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Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebitard podcast.

I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that.

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys?

I've done it.

And now, here's the marching band to nowhere, Fatface and the Habitual Liar.

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David, you mentioned the uniform thing, which we already talked about last week, but I keep hearing more and more about this. I've read long form articles about it. It does seem to still be an issue that fans aren't happy with the uniforms, players aren't happy with the uniforms. And then yesterday, I saw this video on the Mariner's Twitter account of one of their players. And I'm not sure if you've seen this, but if you look at this player's pants, we have to take the lower third down And we'll play it as B-roll. But you can see through his pants, and you can see his jersey tucked into his pants. So what's going on here?

This is what they're trying to do. Tony Clarke met the media yesterday and said, We've got a uniform issue, and it's a big miss, and I'm hoping they're going to take care of it. But Rob Manfred discussed it. The players are going to be fine. It is way too big a lift to switch out uniforms. You've got your licensees involved. You have to clear the shelves because if it's not authentic, you can't charge the prices for authentic. And so therefore, it's on field authentic. And so if they change it, they have to reship everything, and the union is not going to pay for it. The league is not going to pay for it. So I just expect some players to just have to wear an extra layer of underwear. But yes, it is not ideal, but it is certainly not a major bargaining issue at all.

So the pants will be see-through this season.

So you have to really look carefully, and of course, cameras are going to be doing it. That'll drive ratings.

You do not have to look carefully in this video to see through the pants.

David, not in this.

I'm thankful for the jersey, honestly.

The video made it look... Yes, the jersey looks ridiculous. You can see how long it is, almost It looks untucked because you can see the ends of it through the pants. It really is telling you, Would you like to, just whether you want to or not, gaze at the package because- There are no players who play without underwear.

Some players just wear a jockstrap over nothing, but the majority of players wear standard issue. We give them tight boxer briefs that they wear under their jerseys, under their pants. I don't think we're in any danger of any penis capture of any of the players. Now, could there be somehow, some way, the next Fernando Seguinal that comes out? Maybe, but I just don't think that's going to happen.

What is the cup percentage in baseball?

Way smaller than I thought when I started in the game. I am blown away by the number of players who both don't wear mouthguards or cups. I didn't wear a cup. They feel like it hurts. They don't like it on the swing. They don't like it when they run. They feel they've got rubbage. A lot of rubbage. I have really tried to get players to do it, trying to explain to them that a ball on the ball is a real problem.

Is that like a spring training meeting? What's that meeting look like? The meeting where you're telling players to wear a cup. Is it a cup meeting or you tackle a lot of things in this meeting?

It's a lot of things. I go from cups to DUIs to let's play like champions to let's ignore the projections and let's try to win when no one thinks we can. So it's all mixed in one. And we give every player a cup. And what they do is they take it out of the jockstrap, and they just don't wear it. Now, catchers. There was once a catcher. Do you remember Miguel Alevo?

Of course I do. He always swung at first pitch fastballs.

So not many people remember him. He was not a cup guy. And what's funny to me is when you're catching- That's got to be mandatory. That seems like you have to be. And there was a pitcher who did wear a cup, and he was a guy named... We had him, that crazy guy, Jose Manzanillo, was a player who played for the Marlins. I can't remember what year. And he had a tick where he would hit his cup before he was able to pitch the ball. And he realized that he had to wear it because otherwise he'd be hitting directly the jewels. So he would wear a cup while pitching. Maybe that's why he was so ineffective.

All right. I've got a number of different questions right now. That crazy guy. Please put it on the poll at Lebitard Show. Does a single player in professional sports play without their underwear on? Because David has said that none of them do. Also, I will tell you that many catchers have had fractured testicles, which sounds like the worst thing possible because of what David- Isn't it ruptured? No.

You can get that, too.

I think it's different. I think it's worse. Fractured? I think it's a fractured testicle.

What's worse? Put it on the pole. It's ruptured.

Much worse.

It's a tie.

I put it on the pole at Leventhal.

