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I am glad that the audience heard all of that because last week I was hugely disappointed that Amin Al Hassan's Antonio Banderas was just so much better off air than it was on air. But I'm happy to be with the crew of Odball here, Charlotte and Amin, because basketball is upon us. And before I get to the stuff that happens during the regular season, I just want to do one little bit of housekeeping with you guys from the preseason that I have not yet done. Charlote, are you aware of the work or the name Howard Eskin? Are you familiar with this person?

No.

Should I be?

No, not really.

No.

You did not. You did not. He is a Philadelphia radio gas bag from another time.

Okay. I took a real risk there. I was debating just being like, yeah.

Obviously, Vice Commissioner Howard Eskin.

Yeah, I'm like, for sure the owner of no. Okay.

Howard Eskin is a person who sort of personifies I would say whatever you think Philadelphia sports radio was in the he has birthed a child, Spike Eskin, from the tree of Sports Radio. And he is mad because during the preseason, LeBron James, on the bench in a yellow warm up suit, was eating something that looked delicious, like a chopped salad or something or a bowl of some sort.

I'm guessing it was something warm because it was in one of those black takeout containers with the clear plastic lid. And that, to me, for some like a salad to me, I'm like that comes in one of those paper, cardboard, eco friendly situations. I think this might have had something more maybe rice involved. That was my take.

The base was definitely rice was rice or quinoa carbohydrates.

There was some protein in there. As I told Charlote, that wasn't a snack. This wasn't him. Like, having some popcorn, even the way he starts eating when they kind of solo in on him chewing, that's the chew of someone who's eating a meal.

It was coal being thrown into a furnace. And Howard Eskin writes, total lack of respect for the game and his teammates by Lafraud James. Also looks like he knows it's wrong, asking teammate to hide him. Surprised he didn't ask for waiter service. And then he does do him the courtesy of tagging at King James. What are your thoughts there? Just because I did think it was funny to see him having what appeared to be a full mall court meal.

On the bench, I have the opposite reaction. This gentleman, Lefrod James. No. LeBron James has been at this is his 21st season. Let the man eat something on the bench during a preseason game. I also don't think we've reviewed the tape. We've watched this film. He wasn't asking Anthony Davis to cover him. Anthony Davis was wiping his head with a towel. And LeBron, I think, probably realized someone's seeing this and went a little bit behind it. It was convenient. I don't think he was trying to hide it.

No, I think he just happened to duck behind Anthony Davis as he's going in to shovel more food in his mouth. No, the funny I find interesting. Howard Eskin, first of all, going with Lafrade. Like, call him LeBron. Like, no, I got to come with something more biting, more sarcastic. Oh, witty. Oh, I know what I'll call him lafraud. Because Fraud and Braun have the awe sound in there, and it's kind of like it even though it doesn't rhyme, but it gets close enough. And then it said, you know what? But I am still a journalist. I owe him to know I'm talking about him at King James. So, you know, I speak truth to power. That's where he's coming from, right there. He really thinks he did something with Lafrade, and he really knows he did something by tagging him in it.

The oldest player in the NBA is where I was headed with all of this. Someone who knows that he has to eat early in order to keep his digestive tract right. Like the old people do before they go to bed so that they can get their sleep right. I can't believe that LeBron James is the oldest player in the NBA. I can't believe a number of things about him his entire career that he's still this successful at this age, defies science and physics. And all I know about human athleticism. The idea that his team can now I don't. Know who you put after Milwaukee as one of the favorites, but I believe the Lakers have gotten well enough and young enough around him that LeBron James is still in the conversation somewhere, which is fairly stunning, given his age.

I think their ODS are in the top ten to win the Finals.

Some of that is LeBron Lakers, right? Like, Vegas knows there's a lot of people who are within driving distance who are willing to come and lay down lots of money to bid on their favorite team, but it's staggering. I talked about this with Charlote. He's not holding on. This isn't Robert Parrish or Kevin Willis playing in their 20th.

He's their second best player or maybe their number one player.

