Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. You can give us a call. The number is triple-eight-eight-two-five, five-two-two-five. I'm Jade Warshaugh and I'm joined by bestselling author, Rachel Cruz. I know we've talked about this, Rachel, but I haven't gotten to talk about your book that just came out. I'm glad for what I have.

Thank you. Yes, it launched this week, my new children's book, my first one ever. And it's doing great.

It's.

So cute. I love it. It's been so fun. It was a fun process. And hopefully that message of contentment can be all through our households.

With us with Little Kids. I'll be reading it to my kids for sure. So give us a call today. We'll take calls about your life and your money. And if you're interested in getting this book, you can pick it up where, Rachel?

Ramseysolutions. Com/store or anywhere.

Books are sold. That's right. Love that. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Stacey from Manchester, New Hampshire. What's going on, Stacey?

Hi. It's nice to talk to you guys. I'm actually looking for what I'm calling a Ramsey rebuttal. My husband and I are about to... We're very close to paying off our house. We have about 15,000 left. My parents are always advising us not to pay off our house because they tell us if anything happens and if somebody sued us, then they can take our home from us. It's not going to deter me from paying off the house, but I'd like something really smart that I can say to prove her wrong or.

Something if I can. Well, you have homeowners insurance.

Yes, we do.

Who does she think is going to sue you and take your house? Who is she concerned about?

I don't know. My parents are very much... They think that people are very too happy. And they are. They're not wrong.

But- What's your net worth?

-very too happy and stuff. What's our net worth?

I'm trying to figure out if you have a target on your back is what I'm asking.

No, definitely not. Definitely not. I think we make 92,000 after taxes, and our net worth is probably about 200,000. We're at the beginning of everything.

I'm just confused, Stacey. Do they have something that happened to them or someone they know that taking someone's house, I mean, getting sued in general is a thing, sure. But they could still take equity. With that logic, that means you wouldn't try to pay on anything and have no assets at all because afraid someone's going to take the asset.

That's no way to live. Right.

Yeah, I know. That's what I said. I'm like, Okay, well, I'm not going to stay in debt forever just because of something that might happen, because there's a lot of things that might happen. But I was like, I'm just going to get somebody else's viewpoint on this, because like I said, it's not going to deter us. We're going to turn it off because I don't want to own anybody money anymore.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and a good umbrella policy will usually cover things. Like if someone falls on your property and tries to sue you or something, you know what I mean? Like Jade said, there's insurances and things to be put in place to protect you guys from something like that. But I'm also concerned about how much they're speaking into this. It's very interesting that they... Do you guys talk a lot about money with them?

I talk a lot about money with anybody who will.

Listen, really. Yeah, that's fair.

It's my favorite topic, and I'm just excited about how we're just moving along with things financially. Totally. But my dad was a contractor his whole life, and I think that there were a couple of times where people turned around and maybe tried to sue him. It's probably like.

They were lying about things. But I'm sure he was licensed and insured. He was licensed and insured, and if something came, that's what that's there for, right?

Yeah, exactly. I think this is all out of fear on.

Their behalf.

Oh, for sure. For us. It's fine. They're my parents. But I was like, I feel like I could get a more expert opinion on this because me just being like, No, mom, don't be weird, is.

Probably not as. I mean, at the end of the day, I love what Rachel said because it's true. If you go through life like that, then you're never going to have any assets because you're just worried that someone could take them away from you. And in this case, typically, Rachel, I think we do umbrella insurance once you get to half a million net worth, and then from there on, you could... I mean, if you don't have a policy, I think you're fine. Once you hit 500,000 in net worth, you can pull one out and you can tell your parents, Hey, you can sleep at night now. I'm fully protected in case someone wants to fall down my stairs. But I think honestly, at this point, you're just fine. You're 100 % fine. There's no target on your back. And at the end of the day, if someone wants to sue you, they can sue you, and you would go through that process. And if you were at fault, you were at fault, and if you weren't, you weren't. So this is a whole what-if conversation that's really hard to just speak about because nothing's actually happened.

Yeah, exactly. And it's that relational tension, too, Stacey, of going against something your parents obviously have voiced so strongly against. And I think anytime as an adult still, if you have a relationship with your parents at any level, it is that weird feeling of like, Oh, my gosh, and I had to learn God love my parents. They're wonderful. But even certain things, I'm like, I had to learn I can't control them. It's not my job to change their mind about X, Y, and Z. And so really living in that freedom of like, Stacey, you're deciding this for your life, and being so comfortable with that, which I know you guys are because you said we're still going forward to pay off the house. But I do acknowledge just always that it's an odd thing to be doing something that your parents, quote-unquote, don't agree with or discourage or something. But I'm proud of you guys for still going forward and wanting just some facts. But yeah, you probably won't change their mind even with an umbrella policy answer. And I think that's where you have to just let it go. I agree.

Thank you for the call, Stacey. That was an interesting thing to talk about. Well, let's see if we can pop into New York right quick and see what Donna is talking about. Donna from New York, what's going on?

Hi there. So I have a situation. I recently was approved for a HLAC, a home equity line of credits through the same bank that I have my mortgage through. And they gave me an introductory rate for only six months of 6.99 %. But then after the six months, it goes up to 9.79 %.

No. It's a justable rate. Yeah, it's a heat lock. Terrible idea, Donna, why are you taking on heat lock?

For several reasons. So I have about 60,000 in credit card debt, 40 of that is legal fees. I have a crazy family situation unfolding. So about 40,000 in legal fees, 20,000 in just regular credit card debt. Okay. And I want to do some home improvements. And then also I was thinking about getting maybe one or two income properties.

Okay, Donna, how much do you make a year? $125,000. Okay, Donna, do not take this heat lock out. Don't take this out. Okay, you don't need to be doing home improvements right now. You have $60,000 in credit card debt that you, Donna, with your income can clean up. A heat lock doesn't change that. It actually puts you deeper in a debt hole because of that. And then you're going to be taking out more than what you need for this to do home improvements and all of it. You need to slow down, Donna. Do not take this heat lock out. It's not going to be worth it. And it's an adjustable rate. You're going to get terrible rates of return, and then you're stuck in it, and you got to pay it off if you ever want to sell the primary property. So heat locks are a terrible idea, Donna. I would suggest to start paying off the set. If you hold on the line, Donna, I would love to give you Financial Peace University. This is our 9 lesson course on money. And it's going to give you the basics of understanding how money works and specifically with debt.

And debt is a hard one to tackle because the way the world does debt- Absolutely. -is not a good plan. And so I want you to watch these videos, take this information in, and follow that plan, not the Keylock plan. Thanks for calling.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz. Give us a call. The number is triple-8825-5225. We will take your calls about whatever it is you want to talk about as long as it is related to your life, your money. In this case, tell us about your relationships. We can talk about parenting a little bit. We can talk about girl math. It's a very real thing. I know it's a very real thing. It's a very real thing. But give us a call. We'd love to talk to you. In the meantime, we'll go to Miami. We've got Caitlin in Miami, Florida. That's my neck of the woods. What's going on, Caitlin?

Hey, Jade. Hey, Rachel. Oh, my gosh, my friend would be so jealous because he has such a big crush on you, Jade. It's ridiculous. What? I'm so sorry.

That's so funny.

Okay, cool. Let's cut to the chase. Okay, so I have a car loan of $4,629 left on that.

I.

Have student loans of $5,420 left. Okay. And then I have a credit card for $39.49. I have a monthly subscription for. I'm moving in May to North Florida.

Okay.

And I don't know what to do as far as how to pay this and also save to move because I'm new as far as actually following the baby steps and stuff. So yeah.

So what's causing you to move to North Florida?

My brother and his family there. I'm a single mom and my son's dad isn't in his life. And so I have a strong male role model for him and my brother is that.

So just to be closer to family and whatnot. Okay, do you already have a job in North Florida when you get there?

I've been working from home for my.

Current job. Okay, got it. Okay, so what's your current income? At the end of the day, this is just a dollars and cents equation. So what's your current income?

Around 50.

Okay. Are you currently on a budget at all? It seems like you know your numbers pretty well, so I'm just wondering.

I just wanted to be prepared to waste your time on here. I just started the every dollar. Good. And I just noticed I've been spending stupid, like going out to and stuff, and so I'm trying to actually... I just don't know if I should focus on paying extra for my car and or if I should just save.

For my things. Do you have any money saved, Kaitlin? Do you have any money that's not tied up in retirement or anything, just in savings?

No. Okay.

And how much is the move going to be? Have you run any numbers when it comes to that?

No, but I'm guessing after signing a lease and stuff, it'd probably be like $3,000 to $6,000. Okay.

So in this case, what I would do is you could approach this in one to two ways. You said you're moving in six months.

Yeah.

In one way, you could approach it as a storm mode where you're just stacking up as much money as possible, and then move, you get there, everything's calm, everything's good, and then you start hitting the baby steps because you have no money saved. The other side of this, though, is, and here's where the side of the coin that I land is, it doesn't sound like this is an urgent move, and it doesn't sound like it's something that must happen in six months. It sounds like it's something you want to do. And if it were me, I'd probably get this debt cleaned up first, and then I'd feel the freedom to move, save up for that cost, and do that in a much more peaceful, less under-the-gun feeling. What do you think about that?

I would agree. That would be my first choice, but my lease ends in May.

Okay. Will it be cheap?

Will.

Your- toyears. And from just like a standard living premise, will it be cheaper, I'm assuming, in North Florida than Miami?

Yeah, much cheaper. Yeah, much cheaper there. I'd probably save a thousand in rent.

That's great. Yeah. So I am, Eilidh, on Jade's side of this, Kaitlin. Not that you have to pause moving necessarily. But in these six months, I want you to gain some traction because you're starting to feel that level of like, Oh, my gosh, I've been out of control. And now you're seeing the numbers with every dollar in the budget. You're like, Oh, I am. I am. I've been sending. So you have some really positive momentum in this direction of getting control of your money. And I want to keep that going. And so if I were you, Kaitlin, I would have the goal to try to pay off, well, the $39, just do that instead of going to Chick-fil-A tonight with your kids, right? Just pay that off right now, get that knocked out. And then I would try to work to pay off the car and then have a little bit of a nest egg for that move. And I would do that move as cheaply as possible because it's just you and your son, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, which is great. And so I would, Kaitlin, I would be motivated to do it as absolute cheap as possible to get up there.

