Okay. Emergency episode update. Whatever the case, August 29, Thursday. We're taping this at about 115. Yesterday, the 28th, a little more than 24 hours ago, Matthew Farwell was arrested for the murder of Sandra Birchmore. So the last season two episode you listen to, we're wrapping up called a noble failure, I guess, is maybe a noble success. I don't know. But I. What we speculate or not speculated, thought that Matthew Falwell killed Sandra Birch more, at least Dave, calling him a producer. My producer then wasn't my producer for. Was my producer. Again, they agree with us. The feds agree with us, essentially.

Right. So we heard yesterday that you were a prime piece of evidence that they obtained by listening to the. They got a lot of information from the podcast, which is.

Yeah. So where was that? I didn't. Was that in the.

No, no. I just heard from people when. When I was at the courthouse.

Yeah.

Friends and family reached out and said that they had talked to the feds. And. Yeah, a lot of it came up.

Yeah. It seemed like it got things. Look, I mean, like I said on my other show, my Kirk Minahan show on Barstool in other places, that the Karen Reid trial, of course, put a huge spotlight on this, you know, but, you know, I'm not saying maybe this happens, doesn't happen without that, but they did definitely put a spotlight on this stuff, particularly on the local area police. So that was a huge part of it. But, yeah, I mean, I thought we did really good work the last. So if you're just. We didn't update with Turtle boy, um, about Karen, uh, and, uh, Sandra, if you didn't listen to that, you only listen to the case. We definitely left you in a spot of. We were frustrated. We banged our heads against wall. We worked really hard on it, and nobody would talk to us, essentially. You know, nobody in Sandra's family, very few friends, some. And it was different than my first season where, you know, people were just flying into. Now, by the way, in the last 24 hours, everyone's talking to me. I'm getting a million messages. But. But I'm really, really happy for the Birchmore family, for her friends, you know, and for Sandra, you know, that this.

This happened because, you know, Matthew Farwell, in my opinion, definitely did this. And now, amazingly, Dave faces the possibility of death.

Right.

Which I don't think is going to happen. I don't. That's me speculating. I don't know that. But. Because it's a federal case, right. The death penalty is on the table, not a match it's. It's, you know, similar to the Czar Naev case. Yep.

Well, it feels like it's kind of one of those charges or the. The fear of the death penalty.

Yeah.

Puts a little fear in some of the investigators mind. Like, that's what it kind of felt like to me. There's a lot of players involved, and there's a lot of people who made a lot of mistakes with this case.

For sure as we went over.

And for him to have such a harsh potential penalty, maybe get some of those people to start opening up a little bit more than maybe they were.

Yeah, I think you're right. So let's. I'm not going to recap what we know, because I assume people listening is probably, if not, go back and listen or go, look, we did a lot of work. I'm worse than what we didn't know, because there were things that kind of. We wondered. I think the first thing that we were really wondering the whole time was we knew there was a million messages between Sandra and Farwell. I think it's now over 32,000. They have, and some of them are unbelievably graphic. I mean, you know, you can find them on social media. I mean, and Farwell obviously groomed Sandra from a very young age, had sex with her when she was underage. But some of these texts back and forth are unbelievable. He's saying to her, like, you know, he wants her potential 1312 years old. At one point, he said he wants her to pretend that Matthew is her older brother when he goes, I mean, just so stuff, controlling stuff, which, again, doesn't mean they killed her, of course, but just stuff like that. And then the back and forth time and time again, especially once you.

To coerce him or whatever she wanted him to inseminate her. Right? Have the kid with her and then sort of the back and forth on that. And it's just unbelievable. You could see, like we speculated the walls were closing in on this guy, and he did what he thought he had to do, which, of course, is a heinous, disgusting act. But there's no question the motive that we thought was a correct motive.

Yeah. And we knew from speaking to a ton of her friends how.

Well, to be fair, not a ton. Like we didn't.

We spoke to a lot of her friends off the record, unfortunately.

Right. Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Gotcha. Yeah, you're right about that.

But they made it very clear that she was in fear of him. And his reaction once she told him she got pregnant and only that Dave.

Sorry. Not only that, she was pregnant and she wanted him to be in her life.

Correct.

