This is the Ramsey show. Welcome aboard. We're here to help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. Triple 8825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour, and she'll be taking the money questions. I'll jump in on the income questions related to your work. You ready to go, miss Rachel?

Oh, yeah, Ken.

Summertime, summer, summer, summer time here we are. We are here in June living it up. And the weather could not be nicer in middle Tennessee. A nod to our lovely studio audience out there. Great looking people today from all around the country. So let's get to it. Michael is going to start us off in Columbus, Ohio. Michael, how can we help today?

Yeah, hey. I'm pretty much drowning in debt. I'm 27 years old, and I got about 350,000 in my house that I owe and about 120,000 in eight different accounts that I'm owing. And I'm just kind of trying to figure out what the best route is. They have a 401K loan, I have doctor bills. I have 8000 ir's. I have two personal loans, one auto loan, one travel trailer loan, and 20,000 on a credit card.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so how did you get here, Michael, what's kind of the backstory? What's caused all this?

I think previously I didn't make much money, and then I got a job where I started making more money. I just started spending more, and then I think it became a habit, and then I started trying to pay off my debt. So I started consolidating debt with a loan. Paying that off or not paying it off, I'd consolidate it and then rack up all my credit cards and finance more stuff. And then I consolidated again, and I probably did that two or three times. But now I'm kind of. I'm right at the edge, I would say.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's. You're bumping. Yeah. Half a million dollars in debt, including a mortgage. So the consumer debt is what I would probably what I want to talk to you about, first and foremost, because this is. Where are you behind on payments?

No, I've been making payments and I've tried. I'm pretty much minimum and all my payments, other than one loan, which I was doing the snowball before, and then I pretty much fell off of that. And I'm just kind of. I'm at a point where I'm just kind of like maxing out.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm just trying to figure out where's the basic beginning. First steps are of this.

Okay. What kind of. What kind of career are you in now? How much are you making?

I'm in energy and utilities for my lineman. So I'm probably. It kind of floats depending on over time. But the last two years, I made about 180.

Wow. Yeah.

Income is great. There's no question. You've got a good income and you've got some potential future here. This is. This is getting control.

Yeah. Of you, Michael. I mean, that's what it is. I'm like, it's a. And it's a. And in your case, it is that classic example of people that have the issue, right, of debt, not controlling the behavior and thinking mathematically they can work their way out by getting into more debt with a different interest rate or, you know, trying to kind of move the puzzle pieces around. But at the end of the day, it's. Yeah, it is you. And so, I mean, we can sit here for sure and kind of talk through some of this on a logistical side, but I think the head knowledge, I think you may have. Michael, you said you were doing the snowball at one point. I think for you, there just has to be this I've had it moment, and you just haven't had it yet. This could be it as we're talking and where you're at currently, why you called in. But there has to be enough pain in your present situation for change to occur. And. And that's gonna be my biggest thing with you, that, though, there's gonna be a plan, and it's gonna be long and excruciating, and it's gonna take a lot more hours that you're gonna be working.

It's gonna be your. Your life is going to look 180 degrees different than how it does today in order for you to get out of this. Are you committed to do that kind of change?

Yeah, I think I am. I'm. I just had two kids. I got 202, so.

Oh, wow.

I mean, I can't. I can't be living like this.

Yep. Totally.

What's your biggest need? I know what you started the call with, but what do you really need help with? Because you. I think Rachel just nailed you really well, and so what is it that you really want from us today?

What I want. What I want from you all is to kind of help me figure out the best route I can do this. Ultimately, what I want is time with my family. I'm sick of working, you know, 60 to 80, 90 hours, weeks. I want to. I want to get back down to 40, 50 hours a week and just get. Be able to live on that.

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

So I love that. That's a good target.

Yep, for sure. So I think, Michael, you know, the debt snowball like we talked about, because you listed out a lot of debts at the beginning of the call. So what I would want you to do is sit down and list all of those out, the total of them, and the smallest amount. Not payment, not interest rate. The smallest amount to the largest amount. So this could be. And your credit cards. $20,000 of credit cards. If it's multiple. Multiple credit cards, split those totals up. Right. I mean, per each credit card is its own debt. And list that out. And what I would say is, I think getting quick wins for you guys. Michael is going to be huge. And I say, you guys, because your wife. Are you married?

Yes.

Yeah. I mean, your. Your wife has to be as committed as you are in this. Where is she at with everything?

She's, to be honest, like, I've been. She's a stay at home mom, and I've been. I would say she's more in the dark about everything. I need to be more open with her.

What's your spending situation? Are you guys spending way too much, or have you already started the process of tightening the belt?

I've. I believe I've been tightening the belt. She has been, too. We still.

Yeah. By the way, in the way, you said that if this were a court of law, I'd be all over this. As a lawyer, you just said, I. I have. Which that tells me what's really going on. And Rachel just pointed it out.

Yeah. So. So, Michael, I think there's two big things as we leave this call. Cause I don't think we're gonna be able to solve all of this in, you know, one segment here on the show. But two things I want you guys. The biggest piece is gonna be the relational piece, Michael. And when you said that she's in the dark sum, you're gonna. You're gonna have one of maybe the hardest conversation you've had in marriage thus far. And I want you to rip the band aid off, and I want you to be a thousand percent honest, down to the penny. And she's probably going to be pissed. She's going to probably feel a level of betrayal, probably a level of, I've been in the dark. How has this been happening? And I had no clue. I mean, you're going to go through some crap, but that is one of the most beautiful things that can happen for you guys. I mean, honestly. Because finally, it's off of your plate. Michael, I can't imagine what you've been carrying around. I mean, the amount of stress and everything has been on you. And that's not to her fault.

She doesn't know. But. But there's gonna be something about bringing all this to the light, Michael, for you. Instead of you trying to manage everything. And pay the payments and do the thing work extra and figure it out on your own. That you have a wife. And you guys can be a team in this. And it's gonna be really hard. But I'm telling you, it's one of the best things that you guys can do together in your marriage. You may need some marriage counseling after this.

I'm seriously, I was gonna say, can we. Let's help them. Can. Let's do every dollar premium.

Well, I was gonna do a couple things at the end. Yeah.

You're gonna jump in.

Well, it's just.

I'm Kris Kringle over here.

No, it's just the two things. So the conversation, Michael, with your wife is really important. That's number one as we leave this call. Please do that. Number two, you need some quick wins. You had a car loan that maybe you may just need to sell the car. Get a quick win on that. Do the math. If you can't pay it off in twelve months, get rid of the car. There was some kind of trailer loan or something. And if you sell that, like, you guys need some momentum starting. And some of the best ways you can do that is sell stuff that you have dead on. So do those things, but also stay on the line. Because Kris Kringle, what are we going to give you?

Every dollar you need. We're going to get you an FPU. So I want to line you up with one free coaching session with one of our financial coaches. This will be therapy 101. And kind of get the therapy process potentially started. But a real coach is going to walk you through how you guys walk out of this going forward.

You guys can do it.

Hang on the line. We'll take care of you. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We are here for you to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships. And I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225 triple 8825-5225 Lindsey is going to join us now right here in our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee. Lindsey, how can we help today?

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I am writing in with a relationship money question, actually. So, back in college, my parents loaned me about $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to help me pay for college under the agreement that I would pay it off within three years of graduation. Fortunately, I was able to do that. But after listening to many, many episodes of your guys show, I feel a little bit taken advantage of. And my question is, is it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now, despite the loan being paid back, or do I just accept the lesson, don't borrow from family and try to do better with my own kids going forward?

Okay, I'll start because I think I represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is you think they took advantage of you based on what you've laid out, you.

Know what you're getting into, right?

It doesn't sound like they took advantage of you. So what are we missing that makes you feel like they took advantage of you?

Correct. So I knew the full amount when I signed for it. You know, they told me things like, you can go get a loan from a bank, but God forbid something happened while you're paying them back. You know, were your parents, we would be much more understanding of that situation should it present itself. And I guess it's the whole charging interest thing that I guess doesn't sit right.

Okay, another question. You've paid this all back, as I understand it. Correct.

Correct.

When did you. When did the tension arise over the interest in the middle of it? Before you started paying it back or after you got done with it? Paying the whole thing.

More so. After, yeah, more so after I got done with it, you know.

How long after you got done with it?

It was about a year after.

What changed? What changed? So I'm digging here on purpose. Rachel, thank you for giving me a little. It is a very fair question, so let me explain it to the audience and to you one time, and then I want you to answer this.

Mm hmm.

So you paid it back. You paid back the. The full 18,000 and about three grand of it was the interest? Is that what I'm understanding?

I was 18. Three of it was interest.

That's what I'm saying. So, okay, so you paid it all back. All right. And a year after you paid it back, at some point, at some day, a year after you paid it back, this started to bother you. So that tells me something happened. What happened? Or dare I ask who happened?

So it. I got married a year after, a little over a year after I graduated college, and my husband and I were talking about it, and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan.

And you believed him all of a sudden?

Yes.

Had it occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes? Be honest.

Sure.

It had occurred, yeah. You telling me at some point you were like this? I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a little. This is a bit shaky.

No, no, no. Sorry. Sorry. I misunderstood your question.

I know I'm playing lawyer. I watch too many television shows. There's no point. The husband said this, and because of his understandable influence on you, and probably just by his sheer reaction, which he's, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything. So I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now. I've gotten everything I need to know. Okay? So my opinion is it's too late. And I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did. I don't like how he said it because I think he should have been wiser and more mature. And if he was on the phone, I'd tell him this. He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact, and only from his point of view. And so, for that reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents. And I think you need to figure out how to process this.

Maybe it's therapy, but to create tension now, to me, seems foolish.

Yeah. I think what's hard for me, Lindsey, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you, is because everything was upfront. If you had called, and we've had these calls of people called, they said, oh, my gosh, we pulled my credit report after I got married to buy a house, and I had a student loan on there. My parents took out a loan. I remember signing papers at 18, but they never told me, you know, that's deceitful, parents. That loan with strings attached that we'll give you this money, maybe for a down payment on a house, but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the grant. You know, there's strings attached in relationships. It's kind of gross like this sounds like even though we're not for. You're exactly right. We are not for family members loaning money, period. But the way they did it, Lindsey, it sounded very clear, very upfront. And the reason they did it, from what I hear, is they did it from a situation that is less risk with the loan being held to them. It was not a, hey, we're gonna give you a deal.

We're gonna charge you. And now if the three. If the $3,000 was unreasonable interest. Right. If they're charging you 50% interest and they're taking advantage of you, that's gross and weird, but did they do that? They pulled the average interest rate, and they just said, hey, just do the loan with us, because if something happens, their words will, we can give you grace, period. Like, it won't hurt you financially, you know, that's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical. You're going to get a deal from us. We're going to give you this half off. So? So, Lindsay, I don't think they took advantage of you. I think you knew exactly what you were signing up for. And I think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved. But it wasn't a financial deal on their end. It was just a, hey, here's this.

Did they charge you the going rate on interest? I mean, Rachel brings us a very good point here.

Well, no. So it would have been about, what is that, 20%? Maybe it was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed from them.

Okay.

All right, 20.

