Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions in Nashville, Tennessee. It's The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. And we're talking about building wealth, your workplace, people you love, people you're in relationship with, your in-laws, all of it. It's 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls live. It's 888-825-5225. I'm John. This is Jade, and we are ready to rock and roll. Let's go to Madison, Wisconsin, and talk to Kathleen. What's up, Kathleen?

Hi there. How are you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up?

Well, I was just calling my student. I have two children. They just both recently graduated from college. Both have significant debt, student loan debt. These are parent plus loans, by the way, for a total of $400,000. With both of them, and they're not able to make their minimum wage or their minimum payment, so I'm picking up the slack. Also, I have other financial concerns Why did you sign for a parent plus loan? Because when you go to college, that's what they tell you to do.

Okay. What does it look like you picking up the slack? What does that mean?

The loans are split into two different… My son's and my daughter's. My daughter owes probably around 300,000.

Is he a doctor?

No, they're both engineers, and they both have jobs now, and they both make pretty decent money for being right out of college.

What do they make? What does that mean?

My daughter makes about 60,000. My son makes about 55,000 a year.

That's not a good job for an engineer, he owes $300,000.

Right.

Are they single? Do they have families?

They are both single. My son does live with his girlfriend, and she's also an engineer. My daughter does live at home with us, my husband and I, and she's paying as much as she can out of her paycheck every month. Her loan is probably around 4,500 a month, and she probably pays about 4,000, and I pick up the other 500. My goodness. My son actually just got a job in April. So he had been a year out of school without... He was working for my husband, he's self-employed, but making minimum wage, just over minimum wage, about $18 an hour.

Tell me a little bit more about the inception of this. When you picked up these parent plus loans, because typically a parent plus loan is the parent is signing for it, therefore the parent plans to pay it unless you've stipulated something else. What was the original agreement? Was it, Hey, we're taking these out because we're going to pay for it, or, We're taking these out and you guys are going to pay them back. And by the way, it's going to be this much money. That was the agreement.

Yeah, that was the agreement that they would pay them back.

And did they know how much they were taking out at the time?

Yes. Okay. So my daughter… There's a lot of things involved, but My daughter actually went to a private school for eight years. My son went to a public school for seven years. We had some deaths in the family.

Okay. And then my next question is, was there any piece of you that said, Hey, don't do this, or you guys were like, Yeah, just tell me where to sign.

Yeah, you can blame the system, but at some point, $300,000, mom.

Yeah. Well, at first, you're going to go to school for four years. Okay, it's going to cost this X amount of dollars, and then you don't make it four years. Now it's X amount of dollars. My daughter did say to me about five years or six years into this, I don't know if I can finish school. I said, Well, it's too late now. You have to. Because you have student loan debt that you have to pay, and you quitting and not getting a good paying job is not going to pay those.

At this point, can you answer this question for me? Are you paying the $500 because your name is on this and you're trying to protect your credit and protect your whatever, or are you paying on this because you feel that you should help? Because if we're just looking at it as it is, if the agreement was, and if I called your daughter and son today and said, was the agreement that you would pay these back? And they said, Yes, that was the agreement. And so they corroborate your story, then they just need to pay them. And that's that on that. Now, if you're like, Hey, they can't pay them, and this is jacking with my credit. Then I'd say, Okay, yeah, you made your bed, and you have to lay in it. And so, yeah, you have to fill in the gaps because you were a co-conspirator on this. And so there's no way out of this other than somebody pays these loans. And they're at fault because they said, Hey, yeah, I'll pay them back. But Mom and Dad, you all are at fault, too. This is not good. It's not good.

Yeah, I agree. I think a lot of things need to change with the higher educational system.

Yeah, but hold on.

But I'm not there to do that.

Yeah, Kathleen. It's like, well, they just told us to. They did, but, man, you all signed them. I think until you take ownership of this, and it might mean you have to go get it- I have definitely taken ownership.

Do what? I have definitely taken ownership I mean, I am paying the student loans back. I know that they need to be paid, and if they can't pay them, then I'm responsible for that. I know that.

But hold on. You have have created a world that your kids are dictating what you do, and that's how we end up here. At some point, as my friend Henry Cloud says, they have to get some problems. They can say the words, We can't pay these bills, because they know you're going to pick up the slack, despite the agreement you all made. If they didn't have you as a backstop, they'd have to figure something out, which means your son would have to get an engineering job making more than 50 grand. He'd also have to deliver pizzas and Instacart on the weekends. He'd have to live in a one bedroom apartment.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they know all of that.

But they're not doing it. You're picking up the slack, and they know that. Until you sit down with a conversation and say, Okay, you got two more months, and then I'm not spending another penny. You all are on your own. They're going to go, Yeah, right. Then It happens. Until you hold that boundary, they're not going to... Why would they? They haven't their whole life. I know a number of parents, when I was working at the university system, Jade, that would tell their kids, You got four years. Oh, yeah. That's all I'm paying. If you need to go to year five and six, it's on you. You better get your grades done. You better get your work done because I'm paying for four years. That's it.

Yeah. I think it's good when you put the steam on a little bit, especially because your name is on these. I remember similar, but not really similar. My husband and I had student loans, and many of them his mom signed for. She was like, You need to pay these loans because I'm trying to buy a house, and this is messing with my credit. There's part of it that's like, It just is what it is. I remember us going back and forth being like, Listen, you signed for these, too, so you're going to have to be patient. It just creates a rift in those relationships that, unfortunately, really doesn't go away until they're paid off.

That's exactly right. I don't think there's going to be any urgency for these kids to pay these off as long as they're living in your house. Making half of what they should be making out in the marketplace because mom's going to bail us out. I think you have to step up and say, Here's a boundary. I've never held boundaries like this for you, you two. These are new, but these are going to be in stone. This is the Ramsey Show.

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That was the...

Dude, we should have a sound effect company. We're amazing. Join Dave, me, Jade, and all the Ramsey personalities for seven days in a boat.

Ship, John.

On a boat. I'm on a boat.

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John, we have all of these special guests. I have one more, just a really great reason for you to go on this cruise. If you're looking for entertainment, I've got that.

What's that?

I have the quintessential cruise story, but you can only hear about it directly from the camel's mouth if you come on this cruise. It has to do, John, with a cruise that I once went on where everybody... Guys, if you don't know, I used to work on cruises. I once went on a cruise where everybody there was nude. It was a nude charter. I didn't know it when I went to perform on the cruise. And so 2,500 people- Then you find out seven days at sea. Thank God it was five days. If you want to hear the craziest stories you've ever heard, let's chop it up at dinner time, and I'll tell But you have to go on the cruise in order to hear it.

I can also tell you this. When Jade tells the stories, her rods and cones have been burned out of her skull.

It takes me away to that special place for sure.

Listen, the VIP upgrades are already sold out. Everybody's going to be wearing clothes.

That's right. Thank God.

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It's going to be awesome.

Jersey, Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, The Bahamas. Everybody in the club is getting tipsy. It's going to be so good. Let's We go out to New York, New York, and talk to Dave. What's up, Dave?

Hi, John. Hi, Jay. Thank you so much for taking my call.

You got it, man. What's up?

I have a little bit of a work dilemma. I found out that I'm eligible for a voluntary severance package program, and I'm debating whether or not I should take it.

Tell us more. Do you like your job?

Well, I like my team, the job itself. I'm not really too interested in the field, although it's what I've been doing for most of my professional career. In hindsight, it might not be a lot of money, but I'm currently debt-free, and I would feel pretty confident that I would be able to get another job if I were to stay in the same field.

Why don't you do what you actually want to do?

I guess that's part of it is I'm not too sure what career I would want. I know that if I were to stay in the field, I currently work in tax. I'm an accountant.

Okay.

And so I'm depending Whether or not I should take advantage of this program, even though I've only been with this company for a handful of years and move on to something else, or if I should stick it out here.

What would you have done if they never offered you the severance package?

Would you be looking? I probably would have stayed. Originally, when I took this job, I realistically didn't see myself staying for more than five or six years.

To what? To what end?

The end goal would eventually be to get a job and relocate out of state or find something more remote.

But get a job doing what?

I, right now, what I'm currently doing, and hopefully, try to transition to something else once I have a better picture of what that is.

Is there something financially that's on fire in your life that's making a bigger chunk of money look good to you?

No, not particularly. I'm set free.

Okay. What is the severance package?

So between the severance package, stock options, and unused PTO, Before it taxes, it would be around 32, 33K.

What do you make a year?

Course salary is 93,000.

Okay. So they're paying you four months salary, basically.

Yeah.

Here's my bigger concern. It sounds like you keep waiting for your life just to show up for you, and that's just not how it works. Because if you're going to quit this job and go work that you You love the job, but you love your team, and they dangle a couple of months of salary in front of you and you bail, but you're not bailing towards a different career that you actually want or management that you want or a different state than you want, but you're just going to go to another tax place in the same town. The only risk you have here is you're gambling 30 something thousand dollars on having a team that's awful versus the known. If you were telling me this is going to be my break, I'm going to I'm going to take four months and retool. I'm going to work really hard. We're going to give you, Ken Coleman's, get clear assessment. Like, what do I actually want to do? How is AI going to impact just basic tax work? Is this job going to be here in five years? You need to ask those questions and then get serious about taking steps towards what's next.

If you think your company is going to close down around you in the next six months, then yeah, I would take the first exit off the ramp. If you have another job lined up and you're ready to rock and roll, I would take the first exit off, take the 30 grand and run. But all you're telling me is, No, I don't really like this, but I'm just going to take their money and keep doing the same thing somewhere else, and I'm pretty sure I can get something else. You see what I'm saying? It just feels like wet bread, just milk toast, just to, to, to, to. I just don't think it's a good path for anybody.

Yeah. I guess it's the unknown. That's the fear for if they're offering something like this now, then do they anticipate layoffs or terminations within the next year or two. Is it something that I should take advantage of right now?

That's where my mind was going, to be honest. I wanted you to ask more questions around this offer. I think that's one of the things I would go back and do if you have a leader. You said you like the people you work with, so hopefully you have a leader that you can trust and say, Hey, tell me more about this. What's coming in the future? Is this you guys trying to take care of me now before things get worse? Just have a couple of candid conversations because that'll tell you a lot as well, as opposed to guessing and being afraid to ask.

