Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show.

I was wondering how I could help my current wife deal with her anger towards my ex.

How about you and I just go to the bar and just not talk about this? This is going to sound crazy, but anger is a good thing. It points you to the way things should be, and they are not. Yo, yo, yo. What's up? This is John with Dr. John Deloney's show, talking about your mental and emotional health and your relationships and just trying to do life in a world gone mad. I'm so glad that you're with us. We're here to walk alongside you and help you figure out what's the next right move. And so many of us find ourselves with nobody to call and nobody to sit down and be honest with us, who's also got some expertise, also got a lot of experience sitting with people, and isn't just going to give you something dumb, stupid, TikTok-y answer, but it's going to sit with you and say, Hey, let's figure this thing out. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to JohnDaloney. Com/askask. Let's roll it to Seattle, Washington, and not listen to Allison James, but talk to Scott. Hey, Scott, what's up, man?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you today?

I'm good, brother. What's What's up?

I have a question for you. I'm wondering how I could help my current wife deal with her anger towards my ex.

I don't know, man. How about you and I just go to the bar and just not talk about this? Okay, what happened? Tell me about it. Yes.

Well, in my mind, the anger is It's completely justified.

What happened?

Back when we were dating, we've been married for a year and a half now. Back when we were dating, I've been dating for, I think, officially dating for a couple of months. We'd known each other for about three or four months at this point. I have four children. My older two are out of the home, my younger two are still in the home. We went to pick them up for an activity that we were going to do with them. This is the first real one-on-one activity that my sons had had with my then-girlfriend at the time. We go to pick them up, and when we do that, my ex comes out and we're sitting there waiting. We call Kate, and we're sitting there waiting. My son, we're sitting there waiting for them to come out. My ex comes out and asks my girlfriend at the time to roll her window down. Then she begins to just rant and tell her how horrible of a person I am and how she should avoid me and all these things. She's being kind and just listening for a bit and just nodding. And after a while, she's like, Well, we got to go.

We got to go. We're the one to go up, and I call my son and say, You guys need to get out here. We're going right now. And they come out and get in the car, and we head out, and we go to where we're going to go. And we're doing a little walk up to the mountains. And we go to the activity, we come back, and later that night, we're at my house, and my sons have a Halloween party planned on some of their friends. So So where I lived, the bottom level was a garage, and the door and the second level was the living area, and the top level was the bedrooms. We were upstairs watching a movie, and the kids were in the second level having their Halloween with their friends. And then my ex starts sending me all these text and threatening text and everything. I just, I ignore them. I don't even pay attention to them. She's calling me. I don't, I don't just answer the phone, whatever. Then all of a sudden, she starts to, I'm going to come over there. At this point, I'm like, maybe you should go to my girlfriend.

Hold on, hold on. This was six months ago, a year ago?

No, this is This is in 2021.

This is back- Bro, why are you still hanging on to this? What has happened recently?

Well, I'm just putting the base. Okay.

Yeah, she did some dumb things. She saw the fact that you were moving on, her kids were going to be around a different woman, and she lost it. So fast forward three years to now.

So three years to now. So between now and then, we've had protection orders filed against her, her and I. And then- She's still trying to threaten you and get off in your business and everything? Not as much, no. She's backed off. But ever since we got the protection orders, that quieted down some. We actually renewed. We had another incident about a year and a half later that made me renew the order. Then this year, the order lapsed. They're a year order. In February, the order lapsed. I didn't tell my wife. I just let it go because we hadn't had any issues for quite a while. Then we go to file our taxes. If you come to find out that my ex claimed we had an agreement that she took the younger son, I took the older son on our taxes. We took the agreement. We had the agreement, and then she filed- Was it a legal agreement or was it a handshake? It was more of a handshake. I thought it was on the decree, but it wasn't. It was more of a just an agreement between us. We've been doing this ever since divorce happened.

She took my younger son, and that just threw her off because all through the last... We've been married for a year and a half now, and through that whole time, she's been trying to take me to court, trying to get more money out of me. It's just been just one battle after another with her, and then that was the straw. Now my daughter, who I have my two other daughters, my second daughter is getting married this year. She has a relationship still with her mom. That's hindering the relationship of my ex with my daughter now. We're having to plan for this wedding. Here's the thing, dude.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let me interrupt you.

Okay.

