This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life. We're taking your calls, walking you through practical steps so that you have some hope and some action items. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Of course, we'll take your money calls. We got the mental health relationship guy here, and I love to weigh in on some of that stuff. It's just so fascinating. Where are you struggling in that area, and how's that affecting some of the money things that are going on in your life? Then I'm the income guy. Winning at work. Let's get better so our paycheck gets bigger. That's my whole theme. That gets you to the baby steps faster. You've got the options today. We're happy to talk with you about your life, whatever the situation is. Are you ready to go, good sir? Let's sing and dance, Ken. Okay, great. I'm down for it. I'll do the singing. I can't dance.

I'm an incredible dancer.

You got good rhythm?

No, I'm terrible.

Yeah, I've never seen you dance.

It's very intentional.

I'm terrible. I mean, I'm really bad.

I don't know what the deal is. I'm embarrassing.

I can catch a ball, throw a ball. I feel bad for my wife. Me too.

I just see a guy glide through a room and just think, I'm sorry, honey.

Which is why I watched Dancy with the Stars for years because I felt so bad for Stacey that I couldn't dance it. I caved in and watched that.

You just gave that to her. Here's what this looks like, honey. Sorry.

Sorry, I can't do it, but I'll watch other guys do it. It's one of those deals. All right, we're going to have some fun today. We always do. Let's get it started in San Diego, California. Julie, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Well, I've watched a few segments of your Ramsey show and heard a few things about other individuals who have a similar situation that I do. I'm in a blended family, and we both have adult children. I find that my lovely husband tends to financially support his adult children a little more so than I feel is necessary.

Hey, Julie.

Yeah.

You're super talking around this with my lovely husband who's just a little bit more than… Just be as honest as you can.

Sure. Well, I don't agree with the situation right now that his decision on or his lack of a decision, he's not sure what he wants to do. He's not sure if he wants… So his son recently got into a situation where he was schemed into opening up an Amex card, taking out $10,000. How he got this card? I have no idea. And then he's now in $10,000 in the hole with no job. And my husband feels like he needs to take out a heelock or pull his stocks out to bail out his son.

How old is his son?

His son is 21.

I don't see where the big mystery is on how he got an Amex card. They let 16-year-olds fill that crap out. Let's get over the mystery of how he got the Amex card. He probably applied for it in two minutes. He got it.

Let's call a little bit of bull crap on got the big scam. No, he didn't. He's a 21-year-old kid that ran up 10 grand on a credit card.

Now, here's where this gets tricky, Doc. We've got his kid, his boy, but I'm assuming you guys are joint finances, as we would teach and recommend, Julie. You guys are in the same bank account, so it's our money, not his money and my money. Is that right?

We've got separate accounts because he has the house that we live in It was under his name. It was his house prior to us getting married. We have everything. We share a lot of things, but we're both very open and honest with what we're spending our money on and if we need to help each other out.

Okay. What's the open, honest situation look like as it relates to this Heloq thing? Have you told him everything you're telling us, how you don't like it? Yes.

I have told him, and I said, If he decides to do that, then we need to sign a postnup that that belongs to him should anything happen between us. He likes.

Julie, what are you doing?

Wow. A postnup.

Yeah. You can't triple stamp with double stamp. Here's the deal. You have to go You haven't fully been honest with him. Here's the deal. You don't respect that guy. You're married to a guy that you don't respect. Here's why. He has not incorporated you into his life as his wife. You all are two people who are dating who got married who are still living like college roommates.

Right. No. Yeah, I agree.

You and your husband live like me and Ken do, except you all share a bed. That doesn't happen for me and Ken. I got an uncontrollable shiver here. I'll Venmo Ken money if we go out to dinner. If Ken bought something and I was going to participate, I would help pay for that. You see what I'm saying? It's ridiculous how you all set it up and expect it to work united. So of course, he's going to make his own money decisions because he's caring for his own money. And you've lost respect for him, and he doesn't know that. You keep talking about this as money. And you're having a hard time being with a man that has adult kids that is not letting their adult actions have adult consequences. And he's probably a dad who's a father of divorce who still feels some guilt, and he's still carrying on trying to duct tape over that relationship. Partage in a paratree. You have to be honest with it.

Can I say something, too, to add to this list, Doc? I think that she's forgetting that she's a very different person than he is. Had they had kids together, they would still see differently on how they should parent. Absolutely. This is part of the issue, too. She's coming in with, Well, I've got a past. My kids are older, his are older, and I think John's hit something here, Julie, but I think you've got to realize you guys don't see parenting the same way. Oh, no, not at all. Let me just say this. Stacey and I have only been married to each other for 26 years, and our oldest just graduated high school, and we're having conversations all the time about, as we look back on his 18 years, how very different we still see things. We've learned how to parent on the same page, but rarely, John, are we on the same line.

This morning, I said, I'm going to do X with my son, and my wife said, No, you're not. I was like, I guess we're going to have… But here's the thing. We have a context for that relationship. You don't. How long have you been married to this guy?

We've been married for a little over three years, but together over 10.

Okay. How you all have avoided some of these harder conversations? I don't know. Did this 21-year-old live in your home 10 years ago?

Yes. Well, 10 years ago, we weren't living together. We started living together in 2020, and then we got married in 2021.

But still, he's 17. Yeah. Yeah, this is a weird deal.

Once you get into the post-ups and this is yours, but that's mine, you're in a whole new... Your relationship moves to even thinner ice, and it's already on. Right. Are there other things that he does that you've lost respect in? It can't just be this.

No, it's not.

You need to be honest with him.

Yes.

He sounds like a clueless husband who's plugging along, trying to keep his kid smiling. That's not always the best gift we can give our kids, but he doesn't realize that he's losing his wife.

Right.

Is that true?

At times, yeah. I try to get over here and there because I- How's that working for you?

Just get over it.

It's a temporary fix. I can see that. Yes. It's a Xanax.

It doesn't fix the problem. Right. I think you need to sit down and say, I, not you, I am struggling in this marriage. I'm losing respect. I'm struggling with this and this and this and this. And by the way, the money with your 21-year-old son is just the cherry on top of the Sunday. But there's bigger issues in your relationship now.

I feel like, John, this is old-school define the relationship. That's it, DPR, maybe. High-school style. They actually need to be married all the way through with everything. That's the bigger conversation, Julie. That's what the doctor is telling you, and I agree 100%. I know you called about a $10,000 potential loan on the house, and you just got a whole buffet of things you got to deal with, but I think that's the play. Thanks for calling us. We're rooting for you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, listen up. Everyone is at risk of identity theft.

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The Ramsey Show rolls on. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins We were here to help you win in your money, in your relationships, and in your work. If you are losing in any one of those areas, even if you're just holding steady, just not really growing, it's going to begin to affect all of those other areas. That's why we focus on those in the Ramsey show and in our Ramsey Solutions Company and all we do. We want to help you win today, 888-825-5225. Arlington, Virginia. Joe is there. Joe, how can we help?

I was sitting there, I was talking to... What's happening is I'm getting married in May 17th, 2025, and I've been talking to people about joining bank accounts with my fiance. It hit or miss with everybody. But it was like, get a joint bank account and then have your separate bank accounts.

Let me ask you a quick question. I've been listening to you guys for a while. Yeah, let me ask a question on that. Are you saying that you're asking, should we join bank accounts now, as in we're engaged? Yeah. Oh, okay. You're not asking people what they think about joining a bank account after you get married?

No. I was thinking about, I mean, for getting married, we might as well before everything comes out on the table.

I would tell you I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got engaged ended up getting married. Okay. I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got married stayed married. I would tell you your impulse is right to absolutely join checking accounts. The best... I can give you the data that says it's going to be better for your marriage long term, and it forces you to come to the table and join- Join bank accounts while they're engaged? No, no, no. That's what he's asking. But I'm going to tell him, Don't do it until you get married.

I agree. Okay, good. I didn't know where you were going with that.

I get what you're saying. We're going to get married, so we might as well do all this stuff up front. I would wait until you have that legal protection before you start joining stuff up.

Okay. Yeah, she doesn't know the extent. I've been listening to you guys for the past year now, so I paid everything off except my house. I'm like, I don't want her to know how much is in retirement yet. But what else? Why? What else ? Why?

Don't start keeping secret.

I sold off my company about six years ago, and I made a lot of money and then put it in an investment towards my retirement. So I was talking to her The other day, and I was telling her, that was the other thing. I was like, I want us to be retired by 55. And she just started laughing at me. I forgot what she said. She said, You work too much, and you like to work too much, and you're never going to retire.

Yeah, but let's go back. Because we didn't give you a chance to answer the real, why do you not want her to know how much money you got stacked away?

I mean, I've just been weird about it. When I talk to other people about it, some of my predecessors, when I started my own company before I sold it, they were just, don't let her know until it's done and over.

They were married. That's a cop-out.

Yeah, that's nonsense.

Let me tell you what you just said to me. You just said, I said, Why? And you said, Well, because some other guys had sold their company. They said not to. So it's all their fault, Ken. And whatever, bro. All they did was validate. No, they validated your own fear. So what is the reason for not telling her?

I think last relationship because we have kids from separate parents. So the last relationship didn't go too well. I wasn't married, so there was no legal obligation except my son there.

So you think going into a new marriage with a bunch of money and a bunch of secrets is going to be the better path?

No, you're right on that.

That's like, Man, my last diet didn't work out, so this I'm just going to put pizza in the back seat all the time. It doesn't make any sense what you're saying. The only path forward is to be completely honest and integrity. I also get this. When you're first dating, how much money is in the bank? Let's just go there.

In funds? In my bank account, since I paid everything off- How much are you worth?

Just total, bro.

1.3..

Okay.

She has no clue of that.

She knows a little She just doesn't know how much I have in mutual funds, investments.

How old are you?

Thirty-six.

Okay. That's a good chunk of money. It's not- It's not a bazillion dollars.

She already said yes without knowing how much money you got stuck. I don't know what your fear is. I mean, she's not a gold digger. Yeah. Right.

Are you scared that she actually likes you?

That might be the issue, too.

Bro, why don't you just let her love you?

Yeah, that's true, too.

I think that's it.

That's the issue. I tell you right now, if you think you're better than her because you sold a company and made $1.3 million, you might as well just break this engagement off now before it cost you half of that because you're going to lose it because this relationship won't make that ego video, arrogant approach to love and connection and vulnerability. It won't make it.

I know I love her, or I would never propose to her, because I've never proposed to anybody. I I do know that, and I definitely know I'm not a better nurse. She's a way better person than Bema.

