Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, my friend. Pull up to the microphone so other people can hear me.

People can hear me and see me.

Have you ever done a podcast? Yeah. You have done podcast. I've listened to you on podcasts.

I've done. Oh, you did?

Yeah, I listened to you on some pod. I was shooting arrows in my backyard, and some podcast came up and said, greg Overton. I'm like, get the fuck out of here, my man.

See, I'm doing all kinds of shit.

Yeah.

My boy Justin, who's from Pittsburgh. What's up, Justin? He does the Curious Jones podcast, and we also do those zippos. He does those so lit zips curious Jones podcast. He's a cool dude.

We got one of those right here.

Yeah, the Black Dragon samurai.

Yeah. This is the samurai that we have outside next to the. Did you see the actual samurai armor?

Yeah, fucking crazy.

Real samurai.

And the sword.

And the sword. The sword is even older than the armor. The armor is from the 18 hundreds, but the sword is from the 15 hundreds.

So is that. That's right before the Sengoku jidai, the time of the country at war, the 300 years where they're at war. I'm trying to think, did it begin in the 15 hundreds?

I don't.

Can you look that up? Sengoku jidai.

Pull that microphone up. Keep it like a fist from your face. There you go.

There you go. All right.

So I first found out about you. I don't even remember what year it was, man. I remember I was with my family. I was in Salt Lake, and we were walking by this gallery, and there was this fucking dope painting, this huge painting of this native american guy with a buffalo skull that had a bullet hole in the head. And I was like, God damn. I was trying to figure out, where can I put that? Where could I put that fucking thing? And I snoozed. I snoozed and I lose.

But I didn't lose, you know? But that, dude, it's an interesting story. And I'll just tell you. Like, I had. I was shown with this other gallery for a long time that that same painting was, like, in the back room, and they weren't really giving me my props, which is what people will do if they just want to kind of keep you at a certain level.

So do they do that to keep your prices down?

They do that so you don't leave the gallery. So you don't get too big for the gallery, but they don't go off.

On your own like you did.

But, no, I'm loyal as fuck, dude. I'm still at the galleries that. That were cool. You know what I mean? If the people hook me up, I'm gonna hook them up. I'm gonna stay there, you know what I mean? But, like, I just wasn't getting my due at this other gallery, so I decided.

How long had you been painting for at the time?

I mean, professionally? I think about 16 years.

Wow.

But, you know, I've been doing it since I was a kid. Semi professional.

Just always. Yeah, always doing art. And when did you get. I want to say obsessed. That's the right word, right? When I was born with native american culture.

Yeah.

I mean, from the time you were.

Little, there was books in my grandparents house. Like, one of them was called fighting Indians of the west. And then there was, like, Russell and Remington books, the painters. And so I just look at these photos of, like, sitting Bull, and I was gonna say crazy horse, but no, photos of crazy horse were like, geronimo and shit like that. And I just saw a look in their eye, like a wild person, somebody who wasn't trapped by the system, you know what I mean? And as a little kid, I just knew that was. I knew that was better. I knew it was powerful. I just really loved that.

Just connected to it.

Yeah.

It is so fascinating that so many Native Americans who got captured and put into the reservation systems and then eventually, like, integrated with western culture, fucking hated it. But when western people, either when they were young, if they got kidnapped, or if they integrated with the tribes, like, a lot of trappers and a lot of people integrated with the tribes when they tried to bring them back to western society, they all wanted to leave. They're like, get me the fuck out of here. I don't want to do this. It's like we have this idea that cities, and especially back then, I mean, you're talking about cities in the 18 hundreds that somehow or another it was better. We always have the idea that progress in terms of, like, what's going on right now is better than what was going on before. We always have that in our head that we're doing it. It doesn't seem to ring true to the human spirit. There's something about human beings that they absolutely prefer that life.

Yeah, I mean, it's. Dude, you are more of a human being if you're living that life, if you're living a life in a city where you have to go do something you don't want to do, and you have to go hang out with people. You really. It's like your tribe is your tribe. You belong. There is a totally just simpler, better, more real way of life.

I think that thing that you just said, too, about your tribe, because too many people today, their tribe is not someone they chose. Their tribe is just people that they're stuck with because they're working with them. You know, if you're working, like, if you're, say, if you're a married person, you're a married couple and you both work, you're both with other people at least 8 hours a day. How long are you together? You're together for a few hours at night, and then you go to sleep. Yeah, you're tired.

It's not a quality way of life.

Well, it's not the people you chose. It's the people that your occupation chose or the opportunity for employment chose. And then you got to deal with these fucking schmucks in your office. I've been very fortunate. I never had to work in an office my whole life. I dodged office life, but I met a lot of people that I worked with. They were fucking annoying, man. Just. They just got in your way. They were always there. They're always fucking imposing their bullshit on you. And if you're a person that works in an office, especially if you have a bunch of bosses, the boss employee relationship is so often abused. It's such an abusive place to be where you have this person that gets to tell you what to do and make you sometimes work on weekends and make you, like, stay overtime and upset at you if you do x, Y, or z, which has no barrier, forces you to have the same ideological beliefs as them. Forces you to have the same political beliefs as them.

Crazy, dude. It reminds me of that movie office space.

Yes, exactly.

That's why I think our country is almost like, right now. Is that motherfucker Milton? You remember him? Who's like. They're always kind of pushing him to the side, seeing how much shit he'll put up with.

He's not the stapler guy, right? Yeah, that's Stephen root. That's my man.

Where he's just like, how much shit will these motherfuckers put up with? And that's your life in an office. And you're taught as a kid going to high school, like, if you do a good job here, you get to have an office job. That's what you're fucking shooting for.

Yeah. And you're working all day at school to try to do that. It's very complicated, man. Trying to get through the education aspect of your childhood and the indoctrination aspect, because that's what it is. It's indoctrinating you into believing that the only way that you can get by in this life is to become a part of this exact same system. So this is why school is structured like that. I mean, it's structured like that to teach you, but it's also structured like that, where you're sitting down in front of people all day long, learning things that you don't want to learn. Being forced to be immobile when you're a child and you're literally just a hummingbird of energy.

I know, those little desks.

Oh, it's so bad for you. Inside fluorescent lights. When I was a kid, terrible for you, the whole thing, bad for you. Bad feeling. I couldn't wait to run away from it. Every fiber of my being was opposed to it. But they had everyone convinced that if you didn't do this this way, you're gonna be a fucking loser. And that's what I was convinced. I was convinced I was gonna be a loser. So I was like, I gotta figure out a way to make money outside of regular jobs. Cause I'm a fucking loser. I can't. I can't do a regular job.

I gotta do a loser job.

I have to be a loser. I have to be a construction worker. I have to do something else. I have to do something that's outside the norm. Cause I just. I can't fucking do this. I can't sit down. I can't. I just. I have too much energy. I'm so bored. And it's also a terrible way to learn things. Like, the best way to learn things is things you enjoy, things you enjoy. And then if you learn that you do seem something that you enjoy and you really get good at it, you go, oh, I can apply that to everything. I can apply that to all things in life. But they don't teach you that. They teach you. You gotta fucking sit still. You gotta pay attention. You gotta memorize some nonsense. You gotta do some shit. Do these fucking calculations that make no sense to you. Like, you gotta. You gotta memorize these fucking people. A distorted version of the actual history, you know, which is almost always what they're teaching. Some weird distortion written by the winners. And if you don't do that, you're a loser. We have such a goofy society.

Yeah, that's. But, dude, we made it. And we fought.

We didn't. We were, we were born into it.

Well, I mean, we, like our ancestors made it, but I think they were. Maybe they were trying to do the right thing. Maybe they had good intentions, maybe. We don't know. But it turns out it's fucking stupid. Why do we keep doing it?

I think it's industry tricked everybody. Industry gave people jobs. Jobs are easy, you know, you need to feed people. You need to eat. You need to have a roof over your head. Okay, here's a job. This way I can get a roof over my head. Especially these people that came over, like my grandparents did. They came over from Italy. It's like these fucking. They didn't know what the hell was going on. They didn't know what was going on. You know, they were just like, what are they gonna do? I gotta feed myself. Get a job, get a job, get a job. So everybody gets a job. You gotta get a job. And everybody gets a. Get a job, get a job. You gotta eat. Because the reality of life then in the 1920s, everybody was fucking starving to death. People were starving. Dudes weighed 100 pounds. No one had food. It was a real possibility that you could starve to death. In America, people were, like, real poor. Real poor in, like, the 1920s. And so they all just did it, and now we're still doing it, and everyone's fucking miserable. And then everyone gets to.

Not everyone, obviously, you're not miserable. I'm not miserable.

Well, like, the people that have dodged.

It, the people, everyone stuck in that trap is miserable. They fucking hate their bosses. They hate the corporation. Can't wait to get out, talk shit about them, and.

And they're like, they're pissed off at people that got out of it. Oh, yeah.

You know, or people that are free of it, they don't like people that are free of it. I was having this conversation with my kids about podcasters and influencers. They were talking about this girl. She's making millions of dollars, and it's not. Here's how you have to think about that. It seems ridiculous that she's doing that, but she has a product, whatever that product is. She's making videos or TikToks or what have you. Someone's consuming that product. She's a business person. It's just the business is ridiculously easy to get into, and the product is nonsense. But the thing is.

But you gotta hand it to her for selling some bullshit.

She got lucky. She got born in the right time. I mean, if that lady was born in the 1970s, she'd be fucked. But she's not, you know? But then you also have to deal with, like, from a psychologist perspective, if you talk to psychologists about growing up in this time, it's one of the most challenging times because people are inundated by other people's lives. You're inundated by these people driving cars you couldn't imagine driving, living in these crazy homes, flashing money, wearing all these designer clothes. Everybody's got a filter on so their skin looks perfect. They look way more beautiful than they do in real life. And you're like, God damn, what is life? What do I have to aspire to? What am I looking for? What am I going to get out of this?

You don't have meaning. You don't have a sense of belonging, that you make a difference. That's a fucking empty, sad life, dude.

Yeah, it's a suck life. As opposed to the life that you're living, a life of an artist, like a life that, you know, there's you. You labor at these pieces that you make, and then people stand in front of them and go, ugh. Like, dude, that one that you made for me, the one with the guys got all the face paint, like a gray and black face paint on. Do you know the one I'm talking about?

Streamer? Yeah.

Yes, dude, that one. That one's in my. My library. When people walk in there, they go, oh, shit, I'm going, yeah, right. Look at that thing. You can stare at that painting. You can stare at it for hours. Like, whoa. And it's huge. There's so much going on in it.

That's what you have to do if you're gonna actually say, I'm an artist. It has to stop motherfuckers in their tracks and kind of wake them up a little bit, and then they can't even stop thinking about it the rest of the day because it's like, has.

Anybody ever done that to a Jackson Pollock?

I mean, not unless they're on a lot of drugs.

Maybe that's what I'm missing. Maybe it's like a dead concert.

I guarantee you the dead sounds way better if you're frying.

Oh, I bet if you're frying, it's amazing. I bet it's amazing. But can you find that photo? That painting? Jamie, that's one that I have.

I don't know if you're talking about soul catcher or dream catcher.

I have that one in my house, too. That one's dope, too. The one of those yet? That's. That's the one. And that thing is massive. That's a massive painting. It's huge.

Yeah.

And it's sitting in my library.

You can't really see all the detail on it that good because it's like a jpeg, and it's kind of. When you blow it up, you can't see as much.

Yeah. It's not that high resolution.

But, you know, when you look at the snake. The snake scales, dude.

Oh, the snake scales. But really, the thing that it gets me is always his face. Just the. The close up of his face with all the paint and the cracked paint. Fuck, I love that painting.

Yeah. You put your soul into it and it speaks. It's alive.

Yeah, it speaks. That one speaks. Yeah, that one speaks.

I mean, that's what art is, though. It's. It's speaking without words. It's communicating through this. I mean, it's the most archaic language that we have, like those cave drawings and stuff. Probably language wasn't that advanced when they were doing that, but they wanted to say something profound. You know what I mean? Like, they didn't have, like, books and poems and all that. They weren't advanced as far as writing stuff down.

Mm hmm.

