Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I am Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney. And we're here to answer your questions. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-8-825-5225. So call in and we'll chat about what's going on in your life. So first up, we have Tiffany in Vancouver. Hey, Tiffany, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So I have a question for Dr. John. I've been listening to the show to this podcast lately and just really finding his advice and questions helpful. And so my husband struggles with some mental illness, and that obviously impacts our marriage. We've been married for about 20 years, and he suffers with bipolar, depression, and anxiety. The first 10 years were pretty rough because he was just trying to be diagnosed and trying to find the right medication and treatment and all those things. But there's been an improvement and continues to be improvement. But I'm just getting to the point of really feeling the impact of it on our marriage, even more so because I'm in a, not I don't want to say a better place, but in a place where I'm realizing what's important to me. Some of the ways that it impacts is I'm very outgoing, I'm social, I like traveling and doing different things. He does not. He doesn't really leave. He leaves our house a lot. He doesn't really enjoy socializing. He does go to the important events that we have, which I really appreciate that he pushes himself to do that because I know he doesn't enjoy it and he struggles to be there.

But I guess I'm struggling with feeling disappointed and resentment, even though I know it's not him that's doing that. It's the mental illness. But just trying to figure out what's next almost. I can still do the things that I want to, but I want to be able to do them with him.

He's struggling.

How to work.

Through that. Yeah. It sounds like you had a picture of what your life is going to look like. For 10 years of it, you were treading water, or you're bailing water out of a boat with holes in it, and then you got a new boat, you figured out you got the meds regulated, and it sounds like he's worked his butt off, and you have two. Now you're realizing, Oh, this is it.

Yeah, this is it. This is as good as it's.

Going to get. Well, I don't like to say that language because you look at him and you keep saying he's got to grow, but you do too. But this is what it is right now, right? You see the trajectory of where you come, and you can imagine the trajectory of where you're going. My hard question for you is, I don't say almost always, but in a significant number of conversations like this, you've met someone. Somebody, and maybe you haven't cheated on anybody or anything like that, but you've met somebody that laughs at your jokes, tells you that you're beautiful, is hilarious, shows up, seems a little more stable. Is that the case here? No. Okay, so you're just looking at this saying, I love this man, but I really don't love my life.

Yes.

Okay, so what's your question?

Well, I guess I don't know if there's a way, or do you have any suggestions of how is this something that you can move past, like feeling frustrated and disappointed that I don't get to enjoy these things with him? Because I want to travel with him, and I can still travel.

Yeah, there's no.

Way to get him to travel because he's too anxious.

Well, there's some truth to that. Also, I have people that I love dearly that I've been in relationship with for years that have worked really hard. I've stayed on the show, so I don't mind saying that. My mom wouldn't fly. My mom would not get on an airplane. It was an act of Congress to get on an airplane. In her 40s, 20s, 30s, 40s, she just wouldn't do it. She just finished her... She's in her mid-70s, and she just her last summer at Oxford. She kept working at it and kept working at it, and then started doing it more and more. It was a work obligation. Then it was a, Hey, I'll do it for dad. Then a, Hey, I want to do this for me. Then it became an idea. Dude, she's been in Wales. She's been all over the world now. That's why I don't like to just cash it out. The bigger deal is this. I love, love, love punk rock shows. I had this picture that my wife would always be this tattooed-up person with me that would to these punk rock shows. If you've ever met my wife, she is not that.

Rachel's laughing.

Sheila could rock some tattoos if she.

Needed to. Yeah, she definitely can do tattoos. But here's the deal. I had to make peace with that's not going to happen. That's not how I'm married. She'd go sit on the front row of George straight with me. I've got a group of buddies that I do that with. In my heart of heart to it, I love that? Yes. If there's a show that I really want her to come to, will she do it? Yeah, she will. But I've made peace with it. Here's the deal. I have a blast. It's when I'm not sitting there having the time of my life with three or four of my close buddies, with Pete and Blake and some of these guys, that I'm not going, I wish my wife was here, because then I'm choosing to bring misery into a joyful moment, right? So, yeah, man, I wish you would travel. I wish you would do this stuff. Let's keep working on it. And especially if you're not saying, Hey, I've got somebody else. I don't want this thing to be over.

And also, Tiffany, and I don't want to interrupt you, but I even think what you're saying, Tiffany, is that there's disappointment even in the day-to-day. Maybe not the big, fun, exciting parts of life that he doesn't want to do, but even the day-to-day sounds miserable for you. I'm like, even starting off at that level of saying, Gosh, what are things we can bring into our lives that we both find joy in to get joy back? It just feels like it's completely stripped from you in your marriage in general. Is that fair?

Yeah, I would say that's accurate.

The only way to heal from anxiety is to walk right through it. So sometimes there is a survival. It sounds like you all were surviving for a decade, which is very common with someone who's struggling with bipolar and people around them don't know, and no one knows. But now we know what it is. Instead of saying, You need to get up and do this, or, We need to go out. I would really feel loved if in two weeks you could put on your calendar that you go out on a day with me. And give him some time to practice, give him some time to think through it, give him some time to be anxious about it, and then you all practice leaning into it.

Because does he want to continue to push to get better too, Tiffany? Are you wanting this more for him? No, he does too. Is he wanting it? He does.

Yeah, he does want it, I think. Yeah, that's great. I think sometimes the anxiety and the depression, squash the desire.

Yeah, it just gets heavy. It gets exhausting. It's exhausting. Yeah. And there's some nights he's going to get up and go out, even though his body says, Hey, dude, let's get under the covers and just watch another Netflix series. And? Yeah. Some nights you're going to want to go out, and you're going to sit down and hold his hand and let him borrow some of your nervous system, and you're all going to watch a show together. This is marriage, but this is also you all continuing to practice and practice and practice. Then it would not surprise me at all if he begins to find joy and you all get further and further connected. I'm going to ask you, don't continue to drag the, Well, I wish and could be into a world where that's not possible. I'm going to ask you to bring positivity, but not just positivity, optimism about, Here's where I am. I really want to go to this concert. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to go on this trip. I'm going to invite some girlfriends. It doesn't mean my marriage is broken. It means I wanted it to be like this, but I'm going to do it like this, and keep walking alongside him.

I think you all can get there. I think you can get there. Thank you, Tiffany, for calling. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If your healthcare costs are increasing while your choices are decreasing, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Chm is not health insurance. It's a biblically-based health cost-sharing ministry that has helped thousands of families across the country by sharing each other's medical bills. Chm is an affordable alternative to health insurance that aligns with your values and makes it possible for you to save on healthcare without giving up your freedom. Check out more at chministries. Org/budget. That's chministries. Org/budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney answering your questions. Up next, we have John in New York City, or Jason. Sorry. Hey, Jason, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you. Thank you. Big fan of the show, guys. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for calling in. We appreciate it. How can we help?

Yeah. So I've been retired from the army 20 years active duty, and I've been retired for five years now. And just to get where I'm at, I make about 150,000 a year now with my retirement. The only debt I have is my car payment. I have a rather expensive car that I should not have bought during COVID. It's a 2022 Acquire RDX that I owe $49,000 on. I know it's probably only get about $37,000 out of it if I tried to trade it in or sell it somewhere around there from what I've already found out. I don't have any credit card debt. I don't own a house. I'm renting right now. I just married last year. I'm just trying to get on track and I have the $1,000 put away. But my problem is I have $15,000 in cryptocurrency.

I.

Know. All right. I bought in wherever it was all the hype. And I had $19,000, but it's down to $15,000. I'm in the negative for $4,000 on it if I were to sell it right now.

Yeah.

And my question to you guys is, what would you recommend? I've actually listened to a lot of your episodes. I'm just in one of those weird situations where, do I pay off my card, take all my extra money, pay off my car? Do I sell the car and get something cheaper? Do I sell my Bitcoin? I'm not a person to advice for you guys.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Do you have any other money saved just than non-retirement?

Yeah, I have about six or seven. I'm close to 7,000. This is going to be 7,000 in a liquid account.

Okay, good for you. Okay, I'll tell you what I would do, but you're probably not going to like it, Jason.

No, it's fine. I want to.

Hear it. Because what we do on the show, I think the best, is to help people get from point A to point B when it comes to building wealth. And so you have a lot of pieces to these puzzles, to this puzzle. And I think if you choose to put them in correctly, it's going to be a really beautiful picture. It's probably going to look a little different than your life right now, in a sense, but it's what I would do. So I would take the hit on the car, I'd sell it. And then I would take your 15,000 because you still are going to owe some because you're underwater on it. And I would cash out Bitcoin, use that 15 grand for that difference, and you'll have about three left out of the Bitcoin. I would go and buy a car with maybe six grand, take three there, take three out of the 7,000 that you have, be completely debt free, start building up my emergency fund with $4,000 that I have left over and continue on my way. I would personally just go ahead and take the loss in the Bitcoin. Because even though it hurts, honestly, there's no great track record that shows you're not going to continue to lose money.

We may look up in a year. And if history serves me right, it's probably going to be even worse. So I would take it out now and let your pay the stupid tax of losing the four grand and Bitcoin. That's what we always call is just stupid tax. When you do something, you lose money. You're just like, Dad, gum it. I'm never going to do that again. Take the loss and then see that 15 grand as... I mean, this is key. This is a gift at that point to go ahead and take the loss of the car, get rid of the car payment completely, the car loan, and continue on my way is what I would do. But again, that puzzle that we just put together, that picture, that final picture looks different than you sitting with a nice, what was it? An Audi, an Acura, sitting with a nice car and some cash over here and this and some Bitcoin over here. It's taking all that down to a life with no debt, with a crappier car, but some savings and then continuing to move forward from there.

Yeah. And that's why I was wondering. I knew I would take a large hit on the car, and I knew I'd take a large hit on the Bitcoin. They would put me somewhere in the neck, or at least in the positive, but then I'd be starting fresh with another car. And I have been looking at cars really cheap. It's just I didn't know what you guys recommended on that because I've been looking at cars around seven to 10,000, and they have a hundred thousand miles.

Right. Well, I know. And with them-for right now. Yeah. And when we look at cars in general, if it's more than half of your annual take-home pay, that's always a red flag. Or if you can't pay it off in 12 to 18 months. So maybe you say, Yeah, if we buckle down and finish paying this off, but gosh, you still have $49,000 left on it?

Yeah.

Yeah. But in New York City, it's going to be hard to... I mean, just the standard of living that you guys are in naturally, you'll feel that. You'll feel that pinch if you're going to try to sacrifice and just pay it off. I almost would just get rid of it, Jason, honestly.

Yeah, so let me ask you this, Jason. What would the number be? So you're a combat veteran, you've been active duty. What is the number? If I said, Hey, for $10,000, not one person on planet Earth will own you, Jason. You can do whatever you want. You can go to work if you want to or not to. You can sleep. You and your wife can just go... Your new wife, you all can go on vacation. Nobody can tell you what to do. What would that number be, man?

