Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, resident PhD of counseling, is here to help you. If you have crazy people in your family and you have a question, he's here to help. He's my co-host today. Number one best-selling author multiple times over, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Brenda is in Detroit. Hi, Brenda. How are you?

Good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I go to Michigan State University, and I had a question about leasing. Last year, about October, my current apartment got us in a chokehold and said that we had to sign a lease for next year within about six hours or else we won't get the apartment and we can't live there. Now, their lease is about $250 cheaper, and we can't get any cheaper rate at all because we already signed.

Okay. How can we help?

I was wondering on what would be a good plan to go? I don't know if that's something that you could get a lawyer involved or if it's something that I should just try to get out of, get a sub leaser or what I should do because there's a lot of money. Why do you want to get out of the lease?a.

Lot of money. What's that? Why do you want to get out of the lease?

Because Because it's about $1,015 a month, and the new lease that they're offering is $799 a month, and that would be a lot different.

Well, they're not. You signed You signed up for $1,000 originally, and you knew that when you signed up. So the only thing that's pissing you off is they now rent the same apartment cheaper.

Yeah, it sounds about right. Okay.

It's I don't know why you would get a lawyer. It sounds like you just- There's no lawyer can help you, dude.

They didn't do anything wrong.

Well, I was wondering more on the part of where they told me that I had to sign it within six hours or that I won't be able to live there at all.

Well, that's not illegal. Maybe back then, it's not. You can put a deadline on a negotiation and say, I'm going to offer you this for six hours, and after that, I can't promise you you can stay here. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just If you felt like that was undue pressure or unreasonable, just don't sign it at the time. That would have been a possibility. If you feel like you're being mistreated, go somewhere else, in other words.

I think the only way they rip you off is if they said, You all sign it for a thousand bucks, and they charge you for $1,300.

Yeah, they tried to charge you more than you signed up for. Then they're rip you off. Now, what I would do is this. Rather than Without going in with the attitude that they did something wrong, I would just go into the manager's office in person and say, Hey, man, I'm a broke college student. This is a lot of money to me. Would you guys show us some mercy and reduce our existing lease to what you're currently selling for? Man, that would be a huge help because the difference is a big deal. Gosh, when we signed it last year, we had no idea, of course, we could get it for this or we would have waited. But Man, can you help us out here? But don't go in there acting like they did something wrong because, Brandon, honestly, I don't think they did anything wrong.

We actually did do that because it's me and three of my other roommates, and we did go in there and we talked to somebody They told us in person, they said, Yeah, we can actually get it down to that rate. Then they gave us a call back. The general manager gave us a call back about a half hour later and was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. Actually, we can't do that. You You guys already signed this other one for this rate. It was just a regular employee we talked to at the beginning. I don't know if his word has any weight to it.

No, he just misspoke. He just misspoke. No.

Okay. There's three of you splitting this $250 overcharge.

No, it's 1,015 per person.

Oh, okay. It was a $750 reduction you were asking Yeah, it sounds about right overall.

Total for the whole apartment.

Yeah. There's three people, right?

Four people.

So it's $1,000. $1,000 a month. That you were asking them to cut it? Yeah. Okay. I can imagine they didn't do that.

Yeah. But just imagine- Now they're death-proof.

If the marketplace, let's just pretend that they weren't crooks and they weren't trying to screw you. That they just simply thought, Hey, we have a really hot property here, and we're going to get people signed up. If you want to do it, we're going to put it on the market. If you don't want to sign, you got six hours to do that. Then they discover that they can't rent these apartments and they have to drop the prices on them in order to get them rented, instead of thinking maybe this was the plan all along. That's a possibility, actually.

I've worked in college housing for a long time, and the number of students who would say, Yeah, we're signing up, we're signing up, we're signing up, and then you start to see the attrition rates throughout the summer. What he's talking about happens all the time in college housing. Plans change, students don't come back, and suddenly you're faced with a bunch of empty beds that you weren't expecting, and you got to figure it out rate-wise because you can't have an empty bed. I've just experienced this buying a car, and then you look on an ad three months later and the car is cheaper. I can't go back to the dealer and get mad at them. It just is what it is, what it is. I think what you had to say, Dave, is the only All you can control here is your attitude, man. If you want to walk around looking how everybody's ripping you off, instead of going, Oh, man, those guys who waited are going to get a great deal. Maybe next time I might consider waiting, which, by the way, then it's going to sell out. The concert, you're going to wait for tickets until the last day, and the concert is going to sell out.

It's just the way life works sometimes.

Yeah. But no, Brandon, an attorney can't help you because nothing was done wrong here. I hate that you guys are paying more than market, but nothing was done Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. That is what we do here, and we help folks get control of everything going on out there. You can participate with us here. We could use your help, by the way, if you want to join us by clicking subscribe on the show, clicking follow on the show, share. If your platform you're on has a share button or just cut the link out and send it to somebody. Go listen to these folks over at the Ramsey show. They're helping people and it's fun and funny, and you wouldn't believe what some of the callers say and all that. Share it. Tell people about it. We appreciate it when you do. It helps everything. The Five-star reviews. We appreciate them. It makes a big difference. We know that a bunch of you are doing this because our numbers are through the roof. They are exponentially up in the last two years, particularly in the podcast and the YouTube But our radio ratings are up as well.

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Thanks for joining us, America. We're really glad you're here. If you are on Baby Step 4 or further, which means you're investing, you're out of debt, you have your emergency fund in place, you've lived like no one else. If you want to go on the Live Like No One Others Cruise, we'd love to have you. Let's do it. We're going to cruise, baby. We're going March 22nd of next year, and we're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, all the Ramsey personalities, plus Stephen Curtis Chapman, Dina Carter of Strawberry Wine, famous country music singer. A bunch of us going to be hanging out with you the entire week. The entire ship is devoted to Ramsey, and it's the Live Like No One Else Cruise. Now, this is not the cheapo Cruise. This is Holland, America. It's nice. I don't go on the cheapo cruises, and so you won't find me there otherwise. I'm coming. John's going to be there. My wife and all the Ramsey personalities will be with us. Of course, a bunch of Ramsey, and we'll be doing special things on the ship all week long and going to very cool places.

It's a way for you to celebrate the milestone of actually starting to win with your wealth building process. You can put down only a $600 deposit and hold your room. We are approaching a sellout. If you're going to go in March of '25, you need to get on the list right now. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/cruise for the Live Like No One Else Cruise. Darren is with us in Dallas. Hi, Darren. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, David. John, thank you guys Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Right now, I'm currently in Baby Step 3. I've just submitted the last payment for my last debt. As of last week, I'm debt-free. I make about $65,000 a year. It's just me, so single. But right now, I'm going through a bit of a career change. I'm 25 years old, and So the background information is I work at an airport, and I've been going through, talking to pilots and things like that, and speaking with a person that are recruiting. They have a program to where a career path program to where I can become a pilot with the airlines here. And pilots make pretty substantial income, and I'd like that for myself as well as being able to fly a plane. My question for you is, how do I balance saving up for emergency fund and for a future down payment on a house in retirement, as well as funding flight school and all other expenses that come along with it. How do I prioritize that? What's the best way to go about that? Any information at all would be helpful.

What do you make?

Currently, I make 65,000 a year.

Okay. You said that. I'm sorry. While you're doing all of this, they're not paying for any of it?

Part of the program is I have a degree, and my job is paying for the degree. I won't have to pay for the degree portion of it, but I will have to pay for the flight school. And that, talking with the flight school, all certifications, all total, should be probably around 50,000.

Okay. You're going to get $50,000. Let's just pretend that that's all we did. Where are you going to get the 50,000? Just out of the 65 income?

Well, just seeing how much I should save up or put that off or what's the best way to save up. I don't want to take out any loans and get back into debt.

No, I don't want you to either. I'm just saying if you save $25,000 a year, it takes two years to save up the money, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Okay. That's pretty strenuous on 65. I mean, that's living on nothing.

Yes, sir.

Yeah. How much debt have you paid off?

I paid off about 13,000.

How long did that take?

That, honestly, getting super serious about it took maybe a year, year and a half, less than that, just about year and a quarter.

Well, at the $13,000 a year rate, saving up 50,000 takes you five years, right?

Yes, sir.

You got to do better than that, don't Yeah, I get you. That's your basic math there. For sure, don't go in debt to go be a pilot, because the pilots you're talking to that are making a lot of money or pilots have been pilots a long time. The brand new pilots out of flight What does the school make about what you make.

Yes, sir. I have those figures of what I've talked to and what they- Yeah, they make about 65,000 flying for American Eagle. Yes, sir.

And little commuter The planes is what they're doing. That's who they put in there, it's the brand new kids. New kids on the block, baby, and that's what you'll be. It's going to be a while. You're not going to be making 200K coming out of the shoot. You know that, right?

Right, of course. Okay.

All right. You're going to spend 50,000 to make about what you make now? Yes, sir. At your entry level. That's what you're up against, and that's what you're going to have to think through here. That's why for sure, you don't borrow money on this because it would be super stupid to borrow money and do this in your situation. Yeah, you got to get your emergency fund in place, and then you start working your way through your education ideas.

I'm just still stuck on an industry that is struggling to get new pilots in the pipeline, having a degree requirement, but not helping out with the flight school, the actual training that we need to support. It's just everything's so backwards sometimes. It's hard for me to wrap my head around an emerging problem across so many fields, and everybody's going to how we solve problems 25 years ago to try to solve these new problems. It's frustrating.

