Did you know that there are over a thousand hormone disruptors in our environment? They're in our food, our water, air, clothes, and skincare, wreaking havoc on our hormones. But we don't have to suffer anymore. Introducing Hormone Harmon by Happy Mammoth, an herbal formula that reduces hormonal symptoms in women of all ages. Happy Mammoth, the company that created Hormone Harmon, is dedicated to making women's lives easier. And that means only science-backed ingredients that have been proven to work women. For a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth. Com. Just use the code highlife@checkout. Hi, it's me, Ricky Lake. You probably know me for my hit '90s talk show, but if I'm being totally honest, I was juggling so much and didn't have time to stop and think about what truly went into living a full and vibrant life. Well, fast forward to today, I'm 55 and a half years old, and I am happier than ever. I'm so excited to help you find your joy on my new show, The High Life with Ricky Lake. Together, we'll learn new ways to live better. Listen to The High Life with Ricky Lake from Lemonada Media.

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This is The High Life with me, Ricky Lake, where we find out how my guests crack the code to living and vibrant life so you can, too. I am super excited to bring on the show, Alexi Pappas. She is so many things. She's a filmmaker, an actor, a writer. You know what? Yeah, she's also an Olympian. She competed for Greece in the 2016 Olympics, where she set a national record. Just a quick note to say that this episode deals with suicide, so please be mindful when and where you listen. If you or someone you know needs help, please call or text the Suicide and Crisis lifeline at 988. Alexi's incredible memoir is called Bravy, and I am so grateful to talk to her today. Welcome, Alexi.

Thank you for having me. I love your nail polish color.

Oh, thank you. I'm going to change your life right now. I'm going to just say right now, have you heard of a Russian manicure? No. It's also known as a dry manicure. It's a different way of doing a manicure pedicure. Takes twice as long. It costs a little more money, but it lasts longer. And it's pristine. Okay. So I'm going to hook you. I'll hook you up later.

Well, I'm so excited because my nails have dirt in them, and I feel like I'm the one who... I will get my nails done very rarely, but it should be at the highest level. That's how I feel.

Well, I don't know. I'm way more of a girly girl now because I'm more into fat. I just recently transformed physically. I lost all this weight, but I'm in the mood of wanting to be a girl, and so I'm taking care of my... So thank you for the compliment.

I think it's awesome. I think it's amazing.

One of the things we do at the top of the show, what are you getting high on lately? What's bringing you joy right now, would you say?

I love that question. Okay, so I would say what's bringing me joy is... This is new because you said lately, and hopefully it will last a very long time, but I think I've recently become more aware of the mystery of the universe. The mystery of the universe, I'm not going I'm not going to say it like it's silly. And I think what I mean by that is what's giving me joy is knowing that I don't know what's going to come at me and what's going to happen, but accepting that by opting into life, which I'm opting in, there's going to be good and bad things that happen. And that is a joyful surprise to me. And so I think what's giving me that high feeling is knowing that there's a never-ending reservoir of uncertainty, and that that's a really good thing. And it's making me very energized lately to think about it.

And you're at such a good age. I mean, what, you're 34, right? So you're Taylor Swift's age.

Oh, yeah. Okay. I'll always be Taylor Swift's age.

You will. I mean, that means something to me and probably a lot of other people. But when I think about it, because I have two children, I have a 27-year-old and an almost 23-year-old. So I think of my in chapters, and I think who I was at 34. I was a new mom. I was doing my talk show, which I don't even know if you grew up. Did you grow up with my show back in the day?

Yeah, I think, honestly. I grew up with these au pairs, right? So we had these babysitter that would come from other countries and stay with us. And that was... My dad was a single parent, and I'm pretty sure you were very informative to them. So it wasn't like I was sitting there glued to the show myself, but it was an influence on my influences.

Yeah, I understand. And I remember I read about your first au pair, Petra. Is her name Petra? I mean, it's devastating. You had that bond with her and they had to leave at the year mark. I can't imagine how hard that must have been for you without your mom. And I mean, the bond must have been so strong. It must be like a death over and over again for you.

Yeah, it was weird because because I got used to it. So I think it's odd when you realize that you're used to something that is a loss and that it's very normal and that it became for me... It Was it normal to think I would end up on my own. So it wasn't that I felt sorry for myself. It was more that I was like, I need to learn how to adapt and take what's good from these opportunities, whether it's a year with an au pair that I loved or anything else, and then realized that I probably won't have it forever. I think it just made me grow these muscles of like, I will walk this Earth alone.

Wow. I can't imagine. I know you lost your mom at four to suicide, which I'm not sure if you're aware. I lost my second husband to suicide and bipolar disorder. Seven years ago. So obviously very different when it's not your mom. But in going through that experience, what did that do to you as a human, a developing in the formative years? How did that impact you?

