Coming up, I am unhappy with the Celtics and a lot more basketball. Next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network, where on Monday at 03:00 p.m., ET, 12:00 p.m. PT on the brand new Ringer movies YouTube channel, we are going to be doing a live rewatchables, a movie that we did at the very start of the feed seven years ago. We barely had any categories. It's time to redo it. It's one of the most rewatchable movies the last 30 years. Jerry Maguire. That's right. Doing it live. Me, Van Lathan, Chris Ryan, Sean fantasy. Probably go for 2 hours. I cannot wait. Subscribe to YouTube.com at ringermovies and you will be able to watch it. It's going to be a good one. God only knows what's going to happen coming up on this podcast. You know, sometimes you got to get sarcastic on the B's podcast. And the NBA playoffs has reached the point where we're just going to have to turn the sarcasm up. So I brought my favorite sarcastic duo, Joe House and big wise Woznia Lambre. And we're going to react to tonight's games. How I feel about the Celtics, which is not great, guys.

I do not feel good about the Celtics and OKC Dallas, the other playoff series. And we created a game specifically to be sarcastic. So that's all coming up. Our friends from Pearl Jam. I don't know if you saw this on YouTube.com. Illsimmons. We went into their baseball cage and we looked at all their baseball stuff. Eddie Vedder gave us a tour. It's incredible. It's a really fun, like nine minutes on YouTube. So go check that out. And by the way, Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this a little before 930 Pacific time. Joe House is here. Big Woz is here. We're gonna talk basketball to happen tonight. We're talking about round two. We're gonna do. I came up with a sarcastic segment for us to do later. We just watched Dallas beat OKC house. I happen to be watching today even though it wasn't on video on my tv. Cause I like listening podcasts on my tv in the morning. The Ringer gambling show. And you declared the OKC Dallas series over. You said it was a wrap. You said it was done. And Dallas came out and whooped OKC's ass. And. And now the series is tied.

Do you want to apologize to the city of Dallas?

Well, no. And to be fair, the one caveat that I offered on the show was we did not know where Luca was going to go for his knee treatment. I deliberately said on the show, if Luca finds Kobe's knee, doctor, if he finds the ointment, the unguent, the salve, the balm to apply to his knee, and comes out with a magically repaired, you know, knee, then all bets are off. And by golly, now, the interesting thing to me, and I'm interested in your take on this, I believe that the fact that he smashed his face on the floor within the first three minutes of the game had some kind of effect on, like, resetting his brain. Yeah, it did.

It like.

Like the adrenaline, the normal adrenaline of the game got changed into face smash adrenaline, and all of a sudden, his touch looked awesome. Like, the arc on his shots, his step backs, he didn't miss. It feels like in a number of consecutive shots after he bashed his face on the floor. So I do feel like there was a little bit of that element to go along with. He looked good. He moved well, and that's. This is the key. This, the whole series comes down to Lucas knee when he was.

Then he bashed OKC's face. So what do you think? Was Germany too far from OKC? Miami, even? That's a little complicated. Mexico seems close for.

Mexico is very close to me, that.

That seems like a 40 minutes flight for him.

Mexico is very close to the border and in Texas. And also, they have way looser pharmaceutical restrictions. Right. Cheaper pharmaceuticals, I may or may not know.

Inappropriate conversation. I love it.

I'm just saying. I'm not saying Luca did this. He could have, but I personally know some meatheads that may or may have gone down there for some HGH in the past. Just saying.

Well, I'll tell you this, because I actually don't think Luca got the Kobe treatment, because one of the things that I wrote down was, I love watching players when they're playing with some sort of, like, injury slash handicap. These were always some of my favorite Larry bird performances way back when, when he had the back brace on. But just in general, the flu game with Jordan, um, Kobe in 2000, 2009, or 2010, when his knee was bugging him and he kind of fought through it and all of a sudden went up a level. Germany might have helped with that one, but one of the things I liked about him in this game was he figured out exactly what pace he wanted to play at was. Yeah. And was just like, I'm going to play at this pace. You can be as physical as you want, I'm really strong. You're not going to knock me off the shots. I want to get. He had a couple threes that got him going in the first half, but this was just like the stat. It wasn't like an amazing stat Luca game. It was a pretty typical Luca game.

But to me, I liked, I liked the general, I'm a little handicapped, but I know how to deal with it demeanor. You agree with that?

I love that point. It's almost as if he became razor sharp in how he wanted to attack. There was no dancing, there were no heat checks, there were no, oh, let me take seven dribbles, break a guy down. He was like, okay, I'm going to pick some very specific spots that I can hit and I'm only doing that. And then, of course, he makes a couple of shots. Makes a couple of, make a couple of his patented step backs, particularly from three. And I think that actually opened up everything because OKC, because Lucas started so hot, they started changing their coverages on him and making him try to sort of give the ball up a little bit early. And I thought that was like a pressure relief release valve for Dallas's offense after that, man. Like once they started sending two to the ball, he was getting it out quick, letting Gafford and lively even spray the shooters. Sometimes the disastrous effect, but sometimes they found the right guys. Actually, not even sometimes, oftentimes. And other times they took it all the way to the cup. I thought him making shots early was of the utmost importance because it dictated how OKC decided to cover him the rest of the game.

I wasn't sure House was awake, but when you said pressure release valve, I saw him jostle for a second. I don't know why PJ Washington had seven three's.

House.

Yeah, that was helpful. I got a shout out. Kyrie. Again, it's been the spring of praising Kyrie, which means it's going to rain frogs in July, Magnolia style. But I thought he was really good in the game today.

Me too.

He was just kind of, he didn't score. He was just kind of controlling the game and just kind of picking his spots, jumping in and out. And then the biggest play of the game at the end when if OKC got a rebound, they could have cut it to two possession game. He fights, gets the rebound, takes to the corner and step backs threes right in front of their bench and talk shit afterwards. It was great. But I. House, I don't know what to do in this new 2024 where I like watching Kyrie play basketball and I would defend him to other people.

You just gotta roll with it. We gotta roll with it for as long as it lasts. But that's kind of the theme for this Dallas team. Going back to the pressure release valve observation. Like, look, if you're going to get twelve for 20 from three point range for PJ Washington and Tim Hardaway, junior and Josh Green, those dudes went twelve for 20 from three. And Oklahoma City, the best shooting team in the NBA over these past, you know, 85 games, 89 games, whatever it is, ten for 30 tonight from three. So there you go, right? This is, it's a, it's a make or miss league. Dallas shot 49% from three as a team. You know, we got the PJ Washington game. B's, you, this is, this is your guy. Post trade deadline, you've been on PJ Washington.

It's a.

Show me, show me something.

I've admitted defeat on the PJ Washington trade. I like how he plays for them. There was stuff I didn't know when they made the trade. I'm going to take the loss. I'm not making an offense, but I didn't know the whole Dallas background with him. I wasn't aware of that whole backstory with him and Nico Harrison and how, how much I knew that he had been the playoffs. Sometimes it's fun to bet on those guys that haven't gotten a taste, you know, I think Gafford is a good example of that house watch Gaffer just playing in these meaningless games for years. But the PJ Washington, I've always wanted to be here. I'll do whatever it takes. I also, seeing him in person a couple of times, I thought he handled himself in kind of a badass play. What it was, he, he got into it a few times with the Mavs and, you know, there are those different guys when they get into it. There's like the hold me back guys. There's the, there's the I'm actually going to kill you guys. There's the let's go fight in the, in the Runway guys. And then there's the guys who, they just kind of smile at the other guy with a kind of, just a slightly slazy, crazy look on their face.

And I think those are my favorite guys. They're ready to fight, but they're not doing anything. They're just kind of waiting on you, but they're ready, whatever happens.

PJ Washington, man, his confidence is growing as the playoffs go. His first game, game one against the Clippers, he had a terrible first half, missed a bunch of wide open looks. The Clippers were basically playing him like, all right, we're going to treat you like you're Tony Allen or Tony struggless of New York.

Nick Faith, like, forgot about that.

As if you're a non entity.

Right?

And he had the bad. He had the bad first half. But Luca, to his credit, kept finding him. And towards the end of the game, when the Clippers tried to load up on Luca, they were about two straight possessions where PJ Washington gets a pass in the corner, he fires and he makes it. And that ultimately was the difference in that game. And I was like, man, if PJ Washington is going to be a playoff type of, you know, rotation guy, he has to take that with the utmost confidence, but he also has to make it. And I think after that, man, he's taking these shots. As soon as he's got daylight, he is firing that thing. And tonight was no different. Obviously, he got hot. He's not a 70, you know, he's not a 67% shooter from three. But just the fact that he takes it with that much confidence isn't afraid to put it on the floor. He had a nice play where they set a back cut for him on the baseline. He catches it 2ft in the paint and one on Shay Gilgis. So he's attacking from all angles. It's just been a home run so far, man.

