Coming up on the doctor John Deloney show.

The therapist just told me I need to file for divorce and get out of there. I was able to get my husband to go to couples therapy. When we hit the last visit, she told him we need to think about the divorce option.

There are two different licensed professional therapists that have looked you in the eye and said, you need to divorce this man. What up, what up, what up, what up? This is John with the doctor John Deloney show. We talk to real people, going through real stuff, talking about their relationships, their emotional health, their anger, their rage, their frustration, their sadness, their grief, trying to figure out what's the next right thing to do with my husband, with my wife, with my boss, with my kids, with my kids teacher, whatever you got going on in your world, mental health, emotional, all of it. That's what we talk about on this show. And it's not me talking at you. It's me sitting with you trying to figure out what's the next right move. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1844-6933-2918-4469-3329-1 please, please, please, just stop for, for 5 seconds. Just stop for 5 seconds and hit the subscribe button or the thumbs up button or the like button or whatever. If you have 10 seconds and you can go, leave a five star review. It makes such a huge difference. We had yet another event this weekend here in Nashville.

1000 plus people were here and listening to the number of people who are impacted by the show just so humbling. And it only happens because you guys keep sharing the episodes that are important to you guys keep subscribing to it and it kicks it up in people's algorithms. It just makes such a big difference. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And on behalf of your neighbors, thank you. It's awesome. All right, let's roll out to Seattle, Washington, where the spin doctors call home. Yeah, it's one of Kelly's favorites. Favorites.

I did not expect that to come out of your mouth at all.

I would not have little miss can't be wrong.

Oh, I love this. I mean, yeah, two princes.

Great. Love that.

Love the songs. I just did not expect you to come out with that. I expected a grunge band or, I.

Have to tell you, I don't know where that came from.

They just pulled that some file way back there.

I don't even know if they're from Seattle. If you'll google that, that would be helpful. I'll do that. We'll clarify that. All right. Let's go out to the home of the spin doctors and Allison chains in Soundgarden. Doctor Casey. What's up, Casey?

Hi, doctor John.

How are you?

I'm good, thank you.

Awesome. Well, what's up?

I just wanted to know, what can I do to get my husband to think of me as a wife and not as a roommate?

Oh, man, that's such a heavy question, huh?

Yes, it is.

Tell me about that.

Well, we've been having issues probably the last couple years. We've had some really big changes in our life. My dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and then my husband started a friendship with a co worker, and I started to feel insecure and got depressed. And over the last year, there's been no intimacy. And my husband's not a very affectionate person. So once that intimacy stopped, the insecurities got worse, and I went to see a therapist, and I did that for about six months. And after six months, the therapist just told me, I need to file for divorce and get out of there. Then I was able to get my husband to go to couples therapy because I don't want a divorce. We attended about five sessions together, and I did several solo sessions with her. And when we hit the last visit, she told him that we need to think about the divorce option, that things are not where they need to be. But he says he loves me and he doesn't want a divorce. But he says he has no connection with me to be intimate. And at this stage, we are a roommate that share a bed.

There's nothing other than him saying, I love you periodically to make me feel like I'm a wife.

Hmm. There's a ton here, right?

Yes.

I find it. There has to be something else going on because there are two different licensed professional therapists that have looked you in the eye and said, you need to divorce this man. And for a therapist to say that out loud, they know that with divorce comes a cascade of terrible stuff. Terrible things, right? Splitting finances, finding new homes. If you've got kids, I mean, the whole thing becomes a mess. And so for somebody to pull that trigger, two different licensed people either, and I'm saying this with all due respect, okay? So I'm just throwing this stuff out there. Either you are somebody that is so unwilling to change or do anything differently, that they're saying you, just for your own sanity, you need to cut ties here, or there's something unsafe about him.

I don't think that it's unsafe. There's never been anything like that. We're not a couple fights. We've always gotten along, never had any major issues. We just celebrated. Well, if you could say celebrated. We didn't really acknowledge it. Our 18th wedding anniversary this last week. But I do know he's very hard headed and doesn't do change.

He doesn't do change, but in your discussion, he's not here. So I'd be having a totally different conversation if he was on the phone. But he's not. What you told me is in three, I think, different situations. You outsource your feelings, your self worth. You outsource how you feel on other people and you expect him to carry that for you. And that makes him a parent, not a lover. He started a friendship. You got insecure and be, and the way you phrased it is because he did this. Then you ultimately got depressed. You had another situation that he did. Well, now I feel like this. Your dad got sick then. Now I feel like, see, and again, you should be sad if your dad gets sick. Of course you should. And if your husband has starts developing a friendship, he starts developing a connection with, I'm assuming it's another romantic interest with a woman or something like that.

It is a woman. And it got to the point where my husband generally doesn't say good morning to me. He'll tell me goodbye when he leaves for work. And he doesn't usually say goodnight. He's just like, I'm going to bed. Okay. It got to where at one point she was starting to text, or he was texting her back at like four or 05:00 in the morning, good morning to her every day. He was telling her good night every night before he went to bed. At one point, I saw a message that says he cherished her, which he doesn't say to me, but he tells me there's nothing more than a friendship. But I, the same woman, he tried to get me to be friends with her and I chose not to be. She kept telling me I needed to get a divorce. And I was like, no, you're getting up in my head. I don't want that. Just stay out of my business. And he goes to her with our business. He sees her every day. And then at one point, she had a Christmas party. My husband said he didn't want to go. And her friends were texting them, saying, well, she's going to be heartbroken that you're not going to be there.

You're her person and she's married. And when I tried to talk to him about the feelings of the insecurity from that relationship and how I felt that it could end up leading to something more. He told me that I was stupid. He would never do anything like that, and it was just a friendship, that there was nothing there.

And you know that's not true.

