Superbly perform descent into a night capitalism. Anupama Chopra, a film companion. That's right, folks. It's killers. The flower moon. I'm positively giddy today. I don't even know how I'm going to do this review, but we're going to get it done somehow, some way. I got into the critic screening of Killers the Flower Moon last Thursday in New York City and now we have an exclusive review. Cody, this is the way a true film critic operates. You and I know this. You're supposed to see the movie at a critic screening and then the movie opens Friday and you write your review back the day. Maybe Miami Herald, you'd have like a movie review Friday morning, blah, blah, blah. The way we do it because I'm not like a real critic. The movie opens Friday. I see it Friday, Saturday, Sunday. We tape it Monday. Release it Tuesday. But this time I actually feel like a critic. So this is interesting for me, first and foremost, because I've written my review as if I was a critic. And I keep thinking to myself, I want everyone to listen to this podcast. Cody's going to work some magic.

Get this in the main feed, but I don't want to ruin it for anybody. So I've written my review, which we're going to do in a second, and I follow the tiber model. 1st, third, you can discuss the plot. 2nd, 3rd, eh, last third, you can't tell anything. So at any point, if you feel like I'm saying too much, throw in a spoiler alert.

Now, before we get into the review, I need you to paint the picture because you were super eager to get in. Get some access here. How did you get the news? Was there a fist bump? I have you yelping. What was the literal reaction to finding out you're going to attend a screener?

Yeah, I'm with you on the yelling. Definitely. Some high pitched scratching. Definitely. Yelping.

You hug Harold Reynolds because you're like recording. You happen to be doing baseball stuff, so you're like, Harold, I got in. And he's like, I don't care, right?

He has no idea. Could not care less. He's like, Shoot, have you seen this Nathanie Baldi tape? I'm like, yeah, whatever you say, budy. I love nathan Ivaldi has a role in this movie. So I find out I'm in. And I think I'd emailed them last Friday. And then Tuesday, late night, they're like, here's the screenings. And it was like a Monday night. And I was like, no, I have to work. I'm like what? I call in sick. I'm like, no, I couldn't in good conscience. It's playoffs right now. I've never called in sick under false pretenses. Not in america. I did once in Canada, which was when I first had my ESPN audition. It was literally we were doing like, rehearsals for a new show and I'd asked them it was Canadian Thanksgiving, which just passed. And I said, Can I just have the Monday off? And they're like, no. And I go, okay. It's the only time I've ever called in sick under false pretenses because ESPN had given me just like, an informal meeting. And so I was like and somebody told me, they go, if you ever want to call in sick under false pretenses, say you threw your back out.

So I threw my back out, drove 9 hours to Bristol, met Laurie Orlando and now runs Throw your backup ever. You want to get dan. He'll have no idea. And then I drove back anyways, this time I was like, I can't call it. I could never do that to MLB Network. Let's work at another time. So Thursday they go 10:00 a.m or 05:00 P.m.. I go, My God, I'm okay. I think I can do the 05:00 P.m.. I thought at 10:00 a.m I go get the kids to school. But as you know, no car right now. I had to check the bus schedule. So this is where the situation got very delicate. 05:00 P.m. Movie, which is in Broadway, times Square, 15 Broadway, to be specific. Paramount screening room. Four boys, as you know, eldest guy's, got cross country till five. My other son 415. So my little guy gets him on the bus. 305. I got to pick up my other boy, Shaz. 305. So I tell my wife, McCarthy, you stay home. You got Maz on the bus. I'll pick up Shaz, pick him up. 304, come home, five minutes, 309. Give him a hug and a kiss.

I'm like, I got to go. He's like, what? I got I'm going to see a movie. The walk to the bus stop is twelve minutes. So if I leave at 310, I'm not going to make on the bus. The bus was at 317, which I 319. Excuse me, 319. Literally minutes here. And, you know, it's like you're hugging your daughter. You don't want to say goodbye. She's like, good dad. I understand. I'm like, Can I tell him my day? I'm like, we had five minutes. We're going to have a lot more time tomorrow. I got to run. I love you, buddy. So I'm wearing my Martin Scrista as a Marvel sweatshirt, perspiring a little bit, getting the jog gone. Slightly strained hamstring from tennis. So we're not really running all the way. So we're like, this could be a little embarrassing if someone sees you right now fighting through yeah. Is that a lame leg, dad? Name Burke into a bus stop. But I got there. 317. Bus at 319. Girls soon they're also waiting. Oh, you made it. I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah, just don't tell anybody how much I'm perspiring. Bus comes 321.

So two minutes late. Made it with four minutes to spare thought, then hit while I'm on the bus. Imagine if there's an accident. Like, imagine Lincoln Tunnel shut down. Imagine I'm on a bus. As this happens, thankfully, crisis averted. 43 minutes bus ride. Most important thing is what? Use the bathroom. Empty your bladder at Port Authority. Take care of business. 430, check the phone. Ten minute walk. Bam. 440, walk up security guard. Love your sweatshirt. Thank you. I go see one of the guys who was on the thread. Jeremy's like you made it. I'm like, Budy, you understand I might hug you? I don't even know you. Thank you so much for screening. Before I walk in, I go, Can I use your bathroom? He's like, yeah. I had just gone to the bathroom. I'm like, Three and a half hour movie. I go back to the bathroom. This is 445. I go in, I'm like, this is like and then I'm about to like my heart's just pounding. I'm like, this is, like, such an incredible experience. Four years I've been waiting for a Scorsese movie, and he's 80 years old. How many more of these am I going to get?

Cody, this is it. You have to bottle this emotion, right?

I thought you had to use the restroom, and that's why you were having these things. No, you're just excited for the movie.

Okay, you love this aspect, though. It's now 455, and I go, Maybe one more bathroom break, just in case. And even the guy sound like I'm like he looks at me, and I'm like, I just need one more. He's like, okay, Mike, three and a half. I don't want to have any sort of urine in my bladder. I want to just be completely focused. He's like, yeah. A couple of dribbles later, we go back. Guy sits down. Yeah. Guy looks me and goes I'm like, yeah, how are you doing, man? He's like? Good. Good. He's like, oh, I'm a huge fan. Thanks. Eric from Bro Bible. I don't know if you would probably do this like me. He goes, Eric Bro? You know what it is? Kind of thing? And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, no idea. Pro Bible doesn't sound like something I'd follow. I read all your stuff. And he's like, Are you here for work? I'm like, yeah, I do a podcast called Cinephiles. No, I know, but if you knew who I was, maybe it was a little bit confusing. But I'm like, yeah, I'm reviewing the movie. He's like, yeah.