Yeah. Well, look, I think the way it really impacted me was that I didn't have a resource, right? I didn't have a resource that I would never fully understand what it was either. So I think for me, there was a strong desire to have whatever it was that that resource represented. So for me, it was I didn't have information. I didn't have this certain tender connection that I perceived in other mother-daughter relationships. I know it doesn't always happen. And a number of other things: advice, wisdom, hand me downs, whatever. I didn't have those things, but I was surrounded by other influences and a great childhood, just one that made me a little bit more scrappy, probably, And yeah, I think in my house, it was a more androgynous vibe, right? It was just we just need food on the table. We're going to play sports. We're going to cry and laugh. And it wasn't a very I wouldn't say it was a very feminine or masculine house. It was just a house of three people trying to end up okay.

And you ended up okay, more than okay. How did you turn into a sports phenomenon?

Yeah. Look, my dad knew sports, right? And he's an engineer, so he doesn't like to talk about his feelings, or maybe he does, but he doesn't know how. And sports were the most obvious way to help raise me in a community, right? It is a community thing. There's values, there's people, there's rules, there's loss. Sports are a great environment. And so he put me in sports and thought that that would be a net positive.

At what age? At what age did you start? At five, you were in the soccer, A-Y-S-O or something?

Yeah, four. It was all sports. It was basketball, soccer, softball, all these things, gymnastics even. I I was best at running, but I didn't love running until much later till college. But I loved teams, and I loved assigning a life or death goal to something that was not life or death. It was fun to die on the field for something that was a game.

And did you like... Was it winning a big part of it? Like being the best?

Yeah, it was because winning felt objective, right? And so many other things felt subjective in life of fair or unfair, love, all these ephemeral, fleeting things that you can't quite... Love is this cloud, you're trying to grab it and grasp it. But a win and a goal and a Fast, mild, time, and all these things were very objective and simple, and they were meritocracies for the most part. It's earned value, and I liked having that control where I felt so out of control at home. I also learned more recently that I think I have maybe a PTSD from some of those childhood memories where I didn't feel pain like most kids felt because there were so many things I saw that were unseeable. My mom is also bipolar. She was manic, and so there was a lot of craziness going on. I might have had adult perception or feeling of pain And so I think I could push really hard. I still can. And maybe there was an empowerment in that.

The bipolar thing, I mean, for me, I was an adult. This was my second marriage. He was not the father of my children, but witnessing a psychosis for the first time of my husband that I had spent at that time. We were together for four years, and seeing him turn into literally a different person in front of my eyes and behave waved towards me in a way that I'd never imagined. It was terrifying. I mean, that in some ways was more shocking for me than the actual him taking his life, because that I knew that he had the depression piece, too. Did your dad know to get you help? Were you able to see doctors, psychiatrists, when you lost your mom so young?

Well, he didn't tell me how she died. And that was really hard for me because I thought she died from smoking cigarettes because she smoked cigarettes. And it was the '90s when a lot of people were like, Cigarettes are bad. I was like, Well, she smoked cigarettes and she's dead now. So that must have been what killed her. I had these memories because I saved her life one time, but I didn't really understand that part until my best friend told me how she passed away. That wasn't until seventh grade. It was many years later. I guess everybody knew, and I I didn't know. My dad, I think we saw what we called a talking doctor a little bit, but I remember just them watching me play with toys. I didn't feel very loved in that environment, and it was very brief. And it felt like maybe... I mean, look, my dad was also probably grieving and trying to figure out what to do. I would say that the mental health piece was really absent in a strong way until I had a post-Olympic depression when I was 26 after the Olympics. And then I had to really get that relationship to be one that was meaningful to me.

Yes. But I think, yeah, back then, it was a It was a shameful thing to talk about. And my dad, I think, was quite embarrassed, maybe, or ashamed. I'm not going to speak for him, but I think he was confused. It was probably really hard for him to understand what was happening.

And what a kid needs in that time. We'll pick up our conversation with Alexi Pappas in a moment after a short break.

