Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one, best selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, and host of the Ken Coleman show, is my co host. Today we're going to be talking to you about your life and your money, and Ken, especially talking about your work and how to get some done to make you some money. Open phones at 888-25-5225 Linda is in Miami. Hi, Linda. Welcome to the Ramsey Show show. Hi.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So my sister has been on probation from work for the past few months, and she just told me this last week. So it looks like she's going to be laid off or fired for poor performance. And she's called to let me know that she's going to be moving in with us. So this is not okay with me for several reasons, you know, financial boundaries, home dynamics, etcetera. So I don't know what to do. I mean, I feel really bad. She's my sister. I have an extra bedroom, but I don't really have the space or, you know, I'm in debt myself, so I can't take on another person. And so I'm just calling to get your advice.

How old is she?

Almost 60 or 59.

59?

Yes.

I thought you were going to say 19. So why can't she perform at work at 59 years old?

Well, I've seen this been coming for years. She's very unmotivated. She's smart. She has two master's degrees. She's got a six figure job. But she's just let her life go downhill slowly but surely. You know, her weight, her finances, her job performance. There is some prescription pain medications that come into play, which I think just zap her motivation to perform well. But, you know, she's let this happen to herself, and now I feel like I'm expected to solve her problem for her.

Yeah. And so you and I both know that loving her well is not allowing her to continue on the path that she's on. Instead, make her face down these demons and turn the corner on them. Right, right.

Exactly.

So coming to hide in your spare bedroom is just enabling her. Continues.

I agree.

Just tell her that she'll be very. I love you too much. I don't care. I love you too much to allow you to continue on this path or me to participate with you on you continuing on a path that is destructive to you. You have refused to address your lack of motivation, your painkiller addiction and your weight, and you need to address those things. And you can't hide in my spare bedroom and not address them because I love you so much.

Okay.

And then she's going to be angry at you.

Right?

Very predictable. Because she feels entitled to something that's not hers. Your bedroom.

So. And she's also kind of using that card because, you know, it was our family house. Well, I'll explain. So I care for our elderly mother in my house and in my mom's will, you know, if she gives us the house, 50 50. But I'm explaining to her that upon my mother's death, that doesn't mean right now.

So it's not your house. It's your mother's.

Well, so I had to take out a mortgage on the house.

No, it's your mother's house.

Well, true, but is it in your.

Name or your mother's name?

It is.

Okay, quit talking around the barn then. It's your mother's house. It's not your house.

Okay, but I'm on the deed, so I don't.

How'd you get on the deed?

Well, because I had to take a mortgage out on the house to pay for my mother's caregiver. And since my mother doesn't have a job, I had to take a mortgage. In order to get a mortgage, I had to get on the deed.

Are you single?

I am.

Okay, how old are you?

I am 54.

Okay, all right. Well, you won't. You're the owner of the house, then. Your name is on the deed. It's not your mother's house. I was wrong. It's your house. Okay. And your mother's. You and your mother own it together. Your sister is not on the deed.

Correct.

Okay. Then she doesn't have any rights. Morally, legally, ethically, emotionally, nothing. The instant that your mother passes, you will be selling this house because you're going to be required to otherwise own half of it with said sister. And that ain't going to plan either.

No.

Yeah.

No.

So be ready to move.

Right. Well, I'm hoping to get all my ducks in order. I've been listening to you nonstop, so I'm hopefully. Hopefully I have a few years to get all my finances worked out, so.

Okay, here's the thing. There's a couple of. Couple of basic Henry cloud type principles in here from the book. Boundaries. Let's just recant them. I'm just channeling my inner doctor, John Deloney. Ken. And so I think the first principle is, people who don't have bound don't respect your boundaries are always upset when you put a boundary in place.

Yes, we've had that problem.

So as soon as you say no, expect her to have a little duck fit in the floor, walking and flapping around and all that stuff that she does, okay? And then she's gonna play the guilt trip card, and she's gonna play all the cards that people play when they want something that's not there, right?

She's telling me she's gonna have to live in her car.

Bull crap. How about get motivated and get a job? Or how about just actually doing your work at your job so you don't get fired? If you're living in your car, sweetie, it's your fault.

Right?

Okay, so. And that's rule number one, okay? Is that you set a boundary with boundaryless people. They, hundred percent of the time, get upset. You always expect rule number two. Enablers are nice people that give drunks alcohol because they are too sweet to say no. But it's not real love. Real love is. I want you to have a better life. My sister living in this bedroom, hiding from reality, continuing to spiral downward, is not good for you. I love you too much to let you live here. This is not about you in this discussion, Linda. It's about her.

I agree.

You care too much about her to give a drunk a drink to allow her to continue in a lazy, unmotivated, painkiller addicted, obese manner.

Right?

None of these things are good for you, sweetie. I love you too much. You're not addressing this stuff in your life, and I'm not gonna go there. What do you got, Ken?

I just hear a person, Linda. You're afraid of her. And there's some history behind that fear.

And I think, oh, she's your older sister.

Yeah, she's the older sister. Am I right that there's some fear based on history?

I don't. I don't have fear. I guess I feel sorry for her. It's kind of like something's turned, and I'm the bigger sister, and I care for my mother, and I took on all the responsibility.

Yeah, but my point is, you're afraid.

Of letting her down, afraid of this conflict.

Like her future is on your shoulders. And here's what I'm gonna tell you.

Yeah, I do feel that way.

I know. So here's what I would tell you. Everything Dave said, I rubber stamp. But I would say this. You're gonna have to choose today to focus your mind on how awful your life will be if you let her come back into it instead of focusing on how awful it's gonna be when she throws her duck fit. And Dave's right, that's gonna happen. But I think you have to choose between the two evils. And her being in your house is way more evil than you telling her, grow up, sis.

For her, yes. Love her well enough to help her heal. This is The Ramsey show, so here's a quick math refresher. There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money. So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use Netsuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system. Netsuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform. So join the more than 37,000 smart businesses like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to Netsuite. And right now you can download Netsuite's KPI checklist absolutely free@netsuite.com. Ramsey. That's Netsuite. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225 well, we are. In a couple of weeks here on the 21st and 22nd, George Camel and I will be doing Dave Ramsey's investing essentials. We're going to go in depth into investing beyond the baby steps. Detailed investing. People have asked many years, what do you do when you get into, you know, get past 101 and you go to 201 301 in graduate school investing?

What do you do? What do the people do that have a $10 million net worth or greater? What do they do? How do they think? And we're going to go into it. And I'm actually going to open my personal playbook, how I analyze a piece of real estate before I buy it and how I make a decision on an investment and what are the principles I use? And they're also the principles I've taught you guys. But so we'll cover the basics real quick and then we're going to go into in depth stuff. And this is an online virtual event. I'm doing it two nights. It is two different lessons. So you're going to be, you're going to be involved in front of your computer or television or however you're going to do it two nights in a row, May 21 and 22. And it's something you ask for a deeper dive. You want to know how I do it. And this is it. So tickets are $249. It's ramseysolutions.com events. Over 2000 folks have already signed up. It's a huge event and we're really, really excited to get to do this for you guys. I was polishing some of the content with the content team this morning and really starting to build out some of the slides and some of the examples.

I haven't stuff I've never taught before in public.

Extremely valuable. And for the record, I followed this playbook as well. And Stacey and I are going to be very comfortable in our old age, assuming that she allows me to make it that far. That part's up to me.

There you go. All right. Jessica is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

I'm great. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I am a divorced mom of two teenagers and I've been following your program actually since 2007. So I don't have any debt, no mortgage. I have a large savings and investments. I currently own a home worth about 600,000 and my boyfriend of two years recently just moved in in January and things have been going fantastic. However, we are looking at purchasing a home and we're just figuring it, trying to figure out how to navigate that. So because I don't have debt, what's.

Wrong with the house you're in?

It's 5500. I'm looking at a 900 square foot home right now.

900?

Yes.

Okay.

Like a weight lifted off my shoulders thinking about that. So I'm anxious just to have something that's, you know, he and I and smaller and manageable. Where are your kids going to live currently? They live between my ex husband and I. They're 13 and 16.

And you're going to put two teenagers in a 900 square foot house after they're used to living in a 5500 square foot house?

Yes.

So the 900 square foot house is going to have a small addition on it. It currently has two bedrooms and one bath. We would do an addition of one master bedroom and another bathroom.

Oh, so it won't be 900ft anymore?

Yes. Correct.

Okay.

And what will that cost? All in.

So the home right now is about 200,000 and it's about 250,000 for renovations.

Okay. Um. Okay. I. I'm okay if you want to do this. Uh, if I were your older brother and you called me and said, you know, should I do this, I'm okay with you doing it. Uh, there's absolutely zero need for your boyfriend to be involved legally or financially. If he wants to be involved legally or financially, he needs to be a husband.

Yes, and that is something we are talking about.

Well, then do that first. Let's get stuff in the right order. Don't buy a house with somebody and put deed your name on a deed with somebody you're not married to. That is a freaking nightmare.

Yeah, that's not the plan. That's not the intention. It would be under my name. But that's what I'm wondering. How do we navigate the financial piece of bills, of taxes, of renovation, those kinds of things.

You're gonna own it, and you're gonna pay for it all, and it's gonna be your house. And then if he leaves, it's not a problem at all. Unless he's your husband.

Okay.

You do this deal because it's a good deal for you. He moved in three weeks ago. He. He does not get to own the house.

He moved in in January.

I know, but you can. I mean, 20 seconds ago. Right? I mean, it's not. Yeah.

You're gonna charge your boyfriend rent? Do you think that's good?

Well, no, I'm not thinking rent.

Well, you're asking how he's gonna get his. How he's gonna get in. Yeah. He doesn't need his hands on any of this. And you don't need any of his money. You've got plenty of money. You sell a 600,000 square foot house, you end up in a 400,000 square foot house. I mean, $600,000 house, you end up in a $400,000 house. You can do this if he's not there. And you need to do this by yourself, or you need to be married. One or the two. Because here's what happens. You split up. Now you got to tear all this apart, and guess what? You're going to end up selling this house and moving again just to get the mess cleaned up because you formed a partnership, legally, it's a disaster.

So that's not really any my question.

You asked how to navigate doing this with your boyfriend. I just told you, don't.

I'm sorry. So not doing it with him on the deed or anything like that, but him living with me, essentially, in that home.