So he chatted a few minutes. He's from Hoboken. Nice guy. All right, let's do this. And I love the fact he has a notebook.

How did he get in?

Great question. Yeah. And I look I'm like, I look like you have a notebook. I'm looking around, I go, most critics. And I feel like we just watch it and you remember it. Whatever you can't. He made a funny joke. He's like, I had a brand new notebook. Are you kidding? Three and a half hours. I need all these pages. I'm like, yeah. So it was funny. The only thing it never took me out of the movie.

Dark Theater, right?

Yeah, exactly.

I've done it before. Trust me. I nerded out when I was your age, like 35. I'm going to be a real film critic. I'm going to take a notebook. I'm like, Dirk, you don't even know what you're writing. You're just scribbling nonsense. Oh, man. I looked really important, but I don't know what the hell I wrote. So a few times I would notice like I would laugh at something. I'm like he's scribbling that one down like, oh, interesting. When I get this joke. Anyways, movie began. It's like, oh, I wish I could bottle this emotion. Like, granted I don't do drugs, but I'm like, this must be like if you're a real drug guy, this must be like what heroin is like. Once phone goes off, dim the lights. Paramount Pictures.

Is it goosebumps when the lights go down?

Absolutely. Goosebumps. And I'm like and all I'm telling myself is, never forget this feeling. This is it. This is what it's like. Lights fade off. Paramount Pictures. And away we go. I'm now going to read my review because I'm just too emotional.

This is where I'll lay out.

Go ahead. Yeah, thanks. Make some notes while go ahead, make notes while that guy was turn all.

The lights off in here and take notes on your review.

Here we go.

Martin Scorsese's, killers of the Flower Moon opens with the ritual of the Osage. So many of Scorsese's movies are ritualistic. Think of Charlie putting his hand above the flame in mean streets. Travis Myron in loneliness, driving his cab and frequenting adult movie theaters. Jake LAMATA in a repeated cycle of training and eating and battering everything in its way and in the rituals in his religious films like Jesus in Last Temptation of Christ, the Monks of Kundune and the Priests of Silence. Here a shot Marty loves employing and also used in silence. An eyeball peeking through, observing what's happening. Like Rayliotta's childhood character and Goodfellows observing the wise guys of the street. The ritual ends and the members of the osage go outside only to see a geyser erupt. And the music from longtime Scorsese collaborator, the late Robbie Robertson. Swells. Eureka. They've struck gold. Then the story begins. An old school newsreel. As if Marty's paying homage to titles from a Charlie Chaplin or Buster Keaton movie. The O sage became the richest people in America per capita, thanks to the ocean of oil underneath their feet. To quote Daniel PlaneView and P. T. Anderson's masterpiece, there will be blood that tell us apropos here as well because all these rich O sage will not be able to enjoy their riches forever.

So how exactly will it be plundered from them? Leonardo DiCaprio's earnest arrives by train. Scorsese grew up a devotee of Westerns John Ford's. The searchers, for example, directly informs the ending of Taxi Driver and let's go home, Jenny. You can feel his enthusiasm watching the opening of the picture and those great, wide, expansive shots. As the director seems as wide eyed at the potential of his first Western as Ernest is at seeing the potential exploration of this new phone territory, he goes to meet his uncle, who he calls King, played by the indomitable Robert De Niro. This marks DiCaprio's 6th collaboration with Scorsese and Bob's 10th collaboration with Marty and second back to back after an extended absence. Marty's longtime editor, thelma Schoonmaker who's cut all of Scorsese's films since 1980s Raging Bull, has called this De Niro's finest performance, and perhaps Bob is due for a late career Oscar as King. The actor finds a different approach yet again silver hair, swept back and period piece circular glasses that give him an avuncular look. This uncle is truly avuncular as he asks Ernest what kind of women you lack? White ones? What about red ones?

The Osage have a lot of money with them, and Ernest makes it clear with his sideways grin and grimy visage, hell, I do love that money. Soon he's driving Molly Burkhart, played by Lily Gladstone, who's nothing short of a revelation. Their relationship forms the crux of the movie in a moment, which was ad libbed, she mutters something in O sage, and without missing a beat, Leo responds, that must mean handsome and engine. Staying in character. She laughs, and they continue on the ride. Later at her home, when she tells him to stay quiet during a rainstorm, she makes it plain to him she knows he wants to be with her for her money, and he doesn't bat an eye, saying he sure does love that money. Later, she's with her sister, and she also tells him bluntly, ernest is money hungry, and Lily doesn't dissuade the notion and says, he sure is handsome. Later, Ernest seeks the advice of King if he should marry Lily, and once uncle gives his blessing, the plan has been hatched. In Scorsese's world, there isn't one mastermind complicit but entire community, and after showcasing love and rituals of the O sage as they start to be murdered, our emotional investment rises considerably.

Who isn't responsible? Is King a man of benevolence? A crafty, benevolent or incarnation of evil? Is Ernest a lover, not a fighter, and too ignorant to understand what's happening? Or is he that worst kind of person, a wolf in sheep's clothing? David Ehrlich, the critic of IndieWire, has called this the best performance of Leonardo DiCaprio's career, and it's easy to see why. As you can see, all of DiCaprio is tortured as ever. And there's the ever expressive Gladstone, who Spike Lee says should win an Academy Award suffering through diabetes and seeing the slow, painful dissolution of her society. The capable supporting cast features two long time actors working with Scorsese for the first time, academy Award winner Brendan Frazier for The Whale, and John Lithgow playing opposing lawyers. And there's also Sally Bugs from The Irishman showing up in a memorable cameo. Scorsese's directorial style is less busy and frenetic than the days of Michael Ballhouse's ever present roaming camera in Goodfellas. Here. Rather than elaborate tracking shots, marty is content to have extended takes of over the shoulder shots, which means when he wants to ante up the dazzle with a Dante's Inferno sequence, as David Grand mentioned, or breaking of the Fourth Wall, or an extraordinary bit of acting from DiCaprio which exists of an uninterrupted medium shot, the effect is overwhelming.

The aforementioned score drum beats with dread. Jack Fisk nails the period production detail. Rodrigo Prietto's peerless cinematography and Ellen Lewis's casting gives a face to so many Osage actors who haven't been seen before. Scorsese and co screenwriter Eric Ross spent two years completely rewriting the script when Leo expressed interest in playing Ernest rather than the straight arrow FBI agent played by Jesse Plemons. As Marty said, he was worried about telling yet another white savior tale. Instead with the cooperation and investment of the Osage community, it's a story of withering betrayal and cataclysmic sadness. Killers of the Flower Moon is an everlasting elegy and another Marty masterpiece from the world's greatest living director. A month shy of turning 81, he proves he's capable of giving us nothing short of the best picture of the year and a timeless tale that will result in double digit Oscar nominations. There's moments of triumph and humor, but ultimately this is a bleak American tragedy, shattering in its depiction of evil and the corrosive nature of the human heart.