I want you to school with a kid who ruptured his ball, and he had to walk around with a cane for months because he couldn't walk. It was terrible.

Oh, no. Put it on the poll at Lebitard's show. What's worse, fractured testicle or ruptured testicle? I don't think you got the player right when you mentioned Fernando Senegal. You were mentioning a player who accidentally took his pants off while on the field?

No, Seganal was a player who was famous for having the largest penis in all of baseball history.

I think that was Julio Franco.

No, that's great. Great point. Second place.

Okay, but the thing- I don't think penisize matters if the pants are see-through.

I think we're going to see ass crack a lot. I think we're going to see shirts tucked in, David. I don't think anyone was like, Oh, we might see a penis. I don't think that was the thing.

I'll take the under on one ass crack. You're not going to see it.

The under on one?

Yeah.

I'm taking the over.

On white pants, you are seeing everything.

You're just going to see on these. That's it. Standard issue. Okay. No, it's going to be crackless.

We're going to see at least one crack before spring training is even over.

Guys, please put in the lower third. Just put in Steve Lyons getting to first base and forgetting when he slid into first base that he was in a stadium full of people, and therefore he just pulled his pants down to fix them. Tony Clarke is there.

That's such an old man move. Old men love to open their belt, pull the pants down, tuck Tops of the shirt in, doesn't care who's around, pull the pants back up, redo the belt, look around. Oh, did you guys see that? What?

Papy does that a lot.

My father, one time, got so nervous during a heat game that in the living room, out of nowhere, in front of a girlfriend, he just pulled his pants down and then pulled them back up.

We've all been there. Big three era. Big three era.

We've all been there. Yes, I don't- Nobody's been there. No, I've been there. No, I don't think anybody's been there.

You just by accident, pulled your pants down, Chris?

He was just nervous and He was nervous and crazed. He was nervous and crazed.

Sometimes you got to change it up, David.

I understand that. No, I don't understand that at all. What nervous tick is pulling your pants down?

I want to point out to the audience that the video in the lower corner that is Cecil Fielder, I said that that was Tony Clark, and that could not- It's Jack Clarke. No, it's not. Is it Jack Clarke? It couldn't possibly look any less- You're selling Tony. It sure is not. It couldn't look any less like Tony Clarke. But Tony Clarke, you mentioned, has spoken to the media, and you think labor unrest is coming to Manfred's tenureship, correct?

I do. I'm going to take the over right now, and I haven't really talked about this on nothing personal yet, but if you're asking me to take an over or under on 99 days, which I believe was the amount of days of the lockout this past time. I think I'm going to take the over. There's a lot of bad stuff going on already between labor and management, and we're still years away. And all this uniform talk, it's just a bait and switch to be distracted from some of the real issues. Tony Clark spoke about deferral. You've got a block of owners who are furious with what the Dodgers did. You've got a block of owners who are furious that their local TV revenue has gone away while teams like the Dodgers and the Yankees are really becoming more secluded from a payroll standpoint. So the biggest concern you have back in 94 with the baseball strike that canceled the World Series is you had owners fighting with owners. And Bud Selig was really good about eliminating that by having favors with every owner to stop blocks. Rob Manford has been really good about that, too.

But there's a lot more new owners now. The prices of entry are a lot higher to buy teams, whether it's Bruce Sherman or whether it's David Rubenstein buying the Orioles, the numbers are bigger, so you're seeing blocks of owners, and that's always a problem for negotiation.

Give me the greatest secret you can on favors for an owner that Bud Selig would hold on to. Give me the best one that you know of where a commissioner is using as leverage power in another place.

