We all know what that music means. It's time for the Olympics in Paris. I'm Matt Rogers. And I'm Bowen Yang.

And we're doing an Olympics podcast? Yeah. We're hosting the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast. Watch every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympics beginning July 26th on NBC and Peacock. And for the first time, you can stream the 2024 Paris Games on the iHeartRadio app. And listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Since it was established in 1861, there have been 3,517 people awarded with the medal. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and our new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia is about those heroes, what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Metal of Honor: Stories of Courage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone. It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck, and vanished.

A truck and two people just don't disappear.

The FBI called it murder for hire. But which victim was the intended target and why? Listen to There and Gone, South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We all like to believe in our hearts that if we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get a spidey sense. Did you have that feeling that he was capable or off?

To be I never got any of those feelings. However, I do remember this one incident that happened.

This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Season 2, episode 3, In Class with Kauberger. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Gabe Castillo. On November 13th, 2022, the murders of four young co-eds at the University of Idaho left senseless tragedy in its wake. From the lives lost to devastated family members and friends to terrified students left behind wondering what's next. But beyond that is what transpired in accused murderer Brian Kauberger's orbit. We don't know if Kauberger's guilt or innocence, he is presumed innocent unless otherwise determined in a court of law. What we do know is that the accused was a criminology PhD student and teacher's assistant at Washington State University, Pullman. We also know that after the murders, up until he left campus in mid-December, Kauberger attended classes. In an effort to gain a greater understanding of what happened during that time, Stephanie Lidecker speaks with a former criminology student in Coa Berger's class, Cassie. Cassie has never spoken out before, and we're withholding her last name to protect her privacy. Here's Stephanie.

There's been a lot of press about this case out there. So really, our goal is always less about the massacre itself and more about the human experience, right? You have such a unique perspective on that. So take me back to day one, how you got to that particular school and what you're studying and even the first day of class. Are you a criminology major?

Not anymore. No. It makes sense.

Is that the event? Sometimes paths shift, right? So your destiny has been obviously wildly affected by this particular crime, so for obvious reasons. So, yeah, just take me back to your experience at school and how you made it to that class.

All right. Well, I thought about criminology for a while because it's just like, it's so interesting to get into. You get to learn about literally the criminal behavior of these criminals' minds and what works. And so I was also considering psychology at the time, which is now my major. I had that as a minor. But yeah, so the second week I remember going, and he did introduce Brian and his other TA, I forgot his name, and then just went into the details of the class. And this So the class was pretty big. I would say 300 students. It was a lecture hall. So very, very big class.

Just for clarity, Brian Kauberger, the accused, he was the teacher's assistant, right? We always call it a TA, but that's short for teacher's assistant, right?

Yeah. So he was the teacher's assistant, their little helper, while they're still in school, basically, just to get the knowledge.

So to be a teacher's assistant, it's like a secondary teacher, obviously, right? They're a current student. In Brian's case, he was getting his PhD and was also working as a teacher's assistant in this particular criminology class, which makes sense. They help with grading. Do they participate in class?

They do. Usually, it's when a teacher notices a kid doing up and above. So just doing all their work, just really teaching others. That's just how they pick out the TAs, just who stands out to them.

So Brian was probably a pretty exemplary student in order to even have that a prestigious place?

Definitely. I think so. He definitely had some knowledge to get in there. Our professor was a very tough dude, so it had to take a lot for him to see something.

In a statement, Washington University's vice President of Marketing and Communication says that, Mr. Koubiger receives received an appointment as a teaching assistant at Washington State University during the fall 2022 semester. It is typical for students to receive a teaching assistantship or similar appointment as part of their PhD program, Wheeler explained. Here again, Cassie and Stephanie.

What was the class about?

We covered literally how to get away with murder. We covered pretty good basis because Because our professor at the time, he was a very knowledgeable man. He worked with judges, and he was a lawyer for years, and he worked with a lot of authority. So he wanted to teach it how he learned, which was case studies, actually living it. So we went into a lot of detail about criminal behavior, the behavior, why criminals do the thing. But this was more about cases. We would look over a lot of cases and things like that, and we would go over the law. So a lot of just criminal justice things, a lot of lawyer and judge work.