Goosebumps, give me something negative. Tell me one negative sentence about it.

The question really is like, what would have had to take for me to not call? Seriously, that's what I want to know.

But seriously, you have nothing? Like, is there anything? Any critiques?

I tell you, man, as soon as it's over and it was three and a hook, like, it's three and a half hours on the dot. I turn my phone on, I see like twelve messages and it's like, how about that Trey Turner hit? I'm like, no, I don't care right now. That's really not my focus. And I kind of had to catch my breath. I kind of want to talk to Buddy there from the Bro Bible. He dipped right away. He gets up like, I guess I kind of want to have a conversation with you, but it's such you just wanted to be like, hey, can we.

Just go and talk about this?

Like, me and you, you're taking the train. I got to take the bus back home. Trust me, I had a $21 bus ride. I'll walk with you. But as I went, thankfully to the bathroom, right away, I looked at the guy next, thankfully not the urinal. And I was just like, man, that's heavy. He's like, yeah. And then we discussed a couple of scenes. I'm like, I just feel so grateful I got to see it. He's like, yeah, I feel the same way. And then I walk out and you go back into society. Many would argue the worst of society, which is times squared ever and hustling and bustling. I'm like, I can't do this right now. I don't want to go to a bus. I don't want to be surrounded by people dressed as Iron Man. I'm going to go to a sports bar. I first got a veggie cheese slice, $6.33. Let me just throw all these text messages. Think about the movie, watch it for the Phillies game. Took the bus home, but I was just like, oh, my God, man, I can't wait to see it again. When you see a great film, I was like, okay, that's one down.

Now I can't wait to see it again. Because you're watching it the first time, you're just watching the story unfold. What's going to happen now? When I watch it the second time, I watch it from a critical eye looking for certain scenes, but I can't wait to people to see it. And are you still going to bring your wife also? Excellent question. So I went back and then I said to her this week, I'm like, hey, Thursday, not sure. I was trying to reschedule the kids swimming. She has her cousin coming Friday into town for a couple of days. So I'm like, did you still want me to get the sitter? And she was like, no, I'll just cancel the sitter. And I'm like, are you sure? She's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, don't ask me twice. Because now what I'm going to do is basically she's saying she's prioritizing the fact her cousin's coming, which is totally fine. She wants to get the house ready. But now I'm like, Friday, once I get the kids at school, I'm going to go to see a 09:00 A.m. Screening, knock that out for three and a half hours and then shoot.

I'll be on the road at the World Series. Could be Rangers, Phillies. I'm like, man, I wouldn't have a day off because I'd be traveling. But my show is me and Harold are doing the pregame. So if I got a 10:00 a.m Showing in Philadelphia, I'd be cracking on a killer screening. This is Bryce Harper.

What's the most you've ever seen one movie in a theater?

It'd be the Irishman, which I saw three times in theater. So that was New York Film Critics Screening, which was Scorsese de Niro Pacino Pesci. And then I took my wife the next day, maybe it was the day after. And then one of my budies close friends from Kingston was visiting like a month later. He's like, oh, I haven't seen the Irishman. I go, let's go do it. So three is the most I've ever done.

And you'll do this one three, we think.

Yeah, I think so. It's got to be it's minimum two. It just wouldn't be me if it wasn't three. Will you do it? One is the better question.

I want to see it. I mean, I wanted to review it on here, but you got it ahead of time. But I am going to go see it.

All right. We have as well, a couple of members of the team, which is fantastic. So, again, I can't thank Mason and Jeremy and the rest of the crew here from 42 west. These guys were awesome because they did see when I walked into the sweatshirt that I go, Listen, I'm locked in. So afterwards I said, it's the best movie of the year. What can we do here? I'm going to give up a kidney for five minutes of Marty. They go, not going to get to Scorsese, unfortunately, did Time magazine. He's not going to do Cinephile. But I did get the invite to the webinar. So 30 minutes of Marty talking to all of us on a global stage and they're kind of sent along some clips of that. So take a listen. Here's Martin Scorsese talking about killers of the Flower Moon.

Welcome to the global press conference for Killers of the Flower Moon. And we are extraordinarily lucky and honored to have with us here today a man who really does not need presentation as he's one of the greatest filmmakers of all time, who has co written, directed and produced what, in my opinion is a masterpiece. Personally, it blew me away. I was not that familiar with the story and now I can't stop thinking about it and the movie. Congratulations once more.

Thank you so much.

The first question is, you formed a 20 year partnership with Leo DiCaprio and a 50 year partnership with Robert De Niro. Why have you returned to them both so often over the years, and what has stood out to you most about their work on Killers of the Flower Moon?

Well, in the case of Robert De Niro, we were teenagers together and he's the only one who really knows where I come from, people I knew, that sort of thing. Some of them are still alive. He knows them. I know his friends, his old friends. And we had a real testing ground in the 70s where we tried everything and we found that we trusted each other. It was all about trust and love. It's what it is. And that's a big deal because very often, if an actor has a lot of power and he had a lot of power at that time, an actor could take over your picture studio, gets angry with you, the actor comes in and takes it over with him. I never felt that. I never felt that there was a freedom, there was experimenting and also not afraid of anything, wasn't afraid to do something. He just did it. And years later, he told me he worked with this kid Leo DiCaprio in Little Boy in this Boy's Life. And he said, you should work with this kid. Sometime, but it was just casual. But with him, something like that. A recommendation at that time, I think, in the early 90s is not casual.

He says it casually, but he rarely said that. He rarely gave recommendations. And so years go by and I'm presented with Leo, with Gangs in New York, and we worked together in Gangs. He made gangs possible, actually. He loved the pictures I made and he wanted to explore the same territory. And so we developed more of a relationship when we did The Aviator and there was a kind of towards the end of it, there was a kind of something happening, a maturity with him, not quite sure. But we really clicked in certain scenes and that led to Departed and then that became much closer. That was a project where Bill Monahan him, other people were writing all the time and recreating that character that he played of Billy. And so during that time, he really found out that even though it's 30 years difference, he has similar sensibilities. He likes pretty much he'll come to me and he'll say, listen to this record. It's Louis Jordan, an Ella Fitzgerald. I grew up with it. He's not bringing me anything new, but he likes it. That's interesting. Why is he bringing? He'll call me and call I had a cold.