So they'd write it down in a. Like a pictograph, and that's how they would communicate those deeper truths. And if you. If you look at those cave drawings, they're always. They have the same themes, you know? Have you looked at those? You know, a lot of them, yeah. Hunter.

Mm hmm.

And he's kind of with the animals. They're going along, and then there's, like, this big, tall motherfucker with a space helmet on her.

Yeah, there's a lot of. Explain that. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I don't know if. If I have to. You have to just look at the fucking thing. They explained it well.

I don't know what that means, you know? I really don't. I could. They could have been tripping balls, or it could be that when you're tripping balls, you meet those folks and they're real.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I was, like, the same with Grateful dead, bro.

Yeah. I've often thought about that, about UFO experiences, because I think maybe it's like a state of mind. There's a state of mind that you. You can achieve. And you could see them, you know? Not. Not if they're not there, clearly, but I think.

What, here? Yeah, then they're there.

But even if they're not, I mean, they're not there all the time. Right. The idea is if they're. If there's something that's traveling here, but.

Might also if it's interdimensional, though.

Yeah. That's what a lot of people think. It's so hard to know because it's like, it's such a multifaceted story. Right. Because it's laced with bullshit. Because people are bullshitters. Right? So everyone bullshits. They distort something to make it more interesting. They twist it up in their own mind. Even your own memory is absolutely terrible.

Because you always want to make yourself be the hero.

Yeah. Or if you're, like, self loathing, make yourself be a pc shit.

You're the villain.

Yeah. You could do that, too, but it's. It's also. It's just not reliable. Right. So then you have this shocking thing where you're not exactly sure what happened, and then your body starts filling in, or your mind starts filling in the blanks with, like, a lot of nonsense. And then you start telling it to people over and over again. And then after a while, your memory is of the memory of you telling it and barely even of the UFO experience itself. It's like you've told it this way for a certain amount of times, so you kind of keep repeating it.

Yeah. And, like, what is the motivation there? Is it now just a story you tell to get attention?

What makes you better? You're a special person.

Talk to me.

Yeah. We have to always be careful of anything that makes you special. Anything that makes you a special person. What makes you special? Are you. Did you really see Bigfoot? Or are you just fucking loser? You know what's going on here?

Are you fucking just even special because you saw Bigfoot? Or is he just special?

I think Bigfoot might be one of them things, too. I think maybe I struggled with the idea that everyone's lying. I really do. But I also struggle with the idea of this unknown bipedal hominid that's 8ft tall. Like, where is it shitting? What does it eat? Where's its bones? No one's seen it on a trail camera. How's that possible? But why would everybody be lying?

But maybe it's smart. Maybe it fucking digs toilets. I don't know.

No chance. Well, there's no chance it's so smart that it knows what a trail camera is. But it never made its own trail camera. No. No chance. No chance. It doesn't get photographed, has Wi fi. No. Too many people go into the backcountry. You know, all my friends that really go deep into the backcountry, like my friends, like Aaron Snyder. He, you know, he does these crazy backcountry hunts. He'll go, like, 26 miles in with everything on his back. And they hunt for weeks, weeks at a time. None of those guys have stories like that. None of them. Not one. Only the people that are nervous in the woods that don't understand the woods. You know, I saw a squirrel once, and for like a couple of seconds, I thought it was a wolf. Was it?

I thought Carl. Carl was a wolf.

When he's biting my leg 15,000 years ago, they turned that into Carl.

No, I think you're right.

But you know what I'm saying? And, like, there's bears that stand up on two legs. They do that all the time. And people see that in between the trees. You think you saw Bigfoot, but then I wonder about just the heightened state of mind that you're in when you're in the forest and you're scared because you've been in the woods before. And for people that haven't, I really recommend it because it's so humbling. There's something about just the undeniable vulnerability that you have and that you don't really mean that much. You might think you mean a lot, but you're just a part of this massive system that's going on, this massive system of life. And if you're in that and this is a new experience for you, and then you start freaking out, and then you think you saw something and your brain goes into overdrive when your mind starts pattern forming, you start looking for things. You've heard about Bigfoot. Now you start seeing Bigfoot. You know Bigfoot. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of that.

I'm sure a lot of people, dude, if they're getting drunk or maybe they're smoking a little weed or whatever. I mean, God.

But then again, maybe if you are drunk or smoking a little weed, maybe you can hit that spot. Maybe there's a frequency that you get hit where that motherfucker.

Really? Yeah, I mean, I think it's cool to believe in. Like, it's very, if it was real, it would be really cool.

Some people are all in and you can't even talk.

They needed a hobby. I sell some fucking t shirts, man.

There's a lot of that. Bigfoot, like finding Bigfoot. Yeah, that show that shows hilarious. Like, how do they pull that off.

For like, three or four, eight fucking.

Seasons that finding Bigfoot have? It might still be going.

They really wanted to.

You can just keep. There's a certain amount of slack jawed people, me included, that would just sit in front of that and just like.

This, like the river monster show and shit.

Show. That guy's fishing. Fishing's fun.

He's crazy. Oh, he just jumps down in the fucking swamp and brings up this big.

Demon, big tiger fish. That tiger fish, that crazy fish in Africa with the giant.

You're like, thinking, would I do that? When I jump over?

The fucking show ended and they re brought it. They brought it back. As the. The search continues.

We couldn't think of a better fucking title than the bullshit continues also.

So Bigfoot, finding Bigfoot. Further evidence.

Further evidence. You got none.

And that's evidence fucking way far out there.

It's basically printing money. As long as the people that are on the tv show don't get cocky and think they deserve more money.

Bigfoot, he's behind it.

You might have to bring in new.

They're never going to find me, motherfucker. Keep looking.

If anybody gets cocky, you might have to bring in new researchers. But then the researchers have to be accepted by the research community as a legitimate Bigfoot researcher. Yes, yes. We don't tolerate outsiders here, Greg.

That's a job title. I'm. No, I'm a legitimate Bigfoot researcher. I'm not like those bullshit Bigfoot researchers. Just researching bullshit.

You know what's interesting? Duncan and I went. We hung out with Bigfoot researchers. When I did that tv show for Sci-Fi called Joe Rogan questions everything. Yeah, we went and hung out with these Bigfoot people. And at the end you realize it's just like, oh, you guys just need a community. This is a community.

Just need some friends.

And it's a fun thing to think about. And the thing about, like, the Pacific Northwest, it's like the woods up there. If you haven't been, it's like a box of Q tips. Like, you can't see shit through that. You can't see 30ft, 40ft, you can't see anything. It's just fucking trees, like, everywhere.

And how much does mushrooms have to do with Bigfoot? Like, there's a lot of mushrooms growing up there in the woods, dude, you're gonna see a whole bunch of shit.

You can see elves.

Yeah, elves. Bigfoot. Like leprechauns. Santa Claus.

Santa Claus, yeah.

This big party. Why not take some shirts and hang out with Bigfoot and the elves and Santa Claus?

Then again, like, what is happening there? Are you seeing things that aren't there? Or are you seeing things that are there that you can't see under normal circumstances?

Well, dude, I think. I think it's the latter. I think it's. If they weren't there, you wouldn't be able to perceive them. And those substances just help you to perceive things because you're too busy over here all the time in that brainwave circuit that you're kind of trapped in right here, this reality tunnel, this stuff over here, there's blinders. You can't see it the only way. Like what happens when you take those substances? Your fucking pupils dial it. And then all of a sudden, dude, I remember the first time that I really took a whole bunch of shrooms when I was a kid. Me and a bunch of my friends, like, we just got ahold of some bunch of money. I'm not gonna get into that, how that happened, you know, long story short, we turned this money into a big bag of mushrooms and we all went down to the bowling alley and ate a whole bunch of them and just cruised around, you know, tried to go bowling that didn't work out and just shroomed out. And by the end of the night, we're looking at the money that we still had and everybody's were, you know, we had a bunch of weed.

We're passing around balls and shrooming out and we're looking at the money and we're looking at the buildings going. The fucking system has us trapped with this money. Let's tear it up.

Yeah, I wish I was there with you.

Yeah, we started tearing it up. Everybody, all my friends are listening to this, are gonna be like, he's. Yeah, dude, we were all there. Cuz there's probably like eight of us. All my.

You just tearing up your money?

Tearing up our money.

How much money you think it was?

We had a fuck ton of money because we just. I was a little shit when I was a kid, so I.

We don't need specifics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean. Right.

So anyway, it was enough money that. It was a stupid thing.

We were little kids. No, it's, you know, we paid for it later we got. We got busted. A whole bunch of shit happened after that. But long story short, we're ripping up ten dollar bills. Is the eighties. I. Oh, fuck. $10?

Yeah.

And the next day you'd put it back in your pocket. Weather like.

Yeah. What am I doing?

Was I doing. Yeah, but I think I was right.

Could have went to Jimmy John's with this.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's like but I think we tapped into something saying the system is bullshit, and if we didn't tap into that, you wouldn't make it to where you did today. Like, the fact that I saw that and I started doing all those, you know, drugs and crazy shit when I was young is what led me here. And I was getting a bunch of shit for it when I was a kid. And people are saying, what do you do in art? Because I wanted to do that since I was a kid. That's what I was wanting to do for my career. Like album covers, comic books, shit like that. If you're like, no, you're crazy. You're never going to fucking do anything with art. But I think just being, you know, like, a rebel, an outcast that helped me, that made it possible.

Well, it's the only way, you know, if you're a person that has, like, some crazy corporate job and you get locked into that thing, it's going to be very difficult for you to break out and become an artist.

Yeah. Although I actually did work for the government, for the feds for a while, which I was an artist. No, I was a graphics guy for OSHA, for the occupational Safety and Health Administration.

So what did you do?

I designed all the little pamphlets and.

Shit, like webs, don't put your hand in the machine.

Don't carry stuff like this. Don't do this. And then they'd have me edit, like, pictures of people that got electrocuted and got their faces blown off and say, try to make this a little less bloody.

Oh, God damn it, man.

And, yeah, that made me rethink, bro.

There'S so many videos on Instagram. People getting caught in machines.

You wanna know the worst one? The stupidest one that I ever saw was three dudes wanted to get high at work. They were asphalt layers, and they're like, let's jump in the asphalt. No, mixer. They fucking jumped in there to smoke a joint. All of them died, like, three dudes.

Oh, God damn.

Because asphalt is deadly.

Yeah.

Toxic.

If you breathe it, it's terrible for you. Oh, my God.

But, I mean, I had. I had to kind of get into the system before I started trying to do tattoos. And because I had young kids and stuff, I had to. And it's hard to get into the art business, so I had to try to do that right. But then 911 came along, and we lost our contract because all the money went to military shit. And so I had to just make another plan. I tried to tattoo for a while that didn't work. Out and then got into fine art from there.

How did you get into tattooing? How do you even practice that? Do you practice on, like, pig skin?

No practice on myself. But a friend of mine actually from big deluxe tattoo, best shop in Salt Lake and also Anthony began. What's up, Anthony? Didn't forget you, but yeah, so I worked at big deluxe for a while. My friend Rich runs that shop and he's like just a total gangster of tattooing and runs just a real tight ship. I apprenticed there for a while. Accidentally kicked my manager in the face and got fired.

How'd you do that?

Well, I was, there's a bar next door that we always would go to after work. And I was over there just drunk as fuck. And there's some dude in there that, like, was trying to fight me or something. He's like, I need to kick your ass. And so I was like, all right, go outside. I'm gonna finish my beer. I'll be out there in a minute. And I was training lots of muay Thai at the time, so I was, you know, I was ready to, like, whatever. And so I walk out the door and my friend's holding the door open. And I, where's this dude that is trying to kick my ass? And he's like, right here, motherfucker. He takes a swing at me. Whoo. And I barely ducked it. Went down the sidewalk. I was like, all right, let's go. And I thought, as soon as he gets within reigns, I'm just gonna hit him with that high kick, right? And so he gets within reigns. I throw up the high kick and I spin around.

And you miss. And you hit your boss because he.

Was going, break it up. I didn't even see him.

Oh no.

He was running out of the shop because he saw us going by the sidewalk, the windows right there. He's like, oh, Greg, come on. And he goes like this. Seriously, just hands out.

So you went full rotation on the high kick. Good.

Good job. Wasn't good for one.

Good for him.

It would have been good. Yeah.

