For me, coming from South Central, getting into cycling and being introduced to like all of these people from different backgrounds and professional industries, it opened my mind up to what was possible for me, getting more kids of color into the sport where they can just have that understanding and opening of perspective and like having their minds kind of like, you know, you are more than what the statistics say you are. You know, I grew up in a place where women have the best education system and we didn't have a like a lot of inspiration to be more than what you saw people being successful in the hood doing, which is like drug dealing or whatever or hustling or whatever.

So to get into this sport where there's doctors, there's lawyers, there's people that do things like that, you never even thought were jobs like film making a set design and all this other stuff. And to be able to have access to just those conversations is incredible and like completely changed, like what I wanted out of life, even just that putting that in front of some kids. And that could like be the difference between them and end up in jail or them ending up or the marketing career and working at a brand like specialized and like.

I think that's extremely important outside. Everybody is not going to be a bike racer. Everyone was not going to get it. But that doesn't mean that the industry of cycling isn't rich in opportunity. That's Justin Williams. And this is Episode five, 63 of the Patrol podcast. The Rich Roll podcast readings by Petel Bicycle Pedaling Humanoids, it is a rich roll. Welcome to the podcast. Before we get into it, a little housekeeping. First off, I wanted to announce that we recently created a brand new YouTube channel that's dedicated solely to short clips from the podcast.

So every single day we are now posting brief four to ten minute excerpts from both current and past guests. So if you're into that kind of thing, it's a pretty great way to get a visual taste for each guest and check it out. I'll put a link in the show notes or you can simply search Rich Role podcast clips on YouTube. Second, the holiday season is now officially upon us. And along with that comes this search that we all go on for unique and awesome gifts.

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He's a guy who walked away from the world tour early in his career to carve his own path and has matured into not only an 11 time national champion, but more importantly, the founder and manager of Legion of Los Angeles, which is this very cool cycling team here in L.A. that serves as a critical voice for inclusion and representation in a sport that I think it's fair to say is in dire need of reinvention and imagination. His name is Justin Williams.

He's super cool. His story is incredibly powerful. It's instructive. And it's all coming up in a couple of seconds. But first, a few words from the folks that make this conversation possible, starting with blankest, longtime listeners have probably inferred that learning is super important to me. I trust that since you selected this podcast, we're on the same page. But the truth is, outside of the very rigorous and time consuming amount of prep and research that I put into getting ready for each and every podcast guest, I personally find carving out extra time to glean new ideas, to be a little bit of a struggle.

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Out of seven hundred and forty three riders on the World tour, which is the highest tier of professional road cycling, only five riders are black. And out of the hundred and seventy six cyclists in the recent Tour de France, only one was black. One guy, Kevin Racer. That, to be frank, is bullshit. And it's an institutional paradigm in the cycling industry that Justin Williams is hell bent on breaking with 11 US national championships and 14 California state road and track championships to his name.

Cycling is truly in Justin's blood at a young age. He showed a rare aptitude as a sprinter, crushing kritz throughout the state as a teenager and eventually becoming the junior track national champion and a member of the national team. In 2009, he joined track Livestrong You 23 there Dev team racing with world famous pros like Ben King and Alex Dowsett. But despite his success and his unbound potential, the obvious next stop was the world tour. But instead, Justin became disillusioned with the elitist aspect of the sport.

He quit the team. He went home. He enrolled in college. For Justin, cycling, it seemed, was over. But it was his younger brother, Corey, also making cycling ways and local races at the time who ultimately lured Justin back into the sport through fixie racing culture. Justin found himself newly energized and also discovering this renewed meaning and purpose on the bike as an athlete who still had races to win, of course, but also as an advocate on a mission to redefine the sport.

Thus was born Legion of Los Angeles, an independent elite cycling team that Justin founded, dedicated to increasing diversity and encouraging inclusion in the industry. It's a badass team of super talented racers, of varying ethnicities and backgrounds who don't necessarily fit the status quo of the current whitewashed cycling program. So this is Justin's story from his experience growing up in Los Angeles to immigrant parents through his blossoming love affair with the bike. It's also a dissection of the cycling industry as a whole and a dialogue about the ways Legian is breaking barriers and setting a new standard when it comes to supporting athletes and promoting exclusivity.

Justin is a guy who is wise beyond his years. He is passion in motion.

And one of my cycling heroes also really the embodiment of persistence. And this, I think, powerful reminder that what is most important about sport isn't winds, it's not podiums or medals. Instead, it's really about this journey towards self actualization and the impact that you leave on others. And it's also about enjoying the shared experience was an honor to sit down with this accomplished athlete and inspiring activists. Oh, and not to bury the lead, but Knox Robinson also popped in to quietly hang in the wings.

So that was very cool anyway. And I've said this is an important and enlightening exchange and I hope you take it as much as I did. And it is with that that I give you Justin Williams. All right, man, Justin, thank you for doing this, I appreciate it. No problem. We had a little bit of a false start the other day. Yeah, no, everything's on Zoom right now. I know. As soon as I assume my bad.

My bad. But I appreciate you making time over the weekend, man.

I've been looking forward to this for a while and or I'll come in a thousand or so, just like I used to live out here. So it's like a nice little blast from the past. Yeah. I went through and like to put it out there. You doing you do a fair amount of riding out this way. I love it as much as I can. Usually there's NASCO and Filles which is like kind of this really cool built into the off season.

I used to suffer through both of those because they're pretty close together and I usually have individuals like Kookie Fanda thing right behind us, so I usually suffer through those. And those kind of are the wake up call to be in. Like you. You should you should probably start training. Right.

How how's training been lately? Like, what's it like doing what you do in this covid era?

Yeah, it's been odd with the fires and everything. Like we you know, it was this kind of stay ready so you don't have to get ready situation in the beginning of the year to the middle of the year and in summer started. And we're like doesn't look like anything's going to happen. So we took a little bit of a break, me and my younger brother. And then it just feels like it's things upon things happening where it's just you don't know what kind of training you should be doing.

Right. And then when the fire started off, we had just like actually started getting into, like, those slow base miles and then. Yeah, and then that kind of kicked us out. We're going to go to like you talked, it didn't happen. And then the fires kind of simmer down. So now I'm just like suffering through these these days of training. It's like I should have started maybe a month ago. Right. Two weeks ago.

There's no races, though. I mean, Tour de France has happened. The euro is going on right now. But are there local like crits and things like that going on right now or.

No, no, ma'am. Like the organizers or the NCAA kind of dropped the ball as far as putting something together, like to kind of there's been this hunger for wanting to do something. And we have a lot of group rides where people are starting to to kind of collect at. But there's been no there's been no racing, no plan of racing, no discussion about racing like nothing. Yeah. At least in California makes it hard to stay exactly.

Motivated for what is right. And what about the rest of the Legion crew, like are you able to keep that together and keep them engaged with everything or.

Yeah, no, it's it's we have a lot of fun. We have like a group chat and kind of the you know, these are like a little small things that we have where, you know, we just try to keep the guys engaged or at least like communicating with each other. We you know, we built the team with the idea of having this family and guys that we really believed in from our past. And we the team was small, started from nothing.

So a lot of people had to buy into the idea because we didn't really have a ton of support. And that's the vibe that we have as a team. So it's pretty easy to like just have conversations about stuff that's happening and cycling ideas that people have. We are able to kind of grant them a voice. Right. And when usually when you're on a team, you do your job and you ride your bike. And that's kind of the gist of it.

But because, you know, we have this kind of open platform where, you know, the guys are more than welcome to give suggestions and voice their opinions and everything, like there's always something happening where guys are like, oh, we should do this, we should think about this. And that's made it that and XLIV to have made it bearable, right? Yeah. We're always we're always getting into something.

Yeah, well, Legion of Los Angeles is super cool. Like, it's very inspirational what you've created, what you've built and kind of what you're lording over right now. And the idea, at least it seems to me, is kind of twofold. Like one is taking a stand for athlete representation in a broken system. We were talking a little bit about that before the podcast. And the second is, you know, being a voice for inclusion and diversity in a sport that is in desperate need of, you know, a pretty strong injection of that right now.

So, I mean, are those the kind of two primary things that you think about?

Yeah, I mean, I think those are two. The most important things were my driving forces, right? Like being an athlete, being in that system of kind of how teams are set up and structured that are obviously weren't working and having friends that have quit the sport because of that understanding the culture that I come from and how people view that and then trying to put it in front of people that come from where I come from in a way that they can digest it and kind of pull inspiration from it and be actually interested in it.

You know what the old version was and what we're trying to do with the team now, it just really clashed, right? You just wasn't. I knew that we had to do things in our own way in our. Own voice in our kind of from our own perspective to to really help diversify, write like representation, an important is important in us standing on top of the podium and being in these races and showing is one thing, but also bringing that culture and showing that culture and showing people that it's not like this this thing that you have to conform to be a part of.

Right. That's also really important when people come into something that they don't see themselves into and they don't and they feel like they have to be something else to be a part of it. You know, a lot of the time no one wants to stick around. Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of what we've seen. Yeah, there's there's I mean, when you talk about culture, there's there's like traditional cycling culture and then there's like culture culture.

Right. And you're right. I feel like you're you're like reimagining where those two worlds meet and and part of like Legian. Extends beyond just being this cycling team and this kind of, you know, a way of of mentoring young riders from diverse backgrounds to get into the sport, but really kind of like this aspirational brand, like I think I read somewhere like this, I want to be like, you know what, supremest to skateboarding. You know, I want to be that for cycling like like like having a really strong sensibility, like fashion, sensibility, culture, sensibility.

And when you see, like, you know, the kit, it's just fucking dope. I mean, it's the best kid, you know. It definitely.

And I know you're into like everything from the typeface and the color schemes and all of that.

And what you've done is like really cool.

Like when you see it, it stands out and it and it means something. And I think that makes people excited about cycling in a new and different way.

But it also has a life kind of almost outside of cycling, just in culture at large.

So and that was that was the whole kind of idea behind it being Legion of Los Angeles and not like some racing team that goes for it, you know what I mean? Some title like that. It was super important for me. I grew up in south central L.A. where there's like and I loved graffiti growing up. I, you know, draw graffiti. And I've always been into typography, always been into fashion. So, again, it's just being true to kind of my vision and understanding of, you know, what I thought could bring more people in.

I think the first step in in making someone feel invited to something is like making it aesthetically pleasing to them. So that's really like we're where I started when we were coming up with the name, the title and everything and kind of just the persona and and look of the team. I think it's gone pretty well. We've been able to I don't know how, but we've been able to definitely kind of maneuver ourself where it's like a whole lot like hoodies, like all the whole thing, you know, not just cycling.