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Happy Mammoth, the creators of Hormone Harmonize, are dedicated to using only science-backed ingredients that truly work. Women can't stop talking about it. There's a bottle sold every 24 seconds. For a limited time, you can get 15% off had felt to me. And so maybe that's where athletics is helpful because you know how to find... You know the feeling of trusting someone who's not in your family with guiding you? Athletes are great at that with their coaches. So, yeah, Dr. Arpeya was a coach to me, and I met with him several times a week, so I wasn't going to practice. I was going to the doctors in Oregon. He taught me that actions change first, then thoughts, then feelings in that order only. So actions, then thoughts, then feelings. That was helpful because my feelings were awful. My thoughts were terrible. And he was like, You have thoughts, you are not your thoughts, all these principles. And maybe that also helped me is to have all these principles to lean on. And then the actions were something that he guided, and they were helpful.What were the actions that he told you to take?Well, he had me try a lot of things, and some of them weren't useful. I think that was another thing, is he said, Focus on what's useful. So for me, meditation didn't really do anything because I was way too anxious for that. But what was helpful, I mean, I was on a catalyzing medication for a few months, and that, I'm sure, helped. Being outside helped. Calling him and calling my dad whenever I needed to helped. He made me do a lot of writing exercises that just I think that stuff might reprogram some of my thoughts. And it was a lot of repetitive writing. I remember I had to write 100 times in a notebook day by day, I'm getting better in every way. It was over and over and over again. I have this in a notebook, and it's just like, I guess when your thoughts are so negative, you're trying to reinscribe on yourself. It But also, you know what's something interesting was that he did not isolate me from the world. I had appearances as an athlete that I didn't want to go to, right? Go speak at a run club in Texas, in Grapevine, Texas.I was like, I can't do that. I'm like, Out of my mind. He's like, Well, I think you can do that. He knew to keep me involved in things that gave me value in the world. They were the hardest things I ever did. But he was there. He was texting me. I wrote the speech ahead of time, and I somehow managed to do it. And I think him keeping me connected with the world was important because a lot of times, depression makes you feel completely disconnected.Yeah. And alone. Absolutely. He sounds amazing. I wish all doctors were like him.Yeah, he's amazing.Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a short break, and we'll be right back with Alexi Pappas. Do you ever get hit with a cringy memory of your 13-year-old self out of nowhere and suddenly you're panicked, sweating and laughing at the same time? Don't worry, we all get that. It's because being an adolescent is one of the most visceral shared experiences we have as people, and we want to talk about it. Join me, Penn Badgley, and my two friends, Nava and Sophie, on Podcrushed, as we interview celebrity guests about the joys and horrors of being a teenager and how those moments made them who they are today. The new episodes of Podcrush are out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Alicia Haley. And I'm Kate Manig. 20 years ago, we met plain best friends on the set of the TV show, The L-word, which quickly morphed into us being actual best friends for the rest of our lives. Truly, it feels like we're an old married couple, but with fewer cats, although we each have a number of cats in our lives, and we're pretty much inseparable and have more or less zero boundaries.Hence why we named our podcast Pants, because at this point, you can't have one leg without the other. And each week, we catch up with each other on the big and small things going on in our lives, which then leads to much oversharing and little left to the imagination, whether it's sex or therapy or money fears. Literally nothing is off the table in terms of discussion topics.And we also like to talk about that wild ride that was the L word, the genesis of our friendship.And Pants is out now, wherever you get your podcasts from Lemonada Media. I wanted to ask you about the title of your book, Bravy. What does that mean to you, if you could describe that?Yeah. Well, the word comes from the word brave, but I think the made up element of it, that it's not a real word, that it's more of a noun that you can assign yourself, is way more me, because I think the words in the world that already exist are things that people might have to assign to you. So pretty or fast, you really have to earn. People assign to you or you have to earn them. So I think the word bravey is just a choice, and that feels awesome to me. You can just decide, I am a bravey, and it means this to me. And I think to give people that... Well, one, people responded to it, right? So I pay attention to what are these people that I'm connecting with responding to. But two, I think they responded to it because It's helpful to have some things in life that you can just decide to be, much like your nail polish color. You're like, I am this nail polish color. It's empowering to have it be something you choose. I think braveies are curious, but also we fall down, right? And there's a sense of not sheltering yourself from the challenges in life, but approaching them like an Alice in Wonderland, where it's like, yeah, life is wild and labyrinthian, but that's what we're choosing.Can we talk about glop for a minute? Sure. Because you mentioned it in your book. Is it an actual word or is it something you made up? It's a word, right?I don't know I don't know if it's a word, but one of my mentors and my doctors told me about it, which maybe the scientific word is something else. This is the liquid state of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. The chrysalis. The chrysalis, yeah. Whatever they are inside the chrysalis, I call it glop. And I'm curious about your evolution, too, is when you're going through change, it doesn't always feel so great during that transformation time, especially initially when your