Well, when they're If a shortage of pilots gets bad enough, they'll change it.

I just wish there were problems in the world that we could solve seeing them coming instead of waiting till we're hit and then change them.

That's called vision. Don't be pushy. So wild to me. Damian is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Damian. How are you?

Hello. Doing good. My question is, I got about 30,000 in debt My 401k has 46 in there. No.

I think I know.

No. Don't do it.

Just don't. That's what I was thinking because it's going to cost me more in taxes. I won't even be able to pay it all off, I thought.

Exactly. Exactly. You got a 10% penalty, plus you got your tax rate. It's like borrowing money at 30 or 40% interest to pay off your debt. That doesn't make sense at all.

See? That was an easy one.

Yeah, it was easy. What you've got to do is get your income up, your outgo down, and that's not easy. It's working a lot of hours, and that's not easy, and sacrificing, and that's not easy. Then you'll clear the debt, and then you'll look back and go, That was easier than I thought it was going to be. Matt's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Matt, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hello, Dave.

Hey, what's up?

Hey, I'm 64 years old. I'm going to retire in about four years. My wife and I have no debt other than our home. We have about $2.2 million in a 401k. We owe $300,000 on our home. Does it make sense? We would I like the peace of mind of being totally out of debt.

I'd write a check and pay it off today. You would? Yeah. You don't have any money that's not in the 401k?

Not enough to pay off the mortgage. Okay.

What do you have in non-retirement investments? Just have our emergency fund in a savings account. So you don't have any investments that aren't in your 401k?

No, sir.

Wow. Okay. That's weird for $2 million, but that's cool. I'll take it. Good job, by the way. Excellent job. 2.2 million in your 401k. You rocked it, man. You killed it.

Well, we did.

What's the house worth?

When it's paid off, it's 50.

Okay. So you're approaching a $3 million net worth at 60 something years old. Way to go. Proud of you. Yes, I would pay off my house today. Pay the taxes on the 401k. There's no penalty because you're over 59 and a half. So it's a different answer than the guy before for that reason. That's the difference. And he's got plenty of money to do that as well. This is the Ramsey Show. There aren't many places you can save hundreds of dollars a month and still give you great service, especially with health insurance. That's why Health Trust Financial is the only health insurance company Ramsey recommends. Health Trust Health Trust Financial objectively compares the top health insurance providers to meet your needs and budget. Remember, the service is free and there's no commitment. Go to healthtrustfinancial. Com. Healthtrustfinancial. Com. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Jim and Taylor are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you?

Doing great. Thank you for having us. Absolutely.

Where do you guys live?

We live in Glassborough, New Jersey, which is about 30 minutes south of Philadelphia.

Got you. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. Here to do a debt-free scream, how much did you pay off?

We paid off $133,536.81. Love it.

How long did that take? About 14 months. Wow. And your range of income during that time?

We started off at about $160,000, and through side hustles and overtime, got it up to about $197,000.

Cool. What debt was the $134? All student loans. All student loans.

Worth every penny. If not, I would not have met my beautiful wife.

There you go. There you go. Cool.

The stories we tell ourselves, right?

It took $134,000 in debt to find her. Way to go, guys. What changed 14 months ago? What was the... Makes you do the Ramsey stuff wide open? Because you guys went for it, man.

Yeah, well, it started probably six or seven years prior to that. I started listening to the radio, came across to your show, and all of the values and ideas I had about money, you guys had as well. But I just didn't have the plan to put all those values and ideas into place. I started learning more about the baby steps and why I should be saving money, why I should be out of debt, and started making some changes in my life. Started to pay off my car, intentionally saving for specific reasons. Then Taylor came along and we started dating. We started talking more about finances. Through the pandemic, we took FPU online. We started to do our own journeys and paid off our own cars. Then not too long after that, well, first off, I knew she was the one for me from the very beginning. We were in love pretty quickly. But then she said, This ring or this hand really should have something on it. It's getting a little bear. There should be something sparkly. I told her, I said, I'm not going to go into debt to pay for the ring.

I bet that was a romantic dinner.

I'm not going to have a car payment. She knew I was a little crazy and serious about this from the very beginning. We got engaged and we started talking more seriously about finances and got married and then decided this is what we need to do right from the beginning. We used all of the money we had from our wedding and put that and got us jumpstarted. Then we started to work for those 14 months, putting 5,000, 6,000 a month at the debt until it was done. Yeah.

Wow. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Way to go. Got to feel great.

Yeah, it feels real good. Awesome.

What do you do for a living? What are your degrees in?

I'm a nurse.

I'm a middle school social studies teacher.

That's so cool. What was the most productive money was, side hustle? I had the opportunity to take call.

I would do call every two weeks. That brought us in an extra thousand, probably.

Then I did a whole bunch of side hustles in the summer time being off as a teacher. I did Uber at the Jersey Shore. I taught summer school, and I made the banners that you see flying over the beach on the back of planes. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, that was a job from high school and from college. All of those side hustles couldn't come close to her overtime pay, but did what I could. Okay.

Good job. Ot when you're nursing is great. That's a big step, a giant step.

Taylor, you were in love with this guy.

Yeah.

Then he looks at you over dinner and says, Yeah, I'm not borrowing money for that ring.

He didn't say it like that.

I know, but that's exactly how he said it. I'm not going to have a car payment. So for everybody out there saying, I love him and I love this plan. The idea of being out of debt is cool, but my ring is going to look like this, and my husband's going to drive this. You're 14 months. You've been married for, how long? About two years? It'll be two years in October. Okay. So you've been married a little over a year and a half. And what would you tell that person on the other side of this? That ring size matters, especially first right out of the gate, and the cars, all that stuff.

I think don't look outward, look inward. Focus on yourself. You don't know what everyone else's finances look like. If you When you look outward, it's easy to be wrapped up in the, Oh, I'm not going on vacation there. I'm not doing that. But what does their account look like?

What does their credit look like? You don't want to look in.

That's very good. All right, you did it. You pay off $134,000 worth of debt, all student loans in 14 months in your first 18 months of marriage. Very impressive. Now, when somebody says, How did you do that? What do you tell them the keys to getting out of debt is?

Well, Dave, you asked this question every debt-free scream, and I've probably seen hundreds of them at this point. I was going to come in with something so profound, something that's going to leave the audience in awe that no one else has said. It's the same thing everybody else said. Have a plan and stick to the plan and work to make sure that plan comes to reality. There were times in the summer where three or four nights a week, I was away from Taylor as a newly married couple doing my side hustles because I stayed at my parents house, and so it was about an hour away. That was tough. We had to stick to the plan and to work to make sure it happened.

Just staying on the same page, things come up that you don't expect, don't budget for, and just learning how to pivot. Like, Okay, this happened.

How do we get back on track to keep everything in line?

Doing it together.

Yeah. Communication. Absolutely. So important.

Way to go, you Very proud of you guys. Thank you. Who was cheering you on? Oh, all of our family and friends.

It was funny.

All of our friends knew that we were doing this, so we would do BYOD. We'd bring our own dinner, and we'd all get together and have our dinners.

Instead of going out to a restaurant. Our family really helped out as well. Instead of gifts that we might want at Christmas and on birthdays, we'd get practical things, clothes and shoes, so we wouldn't have to spend that extra money so we could put more and more to the debt. We had a lot of people cheering us on.

Very cool.

You guys crushed it, man. I wish you could see us, two old guys, down the road, 20 years, 40 years of being married. You all knocked this thing out so quick, and you all got to overcome a challenge together, and you don't owe anybody anything this early in your marriage Which means you all just get to live wide open now. It's so wild.

It's mainly from Jim. He was my nerd, and I was definitely his free spirit, so I gave him a run sometimes.

But we did it.

Thanks both.

Yeah. Way to go, you all. Way to go. Excellent work. Good stuff. All right, it's Jim and Taylor, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. $134,000 paid off in 14 months, making $1,60-$197. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free. I I love it.

Man, that is fun. Very well done. Very well done, you guys. Excellent job. I tell you, like you said, when you can start out your marriage, overcoming an obstacle this big as your first order of business in marriage, it sets you up. It gives you relational confidence to take on everything else that comes.

Yeah, because it's not confidence. It's not Instagram confidence, just jawing. No, we did a thing. We did it together, and now we know, Oh, we can do hard stuff for a year, two years. We can do that.

Yeah, and we can do it together, and we can suffer together for a greater good, and we can get through this, and we can win.

Gosh, if every married couple could get the blessing of learning after two years in, that sentence, We can get through this. Whatever this is, We can get through this. We can figure out a way to get through this. Whatever life throws at you, my goodness, what a different world we live in, and they're already there. Nobody is going to tell that marriage what to do. Nobody's going to tell them what to do. No car company. Nobody's going to tell them what to do. They get to decide what comes next for them. I just think it's amazing.

It's freedom. It's freedom.

Freedom. No married couple has that anymore, Dave, and they do. Right out of the gate.

Pretty cool. That's almost romantic, considering he said no ring until I don't borrow money to buy them.

Oh, no, you can look at them. They're gross. They're super in love. It's just romance everywhere over here.

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Thanks for joining us, America. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Our question of the day comes from Tyler in Ohio.

