Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey show. It's where we help you win in your life, winning in your money, winning in your relationships, and winning at work is the goal, and we can help you do that. Triple 825-5225 is the phone number. That's triple 888-25-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me this hour, and we team up to help you. So the money questions, the relationship questions, the mental health questions, the work questions, all of it is open for you. Triple 8825-5225 let's get started in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And Josh is going to kick us off this hour. Josh, how you doing?

Good, how are you?

Good. What's going on?

Yeah. So, sent in this message the other day, gets feedback on it, and, yeah, my wife and I have been married for about three years now, and we decided when we got pregnant with our first kid that she'd be a stay at home mom. I was able to financially support that all was well. And then a year into our marriage, when she stopped working, found out she had about $60,000 in student debt that she was paying on.

That's awkward, huh?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, with that being said, it's a private loan, and we're three years into our marriage. Second, kids here just bought a house because it was cheaper to do so than renting with where we're at. And now I'm kind of feeling the push and pull of having her get a job because what was a 2% interest rate is now a 10% interest rate because it's a variable loan. And she co signed on that loan with her mom. So feeling a bit of obligation to keep these payments up and active, even though it's pulling quite a bit from our monthly income.

Hey, bro, you're. You're playing at the periphery here. This isn't the main issue. The main issue is the woman you dedicated your life to and said, I do to lied to you and had a huge debt, and you were making decisions, and y'all were moving full steam ahead with one version of your life, not knowing there was another version. Have you dealt with that? We call it financial infidelity around here, and we use that level of, that depth of language because it's that serious.

Yeah.

Have you dealt with it?

Have you? Yeah. Have you all dug into that?

Yeah, we're working on it. So, like, it's been two years now since this came to light.

Why did you go buy a house on top of that, then?

Well, with our second kid we were paying about $1,500 a month with for a two bedroom apartment and now our mortgage is only 1400.

Yeah, but you traded $100 a month for what?

Yeah, we were wanting to upsize there.

You were. That's what you wanted.

Yeah.

And you came up with a math problem that achieved what you wanted. Y'all just. Here's the deal. You are not trafficking in reality, you're just not.

Okay.

And until you get to the bottom of okay, we have a new $60,000 debt we have to pay off because your mother in law is not going to pay it off. And it's 10%, which is a astronomical.

Rate and pretty gnarly.

Yeah. So I don't know that you can afford for your wife to stay at home because of the choices she made and then lied about to you. And now you all have set yourself further back by having a home because you all want to continue to perpetuate this fantasy. You can't afford this house, but you got it. And so now you got it. And so you have to make some hard decisions in the short term, especially for the next few years, and rewrite this ship. Right now y'all are taking on water and you're just pretending that you're not. And you are. You're taking on water relationally. You're taking on water in your trust. You don't trust her as far as you can see her. And then you're taking on water with the finances man. And you had this picture of this stay at home mom, these two kids, this house and you bar, you're barred your way to it, but you're in a mess.

So uh, Josh, two year. This happened two years ago and you call us today. Glad you called us by the way. We want to dive into this but. But John's making a very, very good point here. I think you're at the end of your rope, or pretty darn close to it. You decide to call us today. This is two years ago and you chuckled when John pressed you. So I'm just kind of repeating back to you what we're seeing here. So where is this deal? She not willing to go back to work? Is there still huge amount of tension in this? Give us the real, real where you stand today before you dial the phone number.

Yeah. So I've been kind of pressing her to find employment again and start working again.

How's that going?

Very pretty. Laxadays able for the past six months.

Yeah. So you don't trust her and then now you're really frustrated at her. Cause she's not pulling her weight, in your opinion, to help out with this undisclosed rock that she revealed around your neck.

Right.

Okay.

Are you talking to her when you sit down with her? Are you talking to her in financial terms? Hey, we have this many bills and we have this much money. I need you to get. Make a job. Get a job that makes this much money? Or have you talked to her about, hey, we have to build a new marriage, because when we had was a farce, it wasn't real, and we have to build something new. And part of building something new is reestablishing trust together. And here's what I'm going to need to trust you again. I need you to be on the same team with me and build something new together. And there's a financial component to that, but I'm terrified that we're going to keep drowning in this mess. But if you keep approaching her with a spreadsheet. Yeah. How are you talking to her about this?

Very futuristic. Because I want to be debt free as soon as possible and trying to get on the same, like, hey, we have things we can look forward to, but this is like a ball and chain. The 60 grand. So she doesn't feel that. No.

She thought so little about 60 grand, she didn't even bother to tell you about it.

Yeah, it's almost like Josh and John. It's a question for both of you here. Did she withhold that intentionally or was it just literally a. Well, whatever?

Well, when she started staying at home, we had like, switched our finances to a local bank. And then I started seeing these automatic withdrawals of five, $600 a month. And I confronted her about it.

She's.

And then that's when it came to attention that this is my student loan.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is, did she do this intentionally or do you think it was lacks just kind of a. Well, whatever. I don't even worry about it, so I don't bring it up.

Yeah, I don't think it was intentional.

What do you think? I feel like it is.

Dude, you can't hide $60,000 to a guy who's, like, intent on being debt free. Right, right. I think you came in and you're like, dude, I'm never going to borrow money. We're going to be debt free. And she went, whoopsie do. That's what I think, and got quiet about it. And maybe she didn't outright lie and say, I don't have any debt either, but she sure didn't say, well, hey, I've got a $60,000 rock on a chain around my neck.

All right, doc, that music means we got a hurry. What are you prescribing here?

I think he's got to sit down and be real honest with her. I think he needs to take 24 hours and write down what he's scared about and write down how, just how angry he is and how much he doesn't trust her. And then with compassion, he has to sit down and say, here's where we really are. Will you build something new with me and hope she says yes.

Yeah. And Josh, I'm not clinically trained, but I got a lot of common sense. And that last question we went through with you is you got to start to acknowledge that you feel like she did lie to you, and you need to stop covering that up so you can heal from it with what John is saying you need to do. Thanks for the call, man. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me this hour. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 triple 8825-5225 before we get back to the phones, we want to stay here for a minute. John and I were talking during the break, talking to the crew and that last call. Very interesting. If you're just joining us, very quick review. And then we're going to step into something. It's something we want to hear from you, the audience. So if you're watching via YouTube podcast, you can comment on this. Okay, so our last call, guy finds out two years into the marriage that his wife has $60,000 worth of student loan debt. Does not mention it. She does not mention it in the dating relationship, in the engagement, and only mentions it after he finds out when they change banks that there's a withdrawal to the tune of five, $600 a month. Coming out. So Kelly's sitting in for James today, our fearless leader, and she's amazing. She gave me some data. Recent poll found that 40%, John, of Americans have ended a relationship because of financial missteps, bonehead moves, obviously. Maybe some financial infidelity is, as you called it, as we've called it here on the show for a long time.

So 40% have ended a relationship. So to the audience, we've got. We've got. We're going to do one step here. This is fun. We have, I don't know, close to 50, 60 people in the lobby this afternoon. Show of hands. If the answer is yes, would you end a relationship over poor financial decisions? If yes, raise your hand. Everybody's freaking out. There's some people and they're like, well, I'm married now. It's only two oh three. We have third person. Okay, so. All right, John, relationship guy. I mean, it feels like the huge chunk of your show is always relationship questions. What do you think first, about the 40% of Americans ending relationship over finances? That piece of data, what does that say to you?

I used to believe it's because they weren't honest about their financial issues. Yeah. Or they. Yeah. Secretly bet the farm on. On deutsche coin.

What about just seeing. Not seeing things eye to eye?

I mean, I think it depends. Like, I have to have a $70,000 new truck. I just started a lawn business. Right. And someone might say, that guy's financially irresponsible. Well, that's. That's a much bigger picture. Just gets cast on financial irresponsibility. We hear all the time on the show. We. I don't want to get married yet until Ken's paid off his student loans. Well, that's. I think that's dumb.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Both my wife and I married somebody with student loans each other. Right. And then we partnered together to same.

Thing with Stacey and I.

So that isn't a reason. Having debt is not a reason to not continue into a relationship. It is. How. What is this person's relationship with money and integrity. And I can imagine somebody looking at somebody and saying, I want to build a future with them. And the way they do, life is not going to end up in a good future. And so the way they're spending money, the way they're being dishonest about money, the way they always got a scheme or a scam about money. Yeah, I can see ending a relationship.

I absolutely would. I don't think you end a marriage over it because you should have done your homework before the marriage.

Right.

But certainly, yeah. If you're. If you're dating someone you're thinking about. I mean, I know that I've been on calls when I've co hosted this show where I've sat there and listened, and one of the money personalities is kind of going through the thing, and I'm sitting over here just biting my tongue, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. And then. And then I go, I'm gonna tell you something, man. This needs to be solved now, because if you guys can't get on the same page financially, this is gonna eat your marriage up. You agree with that?

100%.

That's a full stop. Yeah. We can't get on the same page about that.

But I think it always comes back to what. What the old man says. What Dave says is it's just a symptom, right? That's right. If. I mean, I could get mad at you for how you just spent your, like, our paycheck or borrowing money, that's just a symptom of I can't trust you.

Right.

That's a relationship killer that you got to deal with.

That's exactly right. That's where you don't tell the truth.

That's a relationship killer.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. So what say you? Certainly, for those of you on the youtubes, if you want to jump in and comment on it, what do you think? I feel bad for that guy, by the way. Just kind of revisiting that. In fact, actually, just real quick, I want to come back to that, because, you know, we're digging a lot. We didn't. You could tell he was holding back. You gave him some action.

He's trying to honor his wife.

He was.

Or better yet, he's trying not to dishonor his wife 100%. And she. She lied his face.

But this is just real quick coming back to you. I mean, this is not a financial issue. This is a marriage issue for integrity. They've got to get that figured out. And it just feels like maybe she doesn't think it's that big of a deal now. We're only getting one side of it.

Yeah.

So speak to that. Cause there's always two sides to that.

Yeah.

That couple comes in and sits with you. Where are you starting?

Oh, I'm starting with what was it about this relational dynamic that you felt like you had to go into the rest of your life with this secret a thinking, he's so dumb, he's not ever gonna know. You're just gonna secretly pay off 60 grand, siphon off 60 grand from the household budget and bigger than that. When he, when you hear him talking about how important being debt free and how much having freedom in your home is, at what point did you like, what was it about that dynamic? You didn't bring it up? Are you a terrible person or is he unsafe? What's going on here? I'd start there and then you find a lot out about how they're dynamic and they're in, like, what's safe, what's not, what kind of jerk this guy is or how great he is or how shamed she feels or who knows what.

