Don't miss our brand new virtual event happening this Tuesday. I'm sharing my personal playbook on investing and real estate. Get your tickets@ramsaysolutions.com. events. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225 number one best selling author and host of the Doctor John Deloney Show, Ramsey personality. Doctor John Deloney is my co host today as we answer your questions about your life and about your money. Thank you for joining us. Anthony is with us in Canada to start this hour. Hi, Anthony. How are you?

I'm good. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, I got a question. So I have, I sold my rental properties. It was a bit of a, I was under the belief that it was a passive income, and it really wasn't. So we got out of it. Got out of it at the right time, I think.

And you mean you had to actively manage the rental property?

Yeah.

You mean the tenants don't just do what they're supposed to do all the time?

I'm sure they were calling me and.

They wanted, like, repairs done and stuff.

Anthony, I just have to disagree with you. I've watched plenty of tick tock videos. I think you're out of line here.

That was sarcasm, Anthony. Passive income sarcasm. I'm glad you realized. So you sold it, Anthony. I'm sorry. And go ahead.

I also watched those tick dog videos, which got me into it.

Thus our point.

Yeah.

Okay.

I have $240,000 coming in, and I have fully stocked emergency fund. We're giving money. We have our, we call resp for my kids education. We have no debt other than our mortgage, which we have 140,000 left. But. But we have, we've been paying off, like, this year we paid off 60,000. I think next year we could probably pay off 50, 60,000. Like, we're on track to pay it off, but I could just pay it off tomorrow.

Good.

And do it in the interesting.

Do it.

But, like. Okay, so you're so focused right now. I know.

What are you, what are you gonna do with the money if you don't invest it? Okay, so it's like borrowing 140,000 on your house. It's paid for to invest money. If you had a paid for house, would you borrow 140 on it to go invest it? No, same thing.

Yeah. I just, I keep looking at, like, since we are so focused on the.

If you're focused, pay it off.

Retirement.

Yeah, pay it off.

So in 30 years, I keep doing, like, the compound interest calculator, and it will be a difference of, like, a million bucks.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is that on TikTok, too?

Yeah. Your compound interest calculator. Never met a, never met a millionaire. Because let me tell you how it works in the real world, okay? In the real world, as we studied the largest study of millionaires ever done, 10,167 of them, none of them precisely zero, said we became wealthy by borrowing on our home to invest and compound interest calculator. Zero. Zero. Not one. The same number of millionaires that said they got rich with airline miles using their credit card. Zero. Not one. The same number that said they got rich using whole life life insurance. Zero, not one. We couldn't find one anywhere that did that. So that's the data that I'm using. And so you. I mean, it's not even statistically significant. It's zero. It's not like, oh, it's 56%. So some dead and some did. It's zero. None did what you're talking about doing. And so, yes, your compound interest calculator is there, but what it's leaving out is risk. And what it's leaving out is the way you walk when you walk into work and you don't have a house payment, your voice changes one octave. When you don't have a house payment.

It's called peace. And you will make different career decisions when you don't have any debt. And you have different relationship issues when you don't have any debt. None of these are quantifiable in your calculator because the borrower is slave to the lender. Think about all the implications of slavery. Only one implication of slavery is mathematical. All the rest are spiritual, physical, relational, psychological, emotional breaking of the spiritual. Think about that and hold on.

I wonder if Dave. I wonder if he has created this new identity that he's a go getter and he just can't picture himself. Some people create chaos because they don't know how to exist when it's peaceful. Now you have to learn.

I think he's honestly analyzing it like he did when he bought the passive income.

Okay.

He just wrong.

He just wrong. Like he was with the passive income.

It's just. It's okay. Yeah, that's how I've learned a lot of stuff when I was wrong. Sometimes I'm wrong, but not as much lately.

But, James, will you clip that real quick?

I used to be wrong a lot more but I'm not wrong as much anymore because when I was wrong, it hurt and I quit doing that wrong stuff, you know, I mean, it's like that. So. And for those of you listening, Anthony was making fun of it and we were too. In case you're missing the point on this, anyone that tells you that real estate, and I own, I don't know, 600 million, $700 million worth of real estate, anybody that tells you real estate is passive income is, is absolutely full of crap. There is nothing passive about owning real estate. If you want passive income, buy an S and P 500 index fund and set it and forget it. And you'll get checking. Checking, you know, the emails will come in and show you what you made. As a matter of fact, in the last twelve months you would have made about 25%, which had been a good run for you, been a nice run in the last twelve months, but that's not normal. But, but I mean, you didn't have to do squat. You didn't have to fix a leaky roof, you didn't have to collect from somebody who lied.

You didn't have to analyze if the next guy moving in was lying. You didn't have to do anything. You just said it and forget it. That's passive real estate is not, there's no, you can't have, you can't even have. I have a blank piece of ground, a piece of dirt. The neighbor texts in here last week and said, those storms that came through some of your trees fell on my lot and knocked over my fence. I can't even have a piece of dirt that has no buildings. That's passive. Even that is active. You know, there's just anything having, you know, so we got to send a guy over there with chainsaws because it's our responsibility. Our stupid tree tore up his nice fence and so I bought a fence and some trees and so, yeah, even that, you know, you can't, yeah, can't.

Even make that up.

Yeah, it's just, you know, there's no way you can get to passive in real estate. It's great investing, but it's anything but passive. I own a bunch of it. I believe in real estate.

Where does that, where does that story come from? I hear it everywhere.

It's the same, it's the natural extension of the bull crap line that the renters are going to pay your payment. It's okay to borrow money because the renter will pay your payment. I'm gonna let the renter pay it off for me. Note it's your payment. And when the renter doesn't pay because he got put in jail for hitting his wife. Oh, that's happened. Yeah. Because he's not working now because he's doing 1129. That be sitting in the local jail. Yeah. Guess what, he doesn't pay. Guess what? You gotta pay it anyway. So that's when you find out it's your payment, not the renter's payment. It's not passive, boys and girls. It's good investment, but it's not passive. This is the Ramsey show, so here's a quick math. There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money. So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use Netsuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system. Netsuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform. So join the more than 37,000 smart businesses like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to Netsuite.

And right now, you can download Netsuite's KPI checklist absolutely free@netsuite.com. ramsey. That's netsuite.com ramsey. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co host today. Thank you for being with us, America. Well, apparently enough of you people made enough noise out there that the folks here at Ramsey have officially lost their minds because I am now in the t shirt business.

I'm wearing one.

So look at this. Look at this.

Yeah, we have food at home.

We have food at home. We have better than I deserve t shirts and yetis and hats. We have lived like no one else. Tumblers, in case you want to tumble, if you carry that around, you will tumble over. It's so big. And carry around, like I'm saying. And these sweatshirts that say debt, that they're debt free. The debt free t sweatshirts are very cool. And the materials, all this super soft, nice, uh, expensive, um, whatever t shirt material. It's not like your cheesy t shirt at the, at the booth in the flea market thing, you know, this is like the good stuff. So there it is. You got a story. You got to want a better. Better than I deserve hat. And, uh, yeah.

Maybe the worst pitch.

I've ever seen sales job that has ever been done.

I would like, America, if you have recently bought a shirt in a flea market and you are not happy with your purchase right into the show, we'd love to hear from you.

Yeah, we holler right now and we'll get you a better than I deserve replacement. And, yeah, I just. If you got $20, I would rather you buy, like, John's book. Cause that'll change your life right there. Do you have it or you bought my book and that'll change your life. Right. But if you. If you got money and you want to say that you're debt free and better than you deserve and you got food at home and that kind of stuff, we got shirts that'll help you do that and all@ramsaysolutions.com. store and you can wear it while.

You'Re doing your side hustle to get out of debt.

It just had. Yeah. And then you know what? And you could do, like, doordashing where I've got food at home.

That's. That's.

That would be. That would be oxygen. Moronic.

There you go.

Yeah. That would be screwed up. Yeah. Probably cost you if you wear it better than I deserve. Now, I will tell you this. In the old days on the show, when it. Back when it was just talk radio, we had a bazillion people delivering pizzas. This was before Doordash and all that stuff was there. And you say, go get a p. Go get a job delivering pizzas. Great job. You can make $1,500 a month working four or five nights a week, and you still can, by the way, delivering pizzas and. But we had the whole Ramsey tribe out there trained to say, if the pizza guy or gal says, how you doing? Better than I deserve, that means they're working that side hustle to get out of debt, you have to double their tip.

Ooh, I like that.

It was, like, code. It was tribal code.

Let's bring that back. I like that.

Okay. If they're wearing a better than I deserve hat, if they're wearing the clothes.

You have to triple the tip. If they just say, better than I deserve, you got to double it.

There you go.

I like that.

You know, because you got to pay for their t shirt. That's it.

That's.

Now we got. Shouldn't be buying. Here we go. All right.

Is I'm wearing the shirt, and it's comfortable. That's all you need to know.

It is comfortable. Is very. They're very comfortable. I can't wear them because that's, like, really weird. They'll be, like, wearing a shirt that says, my name is Dave and I'm great or something. I mean, if I wear a shirt with my own saying, you wear that shirt, that's really horrible. I just couldn't. I just can't people go, oh, you're, you're wearing your. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. So. And I really wouldn't blame them. That would be accurate. Isabella is in San Diego. Hi, Isabella, how are you?

Hi.

I'm doing good.

How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

I was just wondering. My question essentially is how do I. I'm just looking to see how I can get. Use my extra income and set myself up for finance for the best financial future I can. I'm 22. I just graduated college last week with a public health degree. So I'm really excited about that. And I rent here in San Diego and as you know, it's super expensive. But yeah.

Did you get your big girl health, public health job?

Not just yet. I'm still, I currently serve on the weekends to help with my, to get extra money and then I work with the, I'm working with the city, but it's still a minimum wage, you know, 35 hours now.

So where's the part where I'm excited about the degree?

I know. Hopefully using it in the future. I mean, it's the excited part of the degree that it does pay well, but it usually requires a master's. So I'm hoping I could pay for that. I have no debt. I paid, my mom helped me through college and I paid half of it too.

Good for you.

Thank you.

I would go get a job in the next six weeks in your field that will pay for your masters as a part of their benefits package.

Okay. And I was wondering, would I still keep the serving job just to help with the extra income because I have the goal of retiring on my 401K. Currently have three grand in that right now. But I just, I guess a little nervous.

