Never share this. I was afraid that people, they think you can't be gay and a Christian. And I am. I am. And I was so fearful that I would be shunned. I have never talked about this before, but I'm gonna talk about it with you.

You almost declined an interview with the president of the United States out of this kind of a fear.

Jamie Kern, Lima. You're coming in hot. You're coming in hot with these questions. People like me are worthy. Are worthy of being married.

Did you worry about that? Sitting in that number one spot in all of America and deciding to share, I'm gay. This is who I am.

I've never said this before. Part of it is because success leaves clues.

Success leaves clues. Wow.

You've done your homework. I have not shared this. How did you. Okay. Wow.

I have a letter from your wife.

But when the most important person in your life sees you and hears you, that is the greatest gift. That is the greatest gift.

How did you make it through so many hard times and emerge victoriously?

Oh, my gosh. You have done your research. Yeah. It is true.

How sexy is it when someone knows their worth, right?

Oh, I know.

She came right out and knew her worth. We are attracted to the level of love that we actually love ourselves.

Never forget saying, mister president. She looks at me and she goes, I'm not crying because you told me you're gay. I'm crying because you love me enough to tell me you're gay. Oh, what a response. Because, oh, gosh, I can't believe some stuff I'm gonna tell you. All right, Jamie, I did an ugly cry. I just broke down live on national television. Crying, crying. Almost couldn't catch my breath. I thought I I was going to be fired on the spot. Make your mess. Your message. Make your mess, your message.

Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie Weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekernlima.com or in the link in the show notes, Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life.

Jamie Kern Lima.

Jamie, you're so inspiring.

Jamie Kern Lima.

She has been saying good Morning America to you and millions of viewers every single morning for nearly two decades. As the co anchor of America's number one morning show, she's in the Women's Basketball hall of Fame. She's conquered both breast cancer and mds. She's a New York Times bestselling author of multiple books, including her most recent book called brighter by the day. And she's a newlywed. She's also my dear friend, misses Robin Roberts. Not miss. Misses Robin Roberts. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show.

It's wonderful to be here. And I'm still getting used to hearing misses. And I love it.

Do you love it? Yeah. I was gonna say, how does it feel?

I love it, Jamie. I do. We have been together 18 years, and we were that couple. Like, we don't need a piece of paper to define who we, we're like, we're truly like dooleyweds. It's been wonderful.

So many people feel that way. Like, we don't need a piece of paper. How has it changed? Like, or has it changed?

Ooh. It is. It's a great question. It's an indescribable inner joy. And it's like you can't, you can't describe the feeling. It's like we were playing house for 18 years.

Wow.

And now it's real. And there's just something about the little things that would kind of annoy me in the past. They don't anymore. I'm surprised by it. And we, you know, we've done counseling and couple counseling, and we still do that. And we had a session after the marriage, after we got married. And I remember talking to Molly, and she's wonderful. And everybody should find that right person for them to help them. And I said there was something that would irritate me that she did. And in the past, I would stay in that state, and now I recognize it and I don't want to be there. And so that's the difference. Yeah.

And so interesting. A lot of times so many of us are raised or we learn, like, you made me feel this or something like that. And then we have this realization, oh, wait, I'm choosing. That's it.

That's it. And that was a real eye opener for me. I said I was choosing not to be in that state and before I was choosing to be in it, and it was a choice. And that's what everything comes down to, a choice. Even choosing joy. I mean, everything is a choice.

I know. With Amber, you guys are together 18 years, right? 18 years. And can you share a little about this is even what I was going to talk about, by the way. But let's just go here for a minute. Let's go here for a minute.

Okay.

Can you. So is it true, uh oh. When you guys were getting set up on a blind date, like, each of you kind of was canceling?

Oh.

And how did that all happen?

Oh, my gosh. You have done your research. Yeah. It is true. It is true. In my defense, the person that was helping set up Bert was my friend, and he didn't have a good track record, let's put it that way, with people he tried to set me up with, so I wasn't really that eager. And Amber, the same thing. And she had no clue who I was. She watched another morning show where she works, so she had no idea.

Oh, okay.

I was not a sports fanatic or anything like that. And it was very innocent that we were both canceling, canceling, canceling. And it got to be about a year of doing that, and both of our friends. A year? A year. And my friend Bert and her friend Alex got together and said, enough. And so we went on a double date. I went with my friend. She went with her friend. We were only going to stay for drinks, and I said to my friend Bert, if I kick you under the table, let's invite them to dinner. And a couple minutes in, I was kicking him under the table. But, yes, we did. And it was just, again, it was, when you look back at things, it's, why do we have this hesitation about the unknown? And so I started looking at uncertainty as meaning there are endless possibilities. And that's how I looked at finally going on the date with Amber. And here we are, married.

Married.

Mary, Mary, Mary, Mary.

Love of your life. You know, so many people are. Are looking for their partner and all of that, and it's to think of, like, passing ships, missing each other for a year, then you meet, and then 18 years later, married.

Yeah. What is that country music song? Thankful for the crooked road that led me straight to you.

Oh, yeah.

And it's true. It was a crooked road.

But let me write to her when I think crooked road to you. So many of us have past relationships, things we've gone through and then those things become familiar to us. And I know, I think shortly in a share. Share a little bit about this, because I think a lot of people are going to connect to this, and they may not even realize they're doing it. But when you and Amber were together for a while, can you talk about this? About you actually trying to break up with her?

Oh, my God. Why do you want to go there?

Based on. Well, I'll let you know. So many people have this happen, and they don't realize why they're sabotaging a relationship.

I have never talked about this before, but I'm going to talk about it with you in depth as I am. So it's about, I've had dysfunctional relationships that I didn't know were dysfunctional at the time. You only know what you know.

