Get ready to hear the truth about America on a show that's not immune to the facts with your host, Dan Bongino, a total, complete evisceration last night in a debate totally. Anybody trying to spin to you any nonsense? Kamala Harris looked competent last night, and that debate is simply lying to you. Listen, I'm Annon. I'm not trying to be some kind of objective guy. I think you all know I'm I'm a strong, devout conservative. But Mike Pence absolutely annihilated and destroyed Kamala Harris last night.

I got the evidence today. I'm going to show you the highlights of the mike. Mike Pence is total destruction of Kamala Harris. There are four specific things that stuck out to me last night. I'm going to give you in a nutshell, I also got the interview, the long anticipated interview in today's show with Michael Hanton, the author of The Coming Coup, a topic that has the Democrats in the media so freaked out that I'm not kidding. A New York Times reporter keeps reaching out to me, desperate to get my take on what they think the Democrats coming coup is because they're so terrified we're exposing them.

I'm not kidding. You're not gonna want to miss that Today show. But you express VPN, surf the web in peace, keep your online activity free from prying eyeballs, get a VPN, go to express VPN dotcom slash by Jeno today. Welcome to the Dan Bongino show. Day after my surgery, some of you could see the if you want to watch the video, move the microphone a bit. There's the quite a long scar on my neck there.

So you might be wondering why the hell we're doing a show a day later. Because I want to and I want to thank you all. We got so many well wishes and we got flowers at the hotel and people were just overwhelming in their outpouring of support. Twitter, Facebook, parler, email, everything. And it means the world to us. I mean, that it's made this experience a lot easier to get through.

I got a call yesterday to just to show you what kind of a guy he really is. Despite the media nonsense about the president, the president called before I went to surgery. I'm not kidding. Like, that's the kind of guy he has to check in on me and see how he's doing. He's just a wonderful guy. He really is. And it's a shame it gets lost in all the media hysteria about him. Just an amazing guy he has.

He's sick himself or was and he's concerned about me and the eating even rush me off the phone. Just an amazing guy. Right before I went in for surgery. One quick thing, I they took out a massive tumor from my neck. I have a picture I was going to show it to you today. Paula strongly objects to this, so I'll leave it up to you. We can we could do like a five second countdown in tomorrow's show.

I'll be home tomorrow, Friday. So we'll have a show for my regular studio. So if you want to see it on Rumble, Rumble, Dotcom Slash Bongino, that's the video version of our show. While free, of course. Let us know we could do a countdown to warn you. It's a big tuber, though. It looks like something out of Alien or maybe Prometheus, like the original Alien prequel. But it was big. Hey, listen, I got to make light of it.

So it Paula is adamantly against it. All right. Let's get to the content that tonight's debate in the interview, Michael Hanton, which I promise you're going to love the show brought to you by a good friends in Omaha steaks. What? We do it out. Omaha steaks in my house. We'd be lost because they have the best darn food out there. We live off Omaha steaks. Whenever we cook, we cook when Omaha steaks because it's delicious.

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Their steaks are unbelievable to the only disappointing. You never want to eat another steak again outside of Omaha. Thank you all for being here. All right, folks, let's get to it. I'll get myself the bell. Ding, ding. Because we don't have Joe here to do it, but we will be back in studio tomorrow. So don't you worry. No days off you. That's it. It's too important of a time. So let's get to the debate last night.

What a total mess for Kamala Harris. Again, I don't care what your partisan stripes are, your partisan affiliation. It was a disaster. She got crushed. She look like a child on stage with the adult in the room. And Mike Pence broke every single piece of. Ridiculous, extreme, far left agenda down right in front of our eyes for all of America to see, even some of the leftist hacks had to acknowledge it wasn't the Biden campaign's best night.

Let's go to piece number one. This is Mike Pence finally, finally calling out the both the kind of the moderator here and Kamala Harris and Joe Biden about their obvious, obvious lies about fracking. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not here to tell you what to think. You're all smart people. You can figure it out on your own. A lot of you are a lot smarter than me. You're I've read your emails. You're brilliant. But I do a lot of homework and politics is what I do for a living, I'm a political commentator.

I'm not telling you how to think or who to vote for.

You'll figure that out on your own. You're very smart. I'm just telling you, if you are in the hydro fracking business, fracking, natural gas in Pennsylvania, the Marcellus play over in Ohio. But if you are anywhere involved in fracking in Texas, in West Texas, anywhere that Joe Biden and his campaign and Kamala Harris have already committed to stopping fracking, the fact that they've seemingly changed their mind because they think you won't notice is irrelevant. When they ran, they ran on banning fracking.

And I'm absolutely convinced they will ban fracking because a radical left owns Joe Biden. Here was Mike Pence finally calling her out last night in lives. They already said they're going to ban fracking.

I'll show you the proof after this court play this first, Senator Harris, you're you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts. You yourself said on multiple occasions when you were running for president that you would ban fracking. Joe Biden looked at supporter in the eye and pointed and said, I guarantee, I guarantee that we will abolish fossil fuels.

They have a two trillion dollar version of the Green New Deal, Susan, that your newspaper, USA Today, said really wasn't that very different from the original Green New Deal. More taxes, more regulation banning fracking, abolishing fossil fuel, crushing American energy and economic surrender to China is a prescription for economic decline. President Trump and I will keep America growing. The V. Shaped recovery that's underway right now will continue with four more years of President Donald Trump.

Listen, don't take my word for it. You don't even have to take Pence's word for it. I'm going to play a video on a second of Kamala Harris telling you she absolutely wants to ban fracking. Listen, if you're in the fracking business and you don't like your job, then yea vote for Harrison, by the way, to frame it, Paul is right next to me, to my left. Move it around. You could see the hotel.

We we moved around. We need a change of scenery now. She's to the left of me. But if you don't like it right, you don't like your job. If you're if you're in fracking, it's not a good way to put it. Right. She's nodding in approval like she's that you're a little confused about how you feel. But you should ask why she doesn't like when I read them. We call out her in the middle of the show.

It's hilarious. This is she doesn't want me turn my head. That's why because of the surgery. I know I'm not supposed to, but I know I'm terrible with doctor's instructions. I should do better. Folks, if you don't like your job and you want to be fired, you want your business to go on the yes vote for Caris Biden, who've already committed to it. You don't believe me? I've already played video. I'm not going to play it again of Joe Biden pledging to banning fracking, getting rid of fracking, saying he absolutely means it.

Here's his running mate, Kamala Harris on tape again, swearing to a potential voter that she's going to ban fracking, too. Again, don't take my word for it. Take Kamala Harris his word for it. Here you go. There's no question I'm in favor of banning fracking.

So, yeah, and starting and starting with what we can do on day one around public lands.

Right. And and then there has to be legislation. But yes. And this is something I've taken on in California. I have a history of working on this issue. And to your point, you know, we have to just acknowledge that the residual impact of fracking is enormous in terms of the impact on the health and safety of communities.

Yeah, all right. I mean, I don't know what else to tell you, ladies and gentlemen. I mean, she's just she said it. It's not just once. She said it repeatedly. They will they will commit because they're hostage to the radical left to getting rid of fracking or phasing it out again. Their words don't take my word for it. Just listen to them. If you don't like fracking, you don't like cheap gasoline, you don't like cheap fossil fuels, and you want to pay more for energy, then listen, I'm just being candid.

That's your candidate then. Yes, vote for Harrison. But if you're in the fracking business again, do you hate your job? You hate your career and you hate your life, then yes, vote for Harris Biden. I'll get rid of your job for you. You don't even have to quit. But please don't tell me, you know, the media people today that, oh, you know, the pences taken her comments out of context. There is no out of context.

She's crystal clear. She wants to get rid of fracking, period. Full stop. End of story. Thank you very much. All right, moving on, another one of the highlights from last debate in last night's debate, again, Pence just did a phenomenal job. Did we not say right then we cover this on the show the other day when you and I addressed at the beginning, she does want me to stop Chestnutt turn my neck. Really?

I got to stop. That's just interesting for me. But I said to you, don't sleep on Mike Pence, the Wall Street cover, that Wall Street Journal story where everybody there are sharks. Mike Pence, Midwestern guy, you know, Kamala Harris, big city, San Francisco prosecutor. She's going to eat pense alive. I told you. I told you. The Wall Street Journal nailed it. We discussed it yesterday on yesterday's show. Do not sleep on my pants, pants is a skilled, skilled debater, a brilliant guy, a principled guy who has been through the back and forth before he destroyed Kamala Harris last night, any objective observer saw it.

Let's not play games.

Here's a highlight number two of last night's debate, folks, one of the things that's really bothered me and I feel I'm I feel open to say it now. I'm know off. I don't know if I'm supposed to or not, but I will anyway. I was invited up early to.

Hear the vice president's plan and the president's plan about the coronavirus when it first came on to our shores, I was invited up to the White House. I heard from the vice president directed in a small room. Ladies and gentlemen, anyone telling you anyone? That the president and vice president weren't on top of this early and didn't realize the severity of the situation. I don't care who it is is lying to you. I was up there early. I heard it from his mouth, right from straight from the vice president.

So I was probably three feet away from him. Don't tell me they didn't take it seriously, they laid out the plan, what they were going to do and they implemented it. They were following overseas in detail transmission rates. They were implementing a logistics chain for PPE and most importantly, something I said on FOX. And I'll say again here, which is rarely if ever covered. And I think you're only going to hear it here, but you need to hear it.