Can you can you even buy, like the the red, white and blue kit that you know, you can't.

Exactly. You can't even get a kit with like that. Looks like the team kit. It's like one of those things where I wanted to keep that like special. Right. So you can't get a lead in kit or bibs right now. You can only get like this support of Kit is what we call it, because, like, there needs to be like to buy an MBA, you can't buy it. MBA Jersey at the players step out on the floor with.

All right. And cycling. To me, my personal opinion is that like every person has access to everything and it creates this mentality where, like, people think that because they're riding the same bike as you, they deserve the same respect as you. But you put in and, you know, 30 hours a week on the bike and another like ten hours a week in a gym. And you're like eating oatmeal for breakfast and, you know, doing all these things to be this professional athlete.

And then you have there's this attitude, this elitist attitude within the sport where everyone kind of feels like, well, I have the same, because you have to say I can buy the same stuff that you worked your whole life. Like now and then. It's yeah, it's just crazy to me. I feel like it just creates this kind of understanding that, like, you're the work that you put in your whole life. I've been riding since I was 13.

I like the work that you put in your whole life. I could just pay for and like there needs to be some kind of a separation from what the pros can get versus like, what's your everyday consumer can get? Yeah, I think that's a lazy old marketing tactic that a lot of brands use. Or they're like, oh, the pros it you can also write it. But I think that's in cycling that's created this world where people kind of just.

Walk around with, like a kind of a big head, because they can do that.

Yeah, I mean, you see people out riding or and the kids of all the teams, you know, I think you can dance away whether somebody is legit.

And that's crazy because I think it's great that you want to represent a team like the same where I represent the Lakers. I was you know, we lost last night. I was in my jersey super mad. I think that's great. But I have a swingman jersey, right? I can't I can't step on to the Staples Stadium and go shoot a shoot a basket. So it's just like there needs to be some kind of it's really good that people want to wear team jerseys and stuff and represent their team that they believe in because that's what Legion is to us.

Right. It's this is this opportunity to create a platform that is similar to a franchise that we've seen in professional sports, like the Lakers, the Cowboys, etc.. This is my town. This is my city. This is my team kind of thing. But at the same time, we have to make sure that there is that separation that these guys that are spending their whole lives trying to get to this level feel special, doing it right.

We got Knocks Robinson over here, who he's got a similar thing with black roses. Right. Like we joked earlier, like I was going to ask him for a black roses singlet. And he's like now and, you know, that's on the crew. You know, you can't just get it, right. Yeah, yeah. No, dude, you're like a total tangent. But like, can we talk about the F like Palis?

Duckett, what is going on? It's so important, man. What is what is up with the you know, it's one of those things where people love or hate it, which I think is perfect. Like people when you make something that is that kind of left field, people should love or hate it. It should be very powerful emotionally on one side or the other. I don't care what people think about the kid. I like the kid, but I don't care what people think about the kid.

It's about what it means for professional cycling to kind of have that collaboration with the brand that's so mainstream and has like such a powerful kind of vibe to it. And for them to interject that, yeah, on the top level, I think that's extremely important for the sport moving forward.

I mean, I'm an old man, so when I see it like my eyes hurt, but I respect like it's a British skateboard streetwear brand.

Right. And the idea that, like, a cycling team would collaborate with that kind of with that kind of company, I think it's cool and it's rougher. Right. Like the same. Yeah. Same same brand or. Yeah, it's like I said, it's it's super important to like these next steps of kind of like creating change and cycling breaking tradition in cycling. It's it is a very important move as a power move from Rothera and education first because they did it on at the Girot.

They should TORIBIONG. Right. You know, whatever. But it's it's crazy to see that happen because I can't recall anything. And I think that it's it's not being hailed as as big of a deal as it actually is, because we've never seen anything like that happen in cycling anyway.

I mean, for better or worse, cycling is so much it's so rooted in tradition, some of which, you know, is super archaic. Yeah. And there's something to be said for some of those traditions, but upending those to modernise it and and like broaden the aperture of the sport to make it appealing for another younger generation.

Yeah, I think at some point cycling is running into a ton of issues as far as like the age group that is consuming it now. Yeah, right. Like at some point you have to move. You have to be willing to to change and evolve to continue the growth of something. And it just feels like sometimes they aren't paying attention at all to, you know, growth and getting a new demographic into it.

Is there any sport more fucked up than cycling?

Not that I know. Not that I personally know of.

You know, I just it just seems like they cannot get out of their own way.

I don't think they want to. Cycling is very much a sport where the people at the top are fine with making what they're making and they have all the controls. So it's like, well, we're going to do it our way because we can we don't like we talked about this earlier, like it's not about everyone winning. It's about us getting what we want and then keeping it that way so that we have full control over, you know, I think in cycling there's this massive fear of losing control.

But, you know, at some point you have to let things go with me and with Legian. Like, I understand Legian is like a small brand right now. It's going to get to a point where I want it to outgrow me. I want it to be like this thing that's that's so big that I have to, like, reach out for help or have to, like, distribute parts of it. We have to break it into different things.

Like, that's really a cool thing, right. Because then that means the reach of it is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah, I think that's super important. I think that's. Lacking in cycling right now. Well, I want to get into the disruption of the sport, but I think, you know, for people that are watching or listening, who are like super rooted in, you know, in what cycling is and isn't, it would be helpful to kind of paint the picture of what professional cycling is all about, like from the insider's perspective, like what is it like when you're on one of these teams, like financially, professionally, when you when you talk about, like the control mechanism, like the the day in the life and, you know, there's a romance around it.

But the reality is, you know, very, very, very different.

I think you realize a lot of shady things happening, a lot of shady things domestically on the U.S. scene. Guys just aren't getting paid. I mean, like you do again, it takes an immense amount of effort to become a professional cyclist. And there's a lot of team managers that are taking their cut of whatever that that partnership money is and building these programs in teams where the guys ride, they keep their mouth shut. They don't ask for anything.

They're lucky to be there. And there's still this mentality, even though it's our team runs it operates as a marketing firm that uses cycling as a platform to market the partners that we are sponsor byroade that we work with. That's really the gist of like every cycling team. Right. But managers keep control over their athletes by this, just suppressing them, making sure that they feel lucky to be there, even though, like when you're getting paid like 12 grand a year as an independent contractor, which is how the contracts are set up.

You're an independent contractor. You work for yourself. We're giving you you're agreeing to do this job for us, for 12 grand men can live off the ground felt while you're getting like pro cycling on ten dollars a day.

Right. Just like the reality of it for most people. Unless you're a superstar.

Yeah, even the superstar. Like there's a few guys that get paid, like real money. But yeah, again, domestically, like that's what you're dealing with if you're even getting paid. And the sad part about that whole thing is that it doesn't have to be like that, like especially right now, cycling is a massive industry. It makes money. But these directors are so used to just asking companies for just enough so that they can pay themselves and run the program so that they can secure that sponsorship.

Right. So it's like if people are asking for less and less and less and less to run their program and only people that are suffering from that is the athletes. Right. At what point are there going to be either the level is going to come down, the sport is not going to grow or is just going to deteriorate to the point where like what is it going to look like to be a pro cyclist or to be a professional bike riding?

It's going to be guys that can afford to do it right, who continuously talk about this, how elitist cycling is or how how hard it is to get into it, because, you know, bikes cost X amount of dollars. But the reality of it is like what the top of the sport looks like just isn't really appealing to anybody because these teams are continuously just asking for enough to so they can get by and they can run the program on a nickel and dime budget when they can actually go, which we've proven.

You can actually go to these sponsors and say this is what we're doing. This is why we're valuable. Here are the numbers and analytics to back it up. Here are the people that we highlight are superstars. Our coaches are Justin's. This is how we work, how we make everything work. You know, this is what we're asking for. And they go, OK, cool, but that's worth it. We can we can we can justify spending that.

Instead, these managers are going, this is how much we need. We need some we need some product. And and that'll that'll be fine. And then once they take their cut out, what's left is like what they try to the products with. And you should be grateful. Right. You get to live the dream.

It's amazing that there's never been like cycling has never been able to get it together to create like an athlete's union, essentially to collectively lobby for everyone's terrified people.

Don't talk about no one talks about anything. No one talks about. You know, if you look at most other sport, you can see what everyone's making. You know, Labrys Networth is, you know, you could see what his salary is from the from the Lakers. Cycling do do don't even want to talk about it. Right. And it's such a mental kind of fuck where, you know, guys that aren't getting paid anything aren't even expecting it.

And they think now that other guys that are asking to get paid are wrong for asking us to get paid, because now they're comparing each other, you know. Comparing themselves to that person and going, well, I'm better than you and I don't get paid. So why should you get right? And it's like, bro, like it's we're all in a bad situation. We should talk. We should stick together and start to, like, demand that we do because teams actively suppress writers being becoming valuable to sponsors.

Well, there's a dysfunction. I think that is that's sort of informed by that like umbrella of omerta that defines cycling. Like we don't talk about these things and we're all in this together and there's this kind of collective silence around these important issues that keeps the sport from moving forward.

I think that stems from a lot of like the European culture and like no great kudos to European cycling. Like, I think what they have is what they have, they grow up in. And it's great. But I think it just doesn't work for American. And the more that we continue to kind of try to emulate that model, the more we're doing a disservice to to kids that are trying to get into the sport and make a living out of doing it.

That does not work here, is not going to work here. Call it entitlement or whatever you want to call it. You know, again, I've I have tens of 20, 10, 20, 30 friends that have quit the sport because there is no there is nothing there for them. At some point, you grow up to an age where you have to take care of your family, you have to pay your bills. And we just don't have the structures that they have in Europe.

In Europe, they have so many men. There's I remember one year I sent one hundred and fifty resumes out because that's how and most of those teams were in Europe, Europe, Asia and NATO. One hundred and fifty teams right here. There's I think there's maybe ten continental teams maybe.

So it's like we just don't have the structure that they have in Europe.

So if we continue to try to like, emulate that model in a way that we are, it's just there is no future.

Yeah, well, we're in a whole new world now. This is the this is the age of the influencer marketing kind of thing. You know, these these technological tools have allowed people like yourself to, you know, basically rewrite some of the rulebooks here.

Cycling is tricky because fundamentally it's a team sport, like it's not, know, cross-country running or marathon running where it's really an individual thing. So it makes a lot of it a little bit harder, I would imagine. But the fact that you were able to kind of create this out of whole cloth and change the rulebook is amazing.

