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I like an Englishman to look like an Englishman and beards are foreign and breed vermin. Also, depend upon it, they will lead to filthy habits. That was Lord Raglan, who was in command of the British forces in the Crimea War. Famous, wasn't he, Dominic? He'd fought in the Napoleonic Wars. Even though the French were allies in the Crimea War, he kept shouting, Attack the French.

Yes, which he did.

Now, the question is, did he actually say this, or is it completely made up by George McDonald Fraser and inserted in flashman at the charge? Flashman, the bully from Tom Brown's School Days, whose memoirs are the subject of George McDonald Fraser's brilliantly entertaining novels.

That's a good question, Tom. Hello, everybody. I think even if it is made up, I'm sure he thought it. That quotation was actually recommended by Sam Brett Jr. Who's just been reading flashman at the Charge. When he heard we were doing a podcast about beards, he said, Lord Raglin had some very sound views about beards. You should mention them in the episode. And so here we are. And so here we are, yes. This was meant to be the second half of a single quirky one-off. Yes. Not the bit's dead. Yeah.

Draws on to the crack of doom.

So this is the story, Tom, of modern beards. Last time we had classical ancient beards, early medieval beards.

Do we have some high medieval beards? We do. Before we move to early modern beards.

We do. Actually, I have to say, we've had to record this multiple times. And in fact, I was laughing so much that I destroyed my microphone. So in the last episode, you were making the point about shaving and godliness. Basically, a clean face means you're the Priestley cast, I guess. You're closer to the supernatural, to the divine, right? And a full beard means you're very much of this world. Smiting order of man. So the question in my mind was, why don't more people shave? If it's a godly look, why don't people want to look in a highly religious age? Why don't people want to look clean-shaven? And there are obvious technical reasons which you didn't really talk about so much last time. So if you'd wanted to shave, what are you shaving with? So the lasers that people use, which could be made of, I don't know, bronze, I guess, copper. They are like little knives or indeed, miniature axes that people use. By and large, you'd have to either you have a slave or a servant who shaves you, or you have to visit a barber, as you said. So in medieval England, if you visit a barber, a barber is also a surgeon or a dentist.

So like in Roman times. Just like in Roman times. Exactly. There's massive continuity there. Barbering is a very serious business. The Worshipful Company of Barbers was set up in London in 1308. This would astound you, Tom. Guess what the guy who's the first head of the organization was called, what his surname was?

Well, I know because you've written it down, Richard Le Barber.

Richard Le Barber, yeah.

Was that nominative determinism or did he take on that name after deciding to become a barber?

I suspect He took on that name, which is disappointing. He'd like to think he'd been born Barber.

Unless his father, it was in the family.

Possibly it was in the family. You'd think it would be the thing that would be in the family, wouldn't you? So it got its Royal Charter from the fourth in 1462. And part of that was actually a crackdown on unlicensed barbers who are cutting people's hair in an incompetent way, giving them-Slicing their throat. Yeah, giving them very deep cuts while they're shaving. And it actually is a serious business because as we will see in an age before antibiotics, a barbering mishap can kill you, and it does kill people.

Or if you run into barbers whose wives make pies out of you. I mean, that would also be bad, wouldn't it?

In Seville, for example.

No, in Fleet Street.

Seville is odd. Of course. I was being dim with it.

So there are risks everywhere.

Yes. There are also the All the medical arguments. And the medical arguments, by and large, are very much in favor of beards. So as we talked about last time, since the Greeks, people had believed that beards were vital. They were connected to the production of semen, and both of these things reflected the vital heat of a man. So there's a wonderful book. Are you familiar with this book, Tom? Facial hair and the performance of early modern masculinity?

No, but I can imagine exactly what it's like. Yes.

By Dr. Eleanor Rycroft. She says, Facial hair functioned as evidence of the male capacity to produce semen. Because puberty would produce the necessary testicular heat for a boy to become a man, and also for smoke to rise in the body and push hair out through your face. So the smoke pushes the heat makes the hair come out of your face when you're 13.

She compares it to menstruation in a girl.

Exactly so. And it does sound a bit mad to us, but the very, very tip top medical authorities of the day believe this. So are you familiar with Hildegard of Bingen?

Of course. Yes. One of the great figures of medieval female Holiness. There you go.

She was in the Rheinland in the 12th century. She's a composer. She is the top German to go to about natural history. If you like natural history and you like Germans, you're laughing. She says, A lot of this is about your breath. So a very fertile man has very hot breath.

But that's clearly true.

The moisture of your breath is so hot and so drenched in testosterone, effectively. Spittle. Yeah. Yes. That the area around your mouth will be very moist and a beard can grow more freely there.

Fair to point out that she is an abbes.

Yeah, she's not an authority.

To be honest, she's woman-splaining.

That's what she's doing. She is indeed. She is indeed. And we never approve of that on this podcast. Actually, thinking about in the Middle Ages, more generally, fashion is obviously set by the most powerful. And as in martial periods in the Roman Empire, that we talked about last time. So the crisis periods when there's all the action on the frontiers, you got all these Balkan strong men with their beards. In late medieval Europe, powerful men have beards by and large. So Edward III, we talked about, great hero of the podcast. He has a beard, Henry IV, who we gave high marks to in England. He also has a beard. Henry V.

Henry V.

Well, Henry V is the outlier.

But you remember, he's compared to a priest, isn't he? Yes. By French ambassadors.

And I'm thinking, presumably this is a reflection.