Keep the last name. The birth certificate was very big. We've talked. We talked about in the series, very big to her. And this was confirmed by these texts back and forth where she was insistent, I want this. I want this. We talked, I think, at some point about some sort of daycare.

Yep. She actually put out a number.

Yeah, a couple of $1,000, stuff like that. And his. Look, this is a guy who was making a decent living, but not that kind of living. So he. And of course, as we know, his wife was pregnant. She had. He went in from the murder scene to the. As we said, from the murder scene to the hospital.

Right.

I mean, that happened. He killed Sandra. We were told by people, look, I was told by John Fanning that flat out that this murder did not happen. You know, I talked to Fanning a couple of times. Fanning told me, and this was not brought, is not recorded. He said this was not a murder. This was flat out not a murder. So, you know, that. That this woman killed herself in a way that still I never really understood. We tried to figure it out, but Farwell, you know, manipulated the scene, made it happy. We learned these text messages back and forth that Sandra was telling people we knew that Sandra told people that she was afraid for her life. One of the things we didn't know was, if I'm right, Dave that far, was very insistent at the end for a key right to the apartment and.

That he was using. He was in the text message. If you go back and read them, he appears very upset at the news of the pregnancy, right?

Very upset. And then all of a sudden, he kept saying, I don't want to talk about here, right.

I don't want to do it in person.

Where in the past, everything was in play, right, on text messages, which they make it a note of. But now he's like, I don't talk about this. I don't want talk, right?

And two weeks or maybe a little less before her death, all of a sudden he does a 180 via text. And now he's requesting to have a key to the apartment so that he can visit the child that he wants nothing to do with. Basically.

Correct.

Which is so manipulative and psychotic.

Well, if you read. If you go through these texts, I'm not going to read them all. It's. But what really stands out to me is, like, just how sad she was. So stilted, so stunted emotionally by these people, by divine, by both farwells, I hope divine and Billy far will get their day too. So stunted by these people and heel that she was just that age. She was just very immature. Friends told us time and time again, and she was just wanted to be very needy. And it's just sad to read. And this guy just prayed on it. Like he just knew it and just played her. But she was scared. There were reports of him pushing her around the last couple of weeks before, but. And she also said one of the texts that Farwell, once he got, was in the apartment and was almost looking around the area that wound up where he killed her. Around the closet. The closet. So, yeah, I mean, those, to me, were kind of big takeaways text wise. We just didn't see them. And it was exactly, we thought, super graphic at times. Um, Farwell admitted that she was underage the first time that they had sex.

Um, very demanding sexual orders and just weird stuff. And then she was threatening him with. Once he found that her wife. His wife was pregnant, she started. So then once that happened, it seemed like things really. And then she's like, well, then I wanna be pregnant. Like, you have to make me pregnant. And once that started, once she got pregnant, to your point, he just couldn't handle it.

Right.

He just couldn't handle it. Anyhow, you from the.

I would say we did report during the season that a friend of hers called the Stoughton police Department.

Yep.

And basically said, actually, it was kind of something we made fun of a little bit, in a sense, is that, like, Sandra owed her friend, like, 200 money.

Right.

And it was a small amount of money. And we maybe said, like, why would she do that? But part of that in that call was that that friend was so angry that she said, you better do something about this, because, you know, my friend, Sandra Bergemore, is sleeping with one of your colleagues, Matthew Farwell, and named him.

Correct. And he flipped out over that.

And instead of taking that to a superior and keeping that private, who did they go to? They went to. That officer went to Matthew Farwell.

Farwell, yes. And how did Farwell handle that?

He was not happy.

Who did he go to right away?

And he went right to Sandra Berchmore text.

How the. What? What are you doing? What the hell? Is it gonna ruin my life? It's amazing that that piece of information that he's like, how dare you do this to me, right? Over and over again.

But it's also amazing that the Stoughton Police Department, some officer we already know, Sandra Berchmore, is in harm's way.

Right. I assume this officer who gave knew her.

Probably, yeah, she was around the place. She was a police explorer. Everybody knew the situation behind the scenes. We already went over that.

To your point, doesn't go to a superior.

No. But puts the friend now in harm's way.

Also that. Yeah.

And that friend may have been the person to break this entire thing.