You have zero debt.

Zero debt.

Okay. How much money do you have in savings?

4000 in cash and 4000 in a saving account.

Okay. All right. I want you to build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. In your case, $10,000 or $15,000 that you don't touch for anything but emergencies. And then let's work on the career side of this equation to where you're not making minimum wage and serving because that's not a plan when you're 30. Agreed?

Agreed.

Yeah. The 30 year old you needs you to needs the 22 year old you to have a plan.

And you've got the cart way before the horse right now. You gotta get a job.

Yeah. Yeah. You got to get your income and then get settled into that 401K. Rhythm is a great thing to do. And then start saving above your emergency fund for your first home purchase and you'll be well on your way to wealth building. But it's going to be dependent upon your income. And if you think the field that you're in is going to require a master's, go get one, but let somebody else pay for it, right? They do all the time. You say that. You say that like you don't believe me. The believe me in your world, they do it all the time.

I just make it a little nervous because I feel like with the masters, like if I. My mom really wants me to do it now, she's like, we can budget for. It's okay. It's a small load, but I don't know. Or just go get.

Go get a job at the university.

Why don't you go get a job.

At the university for it?

Now, I'm not suggesting waiting ten years. I'm suggesting doing that the next five or six weeks.

I guess I never really looked into that.

That's what you need do, kiddo.

And you can get one in your field, but you can also go get a job at a local university, and they'll have some sort of tuition reimbursement program and then get yourself a master's there, and they'll get an employee that they get to keep for two to three years, and you'll get your master's degree paid off. It's a great.

And it doesn't need to be a big, fancy school. I mean, the cheapest possible school in your area, you know, that would hire you to mop the floors and give all their employees free tuition or hire you to be a graduate assistant, a resident hall director.

You get your housing taken care of, too. And all this is going to come at a cost, but you end up with a master's degree in a public service field and you don't owe anybody any money. Then you can actually do real service without wondering where you're going to sleep.

And you start on it next week without having to budget out of your mom's right stuff to pull it off. Yeah. You need to be thinking about your career that way, rather than I can't do my career until I get a masters. Instead, integrate the getting of the masters into your career moves. That's what we're saying. And it really can be done, kiddo. I know. I can tell from the way you. Your voice tone was that you didn't think it can be done. But believe me, John's got a PhD in higher ed.

I did it.

Yeah. Oh, you did it.

I did that.

Oh, yeah, there's that one of the PhD.

I worked at a university for my master's degree. No, I paid for the second one, but my master's degree I worked at a university and they helped. And then my. The PhD, yeah, it was largely taken care of with tuition reimbursement program at the university where I work.

So that's a pretty standard thing. And that actually happens, by the way, boys and girls out there in medical school, too, there's MD PhD programs that they're. They're very hard to get in, but if you can, Duke has several, for example, where you, again, work on campus. You're a TA or a GA, and, you know, you're working grading papers and other stuff while you're doing your work. And. Oh, you're not supposed to have a site. Listen, they'll do it. They'll do it and they do it all the time while you work on this stuff. And that's, you know, the way a lot of people get postgraduate stuff paid for. It's excellent for undergrad, but not very many undergrads qualify for the actual work.

Or if you have a. Like an associates in nursing, you can. Your hospital might pay for you to get your bachelor's or help you to get your.

Your.

Whatever you need. So it always. It never hurts to ask that question or to really scour the earth. And you might have to move, you might have to work at a different school or work at a different hospital, whatever, but always ask that question and you're thinking about the five year from now, you.

The alternative is weight tables and work minimum wage, and you and your mom scratch together enough nickels out of the corner of the couch to go. Go get your masters and then start your life. I don't like that alternative. This is the Ramsey show.

This show is sponsored by better help. Hey, it's doctor John Deloney. One of the most common questions I get is how to get something off your chest, maybe something that happened to you, something somebody said to you or something you've done that you're worried about, because bringing it to light will disrupt your entire life. Getting things off your chest is important, but it's hard to know where to start. Therapy can be a safe, effective place to get things off your chest, to learn how to say hard things out loud, and to figure out how to work through whatever is weighing you down. I've been blessed to have a great therapist who helps me get those heavy things off my chest. So if you're thinking of starting therapy. Give betterhelp a try. It's flexible because it's online, so you can suit it to fit your schedule. You just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Get things off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. H Dash e dash p.com deloney.

Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co host today. Come by and visit us anytime you'd like here at Ramsey. We're about 12 miles south of downtown Nashville in a wonderful town called Franklin, Tennessee. And the lobby is open to the public. We do this show on the glass from one to four central time Monday through Friday. The homemade cookies and the coffee are on us, and so the place smells like Mama's kitchen when you walk in, not corporate America. And so come in and hang out with us. We'd love to have you. And in the middle of that lobby is an official thing called the debt free stage, and it's where people do their debt free screams. Gregory and Emily are on it, which can only mean one thing, that they're here to do a debt free screen. Where do you guys live?

Tampa, Florida.

Welcome. Good to have you. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off?

225,000 in the last two years.

Love it. And your range of income during that two years?

It was around 220 to 250.

Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I'm a project manager, real estate development.

And I'm a nurse.

Very good. Great careers. Well done. Fabulous income. $225,000. You get after it. Man, your ratios. You guys were on beans and rice. That's pretty serious. What was the 225? What'd you pay off?

The house.

Oh, I'm looking at weirdos. Paid for house. Love it. Way to go, you guys. Way to go. Excellent. So what in the world? What's this house worth?

Probably around 550.

Very cool. And how much in your retirement accounts and nest egg?

Just under 600.

So I'm looking at baby steps. Millionaires, too. How old are you, weirdos?

I just turned 43.

Wow.

I'm 40.

All right. And you're a millionaire, and you don't have a house payment. That's what I mean by weird. That's weird.

Very weird.

So strange. I love it.

So what happened? Why'd you decide to pay the house off?

Well, our story began in 2007 when I was traveling a lot for work, listening to the radio, hearing Ramsey. And then 2010, I got the book, and I'm like, we got to read this book. I've been listening to this guy for years now, and Emily read the book, and then she's like, we got to sell the car.

Oh, and way to go, Emily.

I was like, I'm not selling my car.

Sorry I made you read the book.

And then six months later, I read the book, and she overheard me talking to my mom, saying, we're selling the car. She's like, what do you mean, we're selling the car? That was my idea six months ago.

She's right. It was her idea. Like, it. So, that started the whole process.

Right? And we got. We had about 100,000 in debt that we paid off within two years back then. And we've been working the steps over the last 13 years. And the last two years, we. We knocked out the house.

Yeah, that's about the typical timeline, although y'all are a little younger than normal, but typically, it takes people somewhere around ten years to do the whole plan, and that's debt free. Then build your emergency fund, then be putting 15% away, then pay on the house extra, and then knocked out the house really fast. You leaned into the house, though. This is. These numbers are not. You sacrificed to do this quick.

And the kids college fund, they're set. So, I mean, we got. This is generational.

Wow. Way to go, y'all.

What sparked this in you the last two years to pay your house off?

We've been on the plan, and we said we just need to focus and focused. Intensity and times God equals momentum, and we just made it happen.

I love it. Very cool. Well, congratulations, you two. How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? I mean, millionaires at 40, pretty amazing.

It's crazy.

I mean, you did this. I mean, everybody knows there's too much inflation. Everybody knows the stock market's crazy. Everybody knows. Everybody knows. Everybody knows it can't be done. But you did it. I'm so impressed. Well done. You swam upstream in a culture full of toxic negativity.

That's right.

Way to go, you guys.

What's it like going to work with your fellow nurses who are still paying back their school loans 25 years after taking them out?

It's crazy.

Yeah, you got to get them to sell the car.

All right, so what's the biggest fight y'all got in over the last decade, as y'all were navigating this?

So, when we first started, we were always going out to eat. And then she's like, well, we can't go out to eat because there's no more money. I'm like, what do you mean there's no more money? We have, you know, this was before we started the plan, and that's when we were like, we're fighting over money. We need to get serious. And I think it was over food.

Honestly, over you wanting to go out to eat. That's what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. Let's get right down to it. The guy whose idea was to sell the car after his wife had the.

Idea, that's the most typical husband thing.

It really is.

You guys are so fun. Way to go. I'm proud of you.

Thank you.

Who was cheering you on?

Our kids.

Our kids. Our parents.

Mm hmm.

Family.

So you had some good support then. Anybody call you crazy?

Everybody.

Everybody.

We.

All those broke people. If broke people are making fun of your financial plan, boys and girls, you are on track. So just tell you how that works. Way to go, y'all. Way to go.

If you are sitting down at a table with a couple who's just turned 33 and 30, and they're starting to fight about dinners, they're starting to fight about stress. They're starting to fight about what soccer league little Timmy's gonna play. And what would you tell them?

I would ask them if they think there's a problem, because if they don't think there's a problem, then there's no problem. I think that's been a lot for us when we've been talking to people over the years. You gotta. If they don't think there's a problem and that they just want to live in that cycle on the hamster wheel, then they're never gonna be able to change. So I think it's a hard issue, maybe.

And if they look at you and say, yeah, we're ready to change, can you help? What would you tell them? What's the most important thing that they could do?

Get on a budget.

Live act your wage.

There you go. Live on less than you make a concept congress can't grasp. Way to go, you guys. Wow. Very impressive. Very impressive. Very impressive. Cool, cool, cool. So the book, that was the whole thing? Total money makeover book and just listen to the radio?

That's right. Yeah. We just started doing the envelopes and paying everything with cash. And what else do we do?

That's pretty simple. It's just pretty simple. I mean, there's nothing complicated here, is there?

I think that's the biggest problem with it is it's too simple. People that are way too smart think that it's too.

There must be a, you know, must be a shortcut.

Shortcut. There's no shortcut.

Yeah, no shortcut to any place that's worth going. Beverly Sills said, way to go. Good job, guys. All right. Hey, we've got a couple of years of every dollar subscription for you. Pay for your every dollar. Budgeting, since budgeting is a big deal to y'all and you can either use them or pass them around to get somebody else started, however you want to do. Our gift for you to say thank you for coming all the way from Tampa, Florida to do your debt free scream. Gregory and Emily, Tampa, Florida. Ten years later. The last two years, they paid off $225,000 net worth, approaching one and a half million dollars at 40 years old. Following the baby steps. There it is, ladies and gentlemen. It's not any harder. It's not any easier than that. It's harder than doing it the other way. But it's easier than doing it the other way. You guys count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Three, two, one.

