What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the League. Vin Sam is your way in Supreme. Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, what's that Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Gary Vieter, and I have a new limited series podcast, Number One Dad. Over this 10-part series, I'll go searching for the truth about my father, a conman who I haven't spoken to in 24 years.

He wants me to act like my injury is even worse for a payout. He's posing as my attorney in a court. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A new season of Bridgerton is here. And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast. I'm your host, Gabby Collins. And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton. Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix. Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday. From LinkedIn News, I'm Jessi Hempel, host of the Hello Monday podcast. In my 20s, I knew what career success looked like. In midlife, it's not that simple. Work is changing, we are changing, and there's no guidebook for how to make sense of it. Start your week with the Hello Monday podcast. Listen to Hello Monday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In this Idaho murder case, the decision was made right or wrong to demolish that house.

Do you have an opinion on that? I can see no viable, tangible reason for that home to be destroyed before the trial is complete. Is there an immediacy for a jury going to a house, psychologically speaking? I would say yes. This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. Season 2, episode 2, murder house. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Gabe Castillo. We were reminded last episode of the details of the grotesque horror that occurred at 1122 King Road on November 13th, 2022, when Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Ethan Shapin, and Xana Cernotal lost their lives. After the murders, it was seen by some as a forensic scene, or a tomb, or a macabre reminder of the horrors that happened there. But before all that, the house, located just off campus and on fraternity row, was full of life. It was a party house where friends gathered. Here's on-air reporter, Angenette Levy, who has covered the case on the ground since the very beginning. I asked her to describe the house and what it felt like standing in front of it. This house makes me sad, and it made me sad because it was frozen in time.

I'm standing there looking at this window, and there's a pair of pink cowboy boots in the window. When I was there in December of 2022 and then returned in early January after the arrest, what made me so sad is there was this string of lights across the back porch, and they were on. They were on. There was a couch out there, this leather couch. As a mom, I'm like, What are you doing with couch outside? But they're college kids. It's a college house. This is a place where it was a party house, but it was frozen in time in the worst possible way. The lights were on the entire time from the night this happened until I got back in January, and there's the couch covered in snow, and you could see into the kitchen. Everything stopped because this awful thing happened at this house that should have just been full of kids and laughter. If they were going to not be there, it should have been because they were going home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Everything was shattered. That was my impression of it. I have mixed feelings about the demolition of the house.

I understand that Ethan Chapin's family supported the demolition of the house because it had become this horrible macabre tourist attraction, which I think is horrific. But at the same time, I would hate for something to come up at the trial where it was needed. I see what both sides of the coin. As Anginette says, there are two sides to this coin, and most people fall strongly on one side or the other. The family of the only male victim, 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, saying in a statement, We're supportive of the decision to take down the King Street house for the good of the University, its students, including our own kids, and the community of Moscow. The house was considered the largest piece of evidence that they had. The University defending their decision to move forward. Our understanding is from a legal standpoint, everyone was finished with the house. You want to scream from the mountaintops, just let it be. Leave it alone. Don't touch it until the trial is over. The house was ultimately demolished on December 28, 2023. It took one day and occurred 13 months after the murders. Shortly after the demolition, Stephanie has a discussion with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan and data analyst, Bodymoven.

You may remember her from Netflix's 'Don't Have with cats. That particular house that they were murdered in was very specific. It was a unique layout, but the house itself was owned by the campus and highly debated turn of events. They decided to destroy the house, to get rid of it altogether over winter break. It's been a really heated discussion. On the one hand, you know that for the university, it's a bit of a real heartbreak on the town, on the school. Also for students who went there who were maybe triggered emotionally by this heinous crime that happened while they were attending school, just generally speaking, probably just feels hideous to have this marker exist. And on the flip of that, some of the family members, including some people participating in the trial, say that this is an active investigation site and that from a forensic standpoint, it has to stay intact at least until after the trial. I spend a lot of time on the Internet, as you all know. That's what I do. And I talk to a lot of people who live in Moscow, and they are all affected by this house. They have to drive by it.