His religiosity.

Yeah, if his religiosity.

Yes, it must be.

And then if you look abroad in the following century, Charles IV, the great monarch of the age, Philip II of Spain, famously beared. Now, Some of this might be, I don't want to offend our former guest, Edward Hapsberg, but this might be the Hapsberg jaw issue that they want to conceal their enormous jaws.

But wouldn't a beard merely accentuate it?

I'm not sure that it would. I think if you're self I don't suspect your jaw.

Jimmy Hill. I mean, Jimmy Hill wore a beard, didn't he? To cover up his enormous chin. But it just drew attention to it, I think.

No, because I'm not sure that's right. I think in the '80s, Jimmy Hill had a clean chin, and it was still very obvious.

Let's not get into that.

This is for the rest is football to discuss.

The rest is chins.

Anyway, as we enter the 16th century, we approach one of the golden ages of the beard. The historian Christopher Oldstone Moore, who specializes in the history of beards, he says, There are four great beard moments in history, Tom. The second century AD, that's Hadrian, I'm guessing.

That's Hadrian.

The high Middle Ages, Edward III, I guess, roughly. The Renaissance and the reign of Queen Victoria.

He doesn't include the Reformation.

Well, we'll get on to the Reformation.

The Reformation. I know you can often bundle the two up. I think the Reformation is massive for beards.

Well, I think the Reformation complicates things, as we will see. There's another historian. You see, I've really done some digging here. There's a historian called William who has written an article called The Renaissance Beard. He has studied hundreds of portraits across Tudor, the Tudor and Stuart period. He says, In these portraits, men with beards outnumber those without by 10 to 1.

Is that across both Catholic and Protestant Europe.

He's writing about England. But when I think about other portraits, I think England is more clean-shaven, actually, than elsewhere.

I disagree. I think beards come in with the Reformation. They're massive. No, I I mean, that's right. You think of all those clean-shaven figures, Wolsey or Thomas More or whatever. Then with the Reformation, you suddenly get a load of beards. I know this because I remember when I was writing about Dominion, reading about Edward VI, and he's a very sober and seriously little boy, except that when the Protestant ambassadors from Germany arrive, they have enormous beards, and he gets fits of giggles about it, and then expresses his disapproval of very long beards. But obviously, within a few years, beards are mainstreaming in Protestant England.

I'm not sure this is right. If you think 90% of people have beards and 10% don't, if you look at some of the big figures of this age across religious affiliations, so Thomas More, Thomas Cromwell, Thomas Cranmer, and then go into the 17th century, the single most best known person in the 17th century, Oliver Cromwell. These are people of different religious affiliations. They're all clean-shaven, which puts them in their minority. I think in each case, their clean-shavenness is about saying, I a sober, serious, hardworking, pious person.

I agree. I think Puritanism is, that takes a different course. But in the rush of the Edwardian Reformation, after Henry VIII is dead, and they can go full in Protestant, these are the people who would give the name Protestant to Protestantism, these German ambassadors, these princes. They come to London. They have these very, very long beards. And Edward VI responds with ribaldry. But then within a few years, It's absolutely the fashion. So Cranmer grows a beard. He does grow a beard. And they all start growing beards in Edward VI's reign.

But I think in the long run, clean shavenness becomes identified with radical Protestantism in the long run, across the course of the 16th century.

It does, yes. But it's radical Protestantism because everybody, by that point, is Protestant. So it's a way of... I mean, everyone has such long beards that actually shaving it off then becomes another marker of the Puritan.

It does indeed. Well, do you know what Puritans thought about beards? Puritans said basically a beard is like walking around with excrements on your face. They believed. They were very much into Hildegard of Bingen's heat theory. They said basically, your body heat is pushing hair out of your face like soot from a chimney. And it's like you're walking around with a sooty face. And effectively, it's a waste product. And you are walking around. Because of your frivoleity and your dandyism, you've smeared excrement all over your face, and you're walking around with it. That's what a Puritan thinks.

But I think that you have a clean, shaven, esthetic look in the early part of the 16th century. Then it's full on beards in the mid-16th century because this is an expression of Protestantism.

You're doubling down on this.

But then you have towards the end of the Elizabeth period, going into the Stuart period, it's a diminishment of beards because you have the Puritans who are worried about excrement on their face and all that. But if you think about the Drake Shakespeare beard, that's narrowing down. And then you have the Van Dyke beard, don't you?

But these things coexist. These things coexist. So by the Elizabeth era, different beards have different connotations. So if you're a soldier-Semiotics of beards. Semiotics of beards. So a soldier will have a spade beard, which I think is a ridiculous beard to have.

What does that mean? What's a spade beard?

It's square and cut off.

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Like Luther had. I guess. Did Luther have that? Yeah. You remember when he's a night, he's disguising himself as a night. Right.

And he grows spade beard.

He gets painted. Yeah.

So a quartier of a Van Dyke beard would very much be the beard of a quartier. And if that makes sense, because, of course, to maintain a Van Dyke beard-Yeah, it's difficult. Yeah, it's difficult. It's expensive. And then there was my favorite beard, which is the swallow tail, double-pronged.

You've put down that belongs to a character.

