Hi, all. We're excited to share Season 2, episode 1 of the Idaho Massaker with you, but we're even more excited to tell you that you can actually listen to this episode and every other episode of the Idaho Massaker, the Pygdon Massaker, Death Island, True Crimes with John Indiana, and murder 101, completely ad-free with iHeartTrueCrime+, available exclusively on Apple podcasts. Plus, you'll get instant access to episode 2 as well, a whole week ahead of everyone else, and a never before heard bonus episode that is only available to subscribers. So head to Apple podcast, search for iHeartTrueCrisePlus, and subscribe today.

What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league.

Vin Sam is your way in supreme.

Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, what's that show? It's The VC Show. Hey, what's that show?

I'm Gary Veeeter, and I have a new limited series podcast, Number One Dad. Over this 10-part series, I'll go searching for the truth about my father, a conman who I haven't spoken to in 24 years.

He wants me to act like my injury is even worse for a payout. He's posing as my attorney in a court.

There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence that these four victims suffered.

Detectives have been provided with the results of those autopsies and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep.

In my experience, there is nothing bloodier than sharp force injury, particularly if you have multiple This is the Idaho Massaker, a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio.

Season 2, episode 1, Nightmare in Moscow. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KT Studios with Stephanie Lidecker and Gabe Castillo. It's been one year, six months, four weeks, and one day since the senseless and brutal murders of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalves, Xana Curnotal, and Ethan Chapin. More than a year and a half since the victims had their lives cut short and their family, friends, community members had their lives irrevocably changed. In that time, a suspect has been brought into custody, and pretrial hearings have occurred, shedding light on how the trial may pan out. $3.6 million has been spent to date by the state of Idaho, and an alibi for the accused has been put on the court's record. Here's Stephanie.

This particular case is everyone's worst nightmare. It's like the scariest movie. It checks every terrifying box. Just imagine four incredible young adults at the most optimistic time. They had great friendships, just ahead were finals, and all of their firsts, things like graduation and first jobs, first love. And they did everything by the books. They went out in pairs. They were safe. They were inclusive, and they had many friends in and out of their house. Yet even then, they were slaughtered one by one with a knife. So violent, so seemingly personal. This could have been an attack on any one of us and for the accused on the other side. Brian Kouberger was a criminology PhD student. He was a scholar and also had his whole life ahead. Upwardly mobile and by all accounts, came from a really loving family. And can you imagine what it's like for his family? His father was a maintenance worker who went into debt putting his son through college. His mom worked at a Pennsylvania school assisting special needs students, and he was the baby of their family, the only son. He had two older sisters. One of his sisters went on to be a mental health therapist, who, by the way, lost her job because of her brother's arrest.

And his other sister was an actress. The only thing really notable about that is that she was in a horror film where the plot line is a group of students are stabbed to death by a masked killer. And on the one hand, he says he is innocent. Maybe he's just being targeted, because if that's not the case, then this is the most sinister story ever told.

Last season, a general overview was known of what happened the night of the murders. In the preceding months, a more crystallized timeline of both the victims and the accused whereabouts has emerged. Saturday, November 12th, 2022, was a celebratory day for many students at the University of Idaho. They were just seven days away from break, looking forward to sitting down with family for Thanksgiving. On November 12th at 8:00 PM, Ethan Chapin and Xana Cernotel went to a party at Chapin's fraternity, Sigma Kai. A brunet beauty, 20-year-old Xana was a junior majoring in marketing. Here's her sister, Jasmine, speaking at the Memorial service held on December second, 2022.

Xana, you will not be forgotten.

You have impacted so many lives and have given people so much love.

For her high school graduation, Zanna decorated her mortar board with butterfly and flower cutouts and the words, For the lives that I will change. 20-year-old Ethan Chapin was a freshman majoring in sports management. He was a triplet whose brother and sister also attended the University of Idaho. Here's Ethan Chapin's mother. If everybody was like Ethan Chapin in this world, it would be a better place. Ethan's obituary states, Ethan lived his best life. He loved the social life life intemurals and tolerated the academics. Zana and Ethan were a couple many admired for their deep love of one another. One of Zana's two surviving roommates placed the pair at Ethan's fraternity party between 9:00 PM and 05:45 AM. Saturday, November 12th, 10:00 PM to 1:30 AM. Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves were seen at the corner club bar in downtown Moscow, picked up by security footage. Madison Mogan was a 21-year-old senior from Coeur d'Alaine who was majoring in marketing. Her grandmother said she'd always been a caring person who kept many long-term friendships and close ties with extended family. Here's Madison's boyfriend, Jake. Maddie was my best friend. She was the first person I talked to every morning and the last person I talked to before bed.