Will they be honest with you?

Yes.

Okay. I think Jade's guidance is wise. Every place I've ever worked as a senior leader, when we offered buyouts, it was always a precursor to, If this doesn't solve our problem, we have to go to the next level, which is letting people go. That was 100% of the time. I can only speak in my experiences, but it happened at multiple places.

I don't see why it wouldn't be. Other Otherwise, what's the point?

Yeah, exactly. That was my thought process. It's unknown of their underlying tones of the business is doing poorly, and they're offering this to employees, and Is this something I need to take and then jump ship before I'm out of a job?

Here's how I would not walk up to my supervisor and say, Hey, I'm thinking about taking this money, because then you've already set sale. Now, their job is to talk into following your instinct because they don't want someone on their team that is halfway in. I would sit down and say, Hey, this is really strange. I love working here with this team, and the whole idea is making me uncomfortable. We all work in numbers, and so we all know how math works. What's the real picture here? Then hopefully, they'll tell you, Yeah, it's pretty dicey. A good supervisor would say, You're going to be fine no matter what. I would hope you stay. Or a good supervisor who loves you, who knows it's getting dicey, will tell you, Hey, bro, take take the train out of town. It's a good run. But I love Jade's wisdom here. And dude, I just want to lean on you, man. You only get one life, bro. And the more you just, In five or six years, I just hope it changes, it's not going to. It's going to be the exact same life in five or six years unless you actively, right now, seek to change it.

Hang on the line. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's brand new book, and the GetClear assessment, and get you hooked up and get you thinking about what comes next. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show.

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What up? What up? I'm John. This is The Ramsey Show, joined by my good friend Jade Warshall. We're taking your calls on money and life and work and relationships and your mental health, all of it. 888-825. 5225. Let's go out to the SLC and talk to Will. What up, Will? How are we doing?

Hey, John.

Hey, How are we doing? We're doing all right, man. How about you?

Well, I could use you do a little bit better. What happened? Just trying to figure out where I go from here.

What happened?

I run a business. We've been doing this for about two months now. It's a distribution company. What we do is we distribute sod around all of the Salt Lake Valley. Cool. Yesterday, I got home for my morning deliveries. I parked the truck and went home to go get some lunch. I get a call from one of the neighbors saying, Are you on site? I say, No. They say, Well, your truck's on fire. I rush over there. I can see smoke from my apartment. By the time I got there, the whole thing was just gone.

Got to change that oil, bro.

Do you have enemies? Do you have enemies out there?

I don't know. I really don't know. Bro, hey, listen, I've seen this movie. It's a Rival Sod Company.

Yeah, probably what it is.

It's game on in Salt Lake City. So what happens?

The truck's on fire.

Truck's on fire. I roll up, and cops and fire departments everywhere. They're trying to put it out. Luckily, no one was hurt. I keep thinking that this was probably the best place for it to happen. On the side of the road, at my base of operations, no one was hurt, anything like that. Truck was fully insured, so we're good there.

But- Okay. How can we help, man? Other than just being sad with you.

My question is, where do I go from here? I'm financially speaking. Because I know this is going to… My assumption is that I assumed the truck was worth about 70,000. It was fully paid off.

Okay, so it's worth 70. What's the insurance given you?

I assumed it was worth 70. I bought it for 35, but I felt like it was a good deal at the time, and I know trucks that are worth that much.

What's insurance giving you?

I don't know yet. The adjuster talked to me this morning. We're just waiting on claims for the adjuster to come out, look at it, and determine what the value was on it.

So they need to turn that around real quick and tell me you have a business contingent on this truck, and then I'd go rent a truck for the time being.

Yeah. So what I've been doing is I've been subcontracting out the truck. I still make a margin on the product itself. So I've just been in full truck shopping mode. But my question is, I guess, fully on a more just level. I'm looking at this as a baptism by fire, I guess you could say, and saying, how do I set the business up from here to succeed?

Don't do anything stupid. And you're about to, so don't.

Yeah, I don't think one… It's almost like one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other. The truck's on fire. Insurance is going to come out. They're going to give you… If you said it was fully covered and you had the right coverage, you're going to get the money you need to replace it at value. Here's the thing. Let's pretend that they don't give you as much as you feel like they should have. Still only spend what they give you on the next truck. This is not an excuse to go into debt on the next one. You said that you got the other one at a crazy deal, and he went, really, it was only worth You spent 35,000. Hopefully, that's what they'll give you, and you can spend that again.

Well, and also, you call it a great deal. Dude, it caught on fire. It wasn't that great of a deal, right? Yeah, fair enough. It wasn't that great of a truck. So maybe spend 50. If they give you a check for 70, spend 50, put the other 20 in a bank account for your company. You, though, are about to go buy a $120,000 truck, aren't you?

No, I am not. My mindset has always been frugal. I don't like spending more than my But so- So then what's the other part of the question when you're saying, How can I set my business up to succeed from here on out?

Tell us where you don't feel like you are succeeding, and then we can help you out.

Well, I guess the big thing is financially, I just want to know, how do I structure this business to succeed? So I'm fully out of debt. All I have is account payable and my lease, and that's about it.

Okay, good.

I just want to make sure that I'm on the right track. You are. Yeah, you are.

And You just got hit in the mouth. That's it.

You're moving at the speed of cash. The best possible thing that you can do is move at the speed of cash and not be tempted to do things. I'm going to put it like this, do things to prove that you have a business, which is buying things that you don't really need, buying a bunch of equipment or merchandise or office space that you truly don't need, hiring people before it's time just so you can be like, I've got employees, all that stuff. As long as you're moving at the right time and you're not doing anything for show and you're moving at cash, I think for where you are and what you're doing, I think you're right on track. Just keeping good books, making sure that you know your numbers. That's the best you can do.

Let's flip this around. Let's say you were like most small business owners in America who's starting a business. You would owe $50,000. You would have bought an $85,000 truck that burned to the ground. They're going to write you a check for 40 grand, and you'd owe $40,000. You can't see it because you just watched your truck, your livelihood, burn up in front of you the other day. Jade and I are sitting here saying, You're doing this exactly right. You had a fully insured, paid-off truck just for this moment. So that if it catches on fire and explodes in the neighbor's driveway, you're just going to get a check for another one. You're going to go get another used truck and keep right on going. You're doing it right.

Okay. Maybe I just need a little bit of reassurance on that.

You're good, man. You just worked something pretty dramatic. I hear- Your whole business felt like it burned up in front of you. I know.

I think it's ironic. I've been starting the story of Joe for the last week, and this is what happened.

We always tell people, When you start a business or you start trying to get on the same page with your partner with money, expect Murphy to show up. It's just going to test your boundary and see how honest and committed you are.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. By the way, there's no chance they give you a $70,000 check.

Here's what I want you to be I knew that. That's why I'm over-evaluating. Okay, but here's what's going to happen. They're going to write you a check for 60, which is what? 20 more than you paid for it, 30 more than you paid for it, and you're going to feel like they stole 10 grand from you, and it's going to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Just be very open-handed. What's the truck actually worth when it exploded? And then take that money and go buy yourself a cash truck.

Okay.

And they keep right on going. How's your business doing?

Yeah. Are you making money?

You know what? I can't complain. I think within two months, we've grossed about $150,000 so far. As far as the small business goes, I can't complain. What's your net?

I think we're doing- What are you netting?

Net I believe as of right now, we're about 85.

Okay.

Eighty-five thousand or 8,500?

Eighty-five thousand.

Okay. How many of you guys is it?

This is me. This is me. I'm a one-man show. Okay.

What are you taking home? Are you Are you buying yourself? Are you taking everything out of the business or are you reinvesting?

Like I said, I live as frugally as possible. So I make sure my builder paid on the outside. I pay rent and food on my personal side and my personal vehicle. And that's about as far as fuel and stuff like that. But that's about it.

Hold on, homie. You made $42,000 in your first two months as a small business owner? Yeah. That's better than I can't complain.

I'm very grateful for where I'm at.

Yeah. Hold on. I want to hear you celebrate it. I can't complain. I hate that attitude. Say, Dude, I'm actually crushing it. I did my research. I'm serving my community. I'm serving a need, a glitch in the market, and I'm making it happen. Say that.

You know what?

I'm making it happen.

There you go. There you go. Making $40,000 a month, dude. That's good money, no matter where you are.

Yeah. No, I agree. All right.

Keep at it, man. How do I get on the right page? You're on the right page. If you're hiring, holler at me. Just shoot me a direct message because that's really good money. But, Jade, it's easy when things go sideways to feel like it's all coming down. It's not. 100 %.

Plus, he's a brand new business owner, so he's just shaking it in his schnikes anyway.

Dude, good on you, Will. I'm proud of you, man. I'll send you George Campbell's resume. He's probably going to want to... Actually, he's not really an outdoor guy. Nah. Nah.

He would hire though, to put down his side.

He definitely would. No question. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, it's Deloney, and wow, 2024 is flying by. So let me ask you, what's something you're proud of so far this year? What's something you wish you could change direction on? It's important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, and it's also important to make adjustments for the rest of the year when you need to change. Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months and beyond. Therapy is a safe, effective place to learn how to say hard things out loud and make a realistic plan for moving into the future. I've personally been blessed to have a great therapist who helps me get heavy things off my chest, and you can find a great therapist, too. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, convenient, flexible, and suited to fit your schedule. You just fill out a brief question to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra money.

Take a moment and be intentional for the rest of 2024 with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, h-e-l-p. Com/delonie. Hey, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. If you, like the rest of us, are wringing your hands at the state of the world economy and your frustration about how your neighbors are spending money that they don't have and Congress is spending money they don't have, here's what you can do. You can sit in your house and watch all the news channels and get all red-face and scream and yell and solve nothing, or you can start to change how your house operates. If you want to provide a gift to your neighbor, you can do something as simple as sharing the show, subscribing to the show, putting a thumbs up, or I don't know how they it on the internet these days, but just letting the folks know, the five-star reviews, whatever it is, letting the internet know, I like this show and other people should watch it, and it puts it in the algorithm, and it gets it to your neighbors, and to their neighbors, and to their neighbors.

