Lemonada. For attorney Edward Brass, the decades have not diminished how ominous it was to meet with clients at the Salt Lake County Jail that no longer exists.

The old jail was in the basement adjacent to the courthouse, and it was difficult to get in and out of.

With two underground entry points, unreliable fluorescent lighting, and a sour stench that he can still summit. It was as uninviting as the hulking metal doors that blocked the entrances.

They had very heavy doors, and if one of the doors was left ajar, you could get stuck in an elevator or stuck in a visiting area for a long time.

Ed was part of the defense team hired by Michael Moore's father just days after Michael confessed to killing Jordan Rasmussen and Buddy Booth.

I've been a lawyer about five years at this point, so it was the guy that did all the dirty work.

One more thing you should know about Ed, he's my husband. We weren't married in 1982. In fact, we wouldn't meet for another decade. When I first started looking into this story, I had no idea my husband was involved. Normally, in my work as a daily journalist, this connection, also known as a conflict of interest, would have meant the end of my involvement. But the team discussed it at length, and we decided that telling this story in a podcast that's focused on a decades long struggle with forgiveness and healing was a different situation. Also, Ed is the only surviving member of Michael Moore's defense team, and he can give us information and perspective that nobody else can. We decided on some rules, including sharing all this with our audience, and producer, Andreas Smarten, conducted our first interview with Ed. I wonder how you and Amy figured out that she was working on a podcast season about someone you represented because you didn't figure that out right away, right?

No, I didn't know. I didn't know about it at all.

Do you remember the conversation with her when she's just talking about what she's working on and you're like, I actually represented that guy?

It was just like that. So, yeah, I remember him. I was one of the lawyers.

Back in 1982, Ed had only been a defense attorney for about five years. He was the younger, less experienced attorney on the team. And as he said, that meant doing the dirty work. So just a few days after he read about the double homicide at Loghaven in the newspaper, he went to meet with the man who'd confessed to the killings. And to do that, he had to go to a place that still haunt his nightmares. It was a room the size of a walk-in closet secured by a heavy unwieldy door that locked the second it slam shut, trapping attorneys into this visiting chamber with no way to communicate with the outside world. It wasn't an ideal setup if you wanted to get to know someone.

There was a mesh screen, a wire mesh screen with heavy gage wire, so you couldn't see the face of the person you were talking to, which for me is a huge disadvantage. I can't really tell what emotion is a person is showing without being able to see their face. It's an important component in judging whether or not you're getting accurate information, I think.

Ed could only make out the rough contours of Michael Moore's face as they began to talk.

My memories of the first meeting were that this is a pretty ordinary guy, just a guy off the street. Just seemed like a totally normal person.

So at this point, when you're first meeting with him, you haven't yet heard his confession?

No, I just knew it had happened. He'd already been interrogated by the police, but I wanted to know what his perspective is on what happened, and I wanted to know a little bit about his history.

The more Ed learned, the more baffling it all was. Michael Patrick Moore was 25 years old when he was arrested. He was born and raised in Salt Lake City, the only child of devout Catholic parents. He attended private Catholic schools, and he dreamed about one day attending medical school. One news article about Moore said classmates called with a shadow. He was shy, according to one classmate. He was with everybody. He was with nobody. Somehow, he was always there, and yet his presence never was. They said Michael Moore always wore suits to school, never played sports, and on Sundays, the Moore family arrived first at their Catholic Church and always sat in the front pew. Everyone described Michael as extremely intelligent. He even volunteered to help his coworker study for their chemistry or calculus classes. He He worked at Loghaven for seven years, rising from groundskeeper to general manager. Friends said the job helped transform him from shy to outgoing and friendly.

And all of a sudden, he's involved with killing two people, and that was hard to wrap your head around at first.

Even 40 years later, Ed said he hasn't encountered anyone like Michael Moore. Most people in his situation have a criminal history, drug addiction or gang involvement, but that wasn't Michael's story. In fact, there was only one thing that even raised an eyebrow.

He'd had something that happened when he was younger. There was some discussion at some point in time about how he'd burn down his family home. But other than that, there wouldn't have been much.

He may have burned down his home as a child. That seems relevant. But here's the thing. Apparently, no one else thought so. That's because other than Michael's father telling his defense attorneys in a quote in a news article, We couldn't find any record of it. In the news article, Michael's father said the family home burned down in the mid-1960s. Then he said, I think Michael started that, but I don't know for sure. Trying to peer through the heavy mesh screen, Ed couldn't quite conjure up a picture of this man that made sense. But it wasn't just Michael's lack of criminal history that made his actions so hard to understand. It was his meaner as they discussed what happened at Log Haven the morning of the murders. Did he seem stressed out, emotional?

What was he like? He was always very calm, very calm and very well-spoken, very bright.

It was almost as if he wasn't talking to a person who'd snuffed out the lives of two young fathers, a person who now faced the possibility of a firing squad. But it wasn't just that Michael didn't seem like the person to wake up one morning and commit murder. It was how he thought the rest of the world would feel about his violent decision. That was almost more unsettling.

