ad and bam. Get to play together. And just Tatum, he can't make a couple shots. And then all of a sudden it just kind of goes sideways a little bit for him. I think those. Those Olympics has a huge advantage to the guys who haven't been doing anything since April.

Look at the four best guys in that team. Booker, Lebron, Ad Curry. Those guys were out of the fucking playoffs in April. All they had to do is get ready for six games. That's my Jason Tatum defense, Charles Barkley.

There's no reason Jason Tatum should have been playing. Or Halliburton. They gave up their summer to represent their country. There's not going to be a tremendous drop off. You're like, you know what? Maybe I should put Jason Tatum in the game. I'm like, you're not putting a second string guy in there, right? Or Halliburton. You're not. Seriously, you're not dropping off. I thought they should have played more, first of all, like, how do you.

Play twelve guys in a basketball game, though? You know how stupid that is? Like, it's only 40 minutes.

They only played two real games. Yeah, Serbia and France. There was four other games they could have played before then. Jason didn't play in two games. I'm like, come on. And I'm not even sure how burden. I'm not. I don't forget how many he played in that. When they were playing Sudan the second time, the first time they were screwing around in, barely won. But when they beat suit Sudan by 25, 30 points, come on, you can't get this kid five minutes. First of all, it's the Olympics. You represent your country, you want to be part. You want to be part of the team, you want to be part of the Olympics. So like I say, I was disappointed, man. Cause Jason's a terrific player and a great team. And same thing with Halliburton.

Well, the thing is, I think the mistake was trying to pick the twelve bet because the women's basketball team went through this, too. Can only really play ten. So, like, when you were on the dream team, Leitner was in one of the spots, you knew he wasn't going to play. Bird was wearing a back brace. You knew he wasn't going to play that much if it actually mattered. And then Stockton got hurt during the playoffs. But you really only needed nine.

Yeah, but, but when we were blowing people out, those guys got in the game. Right? That's my point. Like Chuck always said, hey, I'm going to have this team going to start in certain games. And I was fortunate to be one of those guys. But when we're on, like, Bird, who had a bad back, when we're up 60, he can go out there and say, hey, I played in the Olympic. That's really cool. That's really special. Same thing with Christian Laetner. Now, can you pay twelve guys every game? Probably not. But when you up 40 points, you can't, like, you can't get a Halliburton and JT five to seven minutes. First of all, I'm not even still LeBron and KD, like, says, yeah, I don't want to be out there. We are 50. That ain't no fun, right? Play those other guys. So that was my only problem with the whole scenario.

By the way, you in 1992 fit my Olympics theory. Your ass got sent home. Did you? I don't even know if you made the playoffs that year. You were really ready for the Olympics as opposed to like, MJ and Pippen had played all through the playoffs and then you were awesome in the Olympics. This is my theory. It's actually an advantage when you go to the Olympics. If you've been knocked out, the Olympics.

Are the easiest thing to play.

Well, for you in 1992, no, but.

Any year the Olympics are the easiest thing to play. Same thing for me in 96. Man, the better players you play with, the easier the game is. Yeah, because like, when you a great player, you have to do most of the heavy lifting on your own team. The reason the Olympics, I say, is the easiest. I'm pastor ball to Patrick Jung or David Robinson. Like, I don't have to get every rebound, I'm passing the ball to a guy I know gonna make the shot.

You're running the floor.

Yeah, I just have to, I just like, I got no responsibility that I have to do. I know when I played for the six and the sun, I gotta get 24, ten rebounds every single night.

Yeah.

You know, when you, when you a star, you have to get your numbers every single night. We can't have no excuses, no B's. But on the Olympic team, I'm like, I just got to get twelve points, six or seven rebounds. If I move without the ball, somebody going to find me because I know they trust me. So the Olympics to me are always the easiest to play. I tell people that I still, man, Olympics are like going to summer camp.

Well, it turned into fool's gold for the Lakers fans and the warriors fans. Cause their guys look good in the, in the Olympics and now they're like seed. We could be contenders. And it's like, it's probably a little bit different. 82 game, season four player.

You were watching our show. I went off on the news media last year, made a lot of those clowns on ESPN. I'm like, every day for like three months, are the Lakers and the warriors contenders? I'm like, yo, man, I told y'all six months ago, the Lakers think, the warriors think. Why do y'all talk? I did, I did a whole political. I'm like, why are you guys on the other network and some of the guys are friends of mine. Why do y'all keep telling us the Lakers and the warriors are good? The Lakers stink. The warriors stink. Think about that. And I then when they both got beat in a imaginary playoff. Bullshit, Bill. That we made up to play and stuff.

Yeah.

And then the Lakers win one game against Denver. I was like, Steve, now y'all do y'all thing on tv every day talking about the Lake. I told you the Lakers stink and the warriors stink. And right now they're not relevant. Either one of those teams going into the season.

Yeah, some of that comes from the producers, which you've, you've been pretty fortunate with in your whole Turner experience.

You can't just do that for the hell of it.

No, but I did those shows. They would tell I was doing tv during the years when, you know, the last kind of years of Kobe, when the Lakers were starting to go down and we were still leading with the Lakers, they were just talk, Kobe talk, the Lakers talk the Knicks. Like they just try to hit the three biggest teams. And like, I thought OKC last year was probably the least discussed team of all the great teams. And then people were surprised when they look good in the playoffs, the casual fins.

Well, I'll tell you what, and let me tell you something as good as some, okay? So my sisters had a great summer.

Yeah, we'll see.

Well, we will see. That's true. But let me tell you something, okay. She had a great summer.

They did.

Because Caruso and Hardenstein, let me tell you something, man, they had the best summer.

Well, and they came, they came damn close to being Dallas. I was, they did. I was in that corner. I felt, and I said this and the Dallas fans are getting mad at me, but I felt like that series came down to like two rebounds and three shots and they were even that game six when they found Washington in the corner. And it just, I thought, I thought OKC was close and they were two guys short and they got the two guys.

They got the two guys and they got the two role players who are probably like, that's what you want when you have stars. You want guys who are going to do the dirty work, right? And they went out and got the best, probably two dirty work guys in the NBA.

Well, dirty work guys are back because Drew and Derek White, I feel like, I feel like now everybody knows they need the dirty work guy.

Well, yeah, because you got to understand something. Very few players want to play on a team where they're not going to get in the shots.

Yeah.

That's the key. And Derek White going to get shots because they have to stop Tatum and Brown. So that's what I tell people. I said, man, the dirty work guys are important because every team builds their team around stopping the stars.

Yeah.

And you have to make stars pass the ball. And Derrick White is always wide open and he like, and what you have to do in that situation, just shake his hand when it's over, say, hey, you know what? We're not going to let Brown and Tatum beat us. Derek White beat us. Let's just shake his hand and same thing. And I'm a big true holiday fan. If those guys beat us because Tatum and Brown, they're going to get x amount of points no matter what.

Yeah.

You just can't let them go crazy. You have to pick your poison, as we say. Hey, let's like Derek white make these shots. Derrick White made those shots. And the Celtics attempt same thing for zingas. Took such a load off those guys, too, because he was their best defender. And man, I tell you, there's no better three guy in the league than Porzingis when he's healthy.

I was just talking about him with somebody about, you know, he comes back for game five of the finals, but he's hurt and they're like, you can't make it worse. But he had a real impact on game five. I thought he was one of the reasons they were able to extend the lead and put Dallas away. But I. If he couldn't have played in that game, I don't. There's an alternate universe of that series that I think Boston was a better team, but that could have been a scary thing. If all of a sudden you're going back to Dallas for game six with a three nothing lead and no Porzingis, they shoot their wild with Porzingis, and then he's out for the rest of the finals. Cause he played the one game, I don't know, it was a little bit more heroic than maybe he got credit for trying to play. Cause now he's out for seven months.