I thought it was very telling that he's calling us after two years point. He chuckled and said, we're working on it.

They're not working on it.

No, not at all.

Yeah. And I think that's that again. It's easy. If they broke up today, it would be, quote unquote, because of the money.

Yeah.

It's not it.

That's right.

It's because she deceived him about the money and then would not participate in making it. Right.

Yeah.

Right. It's like somebody who cheats on their spouse and then says, okay, to reestablish trust, I need to see your phone every day. Looking at my phone. Right. That's. That's the issue there. I don't have no interest in re. In making this thing better.

Good stuff there. All right. Phone numbers triple. 888-825-5225 lot of stuff revolving around money. And it's not always just the money issue. Let's go to Michelle now, who's waiting for us in Cincinnati, Ohio. Michelle, how can we help? Hi.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

My mom, unfortunately passed away unexpectedly in February. Thank you. Me, me too. And I have come into a sizable inheritance. I'm the only kid, and she wasn't married when she passed, so it's more money than I've ever seen. And about 1.5 million split across different, you know, avenues. So there's 140 in investments, okay?

440 in investments, okay.

There's 600 that's in life insurance money. That's just right now sitting in a interest bearing account until I know what to do with it.

Okay.

And then there's 350,000. That is going to come from selling her house, which I'm in the process of doing now.

That's what you'll net.

Yeah.

Okay. So what's your question? We've got about two minutes. We want to make sure we get to your key question.

My question is, my goal is to invest most of the money. But currently my husband and I have a mortgage sitting at 307,000. And it's at three and a quarter interest rate. And I was wondering if you would advise that I take some of the inheritance money and completely pay off our mortgage, because that's our only remaining debt.

Yes, instantly.

What was your mom's name?

Loretta.

Loretta. So imagine yourself having a cup of coffee with Loretta this morning. And here in Nashville, it was kind of cool. It was kind of chilly, and it was beautiful out. And you smile at Loretta, at your mom, and you say, hey, mom, you know that money you left me? I don't know. I don't owe anybody else anything on our house, ever. We're free because of you. Would Loretta pound the table and go, how dare you pay off your house? Or would she smile and say yes?

Yeah, she would definitely smile. I think that this money was set up, you know, so that I would be set up. And I just want to make sure I'm, you know, doing the right thing with it.

Well, yes. And let's look, practically, if I heard you right, you got 600,000 from her life insurance policy that's sitting in a. In a money market or interest bearing account right now. You've got the 600k sitting there. So.

Yep.

We're telling you to cut the check. Today. I'd honor her today. I'd go have a big dinner tonight and celebrate her toast. Mom.

Yeah. Have them set a table for three.

Oh, that's cool, right? Yeah. And maybe order her favorite dessert and do something fun to thank her for this special day. Because I would be free of that.

Mortgage if I were you right now.

Right now. As soon as we hang up, which we're gonna go ahead and do that for you. So you can do it. Thank you. So sorry for your loss, but excited for your future.

This is what legacy looks like. Moms and dads.

This is what it's about, right?

It's amazing.

Wow. A life well lived. And what a great legacy that we'll live on for a long, long time. This is the Ramsey show.

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This is where you get an honest and hopeful opinion about the problems in your life. Your money problems, your relationship problems, your work problems. This is the Ramsay show. So excited that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me, and we're here for you. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 triple 8825-5225. All right, for those of you out there who like a deal, and that means all you people, that's the Ramsey audience right there. All you rice and beans people. I'm waiting on the discount. Every time we put out a new book, we always hear on social media, I'm waiting, man.

Exactly.

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That won't cut my bacon bill. My bacon bill alone. I got two giant kids that are just filling out. Yeah. Paycheck to purpose, under 16. And by the way, more best selling books so that you can get confidence to win in your money, in your relationships and at work. Ramsaysolutions.com store. Ramsaysolutions.com store. Again, the sale ends Friday at 11:59 p.m. so there you go. Don't miss that. All right, back to the phones we go. San Francisco, California, is where Gabby is. Gabby, how can we help? Hi, Gabby.

Hey, Gabby.

Hey. So, first of all, I just want to say, my fiance and I love the show so much, but I'm calling because I wanted to get your guys's advice. I got accepted into nursing school, and that would prospectively start in August. Last year, while I was finishing up my nursing prerequisites, I actually got a job in local government. And I just wanted your guys perspective or advice on whether or not I should stay at this job or whether I should go for it and go into nursing school.

Okay, before we tell you what we think, I'm curious about what you're thinking right now. Where are you planning right now? Before you get anybody else's advice.

I've honestly been back and forth. Like, I feel like there's no wrong answer. The reasons why I don't want to go into nursing school is because I'm getting married in March of next year. So, you know, there is a wedding to be paid for. And then I'm also a little bit nervous about not working for two and a half years while the program.

Yeah, by the way, very good reasons. Let's have a little hypothetical. What if you didn't lose your income? What if the income was still there and you could go to nursing school without any loss of income? How would that change your decision? Or would it?

I would totally do it.

Wait a second. What? You're telling me with no financial risk or hardship, you would jump into nursing school? Why?

It's just. I mean, when you put it like that.

I know I'm being sneaky, but. But there's a reason. Tell me why. Why would you jump at it if you knew there was no financial hardship or sacrifice?

Because it's something that I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted to be in healthcare. And obviously, I've been working at this for a really long time. And, yeah, I would love to be a nurse. I want to be a nurse. I don't enjoy my job really, here, but it's a comfy. You know, I work in local government. It's a comfy job. Great benefits. I get every other Friday off. I get to work remote like. You know, there's so many things that are good about this job.

Just so comfortable. Until the day it becomes miserable. I want to bring in my psychologist expert pal before we get into the money side of this. John, I feel like I've dug enough here. Oh, there's the sandbox. What do you think, buddy?

I was just trying to keep a quick note, Gabby, of what is Gabby soul worth? And what I got was good insurance. And every other Friday off.

Yep.

I will tell you, the cost for my soul is way higher than that.

Come on.

And yours should be, too.

Yeah, that's the thing. I. I don't really. I don't really like what I do. I mean, it's just. It was just a job to get me through and to save money until I got into nursing school. But honestly, my family makes me feel a little crazy for wanting to leave. Like a comfy.

And your family's broke.

Okay, here we go. By the way, you're talking to the two worst possible hosts you could have called on this issue, because I wrote a book called from paycheck to purpose, and that's all I think about is meaning in the soul. And you've got a psychologist here who, you know, I can't even get through half a sentence without him knowing what I'm thinking. So. So, John, let's camp here, because this is the problem. We've got a family who is projecting their own fears, dare I say, their own failures, on sweet Gabby. Is that right or am I wrong?

Tell me your right. The things that they didn't do in their life, they probably were paycheck to paycheck. They were grinders. And then you got this magic thing called a government job, which is stable. It's got a pension.

Pardon me while I choke over.

Are you crazy? Right? Are we. Are we onto something?

Yes.

No, that's. That's exactly what it is. I live. I mean, the cost of living is high here. I make about 95, which is.

Which is about $3 an hour in San Francisco.

Yeah, and by the way, you know, the San Francisco government is not what we would call stable. Am I right?

Gabby, there's a lot to be said.

All right? So let's dive into them.

All right?

Let's dive into the money piece, because we've already established that you're going to nursing school. You're going to nursing school if you want our opinion, and we know why you're getting pressure. And by the way, we're not demonizing your family at all, but we can kind of call out some stuff and say some stuff that maybe you don't feel comfortable saying. Right. And we're not even going to make you agree because we already know we're right. All right. But. Okay. How much money did you save? You said the purpose of this government job was to save money for nursing school. So here we sit. Did you save any money? And if you did, how much?

I had about 15,000, but I just had to get my car repaired recently, so I'm down to about 10.5k, but I have about 20,000 in a 529 account.

Okay. And how much is nursing school going to cost you?

All in 15.

How much?

15,000.

Okay, good. So we're great. So now, John, we've got the wedding, the wedding planning, and she's got to save up for that. We're going to cash flow that because that's the other thing that you're bringing up. And then we've got the month to month expenses. So how are, so two quick questions. How much do you think the wedding is going to cost? And then quickly tell us, how are you going to survive during nursing school without the cushy government job?

So the wedding, my fiance and I budgeted about 30,000. We've already made payments towards it. So I'm estimating about 20, 20,000 left. I have set a deadline for myself for August to save as much money as I can while I'm still at this job.

Right.

And then my fiance also has money saved and obviously he's also going to be contributing.

So we're going to be able to cover that cash. Right?

It's looking like it.

All right. So how are you going to pay? How are you going to take care of yourself during nursing school?

So my fiance, God bless him, he's totally reassured me and taken on the responsibility and has said, you know, I'll get us through and I'll take care of us.

Do you already live together?

But yes.

Okay. Two weeks ago, a friend of mine who's a comedian and her boyfriend, now husband who's a comedian, I said, why don't y'all just come over to my house and get married? And they did, the Delaunay's threw a wedding.

Did you do the service?

I did the service.

Did you get online?

You did the whole, it's amazing.

You're.

Josephine was the flower girl.

It was perfect.

Here's what I'm saying. Get married right now, today, get through nursing school together, and then throw an amazing wedding party. Just. Just get this thing done. Go to nursing school.

Gosh, we gotta do an online service where you. For a premium, where you marry people. And by the way, for a small part of your fee, I'll sing. Actually, we'll have to pay people. Yeah, that was a bad idea. Good stuff. Hey, thanks for the call. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Hey, if this show is helping you out, we would love for you to consider subscribing, leaving a review, and sharing the show with someone that you think it can help. Whether you are on podcasts, radio, YouTube, and all the other platforms that I'm probably unaware of, triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. Triple 8888-825-5225 I'm ken Coleman. Doctor John deloney joins me this hour, and we're here for you taking your money questions, your relationship questions, your work questions. All three of those areas come together if you are winning in life, and they also are fragmented and fractured, if you will, if you're not winning. So we want to help you. Shawn is up next in amarillo, Texas. Don't sing, John. Shawna, how can we help? There it is. I knew he couldn't resist. Shawna, how are you? Hi.