And I was looking at Criterion films and I wanted to catch up on some of these classics. And I saw this incredible movie. It's incredible. It's a Japanese picture. It's called Tokyo Story. Did you ever see it? I said, this is last year. I said yeah. I mean, it took me a few years to catch up to. I couldn't even understand the Ozoo style, seeing it for the first time in the early 70s because we're used to Orson Wells cameras and this guy got it from watching it on a big screen and TV. And that's very interesting to me to be open that way to older parts of our culture, newer parts of our culture, of course, and the curiosity that he has about other people and other cultures. And there's a trust. There's a trust. And even if we can't get it right away, we know we'll come up with something. Maybe other people have relationships where they come up with it faster. Well, we don't. We just work it through. For example, the scene between Leo and Bob in the jail at the end, that scene ultimately was finally written, I think, a few days before we shot it.

Working with the two of them and working with Marianne and everybody because we had said so much and it could have gone so many different ways. But what does the picture really need? How much more is there for them to say to each other after all that's? And so we went that know it's trust. Particularly doing Wolf of Wall Street, by the way, he came up with wonderful stuff that was outrageous. So I pushed him. He pushed me, then I pushed him more than he pushed me. Suddenly everything was wild. It's really quite something. And he had a good energy, too, on the set. That was also important, very important, because in the mornings I'm not really good, and I get on set and then I'd see him or Jonah Hill, or him and Margot Roby, or him and Lily, and suddenly they're all like, hey. I said, okay, let's work.

Mentioned music a moment ago. Your films have a musicality through your framing, camera movements, sound, silences, where you choose to cut shots, what informs the rhythm of your work, and what music were you hearing in the making and execution of this film?

Well, yeah, the way I like to make pictures, for the most part, I've learned, or not intentionally, but I feel it is like the pacing of music. The boxing scenes in Raging Bull are like the ballet scene in The Red Shoes, where everything is seen and felt from inside the ring, inside the fighter's head. The way everything is felt and seen inside the dancer's head. Maurice Era's in Red shoes. So the covering of the band singing the weight in The Last Waltz doing in a studio was very much, according to the music, to the different bars of music and how a camera would move. Et. So and sometimes I play the music back on the set. In the case of Goodfellas, a number of times, the end of Layla, for example, was played back as we were doing the camera moves. And so for me, ultimately, a movie is more like I'm trying to get to a movie. Being a piece of music is what I think I've been trying that's why I do think these music films, at the same time, I'm trying to get to the pacing and rhythm of something that can be played.

For example, I don't know, you play a symphony and you live with it. How many times I heard the Beethoven symmet. I don't want to hear it again. No, you play it. Well, I like the third movement. I want to hear the second movement again. No, I mean, you live with it. You live with it. Or baroque music. Anything by Know or Philip Glass, let's say. And so, in a case like this, very often I leave if the film is playing on TCM, let's say, I take the sound off and I just watch it's living with me. I live with it. And if it's a Hitchcock or it's a Ford or newer one, whatever, I'm looking and I can tell there's a musical rhythm to the pacing of the camera, the edit. What I mean by the camera is the size of the people in the frame, the editing and camera movement. I could feel it. And so that's how I exist, in a sense. So for me, it's really about getting the pace of music. And. That's done very carefully on set but also even more carefully in the editing. That's why this picture is more like somebody pointed out recently, like a Balero where it starts slower and moves slowly and encircles and encircles and then suddenly gets more intense and more intense and suddenly goes more and more until it explodes that way.

And so I felt it. I couldn't verbalize it the way I am now but I felt it in the shoot and in the edit. And a lot of the music that kept pushing me was what Robbie Robertson had put together particularly that bass note that he was playing when Ernest drops her off for the first time at her house, Molly's house. She looks at him, she turns and all of a sudden you hear.

I.

Said I wanted something dangerous and fleshy and sexy, but dangerous. And that beat took us all the way through. All the way through. Then I added, like he sent me some hymn and I could pick up music from Harry Smith's anthology of folk music, all this sort of thing. One particular piece called The Indian War, whoop by Hoyt Ming and his Pep Steppers was very, very important. Bulldoze Blues by Henry Thomas, which became Going Up To Country by Canned Heat. All of this dark is the Night, blind Willie Johnson with the flames. Oh, cece writer Ma Rainey. And of course, Emmett Miller singing Lovesick Blues, which became the great Lovesick Blues by Hank Williams. Later on. But this was the first. So it's in all that's in there. But the drive of the movie is what Robbie put down and we pulled it through that way.

All right. Now, as promised, a couple of big time guests. We have Jack Fisk who is the production designer of Killers the Flower Moon. He's had an amazing career which I'm going to dive into with him particularly his work on this film and also casting director Ellen Lewis. How cool is that? A casting director? How do you cast these kinds of movies? And by the way, she's also cast goodfellas casino. The departed Wolf of Wall Street and the Irishman. So she's worked with Marty for years. I cannot wait for both of these interviews. I hope you enjoy them as much as I did. As promised, Killers of the Flower Moon is the best picture of the year. And what a tribute not only to Martin Scorsese and all his collaborators one of whom a pleasure to talk to now on Cinephile. His name is Jack Fisk. He is the legendary production designer who worked on this film. Jack, it's so great to see you. Congratulations on such an achievement.

Thank you. It was nothing but fun to do a challenge.

So first thing, I think it's really instructive for our listeners to go, okay, production designer. I get the basic essence. They're obviously putting together the look of the movie and grabbing all the materials. But you just start with a mood board. Like, what's in the mood board? Let's start there.

Well, I don't really start with mood boards. I start with character. And in this film, the character I was concerned about most was Molly, so I needed to figure out where she lived. And none of us knew exactly. The history books didn't have pictures of her house, and not that much was written about her until David Grand wrote his beautiful book. So my first research when I came on the film was to find out how Molly and her family were living in 1920 1919, and then to figure out how the town was set up and what the main income to the town was and what kind of people and shops were there. So that research compiled literally for months. Because of COVID I had extra time to do the research. And based on that research, I started to design the film, design her house based on other OSH homes at the time, and the colors that we normally put in the mood board, I was investigating real locations and finding out what color was this. Originally, I was looking behind light switches and under moldings and peeling wallpaper back and seeing what was under that.

So it was purely investigative, because I figured if I knew where it really was, then we could alter it if it made the story better. But at least we had a starting.

Point, and from there you end up building this entire area. So did you guys literally build the sets? Was it on Osage land? Is it in Oklahoma? Did you have permission? I know you worked with the community. How did that develop?