The former administrations, both Obama, Bush, Clinton, otherwise they had a different model of testing in the United States for potential pandemics, please understand what I'm about to tell you. And the vice president, when I when we spoke to him, it wasn't just me, it was others.

He laid out that the problem with the testing earlier was the infrastructure was set up wrong. Prior presidents and prior administrations had the CDC and others set up for a surveillance type system. In other words, they weren't set up for mass testing. Do you see the difference, Paula? I don't want to my head, but if I don't explain this, well, give me like a head not or throw something at me or something. You'll see like a paper come in the side of the screen, the system.

The United States was set up before with surveillance, meaning if, say, there was, God forbid, an Ebola outbreak, there would be one or two tests in a region that would go to the CDC and elsewhere that would set off bells and whistles. They would know the world was an outbreak and they would implement some type of local quarantine. They weren't set up to test everybody all the time that predated President Trump. Ladies and gentlemen, anybody who has any experience in this arena knows what I'm telling you is true.

We were not set up to test every American all the time. Trump was left with a surveillance system when the American public, due to the severity of this virus, pushed for a mass testing system, which candidly, I'm not sure was the right approach. But the president understood the fear and anxiety. They in literally months switched from a surveillance system to a mass testing system and changed the entire model. That makes sense. OK, good, Paul is giving me a head, not folks, I heard this months ago.

I've been trying to explain this on Fox and elsewhere on my show. It wasn't the president's fault. And when he figured out that we were just the surveillance testing model and not a model for hundreds of millions of tests in just three to four months, they switched the whole model over and changed it to a mass testing system because that's what the public wanted. You can deny that all you want. You just don't know what you're talking about. Now, Joe Biden claims to have a coronavirus plan is another thing that's bothered me if you actually read Joe Biden's coronavirus plan, it sounds awfully like Donald Trump's plan.

He says things in there that Donald Trump has already done and he acts like he made it up. We need a military person in charge of logistics to distribute vaccines and PPE. That's already happening. President Trump already appointed a military officer to do all this. We need more PPE. We already have that. There's no shortage of PPE. We need a rapid vaccine, did he miss operation warp speed, everything Joe Biden is saying he's going to do?

President Trump has already done. Ladies and gentlemen, just read the paperwork on Biden's plan. Trump has already done it. Finally. Finally. Vice President Mike Pence called Kamala Harris out on this, and this was, I think, the most devastating moment of the night. Check this out.

The reality is, when you look at the Biden plan, it reads an awful lot like what President Trump and I and our task force have been doing every step of the way.

And quite frankly, when I look at their plan that talks about advancing, testing, creating new people, developing a vaccine, it looks a little bit like plagiarism, which is something Joe Biden knows a little bit about or who that one stung.

So someone get a Band-Aid for that may require dissolvable stitches. Believe me, I'm at a place to talk about dissolvable stitches right now. That was brutal. It is Trump's plan. So you're going to elect the guy who's running on a plan you already have in place now with the guy currently in office and he's supposed to be some kind of change agent, the guy he's already running on Trump's plan. Did you read it again? I'm not telling you who to vote for.

Do what you want. If you're locked in for Biden, Harris, do what you want. I'm not here to do real smart people. You'll figure it out, but please stop lying. There are things you can disagree with Trump out there are about there are substantive differences between Biden and Trump, that's obvious. This is not one of them. Biden literally plagiarized Trump's plan, put it on his page and acted like he made it up. And I'm glad Pense finally fought back last night, I gave you some inside baseball there again, I'm pretty sure now it's OK to talk about it, but I heard this early.

Please stop saying the president and vice president weren't on top of this from day one. I heard it. I was there. You're just lying and making that up. And it's really cheap and disgusting. All right.

Here was the I think the glass the plagiarism line was probably the highlight of the night for a zinger on pure substance. I just want to say, you ever been to a Baptist church? Can I get an amen? Can I get an amen on this one? How long on this show have I been asking you, the listeners, Paula, Drew, Joe and everyone I've been saying it over and over. When is someone finally going to call out Biden Harris?

When are they going to call them out on their tax hiking plan? Just to be crystal clear on this, Joe Biden has pledged multiple times, as is Kamala Harris, to repeal the Trump tax cuts. The Trump tax cuts were tax cuts for every income bracket, meaning if you were in the middle class, that's an income bracket for liberals listening, you got a tax cut. Do you want to know the rates? I'll give you the rates.

If you were in the twenty five percent bracket, that's like the upper middle class, your rate was cut to twenty two percent. Your rate was twenty five percent of your income. It went down to twenty two percent for the liberals. I think that's a three percentage point cut. That means thousands of dollars a year were cut in your taxes. That's just the fact I'm not interested in your opinion on it. If you want dopy time, do it on your own time, not on my show.

You can you can look it up on the Internet yourself. Just go and put in a search engine, trump tax cuts, new rates, OK? If you're too stupid to do that, that's your problem. The lower middle class, your tax rate was 15 percent of your income. Trump cut it to 12 percent. That's another three percentage point cut. Biden has pledged over and over to get rid of those tax cuts, meaning if you are the middle class and lower middle class, the middle middle class or the upper middle class, your income taxes are going up by three percentage points of your income, which means likely thousands of dollars.

I'm really sorry. That's a fact that facts bother you. If they bother you, I'm just giving you the truth. If the truth hurts, then really go read fiction novels. I'm sure that some Stephen King book out there you'd like, but this is the hard reality. Finally, Mike Pence, I've been begging everyone associated with the Trump campaign to finally call them out on this. Amen. Last night, Mike Pence just annihilated Kamala Harris on this very question, and she looks absolutely clueless.

You want to talk about getting wrecked? Check this out.

Twenty one percent, biggest economic year in the history of this country. Thank you, Vice President Pence. Senator Harris.

Well, I mean that we saw enough of it in last week's debate, but I think this is supposed to be a debate based on fact and truth and the truth. And the fact is, Joe Biden has been very clear he will not raise taxes on anybody who makes less than four hundred thousand dollars a year. Repeal the Trump tax cut.

Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking well, speaking the important issue. The truth. Joe Biden said twice in the debate last week that he's going to repeal the Trump tax cuts, that was tax cuts that gave the average working family two thousand dollars in a tax break, every single senator, that is absolutely not true.

That is the only thing. Is he only going to repeal part of the Trump tax cuts?

If you don't mind letting me finish. We can have a conversation. OK, please. OK. Joe Biden will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than four hundred thousand dollars. She's lying. She's lying. I mean, she's lying. She knows she's lying. And here's a little trick I need you to know about Kamala Harris. Whenever she gets caught lying, she says, let's have a conversation about it. She does it all the time.

Put in a search engine. Kamala Harris, let's have a conversation. Any time she's caught in a lie, she says, let's have a conversation. So, again, I'm going to leave it with this because you're all very smart people. I mean, that even the liberals said, listen, some of you get it. I've had some good back and forth with you all on social media and on email to the decent ones, the losers, your hard pass on you.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of those. But, you know, that's a part of being a liberal. You just you know, you're the loser thing is this. You kind of like, embrace it, hug it. Folks, if you want your taxes to go up and you are a middle class earner in the United States, then Biden, Harris is your ticket. If you don't want your taxes to go up, then Trump and Pence are your ticket.

It's really that simple. Your taxes are going up. If Biden said, I don't care what income bracket you are in, the Trump tax cuts will be repealed, which means your taxes are going up. It's a matter of simple mathematical certainty. Your taxes are going up three. A minimum of three percentage points, meaning if you make fifty thousand dollars a year, you're going to be paying over a thousand dollars more in taxes a year. It's just a fact.

If that's what you want, then yes, vote for Biden, Harris. All right. That's my debate coverage from last night, that those were the highlights. I wanted to make sure I got back to you. Just a couple of things before we get to the interview, Michael Lynton. Don't go anywhere, folks. You're going to love this. This is the guy who wrote the article, The Coming Coup. We talk about the Democrats plans post Election Day for a street fight, not a legal one.

The interview is stunning. Paul Paul is not a huge fan of the interview shows. Paul, I love this one. She was listening again. And she's like, this is your best interview ever. So that's coming up. You're not going to want to miss that with Michael Anthon, but just a few notes before we get to that. Thank you all for picking up my book. Despite no publicity at all, I'll be doing it next week because of the surgical procedure I had done this week.

I didn't get to do any PR on the book. The book went up to number 20 on Amazon. It's called Follow the Money. And I just want to read to you quickly here just the line from one of the first reviews that came in. You know, there's a chapter on Barack Obama's fixer, Kathryn Ruemmler, you know, his fixer. And like I told you, if if you don't know the story of Kathryn Ruemmler, Obama's fixer, then you don't know the Spygate story.

She's involved in all of this. She was in the White House during the IRS scandal, the Benghazi scandal, the Secret Service scandal. She was there for Spygate. She then left. She went and represented one of Mueller's key witnesses in the Spygate scandal who set up a meeting. She represented Susan Rice. She represented the Clintons. She represented the DNC and their defense against the dossier. Ladies and gentlemen. How does Obama's fixer keep coming up in this case?

If you haven't seen this chapter, I promise you it's going to blow your mind. One of the reviews, a guy said, I'm still shaking my head over the details. Here's another one just quick from Amazon this morning. He says the chapter on Obama's fixer was the most interesting and rather scary. The woman, Kathy Ruemmler, ran interference for Obama not just from possible negative outside sources, but also from inside the White House. Read the book.

