Welcome to Pablo Torres Finds Out. I am Pablo Torres, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

I don't have a problem telling someone a to their face?

Right after this ad.

You're listening to Girof Kings Network.

Okay, so this episode is going to be different from the episodes that you might be used to, and I do need to explain why. There is one specific story that pretty much everybody in my life who is not a diehard sports fan has been totally obsessed with, and asking me about, and asking, and asking to the point where I became obsessed with it, and I started asking other people about it, too. But the whole thing here, for me, I must admit, as a journalist, is that it's a little shameful because this story, the story I've been quietly probing for a while now, is all about the romance between Larsah Pippen, a real housewife of Miami who was married to Scottie Pippen for 24 years until December 2021. And Marcus Jordan, who just so happens to be Michael Jordan's kid. And so Liza, age 49, and Marcus, age 32, and they now say a wedding is in the works.

What's the.

Possibility of a marriage happening.

Between you.

And Lars?

We're looking for a location.

Marcus and Lars were leaving Jones and Weehowe, and the cameras ask.

Them.

Like, Hey. Do you guys have a date?

It's in.

The.

Work. Oh, my God.

Which, fair reaction, because the other important bit of context here, obviously, is that Michael Jordan and are the most famous and most successful duo in sports history and also maybe human history, now that I think about it. Everybody knows this story, right? The greatest superstar ever, the greatestag gig ever, combining to be not just first ballot Hall of Famers, but six-time champions with the Chicago Bulls, the greatest team ever. As chronicled in The Last Dance, ESPN's massively popular documentary from 2020, a documentary that Scottie hated, by the way. As this excerpt from the autobiography he published after The Last Dance came out, made extremely clear.

I was nothing more than a prop. His best teammate of all time. He called me. He couldn't have been more condescending if he tried. Each episode was the same. Michael on a pedestal, his teammate, secondary, smaller. The message no different from when he referred to us back then as his supporting cast. From one season to the next, we received little or no credit whenever we won, but the bulk of the criticism when we lost, Michael Jordan, would never have been Michael Jordan without me, Horace Grant, Tony.

Kuko, which is all to say that the ultimate sidekick, the ultimate beta has very publicly broken up with the Alpha of all Alphas.

Watching you and Michael on the court, it looked like two best friends out there just crushing everybody. What was your relationship like off the court? It wasn't what you saw on the court.

And what we're seeing now is that guy's ex-wife, the mother of Scottie Pippen's four kids, dating the son of the guy he has been feuding with, a son who last played organized basketball, incidentally, at the University of Central Florida. And all of it has dragged both Scottie and Michael, who are already clearly both just incredibly image conscious, into this real-life soap opera, which is unlike anything I have ever seen before. In fact, this story raised so many questions for me that a couple of months ago, I enlisted the help of not one but two friends to seriously investigate whether this relationship, this whole thing was even real. And one of them, producer Ryan Cortez, you already know. Cortez loves reality TV, unsurprisingly. He loves The Housewives, loves vendor pump rules on Ironically, all that shit. Our other friends and Charlotte Wilder, you may know as co-host of Edball, Metallark's NBA show. And she also speaks fluent, bravoise. But before we meet Marcus and Lars ourselves, I do feel like you should know something else about what Larkus has been up to recently, and Charlotte, too. Charlotte Wilder, first off, I feel like Ryan, we should say congrats.

You guys, thank.

You so much. For what?

I mean, for finding love in a hopeless place. Love. Well, I.

Don't know. But thank you guys so much. Yes, I did get married this past summer. It was lovely, very low key, which is how we wanted it, which is also a few weeks before is when I got the call from you.

Yeah, I want to apologize as well as congratulate you.

Tell me why you're.

Sorry, Pablo. Because I called you as you were getting ready for the consummation of your love. And I assigned you a story about love that must have felt very callous because I just unilaterally decided that you had to do this.

With this. No, it was one of the better calls I've ever gotten in my career. For those of you who were not on the phone, which is everybody but me and Pablo, Pablo was like, Hey. And I'm standing outside a fish store and with my mom, I'm like, Okay, you go and get... Pablo is calling me and there's traffic going by. He's like, We have to do an episode on Marcus Jordan and Lars to Pippen and the fact that they're together. I was like, Yes. A car whooshes by. I'm like, What? That's how this all began.

Then I think I called you back and I was like, By the way, Cortez is in. Also, it turns out they have a podcast.

I was like, Let.

F*cking.