We worked with the Osage community. Some of the land that we built on Mahler's house and stuff was privately owned by a family in Osage County. But we built some things on Osage land. We were given or allowed to shoot in about 40 buildings in Pawhuska, which became the main street of our town, representing Fairfax.

And.

Those buildings in that block were pretty bad shape. They were vacant, which was great because we could take them over the ones that were most solid. We ended up making sets with inside them. We filled in the gaps where buildings had fallen down or burned, know, been destroyed by building buildings. That reflected the research we had on Fairfax. So we brought as much of Fairfax into Pahaska, into those two blocks as we could. One building that was in pretty good shape was an old appliance store, and that became our pool hall. But it had a drop ceiling. We dripped that out, it had paneling on the wall. We took that out and we had the idea to put a barbershop in the pool hall. So we tiled parts to the floor, and when we took the ceiling out, it went up at 14ft. And there were these clear story windows above the picture windows. So it let in so much light. And it was like when you were in there, you were at an IMAX theater watching the road. And it was great for us because we put so much energy into making the road right.

Every building and the dirt and the cars and stuff. And from that set, it became a part of the set. So the set, it just expanded to the other side of the road. And it gave you an idea that these people hanging out in the pool hall were just kind of watching, like in a goldfish bowl. They were watching this town go by and they would see somebody walking. They know how much money he had or how much time he had to live, or his sister or who she was. They were right there scheming the whole time. And the pool hall was a perfect place to do it. So that became a featured set.

And it's amazing, too. Like, imagine when you're getting these artifacts, for example, let's suppose you get a lamp. You say, okay, it has to be period specific, 1920s. But you mentioned everything begins with character. So do you have to look at a lamp and go, okay, is that the kind of lamp that Ernest Burkhart and Molly would have? Like, how specific are you in those details?

We are specific because you only have so many chances to tell the viewing audience about the character. So if you are able to find a lamp that Molly would have liked just by seeing that lamp, you know more about Molly. And if you don't put too many things in the set, you see more stuff. As you walk through a room, you might see three or four things. You won't see 20 things. Your mind can't adjust that, plus watch the movie. So I try to keep the dressing down and I put importance in. Adam Willis, who was a set director, and I worked closely together. This is our second film know, we chose stuff that primarily that worked for the character and then work for the settings to make them more interesting. It's fun thinking about character and the same thing about color. Lately, after COVID, when the newscasters, you start seeing them in their homes talking, and you start seeing the books they were reading, you start seeing The Lance, the pictures, you learn more about them. And it was much more interesting to me. I mean, I love studying character.

Well, I can tell, like, you're somebody who is just such focused on detail. I look at your career is incredible. I mean, the fact you're nominated for the Academy Award, best production design for two films I adore, particularly P. T. Anderson's There Will Be Blood and The Revenant. So you clearly, Jack, have an affinity or an expertise in period pieces and dealing with this kind of really intense subject matter. I mean, part of why I love Killers of the Flower Moon is. I could see the parallels, but there Will Be Blood and it's about capitalism and greed and all of that. And of course, The Revenant's a wonderful movie as well. So maybe speak to your ability to kind of focus on Westerns and be able to really kind of nail those period pieces.

Yeah, and I love working know some designers, their whole career is on a they and they create stuff on there. But I got started early on Days of Heaven, building that house for Terry out in the plains of Alberta, Canada. And I just loved it. I love being outside, I love dealing with the weather. I like being able to shoot the set from 360 degrees so you can always put the sun where you like it, that you can go in and out and you're in the real world. And I think it's helpful for actors. The more real you can make something, it helps them with their character and it's helpful for the directors. And then I work with the cinematographers, trying to put bigger windows in and orientating the set so we get a beautiful backlight and that we have some depth in the vistas that we're not always having to put up blue screen or paint in the backgrounds that they're really those wonderful backgrounds. And that's what we found in Oklahoma. It's a great American prairie and it's just not seen enough in films in Oklahoma, in Pahuska is the tall grass prairie, which is beautiful, and they've reestablished buffalo on that.

And you will go out there and you don't know what year it is. It could be 18 hundreds, it could be 19 hundreds there could be today. But it's timeless. And always in films, I like to not pinpoint a year so much, but to have it timeless. And it has to do with the place and the year that you might recognize this town as Fairfax, but it might be any town in the United States at the time. And it could be 1920, but it could be 1915, or it could be 1910. The only thing that gives it away are the automobiles. They're like a clock. I try to mix them up and put some older ones in there.

You've worked with so many great directors. And I do want to ask about Terrence Malik. He designed all of his first eight movies. You've worked with David Lynch. I mentioned PT. Anderson alejandro Gonzalez. And to work with scorsese. I mean, I think he's America's greatest living director. What was that experience like?

It was really one of the highlights of my experience in working on films. Like I said, I may have said when I first met with Marty, it was over Zoom because COVID was raging across the country. And then we started communication through Zoom and letters, emails and letters with photos. And I would send him my ideas, research and stuff as we went. And he was so passionate about the film, about telling those a story. And he embraced ideas. If you presented him with a factual reasoning or logical reasoning, he accepted that. I remember when I first told him about Molly's house, he said it wasn't a mansion, it was a small house. And he thought for a second, he said, you mean I will never get to see her come down the staircase? And I know because Marty references films all the time, was Gone With the Wind and that great red Staircase, but it was sort of he he let it go, and it was more important for him to get everything right. But I think a lot of misconceptions about the osage came from the press and urban legends and people retelling stories, but what we tried to do was shift it back to the way it most likely was in the 1920s.

Like you said, it's so collaborative because you're working with Rodrigo Pritcho, the cinematographer, you're working with the set decorator, you're working with all these different pieces, and I imagine a little bit with the actors as well. So what kind of interactions did you have with the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro and the well.

You know, I worked with Leo on Revenant, so when he first came to know I think he may have been there before, but when he first came under my watch, I took him around to the locations and sets. I just see actors. They get information, they click it into the character. The character is being involved in their brain, and they lap up any kind of information. So you want to feed them research, you want to tell them more about locations, more about other people at that time. And I think that they relied a lot on osage input. Know, for customs, you notice mean. Robert De Niro, I think, spoke fluent Osage by the end of the film and Leo was rattling off lines in and I think the teacher that was teaching them all the language said that Lily reminded of her grandmother the way she know the actors do so much on themselves. And I think they appreciate once they trust you, they know what your stuff you're putting into the set is real or is thought about through their character. They just absorb it, and it becomes a part of their performance. That's the ideal thing that I think we do in building a world is that we build a world that reflects their character and tells us more about their character.