Is there a part of you? Because I'm still on the fence of I really want to believe that Brian Kauberger is innocent. He claims his innocence. I want to believe that because I like to believe that a human being couldn't pull that off. But again, I don't know him the way you do. Is there a part of you that thinks maybe he is innocent?

There is, yeah. I've had a lot of people reach out to me just bashing him. A lot of newspapers and stuff like that just trying to get every little scoop out of me to make him out to be a bad guy. But in reality, this is someone's life that we're talking about, and it's his reality as well. So there's a lot to take into consideration there. Why would you want someone to go through all that and do all that and to think that they would be capable of something like that? It blows my mind how people thinking about this case.

In retrospect, what did he seem like?

I remember walking in. Actually, he was pretty noticeable, believe it or not. But I walked in, saw him, and he just didn't say anything for weeks. He just stood there fiddling with his cup. And this class was an hour and a half long, sometimes up to two hours. It just depended. It was a very long class for him to just be standing up in the front in front of everyone. So when I was bored in the class, I would honestly just watch him because I had nothing to do. I already looked at the notes and stuff, and so I would just like, there's nothing else to watch.

And did that seem weird to have somebody just standing there for an hour and a half? Is that normal or was that odd behavior?

With my other TAs, they were definitely on their laptop. Sometimes you would see him go on here and there, but never for more than 10 minutes, I would say. Or he would just sit down in front of the class, or sometimes he wouldn't even be there. It would just be the professor. But compared to our other TA, he would be on his laptop. Our teacher would be asking him to go do TA things like, Hey, can you pull up this lecture? And stuff like that. I just never saw any of that from Brian.

Was he just also observing the class, or did it seem like he was just staring off into space?

Off to space, honestly. He would look up a couple of times, but honestly, just in his own little world.

And did he seem like he was interested in the content, or you know how somebody, you could see them and they look like they already know the information, so they're just nodding along. Or was he checked out?

I would say both. Most of the time when he He looked like me in that situation. He was just sometimes nodding here and there. I remember the professor trying to get his attention a couple of times, and it would take him a couple of times to snap into it.

So here you are, you're in your criminology class. You're just observing 300-ish people around you. And yeah, you just are looking at the people in front of you. So in this case, it's the professor and two additional teacher assistants. He's one of them. And did Brian Kauberger and the other teacher assistant have any a rapport?

No. I think I saw them together in the class maybe one time. But other than that, they're either switching off or there was no TA at all.

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone. It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck and vanished.

Nobody hears anything. Nobody sees anything.

Did they run away? Was it an accident or were they murdered?

A truck and two people just don't disappear.

The FBI called it murder for hire.

It was definitely murder for hire for Danielle, not for Richard. He's your son, and in your eyes, he's innocent. But in my eyes, he's just some guy my sister was with.

In this series, I dig into my own investigation to find answers for the families and get justice for Richard and Danielle.

Listen to There and Gone, South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

We all know what that music means. Is somebody getting coronated? No. It's time to the Olympics in Paris.

The opening ceremony for the 2024 Paris Games is coming on July 26.

Who are these athletes? When are the games they're playing? You may be looking for the sports experts to answer those questions, but we're not that.

Well, what are we? We're two guys. I'm Matt Rogers.

And I'm Bowen Yang.

And we're doing an Olympics podcast? Yeah. We're hosting the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast.

You get the Two Guys, us, to start every podcast. Then the Five Rings come after.

Watch every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympics beginning July 26th on NBC and Peacock. And for the first time, you can stream the 2024 Paris Games on the iHeartRadio app. And listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States, awarded for gallantry and bravery in combat at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty. Since it was established in 1861, there had been 3,517 people awarded with the medal. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and our new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia is about those heroes, what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice.

Without him and the leadership that he exhibited in bringing those boats in and assembling them to begin with and bringing them in, it saved a hell of a lot of lives, including my own.

