Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you, America, help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your relationships, and your work. The phone number is triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five. It's a free call. (888)-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. John Deloney joins me this hour. The Good Doctor is in here. This is your mental health and relationship expert. Then I'm in the workspace here at Ramsey. We don't have a money personality on it, but that doesn't mean we aren't going to take money calls, because we are. We're going to take your money calls, your work-related calls, and the mental health. By the way, they all work together. John and I were talking about this the other day about how if your work-life is sucking, you're going to drag that home with you. If your home life is on fire, you're bringing that to the office. All the calls, money, relationships, work, mental health today, we want to help you. You're ready to go?

Yeah. By the way, if your money's not going well, there's no way you can be well.

That's correct. No matter.

What you're doing. If you're driving to work and you don't know if you have the money to put gas in your car, your work day is not going to be great.

That's true. It all works together, man. Absolutely right. Let's start it off with Barbara in Reno, Nevada, they tell me. Not Nevada. Barbara, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Thank you for taking a walk.

Good. We're having fun. What's going on with you today?

Well, first, I just want to appreciate you saying.

Nevada, right? I got to tell you, I said it wrong enough to finally get it right. It's Nevada. Even though I want to say Nevada, it's Nevada.

Awesome. The reason I'm calling in is because I have committed plenty of financial infidelity trying to help my father, who's disabled. He has little to no income. It's becoming a problem, obviously, in my marriage because we're now in day step two. We're wanting to knock all this debt out, but at the same time, still emotionally tied, like wanting to help my father, but wanting to stay faithful to my finances.

What has happened up to this point? Give the good doctor here a bit of a sample of what financial infidelity has looked like up to this moment.

My father's come to me for loans. Don't know. We're not talking big numbers like thousands of dollars or anything like that, but maybe in the hundreds range. But my husband and I are low income, so it's a big deal when we loan out a couple of hundred dollars or whatever.

What's your combined income?

Right now, we're a one-income household, and we're shy of 39,000. How come?

Why are you a one-income household?

I'm a stay-home mom right now, but I had a work injury, and so I've been stuck at home.

What work injury?

I hurt my back at work.

Can you get a job working from home?

I'm looking into it. But the main thing is that with my dad, it's become a little bit of like... I don't know if emotional manipulation has become a strong...

I don't know if that's a strong turn. Listen, I just want to stop right there. 100% of this is on you. Yes, I agree. Your dad is doing what he knows to do, which is to ask you for money, and he gets it from you. If you cut that off or if you say, Hey, dad, it's not a good time, he's going to use whatever tactics he knows. If he was on the phone, I would say, Stop doing that. But the fact that he gets an exchange, money comes from your account to him, he plays no part in that. You give it to him for whatever reason, okay? So whether he's manipulating you, being mean, whatever, you are handing him the money, and at the same time, you're choosing to lie to your husband about it.

You're absolutely right.

I want you to take full ownership of this. Same ownership is, and the reason Ken's asking you about what does this look like, and I'm asking you about working from home, is it's real easy to get into this, Well, I can do this, and I can do this, but I have to do this, and I just think there's a big box of bull crap to most all of that. You can get a work-from-home job. Millions and millions and millions of people have done it.

Yeah, in fact, her answer to your question, you asked her point-blank, Can you? You said, Barbara, I want to pick it on you. But your response was, Well, I'm looking into that. When the answer was yes or no, and the answer is yes, unless the kids are eating up all of your time, but you work prior to the back injury, so the question becomes now, how long before the back is healed? When does the doctor say you can now resume whatever your previous duties were? The point we're asking here is you've got to make some changes. Number one, we need more income. At this point in Renew, Nevada, in 2023, with you have the ability to work at home or in the office, your choice, there's no way you guys should be making 39,000 gross. That's a separate issue from you giving your dad money. But either way, we've got to make some really clear changes in our life.

It's also easy to get buried by shame. You don't tell the truth one time, and then that piles onto this, and it piles onto that. What I want you to do is to begin to think of yourself, imagining yourself standing up on your own two feet and saying, I'm taking control of all of this. Now, has your husband asked you point blank, Where's all this money? You're like, I don't know. You've lied to him? Or have you just done this thing quietly?

My husband and I started talking about it a few months ago, maybe more than that, because obviously things started to get tight and it was like, Oh, how can we can't afford that? Then I had to complain about it. Now I've told them I'm going to put my foot down because you're absolutely right. The onus is on me. I'm the one that needs to have the backbone to be like, I'm sorry, Dad, I can't. That's true because we don't have the money. But I do agree with you guys. I definitely need to get a job from home. I'm not opposed to that at all. To answer your question, my husband is aware. We've made an agreement together that I'm not going to fall back on that. I'm not going to feel... What's the word? I'm not going to do that anymore.

Barbara, one of the things that you guys probably should do is a budget. If you guys an every dollar budget using our world-class app, or the point is a zero based budget where we're going to spend every dollar on paper because this is an extra layer of accountability. If you're both communicating on the budget, then the agreement that you just made or you mentioned has more teeth. Have you guys done this?

Yes. We have a budget. We actually need to plug back into the every dollar app.

Because there's not a line item for dad anymore.

Right. Or if theres. Or if there is, you agree on that. We're going to send him 50 bucks a month, and that's what we've agreed on. If my dad was disabled and could not eat without support, I would have a hard time not helping, okay? Yeah, of course. But I would have to sit down and be honest with my wife about it and not lie and hide about it. Maybe I can't send him $500 like I want to, but I can do 50. I would recommend you and your husband getting on a phone call with dad. You're both on the same page and say, Dad, we've done a budget. We can no longer afford to support you. We can do this or we can't do anything. That's the way it's going to be moving forward. So you're both on the same page. Dad can't pull anybody's heartstrings, and then you all can get lined up and go forward together. But you got to get a job ASAP. Thanks for the.

Call, Barbara. Don't move, folks. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show.

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To The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney, we are here for you this hour. The phone number to jump in is triple-8-825-5225. That's triple-8-825-5225. Let's go to Omaha, Nebraska, now where Jack awaits. Jack, how can we help?

Hi, I'm 19. A couple of months ago, I had gotten back from vacation with a family. And my car, well, my previous car was a Ford Fusion, 2017. I bought it for $15,000. I took out a loan, probably not the best idea. And within a couple of months, I had the engine overheating all the time and head gas gets started blowing. So that car I had to end up fixing, which ended up costing around 2-3 grand. And then there was one issue after another. And by July of this year, I had to trade it in and was about $8,000 under on that car loan. And everybody that was helping me find cars and everything ended up telling me that it would be a great idea to get this high on day Tucson, 2020, which probably shouldn't take other people's advice that aren't in a great position. But what I did, and now I'm having a car payment that's right around $500 a month. At six or seven % interest, and overall loan is $28,000. And I'm just curious what you guys think the best route would be to get out of this situation.

Okay, do you have any cash at all?

I've got 1,000 cash, then I've got right around $18,000 in investments.

What investments?

Stock market. Just normal ETFs like S&P 500, VTI, and QQ and and all that stuff.

Okay, well, because these are stocks, this is not a retirement account, because people call all the time on the show and they'll ask us, Should I take money from my 401(k) or retirement accounts to pay off debt? And the answer is no, because you're not getting dollar for dollar there, and you're hurting your investment strategy. But in this case, with the stocks, as volatile as they are, we absolutely, in this case, would say, Yeah, cash out those stocks. That's 18. Of course, you're going to take a little hit on that, but that's going to allow you to make a huge dent in this car. Then my guess is you could knock this thing out with that a headwind. What income do you make?

Right now, I'm making about $700 a week after tax.

Okay, all right. What do you do for a living?

Hvac, and then I got a part-time gas station job.

All right, is that part-time gas station job included in the 2,800 net per month?

Yep.

Okay.

What are you doing for HVAC? You're just going to say- I.

Was going to say, I'm surprised you're not making more money.

I had some HVAC guys out, and I sneeze, and they charge me $2,800.

Right. I'm a first year guy. I've been here for four months now, and I'm just working on new residential buildings. I'm just making a base.

Are you an apprenticeship? I'm starting an.

Apprenticeship in an hour in a minute. Yep. So I'm going to be starting school actually two weeks from now.

Okay. Is that the only debt you have?

Yep. 200 on credit cards, but I pay off... I don't carry a balance month to month.

Okay.

All.

Right, John, you want.

To take on that?

Go ahead. Oh, sorry.

No, go ahead. I am thinking about canceling the credit cards because the cashback is one %.

Yeah, well, that's a game you're.

Going to lose. A hundred %. That's a game that smart people came up to come after your money. I'm not saying you're not smart, but you did buy two dumb cars in a row. So you're smart, your track record money is not. Cancel those cards immediately, dude. Just get rid of them. I would sell all your stocks, and this is what we call a knucklehead tax. And you're 19 years old. Dude, I've made stupid decisions with money way older than you. So you've learned your lesson here. Don't take money advice from broke people. Don't borrow money on depreciating assets. It's just such a dumb, dumb thing to do. And man, when you start this apprenticeship, are you going to go up in salary? That's so low. I don't know how you're eating is what I'm saying.

Yes. I started off at 15:50 an hour the first two weeks, and they bumped me up to 16:50. And then just last week, they bumped me up an extra 50 cents.

Okay. All right. I think you've got a path forward. Is that what you want to do? You want to be in that HVAC space?

Yeah, because I know that there's definitely money to be made after. It takes some years and any trade to really start making good money.