Thank you guys, for taking my call. I'm good.

Good. What's going on?

I was calling because I have started reading the total money makeover, and I'm wanting to get started on my baby steps, but I'm having a hard time with my budget getting started. I'm a single mom and I stay at home. I am unemployed and I'm only getting about 50 to 150 a week currently. Just odd jobs and selling things out of our home.

Wow.

And I guess my question is, how do I increase my income as a single, stay at home mom and I'm stay at home because I can't afford to send them to childcare.

Right. Are you getting child support payments? Is that how you're sustaining yourself?

No, I actually, I just donate plasma and I babysit when I can. In addition to selling old toys and furniture. Just whatever I can get rid of.

You and your. Tell me about the child. One, two. How many?

I have a four year old and a ten month old.

Oh, my gosh. A four year old and a ten month old. And if I heard you right, you're making somewhere between six hundred dollars to four hundred dollars a month. Am I hearing that right?

That's correct, yes.

How are you feeding the children?

We currently are receiving state benefits.

How much?

And we get about, I'd say about 800 for food.

Anything else? I'm trying to get the entire financial picture. What's the total amount of money you've got coming in between everything you've told us so far and the any other benefits from the state?

My children are on Medicaid. I'm still young enough that my dad is carrying me on his health insurance. And, okay. We're living in hud housing, so I only pay about $28 for rent.

Okay.

But you're just barely all of our utilities.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right. Let's talk about your support system. Any family or good friends in the area where you are?

I've got most of my family here with me and they help me when they can, but most of them are working 40 plus hours a week and the other ones are not old enough or too old to keep up with my children.

Does your family go to church or do they have any kind of community outside of church, outside of the immediate family where they would know? MAYBE some grandmas who are retired?

Yes. We belong to a church here that I've grown up going to, but I haven't. That's mostly my family as well, too. ABOut half of the church I'm related to.

Okay. So here, let me tell you where my brain is going, and I'm really going to recommend that you try this. If you strike out, you strike out. One of the things I would be looking at is there a grandmother, somebody who's retired and they're still young enough and vibrant enough to where they could potentially help out during the week for you, because I understand that there's no way you can send your kids to a traditional daycare. But I'm trying to get very creative here, and I think you ought to ask. You have nothing to lose. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes, sir.

Because if you could put some of that money, you don't have a lot of it, but if they could help out some, that could give you more options. Mike, my concern is, are you going to be able to knock down a full time or at least a substantive part time job with the four month old or, excuse me, the ten month old?

I'm not thinking. So I was recently offered a job, but it was only going to be $12 an hour. And after the childcare cost in our area even.

No, no, no. Listen, I'm sorry. I'm not talking about going out and putting the kids in chalk. I'm saying working from home, which there are a lot of remote jobs. There's customer care, where you're just customer service. I'm going to ask you a few questions in a second. We'll try to come up with some other ideas. But my point is, how much time do you really have to actually work with that baby?

I see. I was managing to work 30 hours when she was from two months to about four months old, or six months, something like that.

Okay. That tells me a lot. John, what I'm digging here is I want to know what your commitment is, because right now you've got some family support, but not as it relates to childcare. Does it sound like. But if you're willing to work the 30 hours and you've done it before, then once babies are in bed, you may have to work harder than you've ever worked in your entire life to get a baseline here. So real quick. And I want John to jump in as well. But just let's talk about your skillset. Give me two or three things that just baseline level. You've got some talent. You were good at it in high school. Whether I ken, I'm organized, or I'm really good at talking to people, I'm looking for just some basic skills that, you know, you have to offer. What are they? Give me two or three.

I not afraid of hard work. In high school, I helped remodeling houses. I've worked in childcare. I've worked in retail. I think I'm pretty versatile when it comes to work.

Okay.

All right.

So here are a couple things I hear right away. I hear that you can talk to people. So there are, there might be some remote sales positions where you're smiling and dialing. Maybe you got some leads, depending on the company. Certainly there's a lot of stay at home jobs where people are doing customer service. So you essentially, you're answering a customer service hotline. They teach you on how to do it. I would be looking for things like that right now to see if I can get 30 hours and if I could be making $15 to $20 an hour. But you've got to be looking for stuff like that where you can say, I've got experience, here's what I've done before. And they're looking for people. And these jobs aren't glamorous, Shawna, but we don't care about glamor right now, do we?

No.

Yeah. John, I want to bring you in here. What are you hearing and feeling?

Two things. One is just a continuation of what you were just saying. You work real hard and you're not scared of hard work. And so I'm wondering if there is something to be said for the next six months, the next seven months. Is this ideal? Absolutely not. You are not in an ideal situation. You know that. We all know that. But, um, somebody in your family gets home at 05:00 and you go through boxes until midnight, and you make $20 an hour at the late shift at Walmart. And then you come home and then you do that again, and you do it again. And you're a single mom who's so tired, it's hard to even open your eyes. And you are blazing a trail through a forest that nobody's traveled before for those kids. And they're going to look up and, yes, you're going to miss some time. Yes, you're going to be exhausted. Yes, you're going to be stumbling around. And in two years, three years, four years, you're going to have your own place, and you're going to have some security that you don't have right now. Okay? But we're at the level of radical.

The other thing is, I spent 20 years out in West Texas. I know you are on a precipice that if you don't act with this, like, decisively, soon, you're going to cross into the matrix. It's almost impossible to get out of the poverty matrix. You know what I'm talking about?

Yes, sir.

Okay. You're right there on the edge, aren't you?

Yes.

Okay. I am going to do something. And I haven't even made this phone call, but I'm going to make the phone call. Two of my mentors, Lynn and Steve Jennings, who own Jennings counseling and associates out there in Amarillo, Texas, they're going to give you two free sessions, okay?

Yes.

And I want you to go meet with them with the goal of finding work and finding the. Because you've been knocked down recently, too, haven't you?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. So much.

They're going to stand up for you. Jennings and associates, Lynn and Steve. We have not talked about this, but I'm just. I just know your hearts. And so you're going to take care of the sweet woman. I want you to stay on the line, Shawna, but you have to decide. We're going to get radical, radical, radical right now, and I will not become another statistic. And then we're going to wrap some support around you. And like Ken said, you're going to have to go ask some uncomfortable questions. Will you help me? Will you help me? Will you help me?

Yeah. And let's do this, too, Shauna, we're also going to give you my get clear assessment in the new book, find the work you're wired to do, not for the short term, but I want you to begin seeing that there is a path that John's talking about. But first and foremost, you got to do everything that John said. We'll give you that tool because we want you to be looking forward. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. This is the Ramsey show. It's where you get help to win in your life, specifically in your money life, in your relationship life, and in your work life. We are here for you. Triple 8825-5225 Triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me, and we are here for you this hour. Let's get right to the phones. Daniel is up in Syracuse, New York. Daniel, how can we help.

You?

Doing good.

Hey, can you maybe move your phone a little bit? Feels like you might be a bit muffled so we can hear you better.

How about now?

Perfect.

Daniel, what a lovely voice you have. What's going on?

Hey, appreciate it. So I got a question on my parents. They are pretty deeply in debt and just wondering how I might be able to talk to them, but having some kind of walls come up as I'm talking to them about their debt, because they're in about 60,000 of credit card debt and it's been a struggle.

Oh, is that the only debt they have?

They've got their mortgage. They say that in about three years, it'll be paid off. They've got cars as well. I'm not sure how much they got. Pretty nice cars, like a Toyota and a mazda. Relatively. Maybe a couple years old.

Okay.

How old are you?

I'm 30.

30. Have they called and asked you your insights and opinions on their credit card debt?

Absolutely not.

It's been my experience and the experience of those of us who do this show. Parents don't like receiving unsolicited feedback on their money or their sex life from their children, just as a general rule.

Hold on a second. Just a quick question. Are 30 year olds talking to their parents about their sex life? I got the money thing, but you just threw me for a loop there.

Yeah, just. It's just. It's the new. It's this. It's part of the. I'm best friends with my kid generation.

Oh, I see.

And we talk about, quote unquote, everything. There's people in the audience.

Sorry.

Nope. No. Nope.

My body was waiting to release that one. I just.

So here's the deal. You love your parents, don't you? And you hate seeing them struggle, right?

Oh, yeah. It's the worst seeing them go through it.

How did it come up, by the way, the first time you made. Yeah. No, no. How did this whole conversation about their deck come up? I'm curious.

He's been through it for decades, but I recently want to talk to them about it, because now, hey, I'm on the Ramsey planes these past couple months, I can actually see a way for my financial future. Like, hey, perfect for my parents. Let me try to help you guys out.

So, you called them up with the formula for cold fusion. You're very enthusiastic about it. Okay. I'm caught up. John.

Yeah. Hey, man, you're 30, and you've probably seen this before, and you'll continue to see this throughout your life. One of the hardest things to experience as a person is watching people you love continue to make decisions that you know are hurting them and who they will not take your advice. They don't want your input. And it's just heartbreaking because you got a plan. You got a plan, and they don't want anything to do with it. And they're choosing this to be where they are right now, and that's just hard. I think the greatest thing you could do is not judge them and not lob grenades at them. But you continue to live by example and become a person so full of light and joy that they have to stop and go, dude, what have you done? You could say, I don't owe anybody anything. I could do whatever I want. And maybe, just maybe, you can sit down and have that conversation with them.

Daniel, when you brought it up, was there real tension? I mean, and we don't need to hear blow by blow, but I'm just curious. Has this been a very tentious, a very tense situation? On a scale of one to ten, one being chill, ten being world war three, where would you put this conversation? How would you rank it? I'm going somewhere.

Yeah, I'd say three or four. They're willing to talk about it, but as soon as it comes down to, hey, maybe we should look at income and expenses and talk about a budget, then that's. Well, let's change the subject.

Yeah, of course. So here's. I want to run this by John. Run this through the proper psychological process. If I were you, Daniel, I'd probably call them back pretty soon. Or sit down with them and just go, hey, listen, I've been thinking. I came on a little hot, and I know you guys are adults, and here's the deal. I had no intention of dishonoring or disrespecting you. So here's what I wanted you guys to hear me say. Mom, dad, you heard my two cent. If you want to hear it, you know where to find me. I did not mean to do anything other than just help, but I realized I crossed the line. Will you forgive me? And I would leave it at that, because I think that that will give you the shot at them coming to you when they realize they need it. I just feel they. They were just disrespected. You're like, who are you, whippersnapper?