Best player. He's their best player. He's our best player. He's one of the ten best players in the league at this age with this much mileage on him, right? Deep playoff runs, Olympics, national team play, 21 years, and he doesn't miss a lot of time. I think we've asked the question, when does the fall off happen? And now I'm beginning to think it'll never happen. He'll just be hurt more. That's the only fall off we're going to get.

It'll never happen. He's going to be 80 with a dialysis machine out there averaging 20 and ten.

Because here's the thing, Dan. We talked about this ten years ago, right, when he was still in Miami. When LeBron gets old, they'll just move him to power forward, and then he'll just dominate. When he can't jump anymore, he'll just be flat footed, but playing out the high post and passing the guys, cutting and scoring on guys who can't keep up with them. And it's like, yeah, I mean, he hasn't even gotten old to the point where, say, he's got to play power forward, he's still good enough to play wing. So I've resigned myself to thinking the only thing that's going to change, the only thing that has changed since he's gotten to La. Which is he gets hurt a lot now. And when he gets hurt, it takes him a long time to recover. That's the only thing I can see.

The favorite is obviously Milwaukee. And I saw that betting the betting favorite is Milwaukee. Yes. According to DraftKings, last time I looked, Milwaukee was the favorite, at least in part because of what I'm about to say. I think the best teammate Giannis has ever had is either Middleton or Holliday. Correct. Ever had. And now he's got a teammate better than that. And in the first game that they played together, giannis said he couldn't believe that they started double teaming in a preseason game. Right off of the first play, they started double teaming Damien Lillard. And I don't know. I mean, maybe you can untangle this one for me. I don't know how much better Middleton was made. I would not think of Middleton as a championship player if he hadn't played with Giannis. I don't know how much easier the game has been made for Middleton because Giannis is a vaguely unprecedented player in the way that he does things. But having Damien Lillard as his best teammate makes them how much better. Explain to me how the game is going to change for Giannis, because he now has this player better than any teammate he's ever had.

So when you look at Giannis specifically in the Bucks, their biggest deficiency was closing. Right. Someone at the end of the game to either take and make the big shot or make the big play for someone else. Middleton by de facto fulfilled that role, and he did, to the best of his ability. I think Chris Middleton is a good player. He's an all star. He's good enough to be an All Star because he plays on a great team. If he were on a bad team, I don't think he wouldn't be like Bradley Beal, for instance, where Bradley Beal can play on a bad team and still be looked at as an All Star caliber player. I don't think Middleton is that good, but he's good enough to clearly be an All Star while playing for a good team. Lillard is light years ahead of that in terms of his ability, particularly in the clutch. That is his strength. That is his calling card. He is the modern day Reggie Miller for people in the 90s. Reggie Miller was the most clutch for people in the 80s, was Larry Bird. For people of this era, it is Damien Lillard.

And so you gave them the thing that they've been missing all along, and in turn, Damien Lillard not the greatest defensive player in the world, right? But now he's surrounded with not one, but two perennial defensive Player of the Year candidates in Giannis and Lopez. And we know also from history that for the most part, when you take a poor defensive player and you put them in a great defensive environment, they get better. Look at what happened to Paul Pearson, Ray Allen, when Kevin Garnett came over to Boston, obviously Ray Allen came with them, but they've defended better than they'd ever defended before. Look at Alan Houston going from Detroit to New York. Like, these are guys that weren't thought of as defensive players. They were thought about as liabilities, but then you put them in that system. Steph Curry is another one to the point where Steph Curry is no longer a bad defensive player in his own merit. This is a guy who is a good defensive player, particularly in a good defensive scheme. Damien Lillard, I think, possesses all of those same attributes. Someone who can be better defensively if I'm surrounded by the right people.

So that's really what they're working with, is the symbiosis of I do something that you need and you do something that I need.

I also think that there's a hunger there. And I think that's what I haven't heard talked about as much from Dame. He needs to win a championship. He needs that for his legacy. I don't know how much he thinks about that. I don't know how much guys think about that. I would think about it a lot if I were him. And I think that he comes in with a fire that Giannis, all summer was saying, if you're not serious here to the Milwaukee, to the Bucks ownership, if you are not serious people, I am not going to stick around. And so they listened, and I said this on Abal. I think it's astonishing that an organization is well run enough to listen to its star player and get him what he needs. But I don't think we are counting Dame's hunger and desire for this enough. When we talk about how dangerous the Bucks are going to be from a.