Let me tell you what I would do if I were you. I would bounce on the gas station job as soon as we replace the gas station job. You need every nickel coming in right now because we want to knock this out. But with your skill set, you're handy enough, intelligent enough to things that I'm not to fix an HVAC system. There's a lot more hourly opportunities for you out there using your hands, working multiple jobs. If you're a laborer for an electrician or I don't care, I would be in those trades working as much as I can, because if you take the stock dividends, you're going to cash the stock out, I would pay this truck off, and you're going to be out of this thing pretty quickly if you get very serious. The question is, can you put $1,000 a month? I'm just taking minimum, $1,000 a month towards this debt. Could you do that?

Yeah, because my only expense is right now, I don't have to pay rent because I live with my dad. Right now, my only expenses is phone bill and cars and insurance. Yeah.

I mean, be working like a mad man and knock this payment out. Get rid of the stocks, immediately put it towards the car loan, and then get that car loan on a whiteboard or on your mirror and that's the number. You go, Okay, if I put 1,000 or 1,500 or 1,200 a month, then I'm paying this thing off. The nice thing is you got a decent car, a pretty nice car, actually. Yeah, it's a good car. You've paid it off. To John's point, you're not going to go down this road again.

Hey, here's what I would do if I were you, to Ken's point. This Saturday, right after Thanksgiving, actually Friday after Thanksgiving, Black Friday, I would print off 500 flyers that I will do all sorts of, I'll hang your ceiling fan, I'll put up Christmas lights. I'll help you get your tree in, and I'll throw away your tree when we get done. I'll quit that job. Dude, you can rack up some cash. Because you know what my wife said the other day over Christmas break? Hey, I need you to hang these two ceiling fans. I need to change these three light fixtures out. Dude, if some kid knocked on my door, some 19-year-old knocked on my door and said, Hey, I'll do that for 350, I would hire you right this second to come in on the ladder, hang a ceiling fan, and you know how to do all that stuff.

You want to drive to Franklin? John and I have jobs for you.

Right now. I'm like, right now.

Don't do that. Please don't do that. Don't drive here.

Yeah, we've had people do a lot of stuff. We've had.

People take us seriously, I.

Just realized. Exactly. But listen, I would go fly around your neighborhood the day after Thanksgiving, and I'm telling you're going to get some jobs. Enough to quit that secondary job, and you're going to be in people's homes, you're going to be practicing some of the skills you used as an HVAC guy. It's going to be fantastic work.

Right.

Yeah, you can do this, man. Okay. You've got it. And here's.

The deal. Sell all that stock today.

Get rid of the credit cards, okay? Let me just walk you through. How long have you been listening to the show or watching?

Oh, man. At least a little bit before I was 18, so probably a year and a half.

All right, so are you familiar with our baby steps? Yep. All right, then that's what you're doing here. You're in baby step two. You've got the $1,000 in savings. Don't touch that. The stocks. Okay. Then you're getting after it, two and three jobs, like John said. Once you get the car paid off, now you're going into Baby Step 3. Let's get three to six months of your expenses in the bank. Then after that, 15% of that check, my friend, and then you're off and running and you're going to be a millionaire. A millionaire HVAC guy who maybe owns his own company and creates jobs, okay? That's how close you are to changing your life. You got it?

When you do this, you're going to start a company, and I want you to take care of the 19 and 20-year-old to come and join your company. When you hire them, I want you to sit down and walk them through what financial freedom actually feels like, because you're going to be on the other side of this. Love that.

Jack, you can do this. We're cheering for you. No more listening to people who are broke on their car ideas. That just never works. But he's going to have a paid-off Hyundai pretty soon.

Yeah. It's 2020. It's going to last another decade.

It really will. Fantastic. It really will. Great stuff. All right, he is Dr. John Deloney. I'm Ken Coleman, and this is The Ramsey Show. Don't move America. More of your calls coming right up. I get heartbreaking calls and.

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Welcome.

Back to The Ramsey Show. Doctor John Deloney joins me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are here for you this hour, triple-8-8255, 225. Hey, folks, it's Turkey week. Thanksgiving is going to be here just a couple of days. Well, Ramsey has joined the craze. Let's be honest. Black Friday, some of you people live for this, your big deals. Well, we've got the Black Friday deal going on now. How about that? Early access to some of our best deals of the year, great gifts for family and friends as low as $8. All audiobook gift cards are $8. Gee whiz, John. We spend a lot of time in the studio reading those things.

It doesn't matter, Dave just sells all our stuff.

Gee whiz. Shop all the best selling books out there for just $10 each. Financial Peace University, also at the lowest price of the year at $59.99. Rachel Cruz and all of her wallets and 73 colors. She has more colors of that wallet than Krayola has crayons. All of those are there. And of course, John, speaking of more colors in Krayola, the Quest for Human's 2001 edition, as in the 2000th edition of those cards, those are also available. The popular Christmas edition. I hope there's a Christmas vacation question.

In that bunch. I'm not crazy. Of course there is.

Okay, good. You can get all of those great gifts at ramsysolutions. Com/store, ramsysolutions. Com/store. While you're perusing, hit some of the Ken Coleman products because I have two teenage boys. Is that a sympathy ask? You absolutely.

Better believe me. That's why I head to the woods and bring food home myself because I've got.

One teenager. Well, you got one, and he's got the hollow leg already, I'm sure. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Naverly, your hub for home services. When you want to repair, maintain, or improve your home, stop wasting time scrolling through pages and pages of providers. Naverly is all you need to remember for a nationwide network of local home service professionals. Visit neighborly. Com/ramsey to find a reliable helper near you.

All right, today's question comes from Marie in Arizona. Marie writes, My husband charges me 41% of my pay for rent and utilities. Huh?

What?

Wow. Lovely fella. I think we could.

Stop right there. I do, too.

Wow.

Do you.

Want me to read through? You and I are friends. We hang out. You know how rare it is that I'm speechless. I'm just trying to think of what it would be like if I sat down with my wife and said, I've done the math. You owe me, anyway, I work 30 hours a week and only make $35,000. There's so much wrong here. We went through FPU, so I have been debt-free for years, but my husband has never really been debt-free. You didn't go through FPU. I used about $80,000 to pay my husband's debts to help him be debt-free several times over the past seven years, but he doesn't stay debt-free. He even racked up $14,000 behind my back. I refused to pay the debt off after that. I don't have the money to help him, nor do I want to. We keep our money separate now till he cleans up his debt and learns to handle money. It's hard for me to save money when I'm paying him that much of what I make, but he said, if I had to go rent an apartment, I would pay that much or more. Oh, Jeez. Or more, I feel stuck.

Wow!

This guy needs the whistleball bat treatment.

Yeah, there's very rare.

Smack him around a little bit.

Jeez, this whole thing is a wreck. Marie, if I was you, or you were my sister, or you were my close friend, I would tell you to head directly to a marriage counselor or a therapist by yourself, not a marriage counselor, because he's not going to go, because you're married to a seven-year-old who has access to adult toys and adult financial institutions. I would ask, How do I begin to separate myself from this marriage? Because this is somebody who has cheated on you over and over and over and over again, over and over again. There's no way this doesn't just keep happening. You're right. If you have to go rent an apartment, you'd pay that much more anyway, cool, then that's what I'm going to go do. It's very, very rare that I tell somebody that, but this is somebody that I guarantee you, I'd be willing to, I don't have a lot, but I'd be willing to bet what I got that this isn't the only thing that he is cheating on you. This is not the only way he's cheating on you. Does this feel abusive to you? Yeah, 100%. This behavior doesn't happen if there's not an alcohol issue, if there's not a drug issue, if there's not somebody on the side issue, if there's not some emotional, psychological abuse, this is a wreck.

This doesn't happen in a vacuum like this. Just the language you're using tells me you have had to separate yourself from this marriage while being stuck inside of it to keep yourself safe and keep yourself fed and keep yourself housed. It's time for you to be able to breathe and to walk in your own home and drop your shoulders instead of tensing up even more. I'd go sit with a professional and begin to ask that question. If he comes around and says, Oh, is she serious? Then good on you all. I always love a last second. Everybody decides we're going to be grownups. But, Murray, you're an abusive mess here, and it's time to go sit with a professional ASAP.

John, I'm not a fan of separation. Certainly not divorce. I know there are cases where it needs to happen. This one feels like, I'm glad you told her to go see a therapist. My question putting you on the spot is yes for her, but I would tell her, Tell me if I'm wrong, push back here. I'd tell her in the course of doing that to go ahead and separate for the point of there's no longer going to be you paying him 41% of your pay for rent and utilities. We're going to separate until he gets a- Correct.

-of reality.

Because this is crushing her. That's right. They're already living separately. Do you have a.

Problem with that?

No, in fact- That feels like he needs.

A wake-up call. A 30-day separation just to let the smoke clear is often really good. When you do that, you want to have, for lack of a better term, is a contract. Here's I'm coming back. Here's where we're going to meet for lunch to talk after 30 days. But yeah, this guy's living a delusional life that she has continued to duct tape together for him so that he can keep flexing and walking around Arizona as though he runs stuff. It's time for her to get out of this because this crap escalates and it just gets worse and worse. It's tough. I hate this for you, Marie.

Thank you for the question, Marie. Brian is up next now in Jackson, Mississippi. Brian, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks so much. I hope I've got a fun question here for you. I'm excited about it. My 16-year-old son started off cutting yards. Actually, this past summer cut enough yards that he's sitting with a couple of thousand dollars in his bank account. He bought a zero-turn mower so he could cut more yards faster with his own money. He's done an incredible job, all that while being in band in high school and doing band camp and all the practices and everything that he has with that. So he's doing really awesome with it. And now because of his hard work ethic, the church that we're at has hired him to be their custodian, which is about maybe a 10-hour-a-week job, and he makes $200 a week. So he's got an opportunity as a 16-year-old kid, make really good money between that and his yard business.

Way to go, dad.