You'll see that chapter is and it reads like a like a police file, kind of like my original book, Spygate. You don't have to read it in order. Their individual chapters that act as individual stories about all these players like the Obama fixer. I promise you're not going to know the whole Spygate story until you see this. It's really I'm very proud of the book and I appreciate you all bumping it up to 20 on Amazon. I was hoping to crack the top 10, but it's been a rough week.

Maybe next week we get a little a little bit more publicity. And finally, before we go, I just want to thank the doctors in the staff yesterday at Sloan Kettering. Thank you so much. You were all total professionals and Dr. Singh who remove the tumor, managed to get the whole thing out. So the prognosis is good, really good. Either way, I'm optimistic. I feel great. And I want you to think I'm just doing this because, you know, I had nothing to do.

I'm doing because I want to be here. I feel good. If I didn't, I wouldn't do a show. You don't deserve that, but I feel great. Dr. Singh is an amazing guy and I want to thank Dr. Steve as well. You know who you are for help and get this all together. I mean, think about it, folks. It was just, what, two weeks ago, right, that I found that I had a tumor in my neck and it's already been removed.

So I really appreciate people helping me out. It was a really, you know, troubling moment in my life. And you all made it easy. So thank you so much. And to all the doctors, the staff, the nurses as well. And to Jean, the nurse probably don't watch my show, but you were so nice. I appreciate you taking care of us yesterday as well. All right, folks, don't go anywhere. I got this interview.

Michael Hanton, it's going to blow your mind. It may scare you a little bit. I'm sorry, but you need to be warned. All right. Stay tuned.

Coming up next, so, folks, I've been getting a lot of requests to have this gentleman on my show, Mr. Michael Lambton. Why? Because I did a show called The Coming Coup about the Democrats plans post election if Donald Trump wins.

It's frightening, very frightening, and I'm not trying to scare you, but as I've said repeatedly, I'm trying to warn you. Information is power. Ignorance is not bliss. Michael Anton expose the left in his article, the coming to that show went viral, the article went viral afterwards.

And I've had a clamoring from people asking me to get Mr. Michael Anton on the show to talk about his article, The Coming Coup and what the Democrats devastating, destructive, unnerving plans are after the election, the event Donald Trump wins. It is scary stuff, but we need to know today somebody may express VPN ladies and protect your online activity from prying eyeballs today. Get a VPN. Don't wait. Go to express VPN, dotcom MANGINO coming up soon.

You know, I do these intros, by the way. Always I know probably annoying say it so much. But after the interview, because I like to give you kind of a heads up of what the interviewee is going to say. He says some stuff about our military, what's going on with our military, the perversion of the upper ranks of our military by politicians, not them trying to influence military leaders, that's really scary in this interview. And we need to all pay attention to don't miss a word of it.

All right. We have a few sponsors. Appreciate your Patience Today show brought to you by our friends at Teater. I can't say enough about Teater. They have an inversion table. That's the best in the business. I use it twice a day. What does it do? It uses gravity in your own body weight to invert you and decompress your spine and relieve pressure on your disks surrounding nerves. And for me, importantly, my shoulders and other joints as well, which have taken a beating.

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Now on to my interview with Mr. Michael Lanterne, author of the piece, the famous piece Now The Coming Coup. All right. Extremely pleased to welcome to the show one of the most popular guests on this show ever, whether he knows it or not, because I already covered his now famous article, I might add, famous for all the wrong reasons. That may be a fair assessment, but famous Michael Anton, lecturer at Hillsdale College, author of The Coming Coup, an article I covered on my show, which Michael went nuclear def con.

Seven hundred and four hundred and twenty two thousand six hundred twenty two people freaked out. So thanks for coming to the show. We appreciate it.

I appreciate it. But we also want to add, folks, before we get into Michael about the coming queue. And again, we're not trying to scare you. I'm just trying to warn you, Michael has a book out. It's a must read the stakes. Chapter seven is particularly good if you want to be aware of what's ahead. We'll get into this a little bit later. There it is. Check it out. The stakes, Michael, Anton, go pick it up.

This guy knows what he's talking about. So, Michael, let's get right into it. I've met you somewhere before.

I don't know where I know you're from, but I definitely know you have seen you on television, on Fox and elsewhere.

Someone sent me this article and then another person in another person. Then I'm sitting there preparing for my show. About two weeks ago, the articles in the American Mind will put it in the show notes folks. It's called The Coming Coup by Michael here. And the article is frightening. And I started getting some traffic from other sources of mine that this stuff you're writing about here is is real and it's something to be concerned about. Give me the gist of it.

And if you could if you could start with this meeting with these Democrat bigwigs where they came out of this with these war game scenarios. And I hit on that, I think my audience would really appreciate it.

That was when the bell rang in my head. So before that, there were these pieces out in public that I started to hear and I would dismiss as crazy talk or just loose talk. So when Joe Biden two or three times said, you know, Trump, if he tries to stay in office, the military, they'll drag him out of there. And I thought it was extraordinary when the president considered invoking the Insurrection Act and the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs both publicly said that they opposed it.

Now, it's one thing to oppose your boss, the commander in chief. Everybody has the right to do that. But the right way to do it is you do it in private. You give the president your advice privately, and then you follow his order, whatever it is. Or if you can't follow his order, you resign. Well, you don't do is publicly essentially blackmail the president by saying, don't give that order because I won't follow it.

I thought that's that's strange. I mean, we don't that doesn't happen in our constitutional system. It's not supposed to. And it all came together when this so-called Transition Integrity Project leaked their report to the media. And the idea was about one hundred of these Democratic grandees, senior Democratic politicians and appointed officials and a lot of never trump former Republicans, former conservatives. So an anti Trump group, all of them anti Trump, even though some of them represent themselves as Republicans and conservatives.

They got together and they played a so-called war game about the outcome of the election with a bunch of scenarios. And the one the. Really stuck out was one of the scenarios was President Trump wins the Electoral College clearly, but loses the popular vote. Same thing that happened in twenty sixteen, according to the US Constitution. If you win the Electoral College, you are the president. End of story. The person playing Biden in that scenario was John Podesta, former Clinton White House chief of staff, and Hillary Clinton campaign chair from twenty sixteen.

And he refused to concede the election and his his reasoning, as Biden was, I don't think my voters will accept a concession. So I'm going to hang in there and I'm going to get on the phone to every Democratic governor in the country that's in a state Trump won and say don't certify Trump electors to the Electoral College. You've got to send Biden people to make sure we win this. And otherwise there's going to be a stalemate and we will throw it into the house.

There was fanciful scenarios about California and some other West Coast states maybe seceding from the union or it is. So as soon as I saw that, my first question to myself was why would they talk about this in public? Right. If you're doing a conspiracy, first rule of conspiracies.

I know you've said on the show you don't talk to my audience loves this right at first because you've got a reason to talk about it. And I thought, well, of course, reason must be get the public ready for it. They're trying to say in advance, hey, American public, you are going to see potentially Trump seeming to win the election because the Electoral College map will be over 270 for him and yet not the president on January 20th and even perhaps be forcibly removed from the White House.

One of the most chilling examples of Cuttack that I saw was two former army officers, senior army officers. They're retired now and they're active in the democratic progressive think tank world, wrote an open letter to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying, Dear Mr. Chairman, get ready to use the eighty second Airborne Division to drag Trump out if he refuses to leave. And I thought, I mean, that's that's really that's crazy talk. That's seditious talk. That is mutiny.

That is a violation of the military oath. But this is how far these guys have gone. And I speculate that they're saying all this in public to get the American people ready for a scene on the TV cameras where the president's literally being let out after he seemingly won the election. And they want to be able to say to the American public, don't worry about it. You're not seeing a coup on our part. You're seeing us prevent an attempted coup on his part.

And this is really his fault. So get ready. This is his fault. And all I did in writing that article was, quote, their own words back at them, including Hillary Clinton's infamous statement that Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances. And for this article came out about a month ago, a little bit less than a month ago.

I think it came out September 4th, the Friday before Labor Day. And for weeks, nobody talked about why the left didn't talk about it. They didn't stand up and go, this is crazy, we're not doing this. We disavow it. And then it got I gather it got enough traction in the last week or so that they really started to freak out and say, OK, it's time to launch a counteroffensive in which they're doubling down and saying Trump is trying to steal the election.

Trump is going to try to stay even if he loses. And this is all going to be his fault. America, get ready. He's dangerous to our democracy. I just scratch my head and say, you guys are the ones talking about removing him even if he wins the Electoral College. But this is how brazen they've got.

This isn't even a 180. This is like a three sixty where you wind up back where you were and then you find out that you expose the conspiracy. They're blaming now on you as you're standing. I mean, I find this bizarre. You know, when I mentioned your rules of the conspiracy, I said, well, rule number one of the conspiracy is, well, don't talk about the conspiracy. So you're right. Why are they talking about.

I agree. That's to soften us up with body blows. But rule number two, I said if I'm if I'm characterizing this wrong, please let me know. Once you're exposed, just blame it on your opponent, which shockingly is what they're trying to do. Now, Michael, my face was on the article about your article. They took a screenshot of my show where I talked about your article, these lefty lunatics, and they were like, look at these crazy Republicans talking about a coup.

We're not talking about a coup. We're talking about your coup. You do that, leave the expletives out. This is insane.