Basketball perspective, ben Simmons, what are you expecting from him? Is that a case that is closed? I believe this is just echoing laughter that no one is expecting anything from Ben Simmons.

So I was one of the last people off the Ben Simmons train at the end of time, right. I was the one that, even as he was going through stuff in Philadelphia, I said, look, guys, if he plays and never gets any better, he's going to the hall of Fame because he defends all five positions at an elite level. He's an excellent passer. He led the league in assists and led the league in assists that led the three pointers. He's a great rebounder. When he puts his head down and gets to the front of him, he finishes. It's just this thing has been a sticking point. I'm like, look, he doesn't need any of that. He just needs to play. You know, that's the thing.

That's the thing. We have never seen this kind of mental short circuiting in this sport. Not Markel Fultz, not anybody. We've never seen somebody be what you just described, which is clear hall of Famer in terms of physical talent. Oh, the brain power is something that is making him short circuit.

Hear me out. What if he had to get to this point where the bar isn't even low, it's on the ground. All he had to do is step over. Maybe he needed to get here, and now he's going to because there's zero expectation.

That's what it is.

He is going to be great.

I think that's what it is, is he's reached a place where because Kyrie's gone and Katie's gone, it's all done, it's over. No one's looking at the nets as, you guys better do this. They get to play with that freedom of no one's paying attention.

You're expecting something from him?

I have high hopes for the mean.

I think they're going to be fun to watch, and I think they're going to win games, and I think he's going to play well because it's free flowing and there's no expectation.

You think he's going to rehab himself, that Ben Simmons is no longer going to be laughter, that he's going to surprise us and his confidence is going to be restored.

I'll die on that hill.

You need to do it more confidently.

Than you just did there.

Sure. You just died on that hill. A limp, limp death where you fought nothing by your own bayonet.

My last Ratle.

You stabbed yourself with your own bayonet, lacking confidence, charging on the hill and stabbed yourself in the face. No, she fell down and the bayonet is in her esophagus.

Never forget the sacrifice of Charlote Wilder on this.

I bled for this content.

Don Levitard.

We just got to change the language up because challenge just sounds contentious. Let's call it a politely disagree OOH.

How about this?

An oopsie.

There you go.

All right. Put it on the poll. At Levitard Show, should a challenge be called an oopsie to placate the referee's ego?

An oopsie flag stugats or the red flag? The challenge flag should not be called a challenge flag or the flag should say on it, love you, butt.

Red is also an aggressive color.

Very, very aggressive.

Maybe pink.

We should have them throw daisies and.

Call them whoopsie daisies?

Oh, yeah, it's a good idea.

Whoopsie daisies?

This is the Don Levitar show with the stu guts.

We're going to remain NBA intensive here throughout this hour. Mike Schurr will be here shortly to talk celtics basketball. We got the crew from Odball in here to talk heat and other things basketball related but also Jorge Sedano is here and he is going to walk us through some NBA stuff. I don't know how you feel, George, about everything that happened with the Miami heat and Damien lillard because a lot of people I think are enjoying the fact that they think that Miami got worse. Amin is the rare one with the opinion that the celtics did not get any better. That the Celtics, he thinks I don't think I'misrepresenting him even though he's sitting right next to me, has a microphone and can speak for himself. He thinks the celtics because of their injuries and because he is called drew holliday a corpse, he doesn't think the celtics have gotten better. Your general thoughts on the Miami Heat being an 8th seed, barely getting into the playoffs last year? Was what happened in the playoffs a real indication of who they are or was the regular season the better indication of who they actually are and now a year older?

