Survivor47 is here, which means we're bringing you a brand new season of the only official survivor podcast, On Fire. And this season, we are joined by fan favorite and survivor 46 runner up Charlie Davis to bring you even further inside the action. Charlie, I'm excited to do this together. Thanks, Jeff. So excited to be here, and I can't wait to bring you inside the mind of a survivor player for season 47. Listen to On Fire, the official survivor podcast, starting September 18th, wherever you get your podcast.

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Hey, this is Roni Chang. The Daily Show is on break this week, but don't worry, we put together some special highlights for you to catch up on in case you miss them.

We'll be back on September 10th. Until then, enjoy this episode. Welcome back to The Daily Show.

My guest tonight, an entrepreneur, and already owner of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks, co founder of Cost Plus Truck Company. Please welcome Mark Kippen. Welcome. Thank you. You are- Yes, sir. Security? I didn't hear you.

What did you say?

No. This is a Nicks town, Frank. They love that. Now, are people in New York, are they because of the history between the Mavericks and the Knicks, generally with the trades where you fleeced us to a certain extent? Do you find there's a kindness that is extended to you from Knicks fans?

I like to walk in New York, right? And just today, walking down the street, Yeah, Q-Man, we love you. It's crazy. Really? There's great basketball fans here. I get all kinds of love.

And that's what you get in New York. That's what they shout at you.

Yeah, but now That's what I get. And now it's more thanks for JB, right? But yeah, that's what I get.

Well, Jalen Brunson. Now, did you have any idea when Jalen Brunson was there, and I'm sorry to go down this road, but I'm a nick fan, and this is just you're going to have to sit through it. Jalen Brunson was not. He started in the play house when-Yeah, when Luca got hurt.

Luca was hurt.

Did you have any idea that he would become this all-NBA phenomenon? He's undersized. He doesn't. His footwork is so phenomenal.

No, no idea. He was talented, but he was picked in the Second round, if everybody knew, he would have been a top five pick. If you redraft that draft, other than Luca, he is a top three or five pick.

That's amazing. It's crazy.

But more credit to him. He worked on it.

Yeah, and it just seems like a phenomenal guy. And then decided to take a contract for less money than he could have made.

So let's talk politics. By the way, now, you are in this interesting position in your career where you've evolved.

You are now, even though I think your leanings are probably you consider more independent, more libertarian, you are the left's favorite billionaire. You've become... I don't know if it's because there's a certain mellowing that occurs as you get older, or if this new tech bro phenomenon is so dystopian in its formulation Nation.

Yeah. I mean, this is who I've always been. I haven't been the rich guy trying to act like a rich guy. My friends are still my high school buddies, my college buddies, my rugby buddies. But watching what's happening in Silicon Valley is insane. It's not so much a support thing. It's more like a takeover thing, trying to put themselves in a position to have as much control as possible. They want Trump to be the CEO of the United States of America, and they want to be the board of directors that makes him listen to them. It's not a good thing.

What is the ethos? Because it seems like in the old days of innovation, there was a certain amount of we're innovating the Internet, we're taking things. Now it seems much more about this social engineering and transhumanism We are going to join with computers, and together, eight of us are going to run everything. Dominate, right? Is that the ethos you see?

Yeah, I think-I'm going to go with yeah.

You just said yeah.

They've gotten to the point now where they feel like they should control the world, right? And that there should be a CEO in charge of everything.

Because they have a good photo app?

Because they're rich as fuck, right? It's just like you get to that point sometimes where I think they've lost the connection to real world.

Is it boredom? Is there a certain extent? If you're a Bezos or one of those guys, you've sold so many books that you're just like, I'm going to live on Mars.

It's just I think it's more of what's their next act? We invented this, we did this, we created that. What can we do next? Somebody wants to go to Mars? Well, what can we do here back on Earth? Well, look at Elon. Elon, in being one of those powerful people, he's trying to be the most influential man in the world. It sounds like a commercial, but literally, that's what Twitter has given us.

I've got to say, I think he might be that. I don't even think he's trying to be. When you talk about somebody who is setting up satellite links for war zones and also controlling discourse in the most important media platform, I would think he is the most powerful.