And this is something I talk about in my book. And I gave it a name that maybe will catch on and maybe it will not. But I called it the celebration parallax, a little fancy term. And Parallax is something that is the same fact pattern. And you look at it from this angle, it looks like one thing. If you look at it from that angle, it looks like something else. So we may say we're going to use the military to drag Trump out of office.

Everybody says, bravo, you're protecting our democracy. When you or I say, holy cow, they're going to use the military to drive Trump out of office. They say you guys are crazy conspiracy theorists from the fever swamps making things up. Same fact pattern. I'm quoting their words back to them when I say it. I'm a lunatic and it isn't happening when they say it's a glorious defense of American democracy.

Just to be clear and to get Michael's book, folks, is called The Stakes Highly Recommended. Please pick it up today. I'm. On Barnes Noble bookstores everywhere worth your time, believe me, juicy material in here, let's just to be clear with the audience, we're not talking about a scenario where I'm a Trump supporter.

I don't hide that. I'm not a journalist. I'm an opinion guy. When I talk about a scenario where Donald Trump loses the election, of course, he has to leave.

And the story we're talking about a scenario where Donald Trump clearly wins the electoral vote. I just want to be clear. Everybody understands that this is this scenario still. If there's a popular vote lost, which there is no popular vote presidency, that this is the scenario where the Democrats are talking about, you know, dragging Donald Trump out of an office he legitimately won. I just want to be clear. We're talking about this, correct?

That's the that's certainly what the tip report. That report outline. That was the scenario, an electoral college win victory, which means a win and a popular vote loss, which, as you say, is symbolic but meaningless. Write it. You win constitutionally. You win the presidency in the Electoral College period. End of story. Democrats have long hated the Electoral College and want to get rid of it because a big blue cities on the on the blue coasts, they know that they have a popular vote advantage over middle America and rural America and even those parts of blue states that have a lot of red voters in, but that they love to have it just be a popular vote.

And think about it. If you're a Democrat, then the popular vote is the game. All you got to do is campaign in L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, New York and a handful of other places. You don't have to go anywhere else. Pay attention to anywhere else. It's a dream for them, but they have managed to do that legally. And so they're trying to do is delegitimize the Electoral College and say, well, the popular vote really does express the will of the people.

So even if we go around the Electoral College or we game the Electoral College or we what's called are called faithless electors, in other words, let's say the president wins, I'll pick a state, Wisconsin. But the Democratic governor says I'm not certifying any Trump electors from Wisconsin. I'm going to send a bunch of my people to vote for Biden. That's a violation of the essentially of the way the Electoral College is supposed to work. But that's what they're thinking about doing.

That's what they're openly talking about doing. I'm just quoting their own words back, that's all. Yeah, I know.

And I appreciate you doing like I said, your article caught my eye immediately. You know, Michael, I see your article here again, folks. I'm reading it right now. You wonder what I'm not scrolling my phone, reading people's text. I'm reading Michael's article. I want to scroll through it. It's quicker than paper. It's in the American mind. It's called the coming coup went viral almost instantly for all the right reasons. I see your story here as a media story as well.

And what I mean by that is you and I both know we've been around this game for a long time, that if this was a story where Barack Obama was running for re-election and a bunch of Republican luminaries, whoever they may be, Karl Rove, a bunch of former Reagan advisers, Ed Rollins and others were around Wargaming in a project funded by the Koch brothers. And one of the conclusions they came to was secession and the eighty second airborne. We'd be activating the guillotine tomorrow.

There'd be calls for treason charges. The media would be openly humiliating them. Karl Rove and others would be kicked off TV. Of course, none of them have anything to do with any of this. But these guys you're talking about in this transition integrity project. And if you could describe in your answer a little bit of who they are and who's funding them as well, these are not small timers talking about this. They're not. And the media stories about how we're crazy for covering these Democrat luminaries discussing this crap.

Now, these are very famous senior people, like I said, John Podesta was was one of the ones there and a lot of these these former Republicans who are there. So who's funding them? It's kind of murky. I got attacked for pointing out that George Soros is one of the funders. Nobody said you're wrong. In fact, one of the people attacking me said, well, actually, you're right. He is one of the funders, but it's just not right.

You can't talk about George Soros anymore. Again, celebration, Parallax, if you're on the left and you say George Soros is a champion of democracy and liberalism because of all the money he gives, that's great. Somebody on the right says, why is George Soros giving money to district attorneys around the country who let rioters go without bail? Then you're a bad person for talking about it.

And that that's when I talk about it again. By the way, when they tell me not to talk about something, I talk about it four more times just to rub it in. But you see also this media angle on this how if this were Republicans, you would never be welcomed in polite company again. You'd probably be you'd probably be under investigation. Well, the media is part of it.

In fact, some members of the media were part of the tip I got. I got attacked also by a guy I never even heard of. He claims he knows me, but I don't know him. Named Edward Luce from the Financial Times, wrote a pretty nasty piece about me in the Financial Times, and he admitted, well, he was at the war game for the tip. He was a participant playing the media like. So you're invested in this.

It's all hand in glove. The media is not covering the story. They're part of the story. And their role in the last week has been very clear. It's to publish piece after piece saying ringing the alarm, saying, oh, no, Trump and his Republican allies are getting ready to steal the election. So you saw there are many pieces. But I'll point out one big, long article. I forgot the author in The Atlantic Monthly. This is the same Atlantic Monthly, by the way, that posted the completely fake, scurrilous story a couple of weeks ago, saying that Trump, the president, disparaged Marines when he was in France for the 100th anniversary of World War One.

I wasn't there, but I don't believe it for a second. Anyway, the same magazine publishes this. He's getting ready to steal the election. Everybody, when see exactly what they're doing, whatever. As Tucker Carlson likes to say, and I can't stop repeating whatever they accuse you of doing, they're doing whatever they are up to. They project that out and say, no, I'm all my enemies are doing the following when that's exactly what they're doing.

Yeah, I mean, we already saw this with the whole collusion hoax where we now know for the record that it was, in fact, this Democrat infrastructure with weaponized assets and intel in the FBI at the upper level who are colluding with someone the FBI themselves deemed a national security threat from Russia. Not my words. It's the FBI's own words, whether whether he was a Russian agent or not. I was not the FBI investigating him. I'm just telling you, the FBI is investigating a guy working with their team, which is bizarre.

How seriously do you take this threat?

I mean, is this now you write that at some point when I was scrolling through you about how this was leaked to the media, I happen to agree with your implication this way. This was probably leaked somewhat intentionally again, to soften the body blow there. But how seriously do you take them?

I mean, say it is a close election and it all hinges on Wisconsin or even Minnesota, which appears to be in play. And it's two sixty nine to sixty nine say it comes down to Maine, Maine, Maine, too. You know, they divvy it up by congressional district. I mean, how serious do you take this threat?

Do you think they would actually do that, you know, before the covid and before the riots and everything wave. If you remember back to February of this year when the world seemed calm, the economy was great and it looked like the president was cruising to a pretty easy reelection. I had a dinner and a colleague of mine said that he could not see the left under any circumstances accepting another Trump win. They would have to stop it somehow, fill the streets, tie it up in the courts or something.

And as soon as he said that, I thought, wow, that's so obvious. And yet why didn't I think of it? It's so insightful. It's just a bell rang. So I think I take this very seriously. I think he's right. They can't accept another Trump win now. I think they would prefer to do it. First of all, they prefer to have him just lose now, have Biden win legitimately, and then they don't have to worry about it.

Second of all, if they can't do that, I think they would prefer to game the system in close states, either through mail, in ballots or the the what always happens in a closed state with a Democratic governor and a Democratic secretary of state. Oh, the elections down to a handful of ballots. Oh, look, we found a box of ballots over here. Let's count these. Well, magically, it puts Biden ahead. Right then let's certify the count right now and give those 20 electoral votes to Biden.

Right. I think they'd prefer to make it look like a legitimate win. If they can't do that, if the if the either electorally or otherwise the margin is so large, then I think they go to these this plan, see if they can pull it off. Now, it's an open question if they can pull it off. So after the both Biden and these military officers and others started talking about using the military, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs had to come out and to his credit, said the military will play, quote, no role, unquote, in the upcoming election.

I note that President Trump's former national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, who retired as a three star general in. Twenty eighteen has been making the rounds on his book and has been asked this, including MSNBC, CNN type places where that are very hostile to Trump and he has said the military has got to maintain complete neutrality, be apolitical and not get involved in any way. I find myself to what extent I have influence with the military via current officers or former officers.

I know I have urged all my military friends to play no role and also to tell their friends in active duty, look, you need to protect the reputation and the integrity of the US military. You need to make sure that all your fellow officers do not get involved if they're given a dumb order or urge to do something that they know violates their oath, that is unconstitutional. They need to just stand down. I mean, the US Army is a cherished institution.

I mean, the US Army literally predates the revolution. It's older than the United States itself formally to tarnish its reputation in this way, I think is is terrible. And the people talking like this to former army officers, I think they're doing a horrible disservice to an institution that they presumably serve loyalty and love.

You know, Michael, it's really hard to believe that you and I to reasonably educated men are having this conversation. It's troubling. It really is like this is never a conversation. Gives me no joy. I'm not in this for the clicks or the downloads. I told my audience, I'm not trying to scare you. I just would have never in a in an I mean, in any length of time, a millennia. I would have never thought I was having a conversation either about a presidency and a campaign for the presidency being spied on by our own domestic spy agencies.