Yeah. So that's a little bit high.

Are your parents super tight?

Yes, very.

Okay. So I actually. I'm glad you brought this up, Rachel. Sorry. I know I was diving in a little bit. Not truly interrupting, because I don't like that.

Go, Ken, go.

Okay. Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest. And then again, we don't loan our kids money.

Right.

Nor am I going to.

Right.

But I'm trying to put myself in this.

Sure.

So it. Remember the old classic, we tell you what we would do. Okay. We wouldn't do it. But if I'm sticking myself, I think it's a little tight. I think it's a little tight.

Sure.

But they didn't do anything but take.

Advantage is a really strong language.

I don't like that.

It feels like it was decided seat for.

And I don't think they did. I am going to say, though, Lindsey. So I have another follow up question. I can't wait for Rachel to get involved in this, potentially. So the timeline, for all of our viewers and listeners here, quick review. It was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation. He gets. He gets upset, and it affects you. How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment and this phone call today, how much time has passed?

Years. We've been married for almost three years.

Oh, wow.

That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this. So here we are. Are you saying three years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal three years ago?

Yes.

All right.

Yeah.

So you've been sitting on this for.

Three years, and the loans been paid off for three years as well?

Four loans been paid.

I got. I'm sorry. I'm so in the timeline here. So the question is, Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned.

Concerned? What do you mean? That she's just. Resentment.

Resentment, yeah. And she's calling us, and I'm glad you called us.

Yeah. I would really stop talking about it. I would get over it. I would release it, Lindsey. I really would. I think that, yes, they're probably cheap to a degree. Like. Yeah, they're cheap, okay. But they. But they didn't do anything deceitful. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. And so I think it's one of those things that, again, thankfully, you have the money to pay them back. And all of it. But the deal is, like, this isn't. This is another reason, right, why we don't loan money. So I'm glad you've been watching the show, Lindsey, because you're exactly right. This is. I would do this because it does feel weird. And it's not only does it feel weird cause you owe your parents money when we talk about that, but it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like, oh, gross. I don't like how that felt. So, like, all of that is standard.

And this is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. All right, folks, if you are debt free, you're walking through the baby steps and you're going, man, I gotta learn how to turn that corner, Rachel, from that gazelle intensity that you really need for one through three to enjoying life. And you start to go, and we get these calls all the time. People go, I mean, I did it. I got, I gotta learn how to spend money. You know? I mean, we get, like, those calls every week. Then, then I've got an idea. I've got an idea for you. Baby steps, four through seven, people.

Are you coming up with us on the side spot, Ken?

No. No. I see what you did there. No, but, but I'm saying some of you are going, I need to learn how to transition from gazelle intensity to actually living like no one else. So I got an idea. What if you went on a cruise with me and Rachel and Dave and John Deloney and George Camel and Jade Warshaw and some of our friends, and you went to places like Turks and Caicos. And then after you did that, you went to St. Thomas. And then we got to go to Puerto Rico. Yeah. Hello.

And then us territory.

And then you're down there.

Let's go to the Bahamas.

Let's go to the Bahamas. And so I'm sitting next to the Bahama mama herself. You got a little tan going on, I noticed.

Oh, we went to the beach last week. Yeah.

Okay. I thought you had a little more color.

Thanks.

And so this cruise is actually a thing.

We're going on a cruise, y'all, we.

Are doing, it's called you guys live like no one else. Cruise. Seven days. All of those locations we're going, Rachel will be there bronzed up. I mean, she'll be ready to go. All of her Walmart beach gear, all of the things. Are you gonna have, like, a special instagram? This is my cruise outfit.

I'll tell you my outfit.

Rachel Cruz cruises.

There you go. That's good. That's good.

I'm really working here because you'll have. Because you're known for this. If people don't follow you on Instagram, you always have these deals.

Yeah, well, if I find a good deal personally, I'm like, yeah, I'll share it out.

And I'm getting fed up. Can I tell you? I'm getting fed up with it because I love your outfits. You know, this. I. You love the way you're. But every time you got a deal.

Is that every time I feel like every time I see you once or twice a week.

Yeah, it feels like a little.

People love it. Hey, listen, ladies out there. Appreciate it.

First of all, I'm kidding, but I am in jealous that you're always got this new deal.

Thanks. Thanks, Kim. Well, but the new deal is happening right now with this cruise, you guys.

So it's a cruise March 22 through 29 of 2025.

So it's a $600 deposit to secure your cabin. And again, we're going to hang out. It's going to be a week long cruise. It's going to be a ship full of people that have lived like no one else.

So later, I mean, we're gonna do Q and A. We're going to be hanging out. And I just secured this new thing right before we came back on the air. Rachel's a reader, and I love this about her. She loves to read. She loves to go on the gram and talk about her books. I think I convinced her to have a little book club on one of the decks every afternoon.

I told him, I said, I'm excited to have a cocktail in the afternoon with a good thriller book on the deck of the boat.

Would you be willing. Would you be willing to. To read to people? I gotta say, like, maybe one chapter from the latest book Rachel reads. I think it'd be a huge hit on the fourth deck.

We all say around 02:00 I bring 20 copies, cocktails and copies of books. There you go.

You just do one chapter, you hand out a chapter, and they sit and everyone reads.

You never know what's gonna happen on this cruise, you never know.

I'm trying to get her to agree.

Will be there too. I see.

So here we go. Here are the dates. March 20, 222, rather through 29, 2025. $600 right now secures your deposit. Yeah. Just as the deposit. Yeah, sorry. Everybody's like, $600. Yeah. That's the deposit that secures your cabin.

It's a nice cruise ship.

It's very nice. We saw pictures the other day, the website to book. And by the way, it will sell out. Ramsay solutions.com slash cruise. Couldn't be any easier. Ramsay solutions.com slash some of the suites.

Are sold out already. They are.

Is there gonna be any karaoke by any way, by any chance?

Oh, I'm sure this is a classic cruise. No situation. I was, I think he's like, half the week.

Okay.

Yeah.

Darn.

So he's gonna come for a bit.

Very exciting. Ramsay solutions.com slash cruise. Move on it. Now you want to go ahead and plan that trip? Boy, it is going to be a lot of fun. And I, and I look at those destinations, by the way. Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. I've been to all but one. Oh, I've never been the Turks.

Okay. I don't know if I have either.

So a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Primo destination. Should be a lot of fun. And we'll see. There'll be more surprises, I'm sure, and fun stuff happening all the time. I, for one, I'm gonna show up for the book club on the deck with you. Good spy novel. Yeah.

Deck e on the starboard side.

Don't know what any of that means. I should wear a sailor outfit one day just for fun. Like one of those old school ones. Worth the shorts.

No, Ken's gonna have too much fun on this one.

Kelly. The producer's terrified right now. Let's move to the calls to help her come out of her catonic state there. Sage is up in Austin, Texas. Sage, how can we help?

Hi, sir. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

Good to talk to you. What's going on?

So my question is about getting into debt responsibly. We own our home. We have a mortgage, and we also have a three year old son who is on the autism spectrum. He's a really good boy, except for, you know, his diagnosis. And he has a problem with escaping. He's a really good escape artist. He's gotten out of the house multiple times. We fixed that. We put locks everywhere on every window and whatnot. But now the issue is we'll be in the front yard with him, and it'll be like my father, my husband, something like that. You know, we're just playing a normal game, and then out of nowhere, he'll just bolt. He'll go right into that busy street, or I'll turn around and he'll quietly try to creep away to walk over to his friend's house. And we always catch him. Almost always. There was a couple times that. Well, there was one time, actually, that he was brought back by a police officer, and that was very heartbreaking and very traumatic. It's a dangerous situation. So we want to install a fence in our front yard. And we know that a lot of families, especially children, have to have safety fences.

It's almost like a necessity, but it's also really expensive. It's about $5,000. And I want to. I don't want to go into debt, but I would put it on the credit card and. But I'm also a Christian, so it said that we're supposed to be in debt to no man. And I'm wondering, what's the responsible thing to do here?

Well, we're not going to tell you to put it on a credit card. I'll give it to Rachel here pretty quickly. I just want to point out, as a father and putting myself in your shoes, this is not. Not easy. And you've got a lot of hoops that you have to jump through and a lot of safety precautions. But I. If I was in your shoes, I would not put anything, any debt on this. I would not do this. Would I go into debt to build a $5,000 fence? Because he's always looking to get out. And even with the fence, you're still going to have to watch him because it's not going to be long before he's old enough to figure out how to get out of the fence. And at this point, I would not. If I was going to take my kid outside, I would go. When we go outside, we're on high alert here. We're not doing what normal we always are. Well, but my point is, is then he shouldn't be running away if we're on high alert and the fence is. Is a part of the fix. It's not the fix, but I think you guys could save up five grand.

You could sell stuff to come up with five grand pretty quick. But until then, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be out in the front yard with him or the yard, period. Rachel, is that harsh?

Yeah. No, no, no. Front yard in the spring.

No.

Front yard in the stomach.

Yeah. I mean. I mean. Say, guys, where are you guys at financially? Do you have any savings?

Yes, ma'am, we do. We have a little bit in savings.

How much?

About, I think 3000 in savings.

Okay. Do you guys have debt? No debt, you said yes.

Yes, we have a mortgage. And that is 204,000. The reason why I was thinking about putting it on a credit card. We got this offer. No. Ever? No. Like, just don't even touch it.

Yeah. No, and I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Sage, I would take, you know, I would take part of your 3000, but because you guys need to be building that up even more. How much you guys make a year?

He makes 40,000 a year.

40,000. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't. I mean, you called the Ramsey show. We're not going to tell you to go into debt over anything. It's a pretty black and white issue here on this show especially. And. And that is a. There's a spiritual element to that. I mean, you mentioned being a Christian. It's not a sin. Debt is not a sin. You can still go to heaven if you charge it on this credit card. Right. I mean, it's not a sin issue, but it is. It's this idea that, yes, there is a spiritual, emotional component to debt that is very real, and then there's also just the financial side. And you guys, you know, you don't have the money to afford this right now. And I think that this is a wake up call, too. And I've had friends with similar diagnosis with children, and it's. And it's terrible. It's heartbreaking. It's so difficult. But to no sage in the future, you guys need to be really, maybe you working extra, you working some. You guys need a good emergency fund in place because there's going to be tools that you guys are going to need to tap into for him in the future.

And offense is just the starting point. But no, I would not get in the habit of going into debt for this stuff. I would save, pay up and just know that there's going to be further expenses for him in the future.

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Lender 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood.

Tennessee 37027 welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented, the gracious Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. Triple 8825-5225 if I'm going to be co hosting with you. It just occurred to me, I looked in the monitor, I'm going to have to get out in the sun. I feel like we're.

I feel like we're a fair.

Similar. Not to me, but anyway, I feel like a little extra pale. But, but, but, but you over here getting the vitamin d these days. Uh, let's go to Jill, who is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jill, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call today. It's great to talk to you guys.

You too. What's happening?

Well, I have a question and kind of wanted you guys to weigh in on a little debate in our family.

Oh, we love getting in the middle of debates.

We love a debate.

Yes.