John, that's exactly what it is. It's the powdered butt syndrome. I powdered your butt. So I don't hear your thoughts on money. And there's a little bit of shame, right? There's a little bit of, hey, how are you guys spending your money? Like, whoa, slow down. And. And, Daniel, you don't know this, but I remember when I was seeing counseling clients in my practical man. They would tell me about their love lives, about their intimacy lives. They tell me everything. They would not talk about their debt. They wouldn't talk about their money because it's such a source of shame. And so it may be that your parents are trying to protect you from how tough things really are, and they don't want to scare you. They don't want to be embarrassed. And so just a lot wrapped up in that. And so I love Ken's wisdom. Call them back and say, dude, I was out of line. I'm sorry. You don't even ask. And I'm here throwing grenades like I'm a 30 year old know it all. This is working for me in my house. If you'll ever have questions, man, you call anytime, night or day, and I'll be there for you.

But I'm not going to let this get in the way of how much I love you guys.

That makes sense. And I was really hoping, doctor John, you're going to say, hey, just let them know how you feel, how is affecting you, and maybe they might be willing to, but sounds like that's not a good route to go.

If they ask you, then, yes, I do think at 30 is the age when my dad and I, and again, my dad's a homicide detective, so we joked and talked about death way too much in my house and probably more than was healthy, but. But 30 was when we started talking about wills and where stuff was and where the insurance paperwork and the state of things in our house. And so maybe in that same conversation, you can say, I'm just nervous about, I want to honor you guys in the future. I did this wrong. I came off trying to tell you how to handle your money. That's not my job. But I do want to talk about, do you have a will? Where is it? Like, let's just make sure we're all on the same page as I'm getting older, and that may be another entry point into the conversation.

Okay.

Yeah, I think. I think John, if he goes that route and you didn't give him that advice because it still couldn't come across the wrong way, if he's like, this is how it's affecting me.

No, they'll stop you. Like, I didn't, I didn't ask you how this is affecting you.

I could see my dick on. Get over it. I don't know why it's affecting you that way, pal. You know, it's very interesting. The dynamic is really, I was talking to somebody the other day because I'm in that stage now where my parents are in their seventies and you're beginning to see the slowdown. They're still quite there cognitively. But it is a really tough relationship scenario to start stepping in. At some point, you do have to take on the role of the parent, but, boy, that's never easy, is it?

No. And that's why I love. I mean, I've just been blessed to see it done. It's such a quote unquote the right way with my family talking about it before there was any emergencies. Talking about, I know where the will is. I got a copy at my house. I know where the stuff is at my dad's house. So just knowing before we get into some of those hard things. But, yeah, that switch is always messy, messy, messy. And the more honest and open we can be, the better.

Tough stuff. We're rooting for you, Daniel. Hang in there. Just honor them and let it play out. And I know that's harder to do. Do that. It is for me to say. This is the Ramsey show. Welcome back, America. You're listening to the Ramsey show. The phone number is triple 888-25-5225 triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me. We're here for you. And we go to Denver, Colorado, next, where Dane is joining us. Dane, how can we help? I love that. Why is that so funny to me?

I don't know.

Dad jokes.

Dane, if you were my friend, I'd call you great. Dane, what's up?

Dan would, too.

I hear it all the time. How are you guys?

We're doing kind of deflated now. I thought I just made that up, but such it is.

So what's every baseball coach since I've been a little kid? All right. My wife and I are in a debate right now. Should we hold off from building a second home until we can cash flow it? I've heard y'all mention before that second homes are quote unquote toys. But does this apply if my primary residence is already paid for?

Do you have any other debt?

No, I have zero debt. Yeah. And I'm a babysat millionaire. My net worth is, like 1.5. I save 23% of my income.

How much money do you have?

Right.

How much money do you have set aside for this second home?

Well, we've been cash flowing up to this point last four years. We've done $89,000. And that did the land, the septic, the well, the access road, the electricity, and a foundation. Okay, so my real problem, my wife wants to wait, just cash flow at all. And I do see the point in doing that, but my problem is a full rush for time. I'm trying to do this for us to enjoy with kids up in the mountains of Colorado, and it's going to take us about seven years to do that. My daughter will be 18. My son will be 15 at that point. You know, so that's kind of what I'm up against. I'm not opposed to waiting. It's just. It isn't what I.

Well, no, you are, because. No, hold on. You are. You're opposed to it. She wants to. She wants to cash flow the rest of it. And you're like, no, man, I've sacrificed and waited long enough. And that's why you guys are having the debate. So you call us.

Correct.

Hey, we're having a debate. And which. Which way you think we're leaning in this debate position, at least? Which way? I'll go first. Which way you think I'm going on this one?

I know which way y'all are going to go. I just thought I could be the exception to the rule.

You know, Dane, I will say you have an exceptional name. And we already told you how great it was. No pun intended.

Uh huh.

But you don't get it. You don't get a pass on this. Now, my question becomes, now, this is the way I think, John. Dane, I understand completely how you feel. I mean, I get it. I completely understand that I'm in the same situation on a pool and some other things that I want to do for the family. And I got my first one leaving the nest. And I've been through all that crap, and I get it. It's the wrong narrative, but I get it. So my question becomes, how do you shorten that timeline with more income? That would be my immediate position. I'm going. All right. I'm not going to go into debt. I've been so disciplined at this point. I got the dag on foundation poured. Right. So now how do I turn. Did you say seven years? How do I turn seven into three? What's the number that would do that?

Well, I'm. I'm already stretched in. Man, I didn't ask that.

I didn't ask that. I get it.

I literally. I can't. I can't do anymore. I mean, I work. I have three jobs. I wrote some successful books that I gained revenue on. I'm working on another one.

Okay, hold on. I'm with you. But I still asked you, what's the number? Roughly, that would turn seven years into three.

About 100,000.

Okay, and how much are you bringing in? How much are you bringing in with these three jobs and all these books?

Um, it varies. Book sales up and down. But I'm at, um, low in, like, 140. High end, like, 160.

Okay, that's all in. That's all the jobs, all the books.

That.

That's everything.

What's your primary what's your primary income? What. What field are you in? What do you do?

Yeah, I'm a land surveyor for the state of Colorado, and I can do a lot of the work. I already have done as much as I can on the property myself as far as that goes.

What are the other two jobs that you're spending all this time on?

Yeah, I'm licensed across the country, so the state of Oregon is very low on licensed land surveyors, so I work part time for some firms out there. That pretty much takes up my nights, sometimes my weekends, too.

And what's the third job?

I have two of those firms.

Okay.

So, yeah, I'm doing that for two firms. Then I got my normal state job.

And then is there a way for you to make more money than doing those two surveying things? Feels like that's capped income and it takes a lot of time, right?

Yeah.

Or is there a way for you to partner with your wife and say, all right, we'll cashflow this, but I need your help getting a job over the next three years, maybe even part time. And I understand we want to keep the house free, but also, I don't want this thing to be built as our daughter's leaving the house to go to college. Would she participate in that?

Yeah, she does. She manages some, like, Airbnb style places for some people. She makes. No, no. Like, $800 a month doing that.

Here's what I'm challenging you on, and John, jump in here. I just think you guys are exchanging too much time for the money you're making. If I was all in and I needed a hundred grand, and my guess is you don't need a hundred. Do you? Do you need a hundred from this point on to get there in three years, or do you got some of the hundred saved? How much do you have saved?

No, I have. I could throw about 50 at it.

So wait a second.

Like, our emergency. Emergency stuff, you know? Well, no, no, no, no.

That's not. We don't use the emergency fund for the dream home.

Well, that's on top. The emergency fund.

Okay, so if I'm hearing you right, Dane, you need to make another 50 grand, and we cut this timeline in half.

Yep. About. Yes.

50 grand between the two of you. You guys are spending too much time doing the wrong thing. The question is, is how do we make more money for our time?

Yeah. Yeah.

So you're right. I mean, I know you know what I would be doing if I were you? I would be running an exercise on how much am I making per hour, just for fun. How much am I making per hour as a surveyor outside of my day job? I get why you went that path. Makes a lot of sense. And then how much money is she making per hour? Start looking at that. Am I right?

And then you lean it up against dollar 22 an hour for throwing boxes at Walmart or $21 an hour working at McDonald's. And it's not sexy. But, man, yeah, if you're. If you're surveying and she's cleaning Airbnbs or managing Airbnb properties for less than what you can make at a local arby's, I'm gonna have some hard conversations with myself.

Grand. I just don't understand how you came up with seven years from now having 50 grand. Unless I misunderstood something.

Well, yeah, I mean, y'all. Y'all are right. When y'all say, I've heard Mister Ramsay sell the time, this is what you think a house is going to cost to build? Multiply by four or two. That's what it's going to cost.

What I'm saying, Dana's. I'm working off your numbers, but. But I know. Yeah. My point is, is that if. What I heard is that you only need 50 more grand to get to that 100, that would allow you to finish this house, bro. That's. That's. That's just a shy above four grand a month. You guys could figure out a way to do that.

Yeah, we could. Yeah, you're right.

So I got to be honest with you, man. This is. I don't get what's going on here. You're the one holding up your timeline.

Don't say it too well.

Here's Dane. It's a common thing that we all experience. Which is? Well, that we. We pretend that the fences that we've built in our own lives are concrete. They're just not. And sometimes it takes a third party like Ken to go push on it, and the whole thing falls over, and you're like, oh, that. I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that. And often it feels like either we have to borrow money or we're going to send our kid away to school and they're never going to get to see the vacation home. Neither of which are true. What's a third and a fourth and a fifth and a 6th option? Maybe we cut the timeline in half. Maybe she stays at home and does a year of whatever the we can get on, go down a rabbit hole. There but it's always anytime you feel boxed in, ask yourself, all right, hold on. I'm gonna invent three or four more options and see if we can make those come true. But Ken is right on. You're too smart and too savvy, and you work too hard.

You can find 50 grand. You and your wife together. No question about it, man.

