Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Ramsey Personality. Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend Ramsey Personality, Jay to Warsaw. And we're answering your questions, life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything, give us a call. So first up in Gainesville, Florida, we have Cameron on the line. Hey, Cameron, welcome to the show.

Howdy. Thank you. So my question is, my parents just sold their house in Texas, and they can get a considerable amount of money for it. And they're currently in the process of basically planning for their future. And I recently also purchased a house in Gainesville, Florida, which is part investment property. I'm living there at the same time, renting out rooms in addition to it. And my father brought up to me, hey, with all this extra money that we now have, would you like us to pay off to your house? And then that way, you'll just pay us back instead of paying back the bank. And I've heard before Dave talk about not good to take money from family members. I just want to hear you all's perspective on it, the pros and the cons here.

Yeah. I think if you look at the pro side, sometimes families in the situation, they do it with less interest and all this stuff. But I think honestly, Cameron, there's just more cons in this because I think the math side sometimes can play into people. And they're like, Oh, well, they're not going to charge me interest or whatever the deal is that's a better deal than the bank. But here's the truth. I'm like, It's a house, number one. You're not talking about, We're going to pay off a $5,000 car. It's your house. And so for now and the next foreseeable 5, 10 years, you're going to be having Christmases and family dinners, and you're going to want Cameron to go on a great trip. And they may be thinking, Wow, why is he going on a trip? He needs to be paying us back. It starts to play into the relationship in a pretty deep way where your parents end up being your bank. And again, all good intentions. I hear that because I think a lot of parents go into this. And their heart in it is so good. But the way it just plays out, Cameron, it just ends up getting messier.

Yeah, I'm just thinking about, okay, so if you're in the baby step where you're paying off your house early, you might commit to, hey, we're going to make an extra mortgage payment every month, right? But then something might come up in your house where you go, You know what? We're not going to make a full extra mortgage payment. We're going to do this or that. And you have the freedom to choose what you're going to do. But when your parents are the bank, and if they get used to you paying on a certain schedule, a certain amount, and then you and your wife decide there's another priority right now, we're not going to do as much. Like Rachel said, I just feel like there's this weird feeling of, Oh, they stopped paying 6,000 a month, and now they're only paying 4,000. I wonder what that's about. I just feel like there's so much there. And then, and I'm not saying anything negative, but there are the negative side of things that we have to think about, which is something with your parent situation changes and suddenly they need more money, or something with your situation changes and suddenly you don't have as much money.

And you can't afford the house anymore for some reason, and then they are looking for... Yeah.

There's a lot. I wouldn't do it.

Okay. Because, Cameron-.

Sorry, let me ask.

You one follow-up real quick. Because you said something about an investment property. This isn't their house, is it? It's yours.

No, it's not. This is my own personal house. It's more than what I currently need. And so I have... With it being in Gainesville, it's near the local college. So I have young adults that live in the additional rooms.

Got you.

Just for wondering, how much was it that they were going to pay off?

A little over $100,000. And I'm currently putting an additional about $3,500 per month towards it. And that's actually what my second question was going to be in regards to. I have about $25,000 liquid right now on top of my emergency fund. And I wonder, is it worth it to just throw all of that in on the mortgage right now? Or should I save that and maybe wait for better opportunities?

Look, if you're on baby step six, absolutely the case. If you're not, in this case, it sounds like you don't have any other debt. I'm sure you're investing 15 % of your income. Obviously, you already have a home. Are you savings for kids college? That thing. If you know you're checking off all those boxes or the applicable boxes, then yes, I would do that.

Yeah, and if you know that you have to replace a car soon, or you use that money for something else, if there's something you want to redo in the house. I don't know. If there's other expenses you know are coming, you could leave some of that aside just as a buffer savings fund to be able to pull from if you need that extra cash.

Especially with renters.

Yeah, exactly. But I would put a big chunk of that towards the mortgage to get it paid off faster. So thanks, Cameron. Thanks for the call. Jade, I feel like the family dynamic with loaning money. And it's always hard for me in this seat. I know there's families out there that are like.

This.

Can work. They can work. And then there's the disaster families. The disaster families are easy to be like, My mom's saying I have to... You can paint a picture pretty quickly to be like, Yeah, I probably wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that deal. And then there are some families where it's like, The parents are healthy. It's a good situation, all of it. But still, even with that, even with that, it just changes the relationship.

I would think, and I don't think it would even take anything truly negative happening. I really think it's just the difference of, We were used to this payment, and it seems like you've been paying less, and then just wanting to ask the question why.

Even if they don't. Which they have the right to because they're technically the bank in that scenario. That's right.

And even if they never do, even if as the child or the grown child, they never come to you and say, Hey, we were wondering what happened. Just them even wondering it has the ability to affect the way they're viewing you like, Hey, we're all going Black Friday shopping and they see you spending money. They might in their own head be like, Interesting, she spent a thousand dollars here, but she didn't. And you just don't want people thinking of you through that lens at all times. That's right. That's right, yeah. It's just the human quality of it.

And especially the parent to the child relationship, it just, again, sometimes well-intentioned and all of it. But we've seen it so often, so often go sideways. And people even talk with friends and everything. And I'm like, just keep it all separate. It's like, I don't want to-.

I mean, think about how just as people, think about how we are. If we've ever heard a friend or family member say, Oh, I'm saving up for this, or I'm doing this, or I'm doing that. And then after they've said that, we view what they're doing with their money. So if they say, Oh, we're saving up for a down payment on a house, then it makes sense when they say, Oh, we're not going to go out to dinner. You start filtering it through what they said they're going to do. Right. Rights. And so if that changes, you're like, Oh, I thought they said they were saving for a house. You can't help it. I just wouldn't want my own parents doing that, which honestly, borrowing money in general, not even just for a house or a mortgage, but anytime.

For a car, for a person alone, I mean, anything. Yeah. So we always say if you have the money, you can give it as a gift. And again, with the parent-child relationship, there are some situations where it is a gift and the parents can afford it. The child can handle that gift. And it's a beautiful thing of changing and try to see with something, right? That 100 % can work. Yes. But then also on the other side, there's parents that enable children, and it can be dysfunctional to it. So it's never about the money, right? It's never about the money. It's always about the person who's handling it in that specific situation. So always give, never lend. This is The Ramsey Show. If you're buying.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. It is a full shopping week, I feel like, for all of us the last two weeks. And so we actually have The Cyber Monday sale, you guys going all week long. So all this week, we have extended our Cyber Monday sale, which means there's great gifts, meaningful gifts for your friends and families as low as seven dollars. We have every dollar premium. You can get a gift card for that for just $49.99, Financial Peace University is $59.99. Things like the Junior's Adventure Storytime collection, $14.99. The goal planner is $4.4.99. So lots of stuff, lots of things from Jade, myself, Dr. John Deloney, Ken Kahlman, Dave Ramsey, whatever it is about your faith, about your finances, your relationships, your career, you can check that all out at ramsyssolutions. Com/store. Again, our weeklong Cyber Monday sale is all week long, which is a beautiful thing. We love a good sale.

I go to Gift is that goal planner. I get several of them every year and give them out. Yes.

Oh, it's beautiful. They're so, so great. All right, up next we have Marcial from the Woodlands in Texas. Hey, welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my calls. Such an honor being on the phone with you guys.

Absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

Okay. So my wife and I have been listening to The Rancy show for the last six months. So we read the books and we are working on The Baby Steps. But our income is regular. She's starting a career as a real estate agent. I'm a sales employee. I'm an entrepreneur. I have a business. And we have some money saved up. We just have debt in cars. We have two in cars. In one, we owe $15,000, the other one, we owe $13,000. We're getting rid of the $13,000 one, so we're just going to tackle the $15,000 one. My question is, since our income is so regular, is it a smart to set aside instead of $1,000, just $5,000, and then throw the rest at the cars? And also, I have a small $4,000 student loan. So that's the question. Is it a smart to set aside instead of $1,000, $5,000, and then tackle with the rest of the money, the debt? And if we have a good month, then we throw extra on the debt. What do you guys think about that?

Yeah. Okay, so with the regular income, there's two ways that you could think of it. There's two ways I would think of it. Number one, if you're able to create a budget based on your worst month, you can look back in your self-employed job and go, Okay, what's my worst month been over the course of the year? Your wife can look back and go, Okay, what's my worst month been? And you can start to budget from there. And then you know, Okay, everything else is gravy. If you can make that work, then I would just do the normal $1,000 emergency fund as normal. Now, if you're like, No, we are really like this thing is a crazy roller coaster and the months that we don't do well, nothing's happening. What I would do is there is something to be said for having money that you are carrying over from month to month. I wouldn't view it as an emergency fund so much as this is just- Living expenses. Yeah, this is just rollover from a previous month that I keep there almost like a cushion for my budget. I think that's very normal for people who are on a regular income because there is such variance there.

The third part of this, I know I said there's two things, but there's three things, Rachel. The third part of this is if you are going through such low valleys to such high peaks, or if you feel like there's a lot of low valleys, that might be an indicator that there needs to be another source of regular income coming in. So we're waiting at least until you can make this a little bit more steady.

More stable. Yeah.

Got it. Now, that's not the case because in a bad month, we average five to six grand a month. Okay, good. That's the worst month.

Okay, good. That's a.

Really bad month.

And if that's the case, and again, your expenses and everything can handle that, which I'm assuming so, then yes, a thousand dollars is enough, and that's enough. But yeah, we call them peaks and valleys with the budget. And that's how Jade and I both are on the same question. That's why we're structured. And so some months it's like, Oh, yeah, it's been a great month. Some months it's like, Nope, not much activity happening. And there it is. But that there's enough in there to make sure that our bills are covered, because we don't want you to get behind on your mortgage or not have money for food. I mean, yeah, we'reSo that's common sense. We want to be able to have enough there. But if it is, then yes, Marcy, I would throw the rest. I would go down to that $1,000 emergency fund. And then I would, for you, you named off a couple of debts, but I would pay off that the student loan, the 4,000. I'd get that out of the way first. Now, what did you say about the $13,000 car loan? You glossed over that and said, but we're going to pay on the 15,000.

Yeah, that's a car that was... It was a mistake. It was a desperation purchase. The because my wife and I, we filed for bankruptcy a year ago. And then I lost my truck, and I had to buy a car, and I bought a car to Carvana at a 24 % interest rate zero down because I needed a car. I needed to move. I didn't have $2,000 to pay for that car. So we bought that car and we are a little bit upside down in it. So we're just going to sell it and pay the difference because we have that debt. So yeah, that's the.