Madison was close with 21-year-old Kaylee Gonsalves since the sixth grade. The pair, both beautiful blonde girls, looked more like sisters than friends. 21-year-old Kaylee was a senior majoring in general studies and was in the Alpha Fee sorority. In fact, Kaylee had recently moved out of the house on King Road and only returned to show Maddie the car she'd bought. She planned to use it when she moved to Austin to start her life. Kaylee was just weeks away from graduating. In an Instagram post for Madison's 21st birthday, Kaylee posted pictures of the pair throughout their lives and wrote, I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to be the main character in all my childhood stories. Madison replied, I love you more than life, my best friend forever and more. Here's Kaylee's father. These girls were absolutely beautiful.

They came here together, and in the end, they died together.

In the early morning hours of Sunday, November 13th, the temperature in Moscow, Idaho, hover around 28 degrees. The air was thick with ice fog. At approximately 1:30 AM, Kaylee and Madison were seen at a downtown food truck, the Grub Truck, located less than a quarter mile south of the bar they'd been at earlier, the Corner Club. Here's some audio of the footage captured on a Twitch livestream. It is the last known audio of the two best friends.

Welcome back.

I think I would like the car.

Okay.

But if I had a free Can we grab took on my app? Oh, yeah. So what you want to do is we'll actually do this. Cool. Thank you. Absolutely.

Here is the exact timeline of this night. 145 AM. According to a surviving roommate, Ethan and Xana returned from the fraternity party to Xana's home at 1122 King Road. 156 AM. Just 11 minutes later, Madison and Keely left the food truck using their sorority's designated driving service. By 2:00 AM, everyone was home for the night. 2:42 AM. A cell phone connected to accused murderer Brian Kauberger's home in Palman, Washington, showed him leaving his apartment. At the time of the murders, Kauberger was a 28-year-old PhD criminology candidate at Washington State University. University. He was located approximately 10 minutes from the University of Idaho. Cell phone data showed the accused traveling south for five minutes until 2:47 AM, at which point the phone stopped reporting to the network. The accused was driving a 2015 white Hyundai Elantra. 3:29 AM, a white sedan is seen passing by the victim's residence on King Road. 4:00 AM, Xana Curnotel receives a fast food delivery to the house. 4:04 AM, there is another sighting of a white sedan driving down King Road past the residence. 04:12 AM, Xana is on her phone scrolling through social media. 4:20 AM, a white sedan is seen leaving the area at high speed.

The accused phone appears to be turned back on and pings south of Moscow, Idaho, on State Highway 95. The bodies of three women and one man, all 21 or under, were found together over the weekend.

The autopsy report reveals the victims were stabbed to death.

Here's Stephanie.

So much has been reported about the magnitude of violence that these four victims suffered. Everyone understands that what happened that night was an a parallel tragedy. But here's what we know as a matter of fact, taken from the arrest affidavit, filed on December 29th, 2022.

Some portions of the 18-page statement are redacted, including specific injuries sustained by the victims. It begins when investigators arrived at 11:22 King Road at approximately 4:00 PM on November 13th, 2022. In an effort to understand the intricacies and protocols of scene security and processing of a crime scene, we reached out to forensic expert and host of the podcast Bodybags, Joseph Scott Morgan. I asked Joseph what an officer is looking at or thinking about when they enter a scene for processing. Here's Joseph.

It's hard to avert your eyes when you see evidence of extreme violence. In this case, you would have had copious amount of blood everywhere. As an investigator, you're thinking, as horrible as that is, you have to maintain your vision here to separate the horror of what you're seeing from the practicality. Where should I step? Where should I step? You'd look, obviously, for a weapon or evidence is a forced entry. If you've got sliding glass doors, have they been kicked in? Then I think from a security perspective and also an evidentiary perspective, you check the door, hopefully with a gloved hand. You haven't had a chance to look into hidden places at that point, Tom. And there's the rub legally, because even though there's a homicide, you're still going to need a warrant to go in there and process the scene. Because absent a warrant, anything that you collect in that environment suddenly is invalid. I'll give you a great example. If you've got a foot locker or a chest of some kind, by law, when you go into a residence like this, even though it's their dead bodies, you can't go opening those areas without a warrant.