Yeah, but I think he was already hurt, to be honest with you. And he was gonna have to have surgery no matter what. But that goes back to, we're talking about Jason Tatum and in the Olympics. Yo, man, just let me go out there and try. Let me play. So I feel like I'm part of the championship. There's no doubt in my mind. But Zinga's like, I really only played a game and a half. Let me go out here. Even if.

Let me show these guys.

Yeah, let me let these guys know that this means a lot to me. So I was proud of him because I think he's a good kid. I think he's a heck of a player. And like I said, I said before this season, I said, especially once they got drew holiday, I said, everybody is playing for second place. Yeah, this thing is over. Everybody is playing for second place. Plain and simple.

Let's take a break. And I have another Celtics question for you football fans.

Oh, yeah.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook dot fando.com. call 1800 GaMBleR or visit rg dash help.com. so when you look back at last season as we, you know, the upcoming season isn't that far away. When you look back at what happened last season, how it played out, the Celtics won pretty easily. They didn't really have a ton of challenges in the four rounds. There was a lot of injuries that went in their favor. The west was all over the place. How are you going to remember that season? Cause I think even after the playoffs ended, all of us were kind of like, eh, that wasn't that great of a playoffs. I can't tell if it was an anomaly or, or what.

They had the best record in the NBA. They really were, you know, injured a part of the game, but they had the best record in the NBA. They had the best team in my opinion.

I agree.

You know, Jason and Jalen both are top ten players, right? True. Holiday is probably the most underrated player in the NBA. Derek White is a terrific role player. Przinga's is man. You know, they call his nickname as a unicorn. Like when he's healthy, his defensive, like the one game he was healthy, he had like three or four blocks.

Game one.

Yeah, they turned game one and two. Let's see how the series goes to like, damn, the Ceptics up 30, right? I mean, they went from zero to 60 so quick, like, he blocked three shots in the first half. That probably took the whole momentum away from it even being a competitive game.

So you got the crowd in it too.

Yeah. You got to give those guys their flowers. I think I saw a stat only like three or four teams won, I think 90 some games in the history of the NBA.

Yeah, it was 80 plus. Right? Like, I think their final record was like 80 and 21.

Yeah, it's only been done three or four times.

Yeah.

And, you know, you factor in, I think that fazing was missed some games during the regular season. I think Brown. I think Brown. He hurt his face and he missed a bunch of games. So you factor all that in, you're like, man, it's a really, really good team. But let me tell you something. Let me ask you this question, though. Anybody give you bullshit about this? Bill, you say yourself, let's look at this Celtics team. Brown, Tatum or Zingas. Drew holiday. You can throw Derrick White at Derek White in there.

Yeah. It's like five of the top 50 guys.

Easily.

Yeah.

Easily.

By any. On any list.

On any list. And first of all, you can actually stop at Brown and Tatum. Who else have two of the top ten players in the NBA?

I mean, some people would say the Lakers.

No. Well, listen, that's. Go back to our original conversation. That's tv talk, right? Because no other top ten, two players in the top ten gonna be in the play in bullshit. Okay.

Or miss the playoffs.

And let me tell you something. The playing has been great for the NBA, but it's not even a real thing. So don't tell me they got two of the top ten players being an imaginary playoffs. I mean, they wouldn't have made the playoffs we had. We didn't add teams to the playoffs. So I don't really want to hear that, of that. Those actions. The scoreboard speaks for itself.

Yeah. It's almost like there's two different versions of what makes a list like that, the best players. Cause I do think LeBron, if it's like, you know, a playing game, if it's the Olympics, if it's the in season tournament, if he can ramp it up for a week, he is one of the ten best players. But I always feel like we discount durability and reliability during the course of regular season. Like, LeBron can't really play even 60 games a year anymore. Like, he's got to pick his spots and he's old.

Yes.

You know, and that. The Tatum Brown thing, I always thought. I always thought that was the thing they never got credit for. It's like day in, day out, week in, week out. Those guys are playing big minutes, big responsibilities, guarding the best guys in the other team. Then they're going into the playoffs, playing three, four rounds, 100 game seasons, and they're playing 90% of them, which, you know, not even Giannis hasn't been able to do that consistently the last couple of years.

Yeah. And like I say, that's why I think, man, get those guys their flowers, what they accomplished, and I don't want to hear about who was hurt on the other team.

Let's be real, because we have that every year.

Yeah, but let me tell you something, though. There's not one injury that you could mention and you say, oh, that team would have beat the Celtics. Okay, if you're going to be fair, anybody who's having this conversation, you can't say to yourself, well, this team had to have had this guy, man. They weren't going to beat the Celtics. They were not going to beat the Celtics.

This year is going to be harder because I think OKC loaded up, Dallas, got a taste of it. The west is better. The west is going to be deep night after night after night. Milwaukee is going to be motivated. Philly's back, the Knicks are better. And it reminds me a little that 93 season you were in, the first year you were in Phoenix when just, it seemed like everybody was good and it was like, holy shit. I could see like ten teams winning the title. I do feel like the talent level is at that level again.

Yeah, but listen, the Knicks are gonna miss Hardenstein, no question.

And they gotta figure out the Randall piece, too. Like, who are their best five at the end of?

They gotta figure, that's a really big piece. That's a great point on your, your point. But the Joel Embiid Paul George scenario, that's gonna be fascinating to watch, because I still think it's between them and the Celtics. Because let's get one thing straight. Y'all can talk, these people can talk all they want to about the Knicks. I says, the Knicks cannot beat the Pacers. And they didn't. I says, because when I'm watching these games, I'm looking for matchups. I says, yo, man, the Knicks are tough. I love Bronson, but they can't beat the Pacers. And they didn't have. And so I think you have to really be like, man, can anybody catch the Celtics? And there's question marks on the Sixers. I love what they've done. I root for the Sixers. But let's be realistic. We're chasing the Celtics now. You're pulling on the western conference. OKC, I think, got better. The math, I think, are gonna regress design situation in New Orleans and he get himself in shape.

It's year five of that conversation.

I know we gotta sit back and wait.

Phoenix, trying to think.

My sons, they got no identity and no leadership.

But they did get better, right? I mean, the Tyce Jones thing, just getting him basically for free was, was nuts.

Yes. They needed a point guard.

And the coach, I think is going to be good for them, too.

Yeah, but you still got to have leadership on your team, Bill. You got to have a style of play. You got to have leadership. The Sons have nothing proven that he can do that yet.

Well, so what do we make of Devin Booker at this point in his career, then? Cause I think we all feel like he's one of the best tens of terrific player. He was perfect on Team USA. He's been. He's been the best player in a finals team. Right. That was three years ago.

Yes, but the whole dynamic of the team changed when Katie and Bill came there.

Yeah.

You know, so. So now they gotta have leadership. He's got to take the leadership role because I think he's reluctant because people assume that KD's the best player. I said, but your best player don't have to. Kevin has said he doesn't want to be a leader. He just want to play basketball. And I challenged Booker last year and they got mad. I said, sons don't have any leadership. They don't have a style of play. And they got mad, which I don't care, but I said, it's got to be Booker. He's going to take a serious leadership role because people going to.

Maybe it'll happen.

People going to. People going to listen to him because he's a great player, but he's got to become more of a leader. Got to be more of a vocal leader. And then we gonna see what happened with the Suns.

But we didn't mention Minnesota, and we didn't mention a big joker, by the way, who almost beat Team USA by himself with a bunch of guys nobody had ever heard of.