Glory to God.

We're debt free.

Yeah. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. That's how they do it in Tampa, Florida.

I'm putting a note down. There's got to be a psychological construct, and maybe some of my fellow nerds can write into the, in the show, leave, leave a comment. But there has to be some sort of psychological path that we feel like the more complex it is, the more right it must be.

Oh, yeah.

And if it's just too easy, then it's just too easy. We're going to pass on that.

Actually, I was working through the content for the investing essential seminar that George and I are doing tomorrow night and the next night. And one of the principles I'm going to tell folks is that in studying and hanging out with people with 510, 20, $30 million net worth, the thing that has always kind of taken me aback is how primitive and simple their investment is.

So simple. Yeah.

They just, they have no desire to be complicated, and I think that's how they got all their money.

The same with people who are physically fit, who have great marriages. It's usually pretty simple.

Yeah, it's pretty simple. Like be nice, be kind.

Exercise, eat less.

Nice, eat less.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's hard. Hard. This is the Ramsey show. If recent times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen and we have to deal with them. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 25 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance. That's because Zander is a broker that works for you. They search all the top term life plans out there and find you the best rates and make the process of getting coverage quick and easy. You can apply online or over the phone in just minutes. And they offer plans with super competitive rates that dont require a medical exam, making it faster and simpler than ever to get the coverage you need. I trust Zander for all my insurance needs and you can trust them too. Dont put off getting term life insurance until its too late. Go to zander.com or call 803 564282 for a fast and easy quote today. Thats zander.com or call doctor John Deloney Ramsey, personality is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. America open phones at 888-825-5225 Cory is with us in Washington, DC.

Hi Corey, how are you?

Hi. I'm well, thanks. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

I am trying to figure out how to get out of stuck situation. I'm living. I went through a divorce, which was a really terrible relationship, and jumped into my mother's home for the time being, which has been way too long now. And I, in the process, I came into her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan, which I've since paid off.

You paid off all the credit card debt and all the, all the, and the car? Both?

Yes. All that.

Way to go. How long have you been there?

I have been here for six years.

Oh.

So I paid that off and I've saved and I went back to school all in that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was. What are you making now? I make 118.

Why are you still there?

Because this market here, I started looking in 2020 for homes. I've been outbid several times by like $40,000.

How old are you?

45.

Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something? You're debt free and you make $120,000 a year? You can rent something?

Yeah. The rentals around here for a three bedroom, I have three kids and myself for a three bedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So at that point I thought I was just throwing away money. My income has gone up each year pretty substantially. So I keep feeling like I'm chasing the carrot I get to, like, a point where I could potentially make it work. And then the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up, and of course, the interest rates are up. So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfortably into. So now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home?

No. The secret to happiness is lower expectations. You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.

Understood.

You probably won't be able to catch that carrot. And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school, living with her grandmother.

Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to go to school.

The point is that you have painted yourself a world where you have decided that you are trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

Okay.

And you're not with.

So I get paid bi weekly and I get paid about $2,600. Again, this. My income just went up in January. I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. So with that, what can I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills.

If I understood you right, you're debt free and you have how much saved?

About six. It's close to 60.

And you make $118,000 a year. And you have three children. Did I understand all of that right?

Yes.

And you did all of that in six years, coming out of a broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you.

And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing.

Well done. Well done. You've really accomplished a lot here. And the thing I think I'm hearing, and I might be wrong, Corey, but I think I'm hearing that, that probably in the marriage and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in, or both nicer than the home that you can afford now. And you're having trouble with that?

Probably, yeah. I definitely looked at lowering some of my living.

I'm used to the home that your mom is in now. Did you grow up in that home?

No.

Okay. So the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in.

No.

And you're not damaged because of that?

Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, this house is okay. It's not, like, fantastic or anything like that.

Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market?

No.

Okay. That's your childhood home, though you might, and your children will not be damaged if they move into a home. That's not something off of the, the real estate channel. On being redone by Chip and Joanna. I want you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life, whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property that lines up with all of your wants but does cover your needs. But I think you've set, you're. I think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick and I'm gonna pull the carrot back in and grab ahold of it and take a bite out of it.

I think it's probably both. And it's. It's moved the carrot out. And the housing market has gotten tough, especially in DC.

I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market, make $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not. I mean, DC is super expensive, right? You're going to be outside of DC, you're not buying a place. You're not buying a place in DC proper, you're not buying a place in LA or San Francisco. That used to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it, but not anymore. And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market where your expectations, based on your fabulous progress that you've made, I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

And I. David, this is like a thing that I want to be emphatic about. There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom who's a warrior, who is extraordinary.

Yes.

The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't. They didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was. It wasn't any of those things. It was. I had two parents that always scratched and clawed and both of them had midlife career changes. And I watched them flourish and lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else, and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids. And it's not something you can buy. It's something you witness. And so go get a townhome if that's all you can afford and two of your kids can share rooms, and they're gonna be fine because they've got an incredible mom who loves them and they're watching you blaze a path. That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy.

The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in counseling because of that alone is zero.

There's a lot of kids, I'm telling you right now. I just had this conversation this weekend in Utah with the behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want, whenever they want it. And then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a.

Different opinion about something, because somebody said, oh, the axis of the world does not run through the top of your little head. Who knew?

I've talked to every residence hall director on planet Earth that I've ever met, and I've always asked them, just privately shared rooms or single rooms. I've never had one say. The right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms, their own bathrooms, and their own whirlpool tub. So I have to make these single ones. But if it was, if I was a king for a day.

You mean there's not a skyline?

Everybody has to share a room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No. Yes, kids can share rooms. They're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that.

So, yeah, you've given them a gift, Corey.

They can change schools. It's okay. It's okay.

You've given them a gift by stepping out of a horrible situation and then standing knee deep in that manure and flourishing.

It's amazing.

And using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. I think your real estate is just. I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So that's going to mean you either that you change probably the neighborhood you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting. And it may be a long commute, it may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things. But, and that's not to say, I think that Washington, DC, real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically crazy. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number is 888-25-5225 Doctor John Deloney, number one bestselling author and host of the Doctor John Deloney show, is my co host today. Open phones at 8888-2552-2582-5522-5 Penny is with us. Penny is in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Penny. How are you?

I'm okay. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

I listen to you on occasion, and I hear a lot about how you encourage couples, spouses to combine their incomes. And that's one of the better ways to build wealth, is when you have your spouse with you, you combined everything. And I'm feeling very emotional and discouraged. I am 54 and I make 50,000 a year, and I just don't have a spouse. And so I feel very afraid.

Are you afraid of the money? Are you afraid of growing old alone? Like, where's that fear rest? Or is it all of it?

It's. I love the job. I do. But I'm afraid I'm not going to have money for retirement. And I apologize.

No, don't apologize. Is that fear real? I mean, is it like, if you looked at the math problem of it all.

Well, I'm hoping you can tell me that I'm overreacting. I don't think I am, but. So I rent an apartment. It's about $1,700 a month. Before that, I was just renting rooms at Airbnbs.

What do you do for a living?

I'm in human resources.

Human resources? Doing what?

Yes, onboarding.

Okay. And you make 50,000 a year, and you're 54 years old?

Yes.

Have you ever been married?

Yes, I've been married. Divorced for a decade.

Okay. All right. Let me go back in step, though, in the way you came on the air. And I want to make sure when we're talking with couples, we think it's imperative that couples combine their finances. We are not saying it is imperative to be married to build wealth. There are lots of very accomplished single ladies and gentlemen that build wealth on their own. It's. What we're talking about is a marriage issue of combining your finances when you're married, but when you're single, and it does not prohibit you from becoming wealthy.

Okay.

Okay. So let's just take that off the table. We never said that, but it. I mean, I've just been talking to you for a moment, so I don't know you inside and out. It kind of feels like that you're still really hurting from the divorce. Am I wrong?

Yeah, I am.

Like, your heart was broken, and there's not been a lot of healing in ten years.

That's true.

Okay. All right. Because I'm trying to find out. I mean, you're really sad about that, and I understand that, and I don't blame you. I would be sad, too, if. Because I told Sharon if she leaves, I'm going with her. So. But. Because I don't think I could do it. You know, she said, you know, if I die, you'll be dead in a month. So it's like she. Like she could find the way the refrigerator. But, yeah, so the. Yeah, I. So I understand. You know, I get. I'm poking fun, not at you, but at myself. But the. I get how what you've been through is very hard for you. Okay, so. But the answer to your overall concern is, can you prosper on $50,000 as a single lady in Phoenix, Arizona, paying $1,700 rent? Yes. You can retire with dignity. That is the answer to your question. Mathematically, you can. If you made 100,000, would it be better? Yes. If you made 200,000, would it be even better? Yes. Okay. But, you know. Or if you married someone who made 300,000, would it be even better? Yes. Mathematically, all of those are facts. But that doesn't mean that the normal progression of you doing onboarding in HR and moving up the ladder in an HR field, studying, becoming very proficient, very self confident, healing from your broken heart, having square shoulders, a nice smile, and a square jaw and sticking your nose into stuff and making a difference in this world, you will make a lot more money over time doing all of that.

And during that time, you will be investing and saving, and you can become. You can build a large enough nest egg to be okay. But I think I hear under this, just this. This hurt that might be holding you back on a couple of those areas. Am I. Am I just feeling this with my heart? Okay.

No, that's true. I think I've come to that realization over the past couple years, and I have been grieving that whole relationship. So I'm acknowledging that. Yes. But then I still go back to the math of wanting to buy a home and I couldn't qualify for enough.

Yeah, it'd be tough. Phoenix market. Phoenix market's expensive. Unless you had a big downstroke, you're going to be. You're going to be driving from the outskirts to get a property cheap enough to do that on 50k, that's going to be tough.

Yes, sir. I looked even on the outskirts.

Yeah, it's gonna be tough where I'd.

Be driving an hour.

Well, you can't drive north because it gets more expensive when you go north.

Right.

Going south is out of Phoenix.

I mean. Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Don't. Don't head towards anything like a red rock. Stay away from those. They're very expensive.

What is it? What is it about Phoenix that where you feel like you're stuck?