Yeah.

And you asked, how does he pay his expenses?

I'm sorry. So what is it you want to know about him living in the home? We must be missing something.

So do we split monthly expenses? Do.

Like, how?

What.

What does that look like?

What is your. That's completely up to you guys. Whatever you guys want to work out, your roommates okay, so that's why it's much better to be married. Then you don't have to fight over the dead gum. Who used the mustard? Okay? You just fight over who left the refrigerator door open, but not who uses the mustard. Right? So.

Right?

Yeah. Whose mustard is that anyway? That's what happened in college with your roommate.

It just doesn't make sense. Don't do it.

We do get married.

When you. When you do get married, it's all one. Yeah. We all own. It's yours. There is no yours in mine. It's ours. But until you're married, you have a roommate.

Okay?

And that's why it's not recommended, because it's very difficult to navigate emotionally, relationally, and everything else. The number of couples that far exceed the couples that are married financially. The data tells us, the actual research tells us, the couples that are married far exceed in their wealth building and their careers. The couples that are shacking up. The numbers are undeniable. There's no question about it. And yet today in America, more people live together that aren't married than are. So there's more shackups than marriages in America today. And yet the data is crystal clear that those of us that are married, we have what's called in. The statisticians call it the marriage advantage, in that we outpace in our incomes and we outpace in our wealth building those that aren't married and shack up. And so there's just no reason to do this. I mean, either get married or don't paint or get off the ladder, you know? But if you're gonna do it, you just gotta figure out the terms of being a roommate. But please, God, don't put him on the deed. And don't, don't. Don't let him put $100,000 into this deal to get this master bedroom added on and all that crap.

Then you got to figure out how to give him his money back when he decides he likes somebody else or. Oh, it's a painful mess. And so. And so. Yeah.

I just. I just think charging your boyfriend for utilities and rent just is a recipe for tension. We know that money issues are the greatest cause of tension within married couples, Mike. Goodness. I just don't know why you do it. I think you need a little bit of patience. You're a mature woman who's in good financial stead. I just don't know why you'd even take this on. I think it's. It's creating unnecessary relationship risk. That's what I think.

Yeah. But anyway, do whatever you want to do, Hunt. But number one rule is, don't buy houses with people you're not married to. You're not. You're saying you're not going to do that. That's good. Number two rule is it's very difficult to navigate through what you're talking about as far as who pays for what inside of these things. People have all kinds of different models, and some of them are more successful at it than others. And then number three, the marriage advantage in the statistics is something to seriously consider. And so we always are big fans of marriage around here because it, you know, because it's what's good for you. And we love you guys. We want you to win. So simple. This is the Ramsay show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 25 years, the only insurance company I've recommended is Zander insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years, they have constantly changed and updated their systems to, to make the whole process simpler and easier.

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Hey, guys.

Good, good. Where do you guys live?

Fort Collins, Colorado.

Oh, fun. Very cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. All right. And how much debt have you guys paid off?

$305,000 in 84 months.

Wow. Very good. And your range of income during that time?

About 145 to 300.

Okay, cool. Good for you. What do you guys do for a living?

Well, I was a general contractor and just switched careers to a business consultant.

And I am an environmental scientist with a large environmental consulting company.

Wow. Very cool. And what kind of debt was the $305,000 for seven years?

It was our mortgage.

Look at that. Weird people.

We've been waiting a long time for you guys to call us that.

I like it. How old are you weirdos?

47.

And you have a paid for house in Fort Collins, Colorado. We do. That is worth what, 675? I love it. And how much in your nest egg, in your 401 ks and stuff?

About 750.

Ah, look at you. Baby steps. Millionaires. Yeah. Way to go, man. That's so weird to say, isn't it?

It feels incredible, you know?

You know, you don't look like a millionaire. You don't feel like a millionaire, but you're a millionaire.

That's right. That's right.

Way. That's so cool. Good for you. Good for you. So, seven years you've been working on paying off your mortgage. Tell us the whole story. How'd you get engaged in this Ramsey stuff?

Dave? Ken, 2010. I hit a low point. I was recently divorced. I was a single dad of a two year old renting a small condo. And I took my daughter to this neighborhood park with these cute houses around it, and there was a real estate sign for one of them. One of them was on sale. For sale. I read the sign, looked at the price, and it just hit me that with all my debt, I think I was about $70,000 in debt. I am never going to afford this. And I just felt so terrible about myself at that moment. I went home, felt sorry for myself for a few days, and decided a few days later, before I even heard of you guys, I was never going to borrow money again. I was done with debt. I was going to pay it all off and do it a different way. About three months later, my church is doing fpU. I didn't want to pay the $100 because I was so focused on paying off my debt. And the facilitator scholarship me in and just made me promise that I would help facilitate a future class.

So when I got in the class, I was just ready to go. I was primed.

You were already going everything you guys.

Were saying, I was just.

All we did is tune up this engine that was already going.

That's right. That's right. So I was single at the time, and then I met this wonderful woman. We got married.

And then, yeah, it didn't take much for me to get on board. I always thought I was good with money because I had a good credit score and I paid all my bills on time. But it wasn't until he kind of introduced me to the baby steps and, you know, all the Dave Ramsey material that I was like, oh, wait, here's a path to do more. I had never even dreamed that, like, you could have a paid off house at our age that wasn't even in my mind, I thought if you paid your bills on time and had a few thousand dollars in savings, you were, like, living the dream.

You know, I'm struck by how many months this is a sizable payoff, too, but you guys stayed with it. I'm curious, for folks listening and watching, what did you learn about this process of discipline over that length of time?

Seven years.

Well, we learned that together we can do anything in those seven years, we had cash flowed. IVF. We cash flowed some house renovations. After we paid off our consumer debt, we paid that $40,000 off in the first year. And then we bought a really nice car. And when we bought that car with cash and we had this thing, I mean, that's the moment that I knew we can do anything. And we set this goal and said, we're going to go after it.

Is that the picture of the Dodge Ram and that we just saw on YouTube?

That's the new one.

That's the new one.

Oh, that's what you just got that. So that's how you celebrate it?

Yeah, that's right.

That's brand new.

Well, brand new to us.

Oh, no, it's not. It's not new. No. Oh, you're millionaires and you're. You can get one if you want.

We're still cheap.

Come on.

Very gently used.

We're easing into the.

That's a great way to celebrate paying off your house by truck.

That's right.

That's right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dodge Ram appreciates the free commercial. That's right.

But I would like to back up and just say, when we first got married, we paid up the. Then we were newlyweds and we wanted to expand our family, and it wasn't happening. Two and a half years later, we were like, okay, maybe we're not going to have a family. But then we decided to do IVF. And because we had been diligent with our finances and we had paid off all of that consumer debt, we had the cash saved up to do it. And it was such a blessing to not have to decide between expanding our family and paying off debt. It just felt like once we committed and we took all the right steps, the blessings abounded. You know, we were generous through the whole seven years, and things just fell into place when we were doing the right steps and we were, you know, taking it seriously, things worked out every time.

They flip the picture on and then back off. How many people in the family now? How many kids?

Five.

Five. I'm sorry, five of us.

Yeah, three kids. Five of us.

In the family. And yours from before is one of them. Right? Okay.

Our middle is his daughter, and then we have a 19 year old daughter we were blessed with through foster care. We have our six year old son that we had together.

I love it. Okay, I'm catching on. Okay, now I see. All right. Wow. Way to go, guys. So I think this is an important thing to just stop and say. If you're out there listening and you're sitting in a park with your two year old, looking at a house you can't afford, across the street that just went up for sale. That was 2010. This is 15 years later. You're worth one point seven, one point five million dollars, and one hundred percent debt free, happily married, kids everywhere. So that hopeless person sitting there after a divorce, beating themselves up, 15 years from now, you could be these guys.

Yeah.

I mean, this is a complete story right here. This is a full story arc from the bottom up.

Can I add just a little bit to it?

Yeah.

So I came from an immigrant family. I was born in Russia. We came to the United States in 1981. And I might get a little sappy, I'm not a crier, but I might cry up here, guys. My family worked so hard coming to this country with absolutely nothing. And all they wanted for us was for us kids to have a better life. And I had messed that up so bad and realized that in 2010. So to be here on the other side of all that, and, you know, my dad died young. He ended up developing mental illness. Sorry, guys. And, you know, just to tell my parents and my dad in heaven, you know, that we did this, and thank you so, so much for all the sacrifices that you guys did for us, and we just hope we've made you proud.

You have. Yeah. You're heroes, man. You did it. We're so proud of you. Well done. Well done. Well, who were your biggest cheerleaders?

Each other.

Each other.

Financial peace classes. Because you must have gone back and coordinated. Right?

We facilitated some. We did the legacy journey.

We facilitate legacy journey.

Yeah.

Yep. And then I put back to what he was saying. My family is also an immigrant family. My grandparents came in from Denmark. They had seven kids. They didn't speak English. They worked, lived in a church. And so it's like a legacy. Right. The sacrifices that our grandparents and parents made, I feel like they're our cheerleaders.

Amen.

You know, they set the platform for us to have this opportunity.

Amen. Amen. Well done. Well done. Well said. Well, I just think your story is fabulous because you painted the picture so with such bright color, where we could feel ourselves sitting with you in that park, looking at that house you can't afford and getting disgusted with yourself. Done the exact same thing. Get disgusted with myself. And that's right before crap changes, I'll just tell you, man, you get sick and tired of being sick and tired. That's when it changes. That's when you transform. It's not when you figure the math out. It's when you get mad.

That's right.

A righteous anger at the situation. And that just changes everything. And until then, you're just wandering along. Another broke person in America that looks like they're not broke, right. And you straightened it up, man. I'm so proud of y'all.

Thank you.

Well done. Very well done. Mark and Kelly, Fort Collins, Colorado. 305,000 paid off on their $600,000 paid for house. And, oh, yeah, they're baby steps. Millionaires in the process. What a great story. You guys are inspiring. Very well done. 305,000 paid off in 84 months, making 145 to 300. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Three, two, one.

We're debt free. That's how you do that. Woo. I love it. This is the Ramsay shadow.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose is my co host. Today, Michael's in Atlanta. I'm Michael. Welcome to the Ramsey show. How you doing, Mister Ramsey better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

So I just want to say appreciate everything you do for everybody. I grew up in a, in a. In an awesome family, awesome life and everything, and my two financial advisors were Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey. So I'm honored to be able to finally get her into a phase of life where I can make this phone call and, and being able to talk to you. So I thank you for that.