Well, this. This is going to be kind of a fun one. So my daughter is 22, and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt. And about a year ago, she was able to get on the pre sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter, and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis this coming November.

Now, hold on, Jill. Jill, I need to warn you before you go any further, in setting this question to debate up, I am sitting next to quite arguably, one of the biggest swifties I've ever met. So this.

I don't know if I'm the biggest.

Person.

Okay, keep going, keep going.

Okay, so, you know, we had this back and forth over the phone as she was trying to buy the tickets, you know, and it's this fast furious thing when you're trying to buy them at. On the, you know, their actual sale date. And anyway, she was able to get them, and we got him for like $209 apiece.

Wow.

Hold on, hold on. Is that a good deal?

That's a fabulous deal. Like the resale.

The resell on some total splurge. I thought that was such a splurge.

It is. Relative to the way you speak. Money.

We're spending thousands of resale.

Is it okay, $209 each? I'm just keeping score.

Right?

Okay. Keep going.

All right, so Rachel just said it, right? So now I'm seeing these resale.

Oh, it's crazy. Oh, it's crazy.

It's insane.

Yeah.

And so I told her, like, look, you know, we know where you're going.

With this to pay down.

Why don't you. Why don't we sell those tickets? We knock out so much, you know, the practical mom comes out of me, right? Like, why don't we sell those tickets? And you can knock down so much of your student loan that you'd be so far ahead, you know? And she says, absolutely. It's non negotiable. It's a bucket list item. She's like, probably you, Rachel a swifty. And this is, you know.

And it's her money.

Yes and no. It was my money.

Oh, okay.

It was my money. So I paid for them. But, you know, I mean, this is. And for me, too. I'm looking at, like, you know, she's iconic. I would love to go to her concert. You know, my daughter, of all the people that she could take, she wants to take her sister and me. You know, I mean, that's great. It's going to be a fun thing, and Rachel's heart is so looking forward to it. I'm so looking forward to this.

Okay, so hold on. All right, stop.

Practical mom.

I know I'm going to be practical. You ready? Here we go. Let's start breaking this down.

Okay.

It's 209 times three. Okay. So I got $627 if my math is.

But if she resells on what was.

Not to resell yet. So you spent $627. What would your. What would your take be? What, Rachel? Now walk us through. What do you think you could make on these tickets?

Okay. So I just, like, briefed it today before this call.

Okay.

And, like. Okay, so we're in the 200 level of seats, right. You know, so good seats, good 600 level seats, like, nosebleeder seats, just sold for, like, two grand apiece. 400 level, three grand apiece. And there are some 100 level that's just sold for $4,700 a ticket.

So we're easily talking about four grand.

Ten. Yeah, ten.

I'm thinking average out between three, four grand, easy.

Yeah. Per ticket. I get it. Uh huh, uh huh. And where would the money. And so if we did that. And so we would be netting. Let's just. Let's. Let's go. 3500 a ticket to be modest. And so what are you looking at?

Ten, 510 grand.

Five.

Student loan debt.

Yeah. What's it going for? So her student loan debt is 24,000.

Correct.

And that's what you would want to put the money towards.

Absolutely. 100% of it will go to there.

All right. And you initially invested $627.

That is correct.

And the only reason that you can. Then you can net. Let's just call it ten. Let's call it shy of. Just shy of ten grand is because you bought these tickets. Would you be putting 9000 plus dollars towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets?

I would not.

All right. I'm going somewhere. I. I think. Well, I don't. I don't care what anybody says. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't resell these tickets.

Are you shocked at his response, Rachel?

Jill, this is the holy spirit moving.

No, no. I will tell you what. Your eyes, dare I say, why she wouldn't have put that money. Here's the deal, Jill. You weren't planning to cut a check for $9,500 to put on your daughter student loan ever?

I was not.

So my whole point is like, a windfall, right?

If I. If $9,500 fell into my lap, I might do that.

I get it. But this is your daughter, and it's a once in a lifetime concert.

Oh, yeah.

I agree.

You go, Jill, go to the concert.

I agree.

Oh, you were just shocked at what I said.

Was that because I'm so thankful that we were together on the same team, that our opinions lined up? I thought you were gonna be screwed.

Tell Olivia. Please tell Olivia that we're going to the concert.

Oh, Olivia. You guys got the Taylor's web concert, and she has the new torture poets. She has her new album. She has a whole new set. Whole new thing.

Yeah. I just. I will tell you this.

I have a set list playlist, and, Jill, it's fantastic. I learn all these songs.

I went to two. I went to two, went to the national one, and then I flew my husband out to Seattle with me to go to the other.

I'm kidding.

Listen, I'm so fun.

I just. Here's why I'm saying that you weren't going to do this anyway. And I think your daughter said, absolutely no way. And I think it creates an unnecessary tension. She's 22. She needs to pay the thing off herself. Anyway, there's a lot of reasons I want our audience to know. I'm not just. I just think when I look at something like this, this is about the emotional, not the financial. And could you go to a Taylor Swift concert in the future? Yes, you could, but I think you're looking at this and you're going, oh, my gosh. And who wouldn't consider the resale value? Believe me, I would be thinking about it. But it comes down to it. I'll just say this. This is a personal anecdote. I'm no swifty. She doesn't particularly do anything for me at all. But I have a 15 year old daughter. And when my wife and I were in Europe last year for our 25th anniversary, we got a text from sweet josie. And she had gotten invited the night before to Taylor Swift's concert at the Titans football stadium. And it was. And so we were like, of course you can go.

Have fun. It was a gift from her friend's dad, blah, blah, blah. All right. So we returned from Europe, and one of the first things I asked my daughter was, tell me about that night and to see her describe that night. And then I had a friend six weeks later who worked for Taylor Swift's merch company. It was a new friend. We had cigars. And I say, really? You work for Taylor Swift? Blah, blah, blah. He goes, yeah. Do you want some merch for your daughter? I was like, if you would make me dad of the year. He put a bag, and I mean giant bag of Taylor Swift.

Was it eras tour, the latest tour.

On my front porch. And here's. Here's the story. Thank you for audience for giving me a little latitude. When I walked in my house, Kelly, and said, josie, come downstairs, I got a surprise for you. And I told her the story. I didn't buy this. This is from a friend of mine. She got it. She cried when she began to open up hoodies, long sleeve tees, t shirts. And I said to myself, I don't get it, but I get it. So my advice here is, everything will be all right if we just keep dancing like we're 22. Your daughter's 22.

She is.

It's perfect.

I don't know about you, but I.

Feel I had to pull the lyrics up. I cheated.

And she will not be down bed.

Crying at the gym.

Now we're going.

Yeah.

You know, this is what happens when Dave goes out of town. This is the show that we all needed, America. This is it. This is the segment we all needed.

Yeah. You know, you can't be grumpy, grandpa Dave in this situation, Jill. This is so much bucket list. Make memories with your two daughters.

And then she needs to pay off that debt.

She needs to pay off the loan.

She needs to pay it off.

But tell her to get to it, man. She's just getting through to get the tickets was hard enough.

Hey, Jill knew the lyrics.

This is the Ramsay show. Welcome to the Ramsay show, where we help you win in your life. We want you to win with your money, winning your relationships, and. And win in your profession. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number for you to jump in with your question is 888-25-5225 triple 8825-5225. We started off this hour in Des Moines, Iowa. Kip is joining us there. Kip, how can we help?

Hey, so I'm 14. I live out in the country, and I have this mini business called Horse Lake Helpers, because it started in a little neighborhood called Horse Lake. And my friend and I are wanting to expand out into the city because we think we've gotten most of the customers that are willing to let us work from. And first, I just am wondering if you think it's a good idea to move into the city or stay where we're at. And second of all, if we do move to the city, to send the postcards to the mail, which is how I want to do it, or how my friend wants to do it, which is just to come up to their house and send the post or put the postcard in the mailbox.

All right, well, let me take that part of the question on first, because that's illegal everywhere in the United States. You cannot. You can't put something in a mailbox that's not. Doesn't have postage on it. However, ever you ever driven by a mailbox and seen, like, a flyer stuck between the red flag and the mailbox? Interestingly enough, that's not illegal. But I love the moxie of your partner on this deal. But let's not do anything illegal. But I think that I'd go another step further. I wouldn't do the flyer on the mailbox. I was just giving you an example of that. I'd be knocking on doors and letting people look you right in the eye and tell them exactly what you're doing. I think the fact that you're 14.

Yeah. Kip, how old's your partner? How old's the business partner?

He's 13.

What do you guys do?

How are y'all driving there? How do you. How we all get to the city?

His dot dad will be taking us on the days that we have jobs.

What's your business again?

Horse Lake helpers.

Now, what does that mean?

It's just the name of the neighborhood that it started in. And then helpers. Because it sounds nice.

Oh, no, no. No, I'm saying, what are you helping people? What are you doing? What's the business?

Oh, okay. So we do the three things that we have marketed is walking dogs, mowing lawns, and washing cars.

Okay, which of the three. Hold on a second. Which of the three do you do? I mean, rank those. Those three services. Walking dogs, mowing lawns, washing cars. Rank those. And how much you're doing. Which one is the most popular service?

Definitely the water. Do you mean by how many times I've done it?

Yeah.

Yeah. Who are they by? Are people wanting you to mow their lawn more than they are, wash their car, or they want you walking their dogs? What's the most popular service?

Walking dogs.

Oh, really? And what's next, then?

Probably mowing lawn. I haven't had a car wash.

Okay. All right. Well, that's good.

So, kip, I mean, you're 14.

The answer is school.

Well, when school starts. I don't know. I'm like the mother hen here. I mean, I think entrepreneur. We may have different takes on this. There's a part of me that I'm like. I think expanding business and all of it. I think that's all great. I think it's all great. I also don't want you to get in over your skis, as some would say, that you're 14 and you have school.

Okay, hold on. Let me.

I think you're doing an incredible job, kip. I mean, we are all about this. This is how you make money. Honestly, if you're a teenager, instead of working at a fast food place, do this like, you're gonna make so much more money. But also, I don't know, like, you're driving to other parts, maybe for the summer.

Let me dig in a little bit. All right. I appreciate the mother hen, but we gotta find out if he's ready to expand.

Okay.

All right. So you and your buddy want to expand because you feel like you've run out of places to talk to about your three services. Clearly, the car washing thing, it's a no go in your area. Nobody wants your service. So there's a clue right there. All right. But the dog walking seems to be the reason why I asked what's the most popular is I want to know where your market is. And so in Des Moines, Iowa, suburbs, people want their dogs walked. Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah.

And you've run out of people who have dogs who might be interested? Is that what I'm hearing?

Yes.

All right, so how far is the city? How far of a driver are we talking about?

Probably, like, a ten minute drive from my house.

Great.

Or maybe like, seven from their house.

All right, so we got to talk to dad. We got to talk to the dad or the adults in your life and go. If I schedule some dog walking, how is that going to inconvenience you all? Because to Rachel's point, somebody's got to get you even seven to ten minutes away to where you can walk rover for somebody. Okay, now, the. The cutting of lawns, same deal. So, yeah, I would. But you know what I would do? I would pick a couple of neighborhoods to target, and I talk to your mom and dad and all the adults in your life. This is what I would do. And I would say, what are the wealthiest neighborhoods in Des Moines? Okay. Or whatever the city is. And that's where I would start, because I would want to start and test this idea of expanding. And I'd go walking around the neighborhood, and I would knock on doors, maybe put a little money into a nice flyer that show you and your buddy walking people's dogs.

