Live. This is the Ramsey show. It's where we help you win in your life, winning with your money, winning in your relationships, and winning at work. In other words, getting more income. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. Triple 888-25-5225 I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the incomparable, the illustrious George Campbell, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm always impressed with your vocabulary, Ken. Well, your generosity gives me.

It gives me a chance to really work on some new words, try to work in some old words. But we always love being together. It is a Friday, and I'll just tell you, I always have a little extra juice on a Friday. A little bit excited, Ken lets his hair down.

Usually his hair is in a little man bun, but today he has let it down.

I have grown it out. But man Bun's never happening.

If you're not watching on YouTube, you're very confused. Ken is a man bun guy.

No, I know that. Kelly, by the way, Kelly Daniel, the producer of the Doctor John Deloney show, is sitting in for James Childs all week. So she'd give her some love.

Absolutely.

And I will tell you that Kelly and I have been working together for a long time, and she would rightfully punch me in the throat if I wore a man bun. Is that fair? That's the kind of thing didn't want to misrepresent you.

Yeah, definitely. That's why we love her.

That's why we love her. All right, to the phones we go. By the way, we're taking your money calls, and we'll take your income calls. So I'm the work guy, and so I'll chime in on the money calls, and George will chime in. But I'm here to help you make more money. By the way, George, when you make more money, guess what happens?

You make more money.

No, you get through the baby steps faster.

I should have got there.

I thought that was low hanging fruit for you.

Everything's pretty high when you're my height. So thank you.

And George is medicated today, so pray for George. I'm going to try to get his energy up. He's medicated today. He's not feeling well. So here we go.

I'm here for you, America.

Ready to take a call? You got it. You summoned the energy.

I got it.

All right. MJ starts us off in Baltimore, Maryland. MJ, how can we help?

Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

My husband and I have been retired for a few years. He will be 70 this year. I'm 68. We want to buy a motorhome for about $300,000, and we're not sure if that's the smart thing to do, especially at our age. So I'd like to run my financials by you and see what your thoughts are.

This is a fun game. Let's go, MJ. Roll it out for us.

Okay, so with our retirement, we make about $14,000 a month income. We own our own home. It's probably worth eight or $900,000. We have a condo probably worth three or $400,000 that's paid for brand new truck, brand new camper, brand new car. No debt whatsoever. So just our normal monthly bills. So we have 1.7 million, but it's in tax deductible deferred accounts. And we probably have about 150,000 in non tax deferred accounts. So my question is, do you think we can afford it? Would it be smart at our age? And how do we get the money out of that tax deferred without having to spend all the money in taxes?

This. Oh, I got questions, George, real quick. The motor home is $300,000. Huh? Brand new for this?

Yeah, Brando. It's one of those big busses.

Yeah. And you rent. Do you rent this condo?

No, no, we own it.

It's a second home.

Life is good. You guys got one. You got the home, the condo. Now we need another gigantic home on wheels, because life is just so fun, and we need to get out there and travel some more.

Is that what I'm retired. We worked hard all our lives.

You're crushing it. No, listen, no judgment, MJ, you're crushing it. I mean, as you were laying out all your stats, I was like, hey, can George and I come visit? I mean, life is good for you guys.

Hit the road with MJ.

Way to go. Okay. All right.

This retirement income you guys are bringing in, about 170 grand. Is that consistent forever? Where is this coming from?

Yeah, that's consistent forever. Yeah.

Is this like pension, Social Security? Where is this coming from?

It. It's pensions and Social Security.

So you don't even have to touch your actual nest egg?

No.

Well, we spend a lot of money traveling and eating out and that sort of thing.

So have you been tapping into your retirement accounts thus far?

We have. We probably taken about 20 grand out a year for the last couple of years.

Okay, let me ask you this way, George. What's your burn rate? So I know you're. You're bringing in 14,000 a month. What are you spending per month.

Probably about.

At least 1010 to 15, if my math is correct.

Yeah.

Okay, well, here's the thing that our parameters around this. You guys are obviously baby steps millionaires. You've done a great job. You have no debt. I love that you've cash flowed all of these toys, and you're right. Now is the time to enjoy it. The part that gives me pause is that you're buying a toy that is double your yearly income. And usually what we say around these toys, things with wheels and motors on them, which you got plenty of, is that you don't want it to add up to more than half of your annual income because they go down in value. That $300,000 motorhome is going to be worth about 150 a few years from now.

Yeah.

So the question is, could you buy something cheaper? That way you don't feel the hit as much, even though you guys will be okay. I'm not really worried about you guys running out of money in retirement. If you're only. If you're burning 20 grand a year, that money is going to grow at a faster rate than you can burn it.

Yeah. So, yeah, we have a fifth wheel motor home, actually, that we could trade in and probably get about 50 grand for it.

What about this camper? Do you need the camper at that point, if you have the motorhome?

No, that's what I said we could get rid of.

Oh, that's your fifth wheel?

Yeah, the fifth wheel. And get probably 50 grand for it. It's new.

I like to come at this. George is right on the money side, but I want to kind of pipe in here on the practicality side here.

Yeah.

I mean, at your age, at least your husband's age, you're younger. But. But I mean, how, like, what's that going to look like? Let's just say you went and bought this thing. How many weeks or months out of the year are you going to be driving around in this thing?

I'm not sure I can tell you. We've taken trips to Florida. We're on a six week trip right now out to Yellowstone.

So what does it cost to rent one of these? MJ, have you looked into that?

I got a better idea. If I'm your age, and again, I may. Maybe I'm lazy. I don't think I am. I just am gonna fly at that age. I don't want to get behind the wheel of anything and drive anywhere, you know?

I mean, can I have a chauffeur taking him around the country if I do it right.

Sure. I wouldn't mind a driver. That's not my point. I just think this is not a smart decision for all the reasons George gave you. But I also just don't think, think it's very practical either. Like fly out to somewhere. Rent, you know, I wouldn't spend. Here's where I'm going. You called Nas, so I don't know why I'm beating around the bush. If I were your son, I would sit down with you guys and go, mom and dad, I think that's a total waste of money. You can spend a fraction of that flying in and out to these places, stay somewhere six weeks. To me, it's just the wrong allocation of funds. I don't think it affects your lifestyle of traveling, though. I. That's my whole point. I just think it's impractical and it's not. It's just not smart.

I would go used if you're going to do it, but I'd rather you. You could spend 30 grand a year for ten years to rent to go on these trips, and you would be a better bet.

Yeah.

So I would look into that and be more free and have more of your income at your disposal and not have $400,000 tied up in toys. That's one man's take.

No, I'm with you. I just don't think it's practical. And here I am trying to give vacation advice, too. I mean, that's not what she asked for, but I just.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's still a lot of your net worth and your life tied up in that thing going down in value. And that's the part that scares me.

All right, coming up next, George and I accidentally ran into each other at a premium event in Nashville last night, and it was funny. We'll tell you about it next. This is the Ramsey show.

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1749 Mallory Lane Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour, taking your calls to help you win in life. Triple 8825-5225 Triple 8825-5225 so, quick story. It involves a haggle and a surprise, and that's always fun, you know? And so we'll start with a surprise.

I like it.

Yesterday afternoon, my wife, she told me yesterday morning, hey, we're doing a fun date. It's an overnight date. And I said, really?

And I said, on a school night?

Yeah, on a school night. Well, we have no, no, the three teens are out of school.

And, well, I mean that as in, you got to work the next day.

Well, I wasn't sure. I didn't know if she cleared the decks for me or what. But it was just a quick overnight, and it was downtown Nashville. So I said, oh, great. So I go home, and she tells me where to go, the directions. I don't know where we're ending up. And so. So end up. We're downtown, a really, really great hotel that we love, one of our favorite places. We have dinner, and I still don't know what the plan is. And as we're waiting to get our table, the Mater d says, so you guys go into the Seinfeld concert, and I look at Stacy, and I go, I don't know. And she's kind of doing this weird look. And then this couple right next to us goes, are you guys going to Seinfeld, too? And I'm looking at Stacy, and she goes, yes. He wasn't supposed to know. So that's how I found that bag.

I didn't even know.

I didn't know Seinfeld was in town.

And so aloof.

Well, no, I'm just. I don't pay attention to that stuff. So. So then I find, oh, that's great. So I show up and I see a couple of our co workers there, and they tell me, hey, George is coming. So I see you after the show, and I find out that you used the haggle.

I did. So Jade razzed me on the show on Wednesday for this. Cause she said, george, just go to the show, spend the money on these stubhub tickets, and pay whatever it costs.

Which point in the story here, Stacy did that. She paid the stubhub.

It just breaks my heart. My middle eastern ancestors are rolling in their grave for me paying, you know, the premium on these tickets. So I didn't ken what I did do. And you guys can use this out there. America. I searched all over the Internet. I literally would search on Facebook and go, Seinfeld Nashville. And I found a few posts from random people that were selling tickets. And you have to vet these because there's a lot of scams out there. Yeah, be careful.

Yeah. And you might get killed.

That too. And I found a guy willing to sell him for face value. So I get a balcony nosebleed ticket for $86 for this event that would have cost 500 on Stubhub. I then sold that ticket to my buddy because I found another guy who had better seats, but he was wanting 200 apiece. I went, listen, I love Seinfeld. Nothing is worth $200 a piece for. You know, I'm gonna be counting down, like, every minute he goes, I'm like, this is $4 I just spent listening to this.

You need to enjoy life more.

I would say that my wife tells me the same thing, Ken.

I would tell you that the ticket is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And you just cause you aren't willing to pay for it, you can't make blanket statements to America and your position of influence. That's true. That is true. You're gonna start throwing guilt around like it's.

Well, I think there's people out there like me and there's people out there like you.

Yeah. People like me who enjoy life, and you can't take it with you. And people like you bury money in your backyard in old coffee cans.

Well, here's the end of the story. So I go, listen, I can't do 200 ticket max. I can do. Is 100 a ticket? He goes, I can't do that, but I'll do 120.

Did you come back and go, best I can do is 112.

Felt like I was on an episode of Pawns, let me tell you.

So if I'd have been there, I'd have apologized to the guy, and I would have paid the difference to get you to shut up and get inside.

I wore him down. It was last minute. I paid $120 for 11th row center. Those tickets on the ticket showed $200, so I felt real good about my situation.

But did you enjoy the concert?

I did because I paid what I thought was a fair price.

So it wouldn't have been as fun for you if you'd have paid full price for Jerry Seinfeld, a legend, 100%.

Would not have been.

Did you laugh at all, you little miser, you.

I enjoyed it because I laughed because.

You cut a good deal.

I was.

Did you laugh because you haggled that guy into a bad deal, or did you laugh because Jerry's funny.

A little bit of both. It wasn't a bad deal. He was. I didn't, you know, rob him blind. He was willing. He had last minute tickets to get rid of.

I think you manipulated him. But I like the haggle.

I like, listen, America needs more haggle. I feel like I won. So there's your lesson. America haggle. And also budget for spontaneous date nights. Even after how many years married?

26.

That's how you keep it alive, guys and gals out there.

There it is. All right. So fun to see you, by the way. It was really fun to see you. We compared notes. He did a lot of new material. About 20 minutes on marriage. That was really funny, Grace.

He still got it at 70 years old.

The guy's 70 years old talking about.

Doing work you love. He doesn't have to be doing that, by the way.

I felt old Kelly when I walked in the line. Cause Kelly and I are the same age. I won't reveal that. To honor and respect Kelly. But the people in the line were really old. And I said to myself, did you notice that?

I think Stacey.