Well, thank you. How can we help?

By saying that I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Say it again.

I said, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

Yes, sir. So, I'm 27 years old, and I work from a family business. My second job is an ice business, and the owner is wanting to sell. Within the next two years or so, the sale will come with the building, with existing tenants and the ice company itself. He's asking for $1 million as a married 27 year old, renting from my parents with no meaningful form of assets besides vehicles and what we have in our savings and investments. What do you think? The best way that I can get a loan that big for that size? Me and my wife currently are living at my parents house. We have no form of debt besides, or thanks to you, no debt. We worked hard to pay off all of our student loans and credit card debt and everything. We do have one car loan right now that we're trying to knock out as quick as possible. But like I said, no form of assets or anything like that.

Well, I'm a little bit confused about the part where you listened to me for years and then you just asked me how you can borrow a million dollars.

Right? Exactly.

That's a little bit inconsistent, isn't it? I mean, you kind of know I don't do that, right?

Yes, it is. And with the other previous callers, I was thinking maybe I should change the word from borrow to be able to obtain the business for that price. So I do. I do apologize. Let me back up. What is the best route for somebody in my shoes to be able to obtain the business?

Okay. Because, well, I mean, there's. You don't have a million. No bank's going to loan you this. Okay. Like you said, you don't have the assets, you don't have the income. You're not bankable. A banker would just, it would take about a, I don't know, less than four or 5 seconds to make the decision. You're not going to get that. So even if we all thought that that was a good idea and we don't so what I would do is the first thing I do is separate the business from the real estate.

OKAY.

LET him keep the real estate.

Yeah.

And the business can be his tenant until you save up the money to buy the real estate later. You could do that out of the business. So what do you think of the million dollars? What do you think the real estate is actually worth? Market value.

So we haven't dug into the books or anything?

No, I didn't ask you about the books. I asked you about the real estate. What's the real estate worth? The building?

Approximately $750,000.

Okay, so you're wanting to buy an ice business for $250,000.

Sounds right to me.

Okay. So it should be making a profit after everyone is paid, including the manager of the business. After everyone's paid market wages. That business should be making a profit of 60 or $70,000 a year. Is it.

Oh, you haven't gotten into the book profit.

You haven't gotten into the book yet. You don't know.

Correct. Correct. This is. This is something I want to try to figure out a route before to see if it was even attainable, before I dug into the book.

Let me ask a real quick question, okay?

Yes, sir.

If you weren't working for this owner and they had not approached you about selling, they want to exit. Would you be wanting to get into the ice business if you weren't currently working for them and this wasn't an opportunity?

I believe so.

Okay. So, like, if you weren't working there anymore, a year from now, you'll be going, I got to figure out a way to get in the ice business.

I believe so. I think it's very lucrative, and I see a lot of opportunities in the. In the ice world itself. So I'm glad I was introduced to it very young, and I think. I think my answer would still be yes.

That's not your family, though. That's the. Your family's a different business.

Correct.

Okay. I want to make sure I got that straight. Okay. All right. Now, here's what I would tell my son if he was your age and came in and sat down at my kitchen table. I would say, you need a better. You need a stronger personal financial foundation before you start talking about buying and running a small business. Buying and running a small business will take the bone marrow out of you. It. You. It will drain you. It'll. It'll squeeze you like yesterday's dish rag, man. You got. Cause it becomes a mistress if you're not real careful, because you have to put everything, your. All your emotions, all your intellect, everything into it. And you got a car payment and live with your mama. So you're not ready to do that. So you guys need to get out on your own and be debt free and have a solid foundation in your life before you start talking about buying business. This is what I would tell my own son.

Okay. And can I. Can I ask you a question correlating to that?

Sure.

I see this opportunity, and I can see this opportunity as a long term investment, a long term, a great thing. Just long term down the road and everything. I'm not wanting to pass up on this opportunity as it comes to me right now and in my brain, you can tell me if I'm wrong. You're wrong.

I just told you you were wrong. I just told you not to do it. Pass up on it, pass it. Let it go. Let it go. Get in the ice business later when you get your freaking act together. You don't have your act together yet. About all you're good at so far is talking yourself into this. Yeah.

It's not an opportunity. It's a trap.

Yeah.

With your current environment, Michael, you don't have.

You don't have any money. You have a car payment. You live with your parents. I'm telling you, man, you really got to get out. You got to get out and get on solid ground to have a chance of making it in business. Business is hard. It's hard, and you don't do it from your daddy's basement. It's hard. And you don't do it with a car payment. You know, it's not. You need to get a solid, solid foundation, and I don't think we can stop you. You got your foot on the pedal. You're heading off the cliff. Nobody sign. Bridge out. Bridge out, bridge out. I don't care. I don't want to miss a chance. I'm taking the jump.

It's a chance to go swimming, to have it.

Sit, man. It's.

That's the metaphor there.

We can't stop you. So have at it, son. But I wouldn't do it. I'm telling you I wouldn't do it. I think you're going to have plenty of times in your life to get into business and do it from strength, not from weakness. And you need to build some strength to do that. But it doesn't affect me, honey. If you want to do it, you go do it. But you ask what we would do. And we love you, and we want you to win. I told you exactly what I tell my own son, who I want to have a great life and prosper, just like I want that for you. So you do what you want, but I don't think you're in a position to do this right now. And I would not do it. I'm not a dream killer, but I love stepping all over nightmares. I love kicking a nightmare out the door. Yeah.

So here's a quick message for.

And this.

Listen, we've all been your age and bright eyed, bushy tailed, excited about what looks like an opportunity. And this is a situation, Michael. If you were to jump into this in your current environment, you wouldn't even be able to be fully focused. Like Dave said, you need to be on a small business because of this financial stress. You're not in a position to where this thing can take care of you. And I didn't hear enough evidence either. And this is a positive. I'm not piling on here. I didn't hear enough evidence that he understood the business.

Oh, he doesn't. Yeah.

And that he could truly grow the business. In order to say I could actually run the business, I'd like him to prove to the current owner that he, through his efforts, Michael, we're talking about, can grow the business.

Scary. I would sit down and talk to the current owner. If you want to do this, Michael, here's a way to salvage the idea, I guess, and say, you know, put me in leadership role for the next two years. That's where I am. And I can get out and get, I can get my personal finances and straightened out, and then I want, and then I want to talk to you. I'll take an option to buy, and then I'll talk to you about exercising that option, but I'm not bound to it. Not contract.

Love that conversation.

And you can have, you'd be sitting there, learn the business inside and out. You may learn, you will learn a lot more about it than you know now. And you may learn the actual valuation is off.

Yeah, and that's such good advice. I hope everybody's listening to that, because that actually creates an opportunity. Doesn't mean it's a good opportunity. But right now, what you have is not an opportunity. If you go the Dave route there now, all of a sudden it becomes an opportunity and then have the option to choose to take the opportunity. And that's what I like about that. There might be some sweat equity in that plan, too, if you help grow the business.

The best business deals I have ever done in my life are the ones I passed on.

Yeah.

That's so true.

That's good. They're the best ones.

Yeah.

This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one, bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co host today. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money at 888-825-5225 Jay is with us in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Jaya. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you guys doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Well, thank you so much for taking my call. So the short summary of it is that I grew up with not a lot of money. Money was really tight, and now that I'm an adult, I'm making more. I'm able to save for retirement. I'm meeting a lot of savings goals, and I feel responsible to pay that back to my parents and specifically my mom. She has very little in savings and she's approaching her sixties. I think she's going to work through retirement, but if anything comes up with her, like medically or anything, she's not going to have any sort of fund to help support her in that. So I feel kind of responsible for that. So I'm wondering what your opinion is on that.

Hmm. Well, my opinion is that you're not responsible, but you're allowed to have that feeling. It means you're a sweet person. It means you love your mom, but morally, ethically, legally, you're not responsible. My children aren't responsible to take care of me. I'm responsible to take care of me. I'm 60. I'm 63. It's my job to pay my bills, and I don't want my children. I don't want to be a burden to my kids.

Okay, so where. So if I did want to, if.

You want to help and of the goodness of your heart, that's different than being responsible.

Yeah. So where would that fall in the baby steps? Because right now I'm saving up my emergency fund. By the end of the year, I'll have enough. And then, you know, I'm still in my twenties. I'm going to be saving up for a house payment eventually a new car, all that kind of stuff. So I'm still kind of working my way through building my own life.

So what's the amount of money that you think you need to contribute to help her that you want to contribute? What's that number?

So I was kind of looking at it. Over the next ten years or so, if I save, like, $100 every paycheck or so, save it in, like, a high yield savings account, I was looking at about 20 grand by the time she's, like, older age. And if she needs the money, it's there as a cushion.

So that's how many years from now?

Like ten to 15 years from now, just as.

So you don't need to do a thing except walk the baby steps, okay. Because that'll cause you to build wealth, and you'll have an extra 20 grand. You just reach into one of your accounts and pull it out. So the way you get ready to help someone else is you build wealth, okay? You don't have to have a mom fund on the side. You just go become wealthy. And the shortest way to do that is walk the baby steps. So you're how. You're how old today?

I am 28.

28, okay. And what was it you said you do for a living?

I work in tech.

Okay. What do you make?

Make about 100k.

Good for you. Well done. Okay. Be a great high tech 28 year old, and therefore I want you to be a millionaire when you're 38.

Okay?

So that just means you're going to manage all the way through these baby steps clearly and carefully and in detail, the way we teach you. We'll help you do that. That's what we do. And then when you're sitting on that, if you want to take, you know, 20,000 of your million and help your mom, well, that's a very nice thing to do. That is different than, I am responsible for my mother and I am a horrible person if I don't write her a check because she was good to me when times were tough, when you're good to your kids, when times are tough, because that's what parents do, but it's not because we expect a payback, okay?

So I do feel like a sense of responsibility. I do get messaging from her of her, like, kids are expensive and she wishes her life, like she didn't have.

Kids, stuff like that. You didn't cause any of this, okay? You didn't choose to be born. She chose for you to be born. That's on her. So you don't get. She didn't get to play that card. I'm sorry. Her whining does not transform you to enter, to ethically become responsible for her. Follow me?