Gosh, that's a really great question. I don't know if there is a number I.

Could put on it. Here's the other side. You're looking at the loss, and psychologically speaking, our brains are designed to look for loss. That's why 500 people in an audience can say, Jason, that was the greatest speech of all time. One guy will go, That sucked, and you won't sleep at night because of that one guy, right? That's all of us. That's how our brains are wired. You're only seeing, I lost 4,000 here. I lost the Accura here. I'm smart, and I did something stupid. I'm dumb. That's all you're seeing. I want you to flip it around on the other side. Accura Financial, I don't know where you finance that car from. They're a USAA. Whoever it is, they demand that you go to work tomorrow because you owe them. They are your boss. If your boss says, Hey, you're going to start selling this product, you're like, I don't believe in that product. Your boss is going to go, Yeah, I don't really care. You're going to do this, or you're fired. Then your brain sets off the little alarms because it knows, Oh, dude, we can't live here. We're going to take the car.

We're going to lose this, we're going to lose this. For me, $4,000 of loss plus $10,000 on the car, 15 grand for my soul? Dude, I'll pay that all day long. Yeah, that's right. I'll pay that all day long. You're already married. You already are one of the toughest, bravest men on planet Earth. You've dedicated your life to public service and courage. You have nothing left to prove to anybody. Get an $8,000 car with 100,000 miles. Who cares? You already found somebody that says, I do forever. You've won. You're there. You have nothing to prove to nobody, man. Go choose freedom. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, I know. Honestly, for me, Jason, the car conversation, it is hard because if it's like a student loan, you got to pay it, right? There's no getting around it. There's no selling something. The car, it's such like... And I'm not saying this is you, Jason, just our culture, it's such an ego play of like, This is a nice car. There's a part of all of us that our identity is so attached to our stuff. And that's what it is. I'm like-.

Not to mention, hey, I slept in on two by fours, on plywood, as active duty. I deserve an accurate... And as somebody whose family benefits from your service, I agree. Yes. I hope that you-.

Get the.

Accurate again. You solve for freedom, and you get whatever car you want. You save it up and buy it with cash, and buy it from some knucklehead in your same position who's in your water and who's going to have to get rid of, right? So I just want you to be able to afford it because not only do I want you to have a nice car because I do think you deserve it more than most. I want you to sleep all night. Absolutely. I want you to have deep, connected, intimate moments with your wife and have that little part of your brain going, We're not safe. We're not safe. Acura owns us. I don't want that. I want you to be able to just plug in and do whatever you want to. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's why I called this is what I needed to hear. I've been trying to get hold of you guys for a while. So I'm glad I actually got.

To go to that. Yeah, totally. Go be free, brother. Go be free, man. And not to go and jump in the numbers. But again, I want to reiterate, Jason, that 7,000, because you already have your 1,000 saved up. It could take the car loan down to 42. And according to our standard math here at Rames that we do, you could choose to sacrifice the lifestyle of a year or something and pay it off and do what you can. But is all of that worth it for the car, right?

That's the point. And the car would.

Continue to go down in value. Yes. Yeah, that's true. Yes, it continues to go down. So for me, I'm like, It's not worth the sacrifice for the car. Just get rid of the car and we're going to move on and have freedom like what John's explaining. I'm so glad, Jason, that you got through and we were able to talk to you. We hope that that helps. I'm grateful for you, brother. Yeah. Thanks for your service, for sure. This is The Ramsey Show.

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You can probably go to neighborly. Com to get lessons on how to read, too. Just go to neighborly. Com. All right, today's question comes from Annie in Florida. My husband, our two kids, and I live with my husband's widowed mom who doesn't work. We pay all the bills, buy grocery, and pay her house taxes. She and I don't get along 90 % of the time, especially when it comes to my kids. My husband and I are not on the same page with money, and I don't have control over the money unless he gives it to me. We have one debt left, and we could pay it off in one to two months if we work together, but there's just no urgency from him. My sanity is on the brink and I'm tired of arguing with my husband and being run over by my in-laws. I've talked to my husband and tried to lay boundaries, but then I'm just a control freak according to my mother-in-law. Sometimes I just want to leave and get my own apartment with my kids, but I don't feel like that would be right and would make things worse. I know I shouldn't let other people control my emotions, but this is like a wound that keeps getting cut open and salt poured in it.

Is getting away from my mother-in-law going to fix things or am I the issue?

Good night. Well, I don't like that she can't get money unless he gives it to me. No, thank you. I'm a control freak according to my mother-in-law. No, thank you.

Yeah, it sounds like you are just breathing the air of planet gaslight. A lot of dysfunction. Yeah, a lot of gaslight. All we can go on, Annie, is what you've written here. Here's what I would tell you based on exactly what you wrote, and I always want to hold in both hands, there's two sides to a story. You are not the issue. Yes, getting away from your mother-in-law would fix some things, but the bigger thing here is you have a husband who is overbearing, does not have a partner. He is much more interested in making sure his mommy's okay, and his mommy's brought into all of your life. Then he is being married and building a life with you, co-creating a world with his wife. So, yes, getting away from your mother-in-law would for sure help. And you got to deal with your marriage. You got to deal with your marriage. And itsounds like your husband has very little interest in dealing with your marriage. In fact, when you try, he turns it over to his mom, and she lobbed bullets at you. Rachel, there's this idea that we're going to take, for lack of a better terms, we're going to take a practice separation for a few days.

It might be up to 30 days. It might be for two weeks. But it is a, I'm choosing to step out because I'm becoming somebody that I don't want to be with my kids. I'm becoming somebody I don't want to be with you. Anytime you do that, it's important to have, we're going to circle back at this time, at this date, at this restaurant to talk. We're going to bring this person with us. You got to set some guide rules. But this is one of those moments that continuing just to stay in this sewer, somebody's going to end up doing something that you can't take back. And so, Annie, you're not crazy. You are not messed up here. It sounds like you have tried to do what's right, and you are just.

Getting dragged underwater. I think that's one of the hardest parts of marriage when you hear a situation like that, because for so many people, I think learning to balance how do I take care of myself, but also take care of this relationship, this lifelong relationship that I'm in, right? Right. But taking care of yourself is the key to then having a healthier marriage. Right. I think sometimes we mix those up and think I got to just fix my marriage, fix my marriage. But it's actually making sure you're okay taking care of yourself in these moments, right?

Well, especially.

If- This almost sounds like this is.

Not good. I was going to say abusive, but anytime somebody gives their wife an allowance, that to me, I classify it as abusive. That is controlling nonsense behavior, right? Yeah, for two adults. For two adults, right? Yeah. But often in this situation, and it's usually wife trying to please husband, right? Not always, but often. It is the way I'm going to try to fix my marriage is by cutting off parts of me so that I can make this thing that we're doing together all right. What often people find, after they've cut all their toes off and all their fingers off, is that, Oh, he's just going to keep moving.

He didn't change it, yeah.

He's going to keep moving the finish line. It was never about us healing our marriage. It was never about me healing, and him healing, and us making this new thing. It was about he's just going to keep doing whatever he wants to do. You find yourself with nothing. Yes, at that point. That's why I like someone to step out. The language I use is somebody's got to turn on the lights, turn off the music. The party's over. I'm going to step out. I'm going to move into this place with my girlfriend. I'm going to move into this place with my mother-in-law. I mean.

With my mother, not my mother-in-law. In the kids? What do.

You- I'd bring them if you can. Often you learn a lot. If he didn't fight you on it, then that tells you what you need to know. But me and the kids were going to move over here for a couple of weeks, and I got to breathe because I can't have your mother-in-law doing this. I can't have you blaming me for all this. If he goes, I'm about to lose my.

Marriage, and.

He gets a quick dose of reality, then that's beautiful. If he goes, Fine, get out of here. Me and my mom, he's really telling you what you need to know.

Yeah. Oh, so hard. Annie, thanks for.

Writing us. I hate.

This for you.

-writing us, but man. I hate this. I don't have a psychology, and this is a bias, and I know it happens all over the place. I don't have a world where if I sat down with my wife and I said, Hey, I need this, her first response would be, sucks to be you. But I just don't live in that world. Right. These things break my heart.

That's right.

Yes. I'm like, Hey, I need you to help with... Am I doing that? That's tough.

That's tough, tough, tough, tough. That's so hard. So, so hard. All right, let's go back to the phones. We have Braden in Memphis, Tennessee. Hey, Braden, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel. Hi, John. Hey, John, how's it going?

We're doing great. How can we help?

So I'm getting ready to lock in my rate. I'm building a house. And my banker got in touch with me, and I know that you've always said to go with a 15-year fixed, but on the 30-year, I got quoted at a 6.6, and on a 15-year, I got quoted at a 7.25, and I didn't know if that has anything to do with you all's decision.

Yeah, the decision is less about interest rate and more about just urgency of getting it paid off. And that when you have a 15-year, you're obviously naturally going to pay it off half of the time that you would in a 30-year, but also with the plan that we encourage people to pay off their house even sooner than that in the 15-year. So that's why that principled rule is in place when it comes to mortgages. It's really less about the interest rate, which is so interesting because usually.

It's flipped. Is it an adjustable rate?

She said this is the first time she's seen it do that. They're both a 30-year and a 15-year fix. I wasn't really worried about it and was leaning towards going with the 30-year just because my last house, I paid off in seven months and 20 days. I'm pretty intentional about it. But I'm definitely not putting on doing that with this one just because that last one killed me.

Yeah. Where are you guys, Braden, financially? I'm just curious. Are you guys out of debt and have savings in your building and all that?

Zero debt. I've got $35,000 set aside for an emergency fund. Good for you, guys. And the house appraised to be worth $890, 900.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Congrats. Have you run the math on it just to see this interest rate, if I paid it off in 15, versus that interest rate, if I paid it off in 15, or paid it off in 30, which one will come out ahead?

I have it or in the math because basically on either one I was going to do, I was planning on paying it off in no more than probably two years because I only borrowed $80,000 on it. So it's not very much of a mortgage. What do.

You do for a living?

I just run my own business. I really don't make a lot. I've just always done you all's plans since I was probably eight.

But you're going to pay off a $900,000 house in two years?

Well, you paid most of it with cash. That's what you're saying. You only borrowed 80. That's impressive, Braden. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, we stick with the principal of that.

15-year- Because it doesn't matter for you.

Yeah, at that point, the interest rate isn't even that big of a swing because you're going to be paying it off so soon. Side of the principal again is to pay it off as soon as possible. Braden, fantastic job. Incredible, man. Well done. Either way, you're not making bad decisions in life. You're doing really good, so keep up the good work.