This country is going to change household by household, kitchen table by kitchen table. That's how we get it done. Like the show, subscribe the show. It doesn't cost anything but 10 seconds of your time. It makes a huge difference for people getting this popping up on their feed and then going down what we call Ramsey Rabbit Hole, and suddenly they decide, Hey, I'm going to change my household, too. So thank you so much for supporting the show in the way you do. It means the world to us, but more importantly, it means the world to your neighbor. All right, let's go out to Greenville, South Carolina, and talk to not Drew, but Drew. Hey, Drew. What's up, man? Hey, how's it going? We're doing great. How about you?

I'm doing great. Thank you guys for all that you do.

Thank you, man. What's up?

Yeah. So I have a question. My wife and I are We're deciding when would be a good time to upgrade our home and how we should go about doing that. My wife stays at home, and she homeschools our four kids, and they're all under the age of 10. The primary income, she does a little bit of work on the side to help supplement implement the income there. We do not have any debt. We have the emergency fund that's fully funded, and we're in that baby step, four or 6 area. Okay. What's your income? Our take home is around $130 a year. We're currently in a house, and what's Our house's left on that mortgage is $2.29, and the house is probably worth about $2.85 somewhere in there. But our house is only about 1,200-1,300 square feet. Having four teenagers in a house that small does not really look attractive to us.

What are you trying to do to it?

I'd like to, at some point, sell it and move into a larger home within the next two or three years.

Okay. So we're just moving up. We're not doing additions or anything like that. I like it.

Yeah, we thought about an addition, but I'm just not sure it makes sense. It's an older house, and Just not sure it would be the best fit for us.

So you owe $2.85 on the current mortgage. Did I get that right?

No, $2.29.

On the current mortgage.

$2.29.

Is what it's worth. $2.85. Got it.

Okay. And so how How much are you trying to move up? What are you trying to spend here?

As we've been looking in the housing market, I'm thinking somewhere from 4 to 4.50 is probably where we need to be.

Okay. And so is the plan that we're going to take the winnings from the sale of this house, which is not going to be an incredible amount after fees? Right. What do you think you'll take home after fees?

Yeah. I'm hoping maybe around 35 to 40, but I really would like to do this in the next 2-3 years. I wanted to talk to you guys about how can I use the next 2-3 years to be able to make that gap greater between what the house is worth and what I owe. Obviously, I can pay it down, but what's the best path for me to be able to get in to upgrade into a home in that price range we were talking about?

I think it's twofold. I think that, yes, continue to make extra mortgage payments. You've got that margin there. In that way, it's just a forced savings account, right? Which I like that because It's different from piling up money in an HYSA because then you think, Oh, I've got this money here. You know what? We do need a new vehicle. You know what? We do need to take a trip to Europe. It's easy to look at that money for other things. In this case, technically, you guys are on steps four, five, and six. I would act in that way and put extra payments towards the mortgage and continue to do that. Now, if it did make you feel better to say, Yeah, I'm also going to stack up some cash for a down payment, I'd probably do both of those things. That you've got both of those things there.

So do those things simultaneously.

Yeah, because I think you've got the margin to do that. Then, I think you know our rule of thumb, you'll know that you're ready when you can get this $400,000 house, when you're able to put the write-down payment down that allows this to be no more than 25% of your take home all in. That's including things like homeowners association fees.

Yes.

Okay. The ideal mortgage is a 15-year. What are you in now?

Currently, we're in a 30-year Yeah, definitely not ideal. We just came into Baby Steps 4, 5, 6, so we want to start throwing money at the mortgage. We don't have a great rate. We We had to move at a time when it wasn't ideal. We're hoping maybe in the future to be able to refinance, or maybe if we buy an upgrade, that when we move into a 15-year mortgage, that the rates will be lower.

Here's what I want to challenge you on, and this is just take it or leave it. The whole point is to be debt-free. The point is to be free, to live free, to live in a home that you pay for. I do worry about... I mean, you guys make a good income. Right now, you owe $2.29. That's not crazy. I would hate for you to refinance into... I would hate that you go into more mortgage for a longer term because so many people say, Oh, I'll get the 30 year and pay it like the 15, or I'll get the 30 year, and then when I'm ready, I'll refinance. But life-lifes, and the next thing we know, something else takes that priority or takes that place. That's the only thing that I would caution you against on. There truly is a piece of this where you may not be ready to upgrade simply because of that alone.

Yeah.

Okay. No, that's good. You know what I mean? So weigh that out with your wife because the affordability part does include the style of the loan.

Right. Yeah. It may just take a couple more years of me having a lot of kids in a small house.

You'll get to know each other real well. That's right.

Well, and Drew, you You sound a lot like me, so I don't want to project my experience onto you, but you've got a lot of different ideas all happening at the same time. I think I'm going to refit. What if we just put an apartment on top of this garage, and I'm also going to spend my spare minute scrolling the housing market in town, and I'm going to spend a little bit of time being frantic about our rate. I'm also going to be a little... What if we just... I'm going to look up high yields.

Yeah, you're reading me like a book there.

Okay, so that's me. Here's what we do. We're like the running back who just runs east to west, side to side, 100 yards, but we only make three yards down the field. We don't go anywhere. We make our wife tired. We make our kids exhausted. Here's what I would love you and your wife to sit down. This is the only way my wife and I have been able to find peace in these type of journeys. Let's have a number we're going to have saved up before we move, period. If you decide, All right, I'm going to buy a $400,000 house. I'm going to get 80 grand down payment. I'm going to have no PMI. What do we have to do to get 80 grand? We're going to sell this house. We're going to hopefully get 40 for it. That means I got to make $40,000 in cash in an account. Ready? Go. Now we're not looking at other things. We're not spinning our wheels. Our whole house is focused on getting this number in that account, and then it's going to trigger the next move. Now, we're going to go buy a house. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's great. I think I would just I offer this to you guys, too. My wife and I have been using every dollar now for four to five months, and it has completely changed how we communicate, completely changed how we budget, and we're It's like a competition every morning. Who can drop the expenditures into the bucket? And are we, is anything in red?

Wow, we love to hear that.

Dude, that's amazing, man. That's amazing. We love it. We couldn't even pay for that commercial. Thank you, Drew. Thanks to you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be back. Live from Ramsey Solutions in Nashville, Tennessee. It's The Ramsey Show. We help people with their money, with their relationships, with their work, with just about everything. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls on your money, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your work, everything. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona. God, it's hot. Talk to Brenda. Hey, Brenda.

Hello. It's a pleasure to speak with you.

Thank you. You, too. Hey, is it a thousand degrees right now?

Not yet, but it's just about there. Okay.

My goodness. Just 999. Good grief. I don't know how you all do it. All right. What's up, Brenda?

My question essentially is, how do I not feel guilty or You're selfish for wanting to sell my house?

Why would you feel guilty or selfish? I need more. Yeah, tell us more.

Sorry, I just got nervous.

We got you.

The house is mine. The house is mine. It's in my name. Sorry.

That's okay. Hey, Brenda, take a big, big deep breath as deep as you can, all the way to your guts.

I'm going to do it, too.

Hold it. Three, Three, two. All right, now let it out. All right. Pull your shoulders all the way down. I can hear them up by your ears.

Pull them all the way down. The house is mine. There is seven of us. We're a household of seven, essentially. We have my two boys and then my boyfriend with his three boys. If I decided to sell my house, it would be because I want to pay off my debt and it would me into Baby Step 4, 5, and six. It would cause everybody to move, and essentially, my boyfriend would have to do his thing, but he'd have to pay more out of pocket as well for his living situation. So selling my house would really only benefit me in this picture.

Why hasn't he married you yet?

You won't. Okay.

How long have you been together?

Three and a half years. Okay.

He has forced you to take care of you. All you're doing is what a responsible adult would do when another adult says, I want to make a commitment with you. I want to play house, and I want to have all the benefits of being with you without commitment. He's forcing you to have to take care of you as a single mom. Right?

Yes. Yes.

Your instincts are right.

Okay.

Yeah. I mean, there's no... John, stop me at any point. But in my mind, I'm like, there's no together. There is no us. So why do you want me to operate out of an us? You've made it very clear. And so that's where I'm at. The two kids. So you said he's got three boys that are his, and you've got two boys that are Yeah. You guys have any children together?

No.

Listen. No. This is a major red flag, and I am… For me, It's a no.

Brenda, there's something else going on. What is it?

No, it's just I think I just needed that validated in talks That's what I've asked him to move out already, and he just ignored that request. I'm just like, Well, maybe I should sell my house.

That's what I'm telling you. There's something else going on here. What is it? Is he safe?

He's a bully.

Yeah. No, we're We just don't… I mean, like you said, he hasn't committed. He won't commit. He's made comments that he will never put a ring on it, though. I know that that's there. I just don't like the idea of moving and uprooting my children.

But you don't have to uproot your family. You can call the police and have them remove somebody from your home.

Yeah. It's not unsafe. It's not an unsafe situation. No.

Anybody who's- He's broken up with you. He won't leave.

That's a bully move. I'm not saying that he's screaming at you and beating you or something, but I'm saying that if I've asked a male to leave my home and he won't leave, it's because he knows, and you can't make me. That's at the for the dot, dot, dot.

I got you. You see what I'm saying? I have bigger muscles, and you can't push me out of here. That's what 911 is for. I know that sounds ridiculous, but Jade and I do this for a living. Deal with hot-headed men that think they can push women around. He has broken up with you. He has looked you in the eye and said, There is no future for us, but I'm going to live here. I'm going to get what I want, when I want, and you're going to pay for my sons to grow up in your house.

Yeah, I think in his eyes, he hasn't broken up with me because he thinks everything's fine, even though I'm the one telling him I want him to move out.

But do you see the disrespect there or just the lack of even hearing or seeing you?

I definitely feel it. Yeah.

Your gut's right. Okay. You have two strangers validating you. But if you want to sell this house and get out of debt, we'll talk you through that. But I don't want you selling your house to run away from him because it's your house.

Well, I mean, financially, I should sell it as well. The mortgage and housing expenses take up 50% of my income. Okay, yes.

Yes, ma'am. Sell the house.

Sell it. I just felt like If I sold it, I could pay off all my debt and move forward.

What will you do? Rent an apartment or rent a house?

I'd probably rent a house for two years or so.

Have you priced that out? Because rent is super high.