Yeah.

And about a year into the relationship with Amber, and she had already told me, she said, I'm not going to do one of those makeup breakup. Makeup breakup. Makeup breakup things, which had been a previous relationship that I had had. And she said, I'm not doing that. Like, okay, no, fine. It's about a year in. I can remember the chinese restaurants where we are. And in my mind, I was like, I'm out of here. Because, you know, there's no. There's no drama. This is. I'm used to conflict, and I was equating conflict with love and that if it was easy going, it must not be sexy, it must not be fun. And the relationship was really good, but this was my thinking. And so I was getting to the point, and I was sitting, we were sitting at the bar, and I was like, you know, boy, this is going to devastate her when I do this. And I said, you know, I'm thinking. I'm not really sure. And she just looked at me straight in the eyes and she said, robin, I know the relationship you had in the before, if that is what you want, knock yourself out.

And I was, like, stunned because I thought she'd be like, oh, no, you can't leave me. You must stay with me. And she did just the opposite with such confidence going, I know what you had, and I know what you have now, and if that's what you want. And then it was that kind of like, oh, no, no, no, no. And I didn't go through with it, but it was her response that really made me think and also made me think also, like, why did I think that was love before? Why do I think now that it's no drama and we. It's easy. Why do we look at that as not being able, sexy and not being a true relationship? And I'm so grateful to her, and I'm grateful that I took the time also to realize, Robin, no. And I had to unlearn some things, and we never talk about unlearning. We always talk about learning. Sometimes you have to unlearn. And I had to. And I shared this with a few friends who've been in a similar situation, and they were like, wow, thank you. They're like, right. You have to just really dig deep and go like, is that what we think is love?

No, but at the time, we do.

So many of us don't realize we're attracted to what's familiar to us. Right. And then we don't realize, why do I keep dating the same person, just different pair of pants or whatever? And I remember so many relationships that I've had in my past. I've always. I thought I would tell myself the story, oh, I'm just attracted to, like, edgy, bad boys, you know, that kind of thing. That always broke my heart, that always mistreated me. And if I would meet a really good person, I would not be. I put him in the friend zone. And it took me decades to realize, oh, you know, and thinking about, you know, my dad, who had raised me, who was alcoholic and all these things, that was what I was, like, comfortable and familiar with, and that was what I was attracted to. So it takes us being aware of it and doing the work and what a blessing you were able to do it in real time in one conversation, realize, oh, wait a minute. Probably because Amber shared, by the way. I just have to say, how sexy is it when someone knows their worth, right?

Oh, I know.

She came right out and knew her worth.

She did. And she let me know that. What was it about Paulo.

Whoo. Paulo took work. Paulo is my husband. Paulo, for the longest time, I told him, I don't want to get married. I don't want to get married. I don't want. And I actually thought he was too kind, and he was too. You know what I'm saying? And I would beg him to get a tattoo. All the things I'm like, he's not edgy enough.

I don't want a bad boy.

Yeah. I want it back. And it took me a lot of work and also therapy. A lot of therapy to realize, oh, okay. We are attracted to the level of love that we actually love ourselves. Right? So it's like this journey of raising our own worthiness, raising our own self love so we can accept love that's healthy and real from someone else and not chaotic. So it's like this journey. And I love, you know, just for everyone listening right now, I think I. I love that you shared that. Even right now, as a newlywed, you're still growing in that understanding of almost, like, in a way, personal mastery and understanding. Oh, wait. I actually have the power to decide how I feel, to choose joy, to let little things go to all those things.

And I want marriage to be different. And a lot of people ask me after we got married, knowing we had been together for so long, and they said, well, is it different now? And I'm like, yeah, and I want it to be. And I think that we go through these different seasons, and you'll hear me say that a lot because that's what my mama always taught me about the different seasons in our lives. And I'm just so grateful that all these things that we have done in our lives, they lead us to a certain point. And if we just. We're always so busy. And I just love that stillness that I allow myself to be in to kind of, like, listen and take. And what do you find? Like, especially when a young person comes to you and they say, you know, help me define. Help me get to where I want to go, and I'll ask them about themselves. And I said, so what do you want? Or let me get to know you. And they're like, I don't know. I'm like, if you don't know, how do you expect somebody else to know?

Yes.

And so I'm grateful that I take that time to get to know myself. And I've changed over the years. Thank goodness. I've changed. Overdose. I want to change, but the core has to stay the same, should stay the same.

I think so many people, we don't know ourselves or we're scared to be ourselves. And so many of us live our lives in this fear of showing up authentically, like, we believe if I'm me, the real me, I won't be loved. And in 2012, you almost declined an interview with a president of the United States out of this kind of a fear. And can, I think, just, oh, my gosh, the journey of deciding to show up in this world authentically. So few people do it. So many of us believe that lie. If I am me, I won't be loved. And almost declining an interview with the president of the United States. Can you share a little bit about that story? And also, you know, how did you power through that fear.

Jamie, Ker and Lima. You're coming in hot. You're coming in hot with these questions. I love it. I love it. You're making me really relive into, oh, 2012. 2012. Well, first of all, let me say about. And I'm glad you said about authentic self, and I even taught a masterclass on that, about being your authentic self and what that means. And I had to learn that for myself. And 2012 really helped me. So I had just been. In 2007, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and it was triple negative. And as a black woman, I was told that you're less likely to get cancer, but if you get this type of cancer as a black woman, you're less likely to get it, but you're more likely to die if you do get it. What do you do with that type of information? So they threw the kitchen sink at me. I went through extensive treatment, and it saved my life. And I was so grateful that it saved my life. But that treatment then later put me in danger of losing my life. And so in 2012, I was diagnosed with myelodysplastic syndrome, MDs. It's a form of pre leukemia.