Kelly. I was like. I was like, wow, I can't believe how many old people are lying. Then I was like, well, Jerry Seinfeld's 70.

Yeah. I thought I was accidentally in the line for old country buffet. I went, is this the mine at the right venue? Is there another thing going on?

Have been a buffet line. It could have easily been confused as that.

I thought afterwards, we're all going to get blue jello at lubies and call it a night, you know, just now.

Look who's doing the Seinfeld line. Way to go.

I'll be here all week.

All right. Triple 8825-5225. Enough about our boring social life. But that was an exciting night for me. Not an average third.

That was the most social thing I've done in a long time.

Yeah. Yeah. Demari is joining us now in Jacksonville, Florida. Demari, how can we help?

Howdy, howdy.

How y'all guys doing?

Well, we're having a blast. What's going on with you?

I'm pretty good, actually. I'm at work now, but I wanted to ask, so I just got. I just started doing nursing and I.

Got out of school, and I was.

Just wondering, what do you guys recommend doing first, last, or, you know, like, I have no debt. I make around 55,000 a year. I was just wondering, should I look at buy a house or rent a house or should I get a car.

First or should I go back to.

School before I do anything at all.

How old are you?

I'm 23.

And what do you mean by going back to school? Like, do you want to progress in nursing and become, like, a nurse practitioner?

Yes, for sure.

Okay, so you're a young man. You're making your first real money. I want you to, first of all, make sure that your debts are paid off. Do you have any consumer debt right now?

No debt whatsoever?

No debt.

You got money in the bank? Savings?

Not. Not much. Maybe a couple thousand dollars.

Okay, so that's your next goal. That would put you in baby step three. So, baby step two, pay off all the debt. Baby step three, save up three to six months of expenses. Once you do that, then you can let go off the gas a little bit and enjoy, make some upgrades, pay for a used car in cash, begin investing 15% into retirement. That's when the time is to make those types of upgrades. Right now you're trying to build a foundation.

Yes, sir.

So I wait on a house, just rent for a while. Is it just you?

Okay. You recommend written?

Yeah.

Well, I have a girlfriend, but she's a. She's trying to figure out, like, what she wants to do as far as a career. So it's mainly me with the income. But I just was wondering if you guys recommend getting a house or written.

Or, you know, no need to get a car.

Like I said, I would pause on that because you still need money to buy a house. You need a big down payment. You got to have the emergency fund. I want you investing. And so I think we pause on the dream of home ownership, and you're super young. If you do this, five years from now, you're going to live to see, to tell the tale.

What's the cost of the nurse practitioner? The next level of education, what's that going to cost you?

The schools that I'm looking at there, I would definitely, probably have to take out loans.

No.

How about we just answer the question first? How much is it going to cost?

Anywhere between 15 and 20.

All right, so add the 15 to 20, George, into the process there that you just laid out for him. Cause we want you saving that up so that there is no debt. And by the way, single guy making 55, saving 15 to 20 is not gonna take as long as you think. And boy, oh, boy, is it gonna feel good to not have to owe anything when you get out of nurse practitioning school. Do you understand that?

Yes, sir.

That's the goal, man.

So, demari, get this in your head. Debt is not an option. If debt was not an option, what would you do? You would just go and save up 20 grand. And you do the math as to how much you need to save a month to get there, right? You can cash flow this. You're a bright dude with no debt, so your income is now at your disposal, making 55. You can save ten or 15 in a year. So once you have an emergency fund, you have the money to do this program debt free. That's the time to do it. And then home ownership will come down the line.

Okay, good.

Sir, you don't seem excited about it, but I'm going to tell you something. You'll be excited if you do what we tell you to do, because on the backside of this is freedom to live the life you want to live. Hey, I want to do this for you, Demari. Let's. Let's give him the get clear assessment and the book. Find the work you're wired to do for his girlfriend. Let's see if we can get girlfriend some clarity going forward. Get her rocking and rolling, then put a ring on it, Demari, and let's get some double income going in there and keep rolling with the plants.

Then we can work on that house together.

There we go. We can save up a down payment really nicely once she's rocking and rolling. All right, folks, don't move. He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman, and you're listening to the Ramsey show. Be right back. This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, it's doctor John Deloney. One of the most common questions I get is how to get something off your chest. Maybe something that happened to you, something somebody said to you or something you've done that you're worried about because bringing it to light will disrupt your entire life. Getting things off your chest is important, but it's hard to know where to start. Therapy can be a safe, effective place to get things off your chest, to learn how to say hard things out loud, and to figure out how to work through whatever is weighing you down. I've been blessed to have a great therapist who helps me get those heavy things off my chest. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. It's flexible because it's online, so you can suit it to fit your schedule. You just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost.

Get things off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com. deloney. Today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp help.com deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me. I almost said Clooney.

That would have been very kind of you.

I don't know why that happened.

I would have taken Foreman, Lopez, Costanza, Washington. But thank you for choosing Clooney.

Yeah, well, no, I didn't. It almost. I just went, and I was like, what is happening here? Hey, listen, you know what? Today is short. Today's a big day.

Do you know today is May 31 by my account?

That's right. But it's also the last day for the big 20% off discount at ramsey solutions.com. the big store, right? Oh, my goodness. You got number one bestsellers like baby step millionaires for under $16. Let's not forget my book, because my kids need, need food. From paycheck to purpose. Under dollar 16, I've got to kick going to college. So, you know, think of me when you go to the store.

Think of Ken.

Think of me. You know, just do me a little favor there. You know what I mean? Daddy needs a new pair of shoes too, you know, so, gosh, I'm grind.

I gotta fund Mia's 529 still.

Ken, let's jump in here. George's well, your book's not because it's brand new.

We're like, we can't discount this yet.

All right, next year. Next year, you look forward to may that your book will be on a steep discount.

Can't wait. It'll be $4.

It really is. So, hey, the point is really great deals. And we know one thing. You people that listen and watch. That's right. And you people in the lobby. But we had a great looking group of people.

I feel like when you say you people, it's a little bit demeaning. But these are wonderful, sweet people, so.

Nothing demeaning about the people. I am a man of the people.

But when you say you people, it's got a tone.

Oh, you people like a good deal. Is there anything wrong with that tone? Nobody's offended at all in the lobby, George. So the point is, we know you like a good deal.

You, you know, I love a deal.

And so now is the time. The sale ends tonight, May 31. If you're listening, watching a little bit later in the day, you got to be looking at the old clock there. 1159 strikes.

Ken turns into a pumpkin. And the sale is over.

And the sale is over. So go check it out. Ramsaysolutions.com store. Ramsaysolutions.com store. Lyra is going, is going to join us in Cleveland, Ohio. Lyra, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

You bet.

So me and my husband, we're on baby step two. We're trying to pay down our debts and hopefully get into a new house in the next year or two, but we kind of run into a bit of trouble. We both have our primary jobs, and we've been trying to each take on a second job, but our first jobs are both giving us some trouble. Like, I work in healthcare, and it's kind of, you know, called moonlighting. Like, it's a big, like, they really frown on it. They don't want me to work a second job, but, like, I've got debt to pay down, and my husband is working real estate on the side. And when he's on his lunch break taking real estate calls, his boss is, like, in the corner of the cafeteria, stalking him.

Golly.

Wow. We've got a very interesting situation. We, you know, there's no conflict of interest in either one of these side hustles. Yes or no? Is there some sort of real true conflict?

No. I guess my question is, how can I approach or work with employers? Like, do you have any advice for employers?

I do. I do. But I have one more question, and then, George, if you need a fact find here. So you're a nurse?

Um, actually, I work in medical coding.

Okay, great. I'm sorry, I was jumping ahead. So you're in medical coding and. And. And what are you doing for the side hustle?

A second coding position, but just a.

Different shift for another company.

Yeah, I love that you're giggling like you're getting away with something. I'll address that in a second. This is so funny. Okay, and your husband does what. What is his job?

He works in it, and he's selling.

And he's selling real estate in the morning, early at lunch, on his lunch break, and then after hours.

Oh, yeah, he works nine to five, and people do, too, so.

Okay, so here's the deal. You guys just have, it feels like maybe some unhealthy leaders, but you guys just need to shut your mouth. Feel like you're talking too much or being a little too obvious. I wouldn't be doing real estate calls in the cafeteria in. First of all, you're not doing anything wrong. It's his lunch hour. Yeah. So let's just be clear. You're not doing anything wrong. So I don't want the audience to think, oh, Ken's given somebody advice on how to sneak around. No, but let's also have some common sense. And if the boss is stalking him and doesn't like the fact that he's got another job, first of all, it's on his lunch hour. So if I'm hearing the truth and we're not stealing from the company, then go out in the car, turn the air conditioning on, or go drive somewhere and sit in the parking lot of chick fil a, for crying out loud, or whoever, and make your calls. So it's nobody's business. So stop talking about it and go do it. You have the right to work as many jobs as you want to. Now, there's a thing going on, George.

In America today, where people are working two full time jobs, I call that professional polygamy. That's not okay. All right, but that's not what we're talking about, Lyra. Am I right?

Yeah.

Well, the point is, is just go. I'm. This isn't affecting my job at all. And just make it a non issue. Stop talking about it.

They don't have to like it.

They don't like it.

You're not breaking any, you know, moral codes. You didn't sign a contract saying that you couldn't do this. So unless you're actually violating a company policy, it's really none of their business.

Okay? So just be quiet about it.

Just move forward with confidence. Yeah. I don't know what my coworkers are doing at lunch. Some of them do side hustles. They're doing some video editing or designing something or doing real estate. I mean, and we're all okay with that as long as you're not infringing on the normal work hours. It's not. Unless your work is, you know, hurting because of it. That's when a leader would get involved and say, hey, listen, you're not performing your kra very well. What's going on?

Yeah, but this is not happening, right? Lyra, we've got all the facts.

Yeah. We're not stealing from company time.

Yeah. You know what? Here's what I've learned, and I learned this the hard way. You know, some people can get real catty. They can get real nasty when somebody's trying to make their own life better and their life sucks, and it feels like you've probably just been normal and kind of shared what you're doing, and then other people are like, did you know what Lyra's doing? She's working another medical coding job while they're smoking cigs on the back dock. Am I right? Okay, then. So what we do is we don't hang around vultures. And it sounds like you got some vultures in there. And all vultures do is fly around looking for some dead carcass to pick to death. And they're just nasty people. And I think you got some nastiness around you. And so what you're doing to remove the debt from your life is awesome. It's going to make your life better. I'd start hanging around better people. And if your coworkers are like that, this is a message for everybody listening and watching today. Stop talking to people that are negative and nasty and backbiting. Just ignore them. Just ignore them altogether.

If they've got a problem with you working a second or third job to get out of debt, that's a sign that you shouldn't be talking to them anyway, because they're losers. And I'm just being honest today. There are winners, George, in life, and there are losers.

You looked at me directly when you said the loser part. I just want to call that out. I'm kidding. But the other piece of this, Lyra, of the financial aspect is I think you guys might be doing some things out of order. You're saying, I'm trying to save for a house. Really? You need to knock out the debts first, then get a fully funded emergency fund. Then you can begin the process of saving up for that down payment. And I love the intensity that you have to do that, but we just need to make sure we have our ducks in a row here before we try to do seven things at once and do them poorly.

Yeah, I want to go back into something, George, because I don't want to miss the psychology that is so powerful from the people that we spend a lot of time with. And the audience in this show is trying to do something radically different. Right.

It's weird. And weirdness tends to get some flashback.

So even on your own journey, I mean, you know, I just want your take here. What's the key? What's the mindset key when you're trying to take on a journey like this and you're like, I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm just getting a second job, and my boss is stalking me.