Especially in Phoenix.

Right, but it's less than what I'm paying now. How much less? My mortgage is 3400, so I can probably get a three bedroom house, I think, for Okay.

And what's your take home pay every month? I grow.

Take home? Well, I grow with 100,000, so take home is probably 6,065.

Okay. Yeah. I want you looking at those numbers really closely. We're going to set you up with every dollar so that you can see those numbers because I want you knowing exactly how much money you bring home every month. That's going to get you closer. I have every dollar. That's going to get you closer.

You do? Very cool.

I have the premium version. I didn't have that number in front Okay, no worries.

I don't have that. No worries. I think that renting is a good idea, I think, to get you out of this because long term, unless you told me, Yeah, I see a path, Jade, to where in a year this will be different for me financially. But if you don't see that, then yeah. How long have you lived in the house?

Two and a half years.

Okay.

Yeah, I do that. Are you going to make any money on it?

Yeah. It should come out with about 150,000.

Okay, great. Let me confirm what your boyfriend says about you. Yes, you're being selfish. You're taking care of you. That is 100% the position he has put you in. As a mom, that is your job to take care of you and your boys. Period.

Thank you so much. When you sell this house, I want you to get the best possible help and get top dollar. I want you to go to rs. Com/agent and find one of our real estate pros to help you with this, okay?

They're going to get you hooked up. Man, I got all kinds of thoughts. I'm going to keep them to myself. Keep them to yourself, John. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. All right, today's question of the day comes from Shana in Canada.

Yeah, she says, I'm seeking advice on how to explain the benefits of combining our accounts to my husband. He brings in the a majority of income as I am a part-time teacher and mom. He often has to electronically transfer money to me, which I've explained feels degrading. I want us to be a team, but he refuses to budge on linking our accounts. What should I say to him? I feel as if I'm a burden. I am so sorry. Oh, gosh, I'm so sorry. It shouldn't feel that way. I have things I want to say, but John- No, you say it. Okay, I was going to say, I thought I saw a twinkle in your eye, but I'll get into it.

It was rage. It was anger is what you saw. Yeah.

First off, I just want to affirm that, yeah, you're right. You should be combining accounts. I love that you've... It sounds like you've used a great vocabulary in explaining the way this feels. You're saying, Hey, this is degrading to me. I feel like I'm a burden to you. It's not just like, We should combine our money, and you're keeping us from doing that. It sounds like you've expressed yourself well on this, and I hate that he has disregarded your emotions. This is a case for counseling in counseling alone, and I'll let John get into the rest.

I just think any time you look at a romantic partner and say, This thing that you're doing is degrading to me, and they look at you and go, Who cares? I don't care. Then your relationship has fundamental foundational issues. This isn't about money and savings accounts. You're beyond that. This is about power. I feel like I'm just a bill that you have to pay every month. You are. You are.

Well, then there's a part of me, and I don't like reading into people's situations when I don't have all the information, but I think we've done this long enough that we start to know. For me, there's this piece of it like, Okay, but then what are you hiding?

Always.

What are you hiding? Always. If you don't want me to see this, if I can't have access to it, if I have to ask you, what is it that you're trying to keep me from?

Or what are you spending money on that you don't want me to know about? That you don't want me to see. Yeah.

Right.

And anytime you're in a relationship with anybody, mother, daughter, father, son, romantic, work relationship, if one person in that relationship feels like a burden, not to get too dark, but that's one of the three legs of the stool when you're doing a suicide assessment. If somebody says, I feel like the world is better if I'm not here. The greatest gift I could give the people who love me is to not be here because I'm a burden. I'm super sensitive to that word. When somebody has to keep asking their husband, Hey, I'm taking care of all the kids, and I'm teaching. We need some grocery money? Hold on. Let me electronically send it over. Let me Venmo it to you. Man, in my guts, that hurts, man.

Well, let's take a moment and talk about this on a grander scale, because obviously, Shana, you guys got to get into counseling, and Just to be clear, there's some very clear boundaries that need to be put in place. John, why don't you give her a couple more clues on what these boundaries need to be and timelines?

Well, I think the conversation is, Hey, I've looked you in the eye, the person that I said I commit my life to till death do us part. I've told you that the way we are handling money and the way you are choosing to treat me is degrading. I've asked for a partnership here, and you said, No, I'm unable to communicate this any further. I'm going to go see a counselor, and I'm asking you to come with me because we have some fundamental communication issues.

He's going to say no.

If he says no, then you have to have your or what. Most couples, most people don't like to go there, the or what, because here's what I promise you. She knows, Shana knows there's other things going on here. Yes. That we don't know about. This is never just about the money. This is a part of a bigger picture. The way he treats her, the way he talks to her, the way he doesn't show up, the way he says, mind your business, this is an entire picture in these few little sentences here. It is. Shana, you have to be willing to look in the mirror and say, I'm worth not living my life under the thumb of somebody that treats me like a burden. That means I have to be worth shining the light on all this nonsense. Turning that light on may cost you everything. It may cost you the marriage. He may say, No, I want to flex, and I want to treat you like a child more than I want to be a partner with you, more than I want to be married to you, be your husband. Maybe she turns the lights on and he says, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry, and he comes to- I hope so.

That's my hope, right?

I hope so. Well, let's zoom this out to reach a little bit of a broader audience, because there's something you talk about, a twinkle in your eye. When I see that a couple has to electronically transfer money to and from each other, I talk to couples all the time, John, that maybe they just both agreed, Yeah, we don't want to share our money. We like doing our own thing. And they're Venmoing each for rent and Venmoing each other because they went out to a nice dinner and he paid, and now I have to pay my half. That right there, nothing strikes me as more absurd than me laying in the bed with my husband at night and rolling over and say, Hey, did you remember to Venmo me that 30 bucks you owe me?

Yeah, the $18. We went to Arby's yesterday. Eighteen bucks, remember?

I mean, nothing puts just the kibosh on romanticism quicker than saying, Hey, you owe me 30 dollars for my roast beef sandwich.

Or holding the human that you all created together. Yes. And holding the baby and going, Hey, by the way, I need you to Venmo me 30 bucks for the water bill because... Yeah.

Or what happens? It's so mad. It's madness. What happens if, okay, you have the worst possible day of your life, right? You get fired and you come home, all the confidence is drained out of you. And then on top of all of that, you have to realize, How am I going to pay my wife for rent? How am I going to pay my wife for rent?

Hey, I got you for the next two months, but you're going to have to...

Or what does it look like? Let's go a step further. He makes 200,000 a year. She makes 60,000 a year. He wants to go to Ruth's Chris. He orders a steak, and she gets the side salad because she can't afford. How does this work?

It's a paper machete home. It's not real.

I can't imagine anything more divisive in anything else that would just put so much separation and create almost like a class system in your own home than not combining your money where your money is, your heart is also.

I think ultimately, Jade, that's the challenge In the chaos that is modern-day marriage, I think it's never been more important for kids. I think it's never been more important for us as just individuals. The idea of marriage is becoming so, so important. I honestly think we don't know how to do it. No, we don't know how to do it. I don't think we understand the depths of what that covenant and what that commitment actually means. Dude, I get it that people are like, Whoa, you're going to go all in? It's like, that's the only way that works. People go part of the way in, and then they're upset that it didn't work. Of course, it didn't work because the only way it works is to go all in. That's also the only way you get really hurt. That's the other side of it, right?

That is true.

You got to go all in. It's hard and it's scary, and we don't have a lot of models for what that looks like. But at the same time, if you have the guts to look at your wife with tears in her eyes after she gets home from teaching and taking care of the kids and looks at you and says, I need some grocery money, and you're like, Well, I'll see. Let me see if I can then mow it over to you. God help you, man.

Man. God I'll help you. That's horrible. That's all I'm going to say. I say it all the time. And Sam's like, Jade, why are you telling folks this? But I say it all the time. I'm like, Listen, if I ever came home... Sam Warshall would never even try it, number one. Thank God.

No, he's a great human being. He's one of the best guys I know.

He's a great human I know. Yeah, of course. But if he ever said to me, Jade, you know what? You have the babies. I'll take the bank account.

Here's what would happen. You would never see him again. Here's what would happen. I'd get a call at my house. Hey, John, I need you to help me hide a body. And I'd help you, but I like Sam.

I'd be hard. I'd be like, Sam didn't make it.

I help you, but I like Sam. I wouldn't like that.

He would never try it. Thank God.

Well, and I've never thought of it. I've never thought of what you just said. But can you imagine? I'm trying to imagine. Laying in bed at night, the shades are drawn, and I look over, and I'm expecting like, this might be the night. My wife says, Hey, I need $48 for groceries. Can you just Venmo me real quick?

Then you Yeah, but you already owe me 14 from last week.

Wait, hold on. We went to Chick-fil-A three weeks ago, and you owe me 695. It's the worst. And we out.

Light switch on. We out. Putting on Golden Girls.

Share your accounts. If you're going to share your DNA, share your accounts. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshall. 888-825-5225. Selling the house Selling a house. The Ramsey Way makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find an agent you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and get you the best offer on your house or find the right house for you. I know I just did it. I used a Ramsey Trusted real estate agent recently, and she was amazing. We send you some of the top agents in your area who we trust. You review their stats, interview them, and decide which one you want to work with. Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/agent to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. It doesn't cost you anything. Ramsey solutions. Com/agent. Do it. I just did it. It's good enough for the Deloney family.

It's good enough for you to check it out. All right, let's go to Los Angeles, California, the City of Angels, and talk to Jesse. What's up, Jesse?

Hey, John. Hi, Jade.

What's up, man?

I'm new to the show. Been listening to you guys for a couple of weeks now.

Welcome to the cult, my man.

It's awesome. I was reading the baby steps or going through them, and I realized I was in step two and four at the same time and put me in a pickle with my dad.

You like so many.

All right, so sit back. We're going to give you some Kool-Aid, and we're going to drink this, and then we're going to get it squared up for you. Tell us what's going on.

I have a truck. This is where I feel like I'm the king of backwards. I bought a truck, sold my old… I had an SUV. I ended up having a little… Currently, I have equity on it or I'm upside up on it. It's worth it. I owe 16, and I can get 41 for it.

And that's for a truck? For a truck. You owe 16,000, and you can get 4,100 for or 4,000 for it?