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Yeah, $12 for some of these. Own your past, change your future.

You're an incredible salesman.

Own your, whatever your book's called, John.

This is a Toyota. Is it a Toyota or a Honda? It doesn't matter. It's a car.

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But you could buy... Money is not the problem for all of your friends and breaking me from road... We got.

You, dude. Yeah. So make sure to check on all that stuff, you guys. Some good money content we're putting out into the world to help people get that hope back. All right, let's go to David in Colorado Springs. Hey, David, welcome to the show.

Good to talk to you guys.

How are you doing? Absolutely, we're great. We're glad that you called us, David. How can we help?

Okay, make a long story short. My stepdaughter has really been into figure skating since she was about six years old. And about a year and a half ago, she decided she wanted to start competing. So we're like, Well, we'll give it a year, see if she sticks with it. And she really has. And she started competing last year and is doing great. The issue is that we are on the low end of spending for this sport, and it's costing us almost $1,000 a month.

Oh.

Goodness. And it just goes up from there. Having more coaching, working with a physical trainer, starting to travel, having to pay for the coach to travel to competitions. We really are probably over our budget with what we're spending now, but at the same time, she really loves this, and we're trying to figure out how do you balance her loving the sport and us not going broke.

Man.

How old is she now?

She is 14.

Okay.

I've got some unpopular opinions on this that I always get in trouble for. Can I just put them out there? Is that cool?

John stirs the pot.

In all of this. I mean, very few things do I get in more trouble from the Internet people than this. But here we go. I would suggest that we've grown up in a culture. We've created a culture where the kid is the star of the family show. Ultimately, where do you want to eat? What do you want to do? Who do you want to become? What do you want to be when you grow up? What college do you want to go to? What's your dream school? We dump all of these things in our kids' backpack. Think of them as rocks. We just drop them in our kids and what happens without meaning to. This happens like us trying to love and honor and give our kids opportunities that we didn't have, they end up carrying the weight of the whole house. Dude, I'm a product of sports. I played sports all the way through. I was a two-sport letterman. I ran in college. I did MMA with professionals. I'm all about sports and teams and workouts and discipline. All that stuff is great. The greatest gift I can give my kid is not mortgaging my soul and our future.

Literally a second look at... Literally, it's like a mortgage that some people do to pay for this stuff, yeah.

To let them, quote-unquote, do whatever they want or do whatever they're passionate about, do whatever that feels right. The greatest gift I can give them is a stable, at peace mom and dad. That's the greatest gift. And so before I get down a road where I'm paying for private coaching, I got to fly the coach in or drive the coach in, now we got to do this, it just starts building. And like you said, a little bit of success breeds this. If you try to back out, it's like a timeshare salesman. They're like, Hey, but we see really a bright future with your daughter. If you do this, then it could lead to this, and it could lead to this. Your daughter is just sitting there looking at you, and you feel like the Antichrist pulling some stuff away. I always think it's best to not follow the rabbit down the rabbit hole on this, but it's to start all the way at the beginning with your wife and say, Hey, what home do we want to have? We're going to reverse engineer it that way. What can we actually afford? So take ice skating away and input Lexus.

If she was really passionate about Lexus and really a good driver, and you couldn't afford a Lexus, you wouldn't buy her Lexus. But for some reason, sports have become the altar that we sacrifice our families on and that we allow our families and our kids to worship. I think it's beyond madness. It's gone to pathology now. At the same time, dude, I get it. I can't imagine having a daughter who's starting to Excel. You're a stepdad. You're building relationships and connections, and then you're going to sit down and like, You're going to take this away. I get that. I can't think of something that would be harder to do as a parent. I just am seeing family after family mortgage their souls for sports and travel sports. And the sake of whatever my kid wants to do, I'm going to do it. The kids can't carry that weight. We end up burying our children.

What do you think, David?

Yeah, that's my thinking. We draw a line in the sand and it's like.

This.

Is what we can afford. I'm sorry.

Yeah. And David, honestly, too, if you don't do that, nobody else is. This ice skating community isn't going to. The trainer is not going to. The championship tournament places aren't going... No one else is going to do that. You literally could spend and spend and spend and spend. And there's nobody in the world that's going to be like, Hey, David, you got to stop. So that's when you and your wife together have to say, We have to put a boundary up because there's nobody else on planet Earth that puts up boundaries for us. We have to create those ourselves. And if you don't, especially these little microcosms of life and kid sports is one of them, you can just go down a train, just like John saying, and you look up and you guys have spent your retirement. I mean, you've done all of this. I know. I just am so cautious, especially, and I would say this too, David, even if you guys had the money, it would be an interesting conversation, too. The urgency may not be there. With the money, there's a little bit of a finite. We're not the money. We can't do that.

And we're not going to stress ourselves out and miss a mortgage payment for ice gain. That's insane. We can't do that. We are adults. She's 14, and we have to make adult, mature decisions in our household and run our household. And then what comes after that is what we have to decide. But we're not going to put ourselves in a financial bind for this. We can't. We won't. And so you draw that line. But even if you have the money, I think what John is saying is interesting, and I know it's so controversial.

Here's the deal. I've got friends that are athletic trainers at universities, and they continue to tell me that they're bringing 18 and 19-year-olds with joint overuse injuries that they see in geriatric populations: shoulders and knees and hips that were not designed to do the same sport day after day, week after week, year after year since someone was a child and all the way up through, their bodies can't handle that, right?

And I don't know, David, what your options are, but my encouragement would be hopefully to be able to find a group to play in, whether it's a wreck, not competition. I mean, I don't know what it is for ice skating, but where she can still do what she loves and enjoy it, but it's just not at this high specific level that is so narrow and intense for 14. If this is my.

House- Inexpensive. -i would sit my son down who's 13, almost here, and I'd walk him through our budget. And then I would say, Here's what it costs for rent. Here's what it costs for electric, water, and.

All that. Food, what we're spending.

And then here's what we got for this. And this is our cat. And then I'm not just going to say it in a vacuum, but I'm going to show him here's what we can afford.

That's right. David, thanks so much for calling. And thank you, America, for listening. John, for always been a great co-host and all the guys in the booth for making the show happen. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I am Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Ramsey personality and bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-eight-825-5225. All right, let's start off with Amanda in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Hey, Amanda, are you guys getting crazy rain down there?

Yeah, that's so crazy. Hi, guys. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for.

Taking my call. Yeah, thanks for that. I literally just saw that on the news. I think it was last night. And it was like you guys are getting flooded and stuff.

It's been wild. I live in Fort Lauderdale, and it happens quite often up here. Actually, all the schools got canceled, but I work in Miami-Dade. I actually have to travel to work today.

Oh, my gosh. Be careful. I hope that we're okay. I'm so sorry.

I'm okay, though. I got through it all. The flooding wasn't too bad getting here.

Okay, good. How can we help?

I am ready to attack my student loans. I have $76,000 in student loans, unfortunately. But I'm ready to attack them. I'm a new listener for you guys, and so I'm ready for that gazile intensity. But I have a car lease sitting in my way. And I wanted your advice today as to how to get out of it. So here's my numbers for you guys. I have the $76,000 in student loans. I have $19,000 in savings. I have 30K and my 401K. I make about $3,700 a month. And I leased a Camry three years ago. It's a $28,000 car. And my lease is up in and I think, about five days, actually.

Oh, wow, it's almost done. Okay.

Yeah. So I have a couple of options here. I can pay the car off with the money that I have in my savings account, but that would pretty much put me almost down to zero and keep the car pretty much for the rest of its life, right?

Which is going to be the rest of your life because cameras go on forever.

Right. That's what I've heard. So I was excited about that. But then my secondary option is to get out of that car and just buy what you guys call a little banger, just something under 10,000. And then the rest of my savings, I go ahead and put that towards my student loans and then keep paying those off.

What's the.

Payoff amount? Yeah, what's the payoff?

It's.

18k. Okay, how much could you sell it for? Do you know if you... Did you, Kelly Blue Booket, see its value?

Yeah, it looks to be worth from $24,000 to $25,000.

Okay.

And you can buy - And I have $11,000 into it.

Yeah, you have $11,000 into it. You could buy it at $18,000. And you like it?

I do. It's a great car.

I think I would buy it. I know. There's a part of me that would just go ahead and just do it because it still has great value. I mean, for what you could sell it for, you could buy... Yeah, I almost would buy it. And then could you turn around and sell it?

I could, yeah, I could. I guess I'd make a little bit of money off of it, and then I can use that to help buy a cheaper car.

You tell me you drive from Fort Lauderdale to Miami-Dade. How far is that drive every day?

Yeah, it's about 35 miles, actually. I'm an athletic trainer in high school. You shouted out an AP earlier. That was awesome.

But- Hold on. I'm right, aren't I?

Yeah. I drive far. It's a 45-minute drive to work and home. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, there's a part. I'm thinking, turn around and sell it, buy it out, sell it. You'll bank 6K, put some of your 19,000 with that, and go get a used Toyota Camry or whatever it may be, because you could actually make some of that money back, which is great.

But I'm also not mad at you. If you go just pay cash just you've driven it, you love it, it works for you, you'll have this car for the next decade if you take care of it. And I wouldn't be mad at that either.

Okay. And then just go after my student loans with, I'm looking into getting another job to really supplement my income to try to tack that 76 because I know it's a big amount.

For one person. One weird thing that I've heard people do when they have a commute like you have is to potentially do Lyft or Uber on the way to work, another way home. I don't know. I don't know if you're working with Uber. You're already driving this 30 miles, and you might get somebody to the airport and back, or you might be able to leave 30 minutes early and end up not adding a lot to your life time-wise, but you can knock out some drives that way.

Yeah, because you're making probably, is it what? Thirty-six, $37,000 a year? Is that what you said? $3,500 a month?

I make $3,700 a month. My pay is weird because I do get stipends twice a year, but I don't really count that into my.

Salary.

Because I don't get it every two weeks.

Right. Okay, so that's your take on pay. So yeah, you're probably at about 45 annually. So yeah, I would up your income, though, Amanda, because you're going to have to attack this 76 pretty aggressively. So if there's things that you can do at night, whether it's something even creative, like what John was saying with Uber, cutting lifestyle-.

I do Saturday and Sunday coaching for these kids who love private lessons for these kids who are going to be NFL stars someday or ice skating stars someday.

I actually am looking into an online professor job because I have my Master's degree.

Perfect.

That'd be incredible.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. Great. Well, we're excited for you, Amanda. I think you have the right gumption in your voice. I feel like we can hear people's tone even in their call, and you can tell the people that I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. So, yeah, that's awesome. Thanks for the call, Amanda. Up next, we have Lloyd and Boise. Hey, Lloyd, welcome to the show.