He's playing big minutes, house. He was 35 minutes a game against Clippers, and tonight he played 40 40. And I think after the top two, he's the. He's become their third most indispensable guy. Cause it's. It's kind of roulette with all the wings. You don't know. Is Josh Green going to make a three tonight? It's. Hardaway showed up tonight. I have no idea if that's going to happen. Oh, he's going to show up and then the two centers seem to be interchangeable, but PJ seems like he's out there now, so they know that. I say, I should say I still think OKC is going to win the series. I thought Dallas played as well as they could play tonight and there were some OKC issues that I want to get into, but actually, let's get into this one, House. I don't love the fact that OKC has trouble getting big rebounds when they really matter. Did you notice, like, they're kind of a gang rebounder team? One of the bets I did before the series, House knows, was I bet on chat for most rebounds in the series, it was plus 225. He had the best OKC ads.

I think he's got like the fifth or 6th most rebounds in these first two games and was bad tonight when, when Chet's bad, he's bad. Like you're like, oh, he looks rough. But the rebounding, just thinking about this team, especially when they, if they end up playing Minnesota next round, like I, it still feels like they're a big rebound guy. Short. Would it. Have you noticed that house?

Well, I like the point. Yes, for sure. And it's the thing that was, you know what, we had a circle coming in sort of playoff preview wise. What's the vulnerability of this Oklahoma City thunder team? Are they going to go up against somebody with size and not be able to, you know, get enough offensive rebounds? And Huey Brown kept saying that Dallas key for tonight was to make sure that OKC, it was a one shot offensive possession each time down the floor. And they, they really did manage that. And they won the rebounding battle. Dallas did. By just a couple. It was like 44, 42, something like that.

But they had 1212 offensive, though. For Dallas.

Yes, for Dallas.

And a couple of big ones in the fourth.

That's right. Yes, exactly. So that, that is the vulnerability. And to Dallas's credit, you know, part of what they had to figure out after game one is like this Maxi Klaber thing is a big deal. They're in their version now of five out. But that really starts with Luca coming up and making his first three or four shots, getting into a flow and then, you know, the double comes. And Lucas masterful at finding guys at the corner. I mean, there was some beautiful.

More Washington for the Cuba minutes. Washington gets like, that's six more of those. And then they basically need Hardaway to not look like he's washed up 100%. Those two things.

Obviously, OKC's main weakness, glaring weakness, was heft in the front court with just functional size. That that's been their problem all season. Everybody knew that would be a problem going into the playoffs. I think the challenge for Dallas is like Will Gafford and lively actually make them pay for said weakness. I think in certain ways they have. You guys mentioned the offensive boards. I thought Gafford, man, was getting into Chet's chest and just going right after him at the basket. Man, when he was catching it on the move or when he caught it close to the basket, he went up strong and tried to score. Another thing that I thought, you know, they did a pretty good job. I thought they missed a couple of layups in the paint when this happened, when some of the smaller guys like Isaiah, Joe, and Wiggins and some are OKC, smaller guys got caught up on the back switches and stuff like that. The big man went right at him, you know, sort of cleared space and tried to try to just basically take advantage of the size advantage. Lively missed a couple. He missed way too much bunnies for my liking.

But still, I like the activity. I like that these guys are playing aggressive. They're going up strong. That's the game plan I feel like you have to have against OKC because it is such a glaring vulnerability. It is.

Well, you know why I was a must win for Dallas today. They're playing on Saturday at 1230 or 1230 Pacific time. But, wow, that's a tough turnaround for Luca. Cause Lucas hitting the point, he wanted to go down three, four times during the game where I was like, oh, he's hurt. And then, you know, then he would kind of do the Luca thing and get up. He. It was a full fledged Luca performance. I think he yelled at the refs at least 17 times. Uh, took offense to a bunch of different things, did. It was just the whole package. He's really, uh, he's really something. He has a shot that I think he's had, but I feel like in the playoffs, it's gone to another level. When he's doing the foul line, post up game, and he turns around, then comes in on the guy, and it seems like he's almost going to get tied up for a jump ball, but then he bounces off the guy and then gets a shot because he's 260.

Pounds and it's kind of 232, 30.

Whatever, but that's kind of house. Why didn't you have that move in college? I felt like you could have had that.

Not enough ass. I was too light. I mean, it's literally the difference.

You bony elbows, though.

Bony elbowed the people off. That was. I wasn't enough to create that space.

Who's had that shot in the history of the league, though? That. That, like, kind of big body Larry bird, man. Yeah, Larry has a little bit of space created.

Just create a little, just the utmost little bit of creative space and then let it go. Lucas got that down pat. And you know, another thing about this game, guys, that I'm struck by, man, I hope these NFL players been watching Jalen Brunson last night, come back on a messed up foot. Luca tonight on a bad knee, just gutting it out. You see the toughness the perseverance just facing adversity of these guys. Their body is limping around, and they don't care. They deliver. Even in the playoffs. Man, I really hope these guys are watching the playoffs right now, y'all.

That was the dumbest argument in a while because Anthony Edwards could learn a playbook and be the best player in the NFL tomorrow. Just keep a playbook in seven plays.

And he's in seven Super Bowls.

Anthony Edwards is the new. What was the guy, the Chuck Norris? The Chuck Norris facts would be like, Chuck Norris could beat 42 guys. I just throw Anthony. I think Anthony Edwards could be the best baseball player. I think best hockey player, whatever sport. If he played house, if he played golf for a week and a half, could he win the US Open?

No, definitely not. Golf is. Is, you know, you got. You got to be raised a certain way to be good at golf.

Can we get him at least good enough at golf to be in a celebrity tournament? Because that would be the tv highlight of my year. And let. Except for this year, because Wayne Gro went on the John Mulaney show tonight on Netflix and did stand up in a bathrobe, and I swear to God, it happened. You could watch it. It's at the 40 1 minute 30 mark. He brought out Wayne Grove from heat to do stand up with Bill Hader and David Letterman as sitting on the couch watching it, and he did stand up. House, this is a thing that happened.

What a world. What a world. I can't get off this show so I can go watch that.

For some reason, he didn't say I had to get it on, though. I didn't understand why he didn't. Didn't do that part. House, have you changed your opinion on the series?

No, and the reason is because that felt like the very best version of Dallas. This is the manner in which Dallas its best shot to win these games. And you're talking about variants in two areas. You're talking about Luca health variants, and you're talking about three point shooting variants. And I don't have a great feeling that what we saw tonight out of Dallas is repeatable and sustainable. I feel like what we saw out of Oklahoma City in game one is more likely to occur over the course of this thing. But I will allow that this might go six games instead of just the five games I thought, oh, thanks, house. I will. I will permit that.

Wow. Here's what I like to Fomo Casey. I like all the shots they got. Sure. I thought they got good shots the whole game, and they just missed some of them. SGA is getting wherever he wants. They don't really have anybody to stop him. And I think if they're just looking at it big picture, they're. They're going to realize they lost this game defensively with some of the stuff they're doing, plus some of the shooting. As you watch this back and forth, because we've seen two of these, Luca versus SGA. Do you feel like SGa is equal to Luca? That the ceiling of what he can do is equal to Luca? Do you feel like they're absolutely 50 50 contemporaries? How do you rank it? Just as you're watching it on a television set?

So I think they're absolutely peers. I don't think Luca is like some head and shoulders better player, but, you know, ironically, I think Lucas size is what gives him the leg up for me. Just that he could bring that height and the heft to bear. And it's not just that he has it. He understands how to leverage it, man. Like, this guy can barely get off of the ground. He had one of those classic Luca, change your gears at the basket. He just barely, barely slowed down fast enough to get the guy off balance finish. And he could only do that because he's six foot nine, right. I think the size advantage I still give to Luca, but the way Shay could control, you know, a game and possessions at a time, man, where there were plenty of times it felt like Dallas might blow this thing open and get it to 1716. And Shane, he's got Shay just, you know, just made a bunch of beautiful plays in the mid range. He had one where Luca guarded him and he just did the quickest little subtle step back, splash the three in his eye.

I think Shay is right there, but Luke is just so huge, I gotta give him the slight advantage.

Well, Shea has the defense piece, too. Like, there was times when he was guarding, he's elite. He was guarding Luke on a couple possessions and I was like, jesus, like he's given up. Was like watching a welterweight try to spar with a heavyweight, but he was giving up like 50, 60 pounds. What was your take, house? Watching the two of them go head dead.