If you look at the last four seasons, the playoffs are more indicative of who they've been over four seasons with that particular group than what that regular season was. They were the second most injured team in the sport. They also had I mean it just felt like at times, and I hate to say this about a heat team because no one really associates that with them, but it felt like they were mailing it in a little bit. Like guys were sitting know there's a lot more rest even though they were injured or whatever. I know that's a taboo topic but it didn't feel like a typical Miami heat team in that regard. Like, hey, we're going to go hardcore every game, 110% dive on the floor. It just didn't feel that way when I was watching them. It felt like for a heat team, strangely they were going through the motions. But I do think that they ascended to the mean particularly with their three point shooting because if you look at Gabe and Streus they were terrible during the regular season and then they shot more like they shot the previous season in the playoffs.

So they were the number one three point shooting team the season before last. Okay. And they were 26th last season. And then you saw in the playoffs they shot like the number one team.

I mean, are you able to discern these things? Because I generally speaking, I don't have the eyes that you guys have for some of this stuff. I think that when the shots aren't falling it's easy to say they are mailing it in. I can't tell you that when the shots are falling they are trying harder. I always think the heat are trying as hard as they can and sometimes those shots aren't falling and then you can make it a criticism.

I don't think you're mixing those two things up. Those are two different correct. They didn't shoot as well as they usually do. Also, sometimes George is saying they didn't.

Look like they were as engaged as they normally are. Two separate things.

Yeah, the shooting part for sure, because even when you look at the metrics of wide open shots, they weren't making wide open shots. Guys that were traditionally good three pointers could not shoot. And that changes everything. It changes how the defense guards you. It changes how they're coming on offense off a rebound versus off of a make. It changes a lot of dynamics. And it would explain why a team could go from the number one seed one year to the 8th seed the next year, not because someone had an incredible season in their conference. Having said all that, I think George is right in the sense that these last four years, this team has made the Finals twice in the conference. Finals game seven and one year they.

Lost in the first.

Who's been the best team in the conference the last four?

I mean, it's unequivocal, right?

By the way, if you look at the last five seasons of the NBA Finals, okay, going back to the Toronto Series of Golden State, there has not been a repeat representative. The only two that have actually been in there a couple of times, if memory serves me correctly, more than once are Golden State and Miami.

Miami.

Yeah. But that doesn't mean you can look at the regular season, say, whatever, it doesn't matter. They'll be fine when the playoffs get here. Because as we saw last year, they were twelve minutes away from not being in the playoffs.

Three minutes away.

Yeah. My hot take is they're going to get to the Plan tournament and lose this time.

Are you one of those one of those people you think they're not going.

To make the playoffs, they're done. They think they're better and deeper. They think they're better and deeper.

Let me tell you something about Jaime Hakeas, okay? I think that kid is legitimately good. I know we normally don't think four year college players are going to be good players in the NBA. This kid is smart, he defends, he is a coach's dream, that kid.

He's going to play, no doubt. And that says a lot in Miami for a rookie to come in and say he's going to play.

I'm wondering how much of my position has to do with being around Heat fans so much. I'm like it has that influence. Because I wonder. I'm like amin. Are you saying the Celtics aren't going to be better because I'm a Celtics fan? Does that play any part of it? Yeah, I think we're both being a little bit nudgenicks.

Ryan Cortez still calls me a coward because I said in 2017, I'd rather be the sixers, for God's sake, based on the way the Heat we're building with Dion Waiters and Hassan Whiteside. So Heat fans don't love me. Let's just start with that. But now I don't think Drew Holiday is a corpse like Amin says. I have real questions, though, about the Celtics. I am terrified if I'm a Celtics fan of Christops Porzingis. I'm terrified of we've taken our entire identity away on defense. And I'm also afraid of, hey, we are leaning offense because the coach likes offense. And I know that because I've sat with the coach and I remember having a game where they blew out Phoenix. I did their game, and in that pregame meeting, we talked about getting shots up, and he's like, no, we need to get more shots up and even more shots. That that's what he wants to do. And they've leaned into that.

That should be interesting. When Van Gundney comes in, that will be interesting.

I'm scared of all of those things, too, George. I'm also worried about what movie Joe Missoula is going to watch every night. This said, I was like, after the finals. I mean, after that's, the saddest Freudian. Oh, my God, after the Eastern conference finals, I was like, this man needs to go home and watch Manchester by the Sea every night until the season starts. Get the sadness out now. And then we come in and it's only Ted.