You all just keep a seat for this woman at your kitchen table and you let her live there. You expect every interaction, everything that comes up, you expect, Oh, this is going to be the time that she acts like an adult, that she acts like a stable, rational, sturdy adult. There's been no evidence throughout your marriage to her, throughout your post-marriage to her, throughout your new marriage to somebody else, that that's the case. You keep putting your hand back in the bag and you get bit, and then you're stunned that you get bit. This is going to sound crazy, but anger is a good thing. It points you to the way things should be and they are not. Right?

Yeah.

But now you know how things are. Getting angry at this point is a choice. Maybe the actual anger itself is not a choice, but putting yourself in these positions over and over and expecting something different is a choice. I would just tell both of you, Stop. You all knew that when your daughter got married, it was going to be a mess. So expecting anything else is choosing misery. There's people who go clean up after high school prom parties. I'll never forget leaving one of those and We didn't do a good job of keeping things clean. There was a couple of people walking in that were so agaced because we were knuckleheaded 18-year-olds. I'll never forget two older women, probably in their 70s. They were laughing and they said, Every once in a while, you just got to cut loose, don't you? That's how they walked in to clean up. Everybody had the same job to do. One person chose a group of people chose misery. We're going to be pissed off this whole time. I can't believe he's stupid. And the others were laughing. Those 18-year-olds must have had a good time. I remember when I used to have a good time.

I tell you that to tell you, you knew this was going to be chaotic.

You know that.

Minimize chaos, minimize the interaction, never let things lapse. If you don't have a legal thing, expect the unethical, unhinged, unkind person to be unhinged and unethical and unkind. Just be mad at yourself that you forgot to... Or that you let it lapse, and you learned your lesson, and then we're going to move on. I'm just not giving her to seat at my table anymore. And your new wife, and I say this with all due respect, but this happens all the time, she chose to to carry somebody with an ex-wife, and that comes with stuff. Even in the best of situations, I've seen some extraordinary ex-wives and new wives get along because it's for these kids, and we're adults. Good grief. For adults. I've seen it, and it's still a bit awkward because you had a honeymoon with my husband, too. That's always going to be weird. It just is. That's what she chose. If she chooses his misery, then that's something you all two have to deal with. Now, she probably didn't choose to be married to somebody who's going to lie and cheat and steal and... I mean, cheat on taxes and violate handshake agreement.

No, she probably didn't sign them for that, but that's what she's got. I hope I'm not making it sound too simple, but at the end of the day, you can put on your calendar. High school graduation, it's going to suck. I wish it didn't, but it's going to because she's going to be there. Wedding, going to be the worst, but she's going to be there. It just is. It's going to be the worst. We're going to plan it, we're going to get through it, and then we're going to go on their lives. I'm just not giving her a seat at my table.

For me, I've learned to let it go, and it doesn't really bother me as much anymore.

I don't believe that because when you were retelling that story, I could hear it on you, man. Why'd you all get divorced?

Well, she was unfaithful, and I wanted to work through it still. The pasture was greener, and so she wanted to try something different.

Okay, so she broke your heart, and she blew up your picture of what your life was going to look like, and she blew up your kids' lives. Now, five years later, she still blames you for it, right?

She does, yes. Yes.

I'd be upset, too. Also, you've started a new family with a new wife, right?

I have.

Any ounce of energy you spend thinking about the old life is an ounce of energy you're stealing from your current new life. I just wouldn't give it to it.

Yeah, you're right.

I think you're still carrying that betrayal around.

Maybe not. I guess, yeah. It's not easier. For me, it wasn't easy to let go. And still, I don't think you really ever can fully... It's hard to really let go what could have been, right?

Yeah, but you gave up the right to wallow in that when you looked at another woman and you said, I do.

Yeah, I agree.

She has to be the priority now, not what could have been.

Because what could have been is over. I tried to make that. I tried to go that route. I know. It's hard to... I mean, like with the kids, sometimes she looks at the kids and she sees some things that they say things to her, and she just says she's really careful about saying things to them about… We both are. We have to try to keep our distance and our boundaries. That's the hard part for me is that She looks at, especially my daughter who's getting married, and she sees a lot of my ex-wife in that situation because she's close to her mom still.

Well, and she should see a lot of her mom because she's half of that other woman.

Yeah.

Dude, that's what your wife signed up for.

Yeah.

That's not fair to put on your kid. It's not fair to put on your ex-wife, of course. That's her mom. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter how unstable she was and how she blew up the family. Your daughter knows half of me is her. If she's evil, half of me is evil, too. Kids can't go there. If they do, there's a lot of dire consequences as they try to duct tape over that hole, right? I'm asking everybody to be mature here, but your new wife can ask things like, What does your mom think about that? Is your mom excited? Because here's what we don't want to do with these kids. We don't want them to feel like they have to pick aside or every time they're kind to somebody, that they're betraying the other person.