Yeah, your dad of the year too, man. Because that stuff doesn't happen in vacuum. He's watched this old man work really hard. So good for.

You, man. Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And he does really well. When he gets busy, he hires his younger brothers, his younger sister to come help him.

Hey, Bryan, we got about a minute and a half. We want to help you out. What's your question?

My question is, I've talked to him about investing, everything with that. He doesn't know for sure what he wants to do about college, but he's got grades and bands, things that will help, a lot of scholarships. But he wants to do something good with this money, whether it's college, whether it's 10 years down the road for a down payment on a house, whatever it is. He wants to be smart because he's going to be making more money than the 16-year-old meets. Yeah. Trying to help him, get him.

Along with that. I would get him a high yield savings account, not just your bank savings account. I would shop around. My wife and I have got a great high yield savings account that's paying us close to 6% right now. I would park that money because of what you just said. He's got a lot of options. I wouldn't be investing that right now. I'd be piling it up, stacking it up in a high yield savings account to get the most out of it. Right now, interest rates are in a really great place for that. So show him how that's working. Just keep feeding that engine. He's tasting it, he's seeing it, and I'd keep feeding it to show him, Hey, right now we're going to stack it so that you can use it any way you want to as we get a better view, if you will, of his future. But you're a good dad, Ryan. It's a good kid right there. I got to get me a zero turn. Problem is I have a post. I got one. It's a lot of fun. I'm coming out to your house this weekend. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, your relationships, and your work. All three of those need to be in sync for you to live a fulfilled, peaceful, enjoyable life. We want to help you do that. The phone number is triple-888255225. Triple-888255225. Dr. John Deloney joins me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are here for you this hour. Let's go to St. Louis, Missouri. Roy is there. Roy, how can we help?

Hello. Hi.

Well.

I guess let me start. I'll start with the worst. I was recently diagnosed with a rare cancer. I have about three and a half to five years life expectancy. My wife and I, just before the diagnosis, I knew this was coming. At the time I had no insurance, we got a medical divorce, and we put everything that I had of value went to her. So the home was in both our names, it is in her name. We had two rental properties that are now been moved to her name. Also a small business that we have that was moved to her name. She took my retirement from a job and what we put together back. We have about $26,000 in credit card debt combined together. I have a student loan for $7,500. We have about $175,000 put back for retirement and about $10,000 in cash. So my question is, what debt should we... We also have HLUK. I'm sorry, he lucked for 40,000. My question is, what debt should we approach first? And if I were to die before my debt was paid off, he would be not responsible for it.

Are the rentals cash flowing? Are they paid off? Are those also debt?

They're debt. They pay for themselves. They cover the mortgage, they cover insurance and taxes, and some basic upkeep each year.

Walk me through. I just want the full picture here for John and I way in. Give me the two rental homes, the debt plus what you think you could get for them today. Let's go rental home one.

Rental home one, I owe... We, I guess, or she owes around $40,000, and I believe it would bring 120.

Okay, number two.

Rental house number two, about older, about $43, and they should bring about $120 as well. They're both exactly the same size, square footage, same footprint.

Let me make sure I heard you correctly, those are spitting off just enough to take care of your basics. You're not really in the profit once you look at improvements and things of that nature.

Maybe altogether, a piece, maybe $1,000 a year.

They clear. $1,000 a year, both of them combined? Clear, yes. Okay. Let me make sure I got everything else. You have the lowest debt you have is a $7,500 student loan. Next is the $26,000 credit card debt, if I got that right? Correct. And 40K in... Excuse me. Thank you. Thank you. We have 10,000 in cash. Are you familiar with our baby steps? Before I walk you through this, I don't want to-.

Yes, I've been listening to this show off and on for several years, and I'm all over the place on the.

Baby steps. All right, so let me just give you the basics, because this is going to walk you through what we would tell you to do. The first thing we say is we put a thousand dollars in the bank, which is just a basic starter emergency fund. You've got 10k right now, okay? Then we would say, baby, step two is we go smallest to largest debts. We pay off the smallest debt first. That's for momentum purposes. That means we would take on the $7,500 student loan. Whatever the minimum payment is on that, we would roll that into the credit card debt next once we paid off the $7,500 loan. We go smallest to largest. That means debt one that we go after first, student loan, debt two, the credit cards, debt three, the HLAC. Does that make sense so far? Yeah. Okay, great. Based on what you've given me, we've got 10,000 in cash. We're going to take 9,000 of that, leaving you 1,000. You still with me?

Yes.

We're going to pay off the student loan as soon as the phone call is over. That still leaves you $1,500. You're still tracking with me? Yes, I am. Excellent. Then we're going to take the $1,500 left over, and we're going to put it on the $26,000 total debt. If those are multiple cards, then you would go at it that way. Do you understand what I'm saying? Is that all one card or multiple cards equaling 26?

Two.

Different cards. What is the debt on each of the two cards?

One is around $11,000 and one is around $15,000.

Okay, great. We're still in order. We take the nine out of savings, pay off the student loan. We have $1500 we put towards the $11,000 credit card. Now that knocks that down to $9,500 if I'm keeping score properly. Now you're off and running. Okay. Now, John, I would sell one of these rentals immediately, if not sooner, and I would wipe out the rest of this, just given the situation with your health and what you guys are trying to do, that's what I would do. You don't have a lot left on these homes, but what I would do is sell one. Now, this is me. John can weigh in here in a second. I'd sell one of these, and if they're both worth around 120, your numbers, 40,000 is what you got left on the first one. That leaves you about 80 minus your realtor fee. Let's just say I've got 65, 60,000. I'm going to pay off the rest of the debt, and if I can, most of the other rental home. You see what I'm saying? I'm cleaning all this up so that my wife has no debt at all as soon as possible.

We're not going to wait three years. We want to get after this now. That's what I would do.

John? I can't emphasize this enough that, like you mentioned that you're all over the place. Who gave you… I've heard of this on the periphery, but you're the first person I've talked to. Who walked you through this medical divorce?

I had been reading about it, and we went and talked to a lawyer, and that's what we came up with. At the time where I was diagnosed, I did not have great insurance at all. When treatment started in 2022, me not being able to work, I had nothing. I eventually qualified for Medicaid, which has taken care of all my medical debt so far. I just wanted to protect her. I had been reading where people, where spouses had died with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in medical debt from an illness. I knew about this illness in 2021, so I was trying to prepare her and myself for the worst possible outcome.

I'm just trying to picture myself having to sit down with my wife and come up with either side of a pretty grim calculation, right?

Yeah, and I'm 56 and she's 62, so she doesn't have quite a few more years to work, and of course, we don't want my outcome in it. I was just trying to protect her the best that I could. I didn't want everything we've tried to save over the years just go away and be.

Able to have her. Are you confident that they won't come after her anyway, or at least try to tangle her up for years in legal proceedings?

Hold on to our lawyer. They cannot come after her because whatever debt I incur now, if I had medical debt, I'm just me.

Wow, what a- Does that make sense? Yeah, it's just such a disastrous state of the world we live in right now that that's the choice. But that's not the purpose of this call. I just want to tell you we love you, and I hate that you're going through this. I mean, you're you're staring on a very short runway here, and I want to applaud you for being noble and trying to think of everything. I cannot tell you this enough. Minimize every and all variables. Sell everything you can, pay off everything you can. Your wife may not want to be a landlord after she loses you. At least give her that rental house paid off. At least give her her current home paid off. Pay off all of your debts that you can. That means, yes, like Ken said, sell one of those homes, clear up every single variable possible. Even if it's not as advantageous, you want to give your wife as smooth a sailing as possible. Tough call.

Thank you, sir. We were praying for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your relationships, and in your work. Triple-888-825-5225 is the toll-free number, triple-888-255, 5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, good pal, Dr. John Deloney. We're here taking your questions. We'll take your money questions, but when we're together. We love to take those work questions, those relationship, mental health questions, all of this stuff is intertwined. No shame in your game today. We're here for you. Triple-888-255, 225. Tucson, Arizona is where we start this hour. Michelle is there. Michelle, how can we help?

Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. My husband and I bought our house about three and a half years ago, and it's a custom in my dad's culture to buy the house for their kids, but he couldn't afford it at the time. Now, three and a half years later, he can afford to pay off our house for us. I'm just wondering if I should take that money and pay off the house or do something else with it.

What culture?

Lebanese culture. Okay.

How much is the payoff?

About.

$320,000. He's got the cash?

Correct.

Man, that's not my culture.

I was going to say.

I need to call my culture committee and get that thing switched, man.

That's incredible. John, can you take the rest of this call? I'm going to go step outside and call my dad.

No kidding. I got a high five when I bought a house. My dad was like, Get them, guys.

That's amazing. Let me ask this. I think I understand your question, but it feels like there's a question behind this question. Yes. Are you concerned about something? Are you wary of how to do it? Tell us what you're rattling around in.

Your head. Are there strings with this money?

Well, the house is in our name already. Say that again. We can't take the house. The house is in our name, so it's not like he can give us the money and take the house or anything. But he does like to brag about giving the money. But I'm not too concerned about that. I just wondered if there was a way to invest that money and take and make an income off of monthly income off that money. I don't know. I'm not very smart with investing.

Well, let me ask you this. Well, first of all, the answer is yes, of course. What was the amount of money again? Three what? Three-twenty. Okay. The question is, is dad giving you a gift of $320,000 to do whatever you want with, or is he giving you $320,000 to pay this house off so that he can tell everybody in my culture this is what we do, and I've now done it?

Correct. Second one.

The first that takes the question off the table that you asked us. It's not an option.

Yeah.

By the way, if I had $320 left on my mortgage and somebody gave me a gift of $320,000, I'd take it. I would put it on my mortgage.

That's a massive investment.