So it's hard to compare them because when they're in the same game, what you see is the heliocentric offense of Dallas and Luca touching the ball and guiding the offense on every single goddamn possession. And the same is not true of Oklahoma City. They're a proper five out team, and all of SGA shots are in the flow of that offense. And so I can, when they're not on the same floor at the same time, easily sort of assess the impact that SGa is having. But we're on the. When they're on the floor at the same time in the same game, I'm like, well, I see Luca. He got the ball. He made the right play here. He made this step back there. Sga is getting his. You look up, always got another quiet 30, you know, but it's not. The offense doesn't run through him, and so it's tough to compare them. In my humble estimation, who is.

Who'd you rather have if you're trying to win a title this year?

SgA, without hesitation or reservation, that's my answer as well.

Wise, what do you have?

No, I'm still a Luca guy. I'm still Luca hive here. Like, the guy's hobbled.

Wow. That way, guys, that's just his thing. He can't quit it.

Luca, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman and long cane poly. I watched that rewatchables. That was classic, by the way.

Thank you. I think.

Look, I actually thought Dallas might come in here and win the series before, you know, I realized the gravity of Lucas injury, and I think some of the stuff that I thought would work in their favor showed itself tonight. Some of the big man drives by OKC. It's like, yo, Chad, we get it. You have a handle, and you have that part to your game. Stop doing it. You guys are turning it over every single game. Same thing with Jalen Williams. Like, bro, we get it. You have a nice little skill package for a center. Don't do that. Give that to your guards. Let them handle the sort of driving kick aspect. You guys set hard screens and pop. I just thought Dallas is a legitimate defense, and at certain points in the second half, OKC just looked a little bit combobulated, discombobulated. J Dub, we saw he didn't look as comfortable on the drives. Didn't look as comfortable, you know, challenging Gafford at the cup. He had to settle for a couple of, you know, harried mid range jump shots. I thought Dallas acquitted themselves quite well on defense, man. But OKC does have some things they can, you know, completely fix really quickly.

One, stop treating Luca as if he's Luca. Make that dude prove to you he can do his Luca. Dribble, dribble, dribble. One on one. Don't overhelp. Make him show that he can be an offensive force on one leg. To get giddy the hell up out of my starting lineup, please stop it. You didn't start him for the third quarter. Y'all immediately go on a 13 four run. Stop.

He.

Yo, as soon as this guy came back in, in the third quarter, he throws the ball away on one possession, then bricks it. And it like, I'm just like, bruh, stop it with the giddy minutes. It's. It's serious time.

This reminds you the box score.

I did not.

What's his box score? Eleven minutes -20 sheesh.

Lord have mercy.

Well, this is right. Exactly. This is the maturation of Oklahoma City Thunder right in front of our eyes. I just think it's going to happen at warp speed. Like, I think because of their style of play, all their bodies, their youth is an advantage. I do think that. That, you know, they're going to be able to adjust and, you know, it's. It's literally make or miss for them. The difference is ten for 30 from three versus Dallas having an extraordinary shooting night. And as soon as that regresses at all, it's. It's in the favor of Oklahoma City, in my, in my view.

One thing I noticed when they had, they had Kasan Wallace out there with Dort and with Jalen Williams, and they looked like the fucking legion of boom Seahawks for like three minutes. And I was like, oh, this. They're going to file this away. They're going to look at this. I think part of the key for them in this series is they got to. This has become the recurring theme of the playoffs. Pressure these teams full court. Why are you letting Dallas walk up into the offense? I'm going to. I want to put Miles on Luca and I want to put Miles on Kyrie. If I'm ok, see it because I have the horses. Just make that team dribble up. Anyway, really interesting series. I still think OKC is going to win, but Dallas showed. Showed a lot of stuff today. All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back, we're going to talk about the pathetic Boston Celtics. This NBA playoffs fandom is giving all customers two chances to bring home a big win with a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the playoffs. Just place an SGP on any playoff matchup and you get bonus bets back if you don't win.

Bet on everything from rebounds to assist to three pointers and more. You can also bet on the boost that I'm going to do over the weekend with Fanduel. Check my twitter feed for that. It's going to be some sort of an in series boost, probably involving Oklahoma City and Minnesota. Stay tuned for that Fanduel now live in our nation's capital, Washington, DC. Visit fanduel.com B's shoot your shot on America's number one sports book, Fanduel official sports betting partner, the NBA. You must be 21 plus, 18 plus in DC president select states gambling problem call winner Hunter Gamble or visit rgh dash help.com dot opt in minimum three leg parlay required. Bonus bets are no trouble. Expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 restrictions apply. C terms at sportsbook dot fanduel.com all right, so the Celtics lost tonight. They lost a game, too. It was basically a carbon copy of, of two weeks ago when Miami beat them. With one difference. Miami had, like, a historically great three point shooting performance. In this case, Cleveland just kicked their ass and probably had the four best guys in the game. Not talent wise, like, big picture.

Just today, they had the four guys who played the best in the game. Not just Mitchell, Moby, but Lavert and Garland. And I think what was depressing to me, house, not just that cousin Sal bet Cavs minus nine and a half at 15 one odds and hit that bet. I wish he had told us about 21. Bet 20 to one, whatever it was. I felt like the Celtics were probably going to do this. I was kind of prepared mentally for the stinker, like my dad told me. Yeah, I'm not going tonight. We have to go. This charity thing, I'm like, you're skipping a game. Two of a round, two player games. Like, yeah, like, in general, there was, I don't want to say a malaise around this series in Boston, but there's this just expectation now that the Celts are going to walk to the finals, and anytime there's, there's low expectations for the. So. Oh, we got it. Oh, it's, it's. Let's go. Let's do it. It seems like they can't resist just taking a shithouse. This is what they do. They just take a nice dump on the court.

I mean, once again, Papa doc Simmons, your dad, is the wise man. He knew that. You know who else took the night off to go to a charity event? The Boston Celtics. And the charity, the good people of Cleveland. You know, I'm happy to see it. But look, there's something in this Celtics DNA. Situationally, since the 2020 bubble season, these Celtics are 18 and 22 against the spread in games. After they win and cover, they're four and five against the spread. If they win by 20 or more, they're one and four at home. So you said you watched the rear gambling show this morning. One of the things we hit on and when we laid out the case for this was, you know, we're trying to be creative because talking about this Cleveland Celtics matchup is very difficult. You could go on there and do, you know, correct sequence of wins in the series at 21 to one. We talked up the idea of Boston wins game one, which happened, and the remaining games were Cleveland wins games two and then Boston sweeps the rest.

So gentlemen sweep with Boston new game, too. Well, wow. Boston is 14 and 17 in their last 31 home playoff games. Usually home court is an advantage.

Kind of insane. I think they've played in the last. Before the Magic and Cavs played in their game seven. The last three or four game sevens.

Were played by the Boston subjects.

It's like they play in a lot of long series, and in order to do that, you end up losing a couple of homes games in between. I'm actually as probably the biggest Celtics skeptic on the call right now. I don't think this was the Celtics playing, like, absolutely horribly. I think game two against Miami was a joke, right? Like, they. They treated those guys like they were not professional NBA players. Let them walk into practice threes and, you know, they kind of slept walk through that game. I thought this was the Cavs playing an excellent game.

Evan was tied at halftime.

Evan Mobley was making layups. Evan Mobley was attempting three pointers. Evan Mobley had a career high playoff high of 19 points. By the third quarter. These guys were playing over their heads. And I think I want to give a little bit of love to what Cleveland did tonight. I thought they just played their offense with a sense of purpose that I just hadn't seen them do it all play off long. And we can get into some of the different things that they were doing. But, man, I thought the Cavs were pretty damn good. More so than this was, you know, a classic celtic stinker.

They really defended Tatum. Strusk does a decent job on Tatum, I gotta say, like, very handy. Tatum really wanted to get going in this game and he just couldn't totally do it. And it seemed like part of. Part of Cleveland's strategy was like, hey, Jalen Brown, feel free. And sometimes that gets dangerous. The guards on the Celtics were asleep on both ends. It was a very strange drew holiday game. And then that bench. When you take out Porzingis, sometimes it's great. When Luke Cornett, when you're up 20, it looks awesome. When you're down seven. And Lucornette's in the game and he can't get a rebound. You're like, oh, my God, Lucornette's our 7th man house. The thing that worries me, big picture. Big, big, big picture. Other than the lack of killer instinct, the general softness of this team, that I actually feared that you were going to bring a nice thing of charmin toilet paper and wave it during this. During this pod, I was prepared, prepared for it mentally. The tatum piece of this, this was a big storyline this week after game one because his stats haven't been that good. What do you think?

Dating back to Miami, 2023, the last series they played last year, and then you go, Miami series this year. In the first two Cleveland games, if I told you Jason Tatum took 88 threes in those 14 games dating back to game one, Miami 20, 23, 88 threes, how many do you think he made?

A quarter of them. I mean, my mind's eye is not seeing him make a ton of them. Is he shooting better than 25% from three?