Either we're talking to Michael Anton again. The stakes go pick it up today. Amazon, Barnes and Noble bookstores everywhere you believe in, in a country as great as wealthy and prosperous and with such fidelity to institutions like the United States of America that a conversation about using our military to remove a duly elected president would be absurd. But as we said in the last segment, these are higher ups in the upper echelons of the Democrat Party actually having these discussions.

And one of the things that worried me about your piece, the coming coup, about what the Democrats are planning is, I mean, being a former Secret Service agent, the institutions we had there I know are stable. I know the people. I know the man who's ever elected president. They're going to secure and the story. But what does worry me a little bit and gives me some pause is during this coronavirus threat we've had and obviously we've had a lot of deaths from it as well.

Things I thought would never happen happened to people going to jail, being tasered for not putting a mask on in public. I mean, business owners being shut down. Does it give you a little bit of pause? This is not meant to be any knock on our institutions, but it does give me a bit of pause here that this happened in the United States of America. Does that make you worry a little bit more?

Yeah, I think our institutions are more fragile, a little more wobbly than they've been in a long time, if not ever. I think that in particular, the military brass isn't quite as apolitical as it used to be in part eight years of Obama. I've been asked this in interviews and people say, well, Obama, he purged the officer corps. Not exactly. It's more subtle than that. As you know, the military promotion system is up or out, meaning if you don't get the next promotion, you need to retire and they can then carefully select who's with the program, who's on our side and who isn't.

And let's make sure we get rid of the people who aren't with the program and only promote up the ranks people who are. And so the current military brass, especially at the general and admiral level, is much more favorable to what I call in the book, ruling class interests, coastal interests, banking interests, tech finance, the big blue cities, the people who run the big blue cities. They're much more in that vein. We just saw, for instance, today General Stanley McChrystal, who was fired in twenty ten by Obama for pretty I don't know if it was viciously but harshly criticizing the Obama administration and the vice president came out and endorsed Joe Biden.

So the old days, H.R. McMaster, when I worked for him, I remember his first speech to the NSC. He said, I'm an apolitical guy. I don't even vote. I've never voted since he got into the Army. So that's obviously pretty long gone. I do think, though, or at least I hope at least I hope that first of all, if there's something fishy going on in the period between the election and January 20th, Donald Trump is still the president, according to the Constitution.

And the only person who can give an order to the military is the commander in chief. And he's not going to give them an order saying, please remove me from office. OK, that's point one. Point two, I would like to think that if an order or if an urging comes from outside the chain of command to remove the president and the military is thinks he won or thinks, look, it's an open question right now because we still have three states having certified and we don't know who won the Electoral College.

They'll just say, I'm not following it. I'm not going to do that. I know what my oath says, I know what the Constitution says, I know what is in the best interest of my institution. So for this to work for what some of these Democrats have talked about to work, they've got to get the military to salute and all of that order. And I'm not convinced that that will happen. And let me just say one other thing.

I think it's important that I haven't really I've only said this to a couple of people, but I need to write it up. The fact of the matter is what the left says they fear, which is Donald Trump saying to the military, OK, I lost, but I'm giving you an order now to keep me in power. Use force to keep me in power is an impossibility on two levels. One is, I know the man. He's never going to give that order.

If he really loses, he's going to leave. The second thing, though, is Donald Trump for and I don't mean this as a knock on him, but what have we seen in the last four years? He's the president of the United States. His control over his own executive branch bureaucracy is very tenuous at best because there's a huge resistance inside of it that doesn't like him and doesn't want to implement his program. There is no way in hell that Donald Trump could give an order to the military saying use force to keep me in president even though I lost the election and they will follow it and enforce that.

There is no way they will all mutiny if he gives them such an illegal order.

Well, Michael, you almost made that point yourself in the first segment where Donald Trump, who is the duly elected president, didn't even give an order, but mentioned invoking a perfectly constitutional insurrection act. And the defense secretary's already opening his mouth in public, suggesting to the commander in chief, that is not a good idea because he's I mean, I don't know, confused about the chain of command. I'm not she didn't even invoke the Insurrection Act. So I think you make your own point that, of course, they're not going to let the president lose the stay.

And that's just an absurdity. I know. But this goes back to the paradox of the left. They go back and forth weekly, sometimes daily. The president's a fascist. He's a he's a monarch in waiting. He's running an oligarchy with his little crew. They do it. And then the next day they paint them as entirely incompetent. A buffoon like the book, the Bob Woodward book, he's either goes back and forth from being a moron in the press to being the most calculating like Lex Luthor genius ever.

And I think that's more a reflection of the media's own stupidity than it is anything Trump is doing. You know, it reminds me, I was a kid in the eighties, so I witnessed Ronald Reagan's presidency from grade school through high school, and he got essentially the same criticism, bumbling dimwit actor who's a figurehead for AIDS, who actually run the country and evil genius, fascist tyrant to try to have it both ways. But in addition to the secretary of defense, remember General Milley, who accompanied the president the day that I cleaned out Lafayette Square with these huge protests, had taken over essentially right in front of the White House.

And General Milley later had to apologize. I shouldn't have been there. I violated the the apolitical nature of the military. So is it can you imagine General Milley taking an order from Donald Trump, Donald Trump calling him up and saying, OK, I lost, but I decided I want to be president for four more years. It's time to use the military to crack down. And General Milley said, yeah, I'll do that. It's impossible. All the former all the retired four stars out there, Mattis, McChrystal, many others have announced their opposition to Trump and they have enormous influence within the military.

They're going to be on the phone immediately, telling everybody they know still in the service, don't do this, but they don't even need to do that. Nobody's going to follow an order like that. It's just it's I don't even actually I don't know, because the left actually believe this is a possibility. Or do they put it out there for propaganda purposes? Maybe it's a combination of both. But anyone serious shouldn't believe that Trump has even a one percent chance of staying in power illegally on the backs of the military.

We're talking to Michael Lambton, author of the book The Stakes and the terrific article The Coming Coup, which if you haven't read yet and you listen to my show, you've made a huge mistake. You must read and listen. I can't give homework. I'm not the school teacher. I'm just suggesting you all need to read this. So, Michael, in your article, you talk about this transition integrity. Don't you love the names? By the way?

This is this should be called the Transition Chaos Project and the Promote Misinformation Project. But it's always some name, like the We Love America Project as they destroy America and teach a critical race theory and all this other Americans.

My suggestion for its name should be ensure Biden becomes president by any means necessary.

God, I like that. I'm changing that. So the Transition Integrity Air Quotes project, you are one of the first people I saw put out that they discussed in their in their manifesto, whatever it may be, having a potentially a street fight, not a legal one after the election. Now, I put that comma, not a legal one because that's important because on this and a lot of people use the term street fight, all types of different ways, this courtroom is going to be a street.

They don't really mean a street fight. They really mean a street fight. It says a street fight, not a legal one. What exactly do you think their plans are they antifa, BLM type rights to create enough chaos where people are just like I've had enough Joe Biden as president, no matter what I think their plans is to track one is there definitely will be a legal fight.

I mean, we've read stories about assembled a huge team of lawyers, I think. Six hundred at last count. It may be more than that now to be suing in individual states that are close and to be suing suing in the federal courts to ensure a favorable victory for Joe Biden. But I think the other thing they're going to want to do and the left is good at this and unfortunately much better at this than the right is, is fill the streets with protesters.

Now, my own view is that it's in their interests. All those protests were peaceful, but the powerful visual of a packed National Mall or a packed Times Square or something like that with a camera from above showing just a sea of people carrying signs saying, you know, Trump must go, Trump must go oust the dictator or whatever to put massive pressure on public opinion and on our institutions until. And then the message will be to the president, look, this is untenable.

Yeah. Who cares if you want or if you think you want. The country is ungovernable to you now. No one will follow your orders and the people won't accept you and you're seen as illegitimate. So for the good of the nation, you just need to step down. I think that's what they mean by street fight. Although the events of twenty twenty have shown when the left fills the streets, things don't always stay peaceful. I'm not sure the left leftist leaders can control their own shock troops when they decide they want to break windows and burn things and loot.

So anything can happen once the once once the protesters are out there taking notes as your talk, because I haven't got to ask my questions because you so much stuff you say is interesting.

I'm taking notes on new questions. All right. Let me take a quick break here. Michael Anton, again, author of the new great book, The Stakes, and author of the terrific piece, The American Mind The Coming Coup. Frightening stuff, folks. We've got to be on top. We'll be right back with Michael Anton.

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All right. Welcome back. Michael Anton again, author the great piece in the American Mind, The Coming Coup about the Democrats plan for chaos post-election.

Michael, you mentioned something, something about the Democrats shock troops. I did an interview with Dinesh D'Souza on my show twice as matter. Dinesh is just a fascinating guy. I know you. You know who he is.

And he's always talked about this to how the Democrats and socialists and communists have always had their shock troops always. And the shock troops are the front line chaos agents, which cause enough chaos and threat of fear that the people just need. It almost becomes. All right. We've had enough. Whatever you say goes at this point, just give us back some semblance of normal normalcy. Haven't we already seen that, though, with Antifa and Bellmore after the Floyd incident, which was roundly condemned by everyone across every single possible political spectrum, ideology, whatever you whatever it may be, they've unleashed the shock troops anyway.

And I think in my humble opinion, I think that got out of control, too, and it only slowed down when the polls started to change.