Good technique.

I mean, like I said, I got, I got to train some good muay Thai in Utah. There was a couple good schools there when I was young.

We're a tall dude too, you know, good long kicks.

Yeah. So that was my thing. If I could get away, if I can hit you with a kick, say good night.

So he fired you for that?

Well, I knocked his teeth out and stood.

Yeah, but you didn't do it on purpose.

They wouldn't believe me.

Oh, come on. Well, I thought you were trying to hit him instead of hitting the other guy.

Yeah, they probably still do. I didn't fucking do it, Mike, but.

Well, how hammered were you, though?

Shit, hammered. So fucking hammered I couldn't even see. That's why I was like, I'm just gonna throw out the long kick and take him out, you know? But then I thought. Cause the dude's still standing there like juggernaut. And I thought I hit him with my best kick. So I'm like, this dude has to go.

Oh, no.

So then I'm like, all right, judo for you. I hip tossed him onto the concrete, and I started to. You know that when you have, like, a scarf hold and with your leg, though. So I was pushing out the hip, getting ready to break his shoulder, and his fucking girlfriend kicked me in the face because she was watching the fight.

That's problem with the ground game in the street, bro.

Always, dude. And so he scurries away, and I ran over and grabbed, and I was like, no, you don't put on a car. Dropping elbows on him. And then she wasn't done yet. This dude's girlfriend was badass. She fish hooked me, fucking ripped up my cheek, and somehow I got her fucking finger out of my mouth. And then I was like, I'm just gonna kill this motherfucker now. He's gonna be no good to you at all. And then just, you know, hit him with a bunch of knees and.

Yeah. Damn. Bar fights are stupid.

That was long, long time ago. Like, I was.

Well, you know, it all worked out.

Yeah.

Isn't it funny how those doors close? Doors close in your life. New door opens.

Well, I called. I called up the next day, and I was like, dude, I'm gonna be a little late. And rich is like, no, you're gonna be a little fired, motherfucker. You kicked Mike in the face. Oh, no, I did not.

I didn't always work. Oh, no.

So. But every, you know, everybody's laughing about it now. I'm sure those guys will get a kick out of seeing this. They'll be like, over.

Dude, street fights are so stupid, you know? Please, folks, if you listen, don't do it. Don't do it.

All could have died.

Definitely died. And even the person who kills you, they wish they didn't do it. Yeah, don't do it.

No, I know people that have accidentally killed, killed people in street fights and stuff.

There's a guy who is a pedophile who just got caught the other day. There's a bunch of these videos where these guys, they, they, like, bait pedophiles. Like, they bait them on social media.

Like the old show, to catch predator.

To catch predator? Yeah. There's a bunch of guys doing that on YouTube, right? And this one guy got caught. I only watched the clip of the guy getting punched. And some guy walks up to him. I think the dude is wearing a mask and he is. He said something like, I got kids, motherfucker. And he sucker punched this dude in the head. And the dude, he's an old guy too, and he falls. And you hear that bang of his head bouncing off the sidewalk. I'm like, oh my God, that guy's fucked. And I'm pretty sure he's dead. I'm pretty sure he died, which happens.

I tried to follow up to, I don't know.

Yeah, you heard about it too, right? Yeah. So this is it.

I'm not gonna show it on.

So show real quick.

I don't know if we can.

Oh, it's illegal.

I don't. It's not our content.

Oh, okay, well, don't show it on the screen then. There. Right there. Bam, he's dead. See that dude bounces his head off and the other guy runs off, but the sound of that guy's head hitting the concrete is just horrible. And that's how people die.

Well, you people don't realize how strong they are if they fucking hit someone. You're a full grown man, you know?

Did you google it? Whether or not he's dead?

This is the follow up right here.

That's a video, though. Did you google. I mean, like, I read a story that said he died in the hospital.

I'll check, I guess.

How long ago is this?

Five days ago.

Yeah, I think I read a story much more recently that he died in the hospital. I don't know if that's true though, because, you know, like, everything is just for clicks now. Like, Bill Maher just pointed this up, that there was an article that said there's a 300% rise in measles in the United States. Do you know how many cases that is? 35.

300. From nothing?

Yeah.

Well, that is like, I don't know anybody with measles. I don't think I've ever met anyone with measles.

It's very rare these days, you know, but the fact that they wrote that in an article, a 300% rise in measles and everybody goes into a hot panic and then you find, like back.

In the day, maybe in the fucking fifties or something, wouldn't they have jumped on that shit. If it was in. In the newspaper and we found out about it. You lie, motherfucker. There's just so many people bullshitting these days, and we let them get away.

With it, and they've been bullshitting since the beginning. That's how weed is still illegal. Weed is still illegal because of William Randolph Hearst, who ran Hearst publications. And William Randolph Hearst is the guy who started printing those stories in the paper and about marijuana. You know, that was. Marijuana was a name for wild mexican tobacco. It was a slang for a wild mexican tobacco. Cannabis was, like, well, well known. And so they started saying it was a new drug called marijuana, and it was causing Mexicans and black guys to.

Rape white because they would use it after work. Because they weren't drinking.

No, it wasn't real. They were. They were calling it that because they were trying to get cancer.

No, but I'm saying they would actually get high.

They were trying.

They weren't doing anything.

They were trying to get marijuana to be illegal because they wanted hemp out of business for paper. That's what it was for.

Nylon, right?

Yes, nylon. Dupont had come up with the patent for nylon. And then there was also paper mills, like William Randolph Hearst owned forests that they would cut down to make trees. See, he owned paper mills as well. And hemp paper was a superior paper. And so when they came out with the decorticator, which is a machine that was much better at processing hemp fiber, and they had it in popular mechanics magazine. So they started this campaign against hemp by creating this boogeyman of a drug called marijuana that made people crazy.

It's just so much money.

So that was the news? Yeah. So that's the newspapers in the thirties, man. So they've been doing this shit forever. They've been doing the same fucking thing forever.

I wonder if there was ever a time when the media and the information was, like, working for us, like the. You know what I mean?

I think there's been people that have been working for us, but there's always been stories that were, like, heavily influenced by the intelligence community and by, you know, special interest groups. And that's always been the case, man. Journalists have always been on the take. A certain percentage of them. Yeah, there's a certain percentage of journalists that are just bullshit.

They're not, because all they are is people.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's it.

All they are. And they're people doing a job. Like, that's their job. They work at this place that says, hey, I want you to concoct this fucking story and they have to do it.

It's the same thing as like, dude, I think the whole fucking problem with the government is lobbyists. When I was a little kid, and I was super patriotic, like, as a little kid, and I love the constitution. I think it's just, it's so cool. The checks and balances and the way the thing is supposed to work is amazing. Awesome. But then I heard about the lobbyists, and I remember as a, probably a ten or twelve year old kid going, what? And the teacher would say, yeah, yeah, it's their job to go and try to influence our senators. I'm like, that don't seem right. And what do they do? They take them to lunch and they buy them shit to fucking convince them to make okay, get those motherfuckers out of there and then we're good. Because then all they got to do is answer to me and I'm the one paying them. They're trying to get extra fucking money. That's the same thing as if I was like, you know, working for a gallery and then selling art on the side or some shit.

You can't do that.

I mean, you could, and you know what happens?

What?

Like, and, like, customers will come up to you and say, I saw your shit at a gallery and I want to buy it directly from you. And so then it's on you.

Is that, do you have a deal, like, with a gallery where, like, if you have your stuff up in the gallery, that they have to sell your stuff only through that gallery?

I mean, it, does it vary? Well, yeah, because sometimes you have to sign an exclusive and then some galleries will front you a bunch of money. So every deal is different. But right now I do, I don't sign exclusive deals. I just say, you know, you show my stuff, I still sell a ton on my own. On my own.

But you do that now because you're established.

Yeah, but if they see it in the gallery and they come to me and they say, we saw it in the gallery, if only there, then I'll try to get the sale to go through the gallery to actually still cut them in.

Yeah.

Cause that's not really right.

Right. That's right. That's the right way to do it because they saw it in the gallery. That's the whole benefit of the working relationship of you being in a gallery. I mean, that's how I found you.

Gallery is always surprised when you do it, but who, when you bought the painting, you buy it from me. You had to go through the gallery.

Right.

But I could have said, bro, fuck the gallery. Just buy from me.

Yeah, but that wouldn't be cool.

Right? Exactly.

Right. In that sense, I understand what you're saying.

Yeah.

But is there a situation with some artists where they have their pieces up in a gallery and they're not even allowed to be commissioned to make a piece outside of the gallery?

I think if they have an exclusive contract and they've fronted you money, and if you come to them and say, hey, I haven't sold anything, can you front me some more money? And they're going to take care of you?

Okay, so it's the fronting, the money.

Is the issue, or that hardly ever happens.

So for the most part, like, say, if I went into a gallery and I saw some piece and it was really dope, and connect immediately to the artist, and I get her email and I contact her and I said, hey, I really love this. I'm thinking of something along this theme. Can I contract you to do something like that? Can I commission you to do something like that? And they say, yes. Would she still have to go through the gallery, you think?

What do you think the right thing to do is, though, for the artist?

I think the right thing if you find out about it through the gallery, is probably go through the gallery. Yeah, that makes sense.

Then, like, the gallery knows you're loyal.

Yeah. Also, galleries are dope.

Yeah.

We want to keep them open, you know, like, I fucking love going to galleries. I just. I love seeing all the different. I just love different people's expressions, you know, whether it's through music or through painting or illustration or sculpture, whatever it is. I'm just interested in the things people create. And so if there's a place we can go and it's all just shit that people created, like, I'm all in.

Yeah.

I love galleries.

We need more of that.

Yes, we need more of that. We need more encouraging people to create things. You know, it's a very valuable commodity that's seen as frivolous until it's not. It's seen as no big deal until it's worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's a very strange world.

It is. But, like, I mean, when you think about it, dude, it's like what we were talking about earlier, how this system is so much bullshit and it's so dry and fucking empty and there's just nothing to it, but they have to slot you in and make you fucking toe the line and your life's so fucking boring and shit. But if you get into art. Whatever art it is, whether it's your music, at least you have a solace of some kind that you can come home to. So I. What I aspired to do was to provide powerful stuff that people that, like, they're out there doing crazy shit all day, like you doing stuff that's affecting the world. Like, they're. They got a bunch of stuff on their mind all the time, but just for 1 minute, they look at that painting and they're like, now I know why I remember why I'm doing all this. It's for the spirit. It's for the essence of life. It's to try to make life better for all of us.

Yeah.

You know, that's what art is really supposed to do, is try to communicate to you that, like, you do matter. We all matter. We all matter together. And we're not actually separate. Because if you can relate to this and I can relate to this, maybe we can forget about all the bullshit that they're trying to make us fight about.

Yeah.

And just fucking check out a show.

Yeah, absolutely. We matter to each other.

Yeah.

That's what's really important. Even if you think you don't matter in the great scheme of things, like, when people get, like, real morose and they start thinking about life as being futile and there's no reason why go on. And generally, that's people that are disconnected from other people. They don't have anybody, like, real close that they can hang out with, that they love.

Yeah.

You know? And people need that in life. It's. You need. You need a tribe.

Yeah.

You do. We're tribal people. You need a tribe. Like, your family should be your tribe, your friends should be your tribe. You know, you need groups of people, and that's a. That's a wonderful life. That's a joy filled life. If you can have a life filled with people that you enjoy hanging out with.

Yeah.

If you could do it right.

Yeah. And those. Those people that think that they don't matter, that they are alone, you know, don't underestimate that, like, the potential you have to actually affect people's lives.

Sure. You could turn it around, too.

Yeah.

How you feel right now is horrible. And as dark as it seems, that's not how you're gonna feel always. You just have to trust in this process, and you got to do something. It was a funny little Instagram clip that I put on my stories the other day. This lady was talking about how she feels down, and then someone asked her, did you get enough sleep nope. Have you been exercising? Nope. Have you been eating well? Nope. Have you gone outside? Nope. Have you stayed off your phone? Nope. Okay.

Why should you feel good?

Exactly. But that's our.

That's like saying, I'm broke. Did you go to work? Did you fucking save your money?