Well, we knew that without even meeting her.

Hey, here's what love looks like. Love looks like, this is all of me. Do you still love me? You hope that they say that back, and you'll take that risk for the rest of your marriage. I would love for you to sit down and say, Hey, I've got a surprise for you. I've kept this from you, but here's a surprise. I got $1.3 million in the bank. She's probably going to go, Oh, yay. You want to go get some pizza?

You're exactly probably right on that. Or stay inside and eat. That's the way she does it.

Let's circle back to the initial question. Is she on board? I know you've been out polling people, and John and I are the latest people to poll.

We quit polling people by the way.

Yeah, stop polling. That's a good point. But by the way, we're honored to be polled. John and I love few things more than our own opinions, so that's fine. But where's she at on joining Is she there, and you guys were just getting other people's takes, or are you guys on different sides of the page?

We both are there. Okay, good. She thinks it's a great idea. The only thing she brought up to me, and we were going to talk about paying it off this week, is she had some medical debt, like seven grand, so she was scared that someone would put a freeze on the bank. She was straight up honest with me about that.

Okay. Does she have any money to pay that off?

We had been working together. I definitely make the more money part. I've been trying to let her do her own thing, but I was more than willing to pay it off, and she doesn't feel right with me paying it off.

Neither do I.

If she's behind it and it's about to go to collections and it's going to collapse from things and you've got $50,000 in a checking account right now, I can see you helping out your fiancée. But if she's paying bills- Every time I asked her about it, she was, No, I want to pay it off myself.

Okay.

Then honor that. Yeah. Here's the deal. If If for some reason, Joe, she doesn't get it paid off, but she's trying, and you guys get married, then it's a wee thing, and then you can do what John's saying. You paid off that day. You stroke the check, right? Yeah. So get out of your head. I think the theme of this call is get out of your head and just live inside your heart here on this deal. You've somehow convinced a woman who's a great woman with poor judgment to say yes to you. You're probably right. I know I'm right. That's my situation.

Let me tell you this. There's some research on this It's called choice psychology. Yes. Essentially, our brains cannot process. Go to the supermarket next time and go by the salad dressing aisle. Your brain cannot process 119 versions of ranch. So whichever one you buy, you will have buyer's remorse. I should have got the other one. I should have got the other one. And we can't absorb that many choices. Why am I telling you that? You are a guy who is smart, you're driven, you do well in business, you've done well in love with this woman, and you don't trust you. So you ask everyone's opinion on everything from a cup of coffee to a business deal to a marriage, right? Yeah, I do. And you ask so many opinions that no matter what you do, your brain is like, Oh, you should have done the other one. You should have done the other one. Are you right? Is this good? I don't think it's good. And you don't sleep.

That's a good call.

I want you to have one or two mentors that you trust deeply. And I want you to begin to trust yourself, man. You've done well up to this point.

He needs one of those old cloth bracelets that were hot several years ago, WWJD. We just changed it to Joe. What would Joe do? Joe, you got a brain. I love the docs laying down, man. You feeling good? You're ready to rock?

Yeah. Good.

I can't tell.

Don't join bank accounts until you're married. That day, join it all up, take care of your debts, and you'll move on into the future.

Tell her how much money you have, Joe. She'll be fine. All right, don't move. Couple of quick messages, and we'll be right back with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey It doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks. 93% of undergraduate private student loans are cosigned. So when you're delinquent and drowning, mom or papa or uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress along with you.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. How many of you out there are feeling like you got to stay on the sidelines in this whole real estate situation? You're looking at rates and you're going, Should we sell? Should we list and sell our house? Or is it time for us to jump in and buy? That's a legitimate question in today's real estate market. The answer is you need a Ramsey trusted agent to help you make that decision. Whether you're selling or buying, they're going to help you stay on track with your financial goals. They understand what we teach, and they understand the market locally. They've got a lot of experience, and you could trust them. So make sure you take advantage of this experience. These are Ramsey-trusted real estate agents. You can talk to them, meet with them, find the right one, the right fit, and you can find one for free. All you got to do is go to ramseysolutions. Com/agent, ramseysolutions. Com/agent. All right, Alfred is up next in Yakima, Washington, one of my favorite places to say. Alfred, how are you?

Better than I deserve. Thank you.

Oh, there we go. We got a Ramsey Solutions Ramsey show fan there. Why are you so good that you had to call us today? What can we help with?

Well, life is good. Debt is bad. Yes. I am currently in baby step to the snowball, my consumer debt, card debt. Then I have about $88,000 in student loan debt spread out over 13 different loans.

How much in consumer debt do you have? Let's go back a step.

Our consumer debt, about 7,500.

And what is that in?

Various credit cards. Okay.

Keep going.

And then I have a The new vehicle we got earlier this year, that's $26,000.

Okay.

I do plan on having the consumer debt paid off by the end of the year. The student loans are currently in income-based repayment. Those are on pause at the moment. Okay. I don't have a payment on those.

What's this vehicle?

It's a suburban. We were blessed. We have a baby coming next month, so we needed to upgrade in a vehicle.

From what to a suburban? What did you have before?

We had a truck.

Is this first baby, second baby, third baby? What are we talking about?

Fourth baby. After many years of our other children, the youngest is eight. Okay.

Did you put any money down on the suburban?

We did.

What equity is in the car? If you paid 26, what's it worth and what do you owe? Well, you owe 26, right? I'm sorry. You owe 26 on the vehicle. So How much it worth? It's probably worth 28. Okay, so you're not much equity. Okay. All right. How can we help? What's the question?

I got the car and the snowball and the consumer debt at grass, but these Thirteen different student loans just makes me want to jump out of my skin when I sit down and look at those numbers.

Well, the number is the number. Whether you got 13, 23, 300 loans, the number's the number, and the number you need to focus on is the 88,000. Even though it spread out over the 13, and you got this income repayment plan- I actually like it spread out over 13 because it gives you a bunch of small wins.

It's digestible.

But either way, my point is, either way, you've got to knock them all out. I don't know what's paralyzing you there.

I guess just the fear of seeing the 13 different ones. I guess maybe I should look at it as consumer debt goes the smallest to largest on those.

That's it. Yeah, it's a snowball. Exactly.

Okay.

That's the reason the snowball exists that way, because most people They'll look at... They'll do interest rates, and this is why most people fail paying off their debts. They look at interest rates. The student loans might have the lowest, and they'll have an $88,000 hill to climb. They'll put $3,000, $3,000, and then they'll have given six grand of their life away, and still have an eight in front. It'll still be $80,000. You're like, This stinks. I'm done with this. Versus you have 13 loans. With $3,000, pay off the first one? Yeah.

Okay.

What's What's your lowest? Let's just walk through this. Give me the lowest number on the 13 loans.

Let's round it up to 2,400.

All right, so that's your first one. You're thinking, Well, I'm going after the $7,500 in credit cards. Well, I'm sorry. Those credit cards are spread out, too. How many credit cards do you have?

Six.

Okay. Yeah, this is a snowball. This is very simple. It's a spreadsheet. It's a spreadsheet or a whiteboard or a piece of paper, and we go smallest loan to Two largest loans.

Can I tell you what I want you to do? I want you to do what me and my wife did. We got a bunch of construction paper like children, and we made a paper chain, and we hung it in our bedroom. I hung it in my bedroom. She was not a huge fan of that. But I just need you to see it every day. You're going to have seven credit card debts. You're going to have 13 student loans. You have 20 links on that chain, plus your car. I want you to pay one-off, and you're going to tear one down. Suddenly, you're going to have 19. You're going to pay off another one two months later, and you're going to have 18. You're going to start knocking these things out, and you'll see a lot of progress, and you'll start feeling good about yourself. Right now, it just feels like a huge jumbled mess in your head, right? Yes, it does. Yeah, get it out of your head and get it on paper and look at it and say, Okay, I got 20 of these little things. They get smaller, and they get bigger, but we're going to get the small ones down.

You're going to have two or three left, and they're big, and they're going to suck, and you're going to get them knocked out.

What's your income, and what do you do?

I'm a delivery driver. I made $22 an hour, 40 hours a week.

Is your wife working outside of the home?

No. She was starting to start a new career, then the baby surprised us, and at the moment, she's not.

Okay. Well, the only thing I'm going to add to this equation is you need more income, and you're only working 40 hours a week. I understand your wife is pregnant, and that's a conversation between you two on that deal. But I know if I was you, I'd be driving or be doing something else to the tune of $22 or more dollars an hour, and let's double my income. Because if I double my income, I double the rate at which I'm paying off these loans. Make sense? Yes, it does. Here's the deal. John gave you a great prescription here on the chain, the piece of paper, however you want to do it, but you got to get some more income right now, and you work as many hours as you possibly can, physically, emotionally, and relationally, what your responsibilities are with the kids. But you can do more, and you need to be doing more. I mean right away. Because more relief comes when you start knocking those debts off, and every time you start moving those payments, rolling those payments over, and the bigger the payment gets as I knock off each smaller debt, and All of a sudden, I look up six months, 12 months from now, and I'm making some serious progress.

But it's income at this point. The intensity you need is the stress you're feeling. You got it? You turn that stress Listen to, I can actually control my output, and I can control what I go and earn. I'm going to focus on that and not be stressed by the payments. Got it?

Got it.

All right. You fired up or are you still overwhelmed?

The motivation's there. Okay. Kind of taken back by the call, but the motivation's there. I want another baby. We got to start thinking about a retirement. We're almost 40. There you go.

I want you to keep these two words in your mind. Little wins. Little wins. Little wins. Nobody increases their bench press by just going really hard over a weekend. You lift weights every week, week after week, after week, after week, and you look up in six months, in a year, in two years, and you're much stronger. It's just little wins. You got to keep showing up.

Yeah, that's right. That's why, by the way, Dave came up with that concept that really took off baby steps. Because what he figured out in such a genius way of listening to his audience many decades ago is this idea that I get that little win through a baby step because I realized I can do that.

It feels good.

It feels good. I can pay off $1,200. I don't know if I can pay off $200,000.

You can't just pay off $200,000. No. I pay off 200. I'll pay off $200. I'll pay off $700, $700, $900. That's right.

That's the magic. Good stuff. Alfred, hang in there, buddy. You're okay. We've talked to people with a whole lot less gumption and a whole lot worse situation than you, my friend. You're highly motivated. You're a good dad, you're good hubs, and you're going to win on this deal. So stay with it. All right, you all stay with us. We got a quick break and we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. There aren't many places you can save hundreds of dollars a month and still give you great service, especially with health insurance.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are here for you to help you win financially, relationally, professionally. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me this hour. Clinton is going to join us now on the Motor City, Detroit, Michigan. Clinton, how can we help today?