And then when you're up there, you're going to be saving money on rent and all of that, and you'll be able to knock out the student loan. Because honestly, Kaitlin, you have $10,000 in debt. And I know that probably it feels overwhelming maybe to you, but Jade and I, as we sit here on this side of the table, we take calls all the time of people that are in far worse situations with debt. So my belief and hoping you, Kaitlin, that you can pay this off is so great. It is so great. And if you can find a way to do some extra side work at night, maybe from home, work extra, Jade always talks about getting your income up and all that, you can actually do a couple of these things, turn some knobs, and you're going to see real quick progress, Kaitlin. I really do believe that.

There's also another thing. If you were interested in paying off all this debt before you moved, you could check with your landlord and say, Hey, I know my lease expires in May. Is there any way that I can do a couple or more months, just month to month, because here's my goal, and maybe just talk to them and find out. And in these situations, I want to get as much information as possible so I know what all my options are, and then you can really make the best decision for you. If he says no, look, in May, that's it. You're out, then do what Rachel said, and it's like try to pay off as much as you can, stack up some money, do this move on the cheap. But you might have more options than you know you just haven't asked yet. So it's worth it to... That's what I would do.

Yeah, for sure.

We're all right. Yeah, I know that's great. I actually didn't even think of that, so thank you, guys.

Yeah, especially if you've been there for a long time. If you've been a tenant there for a long time, you're trustworthy, you've always paid your rent on time. If it's me, there's no reason why I wouldn't grant the favor because you're a good renter, and I'd want to keep that person as long as possible, especially if you came in and then said, Hey, if I can have three or four months to month after May, and when I leave, I have the perfect tenant for you, that's great. That's a great deal. That's what I would do.

Yeah. And, Kaitlin, and remember your number one goal... Well, if I were you, I'd pay the $39 credit card and close it today. That's right. So I just get that out of the way. But besides that, making sure you have that $1,000 emergency fund. That's going to be the very first step. And, Kaitlin, for you and your confidence, even doing that, getting a $1,000 saved on the side, going from a hundred to a thousand where you are, I think that's going to give you that peace of mind and that level of control of like, Okay, I know my plan, and it's working. And it's working. So I'm excited for you, Kaitlin. I think you're going to do awesome. And just a shout out to all the single parents out there. When you're it in every aspect of life and then you're taking care of a kid in the middle of it, too, I'm like, it's a lot. Your mind is all over the place. So there's a little bit of that. Of course, you would be where you are, right? So there's no shame or embarrassment in that.

But the power is saying- It makes a lot of sense wanting to be by family.

Yes, for sure.

I get that. I love it, especially family. It's the Christmas season. This is my segue. It wasn't a great one, but here we are, getting meaningful gifts for Christmas during our $12 sale. This is what's in front of me right now, guys. Here at Ramsey Solutions, every year we do this amazing $12 Christmas sale, and you can shop for best selling books like The Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, even books like Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and they're just $12. I think that's great. Questions for humans conversation cards are as low as $10 right now. Plus, the popular questions for humans Christmas edition book is back. These sold out quick last year. Wow, I can't read. There's a meaningful gift for everyone on your list, so check out that sale today. You go to ramseysolutions. Com, slash, store, and you'll be able to find the gifts you are looking for for just $12. That's ramseysolutions. Com slash, store. That's exciting. That's why I'll be doing some of my Christmas shopping. You can count on that. It's good. Awesome. This is The Ramsey Show.

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What's going on, guys? You're listening to The Ramsey show. Give us a call. The number is triple-88825, 5225, and we will chop it up with you. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz. Let's check out our neighborly question of the day. It says today's question of the day is sponsored by neighborly, your hub for home services. When was the last time you thought about your dryer vent? Clogged dryer vents are the cause of thousands of dollars of house fires every year. So let the experts at Dryerventwizard clean yours. Visit neighborly. Com/ramsey to schedule your service today.

I know how to schedule. I'll schedule them. I'm ready. I don't want that. I don't want that. So today's question comes from Jim in New Jersey. What is the max amount of time that you should hold off investing for retirement while working baby steps two through three? We've been working hard on baby step two, mostly student loans since May of 2020. Our final payoff will be put off a bit as we are welcoming our third child in early 2024. I am starting to worry that we are delaying investing for retirement for too long. Any input would be helpful. Yeah. And I think this is a great question because it's true. If you feel like, Oh, my gosh, I'm not contributing to retirement, and if you know about compound interest and all of it, this urgency may come over you where you think, Oh, my gosh, am I losing out on time? And the truth is, yeah, I guess you are if you're not investing, but your money is going to something better. You are getting out of debt. You are eliminating any risk in your life. You're going to be saving up an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses after you do that.

And then after that, you have your entire income at that point besides your mortgage to be able to throw at investing. And so funding 15 % of your income into retirement, especially if you're still having babies, because I'm assuming age wise, 20s, 30s, and to your 40s, right? So you still have some decades there to be saving. And so the problem is that people try to do too many things at once with their money, and they're spread thin. They're trying to throw some in a kid's college fund and some in retirement here, trying to keep up with all the statements of all the debt and just trying to payment on payments there, maybe throw some on a savings account. And it's just you don't get a lot of progress when you do that. And so the intensity of paying off that debt not only gives you freedom financially, but it gives you this emotional, spiritual freedom, too, where you can actually breathe and not have this risk and this weight that you're carrying around. And then you have your whole income to go and invest. And what we find, Jade, is people end up doing better.

They do better. Yes, they do better when this is the plan. So I understand the, Oh, my gosh, are we getting behind? You're not. You're fine. That feeling is true. But mathematically, how it ends up is that.

You're fine. You'll be fine. When Sam and I started paying off debt, just the payoff, just the baby step two process was seven and a half years, no investing. Then we needed to save our three to six months. Then we wanted to buy a home and we needed to save up that money. So when I tell you, during the course of that time, whatever it is, he doesn't say how many years it's exactly going to be, but what's going to happen is your income is going to go up. That's number one. And so when you finally get the chance to start investing, by large percentages, you're going to be investing more than you ever would have during those other years. Now, don't get me wrong, I missed out on some time. That is part of it. When you have debt to pay off, there is a little bit of a consequence that happens there. I do think that we have to accept that as people who have gone into debt and as people who are having to come back and pay the piper for that. I've accepted that. I'm like, You know what? I missed out on some years, but during that time, we worked our butt off to make sure our income got up so that when we did start investing, we would be able to make up for some of that time that was lost.

And the good news is most people are out of debt in two years or less. Yes, that's right. So they're never going to have to face that. But just know on the other side of things, we're doing just fine is all I'm saying. So you'll be doing just fine as well. So don't let that hold you back.

It's good.

Very, very cool. All right, let's see if we can take some calls here. Let's go to Jacob. He's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on in your world, Jacob?

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. My question was, I'm trying to fish up and listening to it. And I have some stocks from an employee purchase plan from a college job that I have. I have a car loan of about $14,000, and I'm wanting to get your input on cashing out on the stocks and paying off the car right away or letting the money grow on the stock portfolio and just paying the payments I've been paying.

Yeah. So how much money do you have in these stocks?

It's the employee stock purchase is about $50,000. And then I have index funds, which is like another 16. So it's always about 70 on average.

Yeah. Good for you, Jacob. That's great. And you have no just liquid cash?

I have about 20 and an annual four % savings.

Oh, okay. Well, honestly, at that point, I would probably just take the 20 and pay off the $14,000 car loan. Single stocks are always... It's always a risky move there. So I almost would just move those anyways to probably go back to the index fund that you have? Is it just a vangard account or what is it?

They're S&P index funds. Okay.

Yeah. So I would probably get... I'mi would get out the single stock game, put them in the index funds, but I would use that 20 grand you had to go ahead and pay off your car. How much do you make a year?

With my wife and I, it's about 3,500 a month.

A month. Okay, so you all are right at, okay.

About 40. What's the purpose of those index funds? What were you stalking that money away for?

It was just... I got advice to put 10,000 away and over 20 years it should be 400,000. If the annual growth is 20 %.

But it's non-retirement.

It's just a brokerage.

Correct. But I do also have a Roth 401(k) from this previous employer that's another 40,000.

And are you consistently contributing to that?

No, I work in a different area now, so I haven't been contributing to that. And that's where I put the index. I was putting money into the index fund whenever I got a yearly bonus or some extra money on the side.

I'd like to give you a bit of a clearer picture of how you're using your money. Is that okay? Because I'm listening to you talk and it sounds like there's some over here, there's some over here. I have this, but it's not working together as efficiently as it could.

Can we agree? Yeah, absolutely.

So if I were you, and this is the framework that we use for everybody that calls in and it works for everybody, if I were you, I would do what Rachel said, which is I'd take that 20,000 that you have that's liquid, I'd pay off your car, right? Do you have any other debt laying around or it's only the car?

Consumer, it's the car and then a house, which is like I have about 139 remaining.

Okay, awesome. Once the car is clear, you're consumer debt free, and then you've also got 6,000 left, I would take that 6,000 and pull out whatever other money out of some of these stocks, and I would make sure I have six months of expenses set aside. Then after that-. Go ahead.

I'm sorry. In my mind, when I was thinking about the 4% annual, that 20,000, that's where I was listening to the stuff. I could say that would be my three, six months.

Well, it would be, but the first thing you've got to do is pay off your debt. That's thing one. Once the debt's out of the way, you can stock back up money in a similar... I mean, you can use a high yield savings account. You're still going to get 5%, so that's great. But the idea is right now I feel like you've got this money in stocks and S&P 500 accounts where it can be used in a better way. What I'm suggesting is paying off that debt, saving up 3-6 months in a yield savings account. Then what I would do, do you have kids?

Just got out of two under two, but yes.

Two young ones. Okay, so then after you guys have already got a house, so you've already done that whole thing. But the next thing is I'd start putting some of that money away and some 529s for them. You and your wife can decide a certain amount, chunk sum over for baby number one, chunk sum over for baby number two, and then whatever you have next, I would throw that at your mortgage. That might leave you- Go ahead.

I have about 4,000 for both of them set aside right now.

Okay, and are you- They're both.

About 5, 29s.

That's great. Are you actively adding to it or you're fine with that?

I've been just in cash aside in the past couple of months.

The point I'm trying to make is I want you to be making really clear, really intentional decisions about how you spend this money. I don't want you just saying, I'm going to make a big chunk of it over here because it's not working best for you. It sounds like the things that are important to you are your kid's education. It is having money saved and it is paying off debt. We're just going to give you the most efficient way to do all of those things. And in the end, you should be investing 15 % of your income every single month out of your paycheck once this debt is paid off. So that's what we're trying to get you to. This is The Ramsey Show.