Yeah, I try not to do that at all. I try not to involve them at all in anything that my wife and I and my ex-wife are going through. I try not to put that on them at all. That's awesome. There's a lot of things they don't even know about.

Of course. It will come out one day. If you and your new eye focus on peace and on steady, that will resonate in your kid's nervous system. Yeah. Whenever we go to dad's house, we just all exhale. When we go to mom's house, it's a tense place. I always tell parents, when you all get a divorce, you've gone from a year-by-year game to a 15-year game. Now, your goal is, I want 25-year-olds that look back and see how much they were loved through a bunch of chaos because a 14-year-old can't feel that. They just know their world exploded. I would recommend this. Sit down with your new wife and say the words, I am tired of my ex-wife having a seat at our kitchen table. She's out of this house forever. There's a reality to this. There will be a few more weddings. There will be some graduations. There will be the random letter from a lawyer and ask your new wife, How much of this do you want to participate in going forward? Because I want my whole life to be about you, and I don't want you to have to deal with this.

She might say, I want to know about everything, every letter, every whatever. Then you get to say, I need you to stop choosing rage, and I'm willing to shoulder my past so that we can all move forward. If you get a letter, just send it to your lawyer. Don't lose a second of sleep over it because rattlesnakes bite. If you're holding a sack with a rattlesnake in it and it starts rattling, don't put your hand in there. If you get a letter that says you're being sued for increased child support, okay, and call your lawyer and send it to them. That's going to be an annoying $2,500 check or $5,000 check, a beat-down check. But that's the world you're in right now. Yeah, that's- You see what I'm saying? I'll do that. I just heard you exhale. Just, that's what I'm looking for, man.

Yeah.

But there's got to be something about... Here's a conversation I would love for you to have with your new wife as well. My guess is you all have been married a year and a half. Is that right? Yep. And your divorce was final how many months ago? How many years ago?

It was about two years when we got married, so about three and a half years ago. Okay.

I think your new wife is doing everything she can to plug in with you, and she still knows that part of you is still plugged into that old mess. She's going to get madder and madder because she's grasping it as a ghost. I I think there's something to be said for, Honey, I've been trying to be in both worlds. I've been trying to fix what happened and deal with the mess of the past and be all with you. I'm sorry, and I'm going all in on you, but that means we got to get her out of this house. She doesn't get a vote anymore. If she wants to blow up my daughter's wedding, then maybe we don't to the wedding, but I'm not going to do that to my daughter. Or if she's so immature, she's going to blow up X, Y, and Z, we'll do a small family gathering here, or we'll sit down with daughter and say, Hey, daughter, you know this is going to come. How would you like us? How can we best love you through this? But we're just going to stop fighting reality. I would recommend you write a letter that God help you don't ever send it, but it's not an anger letter.

It's a letter of grief, a letter of, Hey, X, I'm setting you down. I'm not carrying you anymore. I don't know what I did. I don't know why. You know what happened and all those dynamics, and you can be pretty explicit about it. But I want you to get that story out of your body so you can move on with your life because you haven't. You haven't grieved for that yet. You've just been pissed off. Only then can you fully, fully be vulnerable with your new wife. And by the way, that means she could hurt you, too. You all can be running and gunning, and seven years from now, she could take off. That's the risk we all take when we choose to love. But until you're ready to be that vulnerable, your wife's going to always be trying to plug into an outlet that's got one of those little child protective covers over it, and she's never going to be able to fully plug in. The idea of getting hurt again is probably more than your body can handle right now. And yet that's what we signed up for when we got remarried. I'm proud of you.

At the end of the day, I'm going to choose. She didn't get a seat at my table anymore. I'm going to do whatever I can to make that reality. I'm going to let my new wife speak into what that looks like. I'm not just going to cut her out. But also we are going to choose not to have rage in the house because it doesn't solve anything. It doesn't solve anything. We're going to solve for peace. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you, Own your past, change your future, and Building a non-anxious life, both of my number one best selling books. I want you and your new wife to read them together. It's going to be my gift to you all. Read them together. It's going to give you a roadmap out of this mess. Thanks for your call, brother. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. How are we almost halfway done with the year already? 2024 is flying by. So let me ask you something, what's something you're really proud of so far this year? What's something you're still wishing you could change direction on? Is there something that's haunting you, not including the upcoming presidential election, that you are realizing you need help in overcoming?