Thanks for having me on. You bet. I am currently 982K in debt. I got two mortgages on that, which makes up the large percentage of that, but it is still roughly about 100K in consumer debt. I'm curious if there is a A recommendation about selling the rental property. It makes me nervous due to the fact that we moved and we own a different house in a different state, and I'm renting that out.

Okay, so give us the details. Let's stop right here so we know what we're dealing with. You are in the Detroit area. Where is the rental house? How much do you owe on it, and how much could you sell it for today? I need those three answers.

Okay. It's Seattle, 0475. I believe I can... I'm seeing other things go up for 700K, and so I'll be conservative and say I could probably easily sell for 650.

All right. I like that number, 650. Okay, and you 0475 on it. And so your question to us is, should I sell it and take the profit from that and put it to my debt?

Yeah, I may be able to make it out of that sale and straight into baby step four. I think that might even give me enough for my savings and to pay off the rest of my- I would hang up with us right now.

Why are you calling a realtor in Seattle and have that house listed within the next 30 minutes, if I could?

The question is because I have tenants currently living in it, and I'm not sure how that works.

Well, tell us, what do you got? What's your agreement with them?

Well, we have a 12-month agreement that started on April first, I believe. Just off top of my head. Twelve-month agreement, and I told him that if he were to make the payment on… Because he wanted to do 24 months. I told him if he made his payment every month on time, then I would give him a six-month extension. So I'd put him at 18 months, and I wouldn't hike the rates on them. Then at the end of the 18 months, I would have to maybe just adjust for inflation or something like that.

I think you got to figure out what Seattle's, what Washington's rules are on tenant law, and are you allowed to sell the property even though it's under contract, and how much notice you have to give them, things like that.

It's worth paying a lawyer, somebody who knows what they're doing, because things change. I totally get the conviction here to not do these people wrong, but I think there's a middle ground here. I don't think just... Let's say that you find out that you can just willy-nilly sell it. Probably can't in Washington State. My guess is they've got some protections there. But if you can come to a man-to-man agreement, Hey, here's where I'm sitting. I think there's always the law, and then there's a civil conversation.

The right thing to do, yeah.

I would try both. See what your options are legally But still be... And by the way, you're a good person. That's why you called. I'm not worried about you doing something wrong to these folks. But outside of that, once you know your legal options, and if you have an option to shorten the term of this deal and get out of it so you can sell the home, you can still be kind and sit down with them and try to figure it out. John, you got something? Yeah.

This is just me looking at a quick look on the internet. It says to sell a rental property with tenants in it in the state of Washington, you can wait for the tenant's lease to expire or negotiate with a tenant regarding early move out.

There's your option, looks like.

Maybe you give them, say, Hey, I'll give you a free month, but we're going to need to cut this thing short because I got to sell this property. My finances aren't what I thought they were here in my new town. Or you honor your 12-month agreement and you learn a long, harrowing, frustrating lesson. Hopefully, this is a good tenant. It's a good person of character, and they pay every month. Then when it's over, you don't extend the lease and you sell the property.

I know it's an ignorant thing to say, but I do trust the tenant will pay because he seems like a good tenant that I have in there now. Another option was possibly a lease option, where I get a large chunk of change down now to lock in the price at a later date. That way, the big chunk of change helps me pay off the debt. Can I just interrupt you?

Yes. You've tried to do these little whooptie-dos and rigmaroos, and that's what got you in this exact situation. Just don't get cute with it. Just Let the lease roll out or negotiate with the guy and then sell the property when it's free and clear. But if you do a lease with a big chunk down, and then I'm going to do this, I'm going to triple stamp with double stamp, I'm going to slap it up, flip it, reverse it. You're going to do all these things, and you're going to find yourself in another weird situation where you owe a million dollars, dude.

Are you really tight as it relates to your margin right now, and that's why we're doing this, or can you make some momentum, keep going on the snowball while we're waiting to figure out this purchase? Excuse me, the sale of this property. What's your situation?

We're not tight. We make 250 a year.

My point is, you can still make progress, and What John and I want you to know is you need to be attacking the debt while we're figuring out. Don't just put it on cruise control and wait for the sell of this house to make everything clean. Makes sense?

Yeah. I was watching a different podcast, and I saw a brand deal on there, the Theovon podcast, and that convinced me to sell my truck. Good for you.

Wow.

Way to go. Yeah. I'm still waiting for the check to clear, but that's an extra 21 grand. I'm going to drop down on the debt.

Then you got it. You're on this, man. Thanks for the call. By the way, I'm going to highly recommend, since Rachel Cruz is in the kids' book thing now, you should, After the Whoopdi Doos and Righamaroos. I feel like that's your next installment. It's your own Dr. Seuss line. And the Kangaroos, that's right. Whoopdi Doos and Righamaroos.

Ken the Kangoo.

If I could have a title character, I would really appreciate.

I'm going to roll with Ken the Kangoo and the Righamaroos.

I love it.

It's going to be obnoxious, insane financial whoops people find themselves in.

It had a ring to it. I wanted to call that out. We'll put it on the table for John's next few product lines. All right, next is Katherine in Milwaukee. Katherine, how can we help today?

Hello. I've been watching you guys forever. I love you and also listening, and I have every one of your books, and I love all of your wealth and knowledge.

Katherine, we love you.

We're going to make you a fan of the... A head of the fan club, rather. We appreciate you.

All right, so we're up against the clock. I have all of your books.

You guys are amazing.

Thank you. We got about two minutes to That's amazing for you. What's your question?

Thank you. I actually have three questions. Two of the questions are regarding my niece and my nephew. I became guardian over them two years ago when my sister passed. When she passed, she left $75,000 for each of them in a college IRA Roth. Then she also left $100,000 in trust for each of for when they turn 18, they can do whatever they want. With that trust, should I be adding more to their college? Because I know college is expensive.

No, not that much. You're telling me they have $175,000 when they turn 18? Yes. Yeah, they're good.

Okay. They're good. The 15-year-old actually is going to do what I did, and I keep telling him to live his life, be He's the best person. When I was their age, he's 15, he's actually going to be starting college-accelerated courses. Great. So he'll be in high school and going to college. When I was in college, I actually worked for two hospitals, and they paid my tuition and everything. So I had no college debt when I graduated from my bachelor's and also my master's.

Here's a great gift you can give him. If you can steward your niece and nephew, if you can steward them to still not just rely on this money, but you steward them through this process Then they get through college debt free. They have a $175,000 launching pad to start their life with. Yeah. Can you imagine? No.

That's amazing. It was an amazing gift that she left them. That's right. They want to honor her. Yes.

You do, too. They are really lucky that they got you as their guardian. You're an amazing woman. Yeah. Awesome.

Katherine, what an awesome story. Love it. Great call there. Paying it forward. That's a real legacy. Thank you for sharing that story with us. All right, good hour, Dr. John Deloney. Thanks for hanging. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless leader, and the merry band of folks behind the class for keeping us on the air. I got to take a break. This is The Ramsey Show. This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win in life. I want to help you win in your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. You're winning in those areas. You've got a shot at having that freedom that you long for. 8888.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.880.8.880.8.880.8.880.8.8.8.8. 825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour, and we get to the phone. Salt Lake City, Utah, is where Aaron joins us. Aaron, how can we help?

Hey, John. Hey, Ken. How are you? I am looking for permission to build a second home in the mountains. My wife and I have been super intentional for over a decade, and I think we're in a position to do it, to pay cash. We're debt-free. I think we just need mental and emotional permission to do this.

Well, we can't give you that. We can walk through the decision-making process. So did I hear you say you've got the money You set aside right now to build this house cash?

Correct.

Okay. Do you have any other debt?

No.

Okay. What's your net worth?

3.9..

How much is this house going to cost?

1.2. Yeah.

I would be with a builder tomorrow.

I know. I don't see. Is there some fear or is this doubt? What is the holdup with the two of you? Are you both on the same page on this as to the, Oh, we need permission. What is it, specifically?

We're both savers, I think. It's been a long road to get to this point. It's a dream we both have. We both want to do it. We just don't want to be stupid at this point.

Yeah, but what evidence do the two of you have that this purchase is stupid?

Not a lot, which is why we're going forward with it.

I Oh, okay. I was going to say not a lot. I was like, I'd love to know what's on the list.

Yeah. I would tell you the thing we can give you permission to do is sometimes you have a dream and a goal of something for 5 years, 10 years, and you get there and you realize that life has shifted. You have permission, even after dreaming and hustling for this for a decade, you have our permission to not do it. If you all got here and you're like, You know what? We love having a million dollars in the bank. It feels better for us, and we can just go rent an amazing seven bedroom Taj Mahal in the mountains for a month a year if we want to. If that's the world you want to be in, go do that. But if you want to build this house and you've been saving and you got the money, go build the house, man.

Here's a fun exercise. Aaron, why don't you guys just envision for a couple of days, just literally go, Okay, you know what? We're not going to do this. We're going to just bank the 1.2. What would you do with the 1.2 if we didn't spend it on the house? What would be your natural inclination?

To put it back in the market. Drop it.

Yeah. Many years from now, would you be wondering about this house in the mountains, or would you be so excited with all the money you made off the 1.2?

I would definitely rather have the house and all the memories and the proximity to all the things we enjoy.

Then I think that's how I play this. Every time doubt starts to creep up in a situation like this, I would flip the... Okay, if I let doubt win here, I doubt whether or not we should spend the 1.2 because I think this doubt. I think if I start to doubt that, I'm going to go, All right, let's look at the alternative. If I don't spend it on something I've dreamed for. By the way, you guys have worked really, really hard. You sacrificed a lot, too, to get here, right, Aaron? Yeah, for sure. Then I think you have two conclusions. We worked hard, we saved, we got 1.2, and we did it because we wanted this dream house in the mountains. No, we changed our mind. We just did all that because we want to stick it in the mutual fund and count our money over the next 10, 15 years. It It's ludicrous. My partner is laughing over here. But I do think that is the choice. I think if you begin to make it that clear choice, I think all of a sudden you go, What am I talking about? Why am I calling these two clowns?

I need to build this house.

Can I tell you, I'm a nervous spender, too. Can I tell you how I make this decision? This is not a Ramsey thing. This is not a math thing. This is a Deloney. Get out of jail card. Let's say you build this house for $1.2 million. That tells me it's going to be a pretty amazing house in the mountains of Salt Lake City, right?

Yeah.