Because Twitter is in almost every country, right? Twitter gives him the ability to connect to the Prime Minister, the head of every country in the world. That's right. That person, whoever's in charge of that country, has an interest in what happens on Twitter. What happens on Twitter because of the control of the algorithms being the biggest user is all dependent on Elon Musk. He literally, wherever his thumb wants to go, he gets to push as hard as he wants.

Certainly, he's transparent about where he wants things to go. I think he's very clear that civil war is inevitable and that white people are under the government. Concerning. It'll be like, Civil War is inevitable, and then he'll write underneath there. Kind of an understatement on there. But I can't decide whether or not it's better to know exactly where he stands and know where he's going to be put the thumb on because he's clearly a very bright guy, and he has a media empire that has the largest reach and most influence of anything on the face of the Earth. There's no question he's going to leverage it in this election. No question.

But the crazy part is he has more impact globally than he does domestically, in my opinion. Because when you go on X, you see a preponderance of right-leaning people. You don't see a lot.

They're all over my For You. I've never clicked on any of these things.

That's the whole thing. That's the way algorithms work, right? What? Yes.

They do the opposite of what I want?

Yes. When somebody tells me, When you write an algorithm, I haven't written a lot. It's been a while, but when you write one, you get to set the parameters of what you want to see happen. He certainly has done that to the things he likes. But it's different in other platforms. The good news is, what, 20% of adults in the United States are on Twitter? I mean, there's 80% who aren't there.

But isn't this a certain amount of tech bro malpractice that there is this incredible need in the marketplace of something that is slightly less biased or toxic when it comes through there. They came out with threads, and you're on it for two seconds. You're like, I think I need an app.

No, I like threads. Threads is getting better. Try it. It's getting better.

Here's something that doesn't sell online. No, it's getting better. That may be the worst pitch for anything. But see, you do disrupt industries. I try. See, that's why I would have thought, and I think you've said this, that Trump appealed to you at first because there is a certain outsider. Look, we both know our government, there is a status quo, and there is a capture by lobbies and by big businesses that write this legislation and end up gaining advantage that needs to be disrupted. Correct. When did it occur to you that he didn't necessarily want to free it, he wanted to have the deed to the swamp signed over to him?

About the third time I talked to him. He wasn't about changing. The conversations I would have with him, I'm like, there was a time when- Are these phone conversations? Yeah, phone conversations.

Is it Zoom?

No, it wasn't Zoom. That was pre-Zoom, actually. Does he FaceTime? No, I didn't FaceTime. But we were talking about this one debate for CNBC that he wasn't going to be at. I'm like, Donald-Not going, Mark.

Not going. It's not happening.

I'm like, Donald, why don't you go to a local small business and sit there at the table and just show off your business chops and show people your business? He goes, Donald Trump and Mark Cuban don't go to people's houses and have dinner? Are you kidding me? That's who he is. When we talked about what's he going to do with the ground game. Now, I got all these religious people who are going to do the work for me.

In his mind, I think this is very interesting, and maybe you know this, too. He runs a family business. So he is, in essence, a monarch. It's a dictatorship. Maybe there's not as much malevolence to his actions as, Oh, this America can be a subsidiary of the Trump organization because this is how I run it. They might say, Well, we have checks and balances and division of government. And he just thinks himself, Yeah, no, we're going to get rid of that.

Yeah, that's the sense I get. That's what it is. Yeah, this is my country, right? Everybody else is bad. Donald Good.

Okay. Donald Good. So whoever thinks Donald Good, also good.

Come along for the ride, right? I mean, he just brought hate and anger to politics, and that is his sales pitch.

When you talk to him, is that a part of his general conversation decision, or do you think that is a strategic demogogging of he wants to get that emotion?

That wasn't what we talked about, but I think that's... Donald is a sales rep. He's a salesperson. He's going to follow what works. He's going to try all kinds of different things. He's going to talk to all kinds of different people, and he'll try things out. If it works, he's going to do more of it.

Do you see him on his heels now? When was the last time that you had these counseling sessions?