And I would suspect that, you know, people are paying attention and you're going to see people doing something. You know, they're going to be copying that model more and more. Yeah, it's something that I've definitely thought about, like how are we setting the standard for, like what's next in the sport and how sponsors and brands kind of interact with individuals and teams? Cycling is definitely a team sport. I think that there's if you give people the proper tools and knowledge to do what we've done hey, everyone in our team, we go over social media, we go over social media tactics with them.

We show them exactly how we've gotten the following and what it does. It's it's actually pretty simple. It just mostly about consistency and kind of understanding the algorithms and how they change on social media platforms. But we we teach our guys that because the if if we have ten guys on a team and six of them have influence in different spaces, that makes the team more valuable. Now, getting people to understand what their role is on the team like that's where that's just a conversation that you have to have if you think you have you know, cycling is infamous for not wanting to build superstars, but then that puts the team in a space where no one knows who's who's who.

No one knows what's happening.

Right. And then that creates a jealous space or guys can't do their goddamn job because they're so busy looking at it like, well, why does this guy get that? Or why is the guy No. One ask why LeBron is LeBron like he's proving why he's LeBron over and over and over again. And that doesn't mean the rest of the team is invaluable. I mean, just know your role and play the roles that we can all be successful. And so, like, we really tried to create a structure where, like, I raised twenty eighteen on my own, I won I think seventeen or eighteen races.

I mean, anybody ever. And you were winning national championships without a team like Croquette.

And I was like insane. So and taking that and kind of like using that as understanding for a lot of the guys that came to the team. I mean, hey, guys, I'm doing this because I care about you and I want to build the sport, not because I need a team. And that's not. To say that in a way that's like you guys are lucky to be here, that's saying like, hey, man, like I've done this on my own, I'm here trying to help you guys do the same.

And for us to do it as a family together, like, let's make sure we keep that in mind as we're growing and as we're moving in. You know, the guy, the team that we put together, we really structured it in a way. We're like we have guys that can do everything. We have guys that understand their role within the team. And that's how we that's why we won so much without we don't have the best guys in the country.

We have solid guys. Most of our guys are local. Most of our guys are from L.A. So putting together a local team that's able to win on a national level, you know, it's something that comes from creating this structure where everyone knows their role and everyone is understanding of the team's goal.

And within that is they're like, what's the difference in, like, financial incentivisation structure for the athlete? Like, I assume it's different than it would be like on a world, you know, world tour team.

Yeah, I mean, and we're figuring that out. Everything is very new for to like we're we're creating this new structure. But I was like two years old a year and a half, you know what I mean? So we're everyone keeps asking is like, oh, you like, how do we do this and what's next? And I'm like figuring it out as I go. But yeah, it's different. On the world tour, there is a there's a minimum and the way that minimum works, it just depends.

Like the the big secret of being pro tour is that or pro control whatever that some of the riders are hired to staff so they don't make as much more. They have like these double contracts where the UCI minimum will be like sixty thousand or whatever the number is. And then they'll basically say, oh, here's your UCI contract, but then you've got to pay for your bikes, you're paying for your own travel. You're basically doing all of this stuff that's taking away from that what that minimum is.

Right. So for what we're doing now, we're obviously like it's we talk to all our guys and, you know, it's an investment. We'll pay you X amount of dollars. But as we grow and as you help us grow, you you'll also grow. Right. And that's that's the buying because we don't have like, again, we barely had support in our first year. I literally have to go to my sponsors and they're like, what you did last year by yourself, just do that again.

And I was like, no, no, no. Like, I want to start a team and I really want to, like, spread this wealth and kind of show everyone that you can do cycling in a way that's really cool, really fun and really fulfilling. Give me the support to do that and then I'll show you what it's worth. And like that's why going into this year or going into this year and going into next year, you know, we've done really well during the throwing during covid.

I know there are a lot of teams that are like struggling. Yeah, but we've done really well because, you know, having that focus on marketing and kind of showing off the lifestyle and just giving people something to aspire to is just like something to pull inspiration from. That's worked very well for us. But that's always been the motto that we've tried.

It's a it's a better financial investment. I mean, when you look at I mean, the operating budget for like a world a world tour team is like twenty million dollars.

It's like it's like crazy. You got to get the RV and like the whole thing, like it's a major you're running a huge business in order to do that. But ultimately, to your point of a cycling team being, you know, a marketing vehicle for brands, how are you going to get the most bang for your buck on an ROIC level? It's like the storytelling and the inspiration that comes from what it is that you do is much more powerful.

Translate in a more meaningful way to the end consumer who is looking to buy a bike or whatever product it is here that you're sponsored by versus somebody standing on a podium in some race in Belgium, you know, getting kiss on the cheek. And that girl is not even meaningful anymore.

I mean, winning is powerful. Winning is a lot of the reason that we are where we are winning is power, how you use it and how you and how you position yourself to market that and use that influence to kind of create this following is what's important in Europe. They're still doing you know, when I was in Europe, they wanted you to do like seventy five race days or something. Right.

Which is that you're like it's freezing. It's raining. Yeah. Which is miserable, which is a lot.

So you need the winning. But on the same token, like we've, you know, building content around specific event, what we've noticed is that you don't need that many events. You need you need maybe ten events on the year with like a very, really good content creation plan. And usually we're at these races for like four or five days. So like throughout those days, the. Training rides, the community interaction that we do, all of that sort of capturing, all of that can create content for one's right.

So if you have 10 events on the year and you're creating these full content kind of layouts with these plans and understanding what you're trying to capturing, understanding what your vision is and and who you're trying to the audience that you're trying to capture, like you can do that and trying to win races. All right.

How do you balance, you know, running this team, being the manager and all the administrative things that go into that with like the training and the racing?

I've gotten lucky. Honestly, my fitness definitely isn't what it was when when I was just riding in 2018, I literally just trained with my little brother all the time, didn't complain, put in the hours. And then and I was really just being his training partner. I was like, I'm pretty much done. I just want to have a year where I kind of enjoy the things that I love about the sport and like go into different cities and really going to like these nice restaurants and hanging out with friends that I've had doing all that.

And then once I got into. Running the team, it was a lot more work than I thought it was going to be initially because like on my own I was like, oh, I can do this for six other guys. And it just it became a whirlwind. So this year or for twenty twenty one, I actually hired a couple of people to come on and help me with that because, yes, it's almost impossible. Right. You know, doing twenty to twenty five hours of training and then also getting done with that and having to jump on like some calls or being meetings, having to do design work, all of this stuff, even little things like build like the teams information sheet on like Google Docs, like all of that stuff takes so much time that it was catching up to me where I was like, I'm not going to be going to be very good if I have to do like these these nine things.

But when I when I first started, I knew it was going to be a lot of work and I knew it was just going to be a sacrifice. I was like, man, like I've had three extremely good years of racing. I can take a year or two off or like I could take a year or two and be slightly less good with the team, though, with a full team that's built around me, which also makes it easier, hopefully that balances out things a little bit and really focus on building something that that's going to be important to me and impactful for people.

Right.

I heard you talk about how, you know, the fitness part in the whole scheme of like performance is just one piece of this puzzle. And really, at least with respect to racing, like the superpower that you have is being able to kind of read everything. And the it's like a chess match and you have to be, you know, 10 steps ahead of everybody else and kind of know where to position yourself and where to be so that you're in the right place at the right time.

Yeah, and that's kind of like a life skill to write. Like, if you can apply that to how you're building the team or how you're living your life like that seems to be a lot of it is giving me it's giving me this understanding and it's this space to transition kind of that race tactics that I use in race is now applying that to business and kind of the way I operate in my life and just positioning yourself with patience, understanding and the information that you have to get the best result.

And yeah, it's been really kind of interesting to see or to feel really my brain kind of shift because I don't have racing to kind of really using that knowledge and information of tactics and applying that to like other things in my life. Right. It's been kind of right. Kind of fun. Right. So you're like that guy is doing that. But if I'm here and then, yeah, six months from now that I'm going to be over here, I think the biggest misconception about racing that everyone has is that.

You know, it's not like other sports where, like, if you're the strongest, you win or it's not like a lot of other things where if you're the strongest, you win cycling. It seems like everyone gets in to the sport and they go, if I can build the fitness, I can be the best. And it's like the furthest thing from the truth because you're never going to be. We're all human. You're never going to be so much better than someone, especially in Criterion's, where they're like six corners, four corners, eight corners.

We've got to know how to handle your bike. You've got to know how to ride in the peloton so that you're not wasting energy. You got to know kind of how the peloton is reacting to things so that you can know when to be in a position so that you can capitalize. There's all of these things happening. And also you're looking at different individuals and riders and going like, OK, like I know this guy can go from a mile out.

So at a mile I got to make sure that I'm close to him where I can see what he's doing. I know this guy wants to go early or I know this guy wants to go late. So I need you figuring out all of this stuff while understanding the course, knowing and and having to be good at the corners, bouncing off of people at 30 miles an hour. And like all of this stuff is happening is my favorite thing in the world, because it is this moving chess game where, like, if you can master the game, the fitness matters a little bit less.

Yeah, I was watching a video of you and your brother doing kind of like a race recap while watching it, like you ought to go pro and this cret. I was it was so hectic, like my hands were sweating. It's crazy just watching this. Like, it really is a contact sport. And you're so close to these guys bouncing off of them and like going into these corners and pushing just like crazy what's. And for most of the race, like, you're pretty kind of far back and you just figure out, like, how to get right to where you need to be, that's all.

Depending on what the vibe is like, that that all depends on the first I races down into like sections. So like the first ten minutes, I kind of just feel what's happening and how people are reacting. The next twenty minutes you're looking at if the peloton is like awake and if they're attentive or if they're lazy, because if they're lazy, you have to stay forward because you're going to have to follow more. If they're attentive, you can kind of sit back and chill and but like, oh, the race is fast, like nothing's going anywhere.

At the end of the day, most races, most criterions average twenty eight, twenty nine miles an hour. So for riding, if I'm looking down on my computer and I'm seeing twenty eight, twenty nine miles an hour, I know that someone would have to be crazy strong. Plus you would have to have the right group of like six guys up the road for it even to have a chance. So like yeah, you can be kind of chill in that moment and then like the toward the end you just had to start watching the good guys because you're like, OK, like or forty minutes in or forty five minutes in.

Now I know there's ten guys maybe that can actually do something in this moment. Right. And then once that window passes of like oh they had a ten minute window to do something or a fifteen minute window do something. No one's done anything. By that time my team's already kind of gathering at the front and now they're going to control what the field does. So it's like it's pretty much the same cycle. And while we're capable of racing races in different ways, like, you know, I look at the race from the beginning and feel like I feel it out at these different points and kind of know how to react to that.

But having teammates who all know their role and working together as a unit seems so crucial to that success. Right. Are you going to get your lead out? And then I'm looking at you in twenty eighteen, like winning, you know, winning these races without any teammates. Yeah. How does that work.