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You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, your host. I'm joined by best-selling author and host of The Rachel Cruz Show, Rachel Cruz. We are taking your calls all afternoon long. Your life and your money gave us a call. The number is triple eight, 825-5225. Let's go directly to the phone lines. We've got Matt in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Not New York. What's going on?

Hi. I just wanted to run by my car purchase with you and see if I made an irresponsible purchase. I don't think so.

Oh, this is fun, Matt. This is fun. Pop quiz time. We'll tell you, true or false. Yeah. If you finance it, I'm probably going to say true, but let's talk about it. What's going on?

So I needed a car because I had a car that I ran into the ground that put 275,000 miles on it, and it needed a $5,000 repair. But the car was only worth maybe a thousand bucks at this point. And so I got rid of it. And I decided to get something new, reliable that I work a lot. And the unforeseen not having a car just doesn't work for me.

There's a lot of caveats here already, but keep going.

Yeah, sure. And so I decided to get what I wanted. And it wasn't too expensive, but from where I come from, for a long time in my life, I was a drug addict with nothing, right? I was never used to having any money. And now I waited tables to put myself back through school. Good for you. Ended up in a career. Thank you. Thank you. I'm seven and a half years clean. That's great. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And so I decided to treat myself and get the car that I wanted.

So what did you spend?

After down payment, the amount of finance is $26,000.

Okay. How much do you make a year?

After taxes, I take home about 96 grand.

Okay. Good for you. What are you doing now? What are you doing now? Way to go. Workwise.

Thank you. I'm a pipe veteran.

Okay, good for you. Well, Matt, you're impressive in general. I think the idea of beating addiction or being in a certain lifestyle and then completely by your own admission, just completely changing your life around is the biggest thing ever, right? Car payment or not. People like you that do that, it's remarkable. Absolutely remarkable. And I find that with a story like that, or even we talked to people, we talked to a lady yesterday who she battled cancer and she got over it, but she went and purchased a new car she wanted. There's so many emotions tied to money. And there's this level of celebration or this level of, I don't want to drive the crappy car anymore. I want a break. Give me a break. Life, give me a break. It's been tough, right? So that emotion is very real. It doesn't eliminate the mathematical side of it, right? Regardless of why we purchased it, there is still in the picture. So yeah, it's not an insane number compared to your income. If you're making $30,000, I'd have to tell you have to sell this. But you could probably pay it off pretty quickly. Do you have any other debt at all besides just the car?

On my house.

Okay.

I purchased the house, and I have about 80,000 left on the house. I'm chunking it.

Away.

As fast.

As I can. Yeah, good for you. So do you have any savings right now?

Liquid cash, about $12,000.

Okay. Awesome. And then- And then- Go ahead.

I have a 401K where my company puts in five % of my income, and then I put in 15 % on top of that. And the eight grand a month is after I put in the 15 % as well. That's just my.

Take home. Okay. Awesome.

Good for you. And I'm Union, so I don't have to pay for healthcare. I don't have to pay for any of that. That take home is my money that I just get to do it.

As I please. Awesome. That's great. Okay. So what I would do, Matt, is I honestly, in your position, I would pause that 15 % going into retirement for now, get some of that cash back in your paycheck. I would take $11,000. You're not going to like this, but I would take $11,000 of that savings, bring it down to a thousand dollars. I would throw $11,000 at this car. And at that point, you're going to have $15,000 left in car debt. And I would do whatever I could between now and April. Give yourself a timeline, map it out and say, if I work extra, if I work nights, if I drive Uber, if I go crazy for about four to five months, knock the rest of this out, and then save up more on top of that $1,000 to a 3-6 months of expenses in aemergency fund, and you could do that by fall of next year. And then press play again back to your retirement then, and be funding your 401(k). So you're really just going to pause it. I'm making up timelines. You would have to run your own numbers. But for a year, maybe pausing retirement to get this debt paid off to get an emergency fund back into place.

And then you're well on your way, Matt. And then your mortgage is 80 grand. And if you start putting more towards that even, you're going to pay that off really quick. And Matt, it's going to be a whole new world for you. But I would do what I could to pay that car debt off as soon as possible.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I think I could get it paid off comfortably in the next... I mean, if I take that money out and I put it towards the car, probably six months.

I.

Could get it paid off easily. Yeah, I think so, too.

Yeah, for sure. I know. And then I would say, too, don't do it comfortably. Maybe it's really uncomfortable when you do it in four months, right? I agree. You do some stuff that you really do sacrifice and just do it. Are you single? Married? I have.

A.

Girlfriend, but no life or financial type, anyone else. Yeah, that's great. So I think now I'm like, this is the time. It's the time just to do it. Because the other power, Matt, and go to ramseysolutions. Com and look up our investing calculator. I think this is always fun, especially with the car payment, because it's a depreciating asset. Throw your car payment in an investment calculator and just say, From now till I'm 65, how much could that be at retirement? Because Matt, you're well on your way to becoming what we always say is Baby Sebs Millionaire. So it's powerful. And who you are, Matt, and the story you told us at the beginning, I'm like, Oh, yeah, this is a piece of cake. If you can get over, if you can tackle an addiction like this car thing, Oh, yeah, this is nothing. I mean, this is four months of lifestyle, sacrifice, and some extra work on top of your job, you can do this.

But I think that - I'm pretty used to being uncomfortable.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like - would have to be. I'm looking at these numbers and how you turned your life life around. That's that's unbelievable.

To me. How old are you?

I'm.

29. 29, okay. Way to go. Good for you. That's awesome. Well, thanks for calling, Matt. I hope that gives you some direction. But again, that's a real thing, Jade. That's where we always say money is never just about money. There's so much more underneath that is churning that causes us to do the things we do with money. I wrote a book called Know Yourself, Yourself, know your all about about because I'm like, whether it's your childhood, how you were brought up, the life you're living today, your fears, your dreams, your your God-given personality and tendency environment, I mean, all of this shapes why we do the things we do with money. And so for him, I'm like, yeah, the idea that you climb this massive mountain personally and what he was dealing with, there is that feeling of like, Golly, I deserve a good car. This is what I've done. I owe it.

To.

Myself. Yeah, and I get that, right? I do, too. You don't want to drive the crappy car, but also that that doesn't the financial ramifications that come with it. So being debt-free gives freedom in another part of your life.

In that money side. And luckily, he didn't go too far off the rails. I was expecting him to be like, I spent $50,000 and bought an Escalade. So he kept it somewhat reasonable. Luckily, he'll be able to pay it off in the next year. If it was more than that, though, we might have given him different advice.

Yes, I know. I was selling car. And for all you listening, and this isn't to pick on Matt by any means, but just in general, the car debt for me, Jade, is the one that hurts the most when people call in because I'm like, like, credit credit Some people are doing it to keep up with their bill. You can, to a point, be like, okay, they're the student loan thing. We all know why people fall into that trap all the time. There's certain parts that you can see. But it's the the debt one. It always gets me because of the amount people pay in payments. We actually did a video together. We did. Or saw a video together of people. And it was like $1,200 a month in one car that's going to car payments. And you're just just thinking, I'm not even an overly math nerd, but I'm like, You invest that instead. Let that work for you. I know. Then the car dealership or the bank, it's crazy. So it's great.

The car payment, it's what keeps the middle class class and it's what keeps you broke. So make sure to get those cars paid off. It's not worth it to pay payment the rest of your life. When you could use that payment to become a millionaire, which is what Rachel Cruz so eloquently eloquently said, does it for this hour of The Ramsey Show. Check us out next hour. Live from.

The headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they they and create amazing relationships. I am Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author and Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman. So give us a a call. A free call anywhere in the country at at So first up, we have Damon here in New York City. Hey, Damon, welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you guys doing?

We are doing great. How can we help?

So I've made a decision about two years ago that haunts me up until today.

Where.

Me and my family, we were were renting, and decided that we were going to purchase a house together and we all put maybe 10,000 each to get 50,000 to get the house. And the house was 420 and at a 2.8 %. So ever since we moved to the house, I haven't lived there because I was still going to school and I was still commuting, spending maybe up to 500 per month month gas. And we decided that we were going to... We made a verbal agreement that we were going to continue to pay even though we don't live there anymore. And I realized how bad of a decision that was. And I want to tell them that I can't continue to pay this anymore. But knowing how my family is, I know Thanksgiving is not going to look the same for me.

If I.

Tell tell them this, I don't know where to go and I haven't been able to sleep. I just stay in space all day. I don't know what to do.

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so so who all... You say your family, is this your parents and siblings? Or who does this? What makes.

Up this? Parents and siblings.

Parents and siblings.

Is someone renting this house right now since you all aren't living in it?

We all are living in it, but we all put together to contribute to the the and the bills. But in the past year, I haven't lived lived and I've been paying religiously non-stop every month towards the bills, $600 and, not a hundred towards utilities, but $600 $600 the mortgage.

You're renting somewhere else?

I'm living with a friend because it's closer to my job, but I'm not able to save, and my student loans are about to and I have credit card and I just don't know what to do.

Well, sure you do. You know exactly what to do. You said you're in a fog. I'm using my words. You said you just stare into nothingness all day long. I mean, this is absolutely shutting you down. You're not going to be able to live forever with your friend. You're going to get kicked out of that eventually. This is slowly breaking you down. You know exactly what to do. You have to sit down with your parents and your siblings and say, I know I gave you a a verbal but here's where my life is, and here's how I got got there, student loans. Show them everything. I can't afford to pay you $700 a month. They're going to say, Well, then why don't you live here? You go, I don't want to live here. You're going to tell them all the reasons why you don't live there, and it's going to suck. But you're going to have to choose your own livelihood. I mean, as in living, wellbeing. You're going to have to choose you, and you're going to have to have a big boy conversation and own it. If they get mad at you for a while and Thanksgiving sucks, I would rather have a sucky Thanksgiving or two or three than a sucky life.

Yeah, and I think that's fair. I also think it's fair because on their end, they're thinking, Yeah, well, we've agreed to this. I understand that, too. You're breaking that. But, Damian, to Ken's point, it has to. This doesn't sustain. You can't. You can't live like this. I think that even saying, I understand I'm backing out of what I said, but I don't have have the I don't have the ability anymore to do this. This. And if there's something else I can do to maybe help. But I think too, Damon, I think owning it is a very humble thing to do, and I would do that. But also for your sake, and I would pray your parents, which I always think the best about relationship, I'm always like, I'm sure your parents are wonderful.

Thanksgiving is going to be wonderful.