Plan for that car. Perfect. Well, that's great. Yeah, that sounds amazing. And good for you guys. Coming out of bankruptcy, out of that, and then a year later that you guys are like, hey, we got to clean this stuff up, because that is one part of money that is so crucial. And you talk about this a lot, Jade, in your quick read that money is not a math problem, is that so often we just try to fix the math, and we try to go after the interest rate, we try to go after this. But realizing, which again, Marcy all I feel like the light has come on for him and his wife where he's like, Oh, we're the problem. We're going to have to do some things to change our behavior when it comes to money, because that's really the crucial part.

Of winning. That's right. And I know that we talked earlier about even those nit-picky things, it's really easy to go, Oh, that doesn't matter much. I can do it like that. Or, That's not going to be a big deal. But even with him saying, Hey, should we put the $5,000 aside as our emergency fund? Even that, you really have to go in there and go, Wait a second. If I pile all this money together, there's really no differential between what's an emergency and what's a month-to-month expense. And before you know it, you're going to be plowing through that savings. And so even just making sure that when you say, Okay, I'm going to follow this plan, that you follow it and you go, Okay, this is my $1,000 emergency fund that goes over there. And then if I have to have an extra cushion in my budget, there's a $1,000 or whatever that needs to be in my budget and it is for month to month expenses, not to go to the mall. Really making clarity around those categories in our mind and understanding that so much of it, like you said, is about how we're framing it in our mind.

This money is for this. This money is for that. And I stick to my word, period.

That's right. Yes, so good. Yeah, so money is not a math problem. Jade's quick read. It's at ramseysolutions. Com, but she explains so much of this in-depth, and it's so good. Yeah. All right, up next we got Laurie in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Laurie, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help?

Yeah. So I have $9,000 in student debt. It's my only debt that I have. I have my car paid off and everything.

Good for you.

I was recently unemployed, but I just got a job, so I'm thinking more about how I can pay off that debt. I have money in index funds and ETF. I only have about 5,000 in there. So I'm just wondering if I should start paying down my student debt with that money, or if I should leave some of that in there just as a little cushion because I don't have much more savings than what's in there.

Okay. Yeah, well, good for you. That's great. Yes, I think these are great options to go ahead and cash out. If it's non-retirement, then cash out everything to throw at the debt, which is huge because that'll get you down to $4,000 left. But I do want to make sure you have at least a $1,000 emergency fund, and you can put that in a money market account or high yield savings and just set that aside. So if that's money that has to come out of one of these funds, I would do that. So cash these out, take $1,000, put it aside, and then throw the remaining at the debt. Because do you have any extra savings at all, Laurie?

I am going to get my first paycheck soon, so I think I'll have some leftover in that. So I think maybe I'll be able to build it pretty quickly if I don't spend.

A lot anywhere else. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So I would definitely definitely go ahead and just cash those out. And again, make sure to double check on taxes with any capital gains or any growth that you have from those. But yeah, use that to pay off debt, which is just it's amazing. That's such a gift that you've done that. And then use those same savings goals and muscles that you have after you pay off that debt to save up a fully funded emergency fund and then go on to retirement investing and on forth. And then, Van guard and index funds and all that can come back in the picture later on. But for now, I would use it to get out of debt. Well done, Laurie. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If your healthcare costs are increasing while your choices are decreasing, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Chm is not health insurance. It's a biblically-based health cost-sharing ministry that has helped thousands of families across the country by sharing each other's medical bills. Chm is an affordable alternative to health insurance that aligns with your values and makes it possible for you to save on healthcare without giving up your freedom.

Check out more at chministries. Org/budget. That's chministries. Org/budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and Ramsey personality, Jade Warsha. We're taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple 8-825-5225. Up next, we have Kevin in Los Angeles. Hey, Kevin, welcome to the show.

How do you? Thank you for taking my call. So I'm calling out of desperation, not for myself, but for my parents. They just pretty much had their whole world turned upside down the past week.

What happened?

So my dad, he's an owner operator, he drives a truck and a semi, a CDL. And so last week, he was stepping out of his truck and took a wrong step, fell down the concrete, got hurt real bad, try to tough it out. And instead of going to the hospital, he went home instead. And when he was home, he was dealing with pain. And so he took a painkiller thinking that would help. And then inside the call to insurance company, see if you can get some type of workman's comp or whatever. And they decided to do a year analysis on my dad, which he would end up popping positive for painkillers. And this was last week. I had no idea this was happening. I was back to work. And on Sunday, I believe he was in an accident. It wasn't his fault. Someone else ran in front of him and a semi. And they towed away his truck. And as he's trying to figure out how to get back home to Dallas where my parents live back in Oklahoma, he gets a call from the company he leases on to find out that he is no longer allowed to drive because he fell this drug test and they fired him from the business.

And so in the amount of a whole week, my dad lost his entire career and he's in debt. They have no emergency fund. They're behind on the mortgage. They've been living on credit. And my sisters and I do not know how to help our parents out.

Wow.

Oh.

Kevin. Oh, Kevin.

Oh, I'm so sorry. It's like the worst chain reaction that could happen. Right. Oh, goodness. And then there's no way for him to dispute any of this? I mean, there's... You just have to take it as is. I mean, there's.

No- Yeah. It's the worst because if you were to know my father, my dad's never done drugs in his life. He doesn't even drink alcohol. None of that. The man was in pain, just trying to go back to work. And my sisters and I didn't realize why he was trying to go to work so bad until it came came on clean saying, hey, I've been living off a credit. I have to be out on the road making money because I got all this debt I got to pay off.

I do have one question, and this is maybe neither here nor there, but did he have a prescription that he can say, hey, I was given this?

Yeah, it's an expired prescription. But, yeah, he broke his back a couple of years ago and that's where it came from.

Shoot. And we've all done that. That's crazy. Oh, my.

Gosh, Kevin. Yeah.

Okay.

So you're wanting to know how to best help.

Your parents. Yeah, actually, we're having a family meeting tonight. And my sisters and my family, they're all in Dallas. I live in California. And we're just trying to figure out what do we do? How do we keep our parents afloat through this whole process? And one thing I didn't realize, which my sister told me earlier today, is they're even behind on their mortgage and no one had any idea.

Oh, man.

Okay, where are you guys at financially, Kevin? You and your sisters. And how is everybody?

I mean, we're all okay, right? My wife and I, we do okay. We both work full-time and we have a little bit extra. We talked about possibly supporting them. My sister is the same way. We don't have a ton extra, but we do have a little bit. We want to help our parents at the same time. What do we do?

Yeah, my knee-jerk, I would love to, Jade, I would love to know your thoughts on this. So my knee-jerk reaction is first and foremost, Kevin, you have to take care of your family, your wife, your kids, same with your sister, right? I mean, that's your priority above all else. So I never want someone to get in a financial situation where their own family is suffering because of parents or extended family, right? Right. There's a part of me that would say yes. I think if you guys have the means to at least be able to help the mortgage side of it and let them not fall further behind. And again, it's not putting yourselves in a dangerous situation financially. But if you guys are able to help float that, I would totally be okay with that. But in the long term, though, Kevin, you're not going to be able to fix your parents. Right? There's long term. They're going to have to be the ones that say we did this. Our habits are terrible when it comes to money. We have to handle our money completely differently to get different outcomes, all of that. There's nothing in your power and your sister's power to help save them long term.

I'm thinking about the short term with December 15th coming up for them to be able to keep their house. What are things that you guys could do? And I would be comfortable as a gift, not to loan, but to say, Hey, here's a set amount of money that you and your wife, Kevin, feel comfortable with. If your sister wants to have that same conversation with her family, and I would probably put a set amount of money and just say, This is what we have, and pile it together and say, This will help them for three months catch up to the mortgage, maybe even that. If there's anything in that vein, I would be very comfortable with you guys doing that if you and your wife agree on that. But as far as a long-term play, he's obviously going to have to find a different job, hopefully in the same industry. I guess it's on your record. I don't know how much that thing follows you.

Yeah, there's a rehabilitation process, but still it's a process and it takes time, right?

Yeah. How much time do you know?

It could take anywhere from a month to three months, which is fine. But the issue is they have no emergency fund. It's like, how are they supposed to get through?

Yeah, he's going to have to do something. I mean, he'll have to drive Uber or have something. And your mom probably, your mom is going to have to step up and do something as well. They don't have any kids at home, right? You guys are all grown.

How old are they? We're all grown.

How old are they, your mom.

And dad?

Sixty-two. Okay. Yeah, they can-.

Yeah, they're going to have to both... I mean, whether they're putting together side hustles or whatever it is, they're going to have to have some level of income coming in to eat. And, Kevin, I think, too, it is a hard reality when you become the grown child looking at your parents and thinking, Oh, my gosh, I'm now switching roles, and I'm having to take care of, right? And people find that physically having to take care of parents, financially, emotionally, all of this, right? And so I do think that there's some boundaries there, and you want to do this well. But as far as them, yeah, like you said, they have no savings. They have nothing. So a reality check is going to have to hit them, which I'm sure it has where they're like, Wow, we're going to do things we never thought we have to do in a word. But what do you feel, Jade, about him and his sister helping catch up to the mortgage if they have the margin themselves? What do you think?

Look, I think that ideally that's what you want to do. I think the hardest part in all of this, I think there's two really difficult parts. If you're the spouse, being on board with that and going, Okay, because we're talking about thousands of dollars. Yes, yes. And knowing that this has got to be a gift. I mean, we talked about this last segment. It's got to be a gift. It can't be, Hey, borrow this money from us, and when you get back on your feet, you'll give it back. If you guys agree to do this, it's got to be a gift. You're left, because especially in the situation that your parents are in, they can't get this money back. They don't have it.

And you don't want that hanging over you, Kevin.

And so the spouse is being on board. I see two dynamics that have the ability to be funky, but I think you can navigate this. A, the spouse, B, you've got siblings. And so there might be this feeling of like, Well, we're giving this. What are you guys giving? And just that dynamic of, Is it fair? Who's giving more? I feel like you guys could have done more. I think you guys are really going to have to put on your... And it sounds like you do. It sounds like you're all adults here, but keeping on that truly big boy and big girl hat of, We're coming to the rescue here. And then I think there's another part of this that's got to be really firm, and especially in the siblings' minds of, It's really easy to focus on this and go, What happened to my parents is my dad fell out of the truck and then he took a painkillow and tell that whole story to yourself. But really what the story is over the course of their entire lives, our parents have not handled their money well. And you've honestly got to focus on that being the story.

Otherwise, the other story you feel the guilt of having to- The sympathy, yeah. Oh, I got to care for that. I mean, my dad just fell. And so really being able to reconcile that in your mind is going to be really important going forward because this is not going to be a short.