You have to get a warrant before you can go digging through chest of drawers or looking in what are generally referred to as hidden spaces. If there's a closet with a door on it, for instance, you can, from a safety perspective, the law allows you to open that door and say, Is anybody in here? Flash your light, because that's a reasonable place that you would find a victim, and you're trying to assess it. But you can't go peeling through clothes and pulling out shoe boxes and all that thing. It seems vast, but there is a prescribed methodology for going through one of these scenes. Your job, after you've verified that people are, in fact, dead in that house, is to secure it. No one else is to come in here, period. Forget it until those that show up with a warrant and those that show up with the authority to investigate the scene, arrive, and then you turn it over to them at that point.

The affidavit reads, quote, Upon our arrival, the Idaho State Police forensic team was on scene and was preparing to begin processing the scene. Moscow Police Department Officer Smith, one of the initial responding officers to the incident, advised he would walk me through the scene, end quote. I asked Joseph Scott Morgan why it's important to be escorted through by an initial responding officer?

You only get one first look at any scene, period. The person that would have walked in and have found those bodies initially, they essentially have a roadmap in their brain at that point in time, because trust me, even for the most hardened of police officers, they're going to remember. But from a practical standpoint, when you have another individual that is higher ranking, maybe has more responsibility, it is important that you be walked through. This is what is actually, there's a term for this. This is called the initial walkthrough.

Continuing with the affidavit, Officer Smith directed me down the hallway to the West bedroom on the second floor, which I later learned was Anna Cernotals. Here again, Stephanie.

Xana Cronotle, age 20, was in her sorority and loved her dog named Shushine. She was remembered by her family as always being positive, funny, and was loved by everyone. She and Ethan were in love, and by all accounts, a solid couple.

The affidavit continues, quote, As I approach the room, I could see a body later identified as Khranotal's laying on the floor. Cernotel was deceased with wounds that appear to have been caused by an edged weapon, end quote. I asked Joseph Scott Morgan what we could take away from this statement.

So what we can learn from just that statement alone is that these wounds were so obvious that a person like this that doesn't see them day in and day out, they recognize that these are sharp force injuries. Apparently, they were so glaring that he had no trouble making that assessment. Xana was where? Not in her bed. She was on the floor. You have that question as an investigator, why is this young lady on the floor and not in the bed. That's an important point for investigators to consider, because if you say that she was in her bed, that implies that she was attacked in her bed, killed in her bed, and not moved, even in a postmortem state. Now, you would have to go back to the EMTs, I think, that I initially responded. The question you want to ask the EMT is, Okay, let me get this straight. Now, when you walked into this room, did you see this young woman on the floor, or did you take her from the bed and place her on the floor? Because, for instance, if she's unconscious, they're going to try to take life-saving measures, right? It's not a good idea to do chest compressions on a bed.

Bed gives. You need a solid backing for that. And many times, they will remove people and put them on the floor. Relative to her injuries, she did have an awareness because we hear a lot in forensics about defensive wounds, okay? And sometimes they're mild. You get bruises on the forearms, like in a blocking position, you can get stab wounds on the forearms. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about a blade being drawn through the palm of her hand down to the point where, and it has been stated, this is not me saying it, that her tendons were cut. So that is a robust injury, to say the very least, with a very sharp-edged weapon. So if you can draw a blade across the surface of a hand, you're not just breaking the epidermis or the dermis or the subcu fat. You're going through muscle. You're going through structures at that point in time. It's a deep, deep cut or cuts. And so that assessment is very important to make.

Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment.

What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Four on one. Oh, a play by Carter. Well, that's what they came to see. Season 2 of the VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league.

Oh, nice move by Carter. What? Yes, she did.

I have a lot to talk about, and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show, you will get to know me, my life, and the things I care about, my family, friends, golf, music, and much more.

We Insanity Reign Supreme.

Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Oh, it's getting much- It's over. It's over, ladies and gentlemen. It's the VC Show.

I'm Gary Veeeter, and I have a new limited series podcast called Number One Dad.

It may have been the greatest scam for a sports fan.

In the '90s, my dad and I ran a con for years, where we snuck into the world's most prestigious arena, New York's Madison Square Garden. And I interviewed some of the biggest athletes in the world, even Michael Jordan. But This wasn't the only scheme my dad was pulling.

He's posing as my attorney in a court.