So I like racing without teammates. You have to be more attentive, but you have the race to your strengths. Like I'm pretty fast. I'm, I can sprint, I'm a sprinter. So what I can do better than anyone else is do eighteen hundred watts for. Yeah. Three seconds for people that don't know that's.

Yeah. I can do a massive effort really quickly and that's how I'll race because if I close a gap super fast because I sprinted across and you're not a sprinter and you're behind me, even if you're on my wheel, the amount of effort that it's going to take for you to stay with me, Cook is going to cook. And if I can do that effort twenty times, thirty times most people there, max wattage is like twelve hundred watts. So I'm running across something that's eighteen hundred watch, which is significantly more.

Even if you're on my will you're going to 110 percent to try to close the gap where maybe it was only eighty percent for me and then you could dial it back and recover and then I can dial it back, get there, recover. And not only that, I've pulled you out of your comfort zone now. So like now you've done an effort that doesn't suit you and you have to try to recover from it, just like takes much more out of people.

So on the opposite side of that, it would be like me riding all day. I like threshold. I'm not not a threshold guy. I'm not a guy that's going to ride this medium effort all day, it's going to kill me and then I'm not going to be able to sprint at the end.

But at the same time, cycling is the only sport where sprinters are in races that go on for hours. There is no weight class. There is no category. It's it's a super weird space. Yeah. Like yeah, because I'm one hundred and eighty pounds, you know, like I'm racing against guys that are 140 pounds. Right. Hundred and thirty pounds. And they go like once the road goes up it's like a very big disadvantage to have to carry that weight up and over climbs.

And it's always something I thought was kind of weird. But, you know, cycling is great because there's different there's different events and different things for everyone, different kind of races for everyone. But yeah, like you have to survive those races as that bigger guy. So that's why you have a team work, because like on a day like that, it's just someone else's day. And we do our best and I'll do my best. I'll put that person into position because I know my role is when we show up to a rotaries, if I get selected for the team, I'm like, oh, my role is to like protect the guy and kind of use my knowledge of racing to just position them.

Right. I can I could be in position ten times out of ten. And if I can do that and have my guy or my climber on my wheel before I get blown off the back, right, then that's the job well done. I can be proud of that. And I can go I can hold my head high if that guy gets a result, because like I did my job in putting him in the right position to to do well on that day.

And it's just that in different situation for different people. Right. We'll be back with Justin in a flash. But first, let's talk about Jaybird, the world's highest quality, most durable audio earbuds for the active, designed by athletes, for athletes. As somebody who has literally spent tens of thousands of solo hours running and cycling over the last, I don't know, 13 odd years, I have tried every confabulation of earphones and earbuds from the cheapest of the most expensive.

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All right, back to the show. Well, let's take it back, ma'am, because you're like back story is kind of amazing, like growing up here and how you got into cycling, the role that your dad played in all of that. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, I mean, I was my partner Belizeans. So Embley, soccer and cycling are the biggest sports. And my dad has always and I like I literally remember he had this Eddy Merckx frame and Corey was a baby and his bike was next to the crib and Kotick like a little toy hammer and chipped his white dude. It was not good for Corey, but it's always been in the family.

He grew up cycling and believes the growth cycle. And he was Braestrup was actually a runner before you got into cycling. And because the glamour of cycling in Belize, you, like, stop running to realize that cycling was a big deal and the least massive, I we go down every year to do this.

Race called Cross Country is Holy Saturday cross-country race. It's on. I think it takes place on Holy Saturday to call it. Yeah, but it's massive.

I mean we go that's the one where you want and your dad finally figured out that you were good at this and you want a piece of land or something. I wonder if he's alive and it's so cool. But the race is one hundred and forty four miles. The whole country is out on the side of the road. This is massive point of pride where infibulation wins, the whole country celebrates. And if you believe in doesn't win, everybody is like super pissed off for like the rest of the weekend.

Dude, it's actually it's crazy how different the vibe is from when someone that is bleeding wins versus how they don't win.

But how different is it? Belizean win? Not very often.

It sounds like Comrades Marathon in South Africa. Yeah. You know, there's a double marathon race every year. Have you have you done comrade's. You've done it twice. Yeah. Like the whole place goes insane for it. Right. And it's like the Super Bowl. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's like it's like that's one hundred and forty four miles. But seriously man there's probably like seventy or eighty prizes out on the road. So like every like mile there's like a gift basket, a cake, a ball.

There's a bowl up for grabs, like there's money, airline tickets, vacations, like every town basically. And most of the companies that are in the country gives a prize. So like do people who are sprinting all day to try to get you to get these prizes. And then by the time you're coming back, there's like thirty dudes left.

I mean, because everyone, like, got is and they're like, yeah, I'm good. I got my two thousand dollar prize, I'm going to go home now. Good. So that's a lot of money and it's actually two grand is a lot of money. That's how much some of the bigger races pay here. So it's this massive event. So. So your dad your dad did that race? My dad did that race four years, man.

I think the best place you got to was like I think like fourth or something. That's pretty good, though. I think it's pretty good. But he's I mean, for the amount of times that he did it, I think you can win once covid.

So when did when did they move to L.A. and why did they move?

I don't know why they move. They moved over in their twenties and they moved over separately and then got together when they when they were here. But, yeah, it was it was is massive on my mom's side of the family, which I didn't know until I got older. Like, there's like, you know, her cousins have won that race maybe like one year. It was like ten years that they did it. And I think they won eight out of the ten years.

But I had no idea, like no one explains this to you when you're a little kid and you're like, oh yeah, I like bikes. That's pretty dope. It's like something where families build legacies around stuff like that. Right. Like and that could be like a military family or a family that goes to the NFL or etc. and I had no idea. So then I started writing one day because my dad it was winter time my dad left his his bike on a trainer.

And I kind of always been interested. I've been like, fascinated because my dad always had pretty bikes and stuff and I really got hooked. One year he raced for this team that had GTS and it was like it was like probably the first Arab bike ever. It was like this badass looking like this great metallic green and like purple paint job. And I like fell in love with it. I was like, I don't want that bike, you know?

So he left his bike on a train and I just saw you riding it one day. And like, you know, after Corey chipped his bike, it was like very known that you don't touch my bike, his bikes. And he's just like, watch me. So I just like I just went for it. And then I rode. And then obviously the seat was too high because I was a kid and I was like twelve or something. Thirteen.

So the seat was too high.

So then he came over here like the second day that I really like put the seat down. He's like, OK, cool, you want to ride with 30 dudes? Man made me ride that trainer for two months before he took me out on the road just like every day.

He wouldn't say anything, he wouldn't be like, yo, get on the bikes, on the train. He wouldn't say anything. I just like went back to the bike and was like, I'm going to ride today, see what he says. And my little by little here I got Mitsuse. He got me, like, all the like the right equipment to to really ride.

He wasn't pushing you.

He was just observing, you know, he actually tried to give me a bike when I was like maybe ten. It was this BIanche. I never forget it. And I brought this back home. It was like this Celeste and like Orange BIanche frame and it was my size and I was like riding it around our yard and we lived next to this alley. So it was maybe like 500 meters long, like 400 meters long. And I was riding it up and down and up and down.

The guys, the sick, I'm doing it. And I remember my mom telling me to let C.J. while my middle brother ride the bike. And then my dad came outside and looked at me. It was like, you're not serious. And he took the bike, dude, he didn't get it from me. Like it was like, now you're not going away from me to take it over me. He like I never saw it again. He's like, you're not serious.

So, like, getting on a train and kind of do it in a while. And I think it was just you're like ten. He's mad at you. You're not serious about the sport you like for the first time. Hundred percent do. You're not serious. You know what? First of all, you talk to your wife. She's the one that told me to be hardcore. Yeah. So then when I started writing the trainer, he was like, all right, cool.

Like, he started giving me, like, slowly but surely giving me stuff. And he's like, all right, you ready to ride? And he swears he didn't. But I would not forget this. He took me on a ride, was like seventy miles and like I was on PCH and like crabbing and shit. And I was like, bro, he didn't tell me to eat. He didn't tell me to drink. He didn't give me any information.

He was just like, just handle it, son. So we got to like guys by design.

Yeah. I think he was trying to figure out, like, I don't know if he was trying to figure out if I really wanted to do it or if I like how tough I was. But it was definitely like a like either you're going to sink or swim because he understood how brutal cycling was. Yeah. He grew up in, you know, the old school of cycling. We're like, you know, I think he said his first the first bike he got, he weld.

He welded the bottom bracket in.

Well, he got someone to well, the bottom bracket in. So he was like, it's not a game. It's not especially for him. He had, like, these brutal kind of experiences with the sport. And like, that's was cool. That was like what the culture was back then. So like he was just like I mean, like, it's got to be tough.

It's like in today's age, it would be the idea would be like, let's make sure he he like has a good experience. So, yeah, he wants to do it more. Right. Yeah. Like trying to flame you out on the first ride. And I mean, I think there's something to be said about. There's not a lot of kids in cycling right now because like it is super hard and either you're going to learn it, either you're going to learn it the easy way or the hard way basically.

And the easy way would be like, yeah, let's make sure you have a good experience. But like do there's days where you're out and you're bonking and you're thirty miles from home and you got to be able to like, man up and ride through that. You can't be like, oh, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm a stop and call a anubha. Like what happens when you're in a race. Yeah. You're not going to do that.

You cannot do that. So yeah, I think that there's something to be said about at the end of the day. You have to be like I I was always taught, if you hit the ground in a race or if you crash, you get up and you finish the race, you figure out what's wrong with your bike. You get back in the race if you can.

Do I see guys all the time right now, which maybe I'm getting old, but I'm super irritated because they'll sit in the middle of the road and I'm like, get off the goddamn course, man. What do you do? Either get up and get back in the race or get off the course and do, like, just sitting there like, oh, scratch my elbow.

And I'm like, we are not what what is happening? So it's just a different world. Not like I was lucky enough to get a little bit of the old school and the new school. So I understand both perspectives. I understand the the marketing and the social media and influencer aspect of kind of the new school.

And I came up before that was I've got to I got to get the best of that old school. Like, there was that like kind of hard like this. Nothing is going to get given to you. I didn't get my first new bike until I was a professional. Right. You know what I mean? Everything I do. I remember having a bike that was like half Campi and half Shimano. And I was like doper's bike ever. Right, because it was like I have worked so hard to get those parts.

And now kids are just like expecting where's my free batteries, tarmac? And I'm like, like, relax, dude. It's not about the it's not about your equipment. You need to not only do you need to earn that, like if you think in your head that the only reason that these guys are winning is because you're on the best equipment, like you're sadly mistaken.