He did, but they got to get some. They got to get some bench. I liked him going out, getting Westbrooks, but that team wore down because they didn't do anything to replace their bench players.

Yeah.

They let everybody go after they won the championship. Minnesota, I think, will regress.

Oh, you're giving them the will regress.

They will regress. They got lucky last year. Everything worked out for him. They. Cause they let the joker down last year because he had to play the whole game against those two big seven footers.

Yeah.

And he just got worn down.

Yeah.

I don't think they're gonna let that happen. Like I said, I love the fact they went out and got Westbrook, but they still need another big body. It's one team I mentioned. Did you still.

We said, we have Minnesota, Denver, I guess the Clippers. You could.

No Clippers.

I can't count on them. Ever. Golden State. We're saying no Lakers, no, thanks. Yeah, we probably miss it, but that's the point. There's so many teams in the.

Yeah, I'm trying to think. That one team I got, I said, I'm curious to how they're gonna do.

It's interesting. You're not. You're not interested in Milwaukee at all, huh? You just feel like that runs over.

I'm not.

We think they're too old.

Other than Giannis, I think that Yanis has to get better as a basketball player.

He's training with Drew Hanlon this year.

Apparently, but that just going downhill one on five is not going to work.

Yeah.

And it doesn't work. And he's a terrific player and terrific kid, but he's got to get better as a basketball player. So, no, I'm not. I'm not a Milwaukee guy. If I pick, don't tell Doc. Yeah. I'm trying to think. I miss somebody in the west. I can't think of who that is.

I'm going to look it up as you're talking, but answer me this question, because I was thinking about this. I was trying to get to the point, mentally, where I love basketball the most. As you know, it's my favorite sport. But I found myself looking forward to the football season more than I look forward to basketball seasons. There's a little gambling fantasy Sunday.

That means you got some issues, because let me tell you something. There's nothing better than pro football and college football. As much as I love listen, I'm in heaven right now. Football. See, the start of football season, college and pros, is the most exciting thing because I admire those guys, because if you go out there and play football, you're all in. You can't cheat football. You can cheat in a lot of sports, but if you go out there on the football field or boxing, I think it's the same way.

Yeah.

You have to be a grown ass man, and there's no screwing around. I am so pumped for this football season to start.

So you've always been more loved football than basketball, even though you're a basketball player?

When I realized what it took to play football, because I played football one day.

When was that? What grade?

Back in high school.

Oh.

And I realized these guys are fucking nuts. And I was like, I remember the last thing that coach said to me, bill, he said, I'll see you tomorrow. I was like, yo, I'm not doing this shit tomorrow.

Yeah, you will see me.

And I says, coach, I just ran into a guy full speed for 2 hours.

Yeah.

Cause I was on the defensive line, and I'm like, I'm not doing this. And then when I got to know the guys and to, like, see how much effort, pain, mental toughness it takes to play football, I was like, man, I love this sport and boxing the same way to me. I love boxing.

Yeah.

And it's something about the sports that, like, you, you can't, you can't play football if you're not 100% invested in it. And I love it, man. I do. I love it. It's the best time of the year for me right now.

Well, I was always in the minority of, I love basketball the most because I grew up with it. I went to a bunch of great games, but this year was a little different. By the way, the team we left out was Memphis.

That's it.

Memphis was the, I knew we were leaving, but that's how good the west is that both Memphis, watch out for Memphis.

They got a chance.

They got a chance like, they're 20 to one to win the conference on Fanduel. They have worse odds than the Lakers. That's just, that's ridiculous.

That's just ridiculous.

Worse odds than the suns. And they got that big seven foot five kid who's actually, I think, going to play for them and be good.

If I was to take a wild card on any team in the west, it would be Memphis.

I agree.

Cause I think that, I think their coach is terrific. I think jaws a terrific player if he can keep his head on straight. They really, they really miss Stephen Adams last year. Hopefully he'll come back healthy.

Yep.

Their coach. I'm a big fan of their coach Taylor. And let me tell you something, that if I had to pick a sleeper, it would be the grizz.

Now it's time for a special part of today's episode sponsored by NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube tv. NFL Sunday ticket. You know, I love it. Awesome features to help you stay on top of all the action, my friend, Multiview allows you to watch up to four games at once. You could layer on stats and fantasy views to track your favorite teams and players. But when you bundle NFL Sunday ticket and YouTube tv, guess what happens? You get access to every game every Sunday. That's the most live NFL games all in one place. Well, I don't know if you know this, but YouTube tv has crowned me their CMO. That's right. Chief Multiview officer to help pick the top four games of the week that you should watch with multi view. So I went with the early games. I left out my beloved Patriots. Here are the four Cardinals, Bills. It's going to be a lot of offense cards as a possible upset pick. I can't wait to watch that game and see how many points are scored and just what the Bills look like. Is their defense even going to be that good? We'll see.

Jags offense, big jags comeback season possibly a little Florida rivalry here. Texans, Colts. Last time we saw them was when they were fighting each other, getting the playoffs. Now they're back to AFC south rivals. And then last but not least, Bears, Titans. You might be surprised to see the Titans in here, but I want to see Caleb Williams. I want him on one of the tv. So cards, Bills, Jags, the offense. Texans, Colts, Bears, Titans and now at the multi view builder. This year you can even customize yourself which four NFL games you want to watch. Just log in to select, build a multi view, repeat, build a multi view. Pick out the four games you want to watch. Thanks again to our friends at NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube tv. Don't miss a moment of the action this NFL season. Watch every game every Sunday. When you bundle NFL Sunday ticket on YouTube TV. Sign up today@YouTube.com b's local and national games on YouTube tv NFL Sunday ticket for out of market games excludes digital only games. Device and content restrictions apply. The reason I brought up this football basketball thing, I was thinking about this stupid conversation they were having now, this, this infrastructure we've created in the NBA where if somebody doesn't win the title, they might go and there's trade rumors and, oh, this contract's up in two years.

And I was thinking about some of the guys in football that we were, and quarterbacks don't really switch teams ever, which I think is a real strength for football. Like you. If you're a Chiefs fan, Mahomes is going to be in your life for 20 years the same way Curry is going to be in your life if you're a Warriors fan. Yeah, but there's guys like, like, think about in the NBA, if somebody was in the situation Dak Prescott's been in for the last two years where it's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if you're going to get an extension or not. This would be covered every day. Like step, he'd probably demand a trade. Same thing for, like, Josh Allen on Buffalo losing all his receivers. It's like, I don't know if I can stay here.

No, hold on. I'm fascinated by that conversation.

Yeah.

Because I understand the Cowboys perspective.

They have one jack shit with him.

And so they made him the highest paid quarterback like three, four years ago, correct.

Yes.

So now they got to make him a high quarterback again.

He said one playoff win, I think.

And I'm like, well, everybody's acting like they're being disrespectful to that. They made him the highest paid football player in the world, like, four years ago when they have cause. Let me tell you something. That game last year was concerning to me because the green bag in, if you are a serious football team, you can't get blowed out like that at home.

48 to 32 at home.

You, you can. And you down 28 zip in the second quarter because you ain't made to play. You ain't been a relevant team. You get a home game, a home game. I think you got to win that game. I've said this before. You don't have to win the game, but you can't get blown out like that. That was, that was a scarlet letter, as they say. I'm like. Cause I'm sitting there watching that game, and I'm gonna tell you the truth. I obviously bet on Dallas. I'm like, there's no way Dallas is gonna lose this first home game.

Yeah.

Against really a rookie quarterback basically in love coming on the road. Cowboys. You know, they've been talking. They talk a lot, too. They talk a lot when they get talked about, but, but they talk a lot, too. Okay. To have an upstart come to your house and be down 28 zip, you're like, yeah, this is, this is bad. This is bad. Like I say, they don't have to win the game, but you, you can't get beat like that. That's, that's player and coaching blame right there.