No, I talked to him probably 2019. No, I talked to him during the pandemic because I was trying to help him with different things. Look, he's still the President of the United States. It's still our country. I tried to help him with PPE and a lot of different things, a lot of medical care type stuff. Sure.

Were you the who suggested the bleach? Is that you? Is that everything? Everything's going great? Everything's worked. And Cuban calls up and says, Have you tried drinking liquid plumber?

I did not say drink. I said, inject.

All right. There we go.

There we go.

John Stuart here. Un unbelievably exciting news. My new podcast, The Weekly Show. We're going to be talking about the election, economics, ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. Listen to The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. What is your relationship now with this tech world? How does AI fit into that? How do you remain bullish on those innovations when they so clearly are working to avoid any regulation of these new innovations?

Okay, two things. One, they're there because they're rich, not because they're tech bros or because they just happen to make their in tech. I don't think that's really applicable. The AI side, I've been in technology for a long time, and you can always look at a new tech, PCs, networks, the Internet, streaming, whatever, and say, Okay, in five years, this is what's going to happen, right? I have a good sense. With AI, you can't do that. With large language models, we have no idea whether it's going to zig or zag or what the impact is going to be. That's the good news and the bad news. The good news is we're dominating right now globally, the United States is. The bad news is-In termsIn terms of? In terms of the quality and the impact of the AI and the advancements that we're introducing in the AI, the research that we're doing. We are, without question, the leader, and that's really important from a defense perspective, military, et cetera, and also from a business perspective, it's going to have a big impact on this country. I personally think it's generally positive, but there's a lot of uncertainty to come.

What gives you the hope that it's generally positive?

Because as a counterpoint, we heard the same thing about social media, and we heard the same thing about all these different innovations of the connectivity. And yet, every time I turn on Congress, Zuckerberg is up there like, Look, I'm really sorry. I didn't know it was going to kill all your daughters.

Now, remember, it's still just a short window. Social media has really only been prominent last six years. I think we'll learn and we'll evolve, and the same thing will happen with AI. There's going to be in time where it's up, and people are using it. But I think over time, particularly with Gen Z, Gen Z is a different beast. Boomers are idiots. We went from sex drugs and rock and roll to Fox News. It doesn't get any worse than that. They're trying to-We haven't done well. No. They're trying to define regulations, and that's hard. That's really, really hard. I think Gen Z has a better understanding, a better feel for AI and where it's going and we'll be able to come up with better uses, better implementations, and better regulations.

Does it concern you that the implementation time frame? When you think about the industrial revolution, and you think about the disruption or globalization, the disruption to the workforce, the way that labor can travel, and labor cannot travel, but capital can, and all these different things that were a race to the bottom for American workers to a large extent. But all those changes took place over, sometimes a century, for sometimes decades, the changes in AI, the disrupt... Right. When you've got something that disrupts to maybe even a larger extent than globalization did, to maybe a larger extent than the industrial revolution did, and it's going to happen by Thursday, in what world are humans in any way capable and set to withstand that disruption?

I think we'll be able to withstand it, but I think it's going to be very disruptive. The problem is it's going to happen anyways. Somebody here, your son at Duke, can say, I've got this great idea. I'm going to implement it with an open-source, large language model, and I'm going to take it in this direction. That's so weird.

He did say that to me.

Right? But Gen Z is different. Gen Z, I think, looks at humanity differently, is kinder. I've got three kids, 15, 18, and 21, right? Right. They're just nicer. They're not like we were.

Are you trying to say, are Are we weathering what is the last gasp of this more misanthropic moment in history? In your mind, whatever happens, this is going to be a more misanthropic decade that will be ameliorated by this younger generation.

I hope so, because the regulatory cap, the way we've always done politics right now is everybody's chasing power, and nothing will give you more power than military and AI. I think the algorithm... I mean, we talk going back to algorithms again, driven by AI. That's the most powerful element in the world right now because everybody just gets whatever they're seeing reinforced. If you want to influence somebody, just manipulate the algorithm and you'll get their attention.

But I think-So what's the remedy on that? If there's no one working a pushback, if pushing back on that is considered a censorship. You just got to go through it.