You would pray that your parents would say, Yeah, we see this in our son. We see the numbers in the the situation, we don't want to put that on our our How old are you?

I'm 30.

How old were you when you did this deal?

I'm 28.

Okay, so just two years ago. Was there going to be a point that you guys would have this paid off and split the equity? What was the plan?

The plan was, because we moved to America, so the plan was just to have somewhere to live and have a family home somewhere.

Yeah, and everyone contribute. Will this this put them your your parents? You know the math of when you do choose to stop paying? Will they still be able to cover the payment?

There are enough adults in the house where they will be able to cover the payment if I stop stop paying, will be able to pay maybe 200, X, and they just have to adjust their spending habits.

But.

One of my siblings already cut cut with with attempting to have a conversation about this. That's the person they are.

Yeah.

I'm sorry about that. I don't make light of that. But, I mean, you have no choice. You either choose to not have an awkward situation with them or you choose to have an awful life.

Can I say, if they choose to cut off communication with you because of this, that's their choice. You can't control that. It would be one of the most painful, terrible terrible when there's fractured relationships in in I think it's just... There's grief in that. I mean, it's terrible. But you didn't choose that. You still want relationship with them. You just can't make a $700 payment to a house that you don't live in anymore. And that's what you're asking to be out of, not out of the family. And so if they choose to take a different route, sadly, that is on them.

Yeah.

Where did you guys move from? Where are you guys from originally?

We moved from New Jersey to New York.

But before you said we came to America.

Oh, we moved from the Caribbean. Okay.

Because I do know, too, that certain level of loyalty in your word and certain cultures holds way more weight than than others, So I know that that sometimes is at play as well. But I would own what I signed up for, and that I can't fulfill it. But them choosing to not communicate with you anymore, that's their stuff, right? And if it's not this, and if those are the people they are, I hate to say it, there's going to be something else in life. You marry someone they don't agree with, you raise your your kids, know what I mean? Eventually, that happens. But I'm so sorry.

Damian, you are a bad person. I think you were calling for permission. We don't have the power to give it to you, but I will tell you that we're in agreement on what you should do, and so are you. You need to do this. You're not a bad person for doing this. I think you need to give yourself some forgiveness for not living up to what you agreed to and knowing that you got to make a different decision, which is the right decision. So do it and move forward.

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So make sure to check that out. All right, let's go to the phones this hour. We got Dale in San Antonio up next. Hey, Dale, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So I think your screener helped me figure out what my question really is. And that that is, got a good income. I'm working really hard to be 100 % out of debt. Although with my mortgage and being 63 years old, I'm not sure that I'll ever make that happen 100 %, but I'm going to work on it. The biggest challenge I think I have is getting my wife on board with all of the aspects of being completely debt-free, having a real budget and sticking to it, and knowing where your money goes. Today, I ordered the book, Total Money Makeover. Good. Of course, I've been listening to you guys. We had purchased a new car in 2022, which I'm more than doubling the payments now so that I can get that paid off as quick as I can. I don't have any credit card debt. The only other debt I have is we ended ended up in a pool last last year. So working on get the car paid off, get the pool paid off, and then really hit the mortgage. Luckily, we have a great amount of of in it, but about half of my income every month goes somewhere, and I can't seem to find a way to get my wife on board with knowing where it goes and managing that.

Okay, well, getting spouses on board, I think, is one of the more common themes that we hear a lot. And I would say sometimes the issue more is weighted on that spouse that doesn't want to be on board. And sometimes, Dale, we find the issue is actually the person that wants to do all of this, but they are maybe a little controlling and all that. I'm not saying that you. You. I'm not saying that But I would would when you do approach these conversations, what's her hesitation? What's her feelings are negative around around Does she express why?

She doesn't really express negativity. What she expresses is that all of the purchasing that she's making is for a reason, and that every purchase that she's making is with with a lot of research making sure it's the best value for the money, etc. But when I walk into the house and I see 15 boxes sitting there on the table that haven't been opened yet, and I'm wondering, what is all of that? Most of the time, if I'll ask her something specific about what is is that, said, I'm not sure I need need check because I think that's her full-time job.

It's her full-time job.

Okay, so- And And it's- a couple of things- -she spends a lot on the family.

Yes. Yes. What we find a lot of times is that in a household, sometimes not not it's a little stereotypical, but it just ends up being true for a lot of people, is that the woman is the one that usually is the CFO of the household, meaning she's the one that's keeping track of the paper towels and the toilet paper, and who needs a Costco run, and who needs to do this. That functioning aspect, not always, but a good amount of time is on the woman. And so I'm sure that's the role that she has played to a a And so I would say, Dale, sometimes it could feel... Because I'm more of the spender. My husband's more of the saver. So I actually, in some ways, may relate to your wife getting a package in the mail. And I'm like, Oh, let me check the Amazon app. I can't remember what I ordered. Right. So I get that to a degree. Now, I don't want her to be be or lying, or sneaking things things or anything like that. But I would say in your language, I would change the, Well, what did you buy?

What is this? And it's things pointing at her. And talk about you. Talk about Dale and say, Man, sit her down and just say, Hey, I'm genuinely fearful that we're not going to have money to be able to retire, to live the life we we want. Debt on the pool, our cars. I'm starting to feel the weight of this. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling stressed. You're speaking to you and what you're feeling. And that's always my piece of advice for couples is to say your why. What is it? And for some women that I talk talk to out there, have to go to their husbands and say, Will, you please help me with this because I'm scared if something happens, we're not going to be okay. There's always that undercurrent that is happening that's causing you to say, Oh, my gosh, I have to order the total money makeover book. Oh, my gosh, I need to figure out where our money is going. Going. I would express that to her, not in a, Oh, we're walking through the the four year, Hey, I feel like we should figure this out. A true sit down, really sitting down and saying, I want to map out the rest of our life.

We have 2-3 decades ahead of us. How can we best do do this together and do this and really focus? Because I'm fearful. I'm scared. Whatever it is, deal for you, explaining that why. And then I think it's always helpful to have a plan and just to show her and knowing that she can change what she wants on it, but to map out some level of a plan just to say, Hey, I just did a mock budget. Here's what this is looking like for us to have some margin to be able to throw out the car. Because if we do this, the car can be paid off in 18 months or whatever. And then we can get the pool paid off by the time we're 65, and then we can do retirement there. I'll have to work another maybe five extra years to make sure to get where we are. At least do some of the legwork and a plan and show her, because sometimes the accusation of, Well, they don't want a budget. They don't want to do this, it's because they don't know what to do. It's all this theory in their head.

But when they see facts on paper, not always, but sometimes that's helpful. And when she hears from you, when she hears from her husband where you're at, you see a plan, and the the bigger too, is Dale, I want to work as a team. It's been you over here spending this. It's me over here. And I want to do this together and having that conversation. Does that make sense?

It does. And I'll tell you just to give you one little piece. A couple of days ago, I took a look at the mortgage, and I figured out a way that I can pay it off in seven years. And I let her know about that. And she was pretty excited about it. I think she is very much to making it happen. I just don't know that the budget that she wants. We talked about a budget and the budget that she wants, I'm not completely comfortable with. I think it's a little high. And so I guess we continue working on it. Well, a.

Budget- Yeah. Okay. So do you all have every dollar premium? We don't. Okay, hold on the line when we get done with this call, because we're going to give you a year of that, because I want you guys to sit down together, look at your income for the month. And both of you, Dale, both of you sit down and plug in numbers and have these these go line item by line item and say, Hey, for food. And she's going to say, We need $800 for groceries. And you may be like, What? That's crazy. We only need 400. And she's going to say, No, no, no. You haven't done this. Let's look on average what we spend to run this, and this is what it is. So you need some reality, too, into her world and what she's been seeing. But also she can't go and just spend whatever she wants either, Dale. So there's a balance that you both have to bring to this.

I like you say balance. Dale, here's my advice. I would take the offer at the higher budget. One of the things we teach in budgeting is it takes 90 days, 120 days, sometimes as much as six months to get budgeting right. I would take this offer from her. Okay, I'll do this budget. It may be a little high for you, and you may have to adjust some of your payments on the pool and things like like that, let's just get a budget where we're in agreement. Then we begin to, Hey, could we adjust it this month? Month? Take what she's offering right now, and I'd work from that. I think she's offered you an olive branch.

I'd take it. That's good. Okay, hold on the line, Dale. Dale. I like that. Thank We're going to give you a year of that. Absolutely. Thanks for calling. Thank you. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Ramsey Ramsey Rachel Cruz hosting today this hour with Ramsey Personality and Best Lying author Ken Ken And the holidays are coming up, you guys. And here at Ramsey, we always encourage you all to get some gifts that are going to help people. People. And always do a $12 sale every year. So if you go to ramseysolutions. Com/store, there's a ton of our books. I know Baby steps Millionaires is there, Total Money Makeover, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. I think some of mine, mine, know yourself, know your I think is in there.

From paycheck to purpose, the proximity principle, you want a new year, new career. Come on. My kids need shoes. I appeal to you. We're practically practically giving books away. No, it really is a great, unbelievable sale, and our tribe just goes bananas every year. But can I talk about this?

Yes. Yes. You going to? Well, I was going to say, and also in the store. Can I talk about it? Not for the $12 sale. I know. It's a few more dollars more. Yeah, but this- The kids book.

Book. Where's the camera? There we go. I feel like David Letterman. Remember he used to do that? Oh, yeah. There it is. This is Rachel Cruz's new book. It's called I'm Glad for for I I have. And at how adorable it is. Can you tell people who's this.

Little bear? Well, they don't have names. Oh, they don't don't have No, but the- It's.

Obvious, I.

Haven't read it yet. No, it's fine. But this isn't my genre. There's squirrels, bears, there's whales, there's there's I.

Mean.

Look.

At the artwork in this. This is great. It's like show and tell time. Yeah, the illustrations. There's a Rubik's Rubik's in there. This is great. Kelly, I'm reminded of David Letterman and his cuticle. I don't know if my cuticles are up to shape, but I remember they would zoom in. In. So of you who remember Letterman, this is a great book. I'll tell you why it's great, because it begins a very important conversation about gratitude and contentment that will eventually be a huge deal and how they handle money. That's what I love. You're getting kids early, just under the core of what money is all about.