Everything my dad did was a scam. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. My father's never-ending string of lies ultimately broke apart my family. And at 15 years old, I completely cut him out of my life. That was 24 years ago. I have no idea where he lives or what he's up to, but my goal is to track him down and get to the truth about who my father, Manny Beater, really is. Brooklyn Federal Courthouse? My father was involved in a case in the early '90s, and I'm just trying to get information.

You better hope that your dad doesn't find out about this before you're ready to talk to him.

I'm sorry.

You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service.

Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. Imagine this. Your parents sign away your childhood to an academic psychological study that tracks you all the way into your young adult life. And how about this? Your middle school kid stumbles onto something he never should have seen or known, something from your secret life. And what about if your sister is very publicly tried, convicted, and sent to prison, when really, she was just telling her long-buried truth? These tough questions are just a few that we'll be grappling with on our upcoming 10th season of Family Secrets. With over 34 million downloads and nearly 100 unique stories in our feed, we continue to admire and champion our guests, whose empowering stories of resilience never fail to amaze, enlighten, and inspire. Listen to season 10 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Continuing on with the affidavit, Also in the room was a male, later identified as Ethan Chapin. Chapin was also deceased with wounds later determined to be caused by sharp force injuries. Again, Stephanie, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan.

Ethan Chapin was also 20 years old. He was actually the first born of tripletts. His siblings also attend the University of Idaho. His mom said that he was the most incredible person you'll ever know. And according to his obituary, he lived his very best life in college?

First off, we have to begin to think about his remains in relation to Xana's remains, Ethan's remains in relation to... Ethan's a big kid. He's robust. He's an athlete. You can only imagine when faced with an aggressor, he would respond. I think one of the questions we would have to ask is, was he lying in bed asleep? And he awoke as a result of a disturbance, covered the distance from the bed to the door, and there he is met by an assailant. This seems to run contrary to even pressers that I have borne witness to where it is stated in the presser that the victims were asleep.

The presser or press conference Joseph refers to took place on November 21st, 2022, just one week after the multiple homicides. Here's Roger Lehner, Moscow Police Department operations captain. Detectives have been provided with the results of those autopsies and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep during the attack. Some of the victims had defensive wounds. Again, Joseph Scott Morgan.

When you put that out there and you say that the victims were asleep, were they asleep and died in their sleep? Because I don't know, for me, my default position automatically is if you tell me that, that's what I'm thinking. But that doesn't seem to be the case. We've already got evidence that has been clearly stated that Xana was found on the floor. If we can establish that she didn't commonly sleep on the floor, then you know that she had an awareness. Then we think about Ethan lying in the doorway. Well, what does that mean? Does it actually mean that just the top of his head was lying on the threshold? Was he entirely out of the room and lying back into the bedroom? Look, with both of these victims, I have to think that there was very intimate contact. I don't mean that in a sexual way. I mean that this is a tussle. This is a fight. You think about contact trace evidence that is transitioning between the assailant and the victims. In what order did this happen? That's important to ask. It's not just the action of the killing, it's those moments those perimortem moments, which means in the midst of death, that are very compelling to me because you know that there had to be very intimate, up-close and personal contact between the assailant and these victims.

For further clarification, I asked Joseph about the significance of Ethan being reported found, In the room in this report versus other reports we've read placing him in the doorway.

Maybe it is semantics, but semantics aside, when this information is released to the public, it's very confusing because it goes to confusion about the dynamic of the event. Remember, and this is very, very important, There has yet to be a jury selected, and this data is out there. This information is out there, and this is very specific information about the scene. Very specific. You're not just talking about two victims here that died of sharp force injury. No, we've discussed being on the floor. We've discussed specific injuries. That's very detailed information that has now jumped out from inside of that protective investigative bubble. It might be semantics. However, it is important, and this is going to have to be explained, and it will be explained. That question will be asked. All of this is going to be on display in court. I don't know how far it will go, but it's certainly interesting because I was confused used. Because from when I initially heard the presser that the chief gave, he plainly stated, they were attacked while they were asleep. Okay? Don't know what that means, but I got to tell you, it doesn't necessarily marry up with the idea that one victim is lying in the doorway and the other is on the floor adjacent to the bed.

The affidavit continues, The third floor consisted of two bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Gonsalves's. I later learned there was a dog in the room when Moscow police officers initially responded. I asked Joseph if there's a standard protocol at a murder scene when a pet is present.