As we get older, life picks up steam and it moves so fast. Everything moves so fast. It's important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, and it's also important to make adjustments for the rest of the year. Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months, the next nine months, and beyond. Therapy is a safe, effective place to get things off your chest and learn how to say scary and hard things out loud, and then figure out how to work through whatever has been weighing you down. Personally, I have been blessed to have a great therapist who I can talk to and helps me work through the next three months, six months, 10 years of my life. You can have that, too. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online. It's convenient, flexible, and suited to fit your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire, you get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra money. If you're ready to take a moment and be super intentional for the rest of 2024, call Betterhelp.

Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie today to get 10% off your first month. That's help, h-e-l-p. Com/delonie. All right, let's go out to Boston and go to a Harvard bar and talk to Meg. Hey, Meg, what's up?

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call, Dr.

John. Of course. Thanks for calling. How can I help?

My question for you is, how do I move forward from the effects that being a juror had on me?

Oh, man. What case did you sit in on?

A murder trial.

Yikes. Tell me about it.

Yeah. A few months ago, I was a juror for a murder trial, and it's just been staying with me more than I thought it would. A little bit of background about me. I'm also, up until a year ago, I was an ICU nurse. I've been around a lot of deaths, a lot of trauma. But being a juror was still more difficult than I thought it would be.

Was it a kid?

Yeah.

Did you have to look at all the pictures?

Yes, we had to look at all the pictures.

You had to read all the text messages and all the notes and emails and stuff?

Yeah, all of that. We had to see pictures of inside the houses and where they found the body, all of it.

Hey, Meg, nobody's supposed to see that. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

You got to glimpse in the depths of hell, and people aren't supposed to see that.

Yeah, I was not expecting that to be as much as it was.

If you were an ICU nurse, you've been in capacity for a long time, right?

I think that I did pretty good, but it's a lot of trauma. You see death in your everybody's worst day of their life.

What's the name of Bester Van der Kolk's book? What's the name of it?

Is that the Trauma Stewardship?

No, that's a phenomenal, phenomenal read. I forgot her name off top of my head. That's a phenomenal read, but no. The name of Van der Kolk's book is The Body Keeps That's the score. What made you a great ICU nurse is you could navigate even when your body was falling apart underneath you. Now that you've stopped, it still registers, man.

Yeah, that sounds exactly right. Yeah.

There's a price to still be paid. That's what I'm telling you. I hate to tell you that, but you know that. Yikes, man. All right, so tell me how this is affecting you. Are you seeing her everywhere?

Well, part of that is that they never found the body, so there's still missing person posters all over the city. So whenever I drive past that, it just hits me.

So was somebody convicted even without a body?

Yeah. There was still a lot of forensic evidence.

Okay. The defendant would never tell where the body actually was?

No.

I remember when I testified in a trial where somebody got a significant sentence, and I remembered, actually was a part of the sentencing hearing. The next day, the judge actually used some of my words in the sentencing. The trial as a part of was so gross, and I was so upset by it. It was nothing like what you saw, but it was upsetting. I remember when it came out and the conviction was... I mean, the conviction already happened, but the sentence was significant. It was very severe. I remember I was so sick. I was caught off guard because I thought I would feel good that justice was served. I called my friend, Dr. Beth Robinson, and she works in kid cases. I actually asked her that same thing, and she goes, Oh, John, nobody wins. Even when justice is served, the way the TV show set it up is everybody cheers, and it's like, No, that little girl is still gone. There's just a whole other family system. It's ruined now, too.

Yeah, so that was part of it. She's haunted. I I did go to the sentence thing because I thought that that would help.

No, it makes it worse.

To put the end cap on it, and it didn't. It just didn't feel any different.

I'm going to tell you the only... I'll tell you, there's no research literature that I know of on this particular thing. I'm sure it exists. I haven't looked at it. I'm going to tell you a practice that I use personally, okay?

Okay.

I would write that little girl a letter and tell her that you're I'm so sorry because what you have tried to do to solve this issue is talk about the forensics, and you've tried to talk about the posters, and you've tried to talk about the trial, and you've tried to talk about the killer. This whole thing is about that little girl.

Yeah.

That's what haunt your body. So calling or writing a letter to her by name and letting her know that you got to see just a glimpse into what she had to deal with in her last minute. And then here's the important thing. Most of the time when we lose somebody or we're around something like this that is that traumatic, our bodies get stuck in this moment that they're still in pain. I need you to hear me say that that little girl is no longer hurting. She's free.

Yeah, that is the only comfort that we could take. That's right.