But back on the PCH, when you when you played, I just split. Right. Like he just kept right. Yeah.

He looked at me and he got mad because I had on boxers under my biking shirt because I was uncomfortable because I was a kid and I was like d I didn't understand because I didn't and I want to wear them.

So I had boxer shorts under and he lifted up my leg because I was cramping.

He tried to massage out the crab and he was like, didn't I tell you not to wear boxer shorts? And I was like, No, you didn't tell me anything.

Yeah, that's that's real uncomfortable. I'm not I'm not really I'm not there yet. That and he was like, whatever he is like, just stay here. And I was like, I, I don't know what that means, but. All right, so I'm just sitting on PCH and he left, he's like, road off.

And I was like, I guess he's just trying to get back to his group, the group, because I have been dropped. He just left. He didn't tell me anything. And I didn't understand because I was half dead from being from boxing, from not eating any calories on this like four hour ride. But my aunt came and picked me up and I don't know if this was planned. Right. So we had a phone call. Yeah.

I mean, that goes one or two ways, either, like, I'm never doing this again, like those guys or like I'm going to prove to him that I can I can man up.

I had already had had this I already had this thing in my head where I was going to show him anyway, because, like, I remember asking him, could I race? And he was like, nah, I was like, you should do something else. He was like, you could do modeling. You can do some other stuff. You can. But he's like, stick to football.

You're good at football, stick to football. My mom wasn't down with family, not down with football.

So, yeah, it was it was just like this roller coaster of like, yeah, I was going to prove him wrong. But there was also another thing that kind of sucked me in too, which I think that's also missing. There was these two kids that grew up pretty close to me, Alex Garcia and Nicholson Farakka, and they were state champion. And I think Alex was a national champ there. They're both state champions. But the year that I started racing, Alex won the national title.

But Alex was like, do five foot tall and like 100 hundred pounds. But he was I grew up in a neighborhood like is now.

He grew up in Whittier or something. They both grew up in like the wooded area. But Alex had like, you know, he was a tough kid. Like he didn't have the easiest upbringing either. He's a Mexican kid.

And he was so good and he was so small. And I was like, there's no way in hell. This is like after playing football, after playing basketball, like there's no way in hell this little ass kid is about to be beating me in anything. So I have and this kid is a kid that goes on to be the national champion. So like having that level of injury, it's like that's the guy I picked a fight with. Little as you know, you hitched your train up to a guy who places like that.

I mean, it wasn't long before your winning races. I mean, so you're like thirteen at this point. By seventeen, you're on track. Livestrong seventeen. I went to rock racing. Oh, rock racing. Oh, I signed my first pro contract. So from thirteen to or I guess my first racing year was fourteen. It was racing eight fourteen. But the way it works is that whatever age you turn in the year that you're racing, that's your racing age.

So my birthday's May twenty six. But when I was 13, but because I was turning 14 that year, that was my racing age, so that was my first year of racing was 14 and it was very interesting.

It was very, very interesting. But from 14 to 17, I turned I turned pro for the first time.

Wow. I mean, how long was it before you won your first race? Six months. That's crazy. Yeah, it was awesome because I beat Alex and he was like decked out in his, like, state champion helmet. And it is like he had the o'kelly's that wrap over your head, like futuristic because he had a skin suit on. I didn't even know what a skin suit was. He had a skin Sudan. And he just rode my race man.

And he the race was on a course that I trained on every Tuesday. So I knew, like, pretty much everything about the course. He just raced my race. And that was like a lesson for me because I was like, man, if I go out here and I try to ride this guy's race and destroy me, but if I, like, manipulate the situation into being like, oh, I'm tired, I can't pull through, like, when you want to pull through or like I'm going to rest now because, like, it's going up a hill or something.

I was just sandbagging the whole time and then it came down to a sprint and like, I'm a pretty good sprinter and like I have been working with my dad about on on sprinting on that course on Tuesday, Tuesday night. And I beat him due to he didn't talk to me for like a month. It was the best dude, because this girl is always a girl. This is a girl named Megan. And she like they were like kind of a thing.

But she she's giving me all this attention after that race, dude. He was like on the hill. He was like, I'm going to kill you, dude. And I was it and it was like at that point we were just like locked into this rivalry over this girl. And it was like this ballooned from there. It was like he was again, he went on to win the national championship. So from that moment, it was like, oh, my arch nemesis is the best guy in the country.

So, like, I'm not going to back down. He's not going to back down and just, like, make each other better, make each other so much better.

When does Rixson enter the picture?

I have always been in my life honestly, like I've known him forever. He was always around him and my dad, the black community in cycling is pretty small. So he, him and my dad used to go back and forth when my son was younger and racing in the category 3s.

So they always saw him and it was cool because he didn't look like kind of your typical good dude.

He was just like this dude, that kind of dress, kind of preppy and was like kind of cool. He did. He talked a certain way and he kind of carried himself a certain way. And those three other guys, it was this guy, Elijah, who who still rides. And he actually gave me my first pair of carbon shoes. And it was this guy, Kenny, and those three dudes were I kind of always around. They were like the younger generation of cyclists.

And you're on his team major motion, which is the team that I ultimately went to when I was junior and is a team that I'm bringing back now because the team has kind of gone away and it's known for like bringing up some of the best psychos like Karen Rivera, who's led the world tour for women, was on that Team Canada. Ryan, who's one stages of the tour, California, was on that team. So it's had like this massive pedigree of success.

And I don't know how it went away, but it went away. So I'm bringing that back right. For next year. That's cool.

So, yeah, that was that was early. Do I think that was like from the beginning. Yeah. I mean, and he's he's been he really seemed like a mentor to you. Yeah. He really seems like a really striking charismatic dude. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. And he was like, he's crazy talented. Most people don't know his story. He doesn't tell a story enough. But it sounds amazing. Every one elite nationals when he was like seventeen or something I didn't know, which is like would be like a kid showing up to a race now and beating me, which is not going to happen. But he did that and it was that's that's insane. He was like the favorite for the world championships on the road.

He's won seventeen, eighteen rotaries, national solo, you know what I mean? So he has like this incredible background and no one really knows about because he doesn't tell his story as much as he should. But he started mentoring me like maybe fifteen or sixteen. I remember riding next to him or him coming to get me on his like easy days, taking me out to ride. And he would scream at me if I wasn't, like, touching handlebars with him.

And I'm like, oh, like, what do you offer me, dude? Like, I'm a kid. I don't know what you want me to do. I'm trying. And then you come from football. Yeah, exactly. Set up a lot. And he can he comes from football also. So it was kind of this like which is why it's like criterium racing specifically so perfect for like the the culture that we come up in because criterium racing is like full contact.

Yeah. Like we're literally like we're bouncing off each other just to like hold momentum in corners. So he really started kind of spending more time with me, maybe fourteen. Fifteen, fifteen, sixteen. And then he used to lead me out, he used to lead me out on Thursday nights at Long Beach, this training course, like people wonder why me and my brother are so good at criterium racing. But we've literally done it every Thursday, Tuesday and Thursday for maybe 20 years.

Wow. I mean, and like, that was like just tradition. You get home from school on Thursday, you get some food, you figure out you figure out how much homework you can get done before you take off to Long Beach on Thursday. I think we would be about like 550 get out of school like three thirty or four and five fifty would leave every Thursday, every Thursday. So like, I learned how to do everything on that course.

I know how I learned how to control momentum and learn how to cut corners. Right corners use corners to like gain momentum. I learned how to position myself. I learned how to write breakaways like all of this stuff. Yeah. So like, we're not so great at criterions because, like, we just are naturally talented. The two thousand hours is a ten dollars an hour for twenty years on Thursday, seven thirty. We would be doing this hour long criterium and it was incredible.

Was like Rosen was out there and he used to leave me out like the Mason brothers who are crazy kids. Sergio Hernandez. Toni Cruz is on US Postal. He used to come out every once in a while. He was like Tony Cruz, dude. Like, that's that's crazy. And funny enough, Tony Cruz kind of like mended the relationship between me, Alex and Nico because he gave us all these US Postal skin suits.

And they were like, yes, we're on teams now.

So on Thursday night, we used to use the US Postal skin suits to race together.

And that was OK to do that, even though you weren't on the team. Exactly. Yeah, no, it was it was because it wasn't a race. It was just a training ride. So I and we we're just these like little snot nosed kids that are like pumped that Tony Cruz. Yeah. Which first of all, I don't know how we fit into skin suits, but yeah, he gave us these kids didn't like that. Kind of created this really cool dynamic between us when we were racing every Thursday together.

So we're like we should probably be on the same teams. So then we're on the same team when we were like sixteen. Wow, you're sick.

And when you joined Rock, Rhasaan was on rock. The Arizona team came after that, right? Yeah. We're starting to give him a choice. He was like, dude, you're coming along crazy rock. Just seem like the weirdest dude. Well, yeah, rock guy came in with a lot of money, right? It was all blanked out.

So he used to he used to race racing was kind of, you know, in is Michael Ball. He's a right cool guy. In the beginning, he and actually Michael still still could still talk to him every once in a while.

Cool guy. In the beginning he used to race when he was younger. He got up to like a Category three. So nothing like crazy. But he loved racing and he had a lot of, you know, history. I think his family in racing started a jeans company like a luxury jeans, jeans brand that took off and blew up. And then when he got to a certain point in that he came back to cycling, I guess some body, I think it was like this guy, Holden Maurice, he was friends with Michael Ball.

And he was kind of in fashion or photography and they kind of linked up. And then they started discussing the idea. And I think Holden brought resigning because Wysong was like on basically what is education? First person was on that team, which is another thing. We're like, right, teams disappear. Now it's education first at the time, I think, with TIAA-CREF.

So he brought Rosen in and they basically built this California super team. Right.

And what I remember about that, just like observing from a distance, was it was sort of like if Van Dutch was a cycling team, basically.

Yeah, it was. But but it's almost like in a certain respect. There are aspects of it that provided a template for what you would eventually do because they were doing things like it was all rock and roll, like we're going to break the rules and we're going to be the bad boys of cycling and we're going to do this, do things our way. And some of that worked. And ultimately, it seems like that whole thing flamed out for a bunch of reasons.

But I think that there was a lot of positives to be pulled from that. Cycling rejected is super hard because it wasn't your because when I went to sign my contract for rock racing, there was a model in Michael's office and they were having a conversation. I was just like sitting in because I was like, yo, my meeting is about to be over with this girl. Just sit right here and we'll figure it out. And I remember like what seeing this motorcycle helmet in his office and I connected that motorcycle helmet with like Megan Fox had worn that helmet in the Transformer movies.