The thing that stunned me the most was that after talking about the fact that he killed two people, he thought that the police would see it his way and he was going to get released. He still thought that when I saw him, that there was just no question in his mind he was going to be released.

From KSL podcast, I'm Amy Donaldson, and this is The Letter. Season 2, Ripple Effect. Episode 3, Chamaeleon. On a summer night, Douglas Wag Jr. Lay motionless across a strip of railroad tracks before being struck by an on coming train. I'm investigative journalist Delia D'Ambra, and my investigation into exactly how Doug Guide took me into the depths of a bizarre mystery. It was really hard to understand what was fact and what was it. A mystery that has led me from one suspicious death to another. Listen to counterclockwise now wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, everyone. It's David Ducouvenue. Do you ever feel like a failure? Trust me, I get it. Hell, I've I spent my whole life almost feeling like a failure. It's appropriate, though, because on Fail Better, my new podcast with Lemenade Media, exploring the world of failure, how it holds us back, propels us forward, and ultimately shapes our lives, is the whole point. Each week, I'll chat with artists, athletes, actors, and experts about how our perceived failures have actually been our biggest catalysts for growth, revelation, and even healing. Through these conversations, Conversations, I hope we can learn how to embrace the opportunity of failure and fail better together. Fail Better is out on May seventh, wherever you get your podcasts.

It wasn't just attorneys who were trying to understand why Michael More chose murder that winter morning in 1982. It was the families of the two men he killed. For Jordan Rasmussen's sister, Diane, she was tortured by questions about what happened to her brother before before his death. We had no idea what he had to go through, and did he have to try and flee for his life and bleed for his life. Remember, Diane and her older sister, Leslie, were so unsettled when they learned who killed Jordan that they went to the jail to try and talk with him, but they were turned away. A few weeks later, they decided to look for answers somewhere else. This time, they went to the scene of the crime, Log Haven Restaurant. When we went there, the two of us, it was to find out what everybody knew. They hoped the people who worked with Michael might have the answers they craved. We just wanted to go and find out what they thought really happened. We wanted to hear about Mike. Why would he take our brother's life? It was a place they knew well. Both Diane and Leslie had celebrated their weddings at Loghaven.

But now, it was the place where their brother was killed. It was so hard to walk up to the restaurant. We didn't say who we were. We didn't say we were the sisters of the guy that was murdered here. She thinks it was during the day because the restaurant was mostly empty. They felt awkward as they tried to casually ask questions about something that was tearing them apart. We spoke to a waitress and just act like, Isn't this where someone was killed? And, Oh, yeah, that happened. But no one was forthcoming with, Yes, isn't it horrible? In fact, I even think we asked about Jordan. Did you know? Did you know Jordan? No, not really. There was no, Oh, the poor guys that were killed here. Yeah, we didn't get any comfort from going there. They also didn't get any answers. It was almost as if what happened there was no big deal. It was really hard. I remember we just couldn't get out of there fast enough because it wasn't what we wanted to hear. They left the restaurant, and then they wandered around outside, trying to get a picture of what might have happened, where Jordan might have been shot, what his last moments were like, where he might have died.

The only solace was that they had some details and a body to bury. I mean, we didn't have to go very long without wondering where he is or what happened. So we... That was a blessing. They left Loghaven and drove down the canyon, still confused, still unmoored. If they wanted answers to the questions that tortured them, they'd have to wait for the trial, where they would finally get what they wanted to hear from Michael Moore himself. The victim's families did not have to wait long for answers about what happened at Loghaven on March fifth, 1982, because The capital murder trial was held just six months later. Nowadays, a case like this might take years to come to trial. But in 1982, standards, even for capital murder cases, were lower, less complicated.

This homicide occurred in March, and we were trying it by August, the same year. This was on a fast track. It got done.

This is T. J. Sacklos, one of the prosecutors assigned to the case. From the outset, there was no confusion about what Michael had done. Or what punishment he deserved.

Because of the double homicide, it was pretty clear in my mind I was going to charge it as capital case.

He wasn't alone. Remember T. J.'s boss, the one who'd assigned him to the case, Jonte Nielson? He'd essentially promised the Rasmussen's that Michael Moore would be executed for the murders. He called it a slam dunk. The possibility of capital punishment made a major story even bigger. It was August 30th, 1982, when Michael Moore's double homicide trial began with jury selection. And as the media converged on the third district courthouse, both families now found themselves part of the coverage they'd tried so hard to avoid. Just getting from their cars to the three-story building forced them to navigate a gauntlet of security and strangers, only to be met by a sworn of reporters at the courtroom doors. Buddy Booth's widow, Carla, tried her best to evade the sworn, but it was impossible. That was... I tried everything I could not to put my face on camera. I got pulled away several times, so it scared me. When they finally made it inside the austere windowless room, where they'd spend nearly two weeks listening to the details of how Buddy and Jordan spent their last minutes alive, the families huddled into two separate groups on the same side of the room.

They were surrounded by a sea of strangers. Prosecutor prosecutor, T. J. S. S. S. Says the room was packed.

There were people sitting in the aisles.

On the floor?