It's a blood cancer and disorder. So I had just come from a. I still get emotional when I think about it. Visiting with a doctor. Amber was with me. My sister Dorothy was with me. And this doctor basically said, if you don't have a successful bone marrow transplant, you will not live. You will be dead for two years. And so I'm coming out of this. This meeting with the doctor, and my phone had been off for quite a bit of time, and the president of our news division at the time was trying to reach me, and I finally returned his call, and he said, president of the United States wants to talk with you tomorrow. And usually, you go as a reporter, you're like, yes. But he had no idea about my diagnosis. And I said, can I call you back? And he goes, well, wait a minute, Robin. He wants to talk to you about changing his stance on marriage equality. I had not been public about Amber. My family, my bosses, everyone knew, but I had not been public about her and my sexuality. And so I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm going to sit down with the president of the United States and talk about changing his stance on marriage equality.

Will that out me? The nerve for me to be selfish in thinking how this is going to impact me. When the commander in chief was going to say to the world that people like me are worthy, are worthy of being married and so I called my news, my president back of our news division, and I said, yes, I'll do the interview. I will do the interview. And so here I'm toiling with the fact I might not live. And then also the guilt of, like, why am I being so selfish and not wanting to do this interview? Because of how it could impact me instead of thinking how it was going to change countless lives. And I sat across from then President Barack Obama, and I'll never forget saying, mister President, do you change your stance on marriage equality? And he said, yes, he did. And I made headlines across the world. And there was still a part of me that thought, oh, my goodness, people are going to wonder because I'm gay, even though they didn't know for sure. But there was some speculation, would wonder if that was a reason why I had been selected to do the interview.

And would that lead to. I wasn't ready for the entire world to know about Amber and about my life. I just wanted some things to be kept private. But being my authentic self in that moment was so impactful for me, and I'm so proud that I did it. And I'm also little. I was a little shocked at the time because I was very, very private. It's one thing when you're gay and you're private. It means they say you're in the closet. And I think about all the celebrities and people who don't want to share their private life, and they're considered private. But I was considered in the closet. But you know what? I'm sitting here in front of you right now, and I'm so glad I did it. The young people, especially growing up in the southeast, who didn't have a role model of somebody like myself. I'm so grateful that I found the courage to be my authentic self in that moment.

You know, I hear two things that I just want to call out for everyone listening, because they're tools that are the only way I know how to also show up as my authentic self. And a lot of people are struggling with this. And in that moment, kind of what I heard in one of the many incredible things you just shared is that you had this moment where you're like, how do I make this not about me and about something bigger than me? Even you walking into the Jamie Kiran Lima show. I know, Robin. If I for a second think about me, I'm done. I have to know in every ounce of my being, oh, this is about every person listening. How can it serve them, help them feel less alone? And that's when it's like I get the courage to be fully, like, to show up fully. And just hearing you share the moments, both before you said yes to that interview, and then also, even as you reflect on it now, of just how it impacts something or someone beyond ourselves. And I think about this sometimes. I mean, you're talking about an iconic moment in history.

And I think for so many people, their platform might look different. It might look like the three people they see in the school drop off every day. It might look like the people that they are with in the workplace, the cubicles around them, whatever it looks like. But I think what I try to tell myself is in those moments when we show up as who we authentically are, I feel like it gives, if we're like, I don't know, a bigger reason to do that, it gives someone else permission for them to do it. Like, it can always be. I think about something bigger than ourselves. I feel like it's one of the greatest tools on how to break through that fear, because so many of us fear, like, what if people judge me? What if they don't love me anymore? And you were in this situation where, first of all, you broke the 16 year streak that Today show had as the number one show. You come in, you know, good Morning America hits the number one spot. All these things. You literally wake up millions of people every single morning, and you're on top.

You're number one. And when we talk about this sort of common fear that we feel like, if I share who I really am, will people judge me? Will I lose love? Will this impact my career? Like, all of the things that people worry about, did you worry about that? Sitting in that number one spot in all of America and deciding to share, I'm gay. This is who I am.

Because you know what? It's not the Robin Roberts show. It's good morning America. And there are so many people whose livelihoods depend on the success of our show. And so if I do something that hurts the show, that hurts them. Yes. I mean, and I thought about that. I didn't want to do anything to hurt those people who I've been working with and absolutely adore. And I did feel for a moment, Jamie, I'm like, oh, my goodness, if I admit to this, even though I could say which is true, everybody I work with knew I would walk down the street with Amber, and if somebody saw us, I would introduce her. I wasn't trying to hide, but yet I wasn't ready to fully. And part of it is, and I never said this before. Part of it is because of my Christianity, because I was afraid. And that was really, really the underlying reason why never share this. I was afraid that people, they think you can't be gay and a Christian. And I am. I am. And I was so fearful that I would be shunned. And, you know, Jamie and I still have this letter.

I'm Presbyterian, and I received a letter, a beautiful letter from the national office, the Presbyterian church, after I announced about Amber. Fully supportive. Fully supportive. And then I think about all those years I wasted, worried, needless worry. And we all are guilty of this. Think about all these things that we worry about that never come to fruition, and we just spend all of this energy and that. But also I had to believe this was right on time. This was the time in my life that was right. It felt good. And I can't even imagine now, not people knowing everything about me. And, you know, what's so freeing about it also? It's like, bring it on. You know, everything about me and I have nothing to hide. And to still be, still be embraced and to be, to, I am blessed and highly favored.

Yes.