I know parents out there, I always laugh because the Amazon catalog has come to our house, and my kids have circled literally everything in the catalog for Christmas. I'm just like, Oh, my gosh. But it is. It's just the stuff and the excitement of stuff. I understand that. I wrote a book called Love Your Life Not Theirs because the comparison game, just getting getting staying on top of it all, the upgrades, the bigger, the better. I'm like, it's the American way of life. And what ends up happening financially is people go down the avenue of debt to get that, and they end up in a lot of trouble. Or on an emotional side, you go down this and you think, Okay, if I just get this stuff, I'm going to be fulfilled. I'm going to be happy. This is the thing that's going to really scratch the itch, and I'm going to be okay. I just need this thing. And we've all said that, and we all know it's not true. But there's something bigger and better out there I believe that actually does fulfill us on a deeper level. We talk about that at the end of the the book, these little animals go on an adventure to to It's so so and.

It's easy to read. Can I read just one.

Little thing here? Oh, do it.

Across the whole world, on the sunny Savannah, an elephant said to her, pops and her Nana. When I get a toy, it's exciting and and fun. Anything's anything's possible the sun. Let's just tuck everybody. I think I saw Kelly Kelly off there. Just story time. My very soft, soft, voice.

Just story time.

It's just wonderful, though. It's really cute, and it's a great book. It should show show up the tree everywhere across America.

This is what I'm saying. Yes, Thanksgiving Christmas, you all.

Ramsysolutions. Com. It's called I'm Glad for what I have. Go get it.

Congrats, by the way. Thank you, Ken. Thank you. All right, so we're we're going to go the phones. Right now we got Josephine in... Is that Vermont? Hey, Josephine, welcome to the show. Show. Hello. Are you? We're doing great. How can we help?

I have a question about avoiding lifestyle drift as my income goes up. I am very frugal because I would love to be able to not work past the age of 50. I'm on track for that as long long I freeze my spending where it is now. I'm always torn because I also would like to live a little better sometimes. Sometimes. I'd like.

Can I jump in, Josephine? Can I jump in really quick? Because I think for our audience this will be interesting. Are you a part of the FHIR movement or at least on the fringe of the Financially Independent Retire Early? Is that what I'm hearing?

No. I mean, I know what you're talking about, but my my I mean, my motivation is more that my dad died when he was was 54, I work really hard, and I would love it to be optional at least. Maybe I'll work longer, but...

But it feels like you're at the point now where you've got a touch of that movement in you where you're working so hard, you just want to enjoy a little bit of life. And I just wonder if there's not maybe maybe the belt one or two notches. Sorry for that man metaphor there, but it's like you're living so tight and you're squeezed with your time because of the money issue and the work issue. And I just wonder if you can still retire at a young age, but also enjoy life a little bit. Bit. I what are you missing? What would you say to to Rachel and I wish I could do this every once in a while. What's being sacrificed?

Well, really nothing, I guess. I live very comfortably. But I guess the thing that I I - There's something. Back and forth about is a new car, which I don't need. I worry that I want it more because it's comparing myself to others than.

Really needing it.

What are you driving now?

It's a 2020 Mazda SUV.

Like the CX7?

The.

5. The 5. Yeah, it's a great.

Little car. Car. Wow, for you. It's Ken Nose. Ken Nose is Mazda.

Well, I watch a lot of sports. If you watch at football, the car commercials are ubiquitous.

All the guys are laughing. Yeah, that's the only.

Reason I know that. I'm not.

Some car guy. That's That's so funny. A nice car, though.

Yeah, Yeah, it is. Oh, it's great. Right. You don't need anything else and you shouldn't be jealous.

You got to get a nice car. Car. I know. I I think, Josephine, and so let me say this. For your dad and his story, what happened at 54 that caused him to pass away?

He had an accident at work.

Okay, I'm so sorry. Yeah, that's tragic and traumatic and all of of that it's sudden like that. So what I would say is there's part of the motivation, possibly, I don't want to put words in your mouth, part of the motivation for you that wants to retire at 50 is a little bit of this fear that may not be a reality in your life. And I'm sitting here next to Ken, and I think the stars have aligned today because Ken is one of the best talking about the value that you bring Josephine to the the world. Work is not something to escape, but it's something that you can actually enjoy and find something that you find find from. Now, I agree with you. I wouldn't want to be paycheck to paycheck, feeling like I'm still scraping by, and that I'm still so nervous that I'm not going to be able. But at this point in your life, you could, because how old are you? I'm 32. Okay. So at this point in your life, Josephine, you have a solid 20, 25 years past that that 50 point, 55, that you can put away some serious money, save, but more for the reasons that are not completely fear-based, because I I think of what's paralyzing you maybe with your lifestyle is this fear of if I spend, then I'm not going to have enough to put away.

And if I don't have enough to put put if something happens to me, X, Y, and Z, and I understand that there's reality to everyone's stories, and everyone is on this Earth a limited number of days, and we don't know those days. But for you, I think there's some freedom to give yourself to say, Yeah, I'm going to shoot for a goal. But the reason I'm shooting for the goal is not out of fear, but maybe out of something else. And I wonder if that motivation is different, if that feels different in your expenses, that if you do get a bump and a raise and you're still being being and you're investing investing 15 of your your and you're out of of and you have some money saved for an emergency emergency and you're doing all this, that it gives you permission to give some of that away and to save some of it, sure, and to spend it and enjoy it.

I.

Would focus in on that.

I think Rachel is on it. I think Rachel is on it. Josephie, I think Rachel has got a great point. I think this is a mindset switch. Here's what I'm hearing. I'm going to say this really fast. You tell me if I'm right or or wrong, and I don't mind wrong. I don't mind-and-wrong, okay? You're frugal by nature. You're very disciplined by nature. I think what's going on is you're just dealing with normal comparison stuff that I deal with, Rachel deals with, we all deal with it, because somebody in your life has got a really fancy something, and it's a whole lot sexier than a Mazda CX5. I think what's going on is you're going, Man, I want that. Here's what I want you to do when you start to feel that way. Do you want what comes with that fancy car that your friend can't actually actually afford, and dragging around $750, $1,100 car car That's real. I'm not making that up. I think if you start to go, Would I want that? Would I want to have to spend more of my savings on that? You start to go, Well, what would I have to do to have what they have?

I think you'll go, Oh, I don't want that. I think you're going to be really happy with your awesome life in Burlington, Vermont. You're killing it, Josephine.

Keep going.

Hey, what's up, guys? Jade Warshaw here. Now, Christmas is coming up fast, and that means you're about about to the pressure to drop loads of cash on presents, decorations, plane tickets, you name it. But you're not going to reach for that credit card. It's still early enough for you to make a plan for all that spending within every dollar budget. Right now, you can get an entire year of all your premium features for just 50 bucks with our Black Friday sale. Head on over to everydollar. Com/blackfriday to get that deal now.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Rachel hosting this hour with Ken Coleman, Ramsey Ramsey and best of the author. We're taking your calls at triple-eight, 825-5225. Up next, we have Tyler in Mesa, Arizona. Great area outside of Phoenix. Hey, Tyler, welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So my question is, should I keep the house? My father passed away. I have two younger brothers, and I'm trying to decide whether or not it makes sense to keep the house.

I'm so sorry, Tyler.

What happened?

He was very sick for a long time, and he couldn't take it anymore. He ended his life on April third.

Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry. What situation is the rest of the family in about this? I know you're the one on the phone, but is anybody else involved in this decision?

My parents are divorced. I'm usually living with my mom, with my brothers, my two two They moved out to Casa Grande, where my mom lives. Recently, after my father father passed. Shaken up. We all are. It's not a-.

How old are are you guys, How old are you and your brothers?

I'm 20. My younger brother, Cody, is 18 and my youngest is 15.

Okay, so they're still at home. So they moved with your mom. How far away is your mom's house from from or from where your dad is living?

It's about an hour.

Okay. And where will you be living, Tyler? Will you be closer to your mom over there, or will you be more near your dad's, your dad's house?

I'm still living at home. I'm going to college. Okay, but.

Is that home in the home that your dad had?

No, it's my mom's home. Okay, so.

You're all with your mom. You're all an hour away from where your dad was.

Did you all get anything else as a result of his passing? Anything else.

Besides the house? Life insurance or anything.

Life insurance paid out about about However, he set it up incorrectly and half went to my mom and half went to my aunt. Fortunately, my aunt is a really great person, and she gave me the money for the benefit of my two brothers and myself. That's been keeping the house afloat. He spent his money as it came in, all right there. Every dollar he got, he used pretty much.

Have you been paying the house payment? I guess it's only been what, three or four months that you've been paying the house payment through the money that your aunt gave you?

Yes. The money my aunt gave me, and then he was receiving money monthly from a trust created by his father. Father. Okay. There $20,000 in the bank account, and my aunt gave me 45. We're down to about about 28, everything's on time. The house isn't going to get foreclosed on.

Yeah. How much is it worth right now? Do you you know? You sold sold it, what you get from it?

About.

430,000. 430,000. Okay, how much is on the mortgage?

About 30,000.

Okay, so it's almost a lot of equity.

Yeah, it's appreciated a lot since he bought it.

Okay. I know what I would.

Do, Rachel. I know what I would would too, Tyler. I just want to double-check. Does this house carry any level of significance to you in the sense that you want to keep it within the family? Did your grandfather build the house? Is there any emotional ties besides just that your dad lived there? I understand that. But is there any reason you would want to live in this house for you?

My youngest brother really wants to keep the.

House- He's 15 years old, right? Right?

We've been- 15. I mean, the big thing, everybody's telling me to rent it it out. That's not a terrible idea. It would keep the house afloat, and we'd have a little bit of money coming in.

Okay, so Tyler, what I would do, and Ken, I'm sure we're going to be on the same page with with I would sell it, Tyler. I would sell it. It's an hour away from where you are. The renting game is something that you guys do not need to burden yourselves with at 2018 and 15 years old. And the beautiful thing is, Tyler, you're going to get $400,000 of equity, which is a huge gift to you guys. And being able to use that, whether it's for college, a down payment on a home that you want for yourself, whatever can be used for this money is really going to jump start your life, in this. And for reasons that I just don't think is necessary to keep a home that's an hour away from where you're going to be living. And I understand that's so emotional. That's why I even wanted to ask that first question of what emotions are tied in this. Because homes, especially when it involves a death, we hear this a lot, Tyler, it's very difficult for people. We talk to people that their spouse has passed away or a parent and letting go of that house feels like they're letting go of them.

There's a massive void there. There's another level of grief, almost, of letting something like that go. But from a financial standpoint, Tyler, I would sell it.