On the floor, and they were standing. I mean, that courtroom just filled up.

The situation prompted the judge to do something unusual.

I remember Judge Condor's announcing from the bench. He says, The doors to the courtroom are going to be locked while we're in session so people don't go in and out and disturb the proceedings.

An officer led Michael Moore from his cell in handcuffs through that maze of underground tunnels and into a room at the courthouse where he'd change into a blue blazer and tanned slacks. And then he'd take his seat next to his defense team. While the stakes don't get any higher than a death penalty case, in this instance, there was never a question of guilt or innocence. In fact, both sides would rely on the same basic facts. Michael Moore shot Jordan Rasmussen after driving him up the canyon the morning of March fifth, 1982. Then he killed Buddy Booth when he arrived while Michael was trying to dispose of Jordan's body. There was a long list of physical evidence, and of course, that meticulously detailed confession. The big question was whether the 25-year-old should face a firing squad or spend his life behind bars. Defense attorney, Ed Brass said they knew they were fighting long odds.

I think that we had the pair of twos as far as playing the poker hand goes.

For those who are not poker players, that's almost always a losing hand.

They definitely had the stronger case.

But if there was a man made for exactly this challenge, it was Ed's cold Council, Bob VanSkyver. Bob was one of Utah's premier defense attorneys, which may be why Michael Moore's family hired him once they learned their son was going to face the death penalty. Bob died in 1997, but he was an unforgettable figure in the legal community.

He was a flamboyant guy, smoker. He was always with a cigarette.

In 1982, Bob was 45, and his blonde hair was turning gray. I mentioned his hair because in addition to his dramatic flair in the courtroom, it was one of Bob's most recognizable attributes.

It was part on the side, but he was going bald, and he was very vain about that. He would spend an inordinate amount of time every day, literally his hairstyle together and using hairspray to make sure that it stayed in place.

He brought that same meticulous care and confidence to every courtroom fight.

A very confident man, very capable trial lawyer. I learned a lot from him.

Bob was one more thing.

He was absolutely fearless. He would take on any case. He was not afraid of anyone. He was a very brave guy.

When opening arguments When the silence began, Bob and his perfectly quaffed hair acknowledged the basic facts of the case were undisputed and disturbing. But there was an explanation for what Michael had done, and it meant he was not guilty of premeditated, cold-blooded murder.

He was laboring under extreme emotional disturbance and distress for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse.

That's Bob explaining to reporters that what happened the morning of March fifth was the horrific crash of an emotional spiral that sent Michael into an alternate reality. While the weeks leading up to the shooting were littered with evidence of Michael's emotional deterioration, the poison seeds of all of this were planted three years earlier when two Taiwanese businessmen bought the high-end restaurant. They promoted Michael to manager, and everyone had high hopes for the future. But the relationship between the two businessmen soured. By the end of 1981, it devolved into acrimony. The only solution was a business divorce, and Loghaven wasn't their only entanglement. The owner who'd been more closely involved in running Loghaven day to day was Po Chang. He agreed to sell to the other partner, Henry Lynn. Lynn worked closely with Jordan Rasmussen, and he'd asked Jordan to replace Michael as the manager, although that was never officially revealed to the staff. Like most bad marriages, their split ranged from messy to all-out war. Loghaven employees were caught in the crossfire. The heart of the issue was money. Three months before the murders, Jordan Rasmussen told Chang that he couldn't account for $30,000. That ignited suspicions that someone was embezzling money from Loghaven.

Jordan suspected Michael Moore, who was the general manager. Michael accused Jordan, and he said the conniving accountant was conspiring with Lynn and his business associates to frame him. Jordan's end game? To steal what Michael valued most, his job. And that's when Michael began to spiral into what Bob Benz-Gyver called extreme emotional distress.

No sleep, no food, some alcohol, the thought that he was going to lose his job, that at least at this juncture, appears to have been his entire life.

Managing Loghaven wasn't just a paycheck to Michael.

His commitment to the work was much like commitment of others to a person or a friend. His whole life dealt with that job.

Ed said Michael's entire identity was tied up in running the restaurant.

This business was his life. It was everything to him. He was going to lose it. He was going to lose it to someone that he felt didn't deserve it. He was taking away his child, really. He felt that strongly about it.

But it wasn't just about losing his job. Michael claimed he was afraid for his life. He started to tell friends and coworkers outlandish stories. More talked about fear and paranoia that was rampant through the parent company that owned Loghaven. He said many employees of international consolidated enterprises thought the mob had a connection with the company. Most of the office staff believe the phones were tapped. Michael claimed the money was missing because someone had broken into the safe, so he started sleeping at the restaurant overnight. He would vacuum before going to sleep, so he'd have proof as any intruder would leave footprints in the carpet. Andy said the new owners were affiliated with, The Chinese Mafia, that they were trying to set him up for crimes they'd committed. He told police his questions, especially about money, had made him a target for organized crime assassins. He pointed to the bullet holes in his Jeep as evidence of the threats he'd endured. The problem was, while there were, in fact, bullet holes in Michael's Jeep, he never reported anything to police. Annie told various versions of what happened to the Jeep over a period of months. His emotional distress reached a fever pitch the day before the murders, March fourth, the day before the ownership change became final.