Go. I want to cut through the noise of this because what I have asked both of you to do, and you did it to varying levels of enthusiasm. Begrudgingly, because you made me. Yeah, for Cortez, who somehow loves reality television but hates this, I had us listen to all of the episodes of Separation, Anxiety, which is the podcast hosted by Marcus and Lars who will now get first name basis with us because we've been living with them in our ears for weeks, months now at this point.

No disrespect to them, but it's one of the worst podcasts I've ever heard.

Okay. So, spoiler alert. Spoiler alert.

No disrespect.

No disrespect.

No offense, but...

I guess I should just play how it begins for people who are not lucky enough to have listened to this show.

Hi, guys. I'm Lars Pippen. I'm on The Real House of Miami.

I'm Marcus Jordan, CEO and founder of Trophy Room. We're here for our first episode of our podcast. What's it called there?

Separation anxiety.

Separation anxiety with Lars.

And Marcus. I love that. We sound so.

Cute with that. I love it, too.

I am going to hear Marcus Jordan's voice in my head going ha ha ha when I'm being lowered into my grave. And then Lars is saying, I love it, babe. The way they introduce themselves here, she says, I'm Lars Pippen. I'm on The Real House of Miami. He says, I'm Marcus Jordan, CEO and founder of Trophy Room. What you actually are, the way the public knows you, is you are Scottie Pippen's ex-wife and you are Michael Jordan's son. Yes. This, I think, is very telling about the whole way they structure this of wanting to... They're trying to take something back, as we will find out. But that, I think, is a big clue.

But this textual reading of this podcast is why I wanted to do this because they are telling their own story in-depth. And so, Trophy Room, by the way, is a Jordan brand store in Chicago. This is, again, a literal Michael Jordan thing that he is identifying as his thing. But also what he's identifying is the title of the show, Separation Anxiety, which is about how they can't bear to be apart. Marcus tells the story about how they met four years ago in the most romantic place on Earth, which is the VIP room of a Jordan Brand party alongside Fat Joe.

Anytime there's an event like that, I like to be the liaison for people to get close to my dad, get in the top secret section. And so I think it was either Joe or DJ Khaled texted me and was like, hey, we'd love to see pops. And you just happen to be with them. And so I finessed away for everybody to get in. I just found myself staring at you across the room and wanting to talk to you and get to know you more. Plus, we've got a lot of mutual friends.

Do you? Who could that be?

Can we talk to you about that? We started the pod with their introduction, and he's the CEO of Trophy Room or whatever. He could also have introduced himself as, Hey, I'm a liaison for people to get close to my dad. That's what he does, dude.

Well, this is the part about the mutual friends, right? It's like, yeah, maybe mutual friends like Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, once upon a time, are those the mutuals you're describing? So all of this is the backdrop, incidentally, for Marcus courting Lars. And oh, yeah, it's romantic.

So every time I would be in Miami, we would not say, Hey, I'm in town. What you up to? Where you at tonight? And I feel like it just gradually happened over time.

Yeah. It's crazy because I thought you were like my homie for a long time. Yeah.

They spend a lot of time talking about how they weren't dating at first and how they were just friends. And it's like a lot of this podcast, something I think of whenever I was listening to this is if you have to say it, it isn't true. The amount they're trying... And it reminded me, this is for you, Cortez, of something Tyler Hero said the other day.

Oh, he has my attention.

He said, I know my value. I know I'm one of them ones, and I don't need to say it. I'll show you. But he just said it. Right. We talked about that on oddball, shameless plug. Yes.

Good pod. Saying the thing without saying the thing while looking like an ass with the headband and the floppy hair. I love Tyler Hero.

But he did say the thing. He did say the thing, and they just keep saying the thing that they could show but somehow don't.

Fully maybe. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of telling. A lot of telling. Not so much showing. Marcus Jordan, just to recap here, Michael Jordan's son begins to try and win the heart of Scottie Pippen's ex-wife. Yes. I just feel like I need to keep saying that in part because they don't say it, but also because how does that happen exactly behind the scenes?

Yeah. Let's hear it from them.

I don't know what it was, but I felt like at dinner I was looking at you like, God, he's really cute. And then that night at Liv, I felt like, no, he's hot as fuck. Thank you. And then it was just like I never viewed you like that before just because I figured this was off limits. It was not something I wanted to go to war for. I feel like you have to pick and choose your battles. I wasn't sure that this battle was going to be- That's true. I was skeptical because I felt like, Why would you do this, Lars? Why would you do this? Why would you date someone that just the families? It's just a really crazy situation to be in.

I mean.

Okay, she finally says the thing.

I mean, this is like Romeo and Juliet.

Yeah, yeah.

A forbidden love.

I feel like this was off limits. The two biggest teammates in basketball who now hate each other. Yes. And she's like, I felt like it was off limit. Not to me it wanted to go, What? You think?