Yes. That's the hard part, that he won't be honest with me.

Okay. But you're not being honest with him. Right.

Right.

So the same thing you're frustrated with him about. Here's the deal. You have no life in your marriage right now. And so somebody at work made him laugh, made him feel alive again. And maybe it was that he didn't have to carry all of the emotional weight. He didn't have to carry all of the whatever. I don't, I don't know what's going on for 20 years in your marriage, but when you're, what you're telling me about him, and again, if he was on the phone, I would tell him, don't ever talk to this woman again. Okay. He's not on the phone. What I'm hearing is a guy that's just exhausted, he's tired, whatever. He quit. Right. And so I'll ask you, have you quit?

No.

So when you sit down and say, I need you to say hello in the Mor, in the morning, my wife and I had that very conversation. She is a very quiet person. Takes her a long time to wake up. I open my eyes and I'm like, whoa, let's go. Right. And I said, I need you to say good morning. But she did that as a, as a gift to me. And now it's a, one of my most precious times. So have you sat down and said, I need these things from you?

I have.

And what has he said? I need these things from you, or has he said, I just don't care?

When I went before we started the couples counseling, every week, I would sit down with them and say, okay, this is what I'm working on this week. This is where I'm feeling. This is how I am perceiving this. What can I do for you? What can I do that you need me to change? And his answers, and this is one of the issues that we had in therapy, is I don't know. And he just will. He tells me he's not a deep thinker, and he's like, I don't know what I need from you. I don't know what I want from you. I don't know where you need to change. And that's been frustrating. And during couples therapy, one of the first weeks she gave us was just for him to greet me every day when he comes home from work. Because he'll come home and I work from home. He would use to come into the office, say, hey, how was your day? I'm home. I'll see you when you're off. Then it got to where he didn't even come into the office. He wouldn't greet me when I came out to the living room, when I got off work.

And now he doesn't even talk to me. Or he comes home an hour or two later after work.

And Casey, you know what this means. Why won't you live in that reality?

I think I have too much hope.

I know, but that hope. You don't have hope. You've got your wishing. I mean, listen to the things that you're saying. He used to come say hello to me, and now he's 2 hours late. And now he's got these other people that he. This other person he's connected with and other like, you know.

I do.

You do? And it sounds like he quit for any number of reasons. And he has everything he needs. He's got a warm bed, he's got somebody making sure that the dinner's made and the trash is taken out, because you work from home, so you get to do everything, and then he gets to have his excitement and the person who makes him feel alive somewhere else.

True.

He has no reason to alter and change things. He's already left you. He has unplugged and left you. He's just staying in the same bed. Right? Tell me I'm wrong.

No, you're correct.

He left you a year ago.

It's hard.

Oh, God. I know. Hold on. Just sit in this for a second. You're not crazy. You've known this for a year. You're not crazy. Has any of these therapists you've seen call just put this on the table?

No, not per se. The last one of the therapy sessions, my husband walked out on why? And she asked how we had done the previous week, which was the week of him coming into the office and greeting me. And she asked how that week. What? And I said, well, I think it went well. However, I said it wasn't a daily thing. It was. He did it two out of five days. And he got upset and told me that I was putting him down and making it look like he didn't have an effort. And even the therapist is like, no, this is her perception. This is her saying, yes, you've made an effort. But did you do it daily? No. And he got upset because essentially she called him out that he wasn't putting in the work, and that was.

Hold on.

Consensus.

I want to stop for a second because there's. It's one of those things where it's so clear, but you're so in the weeds. Okay. You ever been out to the beach before? Have you been to the beach before?

I have.

You know, you're playing out in the water, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. And I'm getting. You're getting. You're way over your head. And also, you stand up, and it's like, up to your knees. Right. Let's do that for a second. The work that you're asking him to do is to say hello. That's all you need to know. With all due respect, that's not work. That's human decency. That is human 101. And you're not even saying first thing in the morning. Because I give people grace on that. It's hard to wake up sometimes shaking the cobwebs loose or whatever, but walking in the door after work and saying hello to the person you've been married to for 18 years is not work. See what I'm saying?

I do.

If he had a rage problem, an anger problem, an anxiety problem, a depression problem, if he was slowly entering into trying to curb some OCD tendencies, what if he had a lot of shame? That's work. Hello is not work. That's a guy who has left his wife. And it absolutely breaks my heart on two fronts. One, that another therapist didn't say that out loud. And you've been drowning for a year. It's cruel. You've been sitting there spinning out for a year, wondering what the call. You called me. What do I have to do to get my husband to love me again? It's cruel. And I'm sorry that my colleagues did that to you. And you've known this for a year, right?

Yes.

So what do you do now?

So hard?

I know. I know. Everything's like. There's a period at the end of the sentence, and now there's that. What are you gonna do now?

I think the writing's on the table. I'm gonna have to make the changes and do the paperwork and get the ball rolling.

Here's the conversation I had in my house. And I'll just give you the. Like, the words I used and the words my wife used. Okay. We had a final conversation, and it went like this, the marriage as we've known it is over. No drama. No getting up and walking away from the table. No screaming and yelling. No. No overly dramatic wailing. Right. And she was mostly. That was me talking to myself. Right. That's. I'm dramatic. Two adults. Are we gonna stay married? And if we are, everything has to be different. And if we're not, we're going to be adults, and we're going to figure out our next steps. And my wife said, I'm all in. And I said, I'm all in. And then we started from there.

Okay?

And so before you go file paperwork and all that, I think you tell your husband we need to have a hard conversation and sit down at a table and say that I'm going to ask you to be an adult. Don't get up, don't walk away. No yelling, no screaming. This is the conversation to have. I can't be married to somebody who does not want to be married to me back, who won't love me, who's already left me.