But listen, I know people think he stinks. I think he's a good coach. I do. Like, I feel like the takes were too harsh on him. He was clearly in over his skis against um early in that series, but they had the better team on paper than Miami did last.

Don't tell that to Will Mansell. He got upset when I said I said the celtics are clearly more talented.

They are, and I love Will, but the reality is the celtics, there are a lot of teams that are more talented on paper than Miami. Miami's secret sauce is not such a secret anymore, is Eric.

It's splulstra. It's execution. Their attention to detail and their ability to execute is why they are consistently why, when Dan says, who's been the best team in the east over the last four years, the answer is Miami. Not because of talent, although they do have some talent, but because they execute. They pay attention to detail. They do the thing that they set out to do more often than anyone else.

I'll ask you guys this, and I feel like Amin will have a good answer on this because he's worked in a front office. Miami, what they do best is they know their saying. They know how to find their guys. All those diamonds in the rough. Everyone talks about the development. They're the best at it because they know exactly what they need to fit around the pieces that they have. And I feel like it's elementary to think that every general manager and every front office thinks that, but I feel like sometimes they get away from that and dive into just talent accumulation.

I think that's 100% correct. I think the thing that I have said in my career of talking about sports more than anything else I've ever said is that environment determines so much more about behavior than individual characteristic or talent. You can have all the talented guys in the world. If you don't know what your mission, vision, values are, you're not going to succeed. Because that's the cohesion. That's what makes everybody rise up. And as much as it pains me to say it, because heat culture has become heat culture. It's so real. It's so real. Like all the GMs on the GM survey, I think it was like 99% said Eric's Bolster when asked, which coach has that dog in him.

That was not the question. That was not the great question. No GMs. I want that question on the survey next year. Which coach has the dog in him?

George. We're in a group chat with George.

Oh, yeah. I'm a big fan of dogs in.

Yeah, anytime the Heater do it something or whatever, he'll send this dog with sunglasses on. And I am so done with sunglasses down.

I'm done with I'm him and I'm done with a dog in can. I can have those eradicated from the.

Lecture be done with a dog in him ever. There is always a dog with charlote. I miss Marcus Smart every day of my life.

He's going to be good for Memphis because he's got that dog in him. Dan, don't be anti dogging him, okay? Dogging him is a real thing, and it's immeasurable.

I know you hate intangibles may be a real thing. What's not a real thing is no GM was asked, does Eric Spolstra have that dog in him? And there was not a consensus from the GMs on. Eric's Ballstra has the most rotweiler in him.

I think we should let Dan in our group chat.

Oh, no.

I do not want to be in a group chat where there is a dog wearing sunglasses, winking at me and tilts them.

Tilts. Don't forget the tilt. Great job. Yes, it is that.

Let's bounce around the league real quick. Zion Williamson, david Griffin says it's the first time he's taken conditioning seriously in an offseason. He comes out in the preseason, has four steals in a first quarter. Zion is going to end up being a nick at some point, or is he going to make New Orleans be a team that matters?

Well, I mean, is he going to be a nick at some point? That's a great question. I'm going to say, let's see, after probably Thanksgiving dinner. No, but here's the thing. Well, look, I said I'm going to stop when the season starts, and I still have a few more hours of Zion fat jokes to get in before I got to go there but my.

Life every day well, not today is.

The last day, except not Monday, except Mondays. Exactly.

My life since I've been 14, had a double chin and was wearing puka shells.

But the thing about Zion, Dan, because this summer, people were talking about, are they going to trade him? Remember, that was a conversation. And the reason why the answer is no is because when he's on the floor, he is legit hall of Fame caliber. No one has averaged that many points on that efficiency in the history of the game.

I mean, he's Shaq, but in a smaller frame with more athleticism even than Shaq. Well, not at the beginning. Shaq in Orlando was an incredible athlete, and with the Lakers even, too. But they were the three seed, Dan. When he was healthy, they were good.

