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Let's start off the night by talking about what's at the heart of the Harris Wall's agenda.

All week, speaker after speaker at the DNC has made their case for Kamala Harris. Kamala and Tim will protect your freedom.

They'll protect your vote, your right to vote. They'll protect your civil rights.

Kamala Harris and House Democrats will fix our broken immigration system and secure the border. Kamala Harris understands that government must work in partnership with the business community.

She'll cap drug costs. She'll go after corporate price gougers. She will safeguard our freedom to vote. She will restore abortion rights nationwide.

She will lead with joy and toughness with that laugh and that look, with compassion and conviction. But if you listen closely to how people talk about her priorities, a lot of it sounds like things that could also apply to President Biden or any Democrat for that matter, which reminds me of what's so unusual about this year and this convention. Harris became the party's nominee less than a month ago without any serious opposition or traditional primary process. And while speakers are listing off things they hope she'll do, it's less clear what her actual legislative priorities will be, and if and how they'll be different than your typical Democrat. So before Harris gives her big speech Thursday and formalizes her ascent to the top of the party, I went on a bit of a side quest to answer the question that's been on my mind all throughout the convention in Chicago. It's Is a Kamala Harris-led Democratic Party substantively different than the Democratic Party of Joe Biden? Or is this all just a change in style? Today, I put that question to three convention speakers to try and find out. From the New York Times, I'm Instead Herndon.

This is the run-up.

Hi, Instead. How are you?

Hi, Senator. Thank you so much for making some time It's been a while.

How are you? Oh, happy to do it. It has been too long. You got to come by and have tea with me or something.

I'm going to take you up on that, actually. Good. Much to talk about. The first person I wanted to hear from was Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a progressive leader and former presidential candidate who ran against Biden and Harris in 2019. I called her as she was in the car, headed over to the United Center on Wednesday. Tonight, Lauren is slated to speak speak on the convention floor and make an economics-focused case for Harris's candidacy. It definitely seems as if this is a jubilant convention, aren't you speaking? What's been your sense of the mood of Democrats right now?

Democrats are fighting with a joyful heart. We're excited because we have a terrific candidate. We know we're the underdogs, but we are ready to get in this fight and give it everything we've got.

I I heard you're speaking on the floor with a specific message of making the economic case for Kamala Harris. I wanted you to sum up that case for us. What is it?

I'll be talking about how she has an established record of fighting hard for working families, and she's the person we can count on to lower costs for our families and to be on their side. That's a pretty sharp contrast with Donald Trump, who's never fought for anybody but himself.

You know, this leads me to a question we've been asking people all week. Are there any substantive ways you think a Harris-led Democratic Party will be different from a Biden-led Democratic Party?

Our party is evolving, and I mean that in a generous way, and it's been going on for a long time now. Now, we've got a Democratic Party whose leadership just looks a whole lot more like America. A Democratic Party with a lot of people who just come from a whole bunch of different backgrounds. This is one of those moments. What I'm seeing right now is a Democratic Party that doesn't just play lip service to, Oh, yes, diversity is a nice thing, but that is really living it because we believe that this is how we build a stronger nation. We see a future that is better than today, and that's worth fighting for.

I hear you making the case that the diversity the Harris represents is something that brings the party together. I was wondering, though, what does you think is the issue or policy impact that that diversity can bring? And when you looked at this economic policy rollout speech that she gave last week, is that something that could have happened under Biden? Do you think that's unique to having Vice President Harris as the candidate?

When vice President Harris talks about price gouging, it's authentic. She didn't glue that on or have a sudden change of heart. Kamala Harris, as attorney general back in California, was fighting price gougers following the California wildfires. During the pandemic, she and I worked together in the Senate to beat back price gouging. As President, she will be both fully committed and effective in lowering costs for working families.

One criticism folks have levied on vice President Harris in the last month has been that she's been light on policy specifics. Of course, you were a presidential candidate who became famous for having a plan for every issue. Is that something that has to change for the Democrats between now and November? Do we need more meat, substance on the I just think that's wrong.