Yeah, I mean, I did many side hustles when I was trying to get out of debt or save for a house, whatever it was, while I was at Ramsey. And I would go home and I'd just get to work and I'd shut up. I didn't need to talk to the coworkers about it. If they were, you know, if it were a friend, I'd tell them. But there's another great resource. Ken. I just uploaded a video today on 20 side hustles, and I ranked them with an s tier. So a through f s is the best for some reason. So go check that out on my YouTube channel, George camel on YouTube.

George camel on YouTube. 20 best side hustle you're looking for.

You know, I rank them. I tell you how much you can make. The pros, the cons, who this might make sense for.

Oh, boy.

So go check that out if you're inquisitive.

Yeah.

You want to make some more money?

Come on, let's go. I love that. Go check it out. All right, quick break. Speaking of money, we got to make some money. We'll be right back. To help you make some more money, this is the Ramsey show.

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The Ramsey show continues on. Thrill that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're here to answer your questions about your money, your income, what's going on in the world of work so you can make more money and then your relationships. Triple. 8825-5225 is the number. Let's go to Rochester, New York. Kaylee is joining us there. Kayleigh, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah, can you hear me?

I can loud and clear. What's going on.

Okay, perfect. Yeah. So I'm calling because I have a dilemma. My coworker accidentally backed into my car earlier this week, and she's wanting to not go through insurance and just pay out of pocket so that she doesn't have to have her rates go up. But I'm feeling nervous about that, and I just kind of wanted to talk it out.

Mm hmm. How well do you know this. This co worker?

Pretty well. Like, I've been to her house, and I know a bit of her financial situation too. So that's like a layer as well.

Do you guys like each other?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I like her.

I. There's a reason. I got an angle, George, but I'm gonna let you walk through this financial.

Let's do some fact finding. How bad is the damage?

So I got three different quotes, and they ranged from 1500 to 3600.

Whoa. This is a pretty serious situation.

She was in a hurry, huh?

This is not a dent.

Yeah, yeah, it's a big dent. Yeah.

Okay, so let's put it on the high end. Let's say it's 3600. She's saying, I'd rather pay you the 3600 than go through insurance. Does she have the money to pay for it up front?

No. Yes and no. So when I came back with those amounts that I got for myself, she said, wow, that is. Are they trying to repair the whole car? And I was like, no, it's just for the vent. And then she said, I found someone who would do it for less than.

No, I'm not going to let uncle Ricky Bobby handle this. We're going to go through a professional route.

She doesn't get to choose the person.

And she doesn't even have the money to cover the repair well.

Yeah. So that's like, one of the dilemmas is, like, because I do know her. I know her financial situation. She's a single mom, and there's just a lot of complex things going on in her life again, because I know her. But I worry that, like, if I did let her go and pay me on the side, like, what if I have to, like, kind of counter for the money or something like that, you know?

Well, that's not it. That's not an option.

You trying to be nice is going to rain drama on your life, and that is not worth it for you. Don't take on that burden because you want to be a sweet person, which I can tell that you are because you're calling in, you're, you're toiling over this dilemma. And I just think the long term implications of what this could be and how it's going to hurt the relationship is going to be worse if you let her go through this weird process.

Weird question, George. Maybe it's not a weird question. Do you have an opinion here or some actual knowledge on if this coworker actually filed with her insurance? Said, I backed into my coworker here. It feels like whatever bump in insurance could be less if she has a good driving record. I just wonder if it's. Oh, no. Cause you know what I was thinking?

She told me. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Well, Kaylee, what I was wondering is, is it gonna be less money out of pocket for her if even with the insurance hit than paying.

Let's say it's $3,600. Well, let's say the bump was $200. Now, that's ongoing for a while until her insurance bumps back down after a clean driving record. But I don't think her terrible driving record has anything to do with you.

You're just, again, not your fault. Yeah.

You've got to protect yourself in the situation, and I don't think that makes you a worse person.

And she doesn't have the money.

Yeah.

So that puts you in. So you understand that put you in a collection.

350. Oh, sorry.

No, go ahead.

Her premiums. 350 a month already. Four grand a year. Like, for one car.

Yeah. She's also nervous, too, because she has a side job, too, and she has to drive for it. And she's worried that, like, if she has another mark on her record, that she might lose that side job. There's just, like, a lot of layers here, obviously.

Yes, I understand. It's complicated, and this is going to affect her life in some way. I still would file a claim through your insurance because it's going to be really tough to get insurance involved later. And all you have at this point is her word that she'll pay. And we don't even know that she'll pay because she's going to say, well, since this guy can do it for 300, I'm only going to pay you 300, and it's on you if you want to go get some, get it done somewhere else. I'm not okay with that. Either way, this relationship is going to be strained from here on out.

Yeah.

But I'd rather you not take on the drama just to be a sweet person.

Well, thank you very much. I sits. Yes. That's kind of where my husband and I had landed, too.

It stinks. I mean, but, my goodness, what I don't understand is why her side job would be in danger. I don't get that part.

Well, maybe there's a insurance. Your driving record affects these side jobs, and if you have a certain number of dings, you can't, you know, drive for Uber. I don't know how the back end works.

Oh, I see the drive. Okay, I got you. All right, well, tough situation.

It's kind of like if someone committed a crime for the fifth time, and now, like, hey, they could have probation because of this. That's not your fault. They backed into you. I want you to protect your finances, and she will survive this. She survived it already with her terrible driving record, so hopefully she has learned a lesson. Drive safe out there. If I ever back into Ken's car, it's going to be a situation.

I promise you I will. I will drive to your insurance agent myself with the pictures. I'm not even leaving it up to you, mister Cheapskate, because you're the guy that's going to go try to get on. Larry. Bobby, watch the America. Heard how you haggled the poor guy last night for a sign for.

That's called resourcefulness.

I can't imagine what you do to a body shop guy.

I mean, I rarely have darkened the doors of a body shop. Rarely. Although I do park next to Dave Ramsey, which frightens me.

Well, because his giant truck could roll right over your little electric hot wheels.

And as great of a driver down.

He wouldn't even know it.

He doesn't always park in the lines. That's all I'm gonna say.

I'm gonna be honest with you. America needs to know this. I have ridden in Dave's truck many times. I'm not gonna say that he's a good driver.

I had to get a ladder to climb into that thing.

Is Dave fast? He's fast. Good.

It's hard to have good and fast.

And you got to choose one or the other. And Dave likes to get from point a to b quickly. That's all I'm going to say. Glad for the really nice restraining system that they call seatbelts. It could get a little hairy in there sometimes. George, can we get to Kimberly? Let's go to Kimberly in Knoxville, Tennessee. Kimberly, how can we help?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I will start out by saying that we are a large family. My husband and I. We have nine children. And we. About a year ago, we moved from Michigan. We sold our home and property there. And we moved to the Knoxville area. We have been renting a home for our size family. It's $3,000 a month. This is just for a basic home, nothing fancy. And our lease is up in the end of August. Our church offered us this financial freedom we started about five weeks ago. And we are 100% in. In the last four weeks, we liquidated everything we could. And we've paid off a little over $40,000 worth of debt. We have about 19,000 left, and we will have that paid off in December, January at the absolute latest. And the other thing that you might need to know is that we are expecting a settlement from a car accident by the end of the year. Early next year. That is going to be between 75 and 120,000. So our question is, because our lease is up in August, we are looking to either buy a property and build a home or to purchase a home that's already built.

And I know, based on just listening to this show, that generally his advice is to save up the three to six months, you know, savings, and then to save up for the 20% down. I guess I'm asking because in our situation with a large family, with rent being so expensive, we do have a good income. And that.

What is your income?

We make 150. Between 150 and 170.

Okay, so the question is, once the lease is up, can you go ahead and get the house or do we need to wait?

Yes. And the reason I'm asking is because we do qualify for a rural development loan on the land that we would be looking at, which is 1% down.

No, that's not a blessing in your life. Taking on 99% as a mortgage is not a blessing in anyone's life. Okay, here's what you should a 15 year mortgage fall for any of these programs? Go slow. I would just buy an existing home because you're going to have this massive project with nine kids while trying to pay rent that you're trying to cash flow. So I would just buy an existing home. And if that means you got to rent this place for another year at three grand, that's okay. You guys are making 14 grand a month, so it stinks to pay this high rent. It's probably going to turn into three grand in a mortgage anyways on a 15 year with the rate. So I wouldn't worry about that. Get the debt paid off, get the emergency fund, then save up the down payment, buy the house a year and a half from now. You'll be all right.

Yes. Be patient. It's so hard. But you got nine kids. You got to have patience figured out by now, I would think, holy moly. So summon some of that.

It's got to be a bunk bed situation going on there.

I'm exhausted just thinking of nine kids. This is the Ramsay show coming to you live, talking to you about your life, your money, your work, and your relationships. This is the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman, and George Campbell joins me. We are here for you, America. Triple 8825-5225 it's all about you, and we want you winning in all those areas. George is the resident money guru today. And they call me the work guy here. But this is all about money.

I just call him Mister Coleman.

If you want to make more money, you want to get a little bit better income. Become wealthy. Think like wealthy people, act like wealthy people. I'm your guys. If you got a question feeling stuck in your work or your profession, we'll take those calls today as well. Triple 8825-5225 Romeo, Romeo, where art thou, Romeo? Michigan is on the board. Jeff is there. Jeff, how can we help?

Tis I am here.

Thank you for having me today. What doth thou want to know?

Well, guys, I've got some questions regarding a couple things, but to start out with, define the benefit plans. I'm self employed. My net income is between 300 and 500,000 annually. I have one employee on the books, including myself, and I'm at a point here to where I've got financial advisors that I've worked with that I've just lost trust in. I'm getting all these different offerings to me. I've got a large sum of money that I need to figure out where to invest. It's sitting in a savings account at this time.

How much money are we talking?

I've got about a million and a half in a savings account. I've got about 500 in traditional investments. And the big thing is, I guess, is, you know, what do I do with that? And what are your thoughts on defined benefit plans for that three to 500k tax savings? It's pretty heavy.

How many people are involved in this business?

Just myself. I'm a sole owner.

Okay. Have you looked into other retirement plans like the, like a sep solo? Four hundred one k?

I have, yes. I think where I get caught up with that slightly, not that I'm caught up with that, but the ability for me to put 200k into a defined benefit as opposed to 66, 68,000 with the 401k, you know, front loading that defined benefit, to get that in there sooner than later. I'm 47, so I feel like while I do have a good chunk of change there in terms of retirement investments, I'm a bit behind on that.

Well, you always have a taxable brokerage account. If you run out of retirement options, that's going to allow you to build wealth and keep that money flexible. What is your money making? The 1.5 in savings right now? What's the interest rate on that?

5.5%, surprisingly.

Okay.

Wow, that's nice.

So that's creating a chunk of change and keeping your money safe outside of how much you actually need liquid. I would rather invest it. And over the long term, see that grow at 8910, 11%.

Right, right.

So have you worked, you said you, you didn't like the financial advisors you worked with? Have you interviewed more? Have you talked to a smartvestor pro, jumped on ramsaysolutions.com?

Yeah, I have. Well, actually, I'm in the process of that now, so I've got a couple of them that I'm speaking with. So I did take that step into that. Into that. That suggestion as well.

Good. And do you have a good tax pro you work with?

Yes, I do.