Term situation. That's right. Yeah, Kevin, hold on the line. I'm going to give you a membership of Financial Peace University and every dollar premium to give to your parents as a gift from us to at least get them some basic knowledge of how to handle money. And they're 62. Change is hard for anyone, but especially those 16, 70 year olds just changing decades of it. But hold on the line, Kelly is going to pick up and we're going to gift that to them. I'm so sorry, Kevin. Thanks for calling. When your business.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Jade and I were talking about Christmas, and I guess you were on a webinar. What was it that happened? And you thought, Oh.

My gosh. Well, it's that time of year, so the media hits and we've done a couple. They've been like, Hey, can you write a couple of articles on this? I'm like, Yes. I keep going back to the same thought. The idea is, it's Christmas time, right? And so many of you listening and we've all been there where it's like, I've got bigger fish to fry this year, whether it's paying off debt or you've got real savings goals that you're trying to hit or whatever it is financially that is very important to you as a priority. Sometimes Christmas can really throw you off of your goals. And specifically, when it comes to getting out of debt, it can really be just that thing that's like, Oh, it's a damper, right? Because it's like you want to participate in that traditional way where you're giving gifts and you're doing all the things. But the reality is if you want to stay on track and you want to your goals and you want to be responsible, you can't always do all of that. And so what does that look like? Does it mean that Christmas is canceled and we're never going to get to...

It's like you can really go into that mopey side of it. But just over the years, and for those of you listening who do know my story, you know when you're paying off debt, it's tough. For those of you who don't know the story, when Sam and I were paying off $400 and $460,000 of debt, you have to embrace, Rachel, a whole new set of values and truths when it comes to the holiday season if you want to get out of it unscathed with your peace intact and with your money and your budget intact. Like I said, I've been writing some articles about this, and I just want to share with you and the folks listening some of the truths that I've embraced, and hey, poke holes in it. If you're like, Jade, that is so scrooge, or that is so unrealistic, hey, be my guest. But I'm just going to tell you what worked for me. The first thing on my list is, and this is just to set you guys free, so if you want to be free, embrace it. You do not have to buy a gift for someone simply because they bought a gift for you.

Oh, yes, I would.

Agree with that. I used to be that person that would buy... I'd go to Target and buy a couple of inexpensive things just to have them on hand.

So when someone gives you a gift, you can give it to them.

Yeah. And I finally was like, in my church, there's a lot of folks that I'm friends with, and there's a lot of people in my circle. And it was just getting to the point that I was like, I am giving 50 gifts, literally. Totally, yes. 50 gifts. And I was like, I'm not doing it anymore.

I would agree with that one. I'm with you on that one. And I think it takes away, it almost can be in this, if you're in that mindset constantly, sure, it probably comes out from a good place originally. But then it just becomes, okay, you give me this, here, this. It's like the switcheroo thing that you weren't even expecting. It wasn't even a gift like you said that you bought for that person because you saw it and you thought, You know what? I'm going to do it. It's just this general idea. So, yes, that's good. And then a lot of.

Times it's like, honestly, it's junky. It's like.

Another.

Candle. Yeah, it goes in the candle drawer. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so then this one, this is one of the things that Sam and I embrace in our family, draw names.

Yes, we do this.

Draw.

Names, please. On both sides, yes.

Because on my side of them, I have three siblings, then two nephews, then my mom and dad, then Sam's mom, his two sisters, they're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, seven kids. There's a lot. Yes. So my thing is like, okay, draw names. Kids, get them gifts. But for the adults, in your family, your nuclear and partially extended family draw names. Yes.

And can I tell you? Everyone wants to do that, too.

They.

Want to. They're like, Oh, no, really? Look, some.

People Christmas is a sport for them, and they're like this - They want to do it. Yeah, they want to buy gifts for everybody. And, it's not that they're mad at you, but in some way, they feel like it's ruining Christmas for them for there not to be a zillion gifts from everybody.

Oh, that's funny. Do you know what I mean? See, when we talked about it all as adult siblings, this was years ago, because we've done this for probably 10 plus years, or someone had said that. And it was separate conversations on both sides, Winston's side and our side. And all of us were like, Thank you. Because for me, honestly, I'm just like, It's the amount of time, everything. And I'm like, Everyone's already stretched then, especially when you have kids and all of it. So we found this great. So we do a dollar amount, and we say, Here's the budget for it- Love it. -that everyone feels good about. And then we stopped doing, on Winsor's side of the family, we stopped telling, Send me what you want. Text me something. We stopped that. So then your creativity has to kick in. So the thoughtfulness is in that because you have to think through like, They haven't asked for this. Yes. I'm not clicking a link that they sent me. I have to figure out something for them. And it's great.

I love that. I'm going to add that to the list because it also pulls back expectations, because it's very different. If someone has said, And by the way, I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're in your mind calculating the cost of that, and you're like, Crap, that's not what I planned on spending. Then you automatically feel an obligation to get them that. Whereas if it's just literally adults being adults, then that doesn't exist, which brings me to my next point. You don't have to buy gifts for adults. They're grown. They have their own money, their own job. If they want a new blender, they can go buy it. They do not need you to go buy them slipper. They can buy their own slipper, Rachel?

And that's the thing. Are you saying from parents to adult kids? What are you saying? Because Sharon Ramsey this year, you all... Sharon Ramsey was like, I don't think I really want to do Chris. You sound like Sharon. You all don't need anything. You all are adults. You don't need anything. And my sweet mother-in-law is like, Here's your budget every year. So we still get guests from Winsor's parents. I don't think we get any from the Ramseys this year. I really don't.

But here's the thing. Are you mad? Are you like, Oh, my gosh. They didn't give me a gift. Well, they're in Egypt right now. And I'm like, Well, have fun.

Across the continent. We'll see you all on the 25th evening. Oh, man. No, we're not mad. We're not mad. It's just funny.

Rachel is like, I'm a.

Little salty. There may have been a gift. The person shall not be named. Texted to my mom, and she texted back, Yeah, I'm not sure we're going to be buying gifts this year, but thank you.

Wow, I.

Love it. That person will not be named.

I am here for that. Look, if you're trying to get out of debt...

Now, especially, yes. Yeah, if you're getting out of.

Debt and there is an adult in your life who is mad that you didn't give them a gift? Yes.

Okay, but what if you're living like no one else? Then - Later you can live and give them no gifts. Then it.

Can be a little questionable.

That's questionable.

That's so good. I love it. All right, again, this is for folks getting out of debt or have extreme goals that they're trying to hit. Here's the other thing that I've embraced. If you don't live by me, in my city to where I can put the gift in your hand, I am not sending out a gift to you. You're off the list. You're off my list. -oh, yes. Because I'm like, we're not even -Who would that be? We don't even live by.

Each other. -just like family, friends? What are you thinking?

Yeah, I'm thinking friends that live far off, your great aunt that you haven't seen, she lives in New York, that thing.

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with.

You on that. You're off the list. You're not seeing them on a day to day. Send them a Christmas card.

Look at Kelly's face. Kelly may disagree with you on that one, Jake.

Kelly, what do you think? Girl, we're getting out of debt, Kelly. She doesn't have a mic that can talk for a good reason. Yeah, don't cuss me out back there. I can read your lips. I don't.

Know if I have ever, as an extreme statement, but genuinely, I don't think I've ever gotten a package delivered to my door and I open it and there's a Christmas gift in there. I don't think that's ever happened. Maybe because we all have family in town.

Because we're closer.

I don't... Has that happened to you? Is that what you're thinking? Like, you go wrap a gift and then you FedEx.

It to someone? Well, all of my siblings, except now that I've moved, but most of my siblings live out of state. And it's like, I'm like, You all don't have to send me a gift from California here.

Yes, yes.

I don't know. I'm like, If you're in debt, I'm grown. Like I said, I can buy my own bed, bath, and beyond. You know what I'm saying? Okay, that's the next one.

Babies do.

Not need gifts. Babies don't need gifts. Let me tell you what I did.

Actually, they have no clue. That is true.

You can literally take a gift, Rachel, and rewrap it. They don't know? They think, Oh, this is great. I can just pull the paper off. They play with the.

Paper, Rachel. What age is baby to you? Three and up?

Are they three and younger? I think two. Two. I think two is the cutoff for being able to do that.

I will say when you have one baby and they're 18 months old, they have no clue.

They don't know.

That is fair. They don't know.

That is fair. That's fair. My daughter is three and a half. I could not do that with her. They know.

She would die. Yeah, we're out of the.

Wood there. Yeah, I think getting up to two is where you'd have to cut that off. All right, so babies don't need gifts. What I would do, I would focus on the children in your life that are ages three to 18. That's the guilt trip you don't want to go on. You need to get those folks gifts. That's how we end it. That's where you want to be generous. It's the truth.

Man, Jade. I would.

Have loved to look at a list of all the people in Jade's life that could have gotten a gift and.

Then just scratch.

Them off one by one to five people. Make it feel good. It's so great. Oh, thank you, Jade, for going through this hour. Thanks to everyone in the booth for making this happen. Thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and Ramsey personality, Jade Warsaw. And we are here to answer your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-eight, 825-5225. Up next we have, or up first I should say, we have Kristen in Houston, Texas. Hey, Kristen, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you very much for taking the call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, my husband and I are in a financial transition. So we've been paying off our credit card debt for the last two years. We've been chasing our cow with it. We're due to pay off our credit card debt by the end of December, maybe the beginning of January.

Okay, coming up. That's great.

Yeah. Thank you. It's been crazy. Yeah. Okay, so our next phase that we want to do is work on building our savings for down payment and closing cost to purchase real estate within the next year or two. This year, we made two big decisions. Well, actually, we made two big purchases and one big decision. We're renters right now. Our rent was going up and my husband and I decided, okay, let's go ahead and move into an RV. Well, I already had one that was paid off. I traded that in and we've purchased one. And so that's what we're doing right now is we have a brand new RV and we pay space rent. So that's our housing. Then my truck, which was his truck is paid off, my truck is paid off, but my truck ended up needing $15,000 of maintenance repairs in the last year and a half. Just to turn right around, have another $1500 repair, and we said, Forget that. We need to upgrade truck for the RV anyway. We went ahead and made a purchase for a truck to pull the RV.

How much did you spend?

We owe $56,623 on it right now.

Fifty-six thousand? Hold on. Did you say you bought a truck for $56,000?

Yes. It's a 2021 F-250 diesel for $58,000.

I'm shook.

It was a deal. It was a great deal. But our monthly note is nuts. We've already done that with our.

Budget and all. And, Kristen, I'm going to just ask the assumption it's on payments.

Yeah. The payment is $9.46 and change. And we had to... Yeah, it's nuts.