And I'm so grateful. But I think also what helped me is in 2005 when I had just been named the co anchor with the Diane Sawyer and the Charlie Gibson. And I'm going through that imposter syndrome, you know, coming from ESPN. How can I be worthy enough to sit next to these two people as the third co anchor of Good Morning America and Hurricane Katrina comes along and I'm asked to go down to cover it. And my mother was unable to evacuate and I'd lost contact with her and my siblings who were in the area. And I went down the morning after, and ABC thinks I'm there to cover the aftermath of Katrina. I was there to find my mom and to use the resources to get me down there to find her. And so I told my producer, you set up for the live shot. I have to find my family to see if they're okay. And I found them shortly before airtime and went back to the location to do the live shot. And I'm all buttoned up and I'm that, you know, reporter. And I'm like, yes, here on the Mississippi Gulf coast, you know, you know, a, b and c.

This is what happened. And Charlie Gibson then said in my ear my IFB little earpiece that we wear when you left here, Robin, you didn't know the condition of your family. Were you able to find them? And Jamie, I did an ugly cry. I just broke down live on national television, crying, crying. Almost couldn't catch my breath. And I said to him, yes, I did find my family. They're, well, the house, not so much. But I knew that people tuning in that morning didn't know the condition of their loved ones. And I knew what that felt like. Cause that had been me. I thought I was going to be fired on the spot. It was 2005 when, as journalists, you did not do what I did, and just the opposite happened. People embraced me. And I think that was one of the stepping stones to allowing me to be so open. About two years later, breast cancer, mds, I'm gay. Which I thought should have been followed by, I'm gay. Duh. You know, people really, really, Robin, that's not a, you know, no breaking news there, but I think all those stepping stones, and it began in 2005, when I was my authentic self.

I was the child of a mother. I was a child and didn't know the condition of her family and just really felt the moment. And I think that's what we all need to do. Why are we so. Why know why we are? It's just as you said, will we be judged? Will we be loved? And then to know that if you just, it's just so much easier to be who you are in that moment.

In 2005 when you are crying on national tv, which, by the way, you mentioned imposter syndrome and getting such a big job like that, and then you're live on air. And I've seen this video. I remember the hair, I remember everything outfit, all of it. And I remember you just completely, it felt as if you were like you're just bearing your soul and people could connect with you. And I think, you know, one thing that you're sharing, just to think for everyone listening, because a lot of people are like, well, how do I do this in my life? And I think, you know, you've shared with me before, Robin, that when we have fear of stuff, sometimes, like, once we actually look it straight in the eye, it shrinks, it gets smaller. Right. And I'm thinking about just hearing this sort of one step at a time progression of, you know, you're crying on as the third co anchor of Good Morning America, just the biggest job in the country. And at the time, that was not being done. And to be fearful about, am I going to get fired? How will this be received?

And then to have viewers just fully embrace you and realize, like, oh, wow, the fear kind of shrinks, right? One step at a time. And then sharing your diagnosis, sharing everything. I know when you shared your diagnosis with mds, I think the donor match bank that day got an 1800 percent increase right in support, which just speaks to also the power of your platform and how you use it. And so when I think about that and I think about you choosing to be like, this is me, like, this is all of me, I think about the power of that. And, you know, when you just shared about being a Christian and being gay, what did you fear about those two things?

Ooh. When I think about when people ask me why I've achieved the level of success that I have. Success is different for everybody. And whatever people look at, but they'll look at me and they say, how have you become so successful? And I will say, it's the three d's that my mother and father, Colonel Lawrence E. Roberts and Lucy Marion Roberts, taught their four children. And that first d is discipline. And maybe it's because my father was a Tuskegee airman and we were in the military for all those years and just having to be disciplined. And the second d, determination. And just being determined that no matter what, you're going to defy the odds. And the third and most important d, the Lord, the Lord, the Lord. Okay, so I was most concerned that I wasn't concerned so much with the Lord not loving me, but that people feeling that I could not be loved by the Lord because I'm gay. And I remember, oh, my gosh, my mother was the most spiritual person you would ever want to meet in your life. And when I told her, because, oh, gosh, I can't believe some stuff I'm going to tell you.

All right, I'm turning 50, and I'm going to do something special on Good Morning America. And that's dance with Max from Dancing with the Stars. And it was going to be a big surprise. And so we were teasing the audience about that, and I was at the beauty shop with my girl Petula, and my sister calls and she says, yeah, mom's afraid. And I'm going, what? She's afraid that she's heard you say that you have this big revelation, this big thing you're doing for your 50th. She thinks you're going to tell everybody that you're gay. Like, I'm dancing with Max. I'm not telling anybody I'm gay. And she said she's really, really worried.

There is so much more coming up in this episode. You are not going to want to miss it. But first, I wanted to share this with you in life. You don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams, you stay stuck at the level of your self worth. When you build your self worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, worthy how to believe you are enough and trance transform your life for you. If you have some self doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, worthy is for you. In worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self doubt and unshakable self worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you@worthybook.com. or the link in the show notes below.

Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with worthy, who you spend time around is so important, as energy is contagious and so is self belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you, delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jamiecarnlima.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie Weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox. I'm your girl. Subscribe@jamiekarnlima.com or in the link in the show notes. And now more of this incredible conversation together.

And I never really had a conversation with my mother. I mean, she knew because I would bring women home and there was never any doubt, whatever, but never really had the conversation. And so I said, I'm coming home. I'm gonna have the con. I'll let mom know, you know, that this is not the case. I go home and we're having the conversation, and it had to be twofold because as I'm talking to her about Amber and saying, mama, you know I'm with Amber. She goes, yes, honey, I do know. And I said, you do know that I'm, you know, I have been gay. Yes, honey, I do know. And as only a mother can do and make it about themselves, she goes, I think it's my fault. And I'm like, why? She goes, well, you know, I had your brother, and I had your two sisters. And so when I was pregnant with you, I prayed that you'd be a boy. And I'm like, mama, that has nothing to do. And I had to cut the conversation off. I was like, mom, I cannot continue to have this conversation. And so we go home. I'm in my room, she's in her room.