Hi. So I'm calling in because I'm trying to figure out the best decision to make. Basically, my wife and I were about to pay off our house. We have like 38,000 left on it. And we have enough in the bank. We're just saving to our emergency fund doesn't just tank out basically. So we'll have it paid off in like two or three months, something like that. It's awesome. Once I get the house paid off, I'm trying to look at some options. So my employer, they will do... They have 401K and they have Roth. And both I can do 15 % into, that's a lot. 30 % is a lot to take out of my take-home pay. What we're wanting to do is save for our next house because I don't want to have any more loans, basically. And so I'm thinking it'll take two or three years to come up with 150, basically. So I'm wanting to know, should we invest? I know I want to invest in the retirement account. I don't know if I should invest now, but I'm wondering if I should invest into just a mutual fund that we can then take out two, three years from now.

For the house specifically?

Yeah, for the house specifically, or if we should just put it into savings.

Yeah, if it's going to be that short term, if you're really going to use the money in two years, I think a good high yield savings is a great option just to put it for short term. I don't know if I would put it in the market for just two years. I just feel like it's volatile. The market, you really want to write it out. I mean, you could do a vangard account, that would be in the S&P, like an index fund. But I don't even know if I would do that, Lloyd. For two years, I probably would just let it sit in a high yield.

I'm doing the exact thing, and.

I'm putting high yield. Yeah, so that's what I would do just to give you some options. You're not trying to time the market or something weird. If you need the money and it is a dip and you're having to figure it out, it's just nice just to have the cash. If it was five years or something, four or five years, we could make the talk about something different. But for you guys, if it's 1-2 years, I would just do a high yield savings to save for the next house, which is exciting. Thanks for the call.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. John, this article on… Well, it wasn't an article. It was a lot on Reddit. I'm going to assume it was real. I'm assuming it's real.

Of course. Well, it's on people. Com. Dad on Reddit.

They did. Okay, so they actually probably.

Confirmed that. On my show, we have a segment called Am I the Problem? This is a great Am I the problem? Is this me?

Am I the issue here?

Am I what's wrong here?

Go for it. So a dad and his daughter are no longer speaking after he refused to give her thousands of dollars for her wedding. According to the post on Reddit, the dad, who remains anonymous, shared that his daughter asked him for $200,000 to plan her dream destination wedding in New Zealand.

So that's not thousands of dollars. It's hundreds of.

Thousands of dollars. Not tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. My daughter is getting married and wishes to have a destination wedding, and I told her no. My wife feels like I should do it because we can afford it, but I find it to be pointless showing off wealth. Now my daughter is not speaking to me nor is my wife. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, which got me thinking? Should I bite the bullet and essentially burn the money and my family members to make my daughter's dream wedding a reality? It has over 4,000 comments there on the situation on Reddit. Oh, man.

What do you think? Man.

Okay, the only two % of me that would be like, All right, come on, dad, is if he was a billionaire and it was 0.001 % of it, and he's just like, I don't want to. I would not speak to him. But I would be like, Come on, dad, we got But that is 0.001 % of the population that that would even be him. So I'm assuming that's probably not him. I don't know if a billionaire would be on Reddit talking about this.

Well, but even like... So I think about my kids.

And I'm saying even if you're a billionaire, your daughter should not speak to you because of this either. Of course. But I could see it being frustrating. I'm like, Dad, you have billions of dollars.

But I could even see it the other way where he's saying, If I have a billion dollars, I don't want to flaunt my wealth in the face of my other family members that can't afford to come on this trip. Yes. Can't afford to fly to New Zealand and spend a week.

No, it's insane.

It's insane. Dude, I am team- Team dad. -dad 1,000 %.

Because that means $200,000. $200,000.

You know who the real villain here in this is? The mom. The mom.

I think. Come on, mom.

I think.

And the pretty daughter. Could you imagine not speaking to your dad because he didn't give you $200,000? That's where I'm like, they have to be somewhat level of something, right? They have to have some level of money.

He said I can afford it. But it's a pointless showing of wealth.

This.

Is just me waving a flag around the world that look how rich.

I am. Okay, here, I'm going to continue to play devil's advocate because we all know the common sense response to this is what everyone is thinking. It's nonsense. That's insane. That's insane. Correct. Would it be at all understandable? Again, the whole not speaking thing, I don't like. But would it be weird if he like, Well, it's his money, so I guess he can do it. I'm just saying if he flaunts and he does whatever he wants, and he's like, Nope, not going to help. Could there be frustration if he's like, I'm not going to flaunt my wealth? And she's like, Dad, are you kidding me? Look at you. You have a $200,000 watch on your wrist, and you have a whatever, whatever, whatever. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I get that. But it says down here further, I told her I would pay for the wedding.

I'm not saying this is our situation.

I don't think- But he said, I told her I would pay for it. I never agreed to pay for destination. So it sounds like she came to him and said, Daddy, are you going to pay for my wedding? And he goes, I love you, baby. You got it. And mom was like, Yay. And they got together and they're like, Hey, I know what we could do. Let's go to New Zealand.

Okay, so do you think it's a different story if he says, I'm going to give you a $200,000 budget, and she's like, perfect, I'm going to take that money and go to New Zealand for my destination wedding.

I think at that point she can go.

Wherever she wants. And then he says, no, you can't. That's right.

Yes. That's a different story, if you ask me. Yeah.

And I'm trying to figure out all the scenarios because it's on Reddit. I'm like, how many angles can we find out of.

This story? I think you're being very, very generous.

No, I know. I'm just playing devil's advocate. But man, yeah.

And he says, Tomorrow I'm going to make phone calls and price a wedding in New York. It'd be for about 100 to 200 people. Oh, yeah. Which is still going to be 50 to 75 or 100 grand.

Oh, easy. Oh, yeah, for sure. Still going to be a madhouse. For sure. I guess there are people out there that would not speak to their dad or their parent and his wife because they didn't get what they wanted out of it, right?

Are there other issues? For me, it just all works together. If you're going to ask for a $200,000 destination New Zealand wedding that's going to alienate your friends and family and just be a way to show the world, look at my Instagram photos, that's probably also a family where if you don't get your way, you don't talk to dad. You throw a fit. Your mom goes, Yeah, and she doesn't talk to husband either. And a guy who's trying to do the right thing and be a good steward of resources and also not alienate family.

And friends. Because everyone's going to have to buy plane tickets to go to New Zealand.

That's what he says here.

Yes. It's not like you're paying for everyone to go. You're making them pay an insane amount of money to come. Yeah. Lots of principals here, you all. Lots of principals.

Here's principal number one. Oh, my God. Don't be an idiot.

Don't be. Principle number two. I said that to the daughter and the wife.

Don't be. I'm taking my ball and going home. Come on, dude.

Well, I should try that out on Dave.

You should. Like, Hey, dad.

I'm not going to speak to you.

No, I think it'd be cool if you got him to say like, Hey, he's in on something. Hey, Dave. Me and Winston are struggling. Would you help us out? Sure, Rachel, anything. Okay, cool. Here's what we're struggling on. We're going to do Christmas on the moon, and it's $400,000, and you can for sure afford it.

And if you can't- I'm never talking to you again. -and if you're not going to do that, but I'm done. I'm done. I'm done here.

Just the way you say it, I'm done. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. My father is ridiculous.

I want to come in on a zebra in New Zealand.

So sad. All right, Austin, maybe you can save us and put us back into reality. He can't. Austin from Kansas City, you're up next. Thanks for calling.

Hi, thanks for.

Taking my call. Absolutely. Would you not speak to your parents, Austin, if they refused to give you a $200,000 wedding?

I think I probably would speak to them.

I think that's good. We're on the right track. How can we.

Help Austin? Yeah. So my partner is struggling with some finances, and we're trying our best to get her out of it. She's about $45,000 in student loan debt and has about 6,000 in credit card debt. And we've been chipping away at it, I guess. And we're, one, I guess, wondering the best way to do that. And two, she's in a career that you need to go to a master's degree for. And we're wondering if she should just go into more debt to get the Master's degree, or if she should work a little bit first and get it paid down.

Yeah. What is she doing? What's her career?

It's psychology.

Okay. What does she want to do?

Some probably social work, something that you would be the master's degree, most likely.

Okay. How old are you guys?

I don't think she totally knows yet either. I'm 24, she's 23.

Okay, cool. I would recommend that she get a job as a residence hall director at a university and move in to a residence hall, and they will pay her housing, and they will also pay her room and board or some degree, they'll give her a salary, and they'll get a significant discount on graduate school. And she wants to be a social worker or a mental health professional, she will get to live with a room with a building full of people of all different places from all different walks of life with all different types of challenges. And she will learn what caseload are. She'll learn what going to hospital is. She'll learn what suicidal ideation. She'll learn it all, and they'll pay for it. That's what I would recommend if she was my friend. That's what I tell her to do. Right. Okay. Ta-da! Do not borrow money to go to - Because.

She's going to end up in six figures of debt, Austin, not knowing what she wants to do, possibly working at a job making 45 a year. Making 45 a year. I mean, the ROI doesn't make sense. Don't do it. And the fact that she doesn't know what she wants to do, I wouldn't go get a master's while I'm just buying time and waiting. I would go get real life experience. If she's really serious about it, I would do exactly what John is saying, which may make her very uncomfortable because it's not an ideal in that scenario, right? You're not just living the life you want and do whatever. You're working. You're living a door- It's hard work. Yeah, and you're working. But Austin, too, I would be cautious, maybe a strong word.

Don't pay.

Her dead off if you're not married to her. Yeah, no, don't do that. And also making sure that she's aware of why she's $6,000 in credit card debt and why debt is still an option for her to go into as well. So there's some of these things, and you may want it more for her, Austin, than she wants for herself. So these are conversations you guys just need to have and be thinking about. But no, do not go deeper into debt for a master's degree on something we don't know what we want to do and don't go into that period. So there's some sacrifices there on a situation you can do what John laid out, and that's what we would recommend. Thanks for the call. Welcome back to The Ramsey show. Christmas is... Gosh, it feels like it's almost here. I know we still have Thanksgiving, but it just always feels like Christmas is just sneaking up. It's coming up like so wild. All our decorations are up. Are you?.

Oh, yeah. I love it. The Delanys like to focus on gratitude for... I'm like, I'm out in the world for a minute. Oh, that's nice.

Unlike you guys. You don't want joy and peace. Oh, here we go. Wow.

No, we like to just say thank you to the world before we just like, give me, give me, give me.

And the Dingle Bells.

Do you like Little Drummer Boy? The worst song ever written in history of humanity.

Love it. Yep.

Really? Oh, yeah. I can just see you sitting in front of your fire just going, Pa, rum, pa, pa.

No, no, no. It's not Little Drummer Boy I like. Who Let the Dogs Out? Nope. It's the same with The Little Boy. There's a... Oh, shoot. A Little Boy. Can you hear what I hear? Oh, that's a good sound. Do you hear what I hear? That's what I was thinking. That's a good sound.