Tyler writes, I just turned 24. I live with my mom, and I recently got out of prison. I have zero debt, but I have no direction in my life. I know being a felon is not holding me back from accomplishing my goals, and I'm not using that as an excuse. I have no investments, no stocks, no nothing. I don't know where to start, and I have zero guidance. I have a high school diploma, so I'm not a dropout. I just want to know what you would tell somebody in my position who is basically starting over. It's a good question, man. I'm going to assume that the felony that he has served his time, this is done, and he is able to... The particular felony that he has on his record now, he's able to go get a job. What I would start doing right now, I think what he needs to do more than anything is go work, work, work, and work. That might mean that he's got to start a law in business. That might mean he's got to start a business of his own. But I would just get to work and get to work and get to work.

I think you can sit down and spin and spin and spin, thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking. You're going to look up and be 25, be 26 and 27. If he was my friend, that's what I'd tell him. I'd say, You need to go get a job right now, start working. Then we'll start working on the mentoring and finding people in your life, but you're going to find those people as you are out being productive out in the world.

Yes, I completely agree. I'm trying to think. It's not a question that we… His situation is a bit unique in that he's got a felony, but basically, we all start over every morning. What do you do when you're starting over? What do you do at the beginning of the year for your New Year's resolution. Tyler, one of the things I've done throughout my entire life is I've studied people who became successful and also studied people who were the opposite, who didn't become successful. That starts pointing you towards several things. One thing it points you towards is you become who you hang around with. Start choosing a friend group of ambitious, go-getter, people who are going somewhere with their life type people, and that's who you run with. You don't run with a guy who gets off on Friday and smokes weed all weekend and tries to figure out how to not get back to work on Monday and end up anything but like him. You become who you hang around with. That's one thing. Choose your friends really careful. As a matter of fact, one piece of research says that over a course of a decade, you will earn within 15% of the average of your 10 closest friend's income.

If you hang around people making 100,000, you'll probably have a high tendency to make 100,000. Hang around people making a half million, you're going to have a high tendency to run around. If you have run around people make a minimum wage, you're going to end up making a minimum wage. Number one, be careful. Number two, read. Nonfiction books constantly about subjects that you want to get better at, whether it's success, whether it's marriage, maybe later on, marriage and parenting. Read books in the area of the profession that you choose to move towards. Number three, if you aim at nothing, as Exegular used to say, you'll hit it every time, so you need to have goals. You need to say, Okay, I'm 24. By the time I'm 30, I want to be doing X, Y, Z. And then what are the steps and the things you need to do to hit that goal? My friend Henry Cloud calls that your desired future. What is your desired future six years from today? And then what are the things you have to do to become that? What classes have to be taken? What do we do? All those kinds of things.

A great place to plug into people with integrity, people that are forward-thinking, people that are family-oriented is in a good church. Now, is everybody in a church good people? No, that's why they need to be in church, but they're not. Sometimes there's some bad people there like there's anywhere else. But it's a great place to get young men and old men in your life that are of quality, and disciple, and mentor, and develop the spiritual side of your life as well, your values that you base your life on. If you do those things, you're going to go a long way really, really fast. The starting point of that is exactly what John said. It's get a job, but then get another job, and then get another job, and then keep moving in the direction. What have you got to do? You got to go be an apprentice to do this? Have you got to take a certification class to do this? And then start moving in that direction. But something right now, if you think about being that person when you're 30, when you say that person and you know what that person is, I don't, your pulse rate changes, you get a little bit excited and a smile breaks out on your face.

Now go do that one. That's the one you need to go do? For me, when I was his age, I was going to be a real estate mogul. I wanted to be a big-time real estate guy. I wanted to own shopping centers and office buildings. I was going to be a commercial real estate guy. I started buying real estate at 22 years old. Now, I went broke and lost everything because I did it wrong because I was stupid. But the end of the story is I ended up owning a whole bunch of real estate. Now, today, although it's my second passion, not my primary, but at least it caused me to move in a direction that ultimately led me to this desk. It's cool stuff, Tyler. It's a good question.

It shows a lot of maturity. It does. I feel like he had some time of reflection when he's behind bars. This is stemming from a call I took this morning on my show, Dave. There's going to be things that Tyler runs up against, or I'll just tell you, Tyler Direct. There's things you're going to run up against. You're going to really be moving and shaken, and you're going to meet some people, and they're going to be impressed by your work. Let's say you start doing electrical work, and you keep moving and moving, and then your buddy is going to come take you out to lunch and say, I want you to come work for my company. Then you're going to get down the pipeline at the company, and then an HR director is going to flag your application because you have to check a box as I'm a felon, and it's going to get you dropped out of the process. I don't want you to beat up young Tyler. I don't want you to go back. I want you to dust your sandals off and go on to the next thing and say, All right, we all have a great week, and I appreciate the opportunity to move on with you.

The more you let these past decisions haunt you into the future, it's not going to help anything in the future. It's just going to drag on you.

What's the saying, You are not the worst thing you have done?

You're not the worst thing you've ever done. If that becomes your identity, no. That's not your identity. No. This will cost you some opportunities. Oh, yeah. It will.

Let's move on. I filed bankruptcy. That's right. Every time for the rest of my life that I fill out an application, and I don't fill out loan applications, but there's all kinds of things that come up. Have you ever filed bankruptcy?

You still have to click that box.

It doesn't say, Have you recently? It It doesn't say, Was it a decade ago? It said, Ever. So forever. I'm a bankrupt person. No, I'm not.

I'm a person that did that one time.

I'm a guy that filed bankruptcy a long time ago. There's nothing bankrupt about me. That's exactly right.

So don't let this become, you're not a felon.

No.

You're a guy that committed a felony. You paid your debt to society, and now you're back out there making a contribution. It's going to depend on you, though, to not let this thing haunt you forever.

Yeah, that's true. That's good. That's good. Yeah, you reset your identity, and you read your way, and you hang your way, who you hang with, and you get up and go to church on Sunday, and you work your tail off Monday through Saturday, and you read and read and read and read and read. Make it a goal to say how many books I've read, not how much Netflix I've binged. That will change your whole life. Because I've never met a successful person that said they were successful because as they knew every show on Netflix. Nope.

I do think I used to be really against this, Dave, and I've watched some of my friends who didn't read a lot, especially when they're in college, and with how ubiquitous audiobooks are now, now there's super no excuse because some people, it's hard to sit there and read through a book. But, man, you can put those headphones in and listen to a book and walk around your neighborhood.

Hey, let me ask you something. Yeah. I have a different experience when I read than when I use an audio book.

Much different.

It activates parts of my brain that the audio book doesn't activate.

I always read the highlighter. It's kinetic.

It's an actual neuroscience thing.

It is different, but something is better than nothing.

You need to do some above. That's right. Don't only do audiobooks.

That's right. But audiobooks are better than no books.

Better than Netflix. That's 100%. Sorry, Netflix. They're not our sponsor, can you tell? This is Dave Ramsey Show, The Ramsey Show from the Netflix studios. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host. The phone number here is 828-825-5225. We're here to help you and tell you the truth because we love you. Alex is in Columbus. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Good afternoon. How's everybody?

Great, man. How can we help?

All right. We've got an executor who is the youngest of three sons, all biologically related, and he has not put the house up for sale since he became the executor or had the will in his hands. He's incommunicado completely. Any relatives he has talked to in the past, they want to know something about the house, when you're going to sell it. He says, None of your business, just stay out of it. We're trying to- Who is this?

How are they kined to you?

He's my brother.

Okay. There's three brothers. Your youngest brother was appointed executor of the estate. The will, do you have the will?

No, he's got it locked up in a strong box in his basement.

Do you know what it says?

All we have is his now Jack's wife was sure she pretty sure she saw all three names as equals.

Okay, so he's just basically trying to steal the house. How long has this been going on?

All right, at least since mom died in March of 2020.

Okay, so for five years, four years?

Yeah, four and a half years. Yeah.

Okay, so he lived there free, and he won't talk to anybody.

Nobody's living there.

Nobody's living there.

Yeah, it's been unoccupied all this time. No taxes have been paid until, I guess, the county finally figured out that we can send it to Bernie. But his wife, now ex-wife, has paid the $40,000 in back taxes. So now the house is still stuck. We need to force him to get this over with. The house is doing nothing other than my best guess is it's storing his big boy toys in the garage.

Well, there's an answer to the question, but before, I'm just curious, what's wrong with him?

Boy, we're trying to wonder. He stopped talking to me probably 12 years ago.

I know, but what's wrong with him?

He was successfully self-employed, and finally that dwindled because of the market. He went to work for a really good company in the area. I'm sure he's got a good pension and a good Social Security.

Yeah, but that's not what's wrong with him. He's crazy.

I know.

Why did mom pick him?

Let's see. The older brother of me, my life has been a whirlwind of marriages that failed. The brother in the middle, he was a little bit of a rebel. I never My kids, my brother in the middle.

Mama's boy was at home taking care of business, so she put him in.

Pretty much, yeah. Okay.

All right. Well, the only answer to your question is one of two things, forget it and walk away or hire an attorney and go before the probate court, which is the court that dictates wills, and they will force him to get the will out of the lockbox, and they will force him then to execute on the will. If the will says equal parts, they'll force the sale of the property.

Okay, but there's a whole lot of expenses as far as- Oh, yeah.

You're going to have legal fees involved. Sure.

Oh, yeah. But we've got lawn fees, snow fees, and the driver just We're probably just going to have to eat those, right?

I'm sorry. These are liens on the house from the city doing the work?

No, it was all private contractors.

Okay. Have they taken liens on the house? No. Who's paying It's your second.

Bernie was.

Who's Bernie?

The youngest brother. Okay.

So he's been paying to keep the house up?

Maintenance-wise, taxes, he never paid at all. I got it.