So you're gonna say 22?

Yeah.

What do you say, Wes?

88.

I was. I was gonna be in the thirties. Like 33?

Yeah.

No, like 30. Like 32. 33 around there.

Yeah. How said it? Exactly. He's 22 for 88. In his last 14 games from threes, he was the 79th best three point shooter this season at 37.9%. Last year, he was 113th at 35%. In the 2023 playoffs, he was 76th, 32.3%. There's this feeling that Jason Tatum is like this lights out, awesome three point shooter who can hit all these crazy step backs and there's no statistical evidence for it. And I'm tired of watching it.

There's no eye evidence either. I still feel that way.

I feel like when I watch him compared to. And I voted for Tatum for first team Omb, and I think I had. I can't remember if I had him fourth or fifth for MVP when I watched some of these other scores, like SGA, like Luca, like Jokic, how he can get to the spots that he wants, unless he's going against the Minnesota pit Bulls, like Brunson, like Donovan Mitchell Tonight, like Aunt Edwards. This whole playoffs, Tatum just seems a level below as a score. Like he's. He's not dropping 40 point games left and right. Almost feels like wise. Like, it feels like two years ago against Brooklyn against KD when he really had that breakout series. I felt better about him offensively that year than I do now. Now he's a better, better playmaker, I think he's a wiser basketball player. I think he's a better two way player. I think he's added to his game in all these different ways, but just fundamentally as like, shit, we're down seven. We need to score some fucking baskets. I don't really trust them to get the job done wise.

I don't think he's that kind of guy. I think the percentages that you're speaking to is Tatum. You know, he's doing all the Kobe fanfic stuff before the game. I think sometimes he gets it in his head that his role on his team is to be a run stopper, is to, you know, when the other team gets six, seven points in a row, like, let me get the ball, force the issue, get to the line. Let me get the ball, force the issue, get to a step back and shoot it.

I think he's without the right kind of flow. Right. It almost seems like. Like he's playing a video game or something versus, like, some of these other guys I watch, they have a sense of how the game is moving and flowing. Not that he doesn't. Cause he's shown it in the past sometimes, but this year, I think he's really struggled with it.

I just think the idea that everything that he does has to be off the dribble, and it can't be, you know, back cutting a guy at the right time or, you know, sprinting down court, pinning a guy underneath the basket, getting the rock and trying to score that way. I think for him, he's got in his head that everything he has to do needs to be off the dribble when it's quote unquote takeover time, where I just think that the talent is well distributed enough around the roster that he doesn't need to do all of this shot creation. Dribble, dribble, dribble, and have that be the way that he attacks. Right? To me, that's what I see as the limitation. He's just like, we've seen it. He's just never shown himself to be at the SGA or shoot at the Anthony Edwards level so far in this playoff. Like the Luca level, like the prime Kawhi level, the, you know, I would say even Prime Paul George, people forget Paul George once finished third in MVP voting one year. You know, like, he's just never shown that he's that. But I don't think he needs to be that on a team this stacked in order for the Celtics to also see.

That's where I disagree. I actually think they do need him to be that. As we get to the final, final round, they play this Minnesota team house. I really worry. I mean, that's. I talked about this in my last pot. I think Minnesota is the best defensive team I've seen in 20 years. They're perfectly built to play the Celtics team and we've already seen the matchup and they have guys to throw at, both Brown and Tatum. They have rim protection, and this Celtics team has a tendency of falling into bad shots anyway. And I'm trying not to be pessimistic about a team that won 64 games, but part of me just feels like I don't see this level up that they can do even today. Like, one of the things I loved about Tatum was they were really experimenting with him at the foul line and doing like the 2011 dirk kind of post up stuff. Even that wasn't really working tonight. So I guess my point is this. I think he has it in him, but if we're ever going to see it, it's got to be pretty soon because you're comparing him with some of these other guys we're watching.

Like Brunson, who's just been out of his mind. Yeah, just like, you know, 1984 Bernard as a six one point guard, and I don't know if Tatum has that in him. House. What do you think?

You know what's crazy is I totally agree, and this is what every single Celtics fan, deep in their heart, knows to be true. The difference between the Celtics and Denver, for instance, and, you know, any other sort of at that upper echelon is just that thing right where there's two minutes left. You need three baskets to win the basketball game. How are you going to get them? And Tatum, figuring into that is a problem. It's a challenge. It's not something that Celtics fans feel confident about. I think that Eme Odoka was going to open that up for him, and I think we're now in a holding pattern with him because of what happened. What email did that had him no longer associated with the Boston Celtics? I think it's had an impact on this last sort of level for Tatum to be the guy. I mean, you watch it and you live it and it drives you crazy because you're the Celtics fan. That you are. It drives me crazy watching it.

What, you're a celtic fan? Yeah.

At the end of games, where he stands with the ball, waits for the clock to run out, and then does a one legged fall away. It's horrendous.

We call it the Drew Hanlon drills offense. It's like Jason, just do ten dribbles between your legs and do a step back. Do, do 100 of those. Look, part of the problem with Tatum is he has done it in big situations. He has the Milwaukee game in 2022. He has the four threes against Philly in game six. Like the biggest possible stakes where it's like we're going home unless you play well. And he's come through. And that's why he gets so much benefit of the doubt. But the results just have not been here in the playoffs so far. He has not had a really good playoff game yet. He said every, he said, I think seven games so far, six of the seven, I don't even think he shot higher than 45%. He's getting the line better. He's rebuilt. His rebounding was really good in the, in the Miami series, and he's better as an all round player. But wise, I, there's going to be a point where somebody on this team, when it gets to nut crunch time, who are we going to? Who's getting the basket? And I would have said, I like the white Porzingis high screen the most.

I, Porzingis was wearing a green Celtics jacket tonight. I don't know whether he looked like he was from South Shore, North Shore, Charlestown, Southey, Worcester, Grafton. He, he looked like a hundred different massholes. That house that I ran into from 88 to 91. But we need him back because that's the superpower of this team they have. He's not healthy. Wise, they have no chance of beating this Minnesota team the way they're playing defense. I just don't think they're gonna be able to score.

Yeah, I think they'll get to the finals regardless. The Knicks, despite their continued winning, are dropping players like flies. That OG injury is serious. I'd be shocked if he's back for the playoffs. If you saw the way that guy limped off and couldn't even walk. Remember, Zion could actually, like, walk himself off, right? Og was cooked. So now Og's done, Randall's done, Mitch is done, Bogdanovich is done. Like, the knicks are not going to be able to.

Seriously, it's almost like their coach is playing everybody. Too many minutes.

Look, I'll say this ankle injury is one thing, the muscle injury. Most doctors and clinicians will say that that's an overuse injury.

Yeah. Playing three guys on your team, 40 minutes a game or more, playing Josh Hart. Josh Hart's at 46.8. I looked it up. It's the highest number per game in the history of the playoffs. It's the ABA NBA merger. Not one player has ever played eight playoff games and played more minutes a game than Josh Hart since 1976. Who.

Do you want to get those minutes instead of Josh Hart, though, to do that? It's not. It's not sustainable. You can't do it. It's why they're going to lose, I think probably to this Pacers team over the course of this thing.

Wow. Not if they get two more officiating crews like game one and two. Oh, boy. Man. I think this is like having the early two thousands NBA back. I wonder if Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson and urban Johnson, Sam Cassell were getting PTSD.

Here we go.

Wow.

The NBA offices made the call, huh?

Oh, my God. That was. I've never seen a travel call get reversed. I've been watching basketball my whole life. Has that ever happened? What about the barely.

It wasn't a double dribble, though. They got the call right. They reversed it, but they got it right.

The barely perceptible offensive charge screen, whatever the fuck that was, into game one that every team does over and over and over again. They're like, yeah, all right. Offensive foul. That could have been. We all like the Knicks. It's more fun than the Knicks are in the playoffs. I support it.

Me, too.

Every single big three Celtics possession in which KG was involved in the screen.

How about every single Anthony Davis screen this season? Where's Dick Bavetta? Is Dick Bavetta alive? Can he do game five if it's two two? Can they just put him in a wheelchair and wheel it back and forth?

I don't even think these crews that they've had have been fine.

Where's Jake O'Donnell? Can he do one of these games? I loved it. I. This is the league we all fell in love with once upon a time. Say it's a little WWE theater. You gotta do it.

Hey, there's no chance fans are loving this.

There's no chance that Mobley's having, like, a semi awakening? Maybe possible. And there's no chance that maybe Mitchell is like, maybe. Maybe I'm just going to go on a run here. And I don't know, I'm. I'm a little more scared of this cab series now than I think most Celtics fans. Cause I, all the Celtics fans I know are just mad at the Celtics, but I'm more in the sense of stru scares me. He's killed the Celts a bunch of times. Mobley tonight looked like the most active, skilled big man in the game, and Mitchell was the best guy in the court. So you have that as a recipe of just multiple guys, I'm afraid of, and they have the best guy in the. In the game. It's not. Not worrisome was.