Okay, speaking of Christmas- But the song with the main instrument's a snare drum, it's never.

Going to work. Never good.

It's never going to work. Except the James Church, that's how you all roll. All right, so go ahead.

The Ramsey Cash Giveaway is here, which means you can buy as many songs on iTunes as you want if you win one of our $500 weekly prizes or the grand prize of $5,000. So you can enter every single day at ramseysolutions. Com/giveaway. So again, you guys are giving away $500 a week and a grand prize of $5,000. Also, make sure to do your Christmas shopping at ramseysolutions. Com/store because we have a huge $12 sale going on. This is the books, The Total Money Makeover, Baby steps millionaires, Own Your Past and Change Your Future, Love Your Life Not Theirs, Own Your Self on Your Money. There's so much there. And even the questions for human's cards. The Christmas edition is back. It sold out last year, but you can get all these cards as low as $10 right now. So again, any meaningful gift to give this Christmas some gifts, Christmas gift ideas, go to ramselysolutions. Com/store and check out our sale. Up next we have Lucy, over the pond in London, England. She's in.

The sky with diamonds. What's up, Lucy?

Hey, Lucy.

Hi there. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

I am so glad. What time is it over there right now?

It's about 20 to 9:00 PM.

Okay, so it's an evening listen right now for you, Lucy. So glad that you called in. How can we help?

I initially thought I needed guidance on money advice and going to a long and tricky divorce. But I think... And it has been a long time trying to get divorced and arguing and just... Yeah, it's unraveled me. But I think what... I'm sorry, my throat is like... My heart is in a torton.

No, you're good.

But I think what I actually need guidance with is how to have more confidence with decisions to know that however the divorce works for you, I'll be okay. Sure.

Oh, man. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. What are the arguments about?

Oh, gosh, the divorce settlement, well, everythings to do, really. But you told me you wanted a divorce two years ago, and we have been back and forth for two years. We did go through, and I don't know if you have the same thing, mediation?

Sure, yeah.

It's non-legally binding. We went through a process. We came to a decision at the start of the year. We came to a compromise position, and he's overturnedthat now. He wants everything different. He's become quite, well, I've seen a different side to him, very controlling and he would be the lead, it turns out.

Do you have an attorney or a barrister? Do you have somebody representing you right now?

I had a solicitor. I was struggling with the legal costs. It was more than my take on pay. We weren't making any progress. Basically, the advice I had from my solicitor was just like my lawyer, just go to court because what I think we're arguing about the laws on my side more, but I don't know. It's mostly his pensions we're having... He's really frustrated about it. He's been in the military for a long time and he has a very good pension. I followed him around like.

An idiot. Yeah, you gave up your life and you made sure his bills were paid and his clothes were cleaned and his house was done. You were a- My kids were way- Half of that. -you were a co-contributor to that house.

Absolutely. 14 times in 15 years.

My career is in thein the trash.

Of course. Whenever you ask the question, I just need to think about the emotional part of, Am I going to be okay? There's a math problem there. Am I going to be okay financially? Will I be able to pay my bills? It's easy for me to say here, all the way on the other side of the world, in a home right now that has a stable marriage. But I tell the women that I talk to all the time, Please, if you can, don't let a loudmouth goofball on the other side. Let the court work for you as best as it can, okay? You're entitled to that. That's the law of the land. Like you said, you gave up everything to co-create this house with him. A lot of people will file for divorce thinking, Oh, I can just pretend that didn't happen. They imagine their life financially, socially, they imagine their life is the exact same, just you're not in it. That's just not how that works. I would implore you to not walk away from it, but to go to court. I don't exactly know the divorce proceedings in your court system in England, but I would really hope you would do that and take care of yourself, not just the exhausted you right now, but the you five years and 10 years and 20 years from now.

That's number one. Number two, it is surreal to be sitting in a room with somebody or in a building, especially if you're in mediation and they're going back and forth, back and forth.

You.

Created a home together. You all created kids together. You all held each other as you held your newborn. And suddenly this person is going to war against you? Exactly. Here's how I get through those moments. I know my limitations, and my limitations are this. I can't I don't make rational choices when I do that by myself. When I get really emotional, I don't. I always have people that walk alongside me. I even use this language. I outsource that in those moments. I've got a couple of men that I trust that walk with me and I say, Hey, is this a good deal? Because my wife really wants to buy this house. I don't feel good about it. They'll say, John, buy the house. I trust them. Or they'll say, Dude, I love your wife too, but don't buy that house. I trust them. I would tell you, you have people that you pay. You've got professionals that do this. You've got the court system. I would get one or two girlfriends that you can trust that you can say everything to. All the scary things you're feeling, all that stuff. Your body knows you're not doing this alone.

It's not going to make the math problem any easier. It's not going to make the divorce any less surreal, but your body will have a little bit more peace because it knows you're going through this thing not by yourself.

That makes sense.

Is that fair?

Do you have that, Lucy? Do you have some good friends in your life?

I do have some friends. They're not local. I do have friendly people, local, but-.

Do you have a couple of friendly locals that you could say, Hey, I want to take you to coffee or to tea if you're over the pond, and let's go get some tea.

Yeah, a cup.

Of tea. I need someone to walk with me through a really heavy season. Would you be willing to do that for me?

I just feel such a burden. Because it's been going on for so long to be just this emotional wreck all the time. I do have a couple of really good friends.

Hey, listen. I'm going to say this as directly as I can, honey. You are not a bird. Let them love you. Let them love you.

And.

If they don't want to, let them have the opportunity to say, I really don't want to love you like that right now. One of the greatest gifts, one of the greatest honors I feel, and I know Rachel is the same way, is when somebody that we care about and love reaches out and says, Can you help me? Golly, dude. There are a few honors more powerful than that. But reach out and talk to somebody. And yes, I think you got to go to court. You've been messing around on the edges with this for two years. You've been trying to do the right thing, and he has proven that he is not interested in doing the right thing. He's interested in beating you, defeating you. We're done with that. We're going to get the courts involved so we get this thing settled and moved on. You're not a burden, my friend.

Here's the thing about investing advice. You can find it just about anywhere, but that doesn't mean it'll always help you with your personal goals. Here's another option. Check in with a Smart Vester Pro. These financial advisors can review your plan or help create one that's personalized to you. To find a Smart Vester Pro in your area, go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of.

Participating Pros. Learn more.

At ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. So it's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-eight, 825-5225. Up next we have Albert in San Antonio, Texas. Hey, Albert, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me. Absolutely. How can we help?

Yes. My wife retired this last year and I'm probably going to return about another year. And we have about 1.3, 1.4 million in investments.

Nice. Hey, Albert, can you be a hover? Cany speak right into your phone for me?

Yes.

Is that better? Much better. Yeah, thank you.

Okay. My name is Alba, and I was retired last year and I'm only retired about a year. We have about 1.3 in investments. We're debt free, including the house.

Amazing.

Yeah. We've been normal. We had car payments up until about two years ago, two car payments. We did that again and paid off the, that's the only thing where we noticed the cars at the house, so we got rid of that in the last two years. But we're talking to a financial advisor right now to see what's best. We have most of it in four K and some of it, and some of it in a new house and some of it in stock. But he's thinking about just taking all of it and just putting on a Roth IRA and just giving him the full amount. I was wondering if that's a safe idea or is that a good idea? Or should I be more diversified?

Do you guys have a Roth already or just the 401K?

Just the 401K. We're thinking about putting it all to a Roth.

Switching it all to the Roth. What would the tax implications be? Did they tell you?

Because of it- We're going to put it all... We don't have to pay the taxes because we'll pull it out of the 4K and just put it on back to the Roth.

And roll it to the Roth. Right. But when you withdraw, though, and you move it to the Roth, usually if it's not a traditional IRA, there's going to be taxes that's paid.

They usually charge a fee. I know they charge the fee for it, but since we're getting more than a million, they're waiving the fee. They didn't say that we have to pay the taxes.

Okay. This is a lot of money, Albert. And so this is why I'm just cautious of just giving you a two-minute radio answer, because this is you all's retirement that you're talking about here. How did you find your financial advisor? I'm just curious.

It's the same person that a few other people at work use. They've been. It's a large bank.

Here's what I don't like about it. And I'll tell you, when you're talking about diversification, I can't tell if there's one question that is, should I move all of this and begin to do a back to a Roth and roll it that way? That's one question. The other question was, you've got an annuity over here and some stocks over here. I would do my best to get out of those. That isn't the diversification I'm looking for. The diversification would come inside of your retirement funds, right? Those are two different questions. Here's my underlying problem with the person you've picked. They're treating you like you're dumb, and they're saying, Just give me all of your money. I'll take care of it. The reason I don't like that is A, I'm not dumb. I just don't know about this particular thing, and B, I want someone with the heart of a teacher who if they're going to move something or do something, they're going to explain why. So my financial advisor will call me and say, Hey, I want to recommend that we move this particular fund over to this fund, and here's why, and here's the impact on you.

It's your money. It's your call. I'll support whatever you want to do. That's different than, Just give it to me. I'll handle it.

They explained it to me that they're going to risk that it's going to be so many whatever they list and they show me, this is where we're going to put your money at. We're going to put it in 50 % here, 50 % here.

Yeah, but did they tell.

You why? Different mutual funds? Was it mutual funds?

I don't think mutual funds is one of them.

Okay. So what we recommend when it comes to retirement specifically, are four types of mutual funds. So there's aggressive growth, growth and income and international. So what John is saying is that you're right. That inside of that Roth, inside the 401K that you have, the way that your money is divided up is diversifying within different types of mutual funds. And so that's what we teach at Ramsey. So that's why I almost would just recommend, Albert, that if you hang on the line, Austin will pick up and help get you in contact with one of our Smart Vester pros, because I would just want a second opinion on all of this because I-.

Something.

Doesn't smell right. Well, yeah. And you guys then at that point would have to do... Yeah, it would have to be a back to a Roth because of the amount, because you guys don't qualify for a traditional Roth IRA. I don't know if they want to do traditional. And then, I mean, I... Yeah. I honestly, Albert, I just feel comfortable you sitting down with somebody getting a second opinion, because if they're asking for all of this money, I just want to make sure that I have 2-3, to four options that then you and your wife can sit down and look versus just going to this one guy because two other friends you know went to them. So these are big decisions. And again, the tax implications and all of this is really big, too. What pull out, what you roll things over to? Now, if you roll it over to a traditional IRA, at that point, we do tell people to do that when they leave their jobs to move their 401(k) over. I mean, there's different things like that. But again, I would just double-double-check on all of that because I don't want you hit with a huge tax bill and not expecting it.