Why do you have to stay there?

Actually would love to be in the south, but I have two children. They're actually going to be seniors in a week. They'll be finishing their junior year, so they have one more year of high school. So I really don't want to do anything.

And then they're going to be going away to college and you're going to be by yourself.

You can be all by yourself.

Yeah. And they're going to go somewhere.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're about to get left again.

Yes.

And your body has a gps pin and get the time I got left last time and it's sounding every alarm you got.

My son said he will go wherever I want to go as long as he can get a job.

Because that son learned that his job is to make sure mom is okay, because nobody else was, and that's not his job.

Right.

Right. And, hey, mom, you're allowed to be sad. My son's about to graduate and I laugh as I use that word. He's about to be done with 8th grade. And if I think about it for 30 seconds, I'll get all choked up.

Right.

Right. You're not crazy. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you.

Hey, we're gonna. We're gonna do two things, okay? One is I'm gonna put you into financial peace university so you can get your handle around the math. And two is I'm gonna send you a copy of John's book, building a non anxious life, because there's several of the points in that book that are exactly where you're sitting. And it's going to be very helpful to you. You will read it in two days when you get it, I promise you. If you don't, you're messing up. And I'm going to give it all to you as our gift. You're going to be okay, Penny. It's going to be better than it feels like.

You're a good mom.

This is the Ramsay show. Doctor John Deloney Ramsey, personality, is my co host today. Open phone 825-5225 proverbs says, hope deferred makes the heart sick. When you don't have hope, it's a sickness of heart. And the odd thing is, the proverb continues, it says, but when desire comes, it is the tree of life. So the answer to hopelessness is a desire. And really, what you end up is you end up figuring out what the core cause of your loss of hope is. And then you get into it. If the actual thing is math, then you look at the math. If the actual thing is a wound that is. That is real, then you gotta look at that wound, and that may be causing you to not see the math. Like our last caller.

Yeah. The only way to healing is through the pain. I have a friend who just had just the heartbreaking misfortune of losing a child. And I'll remember a line he told me at the memorial service forever. He said, most people spend their entire life doing everything they can to go around and avoid pain. And he looked at me and said, I didn't get that choice. And so him and his, his wife held hands and walked directly through it. And that's. That's. That's the only way to healing. So, yeah, you're right. Hopeless hope is always on the other side. And that's why you have to have people in your life who've gone before you. And you might not be able to see it in the darkness, but you can hear their voice. You can see their tiny little light. And I'm just gonna keep going that way. Cause that's where it is.

And sometimes it's math. It's an odd way. I mean, okay, if I save a month at this age, I'm gonna have x. Yeah. And x is okay.

And sometimes it's ten years out.

Yeah.

I remember having my heart stop. And when I did the math and was like, this ten years, I'm going to be okay. At this current dollar amount, at this current saving rate, that's a scary thing, but that's the path. Let's go.

Yeah. Then game on.

That's right.

Game on. Yeah. The old country song. If you're going through hell, keep on going.

Keep on going.

That's it.

Keep on going.

Today's question comes from Isaac in Minnesota.

All right. Isaac writes, how do we promote the baby steps to the friends and family when it feels like we cheated? The process, a small inheritance, propelled us into baby steps four, five and six. And it feels like we got a get out of jail free card. We've been hustling in baby step two for two years with our only consumer debt being credit cards. We paid off ten k while cash flowing, our first baby. And some car repairs. We budget every month, live below our means, and buy things at the speed of cash. But it feels like we cheated. Does an inheritance undermine the value of our financial testimony? I don't think so.

The thing is this, you only have one story. It's your story. That's it. And really, nobody can take that away from you.

And this isn't like a catastrophe Olympics, that whoever has the worst situation wins. The goal is that people become free. And y'all got free.

Yeah, that's the story. Do you have to go through bankruptcy in order to learn the lessons that I learned going through bankruptcy? No. Do you have to go through drug rehab to figure out heroin's bad for you? No. Maybe the testimony is you were doing smart stuff and God blessed it. I mean, maybe the testimony is you were walking along and it turns out you're walking on a moving sidewalk and God was pushing along under you while you were doing the right stuff. Because when you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage. Remember that one? That's the testimony. So I can tell you that there's a whole lot of stuff that, as we have built incredible wealth over the last 40 years and built an incredible business, that I look back and I go, I'm really sure I didn't do that by myself. It's not like fake humility or something, or humble brag. It's more like I'm intelligent enough to know I'm not that bright. You know? I mean, like, you're smart enough to know, Isaac in Minnesota, that you didn't do this by yourself, but that doesn't destroy the fact that you were doing smart things along the way and.

And somebody in your family did something smart because they could leave you an inheritance. You come from some, one of y'all comes from a. Somebody who is a saver.

I don't think Rachel has a bad financial testimony, and she's never been in debt.

Well, so this is a. This is a cultural virus, Dave. And here's what it is, okay? We are not allowed to celebrate. If you celebrate, if something good happens, you're bragging, then you're a jerk. You have some sort of privilege that nobody else has. You have some sort of something that isn't fair. The only thing we're allowed to talk about in our culture is when things go bad. I have this. Oh, I've got this. Tony Robbins says it's our greatest addiction as a culture is to problems. Nobody's allowed to walk into a room and say, my weekend was actually pretty good. My kids are healthy, and the air conditioner worked, because then you leave the room and they're like, but if you come in the room and you say, man, can you believe it out there?

He's so real.

Everybody thinks you're so authentic and real.

You're authentic.

And we have to have a kiss. That's why whenever I tell people about making friends, you gotta people you tell the hard stuff to, but you gotta have people you just call and celebrate with, you know?

I hadn't thought about that. But one of the things. Very interesting. I'll. I'm. I have a group of guys that I get with once a month, and they're all. They're all successful. Some of them are uber successful. There's 14 of us, and all of us have been married one time and are still married, except for two guys. Two guys have been through a divorce and are remarried. Okay. Three. One's now currently single, gone through a divorce, so three out of 14. Okay. But I've been with these guys for 15 years, and one of the rules in that group is ever so often, not every month when we get together, but about every three or four months, I stop everything in, all the joke telling and all the cutting up and carrying on that we do, and say, all right, everybody, tell me something good is going on. This is a place where we celebrate.

That's right.

And even those guys who are studs, who are very successful, most of them, some of them very, very successful, it's the only place they can celebrate, because.

They'Re not allowed to anywhere else.

They're not allowed to anywhere else. I never thought about that. Because it's. We treasure that time. All of us guys do, because I can't even get up and go, hey, you know, only time I can do something is a humble brag for marketing purposes right around here. But.

But we just got done with Entre. And there was. It was super successful. There's nobody that you, Dave, can go, hey, can I just high five you? I knocked this one out of the park. It went great.

Our team just killed this.

Yeah, we did great.

The best leadership event in the world right now.

But who do you tell that to, right? You can't say anything. I'll tell you one of the greatest moments of friendship of my life. It's easily in the top five. When my first book went number one, I had a buddy that I called and I said, hey, man, I just need to say this out loud to a friend. You and I talked. Me and my mom, me and my wife, but I didn't want to call. I called him, and he paused and he cheered so loud. He's like, I've known you for 30. You've been trying. You've been working so hard. Congratulations. And then he goes, hey, man. Well, I got you. My bank just sold. And he ended up telling. I was like, no, no, no. You can't lose your job. You're the most stable friend I have. And so he walked me through a really hard season he was in. And my win did not come at the expense of his loss, vice versa. Super happy for me, and I could be happy and sit in the crap with him. That's what friends do.

That's so healthy.

Right? So if you got a group of friends and family, they should cheer you. That they know that you want to get out of debt and that you got a small adherence, that should be the greatest moment that they're all celebrating with you.

If you call this show and you tell me what you just told me right here, I'm going to cheer for you.

That's right. We're going to be heartbroken that you.

Lost somebody the time. Yay. And how do you honor the person that left you the inheritance? By doing something smart with it, which is what you did. And so did you cheat, to use your words.

No.

No. You did not cheat. You did not steal.

Stop apologizing.

Lie. You didn't cheat. I mean, you got a blessing and, you know, and you have a responsibility that comes with that blessing, and that is to continue to do smart things with it. If you. If you piss it away, yeah, you should be regretful. You should have problems with that. But when you're doing smart things with it, you didn't cheat. So Solomon, King Solomon built the temple for the people of Israel with his father's money. It was inherited money. Did that diminish his testimony? Nope. Gone down in history as the guy that built the temple. This is the Ramsay show. I know it's hard for you people to grasp, but I have a very large and dominant inner nerd. I know you think it's all cool, Dave, and Dave's cool and all this, but he actually, when you get right down to it, is an unbelievable deep nerd. Absolutely. Nerds out.

Pretty sure they got that day.

Mathematics.

Pretty sure they got that.

You think they already knew that? Okay.

No one has ever been at home. But like, man, that guy's real cool.

I guess he's covered. GQ coming up. I'm just saying. But no, never. Never happening. Nope, not happening. Dads are us. Papa Dave r us. But anyway, Nike, I have had fun. Me and my inner nerd, my dominant inner nerd self. And george. George is a big time nerd. George is a bigger nerd than I realized. So george and I have been working on this content and building out with our content team, the arc, the teaching arc, so that the message is clear and deliverable on investing. Dave Ramsey's investing essentials. And truthfully, we were going through the walkthrough a while ago, and this is just nerd fun. It's nerd fun. If you're not a nerd, it's not going to, you're going to go to sleep, you're going to get a headache. But if you're, if you got an inner nerd, you're going to love this investing essentials thing I'm doing tomorrow night and the next night, 2 hours on Tuesday night, the 21st, 2 hours on Tuesday night, the 22nd, and we're going through all the real estate stuff, nerding out. We're going through all the mutual fund stuff and all the investment principles that the very wealthy people that I know and run around with and me use, not some broke kid in his mother's basement on TikTok.

This is like real people that have money that do investing, and here's how they do it. It's $199. It's Tuesday night, Wednesday night this week, 21, 22 May, Nerdville. That's it. Dave Ramsey's investing essentials. I actually, we were literally going through the walkthrough about 2 hours ago on some of the material, and I was told these guys, I said, I am, we need to put up a disclaimer. I am not responsible for people falling asleep during this. Yeah.