You think it was a little off limits?

But what changed for her, if you read it, what she's saying is like, he's so hot that now it is on limits, which is a crazy delineation factor for her on what swinged it.

He's.

Hot as shit, Cortez.

But, I mean, just think about making the decision to enter this relationship as either one of these people. You're saying, I want to be half of truly the most ridiculous tabloid story in sports. This is explosive in ways that are obvious. It also is so explosive that it feels, again, engineered. I think a lot of people's hypothesis about this is this is a put on. This is fake simply because the incentives are so obvious. Because, of course, this is a tabloid mad lib.

It feels like what could you do if you were Marcus Jordan or Lars Pippen and you wanted to get the most possible attention?

Yes.

It feels like, well, obviously you would get together and talk about getting married.

And you would also say that it took not as long as you might think for them to say how much they love each other.

How many days do you think it took, do you remember, for you to tell me you love me?

I feel like I can count it on one hand. I think it was like three, four days where I was like, damn, I think I love you.

I would run for the hills. That's the scariest. That's like...

They started as, by her words, I thought you were my homie, friends without any of this. Then there was some point randomly we're in her head, she knew it was off limits. And then she's like, He's really hot now.

Yeah, she felt in her loins.

And then three days later, they're in love. So if people are looking at that and they're like, That's not real, you could see why somebody might deduce that, right?

How dare you?

Yeah, Cortez. How many episodes of this did we listen to?

At Last Check, there were, I believe, a Baker's dozen.

I mean, that's a lot. I started going too speed on this. But Larsa never says Scottie's name, except when she says Scottie Jr, talking about her son, which feels even more intimate in a way to me. But she says, My ex, she says, When you break up with someone respectfully.

For instance, I remember when my ex played in Portland, Oregon. I could handle my kids with or without my ex. When I met my ex, I didn't even like him. My experience with my ex was not bad. All the news media is saying that I'm getting half of my ex's pension.

Yes, all of that. But also in certain ways, she doesn't bash him. No. She will, on the same breath, say like, Would you tell your kids to date an athlete? And she's like, Yeah, my experience with an athlete was fine. Or she might even use the word good.

Marcus frames it a little bit differently.

Would it matter to you if your partner had been with several high profile people.

Before you? I don't think so, do you?

I mean, obviously not. I think you've been linked to some notable people in the past. No, I don't think that that bothers me. It's just part of the game, I guess.

This is where I was just yelling at my phone. Yes, same. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to this show and being like, I am here for one reason, and you're not saying the reason. Say his name. Say Scottie Pippen's.

Fucking name. They don't give us details. They dance around the elephant in the room, even when they're talking about the elephant in the room.

And just for some more context, the way she frames that relationship on The Real Housewives of Miami is more like, I was taking care of everything. Scottie was away. Scottie was doing this. I took care of the house. I took care of the kids. So you feel a love of they're disconnected and so forth.

I just want to point out that Cortez, unilaterally, decided to just watch The Real House of Miami. I did not asking him to do that.

Cortez was like, I'm on it. I got Real House of Miami. We were like, Okay. We're like.

Knock.

Yourself out. That show sucks as well. They are a bunch of fake Miami people. She's on My Real House of Miami living in Fort Lauderdale. Like, come on, bro. What are you doing?

Oh, well, even I know. Even the most New England person in the world knows that that's not the same thing. When you talk about the disconnect, Cortez, the name of this podcast is Separation Anxiety. Regardless of what you think about this, she is with someone who she is joined at the hip with, and he doesn't have to go away. He's not playing basketball. Well, he tried. He's not. And so they can just be together. And maybe there's something about that that is very appealing to her after basically being the CEO of a family while her husband did the incredibly demanding job of being a professional NBA player.

And so I should point out that as you get deeper into this podcast, It to me, I actually began to feel because so much of their stories end up being fairly mundane and about how much time they spend together, I was like, I can actually see why they get along. I was like, I buy this. I don't think they're showing up as actors to goose the algorithm and then disappearing. I think they're actually spending a whole lot of time together. Oh, yeah. And you ask each other questions to pass the time, questions like this.

Okay, so let me ask you a question. What's the one movie that you can watch over and over again?

The one movie I can watch over and over is The Last Dance.

Oh.

My gosh. I mean, we don't need to go into that.

So this is where.

I was like- I can't.

Even- Yes, finally. Marcus, finally. I was listening to this podcast thinking a lot of the time about how Scottie Pippen might react to what we're hearing. And that part, if I'm Scottie Pippen, I would have punched a hole in my computer. The backdrop on this, Scottie Pippen.