Yes, I do.

Does that sound mean. See, the difference here is just love, okay? Even when you're acting in the goodness of your heart with an open hand out of love, that's true ministry. That's true charity. When someone's guilt tripping you and they're a travel agent for guilt trips, and they make you think you have a moral or ethical responsibility that you don't have because they somehow feel entitled or they have assumed the position of victim, that's way different than generosity. And I want you in the generous camp, not the, uh, obligated to something. You're not obligated to camp, but go make you a whole bunch of money, and then you can decide what you want to be.

Yeah, I really like that advice. Like, kind of just follow the baby steps, build my own wealth, and then eventually pull from that instead of doing something separate for her.

I mean, I think that's really good advice. If I live in a. I live in a community, and I know there's a child on the other side of the community that's hungry, it's a wonderful thing for me to help them. It's a wonderful thing for me as a person who's built some wealth to feel a sense of responsibility to make sure that child gets some food okay. But that is still an act of generosity, an act of charity versus the government coming along, pointing a gun at my face and says, we're going to raise your taxes so we can take $100 from you in order to spend $100 of your money to buy $10 worth of food, because we're the government. We're idiots. That's what taxes are. That's far from charity. It's inefficient generosity that where you stole someone else's money to do good with it, it's a whole different mindset. It's a whole different thing. One's compulsion, and one is volunteer, and your character is built. When you're volunteering, your character is not built. When you're doing something that is an act of compulsion, you are becoming a better person when you are generous, not out of compulsion, but out of capacity.

Yeah.

Jay, here's what happens. The weird irony here is if you receive that responsibility from your mom, and I don't think she's healthy, and I don't think she's trying to manipulate you, but it comes across that way. And if you receive that responsibility from her, what's going to happen is you're going to end up resenting her. And so the heart that you have as a daughter is, I want to be in a position to help mom if she needs it, and Dave has given you and you've received it, you totally got it, which is awesome. But the alternative here is you start to resent the very person you want to help, and you don't want that.

I'll tell you the other thing that goes in this whole discussion, that with our christians and christian brothers and sisters out there, some of them are over saved, and they get confused about honor your father and mother. Honor your father and mother does not mean you're going to give them money, regardless of their ridiculous behavior. That is not honoring. If your dad's doing cocaine, you don't honor him by giving him the money for it. That's not honoring. You don't honor someone by helping them with their misbehavior. That's not honoring. We honor the position of mom. We honor the position of father, not of every stinking behavior that the human being engages in. This is the Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co host, openphones at triple H 825-5225 hey, your brand new book, find the work you love, the get clear assessment, find the work you're wired to do, is coming out in May, early May, and we've got it on pre sale right now. It comes with the get clear assessment, which just under 100,000 folks have already taken at ramsey solutions.com and gone to the store and taken it. And the assessment, the book is how to read your assessment results, and it comes with a code for you to take the assessment.

Right?

It's absolutely right. So the assessment is really a self awareness test to let you see this is what I do really well. We're talking about the world of work. This is what I enjoy doing, and then this is what motivates me. And if you put those three together and we do it for you with very detailed results in a purpose statement that you can think of as a essentially the ultimate job description for yourself. And then the book meets you there and says, all right, how do I go about getting there? Now that I know who I am and what I want to do, how do I get there? So it's a great companion, great graduation gift, by the way. We have over 52%, just a shy over 52% of college grads, Dave, are not working in the field that they studied. And so this is a great graduation gift as we see a lot of kids moving from college into the real world. And we have high schoolers that have taken it as well. And again, a great awareness tool as they begin to think about what their future direction looks like. And I know for many parents, that's the biggest weight they feel at this age and stage of parenting.

Is my kid going to make it and find their way?

And that's true if you're 52.

Well, that's true, too.

Knowing what you're wired to do, it sets you free.

Yeah, it does.

And it gives you. Raises your energy level to go do it. Yeah.

And your income potential.

Yep.

You know, so it's a fun little tool. And now the book comes along and it's like me coaching people with the results so they can choose their professional direction.

Yeah. So if you. This is your last week to pre order because it comes out next week. The get clear assessment. Find the work you're wired to do when you pre order it. We're also going to give you the audiobook and the ebook, and each one of those come with a code for an assessment. So you're going to have a total of three codes for the assessment. So you'll be able to give one to a spouse or to a friend or maybe you've got two kids. I don't know, whatever it is. And it's a great way for you to get the access to this material and get all the coaching direct from Ken. And so people are buying it like crazy as grad gifts, but they're also buying it just because they want to know why I'm on this stinking planet. Why'd you put me here? Lord, what are we doing? Ramseysolutions.com store. And you can get all of those items if you order it this week. So be sure and do that. Caleb is with us. Caleb's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Caleb. How are you?

Hey, Dave. If I was a dog, I'd be wagging my tail. Thank you so much for having me on here.

You're welcome. How can we help?

Yeah, so I'm calling in. I was introduced to you by, by my manager who's mentoring me. And really look at. Got excited. I mean, I dove head fast and tore through the total money makeover. Got super excited to pay off our debt. And I'm married as well. And when I started bringing this to my wife, kind of hard moving through some of these conversations.

If you turn my name into a cuss word in your house.

I'm doing my best not to, Dave. Doing my best not to. So I'm looking at the book right now where she set it down. So she has been kind of perusing through it. And my biggest thing is I just want to. It's been about a month and a half since I finished the book, and I know I can't do this by myself. We're a team, and we have to both be fully on board, but I don't want to keep waiting to be making right decisions. So I've done things like, I have the every dollar app, and I've been trying to budget, but, you know, without it really being, like, a two person effort on this, it's. I just want to know, like, the, dare I say, the baby steps to try to get to the actual baby steps.

Where is she challenged the most? Where's the greatest objection? Because that's a good place to start. What do you see? What are you hearing?

Yeah. So we've had some conversations. One thing is, gosh, my excitement for it. When I get excited about something, I get very passionate. I can get kind of overwhelming. I do know that about myself.

Okay.

That's a good one.

So you did turn my name into a cushion. Okay. All right. She's already sick of Dave Ramsey. Okay. You don't. You got. You got some on your shoe, man. I'm just saying. Okay, so.

And then when I. When I get excited and I want to talk about these things, such as, like, hey, let's. Let's just stop using credit cards and, hey, let's sit down and actually do a budget every single, you know, talk about this every week so we can stay on top of this. And I'm trying to, like, bring in the things that.

Yeah. Are you 27?

I'm 26.

Ah. Okay. Almost like I've done this before.

Almost.

Okay. How long y'all been married? Five years or six?

Three. Coming up on three here.

Okay, good, good. All right. Because this is the same exact stuff I used to do, so it's easy for me. All right, so here's what I learned the hard way, because I'm wired just like you. I'm way super excitable. I get fired up about stuff. I go down a rabbit hole, and you can't even find me. I got lost down there. And so game on, you know? Pedal to the metal. Let's do it. What are we waiting on? I mean, why can't you get. Why can't you figure this out? It's smart. I figured it out. Let's go. And none of that, of course, works, so. And that's what you're finding. So what I want you to do is stop talking about what to do. We need to do a budget. That's a what to do. We need to cut up a credit cards. And stop using them. That's a what to do. What I want you to talk about is why? Why is it you want to do this? So that we can build some wealth and have some peace and be on the same team as a married couple. And if the number one cause of divorce and arguments in marriage is about money, if we could get rid of the number one problem in marriage has to make our marriage better.

That's why I want to do this. I want to do this so we can become wealthy and go on a vacation anywhere we want to go, anytime we want to go. I want to become wealthy so we can be outrageously generous when we see a need in the marketplace, a ministry that we can support or start. I want us to be wealthy so that our kids can go to school and have no student loan debt. I want to talk about why and get her involved in why you got excited. Nobody gets excited about doing a budget. The only reason we do a budget is because it's the shortest path to get there. The only reason we stop using the credit cards is it's the shortest path to get there. But nobody enjoys the exercise. Well, a few of you sick people do. We just enjoy being a little bit thinner. Okay, I'm one of those sick people.

That enjoys the exercise.

Yeah, but you see what I'm talking about. But, I mean, you see the idea being you need to sit down with her and quit talking to her about what we've got to do and say and ask her what would. What would be her favorite thing about being wealthy and what would we have to do to get there then. And how's it going to feel when we live in a paid for house and have no bills anywhere? That's what I get excited about, honey. And then you got a reason for you being excited rather than just, you know, slapping her upside the head with a book.

Yeah. And that's what I've been really trying not to do.

You did, though. Yeah, you did. Yeah, you completely did. And you probably start this conversation with an apology for doing that.

And I'm gonna add, just because you gave us a hint, this is a pattern for you.

This.

And she thinks this might be the next new shiny thing, and she thinks it's another fad. And I.

She thinks if she's quiet long enough, you're going to get over it.

Yeah, but I think you got to show her the facts and go, this is a lifestyle. And Dave gave you a masterclass on how to get buy in. I don't think she's resistant as much as she's just kind of like, whoa, take it easy, man. I can't breathe.

Down, boy, down. Down, boy, down.

Yeah.

Like a freaking Labrador retriever. Yeah, it's just like, I love them. They're just awesome. They're enthusiastic. Wow. It's fun. It's fun.

Yeah.

This is the Ramsey show, guys. Our rankings on all the podcast and YouTube platforms and even in talk radio are through the roof. Thank you to all of you out there who are telling people about the show and following us and listening and downloading and viewing and all that stuff you do. If you want to help us further, we could use the help. We really do need your help. If you click subscribe or follow on the platform that you're consuming this on, it's a big help. It jacks up every one of those algorithms. Thank you very much for that. So subscribe or follow. Also share the show. Some of them have a share button. Sometimes you can just cut and paste the link for the show, drop it into your email, send it to somebody, say, hey, listen to this. That's a big help. Or just tell people about it. You can do that, too. That works. Hey, this is where I listen to show on talk radio. This is where I, you know, watch the show. This is what's going on. Word of mouth is everything. And think about how many times you read a book or watch a movie because some of your friends told you.