But they brought the coach back and they brought the quarterback back.

Yeah. Because they can't, because this, this is a last, this is a last year scenario.

Right.

I think. I think if I could argue last.

Year should have been a last year scenario.

Yeah. But you know, the way that that stupid cap works in the NFL, if you cut a play, I think even if they let that go at this, he's still going to count, like $50 million against the cow going.

The problem, though. Yeah. The problem is because they didn't give him a new contract. All that money hits them this year, which made it harder for them to make the team bad.

So you, your theory is they should make him the highest paid again?

No, my theory is they've won nothing with Dak, and they should probably let him go. I'm more interested in the NBA prism of it because we've seen this in the NBA with, like, Zach Levine, Bradley Beal, some of the guys that got max extensions this year where people are like, well, I guess we got to do it. And you're doing it and you don't know if this is a path to even make, like, round two of the playoffs. Right? But in the NBA, it's like if you don't do it, all sudden I had dissension, not sure if the guy is happy. And we're just, we have so much movement in the league now and we're so used to it and it's such a part of the dialog that I actually think it's really bad.

Well, first of all, I think it's. I think it's always been bad.

This is the worst it's ever been. Come on.

100% because I've said this. I'm not just saying because I'm on your podcast. I don't understand why bad teams have to pay bad players. I really don't. Because, like, well, wait a minute. If I give a guy $50 million a year and he's just a good player, I'm stuck with him and we're stuck losing in the first round of the playoffs. I've always said that. I was like, wait a minute, I'm gonna pay brown and pay the max dollars. I'm not playing anybody for the Hawks.

Well, like, lamello Ball is a good example, right? They gave him that extension right away. I don't even think they won 30 games.

I really don't understand why we have to play. Like I said, first of all, everybody NBA can play. Let me get that out the way. Yeah, but why am I paying a guy who's just a good player $50 million a year for five years? I can't trade him. We're not going to get better. I've never understood that.

Well, now the media deal, the numbers are even going to go up. Oh, my God.

Listen, let me tell you something. When this new tv deal kicks in, where's your cut?

All the ex players from the eighties and nineties should be getting a big.

I tell you what's going to be crazy. We're going to number one. I'm not a hater. Bless all the guys, make all the money, of course, but we're going to have guys making 80 9100 million dollars. It's going to be crazy. I mean, it's going to be flat.

Out and coaches making, like, five, the disparity of, like, the best players versus what the coaches make is crazy.

The worst aspect of it to me. And, you know, it's gonna happen because already happening now with guys making 30, 40 million, when we have guys making $90 million in their load managing, you think the regular fan gonna be having that shit? Hell, no.

It's already ha. It's already happening.

I know, but like I say, that's. That really concerns me going forward. Number one, I hate load management. Hey, listen, I'm pretty sure doctors and nurses and firemen and policemen, they don't want to work seven days a week sometime to play basketball. Three or four days a week is not allowed to ask anybody. And I don't want to hear about the numbers. These guys who paid all the dues before me played in crappy shoes, flew commercial, didn't have the best medical shit. We got guys sleeping in chambers now, Bill. Hey, I know about 15 NBA players who got bought, like, a hyperbaric chamber, right?

And they have chefs. They got chefs. They have all kinds of shit.

And then these guys are like, yeah, I can't play basketball three or four days a week. I'm like, are you kidding me? It's got to get worse when guys start making more money, when the new tv deal kicks in.

Well, I have, like, you know, the. Somehow I still have the Clippers tickets. And they traded Paul George, who was the one guy who actually, like, was playing. I know it's a team built around Kawhi and James Harden, and it's like, hey, should I go to the clipper game Wednesday night? Now? I gotta check, are those guys gonna play? Oh, they're both playing tonight. Yeah, I would fucking hope so.

Yeah. That drives me crazy, man. Cause it's disrespectful to the game, first and foremost, and it's really disrespectful to the fans. I mean, come on, man. If you go, listen, God bless all these guys are making 40, $50 million. But come on, you got to play basketball. And I don't listen, once the season start, something always hurts.

Yeah.

So set the fuck up, rub some. I take Shaq, rub some icy hot on it and go play. Everything hurts. I mean, I'm a. I tell people, man, I always felt bad. I try not to ever miss a game. I took so many shots of Tora doll in my ass. Uh, that. What's that? That horse. That horse shit. Uh, DMSO. That's made for horses.

You took that.

Oh, yeah, man, I wanted to play. I have an obligation to the teammates and to the fans. Oh, yeah, they're, it makes your breath smell like shit, dude. But let me tell you something. There was times I could barely walk. When I got that. When I got that DMSO, I was like, can I run a marathon? Like, it was unbelievable. But between that and Toradolph, I'm trying to think. I think that was the only stuff I took the most. But I didn't care. I'm not worried about the future, number one. My teammates mean a lot to me. I always wanted, I'm not going to sit over there and cheer them on if, like, just cause I'm a little sore. That's not going to happen.

Yeah. So you come into the league and you're playing with Doc, the original doc. Doctor J, who had been playing basketball since the early seventies, wearing shady sneakers, jumping. He was having commercial.

Hey, Bill, my first, my first two years in NBA, I flew commercial, right?

You're set. You have to hang out with the reporters. You would sit next to the beat guys. But Doctor J played. He played 16 years.

The worst thing about it was some old lady. I tell you what. Like I'd get to a certain city and my shoulder was fucking killing me and Al. Domenico said, what's wrong with your shoulder, rookie? Hurt your game? You hurt your arm in a game ladder? I said, yo, man, I had this old lady sleeping on me back in, coach, and you don't want to be an asshole and wake this old lady up. Yeah, but then you get to the, you go to the hotel, sleep all afternoon, then go to the game and you can't lift your arm. And it's like, man, I had this old lady leaning on me the whole time. And coach, I mean, I got so many good stories about that, man. It's hilarious.

Well, that's the thing. Like, doctor J played, what, 15 years, 16 years. Havelczyk played 16 years.

But definitely you can't even count doctor J. Remember he played in the ABA first, right?

And that was probably, think about it.

What about all the years he played in college, right? That's what drives me crazy about these guys today. I'm like, y'all don't even go to y'all now. You go to college for six months, you come to less than that.

It's like five.

Yes. And I'm like, yo, man, you guys are so lucky and blessed. You make all this money, just play basketball. Listen, you're never gonna play more than four games a week ever. Adam Silver, who I love and respect, killed all the back to back. He killed all the back to backs. So you don't have to play back to back games anymore. But I know what they're doing. I wish they, you know, how would somebody lie to you? And you know their line? Yeah, I wish they would say, hey, guys, the reason I practice load management is I'm trying to extend my career a couple years so I can make an extra 50, 60, $70 million.

Right.

Just tell me the truth. Because that's why they're doing it. Because if you go back and look, and I've seen some of the numbers, if you miss 15 to 17 games a year, you probably gonna get an extra two years, at least one, but more than likely two. If you miss ten to 1520 games a year, you're gonna add a couple extra years to your career. Just tell me, you trying to get extra years and make money? Don't tell me basketball is too hard on your body. You're not playing in fucking Chuck Taylor's. Come on, give me a fucking break.

Well, in the playoff games, if you've been in a lot of playoff games, those are like, what? Worth a game and a half on your body?

Worth a game and a half, yeah. And like I say, a lot of these teams don't even practice anymore.

Yeah.

Steve Kerr always talks about that. He has these young teams, and they're in a ballroom, like, running through plays, and they're not even, like, on a practice court.