And I was like, is that what I think it is kind of the mythos.

Like A you walk through his office and there's like models everywhere. It is clothing everywhere. And like that's what rock racing was like.

There was this there was this understanding that cycling is cooler than people are giving it credit for being the traveling the the the team bus.

You're right. So it was like a party going on. It's crazy.

Like like it was just really crazy. So I think there was a lot of really good things that came out of that. And that really shaped my perception of cycling, which was a good and a bad thing, because like when I went over to Livestrong, what a cyclist was to me was a superstar. And I was like, oh yeah. Like all cyclists are superstar. Everybody on the team got treated like really well. And like we would be going to like these massive parties and stuff like bus.

You would see the bus and the team like all over L.A. we got such like in Mulholland, like in Beverly Hills, like places where you're not expecting to see, yeah, we had these mass we had these escalates like. Yeah, you got to remember that punch of escalators that we had a Lamborghini team follow car.

It was it was incredible, man. So like in my head 70s. Yeah. I'm like, this is what it is to be a professional cyclist. This is crazy. Yes. This is what I signed up for. Jesus. Thank you very much. And then when I went to lose, I was like this fully European. Structure team and I was like, this nuts, right, just like explain to people what that means, like it's sort of like you're in the farm system and you get called up and the live the truck Livestrong like you.

Twenty three team is kind of the ticket to the big leagues. Yeah. Like if you that was like the team at the time you were coming up and a huge opportunity for any young cyclists. Yeah. But then it just becomes a whole different world that you saw on pretty quickly.

All the guys, the guys that I was on team like Alex Dowsett was my team.

He literally just you on one stage yesterday and you won a stage.

So when you read that, like, I know you were like a you know, you are a domestique for Taylor Fenny. Like these are like the superstars of the sport. Like when you see Alex winning a stage of the Giro, do you think, like maybe I could maybe I should have stayed or, you know, like I'm good now. Good now. I'm still friends with most of my teammates. I love those guys. They're incredible. Alex was like the the definition of professionalism.

Like, I think he was probably the most professional guy on the team, which is like I'm so proud and happy that after all these years, he has a bunch of British tied to our national championship, but he hasn't won a big stage like that. Yeah, he won OIF zero a couple of years ago. Right. I think the time is a time trial.

Yeah. Yeah. Tadjo but like it was funny, I was watching his interview and they're like, is this better than one at a time. And he was like way, like way better. And I would agree because the time travel is like it's a time travel when you're in a race and you're battling against one hundred and twenty hundred and forty other dudes and you come out on top like it's just a different vibe because you're in this this moving game.

We're out of time Charles.

Like really structured and reality check like he he's still looking for a team like that.

Like that's how hard it is that a guy like that who just want to stage of the zero. Yeah. Doesn't have a home for next year. Now he will. No, I'm assuming yeah. I'm assuming now he will. But like he has a lot of stuff going on too. Like he does like really him and his wife too. Like really cool. Like just video. They have like really good, they have a really good social media presence.

And like I feel like maybe that's like one of those things where, like people in at the top most likely don't take kindly to that kind of stuff, like, oh, you have your own identity, you have your own thing. Like, it's not really he's he's current British time champion. How could he not have a child? That doesn't even make sense.

And it's job security to have that right. If you have an audience and a following, then you're bringing value, you would think, to that organization.

Yeah, you would think. But yeah, Alex was like the epitome of professionalism. And like there's a couple other guys. I think this guy, Jesse Sergie, needs New Zealand kid. When I got to that team, I think I was twenty or twenty one and he had already had an Olympic, he already had an Olympic silver medal or something, which is crazy. That was that team like Taylor Feeney. Jesse, we had two been kings.

One of the banks is currently on and I think and there's a couple other like really, really good guys.

So I stepped into that team and I was like, well, I kind of fell in between those, like the guys that were being prepped for pro tour. And then there was the guys that were kind of younger and kind of getting in. And I kind of just fell between their in talent and in kind of like understanding of what it was.

But there was such a culture shock going from what rock racing was and what my idea of being a professional athlete was to being on this development team. And not only that, we did our team camp with RadioShack, which was Lance's team at the time. And while we were separate, like being in the same building, same hotel and kind of seeing how they interact, like having bike fittings at the same time as them, it was kind of like this moment where I was like, whoa, this doesn't seem that tight, you know what I mean?

Like, this doesn't this is not what I thought it was.

So it was just because of, like, the energy and the vibe, just because of the energy and vibe of the whole thing.

It was so stiff and so boring and no one with no one felt happy. Lance felt happy because Lance is Lance, but everyone else kind of felt like they were like just there, you know, me and like there like there because they had to be there rather than like they had the best job in the world economy, which is like to me, like traveling the world and racing your bike and getting to go to these amazing coffee shops and fantastic restaurants.

Like I thought that was what it was. I thought that was the life of a cyclist in and kind of it was like this reality check where it wasn't that at all. I mean, it wasn't going to these parties that they were giving away Xbox. Is that it was you know what I mean? It wasn't that I didn't like cobblestones in the room. Yeah. It wasn't like, do we take my private jet to New York one year to do a race?

A private eye never flew private before. I remember being, like, not going to ask me to turn my cell phone off. Fantastic. I'm a text, OK, because I can. That's all my experience on rock racing, wasn't it? Then to go to Livestrong, which was the development team to RadioShack, which looks like this team that was like so boring and so traditional. I just like, you know, I was like, I don't know how.

So how long do you how long were you on that team? A couple of years. A year? I was on the national team one year, which I raced in Europe, and then I was on Livestrong for one year. And I just when I went over to you, I was in Europe for two months and and after that two months, I was just pulled. The plug was over. I was like, man. Like, people must have been like, what are you doing?

Yeah, I think so. I think it's something that the year that I pulled the plug was I pulled the plug and maybe like May. And I think that I should have just gotten through that year in Europe, but I was just so overwhelmed and it was like not there was no life over there and, you know, be growing up in South Central kind of understanding that you live this life of. Of having to be very careful and like not really being able to enjoy being a kid because you're always looking over your shoulder and you're always making sure you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time.

When I got over to Europe and I realized that, like. That life felt worse. You know what I mean, from where I came from then, been living in the hood, I was like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to conform myself to where I feel like I have no voice. I feel like I have no value. I'm not going to live over here and be treated a certain way to say that I'm pro, although there has to be another way.

And nobody in that situation that you can share that perspective with understand where you're coming from.

Hundred percent, like all the kids, like the American kids that were over there with me at the time, wanted to be Europeans so bad, you know. I mean, they wanted to be Belgian or Dutch, right? Oh, I like breaking away, like. Exactly. No, I think that's exactly it. And like, I was so it was hard to it was hard to communicate, like, because the escalates. Yeah. It was hard to communicate with them.

It was hard to understand why they were willing to not say anything or. It was just really hard to understand why it was the way that it was, you know, just like now you know what? There has to be another way. Do you think if you if there had been no rock racing and you came up with a more traditional outfit and then went to Europe would have been different like you got it was all spoiled. No. One hundred percent.

I would probably just like I would maybe I would it be in sport? I think I would have probably when I came back from Europe, you checked into college like. So you didn't you were like that at that time. Did you think you were totally done or.

I was. It just wasn't it wasn't fun. I was having fun. I was like, I'd rather go to college and like. They live the college life of me, and I wanted to, like, hang out with girls and go to parties and stuff, I didn't want to I didn't want to spend my money five hours on my bike exactly worrying about my weight every day now. So I got a motorcycle apartment and a job went to college, but then that was it.

But I was glory that pulled you back. Yeah. Cory, I just started getting he was just starting to get pretty good. So just talking to him again. I was just the second time he saved me, I was like, hey man, hold it.

But before that, like, are you like, listen, man, here's what you're in for.

Cory Superstar. If you know anything about Young, in four years, he was going to do what he wanted to do anyway. I can't I can't tell Corey anything. I can kind of like steer him and then he has to experience it. So he was just going to go for it anyway. And he was like, I was fine. I understand he's kind of a hermit anyway, so he'd probably do well over in Europe because he's like very to himself anyway.

He just he loves his training. I live for racing. I don't care about training. Bike training is something that I have to do. Coria, like, loves his training. He loves looking at his numbers. He loves figuring out how to get better in a way that's very computed or like very structured. And I'm like, I'll put in the hours. I'll do my training to the best of my abilities. And then when we show up to the race, I'll turn it on.

And like that's always been our racing to shape the first like two months of the year. I'm like struggling in races and like trying to find my fitness. But then come, you know, May, June, I typically start flying, which is what I mean, Corey work really well because he's always flying. Right. And then when I come toward the middle of the year, it's kind of a nice break for him because he kind of carries the team in the beginning.

But I couldn't I couldn't tell him like a man. It sucks over there. He's, like, not getting like it's fine. Yeah. Sometimes I get you to come back in. I just want to just kind of help him.

Yeah. I just thought I was going to help him as far as, like, giving them the tools of like training and like just some of the things that I learned as far as. How to build fitness, how to be the best rider on the bike, trying to teach him tactics and understanding of the racing and how you can take advantage of being smart rather than being strong. So I just wanted to, like, basically give him as much knowledge as I could before I, like, kind of pissed out.

Mm hmm. And then year in and year. But when did it click in for you? Like, Oh, I forgot that I enjoy this. Or like this is when race season came around, a great season came around again. And I had been focusing so much on road racing and training the year before the next year when I got to do some of the bigger kritz in the country, that's when I really was like, oh no. Like this is actually sick.

It was like this year of like, no pressure because I was like I just joined like a local team that was going to go out to do some of the national stuff, but not a full season. And I just had so much fun. I wasn't even winning anything. I was just like being competitive and like running into people and like almost crashing, you know.

Yeah, they're fighting about that, like going into it without any expectations other than like I'm just here to have fun and enjoy it and support my brother and allowed you to connect with, like, why it was meaningful to you in the first place.

And then I had to like, go through figuring out that. So I knew I didn't want to be pro in Europe. So then I had to go through this process of figuring out why I didn't want to be pro in America, because, like, it also sucked.

And I was like, damn man. Like, I just like, have fun. And everyone's ruining the fun of this sport.

And I don't understand why I saw glimpses of success and glimpses of like promise as far as like what the sport could be. But people just kept like the like I said, there's this active suppression of like so anyone getting too big or anyone gaining any kind of influence with sponsors. So and it's like this this massive control thing. So I was writing for Teens where I wrote for this team one year where we had I think we have like green helmets.

We had green and blue helmets, that the jersey was like maroon and gunmetal and we had like yellow shoes and then like a white and yellow bike.

