Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour. Hi, I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruze show, co host of the smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is your co host. Today, open phones at triple 8825-5225 Andrew in Atlanta starts this hour. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

Hey, Dave. And Rachel. I'm doing very well.

Good. What's up?

So, I've got a very complicated situation. My wife and I are very big fans of yours. We bought a house with 20% down, 15 year fixed rate mortgage, no credit score, following the Ramsey plan, everything. About four weeks ago, we had a septic leak in our yard. It's not a big deal. We're in four or five or six. We've got the emergency fund. Called a company out to come check it out, and as it turns out, it's coming from our neighbor's yard. And long story short, our neighbor is as broke as can possibly be, and essentially, both of her parents passed away in the last year. And she doesn't even have the money to get probate through to get the house into her name, much less fix the septic leak. And so, originally, if it was just a small thing, our church was going to try to help with it, but it's turned into eight to $10,000 because they have to pump all of the septic uphill to a new drain field and everything. So it's going to be a whole big thing, and we're just trying to figure out what to do. And after discussing it with other people, I feel like our plan is to just suggest to her, hey, we'll help you pay to get the will through probate, and then you need to sell the houses.

You can't sell it. Can't get a health letter.

Would she be able to? I mean, the house is falling apart, ever everything. I mean, she'd probably have to sell it for cash to an investor or something. There's.

Yeah, okay. I mean, because they're falling apart. The buyer can't get a mortgage on this if the. If the septic tanks busted, so. Cause they're gonna require a health department letter in any. Any city I'm aware of to do.

She wouldn't be able to get a mortgage even if the septic was fixed?

No, I'm not talking her getting a mortgage. I'm talking about the buyer.

Yeah, the buyer would not be able to get a mortgage on this house.

Even with the cause it's in such bad shape.

It's in very bad shape, yes.

Wow. Have you, do you have any idea what the price to take it through probate is?

I don't. I would expect it to be. I believe she has a. A lawyer, she said was going to do it as a favor, but it's been six months now, and he basically said, because it's a favor, it's got to be like, lowest priority. So I'll do it when I get around to it.

Are they living in it?

Yes, they're living in it.

Where are they going to go?

Well, if they sell the house, they can take that money and rent something. If not, then there's also two years of unpaid property taxes.

Mm hmm.

And the.

You're right. It is in her best interest. Aside from your problem, it's in her best interest to get the house sold because the house needs repairs to be habitable. $8,000 to be habitable, just in the sewer system, septic system alone. And obviously, you know, she's too broke to pay attention, bless her heart, and putting a little money in her pocket and restarting her life in a more hole is best for her. I agree with you. I think that's a good conclusion. Is she up for all of that? It sounds like you've had good discussions with her.

Yeah, no, we're very close. I was able to be with her father when he passed away, and we had a very close relationship with them. She is very emotionally attached to the home and does not want to sell it. But at the same time, she has not worked in ten years and she's unwilling to get a job.

Okay, well, you can't make her sell it.

No, no, we can't, but the county will.

No, they really won't put a lien.

On it if she's back in property taxes.

Well, they may sell it. They may sell it for property taxes. There may be a tax.

To sell it is what Andrew saying. Yeah.

Or codes could condemn it and make her move that. That's how that kind of thing happens, too. So. Well, I mean, if you pay for it to go through probate and then she does nothing, nothing has happened. You just wasted the money, right?

Yes.

So I'm not going to pay for it to go through probate unless I have her agreement in writing that she's going to sell the house, right?

Yes.

Because otherwise you're just throwing good money after bad, and it doesn't solve. It's not going to solve the problem.

And that's the way we saw paying for the septic stuff, even if it was a smaller issue.

It's just enables her to continue to stay in a situation that's not good for her. Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Okay, so with the sell of the home, would they be forced then to fix the septic?

The buyer of the home would probably be an investor that's going to renovate the home, including the septic, in order to put it back on the market and do a flip on it. Would be.

But that's going to take. I mean, that could take, I mean, six months.

Oh, it's gonna take a while.

So do you just have septic running into Andrew's yard? Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's my one. That's my problem. Yeah.

Yeah.

Is regardless of the route, if she does not sell the house immediately to someone, then either we're paying for it or it's just going to keep coming into our yard.

Yeah. Or you're going to create some kind of a bare. A landscaping barrier that direct redirects it back into her yard.

Yeah.

Is it. Is it a lot? Like. Is it.

It's not a lot. It was very bad at first. I think they're just using less water, honestly. But it's coming up from underneath the ground, so it's not, like, flowing into our yard. It's, like, bubbling up in a puddle.

Yeah. Okay. That's pretty gross.

Terrible. Yes, sir, it is terrible.

That's the crappiest call I've gotten today. Oh, man. Bless your heart. I don't know. I mean, I'm going to start investigating some things I can do to just, uh. From a landscaping or grading perspective on your land, to just redirect it back over onto hers. And, um. Um. Because it doesn't sound like this lady's going to follow through. She's, um. Uh. She's going to wait until this all comes down or she's not going to act. She's going to wait till the whole thing comes down around her head. That's what you're describing to me.

Not lose her entire house.

Yeah, but that's not. That's not. We can't control that if we can't make it. Unless you have her committed, unless you have a, you know, have her declared mentally ill and the court takes over her life, that's the only way you can do that. So. And obviously, she's not there. She's just not, you know, she's just in denial. So I think you you know, I'm going to, as her friend, I'm going to continue to recommend that she do that. And, you know, if you're willing to put the house on the market, because, honey, I think that's what's good for you. I'll help you by paying for it to go through probate, but I'm not going to do that if you're just going to sit over there and let the thing rot around your head.

Yeah.

Because I love you too much to participate in your delusion. And I really, I don't want that. I don't. I want what's good for you. And you can act in her best interest and at the same time end up solving your problem. Yes, but I don't think. I think, you know, you can offer to do that. And even if she puts it in writing, I still think you're gonna have trouble because I think this is an emotional person, not illogical. She's not making logical decisions or it'd already be on the market. And so, um. Yeah, and so you're going to have to figure out a way to landscape your yard, reset some stuff to create a puddle on her side of the line, you know? I'm sorry. Wow, what a gross mess. I don't have a good answer for you, but that's you're pursuing this properly and with the right spirit. You're a kind person. Thank you for that. This is the Ramsey show, guys. It's no secret that the real estate market is weird right now. So go with a mortgage company you can trust to have your back. Churchill mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted because they're stable, reliable and focused on you.

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co host. Well, graduation season is here. Graduating from high school, graduating from college, starting our lives. It's a fun, fun season. So we're gonna run a couple of specials to help you out for the graduates. If you need a gift for a graduate, one I'm really excited about is Ken Coleman's new book, which just hit a bestseller list the other day. Find the work you're wired to do the get clear assessment. And built into this book is a code. And you take the get clear assessment, and then the book walks you through what you should be doing, what you should be thinking about, where you, you know, what your bent is. And the Bible says, train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he'll not depart from it. And the old King James says, tramp a child in the way he is bent, and get clear assessment helps you figure out the way we're all bent in one direction or another. And that's a good. That's a good word right there. So you can check that out. The ultimate millennial and Gen Z guide to all things Ramsay is George Camel's breaking free from broken, full of snark, and full of great research.

This thing is an amazing book. Also a bestseller. Number one bestseller. And a great millennial gift. A great Gen Z gift, because written by one for one and all that kind of stuff. And, of course, we've just launched the 20th anniversary version of the total money makeover. Over 10 million of these sold now. And so any one of those three, or all of those three, will make a great graduation package. Angela is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Angela. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure, sure. What's up?

So I'm having a bit of some marital disagreements. I'm hoping you can give me some clarity or at least how to approach it with my husband. We've been married for eight years. I've been a stay at home mom for two, and he makes about 250,000 a year and refuses to give me access to the finances, pretty much. I am not on his account. He does give me x amount of money each month to pay the bills. It doesn't even really cover the bill amount, to be honest with you. And I'm always left with $0 to my name. So I just wanted to. To talk to you about this and get some feedback from you.

Dang, Angela, why. Why won't he put you on the account? What does he say?

Um, to be honest with you, I think it's maybe fear of giving that control up. Um, when we got married, he was already. You know, he was very established. He's twelve years older than I am. He's always been on his own. So I think he's having a really hard time relinquishing that eight years later. I know, I know.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's where the difficulty comes in. Yeah. I mean, it would be I mean, to a degree, Angela, I'm like. I mean, it's a. It's a level of. Of this. The splitting of finances to the point that you don't have access. I mean, that. That borders line financial abuse, that you don't have the ability to access money that is coming into your household regardless of who makes it or not. The idea that. That he's withholding, that, that's a. That's a big red flag to me. Are there other areas of your marriage that you. That you feel this control, or is it mostly to the money?

Honestly, it's just the money. Everything else, you know, feels great. Um, and, of course, I can ask him for $20 or $50, but he.

Wants that, not his daughter.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

This is bothering you because it's wrong.

Yes.

And so let me just confirm for you. This is wrong. And it's what you're describing to me is it sounds to me like it's a whole lot more toxic and bad than you actually think it is. You've kind of normalized this, and you're trying to just kind of. Well, it's not. But it's just like. I can't get him. No, I mean, this is, like, weird, okay? This is strange. It's. It's at that level, and so. And it's wrong. Uh, relationally, it's a. It's a disaster. So I don't know. I can't judge, you know, not talking to him. I can't. I can, but I might be wrong. What is the root of this for him? But I really, honestly don't care either. Um, if you were my little sister or my daughter and you told me this was going on, I would say this is not a financial problem. You have a very serious marriage problem, okay? You have an older guy that is. You married a man older than you that thinks he's your dad, or he thinks he does not have any. He does not have to involve you. So, I mean, you're just to do what you're told.

Okay?

And I just. Boy, it just sounds really icky. So I think you guys. I think you guys need to sit down with a marriage counselor desperately.

Okay? Um, I have. I have tried that route, and he wouldn't go. I still.

No kidding.

A little bit.

Of course you wouldn't go. You need to go.

Yeah.

And the marriage counselor needs to explain to you how icky this is and how you can start having conversations, that he either comes to the table or you're leaving, because this is not healthy. Honey, this is ugly. And I am not telling you to leave, but I am telling you to get some people in your life to walk alongside you so you don't continue to tolerate this. Eight years is too long.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah. You've. You've put up with it so long, it starts to kind of feel normal to you. And Rachel and I both, like, we. We about flipped out when you told us this. Right. So we're. We're trying to. We're trying to temper and be nice.

Yeah. Because, I mean, you know, there's degrees of all of this, Angela. We get this call. A lot of how do I get my spouse on board? And there's everything from. How do I get him on board with the intensity of which we're doing baby step two, but. We're doing baby step two, but I want to, you know, do more than he does, or how do I get.

It where we control.