It's in a really dense neighborhood. The jury is never going to be allowed to go in there. They're never going to be allowed to go in there. The acoustics are different. Flooring has been removed. Walls have been removed. I have photos, and you can see all the drywall that's been cut out of Maddie's room. They're not going to go in there. The It's just not going to happen. It's so uncommon for a jury to visit a crime scene. So uncommon. But it happens, though. By the way, sidebar, one of the victims has a sister and a brother who do also still attend the university. So if I'm a family member of one of the victims, I want justice, or if I'm even a family member of the accused, and I want justice, how can we destroy the forensics? Here's my real problem with it, is the fact that there are homicides take place every single day. There's a homicide going on right now as we speak somewhere in America. I can promise you that they're not going to go out and tear down that structure. This is an outlier as far as tearing down a structure.

It is incredibly rare for a jury to visit the site of a murder. It's also rare for a building where a murder took place to be demolished. However, the ones that fall into either category are usually multi-victim murders that are exceptionally heinous and highly publicized. Some cases where the juries did go back to the literal scene of the crime can often include cases where they may hinge on some form of integral spatial logistics. For example, Michael Peterson, where jurors walk the stairs where his wife died, Alex Murdaugh, so jurors could appreciate the scale of the large property, and the 2018 Parkland school shooting, which Joseph tells us about. I even reflect back to Parkland, which I covered extensively. And look, I understand that the interior of Parkland was not changed at all. One of the most moving moments is where they talk about how when they led the jurors into that structure. Remember, Parkland had taken place on Valentine's Day. There were dried, crumbling roses laying on the floor, Teddy bears with hearts on them. There were still blood stains on the floor. It, too, is government controlled. And let's face it, the University of Idaho is a government entity, and it is owned by the University of Idaho.

Of all the divisive factors in this divisive case, it seems the home's demolition drew more opposing opinions than almost anything else. Here's journalist Chris Spargo, who spent a lot of time covering the case. I started by asking him about the money spent on security of the home leading up to the demolition. It was $700 a day for securing the home alone, clocking in at $1.2 million months before the home was even torn down. Here's Chris. The brunt of that is really being absorbed by the university. The university is really cost a lot of money for them because of security reasons. Obviously, when the house was up for so long and that house had to be protected that entire time, people had a 24/7 watch. Dealing with this influx of people on campus, safety measures for students, there's not really much you can do to get around those costs. Because it took place in a university, there's a lot of costs that come along with that because they want to make sure the students feel safe, they want to make sure the students feel protected, and they also want to make sure that this major piece of evidence, this house, is left untouched.

When there are thousands of people descending on this town who probably want to do nothing more than to get inside it or take a look around. They have to make sure no one went in that house. That was a really, really big cost to bear. What are your thoughts on the demolition of the house? I do not think that the defense or prosecution would be okay with it. They thought there was any possible chance there was even a little piece of evidence inside there. I think on the most human and basic level, the last thing in the world you want those kids to deal with, which we're already dealing with so much, is to have to see that house. It's probably a horrible reminder. For that reason, I'm really glad that it's not there. I don't know how much the scene was going to be helpful in that case. At this point, it seems like they're in trouble even placing them at the scene, so I don't know what was going to be accomplished maybe by having anyone visit the house. But like I said, I think that if there was any bit of evidence that prosecutors thought they could get out of it or bringing people to the house, they would have kept it up.

Clearly, they didn't think there was that The FBI, prosecution, and defense teams had access to the home on multiple occasions. The prosecutor's last visit was just one week before the demolition. The President of Idaho University, Scott Green, released a statement on December 14th, 2023. He wrote, It is the grim reminder of the heinous act that took place there. While we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and allow the collective healing of our community to continue. Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. What's up? I'm Vince Carter. In my podcast, The VC Show is coming back. Four on one. Oh, a call by Carter. Well, that's what they came to see. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Oh, nice move by Carter. What? Yes, indeed. I have a lot to talk about, and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show, you will get to know me, my life, and the things I care about, my family, friends, golf, music, and much more.

Vin Sam, D-Rane Supreme. Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Oh, it's the- It's over. It's over, ladies and gentlemen. It's The VC Show. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Gary Vieter, and I have a new limited series podcast called Number One Dad. It may have been the greatest scam for a sports fan. In the '90s, my dad and I ran a con for years where we snuck into the world's most prestigious arena, New York's Madison Square Garden. And I interviewed some of the biggest athletes in the world, even Michael Jordan. But this wasn't the only scheme my dad was pulling.