So let me just start with, let's talk about how are you going to lower costs for families? Have you read Donald Trump's proposal for how he's going to lower costs for families? Yeah, long Pause.

I didn't know if that was rhetorical or not.

He said, No, it was not rhetorical because that's the whole point. He's going to wave the magic wand. He has actually said his plan for lowering costs is that he's going to get rid of inflation. Now, it's pretty clear he doesn't know what he's talking about. But the point is, he doesn't even care enough to bring in some advisors who could lay out a reasonable plan for how to lower costs for families. By contrast, look at what Harris said about price gouging. It's not only a very specific idea, it's also one that already has a Senate bill attached to it and a specific roadmap for how to get there.

The one question I wanted to make sure I asked is that you wrote a book a few years ago where you looked back on your campaign. It was one of the few times you spoke to the difficulties of running for President as a woman. And you said that you were, some people seem to be afraid of that idea and how hard it was to run in the shadow of people like Clinton and Martha Sook Yee, Phil Coakley. Michelle Obama spoke to some of those anxieties last night, but I wanted to hear you reflect on them. Do you think something's changed between 2016 or even 2020 and now that allows a different possibility with Harris to break said glass ceiling?

I do think there's been a change. That every time we can roll the ball just a little further forward, it matters. In 2016, Hillary ran, and she didn't make it all the way, but she got out there and she ran and ran a credible campaign. In 2020, no, none of us made it, but we ran. That means over and over and over, people looked at women, different women, and at least tried on the idea that that could be a leader, that That could be our president.

What's changed, though, from why... Why is now not going to be a trying out, but you think it's going to happen? I guess I'm wondering, do you think there has been a shift in electorate that allows the final step to go.

That's what I'm trying to say. Look, you only get the final step when you get the final step. But the point is, trying out over and over bringing It brings us closer every time. We're not in the same position we were in the day after the election in 2020, or the day after the election in 2016, or the day after the election in 2012. Each time, we moved closer to the idea that a woman could be in the oval office. Let me say it another way, too, because I think there's another piece that I want to angle in that I think also changes things. The number of women who serve in the Senate, in the House, who are now governors and state attorneys general, the number of women who are cabinet secretaries and university presidents and leaders throughout our government and educational system. As that number goes up, it forces everyone to see women in leadership roles. No longer does it have to be some specialized particular woman who fits only the narrow woman mold. But it's now women who don't all look like each other, who don't all come from the same set of backgrounds, and who, most of all, don't have to wear the same clothes and don't have to say the same things.

Because we no longer have to be the one woman who might be leader. We can be the people we are who bring talent and ideas and energy of our own to the table, and that the rest of the world can see the value in that.

Last thing I would say, and I know you got to run, is- That's okay. The whiplash of the last month to now is really noticeable. You mentioned the enthusiasm. I think we all know it played out publicly that that's not where the party was, obviously, a month or two ago. From your position, how has this been to watch the party go open, infighting to this sense of unity? How would you describe what the last month has been like?

Exhilarating. Interesting. It's been a moment when Democrats and much of America embraced change change, but not just change for the sake of change. Let me think of the right way to say it. It's a moment when people embraced a vision of an America that can be. Every day, that's gotten stronger. I get it. We're still under dogs. We still don't know if we'll pull it off. But instead, you can smell it in the air. It's It's a different world out there right now.

Thank you so much, Senator. We appreciate your time.

You take care. All right. Bye-bye.

Bye. Lauren's answer stood out to me because of who it's coming from. Back when she ran for President, her whole thing was about policy specifics and having a plan. Now, she's making an argument where that doesn't seem as important. And while she trusts Harris to deliver on issues like inflation, and certainly more than Donald Trump, she also seems to be saying that policy papers aren't everything. Lauren wants a candidate who can finish what she and others started, and the messenger matters just as much as the message. We'll be right back.

Hello, this is Yuande Kamaleffe from New York Times cooking, and I'm sitting on a blanket with Melissa Clarke. And we're having a picnic using recipes that features some of our favorite summer produce. Yuande, what did you bring?

So this is Cucumber Agua Fresca.