And the next morning, I can hear her little. She's just laughing in her room. I go in there, and I go, mama, what's up? She goes, honey, you know what? I've been trying to please people all my life. First it was my parents, and then it was your daddy. You live your life. You are a child of God. He loves you because of who he is, not because of anything you do or don't do. Oh, I was free. Oh, you know, to hear my mama say that to me. And that was shortly thereafter that I found the courage then to say to everybody else, because if my mother, who. And I remember. I can remember Jamie being in my mom and dad's house, and she would always write these little notes to God. And I found one note, and this was this. I was, like, in my thirties, and she was praying that I would get married and have a child. Married. Find a good man and have a child. And you know what? I didn't get angry because I'm, like, in her world, that would mean that her daughter was set for life. That's how she grew up, that you had.

You got married to a man, you had a baby, you're good. And I remember when I was younger, I'd get all angry, like, why does she feel that way? I'm like, of course she feels that way. And so for her to go from there to accepting me and Amber, not judging and then also to say what she did about God. And so when you asked me what was I fearful of, I was fearful more so of people, of what people would think about me and my relationship with God. And I'm so grateful that my mother said that to me to help me understand that it doesn't matter what they say. It's what I know to be true.

When she said the words I thought it was my fault. Using the word fault right away says, but she had just come off it. She shared, she's been pleasing people her whole life. And when we think of, like, I thought it was my fault. She's in that space of what are other people going to think? And a belief system and a judgment. And then the very next day, like, hearing this story, it feels like she transitioned into no longer pleasing people and actually connecting with, like, how does God feel about this? And her reconciling it that way and getting sort of out of that people pleaser mode and into, like, her truth, her soul, what she knows. It almost sounds like two different. Like she transcended in a day to a different space.

Yeah. And I think that's so astute. And I remember when, after she said that the second day about, you know, I've, you know, live your own life. I've been trying to please people, and I love you. And I called my brother and my sister, said, mama, and they were like, are you sure that's mama? Go check. And I'm like, I'm telling you guys, it was even for them to go like, wow, she really hasn't. And I think it was, you know, she was in a season in her life, or, you know, a father had passed away, and she was now being. And I remember this because she used to use my dad as an excuse for not doing some things, saying, well, you know, your daddy won't allow me or not to not allow me, but, you know, I got to take care of your daddy. Da da da. So when daddy was gone, we're like, okay, mama, so you can't blame daddy anymore. And so she always was in that generation of, I think if she had come along later in life, she looked at me as the life that she wanted for herself, that she went to college not to get her Ms. But to get her misses, as many of her generation did.

And I think that she was really very grateful in the end to be able to have the relationship she had with me and to be able to share these things with me.

You know what I'm just thinking, Robin, that I think so many people listening right now are not free in the judgment they might feel or the fear they might feel from people around them, including their family. But also, as parents, everyone often just wants to do the best they see what's happening with their children as a reflection of themselves. They have all these. They want to please everyone else. And I'm hearing this moment that you shared, and you shared once your mom said those words to you that you are free. And I'm also hearing, though, that that day she became free.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was like, both of you, can you just share one more time the words she said to you that second day? Because I think there's so many people out there, and I'll just speak for myself. You know, I'm adopted. I have five families. I have. My family's a mix of all different political beliefs and faith, and no faith. All the things. But there are people that are so strong in their learned belief system or their struggles with trying to reconcile things turning out differently than maybe they hoped they would or then they might believe they should be, or that they might look different than the exact definition of what their religion looks like or anything else.

All of that.

And I'm just hearing this moment that I feel Robin is going to free so many people when they reframe how they think about their situation in their own life, or even how they should handle something right now when they have not yet learned to love someone for who they are, not for who they wish they'd be. And can you just share again the words your mom said to you that day?

And I think it was so impactful what she said based upon what she had said that just the day before about it being her fault and about the reason that I was gay, because she had wanted to. Boy. And so for the next morning, I mean, for not even 24 hours later, to hear her, and it was almost like she must have, because I could hear her just, like, laughing and, like, almost talking to herself, you know, I think she was recounting the conversation that we had had the night before, the day before. And so to walk into her room and go, you know, like, mama. And just. There's a light in her eyes, and she just looked me straight in the eyes, and it made it first about herself and saying, I have tried to please people all my life. First it was your grandparents, my mother, and your father tried to please them, and then it was your daddy. And then when she said, live your life, because I think she was feeling that she had not fully lived her life and she wanted her baby girl, you live your life. And then to follow it with what she said about, you're my child and you're a child of God.

He loves you because of who he is, not anything you do or don't do. And I think she needed to combine that with what she was saying about herself. And it's so true. And I think, God bless mamas. I'm looking at a mama of two right now and how proud you are of your son and your daughter. And I love the names. I love your names. But there's something about mothers who always feel, and I think this of my mother, because I have two sisters and a brother, and we all have a different relationship with my mom. And I think that mothers, can you just cut yourself some slacken and please know that the children really are listening. They really are listening. I mean, think about the times that we rolled our eyes at our mom. And I remember as a teenager, and I was about to go out, and she could tell I was going to get into some trouble. And all she had to say is, rob and renee, you know, right from wrong. And so I'd go out, and I was about to do wrong, and I knew right from wrong. And I look at my friends and say, oh, man, I gotta go home.

And I'd go back home, but I wouldn't give my mom the satisfaction of knowing that it was because of what she said. But it's just something about moms that they just are always so hard on themselves. And it just breaks my heart.