He's posing as my attorney in a court. Everything my dad did was a scam. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. My father's never-ending string of lies ultimately broke apart my family. And at 15 years old, I completely cut him out of my life. That was 24 years ago. I have no idea where he lives or what he's up to, but my goal is to track him down and get to the truth about who my father, Manny Beater, really is. Brooklyn Federal Courthouse. My father was involved in a case in the early '90s, and I'm just trying to get information. You better hope that your dad doesn't find out about this before you're ready to talk to him. I'm sorry. You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service. Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. A new season of Bridgerton is here. And with it, a new season of Bridgerton the official podcast. I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins, and this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton. Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.

Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor? Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen. We're discussing it all. I sit down with Nicola Cochland, Luke Newton, Shonda Rimes, and more to offer an exclusive peak behind the scenes of each episode of the new season. Watch season three of the Shandalan series on Netflix. Then, fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday. Get emotional with me, Radhi Deblukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry. We're going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone. We're going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life. We're going to be talking with some of my best friends. I didn't know we were going to go there on this. I'm here, don't I'm not going to miss you. People that I admire. When we say, Listen to your body, really tune in to what's going on.

Authors of books that have changed my life. Now you're talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right? Basically, I have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life. I already believe in myself. I already see myself. And so when people give me an opportunity, I'm just like, Oh, great. You see me, too. We'll laugh together, we'll cry together, and find a way through all of our emotions. Never forget, it's okay to cry as long as you make it a really good Listen to a really good cry with Radhi DiVlucia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stephanie continues her conversation with forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan and data analyst, Bodymoven. Once it's gone, it's gone. The most intriguing images that I saw of the entire coverage relative to Idaho was there was a snap moment where you had agents that were back in the brush line, rear of the second floor where the sliders are, and they were squatted in the brush, and they were looking back towards the building. They were looking for fields of view at that point in time. What could you observe from this low-growth scrub that was back there, these trees?

Is it a location where the perpetrator could have parked? Is it an observation point where they could have seen people moving around at night? Is it at that key moment that he decided that when those lights went down, that he was going to make us move and make entry into that environment. All reference for that is gone now. Not to mention, a big piece of the defense's case right now is that Brian Koubiger claims to have an alibi. Again, we're talking about potentially more than one person being there, or a different set of people being there. Were there multiple attackers? Was Brian not even there in the first place? Why would you destroy something? And I've learned this from you, by the way, The plumbing could have evidence in it. The concrete in and around the location could have evidence in it. Let me say something about the plumbing real quick, and this brings the car into play. They think they've got a timeline settled here, but let's just say that an individual may have taken time to have gone and cleaned themselves. Did you take drain traps out? Did they run a camera down in the drain?

I think my big thing is, and anybody that's listening to us, our friends out there, if you live in a home that has an internal staircase, what do footfalls sound like on the treads on the interior staircase? Can you hear that? Can you hear somebody wrestling about? If you're on the second floor and it's going on on the third floor, can you hear it if you're in the basement, we don't have a point of reference anymore. Still can't take the jury back out there. You can't have them go into any one of these rooms where these gastly murders were committed and ask questions. Jury can't ask a question based upon, Well, gee, look at that window and how you see in from there to here. How far away is the distance from the entrance to the bedroom, to the fly stairs, down to the second floor? How long would it take me to egress from the third floor to the second floor landing, and then down the hallway? You think about the feeling it conjures. We saw that in Pike County. Stephanie is referencing the murders of eight members of the Rodan family that occurred in Puykeden, Ohio.

It's the topic of another KT Studio's podcast and a case we worked closely on with Joseph. After the massacres occurred there and right before the trial, the jury was put on a bus and set- Yes, they were. Out to observe the landscape where the homes where those murders happened had occurred. We were always told it was extremely powerful. There's nothing like being in the location, especially when it's still furnished and those personal belongings that have now been removed for sentimental reasons. They should remain in that crime scene to really make it personal. That's part of it. This is the most personal thing imaginable. Why would you make a game day decision a year before the game by destroying what could potentially be relevant? Doesn't this speak to the original point that the house should not have been destroyed? This is just my opinion, but these scans are so advanced and so well done. The house is unsafe for people to be in. I don't know what situation the rooms are in, but I can't imagine they didn't remove pieces of the floor from both bedrooms. It's not safe for this jury to be in. Well, that's what the documents say.