Hated.

The Last Dance. No one hated The Last Dance, the giant epic film that ESPN put out with Michael Jordan about Michael Jordan more than Scottie Pippen.

If you are giving Marcus a benefit of the doubt here, if you're saying, okay, if you are acting in good faith, if you do love this woman so much, if you're not really trying to rock the boat, which I don't think it's mutually exclusive, I think they can be in love. And there's something he's getting out of this, something that she's getting out of this. But you would not say, The one movie I can watch over and over is The Last Dance, especially because the movie that your ex hated the most that he wrote a book. You can't tell me that's not a little bit poking the bear, especially when Marcus is only in the tiniest, tiniest little bit at the end. He's an afterthought.

But this is the thing. What if Marcus Jordan authentically just loves The Last Dance? And that's the actual right answer. I think all of these things could be true. It's that he is both cheekily poking at Lars's ex. And also, it's true, it seems to hold up that Marcus Jordan's favorite thing in life is swimming in the mythology of his family. And so I believe this, too. Again, it finally feels like the juice we're demanding. And also, I think he actually loves this. I think of him as Kemdell Roy. Oh, my God. I think there's some succession here.

Wait. Also, Michael Jordan has three kids, two boys, one girl.

Yeah, we're here.

Wow. Although, isn't Marcus the younger son?

Marcus is not the eldest boy. It's fair. It's a fair point. He's not the eldest boy. But we should point out here, as we theorized that we reached out to Scottie Pippen because we are journalists for comment, he did not respond. Coward. All right, just jumping in here to say that we do not think Scottie Pippen is actually a coward. In fact, I feel for him. This story to me is also about how Scottie is, in some sense, again, getting humiliated by Michael Jordan. And that sucks, objectively, even if it is not Michael actually doing the humiliating. And we should also say that we did reach out to Michael. We reached out to Michael Jordan's spokesperson, and they told Pablo Torre, finds out that Michael had, quote-unquote, no comment on his son's relationship with Lars Pippen.

Coward.

I'm sorry to get academic on all of you, but this could not be more Freudian if it tried. The definition of daddy issues that Freud wrote about was the child forms a strong attachment with a parent of the opposite sex and feelings of competition towards a parent of the same sex. A lot of this has been debunked. A lot of psychologists and psychologists now are like, I don't know. That feels pretty simple. But by this old definition, it's like, oh, my. I do not mean to armchair, psychologize anybody here, but it just hit. It's Shakespearean. It's Freudian. It's everything that myths, the Greek myths. It's like all of the things that you had to read in school.

No, it demands the question of how much of his relationship with his dad is the motive for why you would do this. There are so many people on the planet. Is your love really so blind that it happened to arrive at the one person that would demand attention, the most possible from your father?

And, Lars, the same question in relation to Scottie. Would you do this to potentially upset that person?

And then, guys, after listening to the podcast, part of me is like, Yeah, maybe. Like, maybe their love is that blind. Maybe they were like, This is the only person in the world I have to.

Say it. I know.

I was brainwashed a little bit, but also maybe both of those things are all true at the same time.

We reached out to Michael Jordan for comment. He did not respond, but he did have this thing in Paris in July where he responded to the paparazzi.

Hey, Mr. Jordan, what do you think of that? All of us and lots.

Of people together.

Do you approve of it?

No.

You don't approve? Do you approve? No. No. I can't believe it.

It's so, oh, my God. That video is also just burned into my brain. I close my eyelids and I see Michael Jordan walking to his car saying, No.

What was the headline after that?

Yeah, the TMZ headline is, quote, Michael Jordan, colon, hell, no, I don't approve of sun-dating, Lars Pippen.

I mean, he didn't say hell, no.

He did not say.

Hell, no. I always try to defend the salacious headline, but that's tough to defend, to take a no and to turn it into all.

But I will say this, it felt like a hell no to some of the people involved that turned out. Because one of my favorite parts of this entire saga of listening to this podcast is hearing Marcus's behind the scenes accounting of what actually happened after that clip.

When I heard this, I was walking as I want to do when I'm on the phone or listening to anything, and I stopped in my tracks and my jaw dropped. And I was like, he did not just... This was not just his explanation.

He gets asked the question, does he approve of our relationship or something? And at first he laughed. Kind of like how I laugh. I think I laughed at a lot of the questions that we go through on this podcast. But he laughed. And then the reporter, I guess, asked him again, and he let out an emphatic no, and then shook his head again as he was walking into the car. Obviously, my whole family, we're all competitive. The Jordans is like part of our DNA is to talk shit. For me, obviously, we knew ahead of time because he texted and called me and wanted to make sure that I didn't take anything the wrong way. I can only assume because I know my dad loves Cincoro, he drinks tequila all the time, that he was feeling himself a little bit walking. He was feeling good. He was on vacation. He was feeling good. He was feeling good.