It's definitely worrisome in the sense that watching the Cavs play tonight, particularly in that third quarter where they kind of blew this thing open, I was like, wow. This is like the actual vision of the Cavs that people had when they got excited about the Mitchell trade. One, Darius Garland not hesitating to pull up threes on roll.

I mean, look at that defense, too. They were hunting them, and he was fighting it off. I liked it.

Showed a lot of fight. But the pull up three game, like, if a guy on the ball, man or pick and roll is willing to take a bunch of those and can make them with some accuracy, that kills what the defense wants to do coverage wise, man, and to have two of those guys. Mitchell was doing it, too. And then now, you know, this plays where the defense is sort of selling out on the Mitchell and Mobley pick and rolling, and when he swings it to Garland, he could just quickly attack a scrambling, even, like, oh, okay, this looks like a real NBA offense in ways that, you know, they're dropping 83 points like it's the freaking Knicks in 1999. In the whole game, in the first round, I'm like, man, this offense is rudimentary and trash, but what they showed today, if they could keep this energy going. Yeah, I think. I think it'll be a little bit tougher. But again, Mobley, Garland, Mitchell, they have to play at their very best, which is basically at all star levels, all of them, in order to compete with.

What the cells got on.

And I. And I doubt that that'll happen.

Guys, house, they scored two. They had 200 point games. Against Orlando, they peaked at one oh six. And tonight against the Celtics, they scored 118. And it's frustrating to me because. And I don't know. I just don't understand, and I don't know if it's a coaching thing or if there's some sort of mental block with the Celtics, but defense is the key. To the Celtics, it's all about the defense. And then every time they have a bounce back game, which they'll probably bounce back in game three and play well back, we want to establish our defensive intensity coming out of the gate, and we.

We let up in game two, and.

We just realize that, you know, we got it. Once the defense gets our offense going and it's like, yeah, but it's like Groundhog Day. Like we. We've heard the same speech 20 times. Defense gotta get offense going. Yeah, we know. The defense has to get the offense going. Yeah. So why don't you know that heading into game two? Why was it after the game? This is. I. Listen, there's some coaches that shouldn't have been fired this year, but if. If Missoula can't get to the finals with the number of breaks that this team got, with Jimmy Butler not playing in round one, with Jared Allen getting hurt in round two, and we haven't seen him yet, and he was a borderline all star. And then game three or round three, it's either the depleted knicks that are just dropping. There's. They're losing guy every game, or the freaking pacers, and they can't make the finals. This is one of the biggest chokes in Boston history. It is.

Do you still have any of your mobile stock?

You still.

Hold on.

I have all of it. Zachs, Zach Lowe. And I text about it at least once a month. Yeah, we have the most. We're the biggest shareholders.

I was wondering, as I was watching that game, and then you. You won this very show today, wondered aloud for our consumption and enjoyment, if, like, what if somebody went to Mobley but after game one, or, like, mother effer, are you going to let Al Horford and Luke Cornett and Sam Houser shut you down? Is that. Is that like. They went up and actually, you know, got. Got into this. This dude, and he's like, you know what? God damn it. I'm Evan F. And Mobley. I've got ambitions and aspirations. I'm going to. This is my stage. This is my time. I mean, they did out physical, the Celtics. And it made me think of how vulnerable the Celtics are without Porzingis, no question. That's right. 44 to 31. 44 to 31 rebounds and 60 to 44 points in the paint.

That's. That's.

That's, you know, putting some ass into it.

Well, the thing people forget about Mobile, he's only 15 years old. Nobody talks about that. No, he's actually, he's 22, but he's still kidding. I still have all my stock.

Look, Celtics fans, I don't think you need to panic after this game to loss. It's. It's a long series. It's a team that the Celtics clearly understand is an inferior opponent. They did the same thing the last round. They came back and smoked the heat.

The rest of the way.

They took it really seriously.

That's what the playoffs is all about. Let's just. Let's just pull out enough to win, build Milton Burlap. They've only gotten their asses kicked four times this year, just for the record, and I'll give you the games the Clippers came in, beat the shit out of them during the apex of the Clippers era. That's the one. When they show the highlight tape for people trying to convince them to get season tickets, it's like, remember in January, we killed the Celtics. The Bucks beat their asses by 33, and that was a five games and seven nights. They had no legs. It happened. The Magic kicked their asses, I think, in December, by 17. And then the Cavs tonight. And each time the Celtics suck from the three point line. Ten for 49 for 35, seven for 29. Eight for 35. And the problem for them, and this can be a problem as we get to the later rounds, is they're not making threes and they fall behind. It just turns into this ISO ball fucking disaster. And you can see it, and it's just like, all right, you go and I'll stand and I'll watch you.

No, no, I'll take it. You stand, and now you watch me. And I just can't believe this team won 64 games. I've never been more frustrated by a good team my entire fucking life. Now, we shouldn't have a podcast. God damn it.

Really?

Like, knicks are dropping every hour. Another nick gets hurt. They can't. They just can't make it three more weeks. We're going to take a break, and we're going to come back and play a game called I hate to tell you. All right, before we get to. I hate to tell you that we prepared for him. Excited to play. We did have a Frank Vogel firing today. Apparently, it was his fault that Bradley Beal fouled out of game four, had six turnovers, and played one of the three or four worst games of this decade. I went and I went through all the great players and tried to answer the question, who's had the most coaches since the 2014 playoffs? So exactly ten years from right now. So count if your coach is in the 2010 playoffs. Our leader is Kevin Duran at eight. And that's not counting the 9th coach that they're about to hire coming in second, Kyrie Irving. Also eight. Now, he was traded a couple of times, but eight coaches for him, a surprise third place guy was Devin Booker, was seven. And we're about to have number eight.

That's not Devin Booker. Is managed managerial incompetence. They just kept screwing that thing up.

Okay, I'm, listen, I'm. I'm just the stats guy right now.

I don't think Devin Booker is a.

Coach killer, but cook, well, he's about to be eight. He's about to be on number eight. James Harden and Russell Westbrook both tied for seven. At seven for tied for fourth place. And then LeBron is at six, plus the new coach, so he'll be at seven. Giannis and Butler, both five. Dame ad Kawhi, four. Embiid, three. Curry two. Tatum two. Yokage one. He said one coach. Biggest surprise for you on that list was Booker.

Yeah, booker for sure. Just cause, you know, it's not like he's been this powerful entity in the NBA for his whole career, right? Like he came in as like the 14th or 13th pick or whatever it was and then outperformed expectation for a while. Guys like Bill Simmons was saying he was a good stats bad team guy, right?

He was. I don't apologize.

He was. But then he became an obvious all star all in kind of guy. And so great. I don't be good, but I'm surprised.

We called him a good stats good good team guy. Trae Young. What's Trey Young now? Cause he was a good stats bad team guy then made the playoffs, so he was a good stats good team guy. Now he's a good stats mediocre team guy.

I think he's a. Needs some humility in the new scenery guy, for sure.

Brooklyn Nets, he changed agents this week. CAA. There was room at clutch for one between him and Murray House. What was your biggest surprise in that list?

It was definitely Devin Booker. I didn't recall. It's a combination for Devin Booker of how long he's been on the league and I probably have forgotten how long he's been in the league. But also like that institutional, that kind of rotate rotating coach chair in Phoenix because he's only been with one team, right? Devin Booker, only one team. That's a lot of coaches for a guy who's only been in the league for, you know.

Remember you had that Igor guy that one time? Yeah, coach Igor. That guy was in there.

They tried them all.

Well, Katie's going to be on coach number nine. As you know, I'm accused in some circles of being a KD supporter, even a KD Stan. This Vogel thinks a tough one to defend. It just is. Cause Vogel's a good coach and I just don't know how you go from winning a title to being the problem in two different cities in the span of four years. Skip Bayless had an incredible tweet that someone sent me where he talked about. Frank Vogel won a title in the bubble, and then since then, he's been fired twice. And if that's not all the proof you need that the bubble was a fake title, that's it. I was like, I really admire the craftsmanship for that crazy tweet.

His dedication is impeccable.

Really just in the lab pumping that one out. But, yeah, my guy KD house. I don't know, man. It's a lot of coaches.

The question is with that situation, nobody really had Frank Vogel as landing in Phoenix, right? There was the undercurrent with the new owner was that there was another guy. There was an in house guy, right?