If you are out of Xanax or Ambien, go ahead and buy this. You'll be. You'll be.

But the nerds they're out nerds there. There'll be caffeinated up. They'll be leaning in there, little pencil marks on their hands. They're gonna tell you this.

For those of you on the fence, I walked into a planning meeting the other day because I was the next meeting with one of our content strategists, and I saw some of the slides up there, and I said, what's that one? And they explained it to me, and I immediately did the math on my place. And that has already spurred a conversation with my wife.

Oh, wow. So, like, you are so I'm a nerd.

I'm not a math nerd.

You're a psychological nerve.

Right? I like this into the statistics programs and let that nerd it out for me. But, like, I already walked away with something just because I walked into the meeting early. So this is cool stuff, man.

It's fun. Ramsey solutions.com events Dave Ramsey's essential investing essential stuff we've never done before on real estate and investing, certainly baby step seven and beyond. For sure. We're going to get into that stuff, or at least showing you when you get there what it should be, right? You don't have to be there to watch it. But, hey, we would love to have you. There's like, I'm amazed how many tickets sold. There's a lot of you people out there are nerds. I'm just saying. All right. Shannon's in Austin, Texas. Hey, Shannon. What's up?

Hello. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Good. I just have a couple questions. So I'm currently working. I have one child, and with my husband, we're currently pregnant with our second. And we're just really trying to figure out how to best set our family up for success. I currently make 83, and my husband did make 115 and just got promoted to where he's making 200. Yeah. So we're super excited for that. And so we have, as a family, decided to have me quit my job and become a stay at home mom come July. And so we have no debt. All of our cars are paid off. So the only debt that we do have is our house, which we could sell for 400. We currently owe 190 on it. And so my question really to you and just seeing what's smart in the future is we want to be able to have this house for an investment. Do we put everything we can towards it for the next three to four years, pay it off? Or we're wanting to move closer to family? About an hour south. Do we sell it and use that amount, that we could get about 200,000 onto a house that we're wanting to actually grow into and be close to family.

Okay. So if you move, if you sell the house after the baby comes, we don't move anybody when they're pregnant. I'm smarter than that. And. But once the baby comes, if you put the house on the market and sold it and move south, now you have a husband, makes 200, you're debt free. Except the house. Are you moving up in house?

We would currently our house.

So you would go from $200,000 in debt now on the house to what, how much debt in the move?

I would probably say that our house that we would look at down south would be roughly 500.

And you're 400 now.

That's correct.

So you would have a $300,000. I mean, you'd have. You'd have a 200. Yeah. $300,000 mortgage. You got 200 now 190, right?

Yes.

Okay, so let's up that by 100 then, because you're upping the price by 100 now. You've got a $300,000 mortgage instead of a $200,000 mortgage. You make a hundred, you make 200 a year. Can you pay that off and prosper? Yes, you can do that.

Do you think it'd be smarter to pay it off in three to four years or make the move and I'd make the move?

Yeah.

I think you're trying to do. Trying to do too much. Start thinking about, you're not going to.

Keep the house you're in now. It doesn't matter. So.

Well, they want to keep it and rent it one day.

You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to have the money to do that because you're not going to. I'm not going to tell you to keep a rental house that's paid for and then go borrow on your personal residence because you kept a rental house. That's the same thing as borrowing on a paid for house to buy a rental. Not a chance. Not a chance. So you're not gonna have the money to keep that house.

Gotcha. Okay. And even if we tried to save as much as we could, why we're actually paying it off, you still won't.

Have the money to pay cash for another house. And then you'd be effectively borrowing on your home to buy a rental. And we never do that. You'd never do that if you had a paid for house. You're not going to borrow on it with two little kids running around and put that house at risk to go buy a rental. No.

No.

Just sell it, move. Sell it, move. And then get that one paid off. And when that one's paid off, someday that 300,000 is paid off. You making 200. He's going to get more raises. And when he gets all that paid off, then starts saving. Pay and pay cash for your first rental. But that's a little ways out.

Okay?

That's a little ways out.

And you don't want to be landlords an hour away anyway.

It's a long. That's a long hard drive. Yeah, yeah. That's just your. That's. That's landlord by default, not by plan. You fell backward into it instead of sitting there going proactively, leaning towards it. And so that. That's what I mean. But, yeah, you. You're doing great. Congrats, and congrats on the new baby on the way. What a great time of life for you guys. And he's making bank. He goes from. He goes to 115 all the way to 200. Ching, Ching. Very nice. Very nice. I like it. I like it a lot. Daniel's in Baltimore. Daniel, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Dave and John, pleasure to be speaking with you guys today. Really excited.

You, too. How can we help so for a.

Little bit of context for you guys, my fiance and I are getting married on June 8.

Yay.

We are. Thank you. We are moving on June 1 for our apartment. And about a week ago, I got the news that my car needs a new engine. So I just want to see if it's a smart time to purchase a new to us car or we should ride it out as a one car family for a little bit.

What's your income?

So we both work in sales, and last year we did 106,000 combined. Yep.

Okay. And you have any money saved to buy a car with so we can.

For a car? Nothing saved specifically, but we can get our hands on $14,000 between our two bank accounts, a general savings account we have, and our one.

Sell the piece of junk that the engine blew in, get what you can out of it, put five grand together, and go get you a little something to limp along in for your first six or eight months of marriage, and then save up and move up in car. You got five grand, but you, do you need to go get a $30,000 car?

Crap.

No. Do you need a car payment? No, but $5,000 car to get around and get rid of that piece of junk. Yeah, I would do that. This is the Ramsey show. Listen, you've been asking for it, and now it's finally here. So stop what you're doing, pull the car over and head to ramsaysolutions.com store right now because we've got brand new Ramsay merch. I'm talking t shirts, dad hats, yetis, and even a debt free sweatshirt right now available only at the Ramsey store. That's right. You can wear your debt free scream and rock your favorite davisms, like, better than I deserve. And I included my personal favorite. We've got food at home. Your kids will know better than to ask once they see that shirt. So go check out all the brand new merch@ramsaysolutions.com. store today. That's ramsaysolutions.com store. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Open phones at 888-254-5225 Matt is in Seattle. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I got a question for you. So I currently have three jobs and spend more than 12 hours a day working. And I save and invest about half my income. So I'm saving about 100,000 a year. So financially, we're sound, but it comes at a cost. So I'm not spending enough time with my children. And my health is deteriorating. Well, not, I'm not dying, but it's impacting negative.

How much do you have in savings in your investments?

Yeah, so I, so with, I've been doing this. I've been having three jobs for about five years now or going into six years.

So you put a half million dollars away.

Yeah, exactly. Well, exactly. So with that money, I've bought four homes, one primary residence and three single family homes. And I'm renting it all out right now.

Okay, and what are the three single family homes worth.

Roughly, on average, about 600k each. And I bought it for about yet. Correct.

Okay, so the three rental properties are worth $1.8 million and they're paid for?

No, no, no. About like 40. I have about 40% equity on this house.

Oh, so you still have debt on them? Okay.

Correct.

Okay, so, okay, when it comes to.

Equity, I have about 1.3, you know, all those four houses.

Gotcha.

And I have about 350,000 in savings. So what's your question, Ira? Combined? Yeah. So I just turned 40, and I've been happy so far, but, like, I just have 40 this year. And since then, I've been thinking about a lot of stuff, like, is this, am I, am I doing a good thing? And initially, I thought I'm doing the right thing for the family, but I'm starting to think about myself, too. I think I'm just kind of going through the midline crisis, but also so when I think about quitting those two jobs, the thought of living paycheck to paycheck terrifies me.

Honey, you're not living paycheck to paycheck. If I put a hundred thousand dollars away, quitting two jobs is not going to make you paycheck to paycheck. You're so exaggerating that.

Well, if I, after I put all the, like, next out on four hundred one K and Ira, I'm not going to be safe. Any money at all. Oh, on a monthly basis.

So back off of your investing. You only got $2 million. You're not living paycheck to paycheck. That's a bogus emotional response.

Why are you afraid to just sit at home with your family, dude?

Yeah, why?

Why?

Well, initially I was part of, like, fire movement, but I'm thinking a lot, a lot of things can happen in the future. So I.

Fire movement burned down. Did you notice? It burned to the ground? It burned around people's ears because they were trying to do something that wasn't sustainable. What you're doing is not sustainable. What you're doing is not sustainable. You didn't build a life. You built a financial portfolio. And now your brain is waking up and saying, go build a life. And, and we're saying, yes, go build a life.

Here's what I promise you.

I agree with your brain.

When you're 50, you can hand the kids a key to a rental house. I promise you they would have exchanged it for time with their dad. And by the way, that's a false dichotomy. Because you work hard, you're still gonna be able to offer your kids a pretty extraordinary life financially. And you get to spend time with your kids. I think you're scared to go home and build your family. Am I wrong?

Well, are you afraid to admit that the fire thing you bought into sucked?

And also, I think it has to do with my ego.

Like, I'll go along with that.

Successful and superior, but.

And you have four houses worth $1.3 million.

Net worth is $2 million. And you're 40 years old. Ding, ding. You got the bell. You what? You're on the bell. You're done. If you don't do anything else, you're going to be worth $20 million at 65. If you just let the investments that you have grow, that's all there is no need to panic here. And by the way, people working, enjoying their work and going to work and having meaning as long as they're able is not bad. I intend to be on this microphone until I don't make sense. Now, I don't want to be one of those guys that doesn't make sense. We've seen those, and they're dangerous. But, yeah, so, anyway, yeah, we need to get off at that point, but, no, you, dude. Yeah, your brain is telling you what to do. You already know what to do. All I'm telling you is, is your emotions are exaggerating, that you're, like, gonna be starving to death and. Or something and living paycheck to paycheck. Not even close.

How much of.

Here's an idea. Quit. And if a year from now, you're. You think you're gonna be homeless or something, go back to work.

Three different jobs.

You can get. You can get those jobs right back. Those kinds of jobs are always waiting.

How much of this stress, Dave? Cause I've never lived this life. You keep telling yourself with your neocortex, the. Your thinking part of your brain, I'm worth $1.3 million. I'm worth $1.3 million. But your amygdala, the threat detection part of your brain, says you still owe $900,000 on these four houses. You still owe money. You still owe money. And every month, no matter what your net worth is or how much money you have coming in, your brain knows you're still on the hook for all these properties. That's got to weigh you down, doesn't it?