And by the way, just so people are listening know, Rachel uses a Smart Vista Pro. I use Smart Vista Pro. This is just what we do with our family's money. And so it's not like we all drive Honda, and we're telling you to drive a Toyota. This is what we do with our.

Money, too. Absolutely. Thanks for the call, Albert. Up next, we have Antoinette in Sacramento, California. Welcome to the show.

Hello.

Thank you so much for calling. How can we help?

I, me and my husband are at the end of paying off the remaining of our debt. And I just wanted some advice on how to move forward because we have four homes, and we're friendly banter about which homes should we pay off first, which way should we move. And so I just want to some advice on what you guys think.

Are these homes that you guys just live in? Are they rentals? What are they?

So we have one primary home and three rentals.

And three rentals. Okay. How much is owed on the three rentals?

Okay. So on the first rent law... I mean, get to the math. So my husband came to the marriage. We got married two years ago, so we just got together a year ago and we combined all of our stuff. This is why we're going back and forth about the home. Awesome. Yeah. So on my home that I came into the marriage with, I have 296,000 left on it, and that's here in California.

Okay. How much would that be worth now?

Yes. So my home currently is worth 631,000.

Whoa, nice. Okay.

Yeah. On his home in North Carolina, he has one that's worth 100, sorry, that he owes, or we owe, $198,000 on. And that home currently is worth $298,000. Okay. And then on the second, on the third home in North Carolina also, we owe $135,000 on that one. And that home is currently worth $282,000.

$282. Okay.

Where are you all living?

Are you all in Sacramento?

We're.

Living in Cal, yes. And is that where your house is, the first one that you're talking about?

Yes. And then the home that we bought last year that we're living in right now is also here.

Okay, perfect. Okay. I could probably tell you what I would do. I would sell both in North Carolina. I don't want to be.

A - Can I tell you the ties first? Do what? I have three children. I have one child. He has two children. And both of us... I bought my home for my son for him later, and he bought his two homes, one for each of his daughters. So that's where our emotional ties are. We really.

Don't want to sell our homes. I know, but you can't afford them.

We can't afford them?

No, youtook you didn't buy them. You took out mortgages on them. You wrote a note to the bank. We have the renters living in them. Do what?

The renters are paying for it in its entirety.

A lot of our.

Money goes into the home.

I'm sorry. Go ahead. You have a chance to start this new marriage completely free. No house payment. No payments to anybody in the world. No stress. Let me ask you this. Would you all just decide to buy a rental property in Maryland and manage it that way?

No. And are your kids going to be moving to North Carolina?

His two daughters are in North. They do live in North Carolina, and my son lives in California with us.

Are they staying in those homes?

That when they get older, probably. Okay.

So you're trying to make... Can I tell you? Okay, yeah. Oh, shoot. We're out of time. Okay, here's the thing. Your heart in it is so good, Antoinette. So good. But the way that it's being progressed, you're putting these expectations on your kids that they're going to want this home versus saying, hey, we have $200,000 to help you with your down payment or whatever. Instead of a house, we actually have cash to help you. Maybe you look into something like that versus forcing these homes on them that you guys, to John's point, are continuing to be long distance landlords in. And I don't like it. So I would sell the two in North Carolina. I'd pay off the one in California. You guys ride off into the sunset with some great money and houses and figure out how to help your kids after that. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am bestselling author and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author, Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney.

That's actually how you introduce yourself to people in restaurants.

I do feel weird that I said best selling... I'm introducing myself that way. Sorry, America. Hi. Sorry, America. I could have just said Ramsey personality.

Rachel Cruz. I'm bestselling author. Rachel, can I see.

Your drink menu, please? We'll mix that from the next intro. We're glad that you are here. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-888-25-5225. All right, let's go to the phones. We got Howard in Indianapolis. Hey, Howard, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel. Hey, John. Happy early Thanksgiving there.

Absolutely. Rachel doesn't celebrate it. She goes straight to Christmas, but I accept it.

Because- Howard, do you have Christmas decorations up?

No, but my wife is wanting us to do.

That soon. Pushing the way. I feel you. I feel her.

Double down on gratitude, man.

Great. How can we help?

Yeah, I won't hold you long. So I did the crazy thing. I did Bethel Tech last year, graduated May of this year. I will be starting at Salesforce next week.

Good for you.

So I doubled my income and I will be replacing some of my wife's income.

Yeah, dude.

That's awesome. Thank you. So I'm happy I will have 100K household income. But the caveat, we are January due date.

Oh, congratulations.

You got a lot of change coming in that house. I know. A lot.

Of change.

Yes. That's a lot. So the question is, I'm familiar with the baby steps, but do we pause that on stack cash for the baby? Because one paycheck realistically could take care of all our expenses.

That you know of?

Yes.

Do you guys have any money saved?

Just a $1,000 baby step from the.

Money I'm trying to make sure you're following up with us. Okay. And how much debt do you guys have?

We have right under 65 debt.

Okay. Yeah. So you would be on baby step two. And we do say to pause that specific baby step. If you are in baby steps four, five, and six, you could keep going and keep some money on the side. But as you're paying off debt, that is a place that we would say to pause while you're expecting, which is just another three months. I mean, you guys will be having the baby soon. But I would save some money aside till baby comes and mom's home and baby's home and all is good. And then from there, then you can throw the rest of that money that you guys have saved in these three months at the debt and continue on.

Pay minimums.

Pay minimums on the debt and then stack.

Cash all the extra money.

Exactly. Yes. Stay current on everything. Don't get behind. So pay those minimum payments and then save up that cash. And hopefully you're able to throw some great cash at the 65 and continue down.

And paying.

Off debt. I think we should.

Be able to pay it off within a year and a half.

Good for you. Howard, I'm so proud of you of making a change. I feel like even as an adult, it's hard for people to think through, Oh, my gosh, how can I do something to up my income, even change careers, doing something completely new? I mean, it's a real success story of how you did it with Bethel Tech, which is awesome, and having a degree and going to Salesforce and doubling your income and all of it. It's just incredible.

And whatever spreadsheet you've cranked out for how much your life is going to change financially now that you have a kid, I can just tell you you're off probably by a factor of a hundred. I thought a kid would, like a baby, a newborn, would just go to the bathroom once or twice or three times a day like a normal person. And they don't. They go a thousand times a day, 1,000 times. So you probably have like, I got 60 bucks a month for diapers. That'll get you from 8:00 AM to noon on day one, right? So there's going to expenses like that that, man. And heaven forbid anything happens during the delivery that they got to do an extra this or doing another that or something. So yeah, just having cash is good, man.

Yeah, that's great. Congratulations, Howard. Awesome. I'm so proud of you, man. Stack that cash away, and then, yes, press play on the debt snowball once baby and mom are home. All right, up next we have Katherine in St. Paul. Hey, Katherine, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So my husband and I recently became debt free and we... Thank you. Congratulations. And we have a fully funded emergency fund and we're saving it for a house. My question is we're planning a two week vacation to Italy, hopefully this summer. And my husband just wants to let go of the financial thought for a little bit of it and just let's spend what we spend and have fun. And I'm wondering what is too much to spend.

You called the two right people because I'm a K-O-A guy. I love the K-O-A. And Rachel vacations differently than me. This is going to be fantastic. My gosh.

Okay, Katherine, how much do you guys make a year?

We make just a little over 80, take home. Okay.

And after expenses and stuff, how much have you guys saved for it so far? Or you're starting that process now.

Okay. We just started that process now. We have about 38 set aside because we're trying to save up for a house within the next two years. And then a fully funded emergency fund and 15 % to retirement.

And all of that. Yeah. Do you guys have a house right now? Are you looking to upgrade or buy your first home?

Buy first home.

Okay. So, yeah, so saving up the down payment, how much you guys wanting for the down payment?

Oh, 20 % minimum.

Which would be what for you guys as you're looking at different houses and stuff?

I imagine about 50 to 60. Okay.

Yeah. So you guys probably won't have that for another few years. Is that right?

Since we're at about 30, my husband's income should shoot up. He's graduating school soon.

Oh, good. Okay. Yeah.

I imagine hopefully sooner than then. Okay.

Because the 38, is that just for your emergency fund or is that some of that for the down payment?

No, that's just house.

Oh, I'm sorry. That's just house. So you guys have a separate emergency fund? Mm-hmm. Oh, I got you. Okay, perfect. Yeah. I always hesitate to give specific dollar amounts or percentages when it comes to something like vacation or car because it really is you don't want to go extreme either way, right? Because you guys have done the hard work, you paid off, you're saving up a great down payment. So, yeah, I mean, I... Gosh, I mean...

Two weeks in.

Italy can- I mean, that's a long time. The length of time is long. You guys picked a pretty just inexpensive destination.

How much do you think that's going to cost?

My husband was like, Oh, let's just cap it, make sure we don't spend more than 10K.

No chance. I was about to say 10K in my head. I was like, It's probably going to cost that.

I think it'll cost you to get over there for two weeks in Italy?

Oh, and I should say my husband's military, so housing is like... Sorry, hotels are going to be like next to nothing.

Okay.

So that makes a.

Big dent. Yeah, I mean...

I don't lose sleep over 10,000 bucks if you have that in cash. I don't see how any way you could get that done in Italy for two weeks or 10,000, but maybe that's just me. Yeah.

I mean, I think that that cap sounds right to me with what you guys have, what you're making, what you have saved, and all of that. That feels good. But I hope you can do it. I think you can. You think so? Yeah, I.

Think you can do that. I just don't want to go to Italy and eat Arbies. I want to go to Italy and.

Do it right. Eat a lot of gelado. I'd have a cap, though, Katherine, I think it's smart of what he said. This is The Ramsey Show.

Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the coverage checkup quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at ramseysolutions. Com/checkup. That's ramseysolutions. Com/checkup.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-eight, 825-5225. And if you enjoy The Ramsey show, if you wouldn't mind subscribing, leaving a review, sharing it with your friends, getting the word out to anyone and everyone is always helpful when it comes to spreading this message. And you guys do that a lot for us. So we very much are grateful and appreciate that. But we love your feedback with the reviews. Again, we love you spreading the love and sharing some of these episodes with your friends and your family. All right, up next we have Donald in New York City. Hey, Donald, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call on the first time long time.

Oh, I'm so glad you called in. How can we help?

All right. So I'm going to give you my serve. Well, I'll give you my financial situation. But I recently had someone come about to work today. So I got one of those emails inviting me to come on call and stuff like that. I'm assuming it's the worst going for the tea leaves in my company, but we are doing layoffs right now. So nothing's done right now, but I am preparing for the worst on my end.

Okay. So you got an email. Let me make sure I understood you right. You got an email from your company that you have to come in for a meeting.

Pretty much.

I'm sorry, what?

Yeah, pretty much that. It was with two people that I typically work above.