That afternoon, Michael Moore made two phone calls that would change countless lives. One, asking Jordan to meet him at Loghaven early Friday morning, and the other, begging the exiting owner, Poe Chang, to meet with him and another employee that night. At 8:30 PM that evening in a bagel shop in a strip mall, Michael learned that his worst fears were about to come true. According to police reports, Mr. Chang told investigators that Michael had been, quote, after me for some time during the past several weeks as he'd caught wind that he was going to get fired. I felt that I had an obligation to him and the employees to really, truly let them know, end quote. During this two and a half hour conversation, Chang didn't officially tell them they were going to be fired, but he did inform them that it was the intention of the new management to let them go or change it around. Michael was losing the love of his life, and he was losing it to a man he loathed, Jordan Rasmussen. And like a jilted lover, he felt betrayed. He dedicated seven years of his life to Loghaven, and now he was being unceremoniously dismissed, discarded.

Michael didn't go straight home to the apartment he shared with his girlfriend. He told police he went to the restaurant. His girlfriend told police he didn't come home until after midnight. And when he did, he was agitated and withdrawn. He didn't even want to be touched. Michael said very little to her, just muttered those same fears about being ensnared in a mess, masterminded by Jordan Rasmussen. And speaking of the thieving bookkeeper, Michael told her a strange lie. He said that it was Jordan who submitted him to an early morning meeting She begged him not to go. Michael tossed and turned and paced all night long. And then at 5:45 AM, he got dressed and left the apartment. She said he didn't take his briefcase, but he did take his gun, tucked into a shoulder holster under his coat. And later that morning, Bob Van Skiver argued it was in this paranoid distress state that Michael impulsively shot and killed Jordan Rasmussen and Buddy Booth. Michael told the jury about this himself when he took the stand in his own defense. In a strong, clear voice, More admitted killing the two men. It was totally senseless.

I was just terrified, he said. More answered questions direct and succinctly, said he stayed at the scene after the shooting because I had done something terribly, terribly wrong.

I was responsible.

That's why the defense didn't find any evidence of the conspiracy or threats that Michael described. But that was not important in their defense of him.

You have to know that he believes in him. You don't necessarily have to believe him. You can certainly try to verify them and look for evidence that might support those things. But at some point in time, then there becomes a question of relevance. Even if the Chinese Mafia is running Loghaven, for heaven's sake, it doesn't really explain what happened that day, not fully.

The defense strategy was not to prove what Michael Morse said was the truth, but to demonstrate that Michael truly believed his life was in danger. That would mean the crimes were not premeditated, aggravated murder, but manslaughter, and therefore not a capital offense. But the prosecution, they wanted the death penalty. Their arguments after the break. This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. So, listeners, how is your social battery doing these days? Are you feeling drained? Maybe a little burned out? I know I am. It can be so easy to spread yourself too thin to neglect that social battery. And if you don't recharge it, instead of a fun outlet, social gatherings can be draining. I have one word for you, therapy. There is no better way to ensure you have a plan to take care of your emotional battery than finding a good therapist. One of my greatest struggles is boundaries. A therapist once told me, whenever you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. That really changed things for me. It's through learning to set boundaries that we figure out what our priorities really are. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try.

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Quince. Com/theletter. Prosecutor T. J. Sacklos said the investigators never bought Michael Moore's twisted version of events, and neither did he.

Michael Moore's story was that he was in fear of his life because he had been told, Look out, you're in danger with these folks. I'm going, Well, where is it that you would be so afraid that you had to take the gun for the accountant for the meeting that you called and then shoot two people over it. I couldn't get into his head as to why he was thinking the way he was thinking.

Then T. J. Started hearing how people describe Michael.

How bright he was and how accomplished he was. I I came up with the term chameleon. I thought he could change colors to manipulate you. My theory was he made it up to try to justify what he did.

But T. J. Was concerned the jury would be sympathetic towards Michael, this articulate, clean-cut young man with no criminal history.

I was worried about whether they would buy off on his psychological defense of undue pressure or emotion.

Tj also worried that the jury would buy Michael's accusations about Loghaven's owners, that they were affiliated with something Michael called the Chinese Mafia. Though the defense didn't directly pursue that strategy, Michael's claims hung in the air. To be clear, in all the civil litigation that occurred between the owners of Loghaven, and it went on for another decade, there was never evidence of organized crime. But T. J. Thought a jury might latch on to this idea that Michael was the victim. One thing I wondered, did this idea of a foreign criminal enterprise make it easy to villainize someone else, a nameless faceless bad guy who didn't look like Michael or most of the jury?

The Chinese Mafia type thing, that concerned me, and that I would not do good by the victims.

As a prosecutor, TJ worried he'd let the families down if he couldn't convince the jury that Michael to die for his crimes.

I thought they deserved the maximum based on what was done to their fathers and husbands. I thought society shouldn't tolerate that thing, but particularly the killing of Buddy Booth.