That's the ultimate investment. Then you have freedom. You can do whatever you want. You have no house payment. Right. Then everything you spend on a house payment, you can invest however you want to for the rest of your life because you don't have a house payment.

Yeah, it's.

Pretty neat. Have you ever been in a house that you owned that nobody else could take from you? No.

Yeah, exactly. But hold on a second. I got to bring the good doctorate on here. Now, I may be reading into this, Michelle, tell me. I do not mean being wrong. I have three teenagers and I've been married 25 years. Basically, my whole life have been wrong. But it feels like when we're telling you this, John's laying this out and you're like, Yeah, that's pretty neat. It doesn't feel like you think this is neat. Am I right or wrong?

Well, I mean, it would be nice if we had the money to pay off our own house.

Of course it would. Of course. Do you feel then that is not... Okay, now I think we got something. Is it ego? You don't want this. You want to feel like we did it.

Right. I mean, my dad bought me a car when I turned 18. He's like, You're not touching my car, and that's my car, and don't take my car.

All right, okay, that's the strings we're talking about. If he's going to give you that, and then he's going to say, Whoa, you put your daughter in a nicer school than that. You and your husband say, No, we decided on this public school. He goes, No, I paid your house off. You put that kid... If that's going to be the life you're signing up for, I wouldn't touch that money. Because then you're trading being a slave to a mortgage company to being a slave to somebody who just gave you $320,000 and thinks they just bought a claim into your life.

Yeah. I mean, he says he wants me to have peace of mind. He's actually changed a lot, especially having grandkids now. He's a lot softer around the edge.

But you wouldn't be calling us if you were not nervous about taking this check.

Well, of course. I mean, that's a lot of money.

Yeah, but- He's your dad. How serious is this? Is this him telling you you think he's going to weigh in more and you want him to stop weighing in? Or is this just, I want to be a big girl and do it on my own? Which one is it? Or is it both?

Well, I would like to do it on my own, but at the same time, I'm not going to tell somebody you can't give me $320,000.

All right, but then answer the other issue. You think he's going to give him more entree into your life to make a comment here and there if he does this?

I mean, maybe a comment here and there, but I don't think he's going to... I think he's.

Gotten a lot better. I'll tell you what I would do. -think he's gotten a lot better. You call to get our opinion, yes? Of course. I'll give you mine real quick. That issue lies with me. If I had an opportunity to my dad because of his culture and wanted to give me the money and this was something he did, I would take it and I would go, if he makes a comment at Thanksgiving or makes a comment at Christmas, or he comments on the kid's school, the car we buy, I'm just going to smile and wave. My favorite line from the movie Madagascar, the little Penguin, smile and wave, boys. I'm just going to take the high road and go, $320,000, debt-free house, $320,000. I don't know. I'm going to take you to my professional.

Friend there. That's what I would do unless you know. I'm thinking if Dave Ramsey came to me and said, Hey, John, you've been a faithful employee for X number of years. I'm going to give you $350,000. By the way, you're now on call 24/7/365. I wouldn't take that money. I've been on call for 20 years. I've lived that life. I'm tired. I want to go be with my family. I would tell him, Hey, thanks. I appreciate that. The money would be awesome. I could do some great things with it, but it's not worth selling part of my soul. If he called me in and said, Hey, here's $350,000. You've been a great, faithful employee. I loved your work, and I just see you here for the next decade, and just want to honor you and your family. I would do somersaults out the building, and probably my shirt would fly off as I ran to my car screaming and yelling and cheering. I'd be that happy. Only you know what the strings are with this money.

Right.

If you're saying no because I just want to do it myself, that's ego.

That's what I'm saying.

Flush that down the toilet, man. That's how people stay chained to car payments and student loans. That's ego. My kid got into this school. You can't afford that school. We're going to make it work because that's ego. If it is, no, my dad becomes a third adult in our household, I'm not touching that money.

By the way, if it's not a resentment thing, I would do it, and if I would put up with all of his stories, let him crow, sing, yell, scream about how he paid your house off.

I don't care. I can't think about this. What if you were able to give your kids three hundred twenty? I would be so happy. I would want to tell everybody. 100%. I was able to help my kids out like this.

That's legacy. I don't hear anything, Michelle, that says you shouldn't take the money. I'd take the money. I really would. Maybe do a little monopoly money, humble pie and eat it. I would pay the house off instant. I'd go, Dad, this is great. You're the best.

You're the man. I'm calling my dad right now. Me too.

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The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. The phone number to jump in is triple-8-825-5225. Triple-8-825-5225. Okay, so our fearless leader, old captain, my captain, James Childs, he emailed John and I earlier today. He goes, Guys, there's a viral video that I want to have you guys weigh in on. James, set this up for us because we've not seen it yet. What's going on? Yeah, I came up in one of our content meetings this morning, and it seemed like the perfect thing for you because it revolves around work. It's one of those things where you watch it once and you have a certain reaction, and then as it sinks in, you're like, There's a deeper thing there. I didn't want to set it up too much more than that, but I can watch it. Great. All right, let's roll it. We have to work.

Until we have to die just for the privilege of being alive. We have to work.

Somewhere just.

To afford a house that.

We're.

Never at because we're working to afford the house. Is the meaning of life to work and pay taxes and then die? On top of that, we also have to work to afford.

Our vehicle to get to work in other.

Places and afford gas just to get to work. We also have to pay taxes for our roads to drive on to.

Get to work. Then we have to work for our.

Children.

To go to school to.

Learn how to work so our children know how to work for their children so that their children.

Can go to school and.

Go to work. Somebody tell me.

This is fair. Is it lazy to just want to enjoy life?

Why do we have to work?

Why? I'm stressed. I just check my.

Student loans because I need- Interesting.

This went viral, you said? Yeah. Well, okay, a couple of things. John, I can see the tendency for some to just lay into this young lady and the snowflake-ery and these things. I've seen some of these before and have made those comments, but I got something a little different here. I don't see lazy, spoiled, entitlement, although I could understand if some see that. I see.

A.

Little bit of desperation, and I think I see a whole lot of no understanding. That's not her fault. Here's what I mean by that. I don't think the adults in her life, and I'm not just laying out the parents here, but we adults in her life, whoever we is, we've not done a good job of explaining that there is contribution that is involved with work. Yes, we've got to work for provision. Does that suck? Kind of, if that's the way you look at it. But I didn't see... I saw sadness. I saw a lack of, What is the whole point of all this? I want to enjoy. She goes, Should we enjoy life? I think the answer is emphatically yes. But I think when we see work as just this thing to get a paycheck, and it's going to suck, and I got to just muddle through it. The way she laid it out, I do think that's the way a lot of people look at work. We did a curriculum at Ramsey Solutions that we talked about this with high school students, and I asked about the dream job. I said, What does that mean to you?

To a kid, they said, It's this idea of this thing I'd like to do, but I have no chance of doing it. If you look at that, then the idea of enjoying work and showing up and doing something that is meaningful, when you do your show and you meet people in a place of pain and you step in with them and you give them hope, I mean, that's rewarding. I just don't think she's been taught that there is a reward to work beyond a dollar. I think we've failed in that regard. I'm going to say that.

Yeah, and I think if the only places you work are Solace, Cent corporations, that you know the only thing you're contributing to is a few people at the top getting rich. You haven't connected what you do to you're not solving a problem for somebody. You are a cog in a machine. You are a car in a traffic jam, then that desperation rings true, and I get that. I've had to explain to people who aren't in our ecosystem, I've had to go develop hobbies because I like work, because I've always tried to be about solving a problem for somebody, and I like doing that. Here's when I get crossways and when I'm just sitting with people who struggle with mental health challenges. When I have a day off and I plan, quote-unquote, I'm going to do nothing. I'm just going to do nothing tomorrow. Inevitably, about 11 o'clock, I am about 1,000 calories more in than I normally am. I feel miserable. My neck hurts because I've been laying in Kakamini watching some stupid show that we were not made to do nothing. You say this better than anybody. We're made to contribute to something bigger than we are.

This is a voice, I think, generationally that I wish politicians would listen to. That's right. We don't have a lost generation of quote-unquote, Snowflakes. Because if you work with these, they work hard, and they weirdly care deeply. They just have come to understand, Oh, we are playing somebody else's game. We're contributing to nothing other than getting our boss another retirement home. And I'm out. I'm out.

They've done the math, John. They have. They realize that the average American, they don't walk around saying this, but they've watched their parents and grandparents work what amounts to about 90,000 hours in their lifetime.

They get.

Laid off, they.

Get dropped, they get cancer, and they're like, Oh, this is it. This is what we- I.

Think this group has a chance to transform work as we know it. Absolutely. But as I've said a million-hundred % times, if you spend the majority of your day using what you do best, these are things you're good at, to do work you enjoy to produce a result that you care about. That's really rewarding.

You.

Can't get up and go do it again. You can't. You and I both, we share this. I mean, you stick us on a stage where we're answering questions with real people. We'll stand up there for hours.

Well, you and I fly across the country and leave our families. That's how much we.

Love it. 100%. What is that? For us, that's helping people with that. But for other people, it's welding. For other people, it's teaching. For other people, it's being in a hospital and being bone-tired and taking one more surgery because you know that you can help and you love it.

I sat with some guys from Hiller Electric, I don't know if I called them out. They came to my house when our power went out, and my power is connected to our well. We had no water, we had no power. Those guys wake up every day and say, We can help a family have a better day today. They just keep going and going. They have behind their tooth. Is it hot? Yes. Is it exhausting? Yes. Is it the worst? Yes, and there's a purpose tied to it. That's right. Here's my dream. I wish every leader, whether you have five people working for you or you run a huge restaurant chain and you have 50,000, you're not just making burgers. You're helping this person find a little bit of margin and time and eat so that they can be with their kids. If you connect even your front-level employees to how we're helping somebody today, you just become a part of it.