Wait, no, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I got to call you out slightly. It's the Christmas season, so I'm going to be a little bit lighthearted. First, you said it was a great deal. Then you just now turn around and said it's nuts. And just for the record, it is nuts. It is. You all just are about to pay off all this credit card debt. You had two paid-for trucks. I'm just spelling this out.

For you. Okay, well, here's the thing is we thought about this. We went through the budget. We did the budget on the net income, not gross, and how we could afford all of that. We have it all in the budget and everything together with the truck, the RV, and the space rent, we're at about $2,100, okay? But his truck is a 2012. My truck used to be was a 2011, and high mileage on both of them, we cannot pull the RV with either one of.

His or mine. The difference is, and the hard part that you're going to realize is everything that you have that money tied up in is going down in value. And I understand that what you really want is real estate, but I don't think you guys went about the right way to get there.

Probably not. But given our situation at the time, that's where we were at.

Okay, so how much can you... Let's just, real quick, Kristen, how much could you sell the truck for today?

The '21 or.

The 2011?

The $56,000. The '21, it would have to be.

'56, six. Okay, so right around there. How much could you sell the RV for?

Right now, it's sitting at 43. So pay off would probably be around $44, 45.

Okay, so you do realize your truck costs more than where you guys live?

Right. Okay.

So there's just parts of this formula, Kristen. I need you to see is not the wisest choice. And I need you to say, wow, we should not have because renting is not throwing your money away. What you guys did is you chose to take on more debt by getting an RV, and then you chose to have to go deeper into debt to be able to move the RV. So you just dug yourself into a deeper hole thinking it was the wisest, smartest thing to do at that point. But mathematically, financially, it just wasn't. It wasn't. And so for you guys, you guys have stepped backwards a lot in this process. So I almost would say, I want everything to be wiped clean. You guys had such a great track record with the credit card, like you were paying down debt.

Paying down debt. No, no, no. Let me tell you right now that when we were renting, he was making lower income at the time, and we were actually in more debt.

Over our- Then you could have gone to a cheaper rent, Kristen.

You could have.

No, we couldn't have.

We were.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Wait.

A second. Wait a second. Let me draw it back. We can't help you if you don't want help. Here's what I want to make clear. Rachel and I are going to look at this and we're going to go, Hey, this is not the smartest choice. We want you to be free. Why? And we want you to be out of debt. Now here's the difference, because I agree with you in the way that renting, it doesn't feel good. It feels like we're throwing money down a black hole. No, I.

Could care less about renting. Nothing that doesn't bother me. I'm a real estate broker. I understand.

Okay, but what you're not understanding... What you're not understanding here is it would have been better for you to rent because rent is not debt. And you're just looking at the payment per month, but you're not looking at the grand scheme of it, okay? Payment per month doesn't matter. It matters... Does that make sense? You're looking like, oh, $2,100, it's less. But I'm like, yeah, but you're forgetting about the $56,000, the 43,000, and then the land.

Actually, $2,100 is more than.

What we were paying. How about this, Kristen, for you calling in, what was the main question?

My main question with you is not changing what we're doing. I understand your philosophy and everything like that, and I understand what we've done, and there's reasons why we did it. And I understand. I totally agree with you, normal circumstances.

Sure.

Where we're at right now, we'll be freeing up about $3,000 worth of money every month once we pay off these credit cards, which is about to be done at the end of the month in the beginning of next month, maybe. We have $1,000 in savings every month, and we have one month's reserves for bills, all of them. How would you best advise to put that $3,000 to.

Our debt? Yeah. How much are you guys making a year, Kristen?

In a year, his gross for this year is going to end up being, year to date, it's 121.

121. Okay.

So you probablybe about 1:30 by the end of.

The month. And do you add anything to that as well?

No, not right now. Okay. I will, but.

Not now. I'm only taking broke as to what it's variable. So what I would do, Kristen, if you guys choose, we just say not to have things in motors and wheels that is more than half of your annual income. So if it were me, Kristen, I would be selling these two things, the truck and the RV, like I said earlier. I'd go rent somewhere, free up this money, save up a good down payment for you guys to get a primary home for you and your husband after 3-6 months of expenses. I'd put that in a money market account. If you don't want to do that, then the next move is you have to start paying off this RV, which is $43,000, and then you need to pay off the truck before you ever think about real estate. This is The Ramsey Show.

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So, Jade, I wanted just to circle back. I thought it felt like a phrase we all said during COVID. I'll circle back to that last caller, Kristen. I think what can be so hard as we can ourselves talk ourselves into something and into situations and be so clouded by maybe our own judgment, our own ways of thinking that we keep digging ourselves deeper into a hole. And you're thinking you're on the outside yelling down, No, come out this way. Come out this way. And I feel like that's what we're trying to do with her, is just to show and understand. And it's just the numbers. There's parts of this that you just go back to just facts and $900 a month car payment and everything. Yeah.

I mean, look, I am the first one to say when I hear that talk, there's not much we can do because you've already painted yourself into this corner of my situation is the exception. And, all of us can find somewhere where we can say that. But you've honestly got to commit to going, Okay, I've got to just not make these excuses because all of us can say, Well, the way my income is set up, or Well, because we were paying this in rent, or Well, because all of us can do that. Whenever you do that, you automatically exclude yourself from the solution. You automatically ostracize yourself from why a plan can't work for you. You're the exception. And if you want to take on that identity, then that's the identity you have. And nothing we say is going to be able to help you. I always hate when that happens because I'm a firm believer, Rachel, of the idea that whatever you look for, you find it. So if you're always looking for the reasons that you can't do it, then you never will. But the moment you just say, Okay, I'm going to open up my heart.

I'm going to open up.

My mind a little bit. Submit to the process and just say, I'm going to try this plan. I'm going to try something different.

Yeah, because look, and I don't say this to be anything but real. When I first heard your dad talk, he's brass. He's strong. He comes across. I remember thinking he's got more money than I do. He's figured it out. He's not living paycheck to paycheck. He's not in debt. I am. So I'm just just leaving it at that. Who's winning at that? I'm just leaving it at that because at the end of the day, that's where you have... That's the way you have to see it as, Okay, I'm still trying to figure this out. I haven't figured it out yet. Right. Someone who has gotten a handle on it is telling me, Hey, here's what I did. And if you're not going to take advice from a person who's done it, then you're always going to be trying to fight your way out of a paper bag. And like you said, the light, somebody's shining the light going, It's this way. It's this way.

It's your choice. Yes, absolutely. So good. All right, let's go to Heather. They're in Illinois. Hey, Heather, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, how are you?

Doing great. How can we help?

Hey, I'm actually really excited I got on.

I'm so glad you're here.

So my husband and I are in baby step number two, trying to get rid of our debt, we have about $62,000 in consumer debt, and we bring in $6,200 a month after taxes and insurance and all that stuff. So we use every dollar budget, the premium to map out our paychecks. I was raised in church, so I was always taught that you give 10 % of your take home pay back to church, like to the Lord, because it's his anyway. He's just giving it to us to manage. So in doing that, I typically budget about $600 a month in tithing. And after our expenses are paid for the month, we have about $150 extra to put towards our debt repayment. And we're pretty on fire to try to get rid of this debt. So my husband got a work truck that we don't have to pay for anything of it. He gets to drive it wherever he wants. That's awesome. So we actually sold my nice car and I drive his old 2005.

Four-door truck. Nice.

Because it's paid for. Yeah. So we are just trying to get after this. And my question is, do I can continue to give the 10 % to Church at this moment or do I cut it down to five % or just pause it to take the extra $600 to get rid of put towards our debt each month? I'm just at an impasse. I feel guilty doing that, but I don't know what else to do.

Yeah.

I think it's a fair question for sure. And what's funny, Heather, is I get hate on The Rachel Cruz show for certain things. And recently it's been this, it's been giving. Really? People have not been happy with with the fact that I am pretty set in my ways when it comes to the giving part. So, Heather, what I would say... Okay, so there's two ways I look at giving. One is from more of a spiritual aspect, if you're someone of faith. And then people that are not, there's still a factor here. So for me, giving, in general, regardless of where you stand spiritually, it is a practice of character. For me, there is something about the continuation of giving and living with an open hand is a practice that I want ingrained in me so deeply, regardless of where I am financially. Because I am a big believer that as that becomes a habit, and then you guys start winning, people think, Well, if I just had more money, I would give, and it would be easier. And the truth is, Heather, that's not necessarily the case. Sometimes when you get more money, it's almost harder.

Yeah, it's easier not to give the opposite way, which sounds so backwards. But it's just crazy how our minds work. And I always want money to be in a healthy position in my life. And so to have it far out with an open hand, that's always my stance. And then if you are a person of faith, which you said you are, I never want any part of my faith walk to be legalistic. Legalistic stuff, it grosses me. I hate it. I don't like it when people are like, You have to do this and this and this. You have to read the Bible this often. Anything like that rules, I'm like, Nope, that's not my thing.

You got the opposite direction.

Yeah, I'm not a legalistic person. So I don't want your giving from the spiritual lens to be out of legalism because that defeats, I think, the whole purpose of it. I think there's so much in scripture about being a cheerful giver and the why and the participation that we get to participate in something bigger than what God is doing. And I'm not a prosperity person either. I do not think that if you give, you will be given back monetarily always. I think sometimes God blesses us, but I don't think it's an A, B, equal C thing there. But what I do see, though, Heather, and I could say this with confidence, people that give, and I would say even people with faith, if you put that layer on top of it, there is a sense of joy. There's a sense of peace. There's something in there because it is bigger than just the paycheck that's hitting your account. The gifts that you're giving, the consistency of giving and giving back to the local church, which is the tithe, there is something there that I am choosing to participate in what God is already doing. And so for me, it's, yes, the obedience factor, but there's also the the joy, the contentment, learning to live with what you have, that principle is forced in there, especially on a tight budget like you guys are.

There's just so many of these character benefits that come out of giving that I can't and good conscious just say, don't do it. Now, I understand it is tight, and some people choose, Heather, and I think you're a big girl, and you get to get off this phone call, and you guys get to decide. Some people choose to lower it. They do certain percentages. But I do stick to that 10 % because I think the challenge of it is healthy. And I think the habits that it causes in us, I just see so many positives. And yes, it may take longer to get out of debt mathematically, but I think it forces something in all of us that I think we just need as humanity.

Look, I'm with Rachel, and I can speak to you, Heather, too, because I... Getting out of debt.

That- You guys, yeah, did the long.