I'm ready to build a house now. It's exhausting. Feel bad for him, but you've made it this far. Stay the course. Stay the course. Thanks for the call, Dane. We're rooting for you. And you are, in fact, sir. Great. This is the Ramsey show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show, where we help you win in your life. We help you win with your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me, and boy, oh, boy, I don't know what we did, right or wrong. Wrong, to deserve this wrong. The article in my hands, folks, is another exhibit that the apocalypse is coming soon. Some of you are going, what are you talking about? Well, here's the headline. This is a New York Post article which should warn you. I want an inflation ship. I want to make sure the audience hears me, that I've enunciated properly. Inflation ship. Let's live sexless and financially free in the same bed. Well, this is a headline. This is a real headline, John. This is apparently a story about a cash strapped millennial who has recently made a mass plea for a platonic soulmate to move into his bed, split expenses, and live with him fiscally ever after.

This is a guy by the name of Ben Keenan, who's 31, from Seattle, and is a travel influencer. Make of that what you will. And the post, of course, is on tick tock, which has become the gutter of our mental society. It's just. It's just garbage. All right, here's a direct quote, John. Feel free to jump in at any point. I'm looking to date somebody this direct quote, I'm looking to date somebody so that we can sleep platonically next to each other and I can have the rent that I pay for a one bedroom apartment. He went on to gripe about paying $2,000 a month in rent for 5000. Excuse me, a 500 square foot apartment that he lives in alone. Rent is not created for single people. This is a real person saying stupid things like this.

This is a real person saying real things.

Bills are not created for single people, John.

Um, hold on. Even better.

This is my favorite.

My groceries are $200 a week. Let's talk about the fact that it could be a week because I'm throwing out half my food. Because nothing is created for single people.

Apparently neither are storing devices such as Tupperware.

No Tupperware.

He's throwing out half his food.

I know.

This is a real genius here. Um, so this gets better. I need a platonic soulmate who's going to be sleeping in my bed for the next 100 years. So this is a complete, utter moron who's gone on TikTok and gotten unbelievable amounts of traction because the article goes on to say that people are responding and going, this is so true. Adult platonic life partners is the move, chimed one supporter. And on and on the support goes for some of the most illogical, moronic statements I've ever heard in my life. And doctor John has now pushed himself away from the microphone.

I'll tell you what I'm upset about.

Please break it down. I'm surprised you made it this far.

Here's what I think's ridiculous. In the 21st century. All right, where's the miniature unicorns, Ken? It's ridiculous.

Well, okay. Can I just throw something at you? Why do you have to share the bed with the person? This sounds like a roommate to me.

Oh, how privileged are you? Because you don't understand what it's like to live in these humongous, cool, hip metropolitan cities and the expensive rents on these teeny tiny closet sized apartments.

No, I do understand, but have the roommate. Why does it get creepy? Why do you have to have the person in the bed with you? Can we just do like Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler if we had.

That kind of space? Jerk.

Also you're saying they have to.

It's because we only have enough space.

For a queen size.

For a queen size bed. Yeah.

Okay.

And I'm just curious.

Are there any women out there that find that to be creepy? I find it to be creepy if some dudes putting that out there. I need you to be my platonic partner.

Well said. There's another 36 year old entrepreneur from Australia recently revealed she rakes in $600 a month via hot bedding or renting out the unoccupied side of her bed for extra cash.

Folks, I'm not kidding you. I am not an alarmist. But today it starts. If we don't have a meteor crashing down on us inside of six months, then I've missed it. Because this kind of thinking. I'm not even trying to be irritated. I just don't understand it. John. People are renting out the side of their bed, I got to tell you. So, basically, they made a movie once called friends with benefits was Justin Timberlake and Mila Kunis. Mila Kunis. Thank you very much. And this is friends without benefits.

Yeah.

Otherwise, a roommate that we sleep in the same bed because we can't afford two beds. Is that what you're telling me? Feel like you really got to this. That's the whole proposal, yeah. How long before people start proposing that they buy a house like this? Renting, by the way, this genius. And this is why you shouldn't be paying attention to any influencer on TikTok. This genius has said a couple of things that I need, that bills are not for single people. Bills are not for single people.

Food is not for single people.

Well, that's great. Then I guess if they starve, the bills go away, and it makes it a little bit easier for the rest of us. This is natural selection, folks. What this is.

This is darwinism medicine.

Am I right?

Yeah.

I take it away.

I don't have it. This is the longest I've been speechless, I think, in my adult life. But I have no words to say the absurdity of it all. Yeah, things are super expensive, but if I don't have anything to add, ken, this is just insanity and madness and more insanity and more madness.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. Because there's always get a better job, get an actual roommate, or move to.

A community where that you can afford to live in.

Oh, and here's what's. Can I also say this? And I'm not trying to be unkind to the folks at the New York Post, but this is the kind of crap that makes the media what they are. This is all clickbait, and. And we just played into it, but we did it to do a public service. Stop clicking on this crap, folks. Inflation ship. Really? That's the word. I mean, man, let's move on to real stuff, shall we? Marks in San Jose, California. Mark, please pull us from this.

This?

Yes. Mark, how's it going?

That was hilarious. Thanks for having me on. I'm a huge fan of the show. Yeah. I'm married with three kids. I'm 38 years old. I work in tech, and I'm making about 400,000 a year. We had what we thought was a really smart idea to move away, get off the hamster wheel in the bay area, and move to Ohio, and in doing so, move closer to family and also wipe out our debt entirely. No mortgage, no school loans, no nothing. We enacted this plan, and I'll be getting a 25% pay cut for cost of living. But then, right as we're getting ready to leave, I just got another job offer for 600,000 a year, and I want to know. It was a smart idea to move away for a 25% pay cut. 300,000 a year. But now, is it still a smart plan? What are your opinions on this?

To stay. Is a 600K job staying in your area?

Yeah, exactly. It would be still within the Bay area.

Okay, hold on. Plot twist. Have you thought about moving to Ohio and renting out the middle of your bed?

Maybe you could get an entire family to all sleep with you guys.

I'm just saying relationship is real.

I think that's a good point.

I think you could make up the other gap.

You know what? I stand corrected, John. There you went. And you just totally disprove my entire theory.

Mark's a smart guy.

Mark, here's the question. Can you not pay everything off with this new $600,000 job in a pretty short amount of time?

I mean, I guess, yeah. My mortgage was about 860,000.

Mark, what do you want to do?

Yeah, what do you want your life to be? Dude, answer that question.

No, wrong answer. What's your heart telling you?

I think having my kids grow up closer to their family.

You have our permission to not take a $600,000 a year job. It's an awesome. You're a talented guy. You're always going to have opportunity. You get. You get to decide, like few people do. What kind of life do you want to have? And this is the kind of life you want to have.

That's it. You'll make it. You'll make it up. I don't think that's a pay cut that stays very long. I love this decision. I agree with John 100%. This is a classic, essentially what John and I do when we coach people. It's a. The wrestling match between the head and the heart. And the head's going. Turning down 600,000.

Are you crazy?

You're a moron. Like the guy who wants an inflation ship.

That's your dad's voice.

You're not your genius. Take the life. Change that you know you guys want. Doctor John is absolutely right. Thanks for the call, man. Congrats. You're getting out of the bay area. You won the lottery. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple 8825-5225 Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney is with me. And speaking about something we're thrilled about. You know, every once in a while, you know, when you do stuff that we get to do at Ramsey Solutions, which is make products and services to help people, you see something catch fire because it hits a nerve and it feels like the marriage and money event. Excuse me. Money and marriage. I said it wrong. The money and marriage event is certainly that.

Right.

And they got another one coming up.

That's right. And good news and bad news. The bad news is we have one coming up in October, and it sold out in record time.

Oh, wow.

So it's gone.

Congrats.

The good news is we added another one for Valentine's Day, 2025. You're welcome, gentlemen. We've taken care of everything for you. Valentine's Day in the bag, 2025, here in Nashville, Tennessee. You spend a weekend in Nashville where you and your spouse can get away from the insanity of home life and focus on your marriage. Two and a half days, you can hang out with me and Rachel Cruz and others in Nashville. So you never know who's going to pop in and hear expert teachings on communication, um, sex and intimacy. Get on the same page with money, emotional connection, and more. Tons and tons of, uh, Q and a with me and Rachel. If you don't get your question answered, it's because you didn't ask it. There's tons of time to just hang. And we also throw a rad, rad party. Ken, do you need a dj? It was kind of off the hook, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, the party they threw last year was pretty incredible.

Tell me about the party. Are you allowed to, or is this like a. You only. You only experience it? We're not gonna tell you about it. Yeah.

All I can say is I see the next morning when we. When the conference continued after the party.

Uh oh. A lot of ibuprofen going around.

No, it wasn't that. It was a lot of. It was a lot of very happy people. There was lots and lots and lots and lots of smiles.

Oh, I see what you did there. Glow. Is it warm in here or is it just me? The glow of the.

It was warm.

Okay. See, how did I walk right into that?

I'm just telling. It was quite the party.

By the way, if you want me to dj, I've got a ton of Chicago and Peter Satiris stuff.

It would, I think the crowd would slay.

All right. It's a little side hustle. You're the meaning in my life. You're the inspiration. Thank you. Shout out to all my friends in the eighties and nineties.

Tickets start at $699 and you can get yours while early bird pricing is still happening. And save up to $350 if you want a vip level ticket. They may be gone.

Don't be Wilson Phillips. And hold on for one more day. I'm sorry, I know that there's change, but you hold on for one more day.

Break free from the chain.

There it is. I love Wilson Phillips, man. Guys, hurry.

February 13 through 15th. Get your tickets at Ramsey solutions.com. events running just as fast as we can can. Oh, it's gonna be so good.

Gonna be good. See, why would you not want to come for some of those spontaneous moments. Good stuff. Ramsey solutions.com is where you go to get those.

That's right. Slash events there it is.

Gonna be fun. All right, I'll work on the djing situation. I don't think it's gonna happen, but I'm gonna try. We'll see what happens. I know a few people. Let's go to Las Vegas, Nevada, where Brian is joining us. Brian, how can we help?

Hey, guys. How are you doing?

Good. Thanks for taking my call, Dan. And doctor John. Doctor John, love to hear you sing some more. So.

No, no, no.

Did you know that's the first time that sentence has been uttered in the english language just then?