That's probably part of it, but I think he's been running at breakneck speed. He didn't even notice that part, huh? That's my opinion. Just talking to this exhaust. I think he's just. No, he was trying to run. He thought there was an end game.

Tell me about fire.

Fire.

Retire young.

The retire. Retire at 40.

Okay.

Not have to work again. Yeah. And the numbers don't work.

Gotcha.

It does. You people. And because the problem with money, like, when you view money that way, is money's a bully in the schoolyard. As soon as you say, hit me in the nose, you step back. If you cross this line, I'm gonna hit you. You step across the line. He steps back and draws another line, says, if you cross this line, then I'm gonna hit you. And that's what money does. It keeps. Keeps, because there's always another one. There's always a bigger thing. There's always a different thing. There's always a reason. There's always inflation. There's always a better car. There's always a, oh, mama. Mama wanted a house in the mountains up. There's always, there's always. Doesn't matter where you get to. There's always another one and a bigger one and a shinier one and a different. So you just can't get away from it. Once you get on that treadmill, you can't check. You can't catch that carrot. It's impossible to catch. And so if you could maintain godliness with contentment and say, okay, I'm going to live a lifestyle of $50,000 a year income, then you can build a big enough nest egg to quit, but you can.

Something about our psychology won't let us do it. We start out with that, and that's the math. But then by the time we get used to living on $150,000 lifestyle, then I got to go back to a $50,000 lifestyle to quit. Which is exactly what he's saying. He's saying, I'm going to be paycheck to. He's not even close to paycheck to paycheck, but he's going to have to cut his lifestyle. He's going to have to drop his investing from $100,000 a year contribution.

No, that was in addition to maxing out everything else.

Yeah. Yeah.

So he can still max out everything.

And you can't do $100,000 extra.

Extra, yeah.

And that's paycheck to paycheck. That's not paycheck to paycheck.

Also this. You get to be 40, and you got $2 million, and you thought it was gonna feel a different way.

That's true. You thought it was gonna be a billion.

You thought you were gonna do nothing, and doing nothing will kill you.

It's one of the things I had to outline with all these little communists that are coming out of college. Have to explain to them the a billionaire is not the same thing as a millionaire. A millionaire. A billion is a thousand million. Billionaires have four houses, a jet, and seven cars. Millionaires have two used Camrys and one house, and it's paid for, and they have $800,000 in their 401k. That's a millionaire. But a billionaire is a thousand million. And people emotionally have these two things confused. They think of some rap artist or whatever in a private jet, which they don't even own. It's chartered. But, but I mean, they think it's. They. Oh, that's how you don't live like that with a $3 million net worth, you know, stupid jet would be more than that. That much less. You know, the whole, I mean, it's just like. So that's not how it works. It's the emotions of when I get to be a millionaire, I'm going to be a billionaire. No, you're not. You're going to be a millionaire.

To use, still a good thing to.

Use Camrys and 800,000 in your four hundred one k and a paid for.

$500,000 house and a lot of laughter in your home.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. You're done. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 Flo is in Cincinnati. Hi, Flo. Hello. How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave.

Good. How can I help?

Yes. So just a little context. I'm tired of immigrants. My dad moved here at 51. My mom was 40. I'm the first of five, three out of five of us making one into the six figures. Two are still in school today. My dad is 75 and my mom is 64. And retirement is right around the corner. So, you know, being that they moved here kind of later in life, we're trying to get a picture of what retirement looks like for both of them. My dad, he's retired, but working part time collecting Social Security. My mom is about to retire. So we're just trying to figure out between myself and my siblings, how do we help them retire in peace? We've thought about maybe starting a fund to supplement their income monthly, but we're kind of lost to as to where to even begin.

So your parents have been in the country how long?

We moved here 2000, so about 24 years now.

Okay. And they've saved nothing.

My dad, when I checked last, all he has is Social Security. So he's collecting about maybe 1800 a month in Social Security.

And your mom?

My mom, she does have some retirement income. I was just looking at it a couple weekends ago, and I know she's going to be collecting in total, I estimate about 5500. This is pre tax.

Okay. So they got $7,000 a month and they can't live on that.

Well, so here's the issue. They also have a ton of debt, like they have the print plus one that I just found out about credit card debt. I forget the complete, the total amount and also just a bunch of other. And then they still have payments on the house that they're living in. So we estimate that they're going to be. And then that doesn't include cost for like healthcare when, you know, when they retire. So we know it's going to be tight and we're just trying to make sure.

I don't know it's going to be tight. I haven't heard any numbers that said tight yet. How much is the parent plus loan?

My mom's, when I checked last, was 35,000.

Your mom's is not a parent plus loan. Your mom borrowed money for one of your siblings to go to school?

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

Who's the sibling?

Two of my sisters.

Okay. 35,000 for your sister to go to school. Sisters?

That's correct.

Okay. And how much credit card debt?

9000.

Okay. $9,000 does not keep somebody that makes $7,000 a month from existing. That's an exaggeration. It's not even, doesn't even show up on the radar. And then how much is their house payment?

Right now their house permit is 1300 a month.

Okay. All right. 1300 a month can be paid out of 7000. Would you agree with that?

I think so.

Okay. And you could buy groceries and you could buy lights and water and you could learn to live on lesson you make and cut up your stupid credit cards. Now, if your sisters take over the student loans and pay them, which is not a bad idea at all, or some of y'all jump on it together and knock out the student loans, and then if you want to reach over and pay off $9,000 worth of credit cards, that's fine. Is under the obligation that they don't use them ever again and they close the accounts and they get debit cards and they live on a budget, they can make it on 7000 and have a very nice retirement.

Yeah. And then my dad right now, he's, he's 75, so he's retired and working part time and basically supplementing his Social Security that he's getting monthly.

Yeah, but here's the thing. These people don't manage their money and that's what scares you. And it should scare you because if you think you're going to be able to supplement enough to kit to backfill for somebody that won't take care of their money, you can't possibly give somebody that much money. Look, at Congress. Yeah, same thing. You can't give them enough money to make them responsible. They take. They take billions and trillions of dollars, and they're still idiots. And your mom and dad have got to not do this. They've got to get control, because it's unreasonable that someone that comes here and develops a nice pension and a nice Social Security over the last 24 years can't live on $7,000 a year with a $1,300 house payment and no debt payments because we cut up their credit cards. Their kids paid off one car, one kid or two paid off the card. Credit cards. The sisters picked up the student loans. They can live on this, but they're going to have to get their crap together. And that's the conversation you all don't want to have, but you've got to have.

You think it'd be a good idea to. Because we've tried to have it, but they kind of, especially my dad. He's a little resistant to really opening up and talking about the full picture. So what I told you is, like, I think, a partial reality. I think there's even more behind the curtains that they haven't told us. And I've been thinking about maybe. Maybe we're not the right person that people to talk, maybe need to talk to professionals.

Put them in with a coach. Yeah, put them in with a coach. I'll get. I'll give you a coach to sit down with them as my gift to try to help them turn it around. But you've got to get them to go over there, and they got to be willing to listen.

Hey, flow, have you sat down and said, there's usually two ways this. The conversation can go, hey, dad, mom, I need you to tell me about your financial situation. How much debt do you all have? What? Or, hey, dad, y'all are getting older. You just retired, and I can't sleep at night wondering what your situation's gonna be. I'm scared to death for you guys. I know how expensive things are. It would be. It would be a gift to me if we could sit down and go through where you're actually at, how. How good things are, how tough things are. So that helped me sleep. Sometimes pride is too big for that, but sometimes the dad will hear that and say, I don't want my son losing sleep because of me anymore. I'll have that conversation. But if you come at them, hey, what's the problem, man? They're going to wall up and not talk to you about it.

Yeah. The alternative reality is. Is that he. When they immigrated, they fully embraced the american dream, which can be a nightmare if you do it wrong.

Yep.

Credit cards and parent plus loans and spending everything you make and not saving money, that's normal in America. Agreed.

Yep.

And your parents, your parents fully embraced the culture. Where did they come from? What country?

Nigeria or Nigerian.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they found. They found a lot of wonderful things and didn't know how to drive a car that powerful.

Yeah. I think what really kind of strigured it for me is I've tried to have it conversation with them a bunch of times, is I always ask my parents, hey, where do you see yourself five years from now? And I asked them that last year. I asked him that this year.

Yeah. I think. I think it's. I think John's right. I think you go at it with dad. I'm scared and I'm worried. And I woke up this morning early, about 03:00 a.m. i couldn't go back to sleep thinking about y'all. Would you. Would you sit down with this guy that we've lined up and see if he can make sure you're okay? Because I just want to make sure you're okay.

Yeah.

He would probably hear that a lot more than if you bump into his pride. If you bump into his pride, he's probably gonna bow up like he already has. Right.

And that's. That's not just a nigerian dad. That's all dads.

That's every day a hillbilly, redneck dad, Yaku. That's every dad I could definitely do that.

Has to defend himself. So you go. Good on you. Me. Hey, thanks for being so successful, and thanks for listening. Loving your parents. It's amazing.

The way to love them is to get up under this and fix it, not throw money at it. This is the Ramsey show. I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And everydollar is the budgeting app that I use personally, because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go, just like you told that guy in traffic, exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, everydollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey, so you always know your next right step. Download everydollar for free in the app store or Google Play. Today, doctor John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today, selling a house the Ramsey Way makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a real estate agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey, you'll get the best offer on your house. Or, if you're buying, help you find the right house for you.

We send you some of the top agents in your area. High octane, high protein, who we trust. They're Ramsey trusted. We review their stats, interview them, and then you can go through and talk to them, do the same thing, and you decide which one you want to work with. Ramsey trusted agents have years of experience. They're high producers. They're the best in the business, and they'll help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, marketing, and making or choosing the right offer. Find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free at Ramsey solutions.com. agent Matt is in Iowa City, Iowa. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hello, guys. Thanks for taking the call.

Sure. What's up?

So, we've got a second child on the way, due in November. Wife wants me to remodel the basement so we have more space just for plary, a full bathroom that we can get done. She wants me to use the Heloc that I took out before I listened to both George's book and Dave, your book. And I want to cash flow it whether it takes me a couple more months just to do it or not. I'm just trying to make sure that's on the same path. But I'm thinking I have to pause kind of. The debt snowball at the same time.