How hands on are you? Like, if you see Carpenters and putting the table together not like that. You got to hammer the nail. Like this. Will you get right in there?

I do get in there. When I was in Oklahoma, although this is one of the bigger films I've worked on, I had a car full of battery operated tools, and I can't help it. One day they were putting up the footings for Hale's House and it was just going too slow. And so I got in there and just worked with them. And it's exhilarating because I kind of approach building these worlds like sculpture. And you don't want to just sit back and watch. You want to become a part of it. From some of the old days of let's put on a show with Mickey Rooney and know you want to get there and build something. I remember in the first film I did with Terrence Malik badlands martin Sheen was picking up cable and carrying it to the next set. And my favorite way to work is in everybody meets and they're making a film and there's no division of you can do this and you can do that. So I'm continually getting in trouble know, crossing the line. I enjoy it so much that I don't care.

No.

I love Daniel Lupe on the master. And we were going to shoot in Hawaii. And I remember I was going to a plane. He called and he said, look, I've hired somebody in every department so you can do whatever you want because that's when the unions get upset, is if you're doing something and putting someone out of work. But he said, I've arranged it. You could do whatever you want.

All right, time for last one again. Legendary. All those movies would I know. They just told me one more. I could go for Jack another hour. Badlands Days of Heaven the Thin Red Line, the Tree of Life But I do have to ask because you mentioned The Master and There Will Be Blood, I've just got to ask, can you give me your best Lewis story? Because I need something of him as Daniel Plainview, whatever you got. Or PT. Anderson, something on that set, because I just adore that movie. Just the John Houston accent. Whatever you got.

Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, Daniel Day Lewis, he important for him is the know, finding the hat for Plain view and all that stuff. And he asked us if we could build they rented a little house for him. He said, can you build a room in the backyard with all the furnishings from the period so he could go in that room and get lost in the period? And he said that when he was working on Gangs in New York, it was so alarming to him because he'd be shooting in the back lot in Rome. Chinichita and he would go outside and be in Rome. But he wanted to be in New York in 1900, New York. And it blew his mind. So he takes what I love to extreme. He wants to get lost in that period. Every piece of clothing, every notch on his belt, everything informs his character. And that's why he's so great.

Yeah. In talking to you, I just keep thinking the expression the devil's in the details. And it's in those details that you get greatness and masterpieces that you've worked on like There'll Be Blood. And this latest one killers of the Flower Moon. Jack Fisk, production designer. Jack, I can't thank you enough. This is a real honor.

I love talking to you and I'm glad you liked the film.

We talked to Jack Fisk, the production designer announced to bring in the casting director, Ellen Lewis of Killers of the Flower Moon. It's nothing short of the best picture of the year. And Ellen is somebody who is so critical to Martin Scorsese's success. If you look at her resume, goodfellas Casino, The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street, the Irishman, in addition to many other great films along the years, you can imagine the impact she has had on his movies. And what a pleasure bringing Ellen right now. Ellen, congrats. Great to see you. What a wonderful achievement.

Thank you so much. I'm so pleased to be here. Thank you, Edna. Thank you.

So this film took a while. Ellen marty is writing the script with Eric Roth. And of course, Leo is going to play the FBI agent. And they go, no, you know, we don't want to tell him the white savior tale. Let's reshape this. Leo calls David Grant, who I just had on the podcast. David, he goes, what do you think about planet Earnest? Okay, sounds good. Let's reshape the entire thing. And all I kept thinking is, imagine Ellen Lewis going, all right, we're going to start shooting here. Let's start casting here. No, wait, actually we're going to scrap this for two years and we've got COVID. So take me through it. When did you start casting the picture?

I started working on it in 2018. I contacted Renee Haynes, who I had met on Godless Netflix limited series. I had done that Scott Frank directed and she had done the indigenous casting in that. So I had already read David Grant's book, thought it was amazing. So I knew that I needed good support in that part of the casting. Renee started getting me films made by indigenous filmmakers or starring indigenous actors that I had never seen before. So that's as early as 2018. But in 2019 with already our production had developed a strong relationship with the osage nation. Renee, as well as our production, set up an open call, meaning that you put out flyers and then anybody who's interested can attend. And we did this prior to Thanksgiving 2019. We did three days in Pahuska, two days in Oklahoma City and two days in Tulsa. There was a total of 2500 indigenous actors, or humans, actually not necessarily actors who came. And from that Renee was walking the crowd and looking at faces and looking at people. And anyone that she thought could be right for us she sent to another room and they were given a small scene.

And then I was in another room with my associate Kate Sprantz and her associate Elise and we read people and we read people all throughout those days. It was very wonderful to be in the community. The turnout was so incredible and people were so enthusiastic and patient because it was a lot of people to consider and be seen. And from that, most of those faces you see up on the screen and.

Lily Gladstone is such a revelation in the imagine, you know, Bob and principal actors, obviously they're going to be cast and Marty's taking care of that. But someone like Lily Gladstone, I believe you discovered her. How did you do it?

I didn't discover I mean, Lily's been acting. Renee again, was giving me films to look at with different actresses and she brought up Lily. And I had seen a certain woman, the Kelly Riker film. And I knew that Marty was a big Kelly Ryker fan. And when I had seen the film and I watched it again and you don't want to feel too confident because we were right in the beginning of seeing people, but I felt confident enough that late 2019, Marty said, Molly, we really have to. And I said, I think we're going to be okay. And we were. And so, obviously, we went through a process with that. And then we zoom red with Marty, with Lily and then we zoom red with Leah, with Mean, a magnificent actress who adds such depth and heart and soul and stillness and love to this very tragic story.

Yeah, I've been telling said, you know, you walk out of there and DiCaprio's arguably never been better. And I hope De Niro gets a late career Oscar because he's deserving. But Lily Gladstone feels like a revelation. Like she's just so expressive in the role and she really is like the heart and soul of the movie. Those eyes and that pain, that anguish, it's remarkable. And it goes to your point just about the authenticity. How many roles did you have to end up casting in the film?

Know, at a certain point I stopped counting because as you said, I've done a lot of movies for Marty and a lot of them have a lot of roles. The Irishman was a huge cast, too. But I think that what's interesting about this. I think Renee Haynes, because she did account, I think there are 42 indigenous roles in the film and only 14 of the actors who are in the film had ever acted before. So although that open call was vital and had that not happened before the pandemic, it's so fortuitous that that happened before the pandemic because we would not have been able to see the community in that way.