Yeah, I think a character. By having that beard, it's a bit like being somebody now and wearing a flat cap, riding a unicycle or something. It's identifying yourself as an eccentric. Now, you mentioned Shakespeare. Shakespeare is brilliant on beards. So most scholars say when you read Shakespeare's plays, it's very obvious that it is taken for granted that almost every single male character will have a beard. There's a very famous exchange in Much Adieu About Nothing. Beatrice is talking about... She's just being difficult about husbands and how it's saying she'll never marry. And she's talking to Leonardo and she says, I could not endure a husband with a beard on his face. I'd rather lie in the woolen. And Leonardo says as a joke, You may light on a husband that hath no beard. Beatrice, what should I do with him? Dress him in my apparel and make him my waiting gentlewoman? He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man. And he that is more than a youth is not for me, and he that is less than a man, I am not for him.

The assumption is, to be a man means to have a beard.

But the joke is that she will be being played by a beardless boy.

Of course, yes. Exactly. So the beardless boy, of course, in Shakespeare and Jacobian drama, generally, that phrase recurs. To be a beardless boy is to be the object of mockery. And then to beard somebody, you know how you're bearding somebody in their den, is to pull or pluck their beard. So Hamlet, we know Hamlet had a beard because he explicitly says at one point, Am I a coward? Who calls me villain? Breaks my paint across, plucks off my beard and blows it in my face. And that's more than just a figure of speech.

The really awful example of that, of someone having his beard pulled is Gloster, isn't it?

Yes, of course.

In King Lea, when Regan pulls on his beard and he cries out by the kind gods, 'tis most ignobly done' to 'Pluck me by the beard. That's right. But of course, that's not the worst thing that's going to be plucked because his eyes are going to be plucked out.

Shakespeare does also give us bearded women who are often overlooked. So the witches in Macbeth, Banquo says to them, You should be women, and yet your beards forbid me to interpret that you are so. In other words, the fact that they have beards proves that the world has turned upside down, something weird and supernatural.

Macbeth has obviously not been reading Pliny, who was obsessed by women with beards. He had a whole chapter on them. Really?

As in bearded women who would appear in PT Barnum's Circus?

No. Well,. There's one, this woman from Argos, who is in bed with her husband, and he goes to sleep, and it's all great. Then they wake up and she's growing a beard and a penis.

Wow, that's a shock.

He's surprised. That's fair.

That's happened overnight. Sure he hasn't just been to bed with a man.

No, they've been married for years. It's not like that story that we had the bloke in...

Wasn't it one of Custer's men or something who had accidentally married. Oh, yes.

Yes, the washer woman.

He tried to bury the washer woman very quickly after she died. Isn't that it?

No, these are miraculous transformations. Women suddenly sprouting beards unexpectedly, and it seems to be quite a thing. I mean, Pliny is very into it.

So to return to the 17th century. Clearly, the 17th century ends with beards in very much in decline. So looking into it, historians are really interested in this because actually there's very little source material on it. Peeps doesn't write in his diary, I see beards are on the way out.

I did this Saturday, shave off my beard to the barbers.

Obviously, the evidence we're using is portraits and things. And obviously, this is the age of the scientific revolution and the coming of the enlightenment. To quote Eleanor Rycroft again, she says, By the 18th century, men were almost entirely clean-shaven. Here it was the lack of facial hair that defined the ideal man. The face of the enlightened gentleman was smooth, his face youthful, and his countenance clear, suggesting a mind that was also open. And there's somebody who's done some work, another tremendous book called Concerning Beards by the historian, Alan Withy, and he delves into this. And he says, The 18th century, the Georgian period is an age of urbanity, civility. England is a polite and commercial people, self-consciously sophisticated. Artifice is very popular, it's very in. Hence the wig, wearing artificial hair.

So like ancient Egypt. Right.

But facial hair is opposite of that. It is seen as rough and earthy and primitive. It's the look of the laborer.

It's not polite. It's not polite.

It's not Metropolitan. He's brilliant, actually, Alan Withy, on barbershops. He says, The new barbershops of the 18th century. They are part of this new public space. So you would go to be shaved, and you would go maybe twice a week. It's like a coffee house. There would be newspapers, and you would exchange gossip, and obviously the regardations of barbershops. The barbershops in St. James's on Piccadilly or Bath are very different from the ones in the back streets of Wolverhampton or whatever.

I entirely get that. But you remember the episode we did on the suit? Yeah. This is the period where it's an ostentatious expenditure. Yes. I wonder whether simply removing the beard, it suits a sober age as well, because then you can't do things with your facial hair. You can't have varieties of mustache.

You It can't be like the dandyism of the ragoo classes. There is something sober about it. Sober. Absolutely there is. He also points out that this is an age of a shaving revolution, Tom. Is it? The shaving revolution.

Oh, well, of course, Sheffield Steel.

Sheffield Steel. So now for the first time, you have men shaving themselves in private. Now, this had not really happened before. So in the 18th century, there are steel raises made in Sheffield. They would have wooden or ivory handles. And from Sheffield, they are exported to Europe and to the American columners. And they go hand in hand with new soaps made of tallow, shaving brushes made from badger hair or boar hair. Actually, I made a quip a couple of minutes ago about barbershops in St. James's or Piccadilly. If you go there now, there are these long established men's shaving shops. Trumpers. Yeah, exactly. Trumpers or whatever they're called. Harris, these places. They are effectively selling 18th century shaving equipment, slightly updated, the badger hair brush. Or all of that thing.

Which you always get in Westerns, don't you? Yeah. So it's an absolute trope. You do, actually. The guy who's been out in the West or he's been in jail or something, then he comes out and gets the lather, the soap lathered onto his face and scrapes it off and he's as good as new.