I am thinking about how toward the start of our conversation, when you're sharing, you know, before you were married, things that might bother you or annoy you, and now you sort of realize, oh, I can choose, joy. I can choose. And I'm just thinking, too, for people just struggling to let the people to love the people they care so much about for who they are. Your mom, in that moment, she chose joy. Like, she literally chose a whole new outlook and became free. And I think that is, I just feel it's going to set someone free today because so many families, and again, I have this from experience. They hang on to stuff and they think it's their fault. And they, you know, and they think they're all the things and just learning to just, like, reframe it, reconcile, you know? I don't know. I think God makes every one of us in his image.

It's forgiveness, and it's forgiveness of yourself, not just forgiveness to others. And there's something that you just said there, like we hold on to something. And I remember doing a story, and it was about forgiveness. A woman who suffered an unspeakable loss, her childhood young child was abducted and later learned that the child had been. Had been murdered. And when they didn't know about the fate of the daughter, and the kidnapper would call and taunt the mother, and he called one time and she. It was on the anniversary of when the daughter had been abducted. And so he called and he goes, I'm the one who took your daughter. And I think he was ready for her to be. And she said, how are you? He's like, what are you? Okay? And because of her kindness, they ended up finding him and finding, unfortunately, the child had been murdered. But she said to me, and this is something about forgiveness, that we hang on to it because we think that it's hurting that person. It's hurting the person that we're not. I can't forgive this. If I forgive them, I'm letting them off the hook.

No, when you forgive, you're letting yourself off the hook. And I think that's so important for people to realize about forgiveness and letting themselves off the hook and stop holding on to something, but you can just reframe it. And I often say, you got to change the way you think in order to change the way you feel. And I can even find myself sometimes at Good Morning America, my glam fam, Lena Petula. They can sense it. And I'm like, almost. I remember the other morning, I do remember this because I normally do a morning message and prayer, and I wasn't in the mood to do it. I was, I was just, I, and I was just in the state you.

Needed the morning message in prayer.

I needed it, but I know, but I wasn't. But I wasn't going to deliver it. And so Elena Petula, they're, they're like, oh, they're finishing up with me. And I'm just like, I'm not doing it today. I'm not in the mood to do it. And I'm like, okay, you know, and I go, and I have to do some pre recording and something and come back into the dressing room when I'm supposed to, to the morning message in prayer. And all of a sudden I said to them, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And they're, they, you know, and so they, we went through it. And I even admit it at the beginning of it, I said, I came in, in a mood this morning. But you know what? Here we are with the morning message in prayer. And it's something that I needed to hear. And it was at that moment when I came back in, I chose not to be in that state anymore. It's, again, it goes back to being, having a choice. And so I was just so grateful. But I was really proud of them, too.

They knew me well enough because if they'd say, you got to do it. I would have been like a little kid. No, I don't. But when people that inner circle your ride or dies know you. And I was so grateful and I felt so good after, and people were very appreciative. They're like, oh, you can be in a bad mood. I'm like, yes, I can. I can. I'm just like everybody else. I'm not always in this joyful state, but to admit to people, I really didn't want to do it. I'm so glad that I did.

Did you share that?

I shared it with her.

You shared it with me. I did not want to.

I did not want to do this. And they were like, ah, well, thank you for doing it. And then also for letting us know that you can be in that state as well. But again, it was a choice not to stay in it.

It's the most beautiful thing. Just, like, reflecting on the pattern of vulnerability and authenticity, like, your entire journey and just how people feel then permission to be who they are and to be like, they feel less alone, right? They feel more enough. Like, oh, Robin gets in a bad mood too, you know, okay, maybe I'm not alone. Nothing's wrong with me. I'm just human. I'm just human. And I think that that's so powerful. And I think about, just on the topic of authenticity, I think about, you know, I mentioned when you shared your diagnosis with mds and just that day and 1800 percent increase in donors to the match agency and just the power of everything that you share. And I want to ask you, Robin, about making the decision for you and Amber to share, share that you're getting married and to kind of open that up, that journey up to viewers. And I have to say, when I learned you were gonna do that, like, as your friend, I was in tears about it. Like, I was really? Yes.

Because why?

I think about the families, the generational cycles of judgment and pain and expired, antiquated belief systems. I think about the number of people, this is just me, your friends. So you can tell me if this is way off, but this is how I felt. I just sat there and cried. And I imagined, as you and Amber share your journey with all of America, I imagine the grandmas, moms, daughters, I imagine all of it, and men, too. I imagine them, people who have spent years of their life hearing good morning from you every single day. They love you. They trust you. They probably spend way more time with you than their own family. And then for you to show them what love looks like and for a lot of people change their definition of what love can look like. I just imagine, like, I imagine the judgment slowly melting away like a snowman melts in the sunshine. Like, I imagine, like, hearts being healed. I imagine hearts opening up. I imagine the phone calls that family members are more receptive to as. Like, they realize that maybe what they thought or judged isn't actually the truth.

And just when I think of an 18%, 1800% increase in donor matches, just one day mentioning it, think about the impact of you sharing who you are authentically on so many other families and people, and just. Yeah.

Oh, I remember speaking. It was down south. It was a women's group. And I mentioned Amber. This was after I had talked about her, and I was doing a meet and greet after, and this wonderful woman comes up to me, and she just hugs me, and she said, because of you, I can have a conversation with my friends about my daughter, who was gay. And she said, because they love you. And see how you talk about it. Like you would like. George talks about his wife allie, just not liking anything more than just who I love and just the little nuances of our relationship. But I'll never forget that woman saying that. And I thought about that. It was in January of 2023, and we had a lovely woman on. That's on every year, Gabby Bernstein, about talking about, okay, it's a new year. And she said, what are you going to say yes to? And I thought I'd give the typical anchor response, you know? And then I thought, like, because Amber and I had been talking about it, and she came back to me, said, what are you gonna say yes to? And I said, I'm saying yes to marriage.