You know, what I've noticed is graffiti and also protest signs that some of the anti BLM and other types, Tarion in the wording is, are you tired yet? That sounds like blackmail. Talk to me to America. Are you tired yet? Yeah, this is exhausting. We've shut down your city. You can't get to work. You can't get back. Your favorite restaurant has been burned to the ground or whole sections that. Look, I'm in D.C., whole sections of D.C. for a long time.

We're closed. Some of many of them are still at least closed to vehicle traffic stores, boarded up either because their windows were broken or because the owners didn't want to risk it and just decided to put plywood up in the city's kind of a ghost town compared to what it used to be. I think that is part of the strategy is to make people get tired and say, all right, I want some semblance of normal back. So what is it that you want and what do I need to give you to get you to stop?

That's part of it for sure. And then see that. I can see that after the election, where you have antifa in this in my town where I live in Martin County, Florida, has a great sheriff and a great police department. Luckily, we haven't had any civil unrest. But I know my neighbors and I can only imagine post-election if this coming coup they're talking about, if the shock troops they have are unleashed here, what, two or three weeks of not being able to buy food, not be able to travel on roads, having people pulled out of cars and literally beaten up graffiti all over.

I can only imagine the effect on the collective psyche of my neighborhood. It would have to be devastating.

It would be devastating. And that's one of the most disappointing things. About 20 20 to me is how varied law enforcement response has been. Now, in some places, law enforcement has really stood tall and said, we're not going to tolerate this here in Florida. It seems to me to be one of the bright spots where you've had a lot of local county sheriffs, but also Miami City cops just saying we're not we're not putting up with looting and rioting and we're going enforce the law.

There's a lot of other parts of the country, though, where the mayors, the governors, the sheriffs, the DEA is the police chiefs have held back. I think some of that to deliver it. And some of it is police chiefs thinking, you know, if my mayor is not going to support me, how can I risk my officers lives going in to enforce the law? And then officers could get injured, get harmed or end up being charged with crimes by days who are out of control?

That's the worst thing. About 20, 20 is people defending themselves, defending their property in a lot of parts of America, then getting arrested and getting the book thrown at them. I mean, the McCluskey's Kyle Rittenhouse and I can't remember the guy's name, Jake, somebody I think this was in Louisville who was attacked his own business. His father was attacked, defended himself. The local D.A. investigated and said, I'm not going to charge this guy.

This is clearly self-defense. So the feds swoop in and charge him. He gets dock's further attacks and protests. The poor guy ends up committing suicide. The law enforcement really needs to step up here and do its job, which is to promote law and order, not not attack people, arrest people, harass people for exercising their lawful, constitutional and natural right to self-defense. You know, Michael, once your piece, The Coming Coup went went viral, I saw a number of other people catch on and some of them been writing about this.

And I think you just kind of nailed the essence of what the Democrats are planning post-election. Maybe that's why your piece got as much attention, was really well written. I mean, I've read it three or four times before. I covered it on my show, but I saw a number of people afterwards cite your work. And one of them I saw, I believe, was in Revolver. I'm not really sure, but it mentioned something I found fascinating, how the tactics being used now by people like in the Transition Integrity Project in that group.

Stanley McChrystal, who you mentioned before, former military officer, he's got a group called that he's advising called Defeat Disinfo. Again, another group, defeat this. And that actually should be called promote this info. But one of the the core takeaways from their piece was it's frightening how these military and intel tactics we've used overseas to foment revolutions, color revolutions overseas resemble quite nicely the same tactics being used here to attack Donald Trump. Get the media on your side, claim the leaders is a legitimate point out.

And Sesson character flaws paint his opponent as put him at the top of the totem pole of moral integrity, street violence, street chaos. Get the military on your side. I mean, kind of sounds like what's happening now is very similar.

It sounds like when you mention revolver, they covered this specifically, I think, with greater depth than anybody. How the similarities between this and a color revolution in Eastern Europe and in the former states that used to be part of the Soviet Union have been unfolding. If people have asked me, I think, what's the specific difference between a color revolution and a coup? The best answer I can come up with is a color revolution is when you can get it done, get the leader ousted without recourse to the military.

The military either doesn't just stands down, but it doesn't actively it may be on your side. It may be neutral, but it doesn't do anything. And a coup more strictly is when force is required in the military as an institution has to get involved. The reason I use the word coup in my piece is because the people talking about it, we're openly talking about using the military, including former military officers themselves. We're openly talking about using the military.

So you want to call me a crazy conspiracy theorist. You know, you guys are the ones talking like this.

It isn't me, Michael, having some you've been at this game longer than I have. But having become as my podcast audience guru, you put a target on your back and that's OK. I don't like it, but it's OK. It's part of the business. I've got a lot of experience with this. You know, when I had a source early on tell me almost four years ago now in a Dallas hotel room that Spygate was real, I left them off.

I being a former federal agent, I thought, sir, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. No, it's not possible. There are too many guardrails. I get it off. My wife is there. I'm having this conversation. I'm talking. I'm like this. I'm looking at her going to point at a phone like this guy's telling me some crazy stuff. It turns out the guy was right. I wound up, of course, following up with him, became a valued source, wound up writing three books on it.

And this is the left's tactic. It's a pernicious, devious little tactic when people like you and I, when your piece went viral, when the truth gets out there, what they do is they want to put a tin foil cap on you, make you look like the crazy one. And just so you know, and I know you know this, there's nothing you can do to escape that. You can quote them. You can take videos of them saying it.

It will always the story will always be about you. I think you're figuring that out now, right?

Yeah, I know. And they their their dominance, their overwhelming dominance of the mainstream media, cable news, the nightly news, the newspapers, social media means that the message I mean, thank God we have venues like you, Fox News and some and many others to get the message out. But we got to admit that these channels are a minority of the bandwidth. It's pumping out a message I just mentioned now because why not? I even got a death threat out of this from a guy who was co-chairman and co-founder of the tip.

It was a veiled death threat. He compared me to some Nazi who got shot by firing squad in nineteen ninety five for just for having written articles that, yeah, I covered it on my show.

Don't worry, I took care of him.

I mean, I just want everybody. No, Nils Gilman of the Berggruen Institute and his tweet is still up there so. Yeah. And he as well, you know, totally fair game. I am not calling for violence. I just think the guy is a scumbag and he got all these people to come out, all these blue checkmark, big names came out and defended Nils and even said, Anton, you should apologize to him. I find that incredibly brazen.

The guy tweets a death threat about me. And I'm supposed to say sorry to him. I mean, that's.

No, no, no, no. I wasn't going to let that happen. I know you are. And either. You're a pretty tough guy, Paul. I remember that show we found out about this tweet. Someone said that to us the next day. I savage that son of a whatever.

No, I wasn't gonna let that happen again and again, just my experience of playing fake tough guy. Listen, it stinks to get attacked. I know what I'm on the receiving end of it all the time, all day, all the time. The only way to fight back is to just fight back viciously. That's it. IVC Only if you don't, they just do it again. And I found with me, I've even been told by some people, maybe dial it down.

No, thanks. I'm not I'm not doing that. I'm really sorry you're going to attack me and my character because I exposed you and turned out to be right in the Spygate thing. You expose possibly one of the most threatening aspects of this upcoming election and warned people about it using their own words and then they're attacking you. It's absurd. Let me take a quick break again. We're talking to Michael Anton, author of the terrific book again. Got it right here.

There's a cover, folks. You can check it out. An American flag burning on the cover there, sadly, right at the front because we're in a lot of trouble. His book, The Stakes, is about literally the stakes of what's coming up in this upcoming election. Going to talk a bit about his book after this break. And I want you to check out his article as well. A very important piece, The Coming Coup in the American Mind.

We'll be right back. All right.

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Now back to the final segment with a terrific guest, our friend Michael Aton. All right, welcome back, Michael Lance. And again, author of the upcoming book The Stakes. Michael, so we want to make sure we get this in. I have a couple of more questions about the coming cool article about your book, The Stakes America at the Point of No Return. Tell me about it. What inspired you to write it? What's your warning in it and what does it say about this upcoming election?

In part, what inspired me to write it is being born and raised in California, being on my mother's side in a fifth generation Californian. So going back all the way to the 19th century, my family's been there and seen what's happened to it as it's become a deep blue Democratic one party state where the left rules without opposition and can do whatever it wants. And I the popular image of California is the sparkling coasts and the great Yosemite Valley and the and the forests and all the wonderful natural beauty and the manmade amenities like the Golden Gate Bridge and Disneyland and the beaches.

And that's what people think when Hollywood, Silicon Valley people think that's California, that is California, but it's a fraction of California. The real California has become a dystopia for the middle class. The infrastructure is crumbling, home prices are through the roof and wages are low. So the worst of all possible worlds and people are fleeing in droves and back for the first time since eighteen fifty. When California became a state, it's almost certain to lose a congressional seat in the next sentence, this sorry census, because the population is finally declining.

And I was convinced in twenty sixteen that had the president, not one had Trump, not one, we would have had blue state politics from coast to coast, more or less forever. And I'm more convinced than ever that if we lose in twenty twenty that will happen. And I'm joined by a lot of people who now endorse this thesis and say, yeah, well, again, it's one of those things. If you're a Democrat, you go emerging Democratic majority.

This is great. We'll never lose again. But if I say it, they say, oh, conspiracy theory. This guy's a nut. He's he's there. He believes in the great replacement in all of this stuff, even though they say it. Well, the more immigrants we have, the more democratic it becomes. And immigration is the key to tipping America blue forever. So I think the president needs to get immigration under control for a lot of reasons, not least of which is national security, raising wages, tightening up the labor market, raising wages, especially in the bottom half of the economic ladder.