I hate to be so cynical. I don't know that I believe this. I don't know because the most animated Marcus ever gets on this podcast is when he is talking about his father reacting to him. The most animated we ever hear him is when he is like, and he let out an emphatic no. And it's like triumph. There's a triumph in it because he's- 100 %. -he might not have said, Yes, I approve. But he said he was paying attention. Almost better than a yes is a no. They got under his skin. They affected him. If he'd just been like, Yeah, sure, whatever. I don't think it would be as satisfying to Marcus based on how he has responded to other things, totally speculating here, then that emphatic no.

He was forced to acknowledge him. Michael Jordan was forced.

To acknowledge Marcus. And not only acknowledge, but have an opinion about.

Then Marcus does the one thing that they never do, which he says the forbidden name.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that obviously he thought of the timing. His goal has always been to stay clear of our relationship. I think, look, at the root of it all, obviously, is my dad's relationship with your ex, Scottie. And so obviously, we never talk about that. I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that.

Yikes. Finally.

Finally.

Okay, so he did.

Comment on that. I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that, except for when he yelled, No.

I just can't imagine being in a relationship with someone where there is the entire story of your relationship is based on other people, and you don't talk about those other people. That's insane.

I mean, you guys remember the Hall of Fame induction speech that Michael Jordan delivered? Oh, my God. Classic. The most iconic Hall of Fame speech.

Ever to me. Crying Jordan gave.

Us Crying Jordan. Yes, it's what birthed Crying Jordan, but it.

Was- He took out some people, right? I don't remember the specifics.

Well, he criticized everybody. Inadvertently or maybe just authentically, he took out his own kids.

In a big way.

Yeah, like Marcus is on-screen when he says this.

Obviously, you've seen my kids, Jeffrey, Marcus, Jasmine. I love you guys. I think you guys represent a lot of me, a lot of different personalities. Your mom, you represent them as well. I think that you guys have a heavy burden. I wouldn't want to be you guys if I had to. Because of all the expectations that you have to deal with. I mean, look around you. They charge a thousand dollars tickets for this game, for this whole event. It used to be 200 bucks. But I paid it. I had no choice. I had a lot of family, a lot of friends I had to bring in. Thank you, Hall of Fame, for raising ticket price, It's true. And so.

That's the backdrop for Logan Roy and one of his sons who wants attention, who's never quite good enough, who wants to matter.

It is so sad to me. It also makes me think of what we played earlier when he says, My family's competitive. This is how we interact. That's their connection, is when they're nagging each other.

I mean, imagine you grew up the son of Michael Jordan. At some point, you just began to believe that your dad is not like other dads, that your dad is actually like Zuse. And all you want from Zuse to return to this larger theory is for him to give a shit about you.

Marcus just opened himself up to this. Marcus put something out into the world with not quite enough information, but just enough that we can start to try to understand him. And I don't get the sense, at least, that he fully knew what he was signing up for. As we talk about this, not to get too meta, I keep thinking about them listening to this episode. And how would they feel hearing Marcus and Lars. -marcus and Lars, hearing us talk about their relationship like this that they ostensibly wanted us to be talking about because they talked about it on a podcast.

About them?

Yes. How do you think you thought it would play out? I don't know if he did.

I feel like to get even more meta, I feel like we should probably ask them. And that's after the break. Hello. Hello, hello.

Hi there. I don't know if.

They can.

Hear us. Oh, we can hear you guys. Where are you guys right now, by the way?

We're.

In L. A. Okay.

Yeah, when Lars is not filming the show in Miami, we're based out of here just because our kids are here.

Guys, I should say that this is a very surreal thing for us because Charlotte and I and producer Ryan Cortez, who's hiding behind the glass like a coward. We've listened to every episode of your podcast. I'm a little nervous.

I'm very nervous. It's like being inside your podcast. You guys have been inside our ears so much that I'm like, Oh, my God.

We're excited to be here.

You guys. Oh, yeah.

Let's do this. Right. I should point out for our podcast audience that Marcus and Lars are sitting very close together, arm around the other, sipping Marcus's a nice cup of coffee, smiling, radiant. And behind the glass here, our producer, Ryan Cortez, is one of the haters. So he's like, I don't believe this relationship is real. This is engineered. This is too... It's too on the nose, guys. That's what he says. And I've heard that across the Internet. So what do you say to such people who still have doubts about this?

Can we swear on here?