Journey of it. It is the biggest temptation. And I'm going to speak to it through that lens since you said you're a cross-follower, I'm a Christ-follower, so we'll speak to it through that lens. But it is a temptation. That's the first thing you go, Well, nothing's going to happen. It's not like they're going to cut my lights off if I stop paying my tithes. But I do think for us, for Sam and I, it was an opportunity to really test God the way he says to. He's like, test me in this and see if I'm not going to throw open the floodgates and pour out a blessing that you won't have room enough to receive. Like Rachel said, you don't know that it's going to be money, but it will be a blessing, even if it's just the intentionality in your heart to keep going. He's going to hold up his end of this thing. And when you build his kingdom, he builds into you. And it's not like it's a quid pro quo, but it's something you get to participate in. And when you do that, the scripture does say that he does overflow that blessing.

We're saying stick with it, Heather. Stick with it. All the way around. Such a great question, though. Thanks for the call. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. When was the last time you thought about your dryer vents? Clogged dryer vents are a cause of thousands of house fires every year. So let the experts at Dryervent Wizard clean yours. Visit neighborly. Com/ramsie to schedule service today.

Wow. Today's question comes from Brooke in Kentucky. She says, My husband listens to you every day, so it would be amazing if you would set one of us straight. Here we go. We got into debt when we were in our early 20s. We found the baby steps and haven't looked back. Our home is almost paid off with no other debt. Kids have enough money in their college funds, and we put 15 % of our pay into retirement. I've always been a stay at home mom, home school the kids, and work full-time from home. Way to go. Here's the problem. When we go on vacation, I want to stay in a nice hotel and a fancy room. I work very hard and am not happy unless this happens. My husband doesn't get it at all. He says, We just sleep there. Why spend the extra money? Financially, the extra cost is in the budget. I don't spend any money on myself. It's the one thing I want to splurge on. I want my husband to recognize my hard work and show his appreciation by getting the nice room. Who's right? If it's me, what can I say to make him really understand?

Oh, my gosh.

Number one, Brooke, you're right.

Yes, you are right. Yeah.

Oh, man, you're right.

Always, always splurge. Here's the deal with a vacation. If you go back to a place you hate, it just takes away from the vacation. Maybe I'm girlmating this. But when you go to a place that you love, I would cut on food before I'd cut on hotel, for me personally. Yeah. A nice hotel or nicer hotel all day. All day.

Rachel, I'm.

Just- Listen, Jay and I have stayed in some really bad hotels in our days.

Don't do it. I'm not risking finding a hair in my bed. I am not risking the way the sink looks when it's old and crusty. I just- Yep. It's not worth it. It's not a vacation. And especially if you have the money.

Yeah. Okay, so, bro, here's the thing. I want my husband to recognize my hard work and show his appreciation by getting all of this. This is you all's money together. Say that. So him deciding all of it, I'm like, no, you get an exact say in it. And sure, I want him to appreciate you and your hard work, regardless of vacations and hotel rooms.

That's really it.

That was the weird... That was the only weird strand.

I don't like that. It's like he gets to decide this and all of it.

I don't like that. That was the only weird part about this whole thing is I don't know that I view the vacation... When Sam and I go on vacation, I'm not viewing it as, This is your chance to appreciate me.

Right.

That's right. I'm thinking of like, Okay, this is our family's chance to away. Yes. And in my opinion, the whole point of staying in a hotel is to be somewhere a little more luxurious than where you are. Right. Right. Right. And don't get me wrong, everybody's budget is different.

But.

Once she said it's in the budget, I'm like, give me the green light. It's the green light.

All day. I know. Brooke, we're on your team. And I think your husband appreciating you, are you wanting to feel more appreciated? Whatever that looks like is a conversation outside of the vacation conversation.

And you could try and find a way to relate to him. Whatever he's into that he would be willing to spend money on, try to find a way to parallel it. Like, if he's into, I don't know, golf, just say, Hey, you wouldn't want me to go buy you aWhat is a nine-iron? I don't know. Try to find a way to relate it. If you're like, You don't want me to buy you a nine-iron from Walmart, so don't try to buy me and just relate it to something he understands and he sees the value in.

Maybe that'll help. That's good. That's real good. Oh, man. Yeah, so then I know something I know the value of Jade. What? Our friend, George Camel's new book.

Georgey.

Boy. He's got a book right now you guys on presale called Breaking Free From Broke. So make sure to check it out. He exposes some of the most common money, myths, and excuses out there, like investing traps and mortgage myths and credit card schemes, all of that. So make sure to ramseysolutions. Com/store and preorder that book. It comes out in January, and you get close to $100 of free items if you pre-order today. So make sure to check that out. And also, Jade's quick read that is in the store as well. Money is not a math problem. That's in there, too. So check that out at ramseysolutions. Com/store. All right, up next we have Delaney in Washington, DC. Hi, Delaney. Welcome to the show.

Hi, guys. Thanks so much.

For taking my call. You're so welcome. How can we help?

So my husband and I are going through a lot of transitions in life. And we have recently made some decisions that I'm not feeling so sure about anymore, so I thought I'd call in. Okay. So for some background, he's 30, I'm 23. We got married last year, and we now have a two-month-old baby girl. We live outside of DC, actually Northern Virginia. And I was on maternity leave for a couple of months and then have now dropped my hours to part time. And with our annual household income, we just can't afford rent anymore. We're we currently are. Our lease is up at the beginning of January, and they were going to increase our rent by quite a bit. So we were figuring out where we want to be. My husband is in defense contracting. And in a couple of weeks, it's going to be going completely remote. So we have a lot of leeway in terms of where we want to be with him, probably still having to make occasional trips into his office in Maryland, but not very frequent. I'm from Vermont. I'm and have lived there up until last year when we got moved to Northern Virginia for my husband's work.

My husband is from Houston. And so we found a place a little bit farther out because we do really like the area we're currently living in to get a little bit more house to rent for cheaper. But now we're just crunching the numbers with what my take home pay is since I'm part time and it's just stressing me out. It's still too much, I think. And so we're just trying to figure out where we want to move. And I don't feel like we have a lot of time to figure it out because our move is currently scheduled for next weekend. Oh, wow.

Wait, so where are you going?

So wewe are going to be in still Northern Virginia, but out in Leesburg. It's about an hour and a half away from here.

Okay.

And that plan is not feeling right still, right? Because of the rent?

Yeah. And another big factor, I think, with finances, and we're currently in baby steps too, but finances and also just it's definitely been a difficult transition, me being a stay at home mom and now working part time and not having any family close by. We have a few friends that we've made in the last year and a half we've lived here, but it's been really challenging not having family. And so I think that's another thing on my heart.

For sure.

Go ahead.

Is it for his? Because he's going to be able to work mostly remote. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Yeah. Does he want to move back?

So, he isn't really... We haven't found places in Vermont. The renting market is horrible to be close to my parents. They've offered to let us move in, but I would love to, but my husband is definitely not on board with that. So he is okay with making it work. It's a new place out in Leesburg, and he's also in school full-time right now. So once he's graduating with his degree in a year and a half, two years, jobs will open up quite a bit, and then hopefully we'll be able to increase his salary quite a bit. So we're still... His budget is going to be tight if we move there. And then Houston is the other option. It's a lot cheaper, no income tax, and we'd have his family close by. I've visited Houston many times since we started dating, and just every time I'm there, I just can't wait to leave.

Yeah, it's an acquired taste.

For sure. It's really hard for me to.

Okay, so, Delaney, we're up against the clock, so I had to cut you off. I had to cut you off. So what I would say is that on the financial aspect, I think it's going to be really imperative that you guys find something that's at least 25 % of your take home pay. And I think that's going to relieve a lot of that feeling of, oh, my gosh, how much do I have to work? That financial stress. But also, Delaney, I'm like, you and your husband, you guys have figure out what do we value? What do we want out of our life in the next season? Do we want to be close to family? I mean, how much of this is you guys having to transition into a different life, right? When you're married with a baby, it's a grown up world now.

And if you want to stay home full-time, part time, you've got to set yourself in a situation where you can actually do that. There's going to be some form of sacrifice, whether it's where you live, how much you work. If he's in school now or saves for later, there is going to be a sacrifice that has to be made. You guys have to decide which one it is. Our Cyber Monday deals are ending this week, which means it's your last chance to get meaningful gifts for as low as seven bucks.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and taking your calls. Just a friendly reminder, you guys, as everyone's doing their Christmas shopping, make sure to go to ramsysolutions. Com/store because we have our Cyber Monday sale all week long this week, and it's everything from every dollar premium for $49.99. You can get a gift card and even give that as a gift. Audio books as low as $7, Junior's Adventure Storytime collection for $14.99. Books from myself and Dr. John Deloney and Ken Coleman and Dave Ramsey, books in there that are as low as $10 sales some $20. So make sure to check that out at ramseysolutions. Com/store as you are doing your Christmas shopping. All right, up next, we have Melissa in Minneapolis. Hey, Melissa, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you guys so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So my husband is about to file bankruptcy. And to the best of my knowledge, my name, well, I don't have to. This is related to a business line of credit that when he took it out with a former business partner, he signed a personal guarantee. I don't know that he was super aware of the implications to that at the time. That happened, I think, back in 2018. And then the business shut down with COVID with insurmountable line of credit that at the point just was not able to pay back. We've been working since 2020 with a lawyer to reach a settlement and try to do the best that we can to pay some of this back, at least the bank, and they've denied us every time. How much is it? To a point now, it's $800,000.

Oh, Melissa, I'm so sorry.

Half would be his, half would be the partner, but they're not looking at it individually at this point. And so at this point.

They cut it.

To things.

Do you feel confident that working with the lawyer, you will be able to get them to cut it in half, basically?

He's not. All the conversations with the lawyer, we had a call yesterday, and I'm like, Is there any other option? And he's like, do you have $800,000? I'm like, Nope, we.

Certainly don't. What's the business partner doing? Or the ex-business partner, I guess.

We don't really have a relationship any longer, so I don't know. And I don't know that they would have it either, to be honest. I'm not sure. We really have no idea.

So are they on the line for this or just your husband?

No, they are, too. They've also been working with a lawyer. We just don't have any personal relationship.

Outside of that. Okay. But the expectation, though, is that he has to come up. And I see that they're seeing it as a whole 800,000. But if there's another person whose name is on the loan, too, that doesn't factor into it.

So they either both are filing bankruptcy or they both have to come up with half.

So the partner is going to be filing bankruptcy as well.

Correct.

Yes, the rest of our knowledge does, yeah. So you do know that?

Okay. And just to clarify, is that what the court is saying that they both have to take the same course of action? Or if the partner files bankruptcy, does you and your husband still have the ability to just pay off the 400,000 if you choose to, like on your own time?

No, it has to be. If one file is bankruptcy, then it would be the entire. So then that's where it would be 800. I'm like, if we take the whole thing, will they have a little more pity on us? We've asked to settle. We've offered different lump sums. We've offered different payment plans over six years. Can we pay 200,000 of this over the course of five, six years? In lack of a better term, they've actually, this has been like I said since 2020, the attorneys are quite young for the bank and they keep changing. So we've been ghosted for like 9, 10 months at a time where we're like, Oh, this might actually just... There's a statute, I guess, that we were like, Well, we might actually hit that and this might just disappear. What's the statute? They keep dropping the ball.