His trial strategy was to make sure the jury didn't see Michael Moore's victims as just two dead bodies. The criminal justice process can drain the humanity out of all involved. T. J. Wanted those deciding whether Michael lived or died to see Jordan Rasman Rasmussen and Buddy Booth through the lenses of their loved ones.

All you see is the defendant. You don't see the victim. I talked to the wives. I had to put them on stand to give some perspective for the jury that these were real people. I wanted the jury to know he killed real people.

Neither Carla Booth nor Deanne Rasmussen wanted to be part of the trial proceedings, but they did want justice for husbands, so they agreed. I was shaken. I was scared, yeah. On September eighth, Carla was called to the stand. It felt crowded to me because I felt like I was being closed in on, and I don't like to be in front of crowds. But there she was on the witness stand, all eyes on her, including the man who killed her husband. I remember seeing Michael Moore across from me and him just looking at me, and it scared me. It made me very nervous. I could see that he was cold. He was quite cold. So when you looked at him, you didn't see any remorse? I didn't see any remorse at that time. I remember the bag that they brought out with all the evidence in it, my husband's clothing, and it was bloody. That was hard. It was really tough, and all I could do was cry. But her tears were not just spawned by sadness. They were tinged with rage. I was furious because why would he kill an innocent man? So there on the stand facing Michael Moore, she made it clear what punishment she felt he deserved.

I did when I was testifying, say, an eye for an eye. I didn't think he deserved to be on this Earth. For killing two people, I felt that he deserved to die. The centerpiece of proving Michael deserved the death penalty was his hour-long confession. Prosecutors decided to play the recording of Michael's confession in its entirety during the trial. It It wasn't enough for the jurors to know that he had admitted to killing both men. They wanted those deciding his fate to hear how he justified his actions on the day of the shootings. Michael's confession is the one thing almost everyone associated with this case remembers as uniquely cold and disturbing. For the families, it was the first time they heard Michael describe the last moments of each man's life. How the first bullet hit Jordan in the head, spun him around, and the second penetrated his back as he fell forward into the snow. How Michael was frantically searching for chains that would drag Jordan's body to the bottom of a sump. A hole meant for trash, sewage. And how cold-blooded Michael's explanation was for why killing Buddy was his only option. You know, dead men speak no lies.

I'll put it that way. Remember, that's a voice actor reading Michael's confession. For prosecutor T. J. Sacklos, it was Michael's final violent acts that most disturbed him. What he did as the men lay bleeding face down in the snow. It was these moments that convinced T. J. The only just punishment was the death penalty.

It was the fact that he gave him the coup de grav, that he shot them in the head after they were down. If you're emotionally distraught, You would shoot and they go down and you're done. But he went back. And then the other thing that got me, part of the reason is I wouldn't back off the death penalty, is he was trying to hide the gun, which he did down the sump. And then the original plan was, according to him, was to drop Jordan's body down in the sump. And I went, This guy's just cold-blooded. I'm just not going to back off on this one.

Even Michael's own defense attorney, Ed, who was no stranger to the disturbing realities of violence, was unnerved by his client's confession.

You get over the graphic nature pretty early on, but the sheer senselessness of what had happened.

To this day, it stays with him.

He was chilling. One of the most chilling statements I've ever heard. And I guess because it was so bland, it was so matter of fact. It was as though it was a conversation like you and I are having right now, but that involved the death of two people.

As Jordan's widow, Deanne, sat in the courtroom and listened to the recording, she heard for the first time Michael Moore's accusations against her husband. I mean, it's not a guy I want to mess with. And I didn't realize his devious side until just recently. I mean, I was scared for my life with this guy. That was one of the hardest things of the trial was when they tried to say that Jordan had put himself in this spot that made it that he deserved it. In fact, that was Mike's words at one time. He didn't deserve to live. He didn't deserve to live, yes. Michael didn't just say it in passing. He went on and on about how callous and dishonest Jordan was for an hour. As Deanne listened to some of those accusations, interspersed with gory details about Jordan's final moments, she broke down. I was crying. I think it was at that point that they stopped the trial, and I went out of the room. Jordan's sisters left with her. Just had my support system comforting me. I mean, obviously, they were upset, too. It just took some time to collect myself, and I knew I had to do it in order to go back in the room.

While she was in the restroom trying to silence her grief, defense attorney Bob Van Skiver moved for a mistrial on the grounds that Deanne's show of emotion could persuade the jury to make a decision based on empathy instead of facts. A mistrial would have ended the trial and forced the prosecution to start over. But prosecutor T. J. Sackalos says the judge denied the motion.

He basically said, We're not going to tolerate that, but you've got widows. So There's going to be some of that, and we can't sanitize that out of the courtroom.