Okay. Between those two, I would kind of take their, the tax pro advice, the smart investor pro advice, and then you'll have a much better picture of what the future should look like. And I wouldn't just do things for the tax savings. I want you to have a bigger picture of what your life's going to look like. You make amazing money. You already are a multimillionaire. And so I think part of this is figuring out the goal. What are we doing with this? What's the. Why? What's the legacy I'm trying to leave that will help you create more specific goals than just, I want to grow money.

Right.

Sure.

Sure.

Do you have a family?

I do not.

Okay. So solo, single, no kids?

No kids.

Okay. And you want to keep this business a solo business?

I do, yes.

Okay. Can you tell us what you do exactly? I'm curious, for those out there going, how is this guy making half a million dollars solo?

Because he's solo, that's why. Guys got nothing else distracted him? No. No wife, no kids, maybe no life. It's possible. Sounds like you may not have much of a life. Yeah.

Yeah. No, there's a lot of time spent building this business, basically. Yeah. 15 years ago or so ago, there was a lack of product in the hunting industry that I was interested in. So I went ahead, went direct and started some digging overseas for manufacturing and started a couple of brands and kind of roller coaster those, snowballed those brands into something. Something big at this point in this industry.

Way to go in the hunting equipment industry.

Yes, correct.

Very impressive.

Wow.

Well, that's what I would do. I think the solo 401K is one of the best options out there for those that are self employed. But again, depending on your situation, how much money you're making, what your goals are, there's a lot of options out there. And that's where I would sit down with one of those Smartvestor pros and just lay it all out and say, what's the benefit of going with this divine benefit plan? What's the benefit of this solo 401K? What should I be doing with these, these bunches? Of money. And that's going to give you a better plan than just sort of winging it, which you can wing it and still do well, because you have been doing that. And you're a very smart guy. But I love your line of questioning. It makes me think you're going to be okay because you're asking the right question.

No question. Did you guys cover, what's the income? Did I miss that?

300 to 500.

Wow. Yeah.

Yeah.

Net three to 500.

Correct. So when you're not working, are you spending a lot of time alone in a field trying to shoot something?

No, actually, you know, that's the reason I got into it. And believe it or not, I don't have the time to do that at all anymore.

And how much are you working?

Last thing, it's more of a season. I call my schedule a school teacher. School teacher schedule. Because, you know, I've got six months where we're just completely swamped. And the other half, it's kind of catch up, develop new products. So, you know, I would say an average. I deal a lot with, with overseas. So our time difference is big. So, you know, while I'm in my shop for 8 hours a day, maybe, you know, I'm dealing overseas in the middle of the night for two, 3 hours here and there. So I would say an average workweek of 50 to 60 hours.

Okay. You may want to eventually look at, you know, some delegation, maybe hiring a team member or two to help offload.

Jeff, Jeff, I may overstep with you, but I think. I hope you understand my heart. George is. George has helped you with all the money stuff. I got to tell you something. I'm a little concerned that you wake up 30 years from now and you're full of regret because you had nothing else going in your life except this. Work, work, work. And I'm a guy who believes in doing what you love. And I think work is purposeful and I think that we get great enjoyment and contribution out of it. But it just. I'm just, I'm just encouraging you, not challenging you. I'm not trying to criticize you, but, man, you're working really, really hard. You're 47, and ten years is going to go like that. And man, I'd want you to enjoy something. So delegate a little bit. And when you're three months off or it's a slower time, figure out how to reproduce yourself a little bit and have some fun, man, you know?

Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you a thousand percent. I've been telling myself that I'm gonna do that for years now. And I feel like I'm at a point to where I'm realizing that I do need to do those things because I am getting old.

But, you know, I think. Can I tell you something? I'm gonna really recommend you sit with a really good therapist, because I don't think your life's on fire. But I think you need to get to the source of the control. The reason you are running the business the way you are is because you're absolutely terrified of letting go. There's some massive control, massive fear issues underneath all of this. That's just what I'm hearing and seeing, and I think that might free you up, man. So, gee whiz, go on a safari somewhere and get a massage before you go hunting. Like, enjoy life a little bit. Do you know what I mean? Like, just relax a little bit and enjoy the spoils, because you're crushing it. Or else you wake up one day and you're going, I got a bunch of money, but I didn't do anything with it. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me, and we are here for you. Triple 8825-5225 George, taking your money questions. And I'm here to help you with your income, professional work questions, so that you can actually get through those baby steps faster. Speaking of questions, George, today's question of the day comes from Tyler in South Dakota. He asks, I'm getting a 15 year mortgage and plan on paying it off within seven to ten years. Does it matter how frequently I pay extra toward the principal? Should I do an extra payment once a month or is there a better system for making this happen? Boy, this is custom made for you, George.

It is. And I just got to call out someone with a slight OCD that it's principal, pal, in the, in the question.

Oh, boy.

You see, it's not a, it's not a principle like the proximity principle.

My number one best selling book that you can get@ramseysolutions.com. dot.

That's neither here nor there.

I did that there. I see.

I just wove it in. He's a master of self promotion.

Nobody even knew what hit him.

So does it matter how frequently you pay toward the principle of a mortgage? Yes, it does. Should I do an extra payment once a month or is there a better system for making this happen? The faster you make the payment, the less interest you're going to pay. That's how it works. So I would not wait and do a lump sum at the end of the year. The faster you can add to that principal, the better. The way I did this was just added every single month. So if the principal is $2,000, you want to put 2500 instead or 3000 or even better, try to double the mortgage payment. So set a goal for yourself and try to stick to it aggressively. And seven to ten years is great. We found that the average baby step millionaire pays off their house in seven years, Ken, which is very encouraging and it's part of the reason I love a 15 year mortgage. It forces you into in this for savings plan to go, we're paying this off, worst case in 15 years, but more likely if you do it the right way, you're going to have margin to put extra on there.

So the faster you make that payment, the better. And how frequently? It doesn't matter if you do it three times a month or once a month. The easiest way with your lender and for your life is just to add it on your regular payment. So if you pay your mortgage on the first, put an extra $500 or a $1,000. Make sure it goes toward the principal, not interest or anything else or future month.

Yeah. Love that.

Hope that helps.

Hey, I've got a quick question for you. I make up a question here, but it's based on a real life scenario.

Okay.

Okay. What would you say for someone who's debt free and they want to make a very large purchase on a second home? They're debt free though. Okay.

Yep.

And they don't need the second home. It's just a pure.

It's a toy.

It's a toy. It's. They. But they're very wealthy. Is there a percentage of net worth that you feel comfortable with on a second home when you have zero debt at all? Did I ask the question properly?

Yeah, I think that's proper. I don't know that we have any Ramsey parameters heard of.

I don't think so either. But let's say, asking you to make.

I think the numbers would matter to me. So let's say you've got a net worth of $1.5 million between your house, your nest egg, and you want to buy a second home. That's worth, what, 300,000.

That's what I'm asking.

400,000.

That's what I'm asking you. What would be the percentage on someone's net worth? Say, you know what? This is a. This is. This is okay, because, first of all, you're debt free. But to take on a second home.

And this house will go up in value over time. It's still a toy, but it's not a depreciating asset.

It's another house. Is there a percentage in my, for instance, 10% of your.

I would say emotionally, I. 20% with your home and a second home, I wouldn't want your net worth to be too real estate toppled, which Dave's is, because he has an extraordinary amount in real estate. You know, 600 million. He's never going to catch up on the investment side. But again, as a portion of his net worth, his second homes are a teeny, tiny percentage.

Right. I'm saying what just. I'm not holding you to this. This is not a new Ramsay.

I would say a second home. Ten or 20% of your net worth feels right.

That's what I thought.

If it's 50% of your net worth tied up in that toy second home, that feels challenge.

Okay, good. But I'm very happy about this because I have a friend who had a really cool situation.

Did they get a second home?

They got a great second home.

Are you gonna get to enjoy the second home as well? It sounds like you have benefit in this.

I do. And you do too.

Are you serious? Are you surprising me?

I'm surprising you because I don't have many friends.

I had a friend, let alone wealthy friends.

I have a very wealthy friend who I called the other day, and I called to talk to him about Pickleball. He thought I was calling about a decision that he had told several of our mutual friends about. And I had nothing and no knowledge of it. And this friend asked me my advice, and I said, I'm going to treat this just like I would if I took a call on the Ramsey show and it was buying a very valuable home that is very important to him. And he was asking me, what should he do? He has zero debt and he's very wealthy. And I'm not going to get into the numbers, but this is a very public story. And he would. And I told him, I'm going to say it because he called me this morning and I coached him and his wife through this purchase. I said, follow your heart. They did. And I'm proud to tell you, George, that my friend bought the home alone house in Chicago.

No way.

Look at the audience out there. Very good friend of mine.

I got to tell you, I thought this story was not going to have a great punchline, but you really. You didn't oversell it?

I did not. They took his offer. Wow.

What was it? I think that was running. It was very public, like 5 million.

I'm going to stay Illinois. Very public. But my friend is the new owner.

And you're telling me I can go visit because I don't know this friend, but you're saying I could go with you.

You are a friend of Ken, and.

A friend of Ken is a friend of this guy. This guy. Road trip to Winnetka, Illinois.

I'll tell you what I think might happen. A very special Christmas edition of the Ken Coleman show might be filmed live.

For the home alone house.

I'm not even kidding. You think I'm joking? We've already discussed it. Yeah, I was involved. He said. He said, this doesn't happen without your coaching. So I did a little retro. Cause I played that percentage. I was like, if it's that small of a percentage of your net worth and it was in your range.

Yeah. The general theory is, if you could, if you lost that money, he's got.

He's got no risk in this house if he holds it. And they have family christmases there for two or three years and make unbelievable memories, and he flips it. It's a non fact.

I would film my own version of Home alone. I'd hire a camera crew, scriptwriters, the whole way.

Well, I'll tell you what we'll do. We will do a Chicago road trip and we will go. We'll go do something.

I cannot wait.

Maybe some social media. I could see you doing something really fun around the staircase.

Well, you know what's funny is we actually did a home alone spoof for a Ramsay Christmas party.

I know where I was.

Home alone in Dave Ramsey's house, the one that he sold. You don't want to hill.

You should ask for permission. Of course. This is a no brainer. And put that on your YouTube channel.

I'm wondering if it's, if it's safe for public consumption.

Of course it's safe. He's not even. Dave doesn't even live in that house anymore.

Yeah, but I was in a bathrobe, Ken, there's certain things you don't want.

But I saw the video, and there wasn't too much skin. You were. It was very modest.

It was a fun video. Me opening Dave's fridge, looking for food, hanging out in the pool. You know, it was a great time. It was a selfish play for me to make that video.

Yeah. I've never been so excited to tell millions of people about a friend of mine buying a house than I just was. But that is. How cool is that? I'm very excited about it.

So you have proximity principled your way into a lot of amazing situations.

I gotta say, you know, in all honesty, the reason I wrote that book is because I have figured out how you've lived it. Yeah, but that's a total. There was no intention there. We just met over Pickleball. And by the way, but pickleball, the.

New, like, we met on the golf course. We talked shop.

Yeah, it is.

Now it's pickleball.

All right, now let me turn this into some real content. All right. So we did talk about the net. That was good. We had a money, quite two money questions. And then a fun surprise.

We'll run it by Dave next time he's around to see what he thinks.