Right? Do you have people in your life that you love? Do you have a thing that you do that you love? If you don't have those things, you're gonna have a rough time of it. You know, that's what we're here for. We're here for doing things that we love or that are satisfying and being with people that we love. And if you don't have those things, you're in a tough spot. And, you know, the cold, hard truth is, for a lot of people, you have to be someone worthy of other people's appreciation, too. Like, what have you done? Who are you? What's your character like? What do you like when you talk to people? Are you nice? Are you fun? Are you good to be around? Do you complain a lot? You know, you want the world to be better, but you complain all the time. You're just a fucking Debbie downer. Is that what you are? Because guess what? Nobody wants to be around you, and you're gonna be depressed now. You're making people feel like shit. You got to get out of that whatever mindset spiral you're in and come up with a better way to interface with humanity.

Yeah. Because it's. It's all about perspective, dude.

You know?

Like, you could. I was walking around Austin earlier today. I've never been here before. I was just taking a walk.

This is your first trip?

Yeah. I like. I don't. I go to, like, art towns for shows. It's all about business. When I travel, I'm just doing shows and going home and making more paintings, but just walking around a little bit down here, I was just like, God, this really. I can look around and just see how fucking cool this place is and how all these people built all this stuff, and they're building it, and everybody's doing something here, and I'm part of it, and I get to just sit here and chill and, like, take it all in and go, wow, fuck. I'm in this new city they're building. They've got cranes on the tops of all the buildings. The restaurants look all vital, and I love to see that. And I'm like, dude, all these people have good perspective.

Not all of them.

Well, I mean, like, more. More.

It's a good vibe, right? Overall, good vibe of the city, right?

Yeah. I didn't know what to expect, but I was, like, impressed. I was like, this place seems pretty cool. And I realize that's my perspective. I'm looking for the good.

Mm hmm.

Right. But somebody else might be in the same exact spot, and they would only notice the weird homeless dude over there. Like, they hope that he doesn't come over here and ask him for some money, or they're stressing out about their bills or whatever it is. And I'm just sitting here thinking, oh, fuck perspective. Look at how fucking cool life is. Because it really is, dude. I think we've all gotten so fucked up with by these little cell phones that have kind of captured us that we kind of forget. Just go outside.

Yeah. You know, go outside and experience some things. It's just hard to do when you're stuck. If you're at home and you're just, like, staring at your phone, it's hard to, like, put it down and start moving. It's hard, but you really have to. It's a trap. It's trying to get us to get sucked into the machine, kids. And it's coming. And if you think it's difficult to resist now, just wait. Yeah, just wait.

But just don't let your tolerance get all low. Like, don't. Just keep fucking with it. Like, right now, go camping. Yeah, right now, go learn to ride a horse.

I don't know that, you know, you get hurt.

I got some crazy horse stories.

I know a lot of people have some crazy.

I went down to the.

I don't think they like to be ridden.

No. Check this out, dude. I'll tell you something fun. I would. I went down on a photo shoot to the Navajo reservation years ago, like, probably about five or six, maybe seven years ago. And the Apaches and the Navajos were kind of doing a peace ceremony, and I was down there with, like, this native photographer and just a couple friends. We were all hanging out like Navajos, and. And we ran into this Navajo family. There's this. This dude that just got back from the military and, like, his little brother and his little sister. And we're all just hanging out, like, because I just take pictures to get ideas for paintings and meet people and just go do stuff and go to reservation. That's what gives me the ideas. And so everybody's riding horses, and I haven't ridden a horse since I was a little kid in Montana, but I learned how I knew. I rode horses every day as a little kid, like, ten years old. Or something. We'd ride them to town. And so all these Indians are out there riding their horses, and I want to fit in. I was like, oh, jump up on one of these horses.

And I jump up on one of the trail horses that's been out on the trail ride all day. And I have these long ass legs. Everyone else is, like, shorter than me, so the stirrups aren't long enough for me. So I jump up on there, and I'm all kind of off balance. And the horse gets weirded out and just fucking takes off at a full run across the desert. Ran for, like a mile, dude. And I'm shitting. Like, it's bucking me. And it's like, I thought about jumping off and everything.

Oh, my God.

And luckily, I had been training jujitsu at the time, so I had to, like, the strong jujitsu grip that you get, right? I grab the saddle horn and just hold on to it. I'm like, I'm not jumping. I'm gonna wear this motherfucker out. And he ran for about a week.

Reins. You didn't have a hole.

I lost the reins.

Oh, my God.

He was running, dude. I wasn't ready for it. He just.

Oh, my God.

Took off. But I didn't fall off. I didn't jump off.

Holy shit.

And he finally got tired, and I turned him around and walked him back to where we were all hanging out.

Oh, my God.

And everyone's like, we thought we were gonna be peeling you off the prairie. And my horse, like, puts his head down and taps the ground. I said, I made this fucker tap.

Isn't it interesting that you can break horses? They get wild horses and they can break them. Yeah, they break them and get them to the point where they can ride them. It's very strange. It's a strange animal like you.

Yeah, I mean, dude, horses are amazing. And then I got to go down to a ranch and in New Mexico and learned to ride a bunch a few years ago, and I got good enough where I was running and controlling the horse.

It's kind of like a version, a real version of Avatar. When they hop on those dragons and they have to, like, merge with them.

They are exactly fucking like that.

It is like that, right?

Exactly.

Because this is, like, thing that's way more powerful than you, but for some weird reason, you guys sync up together.

And if it likes you, yeah, it will, like, stomp out rattlesnakes for you. And if it doesn't like you, it'll go over to the rocks and.

Yeah. Chuck, y'all. Fuck off, bitch. Yeah. You have to have a good relationship with that animal.

Yeah.

And it's a. It has to be a real relationship. You can't be out of fear that animals love you.

Yeah. And you have to love it. It's like dogs.

Yep. Exactly, exactly.

They called them sacred dogs.

Mmm.

The Lakota did.

But, yeah, a dog you ride. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dogs and humans have very strange relationships. Very strange. You know, there's. There's a. Some sort of. A sinking of the minds that's. It's not as simple as the dog recognizes that he gets food from you. No, no, no. This is like this weird love.

Yeah.

You know?

Well, did you ever see that show that was about how humans and canines, like, evolved together?

Yeah, I have seen it. Yeah, dude.

I mean, I have two dogs. Like, they're part husky, part Akita.

They're like, pull up top mic.

They're like the primal breed, so they kind of. They look like wolves. They kind of act like that.

Yeah.

Like, dude, those dogs are my best friends, you know?

Yeah.

They pull. We go around the neighborhood, they pull me on my skateboard, and I know that they know that I'm their friend, right. And it's like, I know if, like, if I'm having a bad day or if I'm just, like, stressed out or something and I do this or something, they'll come right up to you. Like, what's wrong, bro?

I was in the gym today stretching out, and I was doing this crazy back stretch, and it's kind of painful. So I'm like. And next thing you know, Marshall's face is, like, right there kissing me. I'm like, it's all good, dude. I'm just stretching.

And he's like, did that stretch hurt?

You just wanted to make sure I'm okay. It's just funny. It's funny. They just sync up to you. They just. There's something about whatever the. That relationship is, it's so unique to dogs. It's so different than any other animal.

Yeah.

You know? Well, it's concerned about you. Like, other animals, I don't think are concerned about you. Like, your cat's not that concerned about you.

Face off. If you die instantly, if you, like.

You break your leg, your cat's gonna go, oh, this guy's fucking loud. Let me go.

Fucking snap. Really?

Yeah. The other day we were working out in the gym with all the comedians, and Marshall was with us, and I started kicking the bag, and he starts barking, he starts jumping up and down and barking because he thinks, like, some shit's going down. Is that bag fucking with you? Like, what's happening here?

I know.

That's hilarious. Like, all the other stuff that we did, we did all these kettlebell workouts. We pushed the sled. That was all fine, but once I started hitting the bag, he's like, what the fuck is going on?

They can tell the difference, dude. They could tell the difference between, like, actual violence.

Yeah, yeah. They understand what violence is.

Yeah.

It's weird.

It is, dude.

It's like, how does he. Why is that different to him than me lifting a thing or me grunting or pushing a sled? Like, what? I don't understand.

Well, that's totally why we kept him around, cuz.

Yeah.

We're like, as soon as shit starts to go down, you jump in.

Yeah.

I'm gonna get my knife.

Yeah.

Take care of you. Hit them low. I'll hit them high.

They know that they're with you. Yeah. That you like. That happens with people, you know, if they get in some sort of a school, like brothers and sisters get in fights together, the dog fucking tries to jump in.

Yeah.

Happens all the time.

Yeah.

You know, if two girls are beating the shit out of each other and.

A dog jumps at a party. Dude, how many times have you seen that? Just pushing and shoved. The pit bulls got your arm.

Oh, no. And then you got nerve damage now. Just like playing fucking alligator.

Yeah, dude, those fucking things.

Yeah. They don't understand that either.

Yeah.

Especially dudes. They get a little too loud when they're playing.

Yeah.

The dogs, like, oh, some shit's going.

The dog. You think so?

Yeah.

Your house? Yeah, my house.

Yeah.

And I'm not drunk.

They don't get the rules. They don't get the rules of engagement. That thing in the avatar is so wild when they sync up and they. They link their. Their tails to the. Their hair thing.

Yeah. His, like, ponytail.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's really is kind of what happens with a horse.

Well, everything is kind of, you know, based on something, you know, like fiction stuff. You get that idea from somewhere.

Well, haven't people said that avatars like Pocahontas in space?

I thought they said it's like dances with wolves from space. And I think me off well because my. My mentor, a friend of mine, wrote dancers with wolves.

Oh, really?

He's, like, one of my best influences that guided me in my career. Michael Blake. He's a bro, dude. It wasn't about they say, oh, the white savior story. He's coming to save the Indians. That's some bullshit. I'm like, did you watch the fucking movie? Who saved who? The white guy didn't save the Indians. They saved him there. He learned from the Indians how to be a good person. There's nothing wrong with that fucking story.

I barely remember that movie. I remember it was really good, but I barely remember it. Well, he told that microphone.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Moves around.

Yeah, he told me that he came up with that idea by. He heard a story where supply train, a wagon train pulled up to a, like, an abandoned camp, a civil or not civil war, like an army camp. He heard that story and he thought, well, what would I do if I was that guy? Would I just go back to the base? To the army base, or would I stay there and try to figure out what happened? And he said he just came up with the whole thing based on putting himself there in his imagination. Right, right. And he's just such a cool motherfucker, dude. Like, I remember I was saying, you know, this is years ago. I said, I want to be the next Howard Turpenny, which is like, the big western artist. He's like, no, dude, don't be the next anything. Be the first Greg Overton. Just be you.

Yeah.

You know, and hearing that, like, the. That movie was a big influence on me, because when I saw that and got a Howard Turpin book, that's what really got me back into western art, because as a. As a teenager, I was doing all the punk art. Like, I did album covers for a lot of the bands from Salt Lake and was trying to draw comic books and shit like that. But as soon as I saw that movie and got the Howard Turpin book, that's what really brought me back to the native american stuff. And I was like, this is what I'm gonna do.

I think. What's so interesting about the Native Americans, one of the things that's interesting, I should say about the native american stuff is that we didn't really understand what was even happening until the 20th century. And now the 21st century. We didn't really have an understanding of, like, how their cultures worked and how they interacted with each other. The way it was depicted in mainstream media was always cowboy and indian movies. It was like this very crude, kind of simplistic version of what they. We didn't really understand, you know, much about native american culture until people started writing these, like, empire of the summer moon, some of these amazing books where you get a real understanding of, like, black elk speaks like, those kind of things you actually hear from the people that live that life. Like, what was that like? Because our version of it was all just stupid movies. John Wayne movies and shit. And then Clint Eastwood took it to another level, like, especially the outlaw Josie Wales.

Fuck, yeah.

Yeah. When he meets with that comanche guy and ten Bears. Yeah. And him and ten bears have this conversation about what's gonna go down.

Yeah. You know, your words have iron words of.

Words of death. Yeah, that's a heavy scene.

Will Sampson, that's like, yeah, that was one of the best movies ever, dude.

That's a great fucking movie. That's a great fucking movie.

Yeah.

That's a fun movie.