The documents say the house is too dangerous. Both the defense and the prosecution agreed that this is not a place that they're going to be bringing the jury. I do hope that it was sufficiently documented. I know that they did do Faro images within that structure and also externally. We asked Joseph for clarification on what Fariot images are and how the Fariot system works. You first see the earlier iterations of these things when they're referred to as total stations. They were made famous by accident reconstructionist, where you have this one machine that they could essentially plot in it from a digital standpoint, a motor vehicle accident. Because to work a motor vehicle scene is, to say the very least, time consuming, and the calculations are mind-blowing. They took that platform and expanded it relative to this Faro device, F-A-R-O. But you can take this Faro device and place it at a scene. Just imagine it's got the ability to spin on its axis thousands of different directions, and all of the while it's shooting out these little lasers and it's taking thousands of photos. It can digitally take those images and compile them. It gives you very detailed information.

It also has GPS that's in it. You take it into a confined space like a built dwelling like this. The detail is very remarkable, and you can create this 3D world. It is quite fascinating to see. That's what a FRO station is, essentially. There's been some talk of some 3D model that may be created by the FBI lab in Quantico and be presented for the court. But I got to tell you, I've been out on a number of visits to homes where homicides have taken place, and I've been there when the juries are there. And it is the real dose of reality for them when they show up. From an investigative standpoint, if you have it, don't throw it away. I'm not a junk collector, personally, but this ain't junk. This is where these lives ended. And just to piggyback on that, some of the other victims' families were very against it for this very reason. What if there is one little morsel of something that could bring justice to them, or frankly, get a guilty man off? There's other cases where they've torn the apartment down, for instance, Jeffrey Daumer. However, they waited for the trial.

Yeah, that's the rub. You know? So, yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah, I mean, John Wayne Gacy's house is gone. You know, there's nothing. But Farrow didn't really exist like it does now, back then. That's true. It's a different time. I would imagine at some point, it's going to be virtual reality, where these juries can put on a headset and walk through the house at their leisure. They can. But you had mentioned earlier about the acoustics might not be the same. However, people that are empaneled on juries, they're not AI. I mean, they are living, breathing human human beings that know what it's like to walk into a house in that sense that you get, that auditory sense of a footfall. I know that part of the floor has been removed and all this, but when you think about just the timing element, if I were asked, how long would it How long would it take me to make it from the sliders to that weird... If we just go on a limb here and say you enter through the sliders, how long would it take to make it from there to the interior staircase and twist and turn and get up there?

And also in the darkness. I think about all these in the relationship, spatial relationships and all these sorts of things. And I know Farouh is great, and it's going to be fantastic. I'm sure the presentation will blow everybody away if we're permitted to see it, but there's still that one little splinter in my brain. The feeling. I often equate it to, I like to read books, the actual book. I don't want to read it on a Kindle. I like to touch the paper, I like to turn the page. So it's maybe the same thing where you're there in person and you can smell and use all your senses to get an idea of what happened. And you're not going to be able to have that with a 3D scan. The draw to the house after the murders is one of the reasons it was demolished. People were coming from far and wide to view the house, some with the horrible intention of taking a souvenir from the scene. We felt it was something important to try and understand, so we reached out to psychiatrist Dr. Dr. Gail Saltz, Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at New York Presbyterian Hospital, and host of the podcast, How Can I Help?

Dr. Saltz had been quoted in an article we found about our culture's obsession with murderhouses. Here's Dr. Salts with some information about the phenomenon, followed by Stephanie. The house is like the museum of it. It's easier to imagine being part of it or in it or thinking about it, the horror of it, much like if you said, Here are the clothes of the people, or, Here is the weapon that was used, and you can physically look at it and hold it. And of course, homes represent all kinds of things. Homes represent the place where these people lived and had lives. And most people's homes means feeling safe and feeling joy of whatever it might be, their family, their friends, I mean, in this case, right? Their friends, being in college, feeling invincible at that age. And of course, most people are not thinking about, you could be a victim in your home. It's like, how do we prevent these kinds of things from happening, or how do we maintain our own sense of safety when sometimes the perpetrator is so ordinary? Many people have a desire to feel a little scared in a safe way, and we are naturally curious.