It's made with fresh cucumber, ginger, and lime. How did you get it so green?

I kept the cucumber skins on and purée the entire thing.

It's really easy to put together, and it's something you can do in advance. Oh, it is so refreshing. What did you bring, Melissa? Well, strawberries are extra delicious this time of year, so I brought my little strawberry almond cakes. Oh, yummy. I roast the strawberries before I mix them into the batter. It helps condense the berries' juices and stops them from leaking all over and getting the crumb too soft. You get little pockets of concentrated strawberry flavor. That tastes amazing. Oh, thanks. New York Times cooking has so many easy recipes to fit your summer plans. Find them all at nytcooking. Com. I have sticky strawberry juice all over my fingers.

The next person I wanted to talk to in search of any possible differences between a Harris-led Democratic Party and a Biden-led Democratic Party. It's someone who has worked closely with the Biden administration, albeit from the outside. Sean Faine is the President of the United Auto Workers Union, which oversees more than 400,000 workers across the country and is a prominent force in democratic politics. I wanted to ask you, what do you think are the areas that a Kamala Harris-led Democratic Party might be different from a Joe Biden-led Democratic Party? Are there areas that would be different? Are we really talking about a continuation of the same type of Democratic values we saw in the administration the last four years?

Well, I think there's differences, and I think we'll see differences. Kamala is her own person. Even me, as I became President of the UAW, I worked under other leaders, and we somewhat followed their direction, their policies, and whatnot. When I took over the UAW, I wanted a different UAW. I wanted just things I thought we could have done better and obviously things I thought needed to change. I've pushed for that. And look, I believe Kamala, obviously, the Biden-Harris administration has been very good for working-class people. With the Chips Act, with Inflation Reduction Act, factories are being built in the United States. Jobs are being created in the United States. I think a lot of those things, I think she'll carry on. Obviously, she was a big part of all those things, an integral part of it. But I believe America and Americans, working class Americans, really fall in love with her and Tim Walls. I think it's just who they are. You look at Kamala Harris, you look at Governor Walls, and you see... I mean, people see themselves. You can relate to them. She's made, obviously, a couple of different comments on Gaza. We called for a ceasefire in UAW back in November.

Obviously, she understands the humanity issue of this. My conversations I've had with Kamala Harris have been very good, very fruitful. She's been 100% behind anything we came to them with, whether it was help with the rain in a battery industry in, whether it was raising that standard, whether it was helping to revive a community here in Belvedere, Illinois, bringing jobs back to Lordstown, Ohio, people that Trump left behind. I just think, obviously, Joe Biden has been a great president, done great work throughout his presidency. I do believe she's going to carry on a lot of those policies because we say he's the most pro-worker president we've ever had. And I believe Kamala understands that.

You mentioned that Gaza is the one potential area, and you mentioned Biden's specific history. I mean, there was such a long tracker record with him and organized labor. What gives you the confidence that Kamala Harris can continue on that pro-worker vision? Is it your conversations you had with her? Is it the fact that she was in the administration? As you go back to your own union members, what are you telling them is informing your level of confidence? Because she does seem like Biden had a record that That seems a little more extensive, right? Is that fair to say?

Well, I see both. I tell our members, for me, it's easy to talk about this election with our members because I always tell them, This isn't my opinion. This isn't party politics. What we do, just like we did in our big three contract campaign in our Big Three fight, our strike, we put facts out there. The corporations had made a quarter of a trillion dollars in the last decade. Our wages went backwards. 75% of America supported us in that fight, and I believe it for a reason, union or not, and I believe for a reason, because they're all living that same reality. When I talk about this election, I use facts. Again, I tell them it's not my opinion. This isn't party politics. Let's put now Kamala Harris and Donald Trump side by side, and let's look at their body of work over the years. I mean, it's a very telling picture. Donald Trump has spent a lifetime serving himself. You go back to the recession. Donald Trump blamed auto workers for what was wrong with the Big Three, which was a lie. In 2019, when he was President, Factories were closing. Gm's Lordstown assembly plant closed.