It's interesting. There are the first shaving manuals in the 18th century. So the most famous one is one by a Frenchman, Jean-Jacques Perrette, and it's called Pogonotomy, or the Art of Shaving Oneself. But I had a look at it. I found a PDF online. So if When you read a shaving website now, the emphasis is all about how to get the closest possible shave, the perfect shave. The emphasis in the 18th century is not. It's basically how not to kill yourself. So how to not cut yourself. And the reason, of course, is that we said that we would get into this. Thoreau, the American transcendentalist writer, his brother, John, died in 1841 from lock jaw, not long after cutting himself.

Because he was holding his mouth open. Why would you get lock jaw from him? I don't know.

Infected in some peculiar American way. I don't understand Anyway, he wrote On Walden Pond or whatever it's called.

I've never read it. He's thinking about transcendental. Yeah, it's transcendental.

It was like, think about nature. The Americans love this business. Anyway, he did this because his brother had killed himself shaving. Lord Knavan, much more tragically.

He nicked the mosquito bite.

Yes. Bitten by a mosquito, nicks its shaving, gets sepsis, and he might just pull through from the sepsis when he gets pneumonia, and the combination of the two kills him.

And it said that the mosquito bite was in exactly the same spot as a mosquito bite on the face of Tutankhamun.

Well, there's a definite link there, isn't it?

This is promoted by the Daily Mail.

Oh, it's undoubtedly true.

Cursewell Employer. Just on the topic of 18th century shaving and the excitement of, for the first time in history, you can shave yourself. I'm reminded of one of my favorite passages in Boswell's Life of Johnson, which I had not fully appreciated until this moment, thanks to you, where Johnson is talking about how there is no man who shaves himself in the same way. That every man has his own technique, his own method. He might Start at a certain angle, start at a certain place. I'd always thought of that whenever I shave, I always remember that. But it has a whole new resonance if you are the first generation of people who are actually doing that.

There's no pattern, right? There's no rule. Tom, when you're shaving, do you think to yourself, how does William Dalrymple shave? How does Alister Campbell shave? How does the other goalhanger podcast presenters shave? Is that what's going through your mind?

No, I always think, how would Dr. Johnson shave?

Chaotically, I think. In a hapazard...

That's how he'd shave.

He would be a poorly shaved man. No question.

Yes. His wig would be a skew, and he'd have loads of little clusters over his face where he'd nicked himself.

Before we get to the break, one more 18th century thing. But we've gone outside Western Europe, so This is a stunning rebuke to everybody who says-Who says we're Eurocentric. We're going about 20 miles outside Western Europe.

We tweak the beard, those who say that.

We're in Russia under Peter the Great. Peter the Great, born in 1672, in a society where beards are. They're not just the norm, they're dare I say, sacral.

Well, because they're Orthodox. Yes. And so those beards come in a line of descent from the original church.

Yes. Robert K. Massey, in his biography of Peter the Great, says the beard was the monument given by God, worn by the prophets, the prophets, and Jesus himself. Ivan the Terrible had a tremendous beard. He said, To shave the beard is a sin that the blood of all the martyrs cannot cleanse. It is to deface the image of a man created by God. Lots of patriarchs back that up, and they would say, A man without a beard can't be blessed. A man without a beard is spitting in the face of God.

I'm reading in your notes this idiot, Patriarch Adrian, in the late 17th century, who said, God did not create men beardless, only cats and dogs. He's obviously never met a bearded collie. No. It's the first dog we had.

Really? Well, like a schnauzer. A schnauzer has a beard.

Yeah, but it's not called a bearded schnauzer. No, it's not. Bearded. Colley is obviously bearded. And I can vouch that Ben had a massive beard.

Patriarch Adrian.

I mean, he's absolutely idiot.

He knew nothing.

He knew nothing as dark. What he's talking about.

Anyway, Clean shaving has seeped into Russia by the time of Peter the Great's birth because there's this place in Moscow called the German suburb. And patriarchs and Orthodox priests would say, terrible scenes in the German suburb. People are talking German, they're eating salads, they're taking stuff, and they're shaving their faces. And this is abhorrent. And all right-thinking Russians say this is absolutely disgraceful behavior. Anyway, as you will know, Tom, Peter the Great goes off on his great European tour, doesn't he? Amsterdam, John Eveland house, Depford, you it. And he comes back in 1698. And one of the very first things he does, I mean, within hours of returning to Moscow, he calls in his boyars, his nobles, and he physically shaves them himself. So he grabs their faces and roughly shaves them one by one. And they're all quite shocked by this. But this is how he means to go on. Then he starts to have visitors for dinner, and he gets his jester to forcibly shave them. And then eventually, he says, Listen, I'm I'm not messing around here. If you want to have a beard, you have to pay a tax. And people would have to pay this tax.

It was a graduated tax based on how much money you had. Once you paid it, you were given a medallion with a picture of a beard on it and the words tax paid. And if you were walking around with a beard without this medallion, you were having an illegal beard.

Something for Rachel Reeve's to ponder, perhaps. Fill in that fiscal black hole. Can I just ask, is this because he is keen to European to Westernize his people? Exactly.