That's what I'm saying. Is that the checking account, like, we have separate checking accounts. I don't know if we want to do one. You know, whatever. Whatever this is. Like, this is on the extreme scale of it, that you don't have access to your money to run your household, and your husband is holding the keys. And so there's probably a level, too, Angela, that of. And I think Dave's right. I think going to. If he won't go to marriage counseling with you, then you need to find a counselor or a therapist and start walking through. Because there's a level of strength, Angela, that you may have been giving up over the last eight years due to codependency, due to, you know, really being kind of warped into what is normal. And this is just, you know, your normalcy. And so to have this level of. And it's scary, because you're gonna start to learn some new tools and new realizations of what's really going on. And it's gonna give you the strength, though, to speak up. And I pray. Pray that with that, and through that, he comes to the table and starts to do work and understands all of that.

Right. And you guys can move. I hope he loves you more than he loves control, but I'm not sure right now.

Okay. Yeah, it feels that way.

Do you guys have kids? Angela, you've been home for two years. You have three. Okay. Okay.

Wow.

What did you do when you met? When you. You said, I've been home for two years. What were you doing before that? When you were working and making an income? Where was that money going?

Well, I worked for a municipality. And, you know, we. I tried to get him to combine finances then when I was bringing in money, but he wasn't interested. So, you know, I just kept it. Kept it to myself, you know, in my account. But since we've been married, I have tried to get him to combine finances. We did go to FPU together. That was one of my things I wanted us to do upfront. I think it helped for about a year. But he never. He never wanted to actually make that step and combine our account down to our account.

Well, and more than that, he's still doling out money to you.

Yeah.

For $20. It sounds like you're 16 years old and you're asking your dad for money.

Yes.

That's the way that. That's the way that sentence structure came out. And that's what. That's, you know how I got to tell you, man, somebody that, a guy that can go through financial peace university and see that whole scope of information, viewing it from an emotional, spiritual, mathematical process, and then go back to doing what he's doing. There's something going on here. There's something going on. Okay.

So sorry, Angela.

Yeah. This is really.

I know.

Bad. I'm sorry, darling. Yeah. I. Don't be some doomsayer, and I want to add drama, but I want to add enough drama that you do something about it.

Yeah.

Don't stay in this situation. Do something to cause the situation to change, like see a therapist and let them walk you through some, you know, some structures of what you can do to get. Get some help in this relationship. Oh, my gosh. This is the Ramsey show.

This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, it's doctor John Deloney. One of the most common questions I get is how to get something off your chest, maybe something that happened to you, something somebody said to you or something you've done that you're worried about, because bringing it to light will disrupt your entire life. Getting things off your chest is important, but it's hard to know where to start. Therapy can be a safe, effective place to get things off your chest, to learn how to say hard things out loud, and to figure out how to work through whatever is weighing you down. I've been blessed to have a great therapist who helps me get those heavy things off my chest. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. It's flexible because it's online, so you can suit it to fit your schedule. You just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Get things off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H dash e dash p.com deloney.

Rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality number one best selling author. And my daughter is my co host. Today's question comes from Lindsey in Illinois.

She says, my husband and I are in our late thirties, and we have two teenage daughters. He wants to quit his job and open a restaurant, which has been his lifelong dream. He has done no research and has not created a business plan. His idea is for us to sell our fully paid for home. Oh, no. Of about half a million dollars and live in an apartment. Oh, no. So he can purchase a restaurant. Oh, no. Oh, jeez. I don't even know if I came through this. In the meantime, he wants me to keep my job so we'll have one steady income of $85,000 a year. I could see putting all of our money into this venture and end up losing everything. How do I convince her it's a bad idea? Oh, no, Lindsey. Yeah. Well, kind of like our last caller. To a degree. You have a vote, too. This is your life as well. And.

And you're on the deed of that house, so don't sign it.

Hmm. Good point.

There you go. Period.

Yep.

Yeah.

And again, it's not because you're.

Here's the thing. No, no, no.

It's a.

His process. His process is completely ignorant. It's absolutely ludicrous to open a business this way. She's exactly right. Number one, you need a business plan. Number two, you would need some experience in the freaking restaurant business, which is hard. Before you do that, number three, you need to understand that you're taking on the category of small business that has the highest rate of failure of all small businesses. The number one way to go broke is open a restaurant. It's, like, freaking guaranteed. Okay, just ask lobster. They just filed bankruptcy. Okay. I mean, too many shrimp. And so that's a big chain, though, but. Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying it was a different. It's a different thing. But the restaurant business is just. It's hard.

Yes, it is.

It's hard. It's a tough business. The average employee turnover ratio in a restaurant is 300% a year. You lose all your people three times a year. That's a lot of hiring. That's a lot of drama. That's a lot of stuff to put up with. And no, no. No and no. Now, is there a way for him to live his dream without it destroying his own family and himself in the process? Yeah, sure there is. Sure there is. You do a business plan. You go to work in a restaurant. You learn the restaurant business. You work in leadership in a restaurant, management in a restaurant. You understand purchasing in a restaurant. You. Then you redo your business plan, because now you're going to be smart. And then you start a catering business on the side, and you grow your catering business so big that you buy a food truck. And then when the food truck makes you so stinking much money from catering and food trucking that you pay cash for all this without selling your home and without quitting your job, you did it all on the side, and you just work your tail end off.

And three, four years from now, you'll have the money to open your first bricks and mortar little restaurant with cash, and then you'll actually know what you're doing. But I got to tell you, man, we coach. We coach small businesses. I got 10,000 small businesses that we coach through entre leadership. I do a podcast called Entre Leadership.com, or called Entre Leadership podcast, rather, it's at entreleadership.com dot. It's one of the top rated podcasts on leadership and business. And if you. If he called me up on the air and asked me about this, I wouldn't be as nice to him as you have been, Lindsey, for his own sake.

Well, you would say what you just said. There's a way to get there. What's your taker if it's your dream job? But just to do everything. Like, right now, I mean, I was thinking even our cafe downstairs here at Ramsey Solutions where our team members eat, right? There's all these stations, and, like. And it's a mini restaurant. I mean, there's all of it.

Some major risk, yes. But I'm just saying, like, a thousand people a day.

Yes. So even. Even that type of thing, I'm like, I know the amount of work and the amount of research and the amount of companies you hire and the food. I mean, like, it was a whole feat just for that one portion of justice. And it's not even like, this is what's maintaining our life. You don't mean your livelihood.

I got a better idea, Lindsey. Sell your house and pile $500,000 in the middle of the interstate and burn it, because that's about what you're getting ready to do. It's the same net result. At least then you'll have some entertainment watching the traffic swerve and not as much work, you know? Yeah. And it'll save you a lot of heart. No, this is. This is. You're right, Lindsey. Now, how do you convince him? I don't know.

Well, you take it slow, and it's.

Just saying there is a way to do this that is wise. And his. His net goal is not unwise. His process is completely ludicrous. His way to get there is completely ludicrous. So, Rachel, one of the things that. The reason I get so passionate about this kind of stuff is I actually did this to your mother.

Opened a restaurant.

No. Before you were born. So I started buying and selling real estate. When we first got married, I was 22 years old, and I was a freaking genius. And nobody could tell me anything. And my wife said, oh, I don't know if this is going to work or not. It doesn't matter. I got it figured out. I got the finance degree. You got a home ec degree. Shut up. I'm doing this. And I just went and did it. And I started by. We have owned a lot of real estate my wife has never even seen. And you know what happened? I went broke. I lost everything. We were out to dinner the other night going in downtown Nashville, and I thought, hey, I'm gonna turn up the street. See that house right there? I did the renovation on that house. She goes, we owned that house. And I said, yeah, I guess. I guess I owned it. But you didn't, cuz since you didn't know about it. But, yeah, I mean, I wasn't hiding anything from her. I was just too freaking arrogant to take her input. And, cuz I was a smart.

All the cards on the table, smartest.

Car, all the poker chips on one hand. I bet everything on one horse.

Yeah.

And I was, too. I was the guy that was so freaking smart, and I had all this figured out, and don't you question me. And. And then she pulled it. She just like, whatever you want to do, honey. Which is southern for you're an idiot. And so.

And you're not listening to me.

Yeah, you're not listening to me anyway, so whatever you want to do, honey. So when I went broke, I learned not only did I get go broke, I got broken. And I got to trade out some of my arrogance for some humility. And I started reading biblical principles, what the Bible says on how to build wealth and how to handle money. And I got to proverbs 31, because there's 31 proverbs. And if you read one a day. You'll get really wise, and then you can read them all the next month again, and eventually you'll start to understand them. But I got to proverbs 31. Who can find. And this is for our last caller, too. Who can find a virtuous wife? For her, worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. Now here comes the punchline. And he will have no lack of gain. Hmm. So, husbands, assuming you're not married to a spoiled brat princess, assuming your spouse is not confused and thinks she's the Holy Spirit, assuming your wife is virtuous, if you listen to her and consider her input in your dealings, you will have no lack of gain.

You know why you're why I'm sitting in a building worth $600 million that I paid cash for? Because I drove up on this land in my four wheel drive pickup when it was out here, and it was a bunch of cows running around on it. And my wife said, this is where we need to have a campus for Ramsey. And I went, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I agree. It's why I brought you down here. And she's like, yes, yes, we need to do this. And guess what? We did it. So. And guess what?

Some of the best, you know, some.

Of the stupidest business deals I've ever done, I didn't do because my wife had a bad feeling, and I walk away from them if she has a bad feeling, because I don't want a lack of gain. I don't ever want to go back to being the idiot that I was in my twenties. And not everybody in their twenties is an idiot, but I was an idiot. I completely ran roughshod over this principle. Who can find a virtuous wife? For her, worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And when I started trusting her boys and girls, I've had no lack of gain. Now, sometimes she's wrong, but I still trust her, and I've had no lack of gain. And you guys out there who are not listening to a virtuous wife, you're having a lack of gain because you're being stupid. Stop it. This is the Rams show.

Amen, brother Dave.

Amen. This is the Ramsay show. We all need health insurance, but how do you choose? Benefits vary a lot, and the cost can be surprising. Health Trust Financial is the only company Ramsey recommends to find you the right health insurance at the best possible price. Health Trust financial is reliable, which is why I've trusted them for over 20 years. They work for you, not the insurance company, visit health trustfinancial.com today. Healthtrustfinancial.com. rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality, is my co host today. Elizabeth is in San Diego. Hi, Elizabeth, how are you? Hi, Dave.

Hi, Rachel. It's an honor to speak with you, too.

You too. What's up?

My family of four and my in laws are in the beginning planning phase of moving out of state to buy land and put a few homes on it for us. I am looking for information on the legal structure of a multi generational property homestead.

Hmm. How many, how many families will be living on it, you guys, my in laws and then.

Yeah, and then us. We are for my kids are also special needs and I don't know what their independence is going to look like as they're adults. So we might put a few homes on them on there for them, too.