And that's what, that's what drives us forward for sure. So thank you guys for doing that and continuing to do that. Albert is with us in Washington, DC. Hey Albert, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you, Dave. Pleasure to talk to you and pleasure to talk to you, Mister Coleman. My question is job hopping going to bite me in butt? The reason why I asked is because over the last five years, I've pretty much had five jobs. That first one I did have for five years, but ever since then, it's been four jobs in a row of only about a year's worth of time. The money has increased substantially, but I'm just worried this is going to come back and, and get me.

Yeah.

So are you chasing jobs for just money each time because of opportunity? And we saw that during the great resignation. So the environment was right for that. Over the last two years, that's changed. So my question is, were you hopping just for the increase or are you hopping trying to find that thing, find the right environment?

It's, all of these jobs have all been in the same industry, public utilities, and it just gone, the increase in pay has come along with an increase in responsibility, learning new things involved in the trade. And so it's just gone from being a meter reader, you know, reading water meters to doing water treatment and wastewater treatment, then county utility management and just on up.

Interesting.

So five different organizations, or were there any moves within one organization?

There's. There's a couple moves within one or two organizations. Within that year, I might have moved up from one position to another.

So how many times did that happen? That's relevant to the answer to your question. How many times did you move up within an actual Organization of the five jobs?

That. Of the five, that happened twice.

Okay, so, first of all, that's not job hopping. So we can take 2 hours.

That's a promotion.

Yeah, that. That looks good. You know, that shows somebody that you earned it or that you were perceived as valuable enough to earn it. So the other three are the ones that you start looking at, and. And if a narrative can develop, it will. So on the surface, yeah, three jobs in three years. You know, we need a. We need a narrative and an explanation for that. Now, let's say that one of the three you were recruited, did that happen? Did somebody come after you, or were you actively looking in? All three of those.

Three of the job changes were for moves. The other two were from LinkedIn and they were recruiting me. And that's what. That's why I'm asking. I've got a job opportunity coming up right now which would move after I've been at my current place for 14 months, and it was somebody who's recruiting me from LinkedIn. It's effectively going to be about the same title, but about a 40% pay increase.

All right, so let's look at the long term, because short term sounds great. Is long term. Is this set you up with a really good path forward, or is it just more money?

You know what? It's probably just more money. I think my current position has a path forward as far as moving up, and then so does this job. So.

Okay, so here's the deal. If both of them allow you to move up the ladder you want to climb, then it's a no brainer. And this is not flaky when someone is recruiting you, that's. That's a very different story than you just being with somebody for a year and going, I'm tired of this place, and I'm looking. Looking for the next place if someone's coming after you. That's the nature of the corporate world, and that's not flaky. That makes you look very valuable.

Okay, well, that sounds great. I like the way you put it.

But that has to be true, obviously.

And in that situation, hiring manager perceives that the first time someone comes along on LinkedIn and offers you more money, you're going to leave. That's the day you're not hireable anymore.

That's my. Yeah, that's my worry.

Yeah. If you turn into a mercy, if they, if they perceive you as a mercenary, you're gonna go to the highest bidder, then they don't want screw with having on board you, and then you turn around, head back out in eight months just because somebody else hits you on LinkedIn. So, you know, it's, you know, that, that, and I don't know how you keep that from happening with what you're describing. So I think you've got valid explanations. But if the, if the hiring manager perceives that you're going to go to the highest bidder, as soon as the next Lincoln LinkedIn connection happens, then you're done. They're not going to hire you. Yeah.

To that point, in this current situation, have you been in the interview process?

Yes.

And they know your history?

Yes.

Were there any flags? Did they ask you about it?

We did. We did have a discussion about it. And in fact, I may have just made sure that they understood that at my current position in this management role, I only had a year, and they said, that's fine. You have, you know, effectively ten years in this industry, and that knowledge is valuable to us. So they were fine with that.

That was to develop expertise. That's not stability.

That's right.

So that says to me that you have expertise in the industry. You don't care whether you were. I've only been there a year, but it doesn't matter. You've been in the business, so you know the business. That's what that's saying. That doesn't say you're going to stay. Yeah.

Here's the, here's the real answer, Albert. This is a 50 50 deal, Dave, because in today's labor market, we are still at 3.8% unemployment, and a lot of companies are desperate. I don't think we would go about that.

I'll guarantee you we wouldn't hurt.

I know, and I think that's what I.

That's.

This is one of those 50 50 deals. And I think what I would say is, is I want you always making moves that are moving me forward on the 15 to 20 year play.

Yeah.

And in that case, it's a calculated risk. But I think this has some risk, and you have to weigh that.

Yeah, it's a good discussion, Albert. And here's the good news. You're the kind of person that asks the question and is worried about it, which makes you the kind of person that can survive this narrative. And so they may hire you. They may hire you in that situation. But in general, for folks out there, when you jump, Albert's right to ask the question, because when you jump, to jump. To jump, as an employer, if I think you're gonna go right back out the door as soon as I get you on boarded, just because somebody hit you up on LinkedIn, like I did, like our recruiting team hit you on LinkedIn, you came over here, and then the next thing that comes along, you're gonna come along. Then I don't need to. I don't need a fool with all that. I'd rather just. I want to hire people. They're gonna stay.

That's right.

At least, hopefully, you know, it's a.

Blinking yellow light on paper. And then you're gonna have to win the conversation and show that you actually are a loyal person, and you just had a string of some opportunities. This is pretty abnormal.

I get this question on our entre leadership podcast. I do a podcast once a week for small business people, and I get this question all the time. And one of the things that Ramsey fell into, and this is really, aside from Albert, it's not an answer or directed at Albert at all, was that we also used our recruiters. We used LinkedIn. We'll reach out and try to hire someone. When we are doing that, we've had to learn to be very careful to not attract someone who goes, yeah, it's like walking. I told one of our recruiters, it's like walking down the street and going up and knocking on someone's door that does not have a for sale sign and go, hey, would you sell your house? That's right. They go, well, yeah, for the ride, dead gun price, I would. And because everybody's heard the story about somebody who paid too much for a house, and the guy just sold it. Yeah, okay, I'll take that. And you said, yeah, I sold my house. Why'd you sell your house? Got knocked on door. Give me a ridiculous number. Well, it's the same thing if you're out there recruiting on LinkedIn and you pull somebody in.

Well, I wasn't looking for a job, but I'll go over there, and then guess what? Then they're gonna do it. Again, then they're gonna do it again. If that's. So. We've had to be careful to not do the knock on the front door of the house routine on LinkedIn in terms of our recruiting, because a couple times we've actually done that, and it bit us as employers, it bit us. So, because they don't stick or they've got a horrible attitude, because they're just here for the money or whatever, and that's a horror. You know, you hire people that work in a job. God, just get. Oh, killing me, killing me. So, yeah, you got to show up and actually care. So, yeah, but that. None of that's directed at you, Albert. But that's just something we learned in recruiting during this great resignation. Thanks.

Right.

We were having to do more outbound recruiting than we ever done to get the right positions and some very specialized positions to fill. This is the Ramsey show. Listen up. Trying to reach your money goals without a rock solid budget is like trying to climb Mount Everest in ice skates. It isn't going to work. That's why we built the every dollar app, to help you win with money. It's the simplest, most straightforward way to track your spending and give every dollar a job. That way, you can stop letting your money push you around and start reaching those money goals. Download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you are with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225 Mike is in Las Vegas. Hey, Mike, what's up?

Hi, Mike. Dave, thank you so much for taking this call from me. I've been in a pretty good, lucrative sales career for a lot of years and recently lost my job. Performance based industry, of course things happen. But I started crunching some numbers, and I've racked up, including my vehicles and credit cards, about $93,000 in debt. I'm paying about $1,200 a month in interest alone. And so I've got this IRA with about $150,000 in it, and I was thinking to myself, cash it out, take the penalty, and wipe all this out and start fresh.

How old are you?

I'm curious. That's a good idea. Or not.

How old are you?

49.

What were you selling?

I was working for a hospitality company here in Las Vegas.

Okay. In sales, making about $6,000 a week.

And so it's just taking a little longer to replace the income.

$6,000 a week?

Yeah.

So you were making 300 grand?

Yeah.

Okay. And you were not performing and you were making $6,000 a week.

So I was in the leadership role, and it was a team thing.

I see. Okay. So you weren't actually doing sales?

Part of my job was sales, but mostly leadership, yeah.

Okay. All right. Are you married?

I am a single dad. I have an eight year old son. And so part of the thing is I don't want to put my son in public school. He's been in private school since he was in preschool. And so there's some big bills that I'm dealing with.

Well, that wouldn't be caused by the debt. That'd be caused by the lack of income.

Yeah. So it's all. It's all adding up. And, you know, I've had, you know, several months of a nest egg, but I'm getting towards the end of that. I'm trying to see where I can make some.

So how long have you been unemployed?

It's been in two months.

Okay. All right. First I'll answer your question. But your question is not your problem. It's a symptom of your problem. Your problem is income and job. Your problem is not debt. Your debt, your lack of income has. Has shined a light on the stupidity of your debt, but it's not caused the problem. The problem is the income evaporating and not replacing it for two and a half months. So the answer is no. You don't cash out your 401K for this. You get a job and solve the income side, because if you cash this out, you're going to get hit with. If you make the same kind of money, you're going to get hit with a 10% penalty plus 30% of taxes. So 40%. So it's like saying, hey, Dave, I'm backed against the wall. Should I borrow money at 40% interest and pay off my debt? The answer would obviously be no. You do anything to keep from doing that, because 40%. Oh, my gosh. You know, you never borrow money at 40% interest. You never borrow money, but never borrow money at 40% interest ever. So what we got, Ken, is a career crisis.

So we got a job crisis, so let's get the guy a job. Yeah.

So you've been in leadership. How long were you in leadership prior to actually being in sales? Just a sales role.

So I've been in leadership in sales for five years, and then before that, I was in just selling.

Yeah.

How aggressive have you been right now to get back in?

So I recently taken a job in solar just to see if it's because, you know, it's a booming market here in Las Vegas, but it takes some time to build up.

Okay, what does that mean? You stray commission or you're on a very low salary. I mean, what.

Yeah, the salary is 20,000 a year, and then it's all commission on top of that.

All right, so that you just took the first thing that kind of came your way, right?

Yes.

All right, so where you stand right now, you're. You're a veteran here. How long is it going to take you to get to a point where you're close to what you were making before in this solar company?

I'm thinking 60 days.

60 days?

Okay.