Listen to Medal of Honor: Stories of Courage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

How would you describe him physically?

He had a very clean look, very always shaven, very hair done. He was always wearing sweaters and jeans and looked nice. He was tall, white, dark hair, very skinny, slim, slim fit. He just always seemed like he was just there, not interacting or anything, just there.

You had said that he seemed noticeable at first. What was noticeable? The fact that he was so quiet?

I guess so. I just wasn't what I was expecting when I first walked in the class. It was a lot to take in all at once. I feel like we were getting a lot of information, and half the time my brain would just check out and just automatic eyes to him because he was the only other person down there.

Did he have any friends?

Not that I saw. I mean, he was a very close TA. Some TAs like to share about their life and give us a whole PowerPoint and stuff, and he never saw that one from him. So I don't know much about his personal life, but very kept to himself. Anytime I saw him on campus or in class or office hours.

Did you have office hours with him?

Yes. It would be with a couple kids. I only went twice. Both times were unhelpful, so I left. It's basically just a time to ask him questions, to ask him about work, to do work with him, to need help on case studies, just anything like that, or even studying for a next exam or quiz. Those are what office hours are supposed to be for. But most of the time, it was just a bunch of kids either doing group together or just a quiet place, like study or wherever. And he would just be on his lap, close off to himself.

Did he ever ask any personal questions to you?

No. No. I remember trying to have a conversation one time because I need help with one of the assignments, and it was just like, Well, did you review the work? And I'm like, Yes, I reviewed the work. And so gave my attitude back, but it was I don't know. After that time, I think I just didn't end up going.

So everybody wants to know the same thing, right? We all like to believe in our hearts that if we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get a spidey sense, or people always talk about, I had a sixth sense. So part of even why it's so important to talk about this stuff is, I'm so curious, did you have that feeling that he was capable or all off? People have called him in the press, very creepy in retrospect, or did he just seem like an ordinary guy?

To be honest, I never got any of those feelings. However, I do remember this one incident that happened when I went into class. Usually, you sit next to a different person every day. It's not like everyone's like buddy-buddies. So sit down and the dude next to me, straight off the bat, when Brian came in was like, Oh, doesn't he give you weird vibes? And I was like, Oh. And that's one comment that since now, I'm like, Oh, my gosh. How did I get... He said something about his eyes. It was in the eyes. And now that I'm looking at him, I'm like, Yeah, I guess that makes sense. But me personally, no.

So in the days leading up, so I would imagine it's just business as usual, right? Thanksgiving break is on the horizon. You guys are taking finals, probably, or at least preparing for finals. Does anything seem out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the murders in terms of your experience with Brian?

I would say that before we even heard. So there was a time period of right when finals were happening and right after. And it was straight A's, a lot of really good grades and good comments from Brian himself. But before that, it was not so good. Very harsh grading, very not great. And I talked to so many of my classmates, and they're like, Did you notice your grades going up? And he would go in detail on my work and all my other classmates work about how good it was. But you can tell the difference from before that it was like, no, you need to fix this, your grammar, all that little nitty-picky stuff.

Cassie's experience with Kauberger is not unique. It's been reported that former students have said he, quote, seemed preoccupied after the slayings and became an easier grader. But Kauberger's change in affect wasn't the only notable thing. Here's more from Cassie.

We also got a lot of complaints. I personally didn't see a problem in it, but a lot of the female writers and all that because we do a lot of case studies and we'd have to make reports on them. A lot of people just thought he was very sexist as a TA, especially in one-on-ones. Apparently, he showed just a lot of anger towards them in a way, which I never experienced that. So I don't know if that's That was what I got from my other classmates.

I had heard reports of that as well. There was a lot written about the fact that he did these posts to prisoners behind bars or people who have committed crimes. He almost did this poll to see what their personality traits were like or when they knew it was time to kill. It seemed as though he was profiling murderers to better understand how their brain worked. Have you heard anything about that?

Yeah, that and the survey he was connecting.

Yeah. What was the survey about?