We had. How long has this been open? Kip? How long have you guys been doing this?

Probably around a year ish.

Okay, that's great.

How much, by the way, do you charge to walk a dog?

It was originally $5 an hour, but our first client, up to dollar ten an hour over the winter because they wanted to keep us around. So that's kind of become our main for everything.

I love this kit. You're amazing. I would raise my prices when I go to Des Moines, though. $10. Let me say something. I've never lived in Iowa, but I know people who live in Iowa. And when the winter comes, you might as well be at the North Pole. So if I'm walking rover in the winter, that's $25 an hour right there. Right?

Okay.

Anyway, I'm not with Rachel. I disagree with my. With my. With the mother hen here.

Well, you should be trying to expand in seven minutes. It's better. When I heard all this, I'm thinking they're gonna try 45 minutes to do.

They drive it anywhere?

He's 14, and his partner, the parent, will be driving. Yes, I know. I know.

Although I'll say this. I'd ride a bike. Seven to ten minutes. I made double that to ride a bike. When I was your age, I'd ride a bike. I don't know if your parents would let you do that, but we need more of that water. No, I never went to school, but I rode my bike everywhere when I was 14. We need more freaking young people in America riding their bikes to walk the dog. You could ride your bike into the neighborhood. Just put the old kickstand down, and I'm here to walk Rover.

There is a slight problem with that. We live down in a valley in the country, and there are giant hills everywhere.

So it's good for your heart and your legs. Good for your heart and legs.

I think you're doing a great job. And I think if you guys get a couple of more customers and you. And you. And you schedule it well where it's convenient for the parent and your business partner and everything, I think it's great. But wealthy neighborhoods, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not trying. I was not trying to discourage the entrepreneur, but also, I don't know, there's a reality. Things. The things shift in life very quickly. At 14, I love it.

You're only getting here.

And we got. And I would say, kip, I'm with Ken on this. If they can put a face with who's doing the work, I think it's really big. I had three girls. They're called the three blonde babysitters. It was on their flyer, these three blonde girls, and they were about your age. They were 13. Came, and they knocked on every door in our neighborhood. And they're like, we're mother's helpers. Like, we can come and help throughout the summer. And they were so sweet, and I was like, I almost just want you guys to come over, you know, just so there's something about Kip, I think you guys. Yes, I think it's a good. And that's a good move. Knock on the doors, by the way, for you, Kip.

Every dog owner I know, including this guy, thinks our dog needs to be walk, but doesn't really enjoy doing it that much.

There you go.

So I have. So I have my teenagers do it. They don't get any money. They get sustenance, shelter.

Shelter, food, and electricity.

All right, I love the young entrepreneur. Kip. Go for it, buddy. This is the Ramsay show. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is with me this hour, and we're here for you. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number here to help you win with your money. So you. You get some money. Questions. Hey, how do I budget? How do I keep more of it? How do I make more money? Happy to weigh in on some of those questions. And speaking of money, you know, we have been talking about this for a long, long time around Ramsey solutions, helping a lot of people. And almost every money problem, in fact, not almost every money problem on some level, has a budget component to it. It just does. And we have created what we believe is the premier money budget tool there is, and we call it everydollar. And I know you're a big fan of everydollar as well. What makes it so effective in your mind?

Yeah. So, everydollar, it's a budgeting app. And I think one of the things is the convenience of having an app on your phone, honestly, because we go everywhere with our phones. And so to have everything right there to get to it, to see your numbers, I think, is one big thing. And then the second, just the way that we teach a zero based budget and how to track expenses, how to give every dollar a name, all of that, you can walk through it on every dollar, and your. And your budget is there, and it's. And it's fantastic. And there's, like, great analytics. Like, once you've been doing it a while, yes. You can go in and see, okay, you know, where have we overspent here? Or how much have we spent, on average with food or what? Like, you can actually start to see your spending habits. And so every dollar, it's incredible. I actually tracked my transactions this morning. Ken. I think it's. It's great. I mean, we. Winston and I, we use it every single. I mean, honestly, every day I open it for something to say, okay, how much do we have left here or there?

And it just gives you intentionality around your money. I think that's the number one mistake people make with their money, is they're not intentional. They don't have purpose to it. So every dollar. Is that. So you can actually download everydollar for free in the app store or Google Play or go to everydollar.com. you can do Rachel, Ken will be there. And to be able to. For you to create your first budget, and you can do that for free. So make sure you guys do that, because seriously, being purposeful with your paycheck, it's one of the best ways to get control of not just your income, but your entire money situation.

All right, let's go to Natalie, who is waiting for us in Cedar Falls, Iowa. Today feels like an Iowa day. Natalie, how can we help?

Well, I guess my question, it's kind of a long one, but to, like, sum it up, I have followed the Dave Ramsey baby step, and basically, like, I am a huge budgeter. I love staying on track. I'm more frugal. I like, a simple lifestyle. I enjoy working, so I have, like, an acreage that's fully paid off, and I have those vehicles that are paid off. And I give riding lessons on the side, and I work full time at a full time position, and then I also teach a lot. So I do a couple kind of different jobs, but kind of like, okay. It's like, you always dream of kind of growing up and getting married, but I'm 32, and I'm kind of like, okay, I don't know if that will happen. And I really just want to live for Christ. Like, what does that look like? And then, financially, where do I put my money as far as, like, if I don't get married, like, where do you go ahead and invest that, and where do you put it? And, like, where does it make the most sense? Because I don't really want to slow down as far as, like, the speed that I'm going, but I don't know exactly what the best way is to, like, maximize resources and stuff at this point.

All right, so hold on. I heard a couple things there, and I want to get to the heart of what this call is about. Is this about investing your money, or is this about marriage? And can I get married? I mean, what's. Because I'm hearing a couple themes here, and it's come up a couple direction.

To, like, run with, you know? Like, what do you mean? I definitely. Well, like, I feel a little bit, like, burnt out of, like, okay, like, what? Like, what am I saving for? Like, you're trying to save for, like, I mean, I totally am. Like, okay, having a family sounds great, but, like, then I'm like, do I really want that? Because at the same time, I feel like sometimes guys can't keep up with me, and I'm like, okay, well, I don't want to slow down my life.

Hold on a second. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. If you had dating relationships, is there some history behind that last comment that the guy can't keep up with me? Or is this just all in your hypothetical based on how so stinking productive you are? Because let me just say this, Natalie. You got your stuff together. I mean, you're an impressive person. But back to that comment. Is that coming from history, or are you projecting that on yourself?

It totally comes from things that other people have told me, whether, like, past relationships I've been in or just, like, family being like, oh, like, you know, you've achieved a lot, so, like, it's gonna be hard to find somebody like that can keep, and I don't think that it. Like, who told. Timeout.

Timeout. Timeout. I'm doing a little digging here. All right? Your family's telling you this? Or a dude or. Or multiple dudes that you've been dating told you this? Give me the real.

Both. So, like. And so, like, sometimes, like, really, honestly, only, like, one or two guys that I was with that was just like, oh. Like, you know, you work a lot, and it was like, like. And so, honestly, it's been guys that just don't want to work that hard. And I have dated guys before that do work really hard. So then it's never been an issue. Okay? It's always, no, no, stop, stop.

That's what's going on. Just because you dated a couple duds doesn't mean that that's your situation. So I don't want to make this whole call about that, but I just kept hearing that pop up Rachel, the marriage thing, and you're a go getter and all that, but if you're dating duds, guys who don't want to work hard, then they don't have that. But let me ask the. To me, the ultimate qualifying question. If you met the guy, this guy sweeps you off your feet. He works hard, he's successful. He's got a vision and a plan for his life, like you do. Do. Do you want that? And do you want a family?

I think that's what I want. Like, I think that's why I'm, like, chasing what I'm chasing. Like, I think it's, like, I want to, like, make my family as solid as possible. Like, I grew up very. We didn't have much growing up, and, like, not financially speaking. And so I think, like, I want to, like, make my life as stable as possible.

All right, here's what's going on. I'm going to bring Rachel in. All right, I'm going to stop talking with all my questions, but I think I'm hearing someone who's burning herself out because you don't think you'll ever have enough. And if my. And if the guy doesn't come along on the white horse or whatever it is girls your age think of these days, whatever the metaphor is, if he doesn't. If the prince charming doesn't come in, am I going to have enough? If I don't have a family, will I have enough? And I think that all comes from your upbringing, and you're going to have to start to own this and go, I've got this massive fear about spending money or doing anything fun. And that's why I'm working all the time, because I'm just so afraid, Rachel. That's what I'm hearing. What are you hearing?

Yeah, I think that's totally fair. I mean. Yeah. Nothing you said, natalie, makes me think, oh, my gosh, you're, like, in this dire situation, and you need to be having three jobs and all of this, right. And again. And if you enjoy it, though, and you're like, you know, I don't really have much else going on, and so I enjoy this, and I enjoy that, and I'm gonna make money. You know, it's all about the motivation, and that's what I think Ken's point was, if the motivation is out of the. This kind of toxic, unhealthy fear, because I think spenders can get a bad rap of, like, oh, my gosh, they're so irresponsible. That's my ambassador. They're so irresponsible. Oh, my gosh, my gosh. I think savers, Natalie, like, you can also need to have a bad rap, in a sense, that. Sense that. That saving is not wrong. Obviously, we are. We are for saving. We are for planning for the future. But there is a level where money becomes an unhealthy part of your life where it almost becomes a God.

Yeah. You're afraid to enjoy life.

Yeah. And you're chasing this number. You're chasing this thing, thinking, okay, once I get that, I'm going to feel okay. But the problem is, you'll get there, and then you'll think, uh, I probably should do, like, one more year of that. And. And the finish line just keeps moving. So there is a contentment piece, and that's not laziness or apathy, but there is a level of peace, Natalie, I want you to have with your money. And people don't have that peace when you're living paycheck to paycheck and you got $20,000 in credit card debt and you're, you know, losing a job and no emergency fund. Like, there's an unrest that money can cause. But your situation. And I think Ken went off on his questions, which was great. So I kind of forgot the beginning of your story of, like, your situation specifically. But you're not in a fight. You're not in a dire financial place.

No, I'm not at all. And I did buy a horse. Like, that was just like, a horse that I wanted to buy, and I spent quite a bit of money on it, and bought it, like, just for myself. And so I'm going to show her this year. And so that was totally. And, like, totally, like, good. It made sense going forward.

Natalie, I would. Because you're debt free, right. And you have an emergency fund.

Yeah. Just. That's the way we.

What's your housing situation? Do you own a home?

I do. And that's just kind of, like, do I. Like, I mean, I have three acres. I have an indoor arena. Like, so I just. I really have the things that I want. But then it's like, okay, do I go a little bit bigger, or what do I go about?

No, I think you're good.

I think investing.