Definitely. Oh, no, I think you're right. I think that's definitely right. But we've talked about this. There are people along the way. I tweeted out a copy of that letter we got from one of the teachers at the Jesus at East elementary school.

Sounds right. In Sharon.

Yep, in Sharon, where she was. Where Sandra was working at the time. And Sandra went up to this woman just a couple of days before and said, hey, I fear for my life here. And people said, oh, I even saw yesterday on social media. Oh, that's on YouTube. That's the first conversation they ever had. But everyone we talked to said she was like, that. She was an over sharer. We talked about this in the podcast. And the principal there, Darren Reynolds, I think his name is, right, got that information and did nothing with it. Did nothing with it. And Darren Reynolds is still the principal I called this morning, is still the principal at that school. So again, if your kids are going to that school, that guy who I think honestly, like, has blood on his hands to some extent, or at least didn't do enough, just had to make a phone call, right? Just a phone call. And didn't do it, I think was on a Friday. If I'm getting this wrong, I apologize. Well, yeah, I mean, maybe it was. And by the way, like, she wasn't. Whatever it was, she wasn't at school the next day and next day.

And he never even put that together.

No.

Never called the police. Forget being prohibitive, like, before she died, even after she died.

Right.

Never said, geez, this is strange. So people like that. You're right. That particular. So we don't know who that cop is.

We do not know who that we'll find.

I think we may find out who that cop was. Darren Ramos. We're going to keep an eye on him for sure. I don't know why he still has that job. I think that's insane. But people like that. You're right. One other piece of information, and you mentioned this to me before we started recording. It's a good point, is she was doing laundry when she died. Like, the wash was going or the dryer was. I forget which one. It was. I apologize, but she was in the middle of a cycle of laundry that didn't show up anywhere on the reports from, from blank.

There was up, there was multiple, there was cotard lang cotard race, a bunch of. And by the way, every single report from that incident was different. Like, everybody saw something.

Something different. Right.

Whether it was what she used, you know, to potentially kill herself or whatever.

Belter.

The. Yeah, everything was different from these officers that it was just, it just felt shady.

Right.

From day one, even the day.

No one but the. But, yeah, it's just, it's a strange detail. I think the point of that is this is somebody who, like, was like, I'm gonna do some laundry, put my wash on, and then I'm gonna do this really intricate way of committing suicide.

Right.

Doesn't make a lot of sense. As is, like, going that day to buy something at, or like we said a million times, you know, never texting anybody after fighting with Farwell. Just, they just, part of the thing didn't add up. Not a huge deal, but something that we just never. Piece of information we never had.

Right. We knew. I believe we knew that her phone never moved after we knew that left. We knew that we didn't know the timing. And I believe in this report that it was. The phone stopped moving three minutes before Matthew Farwell is seen on camera and leaving the building.

Correct.

So that right there alone would have added.

Pretty telling.

Yeah, it's pretty telling. And, you know, back to your John Fanning point, I know you talked to him multiple times. We talked to him once to think that this individual would just, well, tell.

People who Jon Fanning is.

John Fanning is the, is the lead investigator for the Sandra Berchmore case.

Right.

He is also in some way connected to the Karen Reed case. Like, all of them are in the Norfolk county district attorney's office.

Right.

But he investigated fully. He, obviously, some other players were involved. But he told us that his belief was that Matthew Farwell broke up with Sandra Berchmore and she made an impulse decision on.

Right. That's the quote. Yep. And I think his quote was. I think he, I think the quote was, I don't want to get it wrong that sometimes women can be emotional.

Something like that.

Right. Is that. Yeah. Again, I don't want to misquote it, but you're exactly right. It was impulse. That's exactly. I was trying to figure out the word this morning, made an impulse decision on the fly, which we didn't believe at the time, but.

And by the way do you think he believed it? Um. I'm starting to doubt that. With a lot of stuff that we've now learned as goes on in that office.

I fight the massive conspiracy. I just don't.

I I fight it from a deliberate standpoint.

Yes.

I don't fight it from a lazy stamp.

I agree. Once. Yes. Yeah. But I don't think they get together. Like, I don't think everyone got together, was, like, Sandra Bertram or kill this off. That's the guy who Matt's with. Like, let's cover this whole thing up. I think it's more of call the.