No, Jesse, well played, man.

All right, man. Okay, so what's next?

My question is, should sell it and then start tackling my debt with the net 25 that I would get out of it?

Yeah. How much debt do you have?

I have about 50,000.

Okay. So yeah, definitely doing that deal. Let me go back to the first thing you said, where you said you're at Baby Step 2 and Baby Step 4 at the same time. That means you have debt, but you're investing?

Yes. I was investing 15 % of my net every check.

Yeah. If I were you, I would pause that so that you have more money to pay off the remaining 25,000 of debt that you have, and you can knock it out super quick. What's your income?

I'm grossing maybe 2.5..

Dude, good for you, Jessie. You're crushing it, man. What do you do for a living?

I procurement for a big box company or a big warehouse. Dude, good for you, man.

Congratulations.

Well, thank you. I'm trying, but I still feel like I realized I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Awesome. So that's where I was like, well, I'm listening to you guys. I'm like, Wait a minute. But one thing I did see you guys mention in the previous segment, if it's not half of your income, I believe, for the truck that you owe, should be okay.

Yeah. So we look at your your full income, and it shouldn't be more than half of that. Yeah, you owe 16,000, but that's a rule of thumb, which means there's other things that play into that. Listen, you can do what you want on this, but if the goal is to get out of debt quickly so you can start investing again, then yeah, I would sell it.

Yeah, that's definitely a goal.

What's that truck do for you?

It doesn't do anything. That's the other half. It sits and acts.

Hold on. It does. Dude, I've got an old beat-up truck, and I would love a new one. You know why? Because it makes you feel awesome, doesn't it? Okay, yes. Okay, it does. It does. It's awesome, right? So it gives you... You feel a little bit cool on those Los Angeles streets when you're sitting there parked for four hours a day on the highway, and you're just staring at the people below you. It feels awesome.

Yeah.

You have to be honest about what you're giving up, and you're giving up that. You have a great truck. It's worth a whole bunch of money, and you're going to give all that up for freedom. Because if you're not honest about that, you get rid of the truck in that haunting feeling. I just gave up something that makes your ego feel good, and you're going to go try to make your ego feel better in other ways. You're going to start just chasing. You're going to play Whac-amole with it. If you just go right through the middle of it and say, Yeah, it's cool to have a rad truck. It really is. I'm going to sell it because it's even cooler to have peace and freedom. I'm going to buy a used Corolla and just straight roll the streets of Los Angeles, California, my Corolla. In the Corolla. Everybody's going to be like, Jesse, we know what you make. Jesse, why are you driving a Corolla? You say, Because I'm free. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. You got kids?

I don't. Okay. I do have not a Corolla, but a Nissan, which is equivalent to the Corolla.

Done.

Is that paid for? Is the Nissan paid for? It is paid for. Listen.

Dude, that truck, buy Felicia. Sell it this How's your weekend?

I'm on it. I've already been getting appraisals, and that was like, I'm going to call, I'm going to call, and you guys just pushed me over.

I'm proud of you, man. I'm proud of you. You're talking to two people who love our lives, who make good money because our boss is overly generous with us, and we all drive older cars because seriously, nobody cares.

No one cares. They really don't.

Nobody cares.

I appreciate you guys. Everything you guys do, you guys are awesome.

I appreciate you, I appreciate you. Congratulations, dude. You're about to be free here anytime soon, man. All right, let's roll out to Philadelphia. We were born and raised on the playground where we spent most of our days and talk to Brandon. Hey, Brandon, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Good, man. What's up?

I am 27 years old. I started my company and bought my home when I was 21. I'm currently making about $250,000 a year, shooting for $300. I'm I'm the employee of my own business, but I was able to save up $150,000, and I have that sitting in a money market mutual funds collecting 4.2% interest right now.

Nice.

I have about $35,000 in debt outside of my home, which I'm definitely paying that off. I was going to do that today, actually. Nice. Then I have about $125,000 that I owe on my home. Now, my question The problem is, because my home is locked in at 3.2% interest, I'm making more interest having it sit in a money market. I also get that home as a business write-off. Does it make sense for me to pay it off?

In our world, it does. In your world, if you're very, very concerned with the math, it may not.

Have you ever lived in a debt-free, a paid-off house?

No.

Having been on both sides of that ledger, I'm going to tell you, the sole tax that you're paying, you don't even know that you're paying it. Because here's what you can do. If you pay it off and you don't like that, you can go down and take a heal lock out on it and invest that money.

And get the 4.2. If I'm wrong.

Yeah.

See what I'm saying?

I don't think you will. I think if you pay that off, you're going to go, This is awesome. No way in the world would I take out a heat lock for 150 so I can get 4.2% on it.

Because you don't know what your body is carrying around being a sole provider of the only employee at a business that you are crushing it on, but that your amygdala knows at any day, if I lose two of these clients or three of these clients, they take my house for me.

Yeah, that's why I live pretty frugally. I live as if my worst months, basically.

Okay, well, take that off the table. Take it off the table. Yeah. Or they can't take your home. They can't take anything. Then you know what you're going to do? You're going to be a lot more selective about the clients you choose, and those clients are going to make you a lot more money down the road, and you're going to serve a lot more people down the road.

Yeah.

Is that fair?

Yes.

You're talking about two percentage points, right? Basically, give or take? Yeah. Bro, I'd pay that thing off today. You can be debt free by the end of the afternoon. Instantly.

I'm excited for you.

Does that sound crazy?

Yeah. For 27, I think it sounds good.

I think it's pretty dat gum.

It could be 27 years old, pay it off house, making 200 grand a year in your own business.

Living his life like it's golden.

You have won, my good man. Pay it off today. You're debt-free Today. Congratulations, man. This is your Freedom Dance. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent, near you at ramsey solutions. Com/agent. Ramsey solutions. Com/agent.

Welcome back. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshall, 888-825. 5, 2, 2, 5. Let's go out to St. Louis, Missouri, and talk to Jen. Hey, Jen, what's going on?

Hi, I'm good. John, how are you?

Good, good, good. What's up?

So I'm going to be straightforward. The question is, my boyfriend doesn't want to get married, should I move out?

How long have you been together?

We've been together since the end of 2019. A little background. I'm a single mama, too. I've got a four-year-old turning seven-year-old turning eight. We moved in late 2020 after a year of dating and divorced from their dad, separated when my daughter was four months old. It was a pretty overwhelming decision to move in together, just protective over them, trying to make the right decisions. But I had to hope that things would progress to marriage by now. You hear Papa Dave, I just started listening to the show when we moved in together, say, You don't want the arguments over the master, and now here we are. It's a sensitive topic about marriage and commitment, so it just feels hard to know what to do next.

I've done this long enough that I think I'm right, but I'm I'm not so humble enough to know if I'm wrong, okay? I want you to shoot me straight, okay? Yeah. I can tell by your voice that you know the answer, and it doesn't really matter what Jade and I say. I think he's been pretty clear he doesn't see a future with you, and he's going to ride the train as long as it will be, and you're terrified of being a single mom again.

Yeah, I mean- Is that fair?

I think it's fair. He'll say he just doesn't see any rush for it. What's the push? It's minus it is he's content. If I push for it, I'm prioritizing that over relationship with him.

Hold on. That's Gaslight 101. Because when you love somebody and they look you in the eye and say, I feel unsafe, and you love them, you do whatever you got to do to help them feel safe. You told them that. Then he says, You're prioritizing how you feel over how I feel. That's not what love does. Love takes a knee and says, I got you. You hope that that person does the same for you. But he's playing you like a fiddle. Here's the thing. You know that. Why don't you trust yourself?

That is a good question.

This isn't the only place he does that to you, is it?

I'm not sure, but it's just making you think in a journal.

Can I have That means yes. You don't have to talk about on there. I get it. I'm never going to tell somebody to move out. I'm not going to do that. You have to own that decision. But I'm telling you, if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, I would tell you to run.

Okay. By the way, that's a great way to think about it. You've got kids. What would you tell your kids to do?

I've brought that up, and he spins it from the other point of view. I'm like, Well, you'd never force your son to marry someone. I'm like, Well, no. But I question why this is going on.

What's the opposition to being married?

I'm not sure. It's hard. I mean, how do you come from a broken home or something, it would make sense to me. I had parents divorce myself, but I'm not sure other than it's a commitment and you're locked into it with someone.

Is it the kids?

Let's just be honest here.

Is he afraid of having to be dad?

I'm not sure. I mean, obviously, he's already playing that role right now and has kids of his own. They're all pretty well bonded together, and everyone gets fairly well. I mean, as much as you can expect in a family situation.

See, I don't buy that either because I know some just staggeringly amazing dads who came along. It's not just as good as you can imagine because you can expect. No, it's pretty amazing. I'm thinking of my buddy Barrett, who stepped into a messy situation, has become the most amazing father to three wonderful kids. I know it can be done because I've seen it done over and over and over again. But it takes somebody walking in saying, Come, hell or high water, you are my wife. These are my kids, and I'm all in. Not Are you kidding me? You're going to rush me? Jeez.

It's been five years.

It's been five years. There's no rush. Half a decade. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Here's the thing. You know all the things Jade and I are saying. You know it. What happened in your first marriage?

A lot of lying. I'd question things. When I told I was wrong, and eventually an affair that we worked and then an affair that just tore it apart.

Who, growing up, told you that what you thought didn't really matter too much?

Probably both parents, children, had to be seen and not heard.

I want to honor your nervous system right now. Your body has learned over the course of your entire life that what you think, what you feel, what you know to be true is probably wrong, and you need to shut your mouth and be quiet about it. I want you to hear Jade and I say you are free from from this point forward, because it's not true. Being seen and not heard kept you safe as a kid, and it's crushing you as an adult woman, right?

Yeah.

Those things that keep us safe as kids often ruin our adult relationships. You learn as a kid, be seen, just be quiet and be out of the way. Your kids don't deserve that in their mom. You don't deserve that day to day. If you're with somebody that's requesting that of you, then, yeah, think long and hard about the duration of that relationship. No question about it.

For sure. It's hard to see the path forward, though, because. There's not one.

He told you there's not one.

He said everything's great. And by the way, from his perspective, it is. He has a place to live. He's got somebody sharing a bed with him. He's got everything.