Let's say the market implodes, and this house is only worth half, and you sell it. You're forced to sell it someday. You're still getting $600,000. Nobody's going to starve. You see what I'm saying?

And you got the memories to boot with it.

Yeah, definitely not a financial thing. There you go. Good. Emotional. Like you said, we worked so hard to get to this point.

We just- Did you grow up with not a lot?

I would say middle to lower.

Okay. Because sometimes second homes are for those people, and we're not those people. Or million-dollar properties, yeah, those people buy million-dollar properties, not us. Sometimes We have these limiting identities that we tag ourselves with that make it hard to enjoy blessings and make it hard to be generous and make it hard to do things that make mathematical sense for us.

I got another I have a question on this, John. Is there some type of psychology condition where this is the first big, giant, this is the first purchase that's this big for them, I'm guessing. Is that right, Aaron? This will be the most expensive thing you've ever paid for in For sure, our primary residence, we purchased for under 200,000. Okay, I'm wondering, is there some just basic? It's a million dollars. It's just part of the... This is the biggest thing ever. He's not been there before.

Dave has helped me because I would never been there. Dave has helped me personally with sticking to the ratios.

Yeah, so it's just normal. It's normal. The point is, this is very normal, Aaron, because your brain has never processed $1.2 million in the form of a purchase. That's almost 10X what you've spent before. Do you have kids?

I do.

You got their college funds funded. I'm trying to think of anything else that down the road, you might go, Oh, no, I wish we had this cash.

Yeah, so first two, either out of school or have a full-rate scholarship. The youngest is still in high school, but yeah, we're fine.

Hang up the phone and tell your wife, Hey, we're building a house. Absolutely.

You know how fun, man. Aaron, this is a deal where there are People that live in this Yolo world, you only live once, and they're making foolish decisions, and they are rationalizing those foolish decisions based on this. But this is the reverse. This is the chance to live a life that you can reminisce on, not regret. I'm telling, if you don't build this house, you will get to the end of your journey, and you will not reminisce. You will regret this. This is why we do what we do here. This is living the dream. When people stand on that stage, John, across the way here, across the studio, it's I'm debt-free. Yes, free from debt, but I always lock in on the free part because they're now free to pursue that notion that the stoics made famous and Thomas Jefferson borrowed it. The pursuit of happiness. Your pursuit is different than my pursuit. There's got to be freedom to pursue that, and that's to live in the woods by yourself if you want to, or live in your favorite cultured neighborhood that's just all whatever. The point is- Have a place to make memories with your family.

That's it.

That's what this is about. Aaron, we're proud of you. My goodness, you don't need permission at all. You don't answer to anyone.

Good on you, man.

Wow. Fantastic stuff. That's the dream right there. By the way, it's not uniquely American. That is just the human dream we just heard. It's fantastic stuff. All right, we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So glad that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins us. Before we get back to the phones, our question of the day comes from Liz in Alabama.

Liz asks, I've been married for three years. My husband has a history of making large impulse buys. Two weeks before our wedding, he bought a new pickup truck on a whim, and since then, he's made several smaller impulse buys like hunting equipment. Recently, we had a disagreement because we had started to put some money away each month to eventually purchase some land, and he approached me about buying a membership to a golf club. This would deplete the money we have saved and add a monthly membership payment to our expenses. I'm labeled as the bad guy and made to feel guilty when I give a firm no to things. We've had discussions about impulse buying, and I have tried very hard to make him stick to a budget so that we can continue saving for land while paying off debt. And planning for children in the next few years. Do you have any advice for dealing with a situation like this? Oh, jeez.

He's just a big old boy. Yeah. How big a boy are you?

He's a toddler in a grown man's body. Yeah. That's frustrating, Ken.

What do you think, man? Well, we have to retreat back to the budget discussion. You have a bigger problem going on, and I'm sure you can speak to his behavior thing. But I think in her situation, it's her husband. She can't be his counselor, his therapist. She's got to be his wife. I think in this case, it's reminding him of the commitment that we made to the budget to actually say, We're going to buy some land. That's a part of our dream, whatever that equation is that they've laid out, the fact that they want kids, what's that going to look like? She has to hold him to this shared vision that they've at least talked about, and it appears that he's agreed to. I think that's the advice I'd give, is go back there and go, Hey, listen, I'm actually I'm not anti-golf club. I'm not anti-hunting. I'm not anti any of these things. But each of these things is requiring financial resources. We have a limited pool. I'm not trying to be... I feel like I'm I'm going to cross like this. I would just really own it and share the heart here. I would hope that he could at least see and feel her safety issue there around money and go, I'm making my wife feel very unsafe.

When I put as the adult, and I'm going to act like a child. He has a history of making large impulse buys. He's a toddler. That's what toddlers do. That's what children do. You nailed it. I think sitting down and saying, I'm losing respect for you because you are making me responsible for all of our family's future. When I said I do, and you said you do, we decided we're going to do this together. It's not my job to be your mother. I want to add one more thing. Liz, it's going to sound like I'm defending him. I'm not in any way, but there is a transformation that happens, and he may have to practice some new behaviors. He maybe has always been impulsive. That's just the way he rolls. He's been married for three years. He has got to learn how being a teammate works. He might say, Hey, I need you to call me out when you see it. You get to choose. If you would take that role on, you get to choose to not feel guilty. Just because he's like, Oh, yeah. Okay, I totally forgot. Because somebody at work was like, Hey, I got a golf membership.

I'd love for you to join us. It's going to help your Shared. He comes home all excited. You are the reminder, because that's the role you took on. Hey, remember, we got this shared vision. Okay, you're right. Don't feel guilty over that. That's your commitment. Then if you ask him, Don't ever bring another thing ever to this house. Well, that's going to shut him down. We're going to do this thing together. If you agree, you're right, I'm going to walk alongside you. As you learn to grow up and you do it really fast, I'm going to choose to not feel guilty when I uphold the thing that we agreed on. Hopefully, he'll carry his share of the burden as well. Yeah. Wow.

Tough stuff, but it can be done. But you got to draw some lines in the sand and appreciate the question. All right, let's go to Fairmont, Minnesota, and Eric is there. Eric, how can we help?

Hey, thanks. A long-time listener to the Dave Ramsey Show. My wife and I are in a tough spot here, and we need some advice. Big believers of Dave Ramsey's principles. To make a long story short, our son, who's three, may be ineligible for insurance later in life based on some things we're going to have to have done soon. We do have some life insurance for him now, mostly basically a burial policy. But based on some findings, the doctors have found may be ineligible for insurance later on in life. We are looking to see if we should get some additional life insurance for him. If so, what's the best product to get? Because, again, we're thinking about 30, 40 years down the road for him if need be. Okay.

I'm sorry you're going through this. What's happening? Do I hear you properly that they do expect a 30 to 40 year lifespan and beyond? Is that what you're hearing? That's what this would be for is to buy it now and try to fund it now because he won't be eligible for it as he gets older. Is that what's going on?

We don't know. We don't have appointments scheduled, but we need to make some appointments to get him in to see what's going on. He basically broke his leg. They saw some spots on his bones, and they did a full body X-ray and found lots of spots. They've said it could be one of two things. One could be 10% chance of cancer later in life. The other could be 100% chance, but they don't know until they do some genetic testing. The insurance companies we currently have, Life Insurance Group, said that if we move forward with this testing, he could be ineligible, depending on what the results are, he could be eligible for life insurance down the road. We wanted to We do what to do. We do have a $20,000 writer on our term policy for him. We also have a paid-up, a whole life policy, a $15,000 policy on him. But obviously, 30, 40 years from now, assuming he lives that long. It's not going to be enough insurance, and he just may not be eligible.

Okay.

I'm going to keep my opinions on life insurance companies to myself because it's disgusting.

No, okay. I'll say it because it's disgusting. The very fact that what What's the point of having insurance if life insurance won't actually take care of it? It's just the biggest racket.

Anyway. Let me ask you this, Eric. What's the purpose of life insurance? Why do you and I have life insurance on ourselves?

It's basically so that if something happens to me, it is to replace an income for my family. That's right. It's a big thing.

I think you have probably done what I would do and gone to Defcon 1 worst case scenario. That's right. Because as a dad, when somebody tells you your three-year-old may have fill in the blank, we instantly want to solve it and fix it and cover every variable as quickly as we can. We way into the future. The scientific or the pathology there is called anxiety. We're trying to solve things in the future that haven't even happened yet. Can I speak real frank? I would much rather be doing this in person, but can I just speak super frank?

Sure.

If he is given a diagnosis of 20 or 30 years and he passes away as a 20 or 30-year-old young man, he won't need life insurance. Sure. If he is He's given a, Okay, this is actually cancer, and we can cure it, and you're going to have a long life, a 60 or 70 years old, he may need to know as a young man, I'm not eligible for this, so I'm going to have to live differently. I'm going to have to plan and save differently because this particular thing isn't going to be… But he's got a 60-year runway if he actually needs it at that point. You see what I'm saying?

That's right. Practically speaking here, just jumping in real quick, Eric, you don't have to do any of this. I agree with John. But if you had the money and you the margin, it would be better off starting a mutual fund for him now that he eventually takes over. That's becoming self-insured. Make sense? So that if you teach this boy how to invest, how to save, stay out of debt, that to me takes care of this, just on a practical note.

I've worked with parents, with children with special needs for my whole career. One of the things they do early on when a young child has special needs is they say, Here's how the world is going to work for you in your particular situation. Begin teaching that way. What Ken just said is, why is if when your three-year-old becomes five or six or seven or eight or nine and you say, Hey, here's the set of cards you were dealt. I opened a mutual fund for you. We're going to start putting this much in it for the rest of your life because this is what you're going to leave to your family down the road. That's going to be your responsibility as your dad. But I want to challenge you to stay present. That's right. Stay with your three-year-old little boy and your wife right now in this moment and let those things unfurl Unferal as they unfurl. Let those tests talk to you as they come out. Don't project into the future and try to solve future problems.

It may be 10% that he develops something later, but it's 90% that he won't. That's what I'm hanging on to. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win in your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney is with me. I'm Ken Coleman. Just a fun shout out. We got a great group of people in the lobby watching the show today. You can always join us here in the lobby, watch the show. We love meeting folks from all around the country. Big contingent from Boise today, I've noticed. By the way, I also was instructed that you don't say Boisey, it's Boisey with, I guess, the soft S on that. So there you go. All right, Jennifer's up next in Finley, Ohio. Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I was just working on our baby steps. My husband and I have finished paying off our debt, but I'm wondering what happens if you're a cosigner on a loan, if that's included in your snowball, or if we can officially move on to step three.