Yeah, Tyler, I would sell it to, and for all the reasons that Rachel gave you, you do not, in the moment of grief at this stage of your life, want to be dealing with being a landlord. The amount of profit that actually benefits you and your brothers is limited to none at this point. I know everybody's going, Oh, it's an asset. You could blah, blah, blah, blah. No, that's not helping you at all versus selling the house. Your dad's legacy lives on on the fact that he did pay the house down. He paid it to a point where, hey, it's a huge asset. Split three ways between the brothers, I'm assuming that's what the deal is, that is a massive, massive, massive head start for you, as Rachel said. I think it's a no-brainer. You do not want to mess with this. You guys can get into real estate down the the line, this could pay for your 15-year-old brother's college potentially. This has so many benefits. Benefits. And importantly, you guys need to grieve. You guys need to be able to grieve without trying to figure out how to deal with a landlord or somebody who's going to operate the house when you're gone.

Your mother lives in a different place. There's just too many unknowns and too many variables to think that this is a good idea. I would take the money and invest it wisely. I really recommend, Tyler, that you, at 20, as the older brother, the man of the house figuratively here, I'd get with one of our our smart.

Investor Yes, Yes, I say that and and real.

Estate ELP. And a real estate ELP. But I get the house sold and then sit with a great investment advisor who will put that money to work for all.

Three of you. Because even if we painted a different scenario, Tyler, let's just pretend you were 30 years old, married with two kids, and you're like, And I love this house. Even if you kept that house, you would still have to pay out your brothers because that's an asset that's split between three people. So again, that could be another conversation if you have the money to do it, and that's what you wanted to do. Do. So there different ways to do this, but a really clean way that takes a lot of pressure off you, a lot of work that is unnecessary of having a renter an hour away that's going to be calling you at 2:00 AM because they're heating an air air broke. In Phoenix, and they're hot. It's not worth it. It's not worth it at this point. And again, like Ken said, if you want to get into that down the line, I come from a real estate family. My husband, he's looking at doing flips now. We love the idea of real estate estate having renters and all of of it, it has to be at a point that it's not a stress point for you that you're able to have the cash and the cash flow.

And I think that's the season of life, too, Tyler. And I hate to pin an age at you because of it. But I think you have so much life ahead of you. And this money, again, can be such a gift to continue your dad's legacy. And that's how I would look at it. And to say that you're you're selling an asset that he had, had, but, you're able to use that and put it in the the put it in high yield savings.

Go forward. I just got an idea. You and Winston need a show on on If he starts flipping, I want to see you two walking through houses. I want to see you with a sledgehammer- Flip the cash. -and your fancy little shoes knocking drywall out. That America needs to see. We need another couple with a flip shop.

I like- And it's you and Winston. -the air conditioning and studios. This is my job, and I enjoy my job. Thank you, though, Ken. Well, thanks to all the guys in the booth for making this show happen. Tyler, thanks for the the call, holding the We're going to pick you up with some stuff. And Kelly. Oh, and Kelly. Thanks, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Ramsey where we help people build wealth, do work that they they and create actual amazing relationships. I am Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with best selling author, Ramsey Ramsey and great great Ken Coleman. And we are here to answer your questions. And it's a free call anywhere in the country at at triple-eight, So we're going to go to the phones this hour and we have Judy up first in Indianapolis. Hey, Judy, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help? Help?

Okay, this is my little little situation, I haven't heard this much before on your show. I'm 59 and I'm a a widow, I'm unhappy in my present position, my job. I've been in it since 2008. I have no debt. I have no electric electric bills I can live on very little a month. I'm just by myself. I have no no I have no dependents, just me. I have about about 150,000 in 401,000.

How much? 150? Yes. Okay.

I have 75,000 in just a savings account, account, high savings account. Account. And I said, I'm not happy in my present position.

What do.

You do? I'm in logistics.

Okay. What's wearing on you? Yeah, what's wearing on you? Is it the work or is it the environment or both?

Well, I'm a single employee for my company, OnSite, at a a customer, I've been there since 2008. Recently, my schedules have changed. All team schedules have changed where they require you to be on call for an additional 48 hours a week, but they won't pay for the on call. What they do is, as long as you can can prove time spent in email time or conflict management of shipments, then you can get your time, like 30 minutes a a instead of... Because I'm on call like 5 hours a night, and you only get paid for a small admission of 1% of what.

You actually do. Yeah, so that just eats away at you. It's just irritating. Oh, it does. Yeah, I get it. It's also your schedule. Yeah, and you're by yourself, too. I guess that's not fair.

No. I'm looking possibly to change my.

My Your whole life.

Yeah. You should. That's what I'm getting at. Because logistics, if you were in a different environment and different circumstances, the logistics work, the process nature of it, you probably enjoy that because you're probably good at it. Is that true or false?

I believe I am.

Okay, good. All right.

The on-call is what's.

Killing me. Oh, I get it. It. Well, of all, all, we to be looking to leave. That would be my first advice. But I guess you called for.

Some other reason. Do you know what you want to do, Judy?

Yes, I am looking actually to get a a car I'm thinking is I want to get a car with this part, about 30,000 of my 75 in savings. What I want to do is drive for a living, whether it's Lyft or Uber Uber or driving from from and things like that. I think that's what I want to do. I want to help people that way.

Okay.

Now, what are you making your... Well, number one, do you have any debt, Judy? Just your in-house? What's your housing situation?

I own my house.

Full out, outright. You have no debt, nothing. Okay. She's like- like- I know like a girl.

Living a dream, Judy. She told us she has hardly any expenses. Here's the question. What is your current car?

Right now, it's a 2008. It's a a a Toyota pickup, and I won't get rid of that. I'm going to keep it. I have a small farm. I raise chickens and whale and rabbits. I'm going to keep it for the feed, haul and feed, and the dogs and stuff back and forth.

Have you done your homework on the Uber or the Lyft? Have you done your homework just to figure out what you you can- Okay, and you can make plenty.

Well, I don't know about plenty. I don't take much, though. I want to do something I more enjoy. I get that. I make about about now.

All right, well, not going to make make drive an Uber or Lyft in Indianapolis. Here's what I want to point out. I would just be very careful about making this decision, because you admitted to me just a moment ago that if I gave you a $57,000 logistics job where you didn't have that nagging issue of being on call like a a and I can't leave work at at and I'm not working in an isolated situation, that you would probably enjoy that job. Didn't Didn't you me something like that?

Yeah, I'm not so sure I want to go back and forth to an office anymore.

Okay.

And I'm fine with that.

I get it. But I'm still still here's what happens. Let's say you buy a car for for $30,000, That car is going to continue to go down down value, whether it's brand new or it's used, and you're driving around and you're not making much. Much. You're helping people. You sound like a lovely person who would be awesome to talk to if I was in the the back of your car and you were driving me me around. This is not just about you serving people by driving. Maybe you could get a delivery job where you're making pretty decent money, have some job benefits. I want you to find the middle ground between Uber and logistics. I just feel like you've got too wide of either or here.

Yeah, because what I don't want to happen, Judy, is you look up in 15 years and you're 70 and you're like, I want to be done. You look like, Gosh, but I don't know if I feel comfortable being done yet because of my nest egg. I want you you to some numbers for you, Judy, and just to see, okay, what would it look like.

To- Let me go over a little bit more. I'm sorry, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'm a widow, so I can get my husband's Social Security at 67 or 72. But I'm very healthy, so I plan to work for a while. My husband's husband's social has been estimated at 2,700 a a month, when I I 67. Plus, I have an annuity of already in place every month for the rest of my life. That would be be 4,700, a month, which is more than plenty for me to do stuff with. If I was to do do Uber or or even drive for a senior community, community, or whatever they needed, I could call call me hours.

All right, I changed my... All right, Judy, you're awesome. You gave me new information. You gave me new information. I'm glad you gave me new information. Now I'm going to tell you, go drive yourself till you're just completely content. Because now you've got more margin than I thought you had. I didn't want you at this young age, and I love that you said you're going to keep working. I think you got way more options. I'm going to say go drive Uber or Lyft or for senior citizens, I changed my answer.

Do you.

Think that's enough for me to live on? I only have have That's what I.

Was a little concerned about.

I know, I want you to run those numbers.

I'll waffle between my two answers. First piece of advice I gave you, I think, is good. But I also think that you're frugal enough that if you try this for a couple of years, you can always make some changes.

That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, go ahead and I will get out of the job. You're not happy there. You have enough margin today in the present to drive. So do it till 2026 and then look up and decide, Okay, do I need to go back in something more full-time for a few few years? Make that But for today, Judy, I think you're good. I think you're good to go do what you want to do. Thanks for the call. Folks, Changing Your Family Tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up Up we have, is it, Berta in Palm Springs? Is it.

Berta or Brita? Brita?

It's likes the water purifier.

Nice. Perfect.

Very.

Nice. Thanks for calling, calling, How can we help?

Thank you for taking my call. I got a quick question. I'm currently in baby step two. I've paid off off since January.

Nice. Oh, my God.

Thank you, guys. I backed out of bankruptcy to follow follow guys' guys' plan. It's the best.

Choice I ever made. Look at you. I'm so proud of you. That's amazing.

Thank you. So all of my debt was in collections when I started, so nothing had a minimum to keep it current. None of it was current. I have one debt that's not accepting payments right now because they say they're not allowed to collect in Colorado and California right now. I think they have a lawsuit going on maybe.

Oh, interesting.

Okay. And then I have an $81,000 medical debt that is obviously in collections. And their minimum payment that they're asking for is $2,300 a month, which would stop the the interest that grows each month. Oh, wow. And my question is, while I'm paying off IRS right now and another smaller debt, I should have those paid off at the end of next month and the end of January. Okay. Should I be making the interest payment on the medical debt to hold the balance where it is until I can get to these other debts or pay it and just let it go up?

How much... Well, the perfect scenario is that that you're staying on it and not getting behind on it. So my question is, you're going to be done with one of the the end of this month, is that correct? So how much money would that free up at the end of this month?

End of December, I'll be IRS debt free. Okay, perfect. And I put about $2,300 a month towards that.

Okay, so that'll be freed up. And then what about the January debt? How much do you pay on that?

The January debt, I'm currently paying $675 a month on. And I was figuring I'll have it paid off in January because I was going to put the rest of the IRS money towards that one and have it paid off in January. And then what I'm left with is the one that's not accepting payments, that's the private student loan that has my dad's name on it. So I've been trying to prioritize that since March, but they won't accept anything. And then I have a Chrysler repossessed card debt that I also need to tackle $32,000.

For $32, okay. How much do you make a year?

I take home about $100,000.