He wants to break the power of the conservative Orthodox authorities. He also insists, of course, that people dress in a European way, in a Western way. He's all about Westernization. And a lot of Russians are very shocked. So although Peter the Great is an autocrat, an enlightened despot, an absolute monarch, so there's no arguing with him, a lot of people think, If I die beardless, I'm going to be in terrible trouble. And there's a wonderful quote in the Robert K. Massey book, An English traveler was talking to this guy who was like a shipwright or something who had no beard. He said, Oh, you got no beard. You've obviously signed up to Peter, the great thing. And he said, I do have a beard, actually. He reached into his pocket and he got out this pouch or something. And he said, I never go out without it because I could die and I will need it. I will need to have it on me to show them that I've still got my beard.

It would be useful to sky, wouldn't it?

It would be, but would you have to take glue as well with you? Because your beard would have lost its integrity time. I suppose. You couldn't just reattach it. Yes. We'll be getting on to beards that you can attach when we talk about the beetles in the second half of this.

Great. Well, listen, let's take a break here. And when we come back, we'll be looking at the Crimean War, Darwin's beard, that thing, big Victorian Beards, and we'll be looking at the Beatles and hippies and hipsters. So much to look forward to. Hello, welcome back to The Rest is History. And We're looking at the history of the beard. And Dominic, we left part one looking at beards in the age of Peter the Great. And we're going to leap forward, but remain in Russia. Or more specifically in the Crimea, where Britain and France go to war with Russia. And this is a seismic event, isn't it, in the history of the beard?

It's absolutely massive. So at this point, mid-19th century, there is a change within Russia itself. So Peter the Great had wanted everyone to be clean-shaved. But by the mid-19th century, people are wearing beards. And of course, the last Russian Tsars have beards. So Alexander III and Nicholas II both have beards. Now, this is often seen as a reflection of their Slavophile tendencies. In other words, they are casting off the legacy of Peter the Great, and they're saying, No, we're not Westernized. We are Russians. We are Russians, we are Slards, we have a unique soul, and we have our tremendous beards. But actually, they are also reflecting Western fashion. And that Western fashion has changed because of events in Russia, ironically, because of the Crimean War. Because as you said, from 1853 to 1856, the British and the French are fighting the Russians in the Crimea. This is a horrendous conflict. It's the first modern war, really. It's got shells, it's got railways, telegraph, photographs, all of that stuff. Now, at the beginning, So Lord Raglan, we had that lovely quote from him of dubious provenance, Beards are foreign and breed vermin. But whether or not British troops wanted to grow beards, they have to grow them because they are in the field for months in horrendous conditions.

They have no soap. It is so cold that the water is frozen so they couldn't really shave or wash, even if they wanted to. And as a result, of course, they're being photographed. And those photographs come back home and the beards come to be seen as badges of military status, of manliness and prestige.

And so is that what inspires the great Victorian beard?

That's what historians, Alan Withy talks about this.

So Darwin?

Yeah.

Tennison?

I think you could argue, I suppose, You would have to do a study of portraits from the 1850s, the previous decade, to see if beards were coming back, which I imagine they almost certainly were beforehand. But I guess this accelerates, amplifies the process.

I'm not just saying this because he's a cricketer, but W. G. Grace is massive in this, isn't he? Because to explain for people who he is, he is the first mass appeal sportsman who's, first of all, he's drawn and then he's photographed. His beard is the icon of his pro-est as a sportsman. Yes. And so beards then come to be associated with the virility of someone who's an elite sportsman.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think we think of Victorian beards as backward. But of course, if you're looking forwards from the late 1850s onwards. The beard is modern. The beard is a rejection of the previous period of clean-shavenness. And the beard is seen as, what is it? I guess it's patriarchal. It's individualistic.

It's individualistic and it's cutting edge because the other thing about W. G. Grace is that he is the first real celebrity who lends his name and his image to advertisers. So he advertised Coleman Mustard. And the fact that he is instantly recognizable because he has this incredibly distinct of beard is obviously crucial part of that because it's very, very easy to reproduce.

I think consumerism, advertising, and photography are really important in the growth of the beard. So there's a good American example. It's not quite a beard, but it's similar. There's a guy in the American Civil War So we're talking about a decade later, called Major General Ambrose Burnside, a Union general. And Burnside, if you Google him, you will see he has the most extraordinary whiskers. So it's side burns that then turn into a mustache and meet in the middle. It's Burnside who gave his name to those sideburns. The sideburn was named after him. And of course, that's because images of him are being spread across the United States in a way that they weren't. They wouldn't have been 10 or 20 years earlier because of the development of photography and so on. So the beard has become very fashionable. It's seen as incarnating the new martial values of the 1850s, 1860s. But people are also And, of course, looking for other justifications because this is also a heyday of medicine and science. You mentioned Darwin. So Darwin probably thinks, I mean, I've never read Darwin about his own beard, but I imagine he would have thought a beard was healthy.

Otherwise, he wouldn't have had one.

Well, we talked about him at the start of the first show. He's unclear what the evolutionary purpose of beards is. But essentially, he thinks that they are advertisements of virility that appeal to women and therefore, natural selection chooses men who can grow beards.

Yeah. Actually, if you look at scientific textbooks and tracks and things from this period. So Alexander Roland, the human hair, popularly and physiologically considered. He writes in that, I do most strenuously contend that the beard is a positive good. It affords naturally what we are forced to supply artificially, i. E. Warmth and protection to the throat. And then the St. James's magazine from 1861, so that's right in the point between the Crimean War and the American Civil War. A long beard contributes greatly to health. It preserves the teeth a long time from rotting and strengthens the gums. So this is apparently based on a 16th century physician called Valyrianus. I don't believe a beard does strengthen your gums?