Here's what I wish I could do. I wish I could hop in the car with her and go, Hey, tell me what you're really good at doing. We'd hear some awesome things and we'd say, Who are the people you really want to help? Or, What are some of the problems in the world that make you upset, and you would be rewarded if you solved those problems. You begin to paint a picture that she has a unique design plus a unique story that tied together. She's got something where she goes, I would actually be really rewarded and fired up to go do that. By the way, make some money, have some life balance, leave work at work, go home. Love all my friends, travel the world, do some cool things, give some of that money to somebody.

Or like Tara, the person who takes care of our calendars. If you ask her, What do you put on Earth to do? To be the best executive assistant who ever lived? Yeah. Those things make me want to pull my fingernails out. I get it. Every day she wakes up and she's like, I'm going to go make this. I'm going to do the best job I can, and then these guys are going to get where they need to go, and they're going to be with their families. It doesn't matter what jazzes you up. It doesn't have to be an Instagram reel. But go find that thing.

Culture, what we've done here, and adults, what we've done here is we've given these kids the wrong picture of life. It's not work 90,000 hours, hope to have enough left over in your 401(k) that that's when I get to enjoy life. We're painting an incomplete picture.

To buy the fanciest car to get you to.

The job. No, it's not. It's work for contribution and adjust your lifestyle of that. I keep coming back to, every time we have these discussions too, the largest millionaire study ever done by Ramsey Solutions and Teachers. A median salary in the United States right now is $61,000, and arguably one of the worst workplaces in America right now, they're leaving in droves, but they're everyday millionaires. Why?

They make peace with the Corolla.

That's it. You nailed it. They make.

Peace with the Corolla. That's it. It's a great car. Get me to and from.

I'm going to help kids. They're fine with it because they know they're turning on light bulbs every day, and kids that they're teaching are changing the world. Appreciate the video, James. That really is a big, grand distraction. Hey, James.

Try to track her down on Instagram. Let's have her on the show.

Wouldn't that be great to actually have her on? That's a brilliant idea. This is The Ramsey Show.

Yo- yo, Dr. John Deloney here. Hey, it's pumpkin spice latte season. Just joking. Those are gross, but it is fall. It's a little cooler. The sun's going down earlier, and God help us. Daylight savings time is ending or starting or whatever. The time is changing again, and it can be exhausting to adjust. Make sure you're moving your body every day. Make sure you get some sunlight in the morning and hopefully in the evening. Make sure you get 7-9 hours of sleep every night. I can't stress enough how important this is. Sleep is the cornerstone to your physical and mental health. For me, amazing sleep starts with an extraordinary mattress. That's why I love DreamCloud. Right now, DreamCloud is running an incredible offer, 40% off all mattresses plus an additional $50 in savings, exclusively for our listeners. Go to dreamcloudsleep. Com and enter promo code John Deloney. That's dreamcloudsleep. Com with code John Deloney for 40% off all mattresses plus an extra $50 in savings. Welcome back.

To The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me, triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five. We're here to help you win in your life, specifically your money, your relationships, mental health, and your works. You can make more money, get in the right seat on the bus, whatever it is, we're here to take your questions today. Triple-8-825-5225. Every dollar is our world-class budgeting app that helps you manage money their amzy way. Every dollar works. Wherever you are, iOS, Android, or online. You can start for free and just get an idea of how easy it is. You get organized, stop overspending, and save more money. If you're new to Every dollar, we'll show you a long-term financial roadmap, track your net worth, your debt-free date, retirement date, baby step progress, and so much more. It's like your awesome mentor right there on your device. We'll coach you to win with money and build wealth. Download the free app for iOS and Android, or go to everydollar. Com to get started. Let's go to Alberta, Canada. Kim is with us now. Kim, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. My question is, how much of my income should I set aside each month to start and build a business so that I can leave my 9-5?

Okay, give us a little bit more of your side business picture. How much is it making? How much are you making in your day job?

I haven't started the business at all.

Oh, okay. All right, so let's look at your current income. What do you make?

Sure. I make 130 a year, and.

My net.

Monthly after I pay on my expenses is $6,000.

Okay, so $6,000 left over after all expenses. Do you have any debt?

I have no debt.

Wow. Okay, what is this business that you're looking to start?

I'm back and forth around two ideas. One is a digital marketing agency, and the other is a property management company for vacation rentals.

Okay. How much time do you see yourself having to put into those businesses? Think of A and B. Digital marketing A and let's call property manager B. How much do you think you have to put into those to get those up and running? Much time. How much time?

Yeah, probably I would say at least 20.

Hours a week. Twenty hours a week. Then how much money?

How much money? I think that my startup cost would be $5,000-$6,000, and then I would have probably $1,500 to $2,000 each month. Just depends if I wanted to run targeted, like Facebook ads or something that would make my cost go up.

Are you single, married? What's your relationship status?

I'm single on my own. I rent a three-bedroom house for $2,300 a month, but then I rent out the other two bedrooms. One is a larger bedroom with two twin beds, and I rent those out for $750 each. Then I have a third single bedroom I rent out for 950. My rental income is like 2,450 a month. Then I pay the landlord 2,300.

Yeah, you're doing great. My only other question is- I drive a used vehicle. Yeah, no, you're amazing. I know that. Before I tell you what I think on this, the 6,000 that you have left over after all expenses, does that include you investing 15% of your income? That does not. Do you have an emergency fund of 3-6 months expenses?

I'm on baby step three right now. Right.

Okay, so I would fully fund baby step three, and then I would move into baby step four and be investing 15%. Once we achieve those two things, then I would save up, you're going to save up very quickly, I think you said $6,000, $5,000 to $6,000, what you think is a startup cost. I would save up the startup cost, and I would also save up six months of operations before I ever launched. I really would. I'm very conservative on that. But the reason is because I want you to have stress-free startup for a side hustle. It's hard enough to start a business. There are so many different potholes that we know that entrepreneurs go through in that first year of the business. I'd love for you to be pretty stress-free to go, This is burn it in the middle of table money. I know that I'm investing in me and this business, and so I've got that set aside. With the margin you have and the discipline you have, I think you can do that. I want to get John to weigh in here. That leads me to this last piece, which is you've got to choose on these, and I would spend some time.

I wrote a book called The Proximity Principle that I'm going to give you as my gift. It just simply says this. In order to do what Kim wants to do, she's got to be around people that are doing it. I want you to have to hang out time with copious notes from people that are running both of those businesses before you choose and before you launch. Does that make sense?

Like sit down, take them for a coffee?

Yeah. Let's say John right here was a digital marketing stud. He'd been in business for several years crushing it. I'd want to sit down with John, lunch and coffee. I'm not doing much talking other than asking questions. I've got a pencil and I've got a notebook, and I'm going, John, how did you start? What cash did you have when you started? What were the hardest things you had to deal with? What were the traps? What are best practices? I'm going to basically do a college-level research paper on, ideally, a couple of people that have won in those two businesses. Let me tell you why. I'm going to get all the information I need from my head, and then my heart's going to ultimately decide, I think. I think you do both of those. Your heart's going to go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, or when you hear the good, the bad, the ugly. John, your thoughts on that?

How does that hit you?

Yeah, that's a good idea. I haven't sat down with anyone in property management. I know some people who run digital agencies, I could talk to them.

Here's what you're probably going to find. You're going to find either they say, I wouldn't do this again for anything. Or they're going to tell you, like when people ask me about my job, I just tell them I feel like I'm running a scam. I can't believe I get paid to do the work that I get to do. The property manager is going to tell you, Dude, it's amazing. It's a headache over here. It's really great over here, but incredible. Or they're going to tell you, Please, for all that is good in the world, don't do this job.

You know what I mean? But if they say that, Kim- Ask them why. -or follow up why. Because what I'm trying to do here is get the head and the heart aligned. The head is the logic.

You think it's going to cost 5,000 bucks. You don't.

Really know. We don't know. We want to have a real good logic. Let the brain do what it does best. Gather information, logically walk through it, but then let the heart decide. You might have someone go, Well, listen, you can make this, you can make this, you can make this. But I'll tell you what, if I had to do all over again, whatever. You go, I don't really care because I'm not wired like you. I think I'd love that. That's the process that I want you to gather, gather, gather, gather, and it's a selection process. Here's the other reality. You might sit down and do both of these and go, It's neither one of these, which by the way, great, because you're still stacking up money, and you've got an entrepreneurial desire in you to work for you, yes? Yes. Then the selection is so important. But a lot of entrepreneurs that we get enticed by opportunity A, opportunity B, and we go, Is it opportunity C? That's what I want you to do.

All right, Ken, I'm going to ask Ken a question. Ken, on your behalf. Is that cool? Sure. Ken, how many people that you've talked to over the years are like Kim? They make an astound, a great income, six-figure income. They've figured out life a little bit, not afraid to have roommates to make the extra money, not tied or identity to a car. Sometimes when we get settled, psychologically, we're not wired for settling, we're wired for perseverance, and we start looking over the next hill. I hear this all the time, quote-unquote, If I could just do this full-time, whatever this is. There's this fantasy that if I wasn't doing this other thing, if I wasn't married to her anymore, if I wasn't living in this house, then what I always tell them is, No matter what you do, you go with you. It might be fun to dream about, and she might even get one digital marketing client and be like, Yeah, but she's making all this from a platform of she makes $135,000 and has health insurance and has all this stuff worked out. How often do you have people jumping ship too soon to this magic land of doing this full-time?