Why in the world would he change that? He gets his way all the time. Yeah.

Whenever you're like, Hey, I think this, he's like, Well, that's dumb. What about me? And you're like, Yeah, you're right. Sorry. Yeah. He has no reason to change. None. The only way he will change is if you say, I'm going to look in the mirror and believe for the first time in my life, I'm worth more than this. I'm worth somebody looking at me and saying, till death, do us part, I'm with you.

If you had to give your best guess because you know this guy, and if you said, Hey, if we're not getting married anytime soon, I'm walking. Is he begging you to stay, or is he saying, Don't let the door hit you on the way out?

No, he's pretty much like, Well, that's your decision. If you chose to leave, that's on you, and I can't stop you. Somebody who really loved him wouldn't choose to walk out as the vibes they get.

As the great Jay Zee once said, You need to dust your shoulders off or brush your shoulders off.

Get that dirt off your shoulder.

Felicia, you're going. Yeah. He told you that.

Yeah, he said, If you leave, I don't care. I don't care.

Hey, forget him. He's not on the phone with me. Yeah. Jen, why?

I mean, it's scary out there. It's financially scary. There you go. It's hard to have two kids alone. And anytime something comes up, carry That weight on your shoulders. Yeah.

Now we're getting into real talk.

Yeah.

The idea of being a single mom and going to a one bedroom apartment and sharing it with two kids is terrifying, right? Yeah, for sure. What do you make?

I make decent income after tax, bi-weekly. I have this prepared, about 2,500, but it's bi-weekly, so there's two that are a little higher than that. Their dad does actively pay child support.

What does he pay for the child support?

It's 400 bi-weekly.

Okay. You're like almost 6,000 bucks a month?

Yeah. Okay. A little more than that, I think.

Okay, great. You can find a place to live for that.

Yeah. I don't know. Covid and everything, it just scares you because employers and the furloughs and everything. You never know what's going to come.

You're right. I do.

But you do know what's true right now. What's true right now is you have somebody that doesn't respect you and doesn't care about what you think or feel. Yeah. You know that to be true today?

Yeah.

Do you owe a lot of money? Are you pretty good financially right now?

I'm pretty good. Debt-free last summer. No student loans, no credit cards, and paid off my car. Amazing. So I've been working on the emergency fund, and so now it's just like, Am I Baby Step 3D or Baby Step 4?

There you go. Well, you're doing all the right things, and I'm so proud of you. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life and Own your past, change your future, be my gift to you.

When she does this, it's going to make a great statement to her kids about what is and is not acceptable, and that's what's really great about this.

It's scary every step of the way. Call anytime, Jen. We believe in you. We believe in you. You're worth being well. This is The Ramsey Show. What's going on? What's going on? This is John with my good friend Jade Warshaw, and this is The Ramsey Show, live from Nashville, Tennessee, where we help people with their money, with their relationships, and with their work. 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls on just about anything you got going on We have experience, or we've got our own opinions, and that might be about- That's it. Worth what you're going to pay for, but we'll give it to you anyway. 888-825-5225. Let's roll out to Seattle, Washington, and talk to Well, well, well, my Michelle. Hey, Michelle, what's up?

Hey, you guys. I love it. This is so fun. I guess I'll just start with my question, and then we can just unpack from there. I just need help. My husband and I are navigating the decision. My mother-in-law has approached us and his brother wanting monthly financial help so that she can live a little bit easier at 75.

Okay. Wanting or needing?

I would say it's a want.

What does she want?

She's struggling just to make ends meet. She's making it meet, but she's not able to, I would say, live comfortably. I think she wants to be able to maybe work a little bit less and just enjoy life at ease versus living paycheck to paycheck.

How much money is she wanting from you guys, collectively?

Her biggest wish in the world would be to have her mortgage paid off.

Mine, too. She owes it. Okay.

Thank you. Same. Hi.

Same. Me, too. She's got a couple of hundred thousand dollars balance, and so anywhere from $1,600 to $2,000 a month between the two brothers. We would be pitching in somewhere between $800 to $1,000 a month towards her lifestyle. My, oh, my, oh, my.

So what if she sold her house and moved into an apartment?

So that's where I'm questioning. So we have asked her, and she's completely against it.

Because Because she won't be as comfortable?

Well, there's that. And then there's also, that's where her and her husband moved to. And about 15 plus years ago, she lost her husband to cancer, my husband's dad. And so there's A lot of just sentimental, and that's what's holding her there. Her house is worth quite a nice chunk of change, which would change her life.

What's it worth, by the way?

On the low end, I would say 1.5 mil.

Okay. I just want to get full clarity. You said that she's making ends meet, but she might not have the money to do extra special things. Right. It's hard for her to go out to a nice dinner or go on a trip. Is a nice dinner like a steak dinner or she can't get Chick-fil-A?

Oh, no. She can get Chick-fil-A. It's nice things, and she's just getting tired.

Oh. I'm- Listen, Michelle, talk to John for a minute because I got to sit over here and be quiet. Okay.

I have a heart to help. I want to help everybody in the world.

I know you do. Hey, listen, I want to honor family, and I am taking steps right now to be able to take care of my mom and dad if and when that day comes. I totally get it, okay? Yeah. I'm sitting in a $1.5 million house. I make enough money to do whatever I want to do, but I want to do more of what I want to do and less of living in reality. This isn't about taking care of mom. This is about mom wanting her cake and wanting to eat it, too.

Right? Right. She approaches us as, Well, this is an investment for you. This is going to be your inheritance. I'm over here like, Well, I ain't guaranteed nothing. If you live for 20 years, then you might need medical help or care or assisted living in the future. That's right. Where that's going to come from.

That's also hanging something over your head that you never asked for. You're like, I never asked for you to leave me anything in your will.

Totally.

Yeah. By the way, it's not an investment. Paying for dinners and meals is not an investment.

No.

Yeah, this is a hard one. It's going to be hard on two fronts. It's going to be hard one because either your husband or his brother is going to cave. It's this request from a parent is so selfish because it will split the family. It is not selfish if parent can't eat. It is not selfish if parent doesn't have a place to live. I'm all about that. I'm sitting on my $1.5 million house, and I can continue to say it's sentimental, even though a husband passed away 15 years ago. But this is more about, I'm in a $1.5 million. This is my lifestyle, right?

Hey, what's your husband wanted to do?

He's up in the air, but Well, he's understanding the reality of the situation of she's not up a creek. She's got a way through this.

She doesn't have a way through it. She's got a yacht through it. It's not like she has a canoe that she's trying to paddle up a river. She could take a yacht.

Do you have $1.3 million?

I mean, we've done pretty well. I think our networth is somewhere just under $2 million. Okay. We're new to this program. To be honest with you, money has been the biggest stress in my part of the marriage because I held on to it. Until I found your show, I started opening up to my husband about what this burden and stress was. When we're making decent money and we don't have money one month, I'm just like, How is this happening? We're both on board. We're brand new to this thing. We're trying to shuffle our life around to fit into the baby steps so we can actually have a goal to retire and have something on the horizon that's a pin in it. It's not a fantasy or a dream.

You said you have a net worth of $2 million, but what's your net liability against that networth?

How much debt do you have? I've got 290 on one of my mortgages that we own outright, the other property, and then about 60K in consumer.

Okay. Then you You have money laying around, obviously, because you've got 2 million. What's liquid that you can get to? What do you…

Okay, so that's a little bit sticky because I just recently closed out my late mom's estate, and so I got a modest inheritance that is not included in that 1.8. That's just sitting in a money market because I'm still emotional right now. That's About $260 is liquid.

Okay, $260 is liquid. You guys are really close to being able to really pay off all of your debt in this other mortgage and be completely scot-free, basically.

Yes. With crunching numbers in the next handful of years, it'll be completely steamroll. But consumer debt, yes. This year, 2024, we'll never touch consumer debt again. Yeah.

I mean, you've got $260 sitting in a- Yeah.

Can you pay it off right now, today?

I know. Yeah, I can.

Yeah, definitely. Then that leaves 200. I know you've got money elsewhere, too, but not to get into all that. But then you only owe 290 on this other mortgage, and it's your second home. There's money to make this happen. You got to get with your husband and decide what you want to do, what you don't want to do. But here's the thing, you're not doing anything out of guilt, and you're also not going to do... What is it? The guilt and resentment thing, George?

Yeah, choose guilt over resentment every time. Because if you start giving money, you're going to start getting frustrated, and you're going to have a month where things are tight and she's going to be calling you from the steakhouse and you're going to start to resent her. And that's not fair to her. What's fair to her is you and your family, and hopefully your brother's family, have boundaries.

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This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825. 5225. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. Jade, that last collar. It was different. That got us buzzing in the hallway, man.

That was different, John.

So I don't want to talk to the sweet woman who called because she's second-removed, right? This is her husband's mom, it's her mother-in-law. I guess the conversation I want to have is to parents out there. Yes. Those who would look at their children as a ROI, you owe me, or as a lottery ticket, or as a lifestyle play for me. Yeah. Instead of saying, I got to the end of my life, me and my My husband built this world, or me and my wife built this world. We have a $1.5 million house. We're referring to the previous call. We did it, thank God. Now, we can sell this house. We can buy a $500,000 condo and put a million dollars in the bank to take care of me as a widow for the rest of my life.

That's one of the joys of real estate. It's a way to build wealth.

For just this moment. Instead of saying, Hey, you know what? I'm getting tired of working. How about everybody give me $1,000 a month so I can stay in this million-dollar plus property and continue to go out to fancy dinners and to do what I want to do?

In many ways, if we're just looking at it dollar for dollar, in many ways, it's the same as if she had $1.5 million in a retirement account and was like, I don't really want to touch this. I don't want to take a draw off it.

All my kids, you all are doing good, so everybody send me a check.

Yeah, the money is the money, whether it's in a home or sitting in an account. It's just she don't want to get to it for sentimental reasons or whatever. It's like, Hey, this is still real money and real wealth that you have here. You just don't want to access it, and so it's at everybody else's expense.

I guess the flip side of that is there's got to be something else in a relationship like this because I want my mom to have the best, and I want my dad to have the best. There has to be something along the way in this family dynamic that people aren't running to take care of the situation, right?

Well, I don't think anything's on fire.