Okay, so what's that got to do with dragging him into court? He got the yard cut, so what?

Yeah, but that's coming out of our portions. We don't like that idea.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not.

Right now, your portion is zero.

Yeah. I know, but with him being executor, he's going to say, No, we're splitting it three ways for the 10 years that I've been in control.

Now you're creating a story in the future.

He's not been in control for 10 years. He's been in control for four years.

Yeah, so mom was in a nursing home for five years prior.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that's his problem. Okay. He's the executor. It didn't become your problem until four and a half years ago when she died. Right? Yeah.

No, Now, can the courts hold the beneficiaries that are not executors?

Responsible for what?

I don't know. For not getting this through, for not twisting his arm. No, no, no.

There's not anything. The judge is going to look at this and go, Bernie, son, sell the house. It's going to be pretty simple.

Now, are you supposed to file these wills within what? 30, 60, 90 days? Yeah. All right. So now it's being sold way after that. It's not invalid.

Go get a lawyer.

Oh, definitely.

Alex, just go get a lawyer. They'll tell you every bit of this. But you spend nine million calories analyzing this over the last four and a half years, and you've done nothing about it. Time to be a man of action. Either drop this, no more rent-free in your head, and walk away and forget it, or get a lawyer this week. Get a lawyer. File something next week. Wake 'O' Bernie up. Time to give him a little bit of a cold shower here.

Go to Walgreens today and get a yellow pad and write down all of these questions that you have. What about this? And what about this?

Write them all down. And ask the lawyer.

Ask the lawyer. Every single question you could possibly imagine, which, by the way, 85% of them, are you creating stories in the future, trying to solve in the present, which is a waste of your time. But go write them all down, get them out of your body, and go solve this problem. I think you're trying to avoid the fight. I think, like Dave said, walk away.

Drop it or do it. Or go get on. But quit staying in the middle. Stay in the middle is a sewer patch. You're standing neck deep in a septic tank, spiritually, man. Get out, man. It stinks where you are. Get out. Get out. Get out and walk away or get out and Sue O'Bernie, one of the two. I don't care. Either one's fine with me. You'd have good reason to do either. But sitting where you've been sitting for four and a half years. Let me tell you, if it's me, guys, here's how this goes. You got four and a half minutes, not four and a half years. Well, maybe four and a half months. But not four and a half years. Mom just died, right? I'll give you a minute. But you're going to... Let me tell you what an executor is. It's one who executes. That's where the word comes from. They are not in charge. They do not get to make up new terms of the will. They take the will and they have to do exactly what it says. If you don't like what it says, be mad at the dead person, not the executor, because the executor's job is to execute what the piece of paper says.

They're not allowed to do anything else. Bernie, God help him, is not doing this. Bernie's getting ready to execute because you're getting ready to execute him. Here we go, baby. That's how this works. This is The Ramsey Show. If recent times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with them. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 25 years, the only company I've recommended is Xander Insurance. That's because Xander is a broker that works for you. They search all the top term life plans out there and find you the best rates and make the process of getting coverage quick and easy. You can apply online or over the phone in just minutes, and they offer plans with super competitive rates that don't require a medical exam, making it faster and simpler than ever to get the coverage you need. I trust Xander for all my insurance needs, and you can trust them, too. Don't put off getting term life insurance until it's too late. Go to xander. Com or call 800-356-4282 for a fast and easy quote today.

That's xander. Com or call 800-356-4282. Dr. Chondaloni Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Frank is in Miami. Hi, Frank. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Frank, did I push the button? Let me try again. I did push it wrong. Hey, Frank, how are Hello, Dave.

Hello, John. Thank you so much for picking up my call today. Sure.

How can we help?

To give you some context, me and my wife, we're pretty much almost done with Baby Step number 3, and we want to move into Baby Step 3B, right? So we want to save some money so we can finally buy a house for ourselves. Right now, we are making after taxes around 67 a year. So if we want to follow, of course, the Ranchi method, we definitely need to increase our income since as we live in Miami, it's a really high cost of living in city. And I want to make sure that we stick to the 25% home take so we can make sure we own the house, and the house doesn't own us. So I was telling my wife that she is currently working as a cook in a kitchen in a Mexican place. So she's I'm making 16 an hour. I've been telling her, I know you can make more than that. You're great. Even the people at your work, they say they recognize how good you are, but they just don't pay you to match how good you are. But whenever I try to have that conversation with her, maybe you should look for another job, something that pays you a little bit better because you can make more with your abilities.

She's always like, she doesn't want to, or maybe she doesn't want to get pressure about it. And It's been this back and forth, and I don't know if maybe I'm in the wrong by trying to insist or pressure her into getting a better pay in position. Right now, I make 27 an hour, and in my job, they do yearly reviews, so they give me a raise each year.

What is it that she could be doing that she would make more?

Right now, we both have a degree in computer science. She told me that she didn't like it in the end, and that's perfectly fine. I've been telling her, If you want to do a certification, or maybe if you will, if you really like it, working in a kitchen, we can get you maybe through culinary school, something like that. You can maybe work in a higher paying possession. When I tell her there's options, she's like, They're so nice. Okay, let me look into it. But then a few weeks passes, a few months, and she's not doing anything about it. I cannot feel bad because- Does she work for her family, did you say? No, she works for a Mexican restaurant.

It's not family at all?

No, not family at all.

Okay. All right. So your question is what?

I'm at a point that I don't know if I should continue insisting and pressuring because it caused me some discussions between the both of us because she's saying, I never enough. I never make enough based on you. Because recently, she I only started working around a year ago when our daughter got into school. So first I was like, Okay, now that our daughter is in school, you should get a job, right? With the cost of leaving and everything. Then she got a position, and I let her in that position for a while. And now that I'm having this conversation, If we want to buy a house, we need to increase our income. She's saying, I'm never doing enough based on your standards. We get into this conversations. So I just want to see am I maybe doing the wrong?

It sounds to her like that you are trying to just get more milk out of the cow, and she's the cow. She feels pretty used up here. Instead of you positioning this of, Honey, you are worth more than this. They are not paying you what you're worth. I want you to see you succeed for you. Not we need more money. You need to give more milk.

No, I understand where you're coming from.

I do- No, you don't.

I know it sounds bad.

100% of what you said was about what you could get, and she heard you loud and clear.

Does she want to stay at home and be a mom?

I think at the beginning, that's what she wanted. But then when we moved here into Miami, the reality of the cost, because we have family here, that's why we move here. The cost of living here catched up to us, so that's why she then got a job. We both want to get a house. We don't want to- She doesn't want to get one bad enough to get a better job.

Yeah.

Let me ask you, if I'm in your position and I've had the conversation and my wife says, This is what I can handle, or this is my capacity. I can work in this restaurant, and I come home, and I got to do all the domestic stuff at home. This is where I'm at. What has kept you from going to double and triple and quadruple your salary?

I've been trying to do it. The job that I'm I got that just a few months ago. I got a raise from the previous position. I was making 20 an hour, now I'm making 27 an hour. But I understand. I might come out as being just pushing it.

I think that's what she's hearing, and I think that's why you're getting a pushback. If she was hearing that you wanted this for your goals, look, you say you want a new house, I'd like to have a new house. I also would like to see you get paid more, not because I want more money, but because I you're worth more. I think you'd make do something just as fun and make twice the money.

Frank, let me tell you this. This is not about money, and this is not about a job, it's not about a house. This is about a husband and a wife with two different pictures of what success looks like. Relational success, marriage success, raising a kid, what this picture is going to look like. Anytime a couple gets stuck like this, I always want them to go and completely shake up the snow globe. You've got family there. I've got family on the other side of the country. It's okay. Do I wish I could see them more? Absolutely. But this was what was best for my family at this particular moment in history. I want you all to start there. Do we want to live in Miami? Because if we choose to live in Miami, even though we have these benefits to be around family, here's what it costs us. If those benefits are worth more than homeownership for the next five five or six or seven years to do this the right way, then so be it. Number two, do we have to buy a house? Number three, what's your picture for all these things? What does it all look like?

Let's get back on the same page there, and then we get to the dollars and cents and job and the way Dave said it is right. Honey, I'm tired of seeing how hard you work and hearing how great you are, and I can't stand to look at those managers that aren't paying you what you're worth. You can choose to stay there for any number of reasons, but I just want you to know I see more worth in you when it comes out of the money you're making, your coworkers do, the people who patron the restaurant to. We're going to have that conversation, not, Hey, you need to make more money. You can go make more money. Go make more money. Go make more money. Man, that's just a recipe for burning out.

She's tired of hearing it, and she told you she's tired of hearing it. Reset your pictures for the future and then say, What must be true about us to hit these pictures? Then that picture is Miami, maybe. House ownership, maybe. What has to be true to be a homeowner in Miami? Well, it's not $16 an hour. You and I both know that. So these things are incongruent. You can't sit and say, I want to be a homeowner in Miami, and I'm only going to make $16 an hour. It won't work. You can't do it. It's an expensive city.

And that's when you get to behavior is a language. And if someone says, I really want a house, I really want a house, but I don't want to get another job, then what they're telling you is, I don't really want a house. That's okay. That's okay. But let's just call a spade a spade and let's move on.

Let's dial in exactly what this is.

Men often get stuck in the spreadsheet part of it. Here's the job? Here's how much money it's going to cost me to get this house. There's a bigger picture to that. So sit down and clear the deck and let's work it through.