Okay. But the homes that will be built will just be yours and the in laws for right now.

Yeah.

Okay. Okay.

Very difficult. It's very difficult to. Because the problem is that this only works if it works. When something doesn't work here, you fall prey to the same thing a small business general partnership falls prey to. And we tell folks not to go into small business partnerships because the only ship that won't sails a partnership. So. And here's why. It only works if it works, and it never works exactly the way you think it's going to. That's the way life is. Right. So. And in business, I'll just kind of outline there. And it doesn't apply here to you guys completely. But here's what I go to there, because you have to kind of anticipate, you have to do the same exercise I'm getting ready to show you. I teach business people, okay? Like two guys wanting to open up a small business together. This is what I teach them. Number one, I tell them, don't do it because it's very difficult. Number two, if you're going to do it, you have to have a detailed general partnership agreement. Now, you wouldn't necessarily do that, but the general partnership agreement would address the things you've got to address all the possible negative things that show up in life.

Okay? And a lot, we call them the D's because a lot of them are D's. Death, disability, disinterest. I don't like living in the boonies anymore. I'm going back to the city. Right. Drugs. Drugs. Drugs. Drug use.

Yeah, that was the t word. I thought.

That's probably not you. Right. But I'm guessing there's no cocaine problem in this situation, but I'm amazed at the people that do manage to snort their life away. So it always is shocking to me who it is, because I was like, you're kidding. You and divorce, disinterest, default. I don't do my part. So I had dinner 20 years ago, the first time I ever experienced this. It was a family at dinner, and they sat at dinner. It was really embarrassing. We were in Cancun at a leadership thing I was doing, and they yelled at each other, these grown people, and it was three brothers and sisters and their spouses, and they called each other names, and they didn't like each other. And they were the third generation of a homestead of thou, of tens of thousands of acres in New Mexico. And they. The reason they didn't like each other is they thought the other one had screwed the other one, and the other one didn't do their part, and the other one didn't pay the bills, so the other. So the other two had to pay the bills because the first one didn't pay their bills, otherwise they'd lose the land.

And it just was. It was nasty, and it was the unintended consequence of a homesteader, a real home. I mean, an original homesteader. I got. These are real homesteads you're talking about, but I'm talking about the original homesteaders that went and got thousands and tens of thousands of acres put together. And so it was. It was a bizarre thing. So that's what you've got to try to ward off. The only way you can keep that kind of thing from happening is to anticipate that it might and set in place structures and processes to keep it from happening. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. Yeah. I'm getting this information now because I wanted to have a meeting with them, and I. Yeah.

So, incredible amounts of communication. But also, what is our strategy if someone dies? Any look around the table, any one of us dies. Okay. And so, like, this is your husband's family?

Yes, sir.

Okay, so your husband dies. Now, you're the daughter in law, right. Where does this leave you?

And you meet somebody later on in life? Do they want to move next to the in laws of the first. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's like you. So I think.

I mean, it happened.

Is there a clean way to do it? If, say, the in laws purchase the lands they sparse off?

I actually would just buy the piece of land, and then I would subdivide it.

Yeah, I was gonna say subdivide it.

If you want to buy 100 acres and get 50 on each side and run a lot line down the middle of it and have two parcels. You own one parcel, they own the other parcel. We're connected. We're right there. We're having the same life experience we're trying to have, but in the event of a problem, you can sell yours.

That was actually an option that I was thinking about, so I'm glad you brought that up.

Yeah.

I really would try to get you to go that direction. It's not as sweet and communal as the whole idea of, oh, we're going to have a family compound, but it's just very difficult to pull this off, and it's going to require an amazing amount of. Y'all are going to burn a lot of calories heading off.

And I would say this. If it works, and you guys do have a great relationship and you want to do this, and it's a really great. You know what I mean? And you're all on good terms. You want to live that close to them. I mean, all of it. It could be a really cool thing.

Right?

Like, if it works, but how.

Have a plan when the season. When the season ends. When it's done.

Yeah.

Have a plan for how we're gonna do this and everybody's not pissed.

Yep.

Yeah.

Because that's the problem. Because it will change. Life will change, and. And nothing works out exactly like you think it's going to ever. Sometimes it's better than you think it's going to. Sometimes it's worse, but it never is exactly like you think it's going to.

Well, and being tied down, what always kind of gives me a little bit of claustrophobicness, emotionally, is when you feel like you don't have options in life and you're tied down, and especially to your home, and you have a family. Right? She has special needs children. I'm like, there's a lot on your plate. There's a lot going on. And when you feel obligated, if there's a sense of obligation five years down the road, that we don't have the option to move because it's our in laws right here. And they'd be pissed if someone else lived in this house. Cause we had this whole deal. So now we're stuck. Like, that stuck feeling is what you don't want. You want lots of freedom and choices if or when something changes.

Honestly, we got 250 acres just over the hill over here. That's beautiful. And we easily could do this, but there's not a chance the Ramseys will do it.

I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna live in a parcel next to me.

I'm just telling you, there's no chance.

We love y'all.

I know, but you need your distance. It's just good.

We sit down, and you need your.

In front of each other once a.

Week for 3 hours.

If you want to tear up the backyard and put in a pool, I'm gonna judge you at a larger distance.

I know they're not pool people. Like, you're putting in a pool. I was like, okay. Majority of people, this is a goal for them. Pools are great.

Yeah. It's for kids. It's wonderful. Have fun. And so. Yeah, but it's, you know, that's the thing.

That's what I would hear. Just a pool. Regular pool.

He's like, this is how we live at our place. So it's not gonna. It's not gonna work if we're all in one pile. It's just not gonna work. So. But you guys. You guys are sweet people. Y'all probably might be able to. Yeah, they might. Elizabeth's family might be able to do this.

Yeah.

I mean, the rams, the Ramsey's. We would be.

There was a family, and I can't remember their names, but they lived off of. Sorry. This is probably just family chat right now. Down. Was it, like, Wilson. There was a road in Nashville that would go out to the lake, and they lived, and you would, like, turn right, and they had, like, a big sign. And I think, like, the grandfather lived there. The older son. Do you remember I'm talking about.

I have no idea.

And we went. They. I think they were old church people, friends. And we went, and there was. Well, I mean, literally this. I think there were three homes. The grandfather lived in one home, and you kind of kept driving. And there was the sun driver.

It's not an evil thing. It just has no, you know, everyone enters this with Rose colored glasses, and I just want to crunch the glasses.

Under the beauty in and let you.

Know what you're walking into. And if you walk in. Into it with your eyes open, you got a chance of it working. That's the whole thing. And it can. And you can come out and everybody still be happy and friends because the intergenerational.

You think about farming. You think about, you know, how people lived life 100 years ago. That's what it was.

But they also were grandparents. They were obligated, and they were stuck.

Yep. That's fair.

They felt obligated. To tradition. I can't get rid of this land. It's been in the family four generations. I don't really have any options. I actually want to go live in the city and be an engineer, but I guess I'm a farmer, so, you know, it's stuck.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what it is. You know? And if you want to be a farmer, that's okay. But if you're stuck, it's not okay. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing, amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one, bestselling author multiple times over. And my co host, my daughter is. My co host, Gina, is with us to start this hour in Phoenix. Hi, Gina. How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I am in a situation where both my husband and I have our own businesses, and that has changed from him having a salaried position just over the last month or so, and I'm wondering how we can make it work with our two businesses without us having to supplement our income. So to kind of hit the ground running and not fall backwards financially.

Okay. So he did not have enough income coming from his business to justify quitting. And that's. And.

But he quit anyway, so, no, he got laid off. And so we still have some, you know, layoff money coming in. That's going to help. Yeah.

So what is this? What is his small business?

So his is a freight brokerage.

Okay. And how much money is he made doing freight brokerage?

Well, he was in the industry several years ago.

No, no, no. I'm talking about the business right now. How much money is he making?

He's only making about two grand a month.

Okay. What was he making at his job? He got laid off from.

About six a month.

Okay. How fast is he going to get the freight?

From two to six, hopefully within the next three to four months.

Realistically or hopefully?

Well, that's definitely hopeful. Realistically, within the year? I think it's realistic.

Okay. And what are you making on your small business?

Oh, very little. I haven't had to be in a position where I had to make much. So only about 500 a month.

Okay. All right.

What do you do? What's your business, Gina?

I'm a health and nutrition coach, and it's virtual.

Okay, cool.

Okay. Can you gear that up?

I can I'm, I'm not quite sure how.

Okay. You have the, you have the bandwidth to do it, but you don't know if you can actually get enough clients to pay you.

Exactly.

Gotcha. Okay. All right, cool.

What's your, what you got for your budget every month?

What's it take way. What's it, what's it take to operate your house?

It takes about five grand. Bare bones.

Okay. And so if he makes two and you make 500, you're 2500 short.

Right. So we really need to kick it into high gear.

Amen. Okay. All right. Now I'm caught up with your concern, and it's a valid concern. And you didn't do something stupid like quit your job before you should have or something. That's good. This is good. It just happened. And now here we are. How much severance is left?

I think we have about two or three months left.

15,000.

Well, so he's getting, he's getting a payout monthly and then at the end he's getting like his PTO and everything. And I don't have the exact numbers on that, but I think we figured it would get us about four months.

After he was, he was making 6000 women. He's getting. And he's getting, he's continuing to get $6,000 a month?

Yes.

For how much longer?

Just, that is about two months. And then he gets the full severance once that's done.

How much is that?

That's what? You don't know yet?

Yeah, I don't know.

Okay.

Okay. So what I'm going to do is, so if I've got six and you got 500 and he's got 2000, that's 8500. It takes five to operate, you can bank 3500.

Right.

Okay. So I'm going to, I'm going to live on beans and rice, emergency, do nothing, spend nothing, pile up cash to ensure that the curve on his income coming up on the freight business doesn't last longer than your pile of cash.

Right. Which we do have a pretty decent pile of cash that would take us potentially through a whole twelve months if we absolutely needed it. But obviously we don't want to do that.

But that's like an emergency fund. That's not your retirement accounts or something, right? Correct.

Yeah, it's all liquid cash.

Very good. That's very good.

Yeah. And I would consider this, I mean, to a degree, an emergency. You lose a job, a job loss. Is that so for the, if he's not seeing anything, start to really progress in his job, I would say, by summer into summer, come August, if nothing has happened, then that's where I'm like, okay, the severance is. Or like, the payout is ending all of this. We haven't touched the emergency fund yet. We've been able to bank some money. Are we seeing any indication? Because you guys have some good cushion.

Yeah. You need financially, in order for him to stay on the freight small business path, he needs to go from two to three to four to five to six.

Right.

By the month. And if it's not happening or happening faster than that, then you have a valid concern that you're going to burn your cash.

Right.