It's got to be at least a decade.

It was six years from what we had heard. We were about halfway through, but then they did do it. They filed last December 31st. They filed something. I'm not exactly sure the terminology, but essentially they filed that, which gave us one year. But then come this December 31st, had they not responded, which they hadn't until last week, it would have been dismissed. But then they came back next week and they were like, All right, this is due to December eighth.

Is the balance growing or is it frozen?

There's interest growing on it, but they're not really pursuing that for some reason. They're more just going after the lump sum of when the business shut down, it looks like. I mean, because the total on the last day when I got was over 900,000. But they're asking for 817.

So what chapter are they going to put you guys in? Do you know?

Well, when I've read about it, I'm thinking seven, just because of the ability to pay this back and everything else that goes along with 13. It seems like seven is our option. The stick to that is we were just about to pay off our cars. We don't have other debt. I think this feels wrong, but yet we also just.

Have that. Signed it. Yeah, and that's a little bit of that hard reality of... And Dave talks about this a lot with his story of bankruptcy. There's a truth that it feels like the system, it's like, man, make it half. You know what I mean? The system part of it is frustrating.

Right.

But then at the end of the day, this is what happens when you sign your name to something and it's heartbreaking and terrible as it is, it is what happens. How is he doing, your husband?

Hes actually... I mean, his attitude toward it is much better than mine. I'm like, This is pain and anguish. This is a devastation. He's like, Yeah, this really thinks. He's like, But we have to just move on. If this is going to happen, it's going to be wiped out. He's like, And we just move on. He's like, We're almost on cash anyways. That was our goal. That's where we want to go. So we're almost there. And then the attorney said that basically once we file, it stops the bank from being able to do anything to us about.

The $800. Right, Garnished wages.

The next day you can just move on. We just move on? I'm like, okay, but I guess the thing that we're not super clear about that we're being told by the attorney to do one thing and that I don't agree with is our cars. So we have some loans on our cars, but the way our income works is my husband makes large chunks of money at a time. So we'd be able to pay off. We have about $11,000 on one of his cars that we were just about to pay off last month. When this came to light that it's like, no, don't pay off your cars because we can only keep 5,200 of equity that's protected in vehicles, and then they can take the rest. If your car is.

Paid off.

Don't do that. Okay, we're holding. But I'm like, We're really close to paying that stuff off. And now we were told to turn the cars in and lease them and lease a different car instead because then we don't technically own it. But then I'm thinking in three years, then this car that I'm assuming will be trashed and the lease is up and we'll have sunk a bunch of money in that we couldn't save. And then what? I'm like, I.

Don't know. What about your home? Is it protected under the... Do you have the homestead protection to where they.

Can't- Our state protects our equity up to $450,000. Okay. I know that with what we owe on our mortgage on our house's worth, that's been pretty clear that our house is.

Okay, that was my number one question.

Yeah, so that's all safe. There's going to be something he said with this that typically reaffirmation of the loans basically after it's filed because there is going to be something that happens with the house, even though it's like we've never missed the payment or not behind at all. It's just unfortunately that's...

But it's assets. Do a personal guarantee. It's your life there.

Yeah.

That is. And that is how people lose their houses and everything. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, my name is not on this. And I guess there are marital protections, which help us as well because my name, I was not part of the business, any of it. There's a little bit of that. But yeah, the house is safe. The cars sound like they're safe, but there's a little discrepancy. And I'm like, well, you might have to buy your car back for $5,000.

Listen, it sounds like you're about to walk through a really difficult season. And this is a season where you guys are going to have to hold on to each other.

Absolutely. I was going to say, I mean, it won't take you out, right? People have recovered and have changed their family legacy because of this event like this. And that's what we want to see you guys story go through, Melissa. But it is gut-reaching to the identity and the core of who you guys are. And so stay with it. Thank you so much for calling. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and Ramsey personality, Jade Warslaw. And we are taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-8-825-5225, answering your questions on life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So first up, we have Calvin in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Calvin, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing? We are doing great. How can we help?

I just wanted a unbiased opinion on this. I'm just maybe step three right as I was transitioning jobs, I had left a previous company due to some disagreements of the way things should be done and vendor cutting management and so forth. The company I came to had made some promises and benefits. They matched my pay. But when I got here, they didn't hold up their end on a lot of things. They're doing some shady stuff now following culture regulations. And we're really scurrying over the residents by not taking care of the units that we're turning. Currently, I have a potential job offer with a pretty reputable company who's offering better benefits, a retirement fund, a better schedule, things like that.

Okay. How old are you?

I'm 22.

Okay. And the first job you left, what was the disagreement over your last job.

I had been promoted after working there from a service tech to manager after a year and a half. Whenever I got the management position, I was pulled aside and told that I'm the youngest in the company, I'm inexperienced, and they're going to be taking charge of my property. And that was something they hadn't done to any other manager before. Whenever I tried to talk to HR and things like that, try to come to some solution, it got tinned on to me. And eventually my schedule started getting changed. They started threatening my job. And so I ended up putting in my two weeks.

Okay.

Can I ask a clarifying question? When they pulled you aside to have these conversations, was the reasoning simply because you were the youngest in the company and some people didn't like that? Or was the reasoning you're the youngest in the company, therefore, we're finding performance issues? Was there any performance issue on it? Or it was just like, We don't like that you're doing well at a young age. Does that make sense? Am I missing something?

No, that makes sense. And that's one of the things that I was struggling with understanding and had tried to get clarification because I had never been written up. I had been talked to probably one or two times, just flip up previously. But other than that, I had good reviews from my residents. Everyone else was saying I was doing a good job. Everything was kept up.

Yeah. And Calvin, what's your line of work?

Property maintenance.

Property maintenance. Okay. Yeah. Because I think the thing about careers and stuff, and if I was talking to 22-year-old Rachel, I would tell her this, there's a lot of businesses out there. There's a lot of crappy bosses. There's a lot of stuff that you run into, and you're just thinking, Oh, wow, these people don't keep their word. They're doing some shady things. That is a reality, Calvin. That is a reality. There's also a reality, too. And again, I would tell 22-year-old Rachel this that, Rachel, you don't know as much as you think you might, that there could be problems within different circumstances that are Rachel problems. Rachel may think it's everyone else's problem, but it's really Rachel problem. And Calvin, I'm not saying you're one or the other, but usually that's what we find, especially if when you say there was a job you just left because of questionable leadership, which could be very legitimate. And then you come to a new job and find out again, just like point A, there's crappy people and crappy businesses, and you're thinking, Oh, Jeez, I picked the wrong one. I need somewhere that's reputable and great, and you're going to thrive, and it's going to be awesome.

I am going to give you the benefit of that doubt that that is your situation. But I would say also, Calvin, just to have the humility always, and I still at my age in this, too, that when issues do arise, there are times that it's us that were the issue, not always everyone else. So just always keeping that in the back of your head, Calvin. But if you really are working for a company that did not hold up their end of the bargain and did not do things they said they're going to do, and then even the way they run things, you just don't morally feel good about. That is a valid reason to switch. So if you have another opportunity, even if the opportunity didn't even have all these great benefits that you laid out, that would still just be a reason to say, I don't feel comfortable working, because if I can't trust them to not comply with certain regulations, I can't trust them with me as an employee and how they're going to treat me.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

And.

Then if for some reason this one doesn't work out, then you do have to do what Rachel said and be like, Okay, maybe what's my job process selection looking like? Am I going on the craigslist and looking at stuff that's just the wrong option? But I'm with Rachel 100 %. I do think that I think you're young going in. As much as you can ask really clear questions going in and really understand what the expectation is for your benefit, anytime it's like, Okay, when I get here, what is your expectation? What does, when you say, This is what we expect you to do, what do you mean by that? Get as much clarity as you can so you know that you're hitting your mark, right? And I think that's the best thing that you can do in this next situation.

Absolutely. Up next, we have Kevin in Huntington, West Virginia. Hey, Kevin. Welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello. How can we help?

Okay, I'm not very familiar with you all's stuff. I've just started watching some of your highlights and stuff on YouTube recently, but enough to get an idea, a basic idea of the death, snowball stuff. And I've gotten myself into a little bit of a bond. I'm not drowning yet, but I see that if I keep going the way I'm going, I've just been jumping from crisis to crisis and juggling everything and making it work for a while. I see that if I stay on that path that I'm going to be drowning.

Before too long. Okay. So, Kevin, we're up against the clock a little bit, so I want to make sure we get to your question and situation. So how much debt do you have?

I have $63,000 total. Forty-seven of it is between cars. 2,900 of it is credit consumer debt. I have 9,000 student loans and 3,800 in collections.

Some.

Of some of the consumer debt is like rental center stuff, like weekly payments. And my question is, those aren't necessarily the smallest.

You know what, Kevin? I'm going to keep you on hold for a second. We're heading into a break, a hard clock. So if you'll hold on the line, I'm putting you on hold, we're going to come back to you after the break so that we can really walk through these numbers, especially as a new caller. I want to make sure, Jade and I, get a full picture of your situation and help you best because I think this could be a turning point for you, Kevin. I'm excited. I do too. So stay on the line. We'll be right back with you.

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Learn more at ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. We held over a call from the last segment, and we're going to talk to Kevin in hunting West Virginia. He's a newer listener to the show and has $63,000 in debt, everything from cars, credit cards, student loans, and trying to figure out this feeling like he's on the cusp of possibly living crisis to crisis, like he's right at that edge and possibly wanting to do some things to change that. So, Kevin, thanks for holding on the line. Yep. Okay. So as we were talking, you were saying some of your consumer debts, I think of the 2,900, that was credit cards, is also you're saying, was it furniture from Renner Center?

Yeah, stuff like that, like a bed. I had to buy tires for my truck, and I financed it weekly pay stuff.

How much of it is that?

About $3,000.

Okay, and what is that amount to monthly?

Well, it's weekly pay. Okay, weekly. Each one of those comes out weekly. The cheapest one is $21 a week. The other one is $30 a week. The other one is $74 a week.

What happens when you give back the Renner Center stuff? What happens if you're like, I don't want to rent it anymore? What?

Nothing. They just get it back.

So the payment's the payment. You can't say, I don't want to rent it and get out of it. No, I can.

Take it back, and I just don't have that stuff anymore.

And.

Don't have the payment? The tires, I couldn't. I don't have the payment anymore.