Absolutely. Please. I was.

Just going to say fuck them. That's my mentality is to fuck them all because I just feel like we complement each other in so many different ways that whatever she's having a good day, I'm there to support her and vice versa. And soI don't know. I feel like we're living in our truth and anybody that isn't happy about it can piss off.

I guess part of me does wonder, like when you guys met and you started dating, Larcy, you even say on the podcast, you're like, Oh, my God. Is this worth it? I know what's going to come with this. There's so many fish in the sea. Do you think any part of you were attracted to each other to the idea of the relationship because it felt a little taboo or a little dangerous? No, not.

At all. Once we started hanging out more and more together, we just were attracted to each other. And we are so much alike that it's crazy. I know, esthetically, it probably doesn't look good. And I feel like when people see us together and hang out with us, they're like, It makes sense. But I think just to hear of it, it doesn't resonate well with people.

I think the more time that people spend around us, they realize that it's genuine.

Well, listening to you guys talk about it at length, that it becomes clear at the very least, if you guys are putting on a show here, you're putting a lot of time into this show.

First of all, you guys, who's got time to... I already have a show. Here in a business, who's got time for Hocus Pocus? We don't. I don't. I have five companies, you guys. I have four kids. Who's got time for that? And we clearly don't need to fake a relationship for over a year. Who would do that? I would never do that.

So the question I have, though, is because you guys are also, and this is the part that extra breaks my brain, is, Larsa, you are a reality television star. And so the thinking of the pros and cons, take us to the pros and cons list you must have been making in your head when you guys are just now contemplating romance.

You know, I think for us, because we were friends before, I just knew that it would be hard for us to date. I just knew it was impossible. How could I date Marcus? It's impossible. And then the more and more time we spent together, it was like the pros were... There were so many pros, you guys. It was like a list of a billion. And the cons were our last names. And that's literally what it was, our last names. I'm not concerned with my ex or Marcus's death. We're both adults. I don't ask my ex who he dates. I've never said one bad thing about my ex. I wish him nothing but the best. I feel like for me, the only thing that I care about is my happiness, Marcus's happiness, and my kids that are affected by us being together. And I feel like my kids love him and he fits in our family so effortlessly. And it's just like an easy relationship. And I also want to say, and I feel like we have a lot in common, maybe because we're both from Chicago, we both grew up in the same place. Marcus was friends with my brother-in-law, played basketball with my brother-in-law, not including me for years.

It's like his circle. He knows all my cousins.

Yeah, I like to say we're cut from the same cloth in that.

Chicago upbringing. Well, also the Chicago Bulls jersey. That literal club. I mean, guys, this is the part that's.

I wish I could take credit for the whole Chicago Bulls run, but I was a senior at UIC when Scottie played with Marcus's dad. I was in college. I was 21 years old when they played together. I was only there for one year. The last year they played together, and I was never in Chicago with his dad again. So it wasn't like people think like, Oh, she was there the whole time. I was in high school.

And Marcus, did you have a relationship with Scottie? I was looking through Instagram and that he reposted Trophy Room in 2017. Has that been a factor at all?

No, I wasn't even aware of that. No, I saw him whenever he was around my dad, and that's what it was. But no, I wouldn't say that we had any type of relationship now.

What's it like, Lars? Have you been around Michael while in the relationship that you have with Marcus? I want to imagine that if it's happened. What can you tell us about what that is like?

I don't want to talk about Michael. I don't want to talk about my ex. I feel like we're really comfortable talking about us. I feel like our families just want us to be happy. And I feel like I don't want to put too much emphasis on your family or my family other than us and my kids that are affected by our relationship. Other than that, no one's really affected by our relationship.

To be honest with you. I think the main thing for my dad was like, look, you're a grown adult. Grown ass man is what he said. Is that.

What he texted you?

Yeah, exactly. He was like, you're a grown ass man. You can make your own decisions. Ultimately, as long as I'm happy, he's happy. And so he's never intervened in my dating life prior to Lars, and so he's not going to start now.

But Lars and guys, I totally understand you. This is a diplomacy that I'm impressed by because it feels like as reality television is concerned, you guys are leaving some juice on the table. If you guys were messier, I think the potential of this to be an even bigger tabloid internet-breaking story would be obvious to me, Lars. And yet you're clearly not interested in that degree of mess.

Well, there's no mess. Do you know what I mean? I'm not like that. I don't want the smoke. I want none of that. I just want to be happy. And I feel like together we make each other happy. I know I've read things online that basically people are like, Oh, she's trying to get back at her ex. And I'm like, It's none of that. I've never been that person. I would never, ever in a billion years try to do that. That's not my intention. But if you meet someone and you have a great connection with them and they make you happy and you fall in love with them, then that's what it is. It's not like we're hurting anyone. It's not like we're just both happy. So I think people should just be happy for us. The same way I would be happy for someone that found love. I am a romantic person. I would.