Okay.

Kind of company structure is worth really that. That way, where I have multiple different managers and stuff.

Like that. Okay, so you're thinking the.

Worst- Can you try to get on my call?

Yeah, I know you're good. You're thinking the worst that you're probably going to be laid off.

Right, exactly.

You.

Don't know, but-.

Sure, it may not be, but that's what you're thinking.

Hey, my mind goes there. If Dave-.

Give me a promotion. I might make a new partner.

At 23 years old. Hey, if Dave texted me at four o'clock and is like, Hey, run by my office, I'm always like, Oh, Graham, this is it. So I'm with you. Yeah, that happens to me, too. All right, so- How can we help? What's your question? Yeah.

Let's see here. In terms of my financial preparation, assuming worst-case scenario, I mean, in terms of my performance at this job right now, I'm not sure if I... If I don't know if I necessarily like it that much. I work at a public accounting company. So that side of things is dreadful in terms of workload and stuff like that. So it could be a potential shift within the next one or two years. But in terms of... But that process could be accelerated as soon as tomorrow. So I was wondering in terms of my financials right now, I'm currently on baby step three and four in terms of my savings. I was wondering how should I go about this process because I do want to move... Because I am open to relocating. Of course, New York is a very high cost of living area. You get taxed.

For sure. Yeah. Okay, so how much money do you have saved?

Right now, in my retirement account, months. I got $40,000 saved.

Good for you.

Okay. Yeah, thank you. And you don't have a big runway, dude. They're going to tell you tomorrow, right?

Yeah. When's the meeting?

Tomorrow.

Oh, sorry.

You have no runway. It's not like in three months I've got this.

Yeah. I think right now you just wait for the meeting, Donald. And if they lay you off, which like you said, you don't even know. So let's say they do lay you off, I don't know if it's immediate termination or- Or severance or whatever you get. Yeah, whatever you get. So then I would use my emergency fund to float through my expenses while I look for a new job. That's why it's there, which is perfect. We use JobLoss all the time as an example, sadly, that's why you have an emergency fund. So you have 40 grand saved, which is amazing. And then you may look for another job, hopefully get one in the next 30, 60 days, 90 days, and then start back and replenish the emergency fund and then start retirement investing from there. But if they don't lay you off, you're saying that you may not even enjoy the job completely. Is that right?

That's right. Okay.

So if that's the case, then maybe you're looking for a career shift in a little bit. But you're 23. Is this your first full-time job? This is my.

First job, I have two, yes. Yeah.

There's maybe a level two with accounting that you pay your dues and you got to do the grunt work first before you're going to be promoted and do the thing you really want to do. There's a reality to that to work. Absolutely, yes. But also you don't want to hate your job and all of that either. So I think that there's a balance there and understanding you're going to have to do things in your job that you don't enjoy. But also you want to make sure you're in an industry and around people that you enjoy the company and you enjoy what you do because you work a lot of hours of your life there. And so Ken Coleman, one of our rims and rims, he does a great job when it comes to talking about your purpose. And he has an assessment. Why am I blanking on the name of the assessment?

It's a career assessment.

The career assessment. Is that what it's called? The career assessment? Yeah. Okay, I was going to say it's about your career. So if you hold on the line, Donald Austin's... Oh, yeah, the get clear assessment, that's what it is, Austin is going to pick up. And I want to give you an access code to that take for free, because I think that could give you maybe even some other direction and to see what your skills are, what you enjoy your passions. Because I think the earlier you find that, and things will shift in your life, but the earlier you can find some direction and encouragement, and maybe it's just confirmation that it is accounting and that you're in the right spot and you may just be looking for a different firm to work for or whatnot. But as far as the job loss goes, I wouldn't panic because it hasn't happened. But if it happens, it's going to happen. Hopefully, you'll get some severance, and you look for a new job, and that's how the world goes round. That's what happens.

Let's think through this, though, practically for people listening who are going to find themselves in this situation. And unfortunately, we're in Q4 and companies want to make their end-of-year numbers. They just lay off a bunch of people so they can waive their magic papers in front of Wall Street and say, Look how great we're doing. You get an email or a text message or something, or, Hey, we need to meet with you tomorrow, and you know the company is doing layoffs. Immediately, your body goes to fight or flight as it should. If it doesn't, you probably need to go see somebody ASAP. So feel it. Put your hand in your chest and feel your body trying to take care of you. Then the next thing, get a yellow pad, a word document, a spreadsheet, whatever you want to do, and literally type up a column, make a column. What can I control right now? And what can I not control? You're going to find real quick that you can control what you have for dinner. You can control if you go on a drinking binge or not, you can control if, Hey, I know this is coming, I'm going to go ahead and send out three.

I'm just going to send out three applications right now just to get them out. I can control that. I can go hang out with my friends. What you can't control is whether I fire you tomorrow. You can control the time you go to bed, even if you lay there all night and toss and turn. There's something of powerful about, All right, this is what I can do. That's it. I'm not going to spiral and spiral and spiral. By the way, if you don't have $40,000, it's going to be a long, long, long night. It just is because your body is going to know that its fate is decided tomorrow. What you'll find tomorrow is the sun will come up, and you'll get some difficult, challenging news if they lay you off, and you're going to be heartbroken and devastated and all that. Then the sun's going to come up the next day, and you have a choice to make. Am I going to make my full-time job getting a new job, or am I going to just sit here and be upset? So what can I control? What can I not? Let's call some friends, and let's see what happens tomorrow.

Hey, I am interested about this. So, Donald, do send us a note and let us know if you made the cut or if you're going to be looking for a.

New job. Yeah, for sure. Because there is a reality to that, right? I don't want to downplay what happened, but also I've learned, because this can be me, I can take a scenario, and I go to the nth degree, and I play the story in my head. I get anxious. I did all the things, and it wasn't even a reality. It wasn't even what I thought.

That literally happened a few weeks ago. Dave was like, Hey, I need to talk to you.

At four. You didn't think you were getting fired, John. I know you worry about that a lot. We worry about John sometimes.

My body went to... This has to be bad. Right. My default is I start cranking up imaginary stories. Yes. He says this, and I just start going down the road. It was literally I was driving, and I started laughing out loud. By the way, this is 10 years of me working on this, so it's not just an overnight fix. I started laughing, and I said out loud, Nothing you're doing is going to help that meeting. Then I texted three people, two of which responded, Oh, this has nothing to do with you. It has something to do with something else. It was, What control? I could ask, Hey, does anybody know what this meeting is about? Yeah, for sure.

It's not you. Help me out. Yeah. It was all good. Totally. Yes.

And then I want to bell on about my day.

I know. Sometimes hard things do happen in these meetings, and you got to face the reality, just like what John was explaining earlier, which I think is great. And then sometimes you guys, we're all crazy people in our heads and you create stories of reality that is not even reality. We sit there and twist and turn and freak out. We ruin our nights. -and freak out and it's not even a thing. So also have that dose in the back of your head. It's a balancing act. But thank you, Donald, for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

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So one part about winning with money that is super crucial to having a plan and having some tactical things in place is a budget. Our every dollar app is the best on the planet when it comes to budgeting. It's the one I use and my husband, Winston, we share an account there. And I track transactions this afternoon before the show. And we keep up really with every single thing. We just were on a trip in New York and we were getting our transactions from New York. And I have a New York line item in our budget this month, and we just drop it into that category. And it's just helpful to know what is going on. So if you've not checked out Every Dollar, make sure to go to everydollar. Com. Check out that app, too. There's a free version you can download in the App Store. But also we have an Every dollar webinar. And if you go to everydollar. Com/budgeting, Jade, Warshaw, myself, and George Camel have been doing separate webinars walking you guys through how to budget, the importance of it, this topic in general, and then walking you through some of the every dollar features, every dollar premium because it has paycheck planning, bank connectivity, a bunch of different stuff to really help you get this in a process and in a habit in your life when it comes to budgeting.

So again, go to everydollar. Com/budgeting to check that out. I think I have a webinar coming up, I think, on the 20th. I think next week I'll be doing one. So make sure to sign up and join us there. All right, up next we have Faith in Louisville. Louisville.

Because you got to.

Have faith. We're going to say Louisville. Faith, welcome to the show. Louisville. We got it. We got it.

Love it. So my husband and I just started The Debt Snowball. And I'm a teacher and he works for Kentucky Fish and Wildlife. And in The Debt Snowball, student loans are supposed to be included, but ours will be forgiven in seven years through public service loan forgiveness. I was curious if we use that as part of the debt snowball or if we just continue to pay the minimum payment until we reach seven years.

Who's going to be the President in seven years?

Oh, my God, no.

Yeah. I wouldn't trust the government on anything when it comes to the subject faith. I think it's you guys that will be paying your.

Student loans off. I was a Dean of Students at a law school, and I had some of the most brilliant young minds who did not go into private law practice to where they can make a gillion dollars because they want to serve their communities, and because the government said they would pay their loans off after 10 years of public service. And for many, many, many of them, that did not happen.

I have a follow-up question then. Okay. So we have a pretty good savings right now, and we have about 5,000 savings, and that could pay a lot of one of our credit cards off. And so me and my husband are just so scared to let go of that 4,000 as part of the debt snowball. But I think I know the answer to your question is, I think I know what you are going to say, is put 4,000 towards debt keep 1,000.

You got to have faith. Faith.

Faith. What's all your debt? You have how much in credit card debt?

We have 92,000 total in debt.

Okay.

68 of that is student loans between me and my husband, that's ours.

Okay.

And then 18 of that is our vehicle payment. We only have one vehicle payment. And then 1,400 is medical debt, and then 5,000 is credit card debt. Okay.

What cause the credit card debt? Just lifestyle? College. Okay. How much you guys make a year?

We make about $6,200 a month after taxes.

Okay. Okay. So you guys have kids?

Yes, we have a three-year-old.

Little girl. Three-year-old. Okay, sweet. Yeah, Faith, you got a lot to tackle here. And I know you know that because you're aware, and it will scare you, yes, of going down. But I would pay that medical debt off today. Go ahead and knock that out. I mean, it was $1,400, right? Is what you said? Correct. Yeah. I would just get that out of the way, because what that's going to do is going to be like, Oh, okay, there's one gone. There's one gone. It's this mind game that you're going to play with yourself with this, that snowball, that actually works. This is what creates the behavior change because I need you guys to have some quick wins. You guys are new to this process. I'm so thankful that you're actually facing this head-on and tackling this stuff, but I want you to feel that quick win. So I do. I want you to pay that off. Yeah. And then, Faith, you're exactly right. I am going to tell you to put the rest to start knocking out this credit card debt. This $5,000 will be the next one that you're tackling. And that sense of urgency, because the $1,000, it's really not meant to be there to be enough for everything, okay?