We did have that conversation, and to an extent, and I say that because when I brought it up, he told me, he goes, we agreed that we would never divorce when we got married. And I said, but the times are different. Things have changed. And he flat out told me that if I walk out the door, he won't fight for me and that if I want a divorce, he does love me, but if I want to leave, just leave.

Gosh, what a coward. Dude, that's a straight up coward. Your husband's a coward. And I would tell him that to his face because he's putting the whole thing on you. He's left you. You've heard me say this a million times. Behavior is a language. He has moved out on you. He just staying in that bed, and he's going to ride his high horse about, nope, no divorce. No divorce. He's seeing somebody else. He has feelings for somebody else. He won't even say hello to his wife. And when a professional that he's paying asks him about it, he walks out because he's a baby, and he's going to blame you. And he'll be able to sleep at night saying, my wife just left me. She divorced me. It's cowardice. It's cowardice. And maybe he's not having sex with this person, but she is propping him up emotionally, psychologically, relationally, spiritually. It's the person he wakes up for. It's the person he goes to sleep for. It's the person he works next to shoulder to shoulder, right?

Yes.

He doesn't have the courage to leave you, and I'm so sorry. Not that he's not leaving you, but that he's dangling you over the edge, and he's going to blame you for dropping the rope, like, letting go of the rope. But the question, I mean, the question remains the same. Like, well, I mean, he's already told you. You already had the conversation. He said, yeah, you can leave. I'm never going to fight for you. I'm just going to let you go, but I'm going to blame you for the rest of time for leaving me. And I hate this for you. I hate it. I'm an old school sucker, dude. So I always believe in one more conversation and then one more conversation after that. So maybe it's fair to sit there with papers and say, I'm asking you if you'll love me, and here's what that looks like. And if not, I'm gonna ask you to sign these papers. And hopefully those papers sitting on the table will. His eyes will get wide and realize this is real. And he'll say, my God, will you forgive me? Let's figure this out. That's my hope. That's my hope.

But he's seeing somebody else. He's left you. He doesn't honor you. He doesn't care about you. He won't even say hi. That's infidelity at 15 different levels. And I'm just sorry for you. And I hate to be the one to have to say, hey, this thing's over. But here we are. What you had is over. The only option you have left is, can we build something new? You can't build it by yourself. Call anytime. Call anytime. If he wants to call, I'd love to talk to him, too. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. All right, here we are. We're almost halfway done with the year. Can you believe that 2024 is flying by? So let me ask you something. What's something you're really proud of so far this year? What's something you're still hoping you can change direction on? And is there something that's haunting you, not including the presidential election that's coming up, but something that's just hanging on that you need help in overcoming? As we get older, life picks up steam and it moves so, so fast. And it's so important to take a moment to celebrate your wins.

And it's also important to stop midstream and make adjustments for the rest of the year. Therapy can be a place where you can take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months and beyond. Therapy is a safe, effective place to get things off your chest, to learn how to say scary things out loud, and to figure out how to work through whatever's been weighing you down, especially the first part of this year. I have been personally blessed to have a great therapist who I can talk to and who helps me work through things, analyze what's going on in the past, and create a plan for how to get better in the future. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. It's totally online, it's totally convenient, and it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire. You get matched with a licensed therapist. You can switch therapists at any time. It doesn't cost you any money. If you're ready to take a moment and be super intentional for the rest of 2024, call Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp help.com deloney. All right, let's roll it to Connecticut and talk to David. Hey, David. What's up, dude?

I'm good. How are you?

All right, brother. Things going okay?

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking my call.

You got it. What's up?

So I've been struggling with something for a little bit. I'm trying to figure it out, and I've just been thinking about it a lot. And I was, like, asking myself, I was like, well, what would doctor John say? And I was like, that's a scary place.

I like it. All right.

So I was like, how would he approach the situation? So I figured I would just call on and see if you'd be able to help me. I'm sure you would.

I love it. Let's do it.

All right. So I've been trying to. I've been struggling a little bit with trying to figure out how to put aside my negative experiences and feelings towards religion and try to figure out how to navigate my own beliefs and what I believe to be true and how to, like, implement that into my life while trying to put aside all these negative, like, experiences that I've had that kind of, you know, block out the being able to figure out what I really want for myself.

What's your. What's your faith tradition?

I'm jewish.

Okay. And what are these negative experiences that you want to disconnect from, you want to cut off from.

So, I mean, there's a. I mean, there's a lot of, like, you know, small things I could, you know, figure out. But, like, I feel like the main thing for me, it's like I grew up in a very religious household and.

You know, practicing jewish family.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. And, you know, my parents are great and everything, but I went to a lot of, you know, ever since I was a kid, went to a lot of very religious schools. And high schools were really intense, you know? And I'm sure you've. There are all different religions that have these kind of schools, but just for me specifically, they're really strict and really intense and just. And I don't think it was any, like, single, like, little thing that really bothered me, but I've had just a lot of, like, you know, when. When trying to figure yourself out and, like, trying to, like, what do I believe is true? Just kind of getting shut down over and over and over and, like, you know, you can't. Meaning you can't really feel those kind of ways. And, you know, and so I'm not. So observe it anymore. But, like, you know, and I would like, for the longest time, I was just like, you know, I just kind of want to be done with this when I can and, like, not have to deal with it. But at the same time, like, figuring out what's really true and what I really believe is important is important.

Well, if you come from a strong, practicing family, some of these choices you make are going to cost you things, right?

Um, yeah, to an extent, yeah.

All right, so I'll say this, and then I've got an idea, if you're cool with it. Number one, you're 18, right? Is that right? You're 18?

Yeah.