Okay, I would go through and go, What can I get back? Obviously, you need tires on your car, but is there a way that we can save up some quick cash and get you the tires you need? Because I want you to get out of that as quickly as possible, because the interest on that, I'm sure, is not great.

No, it's not. And that was my question because I've recently got a side hustle. I got a job basically to do nothing. I'm on call for a wrecker service where if I get a call, I have to go out and work, but it's overnight and I usually don't get called, and it's $300 a week. And I can get out from under, like the one is $206, so I could pay it off the check and I'm out from under that one and that frees up 21.32 to roll into another thing with the debt snowball.

Yeah, for me, things like Renner Center, that's akin to payday loans and stuff. It's really just scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'd want you to get that stuff clean. Honestly, like I said, I'd be looking and going, What can I just give back? If you're making $300 doing this wrecking service, how quickly can you save up what you need for tires, baseline, you know what I mean? Just get yourself back on your feet in that way. Then you've also got this debt and collections. The way you listed it out, $47,000 in cars, 29,000 in credit, I want you to go through even further with a fine toothcomb and really list each debt in order from smallest to largest, because that's going to give you not only a clear picture of truly what's going on, but it's going to break it down in a way that you can, like you just said, Hey, this one is for $2,000. I can tackle that. It's going to help you see it in its smallest form so that you know, Okay, what is it going to take? How many hours do I need to do? Okay, I can pay that one-off.

And you're just going one by one, line by line.

Yeah, for the cars, Kevin, how much? You said $47,000 for cars. So how much is each car?

For my truck, it's $700 a month.

Or what's the total loan? Sorry.

Well.

$22,000. $22 for your truck. Okay, and what's the next car?

My wife's SUV. It's a 24.3..

Twenty-four thousand. Okay. And then 2,900 on credit cards?

Yes, that's including the-.

The rental centers? Yeah. That's right. You were saying that. Okay, yeah. So if you'll break those out per credit card, per rental center- $700.

On one, $300 on another, a thousand for a bed, $500 for my tires, and $200 for a computer.

If.

I paid off the computer with the check that I get.

Today- Yeah, that's exactly right. That's good. And then $9,000 in student loans, is that right?

Yes.

Okay, and then some in collections.

What's your income? Like you and your wife's combined income.

Combined, our take homes of just over $100.

That's a take home. Okay, good. So $63,000 in debt, a 100,000 take home. There's a part to this where I go, okay, what would happen if you guys lived on $60,000 and you're going through this? You've got $40,000 just in your money that you can put towards this every year, plus-.

Three hundred a week side hustle.

The side hustle and your wife getting a side hustle. When you look at it like that, you realize, Kevin, that this can knock this out fairly quickly.

Eighteen24 months, right?

Yeah, and that was why I called, because the debt snowball, I think it's to list the smallest to largest, right?

That's.

Right. Exactly. Take on the. And some of these weekly payments aren't the smallest. But if I attacked the weekly payments first and got them paid off really quick, that has me paying $2,500 a month towards the next.

Well, the smallest to largest is not the payment size, it's the size of the debt, the total debt. Okay. Like you said with those rental centers, I think you said one of the total debts was 200. One of the total debts was 300, right?

Yeah. Those would be my smallest. That's right. I was thinking payments.

Nope, by the balance.

By the amount. And you want to stay current on everything. So you'll stay current on all the payments, pay off that smallest. And then, Kevin, you guys, you and your wife, because even just this picture of the debt, this isn't to shame or embarrass you, but it's a picture of like, this is normal. You guys were just doing what you wanted, and you make great money. And you're probably feeling like, how are we broke? How do we feel like we have no money? And we have to go to Renner Center for our furniture. When we make $100,000 a year combined, this shouldn't- Shouldn't be like that. Yeah, this is not how it should be. And so as you guys start this process, Kevin, I would really encourage you to lean in when you start to feel these winds, because I would bet you, Kevin, that you guys may look up at the $24,000 SUV and be like, Man, could we sell it for $26,000, get 2K, and get a crappy car for a little bit, and knock this out even sooner? Because there's a taste of freedom, Kevin, that you guys have never had, have never experienced.

And for you and your wife doing this process together, it is huge. So I want you to stay on the line because we want to give you, Financial Peace University, for you and your wife to go through together. And you guys, it's our nine-lesson course, and you guys walk through that and every dollar premium. And this is our budgeting app that connects to your bank. And it's really going to help you guys list out very specifically, hey, here's our paycheck. Where is it all going? This is going to give you a roadmap to get this stuff paid off. And I think with the side hustle and everything, Kevin, this is it. I mean, yeah, your question was, what's the best use of.

Our side?

18 months, I bet. Yeah, our side hustle money. And it's to throw at that smallest debt amount. And as you guys start to really make this traction and this progress, you're going to feel it. And it's going to... It's going to be amazing. And we're here for you. So keep watching the show and listening for that encouragement because the way you're going to view money is totally different than how you've lived, and it's going to feel uncomfortable at times. It's not going to always be fun during the season of Sacrifice. But the more you guys sacrifice and really buckle down, yeah, the traction you're going to see is amazing.

Look, and you hit the nail on the head, $100,000. You think, All right, we're doing well. The average family is somewhere around 67,000. So if you are above that mark, status tells us, Hey, that's good. You're doing well. And it does feel weird when you're like, Wait a minute. I'm buying my furniture at Renner Center.

I can't buy tires.

I can't buy tires. And I told you during the break, I knew this couple, they were older than us. But when I was in college, I went to their house, and I remember them saying, Our furniture is from Renner Center. They had two giant SUVs that were brand new. I remember thinking, Wow, they've made it. But their situation was probably very similar to what we just heard. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, when you start to make these changes, it will show. So if you try to do this in a vacuum or in the quiet, you have to just accept, Hey, if I really want to do this and I want to do it faster, I might drive a different car. People might see me going from driving a 2023 Infinity down to a 2015 Camry. And they may ask me questions about that, and that is okay. Number one, it's none of their business unless you want it to be their business. But if they ask you, there's no shame in saying, You know what? We were out of control and we're getting our life back. Let's normalize that as the status.

Symbol of- Amen. I'm getting my.

Life back, and I am being a responsible adult. When you give back that bed to Renner Center and give back the tires to Renner Center, that is you being a responsible adult. Folks changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show and standing on the Debt Free stage. We have Connor and Julian with us. Welcome, you guys. Hello. Thanks for letting us be here. Well, congratulations. We always know when there's people with headphones on the Debt Free stage that there's always a good story. Where are you guys from? We're from Oklahoma City. Okay, awesome. And how much debt did you guys pay off?

We paid off $288,000.

Amazing. What debt was it?

So it consisted of student.

Loans, rental property, as well as our.

Primary residence.

Paid off for a house. We did. Amazing. How much were you guys making during that time?

We started at $74,000 and finished right around $103.

Okay. And how long did it take you? Thirty-eight months. Thirty-eight months. Amazing, you guys. Okay, so 38 months ago, what happened? What caused this radical change of paying off almost $800,000 of debt? So I got.

Started on the.

Plan before we got married.

We were still dating at the time. And once we got married, we hit it hard. I told her the game plan.

She knew what she.

Was getting herself into because I was already hardcore on the Dave Ramsey plan.

And so then from there, once we had a combined income, we just hit the ground running.

Okay, so what was the debt? I guess what was the debt going into the marriage? Who had the rental property? Who had the student loan?

So I had the rental property. It was actually a previous primary residence from my first duty station. Okay, wow. So my question is, I'm looking at a rental and a house. What are those properties worth?

So that was the key.

That was how we paid off. We sold the rental property, which was a big part of paying off our primary residence.

Wow. Amazing. How much was that? How much of that was- So we sold.

The rental property. We left with about $100,000 in equity when we sold that.

Okay, good.

For you. Amazing.

So that added, of course, to the 288. Absolutely. Amazing. Was that a hard decision to make? Because a lot of people that call this show, they love a rental property. They always want to.

Keep it. And especially in the military, it's definitely not the norm to not keep the property. But I had purchased that property right before really diving into the Dave Ramsey plan.

Yes.

So I knew when we left that that was the.

Best decision to make. Okay, and what branch of the military are you in? Army. Army, okay. Thank you. Thanks for your service.

Yeah, definitely. What caused you to dive into the plan? How did you get acquainted with this plan? How did you find it? What was your first reaction? I have always been pretty financially oriented. I've always had an interest in it. But I think my dad was getting tired of me asking him questions about finances. He purchased the Financial Peace University CD bundle and had it shipped to my house.

I went listen to that.

Two times over on my way to work every day, and I just bought in Dove in at first.

Great. And how long have you guys been married? We've been married for just over three years. Three years, okay. So, Julian, you knew what you were obviously getting into. He's very focused. He is very. You can tell. Connor knows what he wants. Oh, yes. So what were you thinking when he brought this up? I guess I'm assuming when you were dating, even this was a conversation. Oh, absolutely. So I.

Was not a stranger to Dave Ramsey. My parents in high school made us do the financial peace class with our youth group. So when he told me that he really.

Wanted to do it, I said, I mean, that's fine.

I'm not the money person. Don't ask me my advice. So I was.

Ready to do it.

It wasn't as.

Hard to switch.

Using just my debit card to just using straight cash. It wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be because it made me actually not spend all my money. It made me budget. So you went full cash mode, full cash envelopes. Absolutely. I love it.

I love it. Connor is hardcore. I can tell. Okay, so what was the hard part? Because you're newly married, right? And I just feel like, especially that stage, I feel like there's different stages of life, like when you graduate college after you get married, there's certain points in life that it just feels like everyone around you is living at a certain lifestyle degree of what they're doing. So what was hard about that? Did you feel like that was around you and you had to push back? Or were you were you so focused that you didn't like there was a lot of temptation?

No, there was definitely some temptation. A lot of friends didn't really understand what we were doing. They didn't appreciate that we couldn't always do.

All the.

Things that they were doing. But for the most part, our families were all completely on board. We definitely had a.

Strong.

Cheerleader.

Squad. So I would say all.

In all.

The friend.

Group part was the.

Hardest part of it. Yes, for sure. On the social side. Absolutely. Yeah, I can definitely that. So what would you say the key of getting out of debt is? If someone asks, someone listening or watching right now and they're thinking, Oh, my gosh, we're newlyweds. We have all this debt. And look at them on stage, they've done it. What would you say to someone, the things that they have to do to make this process work?

So I'll say two things, one general and one military specific. I'd say general is living on less than what you make.

I.

Think we all know, and that's a common thing I know that gets put on here. But for military specific, it's not trying to do what's popular and what everyone else is doing. I think it's very popular in the military for people to try to acquire a home at every duty station, and then people end up.

With four.