And I always wonder I have friends who are actors and it's funny they try to befriend the casting director. I could just imagine the amount of people you've seen. Ellen, please. I'll do anything for Scorsese, my hero. Whatever I can do. What is it like when you're casting do you ever develop I wouldn't say a soft spot for an actor, but go, you know what? I really think they're right for this. And then maybe the audition doesn't go well. Would you ever go to Marty and go, listen, give him or her another audition, or go, look at this work that they've done, bring them back another time? Or would you not get that involved?

I think that, first of all, every film that I do, no matter who the director is, it's another world that you're creating. And obviously, this world was very specific. We were given fantastic historical film to look at. We had footage from the Rotary Club and we had home movies of the Osage. So what you're trying to do, obviously, is it's so vital who the actors are, who the faces are, and we are the first people really on a film. Maybe locations is on, but casting is so vital. I start just to try to see the world through his eyes. And it's very difficult to be an actor. It's a career that is filled with rejection, and only one person is going to get the role. So I just try to make that audition process as kind of warm and welcoming as possible. If I really believe in someone and I feel that they didn't do the right reading, I'll read them again. But Marty also, when we do read with people together, he's very sensitive to the you know, he really understands actors probably better than anybody, and it's just a joy to bring somebody to him.

And of course, people are going to be nervous, but I've talked to them and I've explained to them what the process will be and how great he is, and I try to make it as comfortable as I can for the actors.

I can tell you have, like, a nice instinct to you that you could tell if someone's hyperventilating. You go, It's okay, take a deep breath. He's just another guy. He's just marty, it's okay.

And I'm excited, too. I let them know. It's like, I'm excited every time, too. And a little mean. You're more nervous. But you should just know I'm really excited and he's really excited to meet you.

How does he punctuate things when he's really excited about.

Know? He just knows when it's right. He's extremely decisive. I have gone know my process is to open the door very wide and then I really narrow down the choices, which is how I was taught the casting process from Julia Taylor, from Marion Dougherty to Julia Taylor, that that is how we do our job. I try not to overwhelm the director, and yet, obviously, it is about what is their vision. And overall, we've done pretty well over these many years.

Yeah, more than pretty well. The batting average is high. Are you on set, Ellen, during the filming of the movie?

Never. I never go to the set. I don't like going to the for. That doesn't mean that always, sometimes when these casts are very large, I might have to see Marty a little bit through production, but generally I'll FaceTime or zoom with him. But for the most part, I feel that it's very important that casting be finished by the time he is shooting, so that this is not something he needs to be thinking about. His cast is taken care of and then he is very aware of the fact that I am paying attention through all of the shooting. I'm in constant touch with our ad department and our producer because dates can shift. And so I'm just really keeping up on things so that the cast is flowing smoothly. But I don't like the set. So I really love what I do in my pre production. One on one time with the actors and then with the director.

We're talking to Ellen Lewis, legendary casting director, killers of the Flower Moon. You've all got to go see it's my favorite movie of the year so far. Ellen, how well do other casting directors know each other? Do you ever say to someone, you go, I'm trying to cast this, and you go, you know what? I've got the perfect actor for you.

Call this know, as I said, my first thought on reading Killers of the Flower Moon was to call Renee Haynes, who specializes in indigenous casting. This is what she has done throughout her career, and then she and I are collaborating. So many of my closest friends are casting directors jeannie McCarthy, Vicki Thomas, Ellen Chenna with Juliet Taylor, my mentor, still one of my dearest friends, Laura Rosenthal. And I think one of the reasons is because I think that casting actually, I think people don't really understand what our job is. And I think many times people think, oh, I can think of actors. And so they think that kind of that's what the job is. But we all obviously know that we do know what the job is and how challenging it can be. And so we're a very supportive community. I feel really proud to be part of the casting community.

It really is an extraordinary community, as you said. The one question I always have is how is there no Oscar for casting directors? It's such a vital process. Marty himself has said, you know, this, he said 90% of movies is the casting. How can you not get an Oscar for casting?

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, to say that it's wrong is an understatement. Our craft is equally as important as every craft that gets nominated. I understand the writer, the cinematographer, the editor. I just don't understand makeup, hair, costumes, sound. It's a terrible oversight, I feel, and hopefully they will correct this at some point.

We have so many different categories and there's so many worthy of recognition. It's honestly astonishing to me that a casting director can't. Also be mentioned.

All those crafts deserve an Oscar, but absolutely casting deserves an Oscar.

There's one actor I wanted to focus on just because I rewatched The Irishman for the fourth time. I saw it three times in theaters. I saw the New York Film Festival when Marty was there. De niro Pasci pacino. Then I watched it the next day I took my wife and then I saw it again in theaters. And then I had to rewatch it a couple of weeks ago. And I said, the guy got to ask you about once you were able to kindly come through, give us a few minutes. Because I saw killers of the flower Moon. I said, oh, my God, I love this guy. And it's the guy who plays Sally bugs Lewis can sell me. Tell me about Lewis.

This guy's know. You know, I had not been as familiar with Lewis's work prior to when he came in and auditioned for The Irishman. And the minute that he read, I remember that I had to rush out to an appointment. I'm like, you are amazing. I am so happy to meet you and to hear this reading. And I know we will be crossing paths again soon. And I think that Lewis is a brilliant, brilliant actor. And I think to show how he goes from the Irishman fluidly into Killers of the Flower Moon and this period, I think he gives chilling performances, actually, in both films. I mean, he's the warmest guy in the world, but he does seem to play kind of renegade kind of fellow in both of the films.

That whole scene in the Irish film where he's talking about the fish prior to Jimmy being executed is incredibly well done.

It is. And it's so funny and horrible as they're going to shoot Jimmy Hoffa, that this is the conversation that's going on in the car and how funny it you know, I'm also so proud that Jesse Plemons as Tom White is in The Know. I think he is an actor. He is as pure an actor as I can imagine. I don't think he hits a false note. There's nothing that he does or says ever that I don't believe. And so I'm so proud that also that Jesse is in the film. But I'm glad that you're bringing up Lewis because I thought about it last night at the La. Premiere. It's like, Lewis is so brilliant. He's so funny and horrifying and horrible.

All of a he's.

That's the perfect kind of actor for Marty, which is a very dangerous but funny actor.

Yeah, I was like, that face is so unique and just his sensibility and you're right. I was like, I could see him in any role. And I bet you the fact he tell me such a warm guy is so funny to me. I'm like, I could totally see that. I want to go back to Goodfellows, if I may, because the other day, somebody had this terrible hair and someone goes, I look like Maury. And of course, the reference Maury's wigs never come off which is actor Chuck Lowe. Chuck Lowe of that entire cast. Like, again, it's remarkable. De Niro. And now late Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci et. But, like, tell me about Chuck Lowe because he's unforgettable as Maury.