Right. Bankers wages don't aren't impacted by immigration, although Silicon Valley wages are by the by high end programs like the H-1B visa that undercut wages of coders and programmers in California and throughout the industry. But so I just think if we lose, if the president loses, we will see. First of all, we already know the Democrats have been threatening to do. And here's another example of that celebration, Parallax. They go out and say, we're going to add D.C. in Puerto Rico, we're going to pack the court and we're going to get rid of the filibuster.

And when the Republicans say so, you're going to add D.C. and Puerto Rico back to court and filibuster. They point at us and go, you're crazy. Right wing conspiracy fear mongers, right? I'm just saying, you guys told us you're going to do this. All we're doing is quoting your own words back to you. They want to do those things, but they want they don't want to alarm people about it in advance. So when we talk about it, they have to shout at us, whereas when they talk about it, they're just doing it to get their base fired up.

But I think they will at least attempt to do all that. And I think it could mean a USA that looks like New York or California where the Republican Party exists. It doesn't matter, can't win elections, can't really exercise power. And so the last break on blue power in the country is gone and they get to implement their program in full.

You know, I'm an eternal optimist. I know it doesn't seem serious. I could be down at times, but I do. I believe these things come in cycles, both micro and macro. But again, like John Maynard Keynes, who I generally revile. But he did have that expression, which is in the long run, we're all dead. If we're in the middle of a macro and that macro is on a trend, we're down for freedom.

You know, it doesn't mean much to you if it turns around after you're dead. And this is what worries me about what you're talking about and what you discuss in your new book. Here again, The Stakes by Michael Anton. If they do take the Senate with D.C. and Puerto Rico and by the way, Puerto Rico, it's not really a lock that they'd have to Democrats. Nonetheless, DC's a lock. There's no statistical tie. So let's say you get one Republican senator from Puerto Rico by a long shot.

So you still have three more on the Democrat side. And then you pack the court with, let's say, two more even while whatever, four more justices, whatever it may be that are that are diehard liberals. The problem then, Michael, is we get this. I heard a story once by a radio host and I forget his name. He's talk about the Freedom Train, how Republicans the Freedom Train left the station a long time ago. As we get further and further away from real good, pure, unadulterated freedom, Republicans only slow the train down.

They never reverse it and get it back to the station. So like the Democrats, for instance, we've seen with Obamacare, the Republicans came out all fiery. John Boehner was crying on the House floor. Where are you going to get rid of this? Rip it out. Now, we have Republicans actually running to protect this thing. So that's what worries me about what you're saying about California, is we may be living in a really bad macro.

Trump loses, there is no saving this place for a generation because there's no math to. Right. You quoted Keynes, I'll quote another economist, this is Herbert Stein, Nixon's council chief of the Council of Economic Advisors. And one of my favorite aphorisms was anything that can't go on forever won't. And my view is woak blue state politics, the thing that can't go on forever. There are too many internal contradictions and there are too many ways that it's just anti nature is just anti human nature.

Now, the problem is a thing that can't go on forever, can still go on a long time. Communism was anti nature shot through with internal contradictions. Soviet Union lasted 70 years. I sure hope blue governance tyranny in the United States doesn't last 70 years, but it could last 20, 30, 50. I don't know. I do think, though, that it is a thing that can't go on forever and so it won't. I'd like to see it end and return to a normal, moderate, sensible politics while I'm still alive.

But I have to care about what happens later because I care about my kids and I'm a teacher. I've got now generations of students who are in their twenties coming up behind me. I have to care about them. So even if we can't save this thing while I'm still around, I'm going to do everything I can to help to help them help save it for them, but also help them prepare to save it.

Yeah, the way they say the world takes hostages, you know, it's not just about us. And I agree. I mean, I call my second book The Fight, precisely because that reason it's not about us. You were I'm I'm a Christian. I believe in my lord and savior Jesus Christ. I don't know your religion, not my business, but I just believe you were put here to fight. You weren't necessarily put here to win. A lot of brave, honorable people didn't win their fights.

But their life and their their honor and their integrity was marked by what they stood for, even if the ramifications of their decisions didn't happen while they were even around. So I believe that strongly what you're saying, that these are generational fights. But what worries me is what you said, that really dumb ideas can persist for a really long time. I mean, you saw it in New York. I grew up in New York with the Ed Koch David Dinkins era.

Michael, I was on the other coast from you. I mean, I can't tell you a major city, one of the world's great cities, decay so fast. When you watched it happening in front of you couldn't believe it was having graffiti trains, shell game, folks everywhere in Times Square, hookers, prostitutes, drugs, car break ins every night, two or three on a block. The cops wouldn't even take police reports sometimes for car break ins.

It was considered just like, hey, they only stole your car. And I find this stuff can get really, really bad for literally decades. But it only changes when the elites start to see it hit them because the elites are the ones that control the messaging, academia and the media. And once their kid gets mugged, God forbid their car gets stolen for the fourth or fifth time. They're the ones that get on the news and say, hey, Mayor Dinkins, this city really sucks right now.

You better fix something.

I actually I did grow up in California, but I've been going to New York since I was a little kid and I've lived there twice. I've lived there the last part of the last year of the Dinkins administration in three, which wasn't New York's worst, but it was still grubby and grimy, I think is starting to come back. But then I lived there for two years. I worked for Rudy Giuliani when he was mayor. I worked in city hall.

I sort of saw the city at its best when it had recovered. To me, one of the most depressing things, about twenty twenty is New York started to go bad, I think in the early to mid 60s and especially under John Lindsay was probably the worst mayor before de Blasio the city had ever had. And it took thirty years to recover from that. And it recovered almost fully and completely. And it was a spectacular place in so many ways.

I just feel terrible that the city gave back all that progress in two months this year.

And it's I didn't know you worked for Giuliani. This is a surprise on the show. Live how long you work for?

Two years. So and so. You know, as good as anyone what he did. And Michael, listen, this is great. I didn't intend this to go in this direction, but we're going to take it because this is really terrific. So for those of you who grew up in New York and obviously, Michael, having worked there, the city was a hellhole. I mean, to describe it as a nightmare. Is it being generous to nightmares?

Rudy Giuliani runs against David Dinkins. He loses the first time, right. Runs the second time, wins by a sliver, doesn't win by a lot. Slide's by even factoring into voter fraud. Right. And then runs for re-election after he instituted sound anti crime policies. Finally, some sane economics in New York and he wins over Ruth Messinger in a landslide of historic proportions as a Republican, which says to me that when people can bypass the elite cultural machine and see for themselves what a good, solid, liberty oriented Republican can do to fix a bad area, they'll vote even overwhelming the bad media coverage.

But then what happens? Things get good again. The culture takes back over. And you go right back to Bill de Blasio. Right, right, yeah, Rudy was re-elected by, I think, with 60 percent of the vote. I mean, unbelievable right now. Hard to imagine that happening again, certainly for a Republican law and order candidate. And then his legacy was effectively preserved by Mike Bloomberg for 12 years and three terms in part. Certainly the crime law and order legacy was preserved by misremember, remember?

And there were other ways that Bloomberg was different. But de Blasio is just a relic from another era. We don't want to. It's like he learned the wrong lesson on everything. One of the lessons from the Giuliani success was you got to prosecute the small crimes. You can't let public order turnstile jumping graffiti, the squeegee guys, all of that stuff. If you let that happen, you let larger disorder grow from it. And so he kept trying to keep a lid on everything.

And de Blasio comes in and says, I'm not going to do that anymore. Very similar stuff is going on on the West Coast. So you mentioned property crime. San Francisco right now is the highest property crime rate in the nation. And I actually had I had a I was there a few years ago a lot because I'm from there and I visit constantly. And I was there and I had a car break in and I called the FD and they kind of laughed like, well, take a report, but we're not sending anybody to see you.

What do you think? And they basically said, don't call us again because there will be no follow up. And whatever was stolen, you're not getting back. So you take the report just for insurance purposes. They don't effectively enforce property crime in San Francisco any more. And to mention George Soros, again, just to get further and further trouble with the left, put a bunch of money behind this hard left wing terrorist organization and say that he's a terrorist.

He's the son of two left wing terrorists who went to jail for killing a police officer and then was handed over to two other left wing terrorists who bombed one police plaza in the early 70s, the infamous Bernardine Dohrn and Bill Ayers, Barack Obama's good buddies who raised him. And now this guy is the district attorney of San Francisco County. And he's just saying, here's a whole list of crimes that I'm not going to prosecute. And San Francisco has become a dystopian hellhole that might actually even be worse than New York.

And the Dickens zerwas, with the big exception, is there aren't a lot of murders because of the crack epidemic then isn't raging now, but quality of life in San Francisco, property crime, the kinds of things you see on the streets, the open drug use open literally feces everywhere on the streets in San Francisco. That is worse than anyone has ever seen it in living memory.

Yes, it's interesting because I've heard some economists, pop culture economists, who've written some best selling books about the Rudy Giuliani era, the decrease in crime and the success of generally conservative law enforcement. First, politics. There are public order, first, I should say politics. And they tried to attribute it to all kinds of bizarre phenomena. But the hard reality is, having been a police officer and worked in the Giuliani era, the solution was rather simple.