Workers were dispersed all over the country. He did nothing. Nobody says he cares for auto workers. Gm workers were on strike for 40 days in 2019. Donald Trump was missing in action. But Kamala Harris was right there on the picket line, standing with those workers in '19, before it was a popular thing to do. She's always talked to us about what needs to happen, where we need to head, what can they do to support us. I think, to me, the biggest difference in looking at both sides of this fight is Kamal Harris has a message of unity, a message we're a diverse nation. And I think that ticket, Kamal Harris and Tim Walsh, it looks like what America is. And I think when people look at that, they see themselves. And they're preaching unity. They're preaching solidarity. They're preaching how America becomes great when we all stand together. And Trump and his side, they preach division.

You've previously said that a third of UAW workers voted for Trump in the last two cycles. As it comes But even as you labeled them as a conman, a scab. I was wondering, do you expect that number to continue this cycle? And what do you think it says that someone who you would label as a scab is still pulling a significant chunk of your workers?

Well, I mean, Trump is a con man. He's a con artist. He's very good at what he does. He's a liar. Virtually everything he says, he talks about being for the auto worker and caring about auto jobs. But when he was President, had a chance to do something about it, he did nothing.

There's a failure of Democrats that some of that has worked with some folks.

Yeah, but what I would get to in talking about our members, I mean, look, there are members that vote a certain way for one reason. I mean, there are members that vote strictly on right to life. There are members that vote strictly on the Second Amendment, and they believe that Democrats are going to take their guns, which it's a farce. Democrats have never said, We're taking all your guns. But that's the ideology the other party puts out there, and people buy into it. There are members that vote strictly on one issue like that, and the odds of flipping people that are very slim. But I've talked to a lot of members since Kamala Harris has come into this equation, and I speak every week at conferences we have, and I go through the comparison of these two side by side and their body of work. I can tell you, I've had a lot of members come up to me and say, I voted for Trump last time. It won't happen again. We go back to 2008, looking at presidential elections. It's always been an average of about 65% or a little more for the Democrat candidate, and it's been 30 to 32% vote Republican.

In the U. W, we don't tell our members who to vote for. We're a Democratic Union. We tell them, You're going to vote for who you want to vote for. But it's our job to look at these things of how they affect working ask people how they affect or how their policies will affect our Union, and give you those tools, whatever decision you make, it's your decision.

Has your pitch to your members become easier with the candidates?

Well, you bet. No, it was easy for me even talking about Biden and Trump. I'll be honest with that because the A lot of the work Biden had delivered on was great for us. But I think there was just a reservation. I mean, a lot of people in this nation. And look, we're all going to get old someday. I love Joe Biden. Joe Biden is a great, great man and the most decent human beings I've ever met in my life. I salute him for putting country before himself, because Donald Trump, people like that, would never put anything before themselves. But obviously, there was some concern there, I think, with some Americans, and some of our members, just that he wasn't to Joe Biden that he was four years prior. We're all going to get there someday. When it comes to Kamala, I just believe that naturally, I think people feel a different energy. They see themselves. They see more themselves in this ticket. I just think more people are going to shift toward this ticket.

One of the people I wanted to ask you about, we talk to voters across the country. Actually, last week, we air to interview with a person we met out in Michigan named Monica. She's from Royal Oak, and she's a UAW member. And she said that she was unsure what she was going to do in the next election, partially because she's worried about her and specifically because of the EV mandates. When we called her back last week, she said she was more interested in Donald Trump, even though she felt that he was divisive, that she felt that he was someone who tore people apart. What is your message to someone like that who understands the unity versus division aspect, but seems to also be thinking that there's something about Republicans in Trump that might have a direct benefit to them and thinks that some democratic policies have made them uncomfortable?