When you I actually have an animal present at the same time. I've worked cases like this where I remember one case in particular where I had a cat that was supersaturated in blood. As a matter of fact, they had tracks of the blood, and there were bloody jaw prints everywhere. As a result of that, you would want to get that animal secured as quickly as possible. If you have a collar that has what appears to be blood evidence on it, whose blood was it? That can go to a sequence of events. If you find a collar and it's on the third floor of the home, but yet you find blood sample on that collar from individuals that are on the second floor of the home, how did that happen? How was that explained? So, yeah, you should treat that animal as if they are evidence, and they are evidence. So the dog plays a crucial role.

Once again, from the affidavit, Officer Smith then pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogans, here after Morgan's bedroom, which was situated on the southeast corner of the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I could see two females in the single bed in the room, both González and Morgan were deceased with visible stab wounds. Here's Stephanie, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan.

To say that Maddie was loved by all is such an understatement. Maddie was known for her laugh and her offbeat sense of humor. Maddie was a waitress at the Mad Greek restaurant and was using her marketing skills to run a social media campaign for them. She planned to move to Boise after graduating in the spring. Kaylee Gondalvez and Madison Morgan were best friends since they were little girls. Kaylee was the middle child of her family, and she did absolutely everything she set her mind to. According to her family, Kaylee was the ultimate go-getter and constantly was looking for an adventure. She had recently bought a 2016 Range Rover and planned a trip to Europe, and she was expecting to move to Texas after graduation.

Out of all the cases that I've handled over the course of my career, you're talking about trauma, and this includes even shotgun wounds. In my experience, there's nothing bloodier than sharp force injury, particularly if you have multiple. After a period of time, forgive me for saying this, but after a period of time, after someone has been deceased and they bled profusely, the blood will begin to coagulate and crust. It's hard to make sense of anything in low light circumstances, particularly if you're first eyes on. In this case, I think even when compared to Xana and Ethan, these two young women's bodies are contained. They're in a single space. I'm not saying that it would be easy to process those bodies, but given the contained space that they're in, it wouldn't be as taxing, I think, for the investigator. You can also begin to understand the dynamic, I think, a little bit of the event, because if you have blood on the body's of those downstairs that has been transferred from those upstairs, that goes to sequencing. Because essentially, if you're using the same weapon, you got the same person that's perpetrating this. Keep in mind, they're going to be supersaturated with blood.

I will stand by that comment. They're moving about and transferring all of this from person to person. The knife itself acts as almost like a method of inoculation with this blood. You're introducing blood into other victims as you go down the timeline here.

The affidavit continues, I also later notice what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath lying on the bed next to Mogan's right side when viewed from the door. The sheath was later processed and had the United States Marine Corps, Eagle, globe, and Anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. The Idaho lab later located a single source of male DNA, parentheses, suspect profile, left on the button snap of the ninth sheath. Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in a moment.

What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back.

Four on one. Oh, a call by Carter.

Well, that's what they came to see. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league.

Oh, nice move by Carter. What? Yes, indeed.

I have a lot to talk about, and it won't always be basketball. If you listen to the show, you will get to know me, my life, and the things I care about, my family, friends, golf, music, and much more.

Vin Sam, the range, Supreme.

Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Oh, it's not over. It's over. It's over, ladies and gentlemen. It's The I'm Gary Veeeter, and I have a new limited series podcast called Number One Dad.

It may have been the greatest scam for a sports fan.

In the '90s, my dad and I ran a con for years, where we snuck into the world's most prestigious arena, New York's Madison Square Garden. And I interviewed some of the biggest athletes in the world, even Michael Jordan. But this wasn't the only scheme my dad was pulling.

He's posing as my attorney in a court.

Everything my dad did was a scam. There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer. My father's never-ending string of lies ultimately broke apart my family. And at 15 years old, I completely cut him out of my life. That was 24 years ago. I have no idea where he lives or what he's up to, but my goal is to track him down and get to the truth about who my father, Manny Beater, really is. Brooklyn Federal Courthouse? My father was involved in a case in the early '90s, and I'm just trying to get information.

You better hope that your dad doesn't find out about this before you're ready to talk to him.

I'm sorry. You have reached a number that has been disconnected or is no longer in service.

Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

It all started with two federal agents who heard a rumor.

She mentioned, well, there is this alleged murder to have taken place. There was just one problem.

They had no clue who the victim was.

We have to do our job, and we have to find out who did they kill.

It had been 15 years since this alleged murder. Was it still possible to unearth the truth?

I used to watch the Unsolved Mystory shows, and I often thought about calling because I was like, This is not right. How can a person get killed and no one knows anything?