It's just one of those things where you've got to go through it.

It's an evolution of a new media model?

Just an evolution of technology, more than media. Because if we don't do it, the Chinese and the Russians will, because the only thing that holds AI back is processing power, electricity, and ingenuity. I think our ingenuity wins. I'm still a big believer in American exceptionalism. I still believe that we've got the best technologist in the world. I think that's why we have to open that door for AI.

Ultimately, it becomes a question of the world is going to be carved up in the way that it's always been somewhat carved up in in terms of its resources. The question is, is it carved up by the Western world or is it carved up by a different world? Do they set up a different system? I'm assuming that Russia and China see a unique vulnerability in the West ascension in this moment that's been the world order since 1945.

Everybody looks at it and looks at it and says, AI, if I can... He who controls AI. But we've done a good job of limiting processors. The new Semiconductor Act will help us quite a bit, and we're already doing most of those things here.

How do you resist the Ring? Lord of the Rings, the Ring of Power. It's the one thing, boy, when you get the ring, you just don't want to let it go. How do you resist that? Because you've got the money, you've got the influence. You could be that guy. You could be setting those things up and doing all that, but you're just trying to get us better generic aspirin. What is happening? What makes you- I'll just put it that way. No, I'm not going to say it.

Because I know what I know, and I know what I can do. I know what I'm good at.

You're not tempted by the ring that's in front of you.

Because I think there's a different ring, right? Because, yeah, AI could be the end all, be all technologically, but that doesn't play to my strengths. The ups and downs and ins and outs are just not me. But you want to talk about pharmacy, what could be better than f uping up the health care system in the United United States of America and make it so it's affordable. That's interesting.

There's a path there. I imagine when you get in that position at that height, you can't help but hear the siren call of, You could run this whole thing, Cuban.

Maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit. But I hate to use the cliché, but the way I was raised, I've got three kids, and I don't want to miss that. I don't want to be '95 and look back and say, I was present, but I didn't get to know my kids at all. I'd rather say, I've got up health care and everybody's healthier and everybody's got a better world to live in. My kids and I are friends. We're close. They bring over the grandkids and the kids' kids. That's just more important to me.

Do you have your eye on other industries right now where you can do the same kinds of things?

Yeah. There's pharmacy. Costplusdrugs. Com. See, I'm going to get that sales pitch in there. Yeah. Costplusdrugs. Com is literally in process of having a significant impact on the drug market. We are pushing generic drugs down now. We're right around the corner from-But you're negotiating prices in a way that hasn't been done prior. When you go, prior to us, there was no transparency whatsoever. Nobody knew what the price of any medication was, whether you're an employer playing for your employer.

It's just run by these boards.

Yeah, these pharmacy benefit managers are dictating prices left and right. They're basically stealing money from employers and employees. We walked in there and said, What's the one missing piece? Transparency. When you go to costplusdrugs. Com, you put in the name of the medication you might take, let's just say Tadilafil. I know you don't know what that is. Sure, Tadilafil. I'm so hopped up on Tadilafil right now.

You have no idea. Do you know what it is? I don't.

Generic Cialis.

That's As I said before, I am so hopped up on this.

When you go to costplustrex. Com and you put in toDillifil or whatever, first thing we do is we show you our cost. Then we show you our markup, which is always 15% and everybody gets the same price. Because we're mail order to start, we're starting to partner with pharmacies now, there's a shipping fee, and then there's a fee for the pharmacist to review everything. When you do it that way-And this is legal. Of course, it's legal. Yeah, it's good old American capitalism. But let me just tell you the impact. There are drugs that... There's a drug called a Matnib for chemotherapy. That when we started, the price of a Matnib, if you just walked into a big pharmacy, a big chain pharmacy, was going to be $2,000. You go to costplusdrugs. Com, it's under 30. There's a drug, droxodopa. That's just insane. I had a friend, Landon, who was in this horrific car crash, and he needed this drug, droxodopa. He had lost his insurance. It was going to be $30,000 every three months. I'm like, Let me just check to see if we can get it. $64 a a month, and the price has gone down since.

All because we were transparent.