Keep investing and keep enjoying. You know, when you get to that point, giving more, saving more, and spending more is kind of the three buckets that you want to tap into. And I would do that. Yeah. To enjoy. And I think that there are guys out there, Natalie, that 100% would not be intimidated and would actually value and respect and love that about you.

But can I also say, be careful not to try to marry somebody who's exactly the way you are?

Well, yeah. Not unrealistic expectations. Sure. Everyone's got their stuff. You're gonna end up in therapy no matter who you're married to. Right, Ken? Amen. Amen, Kelly.

No, I'm not raising my hand. Hand on that one. Staying away from that one.

Stacy.

Yeah. Yeah. She's the one that needs the therapy, let's be honest. All right, quick break. I'll call it. Therapist. This is the Ramsay show. The Ramsay show continues. We are continuing to take your calls and answer your questions about the challenges you're having with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. Also, three of those areas come into contact, and you want to be winning in all three areas, and that's the focus of our conversation. You and your life. Triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And let's get right back to the phones. Milwaukee, Wisconsin, is where Drew is. Drew, how can we help?

Hey, guys, can you hear me all right?

Yes, sir.

Awesome.

Then I'll get right into it. I'm getting married this December. And so January 1, you know, 2025, our finances are going to combine. I'm trying to figure out, because she's coming in at midway through physical therapy school with $50,000 in student debt and 50,000 more left to pay. Should I be trying to pay down the debt after we're together or cash flowing the school? I can't do both okay.

Would it be cash flowing the school in January, correct? Yeah, I mean, I would. I would probably. I would look at cash flowing first and then going to pay off debt after that, after she's graduated and everything. Yeah, yeah, I would.

That means the debt stays and they're at like 7% interest rate. So that I just let them sit there and grow?

Yes. Because the alternative is what? Taking out a loan? 50 more. And that's not what you want.

Is there anything with.

My thought was just it would be paid down by then.

Go ahead.

How much do you have saved?

About 35,000.

Okay.

I could check that. All towards the debt and then.

Yeah, no, I would. Yeah, no.

I. The 20,000 of that is going towards this wedding.

Oh, okay, perfect. Okay. 15,000. Yes, I would. Yeah, I would put it towards tuition and I would do what I could to figure out, hey, how do we save between now and then to cash flow the rest of that semester for her? Is it one more semester left? Will she be done in May?

No, she's done in string of 2026. So a couple years still.

Oh, okay. Okay. And the plan is just to continue to take out debt for that.

Hers is, I guess, mine now, following your advice would be to cash flow the rest starting January.

Yes. She's got 50,000 left. And he's saying, do I cash flow that or do I pay down her existing.

She has a whole other year left of school. Yeah.

So has your opinion changed?

I mean, I don't. Is it realistic for you guys to cash flow this school?

It would be pinching pennies for sure.

Okay.

But you could expecting a little bit of a raise and an annual bonus.

Okay.

Yeah. On rice and beans.

You could do it. Okay, then, yeah, then I would put this towards.

I would too, because she's going to come out earning money.

Yeah.

And now we only have 50 to pay off instead of, you know. And I understand what you're saying. I'll pay the 50 off and I'm getting rid of the interest payment. But, you know, she's got a cash flow her way through this. This is her professional direction. So what's done is done. Let's avoid it going forward. That's our take on this.

Yeah, for sure. I would. I would not dig a bigger hole if I could. I would. I would stay in the present. And then once she graduates, and like Ken said, she'll. I mean, what will she be making when she graduates? I know it'll be another two years.

But 75 to 85.

Okay.

It's fantastic. You pay off 50 grand so fast.

Yep.

It'll make your head spin. You really can. That's not a huge amount of money.

By then it'll be like 65.

Right?

Because of the interest. Is it privately, is it private loans? I guess with master is like, is it all due now or is it due at graduation?

It's a mix and none of its due now. No. So that. But it is accruing interest.

It is accruing interest.

Is she able to payments due but.

Accruing interest, is she able to work while doing PT school full time?

That's a whole other conversation, but I'll go with no.

Oh, oh. I picked a scab there, didn't. I'm sorry.

Do you feel like in general, though, that you're. You guys are in a good, like, team aspect, like direction wise with money as you're heading into this marriage?

Yeah, we're both savers for sure. For sure.

We're both super cheap and both have but similar in values of a plan.

What was that?

But like, value system wise? Meaning like that we have a plan. We're working together. We both want this. We both want to live debt free. We both want. You know what I mean? Like those kind of values. Is that similar? Right. Perfect.

Her idea would be the second she gets a salary, we keep living how we are right now until all her salary.

So, yeah, I mean, honestly, I would do that because if you continue to take on more debt, to Ken's point, it's going to continue to build more. You're going to have a larger amount with that 7% interest. Right, right.

Well, I mean, so it's like I'm taking some off. That's not that before it accrues interest, and the same exact is growing. So in my mind, at 0% interest, so it stays at the same, but it doesn't grow versus if I cash flow it, the current amount just grows at 7%.

I get. I got that.

The numbers work out to me.

Sure, sure. Yeah. I think there's a. I think there's a mental component to this of saying, hey, this is our goal for her to get through school. And this 15 grand is going to give us a big jump start toward that tuition to start. That's what I would do.

Yeah. And let me just circle back one more time, Drew, because I appreciate you're coming at us with that, and that makes sense this way. But let me put it this way. You probably aren't going to be able to pay the 50 off in record time really quickly. It's going to take you. How long? If we went your route and paid off the 50 in the debt that the student loan, how long would that take you to pay it off?

A year and a half. Same as it would take the cash flow, the new schooling.

Right. My point is, you're not getting away from the interest bug. It's still there. It's accruing while you're paying it off. So the point is, we don't want you digging a bigger hole. We're just going to stick with that, taking on more debt in the situation. I'd rather her work some. I know I brought up a very sensitive subject there. Yikers. But, but, but that's the reality. Like, you know, she'll at least consider some hours, if nothing else, to help you with the, you know, some of the interest payments and start paying it down a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I agree, but, you know, I can't.

I know, brother, you can suggest it. And she's gonna go, nope, I want to study.

And, and this, I know this is, you probably know this, Drew, but I wouldn't do anything until after you guys are married. Yes, till after December. Awesome. Perfect.

Married in December.

What's that? What's the date in December?

28.

Oh, like a new year's. We're the 19th. A December anniversary is a fantastic one. Kelly, our producers. It's so great. You'll be so happy.

What do you think about. What do you think about three days after Christmas? Why is that so fantastic?

Well, I don't know. I just think December, I mean, the after Christmas is all different than ours. We were the 19th. But everyone's just happy in December. Everyone's just happy. Go to your anniversary dinner out. It's all festive and. I don't know, it's great. So congratulations, Drew. I think it's fantastic. I would put this 15,000 towards tuition coming up. I would cash flow it, and then when she graduates, you guys attack the student loan.

How much money total you got saved?

Saved 35,000. But after the wedding, 15,000?

Yeah. Your boy. I'm going to be Mister unpopular right now. I did.

You're going to lower the. But are you going to lower the wedding budget? 20 grand? Not.

I'm going to say, see, I would.

Do that if I hadn't already paid, like, half of it in deposit.

Okay, because I was going to say, if I was in your situation, I go down to the courthouse, get the marriage certificate, little private thing, then do a big celebration after we paid off the debt.

That hindsight 2020.

I know, bro. I know. Hey, listen, I had to.

At least you can set a wedding and have a wedding.

I didn't say. You just said you separate the ceremony from the actual.

I hear you now. I would not go into your. This is not you, Drew.

For.

I'm not saying this about you, but to America, I would not. Or the world, I would not go into debt for a wedding. But if you have money set aside, you know, for the wedding.

I know.

Enjoy the wedding.

But I'm just gonna say that's a female point of view. Every dude in America and around the world is with me. You go through all this planning, all the stress, meetings about stuff we don't give a crap about. You go through a ceremony that you barely remember anything except for the vows, and you're just trying not to pass out.

It's true.

And then you walk down the aisle, you have a moment about two minutes before anybody in the wedding party gets you, and you go, what was that all about? I just want the honeymoon.

I had a fun wedding.

I did, too. Stacey would be so upset with that, that point of view. On behalf of every dude out there.

It is a tradition that I think is great. Now, I would not go into debt for it, but I think it's a great tradition if you have the money saved. I just know how stressed out he's good.

You're gonna be great.

They're all gonna do great.

We need to get her on the phone and to talk about this working wallet business. That's the call America needs to hear. Just tell. Alright. We'll argue about it during the break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back, America. You're joining us here on the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And we are now joined by a very special guest, longtime friend of the organization and what I've believe is truly a great american. Here to talk about a really cool american thing he is Mister dirty jobs. Mister Mike Rowe. Mike, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Always a privilege, always an honor.

There it is, folks, the voice. We're going to do our best. Just let him talk as much as possible. My whole goal is you're writing children's books now.

Yeah.

You should have him. Voice the children's audiobook.

We had a nine year old. My nine year old daughter did it. I don't know what's cuter.

So it comes down to Mike for.

The nine year old. I don't know.

I'm so tired of competing with nine year olds. There's always a nine year old girl out there trying to take my job.

I'm telling you. All right. Fun stuff. So, Mike, here's why you're here. You are somebody who loves this country. You love history. You love the way this country works, good, bad and ugly. And you've got a new project. It's fun for a guy who produces a lot of tv. Now you're getting into the movie business. Tell us what is going on. Why getting in the movie business?

Look, it's another happy accident, honestly. I mean, every good thing that's happened to me in the last 30 years has been a Forrest Gumpian kind of, you know, misadventure. And this happened because I started writing stories eight years ago in the style of Paul Harvey for my podcast. Those stories were turned into a tv show, and now nine of them have been adapted for this movie. If you don't know the Paul Harvey format, it was, it was called the rest of the story. And it was such a great way to learn something you didn't know about somebody you do. So these are mysteries. They're all super patriotic in nature. They're all stitched together with the trip to our capital, where I visit some of the memorials and monuments that honor some of the people that are in the movie. But ultimately, it's a film called something to stand for. And I did it because I'm hoping that there are still some things in our country that people on either side of the aisle can look to and agree. You know, we have to be, we have to talk to each other again. And I'm convinced that there's still a few things that we can all look at and say, yeah, I'd stand for that.

Yeah, Mike, for you. Because I've followed some of your stuff and I feel like the way you present things and the way you, you treat people and the way you go about things, you can't argue it, right? Like, I think there's a lot of kindness in that, and I hope. And so when you say that, when you're like, gosh, I feel like that there's something that we can both agree on both sides of the aisle. Do you feel like you've seen glimpses of that just by talking about this movie and other things in life? Because we just need hope. I mean, we're obviously in an election year. We won't go crazy politics here in the segment, but just in general, you just see the divide more and more when it, when it heats up like this. But for you, you know, this message of hope, I think, is really key. And do you see that, that it is possible?