And that the. Matt, you're doing the math, right. You're thinking about this correctly and so, and what you've got to do with anybody who wants to start a small business, particularly somebody got burned by corporate America and laid off and then wants to start a small business and stick it to the man, which I love that, by the way. Go do that. Okay. Go. The best, the best. The best revenge is success. Okay, so go do that. But the but, but don't live in denial. Right? And I'm talking to him right now, actually. Yeah, because you're not, you got your feet solid on the ground. But if he's all entrepreneurial and, you know, hurt over the way he was treated, I'll never go back into that. I don't blame him for those feelings, but that can't mask out the reality of his business. Didn't get going, so he's got to get this business going.

He's ready to go, okay.

He's got to get it going. I need it to go from two next month. I need it to be three next month. I need it to be four. If you do that, with the math you gave me, you'll never even touch the emergency fund. That's the hope, the severance? Well, no, it's not the hope. It's. It's neat. It's what needs to happen. The severance will have funded the startup, right? That's what it amounts to. If you go from two this month to three next month. Ain't got nothing else to do. Go get some money, boy. Go get some business. That's your thing, man. Leave the cave. Kill something, drag it home. What else are you gonna be doing? Watching Netflix? I mean, go get it. Get it, man. This is what we do. A little desperation is good for a smart, for a startup. And I don't want this, this cash pile over here to make it okay to slumber along. I'm not accusing him of that. But you can tell I've coached a whole lot of small business guys, and I love guys that are like your husband. I love right where he is.

He really has all the DNA and ingredients, the chemistry of what you're describing to me. He could be running a $50 million business someday, and it could have been born out of being pissed off with the way he was treated over there. And it took off. And then he went and learned something and he killed it and drug it home. I think he's in a really cool place, but he can't stay here.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay. Two, three, four, or reconsider. Five, six, seven, or reconsider. You follow me?

Okay.

That math works. With what you gave me, you got plenty of cash to do that. And you're not going to have to go to work and freak out. You can go build your business, too. It won't hurt. Might as well. It's a good reason for you to go build it. You've been wanting to do it. You've been wanting to help people with this nutrition issue. Go help them and they'll give you certificates of appreciation with presidents faces on them. This is the Ramsey show. I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is that people have started buying life insurance to protect their families at levels not seen since the 1980s. The bad news is many of them are still buying crappy cash value type plans. I don't care what you call them. Whole life universal variable adjustable, flexible. They're nothing but a waste of your money. Don't be confused and let someone sell you a plan that sounds better than it really is. Look, term life is the only way to go. Rates are back to all time lows, and the process to apply is easier than ever. With many companies no longer requiring exams, you need to protect your family and use your money for much smarter things than investing in a ripoff cash value insurance policy.

Go to zander.com or call 803 564282 and just compare pricing. You'll see why. These are the only plans I recommend. Take care of your family and do it in a smarter way. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co host today. One thing the Ramseys all enjoy, and certainly Rachel's husband, Winston, and I enjoy, is real estate. And we love the real estate market. I like building things and buying things as part of my almost if I had a side gig, I guess that's what it would be. I've had something under construction for about six or seven years now, next week I will finish a project and it'll be the first time. I haven't had a construction project going in seven years in a long time. Yeah.

You like it?

I'm overdue. I need to find something, something to stick in the dirt somewhere. But the real estate is fun and it's pretty confusing out there right now. When you're thinking about buying a home, it's hard to say that there's a lot of emotion around it.

It's hard, yeah. Price, I mean, interest rates not only are up, but houses themselves, like, what you're buying, you know, the price of a house versus what it was ten years ago, five years ago.

You're just like three years ago, two years ago.

So it's just, it can. It can feel like one of the most defeating subjects, I think, financially right now for people where they think, oh, my gosh, I don't know if I'll ever own a home. Right. Like this kind of negative mindset because of how hard the numbers are. It's real.

When you adjust and you adjust your income and you adjust where you choose to live in order that you can get your income in a place in ratio to the house price in the area you're choosing now to live in order to buy a house, then you put yourself in a position to do that and it can still be done. And we still have people on here in their twenties that have bought homes and paid them off. We have people on 26 years old that a debt free scream, house and everything the other day. So it still is being done. But it's a very. I think it's as much. It is mathematically tough right now. It is economically tough, but I think more than those two, it's just psychologically tough right now because there's just this perception, this dark cloud over the subject of buying a house right now, and houses are selling and houses have not gone down in value. There's still a shortage of housing.

They've not gone down.

They've gone up in value. Well, I mean, there was a time, what, 18 months ago, there's a bubble. They said they were going to crash.

Yes.

You just. I'm just going to wait till house prices come down. They're not going to come down. We told you and they haven't come down. Yes, they've gone up. We told you this. We've told you and told you and told you and told you. So here's some good rules of thumb. If you're buying a house, don't buy a house. And we've said this for 30 years. This hasn't changed. And it'll help you get the house, by the way, until you get out of debt. Don't buy a house where you have to buy an extra bedroom for Sallie Mae because you had a student loan so long you think it's a pet. You know, you're sitting there with stinking car payments around your neck, a bass boat payment, and paying for last week, last year's Disney vacation on your credit card, and you're still. And you can't figure out why you can't afford a house. Well, I just told you why you can't afford a house.

You don't have to go after Disney.

You're stinking over spending. Well, I can go after Ford, but I can't go after Disney. What's wrong? It's, um. Okay, go anywhere you want to go, but you're spending money. You don't have to do crap you don't need to be doing, and you go in debt to do it. And then you're broke and you can't figure out why you can't buy a house. So first thing you got to do is clean up the debt. You get out of debt, and you build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. No time in 35 years that I have said that formula. Did anybody like it? 100% of the decades that I've been doing this show, people went, well, that's not very realistic. No, but it's smart, because if you move in a house without an emergency fund, your hot water heater will go out that week, and the next week, the roof will leak. You're going to learn about homeownership, baby Murphy. If it can go wrong, it will. Will come visit you. And if you want to, if you want to do it really right, I'd love to see you put down 20%.

Now, first time homebuyers, that's very difficult. A lot of first time home buyers. Listen to Ramsey. We don't yell at you for putting down five or 10%, but here's the reason we say put down 20, because you avoid PMI. Private mortgage insurance is insurance that pays the bank in the event they have to foreclose on you and they lose money. It's foreclosure insurance, is what it is. And it's not for you. It's for them, but you have to pay for for it. And it's a. It's about $75 per hundred thousand per month. So we're talking like, you know, $225 a month for a $300,000 loan just for the PMI because you don't put down 20%. So that, that's a big deal now. So that, that's why we tell you do that. Now we understand some of you are going to pay PMI. But I'm just telling you, you can't just automatically sign up for something that expensive and not know what you're doing because it benefits you. Zero. It's for the bank. You are paying for the bank's insurance policy to cover them in the event you get foreclosed on. Then figure out 25% of your take home pay and never have a payment more than a fourth of your take home pay on a 15 year fixed rate mortgage.

Not adjustable rate, not a balloon. Have y'all noticed rates are going up? Why would you sign up for a rate that goes up? That's what your adjustments going to be. That's just dumb. Don't do that. Well, they might go down. Yeah, they might go down. Then you can refinance. So you date the rate and marry the house. Get the right house. And if the rate goes down, refinance. There's your adjustment. But don't let the bank pass on the risk of higher interest rates to you with an adjustable rate mortgage so you can get a cheaper rate, so you can get screwed later. You're kicking the can down the road. You're going to get your face kicked in. Don't do it. Don't do it. This is straight, guys. I'm just telling you, I want the house to be a blessing, not a curse. And I meet too many people that their home is a curse. All because they said in the name of. It's always smart to buy real estate. No, it's not. When you are broke in debt, don't have an emergency fund and sign up for a mortgage payment you can't afford, that is not smart real estate.

That's going to slow down your wealth building, bring anxiety to your home, stress to your relationships. It just takes all the bad stuff out. I mean, it brings all the bad stuff in.

Yeah. And I think that this part of the formula is where people feel like, oh my gosh. Like as they run out their income of 70,000 or whatever it may be, their, you know, their household income. But the truth is, even though incomes, you know, because wages have not kept up necessarily. Right, they haven't kept up. So that means getting into the market, it's going to look different than it did three years ago, to our point earlier. And so there is a part of that that sucks. And I think, you know, we have felt that feeling with inflation, like, there's things that happen that we can't, we don't have control over. But this. But doing this, it allows you for your, especially this 25%.

But here's the, here's an accurate appraisal of that. Okay. Wages have not gone up as fast as prices and interest rates, which means you can probably no longer afford the home that you can, that we live in right now.

That's how, I mean, like, you can.

Probably no longer afford the home that. Well, that's just interest rate only there.

Yeah.

Okay. That's not price. But the. But you can probably no longer afford the home you thought you were going to get.

Yes, I think that's it.

And it's probably not moving in that neighborhood. You're probably moving in a different neighborhood, or you're moving a little bit further out of town, or you're going to compromise somewhere else in order to become a homeowner later. It's not like you. It's not. None of this is forever.

Yeah. Right.

You can move again later when your income comes up and you make some equity on the purchase of the home.

Yep.

And. And because, boys and girls, you never have a forever home. The only forever is. The only forever home is heaven. That's it. That's your only forever home. Because as soon as you build your forever home, as soon as you build your dream home, your dreams will change. You build your forever home, your kids are gonna grow up and leave. If you're a good parent, they're gonna leave. And so then you've got this big old house, and there you go. So, okay, it all you need. You need to make sure you're on top of your closing costs. You need to factor in other home insurance, ownership costs. People act like you don't have. You have extra costs when you own that you don't have when you rent, maintenance, utilities, all this. And we always tell you to do a Fannie Mae, a conventional mortgage. FHA and VA are more expensive mortgages in fees and in interest rates than a Fannie Mae, the conventional mortgage. So do a conventional mortgage. And if you're gonna get. So if you're gonna get into this real estate market and now is a really good time, actually, to get in.

Yeah. If you're in this position to do it, do it, do it. Yeah. And use one of our roast Ramsay trusted pros, real estate agents to help you with that. So we'll put some link in the show notes for you guys to check that out. Or if you're listening, ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. But have somebody in your corner in this, because, again, if you are in this position to do it, get in now. Get in now.

There it is. This is the Ramsey show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Mark and Angie are on the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey solutions. Hey, guys. How are you doing?

Great, Dave. How about yourselves?

Honored to have you guys. Where do you live?

We live in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Oh, very cool. Welcome to Nashville.

Thank you.

And how much debt have you two paid off?

We paid off 192,000 in six years and three months.

Good for you. All right. And making what range of income during that six years and three months?

It's about 64 to 90.

Very cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I'm a missionary, and I work with hockey players.

I work at our church. I'm the early childhood coordinator.

Very good. Good for you guys. Six years, 192,000. Is that your house, Dave?

You are looking at weird people.

Love having weird people around me.

Yeah.

Normal is broken. You're not.