For the Rasmussen family, the pain of those accusations added immeasurable agony to a loss they were already struggling to bear. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to go through. To go every day and listen to cold-hearted Mike, his defense attorneys defending him and trying to make Jordan look bad. It was gut-wrenching. I remember coming home every night and just feeling so emotionally spent. I mean, it was hard for me to even think about getting up and going the next day, but you knew you had to. She never considered not going. I had to be there. There was no way that I couldn't be there. For Deanne, grief and motherhood was complicated, but especially during the trial, it was caring for her children in the same ways and in the same home she did with Jordan that turned out to be her lifeline. They actually are what got me through it, is come home and be with the kids because they had... They were children. Just the comfort and the love and just being together as a family. The last day of the trial was a Monday, September 13th. That's when prosecutor T.

J. Sackalos revisited the horror of that morning in detail. How Michael shot Jordan as he cried out, how he gunned down Buddy as he ran away. Then he asked jurors to imagine being Buddy Booth as he listened to Michael Moore shoot Jordan Rasmussen in the head, just 20 feet from where he lay wounded but very much alive. He hears the snow crunch as Moore walks towards him, and he hears a gun cock. Maybe he even heard the shot that ended his life. But defense attorney Bob Van Skyver painted a picture of an emotionally immature man being tossed around by the perfect storm of chaos loss and paranoia. He said, Michael Moore came to see Mr. Rasmussen as a threat, even though no such threat really existed. Because of a soap opera of rumors, innuendos, and half-truths being funneled to the restaurant from employees in the downtown office. It took the jury around six hours to side with prosecutors. They found Michael Moore guilty on two counts of aggravated murder. But the The real fight came two days later, when these 12 strangers would have to decide whether Michael Moore lived or died.

At this the way you're looking for mercy.

Defense attorney Ed Brass says that in 1982, capital murder defense wasn't as sophisticated as it is now.

It generally consisted of putting together as many character witnesses as you could to talk about what life the person had lived and whether or not he was really a death penalty eligible type person. There was a large part of begging that went into it. Please don't execute the person we represent. Try and put a human face on them.

To do that, the defense brought in a long list of friends and coworkers to talk about Michael Moore's potential. Here are pieces of that testimony read by actors. He's committed a crime that is terrible, but he has got a potential that most people in this courtroom don't have. He's extremely intelligent, very intelligent. Very concerned with other people. He contributes to other people's welfare in the future.

When I say the word criminal, Michael Moore doesn't fit into that category.

She was a very conscientious person. Even if he goes to prison, he's going to make a contribution to that prison. Anywhere Michael goes, he's going to contribute.

I don't feel that he's a threat to the community in any way.

Perhaps the most emotional testimony came from Michael's parents. This is an actor reading the plea his father, Edward Moore, made to the jury. He begged for mercy and even hoped for forgiveness.

I appreciate you gave me this opportunity to come and plea for my son's life. I want to also express Mike's mother's and my sorrow for the families, the Boos, the Rasmussen's, your loving through these ordeals in the last couple of days have been heartwarming, and I'm sure that with God's faith and your loving, that there comes a time you'll find in your hearts to forgive Mike. And I say to the people in the jury, Mike's a good boy. Don't send us home today. Roseanne and me, we have been suffering for six months, not knowing whether we have a son or not. I beg you, spare our son for one indiscretion or for one transgression he did with his life.

In his final plea to jurors, Bob Van Skiver, living up to his colorful reputation, gave a graphic description of what imposing capital punishment meant. In 1982, Utah's preferred method of execution was death by firing squad. Bob told jurors that if they sentence Mike to death, he'd be, quote, dragged from his cell one morning. His bowels will turn to jelly, and his hands will be like clay. We'll strap him into a chair so we don't miss. We'll cut out a red heart and pin it over his heart. And on the command, a fire. The life of Michael Patrick Moore will be removed. He told the jury no punishment was going to change what happened. When this trial started, Jordan Rasmussen and Buddy Booth were dead. When this trial ends, they will still be If you want to perpetuate the carnage of March fifth, 1982, you can impose the death penalty. With that, the same jurors left to deliberate yet again.

Felt like time had slowed down to a crawl.

For defense attorney, Ed Brass, waiting for a jury's verdict is a unique suffering.

You feel a sickness in pit of your stomach. Your heart is racing. I mean, racing so much so that you can feel it pounding against your ribs. You can feel it that way. You are in sheer terror at that moment. Everything has been taken out of your hands. You have no idea what's about to happen. It's a terrifying moment, really in every case. Where life is at stake, it's more terrifying, the most terrifying.

It may have felt like forever, but it was only 90 minutes. The jurors fell back into the jury box, and the clerk read their decision. What the jurors decided after the break. So there's this weird situation that I'm in right now. I'm working really long hours, and as soon as my head hits the pillow, all I can do is think about all the stuff I didn't do during the day or the things I didn't finish, the book that I was reading, the album that just started listening to. My mind just goes a million miles an hour and I can't sleep. And that is why I'm so excited to tell you about this new secret weapon, Soothing Sleep. With the Soothing Sleep podcast, you can experience two incredible things in one soothing package. First, let it take you on this immersive journey full of vivid visualizations. Picture yourself on a cozy train ride, strolling through the Smithsonian or exploring the beautiful streets of a European city. Along with these mesmerizing journeys, Soothing Sleep brings you a special special breathing technique to help you relax and get comfortable. It is the perfect blend of visualization and relaxation to ease your mind and prepare you for restful sleep.