The number one is when an owner gets approved. The number one way that leverage was used in my time was when Jim Crane had to agree to move the Astros to the American League in order to get approved as a buyer of the Astros. The ultimate leverage is when it comes to your approval to become an owner. Now, there are situations where an ownership group is chosen. So for example, when Jeffrey became the owner of the Expos, he was basically told by Bud, All right, you can take over the Expos. However, don't do anything to screw up baseball economics. And the first thing we did was give Graham Lloyd three million a year for three years and give a guy named Grady Seysmore, who's a name that some of you may know, we overpaid his slot when we drafted him with Montreal. And Bud called me and said, Get Jeffrey on the phone because that's not how you behave. You're in this game because of me. And like a parent, I brought you into this world, and I'll damn well take you out. And of course, we were scared enough that we fell into line.

That's why the payrolls were always so low because we fell into line.

Guys, I have a shameful admission. Is this a safe space? Is this a safe space? Sure. We showed the video before of that old time in When a fan mentioned a player from the '90s. I have a shameful admission. I went most of my childhood being a very big baseball fan, thinking that Cecil Fielder was a position. When I was eight, I thought it was right behind the second base, like a floating outfielder. I swear to God, this is not a lie.

This is not for comedy. Not center fielder, but right in front of him was the Cecil fielder. Go out and play Cecil.

Where was the Prince?

We got 90 seconds left, David. What do you for us in the way of a movie review?

I had 30 seconds last week. Now it's 90 seconds this week. I want to get back to Society of the Snow. I wanted to engage with you about this plane crash and what these people did when they started eating each other. Now, they waited for people to die before they ate them, but they had nothing to eat. They were in the Andes Mountains. And it's become this major center of discussion. What would you do before starving to death? And the answer is, of course, you eat and you choose the largest people first, and you start with their ass. All that's clear. What I never understood is, why don't you cook the food? They all had lighters to smoke cigarettes, light up some clothes, put the meat on part of the tail, and have a barbecue. But it looked as though from the movie that they ate it raw. Now, of course, you do what you got to do, but I worry about Salmonella and all sorts of things. But I was thinking about it, and I would absolutely eat someone before dying.

That's actually not true.

It is true.

Put it on the poll, please.

Dan, I'd start with you.

Put it on the poll, please. That lebitard show- Which cheek you're going for? When eating- Left cheek because he's a righty. When eating humans- What's your wallet side, Dan? When eating humans, do you start with the large ones and the ass? Yes.

I'm not going to be deposed.

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Dan Levatard. Aminohassen. Stugatz. Aminohassen.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugatz.

I think that as a show, we got ball-sacked again yesterday or the equivalent. I'm just using that as a tell-all verb. The Kid Rock story, evidently, was not true. Kid Rock did not You Can't Cancel America Tour that then had tour dates canceled in New York. We got got by that story. It feels like the Internet got got by that story. I just want to ask you guys, as someone who is in Miami and comes from exile living, when my parents talked about the idea that propaganda becomes news, that you cannot tell what is real and what is not real, and it is part of how it is that that you get around not giving people freedom, we're definitely headed to the place, if we're not already there, where all of us are being fooled by everything on the internet, correct? It's not just me, it's not just old people.

I feel like this one, you guys. Come on. You can't cancel a America tour. It just sounds so dumb. It sounds so dumb.

You're surprised that something would sound dumb in 2024.

There's got to be some middle ground No, this is not a shark swimming in a mall. It's close. Dude, no, no, no. It's not close to that. In a strip mall. A lot of retweets this had.

Oh, there you go.

I was told that this was from a not funny liberal website, that That is where it started. Which one? I don't know. I don't know how it is that it spread. That's the furthest I've gone on the reporting to the roots of our error.

I just want to remember for the record that Mike brought that story up. When I make a big mistake in this chair, we can remember that Mike was the one that let that one slip. He was pretty adamant about it, too.

Let's point some fingers. Did Mike come into the studio and told everyone that? So you all took his word for it.

Mike is very trustworthy. I had read the story as well. This was on a day that Tony also came after Mike by calling him a boomer because he doesn't know how to speed up YouTube.

Mike didn't know that you could watch YouTube faster. He knew what to do with a podcast. We taught Mike yesterday on air. How? You don't know? No.

How did he not know?