No.

Way to go, you guys. So what's this house worth, guys?

It's about 475.

Wow. Very neat.

Awesome.

And how much have you guys got in your nest egg these days?

We got about 250.

All right.

We're getting there.

Bumping up towards baby step millionaire, then.

Yep. You got it.

How old are you two weirdos?

I am 39.

I'm 37.

And you have a paid for house worth almost a half a million dollars.

Yeah.

That's just as weird, y'all. It's all.

God.

How does it feel?

Yeah, it feels really weird. Like you always say, like, the grass feels weirder. Every time I cut the grass. I always just touch it. Now it's.

Mine. You're mine.

So what happened, you guys, six years ago, where you thought, we're gonna. We're gonna take this on because it's. It's the biggest. I mean, the mortgage. It's. It's the mountain to climb, for sure.

Oh, yeah. I mean, we. I remember the first payment that we made on our mortgage. Like, we weren't doing your plan. We didn't really know about it. And, you know, you look at. To see how much money actually went towards the principal, and you're like, nothing. What on earth?

A dollar.

Totally shocked. And then it was about, like, Angie's always had a heart to say, hey, we want to pay off the house. And I just didn't know how. To me, it didn't seem possible, but my brother got me, like, the old financial piece kits, like, you know, the old school ones.

Oh, wow.

So I had the Cds, and one day I was cleaning the grill. Not our grill.

I found it for you people out there. That's a small disk that has the audio recording on it.

Yeah, yeah. So I found a grill on the side of the road and wheeled it back to our house. And I'm listening to the Cds as I'm cleaning it. And I honestly had no answers about anything with investing, insurance, nothing like that. And as I'm listening to these cds, it just started clicking, and I was like, oh, my goodness, we can do this. Cleaned the grill, put it on Facebook, sold it within, like, 2 hours. And at that point, I was like, Angie, like, we're gonna side hustle our house. And that's what we did. So, like, our income. We lived off our income. That was our budget. We paid off our house 100% on side hustles.

Oh, wow.

Just complete running and gunning. We did everything. And honestly, you could do an extra show for all the side hustle stuff we did.

What was the most lucrative?

The most lucrative, I would say it was buying, buying and selling video game systems. We did a lot of flipping. And we did. We flipped toys. We flipped everything.

Legos.

Legos. Angie got really good at garage sales, finding stuff, flipping that.

You buy it for a dollar, sell it for 20.

Yeah. Things people were throwing out. They would say, sure, take it. We would sell it.

Yep.

It's amazing. Yeah.

Yeah.

Six years worth paid off your house.

Six years worth. Yeah.

It was a lot of Legos.

It was a lot. It was one of those things of, like, you know, you work during the day, but at night you have time. And I would research at night to say, like, hey, what can I get into now? Like, what's the next thing I can get? You know, I'd be listening to the show while cutting grass or, you know, driving, and then I'd be like, hey, how can I get that next thousand and research and find out, hey, this product, I can go after this. I can find that. And that's how we hit it.

Wow, that's amazing.

That's amazing. Oh, my gosh. Okay. What? I'm curious. Name off, like, three others, because a lot of people listening, side hustling. It's a big. I mean, it is. It's obviously a really great way to pay off debt. So, like, did y'all do, like, Uber? Did you do any driving grocery delivery, any of that? Or was it more like entrepreneurial with, like, figuring out. Yeah, we did some childcare, so with extra hours that we had, we would do for small groups and stuff at church. We would be the babysitters for that. Yes. Anything like that. Mark did.

I did.

I did a lot of studies. We're right by University of Michigan, and I did a lot of studies for them. And again, there's some crazy things that you can get money for. I'll just tell you one. But there was one where I had to sit in the passenger seat of a car, and for, like, 45 minutes, their job was to see how, like, how much they could get me car sick. And I had to be on an iPad and complete all these tasks, and I was dying. But the longer you go, the more money you got.

Oh, my gosh.

And I was just, like, completely dead when that car stopped. I got out, hit the ground for, like, 30 minutes. I told her that was the worst one I ever did.

How much did you make?

It was. I mean, it's only, like, $150 or.

Something like that for 45 minutes of car sickness. You can do it. You can do it.

But they called me back, and they said, will you do it again? And I said, yes.

That's awesome, you guys. So great. Okay, so you're doing all of that, and then I see three kiddos over to your side. So what at, like, what's the family dynamic like? Cause a lot of people listening. They have families, and you said extra time at night. I thought, I'm asleep. Like, I'm so exhausted. So talk to me, like, kind of about the schedule, even. What does that look like?

Yeah, I mean, like, for. For me, I. That's when I did a lot of my research. There was times where I was waking up, like, during the night, in the middle of the night. Like, I would track inventory of stuff, figure out, hey, I got to buy it now, go to stores when the doors open. So I was grinding during that time.

The kids joined us for few things, going to garage sales, so they would come with me. That'd be a fun event for the family to do. But you didn't feel like the family is, like, suffered yet in despair now because of this process? Yeah, I would say they had to make some sacrifices. I would definitely give them a shout out for being on our team for this, because there would be times their school would do the book fair, and I would just tell them, circle the books that you want. We'll go to the library and get them or find them at a garage sale. So they just bought into it and made it a lot easier. Great job, you guys. The six years is a long time.

Rachel, you just said this story just pops my mind. There was one time where we had to go to a store right away to get something. So I was like, guys, get in the car right now. So we all hopped in, we went there and we're standing in line and I looked down at my son and we got him out of the house so fast, we forgot to put pants on him.

He was a lot littler running and going.

They were a huge part of this.

That's so great, y'all. That's so great. Oh, that happens sometimes to us. And. Yeah. And I wasn't even trying to go to a store at a certain amount of time. That's parenting brain sometimes. Well done, you guys.

And you're 37 years old with a paid for half million dollar house. Almost millionaires. That's. That's what that. I mean, that's what happens. Amazing, you guys. There's a result to this. And the result is that you guys are heroes and you've changed your whole family tree. Way to go. I'm so proud of you.

Thank you.

Very, very well done. Excellent job. Who was cheering you on from the outside, man?

I would say our family and our close friends knew that we were really tackling this debt. And so they said, go after it. They didn't really hold us accountable, but they were super excited for us to do it. Being in the mission field and at church, we just had a lot of people encourage us and support us with babysitting or with meals and. Yeah, just really pouring and loving in on our family. So things like that, that went really far with us.

And honestly, like, the show was ginormous. Like, again, cutting grass, driving. You hear that show, you hear people who make the same amount of money you do.

Yeah.

And have the same amount of debt and then it becomes possible.

Bring the kiddos up and let's hear their names and ages. I want to introduce them before we get out of time here. Hey, we've got every dollar, a couple of every dollar, one year subscriptions for you to say. Thanks for coming. So what are the names and ages?

This is Anna, she's nine. This is Mackenzie, she's seven. This is Harper and he's eleven.

And he's got his pants.

He's got his pants.

Way to go, Harper. All right. I like it. It's good stuff.

Great.

Hey, I'm proud of you guys. You're heroes. Thank you look at what you did, man. Look at what God did through you. I'm so proud of you.

Yeah.

You went out there and planted some corn and some gru. Yeah. Well done. Good job. Mark and Angie Harper. Anna and Mackenzie. Ann Arbor, Michigan. 192,000 paid off in six years and three months, making 64 to 90. They're weird, house. And everything is gone. Love it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free screen. All right.

It's all God. So we're giving glory to God. Ready? Three, two, one.

We're dead. Friends. They're amazing. Wow. Making 64 to 90. They did that.

It's amazing.

Shut up. This is the Ramsey show.

What up? What up? Doctor John Deloney here. I have some good news and some bad news. So I'll start with the bad news. The money and marriage getaway 2024. My favorite Ramsey event, just sold out. The good news? We're adding another weekend for this event. Don't miss this chance to get away to Nashville with your spouse so you can build a stronger marriage by strengthening your communication skills and getting on the same page. Listen, no more lame chocolate hearts or stressing over fancy dinner reservations because this money and marriage getaway is going to happen over the Valentine's Day holiday. This is your weekend to get away from the noise and the insanity of everyday life and focus on your marriage. Early bird tickets start at $699, and if you want a platinum level ticket, get it quick because last year they sold out in less than an hour. Go to ramsaysolutions.com events to get your tickets today. That's ramsaysolutions.com events.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Open phones at 888-25-5225 thanks for being with us. If you guys want to help us, we could use your help. You can do several things to help us. It doesn't cost you a thing, and we would really appreciate it. A bunch of you have been doing this. First thing is I want you to subscribe to the show or follow the show on the format or the platform that you're listening or viewing. Whether it's YouTube or Spotify or Google or Apple or whatever, share the show. Some of those platforms have a share button and you can send it to your buddies and say, hey, check this out. Other people, you just clip, you know, you just cut the link out and copy the link and send it to somebody in an email and say, hey, check this out. And if you're listening on talk radio, thank you for that. And let folks know the station and time and say, hey, this shows on, and it's kind of weird. It's kind of cool. You ought to check it out. We would appreciate it. And all of you that leave five star reviews, we really appreciate you that definitely.

All of those things together change the algorithms and these platforms, and they choose when someone's searching to push our stuff in front of somebody to help them then. And so it's a big deal. And we've seen a huge growth in the last 24 months in the shows, viewerships and download and all the different things or rankings, everything. And we think it's because of you guys. So thank you. We appreciate you. Josh is in St. Louis. Hey, Josh, how are you?

Better than I deserve. Dave, how are you?

Just the same, sir. What's up?

I'm 22 years old. I'm a business owner, and I'm just looking to figure out what's the best way for me to start setting myself up for the future. As far as investing, I'm probably looking to get married here within the next couple of years, and I just want to get a good foot forward.

Good for you. Josh, what kind of business do you own?

I have a lawn and landscape company.

Good for you. How much are you making a year, would you say?

Last year, I made 96. This year we're about on track to do 110.

Good for you. That's great. Is that take home pay or is that what the business is bringing in?

That was what I took home last year. I really don't take much of a. I still live with my parents, so I don't really have much overhead. I don't take much of a salary, but that's kind of what we were doing last year.

Way to go. Good for you. Okay.

Do you have any debt right now?

I just started listening to you guys. So I do have a $5,000 left on my truck payment.

Okay.

But other than that, nothing.

Awesome.

How much money have you got saved?

My business account, I have close to 55,000. My personal account, I have 25 and then two grand in a savings account at a bank. That's not doing much of anything.

Okay, so you know when that we're going to tell you as soon as you get off the phone, pay off the truck, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Soon as you get off, when you hang up, next thing, pay off truck.

Okay. He needed us to say it, Josh.

I know. I figured you guys would say it. I've been listening for a little while.