It's important to reset the picture and be aligned on it. I think I'll go on with that. That's the thing. I can just tell listening to you, you're very ambitious. You've got big goals. You want to do these things. When you start talking to her about all of that, she feels like she's a method you're using to get there, not like you care about her.

Well said.

That's how she feels. I'm just listening to it. I'm just an old guy. I've been married a long time, that's all. Not even a good therapist like Dr. John here. Anyway, this is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. On the debt-free stage, Colin and Leslie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Hey, Dave, how are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you all live?

We are from Cincinnati, Ohio.

Fun. Welcome to Nashville. On the debt-free stage, how much have you paid off?

We have paid off a combined amount of 89,000.

Very good. How long How did this take?

About 25 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

We took, I think, starting around 78,000 take home and ended at 108.

Cool. What do you all do for a living?

I am a regulatory coordinator for a clinical trial company.

And I'm in industrial automation.

Okay, wow. Good for you. What debt was this? 89,000.

5,000 was credit card, and then 85 or 84 was student loans.

Almost all student loans. Yeah. Absolutely. Who brought the student loans into the marriage?

It was me. Okay.

All right. How long you two been married?

It'll be three years here in November.

Okay. Shortly after marriage, you look up and say, We're attacking this monster. I don't want Sally May in my house anymore. Correct. What happened? What woke you up?

It started actually a few months before we got married. We found out we were pregnant with our first son. We were also about two hours away from each other. We were long distance at the time, and I just had a basically come to Jesus moment. I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

I'm not paying anymore.

I did not want to bring our son into that. We had a sit down and we were like, let's just take this out on. We got married. The first month after that, we started paying and it went like that.

Game on, huh? Yeah. Basically. How did you get connected to the Ramsey stuff?

I was called him. Yeah, it was from my family. I grew up in a Ramsey household, went to or did the FPU class through high school, I guess, whatever that crick was called. I grew up in and around it and knew that's what I wanted to do with our family when we started That's how we got to get to that. We had a lot of support coming from our side of the family, my side of the family, with everything going on with paying off the debt.

It was awesome. Leslie, he sits down and goes, Hey, I know how to do this. I got this. What did you say?

I said, Okay, you're going to to help me.

I was a little stubborn, had the mindset of, if I've got the money in my bank account, I'll just pay for it.

No budget, what's a budget? I just pay whatever comes in, and that left my account at zero every month. Not the best way to live.

There's definitely some good arguments around finances with the first six months of our marriage. But I think ultimately, the progress that we saw very early on and what that was They kept the ball moving down the court with us.

Yeah, it's hard to keep doing something that's not working. No, correct. Good for you all. I'm proud of you. Thank you. I bet your family's proud. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. Setting up the family tree. That's what's That would have been my motivating factor and why to be able to do this and provide for them.

It's a good why. A new baby is a good why.

How has this adventure helped you as a young, new married couple, new parents?

I think it just helped us be more mindful about what's important, what we want to just bring into our family in general. Just setting a good foundation for a marriage, too. Was the biggest thing.

What was your biggest fight?

Groceries, I would say. I was the nerd of the budget, the free spirit over here. I think having those conversations on a monthly basis to just adjust for the price of eggs going up 50 cents every single month, it seemed like. Being able to counter her offer there with something that was going to work out and serve us best in the end.

Very good. Well done, you two. Very well done. Good stuff. When people ask, Okay, you're how old? How old are you two?

We're both 26.

You're 100% debt free. Way to go. When people ask, How did you do that? What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

Just do it. It's going to be hard. There's going to be rough days, but you just have to do it.

I think communication for us was key. Sticking to the plan that we had in place, being able to have conversations around it and not fly off the handle at each other, be able to talk about it and say, All right, this is what we decided we want to do. We're not going to try to keep up with the Joneses and worry about everything else going on around us. Just focus on our family unit and what we've got going on and what we're working towards ultimately.

You all both make a good salary in some pretty cool new industries. What's it like rolling up to work not in the same car as everybody else?

We did actually have a car accident in- October of '22, where our family car was totaled.

Then through insurance and some of our savings, we were actually able to cash flow and buy cash.

I used 2011 Lincoln, so not by No means nothing new and fancy, but it makes her feel a little special.

I blend in a little bit to my cowork.

I blend in.

We don't think that there's something special about what you drive. It works for what you need.

Way to go, you two. Very well done. How does it feel to be free?

Just nice and calm, like at peace, I think, is the biggest thing.

I think when something does pop up, it's not a scramble to figure out, how are we going to pay for this? What's going on? There's a sense of calmness, like you said, to be able to say, All right, we'll take this in stride and deal with it.

I think that it's so weird when you get out of debt and have an emergency fund, then hardly anything's an emergency. Yes. I think your life's like a country song before that. Everything can go wrong.

Well, that feeling you all just described, I don't know that that ROI is calculated anywhere. People always want to know What's the best return on this? And what about this? What you all just described, we're a young married couple with two young little ones. The last thing we need is wondering how we're going to pay for stuff or when this bill is due or when this 30-day entry fee turns into. We don't have any of that. We just got peace in the house. You all have no peace in your house because you got two little ones.

We've got two little ones. This is Carter.

All right. Good for you all. And how old is Carter? He is, too. All right. Oh, and a brand new.

Then this is Everett.

How old is Everett? He's brand new. One month. Oh, baby Everett. All right. Very good. Beautiful. Fun, fun. Well, you guys are heroes. You changed your family tree. Thank you. Those two little boys, I have no idea what their mom and dad did for them. They sacrificed and poured on it, got it done in 25 months. $89,000 paid off in 25 months, making 78 to 108. Carter and Everett's mom and dad Colin and Leslie did it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

3, 2, 1. We're debt-free. Yeah!

Yes! Way to go, you guys. Nothing but sunshine, man. That's going places right there. Wow. You know how rich they're going to be? Oh, man. It's unbelievable. You know how much they don't care about that? It's not what's driving them. No, they got those two little boys. They just want that piece, those two little boys to be okay. Man, it's perfect. Very, very well done. Man, that's incredible. Folks, if you'll live like no one else, later, you can live and give like no one else. You can change your family country. You can take the steps to do it. You are in control. No one in Washington is in control. They think they are, but they're not. You are in control. You, talking to you. You are in control. Make different choices. Change your behavior patterns. Change your habit patterns. Increase your communication with your spouse. Some of the communication might be loud, but increase all of the communication with your spouse and get this done, people. Those two right there are a perfect example of how this works. Very, very well done. Good work. Colin and Leslie, your heroes. Congratulations. Congratulations. We're so proud of you here at Ramsey.

Way to go. This is the The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. Rachel Cruz here. You know, some people think budgeting means they can't have any fun with money. And I know this because that was me. But the truth is, budgeting doesn't limit your freedom. It actually gives you freedom.

A budget is simply telling your money where to go.

And the best way to do this is with EveryDollars, my favorite budgeting app. It'll help you create a plan for your money that fits your lifestyle. So whether it's a spontaneous date night or an epic Disney Cruise, budget for some fun. Download every dollar for free today. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Selling or buying a house in this weird world right now, whoa, A lot going on. It's tough. If you're going to do either sell or buy in this weird world, you need a pro in your corner. The Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find an agent you can trust to keep you on track because we trust them. The reason we trust is all the due diligence we've done to figure out if they actually know what the flip they're doing. They didn't get their license last week. They didn't sell their first house on you. That's a bad idea. It's your largest freaking asset. Your uncle Charlie, who's never sold a house before, doesn't need to be your listing agent. Think about it. That's dumb. You need to get a pro in your corner.

We'll send you some of the top agents in your area who we trust because they're high octane, high protein, get-er-done people. It's that simple. Go to RamseyTrusted. Find a RamseyTrusted real estate agent for free at ramseysolutions. Com/agent. Alba is with us in Orlando, Florida. Hey, Alba, how are you?

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Hi, Mr. Deloney. I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

Is it Alba or Alba?

Thank you for asking. It's Alba, like Jessica Alba.

Alba. Okay, Alba. Okay, good. How can we help?

Thank you. I have both of your books. They're amazing. My question is, how can someone stay motivated in baby step two when you deal with clinical depression and bipolarness? Essentially, that pings your motivation.

Tell me about how it affects your motivation.

Well, perfect example was today. All weekend, I woke up at 6:00 AM to start doing my atomic habit of getting up early and motivated for work. I got to work and I couldn't get out of the car to go to work, so I had to call in sick because I was just stuck with fear. I'm always gazelle in time, super excited, super frugal. All my friends know that. But then I go into a depressive slump where nothing matters, and then it's just hard to get back on track.

One of the things I'm going to challenge you on, or number one, I want to high five you for trying to get as far upstream as you can to come up with some daily rituals, some daily routines that are going to help you be successful. Good on You've been working on this a long time, haven't you?

Since I was 16, and I'm 30 now.

Yeah, I'm proud of you. That's a lot of work. I want you to never, ever care about motivation ever again. Because motivation comes and goes. For someone who struggles with bipolar disorder, motivation can be a really terrible master, right? It can lead you into some pretty heavy places. Often, I'm not motivated to exercise, I'm not motivated to eat right, but I know those are the things that are going to help me down the road. I make my list and I do what I can on that list. Then are you heading off into a low season?

Yeah.

I'm going into mania. I wanted to reopen my business out of nowhere.

How long do your low seasons usually last?

They could last two months about, and then I go into a few weeks of just bad decision making. Okay.