The best part? There's no hassle of downloading and paying for a new app. Soothing Sleep is available for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Just search for Soothing Sleep. So whether you're knee deep in work or just looking for a peaceful night's rest, Soothing Sleep will ease you out of your head and into your dreams. New episodes release every Tuesday. Search Go for Soothing Sleep today and embark on your journey to a better night's sleep. That's S-O-O-T-H-I-N-G-S-L-E-E-P. Sweet dreams. Hey, friends, I have a new podcast that I'm hoping you'll add to your must listen list. It's called The Wounds That Do Not Heal, hosted by Tressa braided. Tressa might have been one of those people who quietly endured domestic abuse and then just tried to rebuild her life on her own after divorcing her abusive husband. But she got a call from his second wife asking her if she'd testify on her behalf in a case against him. The two soon realized that they had both gone to the military asking for help at different times. Through a long and arduous case, an unbreakable bond between the two women was formed. Now in the Wounds That Do Not Heal, Tressa is trying to shed light on this often overlooked and very misunderstood issue.

She has a raw and vulnerable storytelling style, and she's very open about both the pain and the resilience she has witnessed while seeking provide help to those who desperately need it. Tressa interviews psychologists, counselors, social workers, and survivors to uncover the harsh realities and the systemic challenges faced by military families. Together, they explore the unique dynamics and complexities surrounding domestic violence within the community, breaking down stigmas and fostering crucial conversations that go beyond the surface. Listen to The Wounds That Do Not Heal wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Moore's life was spared. He would instead get two life sentences. The jurors told prosecutors afterwards they were swayed to show mercy because Michael had no criminal history. For Ed Press, saving a man from the firing squad was a relief, but not much more.

There's no victory in a case where people have passed away because of the of someone else. That never changes. I suppose that's the point when the objectivity that you're compelled to observe goes away and you realize that this is tragic for every single person that's involved in the case. Tragic for the survivors, tragic for the deceased, tragic for the defendant who caused the problems, tragic for the community.

Lead defense attorney, Bob Benz-Kyver shared his feelings with the media after the verdict.

I was worried. Why? It's an awful brutal crime. I think it has a little that can be said in justification for having committed that much carnage. Does he seem to regret what he's done to you? Well, he does regret it. He can't express it, and remorse is difficult for him to show.

And maybe Michael's father understood this about his son, this inability to show remorse. Because he did something that his son didn't. He sought out both widows, left single mothers by the murders, and apologized. Dan Rasmussen said after spending nearly two weeks in a courtroom divided into those who supported the victims and those who supported the killer, she wasn't exactly receptive to a conversation with Michael's father. I just remember there was the good guys and the bad guys. There was no gray area. Where you sat determined who you were. His dad came up to us and expressed his sorrow and his apologies. But it was like Okay, thank you for that, but you're one of the bad guys. It didn't help? No, not at all. Carla Booth recalls Edmore finding her in a hallway before the jurors decided Michael's fate. And he did apologize for what his son has done. It didn't make me feel better. It wasn't his place to apologize. I even felt sorry for his mother and his father. As Carla listened to the jury's decision to spare Michael's life, she was angry. She was hurt. I just remember how upset I was because I wanted more.

Oh, I was glad that they said he was guilty. But then when they read the sentencing, that's when I was upset. I was numb about it. I just didn't think justice was done. As for the Rasmussen's, Jordan's older sister, Leslie, said the family felt like two life sentences likely meant Michael Moore would spend the rest of his life behind bars. And that felt as close to justice as they could get. We knew that he'd be there for a long time, and we wanted that, just for justice.

I was in the courtroom. We were shocked that that happened.

John T. Nielson, the head prosecutor who had promised Jordan Rasmussen's parents the death penalty, was stunned. But then he thought two life terms meant the world would never see or hear from Michael Moore again. He wrote about the verdict in his journal.

Michael Moore was sentenced. He went to prison, and I forgot about him.

You did?

Yeah, literally. I thought, Good for him. Now he can't hurt anybody. I'll go on to the next one.

John T. Believed that was the final chapter in the story, but he was wrong. For the Rasmussen's, their pain would stretch far beyond the courtroom. It wasn't just losing Jordan. It was losing Jordan's reputation to the allegations Michael made about him being a thief and a bully. More earlier indicated that one of the victims, Jordan Rasmussen, was taking money from the company. He said he was stealing $200 a day from the restaurant and giving the money to Rasmussen on his orders. Michael's fabrications about Jordan weren't just rejected by police and prosecutors. Defense attorney Bob Van Skyver did something unusual as he pleaded for Michael's life. He acknowledged Jordan Rasmussen wasn't stealing, and he made a point of saying he was a man of impeccable character. But none of that eased the enduring sting of those words. Because as the Rasmussons were about to find out, the truth never reaches as far as the lies. Enclosure was a myth. For a few weeks after the sentencing, there was an illusion of finality. There was hope of moving on. And no one felt that more than Jordan's youngest sister, Annemarie Rasmussen. Annemarie was Jordan's third sister, younger than him by 10 years.