Okay. You are right to question everything. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's good. And anybody that tells an 18 year old not to question things and to shut their mouth and sit down and just digest whatever I'm giving you, you should be wary of that person, because I'm a person of faith. I'm a person of practicing faith. But if I believe what I believe is true, then it's anchored into reality. That means you can question anything. You can run up against it. And if what I believe is true, it should hold. Right? So I shouldn't be scared of anything anybody asks. And at 18, I never want you to lose sight that the people around you who are older than you, who are doing things, and it doesn't always make sense. That doesn't mean that you've somehow figured out a glitch in the matrix and they're suddenly stupid. Right.

Right.

So it's like, how do I ask these hard questions? And how do I balance wisdom and respect and knowing I don't know everything that's going on here. You get that tension. That's tough for an 18 year old, right?

Yeah.

If you would be cool that I have a great friend. His name is Jordan Syed. And do you know who that is?

I don't.

Okay. He's a super. He's one of the most amazing health and fitness and nutrition voices on the planet. He makes me die laughing. And he's also really thoughtful. He's a jewish man, and he's really thoughtful on navigating both sides of this conversation. Would you be cool if I brought him on and let him join us, like, in this conversation?

Yeah, sure.

I think he would be a wise. He's fun, irreverent. But he also is very, very wise. Very smart. Is that cool?

Sure.

All right.

Hang on for a second. I'm going to bring him on.

Okay.

Jordan, you there?

I'm here. I'm here. Thanks for having me.

You got it, man. All right. David, are you there?

Yes.

All right. David, meet Jordan. Jordan, meet David.

David, it's very nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you.

Just for the record, David, if there was a fistfight, you would definitely defeat Jordan.

Okay.

Jordan is not very tough or strong. He has a great dad, though. He's a great dad.

It's accurate.

Just kidding. He's, like, one of the strongest guys who's ever lived. All right, Jordan. Yeah. I'm assuming you have. No. I was going to be smart alec, but we're short on time. Like, tell me if this rings true to you being 18 and being raised in this tradition, and then going, I don't know what I believe. I don't know how, like, talk to what you just heard with David. Yeah.

I mean, 100%, it rings true. The first thing that I want to say is, I mean, for anybody, never mind age, but especially to be 18 and being like, hey, here's what I'm thinking. Here's what I'm feeling. I want to separate my emotions from my beliefs. And to articulate what you just articulated so well is something that I'm 33, so I'm still very young. But there are. These are things that thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, 70 year olds struggle to do. So for you to be having this conversation and seeking out help is just absolutely wonderful. And I want you to recognize that because a lot of people attribute wisdom to age, which obviously age can with years that can come. But your mindset towards wanting to learn and find the truth is very unique and special, and I want to appreciate that within you. So that's number one.

Thank you.

Number two is regardless, no matter where we are in the world, in terms of whether it's religion, Judaism, Christianity, whatever, whether it's lawyers, doctors, personal trainers, there are people in every industry, in every realm of life that are good at what they do and are not good at what they do. There are people who are very dogmatic and people who are very open minded. And it sounds like you've been surrounded by or you've seen, in many instances, people in Judaism who have been very dogmatic, and it sounds like they've been saying, this is what you believe, and this is it, and that's it. Now, I'm sure you know, and any jewish person will know that you put, the old joke is you put three jewish people in a room, you're going to have four different opinions.

Right.

And even part of Judaism is, is debate.

Right?

We talk about on Passover how you stay up all night and you debate. You debate the Torah, you debate the Bible. It's the whole concept that there's only one right way about it is that's inherently flawed and goes against everything about Judaism. And so for you to be questioning it is the most jewish thing you could do.

Yeah. And, I mean, I had, like, a kind of second part to the question because that's, that's kind of something that I've, like, talked to my dad about. He's super awesome, super smart, and he's, you know, that's, that's kind of, like, where it all, like, comes from is like, you know, if everybody that I knew was just crazy and, like, you know, everybody, like, I would be like, well, what is like, that doesn't make any sense. I don't want to be part of it. But there are so many people that I know, my dad being one of them, so many people that, like, they're super smart, super thought out. Like, you know, it can't be that everyone's crazy. And I know a lot of people that aren't. So the second part of my kind of question was, you know, I, like, when I was younger, it was kind of hard to separate. Like, you know, just figure out what's going on because I just couldn't tell. And there were so many people saying different things, but now that I'm older, I'm kind of, like, realizing, like, yeah, like, what you just said is, like, there are so many people that are just, like, you know, they're misrepresenting what is really true.

And, like, I'm now realizing that. But the second part of my question was kind of, like, you know, as you kind of figure out what you believe to be true. And, like, let's say, you know, I'm like, you know, this is what I believe. This is true. Another part of the equation for me is, like, but still, like, I like, I don't think it's healthy for me because I've tried and, like to ignore those experiences and feelings that I don't know if you'd call trauma, but, like, that's the only word that I could think of that would kind of make sense in this context. It's like, all those experiences and emotions, just, like, even if I believe it to be true, how could I, like, possibly, like, be a part of that community and those people that made me feel that way? Because, you know, at the same time is like, you know, I believe that that is how that religion is true. Like, to practice it and teach it to my kids and send my kids to these schools and, like, you know, be a part of that community. Like, I don't know if I would ever be able to do that even if I believed in what they were saying.

And I think I think John will be able to give you probably even better insight than I will. But what I'll say is you don't have to be a part of that part of the community, and you should never feel like you're required to. There are many other areas of the community. I guarantee you there are other areas of the jewish community, if you would like to be a part of it, that would completely disagree with what you've been through, and they would be horrified, I'm sure, the things that you've, you've been put through. And so I don't want you to feel like that your experience thus far is the only experience, and it's definitely not the experience that you are required to continue with, nor that your God willing future children are required to deal with at all. And there's no reason at all for you to feel like you must stay in there, especially if you've gone through trauma at all.