A lot of these guys, unkilled, shoot around. So just show up 2 hours before the game. We'll walk through the plays then. So, hey, bless these guys, but, man, just play basketball.

Let's take one more break. Is Wembley a top three guy in the league within the next two years?

I don't know, because I think he's got a bright future, but I don't know how good we mentioned them.

Well, they're a year away. Yeah, they weren't exactly.

No, wait.

They weren't exactly going for a year away. Yeah, well, I don't know if he. If he becomes a top three or four guy in the league.

They don't have to get some other good players because the West Sacramento got better. We didn't even mention them going out. Getting to Marjorie Rosen is a great pickup.

Right?

So what? Damn.

Yeah, this is why I brought it up.

And this I'm trying to think, who are they better than in the west?

The Portland, maybe Portland.

They're better than. They're definitely better than Portland.

And maybe the Clippers. If Kawhi is going to be a 25 game of that big boy from.

Connecticut that Portland got in the draft.

Oh, Donovan Klingon.

I love Clingen. I love him. And listen, first, I will tell you this about the Lakers. I have zero idea why cadets slipped to them that low. That kid should have went much higher when I was getting ready for March. Well, I watched him play a couple of times during the regular season, probably three or four times. But watching him breaking down tape on him doing, man, he know how to play basketball.

But that's like, the Lakers are going to be a soap opera this year. New coach LeBron's going to be, what is he, 40 now? LeBron playing with his son? They might not be that good. There's probably ten west teams that could potentially be better than them. And guess what? ESPN will be leading that first segment with the Lakers. No question, won 24 straight. But let's go to Los Angeles, where the Lakers have lost two in a row.

Is JJ. Is JJ Reddick on the hot seat?

Is JJ on the hot seat? They've only won four of their last ten.

Yeah, I mean, it's so much, you know, that's the thing I love about our job and I hate about our job because I love telling people, Shea Gilders Alexander, we don't ever show OKC. I love Shay Gilders Alexander.

There's some good ones. This, this. The under 25 is a pretty good crop right now. It's very similar to where you guys were in the. In the mid to late eighties when that new class was coming up.

Yeah, I know. You see how quick they turned on Luca in the finals?

I was like, I know that was bullshit. I didn't like that.

Lucas. The only reason they. In the finals, I mean, and then after game one and game two, they're like, luca can't play any defense. He's the reason the self is up two zip, three zip. I'm like, wait a minute. He's the only reason they're in the finals, is he?

I'll tell you, I was fucking terrified every time he had the ball or took a shot. Like, he is a ten out of ten when you're rooting against his team. I'm terrified of him the whole time. I do think he needs to get in better shape on the one hand, but on the other hand, maybe this is the right shape for him. Cause he's so fucking big. He can bully ball, everybody.

Well, I think he needs to get in better shape. But he. He's the only reason no disrespect to Kyrie, but he's the reason they were in the finals. But I just love. I love the fact how quick these talking heads turn on these players. Like I say, the week before, we were bragging, man. This Luca Duncan, is he the next great player?

Right? Is he going to grab the torch? Yeah, I did that podcast.

Yeah. Cause, like. But, like, two weeks before this, how full of shit. People in our business, our bill, like, the week before Michael Jordan is reincarnated. When the athlete, when they were sweeping the sun, he's done KD and everything. They're like, this guy Anthony. I said, yo, man, please stop. I love Anthony Edwards. He's not freaking Michael Jordan. Please stop. Please stop. Then they get beat body math, and.

They'Re like, he cooled off.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. What are we seeing in Luca Duncan? What are we seeing? And then when the Celtics, who had a much better team, go up three zip.

Yeah.

Luca Duncan don't play any defense. He's the reason I'm like, wait a minute, y'all went from. He's the second reincarnation of bird and somebody else combined. But that's the thing I hate about our business, man. There's a lot of. A lot of guys out there with. They turn quickly. Luca Duncan is the only reason they were in the finals, period.

You know, the Anthony Edwards Jordan thing. And I was trying to be, as you know, I'm always going to be in the Jordans, the best player I've ever seen camp unless until somebody passes them. And for me, it hasn't happened yet.

But it hasn't happened yet.

It hasn't happened yet. There were flashes of Edwards, and I'm sure you felt it, too. And you even got to play against Jordan. He had some moments in those first two rounds where it was like, oh, yes, yeah, there's glimpses and Kobe. Young Kobe had the same thing. There were some Kobe moments where it was like, oh, but we're never seeing another Jordan. I think what's interesting about Edwards for me, and I'm not just saying this because you're on the pod, he has such a life and a positive energy and such a great personality that it reminds me of when you came in in the mid eighties and everybody was like, you know who's a really good interview? Charles Barkley. Oh, you know who's really fun? And the personality started to become part of the package for you. And I think that I, to me, like, the league needs somebody like him. That is just. I just think he's this enchanting guy. You could fill it in the Olympics. He was, like, in the middle of everything.

Well, I think that not patting myself on the back, and I think, Anthony, when I've seen your Mandez, we're just basketball players, right? We're not teachers. We're not firemen. We're not policemen. We making a ridiculous amount of money. I'm getting paid millions of dollars to play a stupid ass game. I've always known that, and I think Anthony knows that. I think Giannis practices that also.

Yeah, but you know what Edwards has, though? There's an authenticity to him that I think is harder and harder to find in sports in 2024, when everything is so managed. Everybody has a team. Every decision is made with such a purpose, publicly. And you were never like that. You're just like, here's what I think.

And I don't.

The same way. It's like, here's what I think.

Here's what I think I'm gonna be. Cause what happened to me, I had a turning point in Philadelphia because, you know, first of all, everybody wants to be liked. Anybody tell you I love when I hear guys, two things that drive me crazy about players. I don't watch television or read the newspaper. Shut the fuck up. Of course you watch television and read the newspaper. What are you doing? Are you just sitting in your house in the dark the whole time?

Please stop there. Also, they're trapped in a hotel room or their place out there. They're fucking famous.

They can't go anywhere, you know? You know what's even worse? They mom, they dad, they sister, wife, they girlfriend. I'll fucking tell them when they hear somebody says something about them. So shut the fuck up. Tell them. You don't pay attention. But my second thing is, I don't care what other people think. Everybody cares what other people think. But they have to be fair. So for me, it was my second year in the league. I had to sit down with doctor J. I said, doc, I'm getting some. Some of the stuff I'm saying. I'm getting some blowback, right? So we sit down. He says, son, what are you asking me? I said, man, I want everybody to like me. He looks at me, he says, oh, yeah, you're just wasting your time trying to. It doesn't matter what you say. Everybody's not going to like you. You're going to have to make a decision whether you're just going to be a straight shooter, and they still going to hate you half the time anyway. But you can't play volleyball with your opinions. You can't be trying to say something to pee this group. Then get over here and says something about this group.

And I said, so if I just be straight honest, he says, that's the best way to be, but you're going to get blowback on that anyway. So, bill, that's when I made up my mind. I'm like, hey, you know what? I cannot make all these people happy. Half of them gonna hate me, and half of them don't like me or whatever. And I said, I'm gonna just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they made.

Well, you made a lot of tape recorders happy back in the beat recorder days.

These guys have a job to do. I've always understood. See, this one thing I hate about players, they want all the money and all the accolades and all the stuff that goes with this, but they don't want any other responsibility. I'm like, yo, man, you sign autographs, you take pictures, you talk to the press. All that bullshit goes with being rich and famous. You don't get to not. Yeah, people gonna interrupt you at dinner sometimes. You reporters gonna run to you. And this is another thing that drives me crazy. They run to the reporters when they have a good game or things going good, and then when they have a bad game, they want to be smug with the press, give you one word answers. I'm like, nah, man, you don't get to get your cake and eat it, too. Most of the reporters I've ever met have been great people. They got a job to do. When I played great, they wrote great things about me. When I didn't play great, they wrote some criticism. And the first thing, Doctor J, after we had that conversation, he says, the first thing you have to ask yourself about criticism, is it fair?