Sure. I mean, dirty jobs wasn't a polemic, but when I look back at those old episodes and a lot of the other stuff that I've worked on, it feels hopeful simply because politics isn't in it. You know, if you're in a sewer, working with a sewer inspector, the first thing that's going to come up is probably not the policy regarding this, that or the other thing. Right. So, look, I think today the problem is our politics has infected our patriotism. And these two things are, they have nothing to do with each other. Not really. You know, I mean, I'll tell you. In 1998, 70% of Americans identified themselves as extremely or intensely patriotic. Today that number is 38%.

Oh, wow.

So what happens to a country when the patriotism starts to gently bleed out of the body politic? You know, under 35 year old, the number's closer to 18%. So we have to figure out a way to, to disagree with the other side, but not in an anti american way. There's too many. I didn't make this movie for those who are convinced the country is a rotten place. I made it because of them. I want the rest of the people to see that there is still a shocking amount of common ground. And if we can come together on those elements in our shared past and agree with those things, who knows? Maybe we can stop fighting about the headlines.

You're listening to the voice of Mike Rowe here on the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins us. And Mike is here to talk about a new film. And this is a special release. He'll talk about that in a little bit. It's called something to stand for, and it's only going to be out for a short amount of time. More on that in a little bit. Mike, when you look back on this, you talk about the stories that are all mysteries and they all have a thread that combines with you being there in Washington, DC. One of the things I learned from you earlier today is there was an unscripted moment, which has happened a lot in your career, you know, which is what's so beautiful about what you do. But it occurred to me when you were sharing it with me that it may have been one of your favorite parts of the filming. Talk about that unscripted moment.

Yeah. And honestly, I hadn't given it much thought until you brought it up. But we were talking about the difference between making a tv show like dirty jobs, where all of the cameras are basically behind the scenes cameras. Right. We never stopped rolling. We never did a second take. There was no script. There was no casting. There was none of that. It was an honest look at a day on the job. Well, movies are the opposite of that. Movies are highly scripted, and the stories in these movies I wrote in a very deliberate, very intentional way. And so that's fun, but it's a. It's a different set of muscles. And so we were filming in the Capitol, and I was setting up for a shot, you know, there was. The lights were just so. And everything was placed just right. And I was going to walk in and say something extraordinarily profound, you know? And I glanced over, and there were an honor flight was coming in, right? So, like, a dozen old men in wheelchairs, some with walkers, their families are with them, the volunteers. And I could see at a glance, these guys are just overwhelmed, you know?

And the point of this movie, really, more than anything, is to just elevate a sense of gratitude. And everything I was trying to do on purpose in the film was coming together great. But all of a sudden, I'm looking at this real thing, and I said to the director, I'm going to go over here for a minute. Let me bring the cameras. Like, what are you doing, dude? We're trying to make a movie. What are you doing? And I went over and I said hello to some of these guys, and I met a guy named Andy. Michael. He reminded me my dad. He was 91 years old, same age, fought in the same battles in Korea, and he had never been to the memorial. And he was sitting there in his wheelchair in front of this wall of stars, telling me what it meant to be here with friends and family, you know? And when you see tears roll down a face like that, look, I mean, you'd have to be crazy not to find a way to put that in the movie. And so we did. And so, in the end, this is not a documentary.

This is not a big narrative. There are 300 actors in it, but they don't speak to each other. They're just there to bring my stories to life. And now there's also an old man named Andy Michael that's in it, who's there because he loves the country, too. And even though he can't walk, he will give us something to stand for.

That's amazing. That's so. It's so powerful. So out of all the stories in the movie, which one's your favorite?

So this is tough, Rachel, right? Because the stories are all mysteries. And if I tell you right, so give me, like.

Because I don't know much about it. So when you're saying all this, I'm like, hey, what does this mean? Is it. Is it historical past presidents? Is it, like, give me a.

What can you tell us about a certain maybe mystery?

I can tell you that at its heart, the key to this format is to tell you something you do not know about someone you do. So I'll tell you very quickly. One of the stories we tell has to do with a very famous person who was challenged to a duel, a deadly duel. He had written something in the newspapers under a pseudonym that caused great offense. Great offense.

I know who this is.

All you history people over here. I'm like, dad.

Pistols. Dawn. Pistols at dawn is what's required. Okay. But our. Our challengee knows something about the protocol of dueling, which is the challenger doesn't get to set the terms. The challengee does. And so this person. Challenge. Challenge to a duel says pistols at dawn. No, that's not how we're going to do it. We're going to do it with broadswords in a pit. So they dig a pit, and they draw a line, and these two men face off with broadswords. And what happens next literally changes the trajectory of the country. I would even say that as a result of that moment, we would not be sitting here.

What?

But for it?

How about that for a tease?

I'm gonna be googling, Mike.

Speaker two. Yes, he is speaker two.

No googling. No cheating. Go cheating.

No cheating.

You'll love it.

By the way, the movie is something to stand for. It is about our country, and in an election year when you don't know who you're gonna vote for, you may not like who you're voting for or whatever. Vote for this movie. Go see it. It's in theaters June 27 through July 4. Is that right? That is release.

That is correct.

Go see it. Something to stand for. Micro. Thanks. For being with us.

Somethingtostandfor dot movie. Check out the trailer. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll love it.

Welcome to the Ramsey show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. And our phone number to jump in is triple 8825-5225 that's triple 888-25-5225 all right, partner, you ready to go? Ready to get to the phones?

Ready, partner.

Partner. I love that. It threw you off. Yeah. You know?

Yeah.

I didn't say like padna. Like. Like we're on a. Like we're on a rain, cowboy.

I feel like I'm cowgirl.

My radio partner.

No, but I am. I'm. I'm running. It's me. A great hour, Ken.

Okay, I can tell she's ready now. I'm glad I woke you up before we went to Jeremy, who is in an. Jeremy. How can we help?

Oh, yes. Hi, Ken. Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's going on?

Hey. Glad you're here, Ken. It's a work related career question, or maybe more of a. Just some guidance. We're moving out of state in a couple of years, and I'm going to be taking a. Probably a significant aid decrease and also probably in a whole new industry. Not a new industry, but a new. It's going to be a new job. I have a niche job here in southern California, and where I'm moving, I'm going to have to essentially build myself back up, I believe. And I'm just a little concerned and confused because it's been about twelve years I've been self employed working from home and. And I'm just. I'm scared, I guess.

Sure. Well, will you be self employed in the new state?

I'd like to be, but I don't think that's gonna start out that way. I'm in the real estate industry. What, do you work for a group of them? I work for a group of investors. We buy and sell distressed homes, you know, foreclosures.

But what part do you play in that? I understand that business, but what are you doing day to day?

Okay. I am a real estate agent. I do list some of the properties, but I'm actually. I coordinate with all of our realtors all over Southern California. I do the title work. I do the pre work to buy the properties that we're going to end up, you know, rehabbing and reselling.

Okay. And so you don't believe that you can go into and that you said you're self employed but yet you work for them. So is this like a contract basis that you offer your services, so you work for yourself, but they pay you for your time?

Yeah. There's, it's a group of three investors. I do property management, accounting, and also I handle the, like I said, the trustee sales, the acquisitions.

What I'm trying to understand, and I hope this helps you as we walk through this, fear is, is the fear is all about this big risk financially and starting over. Remember that this, anytime change is involved, fear is always the issue. Like change is what's driving the fear. So what I'm trying to help you understand is, is how much change are we actually making and can some of these changes be good? That's what I'm trying to coach you through. So what state are you moving to? And tell us specifically why you don't believe that you can start out a little bit better rate of pay than you think. You're going to give us the details?

Sure. Yes. I'm in Orange County, California. And we'll be moving to Nampa, Idaho, which is just outside of Boise. Boise. And I got into this twelve years ago as an assistant to one of the real estate agents. And I've just worked myself up every year to where I'm at now and I just don't know what money. And right now, last year, my taxes is 131,000.

Okay. And what's behind the two year timeline you're calling us today knowing we're moving to Boise or outside of Boise in two years? What's driving that?

It's my, my stepson here. He's going to be finishing high school.

Okay.

In two years.

I love that you got a two year on ramp here. I'd be planning several visits to that area and I would be looking at figuring out answers to the things I currently don't have answers to. And I think the answers you're looking for is how do I transfer all of this experience and knowledge that I have over the last twelve years into doing something similar in Boise? Am I right? Or is it a completely different thing you're looking to do?

I mean, I'd love to do this same thing.

Jeremy, not to interrupt you and I could be misunderstanding part of the business model of this, but I do know some people that, that have investors that are actually. The investors live in California and they're buying homes in Nashville and they're doing stuff and they have a guy on the ground in Nashville. Could you use the investors still and just do the same thing, but do it in Boise and find, I mean, the deals will look different, probably money wise, but could you still say, hey, I still want to do this role, but boots on the ground here in Boise and I can find a town and go to town, if you will.

Yeah, that's great. I'm glad you brought that up. And, yes, I have a network here and my investors actually don't know that I'm going to be leaving in two years. But they have talked about doing stuff in Arizona, Nevada. Yeah, other spots. So, yeah, my goal would be to go there and start it up, obviously on a smaller scale.

Totally.

And grow it there.

Yeah. I mean, one of our great friends literally came from Reno and his investor was a Reno, California guy and he's doing deals in Nashville with this friend of ours and using, you know what I mean? So I'm like, there's a chance that your connections are there.

So what were you planning? That's Rachel's idea. And you've kicked that around. Love that idea, by the way. But what were you planning to do that was going to be such a big pay cut in Boise?

Well, I was going to, you know, get my real estate license there and probably start out maybe in property management just to get something, you know, consistent going as I build up out there and hopefully use my network from here or meet people out there.

Right. And so you're anticipating based on that kind of a job and you've looked it up and that's where you've come up with this number where you're taking a sizable hit. What are you anticipating that actual, that actual salary being based on your current.

Half at best half, maybe 60,000.

Jeremy, no wonder you're scared. I think you've got two years and a lot of visits and a lot of research on the Internet to see how transferable your current skill set and current experience is. I don't think you need to be settling. I think this is a bad move and I would literally challenge you. If you accept that you're going to go to outside Boise and you're have to start making 60 or 70 a year, then I think you've undershot your potential and I think you got some work to do. But I. But I. I think this is the wrong narrative. You started this call off with the wrong narrative in the wrong question. You know, it needs to be, how do I transfer my experience and skill set, Ken, to a new area? That's the question. And I actually think, you know, the answer to that. You got to find out who's doing something similar to Rachel's point. Point to what you're doing now. It doesn't have to be apples to apples, but certainly we start in real estate, and certainly you've got experience and skillset in real estate. I'd be starting there, not.

Well, I'm going to have to take.

A property management job, talk to your current investors, and say, hey, you want to keep doing deals in Boise, you.

Know, yeah, I think you got a couple of options there, but you got to dig a little bit more and have the conversation that Rachel's talking about. You with us?

I am, yes. Yeah. Definitely.