And, David, here's maybe a sideways analogy that works for me. I've struggled with body dysmorphia stuff issues my whole life, and I have gotten so much garbage and trash advice. Cascading is wisdom. Cascading is insider info when it comes to exercise and health and nutrition and just what a normal body is supposed to look like. And so I walked away from all of it. The problem is, I still have to deal with, there's truth. Right? I still have to deal with. I've got to take care of myself. I just didn't know how to do it. And so the mission for me, I think. I think you hear the term deconstructing all the time. I think asking questions is always so good, but I also want to hold. It's much easier just to burn a building down than to walk down the stairs and walk out and go find another place to walk into. Right. That's a much harder thing to do. And so what I had to do was seek out a few people that I trust. Jordan is one of those guys. Um, Adam and Justin and, um, Sal at mind pump are one of those guys.

Lane Norton's one of those guys. I trust them. And here's the deal. I can't cash out on this stuff. I, like you, have some, some experiences from our religious background that made me walk away from the whole thing just as a functioning atheist for a while. So sick of the whole stupid thing. And over time, in my world, the truth didn't add up. So I had to go find people that I trusted. But as Jordan said, no, do not, I'll tell you, don't subject your kids to an abusive situation, period. I don't care what kind of dressing they wrap it up in, whether it's nutrition, whether it's physical abuse, whether it's religious intolerance, don't wrap yourself up in that. And if you also know people around you to be very wise and to be right, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Right.

But it's okay to take a breath and to step back from it for a bit.

Okay.

Does that, does that ring true?

Yeah, that sounds, that sounds like a good idea.

Jordan, do you have any tangible things as you've. I mean, as you've navigated this your whole life? You spent time in Israel, you've spent time here. Um, do you have some tangible things for an 18 year old kid who's just like, all right, I I'm. I don't want to be a part of the day to day nonsense that I had to deal with. At the same time, there's gotta be some wisdom threaded through there.

Yeah. So, I mean, one thing, a practice that has worked very well for me and this is not just with Judaism, but with anything, is whenever I've been wrapped up in an extreme end of something, oftentimes in the extreme end, they'll tell you not to do certain things or even not to associate with other people. And I know that in extreme ends of Judaism, for example, and other religions as well, but especially in, like, extreme ends, like, you don't, don't talk to reform like they're not really even jewish, or don't talk to conservatives. They're not really even jewish. Or don't go to Hillel. You should only go to Chabad, whatever it is. Like, I would encourage you to go to, go to these other places, like, go to Hillel, go to a conservative synagogue, go to interact with people who maybe have not been, are not in the most extreme end of it, and start asking questions, start communicating with them, go to a shabbat dinner with them. I have a very strong feeling that you'll start to connect with them on a very deep level, and you'll feel very seen and very heard and start to open up your mind to a community that you didn't even know existed within your community.

Is that worth, is that something to explore, David? Would you be willing to have the courage to do that? You're a courageous 18 year old already.

Yeah. I mean, so, like, last part of the question is, like, that, that actually, that sounds, like, awesome. And that's one of those things that just, like, that. I've, I know people personally that have done that, and I know it's worked for them. I know people that hasn't worked for, and I think it's definitely a good path. But my last part of my question is that a lot of the, I think something that kind of turned me off early on and something that's always been a lot, a little bit of, like, question for me. And I know that, like, it seems like a silly kind of thing to say, but to me, you know, if I'm told, like, you know, you can't do this or you can't do that, meaning, let's say the example is you can't go, you can't not be religious. You know, you have to be religious. And if you're not, then you're not as good as us or whatever it is. To me, it's like, well, why not? Like, why can't I? And the fact that it's always like, you can't do that. Or you, like, if you do that, like, I have a, a family member, a relative that ended up marrying somebody that was not a jewish woman.

And he basically got excommunicated. Like, nobody talked to him for, like, ten years. And to me, it's like, that's extreme. And, like, whatever the reason may be, and whether it's important to you or not is, like, it's one of those things. Like, when it feels like you have no choice, that's when I want to know, why do I have no choice?

And that's. So here's. I'll tell you. As a 18 year old, that's hard, because there are things that we tell 17 year olds, you just can't buy lottery tickets, dude. You can't. Because if you won $25 million, the statistics say you're going to end up in a dumpster. And at 17, you're like, that's so stupid. Let me buy a lot. They're right there. Oh. Like tomorrow when I turn 18, suddenly I can handle it. I get there's some arbitrary to it, right? Or when you're 14, you're like, I want to see that movie. And the psychologists of the world had said, hey, if that's in your head at 14, the chant. It's not. I get how frustrating and arbitrary, and.

I feel like that's a logical. I feel like that's a logical. Like, I have a reason why you shouldn't do that. But when it's like, I know what you need better than you.

Right?

Like that. That's the. That's the worst.

Well, and you're 18 in the whole world's opening up for you now. And so your parents job is to do the best they can to protect the one, the most precious thing in their world, and that's your soul and your mind. And most parents either go too far in either direction, they don't protect it enough, or they way over protect it. It's a hard balance. I'm a dad. It's hard.

Right?

Okay.

And here's what I'm training my 14 year old to do. I never, ever, ever get mad at my kids for asking why or saying, I don't think that's a wise move. Dad, can you explain?

No, my. My parents are pretty good about that.

That's awesome. And you also, at 18, know, hey, that just sounds like bigotry, right? You can already see. Yeah. And so that means you, a. This is going to sound counterintuitive. That means you were raised right. That means your mom and dad had some real strong boundaries, and they taught you to ask hard questions and to see things. And two, now you're getting into 18, you're getting into adult world where you have to make decisions and there's going to be consequences on either side of these or 360 degrees around these decisions that you make. Right? And you're starting at 18 to feel the weight of that squat rack, squat bar. Like, oh, I'm an adult. This is heavy.