I don't remember a survey. A lot of people said he he posted the survey in class. I don't remember taking the survey. Maybe I just didn't take it, but I don't know. I just remember hearing that it was how we would go in detail on killing someone. If we were the murderer, how would we go through? And it had all these different Google Doc answers. I don't know. Never saw it.

Kt Studios has breached out to Washington State University numerous times for a statement, but have not heard back. Because of that, we can't confirm what exact correspondence the university shared with its students regarding the murders or any advisories they may have distributed.

And then the day this hideous day happens. Tell me about that day.

Honestly, it was just another day because when we all heard about it, we were very heartbroken, but we didn't hear from the school or anything. We just heard from news. We didn't even know. It didn't even click that it was in Idaho at U of I until maybe the next week is when it really hit me and my roommate and anyone close to me, really. It just didn't register. And then when everything started catching up over break and stuff is when it really just hit me and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is pretty close. And then when I really started to realize is when I would get calls from out-of-state family and they'd be like, You got to get home. It's almost break. Why aren't you early and all that stuff. And my mom and my dad, my siblings, just constant calls about, Get my ass home because it's getting a little scary, especially when they hadn't caught him and all that.

During that time, there was a national manhunt. It must be a very scary feeling to know that there is a killer at large, frankly targeting beautiful girls like yourself in the same exact age group.

It was pretty scary because everyone at WSU was wondering, what are we supposed to do? Because U of I had already set a curfew and they took precautions, and they didn't close class for a couple of days or something like that. They took their precautions. But WSU was like, no. They sent out an email. They were like, this has nothing to do with us. They were like, we send our love to the families. They'd expressed that pretty well. But they were also like, this isn't our business. We will continue class. We will not have a curfew. And then to think that it was under their own roof is like, are you kidding? And for the people like myself and a couple of other 100 kids who stayed when everyone else left, when they found out there was a murder on the loose. That's terrifying. He was probably on campus doing his thing until he left for his break. And the fact that he was in class and still replying to our Canvas notifications. I remember looking at all the emails that he sent me after it all happened, and a couple of weeks later, they were just gone.

And I was like, Oh, my God.

What does that mean, they were gone? Like, they got removed?

Yeah. So any Canvas notifications I had from him, any... Because I literally remember looking through all of them, and I was just observing all them and seeing if I noticed anything. And I had all of his little edits and stuff, and then I went back one day to look at them, and Canvas had removed all them. It was just very in detail good notes about my work after everything happened. It wasn't short and sweet.

So this man, potentially, murdered four people, and then he went back to class, and then he still continued to grade papers and maybe did it in a lighter, happier way? Yes.

Yeah.

So what do you make of that? Does that mean- I think he was definitely trying to, if it wasn't, it could possibly not be him.

But I think if it was, he was trying to cover it up in a way, obviously. And that's the first thing you do after it all goes down. You to want to act like nothing happened, maybe even make yourself seem a little bit better, maybe a more better guy than some of your classmates might describe you. You don't want to hear about how you might be a sexist, so when you just kill three girls. You want to say you're completely opposite of that. There were so many things that he did that just didn't make sense. If you were getting your PhD in criminology or criminal justice or whatever, why would you go the route of revisiting the place so many times and not checking your phone ping? That's one of the first things we learned in class, everything, how you get caught. And so he already had this down, so it doesn't really make sense why he would do so many things to jeopardize people catching out.

We were just reviewing this yesterday. So it sounds like he was pings just to bring anybody up to speed. So his cell phone pings about 15 times in and around the area leading up to the murders, and then after. But I can't agree with you more. It doesn't totally add up. That's so interesting to me that you really did study that.

Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in a moment.

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone. It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck, and vanished.

Nobody hears anything.

Nobody sees anything.

Did they run away? Was it an accident?

Or were they murdered? A truck and two people just don't disappear.

The FBI called it murder for hire.

It was definitely murder for hire for Danielle, not for Richard. He's your son, and in your eyes, he's innocent. But in my eyes, he's just some guy sister was with.

In this series, I dig into my own investigation to find answers for the families and get justice for Richard and Danielle.