Well, there is no benefit to them with where Trump wants to go. It's a real simple thing for me. You go back to 1970. The UAW, when they opened Black Lake, which is our family education center in Northern Michigan, they opened Black Lake and they had a meeting. The first ever time the United Nations had a meeting with a union, and they had a meeting over environmental issues. And back then, the UAW President Leonard Woodcock was talking about the combustible engine and how it's destroying the environment, how it's poisoning the air. And that's 54 years ago. Not much has changed in those 54 years. The world is going toward a cleaner economy. If global warming is happening, we see it. We see it with the temperature shifts, with the weather extremities. And so when an EV battery mandate was shifting to the US. We're going to embrace that. The way it's going to cost us jobs is if we stick our head in the sand and pretend it's not coming. What I would tell that worker, Monica, in the Royal Oak is, Donald Trump had a chance to protect our jobs, and he did nothing.

In Romeo, Michigan, an engine plant closed. Trump did nothing. In Baltimore, Maryland, a transmission plant closed. Trump did nothing. In Lordstown, Ohio, an assembly plant closed. Trump did nothing. In the last 20 years, 65 plants in the Big Three were closed or spun off. That's what cost us jobs. And those were combustible engine plants. So just because they killed the battery industry, don't mean that things are going to change for us. We have to have leaders that understand that these jobs matter and that union jobs matter, and that that's what's going to help us help save our jobs. And that's what Kamal Harris and Tim Walls understand. Donald Trump doesn't give a damn about our jobs. And so that would be my message to her.

Is there one thing you want to see the next president do in regards to the Garages Organize.

We'd love to see the Pro-Act pass because obviously, the laws in this nation are very stacked in favor of corporate America, thanks to Republican policies. When we go to organize, anywhere, any union goes to organize, 60 million Americans say they would join a union tomorrow if they had the opportunity. When we did polling in Alabama and Tennessee, it was two to one people in favor of the UAW. Why didn't that translate into wins all the time? Because the corporations thumb their nose at the law. They threaten workers, they intimidate workers, they fire workers, and it kills the will for people to want to vote for a union, although they want it. To me, it all goes back to that. We want to see policy change with the Pro-Act, where workers can organize and not have the law broken every time they try to do it so that they can get to justice they deserve on the job.

Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Like Warren, Payne is not talking much about policy distinctions between Biden and Harris. He's more positive about the new enthusiasm Harris has brought than anything else. So after spending time with two national figures who had descended on Chicago the week, I wanted to talk to someone who lives here full-time and is quickly becoming known for his willingness to speak out. On Wednesday evening, at an event for the University of Chicago, Institute of Politics, where I sit on the Board of Advisors, I put this question to Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson, an outspoken progressive who has made a point of pushing the National Party on issues like the war in Gaza. I'm going to ask you a question that I asked a lot of folks of the D&C, including Senator Elizabeth Warren, Sean Fane of the UAW. You mentioned the switch in candidate that has really changed the direction of what we're experiencing here in Chicago. But is it this shift of just style? Or what is the substantive shift, too? What are the ways you think a Kamala Harris-led Democratic Party might be different than the Joe Biden-led Democratic Party? How should we understand the tangible impacts of this change?

Well, first of all, President Joe Biden will be recorded as the most substantial and consequential presidents in the history of this country. He will. I mean, he put forth a vision for this country that strengthened and protected this democracy. I just want to acknowledge the fact that the Inflation Reduction Act, the fact that he is providing resources to remove lead service lines throughout this country, creating jobs, making sure that we are investing in green and blue technology so that we can have a more transformational, sustainable environment. That's real substantive. Here's what people are experiencing. For someone to have the torch passed to them, it has to be already lit. The torch was already lit. We just needed somebody who could run. I love I love you, Joe, but someone who can run just a little bit faster. That's it. Somebody run a little bit faster.

So is that a change? Should we think of what Harris is promising voters as a second term of Joe Biden, or should we think, or is there clues to what different legislative priorities or policy issues might be more prominent in a Harris-led Democratic Party versus a Biden one? Do we know that?