They were good. When they're healthy over the last two or three years, they're good. It's just they haven't been healthy a lot.

How about Clay Thompson for four years at $30 million a year? Do you guys want Clay Thompson as a warrior? Four years, $35 million a year?

I sort of do, because I can't imagine anything else. And I think that when he's healthy, he's still I don't know when he's healthy. I know. I don't know. I don't have he was healthy last.

Year, yeah, but he wasn't the same either.

Offensively. He was defensively is where the slippage has gone.

But he was one of the best two way players in the league, and.

I don't think that's ever going to come back.

But $30 million when the star player is making 50 or 60 or more, that's actually not a terrible deal, I think. And you win with your fan base by keeping that core together and letting them ride it out into the sunset. And I'm also I mean, last week you accused me being in the tank for Mario Crystal ball. I'm in the tank for Clay Thompson, a, because my daughter Aria, that's her favorite player, and B, I work with Michael Thompson, his dad, very regularly.

Incredible Twitter account back in the day.

So biased.

I must say. This is journalism.

Unbelievable.

Don lebotard risk reward of going into the woods by yourself. You die or you see some trees. I'm not going to die to go see some trees.

Stu guts.

Listen to me. You've seen one tree, you've seen them all, okay? There's no special trees out.

This is nonsense.

This is the Don Levitar show with these two guts.

I need the help of the group here, amin Charlote and the newly arrived Mike Shure, because I want more joy in my life. I want more human interactions. And when I saw Mike Shurer, genuinely happy to see him, mike Ryan steps between us because he's gone full Hollywood, taking meetings with I got John Wicks guy at the Chartau, Chateau Marmont tomorrow, and I got this person over there, and he comes up to.

Me.

And he says, are we making hello? Or are we making content trying to get me to work immediately? Because he wants right now, as part of the cohesion and tapestry of this hour, our NBA preview to continue right now in this hour with Mike Schur and to do Celtics basketball now because basketball tips off and he wants us to have serious sports content.

And I thought it was particularly odd that he had those knee high boots and the pants tucked in and a little beret with the little bullhorn when he yelled at you.

And a riding crop. He had a riding crop at his.

Side and he was smoking and he kept yelling cut.

Can you explain to me, Mike sure. If you've ever seen this happen this quickly to somebody upon stepping foot in Hollywood, the power going immediately to their head. You've seen plenty of superficiality in this city.

This city will ruin people. I'm telling know, you land here and you're bright eyed and bushy tailed just off the plane from Miami, and you take one look around and the glitz and the glamor of just it's like a virus, man. And I worry for Mike. I don't think there's any coming back from this.

All that glitters isn't gold. Dan just remember that.

Thank you. I mean, are we going to do Celtics preview here? Because Charlote just looked at Mike and.

Said, wait, what did that mean? All the glitters is not in what way was that contributing to the.

Are.

You in you're in character as what? What are you in character as right now?

That's not a character.

I see the look in his eyes when he doesn't know. And he doesn't know.

So all of us let me just see if I understand what happens there. Hold on. You thought that the audience watching this right now would say, amin is deep in character right now, 1930s, 40s, Hollywood agent. And what he's going to say is a phrase that's so old that you're going to think it's a cliche, but he's thinking he invented it because he's from the 20s or thirty s, and this is the first time anyone's heard all that.

Glitters is not all the character backwork for him.

Dan yeah, because typically I do that character. I did that character off camera. I don't think I've ever brought that on camera, have I?

On main show.

On main show. I've never done it on odball.

I do it all.

Charlote charlie, you got to be a star. Charlotte charlie, this talent was made for you. Listen to me. I'll take you career places you never even seen. Charlote you got to trust me, though, Charlie. You got to trust me like I do that.

That would have been good. All of that would have been super helpful if I had known all of that.

Danny boy, let me tell you, this town, all that glitters isn't gold. That's an amenism.

You can take that one to the bank, but it's not helpful if I don't have the previous charlote. You are happy because Mike sure is here. And you can finally celebrate Celtics basketball in a safe environment without the defensive Mike Ryan, who, when he's not going Hollywood, is going to attack your face, telling you how much better the 8th seeded Heat were last year even though he didn't believe in them at all. Except for six minutes.