When he was killed, she was in England serving an LDS mission. She talked to her family the night he was murdered, but she decided to stay in England and finish her mission. So while her family wrestled with trauma and confusion, while they helped plan his funeral and care for his children, she lived in the insulated comfort of missionary work. She returned to Utah just before Michael Moore's trial, and it was sitting in the courtroom that she learned what happened to her big brother. At that point, I wanted to know everything, and I wasn't afraid of anything. And so that helped me to process his death. But as the trial concluded, she realized the violence had cost her more than her brother's company, his advice, his affection. Because when Michael Moore killed Jordan outside Loghaven, he stole Anne-Marie's secret place, a place where she could ponder problems and dream about her future. I loved Milkert Canyon. I would go up there whenever I had a personal problem. I mean, if I needed searching, that was my go-to place. She celebrated the weddings of both her sisters at Loghaven. She hoped to do the same when she found her prince Charming.

So here I am single. I don't have a boyfriend, but in my head, I'm like, this is where I'm going to have my wedding reception is right out here, right out here where he was killed. So sometime after the trial ended, she decided to make peace with the place. Like her sister's had six months earlier, she got in her car and drove to the restaurant. I remember the first time going up by myself up that canyon because, again, it was a place of refuge for me prior to his death, and I didn't know if I was going to be able to be able to go up there. And so I went by myself. I do remember stopping at Lough Haven, parking there, and actually walking around the premises where it happened. I needed to feel that, feel of what happened there, and to sob and to cry. She laid down on the ground outside Lughaven and let the ache of missing her brother consume her. Just mourning his not being here anymore because he was such a great big brother to all of us. He was so essential to our family. He just was the clue.

And I remember being on the lawn, on the ground, but he eventually did find peace. But that piece wouldn't last, at least not as Jordan's youngest sister felt it at that moment. Life be a reminder of what she lost over and over. And despite their efforts to get to a better place, Michael Moore would make that impossible. Not only did he appeal his conviction, he would make a plea to be released early from prison. Just a year after the jury said he should spend two life sentences behind bars. We'll hear his argument for a second chance in his own voice.

Being within this institution, I've tried to be a benefit to society, repair whatever small ways I can, try to be an asset in some way, make up for what I've done.

Both families would find out that in the criminal justice system, a life sentence doesn't necessarily mean lifelong. So the families would have to keep fighting, fighting to restore their brother's reputation, fighting to find peace, fighting to keep Michael behind bars. And that struggle will lead to questions that will consume them for years. Does everyone deserve a second chance? Why consider forgiveness if there's no remorse? And what no one realizes is that even the smallest choices they make as they try to reclaim their lives will matter, not just to generations of their families, but to people they've never met. Hi, this is Andrea Smarten, a producer on The Letter. If you're curious to know more about the discussions that went on behind the scenes when Amy found out her husband was Michael Moore's lawyer, check out our bonus content. Last week's bonus episode gives you a peek behind the curtain. This week, Amy talks to a crime reporter who was on the scene at Loghaven the day of the murders and was there in the courtroom for the trial. You can subscribe to the Letter bonus content on Apple Podcasts by selecting Lemonada Premium. Follow follow us on social media at The Letter podcast, or check out our website, theletterpodcast.

Com. If you like The Letter, please take a few minutes and give us a rating and write a review. It helps our show get discovered. The Letter Season 2 is written by me, Amy Donaldson and Andreas Martin, who is also lead on production and sound design, with additional help from Nina Ernest and Erin Mason. Mixing by Trent Sell. Theme music composed by Allison Leighton Brown. Voice actors in this episode were Dan Donaldson, Jacob Rummel, Jake Scorheim, and Kate Stone. Special thanks to Becky Bruce, Kelly Ann Halvorson, Ryan Meeks, Ben Keebrooke, Felix Bennell, Josh Tilton, and Dave Cawley. With Lemonada Media, executive producers Jessica Cordova-Kramer and Stephanie Wittelswax. For Workhouse Media, executive producer Paul Anderson. And for KSL Podcasts, executive producer Sheryl Worsley. The Letter is a production of KSL Podcasts and Lemonada Media in association with Workhouse Media. People love to pretend that there are simple formulas for living your best life now. Eat this and you won't get sick. Manifest it and everything will work out. But there are some things you can choose and some things you can't. And it's okay that life isn't always getting better. I'm Kate Bowler, and on Everything Happens, I speak with kind, smart, funny people about life as it really is.

Beautiful, terrible, and everything in between. Let's be human together. Everything Happens is available wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, friends, it's Megan Trehner.

And her big bro, Ryan trainer. And her husband, Darryl Sabara. Each week on our podcast, Working on It, we share behind the scenes stories and bring you into our hilarious and heartfelt conversations, and sometimes with amazing guests. We tackle everything from navigating Hollywood to mental health, to Megan becoming a mother, Darryl becoming a father, and so much more. We'll get into the nitty-gritty of our lives and leave no detail behind. Prepare to laugh, cry, and hopefully learn something new. Listen to new episodes out every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.