Me, this is a suicide, and let's just take it off our plate.

Let's not even worry about it.

Right.

I think it's more like that. And then they figure out, like, oh, God, that was her. You know? But. But we said the entire series, like, it would just never add up to me, was a guy like that goes upstairs in, like, a slight snowstorm of the snowstorm, when his wife is in the hospital getting ready to deliver a baby, goes up, talks to Sandra Berchmore, who is a serial texter, and everything leaves. She didn't text anybody. She doesn't move. We didn't know she didn't move her phone, didn't text anybody. And just kills herself. Like, it just never. It just never made sense.

Serial texter pro, I would assume. And I don't know if the evidence points to this either, but probably just serial, like, Internet user, right? She's super active all the time.

We saw.

We didn't read in these reports that she was searching suicidal thoughts or suicide methods.

We heard, though people did tell us that was the case with her. We heard that from a few people.

We heard it, but we didn't. We didn't even heard that she said she was suicidal to someone. That we heard that she might have had some mental issues. We know there was a therapist. We spoke to a therapist. We, you know, Sandra told that therapist that.

That Farwell was threatening to kill her at one point. Right? Is that in the report also? Is that therapist supposed to be in a position where she's supposed to come here, she's supposed to contact the authorities with that information? That's it. That's it. That's a. That's a threat of life, right? I mean, I would think. Right?

Yeah. Well, I know in this report that said the therapist, you know, made the. Said that she was not suicidal whatsoever.

Right. But no, but I'm saying, I. Unless I'm wrong, I've read it a couple of times. I thought the therapist was told, like, that Farwell was threatening her. I'll read it again. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Therapist. But, yeah, but there was a lot of that, and there was plenty of people who knew the Farwell was threatening her life. I mean, this was nothing.

So the craziest thing to me.

Yeah.

Is that. And you and I talked about this, the. You know, when we heard the news yesterday, first thing was that all of this information was there for the Massachusetts. Massachusetts State Police to solve this very easily, because we said to ourselves, okay, what do the feds have that we didn't have and that the Massachusetts state police didn't obtain? And it turns out it was some pretty basic shit.

Very basic.

It was, let's go hire a doctor who just. Who's gonna say their viewpoint on how Sandra Birch Moore passed.

Right.

And we're gonna read some text messages. And the Massachusetts State police, obviously, we know now they couldn't find 32, whatever thousand text messages that would have been helpful to them. But also, were they looking for those text messages?

They weren't. They clearly. Weren't they to your point earlier, they looked at this. They said, a messed up girl killed herself. Okay, let's not even worry about it. And, you know, like, so people started ask questions, and we were, to our credit, like we were some of the early asking questions, like, doing. And I know another big moment, I think just talking people yesterday, as you were saying, another big moment was when we found that video. We put that. We started putting that video the far. Well, going into the apartment like that, definitely for people was a. Wow, this is a crazy. And they talked about a lot in the report, too, yesterday. The affidavit is, you know, like, you saw him yesterday. He's six four, huge, like 280 or something. I don't know. And she's 410. This all started when she was 1213 years old with these people. So also, you know, I'd like to hear what they're doing to do a Robert Devine or Billy Farwell. You know, this was, this underage. We know he'll has been decertified. He's threatening legal action. Do you see that?

No.

Josh, I didn't tell you. That heel is threatening legal. He's got some legal action going against us. I thought I sent you that.

No, I don't believe so.

I thought I did. No. Yeah, he's threatening. He's threatening legal action. Okay. Not against us, but against the police department. And saying that our podcast is a reason why he lost his job.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I've seen those.

Yeah, yeah. Using us is the podcast is a reason why this guy, who, another guy took advantage of birch more is out of a job as well. And that's a whole episode as well. But we had talk about the pathologist report and why. That's why that's big as well.

Well, the pathologist report just basically said, and I don't speak medical terms, but there was, you know, something broke one of the thyroid. You know what I mean? Something along those lines. And their pathologist, the fed's pathologist said like, that doesn't typically happen in a suicide. In a suicide.

Right.

This.

Yeah.

And so, and that's what, you know, the family hired an outside pathologist, Doctor Boden. He said the same thing. And so now you got two outside pathologists. And if you're the feds. Now, I've been hearing that the feds have been working on this for a long time.