old normal unravels and disintegrates. And it's a shock, right?Yeah. It's a loss, too. It's like it's having to reinvent and figure out your way out of something. I I've had many, many chrysalis moments in my life, both personally, professionally, physically. Yeah. And you come on the other side and it's a gift. It's always for me. All the trauma that I've gone through and the loss. On the other side of it, it makes sense. I can speak for myself. I'm a better me having gone through all of those hardships and all of those transitions, all the glop.Yeah. I'm genuinely curious, when you're going through a change, when you're in glop, does it get easier? Because you've gone through many changes in your life. So is glop easier in its later iterations?I mean, it seems easier because the time has passed. I'm trying to think of which thing that I've gone through. It's worth it. Like on the other side of all the stuff we go through, I think it makes us evolve into better, more empathic, more just conscious people. I know in my case, I have such gratitude for all of the chapters and all of the stuff I've gone through. I'm 20 years older than you, but I feel like you have this wisdom that I don't think I had at your age.Well, Well, I think maybe what changes for us... I mean, you and I both had a Olympics in a way. Yours was just a repeated Olympics.Are you referring to my show?I'm referring to your show in terms I mean, that's what I'm thinking about. And I think that what's interesting about that and the Olympics is it's a peak that is outward-facing, right? It's an outward-facing achievement, right? But I think that since then, for me personally, my goals have become less objective and singular and shiny objects. So it's not an Olympics. And I don't know if you agree with that for your own life, of it's not this one thing that you need or want. And I would guess by being a podcast host and all the other things you're doing now, you're interested more broadly in where your life is going instead of more point-specific. That's very true. Well, and so what that means is we are moving more toward North stars that are feelings and values versus objective goals, right? And that I find very interesting because it's like, okay, if the North Star is a feeling or a value, then it puts you in a galaxy underneath it all that is all in service of the feeling or the value that you're aligned with now. And it doesn't have to be just one thing. It can be a number of pursuits.And if one gets taken away from you, you can find another to get that same feeling. And I'm saying this because you said all of your hardships, your challenges have somehow been worth it. And I think it's because you're in the right galaxy. You're in the galaxy moving toward the things that are important to you. And so anything that's hard is still moving you toward there because it's an opportunity to exercise your values that you now have and the feelings.Totally. And And I think it's perspective, too, because it's the way you see it. And so I feel like of late, I'm really in this place of just appreciation for all of it. And then I deserve it. That's the other thing. It's like this self-love thing that comes through, all the hard stuff that we go through. I'm sure you must have this sense of self and achievement. I would imagine you really feel like you're the shit, right? Look at this beautiful book that you wrote. Look at this incredible achievement with the Olympics and making these movies. I mean, you're doing it all. I hope you sit back and receive. Please receive from me that you are doing remarkable things. When you got your personal best, I mean, what did that feel like? Did you feel your mother's energy and presence? Do you feel her along all these incredible accolades and achievements that you've had? Do you feel her supporting you on the other side? Yeah.I believe that I feel her most in specific moments of kismet good and bad luck, to be honest. And that's more in everyday life. So when I lose a favorite headband for three days, and then I find it in this very obscure spot, I'm like, Okay, she hid it from me, and then I found it again. Or I I don't know. I had a film premiere last week that coincided with a race, and I wouldn't have been able to do both unless they were in the same place, and they were. I think those are the things that maybe I'm connected with her on or I meet somebody. I think when it comes to an accomplishment, like the Olympics or these moments, I know that I worked my butt off to be there. I think those are more moments where I'm proud of myself and I have a deepened relationship with myself. I'm sure she's very proud, But I'm sure she's very impressed. Not necessarily she did that race for me, if that makes sense. It's like she's there, but she's there more in the process. As far as the I'm the shit thing, I think how I really feel is that I just want to keep being in the game.I just like playing in this life, and I know that no one is going to take care of me more than I'm going to take care of myself. So I hope that I still continue to have the opportunities to play whatever, the arts, sports. But that's really like when I sit down and feel proud, I'm more like, I'm just happy that I get to keep playing. That's what I really want.Yeah. And you're still actively a competitive runner, yes?I'm running some trail races competitively, and then I'm guiding for blind athletes and running as more like a mentor. So I'm going to the Olympics this summer, but I'm mentoring Olympians and running in this marathon at night. It's a marathon for the people. So I'm like a fairy god sister in that way.I love hiking, and I've recently just lost all this weight. I lost 40 pounds without drugs, and I'm in this I'm 55, and yet I feel like I'm the fittest I've ever been in my life. I feel the best in my skin right now, and it is like a protocol. I go hiking every single day where I live in Malibu, three miles with my dog, and I do Pilates, and I do all these things. But what are some of your rituals to keep you motivated when maybe some days you don't feel like running?Let's see. I have a coffee routine in the morning, and it brings me great joy. I make a goat milk latte with collagen, and I know where the Where did you get the coffee beans come from. So I think first the routines come with a