But that's. That's, like the real Comanche, Texas Ranger, because he was a Texas Ranger type dude. You know what I mean? Those are. Those are both just awesome icons of the west. We should respect both of those.

Yeah.

Because they. Neither one of them were, like, a hero or a villain, purely. I mean, the Comanche, they were a fucking empire. They were. They were out for conquest. They were colonizing the fuck out. They took all the horses, and they're like, fuck you, we're taking it.

Yeah. They committed raids on other native american tribes all the time. I mean, they were. They were ruthless. I mean, we've talked about this before with just the name sue. That wasn't their name then. That was the name for enemy.

Yeah.

Their name was the Lakota people. That's who they called themselves. But everybody else called the enemy. They're fucking everybody up. There was no unity amongst native american tribes. I mean, it was really no different than the interactions that we have with other countries. Like, sometimes you're connected to them and you're allies, and sometimes you're at war, and sometimes it's the same groups of people that you used to be allies and now you're at war, or used to be at war, and now you're allies, like United States and Japan. Perfect example. You know? I mean, that's probably one of the best examples in modern times.

Yeah.

We literally dropped indiscriminate nuclear bombs on two other cities, and now we buy their cars.

I don't imagine if you didn't. One of your friends. Sorry I nuked your fucking house, bro. Let's go see a movie years ago.

Dude, let it go.

Nuke your fucking house. Come on.

Let it go.

You wouldn't stop fighting.

Broken, apparently. They're like, dude, you didn't get our memo? We were gonna stop fighting. You guys just wanted to try out your fucking bomb.

Yeah. Use one to flex, and you use one to flex your fucking nuke power, and you still want to go to vacation in fucking Europe, bitch.

Imagine seeing the first nuke go off and realize that nothing's ever gonna be the same again when they drop that first nuke in a city just like, oh, my God, what have you done? Done? What have you done? And what precedent have you set? It's really, truly amazing that we haven't done it since then.

Yeah. That's what makes you believe in the aliens and multi dimensional beings and shit.

Really? That, isn't it just mutually assert destruction as well?

No, no, I'm saying, like, when humanity got all the nuclear bombs and shit, that's when you start to see all the sightings and stuff. So that that's why it kind of makes sense that they'd be like, oh, what are you doing? We can't let you blow up your whole fucking planet before you even evolve to your first level. Because for all we know, we're still white belts.

Right? Well, leaf cutter ants have no idea that you have a car. They have no idea. They have no idea what a bitcoin is. Yeah, they have no idea, you know what 4g is. They don't know shit.

And they're about cutting leaves and being.

Right there, but they're around it all the time. It's very possible that there's some shit like that in other dimensions that are equally bizarre, that we just. We are not connected to all the time. And they might be here all the time. And if that's the case, then it makes sense that they would start showing up when we were in the middle of dropping nukes on each other. They'd be like, hey, hey, hey, hey.

It'd be like when your parents heard you just beating the shit out of each other in the other room. They'd come in there like, all right, fucking settle down.

Settle down, boys.

You're gonna fuck up the drywall now.

Yeah, you guys are crashing into fucking tvs and shit. Like, hey, that's all it is.

We're just there, dumb kids in the next room making a bunch of noise.

Because maybe they needed to let us know. Like, hey, there's some. There's some other folks here. And they're way more advanced and settled the fuck down.

And we're trying to bring you along. Just, you know, the problem is with.

All that stuff is it's so hard to know what's true and what's bullshit. Just like the Bigfoot thing. It's so hard to. Well, the Bigfoot thing is way easier, right? But the UFO thing, there's way more evidence. It's so hard to know what's bullshit. This is so hard. It's so hard to know who's telling the truth and who's lying. It's so hard to know what involvement the government has in terms of like how many of these things are drones. You know, you're hearing now that a lot of these people that believe that these things are flying around, they think that what we're dealing with is some sort of a government drone. And that a lot of this off world craft talk is really just misinformation so that they don't have to take accountability for having some crazy thing that China doesn't have, or maybe China has that we don't have. And then what they want to lie about it, you know, try to develop whatever the fuck they have.

Yeah. And when you find out what they're really doing, then it's like, okay, now this makes sense. Now that makes sense because you're having to fucking do all this to develop that.

Well, you know, there's a whole conservation about the invention of the transistor because the transistor came about right after Roswell. And there's a company called Bell Labs. And Bell Labs was, I believe they were the people that invented the transistor. And there was a military base right outside of Bell Labs. And they had always said that military base was to protect New York City. But it's pretty far from New York City. Like if you wanted to protect New York City, put a base a lot closer. You wouldn't put it so far away where it would take them like 40 minutes to fly there. But Bell Labs is a wild place. And that was one of the main focal points of conspiracy theorists when they were talking about back engineering stuff from crashed UFO's was fiber optics and transistors. And that they all came about very shortly after Roswell. People don't exactly know how they figured those out.

They probably. Those were probably the like the most basic things that they recovered. So they are the easiest to figure out. So that's why we had them first. And there's like, it's just like those fucking playstations. They release a better one every few years. Maybe they have PlayStation five in 95, but they're still giving us PlayStation one because they want to sell all five.

Well, they can't just give us a time machine, they have to give us a spaceship. 1st. First of all, you got to figure out travel you more on.

And we won't even need a fucking spaceship once we got a time machine.

Yeah, then we'll give you the big bang machine. That takes time. You got to get to a higher level civilization. Have you heard of a Dyson sphere? Do you know what a Dyson sphere is?

I've heard of it. What is it? I don't know.

Well, it's a massive structure that some astronomers believe could indicate highly advanced intelligent life somewhere in the universe. They've never been discovered, but they've been theorized that these. There was this article that I was reading yesterday about it. If you see if you can find.

It so it can, like, tell you where it would be.

They think they're massive structures that are, like, literally like, a structure the size of a solar system.

And somebody made that, and those fucking things are out there.

Well, this was. This is just theorized, right when they were talking about the highest potential level of technological ability that you could get to. Yeah. I mean, imagine if you got to a place where you had a self contained solar system that's completely controlled by these intelligent beings, but that's immune to all of the hazards.

What if we're in that motherfucker?

We might be.

That's the simulation.

Might be. We might be.

Thanos is like a type two civilization.

One that can directly harness, harvest, rather, the energy of its star using a Dyson sphere or something similar.

So it, like, is solar powered, basically.

Well, I don't know what the fuck it is. I mean, I think it's totally theoretical. There's no real versions of them that are out there. But the idea is that if technological proficiency and innovation continues at the level that it is now for millions of years, what does it get to?

But you know what? It's probably gonna get weirder than that, because the shit you can imagine, like, remember the eighties when you fucking had a walk, man.

Right?

Whoa. What are they gonna have in a few years?

Right.

I'll be able to. You know, you probably thought it was still gonna be a cassette tape, like when you watch the fifth element or blade Runner.

Mm hmm.

They're still using fucking telephones. They didn't even think of cell phones.

Right.

But that's our most obvious thing that we have right now.

Star Trek. They had a walkie talkie.

Yeah.

Kirk out.

Right. Because you're. You're still, like, relating it from, like, 1960.

The military of space.

Yeah.

Right. Exactly, dude. That's five.

So it's going to fucking God of war.

Yeah. It's going to keep going. That's what I think artificial intelligence is. I think. And this is a. I don't really think this. This is just a thought. Maybe the universe is God, and maybe the way God is created is through intelligent life, that intelligent life creates a far superior version of itself in artificial intelligence, and that creates a far better version of itself infinitely. They just keep making better versions of itself as it has more of an understanding and more capacity, and it grows and it makes better versions of itself. It's eventually going to get to God like powers. The power to create universes, the power to create solar systems, the power to stop time, reverse time, the power to traverse immense distances instantaneously. It'll just have. It'll have capabilities that we could only imagine. We could always just. We could just imagine if. And it can do that.

Yeah.

I mean, if we look at how we're living right now in comparison to how people were living when they were making those. Those cave paintings, like, wow.

Yeah.

Insane paintings.

To fucking.

It's not gonna stop right here.

Yeah, but what's the things they can do? The 3d printing. 3d printing. That's fucking crazy.

No, it's insane.

I mean.

Well, you know, that's what they think the spaceships are made out of now.

Yeah.

Like when Bob Lazar was first examining. If he's telling the truth, when Bob Lazar was first examining the spaceships, the thing that blew him away was. There's no. It didn't make any sense. Like, how could one even make something like this? Well, now that we know there's 3d printers and you could make something like that.

Yeah, you could.

I mean, I don't think you could make it that scale yet, but if you had enough of a capability, you had machines that could do it.

Yeah. I mean, if we thought of it.

Yeah.

And we're doing it, and they're fucking, right. 60 million light years ahead of us.

Right? Like, who's to say they're not. Who's to say they're not 60,000 years ahead of us? Or 600,000 or 6 million?

Or, like, think about if you have a fucking time machine, you could go back to check out some shit that already happened, but you could also go forward. I mean, we just have no comprehension of what you could. Maybe you could, like, start a project in your lab, right? And then travel, and you get all these fucking AI robots to work on it, and then you travel way forward in time and go get it and then bring it back, and then it's the fucking ultimate thing, you know, like, that's what I'd be doing if I had time machines. I'd be like, all right, I'm gonna get all these fucking helpers to build these awesome monuments, and then I'm gonna go in for it in time and check on. All right, did you, you know, like, it would just give you. If you could manipulate time and travel through time like, it's an element. Like, did you have your check?

But would, you wouldn't be able to experience it because, like, you would always be involved in time being manipulated. So. So there'd be no static time. So even in this static time, something could intervene instantaneously, always, forever.

What if we don't really understand the nature of time to make those definitions? What if you could, if you could get this time machine? What if you could kind of, like, step out of time in a lot of different ways that you don't think you know what I'm saying?

Right, right. Like, you could go into a timeline and you don't even necessarily affect that.

Timeline if you know how to just observe it and not, like, physically disturb.

It, but you do affect it if you go forward in the future. The idea of a time machine, the current idea of a time machine is that you can't travel where there are no roads. So once a time machine is invented, then everything from that time, that time machine is invented, forward becomes a completely different way of using time because time now is non linear. Time now. Anyone else? So everything happens all at once. So people from the future will be traveling back to the moment where the first time machine is invented. So everything will change instantly. Because if you're going to invent a time machine and you live a million years in the future, assuming that humans even exist, if a time machine gets invented, I mean, we might become obsolete almost instantly, instantaneously, but you would, if you were a live human being, a million years after the time machine is invented, you would want to go back to the moment the thing was made. You'd want. And so the moment they turn that motherfucker on, everything changes forever.

Yeah. Singularity.

Yeah, that might be the real singularity. That was one of the McKenna's theories. Terrence McKenna believed that we were going to come up with a time machine. He thought that was going to happen around December 21, 2012.

Well, have you checked out his time wave? Zero.

Yeah.

And you know how they came up with that? Those taoist priests and shit?

How did they.

The fucking I ching, dude. They write deep meditations, and they would take mushrooms, too. And they found out that time can be mapped and, like, predicted. That's where the fucking I ching comes from. People in the sixties got all into the I ching.

Each thing is like a game, right?

No, it's a. It's a book. It's made up of. I'm not, like, an expert on.

But isn't there a game that's involved with the I ching that McKenna sort of patented? That's time wave, time of zero on?

I don't. I don't know if he made a game of it, but it's each ing a game. It's like a fortune telling.

That's what it's like. It's like a form of divination. Divination, right. Yeah, it is like a fortune telling thing. That's what it is. It's not a game.

Yeah.

I was trying to remember how he. I haven't heard his stuff in a long time. Try to remember how he described it. But most people that have looked at time wave zero think it's kind of nonsense. Including guys like Paul stamets. They're like, he was probably tripping real hard when he came up with that.

I don't know. I think it's above their head, dude.

It might be. I think it also is a ridiculous thing to subscribe to. So a lot of people are reluctant to, like, open their self up to.