People have reached. You have enough people reach out to me for months saying this.

Yeah. And I believe so you did an update episode with Turtle Boy to talk about.

Yeah.

The similarities between the two cases that you guys were covering at that time. A grand jury was already convening while you were. While you were discussing that. We're saying, oh, I don't think anything will be done. Which a lot of us thought the same.

I was totally wrong. Totally wrong.

Yeah. They were convening at that time.

Yeah. Because, you know, I was, I guess, stupid and not thinking that they would get those text messages right. Like, to me, the text message is just as big as the. I mean, I. At least as big as a pathal because that's going to make their case. Is that enough? What I read yesterday? Is that enough? I'm a jury to convict Farwell. I think so.

I think so, too.

I think he's going to be in, you know, I think he's been found guilty. I don't know when the trial is going to start. We'll be there. We'll be reporting it for sure. I don't know when that trial is going to start. I'm trying to think of the timeline in my head. You get through the reads. I mean, I don't know, a year from now, next summer.

Yeah. Yeah.

Probably won't be as big as a Karen retrial.

No, but it'll be big.

Big.

It'll be big.

Big. It'll be big. And we, you know, like, we played, like, I'm glad you said that because people, I didn't want to say. People reach out to me who were involved in as well and said, look, you guys played like a decent in getting the ball rolling. We're not. We're not the reason it happened, but we played a good role in it. And I'm happy because I was really. I know you were too frustrated that we weren't getting what we wanted and that season.

Right.

You know, getting what this was yesterday.

Yeah.

And I'm not sure what blocked us. Well, I guess I am sure I know what blocked us now, but. Yeah, it's. It's, you know, a nice surprise that he got justice. I did not think when we ended season two, this day would ever come. Just did not think that was going to happen.

I certainly didn't think it would have the seriousness that it had, like being at that courthouse. Yes.

Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, you were there and just seeing him. And first and foremost, the first thing I see when I get there is the lead investigator. As we spoke about John Fanning and Brian Tully, who was one of his superiors within that office.

We talked to.

We've talked to. Before we talked to Tully.

I talked to Tully, I think once I did. Yeah.

Tully was there when I spoke to Morrissey once.

Maybe that's what. Yeah, maybe that's what it was there. Yeah. I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking of. I don't know what is Holmes first name? Brian?

Yes.

He's from Stoughton.

And Holmes might have been there yesterday, too.

Yeah.

Donna McMahon, stone police chief, was there. Yep. But to see those two walk out of the Moakley courthouse almost with their heads down.

Yeah.

Didn't look good, you know? And they were there for the arrest, which I actually don't really know why. Why they were there. Also.

Why did they. I have no sympathy for Farwell or anything, but, like, why they arrest him there in revere. Yeah. Why is arrest him his house?

Why was this kid.

This kid was there. Right.

Weird. Yeah.

It's a summer, maybe, I don't know. But, like, why wouldn't they. Why they do that? Why they, like, do the middle revere.

I guess, too, from a safety perspective, we find out in this, in these documents that he owns ten guns at his home. He is clearly a risk.

Yes.

To the public. So. Yeah, I don't. I guess. I don't know about Revere, but anywhere outside of his house is probably the smart idea.

You think he was stunned yesterday?

No, I think this stuff, the wind was blowing.

Yeah.

And he was, I guess, quote unquote cooperative during the process.

What's he gonna do? Yeah.

But you get there and just. There's something different about being. Let's just call it a district court listening to a court hearing. This was a federal court in the city of Boston. Media is everywhere. There's only. I think I was in the courtroom. There was probably only 15 of us in there. He's walking in in handcuffs with a us marshal by his side. The judge ordering him detained.

Yep.

For at least. I think it's going to be at least two weeks until he's back in court to figure out, you know, if you'll. You know, it was. It was an intense. Yeah, it was intense to see that, you know.

Um. Yeah, no, it's. It's wild. Like I said, we're gonna up. We'll update through the trial, and if we get information, we're gonna break it here for sure. But, yeah, it's. And I keep thinking about the interviews early on with Farwell, with Fanning. Right.

Yep.