belief in what I'm doing and that it's like a loving... Coming from a loving place, whether it's coffee or food in general. When I was training for the Olympics, I knew the farmers that I bought the food from and the butchers and all that. And so I think I have an emotional connection to what I put in my body. I think that's one thing. I pick out clothes that make me feel like a little superhero. So I think when I'm going out to train or go on a hike, because I like hiking, too. And I think I'm at the other end of all the trails that you're on because I'm top of Topanga, basically. So I think I could walk a certain distance and meet you somewhere.Yeah, I could see you up at Topanga Lookout. Yeah, exactly. That amazing short hike. Yeah. Yeah.Okay, so there's that.You wear glitter, you wear that high ponytail.Yeah. Look, aren't these all things that either make what we're doing feel more official, right? Whether it's like you decide what time you're going out the door or more fun, a little more fun. Like, this isn't punishment, right? It's a choice we're making.I feel like you need to come over someday and we should go on a hike or maybe go on a run or something.We should hike, please. And we could hike jog.I would love that. I have to say for my mood, my mental health, it's become my meditation. I go every morning, usually with my husband, sometimes he can't go, and I go with my little rescue dog. It's like a choice. It's like I've flipped the script. It's not a chore. It's a privilege. I actually look at it as being 55 and my body is fit and healthy and well, and I don't hurt anywhere. It is a privilege that I get to actually move my body and live in this beautiful part of the world. Like I said, flipping the script, that's how I look at it. Because I'm someone that hated exercise. I hated dieting. I hated my body. And it's just a really nice place to be, to be 55 and actually love my body and feel so strong. I feel as much as You could be my child, your age. I feel a kinship. I feel like we're connected in some way through a lot of what our experiences have been. Tell me about Mentor Buffet.Oh, this show. Oh, my gosh. So Mentor Buffet is a podcast that is talking to people who influence us about people who influence them. So I think the idea is really that we may or may not have direct access to mentors. And mentors could be someone who gave you advice one time in your life. That is mentorship if it guided you. And I'm interested in talking to people in different industries who have a to accomplish something that they probably did not do alone and learning about what those lessons were and learning how these people think, not necessarily what they do, but how they think.That's super interesting. You're amazing. I really I enjoyed this conversation. I think you're awesome, and I'm totally going to meet you for a hike.I would love that. I think your life has been... It's very unique, and you're curiosity is so obviously... It's fueling you, it seems. I feel like your journey with your body and movement is really special, too, because I guess it's just I take for granted sometimes. We are carrying this vessel around, and it must be really hard and then really, really euphoric to find out that it can be your best teammate.My meat suit is my best friend.Oh, that's awesome. Wait, what's a meat suit? Is that a body? A meat suit.That's a body. My meat suit. Oh, that's so cute. We're all just a meat suit. I'm still a walk in progress, a work in progress. I still have moments of just, Oh, I see my skin is sagging here, whatever. But I go back to just appreciation that I'm healthy, that I'm healthy, that I feel good, And so, yeah, it's just my journey is one I'm still very much on. Alexi, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me.Thank you. I think if you start some a walking group or write a book, it should be called a Walk in Progress.I'm writing that down.You said it, and it was your Freudian slip. And I was like, wait, that's an amazing way. That's a better way than saying Work in Progress, right? And it's more related to you.Oh, my gosh. A walk in progress. I love that. This woman, I'm telling you, she's got so much depth. I was so impressed with her. She's a badass. And I have to say, if anyone was to convince me to become a runner, I think it was her because I've never been interested in running. It is not my thing. But hearing about what it's done for her mental health along with her physical health, it's definitely made me think twice, and I might just start. Alexi Pappas' memoir is called Bravy. I highly recommend it, and keep an ear out for her upcoming podcast, Mentor Buffet. Thank you so much for listening. There's more of the high life with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like rapid fire Q&A's with my guests. You won't want to miss. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. The High Life is a production of Lemonada Media. Isabella Colcarny and Katherine Barnes produce our show. Our mix is by James Barber. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittelswax and Jessica Cordova-Kramer. Additional Lemonada support from Rachel Neil and Steve Nelson. You can find me @Ricky Lake on Instagram. Follow The High Life with Ricky Lake wherever you get your podcast or listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.What do weddings, Instagram, and toxic relationships all have in common? They take your money and you can't get it back.16 grand somewhere in there. Gone.There's no legal solution for the fact that you married an asshole. Welcome to The Dough. I'm ExMio. We're diving into the stories surrounding the moolah baby, the good, the Bad, and the unexpected.Yeah, we're talking about it all.The Dough is out now, wherever you get your podcast.Today, roughly 42 million unpaid caregivers care for older loved ones in the United States. By 2050, older adults will represent over 20% of the population. How are we going to care for all of them? Join me, Sujan Park, the host of Uncared For, as I turn the spotlight on the emotional highs and lows of elder care in season 2. Through intimate conversations with family caregivers, we'll explore what it takes to ensure our loved ones can age with dignity. Uncared For from Lemenada Media and the Commonwealth Fund is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