To the tune of millions. It's called The Great Regret. We all heard about The Great Resignation. What people didn't pay attention to is how many millions of people left for a better job, this better life, this better check, all these things. They got there and they were like, Oh, that's not what I was looking for. So it happens a lot, and that's why... It's a great question. That's why, Kim, I really want you to do the work, let the head and the heart connect and align. When you get the ding, ding, ding, then we move. This is The Reentry Show. Guys, let's be honest. Some things should just stay in the 90s where they belong, like boy bands and waking up at 4:00 AM to.

Stand in line.

For Black Friday deals. That's why for this entire week, you get to skip the crowds and find new meaningful gifts for as low as $8 in our weeklong Black Friday sale. From our popular books to questions for human conversation cards, you're going to find something for everyone in your life. So hurry and shop at ramsysolutions. Com/store for early access to our Black Friday sales. That's ramsysolutions. Com/store. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. We are here for you, triple-eight, 825-5225. If you've got any work-related questions, you're not making the money you want to make, maybe you feel like you've been overlooked or you're feeling burned out, those burnout causes you're thinking about next year. John and I love those calls. There's really two sides of that coin. We'd love to take any of those calls, your mental health, relationship questions, Dr. John, in session today, and of course, your money calls. Feel free to call us. We're here to help you guys. Triple-8-825-5225. Colin is up next in St. Louis. Colin, how can we help?

Hi. I'm 25 years old and I had a question on if we should pay off, me and my wife, should pay off our truck or save the money. We have a two-year-old. We got married two months ago, and we have $6,200 left on the truck. Our take-home pay per month is about $5,600. But with another baby on the way at nine weeks, we don't know if we should go into stork mode or go ahead and pay it off.

Yeah, well, congratulations on the little one coming. That's exciting stuff.

The baby's coming in nine weeks or she's nine weeks down the road?

Nine weeks down the road. Okay.

All right, so we've got $6,200 left on the truck. Is that the only debt you have?

We have her car, but we are going on stork mode for her car because it's a little further out.

Well, give me the whole debt picture then real quick.

Okay. No student loans. We're cash flowing that. Basically just the truck and the car, I think we owe $11,000, $12,000 on her car, and $6,200 on my truck. But her car payment is basically 270 a month, and mine is close to 800. Yeah.

Well, we normally give this advice, so we want to make sure we batten down the hatches. We want to be very smart for the baby. What would you say? Do you know what your out-of-pocket would cost for the delivery and all that? Have you done your homework to see, Okay, what cash would we need beyond insurance?

Yes. Her insurance, she's a teacher, so basically her insurance is really good. It's $5,000 out the door, and we have that set aside already.

Well, what do you think, John? I mean, you've got the $5,000. You never know.

Other costs. What do you do for a living, man?

I'm a carpenter. Carpenter.

Let me throw option three at you. I do this thought experiment just for myself. Me and my wife do it all the time. If I ever feel like I have an either or, I always invent a couple of other options just in case. I'm not cornering myself on accident. Let me give you an option three. What if you continued, as a carpenter, to stack money up? We talked about this on an earlier call. Friday after Thanksgiving, you wallpapered your neighborhood with odd jobs. I tell you this. My wife asked me to hang up a couple of ceiling fans and change three or four light fixtures. Then at the top in our upstairs area, a light went out, so I got to get a big lighter to go fix it. If some guy knocked on my door Friday morning and said, Hey, for a couple of 300 bucks, I'll do these odd jobs, I would sign it that second. What if you put a number, you've got nine months, eight and a half months, what if you put... Actually, that's not math, seven months. What if you put a number? I want $10,000 extra dollars. Honey, I'm going to put the gas pedal down, and I'm going to work odd jobs in the morning, in the evenings on the weekends.

So when Baby comes, we will have this cash stacked, and we're going to be debt-free on both cars. Okay.

I guess maybe a caveat to that is I do have the cash from odd jobs to pay off the truck.

Okay. You also have the cash for the $5,000 out the door for the pregnancy and the delivery, correct?

Yes, we have $22,000 liquid at this point.

Dude, lead with that next time.

Pay the truck off. You're fine. I was going to just follow John and say, Look, in your situation financially, I wouldn't stop paying on the truck or car at all. I didn't know you had it in the bank. I'd definitely pay off both today because that's 17, and you still got five left over plus the five for the delivery. You covered for just a standard pregnancy. You're still going to have five left over. What are you paying it? Your car payment, you're getting a big raise from those car payments.

Yes. What are you doing?

I think part of our problem is we're living with my parents right now, so she's ready to nest, essentially, or start nesting and looking at a house or something to rent.

Well, that doesn't change any of the advice we give you because you don't need to be taking on renting and all this stuff if you still got debt and you've got this little situation here. You could pay this off today, then you can go rent, right? Pay it off today and then we go rent because you got a nice deposit.

Get your wife an apartment for Christmas.

Get out of the house. Yeah, I love this idea. John, with the idea of the year.

That's the Christmas present. Merry Christmas. Hand her some keys to an apartment.

Oh, yeah. Buy a fancy box.

Have no debt. Then you're making, what, 6,000 bucks a month, right?

$6,200. Wait, take home is 5,600.

Yes. Not including side jobs.

Right. Okay. John's already painted that picture. I mean, dude, you're a carpenter. Is that what I heard? Yes. Dude, you have more work than you could possibly do.

Yes.

You're making 5,300 take-home with her job and your job?

5,600 between the two of us, and not including… That's me full-time and.

Her full-time. You're not charging enough, man.

Then the side jobs bring in anywhere from five grand a month to nothing.

You're not charging enough, dude.

Well, either way, you know your market out there. I'm hoping that you're charging what the market rate is in St. Louis. But listen, do you understand what we're telling you to do? You cut the check for 17 grand, a check for 11, and a check for 6,200 as soon as the call is over. Now you're going into a second trial with no debt at all. You still got $5,000 in an emergency fund for baby step three, 3-6 months. You already got $5,000 set aside in the Stork fund. You guys are.

Okay, man. Let's get that emergency fund up over the next seven months. I agree.

That emergency fund would be the insurance on anything that would happen.

I'll let her know. I'll let her listen to this. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I was worried. We're worried. Because if we don't have a lot liquid, we feel like we're scared.

We're terrified. If you do what John said and put a flyer up all over St. Louis saying, experience trade carpenter for hire?

Dude. No job too small. You would.

Be.

Inundated. Put it on Facebook marketplace in your neighborhood. Okay. There's a viral- Hang Christmas lights? Yeah, anything. I'll go get your Christmas tree and then I'll come pick it up after Christmas. I'd give you a million dollars for that job. Just kidding. I hate dealing with an old Christmas tree. But it's just like endless amounts of work right now. If you'll go out and get it and you sound like somebody who hustles. But here's a rule of thumb. If you can enter into this next kid, you've got $10,000 in the bank plus the five that you've already set aside. This is you earning another 10 grand, right? You're able to find an apartment that you all can afford. Don't go get something knucklehead, but you all have an apartment you can afford. You're just good to go. You have no debt. You don't owe anybody anything. You got $10,000 at three months emergency fund. You got a new place, and you've got all the thing.

Paid for. Let me give you a little nugget here. I think this may help, Colin. If your wife is like, Hey, I don't know about paying off the $11,000. Just say, Hey, babe, this is how much of a raise we're going to get when we get rid of those two car payments. That's going to go towards your new apartment. Like Bob Barton, you see that? You see where I'm going? Because she may push back on that, but you got 22 in the bank. You're still going to have five left over? By the way, babe, it makes it easy for us to afford that apartment. She's going to be so thrilled to have her own nest. That's how you win that deal if there's a little pushback. I don't know if that's going to work or not, but it feels like it would work.

I just think it'd be pretty good.

She wants a nest.

It'd be pretty cool.

Yeah.

One time I rented a house. My wife thought she was coming to move into a residence hall, and I rented a house. It's one of my greatest Christmases ever. I got good spokes on that one. It was just a gift. I put a Christmas tree in it and said, Merry Christmas. Pretty good.

Such a romantic, Dr. Deloney.

That's what they used to call me, theof the Romanian. No one's ever called me that.

Never. Not one time. Never. Ever. All right, folks, great hour. Thanks to James Child, our fearless leader, and my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. And you, America, this is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your relationships, and your work. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, Triple-A-8255, 225. I got to point out, John, we have a fabulous studio audience today, great looking group of people that have traveled in from all around the country waving at us. I want to remind you folks that we're here Monday through Friday. Check the schedule at ramsayslusions. Com. We'd love for you to come by on your way to whatever you're doing, or if you just want to come hang out with us, you're welcome. We've got free coffee and baked goods. It's always fun getting out and saying hi to the good folks that are in the lobby.

One even showed up here with a George Camel T-shirt on. I don't even know what to... Psychologically, I don't even know what to make of that.

Then it got worse because then we had to pose with it.

Oh, man. George is going to print the picture of us posing with the dude wearing his shirt.

It's true. We're never going to hear the end of it.

He's going to put it up in his.

Living room. It's really true.

It's a whole thing.

It's really true. Anyway, we had to swallow our pride for that. But that just proves we'll take a picture with anybody, because if you weren't a George Camel T-shirt and we take a picture with you, the bar doesn't get.

Any lower. There was an Ohio State person that you ushered.

Them off the stage. They were very kind. She was very kind. She was very kind. That's true. It's the week of the big game. It's Turkey week, hunting week for John Deloney. It's all of it. How many hours are you going to be in the woods this week?

Do you have an over, under? I basically am feral from now until Christmas.

Okay, I like that, folks. He did shower. I can tell you I'm in close proximity. I hosed off. He smells delightful. Let's get to the phones. Jack is with us in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City. Jack, how can we help?

Hi, guys.

Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up?