Okay. Wow, you've been doing a lot of work then. Yeah, you've killed it. For the medical debt, since it's in collections, have you tried to negotiate that down at all?

I I have. I feel like they will... They say no that they need the minimum payment. And they actually lied to me for months and months and said they can't accept payments on it at all unless it's the minimum amount, which is a total lie. I called back and I clicked the numbers to get to the payment one. And all of a sudden they said they would accept payments, but just not the minimum one to stop the interest. So they totally lied to me and I believed it. So I forgot what what.

Question was. No, you're good. I was just wondering, because it's such a large medical debt and it's it's in most of the time they will settle for... But you'll have to have that amount of of money to make that deal possible. So your question is, for now, honestly, and I'd be curious, Ken, your thoughts on this. I'm almost tempted, tempted, to attack these two smaller ones, especially the IRS one. I would want that out out ASAP. It's going to just free up three grand. So even if you get behind 2-3 months on the interest, I would still try to pay the minimum payment if you can and stay current. But I think I would focus a lot of my efforts on these smaller ones, get them knocked off. That's going to free up three grand. Are you able to pay that minimum payment at all of the 2,300 with the medical, or does that slow down your entire death snowball?

No, I could pay that, but it would stop me paying off IRS right now, and then it would slow the other one getting paid off in January. So I could put that towards it. No problem. I feel like in my conversations with them that they will settle with me if I have some some some pain to give to them. Exactly. The verbiage they've used makes.

Me think that. Yes, for sure. Yeah, and usually they will. We find most of the time they will. You'd want to get it in writing when that happens. But again, I want to clear up the IRS stuff that I don't like the IRS being being Hundred %. Percent. Then you're so close with the other one to pay off. I agree.

With you, Rachel. But I would go the step step of, I'd put a number out there. You cannot lose in this situation. Situation. I'd throw a number I'd throw a lump sum number. I'd go, Look, this is what I can pay you, and this is when I can pay the lump sum. See what they say. By the way, don't be crazy generous. Let's have some fun with this. This is like a stress-free negotiation, in my opinion. You can't lose. So I'd throw a number out. In fact, let's just talk about this really quick. What's a number that you have in your mind? You go, All right, I'll offer it this to them. I'll say, Here's the lump sum. Would you guys be willing to settle for for this? Just put a number in front of of them. Would you say?

Well, I was thinking if I was just going to pay the interest until June, I'm expecting a bonus. I was thinking if I'm just paying the interest and I'm saving all this other back money up of offering them $10,000 and then dropping it to $50,000, I would be happy with that. I'm more than happy to pay my debt. It's my debt. But even if they would drop it down to $50,000, then I could pay that off next year, no problem.

I'd say that. Tell them. Go, Hey, I want to pay my debt. I got into this mess. I'm cleaning it up. This is what I'm proposing. Just see what.

They say.

Okay.

You could even go half on it, it, Sometimes some of these, it's like like on the dollar. I was going to say even 40.

Okay.

All right, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Start with this.

Sorry to cut you off, but start with this. Hey, what would would a lump sum? What you be willing to receive from me on a lump sum? See what they.

Throw out first. First.

I want them to show me their cards.

Totally. Totally. Sorry, I just took in front of you No, you're great. But I appreciate appreciate Brita?

Brita. Gosh, sorry, Brenda. I'm here for you. Thank you. Sorry, your name is not Brenda. It is Brita. I'm sorry. I appreciate her humility humility it, though, knowing this is my my because that's part of this conversation. When you sign up for it, you owe it, right? Right? So is an important part of this. But also, you guys on this journey, and she was about to file for bankruptcy. Awesome stuff. She had a pile of stuff. She had medical, IRS, all of it. It. So is a point when the debt gets gets and it's in in and these people... I mean, like she said, they lie to you. It's a gross industry. Industry. And you know, hey, this interest is absolutely insane, there is not a moral check that you need to have to say, Yeah, I'm going to see if I can negotiate this bill down, because you're still owning that you signed up for this. But medical debt is so terrible. I think it's one of the worst. It's one of the number number one causes bankruptcy in in America, medical debt.

Oh, yeah. Piles up quickly and has such.

Negative stuff attached to it. Yes. So I think asking for that negotiation and talking through that is very very acceptable, just to ask, and like you said, Ken, throw it out there and just see. The worst they can say is no. But at that point, talk to it. But also, Brenda, if you're still on the line listening, make sure you get it in writing. Have them email you immediately. Get the name of the person you're talking to if a deal is done, get their name, get their phone number, their extension, how you can reach them. Make sure you.

Get all of this. That's a great point. Because once you hang up with them, it's like playing playing lottery to get the same person back on.

The phone.

I know. I promise I talked to a lady named Phyllis. I don't know where Phyllis is.

We're.

Not sure. She's in the Arkansas headquarters. Headquarters. Oh, You're right. Get it in writing. I do, yeah. That's a very good point.

Get the person's name.

Name. But the negotiations, let somebody else throw a number out first. You can always go back and forth. I like that. Right. But Brenda's crushing it. I want people to catch something. She said at the very beginning, Rachel, she said, I backed out of bankruptcy. She said something to the effect of, I'm so glad I did. I hope some people hear that that's not as easy and clean and simple as it feels like.

No, not at all. You guys, if you're enjoying the show, will you help us spread the word? Will you leave a review, subscribe, send these episodes out to friends and family? The more that we get listeners and people watching and seeing seeing show, hopefully the more help that we can get across America and to be able to help. Make sure to share, like, subscribe for all the videos and all things. Ramsey Network shows, too, that is great help to us. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

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Welcome.

Back to The Ramsey Show. The holidays are coming up, you guys. And if you want a meaningful gift, make sure to go to to com/store. We have a lot of books there for our $12 sale, including two of Ken's books.

Yes, please buy a lot of those as you think about your loved ones this Christmas season.

Paycheck to to Thank you very much. Paycheck to to Come on. Boy, this is embarrassing. Embarrassing. -i thought proximity principle.

Now we could still be friends. We got it. That was hanging on a.

Line there for a second. What are my two?

Your two are- Exactly.

-kick 'em, is what they like to call it. Know yourself, know your money. Money.

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Theirs. Good job. There you go. Those are in the $12 sale? I got them. Along with a total money makeover, Baby Baby steps We don't need to mention anybody else's. Yeah, go check them out, you guys. Guys. And if you go to rames. Com/store, you'll see my new kids book. I'm glad for what I I have. Sure to check that out for all the little ones in your life. Look at that. That. It's like the pages are thick. It's great quality of a book, too. I'll point that out. I'm going to smell it. Oh.

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Yes. Make sure to check out all those. Again, for the holiday season, get a gift that's going to help somebody.

Did you do audio.

On this, by the way? You know, Amelia did. My daughter read the book. Are you kidding me? I know. I don't know if we're using it for an an audio per se, but we're using it some of the marketing and different things.

Why not? I want to talk to the the big who decided to know on that.

Actually, Caroline was the intro, and she says, I'm glad for what I have by Rachel Crowes.

How is that not the audio book? I'm telling you, if the people speak, speak, wait. Going to release that. I got to talk to Dave.

Yeah, they got it.

I'm going to send him an email.

Oh, so great. That's fun. I know, so fun. All right, we're going to the phones this this hour and got Anna Marie Marie in Albuquerque, Mexico. Hey, Anna Marie, welcome to the show.

Hi.

Hi, how are you? We are doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so I just want to give you a quick bit of information because I might have bearing on the answer you give. So we did the baby steps. I have 1,500 in my savings. We paid off all our debt besides the house. But I don't know if you'll like where I have my 3-6 months of expenses. I have 20,000 in a non-retirement investment account. Okay. And then I'm doing 15 % of my retirement is going into a simple IRA, and part of it is going into IOL. However, my husband doesn't have a retirement account. Account. And then, let's I'll move on. So what we're wanting to do instead of paying off our home early, we're looking to maybe sell it and build a cheaper house so that we can be completely debt free. And then my husband can start getting his retirement. I know that sounds backward, but we paid 345 for our house. Last time it was appraised, it was about 472. Right now, I know it's a little higher in value. We could probably list it out at 500K after talking to a realtor and looking at comps. And so my question is, should we list our house now and use that money to start building the the new home?

Should we use some money that we have saved to start building the new home right now and then sell our house later? I don't know how the market is going to be in the future.

Yeah. How much do you owe on the house? House?

So we're owe about 310.

Okay, so you would get out about 290.

How much are you anticipating the second smaller smaller house? New smaller, cheaper house? What are you expecting that to cost?

I'm.

Expecting it.

To be around around to 175. It'll be actually on the property right next next door the the property. Live on Five Acres. It'll be the Five Acres next door. We thought about doing a mobile home, but we're really talking about building a shophouse.

Don't do a mobile home.

I know. I just feel like like Yeah, I don't.

Feel like that'll be good. Do you own the land that you're going to build on? On? The land is to to a shophouse.

My parents bought that that anticipating building out there, but we're going to buy it from them. We'll pay about $23,000 for the land.

Rachel, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't do this, Anne-Marie. I don't think it's confusing at all. I think you sell your current house, you take the savings from that, what you make on that to pay cash for this next situation, and you're done. I would do that.

I don't see any reason. Reason. Yeah, have to go rent somewhere for a year.

Yeah, that's the hard part, is where.

Would we live in the the income? Yeah, have to rent.

Well, act like there's no place to live in Albuquerque. You're not going to live in a box under a bridge.

Yeah, you'd have to go rent somewhere.

I have to find rentals where we're at, actually.

Well, you'd have to figure that out because I think finding the rental- All right, I'm pulling it up. -is going to be worth it to be able to do this deal because you'll be able to take the equity out of that house, build what you want, and get the land. I mean, all of it pretty much is settled there with cash. Cash. And it's going to force you to do, Anne-Marie, which I think is great, is it's going to force you guys to stay on on because with building, it always can start creeping up. But if you guys hold true and hold fast that, Nope, we're doing this with cash, we'll be completely completely debt And then your husband needs to start retirement even before you guys start building. Why is he not contributing to retirement right now?

Well, he was, but he recently quit his job, and he was only there for a couple of years. And before that, he worked for himself. Now he's working for himself. But we have about $140,000 that we could spend building the house house now whatever we're going to probably.

Be paying for rent is.

Going to be the same as our mortgage.

We're not getting the the Hold on.

We have about about cash. Then we have some vehicles we're selling. That's about $45,000. Here's another thing is I don't want to use the college fund or the money that's in my non-retirement investment account to put put toward the house. Without that, we would have $100,000.