I'm Jake Halpern, and this is Deep Cover, The Nameless Man. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

At this point in our interview, Joseph pulls out the exact same make and model knife and sheet that's alleged to be the murder weapon.

That's it. This is the exact weapon. It's the same one that was used.

Oh, my gosh.

So this thing is really heavy. It's very robust. Very robust. And Courtney, right out of the box, I could have shaved my beard with this thing. It's that sharp right out of the box. And you see this one's got the USMC. That's what they found.

Oh, my gosh.

And this, I think, is where they recover the DNA from. And he may have wiped the whole damn thing down. But the one place that he would not have accounted for is this button snap. And if you drag your thumb across it like that, you're going to put skin cells in here. Because these people in the lab, Courtney, I got to tell you, they're pretty amazing. They consider things that you and I don't consider. This is what we harvested from that area. And if he wipes that damn thing down, let's just say he prepared before he got there. Okay, I've thought about this. He would be walking in with this like this. It almost seems Shakespearean. I've always envisioned him getting on that bed or standing at the end of the bed and maybe bumping the bed to wake them up. And he gets into this frenzy, and he attacks him with a knife, and he's a sadist, and he's inflicting pain. And in this frenzy, he drops the sheath. And I can only imagine he had an oh, shit moment. I to you. When he rolled back to his apartment, he's like, Wait, where is this thing?

I got the knife, but I don't have the sheath. I'm thinking he's got this going on in his mind. And at this point, he's passed a Rubicon.

Our goals for this season are multi-pronged. Here's Stephanie.

We're going to unpack the facts, hopefully to better understand the law, search and seizure issues at play, how the demolition of the crime scene may or may not have impacted things moving forward. We want to contextualize what's been happening for family and friends in the wider community in the wake of such a tragedy. We really want to understand the psychology. What might shape the mind of a killer?

This season on the Idaho Massacre. What can you do with evil?

You can exterminate it. Here, their alibi defense, apparently, is that he likes to drive around and see the moon and the stars. Do I buy it?

No.

We all like to believe in our hearts that if we come across somebody who's violent or dangerous, that we'd get a spidey sense. Did you have that feeling that he was capable or off.

To be honest, I never got any of those feelings.

However, I do remember this one incident that happened. Sociopaths and psychopaths, recently, do not have a feeling when they hurt someone else. If you think about it, it makes them pretty much perfect killing machine. I was just stuck in this cycle of, Oh, my gosh, what's going to happen next? What's going to happen next?

Or could this happen to me? The underlying underlying a psychological phenomenon is that they are doing to themselves what the killer didn't do to them.

Until the case is over, it seems nonsensical, to say the least, to destroy the building. Is there an immediacy for a jury going to a house, psychologically speaking?

I would say yes.

This is a death penalty case because there were four people killed all at once in a really brutal manner.

For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kt_studios. The Idaho Massaker is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Gabriel Castillo, and me, Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Thouard, music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Massker is a production of KT Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ready to hear more? Remember, you can get episode 2 of the Idaho Massacre now, completely ad-free and a whole week early with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get a never before heard subscriber exclusive bonus episode and add free access to all previous seasons of the Idaho Masker, Picton Masker, Death Island, True Crimes with John Indiana, and murder 101 as well. So open your Apple podcast app, search for iHeartTrue Crimes Plus, and subscribe today.

It's The VC Show. What's up? I'm Vince Carter, and my podcast, The VC Show, is coming back. Season 2 of The VC Show is going to be bigger and better than ever. Every week during the NBA season, I'll give you my real insights and opinions on the league. Vince Carter.

Vin Sam, the Rave Supreme.

Subscribe to the pod and listen to The VC Show with me, Vince Carter, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's that show? It's The VC Show.

I'm Gary Veeeter, and I have a new limited series podcast, Number One Dad. Over this 10-part series, I'll go searching for the truth about my father, a conman who I haven't spoken to in 24 years.

He wants me to act like my injury is even worse for a payout. He's posing as my attorney in a court.

There were moments where Manny would assume the role of undercover police officer.

Listen to Number One Dad on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

Everyone in our country has a voice. It's something that says not just where you come from, but who you are. Welcome to NPR's Black Stories, Black Truths, a collection of podcasts and a celebration of the hosts in journalism who've always spoken truth to power. Our voices are as varied, nuanced, and dynamic as the Black experience, and stories should never be about us without us. Find NPR Black Stories, Black Truths on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.