If there are any specialists in gums, let us know. Dominic, just on that topic, this is almost taking us back to ancient Greece, isn't it? A beard is medically something that a man should have. And that was an age where a very strong sense of the separation of the rival spheres of men and women. Do you think, because paralleling the growth of the Victorian beard is a emphasis on the domestic role of women, the angel in the house. Do you think that's part of it? I do.

And lots of gender And lots of gender historians think it is. Lots of gender historians say that at points when women's roles are changing, expanding, when women are maybe threatening men in various ways, men will feel the need to assert their masculinity in more visible and conspicuous ways.

Interesting.

Generally by facial hair, that that would be a good explanation. But the thing about the medical stuff is that once you've thrown your lot in with doctors and scientists, of course, when they change your mind-They can come up with any old nonsense.

Right, exactly.

Once they've changed their minds, you're in real trouble. So by the end of the 19th century, the turn of the 20th, the consensus has changed. People think beards might not be very hygienic. Christopher Oldston, more on his stuff about beards. He says, The discoveries of Louis Pasteur are crucial in this. So Pasteur, germ theory, microbes, all of that business. And people who were pastorites, whatever, would say, your beard is a breeding ground for disease. A French scientist causes caused a sensation in 1907. I mean, this is the most French experiment that's ever taken place. They did an experiment and he said, the lips, I quote, The lips of a woman kissed by a mustache-oed man were polluted with tuberculosis and diphtheria bacteria, as well as food particles and a hair from a spider's leg.

And what was the point of that?

So basically, this woman, they got men to kiss women.

Yeah.

Very French. Some men with mustaches, some men without. And the mustache showed men afterwards when they tested the women's lips, covered with filth, spiders, bits of French food.

They hadn't deliberately polluted this guy's mustache with spiders, makes of thing.

No, he was just French.

He just had it? Yeah. Okay. Oh, yes, I see.

So nobody wants that. No woman wants to be kissed and be left with all this detritus. That's spider's leg. No, not at all. But also, I think there's a cultural shift. So thinking about, obviously, we've talked about the Edwardian period a fair amount in our Road to the Great War series and so on. Well, first of all, it's an age when, socially, there is a turn towards greater corporate. Historians talk about this move to a corporate uniformity. More people working in offices, more clarks, more white collar than before. You want a uniform work course. And the idea of everybody turning up with that random long beard is anathema to the Edwardians. They want everyone sitting in rows looking the same. But at the same time, there's a great emphasis in the Edwardian period on youth and vigor and on looking dynamic. And of course, casting off the shackles of the previous generation. Actually, when you look at some of the characters we've talked about in various episodes, 1890s, 1900s, Oscar Wild, Herbert Asquith, The young Winston Churchill, they're all clean-shaven. Even more reactionary figures. So great pals of the rest is history like Kaiser Wilhelm II.

Good mustache, though.

Mustache, but not bearded. No. And I think the fact that Franz Ferdinand, of all people, is not bearded, tells its own story, Tom. It's most sensible people take their fashion cues from the Archduke. But there's also a technical explanation, which is shaving. So shaving has changed. So it's a guy called King Camp Gillette. And in 1895, he's sitting around in Chicago, I think it is, and he thinks, there must be a better way to shave than this. And he basically dreams up the idea of the disposable razor blade. And it took him the best part of a decade to start producing it, to work out what the design would be and whatnot. He does that in 1903, I think, and by the end of the 1900s, he's producing them in London and Paris. But then it's turbo-charged by the First World War. Because in the First World War, first of all, officers want their men to look the same, to have a uniformity. You can't have people with like, swallow tail, beards.

No, especially not the trenches, all that mud.

It's lice that is the thing. You want to basically eliminate anything where germs and lice will grow. So for example, when the US joined the war in 1917, troops were told, You must travel with the shaving kits that you provide yourself. Gillette made packs, especially for the trenches.

And was it the best a man can get?

I think it almost certainly was, Tom. I can't believe Gillette aren't sponsoring this, actually.

Well, they know where we are.

When the war is over, these are dark days for beards, actually. Because think about the interwar years. Nobody has a beard in the interwar years.

Lenin. Lenin. Lenin, Bandite beard.

And George IV. Ironically, two people-George Bernashore, is he still around?

He's got an amazing beard.

Yeah, but he's just a leftover from the previous- Yeah, he is. Walter Raleigh. Walter Raleigh is leftover. Even Stalin doesn't have a beard. To Stalin, who'd been raised in the seminary, he has a mustache. Hitler has a mustache. Unthinkable that either of those men would have a beard. Stanley Baldwin, no beard. Neville Chamberlain, no beard. Franklin Roosevelt, no beard. And actually- Trotsky. Trotsky, beard, but that ends up with a nice pick in his head. This is what happens.

I think communists are likely to have beards.

They are, and they give beards a bad name. So here's the interesting thing, that if you look the popular culture, let's just look at the British popular culture of the interwar years. Very quickly, beards are identified with freakishness.

Is that your synonym for people with left wing jeans? To give one of my favorite examples in the Just William stories of Wichman of Compton, which are a brilliant window into the mentality in middle England.