All that they know.

Listen to There and Gone, South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We all know what that music means. Is somebody getting coronated? No. It's time for the Olympics in Paris.

The opening ceremony for the 2024 Paris Games is coming on July 26.

Who are these athletes? When are the games they're playing? You may be looking for the sports experts to answer those questions, but we're not that.

Well, what are we? We're two guys. I'm Matt Rogers.

And I'm Bowen Yang.

And we're doing an Olympics podcast? Yeah. Yeah. We're hosting the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast.

You get the Two Guys, us to start every podcast, then the Five Rings come after.

Watch every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympics beginning July 26th on NBC and Peacock. And for the first time, you can stream the 2024 Paris Games on the iHeartRadio app. And listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States, awarded for gallantry and bravery in combat at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty. Since it was established in 1861, there had been 3,517 people awarded with the medal. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and our new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia is about those heroes, what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice.

Without him and the leadership that he exhibited in bringing those boats in and assembling them to begin with and bringing them in, it saved a hell of a lot of lives, including my own.

Listen to Medal of Honor: Stories of Courage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Tell me everything you can remember about the days after.

The days after, physically, it was his eyes for me. They were very sunken and very black. It was like he hadn't slept in days, maybe weeks. That's just what the appearance looked like. But I was never going to judge. I was like, Okay, long night. We have finals coming up. It's okay. But yeah, that's one of the main things. And I guess a lot of unshaveness and a little messier. And then right after, you can tell the difference.

Can you describe what it was like to find out that Brian Kouberger, your teacher's assistant, had been arrested and accused of the murders?

Yeah. So I was in my dorm, in the Olympia dorm at WSU, with my roommate. And I remember we were looking in a case because it came out. She's like, I'm going to look at it. I was like, Okay, yeah, just tell me. I was cleaning or whatever. And she was like, Holy shit, Cassie. It says criminology. And I was like, No way. And she was like, You have to go on campus right now. I was like, Why are you freaking out? She wouldn't really tell me at first. And then she was like, Who's your TA? So I told her. And then she was like, There's no way you're not going to believe this. And so we both started freaking me out. And yeah, that was the moment. And then she was like, I need to get the hell out of here. So she dipped a little early for Thanksgiving break. I still just saved that extra week. I was just sitting with that information. I remember not wanting to go out because even before, I remember my roommate not letting me go out. She like, anytime I'd be like, Hey, there's a party going on.

No, you're staying. You know there's a murderer out there? Very hard lecture about not going out, and none of that. But it was just crazy.

When he went to class, was he participating in any of the conversations about the murders?

No, but we did discuss it in class. We did have I don't know if it was from the school of the class, but a lot of notifications I got from Canvas discussing the murders. Just like, Hey, everyone needs to stay focused, but this is a very troubled time. Whatever. Just giving a reminder to all the classmates, stay focused. But we did talk about the case, and we even went in details of everything that went down. I remember a lot of people asking questions about it, raising their hands and stuff, and there was a lot. So going around the room, and our professor was just there answering the questions. I don't remember seeing Brian in class when we did talk about it. I remember hearing that he was, but I didn't really go to class after everything happened. It took me on a It hit me a little bit where I was like, this is getting a little too real. So I stepped back from criminology and all that.

You changed your major, huh? So criminology is not your thing anymore?

I will always have a special place in my heart for criminology, but I don't think it's my time. Or when everything happened, it just got so real. And I was like, this might not be for me because I don't know. I was just thinking too psychologically into it. And so I changed my major to my minor, which was psychology, hoping that leads to a better future with that.

It's very traumatic. And I'm super sorry that you had to even experience anything so close to something so discussed listening. Did you have any knowledge or did you know any of the victims?

No, I did not. I didn't know a lot of people from U of I. I knew a couple of people who had friends, like a friend of a friend. And so even then, it affected them in such a way. I could only imagine. And we did have a couple of memorial stuff, a candle-lit thing and a little other one to show our goodbyes and place flowers and pictures of them and stuff at the U of I statue, the plaque that they have. So yeah.