That's not that far. So, you know, you've got. Now we got to sit here and go, okay, we've got this gap. All right? And so how can we float and survive for 60 days, putting all your effort into winning? Because if you're going to start making the 25,000 a month, in 60 days.

You'Re gonna be fine.

I think you're okay. I wouldn't be panicking right now, only.

This time, pay off the debt with that dadgum income. Don't spend it all again.

I get on the phone with his debtors and I'd start telling him your situation and your reality.

Well, 60 days is not 60 days. 60 days is when he reaches the top.

That's right.

On the way to the top is a bunch of money.

There's some money there.

You're right. You know, after, if it's a straight line, if it's not on a curve, after 30 days, you'd be making 100 and a half.

So the reason I asked that question, Mike, is I'm trying to figure out what are we pivoting to or what do we need to do. But it feels like right now you're doing what I would coach anybody with a sales. With your kind of experience. Let's go get. We're not worried about the dream job here. We're not looking at 15 years from now. We're looking for stability. And it looks like you're going to have stability in 30 days.

60 for sure, I could find.

And what, you know, I'm paying $2,700 a month in these payments with $1260 that are going towards interest.

Right.

And it just like this is terrible.

Well, that didn't bother you when you had a job, right. Okay. So again, the debt is a problem. And hopefully this is your wake up call and you clean it up once you get your income back up. But. But paying it off with 40% interest is not a good idea.

Yeah, and not necessary right now.

No, it's not. You don't have to. It's just you just had a wake up call and went, this is crazy. I got to fix this. Well, yeah, I'll fix it after you get some income.

And if you're really stressed, you're not going to like this answer, Mike. But if you're really stressed over that $1200 with your smaller income right now, go work some other job in Vegas.

I'm going to tell you right now.

I just. I've been reading articles. Vegas is a hot job market. Sell something. Go get an extra job. Get two extra jobs, and, you know, start making money at night and weekends while you're building up your. Your pipeline. Like, you can take control over this. And I think you're looking for the easy out. And what we're telling you is, while it's easy, it's gonna hurt a lot. And you're just. You're chopping yourself at the shins. It's just dumb.

It's short term thinking. That's right. Don't do it. It's a bad long term play in a totally great short term term play. But, yeah, I would not. I wouldn't. No, no, no, no. Open phones at triple 888-25-5225 you jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Ken, the. Let's talk about the job market for a second. The. The job market in general has. It went through the whole great resignation and then the great regret. I wished I hadn't left the good job, you know, for a few more bucks here and there, and then that has now settled out, and we're kind of back into more of a normal rhythm. But we have almost no unemployment.

That's right. So we're still at a place where the job market's hot in the sense of opportunity. What's not happening is companies aren't paying, overpaying for people, and creating the musical chairs that existed. So now companies are slowing down in a normal hiring process. They're not panicking. A lot of companies waiting to see what happens in this election year, we are already, by definition, in a stagflation environment. We saw in the first quarter the GDP reduced and we're seeing inflation increase. So a lot of companies are sitting back and watching, however, of the jobs that are available, it's still in the workers favor. Dave, again, about one and a half jobs available for every person who is actively saying, I'm unemployed and I'm looking, this is not count for millions of people are just saying I'm out and I'm not interested in working. So favorable job market. But the days of skipping around like our previous caller this hour and getting twelve to 20% bump, those days have cooled dramatically. So now it's companies are looking for loyalty. And as a worker, you should be looking for stability in a company that says they've got a long term play and an opportunity for me to grow because that's, we'll never get back to what we experienced two years ago.

You're just not going to see that in the job market where people were just leaving and leaving and leaving and getting bumps and bumps and bumps. It's not going to happen. Companies learn their lesson on that. So short version, still a very favorable job market. Let me tell you one part of the economy, and this hits all of our audience. If you want to make more money to get through the baby steps faster, the gig economy is absolutely blowing up. Freelance work nights and weekends with those skills you have, it's out there. Go get it. Get you some more money.

Get you some. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one, best selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225 thanks for jumping in. We're glad you're here. Michael is in New York City. Hey, Michael. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey, Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

How's it going? So I don't know if they gave you the question that I had asked yet, but I'm a big fan of your show and I just wanted to see if I could take any wisdom for you and help myself kind of dig out of this little hole that I'm in.

Okay, what's up?

So, long story short is it started with a house, a foreclosure. I was 23 years old. I made a stupid decision to co borrow on my parents mortgage. Didn't know any better at the time. And four years later, which was this summer, I got a call. The house was in foreclosure and over $200,000. The negative end, in the blink of an eye. It was either got to have a foreclosure on my record or assume that property and take something that was well above me and my soon to be wife's means, and we're just trying to figure it out and make all our payments and make the best of a bad situation. In addition to some credit card fraud, which I have most of that resolved.

But you have most of that resolved?

Yeah, I submitted fraud claims. I had all the proof that they were not my card. I'm battling on one, but the two larger ones are taken care of.

Okay, but the house you did actually sign, it's not fraud, and. Yeah, no, that. Now you have it. So what is the house worth?

We inherited it for 750, and it's probably worth, like, 700.

So what's owed on it?

750.

So you owe more on it than it's worth?

Correct. And the mortgage? We had a nice one bedroom apartment, very comfortable.

I mean, how in the world does a house have more owed on it than it's worth in our current world?

Well, when the people who are living in it didn't pay it for four years, that ten found that off the hard way, and it added up very quickly.

Okay, and so you're four years behind. How are you catching that up?

They did a loan modification to where they lumped anything that wasn't paid for. Plus, there is no balance at signing, so that was how it worked. Typically, from my understanding, the loan modifications are supposed to be a little bit cheaper than the original for monthly payments. But due to the fact that it was so far behind, that actually increased the mortgage.

So what is your monthly payment?

$6,400.

And what's your household income?

A little over 160.

Okay. How old are you now?

29.

Wow. Huh.

And we had a nice apartment.

Doesn't matter. It's gone. I mean, did you own it?

No, but we had ourselves very comfortable to.

Yeah, but I mean. I mean, you get. This is in your name, and you.

You.

All that's in the. All that's in the rearview mirror, so. Yeah, it is in your name. You signed the mortgage, right?

Correct.

Okay.

So I guess a question I would have for you is, we're making it work now. We're breaking even. I, luckily, was a hard worker in my younger time, and we put away a nice emergency fund, a little under $100,000. So we have that to fall back on. But my worry is, if something were to go wrong, boiler, roof, you name it, and it can all go away very, very quickly.

Yeah. What I'm going to do is talk to one of our smart or one of our Ramsey trusted real estate agents in the area, have them come out and look at the property and give you a fair appraisal. On what they think they could put it on the market for. You might be surprised, pleasantly, that you could sell it and get out from under it. If you're not, let's say. Let's say your numbers are correct and you owe 750, and it's worth 700 today. Two years, you can sell it and get out of it, because it will have gone up enough to cover this.

So it's not doing any renovations to try to increase the value or save that rainy day fund.

Depends on. Depends on what they're doing, what it is. Do I want to spend $100,000 on this? No, but if I could spend 20,000 of my hundred and make this thing worth 800. Absolutely. And then sell it. Right. Yep.

No, that makes sense. We wanted to buy so kind of, in a way, we didn't have to put money down, so there was pros and cons to all of it.

No, I don't. You don't want this house? You don't want this house. Your wife doesn't want to live in this house. This house represents every time you walk in the front door, it represents stupid stuff you did when you were 23 and shouldn't have done and your parents misled you on.

Mm hmm.

And you. That. That comes up in my throat every time I walk in there. If I'm you. Yeah, it does.

I have my days where it's good.

And I don't have any good days. If it's me, I'm out of there as soon as I can. Get out of there and start my life fresh with my wife, somewhere clean. And screw this. Put it in the rearview mirror, man.

Why not sell it now, Dave?

What would be. He can't get out of it. He's got. Oh, wait a minute. You got 100 grand? What am I thinking about?

He's got 100 grand, cash.

Oh, crap. Put the thing on the market. Sell it. What am I thinking about? Thank you, Ken.

I was waiting for.

What in the world? Golly. Yeah. You got 100 grand. Your 50 grand in the hole. Sell it.

Yeah.

As fast as you can. Get a Ramsey trusted real estate agent over there right now and get this thing gone. Everything about this thing that you have brought up in the entire time I have known you, Michael, has been negative. There was nothing positive in this story. Put this in your rearview mirror and move on. And when you write a check for 50,000, anytime I do something stupid and it costs me money, and I have done plenty of that in my life, I always put stupid tax in the four column of the check. Down there at the bottom where you write the check, it says four put stupid tax. When I was 23, I was stupid and my parents misled me and they screwed me over. And I'm hurt and I'm angry, and this is my stupid tax check. And thank God I had $100,000 saved to be ready for it. And now it's in my rearview mirror, and I'm moving on. And that's me. If I'm you, I'm out of there. God. And he can, world am I, and.

He can stack that cash back. He's, he's financially sound.

Outside of that, if you're making 160, you're gonna be fine. Let's get this weight out, the emotional, relational, financial weight out from around your neck. You're trying to go swimming with a concrete block. Shoes, man. Get out of there. Be done with this. Yeah, that's good. That's good. God, I don't know why I can't add that's so aggravating.

Well, you had a lot of information in your process.

No, I mean, I was sitting there going, 6th grader. Could have done that.

A hundred grand is a real nice oasis to get out of this deal.

But I. The other thing is this, what normally happens to the human brain, and I'm going to accuse Michael's brain of this right now, is when you're in a negative situation, you tend to undervalue things. So I do think when the real estate agent comes over from Ramsey, trusted Ramsey solutions.com, click on agent, click on real Estate. When they come over, they're probably going to give him some good news on values because he's probably dealing with, well, I thought it's just, and I looked it up on Zillow, which is worthless. And then I'm going to actually find out what the thing is worth and I'm going to go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. I'm really out of here now. Yeah, because I don't, I don't have to write a check at all, is maybe what he's going to find.

I hope so.

That's what we're. That'd be great. I might be right and I might be wrong, but I'm probably right. This is the Ramsey show. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you@ramsaysolutions.com. Agent ramsaysolutions.com Agent Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. If you didn't know, it's financial literacy month and one of the ways we're celebrating that is to take questions from students at high schools that are teaching our foundations in personal finance curriculum. Today's question comes from Chelsea in Florida.