Yeah, it's pretty easy. Okay. Now you're debt free, and you stay out of debt from this point forward, growing your business, you've done a great job. And the secret sauce to your business growth is not debt, it's you. You're the secret sauce. You're the one that brought this to where it is. You're the one that'll take it to the next level, and it's not going. And borrowing money to buy a bunch of equipment. That's not the secret sauce. And people get confused when you start making little money. They suddenly go, oh, I could go do this. No, you need to be reliant on what brought you here, and that is you and your hard work and your ingenuity. You are amazing. You've done a great job to build a business like that at 22 years old. Very, very well done. But keep growing it on your ingenuity, not on borrowed money. And you have it so far, so don't. Don't fall into that trap. That's thing. Answer one to how do you set yourself up in the future? And then answer two is to start following what we call the baby steps. It is the shortest right way from where anyone is to where wealth is.

And so we're gonna set aside some of your money and call it an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

Maybe somebody that 25 that you have.

Exactly. Yeah, maybe step one is thousand dollars. You've done that. Two is debt free. You're gonna do that when you get off the phone. Three is you're gonna have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And then four is, I want you to start investing 15% of your income into retirement planning. And if you want to do something beyond that, just start throwing it over into a simple mutual fund, like an S and P 500 fund or something like that, to just pile up some money to buy a house someday, somewhere in the next 18 months or so, get out on your own as a renter. It won't hurt anything. Establish yourself in the marketplace and, you know, establish yourself as an adult outside your parents control, outside their walls. You've done, you know, you run a business, you can rent an apartment, you know, it's not going to kill you or a little house somewhere or something.

Yeah, but some good funds to look into. Josh, you know, opening up just a Roth Ira, you know, funding that for his small business, a Sep. Would he do that?

Well, you could do a Sep. Depends. Do you have full time employees or part time or 1099? How are you paying your people full time? How many guys?

Right now?

Two. Okay, guys. All right. If you want to sit down with a smart vesture pro, they can teach you about a Roth IRa, or if you want to use a sep, or if you want to use a what's called a simple IRa, which is a 401k for small businesses. One of those two things, a sep or simple, will be good for you to add more than just the Roth. If you want to start saving for more for retirement than just the $7,000 that's allowed this year. Okay. But you can throw seven grand in there real quick, and I would do that and let it start growing tax free for you in mutual funds. And beyond that, I'm going to start stocking some of this money to grow the business. That's a retained earnings over in the business. I'm going to start stocking some of it to move into a paid for house at some point. But there's no rush. You're 22. If you did all of that by 25, you'd still be a genius. You don't have to do it by 22 and a half. Okay. There's no. You're ambitious, dude. You're a go getter.

It's okay to move slowly on the house purchase, because if you buy a house as a single guy and then you get engaged and married, you will discover you have bought the wrong house. So it's not. It's okay to wait.

It's okay to have somebody sound like you have some.

Sound like he's getting ready. You're talking about that. So buy a house after you're married. That's fine. It's preferable in terms of the order to do this. You're doing great. You're gonna get there. You don't have to worry about it. You are gonna get there. Nothing's gonna stop you. Except you. So well done, sir. Very well played. Kaylin is in Sacramento. Hi, Kaylin. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi.

Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

It's an honor to have you. How can we help?

I just was calling because I was wanting to get your advice on buying another car, and I wanted to see, like, how much you'd recommend that I would spend on it, basically because I know you're not a fan of new cars.

How much money do you have?

Well, I did your program, and I paid off, like, $29,000 in student loans. And I have an emergency fund saved, so I have $20,900 in that. And then I have kind of like an everyday fund, I sort of call it, where I do, like, you know, my normal transactions. So I have about, like, 6800.

So what do you think you want to spend on a car in cash?

I don't know. I. So I was looking at some used cars, and I think. I don't know if it's just like, I'm not very good at looking at or it's California, but, like, cars with, like, 90,000 miles on them will be like 15,500 ish.

Well, that depends on the car.

Yeah, it does. But it would just take kind of a large amount of my money, and I don't make a lot per year at all.

What do you make?

About, like, 25,000 years.

You've done all of this making $25,000 a year in Sacramento, California?

Yeah. I mean, wow.

You live on nothing.

I do. So I.

It's impressive.

Yeah. But I, like, I'm a musician for a couple churches on the weekends, and then I'm a remote photo editor and I shoot weddings.

Okay.

So, yeah, you have a couple of other streams of income coming in.

You're probably making as much doing all that as you are at your day job.

No, that's like the total of everything. But I'm just kind of like a simple person. So, yeah, I was a little scared to call you guys.

So the answer to your question, Kalyn, is pay cash. Okay.

And I wouldn't get more than a $10,000 car in your situation.

That's the max, is a $10,000 car. Rich was exactly right. About half your annual income is the most you ought to have in a vehicle. Vehicle. And you pay cash for it. So with the numbers you gave us, it sounds like ten k is the right number. And get somebody at one of those churches to go with you and help you pick it out, help you shop if you don't feel comfortable with what you're doing. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author, is my co host today. My daughter. Phone number is triple 8825-5225 this is a special hour of the Ramsey show. We are doing a baby steps millionaires theme hour. What does that mean? Mean, it means we're going to only talk to real millionaires, interview them and ask them how they did that. I started doing this on this show about six years ago, and it has become one of the more popular things. This and debt free screams that we do on the air because it defeats the notion that your broke brother in law, who votes wrong, has the wrong opinion about where money comes from and where millionaires come from.

And so instead, we're going to talk to real millionaires, not broke people, with an opinion and how did they really do it? So to do that, we need to help some people, because some people don't know what a millionaire is. You think you do, but you don't. Some people think a millionaire is someone who makes a million dollars a year. It's not. There are people that make a million dollars a year that are not millionaires, and there are people that never see a million dollar a year income that become millionaires. A millionaire is a net worth term. It is an accounting term. It is not a feeling. It is not a moral construct. It's not a discussion of how much is enough. It's a simple mathematical measure of net worth. If someone says someone is a net worth millionaire, that sentence is redundant, because there's only one kind of millionaire, net worth millionaire. That's the only kind there is. So you can't say as if there is another kind. No, it's just one. And your net worth is measured by what you may, what you own minus what you owe, assets minus liabilities. If you ever take an accounting class, it's called a balance sheet.

It's the first thing you learn, and it's one of the second thing you learn in accounting class. The first is debits and credits. But balance sheet is you list what you own, your assets minus what you owe equals net worth. And that is when that number is a million dollars, you are a millionaire. And it's not cash, it's not real estate. It's not. Well, they're not a real millionaire. Yes, they are a real millionaire. If you own more than a million dollars worth of stuff than you owe, you are a millionaire. And, well, I don't feel, I don't care how you feel. It's not a field.

Is this like a big, debatable thing?

Oh, it really is. It gets all. Yeah, the dad gum social media people, the Reddit threads and all this are just confused. Yeah. And it's just, it's stupid. So you just have to, really have to lay the foundation here. So.

And I hope all of you are excited, as the guy in the lobby, he cheered when he heard that it was this.

No, it's a baby steps money. So we want to find out how people really did it. Where does wealth come from in America today? How do you get it? And as you listen to these people, you're going to hear how you can get it, and that's the point of bringing them on.

It's very.

To give you hope and to show you that it's. It's doable. Okay, so we're going to start with Rex in Columbus, Ohio. Rex, what is your net worth?

Just a little over 2 million. Dave and Rachel, good to talk to you all.

Thank you very much. How old are you, Rex?

I am 61.

Okay. And give me a little breakdown on the 2 million by category. How much in retirement, how much in real estate and so on.

Iras are about 1,260,000. Paid for house, 645,000. Cash, taxable investments, some cars and some stuff is about 90,000.

Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Good for you. And your best year working income and your worst year working income since you've been working worst year right out of.

College and right after getting married was about $15,600 for the family. And we hit 250 a couple times with some bonuses.

Very cool. What's your career?

I've been in the asphalt paving industry my entire career, from. Started in the field up into leadership, and now I'm consulting.

Okay. All right. And you got a degree? A four year degree.

No, two year associate's degree.

Okay. All right. In what?

It was civil technology.

Okay. Which led you right into this. Perfect. Okay.

Yep.

And your GPA, when you did that, do you remember it?

I know it was under 2.9, but I never got a letter from the school. So we're in there.

That's good enough. All right, cool. So when you're talking to someone today, you're 61. Oh. How much of this did you inherit?

My mother passed, and I think we got a little under $50,000. And that was after.

After you were already a millionaire?

Yes.

Okay. So it's safe to say that you're not a millionaire because of inherited money?

That is correct.

Okay. We'll make sure I get that right. So what would you tell the younger version of you if they wanted to have $2 million when they got to 60 years old? What's the secret?

There's a lot of them there. Start early. Had my first mutual. Our first mutual fund at 20. She was a great partner, and I've been married for 41 years, and she's been a partner and a teammate, and she should be on here as well. So that starting early, and we always had a plan. I think you all talk about the why we had a plan. I'm sure that the plan we had 30 years ago, we'd probably laugh at right now, but we always had a direction, and you've got to have that.

You don't accidentally win. Yeah, I agree. Very good. Very good. Okay. What's the most expensive pair of blue jeans you ever bought?

Had to buy some the other day that were $79. But my work jeans come from the thrift store, so.

Okay, let's ask. How about your wife?

Okay.

Oh, probably less than mine.

Oh, okay. So low maintenance.

Yeah.

All right. That's fair.

Yeah.

Very low.

Yes. What kind of car do you drive?

Drive a 2017 Subaru.

Good.

100 and coming close to 160,000 miles.

Okay. All right. And what kind of car did you drive before you became a millionaire?

Well, fortunately, I've always had company cars, but before we were smart, we were buying newer cars. They weren't nothing fancy, but we don't buy new cars anymore.

Okay. Before we were smart. That's very cool. You think it can still be done today?

Oh, absolutely. Two things. There's so much more opportunity. I see what employees, where they're at now on pay and benefits is. I didn't have a 401 for the first ten years. The information that you have out there is so much better. 40 years ago, it was an insurance salesman trying to sell you mutual funds. So I think there's so much more opportunity, and I do want to say one thing. With my wife, she only had twelve years where she had a 401k. Never made more than $12 an hour. This was back in the eighties and nineties. And her Ira is over $330,000 right now.

There we go.

It's amazing. Well done.

Way to go, hero.

Thanks for calling.

61 years old, $2 million. There you go. Just like that. With a two year associate's degree, worked in the paving world. Hmm. This is a baby steps millionaire's theme hour. Listen, you've been asking for it, and now it's finally here. So stop what you're doing, pull the car over, and head to ramsaysolutions.com store right now because we've got brand new Ramsey merch. I'm talking t shirts, dad hats, yetis, and even a debt free sweatshirt right now available only at the Ramsey store. That's right. You can wear your debt free scream and rock your favorite davisms, like, better than I deserve. And I included my personal favorite. We've got food at home. Your kids will know better than to ask once they see that shirt. So go check out all the brand new merch@ramsaysolutions.com. store today. That's Ramsey solutions Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality, is my co host today. This is a baby steps millionaires theme hour where we're talking to people who are real millionaires, asking them how they did it, to let you know if you have a chance or not. It's a good thing. It's called hope. And if you are a millionaire, I don't care if you won the lottery.