Yeah.

And you realize, oh, my dad was carrying a lot around. That's maybe why he was so grumpy on Sundays. He was carrying the whole house all those years. Right. And so it's. It's a pressure that you feel, but, yeah, if you see injustice and already conceded at 18, good on you, man. Good on you. And I think, Jordan, you can back me up here, but your job will be, if you see something like that, you see a family member who marries somebody, and there's a group of your family that says, well, they didn't follow this thing to the letter, they're out. That you can then say, hey, you're always welcome in my home. You're always welcome at my table. Right. And that's how, that's how change happens in these circles. Jordan, any final words?

I think that you just said it best. I completely agree. And, David, I think you're doing the right thing asking questions. Don't ever feel like you can't ask questions. I think you're doing amazing. And I know I'm proud of you, and I know Jon is, too, so you're doing fantastic.

And David, I'm going to give you Jordan's personal cell number, his home address, and I'm just kidding. I won't do that. But David, Jordan is pretty amazing. You connect with him on Instagram if you ever have additional questions. And, brother, never hesitate to reach out anybody. And this is specific to jewish faith, but anybody asking questions, ask questions, it's okay. And if you are somebody that is terrified by the thought of asking questions, that is where you need to do your work. And it's okay to question everything and be really slow to throw out the baby with the bath water. Be really slow because things can look shiny and flashy and modern and hip and cool. And the analogy I always like to use is we've just started knocking down grandma's old house because it was old and we put two tall and skinnies in the lot. And come to find out, grandma's house was built 80 years ago with old wood, lumber. And yes, it probably needed new plumbing and it needed a new roof, but that house was going to stay there for another 400 years. We just knocked it down for two paper homes build with crappy, cheap pine trees, right?

I mean, don't just burn something to the ground because it, it questioned. It made you question things when you were younger. And there's real trauma and real abuse across the board. Hope this served as a model for you because what did I ask David to do? To talk to somebody who's got way more insight than I got into this particular situation. And I don't have all the answers here. So I call somebody like George. I reach out to people for additional wisdom. Always reach out and ask people hard questions. Ask, ask, ask. David, you're one of the wisest 18 year olds I've met in a long time. I'm proud of you. Follow Jordan's suggestion. Go ask some hard questions. Go visit some people. Go have meals with people. Ask hard questions. Dig in. Always default to hospitality and this world will change. We'll be right back. It is one of my most sincere honors to be partnering with an amazing supplement company. I'm talking about Thorn. Thorne is a world class, personalized and science backed supplement and health testing company used by elite athletes, thinkers, doers and world changers all over the globe. I've been taking Thorne for years, long before I was a youtuber and a podcaster.

It's where I get my creatine, my super EPA, omega fish oil and more. My kids take it. My wife takes it. Thorne is a staple in the Deloney household. Thorne is pure third party tested and they are redefining what it means to live longer and healthier. And for Deloney show listeners, Thorne is providing 25% off everything in their entire lineup. Go to thorne.com, the letter u Deloney to open up your digital dispensary. And the discount will be taken at checkout. That's thorne. Thorne.com. the letter u slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Ontario, Canada. Ontario, Ontario. I got Canada and ontario mush together. Let's go to Ontario, Canada and talk to miles. Hey, miles, what's up?

What's going on, John? How are you?

Good. What's up with you?

Not too much, man. Just want to start off by saying I really appreciate your content. I just came across a couple of weeks ago and find myself listening to you before bed. And I love what you got to say. So I appreciate your insight.

Well, I appreciate that. Go ahead and grab a ladle and drink some of the kool aid, man. You can be in the gang. We're happy to have you. So what's up, man?

Thanks. Not too much. Not too much. I just had a quick question. I figured I'd give you some context before I get into the actual situation itself. So I'm a byproduct of divorce. So my parents, my birth parents split up when I was very young, and then after that relationship, each of them got remarried, and then both of them got divorced after that. In all three instances, it was a result of infidelity on someone's part. So growing up, I kind of told myself, you know, that's something that I'm going to try not to do, you know, just try and be with people who are single, because obviously, I see how it affects other people, especially as you get older. So going into my question, I went on a work trip with a job recently, me and a coworker. We've always been friends, but recently I felt like she was kind of turning up the heat on me, and things were getting a little sexual. I would say kind of flirt with me at work and whatever else, but I try not to pay too much mind to it. On the work trip, I got, we all went out drinking after, you know, our conference, and I got a knock on my door at 02:00 a.m. and I was pretty intoxicated.

And next thing I knew, things got pretty intimate with this co worker. So, yeah, I'm kind of just stuck in the spot now where, you know, I'm not too proud of myself. I, you know, obviously there was alcohol involved, but that's not, like, a good enough excuse. Like, I knew what I was doing, and this person has a boyfriend and I'm single, but still, I just feel terrible about it. And I'm wondering, you know, how do I kind of put this in the rear view and, you know, move past it? Because I feel awful.

What do you feel awful about?

Just knowing that the person is in a relationship. And, you know, there have been times where I've gone out and things have happened with women, and I end up finding out after the fact that they have a boyfriend. I feel like that's a bit different. Like, there isn't really much I can do in that scenario. In this case, I knew going into it that she had a boyfriend, and I still went ahead with it. So just knowing that and, you know, looking at my past and what I've been through as a result of decisions like that, I just, you know, I don't feel great knowing that, you know, there's a guy out there who's, you know, just been cheated on, and I'm, like, a part of it. You know?

Yeah. I actually think there's something deeper. Are you willing to go one step deeper?

Absolutely.

Thank you. Grew up in a house where people left. People came and went. Is that fair?

Yep.