Or five houses in four or five different cities, and that's where we were for a second, and I was like, That's not going to work. That's not the best way to do this. Once I saw that we could pay off our primary residence by selling the rental property, it was hands down, easy decision. Amazing. Can I ask about that? Because I could imagine the influence of that. There's all these people around you, they're doing this thing. Was it simple as going, Hey, you guys are doing this. It doesn't seem to be working well for you. How were you able to reconcile that? Because it is hard to look at what everybody seems to be doing, especially if it looks like it's working and do the exact opposite. Talk more about that. For me, it was a little bit easier because both the houses were on 15-year fixed mortgages. Where a lot of people have it financed on a 30-year mortgage and they're like, Oh, well, I'm making $200 a month rent to their mortgage, and we were never making a profit off of the rent because we had a higher mortgage at a 15-year. And so that also, we were at a point where I was like, Well, we're really one bad brew for HVAC system away from a bad time.

So that's when I was like.

Long distance landlord is not for us.

We're not going to do that. I just started turning on your brain and thinking about what this really, really means for your situation. I love that.

So good. Okay, so how does it feel?

It's outstanding.

Wild. I mean, it's crazy that you guys own your home. How old are you guys?

Twenty-eight. I'm 25. Holy crap. Wow.

I mean, that's so remarkable, you guys. That's unbelievable. So all the hard work and the sacrifice, which I know part of this was the rental house that you sold, but $180,000 came from you guys living it out. And so if someone asks, was it worth it? What would you say? Absolutely. Amazing. And I'll just say.

That the one thing on that is a lot of people, if they saw our story just from afar, they might think, Oh, that's an easy way to pay off debt. But I want people to know that we got extremely lucky with the COVID-19 market on how much our house in El Paso appreciated. Yes. So that was a huge part of.

And like.

I said, that was luck. That was not the norm as far as.

Buying and selling real estate goes.

Absolutely, yes. We got lucky in that regard. I don't want people to think that anyone should just buy and sell a house like that. Right, yeah. That's a very good point.

That's so great. You guys, well, Connor and Julian, you're amazing. In your late 20s, mid-20s, and you guys have done it. I'm like, And now, seriously? People call the show in their 50s and 60s, and they're like, Why didn't we do this earlier? And you guys get such a Head Start. And so I see you have some cheerleaders next to you here on your left. Absolutely. Who's with you today? So aunt and uncle that.

Live locally here, and then our son, Logan.

So you have a son. Logan. Oh, he's so cute. Oh, my God. And how old is he? He is a year and a half. Year and a half. Okay, well, you guys, we have the live and give bundle for you guys to enjoy or give away all the pieces within that because you guys are definitely living like no one else. So we have Connor and Julian from Oklahoma City, who paid off $288,000, including their house in 36 months, making $74,000 to $108,000. Count it down. Let's hear your big, debt-free scream.

Three, two, one, we're debt-free.

Amazing. Oh, absolutely incredible.

I am shook.

I am shook.

They're not even 30.

That's it. That's where I'm just like, You can decide. You can decide. And there's a road to be walked down that. But man, what an incredible life that they're about to dive into financially in so many ways. Absolutely amazing. Congratulations, Conor and Julian. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Corinthians 16:13 through 14. Be on your guard. Stand firm in the faith. Be courageous. Be strong. Do everything in love. Dorothy Bernard said, Courage is fear that has said its prayers.

Oh, different.

Courage is fear. It has said its prayers. There you go.

I'm going to marinate on that.

That's a good quote. Yes. All right. Up next, we have Colin in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Colin, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. I'm trying to figure out what I need to do. I am 21 years old. I am $42,000 in debt. And I just got laid off two weeks ago, and I'm in a bind thing. I am borrowing money from my aunt and uncle, but I don't have any payments until about three weeks from now.

Wow. Okay. What's your living situation? Are you renting? Are you living with family?

I am living with my aunt and uncle right now. They're helping me out. But one of the rules is with me living with them, I'm getting my GED. I did drop out of high school. Before I got laid off, I was making a crapload of money for my age. My sister always told me to listen to you all. She told me to give you all a call to help me figure it out. That's where most of my debts coming from is from cars. Just wasn't spending the.

Money wisely. How much were you making?

I was making from 1,800 to 2,500 a week.

Okay. And what work were you doing?

I was an oiler. I worked on the road. I worked in Kansas, New Mexico. I maintained heavy equipment.

Are you trying to get back into that same field or are you looking to do something else?

I'm pretty religious in my life, and I don't necessarily... What I've learned over time is money is not worth it to me. Actually, I want to become a firefighter. I've always wanted to be one. Okay. I want to go to school and I want to try to work on that. I know where I'm at in Texas, there's a program that pays for you to become a firefighter, but they only accept 1,000 people, and it's at the end of September.

Okay, so that's a long ways.

I'm trying to figure out a way to manage until then or trying to get out of debt or.

Figure something out. Yeah. What's the 42,000, Colin? What's that consistent?

I have a sports car, which is 24,000 of that. And then I have a GMC Sierra, which is the other, is a truck.

And how much is that?

I think it's like 19,000 or something like that, or 18,000.

Okay. So it's all cars, literally two cars.

Yes, ma'am. And then I have two other cars also.

What? Okay, how much are those?

I have a Chevy Tahoe. It's paid off. It's about $12,000, I would say it's worth. And then I have a Honda Civic, but it has a blown up motor right now.

Wow. How much could Okay. How much could you sell it? If you're just without a motor, with anything, just sell it.

Yeah, that's what I'm working on. I have a buyer for next week.

How much will you get for it?

About 1,800.

Okay.

This is what he wants to offer.

All right. We're not.

Going to last you.

So long. Colin.

We're going to sell up these cars, buddy.

Honestly, Colin, I would just have a massive car sale. I would sell everything. I would sell them all. Everything must go. I would sell all of them. What could you get for the sports car? You owe $24,000. How much could you get for it, do you think?

So the problem with me, I love cars and I'm a car enthusiast. I have modified it. And to a dealership, they're offering $12,000 is what I got offered.

For the $24,000? Okay, not a dealership. Did you Kelly Blue Book it?

Yeah. So, Kelly Blue Book came back at $16,000. But with the modifications, they said it's going to be less. So I'm stuck with trying to sell it private party is what I'm.

Stuck with. Is this because you did a bunch of stuff to it? Yeah.

So it makes a lot more horsepower. It's a very fast car. Interesting. I've put about $12,000 into it, except for buying also on top.

What about the other car? What about the $19,000? Yeah.

That's the most reliable vehicle I have, I.

Would say. Wait. How much did you sell it for?

I could sell it for around 15,000 is what a dealership offered me.

So if you sold the Tahoe, if you sold the Civic, you could cover whatever you're upside down truly in either car. Even if you chose to take the hit on the sports car, I'd probably focus on the $19,000 car, the Sierra, and I'd get rid of those three for sure.

Yeah, and then you're going to make $12,000, maybe $1,800 from the Honda. So that's $14,000 that you're going to make off of selling the other cars. So you can cover some of the difference, the 4,000. With that, keep the sports car, and you're going to have $10,000 to put towards that. Honestly, without a job right now, Colin, I just don't like you sitting with a $24,000. I don't know if you'll be able to get a loan for the difference on all of these either, because usually we take a loan out for the difference.

But if he gets the 12K from the Tahoe, then he can cover... He honestly could cover the upside down the 4,000 from the Sierra, and he'd probably be able to cover the other 5,000 from the sports car. Because what are you paying in payments for the sports car and the Sierra every month combined?

I am paying $450 for the Camaro. It's a Camaro. And then for my Sierra, I pay, I think it's like $270.

I mean, look at that. That's $700. That's over $700 a month that you're getting back.

That would feel- And insurance I'm paying about $780 a month also for cars.

Being covered. I mean, look at that. And then you could take some cash and you could buy yourself a cash car. Like you said, you're into cars, so you know how to pick a car for $5,000. That's just going to be your temporary thing until you get back on your feet. And then you can add money to that and upgrade. But, I mean, you got $42,000 of debt. It's all cars and you don't have a job.

Yeah.

And the thing about this is that house of cards came down, but you get to build back up stronger and you get to build back up on the right footage. So it feels bad right now, but it doesn't have to stay that way. And I don't want you to think that we're trying to take all your toys away from you and put you in the corner. We just want you to get out of this debt. You're living with your uncle and aunt who are nice enough to do that. And this is you going, Look, I may a mistake. I'm going to make it right so I can get up out of you all's house so I can stop borrowing money. And next time, because there is going to be a next time where you make great money, and you're going to treat it the right way, and you're going to buy things in cash, and you're not going to go into debt because you will have then known how it feels for that to cave in on you, and you're never going to do.

That again. Yeah, because, Colin, you said earlier in the call that you, I think you said something like, I'm a religious person, so money is not everything to me anymore. And that's true. But money is something when you don't have it all and you got two car payments. So there is a level of having money in its right position. And I think that's what you were saying, which is very noble that, yes, money is not everything, but you do have to have it as a tool in life. So you have to learn to manage it. So you're either going to choose to manage it well and why so that it doesn't become an idol in your life, or if it's the thing that you're stressed over and over and over and over and over every single month, living month to month and stress, it's going to become an idol. So as spiritualists, we want to make it for it not to be... You actually can choose for it not to be an idol to have control over it. And I think that's one of the best things that you can do, Colin. And I think that this is a wake-up call.

I think there was a part of you that we all have this little inner child that once and once and once I see it when J. Crew has a sale or whatever it may be that you're like, It's what I want. I want that. I want that. Yours happens to be cars. And I think, Colin, there's a level of maturity here that you're like, I'm a man, and you're getting your GED, which I think is fabulous. And you want a career that you said is a firefighter. And you said it's not going to make a lot, but that's okay, because money is not a big thing to me. Well, guess what? You get an option to be a firefighter and maybe not make as much when you don't have debt, but you don't have that option to make that money solely when you have all these car payments, too. So that's the trade off I want you to see that living without debt not only frees you up financially and spiritually, emotionally, like we talk about, but it frees up your options. If you have no payments, then you can say, Yeah, I'm going to choose to be a firefighter, make less than what I made in the oil fields.

But I literally can because I don't have bills. So I have the freedom to choose that, which is beautiful. And that's what you're starting to see, Colin, is that it gives you options. It gives you the ability to make decisions with your life. I was talking, Colin, to this young couple when I first started speaking, and they had close to $180,000 in student loan debt combined. They just got married out of college. They went to two Christian universities. They wanted to be missionaries.

And you can't...

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. You have bills to pay. So, Colin, this is the best thing for you. I'm so excited for you. Sell these cars, become debt free, get a side hustle, work till September to be able to go be a firefighter and do what you want to do. I love it. Jade, thanks for being an awesome co-host. As always, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

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