Wow. Well, real quick, before I get to my question, I just wanted to thank you guys. All the Ramsey personalities, my wife and I. Listen well. I drive that bus every day while we're sitting there eating lunch, and I've constantly listening to the show. So we're like diehards. We've taken care of almost all of our debt. We're moving into baby step six. Getting our house is going to be our next thing on our list. So we've just been totally stoked over everything that you guys do. So thank you for that, my question. I've got a 20 year old son who is living on his own. He's been on his own since he graduated high school. And he has managed to go to electrical school to become an electrician, which we were all for. Super excited for that. He had a job in the electrical field for about nine months and said it was too hard. And now he's delivering pizzas at night. And so he fell behind. He's got a paid for car, he's got his apartment, and he's got a $6,000 credit card bill. Now, to his credit, he handed over the discover card to me and said, this is out of control, and I'm not making good choices with this.

And I'm like, no, you're not. And so when he went through that transition phase between his electrical job and now he's doing deliveries at night, he's just like, I just don't think that's for me. And whatever, and whatever, I just don't know what to do to. I feel like we're behind. He's behind the eight ball a little bit. And he's got this awesome career decision he made, and now he's not doing anything about it. And I give you a little bit more context. He went through a very, very difficult mental health break when he was about 15 years old and recovered from that. And he's. He's much better in that respect. So I have to be honest, I've kind of wanted to treat him as a kid a lot and supplement help to him. And I'm just afraid he's going to get to this point. He's moving in two months to another apartment. So that's cheaper, right? Because he moved two years ago in the middle of the pandemic. And I'm just. I told him, I'm not co signing for you, so you better get your stuff together. And I just don't know what to do.

He just does not seem to be taking this too seriously.

Well, man, John, I want to turn this over to you. Such limited time, but I just want to address one thing on the work piece very quickly. I want to get out of the way because I think there's a lot going on here on the work piece. Brian, as his dad, I would actually take the pressure off and you may have already done so. I would be sitting down if you were my son. And I would just be learning more about the comment that it was really hard. I wonder if there's more there that it just. It wasn't that it was just hard as far as physically hard, but it may not have been his thing. He may have been struggling to do it at a level and maybe he'd lost confidence. I would dig into more, a very safe, encouraging conversation. I'm going to give you the get clear assessment and the book. Find the work you're wired to do for him. And I want you to be the dad where you go, hey, no big deal. You're young enough to turn this around. I don't think he's behind the eight ball. I really don't.

And I'm going to. I'm going to leave it at that. Let John talk about the history of the mental health and what's going on here. But from a work standpoint, I would say I love the fact that you hand me your credit card and I love that you are at least delivering pizzas and I'm going to support you. Here's a resource and let's talk through this, your results, and let's figure out what direction he does want to go. But by digging into why it was so hard, let's just see if it was hard work or if it was very, very difficult and he's not really wired to do it and then help him reset and see what else is out there. But, John, I want to bring you in for the. For the bigger part of this call.

Yeah. Brian, you're young. Your boy's lonely, isn't he?

Yeah, actually.

Yeah.

He doesn't have very and many friends.

He's probably got. He's probably. And this is a very common thing for young men to start to spin out because they got nobody. Are you. Do you live close by him?

Yeah.

Okay.

Starting tomorrow, I want you guys, I want you to set up a breakfast at 07:00 a.m. with him twice a week. No agenda, other than you got to come meet with me and I'm picking up the bill. And here's what I want you to seek to do. I want you to get. To seek to get to know your son. I'm going to send you a bunch of questions for humans, just to give you all something to do at the table. You can bring a game, you can bring whatever, no agenda. But I want you to get to meet your son. And like Ken, it's going to come up. Hey, man, when you said it was hard, tell me about that. And what his body is desperate for right now is human connection. He doesn't have that. And so everything feels overwhelming and everything feels hard. And your dad. Sirens are starting to go off because you remember when he was 15, right? Yeah, that's right. So we're going to. We're going to double down. Not on a plan. He's going to be fine, dude. Me and Ken didn't start our jobs here until our late thirties, early forties.

Right? Like, he's going to be fine in terms of being behind the eight ball. He's not going to be okay if he's. If his body continues to deteriorate into loneliness. So you could double down and connect with him. And we're going to start there. Hang on the line and we'll get you hooked up. Yeah.

You're a good dad, Brian. You're a good dad. I promise it's going to be okay. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey show. It's where we help you win in your life. Winning in your money life, in your relationship life, and in your work life is our goal. And we do it through hopeful and practical advice, basically, on what we would do if we were in your shoes. So we're excited to be with you. Triple 888-825-5225 is the number. Triple 888-825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me as well. Let's go to Chicago, Illinois. Michael is there. Michael, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Honor to talk to both of you. I'm a avid listener and we follow the baby steps. We're all out of debt completely. I have a small business and it's completely out of debt. Cash flowing itself a little bit. My biggest question is, me and my wife are struggling in our marriage. We've been together 33 years. Started dating when we were 15 and 16. We are married almost 26 years now. But we've struggled, man. It's been a battle. They're just. There's so much. I don't even know where to start.

Start with what's on your heart right now. What. What happened to made you think, I'm gonna pick up the phone and give. And give these dudes a call?

Well, so, eleven years ago, I had diagnosed with brain tumors, which I recovered from, had three different surgeries. This should not be about me. But. So that's, in turn, made my right wife think, okay, she didn't know what was going to happen to me, right? So she automatically went into independent mode, thinking that she's going to have to handle everything. And so, which led to some resentment, you know, here in the past few years. And then she had an emotional affair with what? Guy used to be my friend.

How long ago was that?

That was in 2022. Okay. And then the biggest kicker, I think, for me was the physical activity that happened August 3 of 23 22. I'm sorry. So that's been a year and a half ago or so.

Physical activity. What do you mean? She sleep with somebody else?

Well, I think so. But they both deny it.

Okay, what makes you think so?

They don't deny that there was, I guess, just a lack of trust.

Okay.

So everything else that happened before that.

And this is important at this point, you've lost trust. And so when we lose trust in somebody that we're with, a lot like whether it's a co worker, whether it's a boss, or whether it's a spouse, sibling, we start to create stories about that gap. Right. In relationship, we start to write stories, and we usually write the most caustic ones, the scariest ones, because they help justify why that feeling we have inside, which is scary and dark and resentful. Right.

Right.

I hate that for you, man. I'm sorry. Do you still love this woman? You want to stay married?

That's. That's just it. I don't think either one of us. The one two's gone. Um, so I have. I have a for her on her behalf.

I just asked you a question. You blew by it.

What? What? I'm sorry.

Do you want to stay married to this question?

Do you want to stay married to her?

Are you there?

I guess my silence answers that question, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't answer for me. Because if you say, no, I don't want to be married to her, then we can talk on another phone call about how you're going to separate this thing and what divorce is going to look like and what splitting up your estate is going to look like and what sitting down explaining all this to your kids is going to look like. We can go through all that. That's. That's going to be another call, right? If you say no, I'm terrified to say this out loud, but I do still love her and I do want to figure this out. We can't be married how we've been married, but I want her to be my person as we build something new. I can help you with that, because I've had that conversation with my wife several times over the course of 20 plus years. We sit down and say, the marriage we had is over. I cannot be married the way we've been married, period. And trust me, she's saying the same thing. And so we have a choice. We can split up, or we're going to build something completely new. And we've built something new every time.

And it's never not been better, and it's never been fun. It's always been hard.

Okay, so what's the answer, Mark?

What's the answer? I'm gonna love you either way. But you gotta be honest with yourself.

That's why I called. I don't know the answer, and I'm more scared to death to make the wrong decision. We want to be together and order together. Then we butt heads.

Wait a second. Wait a second. John's the pro here, but let me. Let me play the dumb, untrained guy. I actually think you want to be married to her.

I do too. I think you're scared to say it out.

Call us. You don't call us unless you want John specifically to jump in here and help out. Am I right?

Right.

Are you scared that you want to be married to her and she doesn't want to be married to you?

Yes.

Okay. That's the. That's the most honest thing you've said since we've been on the phone, and I'm proud of you for saying it. That's scary.

Yeah. I don't want to be. And I've told her this. I don't want to be second place.

That's right.

You know, and I know what she thought she had with that guy was out of this world. And I saw it on her face, you know, and it. It's hard to.

Wow.

Yeah. And so I. Yeah.

And I witnessed this and just thinking it was payback for crap that I put through her, but, you know, put her through, so.

Yeah, but there is no payback like that, because if you pay each other back, you both lose every time. Right. So everybody's losing all the time. The question is, or the statement is, what y'all had is over. Your old marriage is over. There's a period at the end. The question y'all have before you is, are we gonna. Are we going to rebuild something new? And if we are, here's what I need. Because here's what your wife was feeling. She was feeling completely dead in her home. And this guy laughed at her joke. This guy was a little bit funny. This guy was a little bit. A little. Paid a little bit of attention to her, and her heart started beating again, and it took on a life of its own, because for the first time in a long time, she felt.

What?

Alive?

Yep.

And the question you'll have before you is what do each of us need in this home to begin to feel alive again? Because I think you'll love each other and you'll have done a quarter century plus together. And so that's your roadmap back. Will you set these old bricks down? Because you've done your fair share of stuff over 30 years to fair. Okay, fair. So nobody's hands are clean. The question is, do we want to wash our hands off of this hose and build something new? And you've told me, yeah, I actually do want that. But it takes two of you. So you got to sit down at that table and have that hard conversation. And then if she says yes and you say yes, then you'll have to have some clear action statements about what comes next. We're going to have coffee together every morning. We're going to say good night to each other every night. We're going to check each other's phones. Whatever y'all have to do to begin to rebuild trust and to rebuild laughter and joy and aliveness in your home. And button heads is just part of the process. Part of the process.

Your move, my brother. Your move.

It's real stuff happening right here on the Ramsey show. Don't move. More calls coming up.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney joins me this hour. We are here for you answering your money questions, your relationship questions, and your work questions. Triple 888-825-5225 Triple 8825-5225 next we go to Louisville, Kentucky, where Hunter joins us. There he is. Hunter, how can we help?

Hey, pleasure talking to you guys.

You, too. What's going on?

Just seeking some advice. I've just started a PhD program on cash flowing that, but at the same time, me and my wife are renting a house. We want to eventually buy a house and also wanting to invest into retirement. When I'm looking at all three of those doing the math, I have a hard time being able to do all three of those at the moment, you can't.

You can't. Yeah, just stop. You can't. What are you getting? A PhD?

Practical theology.

What are you going to do with that?

I'm hoping to teach. I work at church now. I want to go academic if I can.