I'm 16 years old and my dad has been following the baby steps for several years. I really look up to him for that. But it can be hard sometimes when my friends have brand name clothes, live in beautiful houses and go to extravagant vacations. How can I appreciate what my dad is doing? Will our sacrifice allow us to do those things someday? I got chuckle just reading that because I can just see a 16 year old watching all that and watching the comparison stuff fly and they're on Instagram or the TikTok or whatever, the Snapchat, whatever the things are that these kids are on. And, you know, I get it. It's hard because you don't appreciate the sacrifice that dad's making that is not only going to set him and your mother and the whole family up, but it's also modeling the way for you to be very, very wealthy. And so I'd lean in if I were you, Chelsea, and I'd sit down and have dad explain the why of what they're doing, how it's actually impacting the family and expenses and savings and what the short term and the long term advantages are.

Sit down and be patient enough to let mom and dad explain the why and the how it's impacting them and how it's going to impact you. And I think if you do that, I think you're going to see some, some really awesome emotion. You're going to, you're going to understand that it's not about sacrifice, just for the sake of sacrifice. And I think you're going to learn some valuable lessons. And I would understand sacrifice through real facts and real figures. And then I would ask you to sit back and say, well, what's life going to be like on the other side of these baby steps? And how, if I don't get into the mess that my mom and dad got into, how much money could I actually have in the bank at 30, 35, 40 and 45? I think that's the advice I'd give you on this question.

Yeah. Will our sacrifice allow us to do those things? Someday? You'll be gone. You're 16. You're going to be gone. You'll be in college. You'll be out of college and married and start having kids, and then your dad and mom are going to be able to enjoy it. But, I mean, probably in the next two years before you're 18, is your family suddenly going to become wealthy and take you on mediterranean cruises? I doubt it. I doubt it. Unless your dad's making a million dollars a year and he's just being a tightwad, which. That's different than the baby steps. But if he's just simply living like no one else so that later they can live like someone. No, like no one else. They're cleaning up a mess or cleaning up the debt, they're walking out the process. It's going to be a little while even. Let's say they were debt free today, they did their debt free scream today, and you're 16 still, two years from now, they're not suddenly going to become multimillionaires. That's right. So I think the best part of the whole equation is this godliness with contentment is great gain. And so those people who have.

And, Chelsea, you're asking a wise, mature question for someone who's 36, but for someone who's 16, you're amazing. You're absolutely amazing to ask this question. Very mature, very wise question. And I will tell you, I think the most important financial principle you can possibly learn is contentment. If you can learn to sit where you are and be comfortable, you can stay out of debt because death's trying to get you something that you think is going to make you happy, and it's not going to. We're going to make your life okay, because your life's not okay now. Contentment. And with that's gratitude. And you, you know, you're. You're an amazing young woman. So I. But do I think you're going to get a Louis Vuitton purse for your 17th birthday? I doubt it. I doubt it. I doubt. I doubt that's on the horizon. So I think I'm going to start looking at the other people's lives and realizing that, eh, I used to look at nice cars at a stoplight and go, wow, that must be nice. And then I found out that the nice car at the stoplight probably has a $1,400 car payment.

So I don't really want to trade places with that goober. No, thanks. I'll pass. Open phones at 888-25-5225 James is in Des Moines. Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hello there.

How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, I've found myself in a kind of interesting situation. About three years ago, I made a career change, and I went into construction and mechanics, and I went from 25 30,000 a year to 45. Now I'm making over a hundred.

Yay.

Majority of my life. Yeah. Honestly, the majority of my life, I've been so poor that I haven't really built up any debt or credit because nobody would give me any credit cards. I'm at a point where I don't know, am I maxing out my 401K? Do I do an IRA? How much do I put into savings? It used to be I would buy the $3 pork chop because that's what I could afford. Now I have the option of the $24 ribeye. But if I keep on doing that, then I just don't know what the next step is, because I've never been here. I've never had financial literacy for my family. I'm not living Penny to Penny. I do have a couple thousand saved up.

Yeah. How old are you?

Just one of those, 36.

Are you married?

Single. No kids.

Oh, good for you.

No mortgage. I travel eleven months out of the year, and my work pays for my lodgings, and they pay for my vehicle.

And you make 100 on top of that?

Yes, sir.

Yeah. You ought to go bank some money. Okay, so here, the one thing. One thing will cause you to win. One thing will cause you to win. Start telling your money what to do before you wonder where it went. It's called a budget.

Fair enough.

So download the everydollar app, and I will give you a one year subscription to the vert, to the premium version where it hooks to your bank. Okay, so download the every dollar app and start telling your money what to do, because you already know the a, I don't need to spend it all. You just told us that. And b, I do have a little margin. Now I don't have to eat dog food. Now I can eat good food.

Yeah. And honestly, I've been listening since it was rice and beans and beans and rice.

Yeah.

And that's what it's been. So I'm like, wait, I don't know.

Well, now you've got. You don't have any debt. You don't have any personal overhead to amount to anything.

No.

So you ought to be able to save, like, a crazy guy. And you ought to be able to have some enjoyment in your budget. Just intentionality. I just want you to sit down and say, okay, I got, you know, I got $8,000. I got $6,000 coming home every month. I don't have a car payment. I don't have a house payment. I don't have any food issues. So what, what can I, you know, how am I going to spend the $6,000? I want you to give every one of those $6,000 a name. And there's only three things you can do with money. You can invest and save it. You can give it, and you can enjoy it, and you should do all three.

And so how do I learn the ratio on those three? Because I was raised with 10% tithe, which I still do good. The investing, I figured I could get that with my IRA, my 401K. I'm very nervous of stocks. I don't even want to play that game.

Okay.

And then it's the enjoyment part. Like, I could afford a trip to New Zealand, but do I really need to go to New Zealand? Sounds like it would be fun, but.

Yeah, sounds like you need to.

You just have to save up for it. So you walk the baby steps out. So we want you to get three to six months expenses right away. Dave has led you to the budget. Once you figure out what you actually have to save every month with your minimal expenses, we want you putting three to six months expenses in the bank. That's baby step three. Now you got a really fat emergency fund. After that, you start investing 15% of your income and go to ramsaysolutions.com. Find a smartvestor pro. I know you're traveling all over the place, but, you know, maybe Des Moines, that's your base. And sit down and. And they know our strategy. And start an investment strategy there. And you're going to make up ground really fast with your low overhead, James. And now, like Dave is saying, you're giving it and you're going to New Zealand all cash. I mean, you're really set up. So the budget is the first step, and then baby steps. Three and four are right there in front of you.

Yeah, I think you can eat a nice steak, go to New Zealand, invest in your 401K aggressively, and be generous. All three. With your income and your living situation, like, you're gonna be able to do all three things and not do harm to any one of them mathematically. This is the Ramsey show. Do you listen to the Ramsey show for motivation? You want to know what's even more motivating? Attending a Ramsey event, the ultimate motivational experience that's fully focused on helping you eliminate money stress. Join us for the total money makeover weekend on May 10 and 11th in Nashville and leave money stress at the door for good podcast listeners. Use the code 50 off to save $50 on standard level tickets. Get yours@ramseysolutions.com slash events. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is our co host. So we were telling the last guy who's making more money he's ever made in his life, how do you take care of that? How do you make it behave? Well, you make it behave. A budget is telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And the best way to do that is to use the Everydollar app.

Now, the everydollar app is the world's best budgeting app, and tens of millions of people are signing up for it. It is crazy how this has exploded, and we thank you for that. You can download the Everydollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play today. It's very easy to do. Or just go to everydollar.com if you want to do it for your desktop. But until you start telling your money what to do, you're not going to win with it. It's simple. I don't like being on a budget. Well, then you don't like telling yourself what to do. What in the world is that? That's weird. So tell yourself what to do. Tell yourself, self, this is what I need to do. And if self will behave, then self can get what self wants. It's not hard. This is how the deal works. All right. In the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage is Rachel from Vancouver. She has a question. Hi, Rachel. How are you? Hi.

Great, thank you.

Have you heard?

Have you had Canadians on your show before?

Oh, sure. They're not that rare.

Okay, awesome.

Yeah.

I wanted to ask this question today. It's an honor to be on your show. So all of my mom's relatives and my extended family live in poverty in the Philippines. We care and we have empathy about their circumstances. Some expect help and some don't. But it's hard to discern how much to be helping them. And I wanted to ask, what would that look like? How could I help them?

The principle that we use with the Ramsey family Foundation, if we're going to help someone with money, whether it's an individual or whether it's a situation, if you are not helping them take the steps to sustainability. Okay. Then you're just throwing good money after bad. Yeah. And so if I. In other words, if I sent one of your relatives $5,000 and it doesn't change their anything, it's just like that. Money runs out and they're right back where they were. Then we wasted the $5,000, and it wasn't really helpful.

Exactly.

It felt warm and fuzzy at the moment, but it wasn't really helpful. And so what can I do that would help them get the. Get a rung or two up the ladder as they climb out of poverty? What could we do with that now that I'd get really interested in helping someone I loved. Okay. And so, for instance, in a couple of cases, we have bought a piece of real estate, and it wasn't in the Philippines, it was somewhere else. It was in the. In the far east, but it was a rice plantation and gave it to these people, and now they are the owners of a farm and a piece of real estate, and the. And they're excellent at growing rice in that particular area. And that's an example of. Okay, so you put, I don't know, $20,000, $50,000 into that. Now they've got something that for the next decade they can use to double, triple, quadruple their income.

Yeah.

And so we gave them a tool to lift themselves out that, because it's sustainable. But if I just given them $50,000 cash, it would. Or 10,000 or $20,000 cash, it would have just evaporated.

Yeah, that's right.

And so what can I do like that? How can I help them start a business? How can I help them get an educational certification of some kind, go to school? How can I help someone that. That causes their income to come up and their perception of themselves and their future to come up and stay up? That's. Then I get all excited about doing that. That's my best obligation. But just to throw money over the fence and feel good, it generally doesn't work.

Yeah, of course. And my sister and I grew up with our mom growing broke sometimes because she was raising us as a single mom, but then also trying to help her family. And so she was just survival.

She was caught, and she was caught in that cycle. Yeah. And. And if you look back now, is what I'm saying true? I mean, do you look back at the money that she sent over there? Did it change anything?

No.