He says, before you get mad at that reporter or something like that, look in the mirror and says, was the criticism fair? And sometimes it was and sometimes it wasn't.

Yeah, I remember in the late seventies, Doctor J took a ton of shit. Cause remember he was coming in the league and people were like, this guy's gonna be amazing. He's gonna revolutionize basketball. And then the sixers, they lost in the finals. Then the next two years, his knees were hurting. He was doing that well. And this was a theme for two years, but nobody that. We didn't have the same media infrastructure back then. But it was a lot of. What's wrong with Doctor J? There's Sports Illustrated pieces about it now. That stuff's like 100 times bigger. The stuff that happened to you in Philly in the. In the early nineties, in the social media would be so much bigger now.

Yeah. You know, it was very. It was crazy because I had to hear about me getting traded my last three years in Philly.

Yeah.

And it was stressful. Like, there was the sport news came out with a cover. It had me in, like, eight different jerseys, and it was wearing on me.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you a funny story. So I get arrested in Milwaukee my last year in Philly.

Is that the window incident?

No, that was Florida. These three weightlifters accosted me.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

So I get arrested. So I'm in. I'm in Milwaukee on trial.

You were on trial? I don't remember that.

Oh, yeah, I was on trial. Trust me.

Oh, man. So it's like you and OJ.

That's right. I didn't kill people. So I spent every day with my lawyers, obviously, in court. But at night, we would sit around. I made my mind like, let's work on this letter to the Sixers.

Yeah.

I'm not fucking coming back. I'd have too much.

Too much baggage.

Too much baggage. So we spend all week writing this letter because I said, hey, I don't want the fans involved. You guys handle this how you want to. I want to thank you all for eight great years. It's been incredible. Philadelphia has always treated me great. It always be a special place in my heart. I had this beautiful letter written, and I would like to keep this private. Cause I don't want the fans to think I just had enough of y'all.

Yeah.

I had enough of the organization. And so I get acquitted. On a Friday, I fly back to Philly. I bought a whole plane, drinks. I'm on cloud nine. Me and my boys go out Friday night, celebrate. We get drunk. Saturday night, we get drunk. Sunday, I'm on the phone with my agent and my attorney. Send this shit out first thing Monday morning.

Yeah.

2 hours later, I get a phone call from the Sixers. I've been treated to the Phoenix Suns, and, man, the whole world is lifted off my shoulders. The whole. I felt it was crazy, Bill. I was so ecstatic. I called my friends. I was like, a letter, going out tomorrow. Then I called my. No need for the letter. What happened? I just got traded to the Phoenix Suns. And, man, we went out and had some. It was the best alcohol I think I've ever had in my life. We celebrated, and the next day, I was on a flight to Phoenix.

So do you identify at all when some of these players get unhappy? I mean, the unhappy thing is much faster now. Somebody can go to a new team and be unhappy in 18 months.

That's called the assholes in the media. They've made it seem like if you don't win the championship, you a bomb, or it's the end of the world.

Yeah.

Like, the reason Michael will always be my goat is he went through all those struggles.

Yeah.

I look at all these other guys. Like, as much as I love LeBron, he lost one time. He went to the finals, but he lost to the Celtics. Like, no, I'm gone. Like, yeah, you ain't supposed to win the champion. It's supposed to be hard to win the championship.

He did in 14, too. That was a leaving Miami.

Now.

Maybe that was the plan to leave Miami.

Yeah. But I was like, yo, man, it's supposed to be hard. Yeah, I saw the same thing with KD. Like, nah, like, dude, you ain't supposed to. It's supposed to be hard to win the championship.

But that's the thing. That's why I brought up the football example before about, like, somebody like Josh Allen who hasn't even been in the Super bowl, right? And he's been there for a while. He's one of the best players.

First of all, I'm so glad you bought this football stuff up. I want to say something that's really pissing me off. I had enough of this Belichick slander. I've had enough.

Now you're preaching the choir.

I'm going to tell you guys something. I am so sick of all these idiots and fools on television bad mouthing bill, because I'm sitting back like, this guy went to the Super bowl nine times. One, six. And just because y'all don't like his personality, you like, I hear guys talking about, you can't coach like that anymore. I'm like, you mean like the greatest coach ever, right? And I says, like, they're like, well, he didn't do anything without Tom Brady. I'm like, well, Tom Brady didn't play by herself. And I love Tom. I got number, love and respect for Tom. But I'm like, exactly how many championships does Andy Reid won without Patton Holmes?

And you read got fired in Philly.

Yeah. I said, well, Mike Tomlin. I'm a Mike Tomlin fan. Exactly how many Super Bowls did he win without Roethlisberger? Sean Payton. Great coach. I consider Sean a friend. How many champions he won without Drew Brees? So this this just because you don't like a guy. Bill Belichick is the greatest football coach ever. I saw Tom say that recently, and I 100% agree. I'm just sick of the Belichick slander, and I'm sick as Damian Woody. There's two people at ESPN who I like. Damien Woody and Lewis Riddick.

Okay? That's it. That's the entire list.

Oh, Mike. Mike Wilbaugh, Kornhauser. I love those guys. They're like brothers to me. Older brothers, I might add.

I love those guys.

But Damien Woody says something. Cause they were talking about how overrated Josh Allen was.

Yeah.

And he went crazy. He's like, wait a minute. Yeah, let's look at his games against Pat Mahomes. They're talking about, nobody can beat Pat Mahone. That football game. Well, they. Pat got down the field and won an overtime.

13 seconds.

Yeah.

Best football game I've ever seen. That's not Josh Allen Ball.

Right.

And even last year, they almost beat him. It's Josh Allen Fault. They missed a field goal that would have took the game, probably in the overtime. And these guys get on tv talking about, Josh Allen's overrated. And Damian Willis says, I'm not having any more of this Josh Allen slander. He's played as well as he could against Mahomes both times, and neither time he lost was his fault.

Yeah.

And I'm just so sick of the Belichick and the Josh Allen slander. It's just flat out ridiculous, man. You guys are entitled to opinion, but you have to be fair, because people believe what we say on television.

Yeah.

That doesn't mean you're right, but you have to be fair. Bill Belichick is the greatest football coach ever at the pros, the greatest college coach ever. But just because people don't like you or your personality, they can't get on tv and slander you. It's just total bullshit.

Well, that's why the growth of WNBA, you know, it's starting to become serious when there's really stupid discourse about the league and the players, like, oh, you guys have made it.

Hey, man, welcome these ladies. And I'm a WNBA fan.

It's been good season.

They cannot have fucked this Caitlin Clark thing up any worse if they tried. If you got people in a room.

Yeah.

If you got a bunch of dudes in a room and says, let's fuck up the WNBA, we couldn't have came up a master plan. What these women have done, this girl is incredible. What she did in college for women's basketball. What she's doing in the WNBA, she.

Turned the fever were one and eight. They have a winning record now, but.

The number of attention eyeballs, she's bought the cards and the pros, and for these women to have this petty jealousness. You said to yourself, damn, what is going on here?

Well, you got accused of that stuff, too, with the older players, being resentful of the new generation. It's kind of part of the basketball process. Everybody thinks their generation is the best.

No, no. Anytime we say something about guys, it ain't the old get off my lawn guys. But the stuff toward her is petty and jealous. And the thing I love about her, she never says a word. And now when I watch her, two things I like. She's playing much faster. Yeah, much faster. She was playing too slow the first half of the season. She.