There's no comfort in this. There's not. It's just acknowledging a little girl who senselessly, needlessly went through absolute, halacious hell before she died for no reason, right?

Right. Yeah.

But you hear me say this a lot on the show, but you got to let that little girl go have peace. Okay. If you have people that you remember, those of us who work in... I wasn't an ICU nurse, of course, but there's just a few particular people that haunt me still for my days working crisis stuff. It's important to let them go. Sitting down and writing that letter, there's a couple I need to do that to myself. You've reminded me, so I appreciate that. But that I still hang on to. They still show up in dreams. They still show up when I'm mowing the yard, and I need to let them go.

Yeah, I still have a couple of those people, too. That's right.

Do you remember their names?

Of course. Yeah.

I think it's a worthy practice. As you begin to let them go, others will show up wanting to be set free Me, too. For those of you listening, if you've never worked in trauma, if you've never been a nurse or a police officer or an attorney or sat on a jury like this, you think we're talking about woo-woo. But, Meg, you know exactly what I'm talking about, don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. Yeah.

I hate that you had to see that, and I hate that happening, that little girl.

Me too. Yeah.

But if it's for whatever it's worth, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not broken.

Thank you.

Your body just has been through a lot. And by the way, Meg, where did you get this heart for service? You dedicated your life to helping people.

I have always found nursing interesting, and then I found ICU nursing, and it's the best combination of helping people and science and just being able to be there for people.

Thank you for making that a big part of your life. I've seen some of the most hollow, ghostly faces in ICU units while people are looking at loved ones or sitting with loved ones. It's those amazing nurses like you that show up and give... Doctors are running and running and running specialists are in and out, but it's those nurses that keep everything, everybody's souls, bonded together during those times of chaos. So thank you for that.

Thank you.

You have, my friend, some letters to write. Thanks for showing up. Everybody, listen, if you got somebody in your life that you've seen, that you struggled with, a loved one, a car wreck that you drove up on any of those things, consider sitting down and writing a letter. There are several people that I need to do that with, like I mentioned, and I don't remember their names. I don't remember exactly what they look like. A couple of them, I even remember what they were wearing. I'm going to I'm going to admit to that. It's time for me to let them go. I've been holding on to them in this pseudo way to keep me safe, and it's time for me to let them go. Thanks for the call, Meg. You're an absolute hero. Grateful for you. We'll be right back. It is one of my most sincere honors to be partnering with an amazing supplement company. I'm talking about Thorn. Thorn is a world-class, personalized and science-back supplement and health testing company used by elite athletes, thinkers, doers, and world changers all over the globe. I've been taking Thorn for years, long before I was a YouTuber and a podcaster.

It's where I get my creatine, my Super EPA Omega Fish Oil, and more. My kids take it, my wife takes it. Thorne is a staple in the Deloney household. Thorne is pure third-party tested, and they are redefining what it means to live longer and healthier. For Deloney show listeners, Thorne is providing 25% off everything in their entire lineup. Go to thorn. Com/deleteru/deloney to open up your digital dispensary, and the discount will be taken at checkout. That's thorn, T-H-O-R-N-E. Com. Coleslaw. Com/theletteru/delonie. All right, let's go out to Saint Paul, Minnesota. I talked to Cole. Hey, Cole, what's up, brother?

Hey, John, how are you doing?

Partying, dude. Rocking on to the break of dawn. What are you doing?

I am sitting in my car right now. I'm just talking to you.

Not doing that. Very cool. So what's up?

So I guess my question is, how do I reconnect or reconcile my relationship with my father that I haven't really spoken to in over a year? And we had a on and off again relationship throughout my childhood. Now that I'm a father, I guess I'm looking for whether he should be a part of my life and my child's life and how to go about that.

Why did you quit talking to each other a year ago?

Honestly, the thing that made me just stop responding was he had sent me a text that just said hello to the son that never text his father, never talks to his father. That was after a long period of trying to connect with him after I moved out of state, try to go on vacations with him or see him when I came back into town. It was just never convenient, never the right time, just never happened. I felt like he wasn't really interested in a relationship. Then phone communication cut down, and eventually, he sent me that text, and I just stopped talking to him, but I've been feeling guilty about it.

Has he been guilt-tripping you your whole life?

Not really a guilt trip. He just would disappear for a month at a time and then reappear. Where'd he go? Well, so him and my mom split up when I was about five or six, and He lived close by. He lived like 10 or 15 minutes away. And he had full visitation through the divorce and everything. But I think he just had a problem with alcohol and depression. My mom would tell me when I was a teenager, he would go around the dark side of the moon.