I don't know.

It was crazy. I accidentally speed it up all the time. Like, Oh, I didn't mean to click that.

Do you ever do that thing where you hold the button on the side and all of a sudden the video speeds up? I didn't want that.

I didn't want that.

That's how I watch every video.

I thought that was just a cocaine.

I want to ask Amina Elhassen, the cortadito. I want to ask him about this story that I'm reading right now from NBA Central. Are you sure? I don't know. Is it Central? I'm looking at Central. Yes, I'm looking closely. We have C-E-N-T-R-A-L. Got to make sure you spell it right. T-r-a-l. Okay. Yeah, I know there's a fake one out there.

Yes, it gets a lot of people.

Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Luke Longley are embarking on a no bull tour to share their perspectives on the last dance story and their experience playing for the Bulls in the '90s. This is a hat tip to Ball His Life. But the quote here, as I see Scottie Pipp and Luke Longley, and Horace Grant on stage in suits is, A lot of people want to ask us about that Bullshit documentary.

In.

No Bull Tour. Are you guys in on this? Because right now, what has been spawned by the last dance is the booing of a widow at a Bulls game. This great team can't produce anything good other than that documentary during the pandemic, because since then, all it's been is poison. It's been poison sifting through the love lives of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen's ex-wife. It's been poison with everyone being hurt by that documentary that was in that documentary. And now three bitter old Bulls are touring the country, touring the country to rip Michael Jordan.

This is all the effort It takes, ladies and gentlemen, to figure out stuff. Instead of going off of NBA, Cental or whatever.

Do I have it wrong?

You have it slightly wrong. You have it slightly wrong. The Bulls legends of Scottie Pippen, Luke Longley, Horstrand, are going to be on a tour called the No Bull Tour. They're going to be going to multiple arenas. The problem is, Dan, it's in Australia. They're not touring this country. They're touring any country.

It's Luke Longley's country, entire continent.

This is according to nbl. Com. Nbl is obviously the professional league over there. It's brought to you by Hungary Jacks, which I'm pretty sure this is copyright infringement. Hungary Jacks logo is exactly like Burger King's old logo. It just says Hungary Jack in the middle instead of Burger King. Like a bun, hungry Jack in red, another bun. That's Burger King, man. Don't worry about it. But yes, they're going on a tour of Australia. They're going to be in Melbourne, Sydney, and Tasmania. It's presented by Coca-Cola Europe Pacific Partners.

I have a question for the room, and the answer could be no, in which case, just say no. Are we ready to talk about The Last Dance being a little bit more well-received just because there was nothing else on TV than it really was as a documentary? No.

This is what I'll say, Jessica. I watched it at the time, and I knew that this was incredible. This is why it succeeded. Number one, you're right. Part of it was there was nothing on, and this is the first sports thing to come on, right? Nothing on. Well, there was-I was watching like Marble Racing. Tiger King was on. There was things on. No sports. No sports. This is the first sports thing. But number two is it barters on the most powerful narcotic there is. Nostalgia. Oh, remember when they did this? And remember when it started with LL Cool Jay on bad? Everybody Dan's age and older was, Oh, nobody can... They just started rapping along with it, right? And it automatically Caught. Yes, you did.

Your old ass fell for it. Did you? I think I liked it, but I think- Number three. The timeline throughout the entire documentary was so convoluted. And I think even as we were watching it, we were like, We know this is Michael Jordan's lens. We're seeing this through Michael Jordan's lens. We're not seeing this through, even though they're doing a Scottie Pippin episode or all these various different themes per episode.

No, the both started in 1985. We all know that, right? Or 84 or whatever. But yeah, so what they were doing was because it's supposed to be the last season, but they kept going back to the beginning of how they got here.

But then they go back and then they go back again.

Yes, they go back and forth. But the number three thing, which is the second- And then they go back to the middle, and then they go back to the back.

Go back to the future.