Ridicule, but so is everything. Everything's ridiculous. Everything's ridiculous. What's all these, like, religions and everything that everybody fucking is into? Everything's ridiculous. Nothing is. Taoism and time wave zero isn't any more ridiculous than anything else that people are fucking tarot cards. It's. I think it's really interesting because those. I really get into ancient chinese culture. Like, I was into, you know, kung fu at a young age. So I've studied a lot of chinese philosophy, Taoism, all that stuff. Those people are highly intelligent, spiritual people who are doing deep meditations and discovering really profound truths. You know, I think that we are at a level where we're so intellectual that we're almost too intellectual. So it's almost like we can only. We can only think about things in this scale. Like, people see in a certain frequency, they can only see certain lights, but, like, dogs can hear sounds, we can't hear others. So it's just like that. It's like our fucking intellect is like this. And we can figure out all.

But, yeah, we exist within the context.

Of our culture because we've fallen in love with this, right? But there's also this and your heart, your spirit that that's what figured out the Tao te ching. That's what figured out, you know, how to tame horses and be one with them and domesticate primates. It wasn't just us thinking cerebrally. That's like, that's kind of limited. I think our real being is deeper than that. You know what I mean? I think you can learn and know things because I don't think about my ideas for art. I don't try to come up with them intellectually. I just meditate. I wait for it to find me. And that's not an intellectual practice.

Right. You know, but obviously it yields results, right? So it's the right way to do it. Meanwhile, people wouldn't think about that. They would think, oh, like, what's the straight? How do you do this? You add these boards, and that's how you make a house. They want a system switches, and that's how you make a computer.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's why, like, Bruce Lee innovated martial arts, because he said, like, let's kind of break down all these systems. Let's not adhere to these. He called it organized despair. All the karate forms and just doing your sparring and not really doing live training is a threshold that you don't want to cross.

Mm hmm.

So you're stuck in this, like, let's go through all these boring, stupid rituals to try to prop up our bullshit society when it's like, no, I think we've taken intellect as far as it's gonna go. I think if. If we're gonna get to the next level, we have to go deeper this way.

And, you know, I think it should be both. Right? And I think the problem is that with money and with capitalism and our society and what our reward system is based on, it rewards people going towards the things that are going to get you results that you could show other people. You know, like houses and cars and stuff like that.

Like a quick result.

Well, like a physical, tangible thing that's measured and cherished by society as opposed to spiritual growth.

Yeah.

You know, we don't think of spiritual growth as being like. It's almost like frivolous pursuit of silly people. I'm working on my spiritual growth. She fucking lazy bitch. Like, what are you doing?

What are you actually doing? Are you sitting around eating fucking cookies all day? Yeah.

Doing anything, you know, self love. Okay, settle down.

Maybe you love yourself too much.

Yeah. Maybe think about yourself too much. There's so many other things to think about, you know? And it's just we have a very complex society that has a gravity to it and it sucks you in, it makes you a part of it, and you don't have a whole lot of say. You get locked in and you get locked in when you're real young, get indoctrinated in the education system, and then you get outside of it and you have to make a living and take care of yourself and pay your bills, you get locked in. Meanwhile, space, meanwhile space is happening right above you. And every now and then you're forced to see it. Like, I don't know if you guys got any of the northern lights from the solar storms. Did you get it?

Yeah.

What was it like?

Just. I mean, I didn't see it. My daughter was just sending me pictures of it.

My buddy lives in Montana and he was sending me photos of what's going on. And Jamie, your buddy in Ohio, right?

Well, yeah, all my friends in Ohio saw it.

So, yeah, it's wild.

It's crazy how that just happened all over the place.

Well, we knew about it. We knew they were coming because there's two different types of radiation that comes from those storms. When they have this. These big coronal mass ejections, one of them reaches us in seconds. I think that's gamma waves. Is that what that is? That reaches us in seconds and then the second one takes days to get us. And that's the one that can take out your cell phone towers and fuck up communications and shut down the grid. If it gets big enough, we're really doomed. Yeah. We have a very, very vulnerable system, and we're essentially living in a house with a glass ceiling, hoping that it doesn't hail.

Don't help me sleep good at night.

Right. If you park your car outside, you know, if most of the time your car's fine. Most of the time it doesn't hail. But if it hails your car, the ceiling on that car, your car's gonna get fucked up. I'm sure you've seen, like, damage that hails caused to people's cars.

Yeah.

Fuck, man. And that is an unpredictable thing that happens way more often than these massive solar ejections. But if they get big enough, they get big enough, we're fucked. If they get big enough. We are back in the caveman days, kids. I mean, we still have books and we'll be reading them by candlelight, but all refrigeration's gone. You're going to have biodiesel generators. You're going to have to start making beef jerky again. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to need beef jerky, you're going to need water purification tablets. You're going to need someone who can figure out how to make those water purification tablets without electricity.

Want to test the water on before you drink it? Bro? You need a whole bunch of shit.

It could get real squirrely. What is when they have a coronal mass ejection, there's two different types of.

I know I'm very. I'm lost in this. In the science of it, it says that all, first it said all waves travel at the same speed. Which I was like, okay, that's not what we're looking for right here. It says they all travel at the speed of light.

The waves do visible or gamma, right? So those reach us in a few seconds.

But then I'm seeing they end up traveling up to a million miles second.

Whoa.

That's why I'm like, I'm trying to find out which waves are the ones we're talking about then.

So how many million miles away is that?

Faster than light. A million miles a second.

In my head, I was about to do that calculation next. I think it is, but really exact. It's. The speed of light is like it's something. Meters per second.

This is how we figure out time travel. These motherfuckers.

It's like 278,000 meters/second or something. Guess that could be close to a million miles per second.

Either way, that motherfucker is not stable.

Dude.

That sun means fairly stable, but every now and then it'll blow a gasket and you get just crazy waves headed towards us though.

Just, it's like having a really crazy friend that just might fucking freak out.

One new moment to a bar. He's got PTSD.

No, he's a good dude, I swear. All of a sudden he's got a DEI.

What was the worst version of it? Wasn't there something that happened that took out like Morse code towers in the 18 hundreds? I think there was one big historical mass ejection that was documented within the last couple hundred years that they say if it happened today, we would be really fucked. That the same thing if it happened today.

The Carrington event is what it's called. Winston tense geomagnetic storm in recorded.

When was that?

1 September 22 of 1859.

And so the Carrington event, most intense geomatic storm recorded history peaking from one to 2 September 1859 during solar cycle ten. Created strong auroral displays that were reported globally and caused sparking and even fires in multiple telegraph stations. Yeah, so like, what the fuck would that do today?

Blows up everything that has electricity in it.

Yeah, just cooks everything.

Dude, what if everybody's car just blew up? Everybody's fucking house just blowing up.

Oh, yeah. It probably would probably cook your fucking computer in your car. September 1, as Carrington was sketching on sunspots, he was blinded by a sudden flash of light. Carrington described it as a white light flare. According to NASA space flight, the whole event lasted about five minutes. The flare was a major coronal mass ejection. A burst of magnetized plasma from the sun's upper atmosphere, the corona. In 17.6 hours, the corona mass ejection traversed over 90 million mile between the sun. Okay, that's the distance between the sun and the Earth. 150 million unleashed its force on our planet. According to NASA spaceflight, it usually takes cmes multiple days to reach Earth. The day after Carrington observed the impressive flare, Earth experienced an unprecedented geomagnetic storm. With telegraph systems going haywire and auroral displays normally confined to polar latitudes visible in the tropics. According to NASA science, Carrington put two and two together and realized that the solar flare he'd seen was almost certainly the cause of this massive geomagnetic disturbance. This was a connection that had never previously been made. According to NASA spaceflight, the solar storm of 1859 is now known as the Carrington event in his honor.

Wow. So if that happened today, what? Google. What would happen if the Carrington event happened today? Let's find out.

Fucking cell phone just blows up.

Yeah. Oh, probably. It probably cooks everything. But that's what's really scary is that all of our cars are controlled by computers. Unless you have an old car that has a carburetor, you're fucked. Unless you have an old ass, you know, 1988 Toyota truck, you're in a bad spot right there. What would happen with a Carrington event today? People ask first one click on that. As such, Hudson suggested that a solar flare on the level of Carrington event might not pose as big a threat to humankind as some fear. Still, a Carrington event pointed at Earth today would have substantial impacts mainly on human activities in space. Also, it wouldn't kill our grid. I think they're just fucking guessing.

Yeah, they don't want to freak people out.

Dude, I don't know.

Because if it's never happened, how do you know what would happen?

Also that one, the Carrington event, we don't really totally know how big it was, right?

Because they didn't have the instruments to measure it back then.

And what if there's one that's double that. I mean, if that can happen, something bigger can happen. I mean, it's not, I mean, we've only been around a short amount of time. The fucking sun's been around for billions of years. Like, how long is it? Every now and then it shoots off a big wad of jizz and blasts us with some plasma.

Destroys all our technology. He's just up there.

You know, when they first started observing gamma ray bursts in the universe, they thought that there was wars going on in space. Yeah. When they first started detecting these gamma ray bursts, they found that they were happening like every couple seconds all over.

Space and they were reading too much science fiction.

No, no. They realized they both didn't know what it was like. What are these bursts? And then they realized there's something called hypernovas. So if a hypernova, like if our sun goes hypernova, that's a wrap. That's a rather. Yeah, but it did cook and that's.

What they're detecting all over the place.

Yeah.

So suns are always fucking blown up.

Yeah. Well, there's so many of them. Eventually they reach the end of their life cycle. And if they hypernova, if they're big enough and they have enough mass and they hypernova, that's, that's a wrap for the whole solar system. Yeah, like, I think it's a wrap for other solar systems that are close by too. I think it's a wrap for like, pretty much everything.

But maybe like, you get to that.

Point where, you know, Jamie Cat captures a supernova. Hypernova is actually even bigger than a supernova. So this is a nash, the, the Hubble telescope, captured a supernova, but there was a, I think was a science channel had this documentary on hypernovas where these people were talking about how when they first started measuring them, they were like, oh, shit, like, because this is like post World War two, we understand atomic bombs. Like, what do these guys have? Like, these guys are blowing up whole planets out there. Like, oh, fuck. Imagine thinking that the universe is teeming with life and that life is so violent that it's blowing up planets. Yeah, total Star wars shit.

Yeah, you'd have to if you were that scientist. You just have to be like, holy.

Fuck, what do I tell people?

Yeah, and you wouldn't, you probably wouldn't want to tell them that, but you'd have to tell, like, the generals. I would think there might be fucking Star wars going on.

I'm sure they had meetings. I'm sure they had me. When they, when they first detected these things, I'm sure they're like, oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, Mister Eisenhower, we've got some problems we gonna do.

We might not be shit after all.

Yeah, well, we're something to us, but in the greater scheme of it all, I mean, the universe doesn't seem to care if it cooks entire solar systems every couple seconds.

Well, cuz, I mean, the universe has to know more than we do. So we're over here thinking we're all badass. How do we know it's not better if you get zapped and then you fucking right appear in a different dimension?

That's probably what happens.

Yeah.

What are hypernovas?

I was going to show you this one I was just finding on this video about the largest supernova ever, SN 1572, which I guess that's the year, so it was said it was visible for 23 days.

Oh my God.

362 nights.

Wow.

So then, like, I'm watching the video. This is non scientific.

It look.

Could look like a, you know, a star, a planet that wasn't actually there. If they were observing it for so long, it would have ended up in a book. It was a supernova back then. Like, how much did they know about that?

How big did they say they saw? Did they talk about it?

Well, I'm trying to just go off without listening to the video. I'm just going off pictures and words and stuff. Not quite sure, though.

You imagine living back then. You see some fucking flare in the sky.

Yeah, they were looking at.

Look at that bullshit telescope.

He puts his eye up to it and it just fries his fucking eye out.

All right, imagine, yeah, those dummies are.

He's looking right at this. Super. Ah.

Did you watch the eclipse?

The last one?

Yeah. You didn't see it?

No.

No. Oh my God. It was wild, man. It was weird.

I saw the one before that. I was down in Santa Fe. Oh, yeah, I saw, I was outside, but I came, what I was doing, but I was like, oh, there's eclipse. That's how out of touch I am, dude. I don't even.

Well, this was such a big one that everybody was preparing and you know, roka, send us some sunglasses. So I went out in my backyard and washed it. It was pretty dope, man. It's weird to hear all the birds stop chirping. Like everything stopped, all the sound stopped. And then you just have this bizarre moment for a couple minutes where it's dark out.

Yeah, it's all weird and empty.