What's the agreement you made with your kid?

It was that he was going to be paying it. Obviously, we did not find all of these solutions on how not to have student loan debt before he went to school. But so it's expected that he's going to pay it. I just don't know if that should be our next debt that we focus on or if we can move on and get out of that debt part of it.

Well, you just answered your own question, didn't you, Jennifer?

Well, what if he doesn't pay? I guess maybe that's where I'm feeling stuck because- Do you think he's not going to pay? If he doesn't, I don't think he's the most responsible child of my children.

How How much did you sign for?

It's about $25,000. How old is he? He's 22. He graduated in December. He has not found his real college job yet. So I'm looking for that.

Is he living with you? But he's not. Are you still funding his life?

I am not.

Has there been a conversation about this? I'm sorry. Has there been a conversation between you dad with him about, Hey, congrats, buddy. You got out of school. What's that repayment plan look like? What's the conversation been?

Yeah, he's very wishy-washy about it. He I was like, Yeah, I know, but he doesn't make any plans. Obviously, since he's just gotten out of school, nothing has technically been due yet. You get this six-month grace where he should be paying it anyways. I'm just concerned I'm concerned that we're getting farther and farther away, and now we're going to be on the hook for this money.

All of those things are correct.

I guess I'm just wondering. Like I said, we have everything paid except our house.

Can you write a check for $25,000 right now?

No.

How long would it take you to pay that off?

That would probably take It would take us a while because our income and our expenses, we're still trying to get more income. We're working on that, too, but that would probably take us a while.

You're right on every count. You signed for somebody that you knew didn't have integrity and you felt bad as a mom for whatever reason or a dad or whoever signed for it. You all felt some parent guilt and some this and some that. Maybe he'll go to college and maybe he'll learn. You kept signing because you have do that every year, and you kept signing. That chicken has just come home to roost, and you're on the hook for it. It's both and. You can sit down and have a conversation with him and say, What's your plan? He goes, Oh, well, you don't have a lot of skin in that game, right? Because he's an adult, and he's living out in the world now. Here's what I'm… He, as a 21-year-old, is burning his relationship with his parents, and he doesn't even realize it.

He definitely He takes advantage of it.

I know that. But he's been taking advantage of you guys your whole life because you all have led him. Fair? Absolutely. Yes. It's one of those- He makes a lot of excuses for him. I mean, yeah. If you had 25 grand, I'd probably tell you, just pay the stupid thing off and have your lesson learned and never give him another penny as long as he lives. You all don't have that. The reality is you're all are going to have to put on your debt snowball, probably.

Yeah. I got to jump in here. Or let it go to default. I think you've had too nice of conversation. It feels like you've had the same conversation that you had with this kid this whole life. Is that true?

I would say I'm definitely more of the mother hen, and my husband's definitely more of put the ax down and cut him off. Then I feel like I make up for that by being extra nice because I feel bad.

You have to stop. My point is, I think that's a long-winded yes. You haven't had a come to Jesus conversation with this kid, have you? That would be a correct statement. Okay. Does your husband want have it since it sounds like he's the guy who goes that direction?

He definitely would be the one that would cut him off and not even look back. Then let him do it.

It's his strength. Let's just be honest. You're not wrong. He's not right. I'm just calling this out that he's bent that way. That's how he is. So you got to go, Oh, I need to go hang out with my girlfriends and do something while he has the heart. I got to remove myself from the vicinity. I can't even be in proximity because I don't want to come as mother hen and stop it. You got to say to your husband, I've blown it here, and I'm taking responsibility for how I've done this. I need you to be the heavy here. If he's willing to be the heavy, John, and you tell me if I'm wrong, but this is what I would do, the heavy conversation would be, It's not happening. We aren't going to pay this. You are going to pay this. We just signed up to back you up. You agreed that you were going to pay it. I'm not paying this. Now, we know that you're culpable for it, but again, we're not having reasonable conversations with immature 22-year-olds.

So just be real. The only thing I'll add to that is I'll take Ken one step further. Your husband's not right. You're not I'm not going to say I'm wrong. I think you are. I think you've seen- I meant your personality type. Yeah, you've been bailing him out, and this is what happens, right?

Yeah, no question.

How come you continue to do that?

Because I feel like he never gets a fair shake, and so I make excuses for him a lot.

Oh, he's had a tough journey.

How has he not got a fair shake?

I feel like he's always been in a situation where something has happened to him, and most of it probably is on him, but I don't see it that way in the moment. Then I make excuses like, Oh, well, he should have known better, but he didn't know this time, so I'll help him do this, or he should have made a better decision, but now he'll know for next time. But it's a I mean, it's a lifetime of learned behavior. It's just really I feel very protective over him.

Here's the analogy I'd like to use. For his whole life, he's gone into the weight room of life, and mom has run in there and taking all the weight off the bar. He's been lifting his whole life. Now, when the world is looking at him, about to hit him in the mouth like it does to all of us, he doesn't have any strength because mom's taking all the weight off the bar. At some point, You have to let him get strong in the weight room, and it's just hard.

I'm going to add something to this.

I think it's the heart of letting him fail because you don't like to see your kid fail. That's right.

It is. But it's the greatest gift for him right now.

Jennifer, I'm going to throw something in here. This is just my personal opinion. If I were you, I'm going to amend what I said earlier. I think you both need to sit down with him, but I think you start the conversation, and I think you've got to look him in the eye and apologize for what you have done. I really think it might wake wake him up. I'm believing that it's going to wake him up. What I mean is you apologize and say there are many times, and you walk through as much as you want to what you just do with John and I and said, I did this, I did this, I did this, I did this.

I bailed you out. I bailed you out. I bailed you out.

I bailed you out. I think you have to take responsibility. Let him see the emotion because I suspect there'll be some emotion. I would confess that to that boy. Then I'd shut up and I'd have your husband come in and be the heavy on this deal. I think this is a bit of a confrontation. It doesn't have to be ugly. I don't mean confrontation in the emotion as much as just the stark reality.

It's his reality.

Life changes today for you, son. Correct.

Do you still pay a cell phone bill or his gas or anything like that?

A cell phone, yes. Nothing else.

That needs to go to- That ends. That ends.

Oh, yeah. Two bandaids.

He grows up. I would probably give him 30 days because you've given him 21 years. I'd give him 30 days or 60 days, and then he's on his He's on his own. You hate me. You don't love me. I can't believe you. No, we do love you. We love you so much. We're going to let you go.

It's going to be hard, Jennifer. Maybe the hardest conversation you ever have, but I think there's a breakthrough on the other side of this, but you got to own your part to him so he knows he's not the bad guy, that this is a new way of living. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollar is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go. Just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey so you always know your next right step. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Dr. John DeLuca, Tony is with me, and we are here for you. 888-825-5225. The best way to make the most of your money is always going to be by creating and sticking to a monthly budget.

It's just as our friend John Maxwell has said, Telling your money what to do. People who win with money, they know what their money is doing, and they know why it's doing it. Every dollar makes this very simple. It is our system. It is our product. We're proud of it because it helps so many people plan the spending, track expenses, save for what matters most of you. It's all an easy-to-use app that fits into your lifestyle. You can keep a pulse on spending to make progress on your money goals. No matter where you are in the baby steps, download every dollar for free. Right now in the App Store or Google Play today. That's every dollar. Go get it right now. All right, let's go to Miami, Florida. Tara is there. Tara, how can we help?

Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. You bet. Awesome. I'm 44. I'm a single mom. I have a great career, great job. I'm just drowning in debt.

Tell me about the great career and job real quick. What are you making?

I'm making about 95. I'm a paralegal. I work for a nationwide firm that does sexual abuse, so my job has purpose, and I do love it. Okay, great.

Keep going.

Since 2021, the market down Here in South Florida has gotten a little saturated, and my rent has doubled in price. I'm just not making due. I clear about three grand every two weeks, and my rent is 2,800. I have an emergency fund. I have an investment account. I have, obviously, a 401k. I have life insurance, but I had to stop putting in the investment account because it's not adding up. I have now medical debt due to an accident, my car loan, and it seems like I keep having to live off my credit card.

Are you familiar with our Baby Step process? Baby Step 1, 2, 3, 4? Does that ring a bell to you?

I've never taken financial peace to university, but I am familiar with Dave Ramsey's financial ways.

Just want to set this real quick because it's the answer to how we start to walk you out of this. We want to walk with you. You said you have an emergency fund. That's baby step three for us. Baby, step one is to get $1,000 in a savings account as a starter emergency fund. Is that what you were referring to, just $1,000? Or do you have more than that?

I have $2,000 in a CD.

Okay. That's what you consider your emergency fund? Yes, sir. Okay. We want the money in a savings account, and it is $1,000. As scary as that may seem, we want to get that $2,000 down to $1,000 in an emergency fund that is in the form of a savings account. Baby Step Two is we begin to list out all of your debts, and we go smallest to largest, and those are the ones that we attack. In this situation, all cash that you have outside of That $1,000 is going to go to that first debt, and we begin to start to attack the debts. You're with me so far?

Yes. What if you don't have enough money at this time to even- I'm getting there.get there?

I'm getting there. But one of the things we would have you do is stop investing in your 401k. Now, what is that every check?

About two something. I think it's either 240 or $210. I haven't looked it up.

All right, let's just round it down to $200 for a simple math. Okay, so that's $400 a month we just found, correct?

Okay.

I mean, no, not okay. Do you understand what I'm walking you through?

Yes, I do understand what you're walking me through.

Because we call investing 15% That's the center of your income, that's Baby Step 4. Baby Step 2 is where we are right now, okay? We've got to find extra money. We also have to cut expenses. In Miami, first thing I'm thinking is your biggest expense every month is your rent, correct? Yes, sir. All right. What other debts do you have?

I have my car, which is around probably 11 right now. I have medical, which is about eight, student loans, and then credit cards is less than eight. Okay.

How many credit cards?

I'm down to two. Okay.

The way we would teach you is, and again, we're going to… By the way, you're a single mom, and You're a hero. At the end of this call, John and I are going to keep coaching you here. At the end of this call, I want you to know we're going to get you set up with one of our financial coaches, okay? We're going to put that on us. We're going to take care of that for you. At least one session where a coach can get really in the nitty-gritty with you, okay?

We'll also put you through financial peace. University will take care of it. That's right.

Those are our two gifts to you. You're not walking away with this phone call alone, okay?

Thank you. All right.