Kevin Young. And then all of a sudden, Doc was involved. And poor doc, who could have had his choice of, like, Phoenix or the Lakers, I assume one of these, and then went to Milwaukee and everybody got hurt. And I was stuck in Milwaukee. But it sounds like Phoenix. Phoenix did the thing where they fired Vogel and then, like three minutes later, it's like, word is they're very interested in coach Bud. And so now, you know, he's getting the job. He's putting this. He's from Arizona. So wise. Coach Bud is now a good coach again.

I don't think he was ever a bad coach.

I think the Buck fans ran him out of town. Bucks Reddit was just annihilating him.

The situation in Milwaukee kind of ran its course. And the Buds value was realized when the Bucks were playing the most undisciplined offense in the NBA, despite having some success. Cause you could do that against some of the mediocre NBA defenses when you have that much talent. But they were so undisciplined in, like, their spacing principles and, like, stuff like who would even bring the ball up and who guys breaking off of plays. Like, they were just undisciplined. It was obvious the stuff that they hated Bud for, which was being a stickler, turns out it actually worked. And the Suns had the worst fourth quarter offense in the NBA this year, which is insane when you consider their offensive talent. So if they could get a task manager to have them just like, being in the right spots and running good stuff, I think that's like found money. That's like an easy way to just get way better than what they did last year. So I'm not completely against the hiring. I'm just skeptical that a culture a team unity, a togetherness can be crafted from bringing Bud in with this particular group. Just look at the Timberwolves and how they've all galvanized around Ant and his personality.

Sorry.

Love kD. One of the biggest bags, best bags, most skilled bags in the history of offense. He's never proven himself to be that kind of person. I don't know that Devin Booker has it in him to be that either. Who's going to be the person that makes the Suns into a team, a unit, a connected group?

Youssef Nurkic know that you could bring budded Bradley Beal. I think Bud's a really good coach. I don't think he's one of the top three coaches, but he's a really good coach. And I don't know if it's going to matter when you have a team that's built around three guys, one of whom is 36, one of whom is Bradley Beal. I don't. And the other thing is, and we talked about this a couple pods ago, House. But like Minnesota, OKC, Denver, even the Celtics, like, there's just young, deep, athletic, awesome teams. And that just putting together that goofy big three model for one of the big three is Bradley Beal, who you can't trade because he has no fucking trade clause that you didn't even ask him to drop when you didn't trade. And then Durant, who was in the.

2007 draft, you don't think the Bartlestein should have been negotiating against each other.

Right in the execution part of that trade? It didn't work out. Yeah, for Bradley Beale. But. But I just don't like. There's no way to improve that team. So congrats. Your offense is going to look a little better, but you're still not beating anybody. House, do you buy anything into Minnesota was so awesome. Maybe Phoenix feels better about themselves now. No, it wasn't that bad.

It's nonsense talk. No, it was that bad. We watched it. It was bad. I'm bummed because I wanted coach Bud to come here to Washington and, you.

Know, maybe get JJ Reddick.

Doesn't seem like a good match. I don't know. I want somebody that can come do some nurturing. I don't want a guy that, you know, no offense to JJ, obviously, but this is not a learn on the fly why not kind of job. We need. We need. We need an adult. It's time for an adult associated with the Washington basketball team. We finally have it on the football side. I'd like one trustworthy adult. We have it now in the decision makers, you know, the GM office here in Washington. But we need a good coach wise.

I did a YouTube short a week ago about how I thought LeBron should become the player coach of the Lakers because he's clearly just never going to be happy with a coach. And I also don't know why anyone would want to be the coach of that team at this point when it's the ultimate no win job. And then there was some player coach momentum this week in other circles. And I think it's illegal with team rules, but I was thinking, like, couldn't, could they make Maverick Carter the coach? So basically LeBron's the player coach. Mavericks pretending to be the head coach, but really LeBron's running it and he gets to hang out with his buddy. And then his buddy would have job security. Cause LeBron takes care of his boys.

The one problem with the LeBron as player coach is that there leaves no room for somebody to throw the blame or throw under the bus.

Well, he could blame himself as the coach. It would be. It could be like, it could be like the end of primal fear when Ed Norton's blame in the other version.

Ed Norton, that's, that's, that's my only issue with that one, is that LeBron would have, like, it just. It'd be too easy to point to LeBron and his ambition and all of that power hungry and all of that stuff if it didn't work out.

So.

And we know LeBron's not in the business of taking the blame or taking the fall for things that don't go right. So that's why I personally can't see it.

Okay. As you don't see it either, I wish they would change the rules. I mean, Bill Russell won two titles as a player coach. It's the thing that succeeded. When I was growing up, Dave Collins was a player coach for us for like two, three months. It was cool. He would come out of the game, towel off. He'd have a clipboard. It was neat. One of those things. Maybe Corey Kisper could be the Wizards head coach.

I don't, I don't, I don't get this trolling.

Kyle Kuz. I don't get. So your anti player coach. I don't understand.

I mean, this is, this is a whole bit with, with, with LeBron. LeBron didn't drive Darwin ham out. They have a. You, you properly.

No. Palinka.

That's right.

Yeah. Now that there's. I think Palinka is the one. Cause you're the GM, you want to keep your job if things aren't going well. You spend the most time with the owner. You spend more time with the owner than anybody else. You're like, man, what the fuck was that coaching thing today? These adjustments in the fourth quarter, you're just, like, playing in the seats with.

Genie yelled at me when I said, darvin Ham did a pretty decent job on the Lakers. And basically, they said his cardinal sin was that he went away from the Western Conference championship lineup. That was the Cardinal sin that rui.

In the playoffs. He sucked. Watch the games.

He was terrible, terrible breaking news.

He sucks. He was like, oh, we gotta get back to the western finals thing. It's like. You mean when he got hot for, like, three games?

Yeah, that's. That's what people said was Darvin Ham's unforgivable sin. He. He put all. He took Austin as a six man because Austin wasn't defending to start the year, and he was trying to establish a defensive identity. And, you know, Dlo and, like, you know, like, come on, man. It's not like these guys were world beaters, but, yeah, allegedly, this is like, you know, dlo coming off the bench is. You just can't do it, can't accept it.

Ridiculous. All right, let's play the game that I mentioned. It's called. I hate to tell you, we're going to go around the. Around the circle. This would be the last thing we do wise. You start us off, it's got to be something NBA related, with a setup, and then you saying, I hate to tell you, but we're basically breaking bad news to different people in NBA circles.

So, a couple days ago, a bunch of notable public people, people from the music scene, actors and actresses, a couple of athletes showed up to this thing called the Met Gala. And people show up, basically to give their public Persona and image a different level of oomph and pizzazz. But Ben Simmons, I gotta tell you, showing up to the Met Gala in that monkey suit, man, that did nothing but drag your reputation down into the mud even further. It's just like, look, you're not doing anything technically wrong by going to the Met Gala and looking like a fool. But, like, when you don't play, and it's for all these lame excuses, and when you do play, you're playing horrible, and you're extremely overpaid, and you make time and effort to show up to the damn Met Gala looking like an idiot. Like this does not help your image. Like, this does not help your public standing. Like this makes you look worse, I gotta tell you. Ben Simmons.

I have a zag on Ben Simmons. No relation to my son. He's made $204 million after next year. I think Ben Simmons was a big winner. He played a couple good years. He never got better at any NBA skill. He forced to trade and doesn't have to play anymore. He basically doesn't have to work. He's going to retire with, like, 100 plus million in the bank, and he gets to go to the Met gala and. And just doesn't seem embarrassed by any of it. I really respect his lack of embarrassment. House.

This is precisely the observation I want to make. I'm worried that this is one of the last Ben Simmons sightings that we're going to have because he doesn't play basketball, and he's only noteworthy for being a basketball player. So he has to find something to keep him in the public eye for us to enjoy the full Simmons experience. But I don't think he has that skill. There's no pivot. And I'm afraid he's just going to fade away. And, you know, the move really, for him is to go back to Australia and try to do something for that national team, but he's not doing that. Doesn't seem like it's in the cards because he doesn't play basketball.

Was that once upon a time when it seemed like Ben Simmons was going to be a second team, all NBA guy that year? Was that 2019? 2020? And I remember thinking, like, this might suck for my son. He has the same name as Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons. Gonna be a really famous basketball player. No longer have those concerns. House. This is. This is my first, I gotta tell you, uh, Jimmy Butler. So Pat Riley did his annual 40 minutes press conference, which, by the way, I think should be a pay per view. I think it should be like, 29, 95. Like, I would definitely pay to watch it. I'm always on the edge of my seat at the end of the year when Pat Riley gives. I'll never forget the ten years ago when he did the winning is hard. When he was doing the LeBron pep talk to try to convince LeBron to stay, and he was like, sub tweet press conferencing him for 40 minutes. Then LeBron left, like, three days later. Didn't work. I love his speeches. He killed Jimmy Butler in this thing. And he. He did it perfectly. He talked about how Jimmy.