But do want to talk very briefly here about this kind of thing. So I read an article years ago, and I want our audience to catch this. As you're walking through the baby steps. One of the great benefits of getting debt free is that you can then move into places that maybe previously you could not afford. And here's what we know from the data, that if you live, the nicer the neighborhood you live in, the greater success chances your kids have. And the reason is, is because birds of a feather flock together, if we use that old phrase. And wealthy, successful people kind of in the same area, and relationships happen to where you can go play pickleball, like I did one night in my neighborhood with this guy, and you meet this guy, and he's. He's one of the first executives at Facebook, Spotify, this dude is never has to work a day in his life. He's brilliant, brilliant marketer, and you get to know somebody, then you get a coffee. My point is back to the proximity thing, getting control of your finances and having freedom and not living paycheck to paycheck and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

If you get free, guess what? You can actually hang out with the Joneses. You see the difference instead of keeping up with them versus hanging out with them. And when you're hanging out with successful people, great things happen to you because they're doing great things, and they go, hey, you want to do this? And so just a fun little.

Yeah, you're in. Your environment matters. The people around you matter.

That's it. Harvard's done the longest study on relationships in the world, 80 year study. And here's what they found. 95% of your success or failure is directly related to the people you spend the most time with.

Oh, that's why I hang out with Ken.

That's exactly right. And look how your life has gotten better.

I get to go to the home alone house.

Yes, you do. It's going to be fun. All right. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Triple 888-25-5225 that's the phone number to jump in. Triple 8825-5225 Ken Coleman. George camel with you. Let's go to Ryan in Vancouver, Canada. Ryan, how can we help today?

Hey, guys, thanks. Take my call. It's been a tricky last couple months, so I appreciate the advice. Just to get right into it. A couple months ago, I lost my job. It was terminated. There was a question about the actual validity of it, and I've been given very little information, well, actually, no information about the actual concerns around it. And then a couple of weeks later, I lost my fiance, and now I'm kind of starting the job hunt and just trying to get by in one of the most expensive cities in the world. So, in the meantime, I have racked up some debt and some personal loans that just comes with cost of living. The good news is I have about $20,000 in my rrsps, or, of course, in America, like, 401k kind of equivalent. So I guess part of my question is, should I liquidate part of that? I could likely use all of it to get debt free and then essentially start that process again when I find my new position. And then my second question is the actual litigation around the termination I stand to make. Not earth shattering, amounts of money, and I'm worried that pursuing it further would, of course, accrue more legal bills.

And that process might. Might just be tricky for me to navigate as well.

Hmm. You want to take the investment piece first? Yeah, I'd like to come back.

I just want to say I'm sorry for everything you went through. Your fiance passed away.

No, no. Sorry.

We just.

We separated.

Oh, goodness.

Okay. Me too. Because you said you lost your fiance, and I was like, oh, boy.

Okay, I feel a little better. Still a heartbreaking situation.

Did she dump you?

Fairly mutual. There was definitely a lot of added stress with unemployment and bills racking up, and we went our separate ways.

All right. All right.

Okay. So how much debt do you have? Totally total?

Probably about 20,000. And it's almost exactly what I have in those investments as well.

Well, the investments are retirement, and I don't know what the laws are in Canada, the penalties, but I imagine this is not. You're going to get hit badly taking out this twenty k. I don't think this is worth it.

The laws that I found are. It actually wouldn't be as bad as you think for a one time, taking it out, and my thought was to clear up the debt using that speaker one.

Well, no, it's. It's bad, Ryan, because you plug that into an investment calculator, and what that money would have turned into 2030 years from now, it's not worth taking it out. I'd rather you use your future income to knock out this debt than rob your future.

I agree.

So I wouldn't touch this. Let's pretend this money's off limits. What other money do you have access to or things you could liquidate?

Obviously, I have no income at the moment. I am able to get some personal loans when needed.

No, we're not going into any more debt. Can you promise me that?

Yeah. Yeah.

Come hell or high water, Ryan is not going into a penny more of debt.

Okay.

Okay. Once that's settled, we're going to get you income really fast. Ken's going to help with that, even if that means temporary income through side hustles. What were you doing before and what were you making?

I was general manager in the hospitality industry, and I was making 85 to 90.

Okay, so let's pretend you go back to that. You can pay off $20,000 pretty quickly, making 90. What's your. What's your living situation? Are you paying rent right now?

I'm paying rent. My rent is 3200 a month. And then after all my other expenses? It's close to four grand a month in general month to month expenses.

Goodness.

How long have you been unemployed?

Two months.

Is this case. Is it in any way affecting your ability to get back into the hospitality industry?

It likely is, due to the nature of how connected people are. But like I said, I truly have no idea the actual concerns at hand, and I was not able to get any information about it, which kind of. Therein lies the question.

Why are you going to court for all this?

I don't know why you were fired. Why are you pursuing legal action?

Because I was attempted. They attempted to terminate me with cause, which, of course, meaning there's no severance payments or any payments that were owed. And I just myself and my representation just don't see that that's a valid with cause situation. So that kind of lies the problem.

Well, how would you know? I thought you just told us you don't know what the situation is.

Yeah, exactly. So whatever they think that the situation is, they think is terms with cause. But I have no idea. And just knowing myself and my day to day, conducting myself day to day, I know that there's nothing earth shattering.

To find, but how are you paying these legal bills? On top of paying rent with no income?

I've exhausted all my savings and then have accepted some personal loans from family over the last month.

Oh, gosh.

Okay, George, I don't know what you think. Ryan. If I'm you, I tell the lawyer today, as soon as I hang up with us, I call the lawyer. Hey, Sparky. I'm out. We're not. This isn't worth fighting because I just don't think it is. This seems like a recipe for you just spending more and more.

Yeah, what happens when you're 40 grand in the hole to in legal bills and you don't even win the case?

Right.

What's the severance payment that you think you're owed?

On our best day, it's about 30, 35,000.

I'm guessing you'll spend that in legal bills.

Likely, but there's part of it that's worked into them covering my legal bills. So I'd likely spend it to get out of debt if I were successful.

Oh, boy. This feels like a Hail Mary. I mean, you might as well be playing the lottery if your lawyer is.

That convicted about it.

And it's not going to help with your future employment. It's not going to take long before they go. Oh, this guy's suing his former hospitality employer. Let's not get in the mix with.

Him, I'm sticking with what I said. I would drop this whole case and let's move forward in life. $20,000 for somebody of your ability. As George pointed out, this was like.

A half million case. I might go, all right, and if you had the money to actually pay the legal bills. But this just the juice ain't worth the squeeze on this one. As my friend Ken would say.

And as you would say, for that reason, I'm out. So I would call the lawyer and get out of this deal.

And, Ryan, I know it's not fun. I think you need to go downgrade an apartment and maybe get a roommate.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.

You can't pay 50 grand in rent a year and survive this.

Yeah, I applied to probably 50 apartments when I first moved out here, and this was one of two that got back to me. So the market's pretty saturated.

Well, again, see, when I hear somebody say that, and I. And I. It's coming up with an excuse as to why you got to keep overpaying. And George is right. This is where you start to go. I'm going to look for anybody who's got an apartment over top of their garage. I don't know if they do that in Canada. That may be weird to you folks. It's pretty normal here, you know, but I'm looking for any scenario that I can and where there's. Where there's a will, there's a way, my friend. And I think you've accepted a lot, and I think it's time for you to stop letting life happen to you. And you need to start happening to your life today. And in the hospitality industry, that's a high turnover industry. Am I right?

Yes.

Well, then go fricking show up somewhere and go, I'm a former GM. I'm ready to go.

Yeah, yeah.

You understand? Like walk in, in a suit, like, they could put you on a shift right now. I mean, this is the urgency that I think you need. I think you're just kind of a little bit like, you know, I mean, you're Eeyore and I want to see ticker. Do you know who that is?

They have that in Canada. Okay.

I don't know. I didn't know if Winnie the pooh went north of the border, but, you know, I think so, yeah.

And Ryan, the other side of this is your housing is out of control. I know it's a canadian problem. I understand. But you can't be bringing home five or 6000 and be paying four grand in housing. Expenses. You're never going to make any progress paying off debt, building wealth or otherwise. So that's the next thing to face once you get some income coming in is going, I got to figure this out. And if that means you get two roommates. How old are you?

27.

Great. Yeah, I had roommates up until I was married. And you will survive, and it'll help prepare you for marriage.

Really?

Really.

Huh?

You got to deal with other people's junk everywhere.

Oh, I see. You know, I have no experience where Stacy dealt with any of my junk. It was dealt with. You know what I'm saying?

There it is. You were the perpetrator, the instigator set.

Yeah, that gets fixed later, quickly. I I don't know. So anyway, interesting stuff there, Ryan.

I'm sorry, man, but we got it. We got to get some mojo and get to work ASAP. Even if it's doing side hustles, even if it's moving further out.

Yeah. Yeah.

We gotta make some changes.

Two, three, four jobs right now. Like, we're not sitting around and get rid of the lawyer. I wish I had a judge's robe and one of those old english wigs, you know? And I'd go, case dismissed.

He loves a wig.

I do love a good wig. This is the Ramsay show.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramsey solutions.com. agent ramsey solutions.com. agent.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. 8825-5225 Akron, Ohio is where we're going to go next. And Mike joins us there. Mike, how can we help?

Yeah, thanks for taking my call, guys.

You bet. What's up?

So I'll just kind of dive into it. My wife and I. So I'm the single income earner for the two of us, and we've got a baby on the way. Nice. Thanks. Yeah, it's our first one, so she's due here at the end of July, and I work about 45 minutes away, about a 45, 50 minutes commute, which hasn't bothered me until the closer we get to our daughter being born, it started bothering me more and more. So we've got a lot of manufacturing. I'm a tool and die maker and CNC machinist, and we've got a lot of industry around us. And I kind of looked around and had an interview that went really, really well. And they made me a pretty good offer. But it's a little scary, you know, considering we've got, our daughter is almost here, and so a job change is a little scary, but it was a pretty good offer. We're trying to decide what to do. And a third party.

All right. We're very excited about this. What is the offer? Is it better, the same financially? Give me the contra. The contrast here.

Right. So right now I make 29, just a couple cents over 29 an hour. And our insurance is not bad. It's a high deductible. But they, you know, match a little bit for an HSA. So it's a $6,000 deductible. And they give two weeks vacation right now and then. Also, 401K is at 4% if you put in five.

Now give me the new offer.

The new offer. So they did a probationary period of 28, and he's. Because it's different. A little bit different machines. So he said, as long as I get the proficiency, then they'll definitely bump me back up to 29, 50, and then anything beyond that is annual review. They also gave me. They're going to give me a sign on bonus of four grand to cover all the Cobra insurance coverage so that I don't lose my current insurance before theirs kicked in.

Right.

They also said that it's perfectly fine to take my two weeks vacation for my daughter being born, and then it would renew January 1. So I'm not stuck going through the winter and all year to get that vacation back. And their retirement is 6% match. And what was the last bit?

Well, Mike, I'm going to jump in. I'm going to jump in and remind me if something. If the last bit jumps in. But. But you're scared. So the question becomes, whenever I coach anybody that's dealing with fear, the goal is to find out if the fear is telling them the truth and protecting them. In other words, if I get close to a cliff and I start to feel a pang of fear in my chest, is fear telling me the truth that I could fall over and die? Or is fear lying to me and holding me back from great excitement? What's the answer, Mike? So what's the answer?

Basically, the thing that I'm not entirely sure. The thing that I'm afraid of is, you know, my, you know, my daughter is, you know, gonna be, is my first priority here.

No, no, no, no. What's that? What? You were, are you afraid that you're gonna get over there and not learn how to work this new machine? And they're gonna go, Mike's an idiot, and we made a horrible choice, and we're gonna fire Mike?

No.

Are you afraid?

Pretty confident in my abilities. I think that I'll succeed there.

Then what are you afraid of?