had felt to me. And so maybe that's where athletics is helpful because you know how to find... You know the feeling of trusting someone who's not in your family with guiding you? Athletes are great at that with their coaches. So, yeah, Dr. Arpeya was a coach to me, and I met with him several times a week, so I wasn't going to practice. I was going to the doctors in Oregon. He taught me that actions change first, then thoughts, then feelings in that order only. So actions, then thoughts, then feelings. That was helpful because my feelings were awful. My thoughts were terrible. And he was like, You have thoughts, you are not your thoughts, all these principles. And maybe that also helped me is to have all these principles to lean on. And then the actions were something that he guided, and they were helpful.

What were the actions that he told you to take?

Well, he had me try a lot of things, and some of them weren't useful. I think that was another thing, is he said, Focus on what's useful. So for me, meditation didn't really do anything because I was way too anxious for that. But what was helpful, I mean, I was on a catalyzing medication for a few months, and that, I'm sure, helped. Being outside helped. Calling him and calling my dad whenever I needed to helped. He made me do a lot of writing exercises that just I think that stuff might reprogram some of my thoughts. And it was a lot of repetitive writing. I remember I had to write 100 times in a notebook day by day, I'm getting better in every way. It was over and over and over again. I have this in a notebook, and it's just like, I guess when your thoughts are so negative, you're trying to reinscribe on yourself. It But also, you know what's something interesting was that he did not isolate me from the world. I had appearances as an athlete that I didn't want to go to, right? Go speak at a run club in Texas, in Grapevine, Texas.

I was like, I can't do that. I'm like, Out of my mind. He's like, Well, I think you can do that. He knew to keep me involved in things that gave me value in the world. They were the hardest things I ever did. But he was there. He was texting me. I wrote the speech ahead of time, and I somehow managed to do it. And I think him keeping me connected with the world was important because a lot of times, depression makes you feel completely disconnected.

Yeah. And alone. Absolutely. He sounds amazing. I wish all doctors were like him.

Yeah, he's amazing.

Don't go anywhere. We're going to take a short break, and we'll be right back with Alexi Pappas. Do you ever get hit with a cringy memory of your 13-year-old self out of nowhere and suddenly you're panicked, sweating and laughing at the same time? Don't worry, we all get that. It's because being an adolescent is one of the most visceral shared experiences we have as people, and we want to talk about it. Join me, Penn Badgley, and my two friends, Nava and Sophie, on Podcrushed, as we interview celebrity guests about the joys and horrors of being a teenager and how those moments made them who they are today. The new episodes of Podcrush are out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Alicia Haley. And I'm Kate Manig. 20 years ago, we met plain best friends on the set of the TV show, The L-word, which quickly morphed into us being actual best friends for the rest of our lives. Truly, it feels like we're an old married couple, but with fewer cats, although we each have a number of cats in our lives, and we're pretty much inseparable and have more or less zero boundaries.

Hence why we named our podcast Pants, because at this point, you can't have one leg without the other. And each week, we catch up with each other on the big and small things going on in our lives, which then leads to much oversharing and little left to the imagination, whether it's sex or therapy or money fears. Literally nothing is off the table in terms of discussion topics.

And we also like to talk about that wild ride that was the L word, the genesis of our friendship.

And Pants is out now, wherever you get your podcasts from Lemonada Media. I wanted to ask you about the title of your book, Bravy. What does that mean to you, if you could describe that?

Yeah. Well, the word comes from the word brave, but I think the made up element of it, that it's not a real word, that it's more of a noun that you can assign yourself, is way more me, because I think the words in the world that already exist are things that people might have to assign to you. So pretty or fast, you really have to earn. People assign to you or you have to earn them. So I think the word bravey is just a choice, and that feels awesome to me. You can just decide, I am a bravey, and it means this to me. And I think to give people that... Well, one, people responded to it, right? So I pay attention to what are these people that I'm connecting with responding to. But two, I think they responded to it because It's helpful to have some things in life that you can just decide to be, much like your nail polish color. You're like, I am this nail polish color. It's empowering to have it be something you choose. I think braveies are curious, but also we fall down, right? And there's a sense of not sheltering yourself from the challenges in life, but approaching them like an Alice in Wonderland, where it's like, yeah, life is wild and labyrinthian, but that's what we're choosing.

Can we talk about glop for a minute? Sure. Because you mentioned it in your book. Is it an actual word or is it something you made up? It's a word, right?

I don't know I don't know if it's a word, but one of my mentors and my doctors told me about it, which maybe the scientific word is something else. This is the liquid state of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. The chrysalis. The chrysalis, yeah. Whatever they are inside the chrysalis, I call it glop. And I'm curious about your evolution, too, is when you're going through change, it doesn't always feel so great during that transformation time, especially initially when your old normal unravels and disintegrates. And it's a shock, right?

Yeah. It's a loss, too. It's like it's having to reinvent and figure out your way out of something. I I've had many, many chrysalis moments in my life, both personally, professionally, physically. Yeah. And you come on the other side and it's a gift. It's always for me. All the trauma that I've gone through and the loss. On the other side of it, it makes sense. I can speak for myself. I'm a better me having gone through all of those hardships and all of those transitions, all the glop.