Yeah. And how basically they were asking him questions to put him in a good spot. Like, it was not Lee. You know, they were looking at it as, how do we make sure this guy doesn't get in trouble? If you go back and read the reports, we have them all. I'm sure I'll retweet them. If I can find them, I'll find them. And it's basically like they were not looking at him as a suspect at that time.

Right.

Which is, you know, to be charitable, kind of wild. I'm not saying you think he's guilty at that point, but the guy who is, whose pregnant girlfriend was murdered, and your wife is having a baby the day after she's murdered. To not think that he's a suspect is insane.

And he just lied his ass off during all the easy questions.

He only had the one interview, right?

Yep.

Yeah. Both of them. And divine, but. Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

He was just lying the whole time. And basically they write. And basically they were like, well, we know you're lying. And then they gave him more chances. So that's the part where it's not even a conspiracy. That's the part where it gets. And we've talked. We talked about this on one of the episodes where how do you do. Or it's not cops investigating cops.

Yep.

Because they just gonna protect each other, you know? And it goes back to, again, we spent a whole nother episode in this, too, is the explorer program and their role in this. So, I mean, there's a lot of things. We're gonna continue to pick through them, talk to people. People are talking to us now. It's funny.

That's a piece of it that get. That is getting lost in this.

The explorer.

The explorer program. And there was, I think, one person in the scrum yesterday asked about.

I heard that.

Yeah, the scrum. When did the police explore program end in Stoughton? It's not just about the police explorer program. It's an institutional problem.

Yeah.

That needs to be acknowledged. And I understand this is one isolated incident of it, but.

Well, we did an episode with. We left hundreds out. I mean, I've had people messaging me since then, so. Yeah. But now I think it's funny, like I said before, we were. We were on the outside looking in now, and now we're on the inside people. I don't know if you're getting this too, but people are reaching out. People have information. So, you know, when we have stuff, we'll report it either on the Twitter account at the case podcast. Right.

Mm hmm.

We're here, and I don't know how we're gonna handle this going forward, but, you know, if there's news to break, we'll break it here and we'll do episodes, and we'll probably cover the trial and maybe left people on, because this is a story that I think is gonna get. You're right. I think it's gonna get pretty big.

Yep.

Because it's. And we kept saying it while we were doing it, like, why isn't this a bigger story?

Well, because I think it was just, first of all, that institutional. You wanna trust the police thought process. Don't want to. At that time, the Karen Reid case had not blown up to the degree that happened right now. It hadn't happened early. And so I think people wanted to believe that, you know, if. If the police department says that it was a suicide, you got to go with their gut and their belief, and it just turns out that they were just passing the buck and they didn't care, you know?

Yeah. So I. Yeah, I mean, we'll figure. We don't know the time. I'm. Yeah, far. What is back in a couple of weeks.

Couple weeks? Yep.

Yes.

September 10, maybe.

September. You go to that or. No, possibly. Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to.

I wanted to see him walk in there yesterday, but I assume they took him around the back by the side entrance. So that, just, to me, that shows how big the cases.

Yeah.

They're not willing to just get, let a camera show the walk into the courtroom.

Yeah, no, for sure. I'm trying. Is anything else in that that you didn't know?

I don't think so. A lot of it was, I mean.

The text are endless, obviously. And it's, you know, it's, we talked.

To somebody who told us off the record, they had seen the texts. Right, which a lot of texts. And they said it was the most graphic.

Oh, yeah.

Stuff they have ever seen. And it was infuriating to listen to that because we wanted to report these things. We knew that existed. That person couldn't give us the gentleman, this gentleman.

Definitely, right? Definitely. Who wanted to, who was really trying to help us out. Right. And early on was like, you guys are on the right track here. You remember when everyone was like, this person who has a affiliation with law enforcement said, you guys are on the right track here. And you're exactly right. Said, you will. You would not believe that. And when I'm reading yesterday, this guy, Matthew Farwell was telling Sandra Berchmore, hey, I want you to pretend that I'm your older brother or, you know, you know, pretend you're twelve or 13. It's just, I mean, again, does that mean he's, does that mean he killed her? No, but that's part of the case for sure.