Then the fentanyl to the narcotic of nostalgia is Michael Jordan, right? This worship of Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan could do no wrong. Michael Jordan was always the best. Every way he did it was the best way to do it. And anyone who says otherwise was shut up loser. It's all of that coming straight into people's veins, intravenously. Then you have, okay, all of this archival footage, which is really cool, of a time when nothing was available. Now, Now we're used to seeing behind the scenes stuff all the time.

I agree the archival footage was very cool, especially the bull security guard, all of that thing.

That's my biggest takeaway.

You piece of shit, fuck you.

That meme is the biggest takeaway from that doc, though. For people listening.

Yeah, we all did the shrug.

I thought it was Michael Jordan doing that when making his six threes against Portland. Okay, bigger. Put it on the poll at Levitard show, bigger shrug.

If Michael Jordan knew that that would be the bigger shrug, he would have said, Cut that out of the documentary.

He would have It looked harder. He would have come back.

That is such a good shout by Jess. That would not have made the cut. He would have been like, Too much attention for that guy. This is my story.

They got pretty good access in terms of the interviews for the rest of everyone else who's involved. I don't think it was a great documentary. It was entertaining. It was really entertaining.

I agree, but your first part of that sentence tells me we're ready for this conversation because you just said, I don't think it was a great documentary. I think that the public at large thinks that this is the greatest documentary of all time. I think that that's just because we were really bored. There were great parts of it, but it was just like it was good.

I'll tell you why the public at large thinks that, because the public at large does not know what a good documentary is. They think anything that is just glazing for two and a half or I guess for five episodes.

This was 10 episodes.

Ten episodes, whatever it was. The glazing, that's a documentary. Just because it's real people and not actors doesn't make it a You're saying the public isn't discerning about documentaries?

Because I got in trouble at ESPN while on ESPN talking about how that was a glorified sneaker commercial, that it was Michael Jordan telling that story his way.

Dan, it wasn't a sneaker.

Sneaker commercials are well made. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, wait. Nike commercials are well made.

No, no. Dan, I'm not going to sit here unless you call it a sneaker commercial because it was a Haynes commercial and a Gatorade commercial, too. How dare you? How dare you, Dan Leventhal, just shove them aside for your sneaker fetish. Ballpark.

To be fair, to Dan's point, after the last dance, Jordan's sneaker sales went from affordable to exponentially expensive. No. You would get a pair.

It was never affordable.

It was never affordable. Guys, come on, stop that.

No, you stopped that.

You could buy a pair of shoes for 180 bucks, 200 bucks.

That's not affordable, man.

If you're in the sneaker game, that's retail price.

Dan, you're not in the sneaker game.

Come on, what are we doing here? Let's be honest. Let's be serious.

Come on, put it on a poll at Levitard Show is a $200 sneaker affordable?

In this economy, it's affordable. Trust me. In any economy, it's not affordable. Roy, you're wearing Skechers right now. We can't talk about this, please. Come on, these are Nikes, dude. I don't know what those are. Those are not Nikes, bro.

Stop shoe-shaming. Stop shoe-shaming. Yikes? He's got Air Yikes. Well, these are all baseball terms, so they might as well be Air Yikes. You're wearing baseball terms? Yeah. Don't Don't shoe-shame him.

Long story short.

Long story short, the same shoe that you could have bought for $200 in February of 2020 went up to $400, $500 in April of 2020 after last year.

I'm really happy I started this conversation.

I have a group chat where every time they try to fire up LeBron versus Jordan, I just lose my mind. I have a friend of mine, Elite, the producer, who literally just all he does is just say, So How would you compare this to LeBron and Jordan? And just walks away, watches the implosion happen.

I want to talk about LeBron James in a second because I want to get your thoughts on him saying that he has never been great at accepting praise. Calls himself the King, and has a chosen one tattoo.

I don't like attention.