No, not only is nothing on fire, there's roses in these gardens, right? Things are nice.

I mean, unless you have a terrible relationship with your parents, most kids want to help their parents out. That's right. Especially even if they can't financially afford to do it. It's like, My mom needs them. They'll put themselves in harm's way and put their financial family at risk to help. I don't think it's even a thing of like, Oh, what child are you? I think we want to help, but I think it's also, But you have money.

You have a million dollars, right? Yeah.

I asked John during the break, I'm like, Am I some scrooge? Am I crazy? Because I was not even having it.

No. Occasionally, today, we've got a full studio audience, and occasionally, you look up and the whole audience is just mouth-shaking their head. Shaking their head. What is happening right now? Yeah, it's one of those rare moments. I think everybody was like, Is this for real? Unfortunately, it is that folks want to prop up their lifestyle. They don't want to own reality. Here's reality.

This is the conversation. That's why what we teach day in and day out here is so important because you do have to think towards the future, and you have to think there's going to come a time, if you're listening and you have kids, where the roles are going to be reversed and you're going to be the old parent. Do you want to put your kids in the same position that you've been put in? That tracks on many layers here. So many of us, I know my generation, grew up where parents don't really talk about money, and it's just like, you don't ask us how much we make, and we don't-They don't talk about money, and they don't talk about sex.

Right. And so- Stuff just gets paid, and you all just appeared in our home. Right.

Let's stop talking. And now we're in our 30s and 40s and 50s, and it's like, my parents, are they doing okay? Are they not doing okay? And we're wondering if we're going to have to take care of them. And so it's like, let's not do that to our kids. Let's get our financial house in order and let's pay off our debt. And for the love of God, let's please invest some money so that when When your time comes, because it will come, nobody works forever, that unless you leave out too soon, the time is going to come where you can't work. And are you going to do the same cycle again? And now you're calling your kids and saying, I raised you. The least you could do is kick in some money for my Chick-fil-A.

Well, and let me promise you, in this situation... Let me back up. Here's my promise. If mom doesn't have a place to live, dad doesn't have a place to live, and you give him a place, there's going It's going to be some hanging your head a little bit low, but it's going to be some gratitude. Absolutely. Thank you. In this situation, when needs are beyond met, when mom is a millionaire and she's calling for lifestyle stipends, that number will move for the rest of you all's life together. That's a good word, John. It will be a thousand bucks, and then it will turn into 1,500 bucks. It will be, I need a new car, and it will be, I need a new roof, and it will be, I need a new kitchen. It will continue to move because it was never about the money. It was about this external grasp for, prove to me how much you love me. As soon as that's met, that finish line continues to move and move and move. So drawing boundaries there is so hard, so hard, because she's going to make it you all's fault. You got to draw those boundaries.

Choose guilt over resentment Every single time. That's right. Let's go to Atlanta and talk to Stephanie. Hey, Stephanie, what's going on?

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call.

You got it. What's going on?

Okay. My husband and I are in Baby Step 3, and I need you all to please be on my side on this one.

All right, team Stephanie, go.

Yes. Our disagreement is on how much we should have in our emergency fund. At the end of the day, by the time we do all of our expenses, it comes down to our food budget. We agree on what our monthly budget is, but our situation, we're a little different compared to other Other people. I guess you put us in more of like homesteader, prepper. Okay.

You're talking my language. Keep going.

Keep going. You should see my deep freeze. Let's go.

I got two of them, so there you go.

In my home, I have, depending on whether it's meat, grains, whatever, anywhere from nine months to a year's worth of food at all times, and we rotate through it.

Okay.

He thinks in our emergency fund, we should not have any funds allocated for food because we have our food storage. I disagree because even though our kids are fairly young, I've got two boys that are… They're not teenagers yet, but they're starting to eat a lot.

Split the difference, Stephanie. You guys are splitting hairs. What's your food budget every month?

Okay, so I have a thousand a month.

Okay, so take 500 when you're thinking about your budget, because three to six months of expenses is basically your basic budget. It's not your budget with all its bells and whistles. When you're calculating that number and saying, Okay, what does it just take for our house to tick and run and run smoothly if we both lost our jobs? Then, yeah, when you're counting up that number, instead of putting 1,000, put 500 and call it a day. What's wrong with that?

I agree with that. He thinks there should be nothing, but I said it either needs to be half or the full.

All right, so you're both crazy. You're both crazy.

Hey, legitimately, time-wise, what does this equate to, savings? Is this you say for an extra month? I mean, what are we talking here?

So time-wise, if we split the diff in If not, it's like an extra two months. If not, it's an extra four months.

This is not worth your marriage. It's not. He's already married to somebody that needs a year's worth of cow and deer in the freezer. Let him have this one. Let him have this. At the end of the day, what's it worth?

No, I was just making sure we're on the same page.

Actually, if you really want to know, he was the one that was like, You need to call in and ask them.

Or you could throw a wrench in the plan and say, Listen, if we don't save this up, what if we've used our last month's of savings and the electricity goes out and all of our deer and antelope that's in the deep freezer goes bad? We're going to wish that we had saved up that grocery money.

Hey, here's the thing.

That's my biggest fear is the freezers are going to die on your menu.

Most people who are like, I'm prepping for the end of time. I got a year's worth of cow in the freezer. Dude, they cut the power. That's the first thing that happens. And every time I mention that, people are like, Wait, wait, wait, what? The first thing they do is cut the power. You lose all of it. Oh, man. I mean, you need a root seller. That's what you need. You need to be a vegetarian like Jade because you don't have to deal with all this chaos. But I do have a of deep freezers, and I'm with you, Stephanie. But split the difference. I mean, you're stepping over $100 bills to pick up nickels when it comes to your marriage. It's not worth the fight. Let's just split it half and half. Both of you are nuts, and you all can find peace on the other end. That was awesome. You're awesome, Stephanie. We'll be right back.

Hey, folks, the Total Money Makeover 20th Anniversary Edition is now here.

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This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. 888-825-5225.

Let's talk about EveryDollar, the best budgeting app in the land, in the world, as some people might say. And I agree with that statement.

Because we are on Lord of the Rings.

That's right. Everydollar. Let's talk for real about this thing. You need a budget, right? And there's a lot of them out there, but they don't do what every dollar does, which is making it very easy to stick to your monthly budget and also providing the guidance you need, the Ramsey way, so that you can stick to your budget and accomplish your goals. That's what this whole thing is about. And so the best way to make the most of your money is by creating this every dollar budget. It truly does help you stick to your monthly budget. It makes it so simple to plan your spending, to plan your paychecks. You can track your expenses, and you can save money. For the things that matter most to you. What I love about Every Dollar is it's an app on your phone, or you can do it on your desktop. I always say, John, that every dollar fills in the communication gaps with your spouse if you're married.

It's real tough.

It It's like, Yeah, I forgot to tell you I went to Publix, but Sam can open up the budget and see, Okay, somebody went to Publix. It must have been Jade.

Usually, it works like this, Hey, John, you forgot to tell me that you went to Publix, or a guitar center in my wife's.

Guitar center. Let's be real. That's your reality, John. But it's this app, and you can open it up. It's in real-time. You can see what's going on, and it wants you to track your transactions every single day. So you build up this daily habit to where every day you're just looking at your money, which is so good. You keep a pulse on your spending and make progress towards your goals. So if you're interested in that, download every dollar for free. Again, that's for free. You can do that in the App Store or Google Play if you have an Android.

I don't know about the Android. All right, Androids are good. Androids are good.

Are they?

Yes. Look at Christian in there. Christian in there.

Are you the only one, Christian, with an Android? I am sorry for you. I'm sorry.

Hey, Hey. America, Christian. That's what I'm talking about. Let's go out to Dallas, D, Texas, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth, what's going on? Oh, not much. How are you all doing? We're partying, dude. That's not true. We're at work, but you probably are, too. What's up?

So my question is, I'm trying to figure out what the best way to get my family out of this hole is with an anticipated car accident settlement.

Okay, go for it.

Well, there's a A little bit of a backstory. I'm married, but I've been single since January of 2023. I have three kids, and I'm not getting any financial support whatsoever right now.

Okay. Is the divorce in process? Just take him forever?

He doesn't want to be with me, but he doesn't want to get divorced. I obviously want to because there's no point in the tie, but I can't afford to.

Here's the deal. It's the opposite. It's actually he can go do a bunch of things that can destroy you.

Yes, that's a huge worry of mine. Yes.

When you say it's too expensive, is there not an attorney that you can pick up for 5 or 10 grand? I know that's a lot of money, but this is a scary position for you to be in.

I'm 100%.

The only problem is, I live in a college town, so everybody wants four or five grand up front. I have nothing No money at all. It's scary because I'm expecting a car accident settlement, and I'm not divorced. That also scares me because I feel like he's going to try to get it away from me. Try to get the money? Yes.

Is the car in your name, or is it both of your names? No, I bought it before we got married. Okay, so the car is 100% in your name? Yes. Okay, then the settlement should come to you. You'll be That's fine. You should be fine.

Okay, so what about lost wages? Because I was out of work for six months because I dislocated my hips, so I wasn't allowed to work at all.

Okay. Is that coming to you?

The attorneys have told me that I'm going to get lost wages.

Okay. Well, then I would not hear- If he tried to come after this money, I don't think there's any way he'd get it. Elizabeth, I can hear you're scared to death, and you are projecting problems into the future, and you're worrying about them in the present. Okay?

Yes.

I would much rather. Do you have an opportunity to go earn some money right now?

I've been working.

Where are you working? I'm self-employed as a contractor. Doing what?

Construction, remodeling, flooring, showers, small- Are you making any money doing that? Currently, no. In the next couple of weeks, I'm anticipating a job that's going to pay me four, almost five grand, except I'm also behind on my rent.

Elizabeth, you have to stop this. You got to go get a job at McDonald's, and you got to get a job at Walmart today. I know you've got a lot of skills, but you're drowning, and you're scared to death, and you got little kids, and you got left, and the guy's drowning you on the other end of the teeter totter because he knows you can't afford anything right this second. You're spiraling, and you're spiraling. You've been spiraling for over a year now, and the The only path through this is through this. I'm only telling you that because I love you, and you can make $20 an hour in Dallas, Texas, at both of those locations.