Are you trying to get me and Dave to tell your pregnant wife something you don't want to tell her?

No.

I have told her already that we need. It's okay to do this, but at the same time, I need. I need time because I can do a lot of it myself, but I only want to do it with cash.

Yeah, your impulse is right, Ben.

Yeah. Here's the problem, is that you guys are not aligned. It's not whether to do a basement or not. The problem is she's willing to borrow whatever amount of money to get whatever she wants, and you're not. And so because you're dealing with a set of information that she doesn't have, after going through George's book and consuming some of our material, you have become, accurately, I think, convinced that the best way for your family to prosper is to get out of debt and stay out of debt. She's not convinced of that.

Yeah. It took me a while for her just to even listen to your book, Dave, I had to kind of not force her, but I did that through the car on trips or whatever, and she kind of was under the impression, like, okay, we need to get on this. But I kind of talked her off the cliff of buying a new home, which would be more than twice what we're paying now for a mortgage payment, which I didn't want to do. And so now we're going to stay. And the contention was that I need to remodel the basement.

Okay. No, it's not. The problem is not the basement. The problem is you and your wife do not agree on how to live life, and you are begging and pleading her to listen to something, to understand something, and she's bowing up and saying she refuses to do so. By God, get me what I want. That's what you've just described. Now, I don't know if that's what's happening, but that's what you described.

Sure.

You're not leaving her in a very good light in this conversation, and I.

Don'T mean it that way.

No, I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing her. Unless you're wrong, because, I mean, I got to tell you, I don't have conversations with Sharon, nor does she have conversations with me where she's tiptoeing around like, you're tiptoeing around her like, oh, I don't know. Honey, baby, baby, I listen to this. No, it doesn't happen that way at the Ramseys. It's like, hey, this means a lot to me, and you mean a lot to me, and I really want you to give this a serious listen, like an adult. And then I go listen to the podcast that Sharon wants me to listen to, I may disagree with the thing, I may come back, and we may have an argument about it, but we're going to do it on an adult level. But I don't. I don't do stuff because I'm scared of Sharon or because I had to talk her off the ledge. And I concede my principles by talk to talk her off the ledge.

And my wife doesn't give me ultimatums in my house. Well, if you're gonna do this, I'll listen to the book, but you have to.

We don't do trade outs like you're gonna go build out the basement if I. If I. If you don't get me a new house. No, that's not. I mean, you know, if we decide instead of moving to a new house, that we can't afford. We're gonna build out the basement. We're still gonna do that based on principles that we both agree to. So, Matt, you do not have a debt problem or a cash flow problem or a decision on how to build out the basement problem. You have a marriage problem.

Yeah. And you have to sit down and have that conversation. And from the sound of your voice, it sounds like that's going to be a tough one. And it may be that you'll have reached an end of the end of the road where you all can have that together. You're going to have to get a third party, whether it's a counselor or a minister from your church or a trusted friend. But you all have to get on the same page with how you're doing life, and it's you versus her right now. You're bringing a second kid into the world. That's just a recipe for chaos.

Yeah, you probably do need to sit down with somebody, make it easier just to have somebody walk you through this. And it could be family of origin stuff in the sense of Rachel talks about this. Let me send you a copy of Rachel's book for both of you to read. You know, title escapes me.

Oh, know yourself. Know your money.

Know yourself. Know your money. But one of the things she goes, thank you. One of the things she goes through is if you grew. If she grew up in a household where spending was just part of the game, and you grew up in a household where money was fearful, then you're trying to bring fearful into her princess world, and that doesn't work. She grew up as a princess, and now you're telling her no.

Or if she grew up poor and.

And now you're telling her no and.

She wants to spend now.

Yeah. Or whatever it is. I don't know what the background is. I'm not saying she's a princess, but I'm saying, you know, when you start demanding things back and forth like that, that's a relational breakdown, man. That's not a. Because what you're saying is we have a baby on the way. I. My wife wants me to build out the basement. That's not unreasonable. She wants me build out the basement now and use a heloc to do it, and I can do it two months later without borrowing money. That's unreasonable.

Completely unreasonable.

Completely unreasonable. Oh, and here's what's even more unreasonable. This is a baby that is six.

Or eight pounds, maximum 21 inches.

Does not take up much room, does not need an entire basement, can exist for quite a while in the upstairs and not be. And not be damaged by anything.

You know what? It won't even know, Dave?

It won't know. It won't even know for years.

It won't even know.

It may never know that there was a downstairs.

Here's a good equation for all you math nerds who are married. If she wins and you lose, you both lose. And if you win and she loses, you both lose. You can't win marriage arguments, because somebody loses. And if one of you loses, everybody in the house has lost.

We have to realign and find a way. So one of the things that we learned to do on stuff like this, Matt, was first. We got to agree on the principle. The principle is we're not borrowing money. Principle is we're getting out of debt before we go do upgrades to the basement. That's what really ought to happen. He's in baby step two. No, I'm not stopping baby step two. We're going to get out of debt because I want to be free and borrow a slave to the lender. Now, once we're agreed on that principle, then happy to do the basement, and I'll do it as soon as we're out of debt, as soon as we have the emergency fund in place, the first thing we'll do is the basement. Okay, now, we hit that point, and I had. I remember exactly what was. It was $18,000 that I needed, slash wanted to do here at Ramsey in the business. I had $18,000 in my pocket, and I had a thing I wanted to do here, and I knew I could turn that 18 into 100. Investing into the business. She was driving a 1902 astro van that had enough goldfish crumbs in it from raising three toddlers, and it had 285,000 million miles on it.

And she wanted a nuke, an upgrade car. Both things are right. You know what? We did both of them, but we just had to choose the order. And I was happy to get her the car first and then come back and do the investment at the office. It wasn't a no. It was a what order. Once we aligned on the principles. Perfect. None of that's happening in this conversation.

None.

This is the Ramsey show. It's the last call for our two night virtual event, Dave Ramsey's investing essentials. It's set for May 21 and 22, and you do not want to miss this. I'll unpack my personal playbook on investing and real estate and show you how you can feel confident in your investments, too. Tickets are 199 snag. A vip ticket and you'll get two sessions with a Ramsey preferred coach. You can join from anywhere. Go to ramsaysolutions.com events and get your ticket today. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today on the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey solutions. Joe and Danella are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Hi.

Good, good.

How are you?

Welcome, welcome. Where do y'all live?

Henderson, Nevada, right outside of Las Vegas.

Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you two paid?

We paid off $201,000.

Good for you. How long did that take?

It took 44 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

We started off making 157 and we finished at 213.

Excellent. What do y'all do for a living?

I am in records and information management.

Mm hmm.

And I work in the power generation industry.

Very cool. Good for you. What kind of debt was your 201,000?

Our house.

Hey.

Looking at a couple of weirdos.

That's right.

Got a paid off house, baby.

Yeah.

So what's a paid off house in Henderson, Nevada worth these days?

Anywhere close to half a million dollars.

Yeah. It looks like a great place. They just flashed a picture of it up here on YouTube. Yeah. Wow. Very cool. Good for you, man. Very neat. Gotta pay for household. Are you two.

I'm 54 and she's a lot younger.

Okay, that's good. Great answer. Well played. I love it. I love it. And you have a paid for property?

Yes.

How much in your nest egg? How much in your retirement?

We got about 570 in retirement right now.

Which means that you are baby steps millionaires then.

Very close. When you add the liquid cash. Yes.

Yeah. Well. And add the paid for house. Hello. It's worth a half a million. 505. Hundred a million where I come from. Good for you. Well done.

About 390, actually.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you said it was about a half million. Okay. All right, so, yeah, you're probably there. Good man. Congratulations. So how much of this million dollar net worth did you inherit?

Zero.

Zero. And how long ago did you all start this whole process?

So the current paying off the house.

That'd be fine.

Started about four years ago.

You started that four years ago?

2020. It was January. It was.

How long have y'all been married?

27 years.

Almost 28 years now.

All right, very good.

Oh, you looked at him like you still like him. That's so good. All right, so 2020. Before the world fell apart.

Before the world fell. Right? Before the world fell apart. So in January, I'm walking through the local library and looked over at a setup of books, and there's the radio guy's face. Oh, look, there's the radio guy.

The radio guy's face. That's a scary thought right there.

And immediately, this quiet whisper in my heart happened and said, take that book home. Check that book out and take it home. So I did. Grabbed it, checked it out, took it home, started reading it, read bits of it to him. Started listening to the radio podcast.

Oh, wow.

And then we heard about the 14 day free trial for the financial peace university videos. And so we went and signed up for those and started binge watching them, watched each of them two or three times over. And the part about retirement and investing kept sticking out and resonating with us. And that's what got us very focused on helping us get on the track of paying off our house and getting everything tightened up right.

So our debt free journey really kind of, I always like to say it began in 2020, once we got through your program and kind of got on board with that. Prior to that, years ago in our marriage, we followed, kind of listened to Larry Brickette back in the day, and.

He was teaching this stuff before I was right.

But we just kind of hummed along with no real plan in life. We were able to pay our bills and everything, and everything seemed fine, but we weren't getting money stashed away for retirement, things like that. So it really, once we got through your program, it really, that really kind of opened my eyes a lot because initially, I wasn't really, you know, following her. We weren't really working together.

We were close, but it wasn't, it wasn't perfectly in sync.

Right, right.

And now there's a rhythm. It's perfectly in sync.

And I, I read, what was it? Everyday millionaires. I read that book in just the idea of becoming a millionaire where years ago kind of seemed like, oh, this is just a dream. It's never going to happen. And then I looked at our budget, I looked at our income, and I'm like, we can do this. Yeah, it's very, it's very doable for us. We have great incomes. And so we got on board, and we just chunked away at the house and got it done.

So, wow.

Tell me about your matching shirts. One of them says, shut up, and the other one says, do the plan. Tell us about that.

So a while ago, we were listening to one of your podcasts, and, you know, John, I don't know if it was you or might have been, George, somebody in there said, just shut up and do the plan, and somehow that just stuck. It just kind of resonated.

Like, that actually sounds like jade, but.

So the shut up part is my personality and the kind of do the plan. Tortoise, slow and steady.

Oh, it's a tortoise across. Now. I see it. Got the tortoise, little tortoise going across to do the plan. All right, good. I like it. Well done, y'all.