But also LeBron saying he learned of that Golden State Trade at the same time that the rest of us did, that he knew nothing of it until Ramona Shelborn Lauren reported that he could have gone to the Golden State Warriors. But before we do that, let's just put up Jess's meme from the Last Dance. This only became a thing because of his hair, correct? It's nothing else other than the Security Guard's hair. It's not his cockiness, and it's not his shoulder. It's that. It's that his hair is flopping.

Teeth are great, too.

Teeth, glasses, the glasses.

It's everything. He's a legend.

It's all this. It's like a striped tie. God rest his soul, by He passed away. Rest in peace.

Wait, he passed away before he got famous?

I think it was before he got famous.

No, I'm saying I didn't know if he passed away before that.

No, no. End the segment on the downer. Good job.

I mean, all- You, him. You're the one who told us he was dead. You're the one who did that. What is the matter with you? Don Levatard.

Doc Rivers. You know what Joel is going to say? He's going to tweet what he wants to tweet. Quite frankly, I'm fine with it. If anything, I want to go to Miami, too. Is that all right? I mean, isn't supposed to be in the front office by now? Hey, I can hit the back nine right after practice.Oh.

He'd love that.Oh.

My God.Stugatz.It's a match, man. Me and Joel, let's go. I mean, Stugatz, it's a great question. It's a great question. If they win game six, that hurts my chances of coming down here and being the head coach with Joel. It's a real handsome question, Stugatz.

This is the Dan Levatard show with the Stugatz. Before we get to Love is Blind, before we get to the new college football measurement system, and before we get to the Beatles biopic that I think is out already.

Michelle Beatles has a biopic?

It is not out already. It's been announced. It's coming out in 2027.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah, this is not close.

Wake me up then. At all.

Who plays Michelle?

Okay. All right. Two years Before Rob Manfred retires, the biopic is coming up.

Can we go back to that for a second?

Michelle Beatle having a biopic? Yes.

And saying, I'm retiring in five years. I understand how these jobs work. It's not the same as our jobs. But should I just announce I'm retiring in 35 years? Just don't. I mean, come on. Incredible.

What's the cutoff? Dan Patrick is retiring in four years.

Social Security.

She's 50/50 on whether she's going to do a tour. She hasn't decided yet whether she's going to do a tour or just go out You are saying, Jessica, that it needs to be in a year or two.

If you're announcing it four or five years from now, it's not valid to you?

It's like what Samson said, because he could extend it. Something could happen before that. Five years is absurd. Again, I understand the nature of his job. It's not the same as ours.

It's just silly. Vince Carter did this thing for years. He said, The next year is my last year. Then when next year we get here, it's like, Yeah, like I said, Next year is my last year. He just kept pushing it out.

Put it on the poll, please, @Lebitard Show. Are you really retiring if you're announcing your retirement in five years at Lebitard Show? But before I get to Love is Blind, the Beatles biopic and the new college football measurement system, I mean, take aside, please, on JJ Redick. We've been waiting for your appraisal of this. Jj JJ Redick versus Austin Rivers versus Doc Rivers. Take aside.

Well, I think, first of all, you have to identify the different characters here, right? On the one hand, JJ Redick, great career, long career, played for a bunch of coaches, played for Doc. Some would I would say, some of his best years came with Doc Rivers. On the other hand, you have Austin Rivers, who played for Doc and played in his driveway as well. He worked hard. Yeah. And then the central figure here, the most polarizing figure, is Doc himself. So everyone has a bias coming into this. This is what I'm going to say. Thank you. Of guys who have played for Doc Rivers, you're welcome, it seems incredibly split between to hell with that guy and no, that guy's great. From what I gather, I've never worked with Doc Rivers. I don't know him. I've never met him. I've never said anything to him. But from what I gather, Doc is a guy that sells a bill of goods. He tells you what you want to hear in order to get you to do the thing he wants you to do. Sometimes there's a return on that. Sometimes there's not. I don't know. The frequency, all I can tell is there are a lot of guys, not just JJ Redick.