So, so all of her. All of her sacrifice.

Yeah.

Because it just. She was just throwing money over the fence. Maybe I don't know. But, I mean, that. That's how I measure it is I don't mind being generous, but I don't want to be randomly generous. I want to be intentionally generous and helpful.

Yeah.

Because otherwise, I'm just contributing to the problem.

Yeah, definitely. Which is why I, like, wanted to raise the question. I haven't seen a video on it yet, but I would have loved to discuss it with you and.

Yeah, that's great.

What's the source of the problem?

Just the economic situation that they're in. The whole economy. It's not a. I mean, the average household income in the Philippines is. What do you know?

I don't know.

It's fairly low.

It's fairly low. And, yeah, most of them haven't. I mean, she escaped for, which was great. She gave us a great life.

But, yeah.

Just with what their day to day looks like, we've compared. And, I mean, $20, to me is, like, a long way for them, so.

Yeah.

It's just something that I wanted to do differently than how my mom did it.

Yeah. So I want to be helpful, not just feel obligated.

Yeah.

And so I don't. I don't. You know, and I. And I think you can be both. Yeah. I mean, I think you can do the right thing and honor. Honor the family in that regard, but. But not do it in a way that.

That enables them.

I don't think we're. In your mom's case. I don't think it was enabling because they weren't misbehaving. You know, they're just in poverty. That's not a misbehavior. This. It's just a situation. And so. But. But it is still. The money still didn't move the needle.

Yeah.

You know, it didn't fix it. You know, so what I want to fix it. I want to be a solution. You know, with these dollars, there's not enough coming in. Right. Yeah.

So today's point, when you give money like that, it'll. It may keep them afloat for a while, but it's still the burn rate still there. If I were you and, you know, that culture and, you know, you've got people on the ground, I'd be figuring out how people do get out. What are the pathways on the ground in the Philippines to get out. I would do research. Now I know absolutely nothing. So it's kind of a fun scenario, I would say, okay. For people to escape poverty in the Philippines, what are the above board paths? What are they? And then today's point. Based on what I could do, I would try to help fund a pathway, a ladder, if you will, to where it's self sustaining. Yeah, that's the, that's the idea. I do some research.

You got a good heart. Thank you for asking your question. Thanks for joining us.

It's a tough one, too, Dave.

Absolutely. Zachary is with us. Zachary's in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Zachary. How are you?

I'm doing great, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah. So I have a question about 529 accounts for my daughter's college fund. My question is, what happens to that money if my daughter decides that college isn't right for her or something like she up getting a full ride? Are there penalties on that money if I want to pull it out and use it for something else? Are there other qualified expenses? You know, stuff like that?

Okay. If she gets scholarships, you're allowed to pull out of the 529, the cash equivalent of the scholarship. So if the school's $40,000 a year and she gets a free ride because she's valedictorian or whatever, or volleyball scholarship or whatever it is, I don't care, and she gets a full ride, then you can pull $40,000 out with no penalty at all, whatever the equivalent of the scholarship is, you can pull that out. Okay. Number two, you can transfer the money to anyone in your family, not just, you could transfer it to, if your wife wanted to go back to school, do some graduate work. You can use it for that. If you want to take a class, anybody, you got another. If your child, daughter has other siblings, you got other children anywhere up and down like that? You can do that. Number three, if you leave it alone for a long time, I don't recommend this. She can actually roll it into a Roth IRA, up to about $30,000 worth. Number and then the last answer is yes, there'll be penalties on the growth. And so if you have put in $30,000 and it's grown to hundred thousand, then you would have penalties only on the 70,000.

So you won't have penalties except on the growth. And so you won't get to keep all of the growth. You'll have taxes and some penalties on it if you just straight up cash it out. But there, but that, you know, so I wouldn't over fund a 529, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't abandon the idea of a 529 just because of those issues. I would certainly have a kids college fund in today's world. This is the Ramsey show, our scripture today. Matthew 713 14. Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide, and the way is easy. That leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow, and the way is hard. That leads to life, and those who find it are few. Theodore Roosevelt said, in any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing. Oh, there we go. When in doubt, do something with vigor. Right? Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

What was the Patton quote? I used to use it all the time. A mediocre plan executed with great enthusiasm is better than a plan never executed at all.

Exactly right. Like, we're talking directly to Congress right now.

Consistently talking to Congress right now never does any good. April is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, April. How are you?

Hey, mister Ramsey, how are you doing?

Having trouble hearing you, darling. Can you speak directly into your phone?

Can you hear me now?

Nope. We'll put you on hold to see if we can get a good connection that's usable. Open phones here at triple 8825-5225 you guys jump in, and we'll talk with you. So, Ken, the. The thing I have learned, you know, back to that Theodore Roosevelt quote, in any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing. The thing I figured out in decision making, that in the financial world, is that people who get paralysis of the analysis never invest, and you're better off to just get started investing. So, an example of that is, as we studied, the. Did the largest study a millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them. We found that they weren't particular. They were not in the top 1% or even 5% of high quality investors. In other words, they weren't super knowledgeable, super sophisticated. They weren't any of those things. Okay? Instead, the mutual funds that they had picked out were. They were above average, but they weren't, like, the best mutual funds on the planet. They weren't the highest performing. They hadn't studied every nuance of the mutual fund and picked out the top fund of every category.

They just picked out good, above average funds and put money in them. Yeah, all the time.

Consistence, consistency.

All the time. No, the point is, do something. It's so much better than sitting around having a freaking theory.

It's absolutely right. There's also a leadership application, too. When leaders have tough decisions that have to be made, weak leaders do nothing at all. They just sit there and they stew. And they look for polls or what's the cranky people in the office going to say if I do this, as opposed to taking the best information you have at the time and making the best decision that you can, is it ultimately going to be the right decision? You don't know. That's leadership. And so this applies in so many areas. It's just, you've got to do something. Just show up and lead, so, you know, do something.

Open phones at triple 8825-5225 April is in Charlotte. Let's try it again. April, see if he cleared up. How you doing?

Hey, mister Ramsey, can you hear me now?

Just barely. You cut out half the call. How can we help?

I recently had a house fire about a month ago. We're no longer able to live in the home. And since then, kind of made the decision that me and my husband need to separate. And so my sister had said that she would help me to put a down payment on a house by borrowing escrow on my mom's house that she owns with the GoFundMe that was set up, and money that I've had donated and what I've been putting back, I've managed to get about $8,000 in the past month put back. And so my worry is that if she borrows escrow on my mom's house and something was to happen to me, she'd be in a big financial burden, which I don't want to do to her, and I don't want to get myself in over my head. So, I have found two rental properties that I'm considering with me and my daughter. One is $900 a month for a two bedroom, two bath mobile home in a mobile home park on a well. The other one is $1,600 a month, and it's a three bedroom, two bath home with city water. The hiccup is the one that's 900 is 40 minutes away from her school and most of my employment.

And the other one is two minutes away from her school and closer to my employment.

What do you mean?

I am a mobile. I make about $4,000 a month. I am a mobile dog groomer. I've had my own business for eleven years.

Okay.

So I'm kind of.

April, you've had a lot of trauma.

Yeah.

A lot of things happen to you. I mean, if you've got a marriage that's going sideways and you had a house fire, those are two very, very traumatic things. It's very difficult to make decisions in the middle of all that. Okay, so I'm sorry. So you're hustling around trying to find a place to land, and that all makes sense. The great news is, in Charlotte, North Carolina, there's more than two properties for rent.

Well, we're not really in Charlotte. That's the quote. He has to close the city. We're in a little town called Rockwell. So there's not. There's not a whole lot, but there's more than two.

There's more than two? There's more than two. You need to find another one because neither one of these work. One's too expensive and the other one's weird and outside of the realm of reasonableness, and you've already talked yourself out of it. Okay? So. And you definitely don't need to be buying a house in the middle of all this trauma. You're going to make a really bad decision there. So please go find you something to rent that's close to work and that you can afford. That simple. And maybe it's a two bedroom apartment instead of a three bedroom house or a two bedroom trailer 40 minutes away on well water. Nothing wrong with well water, by the way, but thinking, like, I'm not having.

To have a water payment if I.

Want to wear that. Be nice. That'd be nice. But that's not. That's not. You got problems a lot bigger than a water payment, kiddo. So.

Yes, sir.

You know, you can handle a water payment if you get a $1100 hot property to rent, which you can actually afford, that's close enough to work, close enough to her school. Okay. And you're gonna be okay then, but. But anytime. We were just talking about decisions before we picked up with you, and anytime. The only options I have, and you've given me three of them, and they're all bad options. All that means is I don't have enough options yet. I need more. I need more things to consider. Buying is a bad idea. With all the stuff you've been through, you've had a really hard time right now. It's a horrible time to be buying for you. Please don't buy. And living out of town. You've already decided. You already decided you weren't doing that, and you were trying to justify doing the one that's too expensive. And so you've already decided you weren't doing the trailer because you.

Another problem that I'm having is my husband advised me not to claim my income because most of my work is cash. So when I'm going to rent, they're not wanting to really rent to me because I don't have employment history. It was recommended to me to get reference letters from people that I work for and people that I make payments to showing that I can make the payments and that I work.

Do you have a. Do you have a business account for your business?

I do not.

Okay, so you're not even depositing this money. You're just walking around with cash in.

Your pocket because he's advised me not to claim it. And so I'm scared that the IR's is going to find out that I've got money that I can't prove where it come from.

This guy's a real peace like. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, you need to start. You need to start paying your taxes and you set up a business. You need to set up a business checking account. And in the meantime, though, you can sit down with someone and go, look, I've got these 16 clients. I do this on a cash basis. I'm a landlord. If someone sat down to me and said they were mobile dog groomer and they had 65 clients, I can do the math and know you can pay the bill, okay? And so. And that's not scaring me as a landlord. Now, if you got some little, you know, person that doesn't know, that doesn't have any power in some apartment complex or something, it might be harder. You can sit down and work your way through this, April. You got to find some more options. Don't justify or rationalize in the middle all this pain into bad decisions. It's a bad idea. Slow down. You can do this. You can do this. And, hey, I'm sorry we picked you up a minute ago and couldn't get through. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christian Jesus.

Doctor John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships. It's all just part of life. But they don't have to define you. The Doctor John Deloney show is here to help. It's a caller driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.