Not sure. It's just unknown. It's kind of that devil you know versus the devil you don't. Kind of.

Okay, there's the answer. Congratulations, Mike. That's the answer.

Yeah.

By the way, going back to my little analogy, if fear is telling me the truth and protecting me, I listen to it. But if fear is lying to me and potentially holding me back, I don't listen to it. It. And in this situation, fear is lying to you, and so we're not gonna let it hold us back. What you are afraid of is I've never worked for this company before.

Mm hmm.

But you're also afraid that that could turn into something bad and it not work out. And all of a sudden, I can't provide for a baby girl. Yes, but I know that's why you keep bringing her up. But, but, but see, here's the deal. What would have to be true for you to lose this new job? You need to make a list. I'm not going to make you do it on the air.

Right.

But let's make a list today. What would happen? True. Okay. I'd have to not show up for work repeatedly and piss my manager off on a regular basis on purpose. I would have to run the machine into a co worker and break their leg in 80 places. I mean, start making a list of all of the things that would have to happen for this not to work out. And then after you make the list, look at and go, what are the chances of those things happening, George? And I think it's where we go.

On paper, it, I'm like, this is a no brainer. And what are you saving on your commute time? What's the new?

It would be about 1520 minutes.

Okay, so you just saved an hour each day.

Yeah. Cause you're going. Are you going 45 minutes each way?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. That's 45 minutes.

You just gained 200 hours a year back in your life to be with your baby girl, to help out your wife to be. So I'm like, this is worth it no matter what. But you're also moving financially, no gap in income. You're making the same money pretty much. You're also having no gap in insurance. And so all the boxes are checked. I think change is just scary and hard, and it's going to be a learning curve. Becoming a dad, getting a new job. And it's a lot. I think it's okay to admit this is going to be a pretty tough season, but it's also one filled with joy and new things and embrace that.

Yeah. The toughest thing about your future, my friend, is actually not learning this new job. It's learning how to operate this new machine with no sleep. There is.

That's no kidding.

I mean, the new job is going to be a breeze for a guy like you. The new baby. Welcome to fatherhood, George. You want to tell him what?

I'm nine months into it and I'm very tired.

What's the hardest part for you, George? Encourage him a little bit.

I think it's like a mental. It's a way more mental and emotional than working a normal job. And so my wife now stays at home, and I'm like, God bless. Cause an hour of just taking care of a, you know, screaming baby, the blowouts, all of that. But then she smiles and you're like, this is all worth it. Nothing matters except for this little girl. Yeah. So it's a beautiful adventure, my friend. I'm looking forward to it for you.

Yeah. Mike, you're a good guy. There's no way you're gonna blow this. Take the job. Take the job today. But I want our audience to get this. We all deal with fear. We all deal with doubt, George. And I do. Let me tell you something. Fear and doubt, nasty little cousins, they hang out on one shoulder and one on the other. And fear, by the way, George, is just. I'm worried that something bad will happen if I move forward. That's what we just dealt with, Mike. That's what fear is. I've got an opportunity to move forward, and I'm afraid if I do, something bad will happen. Doubt is the. Is a little different. Doubt is, I don't believe that anything good will happen if I move forward. So they're very interesting. They're a little bit different, but they kind of hang out together, and they tend to whisper, and then they gang up on us and they start shouting at us. And when you get in a situation like that, and by the way, this place to your money, this place to everything, listen some of you are going, this Dave plan, this. This thing is hard, right?

And you start coming up with some fear. You start coming up with some doubt. And in this process, I have learned in my own journey to put fear and doubt on the witness stand, George, and just say, okay, this is what fear is saying. This is what doubt is saying. I'm gonna put on the witness stand, and I'm gonna see if there's any evidence that they're telling me the truth. And let me tell you something. If you can learn that process, it's simple little hack. You'll find that you can overcome fear and doubt. And one other encouragement. The only people, George, that experience fear and doubt are people that are wanting to do something good or are actually moving forward to do something good in their life.

The man in the arena, people that.

Are sitting on the bleachers of life, they don't experience fear and doubt. They're just, you know, elbow deep in a bag of popcorn, commenting on everybody else's life. And they don't know what fear and doubt is, because they're just sitting there watching everybody else. And so I want to encourage you, if you're struggling with fear and doubt, that's because you're thinking about doing something or you're in the process of doing something.

And I like that. No one lies to ourselves as much as we lie to ourselves.

Ooh, good one.

Isn't that wild?

Well, you know, the person we listen to the most is us.

This guy who's got two thumbs.

I need to listen to you more.

I appreciate that, Ken. I need to listen to you more. You need to get out of your own head. You know, that's what having great friends is for. We're basically the friends that you maybe you wish you had. I don't know.

It's true. And we'd like to be your friend. It's simple. Triple 8825-5225 I'll be your friend. George will fake it, but I'll be your friend. Don't go anywhere. We're coming back before you know it. This is the Ramsay show coming to you live. This is the Ramsey show, where we help you win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. Triple 8825-5225 is the phone number. Triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. He is George Camel, our money guru and expert. I'll weigh in on some of that. And how about some people out there, George? You were telling me during the break, they're struggling. They're not making the money they want to make. Maybe they feel they've been passed over. Maybe they've hit their lid. Maybe they feel like they're in an industry or a job where they're just not going to be able to make the money they want. Those kind of.

I get a lot of comments.

Those are my special.

And people are going, I don't understand the numbers. You're saying I make 30 or 40. How do people make 50, 60, 70, 8100 plus? And we get these questions all the time. And we can show you, if you're.

Looking to what I love to do.

Get more education to make more money. Ken can help with that.

If you're.

Maybe you're thinking, should I move because my commute's too long? We took a call about that last hour.

Right.

All of that plays into your real life, so call us up with that.

If you've got a question about how you can make more money, that's what I'm here for. And George has got some good thoughts on that, too. So it's a pretty good combo. Making more money, keeping more money. That's what we are.

Growing that money that you make. That's a piece of it. That's you, too, making the most of your money. That's what I help.

Now you're bragging? Now you're bragging.

It's braggadocious.

That's nice. Let's go to Micah in Detroit. Micah, how can we help?

Hey, how you guys doing?

We're having fun. What's going on?

Not too much. Yeah, I've been listening to you guys for a few months. Unfortunately, I was allowed to make financial decisions before I started listening to you guys. So I'm coming to you.

Usually, how it goes, you make the mistakes and you go, I should probably not do this. Let me go find a show.

No judgment, though.

Exactly. I appreciate that. Yes. My situation, I last year went into a fitness, opened up a gym with a friend of mine, and he agreed to cover the finances on the gym. And I agree that I be the sweat equity via the person working the grounds. And so his financial decision was to take out a personal loan to fund this gym, which at the time, I didn't really know too much about. So I was just like, sure, yeah, go ahead and do it. And I agreed to kind of let that loan be a part of our businesses, like monthly expenses. So essentially, like, we would be splitting the cost of it with the gym revenue, since we haven't made a profit on this gym yet. Like, all the money continues to come out of his pocket to cover the business loan or the personal loan each month. And he wants that once we start making a profit, that I would cede some of the profits to him to pay back the losses that were supposed to be a part of the expenses, which I feel like it doesn't really take into account the sweat equity that I put in and the amount that has really impacted my family financially.

The question I have right now is, do I stay without paying, working the hours on this thing and trying to find a way for it to profit and then us figure out how to make me, like, make ends meet with whatever he's put in because of that personal loan.

No, no. I'm not even away for the rest of that sentence. That's a horrible idea.

Yeah, I agree.

Okay, so how much money are we talking?

So it's a $250,000 personal loan. He had 15% interest on it. Yeah. Right. I've learned how terrible that is.

Has the balance grown?

Or you mean, like, how much has to be owed on.

Yeah, at 15% interest. Has it grown? Is it now 200? 6270.

So I guess now it is officially back to. It's finally under 250,000. We've been paying it back since January of 2023. So about 4800 a month comes out to pay that thing.

So what's the revenue of the gym?

We're about 20,000 right now per month.

Are you getting paid at all? I thought I heard you saying you're not being paid.

I don't get paid. Yeah, I don't get paid a penny.

Does he get paid?

No, because he. Because any margin that we have, our expenses are a little bit more, mainly because of the. Well, the loan is the thing that keeps us. That we haven't broken even yet. So, hopefully money into it based off of what that difference is.

So your expenses are how much per month, including the debt, all overhead, labor?

Yeah. Including the loan, it's about. It's 23 to 24,000 a month, depending on. Yeah. The hours the coaches work.

What is the solution here? I mean, you have to be making 30 month just to pay yourselves and cover the expenses, right?

Yes. I mean, the gym. I mean, it's still growing in revenue. Not as fast as we want to, kind of. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's what I'm kind of trying to figure out. I mean, the solutions on the gym itself in terms of making something that we have support and different. Different mentors from the gym franchise that help us out the solution on the personal problems with it are tough because I don't really bring any money home to my family.

How are you living? Is your wife working full time?

She does now. She had a remote job that she really likes. And for me, I usually, after my gym hours, we'll just drive Uber, you know, to try to make some money.

Is your wife not very angry at this whole situation that you put your family in?

Yeah, she's, well, thankfully, very supportive. Our marriage is really good. But I think both of us are pretty mad at this situation that I put us in.

Yeah.

Let's say you closed up shop today. You guys still owe $250,000 together.

Exactly.

So you still owe 125 just to walk away from.

Well, I have actually read a technical question there. Your business partner is the one that took out the loan. Is your name on this?

No.

So you don't. Your name is not on this deal?

Correct.

And this was the deal going in. He was going to do the financing, and you were going to do the sweat equity, which sounds guessing. You're running the gym. Right.

So it sounds like he was sort of the. The investor here who took on the risk financially to make this happen. Now, he could come after you in court and fight you forever to get this money back, but legally, Annie, you have. Oh, yeah. I mean, he could say this was partnership.

Wait a second. Wait a second. Did you sign anything?

We. Well, yeah, we have a partnership agreement. It's a very poorly written partnership agreement. So he had a. He had one of his lawyers that kind of mustard it up together that we signed and said that we were both responsible for the losses on the gym, if ever it had to close, we didn't have any. I never defined. Or I've had someone look at it. They said we never defined any losses just as losses, which he defines as financial losses. I would define as the losses I've taken because of the fact that I've worked hours without.

Well, here's the deal. I'm really. I appreciate what you're saying. George, step in here. If I'm saying the wrong thing or you disagree. I'm not worried about the legal piece of this. I'm worried about the financial for you. And you've already put in enough sweat equity. This thing sounds like it went from a dream to a nightmare pretty quickly. Is that true?

It doesn't sound like six months from now you're paying yourselves and this debt's getting knocked out.

Yeah, this is a. Listen, this is the problem with starting a business like this. It is a full blown risk. And the only way to win in this is you get more people that are paying to be a part of this gym, and it's not worth you starving emotionally, because that's what this is. Thank God your wife's got a good job. But this time to fold, man.

And there's two lessons here for folks listening. Number one, we never recommend partnerships.

Yep.

It's the only kind of ship that usually sinks. And then number two, we never recommend starting a business by using debt. And so, two hard lessons to learn here. The only way to try to make this happen is stick it out for a little while longer and see if you can get revenues up and expenses down. Well, that's how profits are created.

I'm only. I'm only okay with that. If, Micah, you are putting less sweat in there, right? So maybe you're only spending 5 hours a day at the gym, and you're spending, you know, I don't know. You got to make some more money.

Think you guys need to reassess and have a hard conversation about what the future of this looks like.

I'd want out of this partnership.

I would be getting out. Sorry, man.