And as a little boy, you're always wondering what was so bad about here that they left? What was so bad about me that they left? Why couldn't they just, what can I do to make this right? And there's a little kid that's really, really lonely. Fair.

Yep.

One of the cheapest, quickest fixes for loneliness is alcohol. One of the cheapest, quickest fixes is it's like an emotional firecracker. We're looking for light so bad that we set everything on fire just so we can see is a hookup.

Yep.

And you hook up with somebody, and then you hook up with somebody else. And you hook up with somebody else. And you know as well as I do, yes, there's some wild times. The sex is not great. It's hollow, it's lonely.

Mm hmm.

And then you get pissed at yourself. And here's why you're getting pissed. Yes. You violated. You feel guilty that you did a thing you said you're never gonna do. Right? That's part of it. But deeper than that is you keep banging your head against the same wall and it's not solving the problem. How old are you, man?

25.

25. Everyone tells you you're in the prime of your youth. Sleep around as much as you can. Hook up. Hook up. This is the time to be doing it. You can settle down later. And what's happening is you are surrounded by water and you're out in a boat, and you keep dipping the cup out to get a drink, and it's salt water. And you're dying of thirst surrounded by water. You're so disconnected and you're looking for these cheap. You're eating out of a snack machine, dude.

Yeah.

And until you value yourself enough to get connected relationships elsewhere, you're gonna keep waking up with these. These. These moments are going to wake up a dad. Right?

Yeah. Right.

You're going to wake up having to go to the doctor and be like, uh, itches.

Yeah, fair enough.

Right?

Don't want that.

Except you're in Canada, so you're going to have to wait like, nine months to see the doctor.

Yeah, I get it for free, but next year.

Next year. That's right. You see what I'm saying? Is that ring true at all? And I know I sound like an old, like, curmudgeon, but absolutely no.

There's definitely some truth to that, you know, and I've talked to friends about this before, and that's actually part of the reason why I'm calling you is because, like I said, you know, I appreciate your insight, but I feel like this is the topic that I. You know, I've tried going to friends about and, you know, I love my friends, but I feel like the conversation just turns into, like, oh, like, why are you complaining about that?

Of course, it's the same friends who give you a bunch of. Of money tips and they're all broken up, bro. You gotta. You gotta buy bitcoin and then you gotta, like, take your points and roll it. And they're like, hey, can I borrow $50 for rent?

Exactly. The guys, I never really get advice from them.

No, no. So I appreciate you seeking wisdom elsewhere, and I. Here's what I know. What I'm asking you is a tall order, because I'm asking you to buck every bit of wisdom you get, you've gotten and that you'll continue to get.

Yeah.

Which is quit drinking. Okay, stop. If you can tell me. No, no, no. It actually has made me feel better. It's made me make good choices. It helps me do x, Y and z. Okay, cool. But I know you can't tell me that because I know the date on alcohol and I've been 25, too. Okay.

For sure.

Second thing is, you have to decide before a night starts that I'm going to be a person that I will respect in the morning. Fair enough.

Yeah, for sure.

I travel all the time, you know. Who knows where my hotel room is? Nobody.

Right.

You're a mean.

Yeah, absolutely.

I just.

I know what you mean.

But at some point you said, here's my room number.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in, like, the same hotel, like, for work.

So I stay in the same hotel with all kinds of people.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

That's valid.

Yeah. But it's a choice way upstream. And I would tell you to get a tattoo of this, but I don't want you to get a no regurgit tattoo. So, like, write this down somewhere.

Okay.

Don't. Don't forget to remember.

Okay.

Okay. It's an old ADHD saying that we throw around when I'm getting out of my car. I don't. I literally, in my mind, don't see the cups and the wrappers that I stuffed in the door and all that, but I used to. And now I've just got it so on repeat in my mind, but I used to have a note that I had taped up to my car that said, don't forget to remember. Here's what it was a reminder of. Don't forget to remember how good it feels to get into a clean car. And I would see it when I was getting out, and I would stop and I'd turn around and I would look, where's the trash? And I would see, oh, my gosh. Right? It'd be a whole basket full of it. And I want you to not forget to remember how you have a beautiful woman sitting across from you and you're two drinks in and three drinks in, and you think, this is going to go be amazing and fun. And I want you to not forget to remember Monday when seven year old Miles is still asking. I guess she doesn't love me either.

Right?

And I guess she doesn't love me. And I guess the next one doesn't. I guess the next one, because you're chasing and chasing and chasing and chasing. And at some point, you're playing roulette, you're gonna end up with a kid, some. At some point, you're playing roulette, you're gonna end up with something, but beyond that, it's not fun.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Fair.

Absolutely. Yeah, it is fair. Now you're 100% right. I feel like been in this spot for a while, and, yeah, I just keep bumping my head up against that old concrete wall. So that's definitely something I need to hear.

So I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell you to do something kind of cheesy, but I'm being very serious.

Okay.

I want you to write a letter to 30 year old miles and his wife.

Okay.

I want you to write a letter to them as a couple. And I want you to discuss the things that you decided to change at 25 to become a person, that a woman would look across the table and say, I want to ride or die with you until death do us part.

I'll do that.

And this is when I made some commitments. To honor myself, to honor my future, to honor my health, to honor my spirituality, to honor my psychology, to honor my work. And by the way, at work, you need to tell this woman directly, I'm not texting anymore. I'm not talking anymore. You have a boyfriend. What we did was wrong. And that. And we're done with that. If you can't do that, you need to be a grown up and change jobs. Right. At some point, you got to do something.

I already did that. I already did that. For sure you did what I already, like, afterwards, we had spoken, and I said, this will not happen again. Um, like, if you're in a relationship. So I've already made that step.