And we have this safety net that we want to feel, which we understand. That's why we put a large emergency fund after paying off debt. So it's going to feel uncomfortable. You're not supposed to say, Oh, my gosh, a $1,000 is fine. Now, some people, they don't have even that, and they're having to save that for their first steps. You guys at least have that. And that's for all the anklebiter stuff. But then if something big happens, then you're going to pause it at Snowball, save up money for if the heating and air goes out, I mean, something insane. But usually stuff is not due right away if it's a big emergency. So you're going to pause at Snowball if something comes up that you need more cash for, you're going to save for that, and then you're going to press play back on the Dutch Snowball and continue this process. But yes, I would recommend going down to $1,000. And then, Faith, for a season, because of what you guys make, considering your debt, it's going to be hard to make a dent in this 92,000. Again, considering you guys probably bring, it's probably a $70, $72,000 combined income.

So you guys need to get your income up. You really need to. So I don't know that's through side hustles. I don't know if that's looking at a job change, but I know it's a big ask in your season with a three-year-old, but you guys got to figure out something for a season to get that income up, because it's going to be a longer process if you don't just because of your numbers. Yeah, I hope that helps. I know it can feel deflating sometimes when you're looking at numbers like that. But you guys, and you're a teacher, which I thank you so much. I mean, so thankful for you and your work. But I don't know if there's tutoring on the side you can do. I don't know if your husband looks at a job change for a season, a period of time, or just bringing on that extra income. But something needs to be up there because even your expenses, I don't think there's probably a ton of expenses to cut. Louisville, thankfully, is not New York City or Miami or something like that, where the standard of living is that much higher. But still, it's expensive.

Life is expensive. I get that. So where you can cut expenses, I would do that. But if you hold on the line, Austin is going to pick up. And I want to give you guys Financial Peace University. This is our nine-lesson course. And I would love for you and your husband to sit down and watch these lessons and really buckle down. So I think what it'll do, it'll affirm what you're already feeling about this change and what you want to do. Maybe you'll learn some new stuff that's also a hope that's in there. But again, to solidify you guys in this process because it's not going to be easy. It's going to be a marathon.

And if he's allowed to give your husband's info to Austin on the line, and if he can do a guided hunt and fishing for me and my son, I love to hire him because I'll just drive up to Kentucky. That would be a blast. So I'll hook him up. That would be a side hustle. I don't know if GameWard is allowed to do that, but that'd be fantastic.

It'd be so perfect. So perfect. Oh, well, thanks, Faith. Thanks for calling. Yeah, I think that this is where the tough reality meets the road when it comes to your money, you guys, is that, especially when you look at numbers like theirs, they're a great example. This is what a lot of people are facing, where you basically have more debt than you have income, and it can feel very overwhelming. And that's where a plan and a timeline for me, John always says it, but it's true, facts are your friends. And so as much facts as you can get around this because your emotions possibly may be all over the map. But if you can do a timeline and say, okay, we got to back out. What do we have to do to be out of debt in four years? What are the things we have to do? How many hours extra do we have to work a week? You start putting an actual plan around this. So it's not this idea floating around in your head, because sometimes for me, that's where the fear can start to magnify. If it's just this idea, and it sounds so scary, and I'm looking at numbers.

I'm like, Oh, my gosh, how is this going to happen? But as detailed as a planned faith that you can do, I think is key.

It's also important that we blow over this sometimes. You and your husband, I want you all to spend a weekend just being sad because you have a three-year-old and he's doing public service. You're doing public service. The idea is you all went to college, you do what you're told. You're public servants. You are helping out your community. You should be able to have a house and a car, two cars, and you found yourself in a hole. And so be sad for a weekend. We wanted this to look like this, and it's not going to right now. We're going to have to do a ton of hard, hard work. But those days will come if you put your foot on the gas. You got this.

Our scripture of the day comes from James 1:4. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking in anything. And Maya Angelou says, Nothing will work unless you do. That was a great quote. Nothing will work unless you do. You got to do it. Which is amazing. I feel like sometimes we want a magic fairy to come in and just fix it all. Be healthy emotionally, get a raise at work, do all the things for us. It doesn't always happen. We sometimes have to put in that work.

Yeah, I was at Hormozy the other day, Alex said, Your success is found in the work you are avoiding. Just start doing it.

That's right. That's right. So, so good. All right, up next we have Kyle in Minneapolis. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hello. How can we help?

I recently just started a new job. I'm not making too much money. I think I'm making $13.50. Okay. I started two weeks ago, and I was searching for other jobs too, and I got another job offer that offered me $18.

Okay.

The thing is that my boyfriend is completely unsupportive about me moving to this other job. I'm torn between staying at this job, making him happy versus going to this other job and causing some conflict in our relationship.

Okay. What are you doing now for a job?

I'm currently at fleet farm. I just do stalking.

Okay. And what's the new job?

It would be in a factory doing paint prep.

Okay. And why is he unsupportive of that?

I think he has a lot of history of other people cheating on him. This new job would be working mainly with men. I think he's an insecurity thing.

Okay, how old are you guys?

I'm 20. He's 19.

Okay. How long have you guys been dating?

About eight months.

Okay. Do you think anything heading to the official conversation? Do you think that is he it or are you guys just dating?

What was that?

Is he your husband? Do you think like, okay, yeah, he's probably who I'm going to end up with? Or do you think, no, we're just dating and we're going to see what happens?

No, we've done a lot of talking. That's the end goal is to obviously get married in a good place.

Okay. So the fact that it's that serious in a relationship, Kyle, does raise a lot of red flags for me in his insecurity. I mean, if he's been cheated, John is that relationship expert. I'm let him jump in on most of this.

I'm.

Dying, man. If he's... You go. You go. Why am I to go, John?

No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Well, what I was going to say is, yeah, I understand that he's like, Oh, man, I don't want this to happen again because what I went through sucks and it hurts. But all that fact that he's putting all of that on you, and it's completely out of jealousy and insecurity, Kylee, that's a problem.

There are more red flags here than at the Red Flag factory, where they make red flags. Yeah, dude, think about what he's telling you. Hey, I don't want you to improve your life financially because I will be uncomfortable.

Right.

I'm going to attach my lack of trust and my lack of belief in myself and my lack of own personal security. I'm going to make you carry that around to the tune of $5 an hour. That's how little I think of you and your trustworthiness.

Okay.

If you were my sister, I would tell you to listen to what the great Jay Z says, and that is to brush your shoulders off and.

Roll out. And here's the problem, Kyle. So sweeping it under the rug isn't going to fix it. So what does that mean? When you actually present to him that, no, this is a better job for me, and I'm going to move forward. How he responds to that, Kyle, says a lot about who he is. Okay? Yeah. We're going to be your big siblings. I'm going to be your big sister, John. I'll be your big brother in this. And why I asked how serious the relationship is because I'm like, I just want you to be very aware and go in to... I don't want you to make a decision, a lifelong decision of something like marriage when there's conversations like this happening. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Absolutely. And by the way, he's 18. How many people have cheated on him? Between 14 and 18. Good grief.

I guess he's had two girlfriends before me, and they both cheated on him with the same guy.

The dude. Now you could make this super interesting if that guy works at the factory. Please tell me that's true. Desie? Desie?

Right. Desie?

No, not at all. We live about an hour and a.

Half away from each other. I was going to start chanting, Jerry, Jerry. That would have been awesome. That would have been awesome. But listen, if he had the courage, let me try to see both sides of this. If he had the courage to tell you, Hey, I've been cheated on twice. The fact that you're going to be working, you're going to be the only woman on the floor at this factory. Guys are going to be treating you like crap. You're going to be catcalling. They're just going to be all like, I know how those dudes are. Makes me super uncomfortable. I want to say good for him for speaking out loud. That needs to be followed with. But I trust you. If you tell me you can't do this $18 an hour job, even though it would be amazing for you and eventually, when we get married me too, and you say I can't be around these people, I'll be right there to help you get your stuff out of there. And if you tell me, no, this is incredible. I'm learning some great stuff. I've got a leadership track here. I'm going to start $18 an hour.

I'm going to stay on. I'll be at $25 an hour in a year and a half. Awesome. But you see, vulnerability is part of it, and so is trust, and you got to have both of those things.

Right, yeah. I think that's... You did express those basically how you did, and it's just really the trust part.

But listen, Rachel and I, we just talked to a lot of couples, and here's what happens. If you don't attune to that red flag, this next is you get pregnant, and he says, Yeah, the mother of my kid doesn't do X, Y, and Z.

And to make him happy, I'll just listen and do it. Oh, okay. Which that gets so dangerous so fast. You see what I'm saying? For who you are, Kyle, on your end. So learning to work through this could be either an eye-opening moment for you, Kyle, to be like, This doesn't feel great anymore. I don't know how to feel about this. Or you push in, and it's a great moment of saying, Okay, this is some conflict, and he's telling me this stuff, and I'm speaking up, and we're actually going to work through this problem together. And it actually strengthens you guys, and you guys become healthier. But please don't just sweep it under the rug and do it because it's good for him and this is what he wants. It's not going to be healthy. It doesn't turn into anything healthy. Healthy for you or healthy for your relationship or possible future marriage. Nothing good comes out of that, Kyle, okay?

Okay. You know that I looked at the place. I really haven't mentioned that I wanted to wait because we were so far away from each other to talk to him in person. We would have rather than over text or over the phone.

You all live in the same community?

No, he lives about an hour and a half away.

We see each other every weekend. Playing boyfriend and girlfriend on the internet.

We see each other every weekend for about four days.

Well.

I wouldn't change my career around him. Let me just say that. Not yet. You go, Kyle. You go. Do what you need to do. And how he responds is going to say a lot about who he is and who you're going to decide to be in a.

Relationship with. And look him in the eye and say, I won't.

Cheat on you. And just know, you guys are 19 and 20, and I never want to belittle people because of their age. But also know you guys are figuring out life. And this is a really good moment for you, Kyle, to start practicing what it looks like for what Kyle needs. And what does Kyle need? Kyle needs a freaking $5 hour raise. It's huge.

It's great. It's humongous. And Kyle needs to learn that it's not your job to make sure everybody else in the world that their needs get taken care of before yours. Okay? You have to be able to say, Here's what I need. Right now you're looking at like, I need groceries. I'm going to meet that need and look at my eyes and.

Say, I want you to- And you're doing nothing wrong by taking this job either. No. If you were doing something immoral, sure. But there's nothing immoral about this. You're doing great.

God help you. Don't cheat on him with that other guy because that's going to be a whole different phone call.

Yeah, for his sake and sanity, don't do that. All right. Well, thanks, John, for another great hour. Thank you, America, for listening. Thanks, Todd. All the guys in the booth, this is The Ramsey Show.

If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on The Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization. One episode could change your business. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.