And I was like, is a clown outfit like, you know, a clown. I can't wear this. I like, do it.

When you put on your uniform, when you're playing football or basketball, you put on your uniform. There's a point of pride of wearing that uniform. You're like, yes, this is business time, you train and whatever. But when you put your race jersey on, it's like time for business. You're proud of it and you're going out to you're going into battle and you have your, like, armor on. Cygwin isn't like that man. Or has it been like that?

Traditionally you put on this jersey full of sponsors and you're like nothing matches.

That is weird.

But then there also are all these weird, like unwritten rules about like soccer and like, you know, whether the sunglasses go over or under, like all this kind of bullshit that, you know, for people that are getting into cycling, you know, they just they get they get intimidated or ridiculed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people don't know how to, like, express certain that if it's cool to wear your glasses over your helmet strap, then relayed that information in a way that's positive. Right. Relayed that information in the way that that's like, hey man, let me help you out. But instead it's kind of like, oh look at this. Right. Look at this, Ed. Look at this, Fred. Look at this.

Whatever it's like looking for every moment to kind of like down like push someone down rather than kind of helping someone because you have this shared in common interests. So, yeah, it is ridiculous. Like, really, who cares? Like, you know, that's a big deal, though.

If you get all caught up in that phrase, like, listen, when you're like, look, you're putting on, you know, when you're putting on your armaments, you know, to go into battle and the pride that comes with that, you know, first for even the weekend warrior cyclists, there's a little bit of that, too.

I mean, you should be, I think, now more than ever, too, especially with, like, how Arafa kind of came on to the microphone really to, like, done all you need to like you got to care about kind of what you look like and how you accept that shit's so crazy expensive. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Hopefully, you know, once you buy something like that and you you have it for a long time and if you're like, that's why I love how simplistic like a lot of their designs are because they're classy. They're not going to go they're not going out of style. So exactly right. Where you like by Dockett. Yeah. Or like if you buy a jersey with a ton of sponsors on it, not only could those sponsors change from that team, but like what if you don't want to rock those sponsorships anymore?

What if something comes out without that company that you don't agree with anymore? It's like you're not going to want to wear that. And so now you spent like a hundred dollars in this jersey that you don't wear anymore versus. One hundred and fifty spent in Arafa, Jersey, but you can always wear it is always like basically becomes an asset.

Yeah, there's there's the high quality of it and there's the aesthetic of it.

But also they did they worked very hard to create culture around it. Like retail stores are an experience. You go in there and you get a sense for the flavor of the lifestyle.

And it's a lot about lifestyle and community. And like that's what they do. That's like incredible men. Like for me, being able to go into a raw food store and kind of just chat it up with, like, a bunch of like their regular customers. It's like that's so dope. And the fact that you have something like that where you can have a coffee, like when I lived in L.A., I would always and a lot of my ride that and get like a coffee and like these how like avocado toast.

And I'm like, perfect. And I just sit there for like maybe an hour and just, you know, people are constantly coming in and out of that. That's so important for a community where people have this kind of hub where they you never know who you're going to stumble upon when you walk in there. Like Tiedemann Garden was white Jersey in the Tour de France. He's been in there before, Taylor Green. He's been in there before.

The national champion Alex House has been in there like, that's crazy. Imagine being able to go to a basketball court where they give away or where they sell Gatorade, let's say. And LeBron just happens to be on the court one day. You're like. Anybody else is anybody else looking at LeBron James right now? That's the cool thing about cycling and Multisport in general. Like I just know, you know, training in the Santa Monica Mountains, you know, I live like, you know, right in the middle of all of that.

And you can be out, especially in the winter months and you'll see these European teams and they're all staying in the area and it's water.

Yeah, it's like I've seen George Hincapie ride his bike past my house, you know.

Like what? That's crazy.

Or Mark Cavendish or, you know, these guys, you know, it's it's wild that that's the case.

And they're accessible. And you see them on television racing the Tour de France, but they're just dudes there.

And that's like the best part about cycling is that like that's definitely a part of why it's so cool. Is that another thing is not only that is like there's so many different types of people for me coming from South Central, getting into cycling and being introduced to like all of these people from different backgrounds and professional I kind of industries, it opened my mind up to what was possible. And like I think for me, getting more kids of color into the sport where they can just have that understanding and opening of perspective and like having their minds kind of like, you know, you are more than what the statistics say you are.

You know, I grew up in a place where women have the best education system. We didn't have a like a lot of inspiration to be more than, you know, what you saw people being successful in the hood doing, which was like drug dealing or whatever or hustling or whatever. So to get into to get into this sport where there's doctors, there's lawyers, there's people that do things like that. You never even thought were jobs like, you know, like film making a set design and all this other stuff to their own businesses.

And to be able to have access to just those conversations is incredible. Like completely changed, like what I wanted out of life, because no longer was all like, oh, man, my life is pretty limited. Like what I'm going to do, like become a teacher or become like a I the job the job field, when you're growing up in LAUSD feels very limiting and getting into a space where people do all kinds of things kind of changed everything for me.

And I think that even just that putting that in front of some kids mean that could be the difference between them and end up in jail or them ending up with them or the marketing career and working at a brand like specialize in like I think that's that's extremely important outside. Everybody is not going to be a bike racer. Everyone was not going to get it. But that doesn't mean that the industry of cycling isn't rich in opportunity 100 percent.

But they have to be able to see somebody that they can relate to and identify with. Someone has to make it OK. You know, you can be, you know, resourced for, you know, the way in which person mentored you. And you have the ability to do that for all of these young people, because cycling, you know, it's like golf. It's so inaccessible and it's like these bikes are frickin expensive. So you're going to take these kids of the Rafa store.

I mean, it's like you might as well take them to Rodeo Drive or something. Yeah, but at the same.

So I've been trying to attack this issue with the understanding, you know, like we're right now in a transition period where we're going from remembering bikes to district bikes and remembering stuff almost has no value now. So like that entry point is like way less now. And that's what was so cool about the fixin, is that somebody will give you a fixed gear bike. You can get a fix your bike for a couple of hundred bucks. That's a pair of Jordans, right.

Like if you want to do it, it's someone that you like is doing it. You figure out a way to, like, obtain that. Right. So you start when the fix is seeing a massive you know, it was cool for me to kind of step into that world and really kind of be in front of those kids because, like, I would be obviously way better than many. But I do like how are you so good? And be like, oh, I'm so good because I ride road now.

There are a lot of bikes that you can get like the L.A. and there's a lot of aluminum bikes that you can get that are not free, but like definitely like inexpensive.

And if you can buy a second hand dude, you could probably I'm sure you can find a aluminum bike out there for like a couple hundred bucks.

And that's that's the that's the entry point. Yeah. The fixing seems like the a great like onramp for this thing. And that was really the kind of spark that brought you back into like. Yeah, I went through a couple of these team situations and your brother didn't get rehabbed with the team, but it was like then you got into the fixing and that kind of thing.

When I stepped into the fixity scene, there was. Now, there was purpose, right, it was more than like, oh, I got a race and I got to get results and I got to try to win nationals now. It was like, man, like I could, like, help a bunch of people kind of discover this, like, really cool sport and like travel outside of their city and travel outside of their state and kind of open their mind to something else, something different.

So it just became like more fulfilling than when I would show up to fix you events. Like I would see people that I went to school with, like I went to school with someone that reminds me of this guy or like the culture within the fixie scene was just felt more authentic and more real and more down to earth and like less judgmental. And it was just everything I want out of cycling, like I wanted to travel and the racing and the winning and all that stuff.

But I also wanted to kind of have that culture and have those conversations and like have that comfortable home environment. So I really wanted to, like, merge them together. And I was like, how how can I do that? And that's where, like, everything kind of was rekindled for me. And I was like, OK, now I have a purpose. Now I can take everything that I've learned from cycling good and bad, and I can, like, maybe help some people have an understanding of how they can use this to their benefit or just take something from the sport like I had taken from the sport that could be traveling the country, that could be meeting certain people, that could be a different perspective or that could be going trying to go pro.

So I just wanted to share all of that. And race results are only one small piece of that whole thing. Exactly. I think a lot of people get caught up in one or the other, like, yeah, we do a lot of marketing and like social media is important, but like winning is also important. Training is also important.

Giving back is also winning is really the winning is important only for the purpose of, you know, creating aspiration for the people that you're trying to help.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So when I when I first started winning races or my perspective on winning was always that it came with a responsibility. And maybe I think that a lot of that came from Rhasaan because he gave back to me a lot and he spent a lot of time with me that he didn't have to spend. So my mind was, you know, when I start winning and when I get this massive platform and when I'm good enough to influence other people, it's my job to do the best that I can to give back to someone that like I was giving back to basically.

Mm hmm.

Yeah. And then telescoping out and like looking at the world of cycling from ten thousand feet, like there's a lot of work to be done.

And there's one one black Tour de France. Right. That French. Kevin Resine. Yeah. Yeah. Gregory Abuja's French track sprinter. There's a couple of African riders. It's like five guys on. Yeah, there's the kid to a kid named Nicholas. Their identity is really good. There's a couple of, like, incredible guys. But again, if you if you see it from my perspective, they're not really giving the green light to, like, win something, you know what I mean?

Like Daniel, I can't pronounce his last name, but Daniel was a kid that raced for what is the squad now.

He was in a pogo jersey at the Tour de France. And he doesn't have a pro contract anymore because I'm assuming that he asked for a bigger contract. Right. Because he had worn a pocket jersey at the Tour de France, which is a massive deal.

And they probably like, no, wow. Now you take what we give you my word, granting you we're giving you the opportunity to, like, get into that jersey. That was that was us. That was that wasn't you. So he doesn't have a to now. Yeah.

And the organization just really, you know, stumbling over itself to appropriately deal with Black Lives Matter in any kind of reasonable, responsible way.

And they can't because they just aren't they just don't believe in it. They they do disconnect from it and they don't it's not their problem. And that's how they handle it. Like it's not our problem. We don't have that problem.

Did only a little like only what he could do, which was very little in the structure of like being on this team and what he's up against.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's like how do you like beyond like what you're doing with Legian. Like how does that problem get solved for me. I don't I have no intentions on trying to convince anyone of anything, spend like a lot of my career waiting for people to do the right thing and try to like basically show people I have these conversations where I'm like, hey, man, like, these are the reason why either this is wrong or something needs to be done.

I just I just build it myself. I don't want to. Waste any more energy, either they get it or not, and if they get it, then fantastic, but we'll lead by example and we'll lead by continuing to do good things rather than like waiting for someone to do the right thing or trying to convince someone to do the right thing. Like. I'll say this over and over again. European racing is fantastic for Europe and they can have that.