And then the, the eclipse looked amazing. It's so weird. That the sun and the moon are the perfect size, that they line up that way. That gets people, like, weirded out. They go, how is. What are the odds? Is there any other planet in our solar system that experiences that?

Yeah. Oh, shit.

What are the odds that it's the one planet that has intelligent life, that it's blocked out perfectly by our moon?

And what is that? What does that do? Like, I don't know, man. Like, it may be a superstitious or something, but I think those cosmic cycles.

I think it's a reminder.

Yeah.

I think it's certainly a reminder of just the vastness and bizarreness of space itself when you realize, like, oh, there's a giant nuclear explosion in the sky that keeps the lights on.

Yeah.

There's this other blocked.

Yeah. The other fucking rock that just blocks it out is perfectly.

Yeah.

Sized and shaped and that rock is.

Also perfectly sized to give us a stable, stable gravity that we're not wobbling enough so that we don't vary too much in our temperature. It keeps us stable because it's pretty big. That moon's pretty fucking big.

And the tides and everything, it's all. Yeah, very weird.

With the anteclipse of one of the moons of Mars looks like.

Mmm.

So small. And that doesn't fit perfectly.

Yeah, it doesn't fit perfectly at all. It just goes across it.

So that's the shadow that it casts. That weird.

Yeah. I wonder if there's. Are there any other planets in the solar system that would experience an eclipse that's similar to ours?

I was trying to just look at that. Like, I was thinking, saturn's got multiple moons. Is there any way it kind of.

Would have to be line up in one time. Right. It would have to be a moon. Like, one of them would have to line up and it have to be the same size as the sun in terms of, like, how it fits in the sky, the distance, so that it's the perfect size to block it out because it's. It's so perfect. Like, you, all you see is like, as it passes over, you just see the outside light. You see this black circle in the outside.

Weird ring.

It's perfect.

Yeah.

It's perfectly established to give us an eclipse.

That is weird when you think about it.

It is, but the whole thing's weird. It's probably one of the least weird things about space.

Yeah. I mean, like, I had an astronomy class in high school and that class would just trip me out hearing about how infinite. And like, the white dwarves and the pulsars and all the shit that's out there that they can see so far out there is wild. And then I got really sad when Eddie said space is fake.

I don't think he's an expert.

I like Eddie.

It's really good choking people, though, because.

You beat Hoyler, I'm going to listen to you.

There's some real interesting stuff that's going on now where they're finding galaxies that are so far away and are so far formed. They're so well formed that they don't think that they should exist. Given the timeline of the universe. They're very confused as to how these things exist, where they exist, that they shouldn't have been formed.

It's one of those fucking things.

Well, I think what it is is it's probably. The universe is probably older than we think it is. I think they're just. With the Webb telescope, they're just starting to be able to detect these structures in deep space that they're so far away and they're so old that they shouldn't be able to exist if the Big Bang happened, 13.7 billion, maybe they.

Found a way to stabilize themselves. Cause you gotta think like, if you're the right place, the right time, your technology. Your technology advances high enough before you destroy yourself, maybe you don't have a planet where everybody likes to kill each other, and you have world wars every fucking hundred years, and you don't nuke whatever, and you build your technology in a good way, maybe you could stabilize it. So fucking big bang happens, and you got some time wave zero shit that, you know.

That's the least likely. The most likely. I'm just making sure we have a bad understanding of how old space is. Galaxies that shouldn't exist keep being discovered by the James Webb space telescope. A bright red speck appears against the backdrop of a space photo, but astronomers say that it shouldn't be there. But there it is. Published today in the journal Nature. An international research team led by Carl Glazenbrook from Swineburn University of Technology in Melbourne says that the light reaching Earth from this galaxy, named JWST 7329, is 11.5 billion years old and comes from an. An ancient assembly of stars likely formed 13 billion years ago. It doesn't make sense because it's been thought until now, there wasn't enough dark matter in the early universe to prompt this formation. Current understandings of what grows a galaxy suggest that dark matter halos, which are filled or fields of invisible material in space, coalesce and collect stars and galaxies within their structure. It's only because of the James Webb space telescope that the team has been able to clarify what the red speck was. Seven years of long observations using ground based keck, the Hawaii Observatory and the VLT in Chile.

All they could see was a faint red smudge. NASA's James Webb telescope. It's been such an incredible thing. Been waiting for the last 30 years, been delivering all those dreams we've had. Glazing Brook tells Cosmos this is something we've been working on over the years, deeper and deeper surveys, looking for the oldest and most massive galaxies that formed. We did the calculations of how old it is, and it's way beyond the bounds of what's reasonable to form in the cold, dark matter dominated universe. It's really a huge puzzle. So I think they have crude instruments, relatively crude instruments for seeing that far back, and they keep getting better. And the James Webb is better than the Hubble. And the more they can see, the more it reveals puzzles. They're just not exactly sure what the fuck is going on out there, and it's big.

And when they find out, dude, doesn't that make you wonder, like, what the fuck? What's the answer, you know?

Well, they also don't even know if the Big Bang was actually the beginning of the universe. That's. There's a lot of people, including Sir Roger Penrose, think that the universe existed before the Big Bang and that there's also people that believe that there might be this constant cycle of Big Bang expansion and then ultimately compression and then big bang again.

I mean, that's really wild. But that makes sense because it's like, how do you just. How is there nothing?

Right?

How's there just nothing? And then all of a sudden a big bang. Yeah, it'd be more likely, like, everything expands.

Was that tracks. But isn't it a weird thing to think? How is there something if there wasn't. If there wasn't nothing, why is there something? Yeah, why has there always been something that seems even less likely? Like, what the fuck is that?

Right? I mean, we got it. Like, assume if there's something now probably all, always some stuff was something, but.

How could it always be something? What did it. How did it start?

That's. That's the freaking. Yeah, that's the question. Like, if you ever got to meet God, you'd be like, what predated you?

Right?

What created you?

Right?

You know? Right. Then your mind blows and he'd be like, chat, GPG. And then you'd be like, I am a fucking cyborg.

I think. I think we're gonna find out some very interesting stuff for the next five years.

Yeah.

I think in the next five years, things gonna get real fucking squirrelly.

Yeah. But, you know, you kind of just. There's no other choice than to look forward to it.

Well, I mean, no one's gonna hit the brakes.

Yeah.

We gotta ride this out.

Yeah.

And enjoy it.

So you just gotta think, well, is. We live in interesting times.

We definitely live in interesting times.

Yeah.

I think the most interesting times, because, you know, there was an interview recently where someone was talking about this, and he was saying that this is, what, the first time in history that no one has any idea what it's going to look like in 20 years.

Or probably even five.

Probably even five. Yeah.

Because the way everything's expanding exponentially.

Yeah.

Kind of leads you to believe it's going to continue to do that. And then what are those unpredictable changes gonna be?

Right.

You know, my fucking life is completely different than was five years ago, bro. Happened to me and. But I don't know.

Well, the whole world's different than it was four years ago, right. COVID comes along. Everything changes.

Yeah.

The whole world's different now. So, like, what? Yeah, what does that look like? What does it look like 520 years from now? It's gonna be weird, man. I'll tell you that. There's no way it's not gonna be weird. It's weird already, you know?

Yeah, it is. But it's. It's almost like, do you live your life fucking worrying about it? Or do you just say, I'm alive? Just fucking check it out. This is gonna be wild, dude. We don't know, because when those solar flares could take everything out, and then we don't even have a show to watch.

True.

At least it's something to do.

Well, it's definitely something to do, and you definitely can't stop it, so you definitely should just live your life and enjoy it. But doesn't make it any less fascinating, you know? It is absolutely fascinating.

Yeah.

This is the timeline that we're in. For whatever reason. That's what gets real weird. It's like, why are we in this timeline? Everyone listening to this right now? Everyone watching this right now? Why are you in this timeline? Why? Is this the time that you exist? Have you existed before? Is this your first time in this timeline? You know, everybody wants to assume it is. Like, someone said to me once that they wouldn't. Like, there's a theory I'm sure. You're aware of this theory that you live the same life over and over and over again until you get it right. You know that enlightenment is possible, but you. You have to. You. You got to go at it over and over and over and over and over again until you nail it. And I was talking with a friend of mine, like, oh, fuck, I wouldn't want to do that. I'm like, okay, if you wouldn't want to do that. Do you like life now? Because I love life now. I'm having a great time. So someone said to me that I have to do this all over again. Why would that be so bad?

Why am I. Am I scared of that? But everybody's scared of that. Everybody's scared of starting from scratch again, being a baby again.

But remember when you were a white belt? Sure was fucking awesome.

Not really.

Well, no, I enjoy it, but I'm not talking about just getting smashed and choked. I'm talking about looking forward to learning.

Sure.

And maybe I should have said blue belt, but it's.

It's like I got smashed a lot as a blue belt.

I like looking forward to this big journey, you know what I mean? Like, when I. When I first started doing kung fu, when I was, like, 19 or 20, I didn't know it, and we didn't have to get choked. It was just fun.

Right.

You know? And I was like, oh, I don't know anything about this, but I have so much to learn. It's gonna be so cool. And then after years and years, I'm kind of jaded. I've done it so fucking long, I don't think I really even appreciate it anymore.

I know what you're saying. Yeah. There's. There's a thing that you can get jaded by a thing.

Yeah.

And new things are all very exciting. That's why it's really important for people. It's just for the health of your mind to try new things or to try things where you're not that good at trying to keep getting better. Because it's like this thing that you have to do to practice and learn. It enriches the way you think about everything.

Yeah. It's so valuable to be able to do that and to be able to. To realize you're doing that and you're capable of learning new things. And that really is what makes you live is dude. And that. That is why people get stagnant, because it's like when you were a kid, you were always trying to learn something new. You weren't like, oh, fuck. I'm jaded. I just. Man, I don't know what I'm gonna do. You were trying to learn constantly, and so if you continue to do that, learn and play and. And just accept and have fun. You don't have to get old. You don't have to get stale. You don't have to get bored. You can fucking enjoy this life.

You can. Yeah. You certainly can if you find things that they're exciting. That's the saddest thing, I think, is someone who doesn't have a thing, someone who doesn't have a thing that excites them, someone that doesn't. Doesn't engage with something that stimulates them. I think you need it as a human organism. The human organism needs little puzzles and stuff to do. Makes it exciting for it. If you don't do that, like, you're gonna feel shitty.

Yeah, you do. You get bored. I mean, God, the best, most happy times in your life are when you have all these exciting projects. You don't know if it's even gonna work, but, like, holy shit, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna get excited about this and fucking go after it.

Hey, let me ask you this about your work. Cause I always wanted to ask you this question. When you're painting crazy horse, is there any part of you that doesn't want to do that? Because, like, crazy horse did not want to be photographed, so you have to paint what you imagine crazy horse would be. It's kind of crazy that that dude got so, you know, no pun intended, got so famous and managed to avoid having his picture taken.

I think he knew there are mug shots.

You think that's what it was?

I think when I. When I look back at all those. The. The photographs, I think they were fucking. He wasn't. He was a smart dude. He didn't want his picture out there, so he couldn't be identified because they were. They're trying to kill him.

They don't want to kill him.

I think, like, you know, I definitely do a lot of spiritual work. Do spiritual work, yeah. But no, like, spiritual introspection and, you know, I, like, I have friends from the Oglala tribe who are, like, related to him that I talk to and learn stories from the Lakota, the Oglala themselves. So I try to have a deep insight for it, do a lot of research what he really would have looked like, and also just think, is this. Is this the right thing to do? Do I have permission to do this? And if that kind of comes through and the Lakotas themselves, they don't get ahold of me. Not a problem. And I talk to them about it, then it's okay. But it's. It's like it's not from an actual photograph.

Of course.

It's.

It's just right from your mind.

Yeah, well, not even that. I try to like, I think about Black Elk's description of them and just try to put together the facial features of my mind.

How did they deal with that sculpture? That giant sculpture of crazy horse, the one that hasn't been finished yet?

I don't know, but I don't really. I like the idea of what they're doing, but I don't. It doesn't look that much to me like how I imagine looking.

It's weird, you know, how do you. How do you do a giant sculpture of a guy and say it's this guy?

Yeah.

You don't even know what that guy looked like.