Then as far as the situation goes with not having a vehicle. I mean, I have a vehicle, but it's technically total from the car accident.

Well, keep driving it.

I am. I can't afford to put fuel in it right now.

Because you have to- My experience has been my way to get around. I know. You got to go get a job.

You have to go work. Do you have any buddies that for the first two weeks before you get a paycheck can just drop you off?

I really don't have any friends. I had a friend, but she just disappeared.

How are you feeding your children right now?

I get government assistance. I get food stamps, and I've gotten that ever since he moved out just because of not being able to do that.

When is the check coming I get a debit on the 12th of every month. No, no, no. When does the check for the settlement come in?

Oh, it's supposed to be within the next 30 days. Okay.

The biggest temptation you're going to have is to go blow every penny of that. And what I want you- Yeah. Here's the deal. You're going to have a choice to make, okay? You're going to have a choice as to whether you go finance a new car, whether you go get some nice apartment for a minute because this is going to be a big check. Or if you get a friend, somebody you trust, and if you don't have that, then you go find a pastor at a local church, or you call and find a counselor on government assistance for $50 an hour. But you find somebody that will walk with you with this money. If you play your cards right, you're going to put this money in a high-yield savings account, and you're going to enough money to get an apartment, or you're going to be able to pay on the current apartment you have, and you're going to be able to put gas in your car. You're not going to go buy a new car, even though yours is ridiculous, and it looks silly, and it's been totaled, but it still drives. You're going to go get two jobs, and you're going to work, and you're going to work, and you're going to work.

This breaks my heart for you. But you can look up in nine months and have worked two jobs and kept this money in the bank, and you're going to have a radically different outlook on life. I want you to take 5,000 of this settlement, and I want you to get an attorney and get this divorce finalized.

Yeah.

Okay. I agree with you. I definitely agree. It stinks. I know it stinks. I know this is going to feel like a lifeline. It's going to be like, Oh, man, I've got it. I made. It's going to go faster. It's going to go right through your hands like water if you don't have a plan. The plan has to be your standard of living that you have right now goes up 1% in gasoline. I'm not buying anything new. I'm not buying new clothes. I'm not buying anything. I'm buying gasoline, and toothpaste, and deodorant, and soap. I'm going to pay rent, and then I'm going to go get a job, and then I'm going to go to the next level, and then the next level. We're playing a two or three-year game here.

Yeah.

That man left you in a bad hole, didn't he?

Yeah.

By the way- In the hole before he left. If you get it finalized, the court will make him pay you child support. I know single moms all across the state of Texas just laughed when I said that, but at least it will be court order, right?

Yeah.

I'm so sorry, hon. Hang on the line here. Hang on the line. I'm going to hook you up with Financial Peace University with their course. It's going to tell you how to handle this money when it comes to you, and I'm going to hook you up with the EveryDollar app. I know you don't have any money in the account right now, but in 30 days, you're going to have a lot of money in that account, and I want you to steward it wisely. Hang on the line. We'll get you taken care of. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show. Today's scripture of the day is Isaiah 48:17. I'm the Lord your God who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. The great and mighty George Carlin says, Some people see things that are and ask why, and some people dream of things that never were and ask why not. And some people have to go to work and they don't have time for all that. I love George Carlin, the goat. All right, let's go out to Minneapolis. Not Minneapolis, but Minneapolis. Thank you, John.

I've been working hard on that. And talk to Patrick. What's up, Patrick?

Hey, guys. How are you guys doing today?

We're rocking on to the break of dawn, brother. What are you doing?

Good, good. So I just had a quick question for you guys. So I believe it was a couple of years ago, I was with my dad, and he had put me on all of the credit cards that he had. I guess my question is, how am I able to get myself- Are you an authorized user on these credit cards?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's get off those. For anybody listening, if you're an authorized user on a credit card, all you have to do is call up the number because you've got your own card you can spend, and it's affecting your credit. All you have to do is call the number and say, I don't want to be an authorized user anymore, and you have the ability to do that. It's literally that simple, and I would do that.

Did he pull these credit cards in your name, or are you on his credit I am on his credit card. Okay. That makes it easy. That makes it easy. You can just roll that off.

Yep. Just call him up and say, I'm an authorized user on this account, and I don't want to be anymore.

Fantastic. That'll be that on that. Yeah. Good call, Patrick. Hey, and good for you for getting off your dad's stuff, man. Yeah. Let's separate this and be all growed up. All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Missouri, and talk to the Mighty Bryce. Hey, Bryce, what's up, man? How's it going, guys? Excellent. What's up with you, man?

So I guess I have a question here. I wanted you guys to slap some sense into me. I'm thinking about buying a new car.

Just don't. Just kidding. Go ahead.

It's a 2022 BMW M340i. Cars is my passion, but I just really wanted someone to talk me out of it, I guess. I make about $80,000 a year. I have about $3,000 in debt, and I wanted to put about $10,000 to $15,000 down on the vehicle.

Then do payments for the rest?

Correct, yes. That's a great idea.

I think you want us to talk you off the ledge? Is that what you're calling for?

I guess I just know that I could put that money somewhere else. I've got two roads to go down. I really want this car. It's my passion, but I've got this other road where I know I could take that money and build my wealth instead of buying a car with it.

What do you think is the wise answer? And what do you think that we're going to tell you to do?

You're going to tell me to take the road to invest that money into something smarter.

Yeah, we're going to tell you- I don't know. We want peace for you, flat out. We want you to have financial peace. We want you to be able to leave an inheritance. We want you to have a good life financially. We don't want you to be slave to a lender. I think even if you're relatively new to the show, I think you can get that even from listening to a couple of hours of the show. But yeah, if I'm you, you've got $3,000 of debt to pay off. If you've got 10,000 to 15,000 to put down on this vehicle, you can pay off your debt. Then with whatever you have left, which is at least 12,000, can't you buy a car in cash? That would be so amazing to have a cash car. You already have a car, right?

Yes, I do have a car right now. What do you have? That's the debt I have, actually, that $3,000 in debt. I have a 2014 Mercedes right now that I've had for about five years.

What's it worth?

It's worth about $13,000, $14,000.

Can't you sell that car and get $10,000 for it and then put your other $15,000 with it and buy a $25,000 car in cash?

The idea was… I have about $30,000 in the bank, and I was going to take 10 out of that I was going to sell the car I have and use 10 from that and do possibly $20,000 down, so $15,000-$20,000 down.

Not down. That's where we're differing. You and I have two different schools of thought. I don't want you to go into debt ever again.

Not for It's appreciating asset.

Yeah, it's going down in value. The borrower is slave to the lender, period. Yes. If you want to talk about better things that you could be doing with your money, let's say the payment is 500 bucks a month, do you know what that is over Over the course of time, you're locking yourself into a life of car payments because you had a car payment before. Now you're going to have a car payment again. Before you look up, you will have had car payments for 20, 30, 40 years of your life. I don't have to tell you, if you plug that into an investment calculator, the millions of dollars that you're throwing down the drain. You don't even have to. Some people get locked into car payments because they feel like they don't have the money sitting around to get out. You've got $30,000 sitting around to never do this ever again.

Yes.

Tell me about this word you keep using, which is like a newfangled word that is super hemeroid-inducing for me. Passion. They're my passion. Oh, they're my passion. Tell me about this passion of yours.

It's really the only thing in my life that I absolutely love is cars. I'm 24 years old. I've got a job. I don't really have I don't really play any video games. I don't play any sports. Cars is my thing. I know the number one thing that you guys talk about is to not have a car loan and to be paying 5, 6, $700, $700 a month on a car. That's why I'm second-guessing myself.

You should be. Listen, I could tell you right now, you want to know what my thing is?

What's that?

Million Dollar Houses.

Yes. My things are guitar equipment. I'm not even that good, but I just love buying it.

Trips to Europe, that's my thing. I think we all have a thing that's like, Yeah, I would love that. That would be great if I could do that all the time. But there is a little thing called reality, and we should live there.

There's another word. It's an ancient Greek word. I think it's Greek and Latin and English at the same time, and it's called maturity. It's called being able to separate what I really want versus what is reality, what I have.

Yeah. I know that if I don't end up getting this vehicle and I put this money somewhere smarter, my future self will thank me for that. It will.

It sure will.

In the moment right now, I just... I don't know.

Listen. Hey.

You do know. You do know.

There's two types of dumb choices you can make. There's the dumb choice where wise people have done it before and warned you and said, Dude, if you do that, you'll die. Don't do it. I've done it before. It's not good. You have the opportunity to learn from that dumb choice or do it anyway. Then there's a dumb choice where you're like, It's my first rodeo. I don't know any better. I thought I was doing right, and it still turned out to be a decision that was dumb, right? Don't make the first dumb choice. We're telling you. We're telling you, Dude, if you do this, you'll die. Don't do it. Financially, it's not good for you. John and I have both made... We've done everything stupid in the book comes to money. We're telling you, you are going to regret this, and you're not going to die, but you're going to regret this.

Here's the other challenge, and I'm not saying this to make fun, okay? This is me being as honest as I can. I want you to challenge yourself to get more hobbies, to get some guys to hang out with, to start doing some other things. Because if you notice, Jade and I both rattled off multiple things that if we were just given the Wild West worth of money, we would go spend stuff on because we have multiple passions across multiple different things. That's just the idea of a well-run person. If you find yourself at 24 and you are fixated on a thing so much so that you're going to act on it against your best interest, that's called an addiction. I want you to begin to expand your horizon. Go to races. That's all cool. But also go to comedy shows. Go watch movies, get some guys and go bowling, learn how to fish, do some other things that don't have such a multi thousands and thousands of dollar entry point into finding joy. And the things you get good at of the things you're going to get passionate about over time. Go practice some other things, man.

And thanks for letting us pick on you, Bryce. We love you, dude. And that's a great car. You just can't afford it. Hey, thanks for listening to us, America. This has been The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, I'm Rachael. And I'm George.

And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show. And do we have a surprise for you? Yep, we have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money.

George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much.

We talk about guilt-tipping because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

I'm glad you're taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about, Disney adults.

Why is it a thing?

Listen, some adults still find the magic.

Sure.

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys.

It's pretty fun.

We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.

We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having.

We promise you won't regret it.

And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.