Man, I need to do some push ups. That was a very stressful call. No pun intended. This is the ring.

It's way too easy to put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now, because these days, most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com willsquiz. Ramsaysolutions.com. willsquiz.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Thrilled to have you. Triple 8825-5225 I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. Let's go to Davenport, Iowa, where we join Brooke. Brooke, how can we help today?

Hi. I have a question about getting my husband and I on the same page. So I've been earning the finances for our household ever since we got married. We've been married for five years coming up in July. And we went through financial piece, and I think we went through all nine classes at a church, and he seemed to be on board. We did our budgeting for a little bit together, and then we just kind of. He didn't. He didn't like the way I was budgeting because I was extremely detailed and had a million different categories, and he just wasn't really excited about it. So now he just doesn't want to look at the budget. He doesn't, you know, it just stresses him out. What he wants to know is what's coming out for bills, what's coming out for spending, and that's it.

Well, there's a nerd. He's a little more free spirit. He doesn't want to dig into the details. That's okay. That's a normal marriage.

Yeah.

So it's not about being on the same page about, do you like my budget line item? It's, are we on the same page about where we're going financially?

Which feels like he is, isn't he, Brooke?

Yeah, I would say so. He does want to pay off debt. We've had some personal loans for, like, family that we've had for a while, like $1,000 of that. And I want to get those knocked out like we've had them since we've been married.

I get it. But here's what I'm hearing. Let me dive back in here. It feels like you sat down with him and you had 67 tabs on the spreadsheet and multiple columns attached to columns, and his brain just went. And he was like, I can't. Is that what happened?

Yes.

So this is not about easy on the same page with you. It's that his brain is kind of wired like mine, and your brain is wired like George's. And so you present that to George, and George gets giddy. You present that to me, and I'm just saying the same thing. I'm like, nope. I'm going to be out here watching sports. And I think what I heard you say is that your husband said, just tell me. Just tell me what's coming in, what's going out. I'm good with the budget. And if there's a couple things we need to talk about, present those to him one by one. Like, sit down with them and forget the spreadsheet and just say, hey, here's what I'm suggesting we do on our budget every month for groceries, and it's really not going to affect the food we eat. He's going to go, great. You know what I mean? Like, keep it high level, but you do the nerdy part. But as long as he has buy in to the overall numbers, I think I'm okay with it. George, am I missing something?

Yeah. He doesn't have to live in these line items and numbers. He just has to, to make sure. Hey, before I go buy the groceries, I'm going to check the every dollar budget to see do we have the money. So simplify it for him. Are you guys using every dollar right now?

No, I have another app that is like an envelope system, so it's very similar, but it's not the exact same.

Okay. Does he have this on his phone?

He does.

Okay. So he's got the login. He's signed in. He can see it all. Is it easily laid out?

Again, it's just all those categories that. Really.

Well, do you have too many categories? Are you splitting this up in a way that is overwhelming?

I probably have 18 categories.

Oh, my gosh.

Well, yeah, that sounds reasonable. When you lay out, what, everything. You know, the electricity bills, a water bill.

Right.

Groceries, eating out, insurance bills. Ken is looking at me like, I got 14 eyes right now, Brooke. So I think this is your husband.

This is actually playing out in real time. I think 18 is too many.

Okay, maybe. I think it's accurate.

Really? Yeah. All right.

I probably have that. Or more subscriptions and have them all. Or some people list out. Netflix is this much who lose this much? And so you add up everything in your life. It's. There's more than 18 expenses.

All right, I'm backing off. This is a great. I know. I'm getting the look from Kelly as well. I'm wrong, America. And I have no problem being wrong. It's where I usually live, so. All right, he.

What is the big conversation right now? Now when he comes to you and says, listen, I can't do this, what is he really saying?

I'm. I'm not sure. Again, I tried to simplify it, and then he just never looked at it. And just. And now we would do our budget meetings. He just kind of sit there. Okay, that sounds good. You know, and I'm like, well, do you want to change anything now?

I'm like, okay, he has to change something. The part of the budget committee meeting is that the free spirit has to get involved and have a say, because if he has some buy in and he has some skin in the game, he'll be more likely to pay attention to it. So you have to force they. That's part of the job of the free spirit, is they have to have a vote.

Let me speak on behalf of. Can I speak on behalf of all free spirits?

Do it.

All right. I think you need to pick a couple of things that he actually, really naturally cares about. So let's ask, what are some things that he spends money on that he enjoys. Brooke.

I'm not sure.

Okay, well, now we have a real marriage problem here. You don't know what your husband likes to spend money on.

I mean, when he. Because we've had our spending down to. We had that first at $10 a week. Now he has 15. And so whenever he does spend his money, it's normally at a gas station for like snacks or something.

Okay. Okay.

He's a man of simple pleasures.

I get it.

He's just snapping to a slim jim in a red bull and he's good to go.

Okay. All right. So he has no hobbies at all? He doesn't spend money on hobbies?

No.

Okay, well, I backed myself into a corner on this little example. Okay, so let's take the snacks. That falls under eating out, right, George? Restaurants. Yeah.

What is your line item for those.

Kinds of things, for eating out, we have dollar 25 a week. We normally go out on Saturday nights as a family.

Okay, is this connected to your bank account? Did the transactions just pop up and you drag them?

It's not connected to the bank account, but I do. Like I do it myself. I do it manually.

Okay. There's one reason he's not going to go enter the stuff manually. So what are you really asking of him here?

What am I asking?

Yeah, what are you asking of him to do on a daily or weekly basis that will keep you guys on track?

I don't know. I think I probably just want the emotional support more than anything.

I want to make sure that I'm.

Making the right decisions.

So this has nothing to do with the actual tactics of the budget. You just don't feel like he's bought in emotionally. And I think you guys need to have a new conversation where you share your feelings. Here's how I'm feeling. How are you feeling? And he's going to say, listen, truly, I just don't care as much about this as you do.

But there's not a whole lot to care about, too.

You're tracking transactions.

You guys are living really tight right now, trying to get out of debt. You don't you see what I'm saying? Like this guy's most exciting line item is if he gets a diet doctor pepper and a slim Jim, we need.

To live a little more. What are your actual goals? Are you guys trying to get out of debt right now? Now?

Yeah. So we have about 17,000 in debt.

What kind of debt?

So I have our personal loan between people that we owe with 1000 medical, 4000 credit card, 3600 and our vehicle, our van, 8000.

Okay. And he's bought in that we're going to get out of debt aggressively?

Yeah, yeah, I think so.

That to me is the major piece. The actual, you know, how the budget gets laid out and the transactions. It's okay if he's not sitting there, you know, as involved as you are.

Really quick question here. Is he spending money that you did not budget and you're going, hey, is.

He blowing the budget? Is he blowing it up occasionally?

He bought a dollar 200 boots the other month and I had not budgeted for that, so we had to catch that up.

And he didn't say, hey, can I buy a these boots? He didn't have a conversation about it.

We talked about it and what happened was it says all this completely like, I think the sole came off or something. So it was like something we had to get.

No, you didn't. I am mister resoling shoes, am I not?

George can keep a shoe alive longer than it should be alive.

You should. I should make you ship those boots to me. I'll. I'll pay for the soles, ship them back to you with some shoe polish. The guy will know what hit him and return the other boots. Here's what's going on. This whole conversation changed. Changed. You've been telling George and I that he's basically on board and he just doesn't like the budget process. But he's not on board. If he's guilting you and into $200 boot purchase, that's a different story when you guys are saving $25 to go out to eat as a family. I don't even know how you do that. I guess it is Iowa, but still.

Oh, boy. Well, how about this, Brooke? Try out every dollar premium. I'll gift it to you. Would you try it with him?

That has to happen.

Maybe that'll trick his brain. And it's so much prettier than probably the budget you were using. It's simple to plan spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most to you. It's going to help you keep a pulse. Get him on board. So check out everydollar for free. Everyone listening in the app store or Google Play. And Brooke, because I like you, you're going to get every dollar premium. Hang on the line. Christian will pick up and we'll get that over to you.

By the way, could have resold those boots. I'm going to say $40. Some shoe polish will cost you 545 bucks.

You got a brand new pair of.

Brand new boots and I'm not exaggerating. I should do a video on the YouTube channel how to refurbish your boots or drawers.

I'd watch it.

This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. The phone number is 888-25-5225 triple 8825-5225 George, what are you hearing about the real estate market these days?

Oh, boy. Well, there's sort of a standstill here. People are waiting with bated breath on the sidelines hoping the Fed fixes the interest rates, but not, as we know, happen. If the interest rates shoot down, home values are going to spike up. And so it doesn't solve a lot of problems for the housing market. And so we always tell people, buy when you're financially ready. Marry the house, date the rate.

Love that. Well, the best way to do that, by the way, is to use our Ramsey trusted program to find a real estate agent that you can trust who's going to help you make a really good decision based on the financial formulas that we teach here at Ramsey solutions. So we've got just an unbelievable army of top agents in your area. All you got to do is go to ramsaysolutions.com agent and interview some people, you know, talk to multiple agents and make sure you got a good connection with them. These Ramsey trusted real estate agents have years of experience and are going to help you make good decisions on pricing, marketing, making, choosing the right offer. So this is also if you want to sell your house, so do it with a really, really trusted agent, ramsaysolutions.com agent. Alright, let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina, where David is joining us. David, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the call. It's a privilege to speak to you today. All right. My wife and I are in baby steps four, five and six. We both have really good full time white collar jobs that we love, making good money. And we launched our second side hustle last year that has just been growing incredibly fast. We're going to double sales this year from last year. And I guess my question is we're rolling and we've been rolling for about 18 months now. 100% of our small business profits back into the business because we're able to live off of our full time income from our day jobs. When is the right time to start pulling out profits to hack away at our mortgage versus continuing to grow the business at like I said a pretty aggressive rate. It feels like it's not a math problem but I know emotionally it's hard to make this decision.

Well the IR's is going to consider all of this income. So what is your total household income with the side hustle?

So last year household income was 310 with the side hustle.

Amazing.

This year it's going to be closer to 410 because the business has doubled.

Whoo.

Way to go. What is the business?

It's an online retail store. It's kind of a niche hobby somewhere to paintball called Airsoft. I just found some products that I'm able to import and I've kind of customized them, sell them in the us market. Getting a really good margin. And then every penny we make we're rolling back into new products to expand the offering. So I have more ideas than capital. So rolling money back in to grow is really easy. But at some point I feel like we need to start getting some value for our nights and weekends we've been putting away.

Yeah. I would definitely strip a portion of this away and go this is going to be income that we're going to use to pay off the house to invest more to max out. I mean you guys have already able to and hopefully are maxing out all of your retirement options. Right? Right.

We are. Yes.

Okay. So you got the 401 ks if you have those backdoor roth iras maxing out an HSA if you have access to a health savings account.

We are. Yes sir.

And then beyond that I would be attacking the house. So what if we said hey every, you know, 30% of our side hustle revenue we're going to use to attack the mortgage and just put a number on it that you guys agree on.

Yeah. We could definitely do that.

What's left on the mortgage?

228.

I think this thing is gone in the next twelve months. Is that fair?

That would be. That would be twelve to month. I don't know. It's possible. That would be tight though. If we did ten k a month that would be 18 months to pay it off. I haven't done the math on one year payoff but that would be tight.

Yeah, we'll set a goal and say, ten k a month. And so on top of our normal income from our full time jobs, we're going to pull whatever we need to hit that ten k goal. And that will set you guys on a path to where you don't have a flat tire, where you're doing multiple things at once. I want you also to give more and to spend some of this money. It doesn't always have to be about the investing or pay down goal and just see where this goes. Is this something you want to do full time one day?