Yeah. I'm genuinely curious, when you're going through a change, when you're in glop, does it get easier? Because you've gone through many changes in your life. So is glop easier in its later iterations?

I mean, it seems easier because the time has passed. I'm trying to think of which thing that I've gone through. It's worth it. Like on the other side of all the stuff we go through, I think it makes us evolve into better, more empathic, more just conscious people. I know in my case, I have such gratitude for all of the chapters and all of the stuff I've gone through. I'm 20 years older than you, but I feel like you have this wisdom that I don't think I had at your age.

Well, Well, I think maybe what changes for us... I mean, you and I both had a Olympics in a way. Yours was just a repeated Olympics.

Are you referring to my show?

I'm referring to your show in terms I mean, that's what I'm thinking about. And I think that what's interesting about that and the Olympics is it's a peak that is outward-facing, right? It's an outward-facing achievement, right? But I think that since then, for me personally, my goals have become less objective and singular and shiny objects. So it's not an Olympics. And I don't know if you agree with that for your own life, of it's not this one thing that you need or want. And I would guess by being a podcast host and all the other things you're doing now, you're interested more broadly in where your life is going instead of more point-specific. That's very true. Well, and so what that means is we are moving more toward North stars that are feelings and values versus objective goals, right? And that I find very interesting because it's like, okay, if the North Star is a feeling or a value, then it puts you in a galaxy underneath it all that is all in service of the feeling or the value that you're aligned with now. And it doesn't have to be just one thing. It can be a number of pursuits.

And if one gets taken away from you, you can find another to get that same feeling. And I'm saying this because you said all of your hardships, your challenges have somehow been worth it. And I think it's because you're in the right galaxy. You're in the galaxy moving toward the things that are important to you. And so anything that's hard is still moving you toward there because it's an opportunity to exercise your values that you now have and the feelings.

Totally. And And I think it's perspective, too, because it's the way you see it. And so I feel like of late, I'm really in this place of just appreciation for all of it. And then I deserve it. That's the other thing. It's like this self-love thing that comes through, all the hard stuff that we go through. I'm sure you must have this sense of self and achievement. I would imagine you really feel like you're the shit, right? Look at this beautiful book that you wrote. Look at this incredible achievement with the Olympics and making these movies. I mean, you're doing it all. I hope you sit back and receive. Please receive from me that you are doing remarkable things. When you got your personal best, I mean, what did that feel like? Did you feel your mother's energy and presence? Do you feel her along all these incredible accolades and achievements that you've had? Do you feel her supporting you on the other side? Yeah.

I believe that I feel her most in specific moments of kismet good and bad luck, to be honest. And that's more in everyday life. So when I lose a favorite headband for three days, and then I find it in this very obscure spot, I'm like, Okay, she hid it from me, and then I found it again. Or I I don't know. I had a film premiere last week that coincided with a race, and I wouldn't have been able to do both unless they were in the same place, and they were. I think those are the things that maybe I'm connected with her on or I meet somebody. I think when it comes to an accomplishment, like the Olympics or these moments, I know that I worked my butt off to be there. I think those are more moments where I'm proud of myself and I have a deepened relationship with myself. I'm sure she's very proud, But I'm sure she's very impressed. Not necessarily she did that race for me, if that makes sense. It's like she's there, but she's there more in the process. As far as the I'm the shit thing, I think how I really feel is that I just want to keep being in the game.

I just like playing in this life, and I know that no one is going to take care of me more than I'm going to take care of myself. So I hope that I still continue to have the opportunities to play whatever, the arts, sports. But that's really like when I sit down and feel proud, I'm more like, I'm just happy that I get to keep playing. That's what I really want.

Yeah. And you're still actively a competitive runner, yes?

I'm running some trail races competitively, and then I'm guiding for blind athletes and running as more like a mentor. So I'm going to the Olympics this summer, but I'm mentoring Olympians and running in this marathon at night. It's a marathon for the people. So I'm like a fairy god sister in that way.

I love hiking, and I've recently just lost all this weight. I lost 40 pounds without drugs, and I'm in this I'm 55, and yet I feel like I'm the fittest I've ever been in my life. I feel the best in my skin right now, and it is like a protocol. I go hiking every single day where I live in Malibu, three miles with my dog, and I do Pilates, and I do all these things. But what are some of your rituals to keep you motivated when maybe some days you don't feel like running?

Let's see. I have a coffee routine in the morning, and it brings me great joy. I make a goat milk latte with collagen, and I know where the Where did you get the coffee beans come from. So I think first the routines come with a belief in what I'm doing and that it's like a loving... Coming from a loving place, whether it's coffee or food in general. When I was training for the Olympics, I knew the farmers that I bought the food from and the butchers and all that. And so I think I have an emotional connection to what I put in my body. I think that's one thing. I pick out clothes that make me feel like a little superhero. So I think when I'm going out to train or go on a hike, because I like hiking, too. And I think I'm at the other end of all the trails that you're on because I'm top of Topanga, basically. So I think I could walk a certain distance and meet you somewhere.