Be happy for that. Charlotte just got.

Married, by the way. I did, yes. Okay.

Congratulations.

When's the wedding, you guys?

Speaking of which, how about you guys?

Exactly. It's in the works, is my go to saying right now. I don't think we have a date. We're still talking about locations and party size and all of that stuff. So it's not really concrete yet, but it'll happen.

Marcus, do you want your dad to give a toast at your wedding? How does this work?

Yeah. Look, I was the best man at his wedding. And so in the best man at my brother's wedding. And so obviously we'll keep that tradition going. It's my thoughts on it.

I want in. I want video cameras there.

Now that I've been on the Housewives in Miami, all the producers are inquiring around, when is the wedding? Are we going to film it on TV? Yada, yada, yada. And so that's another thing that we're playing along with is whether or not it will air.

What are you leaning towards? And what is it like being on that show? And your love is so real, but you guys also are so intriguing because of who you are. So what's the balance there?

Obviously, look, we're very private people with the Jordans. And so if it was up to me, I think we would do maybe multiple weddings, one private for our family and friends, and then maybe there's one that's a little more public. But I guess time will tell.

I'm noticing Lars is very diplomatic about this subject as well.

It's not my story, you guys. When you were talking about I don't give up names, I don't feel like I don't really want... If it's my story about me, I'm very transparent and I'm very open. But when it's someone else, I feel like I try to be sensitive to someone else's feelings. And so I don't like to use people's names unless they're present in the room and they can defend themselves and their story because there's two sides to every story. And I feel like when it comes down to Marcus's family, I don't want to talk about that. I'm not the person that should be talking about that or saying how Michael feels. I don't want to be a part of that. I feel like for me, the only person I can talk about is myself. I'm really open about how I feel and what I'm doing. But I don't have a problem telling someone a fuck to their face. I'm good for that. But I'm talking about people, I'm sensitive to how they would feel if they heard it or whatever. If they're in the same room, then we can talk about whatever. I'm not going to talk about Marcus's family.

You talk about them.

So now I'm going to be incredibly invasive, as invasive as I can possibly be, because I want to know about your potential kids. You two guys. Marcus, I saw this Instagram photo you just posted, the second slide.

A lot of.

People are talking. I'm an investigative journalist. You were palming as your dad would palma basketball. You too were palming. Lars's womb. So what was up with that?

I'm always holding her tight. And so there's nothing there. I did see some comments on IG about that. But no, if it's in the cards, it's in the cards. But right now we're just taking it day by day.

What's the last name going to be if, in fact, we get to that point? How does that work? You guys must have done the math on this.

Yeah, that's easy. It's going to be Jordan 100 %.

Jordan?

No hyphen. There's no Pippin-Jordan.

If that happens, obviously, the wedding date, she's Jordan, and then any kids would be Jordans.

My kids being Pippin also, I feel like unless I got remarried, I wouldn't change my last name. But if I do, obviously when we do get married, I'm going to change my last name.

I got to say, I am struck by the normalcy of you guys amid the abnormality of what this is on paper. To me, okay, Lars, what already are you responding to there?

I know. I get it. It's awkward. It's weird. I get it. But to us, it's not weird. It's probably weird to the world because our last names are known for basketball history.

And it's also the context of the history of duos. This is part of why this is so delicious and irresistible is that Jordan and Pippen is the most famous tandem maybe in human history. And so I imagine when it comes to the internal dynamic of your relationship, one question that I have, Charlotte hates this question. She hates that I have this question. But the question is simple in that way. Who is the Jordan and who's the Pippin of your relationship?

I'm sorry. I tried to fight it.

Go ahead, Bayer. You can.

Ask that. No, I'm like, Well, he's the Jordan and I'm the Pippin.

Exactly. It's true. I hadn't anticipated that out. It's a very easy out that you guys took, and I appreciate it.

It's touché. You guys are very good at this. I'm very impressed.

You guys don't understand. I feel like for us, we work together. We work out together. We spend so much time together that I think people don't understand that. I can finish his sentences and he can finish my sentences. Literally. I think it's just like for us, it's like an easy... What's the word?

I don't know. Just like-.

Like peanut butter and jelly. Yeah.

Another.

Famous duo.

But I think had it been where Marcus's dad or family said, Hey, never see her again, we probably would just continue being friends.

That's fascinating.