One of the things I've seen people be really successful over the years when I've walked alongside folks in your same situation is they have people that they trust, and they have some really high hurdles for themselves. What does that mean? That means they may give their debit card or their, I don't know, their Amazon login to somebody that they trust. Because they can be irresponsible with spending during some of the manic seasons, or they have a boss or a supervisor that they talk through a little bit more than I would recommend someone to talk to their boss about, Hey, this is where I struggle. I may go on a downhill slope for a while, but here's what I'm going to do to manage the situation. Here's how I'm going to get my work done.

I have that relationship, thanks to me. Who knows you guys?

That's outstanding. I appreciate it. The The thing I want you to do, if you're waiting on motivation, motivation comes and goes. I wasn't motivated. I don't have bipolar disorder. I was not motivated to exercise this morning. But I knew, coming off the weekend of travel I had, if I didn't do that this morning, it was going to cost me a whole week. I do the things upstream. For you, that's more challenging, which means you got to get more resources and more support and more people around you. Then you got to do the next right thing on your list. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Just when a man, it could get scary because today, I live in Florida. I wanted to drive to Texas, and I've done that before. I moved there, or I wanted to reopen my business yesterday. I don't have credit cards. I don't have anything like that. I don't go crazy shopping. It's more like drastic life choices.

Sure.

Are you taking your meds? I guess that's scary.

Yeah, I am. Okay, good on you. I'm proud of you for that. Thank you. I'm proud of you for that. Don't stop taking them. Okay, good for you. Did you drive to Texas today?

No, I drove south instead and visited my mom.

Okay. Did you Did you start a business today? No, I didn't. Can I celebrate that with you? Yeah. Because 10 years ago, you would have. Yeah. Listen, this tells me- That's progress. You felt something. In fact, you were motivated to do something. You didn't do what you're motivated to do. You're the opposite. You drove to see your mom. That's a safe place for you. That's one of those accountability partners I was talking about. You felt like starting a business and going and going, and you exhaled and you did the next right thing. I'm proud of you.

That's a big deal. Thank you.

This is what growth feels like, and It's not fun and it's unpleasant at the time.

Yeah. Here's what's interesting. We're celebrating the fact that you didn't do it, and you're hanging out on, I wanted to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I want you to hang out on, You didn't.

Yeah.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I think it's a big place to hang out. I like what John's saying there.

This awesome teammate of ours brought this box. It's not even a box. It's basically like a trunk of donuts this morning and put them in the middle of the office.

What devil worshiper would do that?

She was pretty awesome. But this was, of course, my I declare moment, Alba. This is my I'm going to get back on track this morning. I walk into the offices, but they're there.

There's a temptation from hell right there in the middle of the room.

Oh my gosh. They weren't just regular donuts. These are like handcrafted Nashville unicorn dust donuts. Oh my. But Here's the deal. I wanted to, and I did the next right thing.

I'm going to go look for the box. I know what he's saying.

Don't do it, Dave.

Don't do it, Dave. Step away from the donut.

Let me tell you this, and Can I give you some hard truth, some hard love? Yeah, please. Okay. You know your challenges, and you know the things that set you off, and you know when I'm starting to get manic, and you know I'm starting to get in a season of being pretty low. None of that is an excuse to blow baby step two. Those things are a context. They're not an excuse. Okay? Your mission in life is not to say, Well, I got this thing, so I can just do whatever I want. Your mission in life is to say, I've got these challenges, and all of us have challenges. You've got some significant ones. How far upstream do I need to go to put hurdles in my way so that when those challenges are right Right in my face, I'm not going to make the next wrong choice for me and my future self? I always want people to remember, it's a context, not an excuse. I'm an anxious guy. I like to count locks. That means I got to start counting five minutes early because I still got to be at work on time because Dave says to be here.

All of us have challenges. It's our job to do the next right thing.

There you go. Well done.

I'm proud of you, Albu. Good on you.

That's a good deal. Someone that actually has bipolar, which apparently she really does. Sure. I mean, it might be one of the things that on financial crisis side, I have seen Of all the different psychological things you can run into, I've seen that in here with crisis more often than anything else except addiction. Addiction is number one reason to put you in financial trouble. But bipolar, she's really walking a A road that's full of minds. Yeah, it's very challenging. It's a minefield. It can be done, though. The other thing is that just to not accept it as an identity and say, She's come a long way. She's got everything dialed in. She knows exactly what's going on. She's intellectually managing her way through this, which is what you've got to do. You've got to have progress. It's not a thing. It's not an excuse. It's context, like you said. There needs to be continual progress in that, or you've got somebody walking with you that's doing it wrong.

I want you to call somebody and celebrate your wins like today.

That was a win, right?

You did it.

Two wins.

Two wins. Proud of you.

Didn't open a business, didn't drive to Texas. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. It is a free call, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. The number is 888-828. 5225. Wes is with us. Wes is in Fortworth, Texas. Hi, Wes. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

Honored to speak with you both. You too, sir. Hey, I'm not ready to begin investing yet, but when that time comes, I want to get past a moral hangup with earning interest that I have had for a while based on some of the things I read in the Bible. If I can't move away from that persuasion, just want to know what direction I should take to invest for the future.

I got you. Okay. The only segments of scripture that talk about not gaining interest are in the Old Testament, correct? It's Levitical law. It's Levitical law. Are you Jewish or are you Jewish or are you Christian?

No, I'm just a Protestant Christian. But I'm mainly looking at Psalm 15:5.

Yeah.

He that puteth not out his money to usury nor take his reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved. Yeah.

Okay, so that's Old Testament. There's a bunch of Levitical law that says the same thing. If you go through Leviticus, you can find similar passages just to help you or hurt you or whatever. Further deal. Most evangelical protestant Christians are of the doctrinal stance that we do not follow Old Testament dietary laws, meaning I eat shrimp, I eat lobster, and it's expressly forbidden in Levitical law. I charge interest if I were to loan money. I don't loan money, but if I did, I would charge interest, and I would pay interest or gain on an investment without any fault at all because I'm under the New Testament under Christ, and I don't follow Levitical law on anything, and I don't follow. And that Psalm is referring to that. That's part of the answer, and that's really the big answer. There's another substrata, if you really want to get into the Bible study carefully on it. Usury is not technically a biblical term. It's technically an old English term, and it comes from what you're reading there's the King James version, agreed? Yes. Yeah. That's right. I just read that in case there was a copy. That's okay.

But 1600s was when that was translated, and it was translated in Old English. There's a lot of cool Old English words in the Bible, the King James version of the Bible. But if you go under that and you read the Hebrew, what usury means in the Hebrew is not to charge interest, it's to charge excessive interest. We have, for instance, in Tennessee, we have usury laws to keep people from charging excessive excessive interest. When people are, for instance, going to pass legislation in a state to stop payday lenders or 6 and 800% interest, they usually fall under some a usury law or an exemption from a usury. Usury in modern terms is not interest, it is excessive interest. That's a substrata of the study on this. But the overarching strata is I eat lobster I'm not bound to the dietary laws of the Old Testament, and I'm not bound to the... I don't have to stone an adulter. I'm not bound to the Levitical law. Because of Christ, because in the New Testament, those things are fulfilled in Christ. So I'm walking in a liberty of freedom, and that's a doctrinal stance. That's the belief of most evangelicals or Protestant Christians, for that There are Catholics who would fall under that category as well.

The only time you might run into this would be certain segments of Judaism where they're Old Testament only. For instance, I've got a friend who's an Orthodox Jew who is a great friend of mine, Dr. By Dr. Daniel Lappin, and he stays... He eats kosher. He stays exactly kosher because he's Orthodox Jew, and so he's maintaining that dietary law, and it's beyond shellfish, believe me. But it's fun. It's cool. But that's a good discussion. So you're going to be fine biblically. As far as most teachers would tell you that, you may find some sect of Christianity somewhere that would tell you you can't. But I've been studying this for 30 years through the lens of scripture, and I can't find anybody that's credible out there that says it's biblically wrong to charge interest. Excessive interest, yes. Take advantage of the poor, yes. Take advantage of a widow, yes. Kick people when they're down, yes. All of that. That's where your payday lenders get in a biblical squeeze, not much less a moral squeeze. But it's a great question. It's a good discussion. I'll tell you who else is who cannot receive interest under any circumstances.

They cannot receive interest is a law-keeping Muslim. The Quran expressly forbids it, and you have to avoid it, period. They can do things where you get gain, where something goes up in value if you're in the Muslim tradition and you're following the Quran to the letter, but you cannot open a High-yield savings account at the bank. Nope, not a chance. Can't do it. It's interesting to study these things. I guess religions is the right way of saying it. It's not a tradition, it's a religion, and what their book says.

That's fascinating. Yeah, I have to think on that.

I had a couple of guys that were devout Muslims that came through some of our coaching and training because they wanted to take the Ramsey Christian biblical concepts to the Muslim world. We had this wonderful discussion of what lined up with the Quran and what doesn't. The Quran hates debt, by the way.

All ancient traditions hate debt.

Yeah, that's true. Mortgage is French for death pledge. Wow. Yeah, that's actually where that word comes from. The etymology is just something else. But yeah, it's very interesting. Very interesting. I got asked in a deposition if I eat shrimp by a lawyer, trying to prove that I wasn't a real Christian. Oh, got you. It was like, Honey, you don't understand how this works. You get to have a doctoral lesson right here in a A little of a deposition. There we go. Anyway, all right. Brianna is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Brianna. How are you?