I think she was tired. I think she was banged up from the college.

They didn't even give her the understanding. Like, you girls been awarded for the WNBA season. Y'all been working out on the. No shit. She came straight out of college. You had to go right to the WNBA, like, two weeks later. So they didn't factor there. But I think I factored in when I watched her play the last month. I think she's learning to play much faster because I think she's learning to trust those girls more because she's in college. She's not passing to a bunch of great players. Now. You can see when she plays, playing a lot without the ball, she's mind me a lot of Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd's the best I've ever seen with playing without the basketball. I played with Jason Kidd one time in an all star game. He says, you know, you should be getting like, six to eight points a game more, right? That's what you talking about. He says, I'm gonna kick it ahead to you.

Yeah.

He says, your point guards wait and give you the ball too late. If I give you the ball full speed ahead, instead of waiting for you to finish, you get another eight to ten points a game. She's starting to see now if I play faster and give it to them sooner, so that tells us she's really smart. But these ladies, who I love and respect their game, they couldn't have fucked this thing up in a worse, because we have talked and talk about Asia. Asia Wills, the best woman player in the world right now. She's incredible. Connecticut Sons having a great year. That Memphis, Minnesota, links is having a great year, but it's been so much negativity. And a lot of it is just petty jealousness. And I love the way she just. And I think what really good happened to her not making the Olympic team.

Totally agree. Well, it also gave her a break.

That's. That's what I was getting ready to say.

Yeah.

Giving her that time off has given her a chance to recharge her batteries. So it end up. She probably did deserve to make the Olympic team on merit, but her getting that time off probably was the best thing happened to her.

Well, the other thing that happened, her teammates, you could see, like, a little osmosis. You watch that team now, and they're pretty unselfish to watch. Like, they're making extra passes. And it's the kind of stuff that happens when you're playing with a great player.

Well, but some of that is.

Which I've enjoyed.

But some of that's her fault, Bill, because she's, like I say, she. I think she had one other girl on our team who made it to the WNBA, but she's learning now I can play without the ball. That goes back to remember when Tex winner says, michael, oh, the triangle. You have to trust these other guys, because, first of all, it's going to make it easier on you playing without the ball. It's much easier. Like, for me, I can use myself as an example. Not that it's about me. When I got traded to Phoenix and they gave me Dan Marley, Kevin Johnson, Sid Ceballo and those guys, man, it goes back to the stuff I told you about the Olympics, man, it was just so easy for me to play basketball because I didn't have to make every pass. I didn't have to score every basket. And I think Caitlin is learning that now. Like, oh, I can trust her. I can trust her. I can trust her. I can trust her. I tell people. That's why I said earlier about the Olympics, man, when you. The game is so easy when you play with better players.

The game is only hard when you play with guys who suck, you know? You know, like, because everybody is looking at you. They're like, chuck got the ball. Every defender is looking at you. But when you playing with Marley, KJ Ceballos, when I won MVP, that was the easiest basketball I ever had to play.

The other thing they have to figure out is, anecdotally, I can't believe how many people in my life have been watching the WNBA and have hardcore opinions on it. Getting an angel, Reese versus Caitlin Clark, rookie of the year arguments. And first team Omb. They got to figure out the schedule for the playoffs. Cause I just think going against football is. Is just a no win situation. I would love to see them try to figure out the little nooks so that they can actually get attention.

The number one thing they gotta do is find a way to let people know what the damn games are.

Right? Well, that's another issue. It's on four places.

It doesn't even matter about magic. It don't even matter about the playoffs.

Yeah.

If you have to go to. I saw some. I was watching some game that, like. It's called Ion.

Ion.

Yeah, it's been huge for Ion. Yeah, no, it's been good for them.

I don't even know. I was like, damn. I mean, like, no, you can't ask basketball fans to try to find a. I mean, they were about to make.

You a big offer. Now they're going to pull it. Hey, listen, you slashed your eye on buddy.

Hey, hey, listen, man, let me tell you something. Hey, you got to wait till that LinkedIn profile come out. I was joking around. I was just. I'm a file out a LinkedIn profile, and it's going to be like, I've never had a real job, so I don't even know how to write that down. Like, what's your. What's on your resume? I'm like, well, I never had. I've never had a real basketball player. Basketball players? Well, that's not a real job. They're going to be like, well, that's not a real job. I said, no, it's not. But they paid me, so I call it a real job.

Well, the. I mean, the most impressive thing you've done, I think you broke Muhammad Ali's record for most times. Retiring?

No, actually, you know, you know, I'm so glad you asked me that question.

Because it's not a question, it's a fact.

No, no, I. Bill, let me tell you something. I love when people say that. I said, well, if you would actually. They would listen to what I said. I have been very specific on my retirement.

So you're not retiring?

Well, I am at some point.

Come on, you love this. What are you going to retire for? You're still fantastic at this.

No, because I'm over 60 is the new 50. Yeah. Okay. That's what all young people say. Wait till your ass get my age. So my original game plan was a retired 60. I made that. And I told TNT, I said, I'm retiring at 60. And they're like, okay. And I said, hey, I'm just giving y'all a heads up. I'm retiring next year. They're like, you got to stay till the new deal is done. I'm like, fuck.

Oh, because they needed you for the negotiation.

Yes. But little did I know they were going to fuck that up. And I was like, I say, you know what? You guys been great to me. Yeah, I'll stay for two more years. So next year was supposed to be my last year, and I was going to walk off into the sunset, but little did I know, like I just said, because it would have been perfect to pass the torch to Vince Carter or Jamal Crawford. Hey, 25 years. Thank you all. I'll be 62 years old, and the market rates came. I said, oh, this is actually even better for me. I can walk away after next year and don't have to worry about going to another network.

Yeah.

And so when they came to meet with me, they're like, we want to keep doing the show. I was like, what? We don't even have basketball. And so it really put. Threw me for a loop. The only good thing about it, I got to keep a lot of people their job.

Yeah.

But I made it very clear, man. I'm not going to keep working forever. I'm going to do at least one more year so everybody can keep their job for another year. First of all, I have zero idea what we're going to do. Let me get that out the way.

Well, you have basketball next year, at least.

Yeah. So we were already going to do next year no matter what, but they said they want to keep doing the show a year after that. And I said, guys, I can't just keep working to be working. Like I really. I tell people, yo, man, this ain't my real job. This is my second job. And I says, listen, I ain't worried about death. It's the big fella gonna come get us all. But I don't want to die on tv. I'll be 62 years old. I've been working. I've been in a limelight since I was 18. I'm a grandpa now.

Yeah, you've 40 years since the. Since like that when you did make the Olympic team, when you.

Yes. So I'm like, man, I'm good. Y'all have given me the greatest life a person could have. I love y'all. Thank y'all. Thank y'all. Thank y'all. But at some point, I want to retire sooner than later, plain and simple.

I don't think you're going to retire.

Well, it's going to be interesting, because I have zero idea what we're going to do because we won't have basketball.

But you're talking a year from now.

Yes, but I have zero idea what we're going to do.

Would it make more sense for one of the partners just to grab the show, though?

What makes it even funnier? They don't even have no idea what we're gonna do. So I'm sitting. I'm sitting in this meeting in Philly. I'm like, we wanna keep doing the show. I was like, what do you mean? Like, we wanna keep y'all together. I says, well, I would consider that. Cause I want all my friends to keep their job. I said, what are we gonna do? They're like, we haven't figured that out yet. I'm like, what? I says, we won't have basketball. What the hell are we going to do? And so that's the thing. That's the thing. That's fascinating. Like I say, I know we got one more year with the NBA, then we're going to lose it. And they want to do the show at least another year. But I'm like, we don't even have basketball. We're going to pay for highlights.