Yeah, that was the follow up question. When do we get to get our nights and weekends back? Is there a. I would.

I mean, if emotionally we're in that. If there's something you can teach someone else to do, hire a team member.

Yeah.

To run the online store, and you pay. You know, if. If this thing can make 200 grand a year and you pay someone 75 grand a year to run it, it's still a good deal for you.

Yeah, that's absolutely true.

So if it's something you want to get your time back, I would hire someone else to do it. If it's not something you're going to go jump and do full time instead of your day job.

Job.

Ken, what do you think about this? When is the time to. It doesn't sound like you want to take this to be your 40 hours week job. You like doing this as a side hustle. You'd rather someone else run it and you guys reap some benefit.

Is that correct?

I think I'd rather do this. I'm just a little anxious about the risk.

Okay, so let's. What do you think the risk is? What's the biggest risk that you're kind of worried about?

I think the biggest risk would be everything is coming from. From the region of Taiwan and China. That would be complete. My business would close tomorrow if we went to war or if there was any sort of global crisis versus my day job is stable.

Little upside, but all right, so that's legit. But that's kind of tied to this thing. There's never a time where that risk isn't going to be there. Fair?

Yes. Correct.

Could you find a different manufacturer and start to go, hey, hey. This would be a backup option if things blew up with this area, I could get manufacturing done here. It's going to be XYZ more expensive. It would cut into our margins a little bit, but we could still make it work.

Yeah, that's a great idea. We've been trying to expand our manufacturing. So we are in three countries now, but all of them are in that region from a cost perspective. So that's a good point. Even having a small operation somewhere else that we could ramp up in an emergency situation would be very valuable.

So I'm glad we went down this road, George, because that's, that's my answer to your question. What do I think? About what? I think you've got to have a backup plan before you leave the day job because, or let me say this, if you can quickly get a backup plan in place, because you need a backup plan. It's the idea. Not an idea, the idea. I think you are putting yourself in dire straits to have all of your manufacturing coming from that part of the world. World that is. I don't think that's alarmist in any way. I pay attention to this stuff all the time and everything I'm reading. I think you have a legitimate concern there. And I think if we learned anything, if small businesses that rely on manufacturing, if we learned anything about the pandemic, it is good business to try to figure out a way to get stuff manufactured in the US. Does it cost more? Yes. But is it more stable in the long run? I would say yes to that. And so I think that is the idea because I think that's the biggest risk to your business, whether you're working full time in it or you're in the, in the day, the day job, dream job scenario, which is where you're at now, correct?

Yeah.

Yep.

That's, that's.

But I would say one other thing. I always give this advice, this risk needs to be taken care of. But I would be comfortable if I were you, moving from the day job to the dream job if you have twelve months of your salary in retained earnings sitting in the bank.

So having a big cash position and getting your mortgage paid off is going to reduce your risk.

That also helps lower your expenses. So maybe I'm patient, George. Maybe I pay the mortgage off, then get retained earnings earmarked with twelve months of David's salary. You see what I'm going with? See what I'm doing that David, I want you having your salary totally in the bank so that we got twelve months and hopefully you don't have to use it, but it's there.

And then see, is the business sustainable? Does it continue to grow? Is it shrinking based on market demand and the economy? You'll learn a lot over the next year or two as you continue down that path.

Yeah, we're still really young. So that's a really good, really good advice, because we don't need to rush into this at that time. Building up a nest egg would be beneficial from us understanding where we're at as well. Yeah, that's really wise.

Sleeping well at night as you move from. Listen, you don't want the dream to ever become a nightmare. And when there's so much pressure just to provide for you on a business, it just changes everything. So I like the position you're in. I'd wait to get the house paid off. I'd wait to get the retained earnings. Up to a point, we had your salary, and I would get a manufacturing fix in the. In the books. And I think if you do that, George and David, I think I feel really good about moving over full time.

Amazing. It's an inspiring story, though.

Safety first. Put a helmet on. Right. Don't move. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 Triple 882-55-2225 our scripture of the day comes from psalm 25 21. May integrity and uprightness protect me, because my hope, lord, is in you. Our quote of the day from Abraham Lincoln, George. He was one of our former presidents.

I've heard of him.

16Th president.

I saw a tweet from about him the other day.

You have to do your own growing, no matter how tall your grandfather was.

Oh, I like that. And Abe was a tall fella.

He was.

Wonder how tall his grandfather was. Begs the question.

Very good question. You can look at both of us and tell that our grandfathers weren't tall, stout, stout people.

They were stout, stout folks.

Oh, it's good to be with you, my friend. All right, let's go to Virginia, not to be confused with where she's from. Reno. All right, Virginia, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for answering my question. Hopefully. My husband recently passed away about two months ago.

My gosh. What happened?

Um, he actually, um, got cancer.

Oh, I'm sorry.

How old was he?

Unfortunately, he was only 40.

Oh, my goodness. Virginia.

Oh, wow.

Well, how recent was this?

He passed a little over two months ago.

How have you been doing? Do you have good support? Community?

Yeah. My children. Yeah, I've been really lucky. My children are very supportive, and my husband and me had some financial plans that's set in place. So, you know, I'm on the fortunate side of the situation afterwards, so I'm very lucky. We could plan for you know, bad things.

Yeah.

How can we help today?

Yeah, well, so I don't have very much debt. I only have student loan in my name. But I did get, in my opinion, it's a substantial life insurance. But I'm just confused about what I should do going forward, if I should put in get a home, because currently I'm a renter, or if I should invest it. I'm not really sure which to do. I don't make a lot of money, but I'm able to keep my current bills are handled. I make enough to cover my cost of living. So I don't really need this money to pay bills or anything. So I just want to make the best choice.

Can you run the numbers for us? So tell us about the cost of the. The. Excuse me. The amount of the student loan and then the life insurance payoff.

Okay, so the life insurance is 125,000, which I've already received. I have not spent any of it. And then I have a $36,000 student loan.

And what is your income?

My income right now, my income was not been substantial for the last few years because my husband made decent money and we were able to just live on his money. We have four children. They're all older, three are adults and one under age 18. So I. I'm sorry, I lost track of what I was talking about.

So I was just curious what your income is or what you think.

My income is at about 35,000 to 40,000. But that's going to be a lot more when I start, you know, putting myself toward my business a little more. I'm a quickbooks bookkeeper. I do small business.

So you're kind of doing this part time?

I've been doing it part time, but my plan is as soon as I get things a little more organized and calm.

Do you have any savings?

We used the savings when he was sick, so we had enough savings to pay the rent and the bills for about six months. And that will be covered until the end of the summer.

So how much do you have right now in the bank?

In the bank, about 8000. Well, I have the $125,000 split between two accounts, but I have about 8000 other than that.

Okay. So first things first. I would get rid of the student loan debt, knock that out, then leave enough to have six months in your emergency fund of expenses. So add up what your expenses are for a month. Let's say it's $4,000. Well, then we need $24,000 in that savings account, protecting us from so we never go into debt again. So if we do that, you got 125 plus eight, right?

Yes.

Minus your student loans, which is 36. That leaves you with 97, and let's call it 25 for your fully funded emergency fund, that leaves you with 72,000 to play with, correct?

Yes. Yes.

That could be. If I were in your shoes, I would probably want to get into a home and have a fixed expense versus rent continuing to go up and then work on paying off that house over time. So I would. The point of life insurance is to replace income. If someone were to pass away. Now, in this case, he truly didn't have enough. We recommend ten to twelve times their annual income.

Right.

So this money is not going to really replace his income, because the point is, you would invest that money, it would create a return, and from that return, you could pull from, to, you know, replace the income. So in this case, you may be better off getting rid of the debt, getting, basically getting yourself in a better financial position, and using your own income to begin investing. Because you're younger, you have time to do that.

Okay.

How old are you?

My only concern, I'm 45.

Okay.

My only concern with that is the housing market where I live is really bad. For an average house, it's about $550,000.

Okay.

And I can't justify not only not buying that, like, I'm two people, three people right now.

Well, soon you'll be down to one. Will it just be you, you in a few years?

Yeah. Yeah, it'll just be me.

So why don't we just keep this money saved the 72 in a high yield savings account, and you can check out our friends at Laurel Road. They've partnered with my YouTube channel. They've got 5.15% APY. So your money will at least grow at that rate currently, and it'll keep your money safe, liquid, and it'll be growing for you. And beyond that, keep adding to that with your future income, because once you're out of debt, you freed up a student loan payment. So with that, plus keeping your expenses low, use the extra margin to start saving up more for that down payment. And maybe you get a condo further out of your area for 250 or 300, because you don't need all the.

Space, I was thinking. Right, right. And I don't want to. I don't want to have all that space either. It's just a lot of cost that I don't need.

Exactly. So you don't have to go buy a $600,000 house just because that's the going, you know, market in your area. So that's what I would do. That's your next few steps and start to build a life for Virginia and what that looks like.

Okay, great.

And I'm going to send you a copy of Dave's book, real Estate the Ramsey Way, to help you make the right choice. And that'll be maybe a few years out from now, you'll be a homeowner, and one day that house will be paid off. And I want you to be investing 15% of your income once you get the debt paid off and have the emergency fund. And that's going to allow you to build some serious, well, from 45 to 65, you know, you do 20 years of investing into, you know, if you're a solopreneur, look into a solo 401K or a Sep IRA or even a traditional Roth IRa. You can invest in those regardless of your employment, as long as you have income. So fully funding those over time, you're going to be doing just fine, Virginia. And again, I'm so sorry for your loss. This is not how you, you plan to spend, you know, the next 20 years.

No, it wasn't right. It wasn't how we planned. We planned on stockpiling money for the next 20 years so we could retire a little bit early and, you know, have some, some time, but.

Yeah, well, like our friend John Deloney would say, we've got to, we've got to grieve what happened and then create a new picture of what life's going to look like here on out.

We do? Yes.

Yeah. Well, we're rooting for you, Virginia. Hang on the line. We're going to get you that resource and stay with it. You've got some cushion. So no need to be panicked and work on that healing and then make those big decisions. Never want to make big financial decisions, George, in the shadows of a big loss like this.

Oh, absolutely. And a good reminder for those to get life insurance in place if you have anyone. That depends on your income. So if you're married, you got kids, get life insurance in place. Term life is the one you want. Ten to twelve times your annual income. So if you make 100,000, you want a million or 1.2 million in coverage. That doesn't mean that's what you pay. You're going to pay a very small portion of that.

People are shocked how affordable it is. And, and then, you know, especially when you start getting kids involved.

Yes.

I just, you know, I remember going.

Oh, boy, the peace of mind that life insurance gives me is incredible. So go to xander.com. they are our trusted partner when it comes to all things insurance, especially life insurance. That's who have, I have mine through my wife. Whitney's got mine, got her own policy. And it's something you don't want to think about, but it takes a few minutes to log on there and get the quote and get, get it done. But, man, by the way, little tip.

I always love to give when we talk about this to guys, you know, prepare for about six weeks before that. Get in really good shape. As far as your food, your, oh, yeah, drop some weight.

You want to get them, you want.

To get that cholesterol low to get that premium rate.

Amen.

I worked hard for that, pal.

And I can tell you immediately went.

And got cheeseburger as soon as the blood exam was over. All right, we're gonna get out of here. Thanks to Kelly Daniel for keeping us on the air. This is the Ramsay show.

Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like the Ramsey show, smart Money, Happy Hour, and the Doctor John Deloney show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic, like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.