Don't settle. Now. Listen, if that ends up being what the reality is, then you and your wife and family are making a decision to leave southern California where salaries are higher but so is cost of living. And so, you know, you got to look at all, but you got two years to figure this out. I think you have plenty of time to figure out how you go from 130 to 130 30 or maybe 130 to more in a place where that money goes a lot farther. By the way, that economy is booming out there. It is one of the hottest places to move. So I think you're going to be okay. I think you got some more homework to do and set your sights a little higher. We're not getting on you. We're on team Jeremy. We're cheering for you. You got this. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back, America. You're listening to the Ramsey show. Excited that you're with us. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 that's triple 888-25-5225 hey, you want to move up on the ladder so you can, can make more money, get out of debt faster, save money? We're here to help. You want to knock out the debt, get it out of your life? We're here to help. That is what we're discussing today. It's your life, your money. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is joining me this hour. Triple 888-825-5225 let's go to Salt Lake City next. And that's where Ryan is. Ryan, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. I have a question for you. It's kind of got an ethical component and a financial legal component. It.

Okay.

So a couple years ago, my wife and I took a trip to Europe. We rented a car. The quote of the car was about $1,200. And some plans changed.

We were there.

We decided to return early. We spoke with the company. They said we'd get about dollar 300 off of the initial quote. So eventually, we returned it, and the final charge was for the full amount. But in addition to that, there was a second charge for about $2,400. So at this point, it's a $3,600.06 day car rental.

So, my gosh, obviously.

Was it a Maserati?

What was the extra charge?

Well, it was unclear. And so they said there was, like, a one way fee, like an international, because we returned it from a different company or, sorry, different country than we originally planned to. So it just didn't make any sense. And so we tried to contact them. They kind of just, like, marked our ticket as resolved without even responding to us. We couldn't get in contact with them on the phone or anything. So eventually, I just did a chargeback on my credit card for a partial chargeback for the amount that we actually owed, which is around $800. Right. So about six months later, they sent us into collections for that, and they tried to come after us for it. We finally got them to, like, review the case and see what was going on, and they found that instead of charging us $200 for the one way fee, they charged us $2,000, an extra zero.

That's important.

Yeah, which is kind of a big deal. So it still doesn't account for the total difference. Like, there's still something off there, but it's closer. Right. So they said, okay, we'll send you an invoice for the difference. At this point, I was ready to pay whatever they asked, within reason, just to be done with it.

Sure.

But instead of sending us an invoice, they ended up canceling both of the initial charges. So now we paid zero. So I was just. I was done with them at this point. I got. Canceled the credit card so they wouldn't have access to it or anything. They're just incompetent. I held onto that money for about six to eight months, ready for when they came back for it. And they never did. Finally, about ten months later, they came back into collections for the full 3600. So my question is, kind of ethically, do I need to settle this debt with this company? And then I know you're not international debt collections experts. Right. But what are kind of the legal, financial implications of not paying it?

Do you have anything in writing?

I have lots of things.

Okay. So a lot of it is. It is written down because I was going to say, I mean, because how much is it now that they're, that there are asking for in the collections?

3600.

3600. And have you contacted them since that's come up, because it, like, your point is? I'm like, I don't, I can't tell if they're, like, evil people trying to steal your money or if they're incompetent and they just are. They just have no attention to detail. Their, their admin processes are just terrible. And you just kind of get, keep getting the runaround. Right. So do, which one do you feel like it is?

It's the latter. I won't say their name, but if you were to go to Europe to rent a car.

Yeah.

Direct and rent a car, it would.

Be one of the, I mean, honestly, for $3,600, I'm probably wrapping back around to the company again and saying, guys, you messed up again. Here's the, here's what you said in the last email here and here. I'm not paying this. I'll pay this amount and we'll get it settled. But you know what I mean? I would probably just kind of keep, I would probably keep fighting it because, again, it's more incompetence than them. Like.

Right.

You know, here's the question trying to come after you.

I'm with Rachel, but I wouldn't fight it. It seems to me that based on what you all told us, there was a point at which they acknowledged. The question is, do you have in writing when they acknowledge that the charge was $200, not 2000?

I do, but that still doesn't account for the total difference. And so that's what worries me is that, like, they found one mistake, but there's something else in there because it should be way less still than what they're.

Right. And so. Okay, I get that. And then do you have what the original agreement was for? Do you have that in writing?

Huh?

I do. I do. But it's also complicated because it was in euros, and so there's the exchange rate, and that's changed over time.

I get it. I'm going somewhere with this? Because I'm with you. You want this out of your life. Okay.

Right?

And so this back and forth, back and forth. I mean, this could be like Groundhog day for the next 30 years, it sounds like. These people are such idiots. I mean, this is just moronic. So I would try to come to a number based on the original rental agreement. Rachel, check me on this. I'm just trying to common sense my way through this. Based on the original rental agreement, the fact that they acknowledge they already just mysteriously slapped $2,000 on it when it should have been 200, I would come down to a number and I would go and I would write all this out and, like, painstakingly, like, of what.

You really do owe, right?

What you think you owe.

It was $1,200. They were going to take 300 off. It's 900. Then the 200 charge, because you returned in a different country, which is fair. That one way rental thing, that's a real thing.

Real.

So then put that together. It's 1100 bucks.

And I would pay that and say, we are willing to pay this. It certainly can't be any more than this. If anything, it's less. But I'm so tired of dealing with you. All that I'll do. I mean, I come to some conclusion.

Honestly, to Ryan, I think dealing with the collection people, because naturally, you can settle collections. Once the debts and collections, you can usually get pennies on the dollar.

That's actually a great point. You're saying deal directly.

Just do the collections and be done with it. But have in writing, again, all of this in writing. So the company comes after you. Ethically, there's nothing on you. You're like, no, no, no. I paid. I paid it. I paid what I owed, and this is what it was. And this is what we settled with the collections company. So that's what I would do.

That's a great point. Stop dealing with the company direct. Just deal with the collections people. Go, sorry. And you guys can follow up on the ethical component.

I mean, it's two years since that happened, and so that's kind of out of our budget at this point. And we could get the money together if we wanted to, but, you know, like, ethically, am I obligated to pay this company that doesn't know what they're doing and, you know, cost me all this time?

Rachel, what say you? She's pondering.

I mean, Eileen. Yes. Eileen. Yes. I think you use the car. You use the service for that.

Yeah.

Well, you use the service and you. You.

I mean, I'm with you. Yeah. There is an ethical. Like, you use the service, you pay for that. I know, but nothing more.

Mm hmm.

I mean, if it's, like, $30 or something at some, I don't know, pastry shop or something, and after three years, fine. But, I mean, it's a couple.

The only reason I. Okay, tell you the reason. I sat there and I looked at you, see, what you're gonna say is you could make a case for the service being so they should just give it to you that a legitimate manager would go, we've caused you more stress and blood pressure. We're gonna wipe the whole thing. Thing off. All right. I got my wife salmon salad taken off the bill the other night on a takeout order because it was 20 minutes longer than what they told me.

Well, there you go.

I showed up. I said, your gal just called me and said the salmon, that everything was ready. She said it'd be ready in two minutes. It's been 20. I didn't even raise my voice. It was very kind, but I was like, this is crazy.

Yeah.

And the manager said, you know what, sir? I apologize. We'll take the salmon salad.

Sure.

When. That's what the company do. But this company can't. They can't.

Either way, I'm making a point that I see where he's at.

But that's the merchant.

That's their call.

Giving it.

Yeah, but I could see why this guy's done with this rental car company.

Yeah, totally. Totally.

Darn.

I don't know. I think you would just. I think not reroll paying it because you use the service, right, and. And. But paying your fair. Your fair share.

Well, here's the follow up question, Rachel. Ryan, if you're still with us, I mean, he doesn't have it in his budget now. What?

Yeah. Then, yeah, y'all need a. Yeah, I probably wouldn't make a move until I had the cash, and maybe. And I don't think it's unethical to talk to the collections to that point and pay even less. Like, if they would settle for less, I would. That's. That's.

I don't think it's unethical to kick the can down the road and some yourself, Ryan. Meaning. Yeah, you pay it because you owe it. Yeah, but I kick the can down a little bit. If it took me six months to save the money, I go. I'm gonna go. I'm sorry. I forgot to get to that email.

And I'm sure as long as I, like, screw up your credit or, like, mess something up with you guys financially. But sorry, Ryan, not fun.

Yikes.

Not fun.

And if that's the only thing I don't like about international travel, is that a little nervous about getting jerked around a little bit when you don't live in that country, travel horror stories. We should, we should have a whole segment on those that actually be a great segment if you've been ripped off. Kelly Daniel is saying, what is the email? Really quick. Sorry, Dave. Honor Davon Air yeah, Dave on air@ramseysolutions.com.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. Someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you@ramseysolutions.com. agent ramsaysolutions.com Agent.

The Ramsey show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. Rachel Cruz is here. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are here for you. Let's get right to the phones. Jasmine is going to lead us off in Los Angeles. Jasmine, how can we help?

Hi. Good afternoon. So I'm training to be a mental health therapist, and I'm about 65% through my master's and counseling program. I'm 30, single and a renter. To finish my master's program, an internship is going to take about $29,000. And even though I have that in savings, I'm concerned about spending it because, one, it will wipe out my savings. And two, more importantly, I'm starting to have some fear about my earning potential in this career path. I spoke to several licensed therapists in my area, and I asked them about their careers, and then I tactfully asked them about their incomes. And it varied between 50,000 to 70,000, with one person making what seemed like $90,000. And the majority of these therapists were married. And the one single person that I spoke to said that her finances were really, really tight. And so I feel stuck because my professors tell me that I'm really gifted in counseling and that I could help a lot of people, and I believe that. And I'm also really concerned about the practical side, like making enough money in this field and someday buying a house. So I'm trying to figure out how I can make this work financially as a single person.

What are you doing for a living as you're in school right now? And how much are you making?

Yes, I've been actually in school full time, but before that I worked in higher education.

And what were you making?

I was making about 75.

Okay. And so how are you paying your bills, or if you don't have any bills, how are you living if you're a full time student?

I'm a full time student, and then I have several nannying positions, so that helps me with rent, and then I've just been paying tuition with my savings.

Okay. And you have a car?

I do have a car, yes.

Is it paid for?

It is paid for, yes.

And so what would you say you're nannying if we were to just run an exercise on a spreadsheet? The amount of money you're making every month is a nanny to pay your basics while you're a full time student. How much is that a month?

2.32.3, 2300.

Yes.

All right, so here's what's interesting. You're managing to stay afloat while being a full time student just on nanny, right. And. And the fact that you have the money saved to be able to get through school and not go into debt, it feels like you've got something that you're afraid of that you don't need to be afraid of. I mean, you're not going to make $2,300 a month. Okay? And so I know you've done the homework. I love that you've talked to other therapists. But the other issue is your zip code. And if it were me and I wanted to help people, I wouldn't live in a very expensive zip code. When I was starting out at something, I'd go somewhere else in the country. I don't know if that's on the table for you, but I. I guess I'm trying to poke holes in your fear, not. I'm not challenging you, jasmine. I think all the things you're feeling are real. I'm not in any way discounting them. Please hear me say that. But I'm poking holes in your fear, and your fear isn't dealing with any kind of evidence right now. Okay? You.

You are managing to stay afloat, nanny. Imagine if you were in a thriving practice and built your way up and eventually had your own practice, and you don't go into debt, and you have no debt right now, correct?

Yeah. And that's what I'm afraid of. I just. I mean, afraid of what being in school full time and working the type of hours, it's like 70 hours.