Well, she's put forth some policies already. Her vision to expand, I'm going to say it like since we're in Chicago, Obamacare, as he said last night. Now that it's popular, they don't call it Obamacare anymore. So her work to expand that. Her work, remember, it was President Obama as well as Vice President Joe Biden, who provided assistance for families to purchase homes. Guess how I know that? Because I benefited from it. The home that my family, my wife and I, purchased was a direct result of the Obama Biden administration. Biden We're buried on that work, and Kamala Harris is going to expand that work. That's really what this is about. This is about the expansion as well as the long term sustainability to the solutions that we are putting forward. And we are putting forth strong solutions, so around health care, housing. Think about her work around behavioral health. She's committed to hire more behavioral health workers in our schools across America, 14,000 of them. Well, that's aligned with my work here. I reopen mental mental health clinics that were closed by previous administrations. So her work for mental health, for health care as a whole, for housing and affordability, our environment, the workforce, this is about carrying on the work and doing it with that much more energy and expediency.

There's a tension, it feels like in the air a little bit over at the United Center, where there is a real confidence, enthusiasm, there's an energy. But you also hear folks saying, Don't forget the ghost of 2016. You cannot become complacent and things like that. I wanted you an honest assessment of where you think Democrats are. I know they want to say that they're the underdog, and I know there's an incentive to that. But do you think, how do you feel about where the ticket is, and how do you stop said complacency from setting in?

Well, again, I'm so grateful that we are having a safe and vibrant convention. This is where it really, really kicks off. Look, I'm going to do everything in my power, and I know people in this room and all over the country, we're going to do everything in our power to not just simply make history, because there's a couple of components here. It's not just about electing Vice President Kamala Harris and social studies teacher like myself, Governor Tim Walsh. It's about protecting the Senate and taking back the House, because once we do those two things, we will have the opportunity to also make history when we elect or nominate the first Black Speaker of the House in Hiking Jeffrey's. This is an incredible moment in our nation's history. We have to do what we do well. We tell our story. We knock doors. We phone bank. We take the work that we have done in states that are already secured as blue, and we take that organizing to these other battleground states so that they know that the people of the world are not only watching, but the people of this country, we have what it takes in this party to transform our economy, to make life a little bit better or a lot better for working people in this country.

You made a point to identify as a progressive I've asked Kamal Harris about that. That's something that she actually has stepped away from. For you, what is the value of those type of labels? And how do you see where the Democratic Party is moving ideologically? Do you see a question within the party about shifting it more to the left, too? Is that also important to you?

There are Americans all over this country who receive free breakfast and lunch in our schools across America. That was the Black Panther Party, right? When When we talk about health care as a human right, it was the Black Panther Party that set up health clinics. Chairman Fred, a West Sideer like myself, led these movements across this country. I'm going to say something that might be a little controversial. Progressivism is not an East Coast white person agenda. Black liberation in this country has always been about the progression of this society and building a more perfect union. The descendants of slaves in this country have always called for a progressive, more favorable union to people who help build this country. So if there's any label we should embrace, we should embrace the label of Black liberation that ultimately brings liberation for all. Because we know that rising ties lift all boats, and that rising tide is going to lift our sister, a Black woman of Asian descent, to the White House, Kamala Harris, 2024. Thank you all very much.

Thank you all for your time, and thank you, Bayer Johnson. So in the end, I'm not sure I got an answer to my question. It's not clear exactly how Kamala Harris led Democratic Party would be different than the Joe Biden led Democratic Party, at least when it comes to legislative priorities. Maybe the vice president makes that more clear in her speech tonight, or maybe she doesn't think anything needs to shift in the first place. Or more likely, is that all of this is a potential problem for after the election. Because what's clear already is that the biggest difference between a Biden-led party and a Harris-led party doesn't really have to do much with policy at all, at least right now. It's that the party is more enthusiastic and united than it was a month ago. And for Democrats, if that gives them a better chance to win in November and keep Trump out of the White House, the rest is fine print. The Runup is reported by me, Instead Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Kaitlyn O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alicia Ba E.

T. It was mixed by Sophia Landman and Elissa Moxley, and fact-check by Kaitlyn Love. Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnik, Larissa Anderson, David Haufinger, Maddie Macielo, Mahima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Elizabeth Bristol. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunup@nytimes. Com. Or better yet, record your question using the voice memo app in your phone. That email again is therunup@nytimes. Com. Thanks for listening, you all.