I don't care if you inherited your money. I don't care if you woke up this morning and the tooth fairy left you a million under your pillow. I don't care if you worked hard for 73 years and lived in a cave and collected lint. I don't care how you got there. I want to talk to you so that we can tell people how they get there. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 we're talking only this hour to real millionaires. What you own, minus what you owe, is your net worth. When that's a million dollars, you are millionaire. Tracy is in charlotte, North Carolina, and I hit the wrong button. All right, try again. There we go. Tracy's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Tracy, what's your net worth?

1.1 million, Dave.

Good for you. And give me a little breakdown on that. By category.

My house is worth 296,000 and my retirement fund, 867,000. That includes my stocks, mutual funds, Iraq, all that good stuff.

Cool, cool. How old are you?

I just turned 58 last week.

Love it. And how much of this $1.1 million did you inherit?

Absolutely nothing.

Z it all. Okay. What was your worst year of income while you've been working? And your best year of income while you've been working?

My worst year was about 18,000, and I did wind up with about 110,000, but that was a couple of years ago. Now I'm about to down to 38,000.

Okay, and what's been your career?

I worked in insurance for my 31 year career, and I kind of forced into retirement after that. Took a couple of years off. I was fortunate to.

What did. What did you do in insurance?

I was many, many things. Last quality assurance specialist underwriter. Started out very low on the toe.

And worked for your four year degree?

Only when I lost my job in one insurance company, and so I didn't get my degree until I was 30 years old.

Okay. All right. And what's your degree in?

Finance.

Okay, that's cool. And what was your GPA in finance?

Well, because I was older, when I went back to school, it was 3.75, so I just barely got that magna.

Cum laude I love it. Good for you. Well done. Okay, cool. All right. What do you tell people? The reason that you are a millionaire? What did you. What's the key to this for you?

Well, the key, Dave. I grew up really, really poor, and I became a single parent in 2009. Was divorced at age 42. I purchased a home, you know, 2009. Worst case scenario, become upside down.

How old were your babies when you got divorced?

My baby was ten years old. I'm glad you brought that up. He's sitting here with me.

Okay.

And I swore I wasn't gonna cry. I'm not gonna cry.

Well, I mean, I got single moms out there right now that just. The divorce was final this week. She's 42 with a ten year old, and she doesn't think she's going to make it. And you just proved to her she's going to not make it, Dave.

But he came home from school in 2014. I think he was in high school freshman year, and I was helping him with his homework, and so he was talking about this crazy man named Dave and these baby steps, and I thought, well, that's just crazy. And fast forward to 2017. And my church was teaching financial peace, and I just had to join up. And then I was hooked, and I became debt free soon after, in 2020. The very first day I taught my first financial peace class at church was the very first day that I was debt free, house and all.

Wow.

Did my debt free scream in front of my class. Of course, we went pandemic after that, so we had to go online, but that was amazing. To teach my first class and to announce to the class that I was debt free, including my home in 2020.

Dang. So your ten year old at. Well, wasn't ten at the time, but your son is the one that kind of introduced you to a game plan. A path. A path.

And then he got really nosy with my finances and wanted to know what I was doing and why I owe $20,000 on my car when I had money in the bank. And I just saw that he was ridiculous. He was all up in my business, and now he's sitting here, and my ex husband and I were able to get him through college debt free.

Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. Well done, Tracy.

He's never been in debt and never will be because of you. Because of me. And you.

Well, you just. You just gave hope to a whole bunch of single moms out there that they can do it, too. I'm so proud of you. Way to go, warrior.

So good.

You're a warrior princess. I'm proud of you. Very well done. Brandon. In Lubbock, Texas. Brandon, what's your net worth?

1.2 million.

Cool. Give me a little breakdown by category on that, Brandon.

Most of it is real estate or home with acreage and shop, and some farmland is right at about a half a million. And then we have savings, investments, iras, college funds. Just regular retirement savings is 345,000. And then I have farm equipment and truck. Conservatively estimates worth about 200,000. If you were to sell it all today.

Gotcha.

And then the rest of it is just cash in the money market at the bank at 170,000.

Cool. How old are you?

I'm 44.

Good for you. What was your best year that you've, income wise, since you've been working? In your worst year. Since you've been working?

Well, worst year was being in farming. There's some years that were pretty lean. Had anything down to net operating loss a couple of times, and then the best years in the past couple years have been around 100 or 120,000.

Okay, cool. Very good. So you're a farmer?

Yes.

What do you farm?

We just farm wheat and livestock and forage sorghum and summer crops.

Okay, good for you. Okay, cool. You have a four year degree?

I do not. I did not go to college. My wife does have a four year degree.

Mm hmm. All right, what's her GPA? Do you remember?

I don't know. She did well. She graduated honors, so I don't know.

She's real smart. We'll give her a 4.0 for fun.

They say behind every successful farmer is a wife that works in town.

Yeah, that's. Behind every successful man is a powerful woman and a surprised man. Mother in law. There you go. So, there you go. I love it. Hey, good for you, man. Way to go. Proud of you. So do you think somebody that wants to do what you do, they want to be in farming, and they're 24 and 20 years behind you. Can they still do this? Did they. How much of this did you inherit, by the way?

I did not inherit anything. My grandfather did let me use his older equipment when I started, and he basically, over time, gifted that to me. But it was older and not worth a lot. But it did help immensely getting started. Yeah, but, yes. Yeah. Best way to do it, just start slow. Be real careful with expenses. Be careful with lifestyle creep. It's easy to, you know, have a good year, a couple good years, you start increasing your lifestyle, and then you have a drought or failures, and so forth. And then it's really, it's pretty easy.

In your world to have a combine that costs more in your house.

That's absolutely right.

Yeah. But I think that's a good point, though. It's the highs and the lows and you feel that as a farmer, probably more than a lot of industries out there. Right. This can be so inconsistent. Right. And on things you can't always control. And so I think that's a good point. I think that's a really good point of the lifestyle creep because you kind of. Yeah. If you have a few good years in a row, you start to feel like, all right, this is my life. And you can kind of fill in that margin real quick with stuff. And then when you look up and realize, oh, my gosh, I have to back down from that, it hurts. But to watch those expenses, that's good.

When I mentioned that we had a couple of years that were basically an operating loss, that's how we made it through. We had to live on savings, and we had always been kind of thinking ahead a couple years that what if? And always kept a good, strong cash position and was able to, able to get through lean times.

That's exactly how you do it. Well done, Brandon. Proud of you, man. Excellent job. 44 years old, already worth over a million to. Excellent, excellent job. So some of the mythology that we find out there floating around in the culture about wealthy people, about millionaires, you can't be a millionaire if you're not a famous entertainer, actor, rock star, country music star, professional athlete. They all together add up to less than 1% of America's 26 million millionaires. Most of the millionaires of the 26 million are a lot like Brandon or like the 58 year old single mom we just got off the phone with. They're regular folks. You walk by them in Walmart, you'd have no idea because by the way, that's where they buy their jeans. This is the baby steps millionaire theme hour on the Ramsey show.

Hey, guys, are you ready for the secret to help you reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about? It's simple. You got to get on a budget. With our budgeting app, everydollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality. And we'll be with you every step.

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Today it's a baby steps millionaires theme hour here on the Ramsey show. The reason we call it baby Steps millionaires is because some of these people literally followed our baby steps, some didn't, to become millionaires. But we've got thousands and thousands of people out there now that have become millionaires, following the baby steps and show us, showing you how to get out of debt and build wealth. And it is the shortest right way to become wealthy. I ended up doing a book called Baby Steps Millionaires. And in it, in the back of the book, we put the white paper of the research and the whole of the whole, all the detail of the research project where we studied, did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. I had a friend named Tom Stanley who passed away a few years ago in a car accident. His daughter Sarah has continued on his work down in Atlanta, and he wrote a book in 1992 called the Millionaire Next Door. Became a very famous book, and it was an excellent, excellent product. And Tom was a marketing professor at Georgia State University. And then he became a millionaire selling eight bazillion of those books.

But he, his sample size, when he came to the conclusions of where millionaires come from in the millionaire next door was 750 millionaires. Now, those of us who've had a class or two in statistics know that 750 is a statistically significant, meaning accurate number to do research on and get an indication of what's really going on. But when you tell left wing communists trained by college professors that you can become a millionaire in America today, in the capitalistic world that we live in, they get really upset, and they've got a journalism degree and have never had a statistics class. So they attacked Tom Stanley at length because, saying, oh, he only studied 750 and it was a rigged study. And he, his whole life, that plagued him. They went after him and went after him, went after him on that. Although those of us that actually know numbers knew it was an accurate study. So we thought, okay, we know that we could do a study of a thousand or so millionaires and we would get accurate results on what's really going on. But I said, hey, just for the PR purposes, let's do ten times what Tom did.

Let's do 7500. Well, we got carried away, and we ended up doing 10,167 millionaires that we studied. We brought in an outside research firm to look over our shoulder and make sure that our research methodology was airtight, because we knew we would get the same criticisms from the lefties that he got. And so because we knew what we were going to find. It's not confirmation bias, but we've studied millionaires and walked into space for so long, we knew we had a pretty good idea what it was going to be. I got to tell you, when the actual data came in, I was a little shocked. It was more conclusive than I realized. I thought it would be like 58%, 60%. We did this. Most of the numbers were like, 858-9909 6% on the different pieces of conclusion on the data that we came to. And again, it's, it's airtight research. So if you disagree with the conclusions of this study, you are what's known as wrong. Okay? This is like, airtight. You're just, this is data. It's like facts. Okay? So that's how this works. I'm setting all of that up to tell you. One of the mythologies out there is, is that millionaires all inherited their money.

And we found that 79% of America's millionaires, that's eight out of ten, inherited precisely zero. Another 5% inherited a small amount, like five or $10,000 from granny when she died. And they did get an inheritance, but it was mathematically impossible for that to have caused them to become a millionaire, because $5,000 from your grandmother doesn't make you a millionaire. And yet you did inherit something. Another 5% received a substantial inheritance after they were already millionaires. A guy mentioned a while ago he got $50,000 from his grandmother after he was already a millionaire. Another, I often hear they get 200, 300, 400,000 after they're already millionaires. So here's the deal. 79%, zero, 5% not enough. 5% after already get being millionaires. 79, five and five is 89. That's nine out of ten of America's millionaires are not millionaires because of inherited money. So you wealthy, equality, socialist, communist people are wrong. You're just mathematically wrong. Okay? Nine out of ten of 26 million millionaires in North America today are not millionaires because of inherited money. So quit believing that crap and don't sit around and listen to somebody spout that those lies anymore because you're stealing people's hope that they can do it.