I know, but I think. I think they're doing that to kind of just pay tribute to him.

Seems like a weird thing to do though.

Yeah.

You know.

Well, cuz I from. I don't think. I don't know. I don't want to talk.

It's like one family that's doing this, right?

Yeah, I talk shit on this dude's project.

What is that image of him? Scroll up. Or you above that. Right there. Right there. Click on that. What is that? That's a bronze statue or something. That's supposed to be crazy horse. Random stuff. Yeah, but he didn't. He like cut pieces of. Off of his body like before he went to war. Caught like a hundred pieces off of his skin.

That sitting bull.

Sitting Bull did that. Didn't crazy horse do that as well?

No, crazy horse didn't participate in a lot of like the Sundance where you pierce.

No, no. I mean he cut like pieces of his skin off like marked his skin.

No, he. That was sitting Bull.

See if there's a story about Crazy Horse before we go to battle cutting pieces of his skin off. Because I thought that. I thought they said that Crazy Horsey did it as well. That he had like cut little pieces of himself off of his arms that had little scars all over his arms.

I hadn't heard that, but I heard sitting Bull before the Battle of Little Bighorn. Before the battle of Little Bighorn, sitting Bull cut like 100 pieces off his shoulders and his back.

Maybe that's what I'm remembering and all that.

To get a vision what the battle was going to be like. And then he stared into the sun and he saw all these soldiers falling into the camp. And so that's where. Because sitting Bull was kind of like the general. He was a little older at the time of the battle and he had a bad wound on his leg, but he was a visionary, really respected medicine man leader. And Crazy Horse was the actual fighter. So he'd go and kind of lead the troops and do the actual fighting.

Did you find anything about crazy horse cutting pieces of his skin off? So maybe I'm fucking it up, but the thing that gets me is that they had these methods. I mean, these are people that are living in a time where you had to be pragmatic. You couldn't pretend that you could see things. If you did a certain thing, you were trying to achieve a vision. So they had probably done it before and they had methods to do it.

Yeah.

And a lot of their methods involve pain, you know, like the thing where they would pierce their nipples and suspend them.

Yeah. Sundance.

Crazy shit, man.

Yeah.

They did these things in a time where, you know, you're living a subsistence lifestyle. You don't have a lot of time for fucking around for nonsense. Yeah. And yet they found value in, like, self torture.

Yeah, well, it's. I mean, it kind of.

Do you have any paintings on the sundance?

No, I was. I was working on a painting of a sun dancer that has the white sage. They put white sage around their head like this, kind of like a halo and then wear an eagle bone whistle here. And they paint themselves white with the spots there.

And you're suspended.

Yeah.

Hanging by your nipples.

And you have to not eat for four days, not drink water. And everybody around the village, like, gets to tease you and throw little spear twigs at your legs and shit. And just like four days. It's an endurance ritual.

And eventually it rips out of your chest.

Yep. Once it rips out and like, dude, friends of mine from South Dakota, they still have those. Those scars like this, bro. Yeah.

Did you ever see male called horse?

I meant fuck, yeah, I own that. I got that on DVD.

That was. What was that gentleman's name?

Richard Harris.

That's right. He goes through that ritual.

Yeah.

There's always that story, though, about. That's why people get angry. There's a story about the white guy who goes and kicks ass with the Indians. Everybody shut the fuck up. Yeah.

Because it doesn't give the Indians enough credit in a way.

Right.

That one, you can see has a little bit of the white savior thing to it, but it's not. It's not like they're not giving you something. That's what I think is that the native culture has taught me so much. That's why I paint it. That's why I got into that as a kid, because it was an alternative to mind prison of the system, of the schools. I could see in the people's eyes that they were free, that they were real, that they were powerful individuals. And I wanted to follow that. I didn't want to listen to, like, my second grade teacher, who is, you know, nothing I ever want to be like. So those books, and I still have those books, you know, that's what inspired me to do this, and that's what keeps me going and sharing it with the world, because I want to say this is a valuable, amazing culture that we blindly destroyed and committed a genocide on. There are millions of people over here, and the whites came over and were just so fucking dumb that they just. They wasted a lot of good knowledge. But there's still pieces of it alive, and maybe we could do what we can to pay that back.

Learn from it.

My fear is that if it wasn't for the ability to use media in the 20th and 21st century, we might have lost the true story forever.

Yeah.

You know, you have a. Imagine if we did, you know, because the world wasn't much different in terms of our technological capabilities from, like, 1500 to 1700. Right, right. But from 1800 to the year 2000, it's a giant fucking difference. And that's when people started going, hey, what. What fucking happened? We should write books. Like, real books.

Yeah.

Fucking.

Really research this perspective. Yeah.

I remember the first time I read empire, the Summer moon, which is about this place right here, right where we're at. I was like, jesus, like, how could we. How did I not know this?

Yeah, how did.

How does this not taught in school, like, what happened? Because it's a fascinating story.

I know. And you do really, really have to wonder that. Why is that left out when it's one of our best stories? Like, I was talking to some of these guys out here earlier about, you know, why is Quanta's story just not as popular as, like, custer and crazy horse?

Right. Quantum Parker.

Yeah. And I think it's. It's because it's more complex. It's not as easy as, like, the one guy from the one culture, the one battle custer. Crazy horse fight. Right, done. It's more of, like, it's all over. There's Jack Hayes. There's, you know, Quanta Parker. There's the formation of the Texas Rangers. There's a technology of the colt.

And there's another example of Cynthia Ann Parker. Another example of someone who was kidnapped at a young age, became a Comanche. And then they rescued her. And she's like, I want to be rescued.

Yeah. I want to get back. Trying to escape. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh. What a time, man.

And it's so sad how she, uh. Like, how she died thinking that Quano was dead and he wasn't.

Yeah.

And just how much he, like, wanted to honor her memory and how much, you know, he loved his mom. And he, like, what a good dude. He was, like, just such a badass warrior. And then he's also a diplomat and took care of everyone and built that star house.

Mm hmm. You know, also kind of crazy that he killed a shitload of white people.

Yeah.

And still managed to, like, meet the president, hang out with everybody footing people. Like, forgave shit back then. Like, yeah, let's let that go.

That's the time we live in.

Everybody was murdering everybody back then. That's what was really wild. It's like, just human life back then was worth so much less.

Yeah.

People were so much more savage.

Dude, the story of just Texas and the fucking Comanches is so wild, and it's so unappreciated. And I, like, I really think that with. With our country and our culture, we. We really do have a cool history that was so unique where. You know what I mean? Nothing like that really ever happened. And, like, to your point, we. We had a way to keep records of it. But there's. Dude, there's all these rad stories about native history. Like, there's this dude, William Weatherby. If you can look up the story of William Weatherby, the Creek warrior, Red Eagle. He led this big rebellion of the Creek Indians. And the government hired Andrew Jackson, who was later president, I think, to go fight him. He was this big civil war general. And these creeks would build these big fortifications and try to fight off the army, and they blow it apart with cannons and just slaughtered. Like, you know, hundreds of creeks fought this big, protracted war with them, like in Alabama. No one even knows about the fucking Creek war or who William Weatherby is, but when you hear his story, dude, he's like William Wallace of America.

You wouldn't believe this motherfucker, okay? His whole village is getting wiped out in there, and he's the leader, and they're like, where's William? I was gonna say Wallace, where's William Weatherby? Weatherford is it. Is it Weatherford.

I couldn't find a weatherby, but I got a weather for Weatherby's arrival.

Yeah. Okay, Weatherford. So anyway, he's this creek warrior and he's like the leader, and he's getting tracked down and they're trying to find him. And they're like, basically, it's kind of like the braveheart how they're like, why.

Does he have an american name?

I mean, back then they were interacting a lot with the English, and it wasn't uncommon for a native to have a white name. I think it was half white, half indian, too, but he was such a badass dude. So they're. They're basically like saying, if you don't. If Red Eagle, that's his indian name, doesn't come in, we're gonna just really devastate these people. We're gonna, you know, all your people are gonna be having a bad time. So they were like, basically gonna hurt his tribe if he doesn't surrender. Okay. And so he's riding in to surrender and he sees a deer, fucking shoots it, picks it up, guts it, throws it over his saddle and keeps riding in to go surrender. Right? And he gets there to Andrew Jackson, and he's like, if I had an army, I'd fight you to the death. But you've killed all my warriors, and I only have women and children, and I'm not gonna let them suffer so you can chase me. So here I am. Fucking kill me if you want to do whatever.

And what'd they do to him?

Well, Andrew Jackson actually said, this dude's so brave. Let's have a drink. They went in the tent, drank some whiskey, and as they're in the tent, everybody's chanting. All the soldiers are chanting, see, there he is. Kill him, kill him, kill him. That's the soldiers big chance all around from the army. Kill him, kill him, kill him. Jackson walks out. Everyone's quiet. Let me tell you, red Eagle is the bravest motherfucker of all y'all. And if anybody touches a hair on his head, you're gonna answer to me. Don't fuck with Red Eagle and let's go.

Imagine being a fly on the wall during that meeting.

Yeah.

See that guy come in and sit down.

Yeah, but just the bravest. If you read the story and he gives this incredible speech, like, I didn't really do it justice, but he's just very eloquent, you know, says this shit and like, do what you want with me. Don't fuck with my people. I don't.

The history of Native Americans is there's so many people don't know what happened. So many people that don't know that Native Americans went to Paris and met with whoever the hell was in charge back then.

Yeah. Crazy shit, dude. The actual, like, truth is stranger than fiction.

Yeah.

You know, because we, like, the people writing fucking movies are gonna go, I don't want to try that fucking hard. Cowboy Indian, right? Can't put in the can. What are they saying?

I wonder if someone's gonna do, like, a real realistic movie about the Comanche and rangers.

The dude. The Yellowstone dude doing the empire of a summer moon.

That's right. Is he doing that? Is that official? That's gonna be why he'll do it, right? Taylor Sheridan knows what the fuck he's doing. He'll do it. Right. If anybody should be entrusted with that. Did you see 1883?

Oh, yeah.

Amazing, right? Amazing.

So good. And how that, like, the Lakotas are. They put the. The feces on the arrows to poison them.

Yellowstone tail. Sheridan lands empire. The summer moon will write and direct epic Comanche leader Quanah and the rise and fall of old West. Fiercest tribe. January 18, 2024. Fuck, yeah. He's gonna nail it.

What's that gonna be like? It's gonna be incredible. I hope that the westerns come back as a genre because I really think we should take pride in our history more. You know what I mean? I think it would bond us more. It's just like, we're Americans or our, like, ancestors. They fucking went across the sea, they went across the continent. They fucked with the Comanches. Like, they were brave, they were crazy. That's who our ancestors are. They should be honored, dude. We should be thinking about them going, we're Americans. We're badass. We won the fucking world War two. We the, you know, someone's had a.

Couple of lone stars.

Look at you. God damn it.

We're fucking Americans.

You know?

We fucking did it, bro.

Like, the history, dude.

It's a fascinating history. It's certainly a fascinating history. And it's riddled with horror stories. Horror stories. And amazing accomplishments and brave people and all of it mixing together.

Yeah.

Crazy stuff.

Yeah.

Listen, brother, no one captures it better. No one captures the native american imagery and just of the feeling of it better than you. Your stuff's awesome, man. And it's been dope getting to become friends with you.

Yeah, same here, dude, I can't thank you enough. Being here is such an honor, you know, helping me get my art out there to the world. Just can't thank you enough, bro.

Oh, I'm more than happy. More than happy that people get to see your shit. It's awesome.

Yeah, well, I'm gonna keep trying to put good stuff out there.

You will. I'm sure you know I have 100% faith in you. Everything you do is dope. I appreciate it a lot. What's up, Jamie? Oh, I thought you said something. Oh, listen, man, thanks for coming. Appreciate you. Tell everybody how they can see your stuff. Find it online.

You can just look me up online. Greg Overton fine art. Instagram. Greg Overton fine art. I'll be in Santa Fe during indian market, uh, mid August. And I'll. I'll be at the fucking Jackson Hole art auction. There it is, one man show, Jackson Hole art auction in September. And that's the fucking top of the top, so there it is.

All right, my man. Appreciate you very much, man. Thanks for coming.

Yeah.

Bye, everybody.