In William's Village, when somebody with a beard moves in next door, he's a League of Nations enthusiast or a vegetarian or something. When George Orwell Well, the 1930s is describing the weirdos who give socialism a bad name. That quote, That dreery tribe of high-minded women and sandal wearers and bearded fruit juice drinkers. And then in one of my favorite books, Lucky Jim, published in 1954, I think, or 1953, I can't remember which. Dixon, the hero, failed the historian. He aspires his love rival, who's called Bertrand, who is a terrible man. Bertrand is wearing a lemon yellow sports coat, all three buttons of which were fastened, which is very and displaying a large beard which came down further on one side than the other. Dixon guests straight away that this must be Bertrand, who has already been described to him as, a) a pacifist, be somebody who likes painting, and so therefore, automatically, just a terrible man.

We're no longer into notions of purity and royalty and all the stuff that we were looking at in ancient times and medieval times. We're not really even into health by now. It's It's about fashion.

But it has a political meaning, I think.

Of course, because all fashions do. But for men, what you do with your facial hair, it's something that you can change very, very easily. So you can experiment. I guess that on the level of nationwide fashions, if one generation has beards, then the obvious thing to do is to shave them off in the next generation. And so hostile attitudes to beards in the '50s, isn't that when- Yeah, '50s. Must be setting things up for the '60s, which is one of the great ages of the popular beard.

Well, it is and isn't, Tom, I would say, about the '60s and '80s.

Well, it's fashionable, isn't it? But of course, I know that Sandbrooke's people would not be wearing beards.

Is that the technical term?

Movies and shakers like John Lennon, they are.

Well, here's It's a very interesting thing. You have the development of youth culture, let's say the mid '50s onwards. And hair, for example, is always a huge part of that. And whether you have a crew cut or a Elvis-style haircut, or you You have a Beatles mop or hippie hair or whatever, punk, all of those kinds of things. And yet, actually, through the great majority of all these trends, there is an assumption you'll always be clean shaven. You might be stably because you haven't bothered to shave, but you won't be beared or really mustache. Now, there is a slight exception for that, which is the Beatles.

But more generally, the Summer of Love and Inter '68.

If you look at photos, the great majority of men are not beared.

Oh, are they not? That's interesting.

They're long haired, but they're not beared. I was having a look because I was thinking about exactly this thing. So the Beatles started flirting with mustaches and beards at the end of 1966, then the beginning of 1967, then they all really have them in, I think, May '67, when they publicly launch Sergeant Pepper. And to get a sense of how outlandish that is, if you just look at the World Cup final of 1966, you look at the England team, they've got very short hair and they're all clean-shaven. They're not even stubborn, they're all clean-shaven. And then you look at the crowd. There are virtually no beards. There are very few They're all clean-shaven.

And with the Beatles, is it the Mahrishis that changes it?

No, they've grown them before they've gone to Richikash. They go to Richikash a year later.

They haven't grown the beard by then, have they?

I think one or two of them may have grown beards by them or flirted with beards.

But then they go to Richa Kesh. Richa Kesh.

To Richa Kesh. And they all have huge beards. Now, there is an argument amongst '60s historians that people start to grow beards when they're also wearing lacy shirts and big coats, and they've got flowery scarves. And the beard is a way of getting away with all this.

Yes, you're masculizing.

Yeah, it's a reminder of your masculinity. There's also a sense, obviously, that having the beard is a deliberately ironic nod back to Victorian Empire. Pepper, which is why it matches Sergeant Pepper. And of course, you could only do that once the empire had gone. So maybe it's no coincidence it happens a few years after the empire is finally gone because people can start joking about it. Having the beard or the Lord Kitchener style mustache or whatever is a way of doing that.

I would associate the British Empire with mustaches rather than beards, I think.

That's maybe because you're thinking about later, don't you think?

Yeah. It's Lord Kitchener who has the archetypal mustache, but he doesn't have a beard.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Lord Kitchener is the archetypal mustache.

You see, I'm wondering whether it's an Indian thing. It's a yogi because George Harrison keeps his beard.

He does indeed.

Yes. Longer, I think, than the other three Beatles. And he's the one who's really into transundental meditation. Yeah.

And Paul is the one who has it least long, I think. He has it on his It's a good beard, but you know his heart's not in it. He's not a natural wearer of a beard, I think it's fair to say. The funny thing is that, I mentioned this earlier on, this is also the heyday of Mayor Lord beards mustaches. So Beatles and other pop music magazines would advertise facial hair that you could buy and stick onto your face. So they would literally advertise it for 19 shillings. So realistic, they're almost undetectable and could be used time and time again, says the advertising copy. You would have to send them, Tom, little cutting of your hair so they could match it for color. And then they would send you sideburns, a mustache or a beard in that shade. Nice. So we're thinking about for our next REST history tour. If we want to surprise people when we come on stage.

So what about hipsters? Is that fashion?

Yeah, I think that's pure fashion. I tried to find some statistics. It's really hard to find these statistics, but just looking at photographs, generally things. What's striking to me is that although the Beatles, you said the '60s golden age of the beard, there are very few beared people in the '60s and '70s. If you think about public figures. Yeah, you're right.

Facilating.

How many of them actually do have beards? I think beards, even in the '70s and the post-Beatles heyday, are still ultimately seen as a little bit eccentric, a little bit Bohemian.

George Best has a beard.

George Best has a beard, but that's part of George Best's decline, isn't it? That Best has become a bit dissipated, a bit eccentric. He puts himself above the team. He's spending all night with bottles of vodka and Miss World instead of thinking about tomorrow's match against Burnley.

Practicing free kicks and things. Exactly.