Yeah, I don't buy that. He made a choice to not get well. Because I have too many friends and family that have been to hell and back because they're not going to miss their kid's life. Right?

Yeah. I know he always tried to be... I think my problem with him was he never really tried to be parent. Once they split up, he would try to be the cool friend with a car and money. So a lot of the memories I have with him from a child are actually good memories. It would be we'd go to a baseball game or we'd go fish in or we'd go see a movie or something. But it was always after that, it's like, Okay, we're going to send you back home and go back to your real life. I'll see you in another week or two to something fun together.

So fast forward to now, why are you feeling guilty?

I guess I'm feeling guilty because he's getting older. He was 50 when I was born, and I just turned 30, so he's going to be 81 this year, and he's not in the greatest health. And my stepmother has been reaching out to me over Facebook and asking me why I don't talk to him anymore and what happened, and they just don't understand. I guess. I don't know. I don't want to get a call in the middle of the night that says he's passed, and Kind of miss my opportunity to reconnect with him.

I guess I'm torn, man, because that goes both ways. I'm not 80, and my son's not 30. I can't speak for your dad, but I know this. My son took a math final this morning, and he's really been struggling, and he hit a home run. He did great. Every bit of me wants to get in my car and drive over to the school and just hug him because I'm so proud of him. The fact that your dad has never gotten in his car, he just sends these Hilmery passive-aggressive middle school romance text to you, blaming you for everything. He hadn't got in his car and knocked on your door and said, I miss my son, which is his job as dad. It's not the kid's job to heal these relationships. It's the parents' job. I hate that for you. I'm torn because I can't put myself in his psychology. Now, my son, over a period of 20 years, said, I don't want you around in my life. I don't like you. I don't want you to be there. And again, if you sat down with him, he might tell you, I I knew life was hell.

I knew I was struggling with alcohol and depression, and so I wanted to see you smile. I took you to games, and I took you to this. I'd be willing to bet that would be his side of the story. And now that you're 30, you're saying, I just wanted my dad. He's going to say, I just wanted to see my son smile because I broke his heart. I get everybody's everything. There's all different 360 degrees to this thing.

Yeah. I think a lot of it's come up, too, that my daughter is five now. Sorry. No, you're all right.

What do you hope to accomplish? If you hope to accomplish just If you're feeling guilty, don't do this. If there's a chance that you can make peace with your old man and bring peace to your future great grandkids because you put a stop to this behavior in a family system, and There's going to be some... I drove a long, long way to get a four-generation picture before my granddad passed away with my dad and my son and me and my granddad, and it was worth it. Sure. I'll have a photo for the rest of my life. My granddad was an unfathomably good man, right? I needed that photo. So if that's what you need, cool. If you want your daughter to know her grandad, and he's going to write her letters and whatever, cool. If he can do that. But if you feel like you need to do this just in case you're going to get a phone call in the middle of the night, then you're going to be chasing ghosts. He's going to sniff that out 100 miles away.

Yeah, I think maybe the biggest thing is I wish that I would have had more guidance from him on how to be a father. And you didn't.

He can't be that for you. You can grieve that and have your heart broken by that. He can't be that for you. And that doesn't lessen your responsibility to go find men who are 5, 10, 15, and 20 years ahead of you to seek their guidance and wisdom because you need that. None of us can be good dads by ourselves. We need older, wiser men in our lives.

Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing I feel like I'm missing at this point is all my friends. I'm the first one of my friends to be raising kids. And I feel like everybody that I'm friends with is mostly around my same age. There's a lack of that older male.

Do you have a couple of buddies that their dads are pretty awesome?

I have one, yeah.

I think it'd be pretty awesome if you called his dad up and said, Hey, my dad left when I was a kid, and I'm finding myself over my head. Can I call you every once in a while? That might be one of the most honorable phone calls I think another man could get.

You think that would feel a burden to him because he already has three or four kids.

It would be the greatest gift you could give him. If you called me and told me, well, here's just the honest to God truth. I talk about all the time, I take my kid to breakfast every Tuesday. We went this morning. It's Tuesday as I'm recording this show. We went this morning, got up early, I skipped my workout. We went. I'm catching a plane to go to Connecticut tonight. We got this breakfast in. I got that from Dave, my boss. You know why? Because I like... His son is amazing. He's a funny guy, and he's just a hilarious guy to be around, and he's a great leader, and he's a person of integrity, and he's married well, and his kids are... I thought, I want my son to grow up like that. If this is what we need to do, this is what we need to... I'm taking these from everybody. I tell you what, when I looked at Dave and said, Here's the fruit. I'm going to start copying some things you did. Yeah, that's one of the greatest honors another man can receive. You call that guy and say, Hey, you raised an amazing son, and I need some help.