Okay, what's the. I know where you're going there, John. I got to ask, what's the income range upon receiving that PhD? What do you expect to make or what can you make?

I expect, I don't know, 80 to 100,000 a year.

Have you asked any professors of theology?

I have. The one I asked has done it for a long time, and he's in that range, but I don't know where I would start.

Not there. Yeah, I'm assure you, not there.

100%. And you need to know this, Hunter. Don't take our word for it. I need your eyes to see that John's telling you the truth so that you. It helps this whole financial discussion.

Yeah. And just dig into the. Is it a demon? No, it'd be a PhD in practical theology. Like applied theology?

Yeah.

You don't hear a lot of PhDs in applied skill based things. Right. So all I'm saying is this, make sure you have those conversations you did ask somebody. That's cool. I would actually ask some faculty members who are new because I'm guessing they're signing on for maybe 50,000, maybe 60,000 max. And they're having to work their way through and, yeah, after 30 years and getting tenure and partridge into paratrooper, you can work your way up. But, yeah, my understanding, and I've worked at multiple faith based universities, and several of my closest friends are theology professors. That's pretty impressive salary range that you're talking about.

What do you do now and what do you make?

So I am a youth pastor and I make about 50, 55.

Okay.

And what's this practical theology PhD costing you out of pocket?

Anywhere up 20 to 25,000.

All in or per year?

All in. That's for the three year program.

Okay.

How much do you have left?

I just started. Oof, about three years.

John, I want your opinion on this. My gut is saying he needs to pick one of these. First. We get through baby steps. Three. And then we pick back up. I just think with his income and what he's doing and where he's going financially, I don't like trying to do both of these at the same time.

Yeah. So here's. This isn't. This isn't etched in stone, but if somebody says, hey, I'm going to grad school. My wife actually started going to grad school because she wanted to be a better teacher. She had no interest in being a professor or research person. She just wanted to be a better school teacher. And her district had a program where they helped pay, so she went to become a better teacher, and she just kept going and they kept supporting her until she ended up getting a PhD. So that's one route. I'm just curious. I want to be surrounded by iron. Sharpens iron. I want to be around smart people learning smart things and debating ideas and writing papers. That's actually a lot of fun for me. But then it becomes a luxury, right? It becomes something that I can do if I can afford it, the same as people may play golf or may go shooting or whatever they do. The second thing is, is this something that's going to pay off? Is there an ends to a mean or means to an end here? So are you just getting a PhD because you're hoping a job is going to show up?

Because I'm telling you, higher Ed's in a state of massive disruption right now. And what I would hate for you to do is to have a PhD on the back end of this that you were hoping would you leverage into something else and it's just a recipe for frustration. Or that you're adjuncting four classes at four different schools for 1750 a class, okay. Or $2,500 a class, and you end up creating a chaotic, exhausting life. The third thing is, don't borrow money for it. Right? And so you're. You're. You're not doing any of those things, but except for hoping that there's a job here on the back end. So I want you to do some more research on the front end. And I'm like, ken, it doesn't feel like there's any pressure any, like, you have to get this done right this second. Is that right?

No, I wouldn't say so.

And let's throw in. Let's throw into this mix that this is all about a house, too, correct?

Yeah, that's all right.

I know, and I love it. But here's. Here's what John and I are getting at. We've got grad school. We've got. That we want to do, and we understand, and you need to do more, by the way. We're not trying to talk you out of it, but.

No, I got two PhDs. I love them. That's what you're doing, right?

But you got to know that you really want to do this and you're okay starting at the 55 or 60 that John is pointing out and then busting your butt for maybe a long time for that 80. So we're trying to be real with you. That's the first thing. But the second, but the most important thing in all of this, of the three things we want to accomplish, baby step three or, excuse me, three b. Did I get that right or is it full baby step three?

I've got about 50,000 saved.

Okay, so you were through baby step three. So now it's saving for the house, correct?

Yes.

Okay. So for me, so I adjust my opinion here a little bit. I was thinking baby step three, we wanted to get that fully funded, but you looks like you're there for me. It's coming down to, I'm sitting down with my wife Stacey and I, and we're going, all right, yes, I'd like to have the PhD. We really want a house. And so we're going to start looking at that situation and we're going to go, which of these things is the more important from a energy and resource situation? Because you were putting energy and your financial resources into the PhD versus all the energy and resources into getting that down payment. And for me, I would be sitting down having that conversation going, which one is the biggest priority? We both got to be on the same page.

Okay.

How's that ringing true to you?

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we're still able to save some money doing some of this stuff. And I was just. Should I still be investing into retirement accounts?

I don't. I don't know. I. If you're taking a two or three year, like, you're going to be in school full time, my goal is that you're going to get out of school completely debt free, and then you're going to be able to start whatever you're doing next. Where this is a little bit hazy is you're opting back into school with not a real clear destination in mind, more of a hope this thing works out. And we're going to kind of look around and see if there's some open positions, kind of ideas. And that's where it makes it a little more hazy. If you told me, hey, I'm going to take three years off, I'm going to go get a PhD in, or I'm going to in physical therapy, and then I'm going to be making this much money when I get out, then I would tell you, yeah, pause everything, get through with that cash. Cash, flow it, and then be ready to rock and roll. But there's a very real possibility that you graduate in three years. You're down $25,000 plus any side jobs you could have done in those years. So it's a net.

Let's say you're down 50 net and you have the exact same job as a youth minister. And neither Ken or I would say you're failing at anything. You're doing a great job. You're in the ministry, you're making 50 grand a year. But nothing has changed in your house financially. And now you're three years behind on retirement.

Also, Hunter, I will say I agree with John's analysis. That was absolutely beautiful. And so I'm going to now vote based on how John set that up, because the audience gets it. I would not stop investing if I was going to pause anything would not be investing. I would pause the PhD program for the reasons that we've discussed. It's still going to be there.

Yeah, it's not going anywhere.

But you and your wife have this shared goal of a house, and that's going to be your greatest investment, my friend. You're not going to be making huge amount of money. I wouldn't pause investing. That's where I'm going to go. I'd say keep investing. Keep saving three b, because you can do both in this situation. And I'd press pause on the PhD program.

I want you to sit with somebody who has some experience who's not way down the road, as someone who just got a job as a tenure track professor and ask them, is this, is this a smart move for me?

So true. Such good advice. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Here to help you win in your money life, your relationship life and your work life. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney is joining me this hour. Let's go back to the phones. By the way, if you want to jump in, it's 888-25-5225 triple 8825-5225 and I like to do this. When I get a chance to host a show, I always love to say thanks to our live studio audience. We got a great group of people from all around the country, and so. Hello. Hello. And you guys are great. If you'd love to come watch the show, you can go to ramsaysolutions.com. you can find the schedule, and we love to come out and say hi a couple times an hour. So thanks to our studio audience, you guys have been great. A particularly good looking group of people today too, John, you know, dare I say, a little bit better looking than the last week's crowd. I don't know. Am I offending people already may have. Don't even know what I'm saying here, but it's fun. Good group of people.

Good. They're beautiful people.

They're beautiful people. All right, let's go to Andrea now in Kansas City. Andrea, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

My husband passed away in March, and I was calling to find out how do I budget and invest the life insurance proceeds to maintain my current lifestyle and give generously? I just really want to be steward of what God and my husband has provided for me. My husband was disabled for, like, the last 19 years, and he committed suicide.

Oh, no.

What was his name?

Chris.

Chris, man, I'm so sorry.

Thank you, march.

That's. That's real, real recent. We're still real raw.

Yeah, most definitely.

Yeah.

We have six kids and ten grandkids. I've been a stay at home mom for 30 years, and I was this caregiver for the last 19 years.

Oh, my.

Okay, I'm gonna. We're gonna do two things here. One, there's a ton of emotional stuff here that's real heavy. And I'm gonna set that aside for a second, for just a few minutes. We're gonna get real clinical, okay? Is that okay?

Yes.

Like, real sterile. And these are the surreal questions that you can't even believe you're asking in the aftermath of something like this. So how are you financially? You, can you get groceries? You're going to lose your house. Where are you?

Oh, I am. Financially, I am fine.

How's that?

We're kind of, we were kind of Dave light the last 15 years, I guess. When he became disabled, we were in a really bad situation. We did like everybody else and had a half a million dollar house and a bunch of cars that weren't paid for and everything. And when he got sick, we were on short term disability, and so we had to pay for cobra insurance and stuff, and we had five kids in the home at the time. We couldn't afford where we were living, so we moved to the midwest. So he's been on Social Security since then. But we were able to pay off our debt during this last 15 years.

Okay. June 15. How will you pay for groceries?

I have life insurance.

How much?

One and a half million.

Okay. What do you owe in your house?

When he died, I owed $1,500.

On the whole house?

On the whole house.

Okay.

It is paid for.

I'm just curious. How old are the kids? The six kids?

The youngest is 19.

Okay.

So your kids are old and out.

Of the house, obviously, with the grandkids. You got several kids that are. That are doing their own life now?

Yeah. The two youngest ones are still in college.

Okay.

Are you carrying that or is there college already paid for?

They are going debt free with scholarships.

Okay.

Okay. So how old are you?

I am 53.

Okay. So you've got plenty of money to live on and invest wisely. You're gonna be okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Are you gonna stay in this home? Are you gonna sell it and move?

I'm going to stay.

Okay. My recommendation is you don't do anything for a minimum of six months. Don't move money, don't sell anything. Just sit tight if you can. You have enough cash to do that in the bank?

Yeah, I did do two cds just to make something.

Okay. You're going to get itchy and feel like you need to go do a thing, especially as a long term caretaker. You lost your husband, you lost your rider. Die, and you lost your purpose. Right?

Yeah.

And so there's going to be a huge vacuum. And this is where scam artists and bitcoin salesmen and move all the money into silver because it's all coming down. This is where they make their money on people like you. Okay.

Yeah.

And if you have to give the keys to the car to one of your. To your oldest kid, your oldest daughter, your oldest son, and say, I need you all to step in for a season because I'm not spending any of this money. I'm not moving any of it. You're gonna get tons of unsolicited advice. You're gonna get his family members coming out of the woodwork for their piece of this 1.5 million. Just commit. I don't do anything for six months. I just grieve. Is that fair?

Yeah.

Okay. You're set up to be okay long term. But, man, you can mess this thing up if you start tinkering with it. Okay. Do you have a smartvestor pro that you can sit with?