And she probably was like, yeah, of course. And then you're going to travel again, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so you're going to have to say, hey, I'm not drinking. What am I drinking? By the way? I went to Kelly's party the other night at this rad little bar that had a nineties cover band playing pump up the jam and poison covers. It was amazing. And I sang so loud, I was hoarse, and I didn't have any. I didn't have to drink. I went home and fell right to sleep, and I woke up not feeling like crap the next day. Not because I'm better, because I just don't want tomorrow to suck. I don't want to. I don't want to ever forget to remember how good tomorrow's going to feel. And I got to see Kelly on Monday and how hungover she was, and it was kind of. I'm just playing. I'm playing. She wasn't hungover. She wasn't hungover.

Of course not.

Yeah, right. I know.

I was playing.

You see what I'm saying, brother?

Yeah, for sure, man. That's definitely the common denominator, the alcohol, for sure.

And if you find yourself, here's what I'm asking you to do. Also. I'm asking you to go running. And I just took away both of your crutches because you probably enter into a room with your flirty 25 year old. Still has a metabolism that works self. Right, right. And you probably grease every social situation you're in with a drink.

Yep.

And you're probably after two or three drinks, you get kind of letter kinny on everybody, and you get real funny and you get loud, right?

Yeah. I would say the form round of out loud, but, yeah, I would say, okay. Yeah.

So you're gonna have to decide. I'm going to have my own value and worth at this table that is separate and apart from performing every time I get together with a group of people.

Yep. Okay.

Okay. You're gonna have some get togethers that are lonely. You're gonna have some get togethers that are quiet, that you feel like kind of a dud. And that's okay. That's just you practicing that. I don't have to have four drinks and go, ah. And then be winking at this girl and then kind of, like, brush up against her while we're both getting drinks. And then she kind of went. And then went, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna not forget to remember tomorrow. And I wanna be a person I respect in the morning. And you're gonna have to go find connection. You have to get real friends, not guys to give you stupid bitcoin and beanie baby finance advice. And, bro, just hook up. Look around, bro. Hookup culture is killing everybody. Nobody's, nobody's winning. Nobody. So be somebody that does it differently, man. Proud of you. Good on you for catching this at 25, man. You can change everything. Invite me to your wedding one day. I won't come, but Kelly might appreciate you, brother. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point.

In my new book, building a non anxious life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non anxious life. Get your copy today@johndaloney.com. all right, we're back. Am I the problem, kelly? Go for it.

Yes.

You are incorrect. Yes.

All right, so this guy asked to remain anonymous. I will say he's from kentucky.

So let's call him kelly from Kentucky. The male kelly.

All right. Several years ago, I cheated several times, and my spouse chose to stay with me. Now I am under severe scrutiny for everything, especially when my location on my phone turns off. I did not turn it off. And then I'm. The false accusations fly. Even little things turn into a huge argument. I'm not the same person I was back then. Almost every argument brought up is that you have a proven track record of blah, blah, blah. Am I the problem?

My first gut response is, how does your tracker just turn off? Does that happen? I don't know enough about technology.

I know because, like, when my son was a little younger, we had the life 360 thing. Anytime, like a phone did an update, it would turn off his location services.

Okay.

And he would have to go in and turn it back on. That's all I'm saying.

So a. That sounds sketch but fair. Let's assume this dude is. Has a bad past, he has control deleted, and he's an all new guy. This is pretty common, and it breaks my heart if somebody gets cheated on and as a couple and they go through the healing process, and that includes rebuilding trust. I get access to your phone. I want to see you see on every email, like, I'm going through phone records for six to nine months. What. Whatever you got to do, you rebuild trust. When I say I'm back in and I'm all in, I am deciding, I cannot throw this in your face forever. We got to build something new. And if every argument I just. If I stuff your past infidelity or your past financial issues or your past, whatever I put in my back pocket and I keep it there just in case I feel like I'm losing an argument and I can just throw it at you, then, yes, I am. 100% the problem. 1000%. And that means nobody's. That means she hasn't healed. I mean, she's just chose to weaponize it. And you can't build a marriage on that.

What do you think?

I 100% agree.

Okay.

I think there has to be. And I speak from a little bit of, in the middle of that right now with some stuff in our marriage, not infidelity, anything like that, but where there's been some. Some issues, and I'm the one having to come up with my spouse asking me, I need to know when I'm winning, because I feel like you're just. There's no, like, I keep moving the goalposts, basically.

Yeah.

And so I'm. That's something I'm working through because I know that's not fair.

Gotcha.

And so I think, yeah, at some point, there has to be a. An agreed upon, you know, probably with a therapist of what does that look like? How long does this last? And at some point, there has to be, okay. We're either moving past us or we're not, because that's miserable for both people if you don't.

Absolutely. And yet she's choosing to continue to carry around these past affairs, and she can't set those down. Then she doesn't need to say, no. I'm. I'm. I'm ready to go forward and rebuild a new marriage because she's not. Right. She's trying to take the old log cabin and shove it inside the living room of the new house. You can't do that. You gotta build a new house, and you gotta leave that log cabin behind. And that's scary, and that's hard because she could get hurt again. It's miserable. Right.

And I will tell you from, if she's anything like me, God help everybody, but it all comes from a place of, if I set this down, I'm allowing myself to be hurt again. And that sucks.

Yes. And it's the only way. Marriage.

That's the part we don't like right there.

Oh, I don't think any of us do.

But I'm also seeing someone to get some help with that and to walk through it and deal with it, so that's because that's what you gotta do.

That's what you gotta do. Awesome. So, yes, from what you're saying, if your phone updated and it accidentally turned off your location device, which I'm kind of calling bull crap on, then yeah, she's the problem. Sorry, brother. And I'm proud of you for making some pretty significant changes in your life. That's awesome. Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Making choices. Be kind. See you later.