Well, Chuck Lowe, I think, was Bob De Niro's landlord. I mean, Chuck Lowe, you know, when you do movies that Joe Pesci or Robert De Niro or Al Pacino are in they know a lot of so it's always kind of fascinating who they want you to meet and who those people are and what they do on both sides of the law. You never quite know where they're coming from. Did they train at the Actor's Studio? Very possibly. Were they the landlord down in Tribeca? Very possibly. So that's.

You mentioned De Niro, of course, you worked with them goodfellows Casino, the Irishman. And now this one. I saw there was a great piece in CBS This Morning and DiCaprio was discussing he know Marty's got a real shorthand with Bob, right? He goes he kind of just kind of looks at them, kind of crinkles his nose, says, yeah. And then they ask, Marty, what's your relationship with Leo? He goes longhand. And he gives that great Marty laugh. And then Leo's like, oh, long conversations, long things. Long things. Give me a story first about De Niro. Does he also have that shorthand with you? Kind of gives you a look like, Ellen, I like this actor. I don't like him. Does he do the same?

What? The way that I'm working, for the most part, is still very directly with Bob's performance. I think Bob, obviously, is one of the greatest living actors throughout the history of film. I think that Killers of the Flower Moon is one of his greatest performances. I'm really my dialog is with Marty. So I respect every single thing about Robert De Niro and I'm always happy to meet anyone that he wants me to meet. But I have to say that the long hand and the shorthand comment really made me laugh too because you could.

Totally see, like it's like when someone said, oh, De Niro's who recommended DiCaprio to Marty. What do you say? Marty goes, Well, Bob doesn't talk much. Leo's pretty good. You should work with him one day. That's it.

No, I mean, I have to say that I have a shorthand with just, you know, it resonated. The statement resonated with me. And I just think that anyone who is able to work in any capacity with Martin Scorsese is truly blessed because he's so inspiring, he's so enthusiastic. So from casting Goodfellas to casting Killers of the Flower Moon his enthusiasm about every project it's as if we're doing this for the first time which is how I approach my job, is if I'm doing this for the first time, we might have some familiar faces. Of course, there are people that I know that Marty really responds to and wants to work with. But then it's just thrilling to get to meet new people and nothing else I want to say because I'm just struck by it so much. You read a know, I work on the movie in the beginning of the film, but there's no way that I can ever imagine what it is that he is going to create in the cinematic language that he alone speaks. And I find it overwhelming and moving every time.

A couple more here, then I'll let her go. I always think just the cast. Again, so called minor characters. There's no minor characters, but goodfellows. Like that great know jimmy two times going to go get the know. How do you cast that guy? Who's the guy in Casino in the there's there must be so many different roles. These people are so critical to even think about a guy in a vice. But when Joe Pesci's putting Charlie T because of like, that actor is going to be critical. That's a memorable scene.

Yeah. I actually have to say and this could come more from my training when I worked for Juliet Taylor for eight and a half years, she would be kind of more concentrated on the leads. I love casting the day players. I love casting the smallest roles. I think that this is what gives texture and depth to a movie, are those faces are the believability of those small roles. I love in the beginning of Killers, the man who's selling the car, the man who's taking the photographs. I mean, I love casting those roles. And then what you have to be careful of are the faces. So you want to make sure that the faces have kind of a different feeling and that people are going to be able to differentiate. But I love that you're bringing up I mean, I do love I was in Las Vegas for about three months casting Casino and kind of word went out that we were there and people were just filing through. The man who throws up the chips when Sharon Stone in the opening of.

The mustache and the glasses. Yeah.

Man worked in a he. Those were his clothes and his glasses. I remember saying to wardrobe, I don't think you're going to have to do anything. This guy, I think he's ready to go.

All right, one more for you. The guy absolutely loves. And I had him on this podcast. I was with a friend of mine who's a terrific actor. We're watching. I go, you know, I love the scene in the Irishman with Pacino and Stephen Graham and De Niro. And Stephen Graham is late. And they get into it. I go, you know, the guy I love is that guy, Patrick Gallo. I go, that guy's fantastic. My budy goes, I'm going to go, IMDb I'm going to go and talk to information you're going to name on the podcast. Sure enough, hit him up. And I'm on Ellen. He was so amazing because I said, I just want to like you're with Pacino and De Niro. And you're like and I'm with, like I find it fascinating. Who's the fourth guy? How is he nailing the role? And he was like, you don't like I'm pinching myself. And Bob and Al both couldn't be more gracious. We do take after take. Marty's so generous. Marty treats me the same way he treats them. I swear to God, if I have an idea, if I have a thought, let's go for it.

If I have an ad lib, it's great. He goes, that's the kindest compliment I can make, is that they really treat you as an equal. Which is extraordinary to me right now.

I think that the collaboration know on everybody's. It does. It sounds like on the set. I know Marty talks to his actors, listens to his actors and look, I think that there can be times where it can be know. I've had this happen a couple of times on a film, and it is intimidating, and an actor can freeze. But I think that Marty's the kind of guy and I think if you're in a scene with Bob De Niro, he wants you to be, you know, all of those actors. Al's an actor's actor. Stephen Graham is a brilliant actor that we cast in Gangs of New York and obviously then cast in Boardwalk Empire and in The Know. And he's just like the warmest, greatest guy who can play a pretty scary character. But it's interesting. I love that you pay attention to those roles because that is what I really love doing.

This was such an education. Ellen Lewis, the outstanding casting director. Goodfellas Casino. The Departed Wolf of Wall Street. Irishman. Many, many more. I just wanted to focus, obviously, on these Scorsese movies and Killers of the Flower Moon, which is coming out. You got to go see it. It's amazing. Ellen, this was, like I said, such an education, such a pleasure. And I'll give a kidney just to do a read through in a Scorsese movie. Whatever you need.

I'm not look, I might want to try you at some you know, you never know. You could get that call.

You're the best. Thanks so much, Ellen.

Thanks. Bye.

All right. Take care.

All right.

Kills the flower moon. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I hope you all go see the movie. I hope it's a roaring success for Apple and all those kind people. I'm so lucky I got to be able to watch the film. I'm lucky to have Cinephile, lucky to have Chris Cody with me and the entire team here at Cinephile. Again, go to Apple podcasts subscribe rate and review. Thanks once again to Jack Fisk, the production designer, and Ellen Lewis, the casting director. Killers of Flower Moon. I'll take a deep breath. I hope you all see it once. I'm going to go see it a second time. And I'll see you at the movies.