Now, here's what I want you to understand. We have got to fix your expenses because your income is pretty good, and it looks like you've got a great situation for growth. The issue is we've got credit cards and we've got rent that's way too high for your income, correct? Yes. All right. Do you have any extra time at all? I know you're a single mom. Do you have any extra time at all to pick up maybe some paralegal stuff on the side?

Anything like that? I have, sir. I put myself on LinkedIn, Fever, Upwork. I've also tried outside stuff like Uber, DoorDash, Walking Other Dogs on Wag, I also volunteer for a company called Four Kids. It's my passion. They work with foster kids, and I've asked them to hire me part-time. I'm definitely looking for outside work. I just haven't gotten it yet.

We'll just go get something. We're not looking for work that we need to really impress people. We're just looking for work we can do. If you're working 20 hours a week at a Walmart, $17 an hour, whatever. My point is, you need to get serious about budgeting your time. Whatever time you have that can be put towards making money, go get the lowest hanging fruit for the most amount of hourly wage. Do you understand what I'm saying? We just got to get some more income in. Could you do a roommate?

No. My son just turned 13, and he really needs his own room. My apartment's pretty small, so it's only in two, two.

Could you move out of the area and still be able to commute and not not have it suck the life out of you every day?

We've tried that. I got approved to buy, so we thought maybe a mortgage would be cheaper than the rent. But the issue down here is the assessment fees and the condo association.

Yeah, please don't buy a house. Do not buy a house. We can't afford to buy a house right now. Yeah.

We know that, but we thought it might be better than the rent.

Hey, Tara, can I ask you just a personal question that has nothing to do with money? Of course. You're a court reporter? I'm a paralegal. A paralegal? Okay, paralegal. You work with sexual abuse cases?

Yes, sir. Okay.

There's something called secondary traumatic stress, which is super, super real. I've written on it. I've presented on it. I get it. That's your day-to-day. Every day, you go in and you go sit with hurting people. That's your world. That's your It's a gift of humanity, right?

That and the kids, yes, the foster kids.

Then you leave that and you go volunteer with foster kids.

Yes, sir.

Then you go look at your son, who's 13, and you say it's you and me, Bob, and it's ride or die, right? Is that right?

She's there.

Yes, sir. She's there.

I got you. You're okay. You're okay.

You're fine.

Here's what I hear in your voice. Ken is pumping you up, and he's giving you the path, and you're so exhausted, and your soul is heavy, right?

Yes.

Okay. I want you to hear us. We love you, and you're going to have to take a break from the foster care thing for a while. Your soul can't handle that much pain while you're also trying to get yourself to a safe and stable place, and the world needs more of you, but it can only take what you can give, and you can't give what you don't have. Right now, you don't have peace. Okay? So I want you to take a break from that incredible work you're doing and keep doing your day-to-day job. The world needs you, but I want you to get some peace in your life so that you can go get those jobs, so that you can get this debt paid off, and then you can be free, and then you're going to be reckless with how you can help people moving forward. Hang on the line. We're going to get you squared away with these free gifts, okay?

We love you. We believe in you, Tara. Welcome to The Ranty Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your relationships, and win in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Cole, and Dr. John Baloney joins me, and we are together for you this hour. Let's get it started in Charlotte, North Carolina, where Justin has been waiting. Justin, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. I have a little bit of a career question. My wife and I are on Baby Step 4, 5, 6, trying to pay off our house. We got about $250,000 left on it. I make a good income at $425,000 a year. But I was just told by my boss a couple of days ago that we're doing our second round of layoffs, and the company, he can only tell me, has 9-12 months left. I don't know what happens after that. It could be something that save us. But my question is, do I ride the ship down? Because I've been told I'm one of the few that needs to stay or should stay, or do I go ahead and try to find something else? The big goal of ours, obviously, is to pay our house off. That's our major thing. So I'm wondering. And it feels like the right thing to do to stay, to help out. But what I don't want to do is short-change our family and call short of the goal.

Okay, so let me ask a question. Did you say that your boss told you the company's got 9-12 months left before it's done?

So he Basically, he told me that he could, quote, unquote, I'll guarantee my salary and bonus for the next 9-12 months without really knowing what's going to happen after that.

He'll guarantee his own?

No, actually, I think there's going to be quite a few cuts, I think.

I know. I'm sorry. The boss said he could only guarantee his own salary for the next 9:00 to 12:00. No.

I asked him how much longer we have, and we're a small, tight team, and he told me he could guarantee my salary and bonus. Oh, okay. All right. Okay.

All right. I'm sorry for… I just want to make sure I understand this. How many people in the company?

There's probably right now about 30. This next round is going to take us down to maybe half that.

Okay. I will tell you, if it were me, I'm sure John will weigh in on this as well. If it were me, I would not feel any sense of duty to go down with the ship. It's not your ship. I love loyalty. I really do. I'm not going to tell you that's a bad decision. I'm telling you, I would be starting today looking for opportunities to replace my 425,000. I would start today. Now, I could be fine with a both-and, meaning I'm going to start looking and I'm looking aggressively as though I've got to replace that in the next 30 days. That's how aggressive I would be. That's me personally. Then, as you see what the market bears, you could say to them, All right, if I got another company that says they want me and I can make a nice move, Maybe you ask for a 60-day start. Hey, instead of starting in two weeks, this is my current company. They're struggling. I'd like to be able to help them. You can try some creative things there to ease the burden of you leaving, but you are on a ship that's taking a lot of water It sounds to me like it is absolutely going down outside of a miracle.

I would just tell you that's not your responsibility. No matter how good they've been to you, no matter what they've done for you, you've got to do what's right for in a situation where you don't have any control over whether the company gets better or dies. Is that true?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I play a key role, but again, I'm not going to keep this place.

John, what do you think?

I mean, I'm already sending out applications for you while you're talking.

That's why I saw him. He applied for you three times.

Yeah, I've already applied seven jobs for you. This is why I called you guys. Here's the thing. Ken said it. You've worked really hard for them, and they've paid you an excellent wage for your work. That's the arrangement and that's the agreement. I think sometimes companies want to put the burden of, well, you owe us. It's like, well, no, I've been doing my job, and you've been paying me for my job. If your boss set you down and said, Hey, this thing's going down, and we're about to lay off 50% of our workforce. When you have a small company, those numbers sound a lot more dramatic. They're about to cut your company in half. If they did that and he said, I am literally on my hands and knees begging you to stay. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z for you because I know it's scary for you and your family. But that's not what he's doing. He's like, Bro, I need you, man. I need you. It's going to be... Bro, I need you is not going to pay your electric bill when this thing's out.

Here's the other thing I'd like to point out, John. Him saying, the boss saying, I can guarantee you 9-12 months. That doesn't feel like a guarantee.

He He might guarantee that.

He might change that tomorrow.

He did say that. He couldn't guarantee that, but that was likely the situation.

I know, but likely doesn't pay the bill.

Exactly. And so, listen, how much are you making again?

425.

What do you do?

I work for an investment company. I'm in their operations group.

How hard is it to get another investment job?

Well, that's the thing because over the last five years, I started as a construction manager and became a principal. I feel like a unicorn. So I think part of my question is, I could get a good income, I believe in myself, but I'm in a unique situation.

Okay, so let me ask you guys, how long have you been making 425?

I just got this notch up a few months ago.

What did you move from?

So I moved from probably about 375.

Okay. And what before that?

Well, that would have been probably 250.

Okay. Let's say it. That's about 150. Let's say this. Let's say you made 150, and somebody knocked on your door and said, Hey, for four years, you get to live outside of the matrix. You're going to get to go to some fancy meetings. We're going to pay you almost half a million dollars. Then when this is over, you're going to have to go find a new job and go back to Earth. You would have taken that deal every which way from Sunday, wouldn't For sure.

Okay.

Having some perspective on this, you scratched off a lottery ticket with a group of guys that clearly don't know how to do business because they're about to be over, right? Right. They paid you half a million dollars for the ride, for the last little leg of the ride. That's amazing. You've been able to pay off everything you own. You're hustling to pay off your house, which is you've changed your family's financial trajectory because you've been wise with your money. You don't have a bunch of Lamborghini's and Porsche's, do you? No. No. You've done great. If you go back to 175 grand, I see that as still winning in a really amazing way.

You see what I'm saying?

It won't be the remember those days. That's the way I look at my job right now. If Dave Ramsey had said, Hey, I want you to take five years off of your regular life, and I'm going to transform your life, and you and Ken are going to travel the country and speak and do all this cool stuff, and then you have to go back to the regular, I want to take that job all the time.

But that's also a worst-case Worst case scenario. Justin, you live in a really good market. Charlotte's a great city. It's really popping, great job market. You said you're a bit of a unicorn. I would spin that into all of those things that make you a self-described unicorn, show you multiple jumping off points. I'm going to give you my get clear assessment. I think it'd be fun for you to take just to validate who you really are and help you with some directions. I'm going to give you that with the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. That'll be helpful to you. But I would be moving quickly, like John said. I move quick. We both said that. We're like, Hey, let's go now. Let's look for stuff. Here's the deal. If it gives you nine more months or six more at that income, man, to John's point, gravy. But man, it's time to move on. Listen, they're doing you a favor, this boss, in the sense they haven't laid you off yet.

That was the guy of Integrity. He called you and said, This is ending.

Yeah. He was like, Hey, I got about this much time on the clock. He doesn't really know that, so I'd cut that in half. I'd say, You only have about six months to make a move, so I'd get after it pretty quick. Hang on the line. We'll get you the get clear assessment in the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. All right, quick break. John and I will be right back. Do not move. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, the Total Money Makeover 20th Anniversary Edition is now here. I believe the success of this book is all about the hero stories. People who felt overwhelmed and stuck until they found the least complicated money book they ever read and learned how to work the plan and actually build wealth.

Go to ramsey solutions.

Com/store to get the Total Money Makeover 20th anniversary edition and become one of the new Total Money Makeover heroes. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me. The phone number is 828-825-5225. Ramsey Trusted Pros shop the market and compare insurance quotes so you don't have to. Your pro will compare quotes, discounts, and bundling deals for you at no extra cost. Ramsey Trust and Pros will make sure you have all the coverage you need and nothing you don't need. Ramsey Trust and Pros are interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Do you have the right coverage that you need from your insurance based on your individual needs? Find out at ramsey solutions. Com/ coverage. That's ramsey solutions. Com/ coverage. Hey, can I just say something? Of course you can.

This is just a peak behind the Deloney home curtain. Uh-oh. We're buying a house, and I went through it the O. G. Way. I reached out to Churchill, and the main man, David Porter.