Thank you.

Well done. I like. We men need to sell those shirts.

I like those shirts.

Since we're in the shirt business now. Yeah.

What was the biggest disagreement you had over the last four years when it comes to your money?

So the hardest thing. I don't know that we had a huge disagreement. Maybe we did. But I love going out to eat and cutting back on the going out to eat spending. That was the hard one for me.

Yeah, we can worth it.

It was very worth it. We found lots of ways to go out and do stuff that didn't cost much. And, you know, during COVID we had to, so.

Yeah, you didn't have a lot of choice, sir.

We kind of sort of did beans and rice. Not that we had to, but just because getting the house paid off became that important to us that we just cut back on a lot of other things and.

Well, and the more you. More you can see the number and you can say, we could be there, then it's like, I want to rush to the finish line. I don't want to just play along. I want to get there. And that's the way most people's brains work. Way to go, y'all. That's very cool. What church are y'all in out there? In Henderson?

So we do. We go to Green Valley Christian center.

Okay.

In Henderson.

Okay.

And we went through financial peace. Was it 20 or 21? We went through that. Anyhow, it was online because of COVID and all that. But just a little shout out to Charlie Bromley, who is our FPU coordinator.

All right. Way to go, Charlie. Good stuff.

Yeah.

Well, way to go, you guys. And Charlie was cheering you on. Who else was cheering you on?

I think that's about it. We kind of just.

You didn't talk about it a lot.

We didn't really talk about it a lot. You know, we didn't.

Hard to brag about. I'm paying off my house.

Yeah. But. I don't know. But Charlie was.

Was in our corner, definitely. Well, congratulations. We're proud of you.

Thank you.

Way to go, guys. Very proud of you. Your heroes. You took control of your life. You start with nothing in America, 54 years old, you have a paid for house. You got a net worth of over a million dollars. You're in agreement on your marriage. You're smiling at each other. Life is good.

It's really a story of not anything that we achieved, not what we accomplished, but it's what God has done in his provision and everything that he's done for us. And just a mindset and, you know, long story short, years ago, early in our marriage, we went through a good part of our marriage. And I had an addiction in my own personal life that really divided us mentally, emotionally. And I think that kind of kept us from really connecting together, and it affected our finances in that way.

Wow. You've come through a lot of healing. Yeah. Be not conformed to this world, because you're not. You're weird, right. But be transformed. And how you do that by the renewing of your mind. And what I've noticed that's interesting in my life and people I've observed over the years as well is it's interesting that you do all these things to become debt free. But who you become as a couple, who you become as individuals while you're on this journey is probably more important than actually just paying off the house. You've become different people, a better version of yourself. Way to go. Very proud of you. You're heroes. Excellent. Excellent job. All right. It's Joe and Daniella from Las Vegas, Nevada. Henderson, to be precise. 201,000 paid off house and everything. Baby steps, millionaires, baby. 44 months, making 157 to 213. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free score scream.

Ready? Three, two, one.

We're debt free.

I love it, man. Very cool, guys. Very cool. This is the Ramsey show, our scripture of the day. James 117. Every good and perfect gift is from above. Coming down from the father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. H. Jackson Brown said, talent without discipline is like an octopus on a roller skates. There's plenty of movement, but you'll never know if it's going to be forward, backwards or sideways.

That's a great quote.

He did a book many years ago that sold several million copies. He's from here in Nashville, called life's little instruction book. And it was just a little, almost like one of our quick reads, but it was, you know, quote per page of whatever, quotes from his friends, his dad's friends, and that kind of stuff. And it was, gosh, that's probably 25 or 30 years ago. But it went big. It went real big. David is in Washington, DC. Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

I really wanted to talk about, I'm a father of five and I have a supporting spouse, but we have some debt. This debt, car loans. We did a recent home improvement. We had some contractor issues to the point where we had lost quite a bit of money. So I ended up taking money from my four hundred one k to kind of COVID the home improvement that we were doing on the home. And so I think in total, between the cars and the AC improvement, the home improvement, we're looking at about 121,000.

But we thought you covered the home improvement. Is it paid off or not?

It's. I used. I took money from my four hundred one k to.

You borrowed money or you took money?

I borrowed money.

So you have a 401K loan?

I do.

A 50,000 or what?

Yes.

Okay. And then you have, what else?

Two car. Okay.

And that amounts to. That amounts to another 50. Okay. So you got 100,000 in debt, right?

Yes.

You said 100. How much?

121,021.

Okay, cool. I got the picture now. All right. And your questions, what we have, I.

Have stocks and like, my personal brokerage that's probably valued over 200,000. And the thought is, should I take that to sell them down to, to cover those outstanding loans by the end.

Of the day today, right now, as fast as you can. You should have done that before you took out these loans. You should have used your money to buy a car. You should have used your money to do your renovation.

Definitely.

Yeah.

I think at the time it was. I took out these loans a little while ago and the market was down, so they're not looking as great.

Doesn't matter. You don't borrow money on a car to invest in the stock market. And when you don't take money out of the stock market to buy your car, it's the same thing. No financial, no one in financial history except TikTok has said borrow money on your car and invest in the stock market. No one ever said that was a good idea. And effectively that's what you did by not taking your money out of your brokerage account because the market was up to buy the car and instead borrowing money on the car, it's the same thing as having borrowed money on the car to invest. You understand what I'm saying?

I do, yeah.

So undo this mess today and quit buying stuff unless you pay for it.

Right.

Because it's killing you. It's killing you. You make a lot of money and you're a very smart person and you over analyzed this. Big time. Big time. You got paralysis of the analysis and you thought you had this figured out and you put yourself in a mess. Don't do that. Don't ever do that. Don't ever do that. Ryan is in Augusta, Georgia. Hey, Ryan, what's up?

Hey, Dave. Hey, John. I appreciate you taking my call.

Sure. How can I help?

Yeah, I found out at the beginning of the year, my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer and they ended up. Yeah, yeah. They gave him three years, but it's been a pretty steady decline since the beginning of the year, so I don't think that's accurate any longer. My question, though, is in regards to what I can do before he passes to kind of make things easier on the family after he does. I don't believe he has a will and his cognitive decline is, I think, going to keep us from getting him to.

You don't think he's sound of mine now?

He's seen Indians in the kitchen, so.

I don't think so all the time or just sporadically?

It's sporadic worse in the afternoons.

Hey, Ryan, I'm telling you this cause I love you. You need to have that conversation a like today or tomorrow. Are you. Are you anywhere near him geographically?

A couple hours away.

Okay.

Get in the car and go over there and get a will done now?

Right now. Get online, get a mama bear will. Get something done so you have something written out, otherwise it's gonna be a mess. Yeah.

That one hard conversation in a two hour drive and a 1 hour of hard pushing while he's. If he's clear of is going to save you and your family a ton of problems and money.

Okay.

Big time.

Do you have a sibling or aunt or uncle that's going to sue for the estate or is it going to be pretty simple?

Well, it is more complicated. I do have a brother and a sister that live in the house that he lives in.

Okay.

He has a mortgage. I think there's some back Ir's debt as well as potentially a heloc, but I don't know any of the.

So it doesn't sound like he has any money. When the smoke clears, he's got some.

Equity in the house, but I'm afraid that's going to all be gone.

Yeah. Yeah.

And your brother and sister are going to have to sell the house and move and move.

And that was my next question.

Yeah. The court will force him to do that.

They're going to lose the house.

Okay.

Because they can't keep it, and it doesn't. And your dad doesn't have an estate to amount to anything, so the will is not that important. It is important to get that done. The second thing you got to do while you're there, sit down your brother and sister and go, look, here's the math. The IR's debt plus the HeloC equals the house. There's nothing. And the house is going to be gone when he's gone. This is a really hard situation. So I love you two and I wanted to help us. I want to help you figure out where you're going to be living because they haven't thought of that. They're in denial.

Yeah.

Are they planning on just living there after he passes away?

I think that's the hope. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's sitting down and doing the math with them.

Yeah. You're going to have to show them the math and go. The IR's is not going to let you keep this house and you don't have the money to pay them off. The HELOC is not going to let you keep this house and you don't have the money to pay them off. And so, guys, you know, you've lived here as long as you can, so you can live here as long as you can, but they're going to take the house from you. I'm not getting anything out of this. There's not. No one's getting anything out of this. There's not going to be any money to amount to anything. Maybe a little bit of equity. If we're all smart and we sell it, you might get 10,000, I might get 10,000, she might get 10,000, but it's not going to be 200,000. There's no lottery check coming.

Dave, I'm going to ask you a question, Ryan, I'm going to ask Dave a question on your behalf. If this house is, let's say dad says, I want everything split between these three.

Okay. It has to be sold.

Would it be wise if I'm Ryan, to say, I would prefer not to be on this list? Because here's what I don't want. I don't want Ryan to be left as the sole heir of this house and he gets foreclosed on and he's responsible.

He's not responsible for anything.

Okay.

All right. None of the. None of you three kids are going to be responsible for the debt, but the house will be, and they will take the house for the debt, but.

That foreclosure will sit on whoever's on.

No, it sits on dad's name. It's not in their name. It's a foreclosed on a dead man's estate.

Okay.

It's awful, but that's the, that's the dead. That's the end of it. So, yeah, get a will done and have a clear conversation with your brother and sister. And get your numbers straight. Because am I correct in hearing you that the adding up of the IR's and the HELOC is as much as the house is probably worth?

It's well, in the condition the house is in there, there may be, you know, 8100 thousand in equity.

Okay. All right. So the best thing for your brother and sister is to sell it as soon as he passes away. And if you don't need the money, you can give them the whole equity. I don't care, but let them get a fresh start out of there. But the thing is, they've been hiding from reality at your dad's house for so long that you helping them face reality now is the best gift you can give them.

Okay.

Am I missing something?

No. No, you're, you're dead on.

Okay.

Um. Would it be smarter to sell the.

House before I would let everybody stay there and let him be comfortable and love him? Well, okay. It's, it's just too much. I don't want to disrupt him in his situation. It's horrible what he's going through.

He's lucky to have you run all of them.

Are we got? Oh, man. I'm sorry. Wow. That puts us our, the Ramsay show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus. Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life changing content from Ramsay? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place. Like the Ramsey show, smart money, happy hour, and the doctor John Deloney show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic, like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.