I've seen that. Yeah, it's pretty moving. Even as I talk to you, I feel for your mom and dad because I would want you out of there. It seems dangerous. There's a part of us that all think, Oh, my God, it could be you, right? He could have been staring at you as a teacher's assistant and targeted you. What do you make of it? So now, over a year now, behind you, what is your take on it? Is it possible? Does it track for you? Is it impossible that he could have pulled this off?

There is a very, very clear possibility that he could have done this. And when you bring up alibi, that's very It just almost makes sense to cover up the missing pieces. If only there was an alibi, it would all make sense, but there isn't, at least from what we all know. So it's all still so confusing to say if he did it or if he didn't, but there are just so many things that he did after, the cell phone pang and all that, that just wouldn't make sense if he didn't do it. I don't know. I'm leaning towards did it, but I also hold a lot of sympathy I'm a very empathetic person. So not to say what he did wasn't fucked up, but if he didn't do it, I'm still holding that. And there was just so much that went into it. It was all just so much. I hope one day it just all gets figured out and can finally close the case.

And the school now, is everything settled down? Do people still talk about it? Is it not a big topic of conversation anymore?

Yeah, when this hit, it was huge. The biggest thing that happened. But last year at WCU was a very crazy year. It was a very sad year for Polman. And then this hit, and it was like a whole Polman's name. Was changed to this is where it happened. And so it was just traumatizing for the entire school. And even myself and a lot of people I knew, I even met people at the Vancouver campus because I'm at the Vancouver campus now who moved because the situation. And I talk to so many people at my campus now who just were in my class sitting there in front of me now who I never met, explaining to me how hard it was for them to where they had to move because they couldn't even be in the same tiny little town anymore. It didn't feel the same, which is just so sad to hear about. And yeah, it's just a very sad year for WSU Paulman.

One last thing. I just got covered in chills. You bring up such a big point that I think we should probably dive deeper in. He was only there for a year. And the victims have this iconically fun-looking life? Is it possible that he was just this outsider wishing to have it or became obsessed with one of them and just lost his mind one night? Or was this just a perfect storm that was brewing and they just the unfortunate targets, and it could have been anyone. It's so hard to know.

They both could be such possible answers. Crazy to think about. Yeah, the party life at both schools were both pretty big. If you weren't in the party life, I can definitely see more of an outsider standpoint. But then again, everyone was so accepting. If you would just walk up to any house, you'd be in a party. No one would kick you or anything, unless you're being weird, which could be the case. But, very accepting schools, both of them. Very kind hearts. Everyone had a smile on their face. And even when tough times like this, even, we still would have smiles on our faces. We'd take a break from schools and as a community, not even the school policy. We would all come together and be like, We're going to go to a memorial instead, or We're going to hold this event for them. So yeah, it was a very good community to have while everything else was falling down around us.

Just in closing, is there anything that we don't have right, that just based on your experience, just in general, that people just have wrong?

Before the situation happened, they make him seem to be this creep who didn't have anything for him going, but he was almost done with his life. He was at his goal. He had so much of a future ahead of him. And to say that he didn't is just straight out lies. It's not that he was a weird outsider dude that didn't have anything going for him. He was there, and gosh, I can't even imagine. That's all we wish for, to get to that goal, where he was. And he just threw it all away, which is so sad. But either way, it's a very unfortunate trail of events that happened.

More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt_studios. The Idaho Massaker is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Thouard, music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker is a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

We all know what that music means.

It's time for the Olympics in Paris.

I'm I'm Matt Rogers.

And I'm Bowen Yang.

And we're doing an Olympics podcast? Yeah. We're hosting the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast. Watch every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympics beginning July 26th on NBC and Peacock. And for the first time, you can stream the 2024 Paris Games on the iHeartRadio app. And listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration in the United States. Since it was established in 1861, there have been 3,517 people awarded with the medal. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and our new podcast from Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia is about those heroes, what they did, what it meant, and what their stories tell us about the nature of courage and sacrifice. Listen to Medal of Honor: Stories of Courage on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.