Took care of me.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Used a Ramsey-trusted real estate person because I have this weird thing about, if I'm going to keep saying this on the air over and over again. Right. She was amazing. Her name's Cassidy. She was amazing. Okay. The Xander team was amazing at shopping everything all over planet Earth to find the best deal.

You went through the Ramsey-trusted car wash?

I went through the Ramsey Trusted Car wash. I'm sitting here, a guy who defaults to being anxious about decisions. I got peace because I got David Porter, I got Valarion, I got Cassian. I got these experts in my court. It makes me feel good about looking across the country and saying, If you don't know where to turn and you get well-wound up like I do, here's a gang that will walk with you. These Ramsey Trusted Pros. They're good, and they're good for the Deloney family.

What I hear you say is that using Ramsey Trusted Pros in every area that we recommend will lead to a non-anxious life. Oh, my gosh. You see what I just did there?

You're the best.

Did you see what I did there? Is this an addition to your book? We just put a little appendix.

It's an appendix.

An appendix on the best-selling book, How to Live a Non-Anxious Life.

One day I'm building a non-anxious life. I'm going to be as good at the radio as you are.

Well, it was right over your left elbow. That's amazing. I was paying attention to you, and I saw a potential promo there. But in all honesty- That's why you're the pro.

That's what we're saying. But all to say is if you're working at the jury's out on the Ramsey Trusted Pros, they're incredible. Low anxiety. And they take care of it.

Yeah, it's good. That's a real thing, not just a shameful book promotion. Correct. But by the way, you're allowed to do that If it's not your own. As long as you do that for a colleague, it's considered okay. Don't do it for yourself, people. That's fair. For those of you who want to do this one day, jeez. All right, Ethan is up in Big Bear. Is this a place?

It's a place. It's Where a two-door thesis, MMA camp used to be up in Big Bear.

I love that you pulled that right out of your ear. Ethan is there in Big Bear, California, a place I'd like to go. Ethan, how can we help?

Hey, sir. It's a pleasure to be on to be on the show here. My uncle was the one that got me onto your program. So I'm 23. I'm currently on Baby Step 3D. Here with my wife, too, we have a question. We're looking to buy a house, but we're ready to do it. We've already been approved for a mortgage and everything. We found a house we really like, but I have two small questions. One was, I don't know if I should give up the rent that I'm at currently. We have a pretty decent house, and it's right off the cliff, and it's only about $500 a month. I'm not sure if it'd be worth it to give up the place that we have now for a house, which is going to be about $2,000, $2,100. The house we're putting an offer on, it's 200 grand less than what it's actually worth. It just needs to work. But I'm at the tipping point whether we should make this swivel point to our next journey in buying a house, or should we wait a little bit? Am I doing this too young? All right.

Slow down. Slow down a little bit. Slow down. There you go. You're excited and you've done very, very well.

It's that low oxygen up there in Big Bear, man.

That's right. Did I hear you say the rental house is on a cliff?

Yeah, not like the house about to fall down. It's about 75 feet away from the cliff.

Oh, no, I knew it wasn't falling over, but it sounds like you got a great view. There's a little bit of that going on, too, huh?

Mm-hmm, that's correct.

All right. Here's the deal. What is your income, combined income or solo income?

Combined income this year, it's going to be about 140,000.

140,000. How much do you have saved for this house? Down payment.

Down payment, we're looking to put down 5%. I've already have my emergency fund and everything. Okay.

You have no debt at all? No debt at all. You said the house purchase price was what? 200 or was it a little bit more than that?

It was 275.

275. So quick math on that. So you're looking at about what? 13, $14,000 down payment?

Yeah, That's correct. Okay.

And what will your monthly payment be?

It'll be just around 2,000 a month.

Okay. And your take home is what? About 10?

Yeah, just around 10. I'm a 1099, so I try to be really conservative with my money. Okay.

What do you do?

I have two jobs. I'm a very part-time construction job, and then I also do solar as Okay.

Well, John, I want to bring you in here. The concern I have, he's right there in our ratio that we teach. I'll let you take that. But I'm a little concerned that it's a house that needs a lot of work. It's a good deal, but it's also half of what he said. That scares me to death because I know what it's like when you buy a fancy house and problems happen with fancy houses.

Well, and you got a guy that you know how to do this work yourself, right, Ethan?

That's correct, yeah. It's mainly drywall, paint, flooring. Sure.

Oh, okay.

Can I just tell you what I would do if it was me? You fall within our ratio, so we're going to stamp it. If you want to buy this house, go buy this house. Okay? You're 23, is that right? Yeah. Okay. I'm telling you, if I was a 23-year-old 1099 guy who is working jobs over here and jobs over there, I would not shackling myself to a $275,000 fixer upper just yet. Not when a Especially. Now, if you had $2,000 worth of rent, but if you look at what you'll... Just imagine this, the $1,500 a month gap between your $2,000 a month payment and your $500, if you just save that $1,500 a month and put it in a pretend house payment fund. At the end of this year, how much money is that?

It's got to be at least 13, I believe.

It's more than that. It's way more than that. It's 1,500 a month. You got 12,000, you got 6, so- It's $18,000. $18,000 you're going to put in there.

You see what I'm saying? And suddenly, you got 18 plus 13. If you wait one year, in every year after this. We buy houses because they appreciate. You just found yourself in a unicorn stable with $500 rent in an amazing house at a young age. I love the fact that you're out there hustling. I'm hoping that this leads to either you starting your own shop, and then you get your feet underneath you, and you've got your own business, and you've got a reputation, and you're crushing it, and you don't need a 1099 from other people. That's my goal. So I would love for you to be 26 and have $100,000 cash in the bank, and then you go buy a fixer upper in Big Bear, and it's game on. Do you see what I'm saying?

I understand, yeah. I completely agree with you. The reason why it's so low, right now it's at 325, but they're willing to take our 275 offer. It's a foreclosure, so it assessed for 445.

You got it. Let me promise you, if you're in the foreclosure game, A, it's always got stuff that you don't know. If you're a guy that can fix stuff, there's always going to be a foreclosure for you to go pick up for a steal.

Always. Ethan, I'm with John on this. I'd sit tight. You're young. You got a great view. At five, I would stack cash.

Yeah, I would force you and your wife to practice saving $2,000 a month, and then you put $500 towards your rent, and that $1,500, we're going to have a We have this goal that this time next year, we have $18,000 more in cash in a high-yield savings account. And then let's reassess. And then the next year, let's do it again. Next year, let's do it again.

I agree. Is that fair? I like it.

Yeah. Do I have time for another quick question?

You do not.

We're running to break. Sorry, brother.

Sorry, buddy.

I want you to know, as two older guys who are down the road, the world is yours, my friend. You're going to be able to take it all because you're a hard worker and you're a good man and you're thoughtful about what comes next. Good for you, man. Yeah.

Stay the course, Ethan. Enjoy the view and that low rent. That's our advice. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling.

They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day.

Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at ramsey solutions. Com/agent. Ramsey solutions. Com/agent.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Aloni joins me, and we are here for you. Let's go to Austin, Texas, and Walter is joining us there. Walter, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going, guys? Good. How are you? I can't complain. I'm on baby step six.

Hey. Excellent. Well done, sir. Let's not just move by that too quickly. How long did it take you to get there?

Well, I'm 34. Wow. About 34 years, I guess.

Okay, I see what you did there.

Reason for my call. I've been a police officer for about eight years now, and it's been really good for my family financially, but everything else has been really difficult. It's taken a lot of toll on my family, on myself, both mentally and physically. I'm concerned for my safety every day. I'm concerned for my family safety sometimes. I'm starting to think maybe it might be time for a career exchange.

I grew up in the home of a police officer. I know that world. I remember my mom asking me as I went off to college, Please don't do that, because every day my husband went to work and I didn't know if he was going to come home. I got that. I got it through and through, man. I spent my career walking alongside you guys. What do you think you want to do?

When I was in the army, I was a crane operator. When I got out of the army, I worked in logistics for a pretty large company. It was a good job, but I was young. I didn't really know my worth, and they were underpaying me. I didn't see a way upward. A friend of mine from the army became a police officer, and he was like, Oh, it's great. We get 300 hours of PTO a year. You get a pension. I was like, Cool. Sign me up.

He left out the part where people try to kill you, people hate you, they spit on you.

Yeah, been through all of that. I got an offer from a friend of mine who works for a security technology company to do project management. I looked into it. I had a lunch meeting with his director. I think it went really well. My biggest concern is, as a government employee, I have civil I have a service protection and I have a pension. Those are difficult to give up. I have a three-year-old and a seven-week-old, and I've got a mortgage. But the pay increase from leaving would be significant, and the peace of mind for myself and my family would- All right, let's jump into the fear first, and then we'll talk about your future, okay?

The losing the pension and all of that stuff. You're talking the time you served up to this point, if you walk away now, you get nothing. Is that what I'm understanding?

I'm not vested until I hit 10 years. I get some money, and I get a thousand hours of PTO paid out. I think like 80%.

Okay. Then what else do you think you lose? You're talking about the government benefits, like the insurance stuff?

Our insurance is okay.

Then what else are you worried about if you walk away from the police force?

Civil Service protection. It's nice to know that I'm going to have a job pretty much no matter what.

Okay, so let me address what all of those right away. First of all, Walter, you're going to be fine. All right. I would not put my life in danger, keep walking through the stress and all of the things that led up to you calling us today, where you've already decided I need to walk from being a police officer. I wouldn't gut that out for two more years, all for a pension. You're going to make really good money, whatever it is that you do. By using our principles and investing and saving, you're going to be fine. You aren't doing anything stupid by walking away from something that has reached its end. It's killing you. It's killing you, and it may end up. Let's be really clear about that, okay? I'm going to show you a path forward, and we'll walk with you on this process. But you're not walking away from anything amazing, okay? You served, you protected, you did it well, and now it's time to move on. The project managing thing, did it light you up from an excitement standpoint of the day-to-day, or was it just exciting because of the pay bump?

No, it was actually really cool. They took me through their training facility where they trained the new technicians. I actually like working with technology and computers, and I enjoyed managing people. That was one of my favorite things to do in the army. As an NCO.

Perfect. Project managers, this is what I love about this, project management is an opportunity to do people and process work. It sounds like you did some logistics before and the technology piece and the leadership piece for the military. That's what I want you paying attention to. What can I do going forward that I can use my skillset? You've got some people skills. Sounds like you've got some process and logistics skills. How can I use that to do something I really, really enjoy, that talent to do something I enjoy. I think that's the key for you. If it sounded exciting to you and it combines some of the stuff that you're past up to this very point, you can say, I've been really good at this, Ken and John, and I've always enjoyed doing this. If we can see some evidence from your past work in future opportunities where you go, I know I like that work, and I know that I can knock that out. I know I've got the chops. That's a simple way of going, All right, now I see what my options are. Are you leaning towards this project management situation, or are you still kicking the tires on other things?