Can I call you every once in a while for some guidance? Dude, what a gift. What an amazing gift.

Yeah, I think you're right. He's a guy that we go hunting with every year. He's the pack leader for our little hunting party. We have a little bit of a rapport already. I think that might be a move.

I think that would be awesome. Ask him, will you mind checking in on me every month just to see how I'm doing? I want you to see where I'm headed with this. Because we're going to separate these things. I'm going to say this with all due respect and just get right down to the brass tax. Is that cool?

Yeah.

Your dad cashed out his fatherly wisdom, his fatherly relationship with you. He cashed it out. He was sick, he was struggling. He chose not to take some different tracks, whatever. He cashed that out. You have to go get that. I wish you didn't, but you do. You already have another man down the road from you that you have a picture of that would be a guy I could call, which is amazing. That will free you to go have a relationship, a different relationship with your dad in his last few years of life. Do you see how it will release the pressure on that?

Yeah, that would be a huge relief, actually. I feel the pressure like I need to get some lost time or wisdom from him There's not a secret.

He's going to be like, All right, now that you're back, here you go. Right? Yeah. He didn't have that. But he could be a great guy who loves you, who did the best he could with the tools he had in the toolkit. In retrospect, was it Was it good? No, it was a mess. But I think in our culture, we do one of two things with our parents. We either hold them to retrospective standards We create these mega boundaries, and we cut people out of our lives. We don't just honor them for who they are. Sometimes that means we have to grieve certain things, and we don't go do the necessary work we got to do. That doesn't mean you can parent by yourself just because your dad cashed out. I mean, you got to go find somebody. It's both and. But I think, man, you make that call and get that settled up with that other guy, that's awesome. That is awesome. My dad was an amazing detective and police officer, SWAT guy. Then he became a really extraordinary minister, and now he's a professor. He has never been a YouTuber. He's never had to do media calls.

He's never had to hop on a plane and fly to Connecticut for 12 hours and fly home. He's never done that. I have to have other people in my life to get that wisdom from. My dad never packed up and moved across the country. When I did that with my young kids, I had to call some other men in my life that I trust to get that wisdom. How do I do this? How do I do this the right way? I don't ask things of my dad that's unfair for me to ask of him or that he can't provide. I'm I'm going to make peace with that. Will you make that call to that other father this week? Yeah, definitely. I think that'll give you a lot of peace, man.

Do you think it's worth, as far as my own dad, just me being the one that initiates like, Hey, I'm going to come into town. If you're around, I'd love to see you.

Talk about what happened. I think you go one step further. I think you let your stepmom know, I'm not doing an electronic communication anymore. I'm coming to You call your dad and say, Dad, I'm going to be at such and such restaurant at noon on this day. I'd like to buy you lunch. I have some things I want to say. I think when you sit down, I think you can look him in the eye and say, Dad, I've got no interest in rehashing what happened, what's in the past, what's in any of that stuff. You're my dad. I love you. I want you to know your grandkids. I'm doing the best I can to raise them well and to be a person of honor by our last name. I want you in their life. I don't want you in my life. You know what I'm saying? Here's the deal, Cole. He may say no. He may cash out again.

No, it sucks.

It would. But you will sleep at night knowing, I did everything with honor and integrity, and I was respectful to my old man. He might break down in tears at that table and say, I've been waiting for this my whole life. I'm sorry. If he starts to bring up, Well, you didn't... I'm like, Dad, I'm 30. I'm a new dad. I'm trying to figure this out on the run. I'm sorry. I'm interested in moving forward. You can just cut the conversation off and tell him, If you're not interested in moving forward, then that's fine. But I'm not interested in having an old conversation. He might just... You might ask him, Can I give you a hug? When's the last time you hug your dad?

Been three or four years, maybe.

Maybe start there. Dad, can we get weird for a minute? Can I just give my dad a hug? What? What? What? What? What? Yeah, I just want to give my dad a hug because you got somebody walking alongside you now. It can't be him. It's not going to be him. That's okay. We're going to grieve it. I think you've been grieving it for 30 years. Now, I'm just going to be respectful and honorable. By the way, for people listening, if there's abuse involved, if there's physical abuse, sexual abuse, this doesn't apply. This is a different track. This is a dad that struggled with addiction, who left, who tried, who sounds like he was just doing his best, and he just best wasn't good. Now, he's old and is alone, and misses his son and knows there's grandkids and doesn't have the tools to reach back across the aisle, yet he's withering away because he can't reach across the aisle. If I'm not using another person for oxygen, if I've got other people that I can rely on, man, I'm going to reach back across and say, Hey, man. We only got a few years left.