So they were saying, we'll figure it out, but they just lost the NBA. So tough. Tough, maybe to have the trust that the next decision is going to go awesome. It's like you just fucking lost the NBA over, like, four conference finals games.

And I got a truck, y'all. It is what it is, brother.

Well, listen, I mean, it's certainly the most imitated show. I still think people don't completely understand why it works so well. You're the biggest reason. But four people with chemistry, with a host that drives it. I remember coming to see you in Atlanta in, like, 2002 to write about it, and the show hasn't changed, really since 2002. It's the same formula. Well, and yet everybody else fucks it up. Like, remember the women's basketball in the college tournament and the ESPN? They had a really good studio show, three people, and they were excellent. And then it got to the final four, and they're like, we're gonna bring in two more people. Now we have five. It's like you guys just fucking struck oil with the show. What are you doing? Yeah, you know, they can't help themselves.

You know, if people would understand. You have to have a mixture of basketball and fun and like, they. People like, you can't be all fun and no basketball. You can't be all basketball because you're trying to reach two different audience. I always tell my sister, we already got the basketball fans. We already got that. The people gonna watch basketball, gonna watch. The key is, can we make it fun for the wife, the girlfriends and the kids? And they give us complete control and.

They give you time to talk. They give you seven to ten minute segments, which is another thing people don't realize.

100%, 100%.

They give you time to breathe and do your thing. Yeah, it's. It's funny.

Hey, Bill, I'll tell you something. There's times when we're talking and they're like, we got to go to commercial. And we'll be like, shut the fuck up. We're not done, right?

Let's keep going.

Nobody want to see another fucking commercial. Hold it. Because, like, sometimes they'll be in your ear. I like, hey, shut the fuck up. We still talking here, right? Because I thought, yo, Mandez, you can't, like, sometimes you need time to explain, especially when you're talking about something serious, but sometimes you're trying to explain something, they're in your damn ear, like, we gotta go, we gotta go. I said, what the hell are we going? We hear from seven to two in the morning. You can't hold a commercial for another damn minute.

Well, you guys figured it out, whatever it was. That's the other thing that people I think miss with it, is you. The four of you would have that combo anyway. I know we've made these points a million times, but it has to have four people. And I think it's either four or three. It shouldn't be five before people that would hang out and talk basketball regardless of whether the cameras were on. And they never figured that part either. They'll just throw. They think it's like a fantasy team. And we'll see what happens with these new deals when Amazon and NBC are putting people together and be like, well, we got this, got this, and we're good. And they put no thought into, well, would those three people hang out together?

Yeah, that's what's going to be fascinating.

In what respect?

Like, putting their teams together. Yeah, because she just can't cherry pick people. Like you said, they got to have chemistry. You say like, yeah, I want to hang out and talk basketball with this guy or this girl. So who NBC and Amazon put together is going to be amazing.

I'm still not ruling you out. It still feels like the smartest solution. All this is just to take the entire infrastructure you guys have and move it to a different network. That is basketball and I don't understand why that wouldn't happen.

Well, number one, I don't think Ernie would go. I don't think Ernie would go because.

He doesn't want to leave Atlanta.

Ernie would. Yeah. Ernie would leave Atlanta ever.

And so film in Atlanta.

Well, I.

Listen, we got to work on Ernie. Hey.

Hey. Everything is on the board.

Yeah.

Hey, Bill, as I told you earlier, I have. We have zero fucking idea what's going to happen after this year. Zero.

Well, as I. I think you have, like, three or four more retirements in you over the next, like, twelve months. It's going to be like, what? Ali just kind of is like spinks. This is it. I'm done.

I saw him fight.

It's like spinks to.

I'm back. You know, Muhammad Ali is one of my heroes. I actually just watched the Larry Holmes fight sometime in the last couple of weeks. I love watching old boxing matches.

Not that one.

That was ugly.

That's a bad one.

That's a bad one.

Well, you know, boxing's had an incredible resurgence. It's another one. Boxing in the WNBA are the two winners of 2024. There's more good boxing fights in that we've had in a while.

Yeah, but they won't all fight each other. That's the one thing I hate. Boxing is my second favorite sport. I told you.

But now they're starting to fight each other because the Saudis are like, here's money.

510 years. I know, because Mayweather and packout should have fallen five years before they. But now.

But now we're in a good spot. Like, have you seen Bacoli, the heavyweight who looks like George Foreman?

I have, but let me tell you something.

That's my guy.

But listen, Anthony Joshua is a stud, but I want to see. They got Canelo fight next weekend. Yeah, against Berlanga Benavides to me. You got Bud Crawford out there right now, man. It's some good fights that they would make them.

The heavyweights are good. Now. We got some good cards coming up. I'm bullish on boxing. All right, Chuck, what's your football prediction before we go? Who you have for the Super bowl?

Well, my eagles are going to the Super bowl.

Okay. I didn't know if you were serious with that, but we're going for Eagles. Against who?

The Buffalo Bills.

Buffalo Bills.

And the Buffalo Bills win their first super bowl. They are the most underrated, great team ever to make it. The four straight Super Bowls will never, ever happen again. I got the Eagles against the Bills, and the Bills win their first Super bowl.

So I have the Lions over the Texans.

Oh, my God. Let me tell you something. I got a man crush on Dan Campbell. I love that dude. I love Mister Dan Campbell. Let me tell you something. I was on the Lions bandwagon all last year.

You loved him.

I loved Dan Campbell. I got to meet Dan Campbell.

So I picked the Lions, a team that hasn't won in 1950, since 1957. And you took the bills, a team that's never won, I don't think, ever since like, maybe 1960. And those are our two picks. So I'm going to say we're probably going to be wrong and Patrick Mahomes will win again.

That's the best thing about when sports start every year, man.

Yeah.

Possibilities.

The possibilities are amazing.

Well, if Mahomes wins this year, now, now we can. Officially, I'm not ready to have the Jordan conversation, but I'm willing to assemble everybody in the room so we can start thinking about it.

You mean you. Let's. Let's stop that debated conversation. Okay? Let's don't go to Jordan yet.

Well, I'm just. Four Super Bowls and a three beat.

If he win three in a row, we can have the Tom Brady conversation, right? I'm just saying. Not to Jordan yet.

It's just Jordan. The three in a row. It made me think of that when Jordan did the three peat. But the three people.

The three peat, Ollie, I get mad at people. Listen, I love Pat. I hate when people try to push him already past Brady, because what, Brady did ten Super Bowls. Come on, man. Come on.

Stop it.

Crazy.

Also, they're, they're going to provoke Brady and they're coming back again.

Oh, I tell you what, I cannot wait to see him. I think gonna be fabulous on television.

I think he's gonna be good. I. The reports are he took it seriously. He's putting in the time. He's actually gonna say shit. The fact that he did the roast made me think, dude, let me tell you something.

This dude take everything serious.

Yeah, yeah.

So he gonna be great at eight. I tell you what, Belichick gonna be great on tv, too.

Well, he's on every tv. He's doing like five different shows. I'm worried he might have done too much.

Well, he don't have a job, so he got plenty of time.

He's got. Well, he knows he's gonna be coaching in February. He's just grabbing those checks for six.

That's right.

Charles Broccoli. Great to see you. I'm glad all as well hey brother.

Hey, you know I got a lot of love for you, man. Anytime you leave, you let me know.

All right? Great to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Charles Barkley. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Ceruti for producing as well. I'm going to see you on Thursday for a million dollar picks and a lot more. Don't forget rewatchables. Night shift is up. You can watch on the Winger movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. I will see you on Thursday.

Wanna see them when we start that I said I don't have a few years with him.

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