In political cartoons in the '70s, beards are still, I hate to say it, Tom, but they're the badge of the freak. So the only people that have beards-They're liberal, aren't they? Well, three kinds of people have beards in British political cartoons in the '70s. Members of the Liberal Party, members of the IRA, and school teachers.

Sometimes all three.

Yes, I guess so. Actually, who's got the most famous beard in Britain today, would you say? Prince Harry. I think Prince Harry, maybe. For me, it's Jeremy Corbin. Yeah. I mean, Jeremy Corbin, when he became leader of the Labor Party, people commented all the time about his beard. The Economist called it a countercultural badge of defiance against smooth-talking, smooth-face capitalists.

But you could say the same about Prince Harry. Yeah, you could.

So in 2017, there was a survey of newspaper comment pieces about Jeremy Corbin, and this survey found that 69% of them mentioned his beard. That's absolutely brilliant. Do you know what, Tom? I had a look myself. I've written six articles about Jeremy Corbin that explicitly mentioned his beard.

And what proportion is that?

I'm confident that I haven't overdone it, but I'd thrown it in a few times. It's generally, it's never meant kindly, to be honest.

So this wasn't a policy that was dictated to you by the Daily Mail's editorial board? I never. You must mention Jeremy Corbin's beard.

The very thought of that is so shocking to me. And if anybody's listening from that organization, they'll be shocked, because they all know that that's absolutely not how newspapers work, Tom. Right. Okay.

I just wondered whether there was an editorial policy.

Absolutely not. But we should end by talking about, we should give our own views about whether or not men should have a beard. So I drew up a list of three typical men without beards and three typical men with that might help you make up your mind, Tom. So Alexander the Great, no beard. Henry the fifth didn't have a beard. And Nelson didn't have a beard. But then men with beards, the affronment, Jeremy Corbin has a beard. Prince Harry now has a beard. And the Yorkshire Ripper had a beard. So does that focus your mind at all?

I mean, you could alternatively say that Kaligia didn't have a beard. Yeah, that's true. Hitler didn't have a beard.

He had a mustache. Come on.

Grant Shaps, who green-lipped the Stonehenge Tunnel. Paul Potts. He didn't have a beard. Paul Potts was clean-shaven. Paul Potts. So they're all monsters from history. And then people who do have... I mean, God has a beard.

Yeah.

Sir Francis Drake.

They're very similar. People have God and Sir Francis Drake.

The priestess of Athena who grew a beard whenever peril threatened. I don't want to come to any firm and false conclusions.

Well, actually, the person who really captures the complexity of this is Theo, our producer. Yes. Because we can never anticipate whether Theo will be beareded or not.

Well, he had a Persian beard, as we said, on Friday. Yeah. Recording this on a Monday, and it's completely gone.

Yeah, it's very unsettling, isn't it?

It is unsettling, yeah. It's very unsettling. You've never been tempted to grow a beard?

No. Because I think.

I tell you what I think you would look like if you had a beard. You would look like a rascally ships captain, possibly involved in slaving in the Viking era.

In the Viking era? Yeah. Brilliant. I'm well on for that. Monks and stuff.

You'd be trading in monks. You wouldn't look like a monk. You'd look like somebody who... You weren't a full-blown warrior, but you would take the loot that had been stolen by warriors from a monastery. You'd have a cackle, an evil cackle.

Yeah. Corrupt, I think.

You would be corrupt, and you'd probably be run through by the hero who would have been enslaved and would escape while you were trying to sell him.

Alexander Skarsgaard.

He would kill you. He would run you through. Yeah.

And what beard would you have? I think you would look like Roy Strong if you had a beard.

Worst things to be.

Do you not think you'd go for a pointed Van Dyke. I would go for it.

I probably would go for a Van Dyke. I'll try to go for Francis Drake, I think.

Walter Raleigh. I've got the beard more of a medieval blacksmith.

Yeah. Well, a ship's captain. Yeah.

Well, that's kind. This has been revelatory.

Top historical analysis. Very good. Yes.

So the good news is there's been a lot here about men. And I think, Tom, it's time that we had an episode about a woman, don't you? Yes.

In fact, two. Two women in succession. Let's just go for it. Absolutely. Actually, three. So we could do Lee Miller, the great American photographer in the Second World War. Brilliant. And then we could do Avita. Great. Ava Peron. Why not? That would be great. And then after that, perhaps we could do, I don't know, Boudica. Brilliant.

Let's do it. Let's do it. So if you want to hear those episodes early, you can so by joining the... I'm not going to say how early because I don't want to over-promise, but you'll hear them before other people do, generally.

But not Lee Miller, because Lee Miller might be coming on Thursday.

You join the restishistoryclub@therestishistory. Com. And to be honest, not only do you get episodes early, you don't get the ads, but also you get the very high quality repRT that we've been showcasing in this episode. Isn't that true, Tom? Yeah, you absolutely do. So lots more be a chat to come in bonus episodes, no doubt in the next few decades of the rest of history. And on that bombshell, Tom, I'm off for a shave. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Now, everybody, I have absolutely thrilling literary news. Our second official book, The Restis History Returns, is, I believe the only word is landing. It's landing this September. And you can journey journey in this book with us through an alphabetical miscellane, taking on some of history's most bizarre moments. And along the way, you will find the answers to a whole host of curious questions, including, which is the most outlandish theory about the murder of JFK? What would it have been like to live tweet the eruption of Vesuvius? And of course, which were the very greatest monkeys in history? Now, pre-order a signed copy of the Restice History Returns at Waterstones right now.