Okay, so about last August, my girlfriend and I bought a house together. We're not married. I'm 26 years old. She's 24 years old, and we are now separating. We bought the house with 385,000. We put 5 % down. And so now there's about $26,000 left on the mortgage or in equity, and 360 left on the mortgage. And so basically, my question is, I'm torn between selling the house and either trying to buy her out through a loan assumption or a loan modification.

Sell the house and get out. Get out. Sell the house and get out.

Get out.

Okay. You both are on the... You both are on the home, right? The loan?

Yes, we are.

Where is she at on this? Have you had a conversation?

Yeah. She's basically whatever I wanted to do. She wants to get out as soon as.

Possible as well. Sell the house and be done. You're 26 years old and you'll have another house. Because here's the alternative. If you meet somebody and you get married, is she going to want to move into your old girlfriend's house? No. No, probably not. Yeah, sell your house, dude. Learn your lesson. Don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to. I was going to say, Jack- I mean, if you're able to sell this house and just split that last little bit of equity with her and you all walk away, you have dodged a bullet like the Matrix, man.

Okay. Yeah, I've had some realtors come by. We bought the 385, and they want to list it for $450, and they think it could sell anywhere between $450.

And $500. I would have it listed by this weekend. Yeah.

Get out of this thing quickly. Jack, don't ever do this again.

I won't.

I learned my lesson.

Good. If you can learn this lesson and make a little money on the side, congratulations. Sorry about your breakup. I know it's painful, especially holiday weekend. That's no good.

Yeah, five years, mother in college. Yes, that hurts, man.

I'm sorry about that. Hey, my breakup in college wasn't near as bad as this one, but I went to Vince Gill. I went to Vince Gill songs. I don't know if it's a... I did. He's got a great song, I think I've been trying to get over you or something like that. I may have messed.

It up. I think Jackson more a Cardi B guy.

You.

Think so? I just made that up. I think so, too. I don't really know who Cardi B is.

But I was going to say, I'm impressed that you even got that name out. That's great. Let's go more your neck of the woods, shall we? How about Waco, Texas? Marty is there. Marty, how can we help? Hello, Marty.

Hey.

Marty. There we go.

Hi.

Gentlemen. I tried calling last week on the... Had me calling this week. I spoke to a Smart Vester Pro this morning. The big thing I'm trying to figure out right now is making a career change. I'm looking at possibly starting my own business right now. And that way I could try and create some more margin and reduce my working hours.

Okay, so what's the business?

I want to start my own private security company.

Private security?

Yes.

Sir. Okay. Have you any experience in that field at all?

I do.

Okay. I'm going to be asking a lot of dumb questions, which is probably good for somebody as clueless about this business as I am. What licensing? What do you need? Do you already have it? Is that going to take a while? Give me the qualified answer.

Yeah, so to sign up, I already became my own private security agency. That was free for me because I'm a veteran. I got my most basic level for security, which doesn't allow me to carry a file, even though I have my LTC, which is weird. Either way, to be that's a non-commission officer, I want to actually like start doing real security work. I would want to get my firearm, my commission officer, which allows me to become a firearm. Eventually, I would want to work up to the top level, which is personal bodyguard.

I imagine you've done a bunch of napkin math. Have you called some guys who actually own security companies who run with these guys? Because the guys that I know, I've only know a couple of them, all I hear them talking about is how hard it is. People don't show up. It's just tough gig. Have you talked to those guys and had coffee with them and taking notes?

I've tried to. I've gotten a hold of multiple people that either friends know or I know and all that, and they all say, Oh, yeah, I'll get back with you. I never hear back.

Let me ask you this. Are you planning to just be sole provider, meaning just you, your services? Are you trying to staff up right away?

No. At first, it would just be us. I want to manage show just me. All right. I would like to grow and expand.

We got about a minute and a half. What's the heart of your question? What did you need our advice on then?

Well, I'm just trying to figure out. I'm going to be done with Baby Step 2 here in a few weeks. I'm working on Baby Step 3B as well as looking to try and.

Move into a different area field. What are you doing now and how much you make?

I make 41 working as a park ranger for Texas State Parks. I also make another 12,000 working as a factory worker at night. And then I do a bunch of odd jobs.

All right, so you know what I would do? I would try to replace the factory worker at night and some of the other odd jobs with this private security detail, because.

That's a lot better money. Concerts, ball games. That's right. Call Baylor University and start working.

Some of their game security. And then the answer, Marty, then you move on from your $41,000 job as soon as you can replace the $41,000 in income through security, which I would guess is pretty quickly. Get busy, offer your services, get out there. But I think that's when you make the move. But keep the day job until you can replace that income with a security job. And then don't look to hire a bunch of people quickly. Get really good and premium pay on your own. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. And I want to remind you that.

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That includes features like Bank Connect, paycheck planning, and so much more. Go to everydollar. Com/black Friday to get that deal now. That's everydollar. Com/black Friday. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in is triple-888-85-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, John Deloney joins me. We're here to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships, your mental health, whatever you want to ask about. We're not going to make football predictions for Thanksgiving Day that we will not take those calls. Just want to point that out. Let's go to Alesha now who joins us in Seattle, Washington. Alesha, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I really.

Appreciate it. You bet. What's up?

I'm in nursing. Well, getting ready for nursing school right now. I'm working as a CNA, making decent money. However, I'm working the baby steps and I'm finding it hard to get a way to bring in new income. That way I can just pay down debt as fast as I can without losing it. I'm just wondering, the first question is, should I sell my car? I don't know if that's a stable idea or not. I'm just wanting some advice.

On it. Okay. Tell us about how much you owe on the car and what do you think it's worth.

I owe $14,420, and I'm getting estimates from about $6,000-$9,000. I'm wondering, would it be worth it to just have freedom if I pay off that 4,000, or should I just keep the car being that I'm about to start nursing school? I don't know where I'm going to be traveling, or should I just suck it up and ride Metro?

Well, that's interesting. I was going to ask that next. The car is only worth 6,000-9,000, the 0.014. You'd have to obviously go get another smaller loan, which would certainly save you a little bit of money.

I would say keep.

The car. I'm thinking that too.

Because Metro is notoriously unreliable for time. If you have a shift that you have to be at, that's going to be really.

Tough to do. What is your Metro situation? Are you close in to where it's a lot more reliable? Or is John right? Is that a sketchy situation?

Right now, I'm pretty close. I'm only about maybe three miles from work. The only thing is I'm looking for new work because the Grace has left for the job I currently do, but I can't just jump ship because it's currently up for all of my bills. I'm waiting for something that can actually do that.

What other debt do you have?

I have credit card and student loans and a little bit of medical bills.

All right, give me the numbers. Go smallest to largest.

The smallest is the medical bills. That's about 3,000. Credit card is 5,000, and my student loans are 15, 1,378. Okay.

What you said was you're just not able to make much headway based on what you're making now. What are you making now? Is it a CNA?

Before or after?

You tell me, It doesn't matter to me. Give me your after.

When I come home is roughly $3,000 to 3,400. If I work overtime, I can do that, but it's hard to do overtime because I'm.

In school. In school. That's pretty tight, isn't it? $3,000 take-home.

It is a little tight. Yeah.

How much more schooling do you have?

A little bit over two years.

Wow. You have no other time during the week where you can work to make some more income?

Not really. I'm not in past my classes.

Okay. This is real time thinking through this. I wonder if you paused the nursing classes. Would that set you behind? That's an ignorant question because I don't know how those programs work. But if I could pause- It would. -it would set you back?

It would because I've already wasted two years not doing what I should have done. That's why I'm being so intense about it now because I know this is between me and my next career step is actually finishing nursing school.

Okay, so I hear what you're saying, so let me say it this way. Let's pretend you're running a marathon. The first two miles of the marathon, you got pretty slow, and you were talking with your friend, and you were just absorbing everybody cheering. Then you realized, Oh, no, I'm way behind my pace. You just started sprinting as fast as you could go. You would make up miles three and four pretty quick, and then at mile five, you would collapse and crash. What I would want you to do is to slowly pick up the pace over 26 miles. And so you feel like you've wasted two years? I bet you a million bucks you didn't waste it. Even if you learned something really important about yourself and about what you want and about who you're going to be and your purpose, you didn't waste it. You may not have invested it the way you would have wanted to invest that time, but it's your life. You did what you did. It might be, and I've counseled countless students on this. It might be, Hey, if I took six months off of this program and just worked 20-hour days, just worked every place who would hire me, and I got this debt paid off, then I could breathe, and then I could be fully into these nursing program.

Then actually, when it comes to Mile 26, five years from now, you'll be way further ahead than you are right now. Do you see what I'm saying? You feel like you have to catch everything up in two years, so you can get on this thing and make this money and go, I want you to play a 10-year game, not a two-year game.

Alicia, that's why I asked the question. I don't mean set you back emotionally. I mean, set you back professionally. You can pick back up is my point. If you had to pause, you can pick back up. Yes? Yeah, I could. All right, so hold on. I know you're not believing you have a John's 100% right. Let's just run the numbers. Can we play the numbers out real quick? Sure. All right, let's just assume, for this example that you've paused nursing school. With you working overtime, busting it, how much debt do you think you pay off each month? Give me a number that's... Be modest. Don't be too aggressive here. Give me a modest number that you think, if I was working overtime, like John said, how much money could I put towards debt each month? What's the number?

If I really went at it, I'm thinking close to 1,000 because what I used to do is just get a second job. But school is in the way of.

That right now. That's awesome. Let's just say you can do 1,000, and I know you can.

I know you can do it.

I think you can do more, but I like the modest number. Based on that and your numbers that you gave me, you're paying off the $3,000 medical loan, the credit cards, and the $14,000 on the car, that's 22 grand. That's 22 months. Nursing is still going to be waiting on you. In fact, it's wide open. The field they need nurses like crazy. No one's going to judge you for taking a 22-month pause. Nobody. You're going to be able to jump right back in to John's point, though, and he's right. You either do that or you're going to be really intense just trying to survive the next two years.