Hi, I'm doing good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? You know what? I goof. I didn't look down at my clock. That music playing says that a guy that's been doing radio 30 years shouldn't have picked up your call because he's stupid. But I'll be right back to you after I go make a little money. This is the Ramsey Show. Here Ramsey, we talk a lot about building wealth, and a big part of protecting your wealth is insurance. Having the right insurance is key to taking care of the things and people that are most important to you. When you work with our Ramsey-trusted insurance Pros and partners, you'll have the peace of mind knowing you're not paying for gimmicks. You're only paying for what you need. Get connected with a Ramsey Trusted Insurance Pro at ramseysolutions. Com/coverage. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Brianna is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Brianna. What's up?

Hi. I'm 20 right now. Last year, when I turned 19, my dad gave me $10,000 to go buy a car with. I went to the dealership, and instead of buying a $10,000 car, I decided that I actually wanted a shiny $30,000 car. I financed $20,000 and used that $10,000 as a down payment. The car payments and everything were fine at the time because I was working full-time. But now that I'm back in school and I can only work part-time, these car payments are eating me alive. Half of my income every month goes to this car between insurance payment and gas, and I just can't do anything else. I can't live. I'm not sure what to do with this car now.

Sell it?

That's the thing. I went to go sell it and look into it, and they told me that the car was only worth, I think, $12,000 or something, and I still owe $17,000 on it.

That's what a dealer would give you for it.

Okay.

So your dad, you refused to accept guidance from him or he just didn't give you any guidance?

He didn't really give me any. He just was like, Here's $10,000, go buy yourself a car. I went with my brother, who's only two years older than me, and he was supposed to be Mr. Finance guy and tell me what to do and help me with it. That was the whole point of him going with me. That's how I ended up in a car love.

Okay. Car dealers buy cars at wholesale, and they resell them at a profit at retail. You understand the difference in that?

Yeah, I think so.

If your car is worth $12,000 to a dealer, it's probably worth 17,000. Okay. But you've only owned it one year and you paid 30 for it?

Yeah.

That's a little weird, too.

Well, so I financed 20,000 because I used the 10,000 as a down payment. I know. And I've only had it for one year.

But you paid $30,000 for the car and you think it has gone down 15,000 or so, 13,000 or whatever. I'm saying it might be worth 17 in one year?

Yeah, that's what they're telling me. When I did a Kelly Blue Book thing, too, it essentially spat me out the same price. I'm confused as to how that could be, too. Okay.

Is it a private sale or trade-in value on Kelly Blue Book?

I think I just clicked sell. I didn't click trade-in.

Yeah, I think you clicked sell, and then they gave you a wholesale because that's you going over to Carvana or you're going over to Carmax or just the dealer. They'll always buy a car from anyone because it's what they do. They buy them at auction, they buy them for the purpose of reselling and making a profit. So your goal is not to be inventory for them. Your goal is to sell the at retail on something like trader. Com or Craigslist or whatever. I'm either you dramatically overpaid for this car when you bought it at 30,000, or it's the worst piece of crap on the planet, or the information we're getting so far is wrong. Because a car that goes in half in one year is highly unusual. They suck, but they don't usually suck that bad.

Yeah, that's Yeah, that's what I've been told. I mean, there is a decent amount of miles that I put on it because I had to drive a lot for work.

What's a decent amount of miles?

Maybe 10,000 miles on it.

That's not a decent. That's not big miles. That did not devalue the car in half. Okay. Normal usage is 12,000 to 15,000 miles a year. Anything above that might start devaluing it, but somewhere in there is normal usage.

Did you buy it new?

No, it was used.

What is it?

It's a Cadillac.

Which one?

Xt5.

That car did not go in half in one year.

Okay.

So either you overpaid for it or you've got bad information.

You're putting the wrong year in, maybe, something like that. Yeah.

I want you to keep poking around on this. And your older brother is not your source of information. He's not wise. We've already discovered that. I need you to get somebody, your dad or somebody in your life, to help walk with you on this. Anytime I'm in an area that I don't know anything about, I try to bring someone along beside me to help me do it the first time.

Yeah.

You tried that with your older brother, but I'm saying here But I'm saying here you need to get somebody that actually can help you look at this value. Go to kbb. Com, look at private sale, look on trader. Com, and you can look at... There's a couple of other sites you can poke around on and talk about selling a car. Individual to individual used, and that's what you're going to need to do and get it sold.

Okay.

Then you may be walking or you may be getting a $1,000 or $2,000 car, save up. What are you making and who's paying for school?

My dad is completely funding my school, so I don't have any student loans or anything. Why don't you talk to him about this, too, and just say, Hey, I made a huge mistake when I bought this.

Can you help me figure out how to get out of this thing? Yeah, go in there and say, I admit the error. I don't know what Charles' relationship is on this, but I wish he had gone with you rather than your brother and you'd walked out with a $10,000 paid for car, you'd have been in a lot better shape. Obviously, you know that already.

Something's rotten in Denmark here. That didn't go down that much.

Anyway, check it out. The answer to the question is you do need to get rid of the car, and you shouldn't have bought it in the first place, and you already know that. So cool. Not shaming you, just walking with you. All right. You coached this age person, the whole time you were dean of students in a higher education in different universities around. I raised three that went through college and through that age group. I got criticism from a few of our friends that Dave and Sharon were too controlling of their college-age students, college-age kids. My kids never really pushed back, and we really weren't that controlling. But we did not just turn them loose in the wild. I'm paying for your college, so your life is going to reflect my value system. Otherwise, I'm not paying for it. That includes making decisions like this. There's no way I would have. But I would have gone with one of them, and they would have picked out their own car, but it would have been within the $10,000 budget, and we wouldn't have gone down this with all that stuff. But what I find a lot of parents doing is just taking their hand off the wheel.

Okay, you're 18, you're physically look like you're grown, and just turn them loose. They get... I mean, poor Brianna, she got flared buy a car dealer. She got, and her older brother is stupid, I mean, young and dumb. She didn't do anything wrong. She's not a bad person at all. She just didn't know, and they saw her coming. She got fleeced, right? I think parents ought to stay involved.

They should absolutely stay involved. It's funny when you separate the parent part, we all, as a society, have agreed, you got to be 21 to buy beer or guns or bullets, whatever. But when it comes to your kid, it's like, Hey, they're 18, man, I'm finally done. I'm tired. Go get them. Here's 10,000 bucks. Get a car. I'll cover your tuition. Go make good choices. Man, those four years- You're not done. Those are critical times, man.

You're not done parenting. No. No, no, no. You should be done controlling. That's right. But you should be done controlling by the time they're 16.

I'm going to start walking next to you, with you.

Yeah, walking beside you. But there's still a rope attached here. Absolutely. It's just a long one. You've got a lot of latitude as long as your life reflects that latitude. But this idea that you're just go do whatever the crap you want all of a sudden, that's bad parenting, boys and girls. I'm sorry. If you all think I'm a dinosaur, that's fine.

We're Just look at this. A good kid.

A T-rex. That's what I am.

A good dad. But you hand a kid $10,000, and the chances they're going to make a good choice with that money. It's tough, man.

I'm not saying you're a bad person. Just a dumb parenting decision. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, there's a lot of half baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff. Check out the SmartVestor program. Smartvesta connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher. They'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvestor to get connected and get more confident about your plan. That's ramseysolutions. Com/smartvestor.

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Com/smartvestor.

Dr. Condaloni, Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Dima and Rhonda are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. Where do you two live?

We live in Durham, North Carolina.

Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off?

We paid off 266,192.

How long did this take?

Oh, my God.

Four years and eight months. Yeah. All right. And your range of income during that time?

Our starting salary was 138,000, and our ending salary was 284,500. $500.

Look at you two.

What do you all do?

What do you do for a living?

Well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company, so I'm in the compensation role.

Okay.

I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well.

Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks. For real?

I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor.

You ain't making $280,000.

Not at all. I'm also a professor as well. Okay, there you go. Very Very good.

Good for you guys.

That's awesome, guys.Thank.

You.want to go. What debt was the 266?

It was a car loan, credit card.

In Dimas grad school. And student loans. I'm telling you right now, I know that.

Absolutely student loans.

My student loans were 150,000, and Rhonda's were 100,000.

About 100, yeah.

That's undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate.

For me, I went out of state, Dave, in a private institution. Then I went on and got a master's after that. Why not? Talk about piling it on.

Piling it on. Okay, so how long have you two been married?

Oh, this year, we're celebrating 10 years.

Halfway through five years ago, something happened. What happened? What set you off on this?

He decided to go get that last degree. We were already, if you want to think about it, we were 800 and something in student loans, just me, with Dimas student loans being in forbearance. We're like, What are we going What are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017, and Dima started school, and we're like, We cannot take on my loans, daycare, and then when Dima gets his student loans. We were scared. What's that going to look like?

It just kept stacking up until it got scary.

Yeah, it got really scary.

Then what happened? What did you do?

We're graduates of the Financial Police University, so I think we were just paking it baby steps, baby steps. But when we realized what we're going to be under with all the students, we were just like, We've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional. Time to get hardcore. Yeah, absolutely.

All right. You lean in. What was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did?

We started doing the monthly, monthly meetings talking about our finances. Hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're paying with cash. If it wasn't on our monthly things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it. What would you say?

Who's the spender?

I was hoping you would ask that.

Oh my God, Dave.

Well, your shoes are shot from here.

Your watch is blinding me. Let me say this. For his birthday, he was like, Oh, let's go. Let's get this car. Let's test drive it. On his birthday, we ended up walking away with a car. I would say, Dave, after we got intentional, that car, we sold it, and we were upside down. We're like, But we can't. We made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars. That was really the testament that he was able to say, Hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt, and sold the car.