The identification is partially with a victim of how horrible the horror of that is, right? To feel like at that last moment, somebody stabbing me with an eye, like those kinds of thoughts and imagining what's inside that guy's head that he would plot this and plan this and want to do something terrible. In this Idaho murder case. Interestingly, the decision was made, right or wrong, to demolish that house. Do you have an opinion on that? I mean, there are rules and regulations about what can happen with evidence that it can't be brought into a courtroom, and that seems like more of a legal question. To get that legal opinion, I spoke with Kirk Nervy, legal analyst and former defense attorney for Jody Arias. Jody Arias was on trial in 2013 for murder her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander. The trial was televised worldwide and became known as a circus in the press. Here's Kirk. I can see no viable, tangible reason for that home to be destroyed before the trial is complete. The jury may have questions. Part of the evidence against Mr. Kullberger is this eyewitness testimony of seeing someone with bushy eyebrows. There's been talk of hearing footsteps from upper levels, things of that nature.

And those could be issues and questions that the jury has in their mind. How could someone see these eyebrows under these circumstances? Could they really hear this? All these different things. And there could be dozens more that I have not thought of. And here you have this piece of evidence, and it is destroyed for no logical reason. Let's say something came up with the defense case, and the defense said, Hey, we need to look at this. And that becomes a Sixth Amendment issue. Is Mr. Kohlberger getting a fair trial based on these circumstances, and that could result in a death verdict getting overturned. But right now, until the case is over, it seems nonsensical, to say the least, to destroy the building. Well, that's a concrete answer. But it seems like the people who might have most wanted it taken down might then impact the victims negatively if, for example, a sentence is overturned because of it. Yes, we don't know what could pop up, what could be of evidentiary value down the line when things are challenged, when things are questioned. So, yeah, to me, it just makes no sense, at least as it relates to the case in general, and could only serve to harm the case.

Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in a moment. What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Four on one. Oh, a call by Carter. Well, that's what they came to see. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Oh, nice move by Carter. What? Yes, indeed. I have a lot to talk about, and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show, you will get to know me, my life, and the things I care about, my family, friends, golf, music, and much more. Vin Sam, you're in Supreme. Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Oh, it's. It's over. It's over, ladies and gentlemen. It's The VC Show. Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power.

Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Gary Vieter, and I have a new limited series podcast called Number One Dad. It may have been the greatest scam for a sports fan. In the '90s, my dad and I ran a con for years where we snuck into the world's most prestigious arena, New York's Madison Square Garden. And I interviewed some of the biggest athletes in the world, even Michael Jordan. But this wasn't the only scheme my dad was pulling. He's posing as my attorney in a court. Everything my dad did was a scam. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. My father's never-ending string of lies ultimately broke apart my family. And at 15 years old, I completely cut him out of my life. That was 24 years ago. I have no idea where he lives or what he's up to, but my goal is to track him down and get to the truth about who my father, Manny Beater, really is.

Brooklyn Federal Courthouse. My father was involved in a case in the early '90s, and I'm just trying to get information. You better hope that your dad doesn't find out about this before you're ready to talk to him. I'm sorry. You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service. Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. A new season of Bridgerton is here. And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast. I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins, and this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton. Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad. Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible Bachelor. Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen. We're discussing it all. I sit down with Nicola Copeland, Luke Newton, Shonda Rimes, and more to offer an exclusive peak behind the scenes of each episode of the new season. Watch season three of the Shondalan series on Netflix. Then, fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday. Hey, everyone. I'm Mark. I'm Greg. I'm Brenda. And this is a trailer for a new podcast called Get It to Dutch: A Screenwriters Journey. It's about screenwriting. And a journey, the three of us play Aspiring Screenwriters on a quest to get a hit Hollywood script to famous producer Dutch Huxley. I would say one of us is aspiring and the other two are struggling. Which one of us is aspiring? Well, they're going to have to listen to the podcast. But I don't know, and I made the podcast. I made the podcast, and I think you guys were along for the ride. Each week, we bring in a script, we read it, and then we give each other notes. You'll also hear about our adventures navigating the Hollywood system. The show features amazing guests like Tim Robinson, Lily Sullivan, Wierd Al Yankowik, and Rob Hubel. Like any great blockbuster, it's filled with heartbreak, adventure, suspense, and just a little tasteful nudity. And some distasteful nudity. Sorry about that, guys. Listen to Get It to Dutch, A Screenwriter's Journey on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephanie and Joseph Scott Morgan discuss how items from the now demolished house might be used during the trial. One other thing that's very compelling about this case is that they hauled off the mattresses in the back of a pickup truck. They They can still bring these items into court, and that has occurred. They can actually have been in courts where they set beds up before. Here's the real rub with that. If you're talking about dynamic blood stain, you can say, Here's the mattress that we recovered. Here's the bed frame that we recovered. We see this deposition of blood on the surface of the mattress. Maybe they hold up a bloody sheet. If that happens, you're going to hear the defense scream from the rooftops over this because they're going to say it's prejudicial. The prosecution is going to have to justify their rationale for bringing each one of these items in there. And the defense, I guess, could see it as prejudicial. But they could also argue the idea that now that they are absent that, that's something that they can not go back and collect. It's real important that we remember, I think, that they were so eager, they being the investigative authorities, to get this place cleaned out, that they had called a cleaning crew to come and clean up the structure before...