And hope stealers are evil people. You should not be stealing people's hope, not artificially. So let's talk to some real millionaires. Jack is in Rochester, New York. Hey, Jack, what's your net worth?

Right now it's about 3.4 million.

Good. Give me a little breakdown on the categories, please.

Well, I've got, like two and a half million invested in annuities and, you know, things in the stock market, stuff like that. And about 300 some thousand, like your rainy day fund. We keep cash and we keep money in some bank accounts.

Got it.

And then a half a million dollar house is paid for and probably $150,000 worth of possessions. So it's around three, 3.4 million, I would guess.

Way to go. How old are you?

I'm 72. I just had my birthday this past weekend.

Happy birthday.

Birthday.

How much of this 3.4 did you inherit, sir?

Well, I actually, I inherited about 70,000, and that was about two years ago. So I really had an awful lot of money by the time I inherited some money from my mom.

So you were already a millionaire?

Oh, yeah, quite, yeah.

Okay, so you're not a millionaire because of inherited money. Kind of like I was just talking about.

Okay, one of the 5%.

Exactly.

Now what? In your working lifetime, what was the most money you ever made in a year and the least money you ever made in a year?

I think the least money I ever made in a year was zero because I didn't work. And I think the most money I ever made was about 200,000. Probably average around 80 or 85,000 through my whole career. And I've been retired since 2019.

It was shocking to me. In that study I was just talking about, Jack, that 33%, one third of millionaires never earned over 100k.

Yeah.

That was amazing to me, that one. Mathematically, I did not see that one coming. What was your career?

Well, I did a lot of things. I mean, my first job, this is get a kick out of this first job was sweeping up the hair on a barbershop. I was nine years old. I got paid a buck a day. If I did a good job, if I didn't do a good job, I got $0.50.

There you go.

Then I washed. Then I washed dishes. I got my first real job. I ran the parts department in a Ford dealership for about 25 years. Worked for some wonderful people who taught me some great, great, great business lessons that I still use today. And, you know, I just did a lot of things, a lot of different things. Construction, publishing. Anytime I could figure out something where there was some money to be made and that I was capable of doing it, I did it.

Did you get a four year degree?

No, I went to 12th grade. I was never expected to go to college, but I was expected by my parents to know how to read and write and, you know, figure out rafters and 716 bolts and all that stuff. I mean, there was no easy ride. It's just that nobody in my family at the time had ever gone to college.

Gotcha. Okay, cool. Very good. Good. Okay. Do you think that in this world today that someone listening, if they wanted to go into the trades, could become a millionaire?

Oh, easily. Easily. Anybody who doesn't think that's in their own way, I mean, you just. You got to come up with a plan and a goal, and then you got to be steady Eddie. You got to follow it. You know, year after year. You got to do the same thing, maybe adjust your plan a little bit. You got to surround yourself with some good people. I mean, my wife is. Thinks exactly the way I do. We live within our means. You know, it's just. It's. It's. It's pretty simple.

It's awesome. Common sense, Jack. You're proof of it.

You're a hero, Jack. I'm proud of you, man. I'm proud of you. Young men and young women listen to men like Jack. Let me tell you what Jack did. He worked a lot. This is the Ramsey show, our scripture of the day, Matthew 516. Let your light shine before others that they may see. See your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven. Helen Keller said, the only thing worse than being blind is having sight but no vision. So last year's the last. It wasn't last year. Last spring, I guess, we did a money and marriage getaway here at the Ramsey event Center. And that's Rachel Cruz and doctor John Deloney doing that. And it's a Friday night, all day Saturday, even into Sunday, right?

Yep.

And it's a weekend.

Thursday night. Friday, Saturday, Thursday, Friday. So half full days. Yeah.

Yeah. And when we finished at the end of it, we put the next event on sale, and almost everyone that was there bought a ticket to the next one.

So it's like, oh, crap, we're gonna do all new.

Yeah, it's like. It almost. It's gonna. So, if that the next one is in October, and it's sold out, it's gone. You can't come. So you got FoMo. But the good news is that today we have big news. We're adding another money and marriage event. This one's going to be Valentine's Day of 2025. And so, about nine months from now, we'll be at the Ramsey event center and be doing the three day event. Rachel, what in the world? Why is this so popular? I mean, you and John are funny, you're smart, you're good speakers, you're good teachers. But, I mean, when you close up a three day event and you put it on sale and everybody that's there buys the next one, automatically that says something good happened. What do you think the secret sauce was?

You know, I don't know. We kind of all ended it and we're like, that was just like a magical time. You know? I think money and marriage both, I think, are pretty, like, vulnerable topics. Like, you know, and they're hard topics for people, too.

Right?

Like working on your marriage. Stuff happens in marriage. You're both human and it's painful, right? So there's, like, a lot of hard in that. There's a lot of hard in money. People feel like, oh, my gosh, like, I don't know how to do this. I feel like we're drowning in debt. We're not on the same page. So you put these two subjects that I really do think have a lot of difficulty, but so much upside and so much of people that really want to do well in these areas. So you have a room full of, what, 1200? How many people can be held up there in a room that are like, they're craving change? And then, so I think there's a level of that and then the style of the event, we kind of shaped this event around how John and I enjoy being with people. So there was a lot of just q and a, a lot of downtime, a lot of interacting with people, lots of teaching, for sure, but a lot of conversations. I feel like it was like a dialog back and forth with the audience through so much of the weekend.

And it was so. It was, it was so rich. It was great. It was. And it was fun, too. It's a destination. Fun things at night. Like, I mean, you're with your spouse, people are away from their kids. They feel like they're on vacation, too. So it's just, I don't know. It's really fun, you guys, so help.

You communicate better, help you strengthen your emotional connection. Get on the same page with your spouse on money. The money and marriage event, Valentine's Day 2025 goes on sale today. Tickets start at 699. Again, the one in the fall here in October has been sold out for a couple of weeks now, and this one will sell out early as well. So early bird pricing is still happening. You can save up to $350 right now, so you better hurry if you want a vip level ticket. Those sell out first on all of our events. So go find us February 13, 13th and through the 15th of 2025, Valentine's Day money and marriage event at the Ramsey event Center here on our campus. Go to ramsaysolutions.com events. It is a baby steps millionaires theme hour. Brody is in Grand Rapids. Brody, what's your net worth?

I. Dave, my net worth is conservatively about 1.3.

Okay, give me a little breakdown by category.

Yeah.

Real estate's about 800, net worth got a little over 300 and some investments and then 150 or so in cash.

Okay, good for you. All right, cool. How old are you?

39.

Good. All right. Young millionaire. Good. And how much of this did you inherit?

You know, the only thing we've inherited was a few shares of Apple stock from a grandma, so almost nothing.

I mean, literally a few. You're not exaggerating. It's like. Yeah, like ten shares. Okay, all right, so you're not a millionaire because of inherited money. Okay, good. And so, what is your best year of earning and your worst year of earning since you've been working?

Yeah. Best year is probably upwards of 200, but vast majority of my working life was going to be in that 35 to 50.

Gotcha. Okay. All right, cool. And what's your career?

I own a donut shop.

Cool.

Very cool. Four year degree?

Yep.

In what?

Business? Sports management?

Business. Sports. Okay, cool. And your GPA, then who barely got through?

I didn't. I didn't take it too seriously. Let's just say that.

Okay. Thank you. Laudy. You graduated. Thank you, loudy. Yeah. All right, me, too. I had a 2.97. There was beer involved. Yeah. So. Okay.

I got two extra semesters in my bill.

Yeah, I hear you. Okay, cool. You think this can still be done? You're only 39. You're talking to a 19 or a 29 year old out there. Can they still be millionaires in America?

Oh, undoubtedly.

So, how do you. What do you see? What do you tell them? What did you do? What was the main thing that got you there?

I'd say it's a couple of things, but I lived on well below my means and just hustled, especially in those seasons before kids, before marriage. Just really take every opportunity, work hard, whatever presents itself, take it. Save, invest, and just be wise with your money.

There you go. Okay, cool, cool. What do you drive? What kind of car?

Well, all my life I've drove the hoopies, the Dave cars, you know? But a year or two ago, I finally splurged and bought a 2020 Ford f 150.

Ooh. Nice. Good for you. Good for you. Excellent. Not exactly a Lamborghini. A Ford pickup. Okay. What? A million? What are $39 million? What did 39 year old millionaires drive that own a donut shop? Afford pickup. Okay. Just helping you guys out there that have stars in your eyes from watching too many non reality shows. So good for you. Well done. Well done, Brody. Good job, man. You're a hero. I'm proud of you. Scott's in Detroit. Scott, what's your net worth?

Hi, Dave. Good afternoon. I'm worth 1.3 million, approximately.

All right. And give me a little breakdown by category.

Yeah. 450,000 in. Four hundred one k. Two hundred thirty in raw. Four hundred one k. One hundred fifty in a Roth IRa, 70,000 in a health savings account, 70,000 liquid and cds, 21,000 in savings bonds, and about 350,000 in house and cars.

Good for you.

Go ahead. I do owe 33,000 on a mortgage still, but I'm going to pay that off in July when my cds mature.

Wonderful. How old are you?

I'm 43.

Cool. Very cool. How much of this did you inherit?

I inherited $0. I was blessed to have parents who were able to pay for my undergrad at a four year state school.

What's your degree in?

Mechanical engineering.

Ah. You an engineer? Are you an engineer?

I lead a technical sales team. We sell engineered products. So sort of an engineer.

Okay. In that. In that field? Around it. Okay, good. What is your. The worst year of your income since you've been working? In your best year of your income since you've been working?

I made $3,000 working in a fast food restaurant when I was 15 years old, and I actually managed to peel off a few hundred dollars to open a Roth Ira off of that. And I made a. Yeah, and I made about 170 gross last year.

Good for you. You think this can still be done?

Yeah. You know, fortune favors those who get up and go to work and not buy crypto.

Thank you, Matt Damon. George will love that line. Oh, man, that is so fabulous.

It is true, though, Scott. Well done.

In other words, don't try to get rich quick, stupid. Yeah, that's it. That's exactly it right there. Well played.

Get to work and don't buy crypto.

Hey, man. Congratulations, hero. I'm proud of you. Well played. Well played. 615-844-7239 and 43 years old. 2,000,001.11.23. None of them because of inherited money. Over half of them did not have a four year degree. Out of all the ones we talked to, I think I talked to. We talked to one person today with a four year degree. All the rest of them didn't have a four year. That's unusual.

Yeah.

I will tell you that the top five careers, engineer in the study that we did. Engineer, accountant, teacher. Teacher. Yeah. And business person and attorney. That's the top five careers. That puts us our, the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's everydollar. The everydollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with everydollar for free right now. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com everydollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions.com everydollar.