Weren't there dudes like Martin Schrelle in jail for shit like that? When you jack prices up like that, and why can't the United States government negotiate in terms of... If you're the largest customer to any industry, it's criminal that you wouldn't use any leverage to make those things more available to people.

The problem was there's this thing called pharmacy benefit managers, right? They're basically responsible for doing in the negotiating with, to a certain extent, Medicare, but with all the large employers. If you're one of those big companies that cover 150 million employees across the country, that's who you negotiate with. The first rule when they negotiate, they say is, You can't talk about this. It's like fight club. You cannot say what your price is. You can't say what we're doing in our negotiation. They got so big doing that that nobody ever questioned them. We come along, and actually, Martin Screlley plays a little part in this whole thing because when he got thrown in jail, I was talking to Alex Myansky, my partner, and it's like, If this dude can just jack up the price, it is not an efficient market. That means nobody knows what the real cost is. If we publish our price, boom, the whole world is going to change. As it turns out, the FTC just came out with this report criticizing the PBMs. They used our pricing data. The smartest thing we did was-So now, this brings up, so FTC is the Federal Trade Commission, and boy, there's nothing the tech world hates more- Than the FTC.

Then the FTC. How does that square?

Well, like any agency, they do something's right and something's wrong. But in this case, with the PBMs, they're crushing them and it's justified.

Now, is it something that can't be done throughout the health care? Because one of the difficulties with health care is the contingencies of you can't really comparison shop when you have a heart attack. You're basically saying, Drive me to the closest hospital. Take care of me. But those prices you're talking about, you could get heart attack treatment at this hospital. It's It's $50,000, but you go up the street and it's $12,000.

Nobody knows. What happens is who's paying when you, God forbid, have a heart attack and you go there, and let's just say it's going through your employer. Your employer has no idea what they're paying. What we're saying is on drugs first, and now we're just getting it approved today, we're going to publish all contracts. Never before has it been done where for my companies, we're saying, If you want to do business with us, if this hospital system wants to work with my companies, whatever it may be, we're going to publish them and put them online for anybody to see all of our pricing.

I think that's fantastic. But I'm curious then, why is there such pushback on this idea of applying those same kinds of competitions and things to our healthcare system? We talk about, We have got to privatize healthcare system, and it's the best in the world. But very clearly, it doesn't function like a free market.

No, it's not free market at all.

In any way at all. What is so terrible about getting everybody health care? Why is that such a nathema?

That's why I'm doing this. But these companies, these PBMs and the big insurance companies, they call them the Bucas, the largest insurance companies, they are so big. Like I keep on saying, big employers cover 150 million people. The CEO of this big company doesn't know much about health care and their health care costs. They just say to them, Okay, we're going to write you a check for a rebate, even though it's your sickest employees that are paying for that rebate. They just don't know. It's so It's interesting because it's such a non-villanous...

Nobody ever talks about big prescription benefit manager. That's a good thing. It's always like big oil is going to come down or big tobacco or big pharma. It's really like big middle manager.

Yeah, that's what it is. You cut them out. There's no reason for the big ones that control 90% of the prescriptions that are filled. There's no reason for them to exist. There are others that are called pass-through PBMs that show you all your claims, show you all your data, to show you all your pricing, that do it for a fraction of the price. There's an opportunity there. Disruption, baby. Disruption, baby.

That's what I like to see. What else you have your eye on as far as-Healthcare. It's going to be healthcare. Health care, yeah. I'm with that. I'm with that, too. It might be with that money if you could help the next... Okay, forget it. It's all fine.

Let's go, Mav.

No, stop it. Thank you very much for coming by. It was always a fascinating conversation. Check out costplusdrugs. Com. Mark Cuban.

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Survivor 47 is here, which means we're bringing you a brand new season of the only official survivor podcast, On Fire. And this season, we are joined by fan favorite and survivor 46 runner up Charlie Davis to bring you even further inside the action. Charlie, I'm excited to do this together. Thanks, Jeff. So excited to be here, and I can't wait to bring you inside the mind of a survivor player for season 47. Listen to On Fire, the official survivor podcast, starting September 18th, wherever you get your podcast.