That would probably I think that would be the best fit for my skillset and what I like to do. Great. What's the income? They told me since I have never officially been a PM, they probably start me out at about 87 to 90.

Great. What do you make now as a police officer?

Not including overtime. I want to say about 76, 77.

It's a nice bump, but what's the future look like? You get into PM, and what does that look like?

My buddy who who works there, who's been trying to get me in as a senior PM there after four or five years, and he's already making 125. Come on.

I will tell you, John, that I believe that project managers have a great opportunity to go as high as the C-suite if they want to because of the collective skillset experience. As you keep growing, I just think project management is one of those versatile careers to set you up for executive leadership.

The call out I have for you, can I challenge you on one thing, Walter?

Yeah. Of course.

You're a guy that has... Have you been working nights or working days?

I worked nights for about four years. I'm on days now.

Okay. Are you working twelves or tens? Eights. Eights. I'm a detective. Wow. Okay, so you're a detective. I'll just- He'll make a great project manager. Yeah, you're going to make a great project manager. In fact, you're going to have to back it down about 30%. You're going to make everybody crazy. My dad was a detective. Trust me. Here's the deal. You're a veteran, correct? Compet veteran?

No, no, no. Okay. I serve, but I didn't deploy.

Okay. You're a veteran. You're a police officer who's been running nights, running days, running all sorts of ups and downs and sideways for the last 12, 15 years. Here's what I want you to hear me say clearly. You're going to take this new job, and Walter will go with you. If you need to go see a counselor to process some stuff you've seen and experienced. Please go do that. This new job will not save you. If your marriage is messy right now, you being home more might pour gasoline on that fire. If you're worried about the health and safety of your family, and you're watching the news all day, every day, and you just reached a boiling point, I need you to go talk to somebody because Walter is going to go with you to this new job. Okay? Yeah. A lot of guys get out of service jobs, and they think that that's going to fix them, realizing that it wasn't ever the job itself. It was, I'd created a world that was so chaotic and anxious, and then I tried to go do a service job, and it melted me from the inside out.

Dude, it is time for you to go. I hear it in your voice, go and go whole and do the work you know you got to do on yourself, on your marriage with your kids as you transition to this new role, and you're going to knock it out of the park, man.

Yeah, great advice there. Walter, thanks for serving country. Thank you for serving your local community. You're the best of us, and I think your best days are ahead, so go with confidence. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. From time to time, when we get a question, we don't feel like maybe we can handle by ourselves. We like to phone friend, and it's nice when your friend is George Campbell, a resident financial guru. We dialed him up, and he joined us from 20 feet away. This is a big honor. It's an honor to join Tweedledee and Tweedle PhD on the show to end it out in an hour. I like that.

It's to receive that. Here's the thing. You have to know about George is he works for hours on these little quips. It's all I have, John. It is all you have. It's fair.

All right. But first, we got to get to our scripture of the day, you two. I'll stop the sniping. All right, let's get around the Bible for a minute. Proverbs 29: 25. It is dangerous to be concerned with what others think of you. But if you trust the Lord, you're safe. That feels perfect right now. There you go, John. Our quote today from none other than the great philosopher, Fred Durst. Where are You get these quotes sometimes. I do not know. Who is the lead singer of Limp Biscuit, if you're curious. There you go. I think we all know why that quote is in there. It's for John. I know. To walk around with an ego is a bad thing. To have confidence in yourself is a great thing. Okay. Sometimes just got to keep rolling, rolling, rolling. I think that basically contradicts itself. But what else do you expect from Fred Durst? He probably wasn't even sober when he wrote that.

Number one, you just got to have faith, the faith of faith, Ken.

George Michael. I can't even. I'm with you there. Okay, let's get to the phones. Rusty is joining us now in Dallas, Texas. Rusty, how can George, John, and maybe me help you?

You can be ringing out there. Yes, sir.

Can you hear me? We can. Go for it, Rusty. What's up?

I've been wrestling with something that would help really shorten, I say really, but would shorten my baby step number two. I have no credit card debt. I have one I made off vehicle and I owe on another vehicle about 27,000. It's worth about 22. I've got two student loans. One's about 9,300, the other is at about 12,000. Where I'm getting at is if I got rid of this other car that I'm upside down on, I could shorten my debt payoff time from about 16 months down to six. Do you think that's worth it?

Why don't you sell Now- Do you have another car that you can drive. You don't need to go buy a new car after this?

Correct. I mean, I've got a stay at home mom, a wife and kid at home. Okay. That's why we have two vehicles.

You go down to one car, you'll survive for a while.

Is what you're Right.

How much do you have in savings?

Just following the baby steps. So a thousand bucks. A thousand bucks, yeah.

How quickly could you scrape together another five grand?

A couple of months.

Okay. That's one option.

A couple of months. Here's where I was going. Here's one option I had. So the vehicle I have that's paid off, it's worth about 18. So what if I get rid of both? I get a couple of cheap cars, and then I can completely pay off that 27?

Yeah, I mean, that would give you the cash today because you're underwater by five. And so subtract that from the 18 you sell it for, you have 13 to go buy you something else.

Right. I like that plan. I guess where I was getting at is we're talking a difference of 10 months, less than a year. Is that worth it? Because I'm going to be going from lower mileage vehicles to something higher mileage. Well, get a pre-purchase inspection on it.

Don't make a bad purchase here. Get a pre-purchase inspection, choose a reliable brand like a Honda or Toyota, and you'll be all right. I mean, if I was in your shoes, John, I would be selling both and just bringing the car down, downgrading for a season. I think I would. I'd do the same thing. He makes an interesting case, though. It is like, okay, how much time and money is it actually going to save? Then there is the headache for... I've heard Dave say many times to somebody, You don't have to sell your car if you can knock it out pretty quickly. It's a quality car. I do think this is an interesting scenario. I could go 50/50 on this. I can sense his urgency to get out of this faster. If you're willing to sacrifice more- That's where I think there's difference of opinion.

I call it a soul tax. I would do this today because it sits on me different than it sits on Ken. Ken's like, No, I want a quality car that's going to get me from A to B. I don't think there's a right or wrong here, but I'm always going to solve for peace in my home. Ken would probably take the nicer car that's going to last longer.

Fake Ken. Actually, real Ken. I drove a Taurus that didn't have air conditioning for years because I just did not want to pay too much for a car. I'm with you on that. I mean, I've driven crap for a long time, so I would actually get rid of it. I could see both sides of it. Well, in 13K, it'll get you some decent car these days, even with the market. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Don't make me start looking cars up. It's my favorite thing to do on this show. Ken's favorite hobby. I think we're all in agreement here. You got options, Russ. You got options. I don't think there's a wrong or right, but I think we'd all get rid of the debt today. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Either you do it today, sell both cars, downgrade, or you come up with the difference in cash that you're underwater on to get rid of this payment in a few months. Yeah. That's what either- Does that sound good? Yeah. I think we've got a decision here of three, oh, majority decision.

The three of us never agree on anything. We don't.

This is incredible. That's amazing. George, you wrote the majority opinion, and we voted with you. I wish I had my gavel. We need our three gavels and the powdered wigs here because that was- You and the wigs. You always want to get a wig on. I just think of a judge. No, not any wig. The judge's wig, the one with all the pearls on it. That's fun.

The audience gets- Go out to sweet, Francis. All right.

Thank you. John is the adult in the room now. Wow. St. Louis, Missouri. Frances is waiting. Frances, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I was calling to get help settling collections. We're trying to go through the baby steps, and we've been hung up on this one that's in collection collections because they're not willing to work with me.

What do you owe in collections?

Well, it's from my college. On Credit Karma, it says that it's like 3,300. Then when I call them, they say it's 4,100. I don't know what that extra that they're tacking on is. I'm assuming commission or something for them.

Are there fees?

What was the original The original balance was 3,300.

Okay. You've called them and said, Hey, I'm willing to pay 3,300 to settle this? They said, No, you owe more?

Well, originally, when I first started talking to them, I didn't have the 33, so I offered them 15. Then they told me the 41. Then they said that they would- How old is this dad? They're like three and a half, four years old.

Okay. How much money do you have in the bank if you were to settle today?

We could settle today, technically. I'm being a little stubborn about it because the first time I called, they told me that they wouldn't take a check because I was like, I'm not giving you my debit card information. We have 64 in savings, so we're trying to settle this for the 15. Sixty-four?

Why haven't you paid your bills? Sixty-four thousand?

No, 6400.

Okay. Take it easy. I got it. I was like, What is going on? No, no, no, no.

Wow.

Here's the deal. Like John mentioned in the last call, You're paying a sole tax just to fight this thing every day. If they're truly unwilling, you owe 3,300, say, Listen, the original balance is 3,300. I don't know what Wacko fees you guys threw on here. I'm willing to pay you what I owed, and no more. That's your worst case. Best In case you go, Hey, I'll give you two grand.

Call it good today. I want you to tell them, I'm recording this call, and if you refuse to take my payment, then when you sue me and it goes to court, I'm going to play this recording because I tried to pay you, and you wouldn't take my money. You wouldn't take my money.

I like that. That's a pro move there. You're right, Francis. Don't give them access to your checking account. Don't give them a debit card. Give them a money order or cashier's check. Is this a college or a university, or is it some type of a trade school?

University.

What do you owe a university? I'm curious. That's why, because usually, if you owe money loans, pay the university, and you're paying the loan company or the federal government. What do you owe them for?

Well, I also have student loans. I have 5,500 in student loans. That's what I'm asking.

What do you owe the university?

Just for everything that my student loans. I didn't take loans out on everything.

Yeah, but a college doesn't loan you direct, do they?

No, it's from like… I don't remember what the loan company is, but I got my student loan, like Mojila or something like that.

It's not the college that you're dealing with.

It's some knuckled private loan.

That makes more sense.

The Collections is, it says it's from Southwest Baptist University. Wow.

I've never heard of them. Maybe they're in cahutes with the collection agency because they can get a cut of it or something. Who knows?

I'm fighting it, but worst case, be done with it. Just pay it.

Pay what you owe and move on with your life.

I'm a Baptist. We like getting paid. Good show, guys. John Deloney, George Campbell. I'm Kid Coleman. Thanks, James Childs. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr.

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