It almost happened simultaneously with the arrest of Kauberger in Pennsylvania. Joseph is referring to when Brian Kauberger's defense attorney, Anne Taylor, filed a court motion to stop the cleanup operation to preserve the scene of the crime. This motion was filed on December 30th, 2022, just hours after Kauberger's arrest. If I remember correctly, it was his counsel that said, Whoa, throw the brakes on. We need to get a team out there to take a look. I'll never forget seeing that image of the plastic that had been taped up over the door so that they could go in and move out and all this stuff. Then there was a controversy of taking out, quote, unquote, personal items. Once you've breached that threshold so quickly in this environment, there There's not a damn bit of sentimental material that is out there that's worth compromising this. Because, yeah, I know that it's gastly. It's a horrible thing, but life is full of all kinds of horrible things. This, I think, is potentially a diminishment of the memory of these kids that were killed there. But now, it's too late at this point. You can't go back and unring the bell.

Stephanie continues her conversation with psychiatrist Dr. Gail Saltz on how a jury might be impacted by the home's demolition. Here's Dr. Saltz. Is there an immediacy for a jury going to a house, psychologically speaking? I would say, stress, that it's going to stir their thoughts in a more emotionally galvanizing way, and that that will draw them in, but it doesn't tell you whether it will draw them in and make them, say, guilty or innocent. Now, where I think it could affect them is if they are convinced that this person is the perpetrator, and they are brought into a circumstance that makes them feel more emotionally destroyed thought, I think that could affect a sentencing, a sentencing like death, no death. And this is why prosecutors bring in photos and movies and voice recordings, because they are trying to not only deliver content, but they are trying to deliver more immediacy, deliver more empathy to a jury, and have them feel more intensely and stronger about what's happening. I think being in a house certainly could add to that. It's not the only thing that could add to that. I think there was a point made that the house didn't look at all inside anymore the way that it looked.

And so that could have the opposite effect, right? They could go in expecting to see something that looks like college students are living there and see none of that, see a sterile space. And that could have the effect of making them feel like what was so bad, what was so terrible. So it's hard to predict Whether that would be helpful or harmful. I hadn't thought of it that way. True, the disassociation from what is now a different space is a really good point. What I would say is virtual is It's always one step removed from being in person. I think courts have discovered that putting things in a video format absolutely makes an impact. Is it eked out by the idea that you're coming out of the courtroom and into this space and know that you're standing on the spot where this thing happened, I think that has a more emotional impact. Is it necessary if you have the video? Might If the video of what the inside looked like at the time that it actually looked that way, which was at the time of the crime, have more impact than the physical plant that doesn't look anymore like it did at the time of the crime, it might.

Next time on the Idaho Masker, an exclusive interview with Cassie, a former student of accused murderer Brian Kaubergers. She is speaking out for the first time. What was the class about? We covered literally how to get away with murder. Did he have any friends? Not that I saw, but kept to himself. Anytime I saw him on campus or in class or office hours. So this man, potentially, murdered four people, and then he went back to class? Yes. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt_studios. The Idaho Masker is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and Sound Design by Jeff Thouard, Music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masker is a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Vince Sat, with your way, I'm Supreme.

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