Nope.

Okay. We want you to hang on the line. We're gonna hook you up with somebody that's gonna help you manage the entire portfolio here and go from start to finish. Now, here's the emotional side of this thing. I can't help but think with the timing and close to the house paid off and all this was. Has he been playing in this for a while? Was it pretty sudden?

I don't. I don't believe he was planning anything.

Okay. Okay.

He had been taking some medicine last year that kind of changed his mental issues. I don't. You know. I don't know.

Okay. And here's the scary part. In the frustrating and sad and heartbreaking part, you're never gonna know. So here's what I want you to do over the next few weeks. Okay? Have you already had the funeral?

We didn't have a funeral.

Okay. You need to have a funeral, full stop. Some sort of marker for this moment with the kids and everybody. Okay? Okay. And I know you don't want to, and you're probably not going to, but I'm telling you right now, it's an essential cornerstone part of your healing. Okay?

I mean, we all got together and.

Stuff, but why did you not have a funeral?

I just didn't want to. I didn't. I didn't want to have people loving on me and hugging me and telling me they're sorry and. And, you know, having my kids just crying in front of people. I just didn't want to do that.

Okay, well, I want you to know that's a. That's a cornerstone of the healing process. Okay?

Yeah.

And I get it. I totally get it. But in counseling, this is a terrible word, but we call it leakage. Those things will find their way out in your life, and they usually come at real inopportune times. Okay? So having some sort of marker or ceremony or. This was his life. And giving people an opportunity to grieve together and cry together and be sad together and be heartbroken and angry and really mad together, all those things, is a really important thing. The second thing I want you to do, if you haven't already, is have all of your kids. And you. Y'all write him a couple of letters. One letter is how much we loved you and how much. How mad we are. Can't believe that this happened. Then the second letter is dear. Dear dad, dear Chris. I'm gonna miss you so much. And here's who I'm going to become. Okay?

Yeah.

And that's not for today. That's not for this month. That's over the next couple of months. Okay?

Yes.

But if you got it in you, I would circle the kids back up and bring them home. And maybe everybody writes a letter and we're going to do a small little funeral inside of our house. But crying and being together is part of the grieving process. But hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with a smartvestor pro. We could pull apart this $1.5 million. I want to put you in the hands of somebody who's going to walk with your specific situation and get you taken care of. So hang on the line and we'll get you connected with somebody in your area. Sorry if you're lost, sister. Yeah.

We're hurting for you. Thank you. Your better days are coming. I promise. This is the Ramsay show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Doctor John Deloney is joining me this hour. Our scripture today comes from John 812. Jesus said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of the world. Our quote of the day from coach Mike Schesky of the Duke Blue devils. The truth is that many people set rules to keep from making decisions. Ooh. There you go. Hey. The best way to make the most of your money is and always will be creating and sticking to a monthly budget. That's why our every dollar budgeting tool is the best. Helps you plan spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you. It's very easy to use in an app, and it helps you maintain discipline in a busy lifestyle. Download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play today. That's every dollar. You can get it free in the app store or Google Play today.

All right, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, is where we go next. Nick is there. Nick, how can we help?

So, guys, I've got a. I guess it'd be a career question. I'm glad to talk to both of you. It's like the older brothers, the cool guys.

Well, I've never been called cool in my life, so I'll take it. Thank you very much.

Me neither, John.

Okay, whatever. Been in insurance for like a decade and a half and recently started doing tree work. And now all I can think about is doing tree work. So my question is one, financially, it does make I can make more money doing tree work than I do with the insurance gig to. This would be at the loan question. I mean, is this just like a midlife crisis?

Yes, and it doesn't mean it's wrong. Go for it, kid. Maybe not.

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think it's a midlife crisis at all. Uh, it sounds to be like you stumbled into this thing that you may never have realized was actually as nice and as fun and is potentially profitable for you, and it reminds you of being a kid, uh, climbing trees, and you probably were always an outdoorsy kind of guy, and you're going, man, I actually really, really enjoy this, but it requires me to put away my, you know, suit and white collared shirt and ties. And I think you're just looking for permission and you're coming up with an excuse. Are there any signs that it's a midlife crisis?

Marriage is good. Kids are good. Health is good.

So when I was just pontificating, did that. Did that resonate with you?

Well, I'm the jump guy. Like, hey, let's go do this. There's a bridge. Let's go jump off of it.

There's a plane.

Let's go jump out of it.

Yeah. Okay.

The opposite for me to go is this. Is it smart to jump?

Well, wait a second. Is it an opportunity to make more money than you're making in insurance?

Yep.

Okay. Is it more fun for you than sitting in a cubicle or sitting in your office or schlepping insurance all day? What do you love most about it that you didn't think that you would love prior to stepping into this?

Not the. It's every day is a Rubik's cube. So there's a puzzle you've got to solve.

And is there any evidence that as a young man, young Nick was the same kind of puzzle solver?

Somewhat, but not too much.

Mm hmm. Do you like being outdoors?

Yeah.

Okay, doc. I don't hear midlife crisis. I hear a little bit of self discovery. I never saw myself being a guy who cuts down trees when I was thinking about college or whatever as a senior in high school. And I see a little bit of discovery, and I'm wondering, is there a little bit of guilt? What's he questioning here?

I'm wondering if he has spent his whole life doing the safe job and realizes there's a lot of fun and joy and money and laughter to be made outside of that world. Like, and I know for me, the idea I used to scoff at people who worked on commission. I used to be like, what kind of irresponsible morons would do that, right? Until I left the comfort of a secure paycheck. And now I work on commission, and I don't ever want to go back. It's amazing because I get to control. I get to control what happens next, right? And so you're going to have to carry the weight of. There's no trees to cut down. There's no food to eat. Right?

Yeah, there's always trees.

There you go. You just answered it. That's exactly right. And in my world, there's always somebody to help. In Ken's world, there's always somebody who's struggling with a job situation. There's too many jobs out there. I don't know how to. How to change. There's not enough. There's always work out there. And so, man, I think you are.

Has somebody.

Go get them.

Has somebody tilted their head at you or looked at you a little weird when you described this.

This training, all the parents, but you got to go to college. You got to get a good corporate job.

Okay, there's our answer.

That's working out for everybody.

Yeah, well, you called us today, and you're asking, am I in a midlife crisis? What you're really asking is, am I a reckless moron from moving from insurance to the tree business? That's really what you're asking. Because somewhere along the way, either somebody has looked at you a little weird, apparent, or said something before, or maybe even said something about this current transition.

Yes. And no one's going to say it's not high risk. But also, we mitigate as much as we can.

Yeah, but, you know, you could get in a car accident on the way to the insurance office, or I could.

Have a heart attack sitting at the desk as well.

And I. You know, I love you, Nick, because, you know what? If you don't do this, you might very well have a heart attack way early because you're doing something that you do not love. I love the fact that you.

I knew you guys were hosting. I was actually going out to look at a tree to bid on it, and I went, oh, I didn't know those guys hosted the show. I want to call and talk to them. That was a year ago.

Done.

And so here we are, a year later.

Go get it, brother.

Dude, this is a no brainer. There's nothing else for us to discuss, man.

Here's the last thing we have to discuss, Nick. When you get t shirts with your company printed on them. I wear a large, and Ken wears medium. You send them to us. We'll wear them on our respective shows. Okay. We'll give your. Your tree service, Nick's tree cutting service, a shout out.

Guess who has a tree in his front yard? Nick. That I sure could use your services.

I've got one that fell down during the storms last weekend that I would love your services.

My wife won't let me anywhere near a chainsaw, and she's a wise woman.

Oh, my wife lets me go out in the field with one. Not anywhere near the home.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, my gosh. All right, let's go to Rachel in Los Angeles. Rachel, how can we help?

Hi, there. I'm here in California, and I'm struggling pretty hard financially. I've been out of work for about eight years on disability for agoraphobia, panic episodes, and anxiety attacks, and.

I want.

To rise above my circumstances. I need to get back to work, and I'm really excited about getting back, and you guys get me excited and watch you guys, like, almost every day. And so I'm calling to find out, how do I go about, first of all, mentioning that big gap on my resume and having to mention it in an interview?

The. The same way you're going to deal with the agora for agoraphobia and the same way you're going to deal with the other anxieties, which is you run straight through the middle of them, and you say, I've been dealing with personal illness for a long time, and I've been on a long healing journey, and I am back, baby, ready to rock and roll. And you put a job in front of me, there will be nobody who's got more strength and tenacity than I do because I fought the devil himself for the last eight years, and here I am, baby.

Amen.

And if they say, oh, well, you're just not, then, dude, as the great Jay Z says, brush your shoulders off and go to the next one.

Yeah.

Because there's gonna be a company out there really lucky to have you. And by the way, you're still gonna feel anxious, and you now have a set of skills to know. Oh, that alarms going off. I'm going straight towards it. No more running for me. Is that fair?

Yeah.

Rachel, have you been cleared? Have you been cleared by your medical professionals? They say, hey, we believe you can do this. You have the tools. Go after it.

Yes.

Okay.

Absolutely.

This is a huge point. John nailed that. I would go in it with that. Even if you got to have a doctor's note or something. I don't know if that's. I don't think that's out of the abnormal at all, out of the. Out of the norm. But one other thing I would recommend. This is where your relationships, and I mean, acquaintances, people you went to school with, people that you see at church or some civic group or club, this is where you tell everybody that you know. And I mean, like, if they just became your friend three weeks ago on Instagram, but you know them. They know you. I would put the word out with pride to say, I've overcome this. I'm now getting back in the game. And just like John said, you run straight into it. And I tell everybody, hey, I could use some help with some personal recommendations to overcome this gap. And if we can get you a job interview where a friend. Friend recommends you, and they say, let me tell you about Rachel. She's a warrior. She overcame this. She's really talented. This. We want to get into those job interviews with some personal credibility that would also help this.

Rachel, you got this charge. Check it.

Rachel.

This is the Ramsey show.

Hey, guys, I'm Rachel. And I'm George, and you've probably heard our voices before on the Ramsey show. And do we have a surprise for you. Yep, we have our very own show, smart money happy hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and, of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel. Not enough. And yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control, and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you were taking such a stand. And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about. Disney adults. Oh, George, why is it a thing?

Listen.

Some adults still find the magic.

Sure.

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey network app.