You could have hit a pin drop. And then I'm like. And it was also because we had talked about it off and on. I don't think if I had not said it out loud on national television that we would have. We had to set the date and those things. But there was something when we had this bridal shower, who we had en Vogue singing, and Niecy Nash was the emcee, and my sister and dear friends, and Amber's friends were there, we're going to do. And so they were promoting it on Good Morning America. And I'll never forget this. So the promo airs, and so we're watching the promo, and George Stephanopoulos is sitting next to me, and the promo ends, and it's like, you know, Robin's getting married, and, you know, talking about all the things that are happening, and George was sitting back like this and he goes, he looks at me, he goes, Robin, did you ever imagine in your wildest dreams that you'd be having your bridal shower on national television growing up, little girl in Mississippi, and I looked at him and I said, and to a woman, you know, and it's like, you know, he wasn't even thinking about that.

He was just thinking the fact that, you know, bridal shower on national television. And when I said that, everybody just, they broke out and laughed. They're like, yeah, that's right. And it's just, it was just the simplicity of it, the, the normalcy of it, not saying, you know, Robin, and you know, Robin getting married to a woman, it was like, hey, Robin's run. Getting married to the love of her life. And I think because of how we did it on Good Morning America, because they know Amber, they know me, it's like we would have done it with any anchor who was about to be married. And I think the public picked up on that as well, and they appreciated it. And I do think, especially being, I was born in Alabama, I was raised in Mississippi, I went to college in Louisiana. I've worked in Nashville and Atlanta. I am a girl raised in the South. I am a grit girls raised in the south. And I often think about the impact. And my sister, Sally Anna, who is considered the Oprah of New Orleans, she was on local television in New Orleans for like 40 years.

In fact, even to this day, when I go to New Orleans, I'm not Robin Roberts Sally. I'm baby sister. So she was talking about how many people came up to her after we made the announcement that we were getting married and said to her, please thank Robin and Amber. And it wasn't our motivation at the time, but something that we haven't talked about. And this is pretty much about mds and getting people on the registry and make your mess your message, make your mess your message. And I think when we do that and we make it bigger than ourselves. When I was diagnosed, I knew that I was very, I was very grateful for the healthcare that I was going to receive. It was not going to guarantee a successful outcome, but it was going to increase the likelihood. And nobody's zip code should dictate the type of healthcare that they receive. But that's a whole other podcast. But I remember going, okay, people don't realize that a family member is not an automatic match for a bone barrel donation. That 70% of the time, 70% of the time, it's somebody off the registry that's going to save your life, not a family member.

And as somebody who is african American or as my mother says, we got a lot of cream in our coffee. We got a little. Got a little caucasian, we got a little this, we got a little that the likelihood of finding a match is very, very difficult. And so to be able to use my platform to be able to increase the registry and to get more people of color to join the registry, it just takes it off of me and what I'm going through and knowing that there is a reason behind everything. The tragedy is not divorce. The tragedy is not unemployment or sickness. It's, if you don't take the time to understand why was this placed in my path, what am I supposed to learn from this? What is the message in this? And what am I supposed to share is so much greater than what it is that you're going through?

I believe, you know, what do you think the impact. And you share people coming up to your sister. Actually, I want to ask you this, Robin, before I forget, because I think when I learned this for the first time, I just thought it was so powerful, because a lot of people, we don't know how to handle it. When someone shares some news with us that we're not expecting or if it's good news or bad news, or they share something with us unexpected, we don't know how to show up for them. A lot of people don't know how to respond and how to handle things. And when you shared how youre sister handled it in a diner, when you shared with her, you know, that you're gay. Can you share that?

Because I just feel like, wow, you've done your homework.

Oh, but how she handled it, I want to just have in a bottle and just. I just thought it was the most.

Oh, my gosh.

Can you share.

I have not shared this. How did you. Okay. Wow. We have talked a lot over the years. Who would have thought that innocent passengers next to each other on a random flight would.

Robin and I met on an airplane just sitting next to each other. I think we were going to ship from New York to Chicago.

Chicago, right, right.

And did you.

Wasn't Paolo supposed to sit next to me? But you switched seats.

Yes. Yeah, we. Yeah, he knows. I just think you're incredible. And so he's like, you're going to.

Want to switch seats.

And, you know, he. He's so funny. He could care less about anybody or anything. Oblivious. You could put him next to you. Anybody, you know. And so we swapped and.

But you didn't speak to me. Throughout the entire flight. It wasn't until we were about to get off the flight, we got up.

Yeah.

And we started talking. And you gave me your business card. I had that little business card that you gave me.

I remember. Cosmetics. And in that moment, I just. I watched as everyone was boarding the plane, and I think you were on a phone call for part of it. And it was every second, which I know this is a blessing, of course, and I know you cherish this, but every second, people were panicking the second they realized it was you and freaking out. And I just sat there watching this, and I thought to myself, I wonder if it would be a gift to her just to have peace for a flight, just to be able to exhale. Right. I was imagining that you'd been on all air that day. I was imagining you can't go anywhere without everyone. Which, again, I know that you cherish that. It's a blessing when people come up to you, but I was just watching it one after another, after another. And I just sat for a moment and thought, like, how can I somehow be a blessing to Robin? And I didn't know the answer. This was me, of course, making up my own story at the time. But I just thought, you know, what if I just do my own thing and work the whole flight and just let her just have this space and.