Being debt-free was more important. Absolutely.

You all have made an incredible combined salary together. Both of you all are rolling up to places where people are seeing you all drive up, and you all are driving a quarter million dollar cars.

No, we still own. I have a 2010 Mazda. Yeah.

It runs great.

It runs great. It runs great. It runs great. Going to your mysterious compensation job.

Yes, absolutely. We're like, Hey, we can't get rid of this. We I'm thinking about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying, Now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do?

Definitely humbling ourselves and having faith in the process was a struggle, but I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient. Absolutely.

Because you know what, Dave? We're all taught to pay off debt, but then it's like, What do you do after you pay off debt? We're loving these conversations because we've just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off the- Four years.

I mean, that's a habit pattern right there.

Right, right. Absolutely.

Four years of doing nothing.

Yeah, basically. But you know what? One of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say, what are we going to do? I remember our birthday, we had $100. So what were we going to do with that? We went and we did a day trip to the beach, and that's been the most memorable trip. It's like we packed sandwiches, everything was free, and we're like, wow. I'm like, I'm still talking about that birthday. It's like, be humble and you'll be surprised. I think even Dima made me a birthday cake.

It was box, but you know.

It was good and it was humbling to us. There you go.

Dima, can I tell you, being a professor, being a mental health practitioner, I've always wondered if you want to do this This scientific study, I'll put it on the air for you. I always wondered if you're somebody in the helping profession, if you're a professor, how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say? Because you're not really supposed to say that, and I owe somebody money. Now, the students that you're going to be teaching, they're going to get unfiltered you because nobody's telling you what to do anymore.

No knife over you.

You're going to be able to sit there and tell these clients of yours, Here's the truth, because I don't know anybody about anything, man. I could speak from here now. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt-free, just the freedom, if you will.

Like you mentioned, Dr.

John, that freedom that you have to… You have that discretionary income, if you will. We're still working through the baby steps, but you have more freedom, and there's no loans or things of that nature that you to pay. That's awesome.

I'm proud of you guys.

Well done. Thank you. We're proud of you. Excellent. Way to go, heroes.Thank you.Thank you. How does it feel?

Dr. Dron, you said it. To not owe anybody anything. We're like, What can we do now? It's really challenging us to say, What do we want to do with our careers? How do we give back? It's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge. We're just ready and fired up about it.

It's refreshing. Our budget meetings are… It's a different vibe.

Oh, yeah.

We can't thank you two in the moment.

Oh, my God.

Ramsey crew. Yeah, thank you all.

Way to go, you all. We're proud of you. Thank you.

This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. You all both did all right. Thank you. Me and Dave, we went out in our marriages, but you all both did real well. That's awesome. Thank you.

I appreciate it.

That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done. All right, it's Dima and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina. $266,000 paid off in four years and eight months, making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free.

Yeah, let's go.

I love it. Well done. Very well done. Yeah, I guess the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically, but particularly, I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck, so you can just go, Here's the truth.

Well, and you said at the table, and this is how we're going to teach this, or this is how we're saying this, or if you have this belief, you're stupid. If you owe a whole bunch of money, you got to put your head down and go to the next thing. Got to bite your tongue.

Got to bite your tongue.

Now, DIMA has been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man.

Way to go, heroes. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, James 1:4, Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. Henry Ford said, Obstacles are those things you see when you take your eyes off the goal. That would be true.

Very cool.

Hey, folks, the best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do. Money is a good slave. It is a horrible master. You don't want to work for it. You need it to work for you. The way you do that is called a budget. Every dollar is the world's best, most robust budgeting app. It is exploding. Millions and millions of millions of people are doing a budget now. It's very cool, very excited of the results of this. It's happening really fun. Keep a pulse on your spending, follow your progress through the baby steps, be in control, be on the same page with your spouse. Every bit of this. Download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Oak is with us. Oak is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Oak. What's up? Hi. Can you hear me? Absolutely. How can we help?

Two years ago, 2022, I jumped the gun a little too early getting a house. I saw how fast prices were rising, and I got a little scared that they weren't going to stagnate. I bought a four-bedroom house with the intention of doing house hacking, which has been going pretty well so far. I have no complaints. It's been pretty simple.

So you filled it with roommate?

Yes. Okay. But my issue now is I'm having regrets because had I stayed with my parents an extra two years, I could have put down double, maybe 50% on a one bedroom, two bedroom house and worked on aggressively paying that off instead of having a large house that is reliant on tenants. I was wondering, do you think it would be best to continue as doing now or just cut my losses, spell it and try and- Why is there a loss?

It should have gone up in value in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Yes, I cut my losses as the incorrect- You mean emotionally cut your losses?

Yes. Okay. But financially, you would sell the house and make money, would you not?

I would, yes.

So what's the house worth today?

About 5, 20,000.

Okay. What do you make?

A hundred A thousand a year.

How old are you?

Twenty-six. Okay.

And what do you owe on it?

370,000.

Okay. So you would make 100 grand or more net of the Well, if you sold it, right?

Yes.

Kind of sounds like 50% down on a one or a two bedroom.

Okay, so what I meant is, should I sell now and get a new mortgage on a smaller property or stay here and keep saving up to try and pay cash for my next house?

I don't care. Does it matter? Either one will get you there. All right. As long as you're not having trouble with roommates and you're not having trouble collecting rent and that stuff. I'm with you. I would not have signed up for the trip you've taken, but now that you're in that vehicle, I don't know that going to force it to jump ship unless you just hate it.

Do you hate it? Got you. No, I don't hate it.

It sounds like you're real pissed off at a couple of years ago, Oak.

Less pissed off and more I realized I made a rushed decision.

I would say instead of walking around regretting it, just your '26, man, you're not even in the same ballpark with stupid money decisions that I've made over the years. You got a long way to go, man. If that's your last one that you made at 26, you win. I would say you learned something at 25 or 24 years old, good on you. It's made you 100 grand. I wish I had more of those errors in my life that made me $100,000. Stop regretting it, man. It just is a different choice. You know in the future, I'm going to make a different decision. You sound like a smart guy. I just don't want you beating up my friend Oak anymore.

Oak, are you making enough on the rental of the bedrooms to pay the current payment without you putting in any money?

No, I'm 300 less than the mortgage.

Okay, so you have 300 out of pocket. If you sold this and put 100 down on a 250, you'd be out of pocket more to live there, right? But you'd have no roommates. Yes. No risk and no hassle.

Yeah. Yes.

All right. What are you making again? You said you make 100? Yeah. You don't have any house cost much. How quick can you save another 100?

I'm not sure. I've taken life a little too casually, and I realized I have a spending problem, a shopping addiction. It depends on how quickly I can get that done.

Well, I agree with that.

I've been using the income from tendons to supplement my lifestyle.

So instead of paying down the mortgage, you're taking what house payment you don't have and you're just blowing it on nonsense?

No, not all of it. It's just saving money.

Not all of it, just offsetting it a little bit.

Okay, you're 26. Did you learn a lesson? Yeah. Okay. Let's be done with that. Again, congratulations.

Yeah, I'll just lay down what you want to do and say, I need 100K to go with 100K from the house. That's 200. How quick can I do that making 100? Sounds to me like a year and a half to two years if you're very careful.

Yeah. If you have a true addiction, if you are over your head- He doesn't need just spending. Yeah, but call somebody. But I think you're just spending it. I think you're having fun as a 25-year-old like most of us did.

Casual. That's what he said, like casual. You Just casual. It's time to get... What you need is a goal that lifts you and causes you to be a better version of you. That's right. Something to aim at. If this house move is something to aim at, you say, Okay, I'm going to do this for two more years or 18 more months, and I'm going to save $125,000. I need to save X number of dollars a month. Until I've done that, I'm not having any fun. Until I've done that, there's not going to be anything casual about me. I'm going to go after it. You got to lay yourself into a plan, and then that'll keep you moving in the right direction. Jada is with us. Jada is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Jada. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Good.

I was just calling just, I guess, to get an opinion.

My husband and I, we want to buy a house next year, but we are about $75,000 in debt with the car credit card bills and whatnot. We thought about trying to do credit booster programs, debt consolidations, selling stuff, but I just feel like- None of that will work. We were all over.

Yeah, and I felt like we were all over the place.

I didn't really get into it. I just I need to take a step back.

How much do you owe on your car?

My car is about $18,000.

How much on the other car? $22,000. Okay, and what's your household income?

He just started working back full-time again, so within the next couple of months, we'll be at $5,100.

Okay, and you work full-time?

I do.

Okay, that's $60,000 a Right? Okay. That's $60,000 a year, right? Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Your cars are insane. Yeah. You can't breathe because of your cars.

Pretty much. Yeah.

The way you get a house is magical. You sell the cars, and then you'll suddenly have some money, get you some cheapo $2,000 cars to drive to work, and both of you need to be working more. You're not making any money.

Right. I've looked to sell my car, and I heard on a previous call you on about the Kelly Booba private sale, but mine was worth about, I think it was like 12,000.

So you're going to have to borrow the difference, or you're going to have to save up the difference. But you guys don't make enough money to be driving these cars. These cars are driving you. So we got to make that move one way or another. We got to figure out how we're going to pull this off. But that's the thing. More income, less outgo. You're not buying a house next year. You're not going to be ready by next year. It's going to be the year after that, and that's only if you lay into this hard. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show on the Books. We'll be back with you before you know it, in the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr. John Deloney Show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career.

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