Like I love watching it. I super support it. But what we're doing here in America, I think with criterium races is just underutilized. And I think that there's a space where we can build something that's as influential, if not more influential, as far as like having a diverse kind of landscape and culture. And then from there, we'll just raise the standard. And either they keep up with that standard or they don't. But it's not I don't think it's my job and I don't think it's, you know, and I think that they've had a crazy amount of time to address the situation and they have it.

So I'm not going to continue to beat a dead horse. You know, it's funny. What I've learned is that when you start to kind of move things forward, people all of a sudden understand what was happening. But if you're asking them to do it versus being the example and actually doing it, you get two different results.

Yeah, well, from a from a spectator perspective and like an audience enjoyment, you know, point of view, criterium races are just superior. So, like, what are you going to like for these these tours? Like you go and sit there all day and watch them ride by for ten seconds. Like, I don't understand.

But that's the thing, is that they basically they basically tailgate and that's a part of the culture. I'm sure it's so fun. I'm sure you're in a crime and you're watching.

You can see this whole thing unfolding and you're seeing these guys go by many times a day. And it's there's something electric about it. Yeah.

You're watching the race mutate. You're feeling the energy of the peloton like it's just a different world. It's way more exciting and riveting and kind of like there's crashes happening. But there's also like you're seeing the team or you're seeing everything happen in a way that, like you just it's just harder to understand unless you know everything about cycling, unless you unless you have an unreal understanding of cycling, is hard to watch that on TV. And then you're watching it for four or five hours.

You know what I mean? In America, it's hard to shut down cities to allow a bike race to pass through it. But what you can do is shut down a city block and like, barrier it off, make it feel like and look like a block party, and then watch these dudes ride around that circuit at 30 miles an hour. So it's it's it feels like an event and it and it's an experience. And that's why I think that criterium racing, at least here, is the future.

And they take place in urban areas. Yeah, right. Yeah. You can create visibility for the kind of kids that you're, you know, trying to entice into this world. And, you know, I do think that that's like the way the way forward.

Yeah, it's perfect because we work with a brand. We work with a nonprofit outride, which is like allows us to go into schools and kind of just tell the story of, like, why racing squad car racing is cool, but like, you know, moving into next year after hopefully everything covered coverage starts to kind of clear up and get better. At some point we'll be back in the schools at these big events and being able to invite them out.

So not only do we tell them, like, why cycling is cool and like what our story is and how anything is possible, they can come out to these races and kind of bang on the boards and experience their race and that energy and that vibe. And I think that that has the potential to like a lot of. Yeah.

And you and you being like a strong presence in that in that world and carrying yourself in a certain way where these young people look at you and they're like, I want to be like that. Right. And that's where the aesthetics of the whole thing are super important.

I like the kit is has to be dope and everything. I could be Shozo Torres's man. I'm surprised he hasn't worn a suit to appreciate. Like he shows up to races and he's like full flight, like the same way like Lewis Hamilton was exactly the same way you see NBA players walking into like the arenas or like whatever their fit is like. That's how he shows up to races. That's how I show to races in my eyes.

Not only is that important, but like how when people see you off the bike, that's also important. Like, how are you carrying yourself? Like. You have to look the part, you have to be professional, you have to like people have to want to be you in a way. Right. And they have to they have to imagine themselves like, yeah, man, I could live that life. That sounds that looks dope and like. In cycling, it's like.

Antique culture, it's like people where people carry themselves with like, you know why I'm cool because I don't care. And it's like. Who do who's who respects that I dress up dressed nicely dressed, appropriate care, like have some kind of swag, because at the end of the day, like, that's what's going to I know for me, that's what's going to get people like me into it. Right. Like if some kid sees me wearing like Birkenstocks and like cargo shorts, they're going to be like, nah, nah.

So I don't know what's wrong with you, sir, but that's not it. And like, that's you know, it's as crazy as it sounds. It's super important to. To getting people inspired and wanting to do it. Mm hmm. What's the like when it's all written, the legacy that you want to leave behind with Legian and like your career, like, what's the impact?

The Legion was the first step in kind of learning and feeling about what it's going to take to completely change the sport. And I think by having control of like what teams look like, what events look like, I think having that control and power will allow for me to make sure that cycling turns into this thing that is very cultured. So I hope that what we leave behind as far as a legacy is this space where. People from every walk of life can come into this space and just feel comfortable and have.

An opportunity to not only make a living, but maybe become a superstar and kind of use that and and hopefully create something where they can elevate what we've done and take it to the next level. So I always think about it like this, that the NBA was nothing fifty years ago, like the NBA was terrible 50 years ago. Why can't you build something within cycling that in 50 years is valuable and you have all these opportunities for all of these people?

Yeah, I love that. What is the the message that you want to leave for the young person who is listening to this thinking, go do 70 miles, no food?

Yeah, Tony, where are your boxer shorts on your under your bed?

I think it would be cycling is a freeing thing. Even if you don't want to be pro. It's something that could change your life if you give it a chance and once you start to pay less attention to. Kind of what you have and more attention to kind of putting your head down and putting in a work like persistence is something that has gotten me to where I am. I'm thirty one years old now, being persistent and really believing in something and doing it wholeheartedly and not being afraid to put in the work.

Like once you're doing something that you love doing, you're going to be OK. You're going to be fine. Stop worrying so much about for me. I see a lot of kids that are worrying about training like the Europeans or training like a pro and they're like 17 or like riding the best stuff. Like that's not important. What's important is enjoying the journey that you get to go on in and ending up wherever you're going to end up in the sport.

And hopefully you end up either, you know, in a job in the sport or in as a pro or whatever the case may be, meeting someone that leads to a job opportunity, whatever, enjoy the journey, because building those memories is ultimately was going to shape how you feel and look back at your life and what that means to you. Like that journey is what's important, being proud at the end of the day that you got to whatever travel.

Whatever the case may be focused on the journey, focus on the moment, stop worrying so much about what you think success is, right, what you think, what you think is cool in the moment, just focus on the journey. And every day you get to if you get to ride your bike, enjoy that, because a lot of people don't get to do something as cool as by their bike every day. It's a gift, man. And I would say that other than the conversations that I get to have because of this podcast, the conversations that I've had on the bike with with people are some of the most amazing conversations I've had with anyone, because you're out for hours and you really get to know people.

And that's where the community comes from, that one on one interaction with other people and then.

In addition to that, there is no machine that has been created by man to create suffering like it's hard to be mad is the teacher, you know, like that.

That is your guru. It's hard to be mad that you need to know about life from suffering on a bicycle.

It's incredibly humbling. Yeah, it's and I'm sure you get that in other spaces. But on the bike, it's incredibly humbling when you're three, four hours into a ride and you're just like, it's you, you meet yourself, you meet here and it's you and you.

It's incredible. So, yeah, you're dead on with that.

Right. Thanks, man. It's great to be here. I appreciate it.

It's it's really it's beautiful and inspiring what you build. And if there's anything I can do to be of service to your mission, I hope that you will reach out to me. I just think it's really great. And I just wish you all the best.

I am excited. I think it's just the beginning. But, you know, it's crazy because nothing has been laid out. We're just really learning we're going to make mistakes. But, you know, at the end of the day, we just trying our best to create something that is different and can change the future for some someone, some kids, some someone, somewhere, if we can if we can accomplish that job. Well done. So if you're taking on Justin, what's the best place to connect with you?

Instagram.

Yeah, probably Instagram. Just Williams Jayyousi. Why I amzi instead of us. That's everything that we do. All the events kind of get funneled through there, so.

And are you still you had like a go fund me up for the team. I just got to close that down. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty much it's done his job right. We started off trying to raise fifty thousand dollars. I think we ended up raising like a hundred and twenty thousand dollars, which is fantastic because we get to put that toward a couple of surprise things that are happening. But also junior decamps. We want to make sure that when kids get to you know, it's really important to me to have that relationship with Alex and Nico off of the bike.

And I want to make sure that every time a kid meets up with another kid in the sport, it isn't competition like they can, like, play cornhole together and build those relationships off the bike, because ultimately that's kind of what kept me in the sport, is having that those friendships young when I was younger. Yeah. We get to put that toward that. We get to put that towards some other events. We get to put that toward our junior team.

And like I said, there's a couple of surprise things that we're going to put that money into. So it's been kind of incredible to get that support from the community and understand that, you know, people feel the same way that we feel. Yeah, cool. How's your brother? Yeah, he's all right. Miserable making me trying to make you miserable now. He's good. Your career was going to have a special year this year, man.

I was going to be insane to watch. People have always putting us into boxes. You're your criterium racer. You're a sprinter. I think that was the worst thing that I've ever been told, is that you were a sprinter. I'm not a sprinter. I'm a I'm a person that navigates finishes very well. And the same thing with Corey, like, he's not a sprinter. He's a he's a hundred and forty pounds. Forty five pounds. And, you know, he could do everything.

So they've always had like forty pounds on him by forty pounds.

It's crazy but he's just capable of so much and I think he would have blown people away this year like in road racing, in criterium racing and everything. And like I said, people continuously try to put it in his box. So it would've been like a rude awakening for some people were when he stepped out or he was like left or he was there at the end of, like a hard day or on a climb. So that'll have to wait until next year.

But he's he's he's hungry, man.

So twenty, twenty one twenty, twenty one breakout year. If he thought if he thought last year was impressive in twenty twenty one is going to be crazy. All right, cool. Well I'll come back and talk to me and actually with Knox here I was like I'm sitting here thinking like I want to hear a podcast between the two of you guys.

That's the conversation I had because it was while the cycling was my first cool. And it's awesome. You talk about I mean, I just did the math and I was like, oh, the year he was born, I crash like, this is so crazy. So, yeah, stoked that I got to sit and I'm just like, see what the best of the best is doing right now and just revisit some old memories that's on the journey that I like.

Move to country on the street. Just a small part. It was around the way, right. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah.

Cool, cool, cool. All right. To be continued. Thanks. Peace. Yeah, I do. What do you think? I thought that was a very solid podcast, good one. Next up is a roundtable with Justin and Knox together. I love those guys. I really do want to hear a conversation between the two of them. In the meantime, do me a solid and give Justin a follow on the Sociales at Just WilliamsI. That's Jayyousi William Z on Instagram and Twitter.

Let him know how this one landed for you. Also, be sure to pick up my new book, Voicing Change Shipping Globally. I'll even sign it available only at Roll Dotcom Slash v.C. And if you're looking to dial up your plate, also check out the plant power meal plan or that's where it's at. Thousands of customized plant based recipes at your fingertips with access to nutrition coaches seven days a week, all integrated with grocery delivery and all for just a dollar ninety a week.

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