Well, yeah. Anytime I'm on the show talking about the Celtics, I'm either being told I'm not sad enough or my expectations are too high, which feels like a bar that is just there is no bar. The bar is, like, ether. The bar is just, like, floating around. And now, for the first time, I have another Celtics fan sitting next to me in the room like, we outnumber. Well, we don't really no, amin doesn't outnumber.

It's at least a fair fight, though.

Thank you.

Yeah.

And as I understand it, amin's read on the Drew Holiday trade is that the Celtics got worse. Is that your position?

My position is I don't understand this unbridled joy and enthusiasm behind this deal. I think they lost depth. I think they're putting their trust in one guy who has shown he's either hurt or about himself for most of his career. I'm talking about porzingis. Right. And when you talk about Drew Holliday, this is someone who is not as good as he used to be, but he's pretty much bartering off of this past reputation defensively. I mean, we saw it the last time we saw Drew Holiday on a basketball court playing defense, the guy he was guarding was screaming at him, you can't guard me. That's a pretty damning indictment. And then offensively, he's been on a downslide for years, but people kind of gloss it over, I think, for two reasons. One is he's genuinely a great human being that you want to root for. Right. And two is Celtics fans are searching for something to fill the Marcus Smart sized hole in their hearts, and Drew gives you glimpses reminiscence of, oh, yeah, I remember how that used to feel. Like, maybe he can be like my ex. But he's not your ex. He's not.

But let me ask you this, though, objectively. Forget about the love you have for a specific player as a fan of a team. If you were just an NBA GM and all of the players were in a giant pool and you were drafting and it came to you and you needed a guard and Drew Holiday and Marcus Smart were both available, who are.

You taking at this stage? Right now? I'm taking Marcus Smart. Really? I'm taking Marcus Smart.

Even though he shoots like 30% from.

Three, I get it.

But he earned those. Anytime Marcus Smart took a three, I'd be like and then I'm like, oh, but he did so much on defense. Let's just let him have it. And then when he hits it, you're like, yay.

That is how it is. She just articulated it. I feel like that's what celtics fans feel about Marcus smart. He's adorable. He's ours. He's so gritty. Oh, he's not good enough. The heat are better. Send him away.

Yeah, there's no send him away.

I had no send him.

She was crushed.

I was devastated when legitimately sad.

Yeah, but that's the difference between fan base and management. Management was like, no, we need someone better. We think Drew holiday is better than Marcus smart.

I think there was something else important going on that helped me get over this, because I loved him, too, which is it seemed like from a lot of anecdotes that came out during the season that there was this problem, which was it was Marcus's team, and everyone was deferring to him all the time, especially when he was on the court. But when he wasn't on the court, he was pouting because he wasn't on the court. And then when he was on the court, there was this sense of like, well, does Marcus think that what I'm doing is okay? And that's why at key moments, multiple times in the playoffs, the worst shot that was taken to win a game was a Marcus smart three. And that was the shot that ended up getting taken. That's a problem. And there was that anecdote where joe missoula, where butler was going crazy in the heat series, and jalen brown went over to Joe missoula, I think, and said, hey, I want to guard butler. And Joe's response was Ask Marcus. Wow, so that's not good. And so if that's the situation, it's not just to me about what he did for the team, his abilities, even his position on the team.

It's like, this has to become tatum's team. And if marcus was there, I don't think it was ever going to become tatum's team. And so I think that maybe there was a little bit of that calculation going on here where let's get a guy who I think as a total package is as good or better than Marcus smart as a player. And it might be that they needed to trade him to allow the team.

To fully he's making an argument on behalf of chemistry. He's making an argument on behalf of office.

That the isn't the NBA the place where that stuff matters maybe the most of any sport?

Absolutely. And I think that is a strong argument to make, except for the fact that people tend to focus on the parts that they don't like. Right. Oh, marcus said marcus takes bad shots and everyone defers to Marcus, but marcus is also the guy when they're who calls them out. And I don't know if drew hade is going to do that. Right.