Yeah, so I didn't talk to you the entire flight. Meanwhile, you and I are sitting next to each other, and then. And then I said hi when we had landed, but. And I didn't know if that. I just thought, how can I be a blessing to her? Which I always think is kind of a great way to, you know, approach any relationship, really. And who knew we'd have a friendship? Who knew?

I know, but I remember that moment, and I'm so grateful for that moment, and so you just never know. Get ready for your suddenly. We all have to get ready for our suddenly. But you're asking about my sister. This was sister Dorothy. This is sister Dorothy. This is. I was 24. I was working local television in Mississippi, and I was like, I have to tell somebody in my family because I was struggling. Am I gay? Am I not? No. I know I'm gay, okay? I know I'm gay. I need to tell a family member. So I take my sister Dorothy out to lunche, and I'm working up the nerve to tell her, you know, the famous words, I'm gay. And we're sitting there, and I'm about to do it, and we place our orders, and I say, dorothy, I'm gay. And at that very instant, the server comes and puts down the food and is taking his time. And I've just said this to my sister. I'm gay. And so we have to wait until the server, the iced tea, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she started to cry. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, she hates me.

She must think I'm just, oh, my gosh. And then the server leaves, and she looks at me and she goes, I'm not crying because you told me you're gay. I'm crying because you love me enough to tell me you're gay. Woo. Oh, what a response, you know? But how my mind was racing as I was like, God, would you just please, we don't want any sweet tea, please. This is what I'm thinking to myself. So all this time, I'm looking at her thinking all these horrible thoughts that she must have, and she couldn't wait to tell me what she told me.

That response, I feel like, is just the most beautiful offering that you can give to someone you care about. And thank you for sharing that. I just. For me, it's helped me in my life. And I think so many people listening when they. If someone loves you enough to share something so vulnerable, so personal, so whether you understand it or not, whether you may have had past judgment on it or not, whatever it is, whether it's shocking or not, but to be able to respond, respond in that way, like, I, like, thank you for loving me enough to share that with me. I feel like that's how you respond. That's how you respond. Like, that is how you respond. And so often we don't know how to respond. And so people try their best with good intentions, but then say stuff that somehow creates disconnection. And I just thought that was, thank you for sharing that because I think someone needs that in their toolbox. That tool in their toolbox.

You know what? I think someone's going to take that away.

Yes.

And they're going to put it in their toolbox and they're going to use that. And I think because you do struggle sometimes, because she wasn't saying, I agree or disagree with what you said. It wasn't that. It was like, I love you. Yes, I love you. Because you, you know, the fact that I loved her enough to share that with her. And so. Yeah, so think about that. When somebody is bearing their soul to you, just be in that moment for that time to be there and to recognize that they must love you, to share something like that.

Yeah. And it's just such a beautiful way to respond, you know? It's just. And I feel like a way to bring you closer with that person.

I do. I agree.

Just be there and. Okay. I want to talk about something I'm so passionate about and so excited to share with everyone.

I surrender. I surrender.

We have more tissues right down there.

And I went to my mama and I said, I'm angry at God. I knew that as a black woman, that my margin of failure, my margin of error was less than.

And you're going for it. Putting yourself out there saying, pick me.

And he saw Oprah Winfrey qualities in me. God's delays are not his denials.

Do you ever doubt God exists?

You are going for the jugular. Oh, my God. I love this. Jamie, I don't have these kind of conversations. Oh, you're good. Oh, my. You are a pro here. I'm talking about. Can I just, for a moment, as a pro, just give you kudos that you've barely looked at your notes, that you have been so. You're so well prepared, and that you really want to. It's not about me, and it's not about you. It's about the listener. I'm sorry. I'm just so impressed.

Do you now ever feel unworthy? Ooh.

Oh, gosh. Such a good question. Jamie. You know, I do look up to the heavens sometimes and go, come on, enough is enough.

I have a letter from your wife. A letter from your wife.

What are you doing? You're going for the jugular again.

Would you be willing to share it?

I have not seen this. I feel loved. I feel understood. But I'll never forget how you made me feel today. I will never forget this feeling. It is a gift to be able to talk to a friend the way you have today.

The more we do that, the more our life tastes like freedom.

I need day drinking. I need shots.

Shots all around.

I need day drinking.

I have a few words to share with you, but before I do, make sure you subscribe and click the notifications button so you can find out first when a new episode is out. And thank you so much for joining me today. And before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show. And here, I hope you will come as you are and heal where you need. Blossom what you choose. Journey toward your calling. Stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are loved. You are love. I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show. Do you struggle with negative self talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting. I know because I spent most of my life in that habit.

The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful, and when you learn to take control over your self talk, it's life changing and I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life. It's called five ways to overcome negative self talk and build self love. And it's a free how to guide to overcome that negative self talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals. Don't let self sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer. It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self love, resilience, and unwavering belief. If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekern lima.com resources or click the link in the show notes below.

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This book is going to change lives. This book literally will teach you how to actually feel worthy so that you.

Can have the strength you can. The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's book Worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear.

End that you deserve. Jamie's book Worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away, but they're all free right now on worthybook.com. this show is presented solely for entertainment purposes only. It's not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, professional coach or other qualified professional. I hope you enjoyed this episode and conversation together, and I am so grateful to be on this journey with you. And did you know? For every episode of the Jamie Kern Lima show, there are a set of special prompt questions just for you to help you on your journey of aha moments and revelations in your own life. From each episode, make sure you join my free email newsletter@jamiekernlima.com to get them sent to you each week. And each episode is meant to be evergreen and packed with timeless life lessons so you can go back and listen to past episodes you perhaps haven't heard yet. As we are going on this incredible journey of building self worth and living our best lives together.