Giuliani was just the first one to implement it. Broken Windows policing where when you let when you let a car be stolen and say there's a tool left behind and you don't fingerprint the tool because you say, I like the speed. Told you in San Francisco, it's just property crime. You're not getting it back. That same guy who stole the car might have went on later to commit a rape or God forbid, a murder. All kinds of horrible crimes.

And Giuliani said, yeah, when we get these guys, we can prevent the other stuff, too.

The things the NYPD found. I'm sure you were an officer. I was just a policy guy in the city hall. But that they found is OK. You catch a guy jumping over a turnstile and transit cop stops and and they run his name. It turns out he's probably always got a warrant for something else or he's carrying an illegal weapon and you get a gun off the street that way there. All these things are connected. They're not they're not harmless because the people who do them are more likely than not to be not harmless.

Right. And so broken windows policing, which originates from an article in the of all things we we trash I trash the Atlantic Monthly earlier in talking to you, I'm going to phrase it now, but the Atlantic Monthly of long ago in nineteen eighty two published an article by James Q. Wilson and George telling called Broken Windows. That's where the idea comes from. And they laid this out. And over the course of the eighties, some innovative guys in the NYPD, above all, Jack Maple, fairly legendary, maybe the first deputy commissioner, bow tie, bow tie.

And he had the juice, implemented it along with Bill Bratton. Broken Windows Policing is the single most successful sociological or public policy initiative of the twentieth century. And it's worked everywhere. It's been tried. It saved literally thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of lives from coast to coast. And we're giving up on it inexplicably. And it's going to cost lives. It's going to harm property. It's going to do nobody any good. This is a proven thing.

This is not even a theory anymore. This is a proven fact. It works. It makes communities better and safer and we should not abandon it.

It's crazy that we're being so Michael Goldfrapp here on your book because again, folks, I. I just want to strongly encourage you to read Michael's article and the book, the articles in the American Mind, it's called The Coming Coup by Michael Anton. Anton covered it on my show. You regular viewers have heard about it now four or five times.

It really is a a you know, it's a it's a it's a lighthouse in the fog. You need to look you need to be able to make your way back to shore through all this fog we're hearing right now. And this article will kind of be mean on what's going on. But his book here again called The Stakes by Michael Anton. It's a warning about what's ahead. Give me kind of your. Worst case scenario first and then we'll end on a good note.

They're your worst case scenario, let's say let's game it out. Joe Biden, God forbid, wins, which would be a disaster. We lose the Senate. Not only we lose, but we lose in states we thought we'd hold. Joni Ernst, Cory Gardner in Colorado. Let's say they get close to a even a filibuster proof majority. I don't think Mattiske is going to dump the filibuster anyway. And let's say their House majority grows, I don't know, 10 more seats.

They're kind of peaked out a little bit. But let's say 10 more seats. I mean, what do you see policy wise as some of the worst things we'll see mean tax hikes, just attacks on police? I don't want to put words in your mouth. What do you see?

Yeah, tax hikes, certainly, although that may be the least of our problems. I think they'll go back to this horrible Obama policy called affirmatively further fair housing, which was to eliminate a single family claim.

That is just quickly because. Yeah, because everybody on my show, it's basically an attack on the suburbs just to say, look, if you're a successful suburban town with single family zoning and high home prices and good schools and stuff like that, you're privileged. And what we need to do is get rid of that zoning and start moving populations around. We want to take people out of the cities and move them into mixed use housing with you. And so, look, I think people should have the right to live where they want to live, but that includes having the right to live in a single family house, in a single family neighborhood, if you want to.

They want to make that effectively illegal and do, in a sense, population transfers. The guy to read on this is Stanley Kurtz, who's written by the National Review espectacular.

I think they're I think they're going to try to push through some kind of reparations bill that's become maybe that was a fringe idea for a long time. It's now become mainstream in the Democratic Party, even the Brookings Institution, very establishment, supposedly center left institution. But the soul of old Democratic Washington has come out saying we should do this. That's just a massive wealth transfer from savings and home equity for people who let's be honest, there's nobody alive today who ever owned slaves.

And there's really not only that, even if you could say, well, we could take it only from people who are the descendants of slave owners, why are we punishing people for something their great, great, great great grandparents did? That's just the violation of any semblance of fairness. Or, of course. I think I think they'll go crazy with the WOAK stuff, the critical race theory, the anti patriotic education and all of that, and I just think that what they will also try to do is essentially federalize everything.

So the idea that there are states in the states can do that. The states have their jurisdiction and then the feds have theirs will be. Well, no states the way the feds. We know what morality is. We know what morality requires. If you don't live up to our standards, will either cut federal aid to you or will impose other punitive measures, because we want to we want to enforce uniformity across the entire country. So they're going to be going after red states and saying you need to get in line with the progressive cutting edge of California, New York and Massachusetts.

And if you don't, we're going to use punitive measures to make sure that you do. I think we're going to see a lot of that.

Sounds like a really terrific if you're a nutjob job. Yeah, no, sounds great, but great. I mean, really crappy.

Do you think also you're going to see before I get things that I want to leave you on, is that a bad note here? But do you think also we're going to see a doubling and tripling down on on corporations like we've seen with Elizabeth Warren, with our emphasis on stakeholders rather than the Jerrold's renewed shareholders are renewed pressure on corporations to get with the program. Yeah, right now, though, they don't even need to put pressure on corporations. Do we get any real.

They look they're feeling where the wind is going and they want to get ahead of the wind so that they're not being pressured. The problem is, at least it seems to me, is when corporations adopt all of this stuff, if there is nature, if there's human nature, if there are laws of economics that you and I have learned of them, this has to hurt the bottom line eventually. And they're going to have to dial it back and that's when they get the pressure.

Well, you said that you make your workforce 50 percent X and you would do it solely on demographics and quotas and diversity and this kind of thing. These and you haven't done it and therefore you need to be punished. And some of these people may say, well, we tried to do it, but it's difficult with all the competition for talent. And if I have to be worried about my bottom line and accountability to shareholders and we'll see if they how far they're willing to go in the direction at the expense of the bottom line before their businesses start to suffer and or fail and before their shareholders start to punish them.

But for now, they clearly feel like they've got some running room. So I think we can definitely expect more of that. And we can especially expect, I think, the government to work even further, more closely with media and social media to enforce various norms. The governments in a wonderful position. The blue left doesn't like the First Amendment and wants to restrict speech and censor people for people, but they don't have the legal power to do it.

So they outsource it to Google and Twitter and other technology platforms where private companies say, well, First Amendment doesn't apply to a private platform. The government loves that. And they work closely in many ways with these companies. And I think you'll see more of that. I think you could see speech severely restrict. I think you will see speech severely restricted in a coming blue.

You know, we're seeing a new era, so of exit question, so we don't leave the audience depressed on a on a week to hear if Donald Trump wins.

I am an optimist. If he wins and we have eight years, that's four more years to clean out this mess. I mean, let's be honest. We talked about in the opening segment of this discussion for those you missed it. You can listen and rewind on the digital podcast version. Michael brought up the fact that clearly I'm a supporter of the president, but there were bad personnel decisions made early. I think there was an effort to do kind of this.

Lincoln, let's bring in our old political enemies, people, to this kind of circle of new allies. But that was a different era when men had honor. A lot of these men he brought in simply don't and saw a great book deal and went out, screwed the president over. But now I think the president has kind of gotten hip to that. I know he has they're very careful now with personnel. I think with four more years, you could get a nice Roto-Rooter job on the deep state.

And I'm not saying we're going to turn this whole freedom train around, but I think the president could do real damage to the the cancerous components of our excellent country. And but their government, which has some thoughts on it, we could get rid of. I think even a flawless eight years of Trump was never going to fix all the problems because there are too many and too deep, we definitely need another four. I think you're absolutely right that he can do what he can accomplish a lot in another for both as president.

But also what I think he needs to do in his second term is rebuild, build a new consensus within the Republican Party, around his platform, around his trade platform, his immigration platform, his national security platform is individual liberty, law and order platform. So that we really need is not just four more years of Trump, but then a generation or more of Trump is behind him in Congress and the Senate and state houses as governors and and hopefully as a future president.

And that's to me, is the most important thing that we need out of the next four years is to build that kind of nationalist, populist, patriotic, pro, middle class, pro worker, pro-American economy, not not pro American economy, pro the numbers, because the old Republicans would say, well, we're pro economy, look, the GDP is up and the stock market's up. Well, all the gains are going to Manhattan and Palo Alto.

But, hey, the numbers are up right now. We need to share the gains widely from coast to coast, all throughout the middle, the north, south, southeast, southwest, everywhere. And we have a Republican Party that's committed to that agenda. Then then we have a fighting chance over a generation to rebuild what we need to rebuild, which was never going to happen in eight years.

Eight years is just necessary to lay the foundation, which is a perfect ending because that's actually the subject of Michael's book. Again, the stakes. There it is, folks, right there by Michael Anton. I was honored to get a copy here. It is a terrific book. So much meat and potatoes in here. A lot to get through. Pick it up on Amazon. Barnes Noble, again, bookstores everywhere. Don't forget to read Michael's piece.

It is an eye opener. I'm telling you, if you're stuck out there in a fog and you want to know what's coming, it is a lighthouse of reason and it exposes what we need to see. It's called the coming coup in the American mind. Be warned. Read the piece. Michael, thanks so much for your time. This interview is a real pleasure. I hope to have you back sometime.

I'd come any time. Thanks a lot. You just heard Dan Bongino.