But you can support Doc Rivers in general and notice that he's not often publicly accountable on things. For sure. He makes more excuses than the average coach, and he does more in playing the media game well than the average coach because he's got a ton of media friends, has always had a ton of media friends, and has made his way up the ladder, at least in part because he's got a lot of strong, allied voices. Jj Redick is now a member of the media stronger than all those He's a media friends in voice, and he's coming after Doc Rivers in a way I've never seen publicly from a peer.

Stronger because he played for him. He's not the only one. Matt Barnes is Steven Jackson. Not totally enamored with him either. There's a lot of guys, guys with names, right? Because they played for him. They have a credibility that all the other media people don't. But the old joke is, me and Zack Harvard do this joke all the time. It's whenever we hear people laughing at a joke that's not funny, we call it a Doc Rivers press conference because the media likes Doc so much that when Doc says something mildly, a music, everyone laughs, right? And the joke I do is when someone asks a question and said, Doc Rivers will answer, Oh, what a smart question that was. What an incredibly good-looking question that was, right? He always throws in a little bit of like, Yo, you know what you're talking about, because that makes them feel good. And so when they write about him, they write about him in positive terms. This is what I'm going to say about Doc. He's a great coach. Make no mistake. Has he had missteps and downfalls and things not to be-Colapses in the play-off? Absolutely. But he's not a bad coach.

Hold on a second. Redik isn't saying he's a bad coach. He's saying he's not publicly accountable. Players don't like this. I mean, players don't like that they have to be accountable, no excuses, no excuses. And the guy leading the environment is somebody who's making public excuses, going around at the All-Star Game saying, Why are you guys doing this to Andy? Why are you guys doing this to Adrian? Adrian, Griffin, why is it that you're putting me in this position before the All-Star game.

Here's the flip side of that. So JJ says this because JJ is a guy that's like, I don't know about this guy. Because he's probably felt the burn, gotten burnt. On the other end of the legend, let's not talk about Austin Rivers. Austin is going to stick up for his dad.

I don't know, though. Their relationship is complicated.

It's complicated, but it's not complicated to the point where he's going to say, To hell with my dad. He's not going to outwardly, overtly go against his father. A better comp would be Kendrick Perkins, who Kendrick Perkins jumped in the mentions under JJ.

But he won a championship with Doc.

It's not just that. See, it's not just that.

But Paul pierce will be on with us tomorrow, and he'll probably defend Doc, too.

He will. Those are his guys. But I'm going to say this about Kendrick Perkins in particular. Kendrick Perkins is a guy who came in this league. He was straight from high school, and it was like, Is this guy a good pick or not? We're not sure. Doc said, I'm going to make this dude one of the best defensive centers in the league. And he told him, You're one of the best defensive centers in the league, and you're going to start. And the year they lost, remember that Doc was beating the drum. If Kendrick Perkins was healthy, we would never lost. He's basically given Perk all the confidence and success, not just the championship, but to move on and go to Oklahoma City and other places and feel like, No, I am truly great at what I do. I don't know if that happens if Perk doesn't play for Doc Rivers.

For Perk, absolutely, he's going to be like, What are you talking about? You're not really taking a side. You're taking everybody's side. Well, you know.

No, but we need your help so we can pick a side because I don't know who's side. They both made compelling arguments to me. I guess I lean JJ.

I'm leaning Austin.

Leaning JJ.

Netbo babies. Stand up for other Netbo babies.

I don't know if there's a side. I think this is all It's all of it is tied into some very strong personal feelings. Like you said, Paul is going to come here, and Paul is probably going to stick up for him. But I would say, ask Matt.

The criticism is fair. It's a fair criticism to level at Doc Rivers. The way that JJ Redick is getting attacked is interesting with attacks on what his career was from Patrick Beverly, what his career was from Austin Rivers. But the criticism itself, you can like Doc Rivers and say this is fair criticism because it is fair. Everybody would say that about Doc. He's not great at accountability when it comes to giving good press conference.

You're telling me that there's some nuance here because I don't like that at all in my sports debate.

Am I wrong, Amine?