And how much longer do you have left, Jasmine?

I have a year and a half left.

Okay. So this time in December of 25, you'll graduate, is that right?

Sorry. A little. No, because I have practicum. It'll be in 2026. Right.

Okay.

And so again, what are you afraid? You're afraid of the nannying?

Plus, can I ask this, is the nannying just what you're making on nannying, Jasmine, is that keeping you afloat or are you still dipping into savings, too? So how much of that. How much of that is it? Are you dipping in?

Probably around 800, $900. So.

So an extra thousand a month.

Okay, that's a little. Okay. I was. That's why I was asking the question.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I think what's hard about that specific career path and is, is you have to be in the chair. Like, it's you. You don't get to like, you know, I mean, it is. It is you that is going to be the one. And so there's only so many hours a day that you can practice. Right. I mean, you could go 10 hours a day if you wanted. Eight to 08:00 p.m. but, but there is a limit there because of that. Now, I think where the growth can happen is what Ken said. You kind of get a little bit creative and do you start your own practice, have therapists under you? You know, that kind of thing. Right. In the future? And that's where your income could grow. But for the immediate, the immediate need that you have while in school and with this, I mean, like, yeah, it's, I mean, something's got to give because if you're dipping into the savings, that's the savings that you're going to use to keep you afloat tuition wise. So you're either going to have to pause for six months, Jasmine, which no one likes to do that well in school and save up again and just work a lot and have a big chunk to float your way through tuition and lifestyle the remainder, you know, year and a half left of school or find a way to up your hours as we speak.

But there, I mean, it's probably going to have to be one or the other because you have to have this other cash for your tuition.

Right.

Right. Jasmine, how much do you love the idea of sitting across from somebody and meeting them in the middle of their pain and helping them with healing and transformation?

I, little, part of me is. A part of me really wants to. And then a part of me is maybe a little bit nervous about being able to do it well full time, day after day.

Meaning? Meaning the trauma and dealing with the heaviness of that day in and day out.

Right? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Because I think there's, that's a whole different thing. And I didn't expect to get that from you. I just wanted to gage how much you want to do this type of role because if you aren't willing to suffer through it and suffer takes on a wide range of things. The reason that we talk about passion when we talk about loving work is because passion actually means to suffer. That's the root word. And so it's been referred to that for a long time. And so there's some meaning there. And here's the thing. If you don't think it's something that you can deal with, it's okay to press pause and it's okay to go. You know what? I'm this far in. I've got to think long term now. The only thing I don't want you to do is, is let the fear of money because I think we've poked enough holes in that, I hope, because I think you can do quite well financially in that role. Can you do well in Los Angeles or do well enough to live with margin? I don't know, but that's a zip code issue issue, not an occupation issue.

And so, but what I'm hearing now is some serious, serious doubt, which is worth exploring. So the question becomes, is the doubt you're feeling, is that because you don't believe something good can happen? In other words, you don't think you're good enough or you're strong enough and I would get some real help there and you know where to go get that and get some real feedback because it sounds to me like your professors think you're really bright. Right. Um, but, but if you don't think you're built for it and wired for it, that's okay, too.

Yeah. You need to take Ken's assessment, Jasmine, when you get off the phone.

Yeah, I want to give it to you. I'm curious. I'm going to give you the get clear assessment. I want you to take it, Jasmine. And I think it's going to drive at the. What motivates Jasmine and if it matches up with this, then I think there's a way. But if for some reason you don't think you can cut it, you know, you don't have to go through another year and a half just because you started, Rachel. That's a big issue in today's world.

It's a lot.

Press pause.

Yeah.

Don't spend another time. You got some money in the bank. She made 75,000 before. Don't just go through a master's program because you started it.

That's right.

Only go through it if you're going to use it. And you have to have it.

And it has the Roi on it.

Jasmine, hang on the line. We're going to get you the get clear assessment in the book. Find the work you're wired to do, quick read, quick assessment, give you some perspective. Hang on the line. This is the Ramsay show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me in studio. Our scripture of the day is from James. Four three. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on pleasures. And then our quote of the day from art. Laughter I've never heard of a poor person spinning himself into prosperity, let alone I've never heard of a poor person taxing himself into prosperity. Gotta go. Love a good tax and spend quote. It's right up my alley there. Anti taxes, folks. Anti taxes. Marissa is up in Vancouver, British Columbia, a place that I want to go to but have never been. Marissa, how can we help?

Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. And, yeah, they call it the most beautiful place on earth, but it's also the most expensive place in Canada to live. Yeah. So I'm 28 years old, and I've saved $200,000 for a down payment. And I would really like to take that step, but I have two options that I'm considering, and they're very different. And I am stuck and would like your opinion on which one you would choose.

Okay, here we go. Give us the details on option one first.

Okay, so option one. My mom sent me a listing for a house a week ago, and I haven't really been looking, seriously. But basically, it's a detached home on a quarter or on three quarters of an acre. It's behind the provincial park in an area that's a lot. It's a lot more rural. So it's $720,000. And it's very rare to be able to find a detached home within about 2 hours, 3 hours radius of where I live for under a million dollars. So it could be a really great opportunity. I work from home, so the idea of being more rural doesn't realLy. It's not an issue for me. And I love the house. It would be absolutely perfect for me. It's older, but that's fine. I just had such a good feeling when I looked at it.

Option two.

Option two. My parents have offered me the opportunity to build a second house on their propertY. My parents own two and a half acres. That's a lot closer to town. And my dad is a construction professional, so he would be able to do a lot of the legwork himseLf. That would save us a lot of money. And they expect that the build would cost $400,000, and then I would pay for the build, and then we would work something out. But I would get. That value of the property would become. Would ENd up in my name. So I think we worked it out, and I would. If I built on their property for the $400,000, I'd put the 200 down and then have a mortgage for 200, and I would own about 18% of their property. My conflict is that being able to build on my parents property means I would only have to have a mortgage for $200,000. And that lowers the amount of interest that I'd have to pay significantly. And I think I could probably pay it off in around seven years. Whereas if I buy the house that's out in the country that I love that's ready to go right now, I am going to have to have a $500,000 mortgage, and I'm going to be paying it for the next 30 years, and that interest is going to amount to a lot more money in the long run.

Okay, so first and foremost, the last comment, you're like, I'm going to be paying it for 30 years. No, you're not. You can. You can pay this down faster than that. Okay? So just. Just have hope in that. Here's where I. I'm gonna do option one, and I'm gonna tell you why. You're. When people build on family members property, there is a point that you end up getting stuck there because there is a, you know, are you married?

I am dating someone.

Okay.

But I am making this decision independently.

Sure, sure. But I'm just saying, you guys get married, you have kids, he transfers jobs, and suddenly mom and dad have strangers living on their property who are buying your house. And do mom and dad want that? And, like, it starts to the relational aspect. So if you do option two. Number one, I would have a legal document and having new property lines drawn, and that's going to be better for resale, because if someone else. If you have to move one day, someone else is going to come in and be like, well, I don't know. There's some document that they're saying 18% of the land. But it's some people we don't know. It's the girls, the girls parents. And if it's. Yeah.

Part of the. Part of the biggest issue is that we're not able to subdivide. Okay, so I would be permanently tied to their property.

Yep. So for resell. For resell. That makes it really difficult. And the resell. The reason I say that, though, Marissa, is I want freedom for you in your life emotionally. This isn't the financial discussion. And there is something that I hear from people when they live on family property. Sometimes it works. So let me say that there's a percentage that it works, and it's fine. But there's also a level of, oh, my gosh. I have this guilt now because eight years later, we're moving to America. Like, I don't know what I'm gonna. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Mom and dad, no one's gonna buy this home because there's no property. Like, it really messes up the future financially. It makes so much sense. I get it. But I think it attaches you to your parents. And even if they're great people in all of it, there is something there. It's a big portion of your net worth that is tied to this. And there's an emotional element.

Can I ask real quick on this point? Rachel's making a very good point. Do you have siblings?

I have one younger brother, and I.

Think that makes it a little more complicated too. And Wills, and she's got some of the property. I'm with Rachel on this one. I'm just curious, what do you want to do? When you called us, which way were you leaning before you said, I want your take?

I change it based on the hour. The problem is that this other property that I'm interested in, it is unique. It's been on the market for a while. It won't be the easiest to sell either because it takes a special person to want to live where it is.

Yeah, but that's not attached to no property.

My parents property. And I also have to be. I mean, the thing is, is that my parents have said that if I wanted out for any reason, that they would buy me out. Like, they have other money, that they could buy me out.

So who would they buy me out?

And they rent it out. Then they have to pay capital gain tax on that income. And my parents will then be retired, and then that's going to impact their pensions. So it does. It does get really messy. And I do have a sibling, so I need to consider my parents. And what happens if they die?

It's a mess.

And how the property is split.

Yep, yep. Yeah. You're asking all the right questions. And remember this, Marissa. Dave said this on a show recently. I was like, that's good. Talk about all the deeds. This is everything from, you know, divorce, death, addiction, drugs. I mean, like. Like, I don't know, all the messiness of life that can happen when you're in a financial deal with someone living, proximity, your home. I mean, all of it. So, yeah, if you guys.

I have a deeper question. I think. I think we're going a different direction. Marissa, I'm just curious, if. If the option one house was the same price as the mom and dad situation, would you even be thinking about it?

No, I would choose the option one.

All right, let me ask you another thing. What if another house showed up 30 days from now that was closer to town or whatever. Whatever. And it wasn't some old thing, and it was in roughly the same price. Which one would you be interested in? Option one or this new opportunity?

So I think that's what's really attractive to me, is the land value. Like, it's on three quarters of an acre, and it would be impossible to get something that price closer to town.

I didn't ask. I wanted you to play the. So you're sort of answering my question. You really like the land option, is that right? It's not the house, it's the land for.

The house is very cute and totally suits me.

I'm going option one. And financially, I understand.

But you're over 20%. Yeah.

You're in a wild position financially still, Emerissa, I think you can. I think you can take an, you know, four extra mortgage payments a year. What that does, you know, to calculate, like, you can do this, you can pay it off.

You're not going to be paying off.

I think it's a cleaner, more independent way. It keeps. I just think it keeps it. It just keeps it clean. I would. And the whole idea with the land and parents, we've gotten this question more recently, I feel like this past year, and I get it and I. Again, some people, it works, but most of the time it gets really messy. From a legal standpoint, a property standpoint, taxes. I mean, all of it. And you've done the research. I mean, I'm so proud of you as you're rattling all of it off you've. You've thought through it, but I think. I think option one, that's what I would do.

Judge Rachel has ruled, folks. And Judge Ken. I concur.

Okay.

I concur. Where there's a part of me that makes her. Makes me want to tell her, wait, there could be another problem. Yeah.

Yeah, that's fair.

She seems like a hurt, but I'm okay. She's done a good job. Hey, great hour. Thank you, Rachel Cruz. Thanks to Kelly, Daniel and a merry band of folks behind the glass. They keep us on the air and you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's everydollar. The everydollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress how to planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with everydollar for free right now. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com everydollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions.com everydollar.