To build. You need to sell. You need to sell your house. Can Can I first? Yes, I would, 100%. Is it.

Just you and your husband?

Yes. Well, no, we have a a daughter. She's seven. Seven. But- I don't come live yet.

And my husband.

Okay, so you're in such a hurry to build this thing. In your whole big excuse as well, it's hard to find rent. Are you in the greater Albuquerque area?

No, we're actually in a rural area. I mean, it's not the town of Albuquerque. It's in New Mexico, but it's in a.

Smaller town. Okay, but the renting renting But.

You can.

Find a place to rent. Yeah, and it's only for a short period of time. Small amount of time. For 6-8 months is what you.

Guys are doing. Then you have all the cash. There's none of this. Well, we got to pull from this account and that account. I'm exhausted listening.

It's just hard because we have to move to a completely different place and.

Move twice. For six months.

We're building right next to our house.

For.

Six months. It doesn't sound like you're going to take our advice, so that's okay.

For six months. No, that's Anna Marie, for six months is what we're saying. It's six six months. Not six years. It's not even a full year. For six months. So you commute to the.

The build.

Sure it's all going going okay. The the address your daughter stays in the same school system. It's all all right. But for six months, that- that- She homeschools, Okay, perfect. Well, perfect. She homeschools. It's great. So again, the inconvenience of maybe having to drive an extra 20, 30 minutes away is worth it just to do a cash deal. And that there's no debt, there's no no involved, there's nothing. Nothing. And have it. You have the equity in your house to do it. It. And to mention, it's going to keep you guys on track, which I think is really important. But you guys need to be looking at this. This. And in a great spot. You have money, you have emergency fund, the 55,000 could be your emergency fund. Don't touch that. You have some investments here. You're doing your Roth. You're all doing it great. You're just switching houses, which is a dream, Anne-Marie. That's a dream. That's what people want. They want that.

Here's the other thing, Anne-Marie. You're just assuming that everything is going to go exactly the way you think it's going to go. I just got news for you, and you're probably chuckling right now on hold. You know that doesn't happen. This way, if you do it the way we're telling you to do it, then there's no stress. Yes, there's a bit of inconvenience, but that's just part of change anyway. I would just make this clean and easy. I think the way to do that is sell, rent, build, move. It's clean, easy. I was stressed out listening to the process. I don't want you to be.

Stressed out. Yeah.

You don't need to be. There's no need to be. You guys have done a great job, by the way. We have a little bit of fun there. Well done. But you guys have put yourself in a position to be able to do this as.

Rachel said. Absolutely. Absolutely. Job. Absolutely. Congratulations. Thanks for calling. Welcome back.

To The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruz joins me in studio this hour. Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:13-14. One thing I do for getting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press press on the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Our quote of the day from Mary Mary Ash, Never give up because you never know if the next try is going to be the one that works.

There.

You go. Is that Mary Kay, as in the Mary Kay Kay Oh, there you go.

She knows. She has some good quotes, I'm sure, with business.

Got herself a pink Cadillac, too. Is that what that is? Did I get that right? Yeah. Oh, Oh, I got nervous when I threw that out there.

That was good. That was good. Some Mary Kay Kay sales what those people have done.

Yes, they have.

All right, so we're going to close out this hour with Molly in Dallas. Hey, Molly, welcome to the show. Show.

Hi. You so much for having me. I'm really excited to be on the.

Show right now.

Oh, I'm so glad. Well, we're excited to.

Talk to you. We're glad you called. How can we help?

Thank you so much. I have two questions regarding the scenario that I'm in, and I don't know how much information is going to be pertinent. The bare bones right now is that I am currently working against an insurance, a car insurance company for a car accident I was in. It's five years ago this month. It's been forever. Forever. Good, I was not at fault. It's been terrible, but I was not at fault. Their insured was texting and driving, and it took three years just to get back to a medical baseline for me. Oh, my gosh. So I'm really grateful I'm not not disabled. Really great boy. I didn't lose a limb or lose a a life. I still, on paper, I will not be healed from my injuries, but I know Jesus is my healer, so so I don't about it. So moving forward, I'm negotiating, and they have agreed to cover all of my medical treatment, my injuries, and all these medical deaths that have worked up. So I'm no longer represented by an attorney, but I I an attorney working on my case. So I have all of my bills, all of my liens lined up.

And so they're offering me just under under for medical bills and lost wages. And I come before you today wondering about the best strategy for negotiating the pain and suffering aspect of it, because they offered me less than five dollars a day for the last five years, and they're really, really low balling in that area. And I don't really know how to advocate for myself in a way that's stern but fair. I don't know what fairness looks like like that.

Well-.

It's a great question.

-let me jump in on the last part of that. The fairness piece, I don't think that you're a dishonest person. I think that fair is you being honest about what your care is going to cost. I think if you're going to represent yourself, which I don't recommend, but if you're going to, then I think you got to come up with a number based on... If I was in your situation and we'd sit down and go, Okay, all right, what is my ongoing care? If I've got some physical therapy, therapy, if I've some follow-ups here, maybe some potential procedures, surgeries, whatever that is to the best of your ability, you've got to be able to put that out on paper and you've got to approve that. You've got got doctors and all all and signing off on that. That's how you would go to the insurance company and go, Look, this $5 a day business, whatever you're going to come up with there, let me just tell you what my healthcare costs are for continuing care. That's where I would start so that you actually... It's not about about it's about about facts. Facts. This is, in fact, what it's going to cost.

You should be covering this. But Rachel, I'm not a fan of trying to... Listen, I am about as as and I love a good Scrum. I love a good fight for righteousness and honesty, and I'd love to get on the phone with these morons. I really would. But even I don't think that's right. I think I need somebody advocate for me who knows some of the ins and outs. It might be worth a good attorney here who's willing to work on a content, meaning you get money, then you get paid.

Yes, right. Have you had an attorney in the past five years, Molly, at all?

Yes. I signed on with an attorney, and then after two years, he changed law practices. I went with him. Then about after a year of him being there, he left law entirely. The practice that I went with inherited my claim, and it was not a good fit at all. We negotiated to just be released from our agreement with no leads to that.

Law firm.

Okay. All right. But let me say this. I don't know if you've ever seen the old movie. This is going to be fun if Rachel's seen this this or She loves when I go into the wayback machine.

Machine.

Grandpa's can. No. You very much. Let me put my cardigan on for a second. He's on a grandpa. All right, the cardigan is is What? Rainmaker with Matt Damon. Let me tell you what I would be doing, and I'm being serious right now. I would find me some young personal injury lawyer who's hungry. I mean, their shoes aren't shined. They don't know how to tie a tie yet, but they're sharp and they're smart, and they only get paid if they go and get money for you. Now, I'm being a little dramatic, but I would find somebody who's hungry, who is sharp, and they want to score because you've got everything laid out. They could quickly get into the situation and go, Oh, we've got something here. But I'd interview two or three of these young, hungry lawyers, somebody who's good, not a complete complete or somebody that has no idea how to tie their shoes. But I would find somebody that's hungry, and if they think they've got a case here and they want to prove something, they want to make some money, I'd turn them loose on this. That's what I would be doing if I were in your shoes.

I don't.

Know, Rachel. Yeah, because I think having an expert, Molly, instead of you having to do this, because I can only imagine getting into legal battles and paperwork. It's a whole other world, and you deserve more. You're looking at it and you're like, This doesn't make mathematical sense to Ken's point. It's not you just being emotional about it. It's truly truly like, bills. These are my bills because of this accident, and insurance is supposed to cover them. I think bringing in somebody to Ken's point is a really good idea, and I I would, because insurance companies, for the most part, they're trying to get as little out, pay out as little as possible. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so what they do. Do. And so you to actually get what's fair to you, it's been five years. That's exhausting. I don't even know if you have the energy to fight this any bit anymore. To get somebody that is fresh on the case, they're looking at everything, and they're able to really help you out because that's-.

We got to flip this, Molly. You know why? Because these insurance companies are going to kick the can down the road to the point that they're just hoping to delay and delay and delay. Then you'll stop.

And.

You'll just give out. You need an absolute pitbull, pitbull, lawyer who is so up in their grill that they go, Let's settle. Let's get done with this. We're tired of hearing from this lawyer. You got to flip the game, and somebody out there will do that for you. In your world, Dallas, Metroplex, there's somebody out there who's looking to make their mark, and I'd find somebody who wants to make you their hero. I really do. That's what I.

Would do. Yeah, for sure. Especially when you get into these niche areas, you guys. Molly's case obviously is a very specific one with a car accident, insurance company, all of it. But get people who live and breathe this stuff. We say the same thing. If you're doing your taxes, if you're doing your investing, if you're going to be selling your house, we have Ramsey Preferred Coaches to help you even with your financial situation all over the country and ELPs with real estate. Find these people in these areas to help you. You don't have to be the only one in your entire life. If you're going to go work out for the first time, you hire a personal trainer. If there's stuff you're working through in your personal life, you hire a therapist to walk through. You find people who are experts in this stuff. And that includes, when you're in a situation like Molly, that an insurance company is bullying you and stringing you along for five years, and you don't get the money that you need to cover everything. Because like you said, $29,000 over five years and through all the medical stuff that you have documentation of, that's what you deserve.

That's the justice in it. I think there's power in that, having people that know what they're doing. By the way.

Bringing this back.

Full circle.

Circle. Rainmaker came out in 1997. I'm not a grandpa for knowing that. Have you not seen the movie?

I was going to say, when you said Rain, I was going to say- I'll.

Tell you you what. A big reader.

-with Dennis Hoffman.

Dennis.

Hoffman? Oh, boy. Dustin Hoffman?

Shoot. No, not. It was Matt Damon and and.

Danny I just got... I got shit... My head hit me more like, like, Rachel. I don't know. I don't know.

Bless her heart. Hey, you know what, though? Let me tell you this. I read. You're a reader. It's a John Grisham novel. So go get that.

Fine. You could go get it at the library because you like to save a buck or two and take that on the old summer vacation.

That's Sharon Ramsey that checks- You're not a library? Nope, Nope.

I not. Sharon, your mother still checks out books at the library? Yes. God bless her.

She is a treasure. Yes.

She's a treasure, folks.

Folks. Or give me a book, and it's a library in Minnesota. I'm like, Where did you get this book? She's like, It was a used book off Amazon. I'm like, God bless you, Mom. God bless you. She's awesome. Well, thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, America, for for listening. Ken, you for being a great co-host. You bet. And we'll be back. If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on on Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization. One episode could change your business. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.