I love the idea of Dan saying, Pick aside. Also, why it can't be fair.

Am I wrong? Am I wrong in what I'm saying that the criticism itself is fair? They're not addressing the criticism. They're addressing the critic.

Yes, of course, because everything is partisan. It's either your pro-Doc or anti-Doc. Anti-dock. This is an anti-dock statement, and I'm pro-dock. I cannot abide by it. Rather than attack what the anti-dock criticism is, I'm going to say, Oh, yeah? What did you ever do before you got here? He gave you more money than anyone would have ever given you.

Everyone's anti-dock these days, Dan. Times have changed. Finally.

The place that we are in is basically, do you like the person or not? And then let's form the argument around that. I'm good with that. It's not, let's have the disagreement or the argument the criticism. It's like, do we like you? Do we not like you? And we'll take your side. But I'm trying to address the criticism. For someone who works in the accountability business, Doc Rivers is worse at accountability. Not he gets fired, the accountability is forced on him. He's worse at holding up his hand and saying, My fault, my bad, I'm responsible for this.

Worst than Phil Jackson?

Phil Jackson doesn't have the resume of failure.

I'm not talking I'm not- Well, but no, but it matters.

No, no, no.

But when Phil failed, did Phil say, It's my fault? Or did Phil blame everything else, including the way basketball is being played?

I understand why you come by that opinion, and that is an astute basketball opinion that basketball people have noticed. But Phil Jackson forever will be known as a winner, even with what happened at the end with the Knicks. Doc Rivers is viewed by people like you in the basketball industry who know as a very good coach who fails in enormous moments and is known by a lot of his players as someone who will not raise his hand, but will also say it's not Blake's fault, will also defend his players vigorously. What I see happening now in the defense of Doc is a bunch of guys who enjoyed playing for him, publicly supporting Doc because he's a coach who they feel that they like and that worked well for them. It doesn't make JJ Reddick's criticism invalid.

I guess when you say he's the guy that's taking accountability the least out of any coach, I'm I don't know, man. We just went through a whole George Karl thing this week. It doesn't sound like he takes a lot of accountability. A lot of coaches, surprise, surprise, don't take accountability. Did you guys already talk about Rick Patino? Did it sound like he took accountability there? Did Deion Sanders sound like he took accountability when Colorado season went the way he did? This is a thing that coaches do. While it may not be an unfair criticism of Doc, I don't think it's isolated. I think this is something that coaches do. Very rarely do they say, My bad.

I've heard it more about Doc from players and people in basketball than I have from others. It's how I arrive at the appraisal. I'm not arriving at it on my own. I'm not arriving at it because I remember. I'm sure Doc Rivers, I'm sure someone can play a press conference for me where they lose a 3-1 lead, one of many of them. And he says, All burdened on me. I should have coached harder. The way that coaches always say that.

I should have done more. I should have more film, less golf. I don't know. I don't know. Or maybe more golf. Maybe I didn't golf enough.

You are delicate with Doc.

I'm delicate because I understand that everyone chiming in on this topic are people who played for him. When it comes to coaching, it's always funny to me when someone says, So and so is going to be a good coach. And I always say, how do you know? Well, because all these other guys said, so you don't know. Have you ever seen him coach? No. All right. Have you ever been to practice and watched him coach in practice? No. So you're just going It was a hearsay.

Okay. Hearsay, except what JJ Redik was reacting to was an interview game at the All-Star game when he's three and six that was filled with excuses. That's what the reaction was to.

Three and seven, that's a fine.

But correct or incorrect, being interviewed and just giving all the reasons that it's not your fault.

Doc had an insane All-Star weekend in terms of interviews. He told Rachel Nichols that there were not one, but two other teams to try to get him out before the Bucks. He told SiriusXM, he told Frank Isola that, Oh, I told Bucks ownership, Why are you firing Adrian? How could you do that? And then he says the thing about, Oh, it's hard and it's midseason and all that stuff. He's having the best All-Star ever.