I'd love to spend them getting to know each other moving forward. Is that the way it was drawn up? No, that's the way it's going to be. I'm going to choose reality, I'm going to go from there and make the best of that situation. I'm grateful for you, brother Cole. Thanks for thinking that through with me and letting me think out loud a little bit. Here's what's important. You're a good man, you're a good dad, and you're a great son. You're all those things. And you, my brother, get to choose what happens next. We'll be right back. What up? What up? You have heard me talk about my favorite event in the world, Money and Marriage Getaway with me and Rachel Cruz. Here in Nashville, we love it, you love it, and I've got some news. This fall's event just sold out. The one we do every year in October is gone. But I've got you. Rachel's got you. We've got you. We've decided to add another money in marriage getaway. This time, Valentine's 2025. Same incredible location here in Nashville, same real honest teaching, and of course, tons of live Q&A sessions with me and Rachel Cruz and other special guests.

You do not want to miss this chance to get away with your spouse, strengthen your communication, talk about the things you need to talk about, and build a plan for an all-new marriage together. Get your tickets now while early bird prices are happening and save up to $350. And go ahead and knock out Valentine's Day gifts 2025 right now. If you want a platinum ticket, this is not a sales pitch. This is me just loving you. You got to hurry. Last year, platinum sold out in under an hour. Get your tickets at ramsey solutions. Com/getaway. Come to Nashville, hang out with me and Rachel Cruz. Maybe our spouses show up and more and more fun. That's ramsey solutions. Com/getaway. All right, we're back. Kelly had something cool happen. What is it?

All right, so this is from Moriah in Winnipeg.

Hold on real quick. Did you ever get your hair permed back in the day?

No, it came that way.

You never...

Why would I get a perm? I don't know. I don't know how that works.

Did you used to get super perms back in the day with aquanet bang?

No. Have you seen how curly this is? I don't need a perm. What would it do?

That's just the way the L-O-R-D just rocked it out? Yeah. Did you have the bang? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty awesome. Yeah.

Oh, I mean, come on, an '80s, '90s girl in Texas. Yeah.

This got big. Yeah.

But no perm. God gave me one early on. That's where we are.

Cool, dude. All right.

That was random, by the way.

I was listening to Cindarella on the way to the office today. Which I totally approve of. I was, All things change. I was singing real loud. For some reason, when I just looked up, just now, I just thought, I wonder if you used to just type her in that sucker.

No, but it was just because it's so big, there's so many pearls, it got really big.

And it taxes it. It took a life of its own, huh? Yes, it did.

Yeah, it's pretty spectacular.

I wonder if your oncologist was like, Um...

We have the reason. We found the reason you have breast cancer.

Is there any chance you just snorted. Aquanet.

Aquanet, yeah.

Well, actually, I did, sir. Yeah. Actually, I did. All right, go for it.

Anyway, just writing to express my gratitude for John and the team for this I've been listening since the beginning, and I've been on a journey toward my best self over the past five years. I'm currently 37 weeks pregnant with our third child. As I was swimming this morning, it occurred to me that there has been a huge shift in my attitude toward myself. I am loving myself where I am and giving myself grace. It's okay not to accomplish X, Y, Z or anything while exercising in this season of my life where I just need to move my body. Anyway, I attribute a lot of this new approach and attitude to loving myself, to John talking about shifting how we speak about ourselves. I am a person who is worthy being taken care of. I eat well, I exercise, and I prioritize sleep because I am worthy of my best self so I can be the best mom and wife that I can be. Thank you. Ps, I really wish more people, women in particular, were taught these principles from a young age.

Who go you? That's awesome. Look at you. That is not going to sit well with the perpetuation of misogyny from the previous Is that this show or the previous show?

Well, no, we got it for a show that we recorded a couple of weeks ago. But it's good to balance between perpetuating misogyny and...

And honoring teaching women.

Honoring women. Yeah, it's good to be balanced.

It's just a potato-potato. Oh, that's awesome. Well, hey, for everybody listening, thank you for taking little bits of these shows and deciding, I'm going to put that into practice. What was her name, Kelly?

Mariah from Winnipeg.

Good job, Mariah from Winnipeg. It's amazing. I hope your birth goes well, and I hope you have a beautiful little baby here any day now. Love you guys. Bye.