Right. This person, I believe, was more connected to the Stoughton Police Department, which is, which has gotten a lot of criticism and rightfully so, do not get me wrong, because this has been going on things like this in Stoughton for years. However, after the internal affairs report, we did start to see a lot of progress from that office, a lot of accountability from Donna McNamara.

I think McNamara wanted this. Like, I think McNamara is very happy yesterday.

Right. And so when the, who, by the way, seems, I mean, the Joshua Levy, the us attorney for Massachusetts, who, you know, oversaw this whole thing, he was the press conference yesterday. He thanked the Stoughton Police Department.

Right.

The Massachusetts State Police and then people within his office. To me, that was basically, he had to include everybody. But it almost made me think that he was mostly thanking the Stoughton Police Department and a guy like who we spoke to because he seemed to be the only one that we talked to that was like, you know, you guys are on the right track to get point in the right place. There was nobody on the Massachusetts state police side. We talked to some.

I'll tell you what, Dave, honestly, the opposite is true because people are like, you're wrong.

Yep.

Like, you're wrong. Like this girl was messed up, and she killed herself. And you said to them, well, you ever think about why she's messed up? Like, what happened? They'd be like, I understand. It was. It was bad. It was scummy. She was sleeping. And even there were suggestions about her, you know, character. But there was a lot of that, like, no, she definitely killed, like, definitively killed herself. And we kept saying, like, there were a lot of times during where I was like, well, maybe we're just totally wrong. Like, I kept waiting for that Smokey gun to come, where it was like, we would talk about, like, okay, something's gonna happen where she. It's proved she killed herself, but obviously it never happened.

No, no, but you're right.

Yeah, that is somebody who was a beacon during that whole thing, because we were running in the walls, people. She killed herself. She killed herself. And this guy you're right. That we talked to was like, no, this is correct. And if you saw these text messages, which, you know, if he saw, why wasn't. Why didn't other people see it?

At that point, I think I assumed that the federal investigation had been ongoing, and that was more inside than we thought. Maybe so, because it certainly wasn't coming from the Massachusetts state police. And I definitely can't imagine that was coming directly from the Stoughton police Department.

No way. Yeah. No, no. All right, so there you go. So, yeah. Matthew Falwell arrested and charged with the murder. Senator Birchmore. Federal case is facing potentially the death penalty, certainly life in prison that found guilty. We'll continue to update this season, season two of the case as a trial goes on. Other if we find information, we'll either do it in the show Twitter account, the case podcast, or here, as we try and figure out season three. Anything else from you, Dave?

That's it. You're two for two.

Well, whatever. I mean, I'm just ha. I'm very happy that. It's just I didn't.

You have to fight for this stuff. And whether it's a podcaster or whether now YouTube is blowing up with everyone and their mother, everybody is doing good work.

Well, I don't think everybody's doing good. I don't think that's true. I think. I know. I don't. I think people are. Some people are doing lazy work, and I think some people like us. Take our time. Uh, well, me anyway. I don't know. But you on that tick tock of yours. But. But take our. Take your time and actually do journalism and investigate and have conversations. I think that's different than. I'll give you an example for, for me. Like, I don't want to get too into it, but season one, the story in Brockton, South Carolina, I've seen a lot of ripoffs of that. I know you have to. Those people are not doing a lot of work. Like, the week, like the tick tock. Not, not. There are people also there doing good work in YouTube. You're right. But there are people who are also lazy about it and just assume stuff and just run with it, where a lot of people don't take their time. And I would say to people, like, it's a process. You're not gonna, you're not gonna solve them. You're gonna be like, oh, boy. I think this, this. I think her name is Ellen Greenberg.

The Pennsylvania girl, I believe is her name. Woman who went missing. I'm gonna go solve that today. Like, it doesn't work that way. You do have to take your time, but you're right. And, like, police departments need to be called out in their stuff if they mess up. They just have to, you know, and this is a titanic, totally, wholly preventable screw up from the start, including taking care of Robert Devine, both far wells, this guy, Darren Reynolds, the so police officer, to your point, when the friend called, there are for everyone. Those is another one where this could have been preventable and Farwell could, would be in jail right now, but they didn't, and she died because of that. So they have a hell of a lawsuit in their hands. That's, you know, so we'll find out. But, yeah, so we'll keep updating you from this, from this spot here, and anything goes on, and we'll check in when that happens.