In a way, sam hauser is going to do that.

There you go. Or peyton pritchard, the newly minted peyton Pritchard.

I mean, Peyton Pritchard, you did well for me. Have I watched some of those highlights multiple times?

Yes, you have. I know, because I have, too.

Yeah. Is that our hope? Maybe.

Wait, but can you guys really walk me through this? He's making the argument on behalf of hey Tatum. Jalen Brown, you're not leader enough, tough enough to wrestle this team away from Marcus Smart. We're going to send him away. Grow up and do it yourself.

He was the longest tenured guy in the team. He was the toughest guy in the team. He was the big brother of the team. And he did it really well, I think. And it's not that you can't have that. You do need that. I think it's just that as long as he was there, there was no chance that Tatum has to take over. He just has to take over that team. I think.

I think when that becomes the ceiling, when Marcus Smart's ability because of his influence on the team and because of the psychological role, I can see what you're saying. It's like you have to be able to move beyond that. And if he is controlling things and he's not comfortable moving beyond his own ownership of this thing, then you do start running into problems. And I wasn't in the locker room to know where that line was, but that did make me feel better. Mike, I did like what you said. I'm like, oh, okay, maybe.

And then amin. Here's the other thing. If you had same thing, you're a GM. All the NBA players are a have. There's timelord and there's Porzingis knowing both of their injury history. Who are you taking?

See, this is the interesting thing because Robert Williams has basically a clock on his knee. Yeah. It's going to get worse because he had the removal and not the repair. And so this degenerates over time. So, yes, there's an argument. You got to move him when his value is at its highest. And this is where it is. Having said that, however many games that dude missed in the regular season, he plays in the playoffs and he's incredibly impactful when he plays.

Yes.

And Porzingis, you can't say that about him because he's been on teams that haven't been good enough to go to the playoffs when they do. He hasn't really done much in that regard. And also not exactly a vision of health either. My biggest thing is when I look at the Celtics, three guys they lost smart, Williams and Williams. And that's like their three toughest guys with the biggest, to use a Sedano phrase from earlier, dogging them. They got the dog in them.

I brought that's.

I'm sorry.

Thank you. Women in sports, classic women in sports.

Sedano's always texting the dog.

I know, I know.

I hate it. You guys need to stop with the dog. I agree.

Enough of this.

But I will say, though, what amin is saying there is super interesting because people got on me for saying the heat just broke up that team. Now I'm doing that provocatively just to be an asshole. But they did take away the three pieces that were the toughness pieces. And now mike sure is in here arguing to me, hey, tatum didn't have the strength to take the team from marcus smart. It had to be given to him. It had to be handed over to him so that he can be the ball.

I'll say something else, grant williams has that dog in him. Correct. However, grant williams is also the guy who, when he was fouled and was getting taunted on the court, was very clearly mouthing the phrase, I'm going to make them both. I'm going to make them both. And then he missed both. So the dog in you gets you to a certain level of success. And then also there need to be people who actually can make free throws. And so, look, I would rather have this just preseason. Celtics are running their offense. It's basically, as far as I can tell in my limited knowledge, the same offense they were running last year. But the ball swings around, there's penetration. The ball gets kicked out. It's now in the hands of porzingis who shoots 39% from three, and instead of marcus smart who shoots like 14% from three.

But they're cute.

Look, all this stuff, all this stuff is real. Those were the three of the toughest guys on the team. But this skill on the court right now to me seems better. And I think this team has been so close for so many years now. They've played deep into the playoffs every year for seven years and I think something had to change. That's my optimistic.

He makes a good argument.

He makes a good argument.

Can I leave on this high note? I feel incredible.

He makes a good argument right up juju, put it on the poll, please. Does that dog in him have a good free throw shooting because because he's so right about going. It doesn't seem like they're going to be tougher.

I find that hard to believe unless someone else takes a step up and says, I will assume that mantle drew holiday brings toughness for sure.

But I don't need him. I just need silky smooth jason tatum to be really amazing at the end of games.

You're way underestimating how tough sam hauser is, all of you.

And peyton pritchard, you mentioned that.