He's great. He's. He had a really good season, but you shouldn't be talking shit from the bench. And he's got to play more. And I'm. We're not going to talk about an extension with him unless it's tied to him playing more basketball. Really? I always call it hit him with the newspaper. Like when you're mad at your dog and just hit the dog with the newspaper. Just hit him with the newspaper. So then Jimmy, a couple days later, was like, yeah, I didn't take it personally. I want to retire in Miami. This is the last NBA team I'm going to play for. The only other team I'd play for is some team in Brazil I'd never heard of. Jimmy, I hate to tell you, they will absolutely trade your ass at some point over the next six months. If you don't start playing basketball games and showing up every day, they will trade your ass. You have two years left, 48 million, 52 million, and they will trade you. Pat Riley would trade anyone on his team, in his family. That guy will do it. He's 79 years old. You think he's gonna be like, oh, I'll wait till I'm 81 to decide if this Jimmy Butler thing where it's like, he will fucking trade you.

I wouldn't be surprised if you traded him this summer. Jimmy, don't get too comfortable. That's mine. Any. Any thoughts before we move to housewives on Jimmy? I think.

I think it wouldn't be shocking if Jimmy Butler's played his last game in Miami. Honestly, that wouldn't surprise me that as well. One bit. One bit. I know Pat Riley was like, no, we're not trading them just because we don't. We don't have to give him an extension.

We're not going to be forced into.

A trade, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think they might do it voluntarily. Not that Jimmy Butler was, like, demanding a trade and forcing his way out of town. I think it's. I think it's a strong possibility, especially when you're speaking like that in public. I don't care that Riley's old and he's the godfather, yada, yada, yada. Like, you don't come after your guys like that in public, man. Like, I like to. Yeah, there was some sign of a strained relationship.

Yeah. Also, it's a sign of when somebody's just old, like my dad or house's dad, where just, like, just never know what they're going to say. They might just let it fly. They have some comments and some thoughts. I think the Miami Jimmy Butler situation, to me, is very similar to just an incredible long blackjack run that they tried to change dealers on you. It didn't work. Then they brought their cooler dealer in, that still didn't fucking work. The pit boss walked over, he stared the table down, try to change the karma. He mentioned how many chips you're up, still didn't work. And you have this big pile of chips and now it's 330 in the morning and you're drunk and the dealer has to talk to you for an hour and take your chips and go home. That might be what this is with Jimmy Butler. Maybe it's gonna be mid thirties now. House, you have one Jimmy Butler question.

I do. I wanna know what you guys think is the best place for him to land. Because I think I'm definitely on the same page as you guys in terms of him change the scenery. I know Philly has all that, that cap space. Is there. Is there a deal there?

I don't know what Philly has to give back. And it would have to be. I keep eyeing the Paul George piece of all this, wondering if that could be a Miami basically doing that weird Miami voodoo they do where they started out with Jimmy Butler and somehow end up with Paul George on a new contract. And you're like, wait, how'd they do that? Whether it's like a sign, a double trade, where they trade butler to Paul George and he moves into the butler spot, or they trade Butler to Philly to create this big trade exception, and then they trade with it. Like something like that. I was thinking the only other one is if there's a LeBron possibility, if he decides he doesn't want to stay in the Lakers. And then the only other one I was thinking was Golden State just for the fucking sport of it.

Hit pause on the Lakers is the Lake. What the Lakers give back with those picks? Is that attractive enough to Miami?

Or it's just LeBron for Butler?

I can't see LeBron playing for Pat Riley again.

Me neither. I'm just.

Animosity.

Yeah, it seems like there's animosity side. Yeah.

Cause obviously LeBron made up with Dan Gilbert. He just doesn't care. If he really wants to change something up, he'll do that. But Pat Riley is just like, he was so freaking wounded by the fact that he went to Vegas and it was a fake pitch and blah, blah, blah, and they wasted his time and smiling faces, hidden agendas, all of the crap that he said about Bron. I find it hard to believe, but I think Jimmy works on any team with actual postseason aspirations. Right? I've been hearing Kevin Durant to OKC for the homecoming. I mean, why Jimmy over there? I think. I think Jimmy would be a great OKC edition, right?

I just want to make sure Sarut is still awake. Orlando. Franz. Franz. And something else maybe Miami could fix. France. House. What's your next. I got. What's your. I gotta tell you.

Well, here's the thing. I am.

Oh, I hate to tell you. I can't even remember the name of my own gimmick.

I gotta tell you.

I hate to tell you, I am an avid consumer of the, of the B's podcast. I very much enjoyed the recent segment that you and Mister Rosillo had where you took three teams, and we're trying to map out what does the future look like for these teams. You did the suns, you did the heat, and you did the Lakers. And I wondered to myself, well, there's. There's one team that you guys left out. And I I I wasn't sure sure why, but I'm looking at Milwaukee, and I'm looking at my guy, Giannis. And I say Giannis, my freak. My freak. I have to tell you, this version of Dame Leopard, Dame Lillard, that you just got at age 33, I hate to tell you this. It ain't getting any better at his age, 34 year, and that dude's making $50 million next year.

I hate three.

I hate to tell you. Freak.

So what should they do?

You tell me. What should they do? I don't know. They're fucked. Milwaukee's fucked.

Dame thing's tough because, wise, what do you think is compared to what his trade value was a year ago? Is it 80%, 75%, 60%?

The thing is, last year, he was coming off the best season of his career, right?

Yeah. Cause he played 50 games, and none of them meant anything. Oh, sure.

Okay. Sure.

That's one way of putting it. Or, like, you know, he moved to Milwaukee. He's gone through a lot of things in his personal life which he's put out in the public with, like, this divorce and all of this stuff. Like, he's had a pretty tough goal of it, like, trying to adjust and all of that. I think if he can be between what he was his last year in, in Portland and what he did this year in Milwaukee, I think that's still pretty damn good, right? I just think he just had, like, just a really tough, bad season, and I believe he's capable of playing better now. Do I think he's able to get to the highest of highs of what Dame Lillard has provided in his career? No, but I think he could be much better with, you know what? If they have an actual training camp, they have an actual mode of attack for what the kind of team that they, they want to be. I think Dame can be the dame. Part of this can be better. I think the supporting situation, like actually be going into the offseason with a plan to get supporting players that can buttress the rest of it is, to me, the most important.

A lot of moves on that front, though. I would be so scared watching, like if we get Minnesota, OKC as a western finals, watching the athleticism in that series, and if I'm Giannis, shout out to the NASA's, by the way, it sounds like he got hurt. Like that guy torn Achilles.

It sucks.

That was, that was the story I saw today. But, but if you're Giannis and you're watching OKC Minnesota and watching those guys flying around and then thinking about your old ass team with Jay Crowder, that's pretty rough. Do you have one more? I hate to tell you, Wes. Yeah.

So in game two at the garden, Reggie Miller was in the building, and the Knicks fans started screaming, fuck you, Reggie. Towards the end of the game, when the game was in hand, I loved it. He doesn't work for the pacers. He doesn't. He was just in the building, and I gotta tell you, I was into it. We need more teams doing this. If there is a former guy that used to kill you on, you know, he might be in the front office of the team you're playing against, or he might be on the broadcast or he might be, you know, he might be an agent now or player rep or whatever. If that dude is in the building, the fans should be chanting that guy's name and cursing him out. Like the Reggie grudge, 30 years on. It just. Oh, it warmed my heart, man. It was perfection.

Loved. You know, you know what's funny? I had a bunch of friends at that game, and all them, apparently the fans were just chanting at different points. Fuck. Some like, fuck Trey Young was said a bunch of times. Apparently that was a chance when people were leaving the game. Fuck Trey. Hug started. Trey Young wasn't even involved in this game. Yeah. So I think that. I think the Knicks are just so happy to have, you know, to be in the mix. I had my friend Brian Koppelman I actually talked to today. Cause he called me and he said it was the happiest Knicks night of his entire life. That's amazing that all the guys there. The Willis moment from Brunson where they think, oh, shit, this just evaporated in thin air. The guy's gone. Then he comes back, OG gets hurt. They. They still somehow win. They're up to nothing. Um, and they just love this team. I mean, this team. This is such a memorable Knicks team, and it ties in. And what we talked about before with the Celtics, like, here's this Knicks team flying around, Josh Hart playing 48 minutes. They're fighting for, like every fucking.

They're coming back from ten. You know, they're playing like their life depends on. And then you watch the Celtics team that couldn't be bothered to defend a high screen. Wise is cats, and.

She'S trying to get in on the action. She heard this is one of the most popular podcasts in the world, that she wanted to get some facetime.