Yeah, I could see you up at Topanga Lookout. Yeah, exactly. That amazing short hike. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so there's that.

You wear glitter, you wear that high ponytail.

Yeah. Look, aren't these all things that either make what we're doing feel more official, right? Whether it's like you decide what time you're going out the door or more fun, a little more fun. Like, this isn't punishment, right? It's a choice we're making.

I feel like you need to come over someday and we should go on a hike or maybe go on a run or something.

We should hike, please. And we could hike jog.

I would love that. I have to say for my mood, my mental health, it's become my meditation. I go every morning, usually with my husband, sometimes he can't go, and I go with my little rescue dog. It's like a choice. It's like I've flipped the script. It's not a chore. It's a privilege. I actually look at it as being 55 and my body is fit and healthy and well, and I don't hurt anywhere. It is a privilege that I get to actually move my body and live in this beautiful part of the world. Like I said, flipping the script, that's how I look at it. Because I'm someone that hated exercise. I hated dieting. I hated my body. And it's just a really nice place to be, to be 55 and actually love my body and feel so strong. I feel as much as You could be my child, your age. I feel a kinship. I feel like we're connected in some way through a lot of what our experiences have been. Tell me about Mentor Buffet.

Oh, this show. Oh, my gosh. So Mentor Buffet is a podcast that is talking to people who influence us about people who influence them. So I think the idea is really that we may or may not have direct access to mentors. And mentors could be someone who gave you advice one time in your life. That is mentorship if it guided you. And I'm interested in talking to people in different industries who have a to accomplish something that they probably did not do alone and learning about what those lessons were and learning how these people think, not necessarily what they do, but how they think.

That's super interesting. You're amazing. I really I enjoyed this conversation. I think you're awesome, and I'm totally going to meet you for a hike.

I would love that. I think your life has been... It's very unique, and you're curiosity is so obviously... It's fueling you, it seems. I feel like your journey with your body and movement is really special, too, because I guess it's just I take for granted sometimes. We are carrying this vessel around, and it must be really hard and then really, really euphoric to find out that it can be your best teammate.

My meat suit is my best friend.

Oh, that's awesome. Wait, what's a meat suit? Is that a body? A meat suit.

That's a body. My meat suit. Oh, that's so cute. We're all just a meat suit. I'm still a walk in progress, a work in progress. I still have moments of just, Oh, I see my skin is sagging here, whatever. But I go back to just appreciation that I'm healthy, that I'm healthy, that I feel good, And so, yeah, it's just my journey is one I'm still very much on. Alexi, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me.

Thank you. I think if you start some a walking group or write a book, it should be called a Walk in Progress.

I'm writing that down.

You said it, and it was your Freudian slip. And I was like, wait, that's an amazing way. That's a better way than saying Work in Progress, right? And it's more related to you.

Oh, my gosh. A walk in progress. I love that. This woman, I'm telling you, she's got so much depth. I was so impressed with her. She's a badass. And I have to say, if anyone was to convince me to become a runner, I think it was her because I've never been interested in running. It is not my thing. But hearing about what it's done for her mental health along with her physical health, it's definitely made me think twice, and I might just start. Alexi Pappas' memoir is called Bravy. I highly recommend it, and keep an ear out for her upcoming podcast, Mentor Buffet. Thank you so much for listening. There's more of the high life with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like rapid fire Q&A's with my guests. You won't want to miss. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. The High Life is a production of Lemonada Media. Isabella Colcarny and Katherine Barnes produce our show. Our mix is by James Barber. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittelswax and Jessica Cordova-Kramer. Additional Lemonada support from Rachel Neil and Steve Nelson. You can find me @Ricky Lake on Instagram. Follow The High Life with Ricky Lake wherever you get your podcast or listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership.

What do weddings, Instagram, and toxic relationships all have in common? They take your money and you can't get it back.

16 grand somewhere in there. Gone.

There's no legal solution for the fact that you married an asshole. Welcome to The Dough. I'm ExMio. We're diving into the stories surrounding the moolah baby, the good, the Bad, and the unexpected.

Yeah, we're talking about it all.

The Dough is out now, wherever you get your podcast.

Today, roughly 42 million unpaid caregivers care for older loved ones in the United States. By 2050, older adults will represent over 20% of the population. How are we going to care for all of them? Join me, Sujan Park, the host of Uncared For, as I turn the spotlight on the emotional highs and lows of elder care in season 2. Through intimate conversations with family caregivers, we'll explore what it takes to ensure our loved ones can age with dignity. Uncared For from Lemenada Media and the Commonwealth Fund is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.