I think I would never want to be in a situation where I'm destroying someone's family or causing major turmoil. That's not my intention. Would never be my intention. So I think had it been like that, I think when people think about your dad, I'm like, if he didn't want us to be together, by the way, we wouldn't be together. We would not be together. It just wouldn't happen. I would never want to be in a situation like that.

Yeah. And my dad is a notorious trash talker.

Well, I was going to bring this up, Marcus. The most gripping episode of your podcast was, of course, the no episode, where your dad is in Paris and the paparazzi find him and he's asked the question that Lars was just alluding to, Do you approve of this? Do you approve of it? No. No, and then gets in the car.

Yeah. Well, first he laughed. And I think that's the most telling of what his mood was, is that obviously he took it in stride and he chuckled and then let out the no. And so for people that know my dad knows he likes to talk a lot of shit. And so I took it in that moment as obviously he's kidding, he's joking. Maybe he had a little bit too much to drink in terms of San Corro that night. And Lars was absolutely devastated. She was like, What is this? Because it just it painted this narrative that he obviously wasn't on board when we knew that he was. For me, I knew where he was coming from, but it took some explaining for her to understand that look, obviously she knows who he is in terms of his personality, but he never misses an opportunity to throw a jab or two. That's our relationship is like, we both like to give it to one another. And obviously, if you dish it out, you have to be able to take it. I think he was being lighthearted and joking. And he texted me right away and was like, hey, look, obviously I didn't mean that.

You're an adult. You can do as you please. I'm just here to support you. He actually even took it a step further to say, You don't even need my approval. You're a grown man. I just think it was blown out of proportion. Maybe he shouldn't have said it, but it's all good.

I just want to summarize what I've found out here today, Charlotte, with Lars and Marcus, because what I'm hearing is the story, the testimony of two friends who are living not inside of a reality television show, but inside of a romcom. It's like, what are the odds? What are the odds that these two crazy kids specifically would fall for each other against the wishes, the Romeo and Juliet wishes of the public, right?

I do think, though, that a lot of the commotion is really based in the fact that people haven't really seen our dynamic together. And it's one thing to hear it in the podcast. But I think as The Housewives of Miami starts to air, I think the more that people see us interact together, they'll know that it's genuine and authentic. I think once people read the headlines or see things in the real immediate, it's a different take.

So at the end here, guys, what do you want the Pippin Jordan dynamic that you guys are establishing to signify? We know what is signified with Scottie and Michael. What do you guys want people to think of when they think of you two?

We're on the greatness path too. Just give us greatness too. Just give us greatness.

Just another ring in the works is what I'm hearing.

Of.

Course. It's in the work.

Thank you guys so much. I do feel also it's one thing to listen to the podcast, but talking to you, they're...

I feel bad about some things I said. I'm going to say that right now. What? Well, I mean, I listened to it.

Yeah, hold on.

Now I'm uncomfortable.

At the end of our... So we taped a conversation before we talked to you guys to be like, here's what we took away from the podcast. And here, and I think it was with a very skeptical lens.

It was about incentives. It's like, look how good an idea, a business plan this would be to get... It got me hooked, right? Jordan and Pippen, the reboot?

Yeah. Pippen, yeah.

And of course, through that, I am a cynical person. And so I think we did not appreciate the degree to which you two would be so proudly boring as just a couple.

Not boring, but not trying to be messy. I was like, I wish they would have given it.

Charlotte wanted more mess.

I wanted more mess.

I just feel like people tend to judge people that are popping.

By the way, last note is that Ryan Cortez, producer behind the glass, is still a skeptic, guys. He is still shaking his head. I'm like, Cortez, you don't believe them? He's shaking his head no. What do you want to say to him at the very end here?

Follow and subscribe. Yeah, we're actually anxiety. I feel.

Like if you.

Don't know. I mean, we're not out to prove anything. If the question arises, then we'll address it. But we're out here living our lives.

You can tell me to fuck off.

It's totally fair. Yeah, you could just say that again.

So I feel like if he is in a position that's like a liar thinks everyone's lying. He would be that way. For us-.

Misery loves company, right?

For us, I feel like we're authentic, we're real, we're truthful, we're honest, we're very open. And if you can't see it, then you're blind and it's all good. We hope that you get your vision back soon.

You could say he's a coward.

I mean, he's probably a coward and a pig. I don't know what.

He is. Trash talk wise, I feel like you guys are both Jordan. Yes. Fellow podcasters. Yes. Lars Pippen and Marcus Jordan, thank you for joining Pablo Torrey, Finds Out.

Thanks for having us.

Bye, guys.

This has been Pablo Torrey, Fines Out, a Metallark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.