Bill, I'm with you, though. Wise. I love when the playoffs get to the point where just players are in. Fuck you, chance. I have a quick one. Jokic wins the MVP, and they interview him on the TNT show, which is always a fun moment. And Shaq decides to start his question with yogic. I just got to tell you that I didn't. I voted for SGA to win MVP. I just wanted you to hear that from me. And it was just like, not even really a question. Yokoj is on like, a satellite and I. TNT. I hate to tell you, if Shaq comes up with that idea in the pre show meeting, it's okay to talk him out of it and veer him in different direction. Maybe near the end of the interview he could mention. But I don't think people realize how producers can fuck up tv shows like this. Cause then it looks like Shaq's an asshole, right? It's like, man, why did Shaq do that? What a dirt. This is the whole point. This is. The talent always goes at these big networks, and the producers always stay. And the producers are the ones who could talk the talent out of doing something like that, and they never do.

And then the talent looks like schmucks, and then eventually they get replaced. But I just. I didn't like that at all. That should be a happy moment. The guy win the MVP house. What do you got?

Well, that's. That's a bummer because I feel like we're ending on a sad note. I am channeling my inner John Oren from the puck, our boy Johnny O. And I have a little message for David Zaslav. Hey, David, you had the tiniest, the tiniest pimp hand ever with an exclusive negotiating period to try and do a deal with the NBA and you fucked this up so royally, I hate to tell you. Take a look at the stock price right now, Dave, big Zaz, take a look at the stock price because when you wake up 30 days from now and don't have the NBA as part of any of you, those, the WD package, that stock price is going to be halved and we're in the single digit dollars. Big brother, hate to tell you, you're taking one right up the poop chute and it's a giant l, my brother, hate to tell you. Now here's the sad thing. That means almost certainly that inside the NBA, this is it.

This is the end. No way. It's fine.

So who's going to do it?

It's fine. Like somebody, NBC, they will take that show, it's going to go to another network and it will be the same. And if for some reason Zaslav and the rest of Warner, they block it, they will be considered like the biggest grinches of like that might lead to our first civil war in the last 150 years. If, if they inside the NBA crew is just held hostage on a channel that doesn't have basketball anymore, we might, we might actually see actual fighting between states.

I'm concerned wise, do inside NASCAR or something.

You know, just maybe put them on hockey. Just put them on different things.

That'll be the pivot. They'll go to the other sports that they have. But yeah, I find it hard to believe that, you know, if NBC or somebody gets the rights that they'll break that thing up completely. Like it's obviously the best studio show the sport has ever known. So, you know, get that thing together. But Zazzle, I think it'll be okay, man. They got these things called golden parachutes, allegedly, from what I hear. I think you'll be completely fine for generations of Zazz laws to be spending that Warner money, I promise you.

Well, House, do you, would, do you think the NBA is worth twice as much as they paid for the last deal to get less games and to get the conference finals every other year instead of the year? So basically getting a worse deal that you had before for double the price, you would just do it regardless.

It's worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. That's the answer. And NBC stepped right the fuck up and said, hey, guess what? We're willing to pay for the b package. Yeah, we don't care what, you know, it's every other this and we don't get, you know, we want to be in the business of the NBA. We want to be a partner of the NBA. And so, you know, that that dude Zaz had had his opportunity. They had their exclusive negotiating period, and it didn't go anywhere. He clearly misjudged what exactly was happening in the media space. Not great from the head of a newly formed, you know, megalopolis media entity with all of these properties. Misread one of the most crucial brand opportunities. Doesn't seem like good leadership, but take that $50 million, homie. I'm sure it will help you see well at night inside your freddy soft sheets wise.

I'm excited. If NBC Universal and I think they already got it. That's why when we did the Puck podcast last week, so am I. I think. I think a seven man pregame shows them play. Think about what they've done with NFL. I think. I don't know who the NBA version of Jack Collinsworth is who's related to somebody that might be able to get in there. But I'm excited for the nepotism. Maybe this is a landing spot for Brianna James. We'll see.

I mean, as long as they invent eyes the gate, eventize the games, man. Make it feel like a big deal. Do a good job for producing the product. I don't know that the NBA's partners since NBC lost the deal have always done a great job of making these games feel big and important.

Right.

And that kind of thing. And so as long as they do a better job at that than has been previously shown, you know, I'm all for it, man. Like, I don't know how they're going to, like, yeah, the NFL situation where it's Tony Gonzalez and like, 20 different of the cats, like, I'm not sure about. I don't watch those shows, me personally. Like, that's when I go get a snack. I mute the television, maybe.

Good.

No, cut something else on. But I, you know, I want to believe that these guys can do a good job with the product, man.

But you watch Ringer wise guys on Fanduel tv, right? Of course.

Every single time, every f lock in Raheem.

All right, guys, thanks for staying up. Any last second predictions before we go or we think it's okay? See, Minnesota, the Nuggets will be heard.

From before this series is over. Like, the Wolves have the look. They're very hungry. They're up against a team who, you know, they won a championship last year. So that, like, thirstiness is not to the level, obviously, that it was. Right. Like, I don't want to say it's complacency, but, like, it's different when you're defending a championship. Everybody knows how hard it is to repeat. Like, you really gotta dig in. But, like guys, it's the Minnesota Timberwolves. They're anchored by Carl Anthony Towns in many ways. Like, this isn't some, like, group of guys who you can trust to just be the most insanely dedicated executioners known to man. And Denver, like, even with a limited Jamal Murray, Nikola Jokic is still the guy that want MVP. The third three MVP's, I think he's going to be more assertive. Try to drop 40. The Nuggets are going to be heard from man.

You agree with that, House? Because I do not.

I don't either, but I love it and I'm kind of rooted for it because that means more basketball and adds more drama.

We need it.

Yeah, I support it. I just don't see it.

I mean, the problem is game three is in Minnesota.

Yeah.

That crowd's gonna be fucking bombing. Oh.

Nobody's ever been able to win in Minnesota before.

So much history. They had that. A Rod and Mark Lorre and Glenn Taylor all sitting next to each other.

The group hugs, holding hands. I think.

I rarely say stuff like this, but I really think that series is a rap. I think Jamal's hurt. Reggie Jackson got hurt in that last game. They. Minnesota just has solved them from an athleticism standpoint. And I don't really know what the answer is for Denver, other than Michael Porter going like ten for twelve from three or some crazy, you know, be.

Nice if Michael Porter did anything besides just take open jump shots, right?

Well, they don't have that kind of heat check, dude. Off the bench. Like, I don't see a lot of options. Even if you gave Yoko like, 30, 513 and twelve tomorrow night, I still don't think they win. It's all up this version of Murray. Yeah.

Jamal has got to see the same knee doctor as Luca. You better maybe to Mexico. And Luca, if he and Luca, you know, quiet quietly. We better do the plane tracker, see.

If there's the heart of a champion.

Folks love it.

House, did you have any cut massage jokes for Bob Kraft or. No. Would you have made a massage joke?

Oh, immediately. The very first thing I would have done, except for I would have been way worse than just like, would you like a massage? I would have been over. They would have had to kick me out of that joint. He's sitting right there and it's. It's a it's a roast. Like, I mean, that's the thing.

You can't go to a roast, sit that close to the stage and not expect somebody's not going to make a.

Massage, be a freaking billionaire. Yeah, like, you know, being freaking oligarch and think like, oh, these people can't make fun of me. Are you nuts?

Nobody even did the Bob, I'm sorry you and Belichick didn't have a happy ending. Like, just anything. Like, just like there are so many stealth ways that could have gone. Too bad. All right, wise house, great to see you can, you can hear wise on the ringer NBA show. You can hear house on Ringer gambling show. Plus, fairway rolling got us open. Not that far away all of a sudden.

PJ championship is next week.

PGA championships next week.

Roy McElroy, the 10th anniversary of his last major win. Putting a little bit down on Roy McElroy.

The PGA Championship, the survivor series of the four golf majors. Like in wrestling, Survivor Series is like, oh yeah, it's one of the majors. Is it? I don't know.

Yeah, it's not like SummerSlam with a royal rumble and certainly not WrestleMania.

It just counts. All right, good to see you guys. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton and Steve Ceruti, and we will see you over the weekend. Must be 21 plus 18 plus DC and present in select states. FanDuel offering online sports wagering Kansas under agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC. Gamble problem call 1800 Gambler or visit fanduel.com rg in Colorado, DC, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and Vermont call 100 next step or text next step to 533 four two in Arizona 8887-8977 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconneticut 809 with it in Indiana 805 224700 or visit ksgamblinghealth.com in Kansas 87770 stop in Louisiana, md gamblinghelp.org in Maryland, 800 gambler.net in West Virginia 805 224700. In Wyoming, hope is here. Visit GamblingHelp line ma.org or call 803 two seven 500:50 for 24/7 supported Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.