Here's a crazy thing that happened to me. My dad was a policeman and then became a minister, and money was super tight my whole childhood. The way I tried to solve that, I saw what happened to him, and I said, I don't want that to happen to me. I chased a whole bunch of degrees so I could make a whole bunch of money. What I ended up doing, because of my fancy degrees, allowed me to make more money, I dug a way deeper hole than my dad could have ever dug for himself. If you go on this trajectory for two years, Ken and I are looking at your numbers, you're going to have to end up falling backwards on a credit card. You are one flat tire away, one transmission issue away, one I got COVID, I got the flu, and I had to miss a thing. There's no way you can make these bills. You're going to get two years from now, and you're going to have dug yourself a deeper hole than you have right now, which means you're going to have to go make more money. Then somebody's going to say, Well, let's just get your master's in nursing.

Because I've lived in this community, I know you guys, and you all are all about education and improvement. Dude, 22 months Ken just mapped it out. I bet you can make a plan for 18 months. If you went right now in January and you took one semester and the next year off and just said, I'm going to be so maniacal about getting this debt paid off so that I can start January of 25 completely debt-free and waltz right into... You're going to be standing six inches taller because nobody will have claimed to you. You will be on your own two feet. I know 18 months feels like a million years after you just feel like you blew two years, I don't think you blew two years. I think you survived two years. There's always a treading water season for all of us in our lives, and now you're back on it. But that's just, again, I've just counseled too many students who go so hard, they dig themselves such a... It's like hitting the gas in a mud puddle. You end up just digging a bigger hole that's harder to get out of. That's my fear for you because your margins are so tight right now.

What do you think, Alicia?

They are tight. Everything feels tight.

We want you to be free.

From that. Yeah, I want you to breathe at night.

I don't think you're trading two years. I think you look at it as I'm trading two years. I think you're trading some peace of mind. Then when you get into nursing, even more peace when you're actually working and you're actually enjoying the work and stacking cash. That's what we're asking you to do. Bust it hard, pause nursing for the 18 months. I think you can do an 18, maybe less. Then you enter into that full-time nursing job, you're debt free. That's what we want for you. Hopefully, you'll go do that. We believe you can do it, Alicia. Thank you so much for trusting us. You're going to do great. You're going to help a lot of people. This is The Ramsey Show.

Here's the thing about investing advice. You can find it just about anywhere, but that doesn't mean it'll always help you with your personal goals. Here's another option, check in with a Smart Vester Pro. These financial advisors can review your plan or help create one that's.

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To find a Smart Vester Pro in your area, go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Go to ramseysolutions.

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Participating Pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Dr. John Deloney. The phone number to jump in is triple-8825-5225 or 5. Our scripture of the day is from Romans 12:10. Be devoted to one another in love, honor one another above yourselves. Our quote of the day, and this is fitting, We lost one of the great ladies in America yesterday, Roslyn Carter, President Jimmy Carter. What a couple. I don't know how long they've been married. It escapes me right now. I want to say it's close to 70 years. I could be wrong on that. I never had a chance to meet her. I had the privilege of interviewing President Jimmy Carter on the very first radio show I ever did. Crazy story about that. But I don't care where you fall on the political aisle. You're talking about two of the kindest, nicest, humblest people on the planet. I was sad to see that Rosaline Carter.

Passed away. Yeah, and it's a couple that just dedicated their lives to serving other people.

Yeah, I mean, the guy's presidency, historically arguably, people criticized him, and he did maybe his greatest work, post-presidentcy, which speaks to the man. She was right there with him. Anyway, great people. I know the people of Plains Georgia, any Georgian right now, proud of Jimmy and Rosaline Carter. Anyway, the quote from Rosaline Carter, Do what you can to show you care about other people, and you will make our world a better place. I think she modeled that. It's as.

Clear as it gets. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah, so fantastic. All right, let's go to Phoenix, Arizona now. Jesús is there. Jesús, how can we help?

I had a couple of major questions, but main question I did have is me and my wife are just starting on the baby steps.

Welcome to the CULT, man. Welcome.

I.

Said, welcome to this wild crew, and.

You're.

Thrilled to have you. I'm glad to have you.

Yeah, welcome. How can we help you? You threw me off.

Sorry, man.

Sorry. You're doing great. Thank you.

You're doing great. I'm excited to have a new gang member, dude. It's awesome.

So what we want to try to do is instead... I know in Baby Steps One, it's said to do a thousand dollars in our emergency fund. And I've done debt collections, customer services, sales for 10 years. My wife, she doesn't know anything about how well to do her finances because I've helped her whenever she moved down here to Arizona. But now we're just starting with the baby steps. We're already married. We've been married for over two years now. We've been together for over 10 in general. So whenever where we started, we're debating a thousand to save into a savings account and leave that alone for emergencies. In our mind, we want to try to at least do at least a month or three months worth of all of our bills into one for savings for that total amount, and then start with the snowball or the avalanche effect to paying off our debts.

How much do you owe, man?

Grand total, about 67,000.

What do you make?

Both of us together, 72,000.

Okay, so you have- We.

Have benefits. We have certain benefits of our companies, the one that we do because we both work at the same place. We carpool, so it saves us money.

We.

Also get added benefits like an extra $20 per $40 for us for Walmart run, since we have those. But in regards to that, we're just trying to debate where to start and what.

To start with. Yeah. The fact that a $20 benefit is something that you guys hang your hat on. It's not a bad thing. That tells me how much you're treading water. When I look at 67 in the hole and 72, you all are leveraged almost dollar for dollar. Your chest is pretty tight, isn't it?

Somewhat, but it changed. We've actually originally changed a lot of that. I used to be over the road trip driving. I used to usually make $15,000 to $2,000 a week, and that was nothing. My wife would be at home, she would work, or we would go on vacation together, technically her vacation, my job. So we go over the road five months, that thing. I did have a truck, an old Dodgeman I used to have that was $858 per month. So I got rid of it, traded in for a new vehicle that I purchased a couple of months ago, and took that out of the plays room where it's not $858 a month. Now it's 437 a month instead of saving me about.

A couple of hundred bucks. It does. But you're still playing a month-to-month game. For the baby steps to work, you have to literally throw out everything you know. This is not a math problem. What I would suggest to you, with all due respect, like high five, I'll buy the next round. It's not me talking down to you. It's just two dudes across the table from each other at the bar, right? The way you've done it hasn't worked. When you think of only having $1,000 in emergency, that should scare you to death. It's intentional because we're not doing a math game here. We're doing a psychology game. Because the math game is so rigged in all these other businesses' favor that a $20 shopping credit to Walmart makes you feel like a benefit. Or, Hey, I went from an $800 payment down to a $400 payment. Look who's winning now. I'll tell you, the finance department at the car dealership that's selling you depreciating assets continues to win. When we say a thousand dollars, that is in case a tire blows, that's in case something, we just need to hobble down the road as fast as you can.

What we're doing is we're... That's why we say smallest to largest is the snowball method here. We're not looking at the Avalanche stuff and what do you have the highest interest rate, and all that nonsense because that's a math game, and math games don't work. Look at America, we're broke. The only game that works is a psychology game, and if you pay off one little bitty credit card, you see the light at the end of the tunnel gets a little tiny, a little bit brighter. Then you pay off the next one, you pay off the next one, and you get an ad in the or in the mailbox and you're like, Forget this, and you get the next one, and you start to get these little bitty wins. That's little wins are the key to psychological health. It's the key to marriage health. It's the key to financial health. You thinking you went from 800 to 450, like you won, you technically improved your financial position. A car dealership still owns, my friend, Jesús. Because if you get sick tomorrow, they're going to want their money. If your boss says, Hey, I need you to cut some corners and do something a little bit shady, they want their money.

If they don't, they're going to come to your house and take your car from you. You see what I'm saying? Ken and I, Ramsey, we're playing a whole different ball game. That is what is the quickest path to absolute freedom. Nobody owns Jesús, period. That's what we're aiming for. You see what I'm saying? Totally different ball game. We've helped millions.

And millions. Is trying to basically pin-pinch some of the stuff that we can provide, but also, hey, you only have this as a merchant fund. All the rest you need to get rid of... Get rid of that car. You need to get rid of that SUV- Now.

You're talking- -and get rid of the.

Motorcycle.

Payment. Now you're.

Talking paces.

Here's what happened. I already paid off my student loan debts already whenever I was doing over the Excellent.

Good work, man. So you got it in you, dude. You got it. You just got to start following a plan.

Here's what happens. The intensity that you have to run with after this debt and the intentionality of the baby steps together, it gives you tremendous momentum. Here's the deal. Let me just answer this practically, too. Because if you have to dip into that $1,000 emergency fund, you have to wipe it out and then build it back up. There's going to be some life emergencies, but it's the intentionality and the intensity that you have to get after it, which is what you win the day. You don't try to game the process. The reason Dave put it in place like this is because statistically it works.

Jesús, you're a guy that goes to the gym every day and you lift every day. Here's what you need. You need a plan that you can follow because you're already in it. You could do it. Hang on the line. We're going to give you Financial Peace University online lessons as our gift, and we're going to hook you and your new wife up with every dollar the greatest budgeting app on planet Earth. I want you to watch these videos, follow them to the letter, and my brother, you're going to be debt free. Okay, go get them.

Good stuff. Dr. John Deloney, I'm Ken Coleman, James Childs, and all the guys in the booth. Thank you guys for keeping us on the air. America, thank you for tuning in. We do this for you. It is The Ramsey Show. Dr.

John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.